Deep End by Ali Hazelwood

In chapter 49, Torry (she/her) and Kat (she/her) recap Deep End by Ali Hazelwood (8:01). Then get into their Internet Investigation, Wonder Whys, Gripes and Grumbles, Side Character Spotlight, and Sequel Scoop (53:12).

Content Warning: Brief mention of parental abuse and discussion about BDSM during the episode. Take care!

Spoiler Warning: This episode contains spoilers for the book: Deep End.

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• Part of Your World by Abby Jimenez 

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Music by Simon Tebbenham.

Episode Transcript

(00:19):
Welcome to Ready to be Romanced.I'm Tori.
And I'm Kat. And today we're discussing.
Deep end. I am.
So. OK, so Kat and I have been
talking about this book for literally months.
Yeah. Because you're a swimmer.
I am. And I always thought if I ever,

(00:41):
I will never write a romance novel.
I'm not a writer. I'm not actually that creative
in this aspect. I'm creative in other aspects.
Absolutely you are. And I always think I want to do
like an Olympic romance. I think you're genius.
I think you're genius for thinking that.
I'm sure there's ones out there well.
There must be some books. Well, and there is that full

(01:03):
feature ROM com that takes placein the Olympic Village in Korea.
Do you remember I did tell you about this?
You did. You did because we talked about
this, I think on the last episode.
We did, yeah. Yeah, it's so that there's a ROM
com movie about it that's actually filmed with the Olympic
Village. And it's cute as heck, but it
would make a great, great romance.
You know, Olympic Village, all hot people, athletic people.

(01:26):
And I had really high hopes for this book.
When I found out that Ellie Hazelwood was writing a book
about a swimmer, I died. So yeah, we talked about it
before it even came out. Totally.
Because it's like, this is rightup our alley.
I really like Allie Hazelwood. And I really like, I love, like
pool scenes and like changing rooms and like stuff like that.
And college campuses, Yeah. Collegiate stuff, yeah.

(01:48):
Yeah, I like this is perfect forme.
And to be honest, I did like this book.
Will I read it again? Will I recommend it to anybody?
No. But like, I didn't have AII
wasn't ever like having a bad time.
Yeah. Well, and I think it is a good
book, love. We're just like in it.
It is a good book, but she needsto do a Passover and edit it.

(02:10):
It. This has no business being a 14
hour audio book. Like she she's pumping out too
many books like she's published like 6 this year.
So she needs to edit this it because this could have been way
more concise and so engaging, but it just wasn't.
I was like reading out my e-reader.
So I was just like in the place of tap.

(02:31):
Like I was just like tap, tap, tap, tap, tap.
No, no, literally, yeah, I she could cut out like it was I
think 67 chapters or something like that.
Like she could have truly cut out twenty of those.
Yes, and we don't need like 12 fucking 15 fucking swim swim

(02:52):
meets. Like no, I know, I know, I know.
Swim meets are so boring, both in life and.
And yeah, in life and in books like you, like, even she
couldn't jazz it up. No, I know, I know.
That's funny. I get the life as an athlete is
pretty much like you get up early, you train.
Yeah, it is mundane, but that's why I feel like maybe Olympics

(03:16):
would work a little bit better. But.
Well, and how dare she not make the Olympics like the big climax
and culmination of this book. Like they go to the Olympics,
right? Or they make the Olympics and
then they just like don't. It's like 1 sad little chapter.
It's like no, the ending was so bad.
I fucking hate how they got backtogether.

(03:36):
It was so anticlimactic. And then the epilogue pissed me
the fuck off 'cause they weren'teven really together, they were
just texting. And yeah, so like in the
epilogue it. But it does allude that they had
done while at the Olympics together and stuff like that.
And I just was like, this is so like, this could have been so
fun and exciting, but we never like got to see that.

(03:59):
Yeah, that's. Wild.
That's wild. Yeah, I've been thinking a lot
about Allie Hazelwood, just likein terms of her releasing so
many books, because I completelyagree that I just feel like I'm
like love and light to her, liketruly.
But it was kind of 1/2 baked, not even half baked.
But I gotta say, it's like it was just so formulaic, like and

(04:23):
I think that if you read a lot of romance, it's just like so
tiresome of like guy really likes girl, girl can't figure
out why he likes her. Miscommunication.
Someone does something bad, theyboth apologize and get right
together like. Yeah, totally.
Also, like part of the formula is that like he's kind of a

(04:44):
flop. Like she doesn't write good male
characters. I find, I don't know, like he's
hot, but. Yeah, does she write?
I guess she writes good female characters.
But I will say again, not to spoil grapes and Crumbles, but
like I am just so kind of sick of like the trope of the woman
in like the these hetero relationships, the woman not

(05:06):
knowing why the guy likes her. Yeah, when he has done 0 things
to like if he was being, if he was breadcrumbing and he was
kind of ghosting or whatever, ofcourse, yes, you would have
confusing feelings if he liked you.
But, and I guess he does kind ofghost in this book.

(05:29):
But I just feel like every book is like, I don't know why.
Why would you like me? Like I'm so surprised that you
like me and I'm like gross. Get it together.
Yeah, exactly. I know there's a lot of like,
insecure girls kicking around inthe romance novels.
Yeah, 'cause I feel like when hedid have some absences, they got
explained away. So I'm like, he has done nothing

(05:49):
to make you feel like this, So why are you still so wishy
washy? I don't know, hate.
OK, so we're going to be talkingabout deep end.
Spoilers ahead. I, I want to put a brief content
warning that we're going to be talking about parental abuse,
high level, not super detailed or anything like that.
And then some BDSM sex, which isalso something that I want to

(06:12):
talk about just because I was like, am I the most fucked up
depraved like person? Because I was like, I was like,
OK, it's Ali Hazelwood. I know she does smut usually
like she does the sex usually very well and it's really under
delivered. Really under I was like, this is
gonna get spicy. Like finally we have like a
mainstream kink book like from amainstream author, like this is

(06:37):
awesome. And then it was like the most
vanilla kink. It was.
It was. Oh my God.
I was like, I'm a freak. I was like, I kept waiting for
it to escalate and then I just whoever did.
Well, and OK, correct me if I'm wrong, they never actually had
sex at the pool, right? No, they have sex in a chemistry

(07:00):
lab or whatever like the lab andthen at their hoses.
I mean like. In a classroom.
Yeah, because, like at a pool, the possibilities are endless.
Like, she's a tower diver, so there's towers he could, like,
tie her up on all those bars andstuff.
Also, like divers are obsessed with their chamois.
I don't know. She kept mentioning it, You
know, those little towels that are like, kind of quick dry,

(07:21):
you'll see them, like, always grab them at the Olympics and
stuff. And I'm like, Oh my God.
She told he totally could have, like, you know, spanked her with
that. Like there is so many
possibilities and none of it waseven remotely happening.
I was like Oh my God, this is sodisappointing. 100% no, I was
having the same same thoughts and she they when they were
doing their kink list, they keptmentioning like pretty specific

(07:43):
and pretty like intense, I guesskinks and then just like none of
that happened. I was the disappointment under
delivered like have a lot under delivered.
OK, so obviously this book is written by Ali Hazelwood.
It was published February 4th, 2025 and it features Scarlett
van der Meer, a diver for Stanford University.

(08:06):
And we meet her overhearing in an argument between Lucas
Blomquist and his girlfriend Penelope Ross.
So Penelope and Scarlet are on the diving team and then Lucas
is like an Olympic medalist, really, really, really good
swimmer on the swim team. So they kind of are one team at

(08:29):
Stanford and she's worried because it sounds like they're
breaking up and they have been like the golden couple.
They've been. Together forever.
They were like 16 or something. Yeah, this is like shocking to
kind of hear them fight, I guess.
So she steps in and Penn says, well, we've actually broken up.

(08:50):
The reason is because he wants acertain type of sex and I'm not
interested in that, which is like a BDSM relationship.
She's like, I've been with him since I was a teenager, so I
want to date other people. So we've decided to to break up,
but we haven't really told anybody because again, we're
this like kind of power couple on campus.

(09:12):
Did you find that weird? That they broke up because they
were like, sexually. No, that they didn't tell.
Like I just feel like the whole thing basically hinge, not the
whole thing, but a lot of it hinges on the fact that nobody
knows at the school that Lucas and Penn have broken up.
But then also like a lot of people know because they see

(09:34):
them together all the time. But I'm like Lucas just seems
like such a logical and straightforward guy and I feel
like that's his whole fucking personality.
And so I get maybe like easing it or like maybe it was a
stressful time and they didn't want to tell people right away
or whatever. Like I I get like easing into
it, but like they literally lie for like a full academic year

(09:58):
and that just doesn't seem like in his personality.
Well, and it some it felt very unnecessary.
Like it's not like there was anypressure.
Like it's not like they had likesome like merch deal they had,
you know what I mean? Like it was like, why, I guess.
Yeah, they never really explained it.
It was poorly. It was a pretty fleshed out idea
in the book, I think. Yeah, like why?

(10:18):
I just, I guess because he felt like he, he felt a lot of
obligation to pen. But yeah, they just never really
said why. And so then him and Scarlet had
to be super secretive or whatever.
Yeah, and and so did Penn, I guess.
Like she she's like, I wanna date other people.
And it's like, well, and must bepeople off campus because you

(10:42):
can't wouldn't be able to do anything on campus.
Like it just that part like didn't really make sense to me.
No, no. But Scarlett has some like very
specific things going on. She's not really good friends
with everybody, anybody on the diving team because she's like
so set on going to Med school. And she's also recovering from

(11:02):
an injury that she got in her I think freshman year, and she's
now in her third year it. Was a massive injury.
It was like, it was like a potentially like career ending
injury for a diver, yeah. And she is in physical therapy,
but she's still like she's better, but not back to her pre
injury body. And she has this mental block

(11:24):
about doing this specific dive. So she's in counseling and she's
like really trying to deal with it like kind of on her own.
Like she doesn't really talk about it with the non existent
friends she has. She doesn't even really talk
about it with her coach. And she's just kind of trying to
like, right knuckle it. Yeah.
She's real buttoned up. She's very guarded.

(11:45):
I actually found that would kindof like relatable or endearing,
you know, just this like super, super a list type buttoned up
person who has a hard time with friendships.
Like I actually kind of liked her because of it.
And I was just kind of like, oh,I mean, it all plays into like
why she likes these power kind of dynamics and sex and stuff
like that. But yeah, I thought it was

(12:06):
actually it all this book startsoff like actually very good.
Yes, the beginning, the setup isgood, but yeah, it just kind of
like fizzles out. But anyway.
It, it, it really does. She just feels like post injury,
she's struggling with everything.
She was like a obviously a straight A student and stuff
like that, but she's really struggling in English.
She's really struggling in German.

(12:27):
And she just, yeah, has to have control over everything.
She's obviously a perfectionist,which is why she likes
submission because she feels like it's one place, I guess,
that she can completely trust somebody and not be in control,
let go of that control. And so when Penn tells her about

(12:49):
this, she's like, OK, I'll talk to her because Penn seemed like
kind of weirded out by this or like making it kind of trivial.
So Scarlett was like, OK, I likethis, too, but the opposite of
Lucas and kind of tells her a little bit about it.
And she asks her some questions,which I thought was also

(13:11):
interesting because she had a abusive relationship with her
father. Right?
Yeah. And she always was trying to
figure out if that was somethingthat played into why she liked
BDSMI thought that was. Interesting.
Yeah, that whole conversation with them early in the book,
like Penn explaining kind of what it's all about, sort of not

(13:34):
like the logistics, but like her, the pen and a scarlet, they
call her Vandy. I keep getting confused, Vandy
And, you know, the two of them. That was actually a really good
conversation. Like I thought it was a good way
for Ali Hazelwood to explain even when she said kind of like,
you know, I don't even know if Ishould say I'm part of the BDSM
community. Like the word community implies

(13:56):
some exclusionary and inclusionary criteria.
And it's just it was like a really good description of like
what it's like to like enjoy something sexually, but then
also be like, is this who I am as a person?
Not really. Like, I don't know.
It was, it was, I thought it wasa really good conversation.
Also, at one point she says kindof like she likes to be praised,
you know, in the bedroom becauseshe feels like she's just

(14:19):
getting permission to like she'sgetting like approval for just
like being a good person or something, which is a really
abstract way of being like, yeah, I'm like a high performing
anxious person. I don't know.
I just, I thought it was very well done, that early part.
Me too, like this, exactly what you said.
This setup is so good. Like I was like this is laying

(14:40):
the ground for like a really good book, but it just kind of
like lost its way. And again, I think, not that we
know her schedule or anything, but I do think it loops into if
Allie Hazelwood was pumping out less books and just had another
year or whatever to like fine tune, edit down.
And like a better team, she's a better editor, someone to just

(15:00):
be like, girl, this does not concise enough where you're like
lost in the weeds of swimming, which is like, I'm a swimmer.
Like I smelled like chlorine, like from the age of 9 to like
23. Like I am a swimmer.
And it's a kind of a boring sport.
It's like not, you know, it's she needed a better someone to
really like hone into editing and just like not get not get

(15:21):
into all those swim meets and stuff.
Oh my God. Totally, totally.
But she does that with everything, like in terms of
like science and stuff like that.
Like she's always like getting really into the specifics.
And sometimes, 'cause it's usually specifics I don't care
about. I'm not like I'm, I'm in a place
of skim. Later that week or whatever,
they are at a team BBQ at their coach's house and Penn gets

(15:43):
really drunk. She's with Scarlett and she's
gonna get Lucas to drive her home.
And she reveals that they like the same type of sex.
Like, he's a Dom, she's a sub. So she's like, you guys should
have sex. And Scarlett is mortified
because obviously she didn't saythat she could share this
information, right? Yeah, that was not great.

(16:06):
No, not great. And like, we can talk about, we
can talk about Penn's like character flaws later on.
But like this is a this was a teaser for for what's to come.
True, true. And she keeps having these new
interactions with Lucas. So there's one night she's
locked out of the changing room and she calls Penn.

(16:26):
She needs help, but she's on a date, this man named Theo.
So she's like, I'll get Lucas tohelp you.
And he notices her shoulder, andno one's ever noticed her, that
her shoulder like twinges or whatever.
But she's like holding it or whatever.
She's like bracing herself. No one notices that but.
Yeah, I know the dream I love. It the dream of being seen like

(16:48):
it's probably. It's like my, my like micro
genre or something. I'm just like when guys are
like, oh, I didn't know, you know, I'm you're the only one to
notice this like very tiny specific thing.
It's like in Fleabag when the guy notices she like when the
priest notices she's talking to the camera.
I died. I was like.
Or like even when they're at thedinner and he notices that no

(17:10):
one has asked her a question or whatever like.
Yeah. Yeah, like, he also notices
Lucas later on that she's uncomfy with men except for him.
So there's like these specific things that he really can and
when she's hungry and like all of these things.
He's very attuned to her. He's very attuned to her, so

(17:30):
he's like massaging it. It's like kind of a heated
moment. And then they both leave.
But she gets an e-mail from him and the subject line says what
you need message says if you decide to go for it.
Because they they're like kind of reminiscing about Scarlet
spilling the beans. I think it should be me.

(17:51):
And I like, I literally wanted to die.
I guess it's like that was his only form of communication.
But like crazy work. Yeah, yeah, pretty.
There's some cringe here. It's a little cringy, like,
yeah, to like her, like school e-mail or whatever, like.
And then funny enough, because Scarlett is also a biology

(18:15):
Wizard of. Course.
They end up on the same researchteam run by Doctor Olive Smith,
which is a character from I think it's the Love Hypothesis.
Yeah, yeah. I this like did not come
together for me until you told me on the outline.
But like, I guess it's all the same universe.

(18:35):
I also saw online that in check and mate someone mentions Lucas.
Oh, OK, so there is so they're. All connected, Yeah, there's
little sprinkles of them. Yeah, well, and just the way you
know how you can just tell the way someone, an author gives
like a bit too much info. It's all the same universe, her
like sciency world. She loves the sciences, that
girl. She does.

(18:57):
So they are going to be spendinga lot of time together and this
gives them kind of like an excuse to be around each other
without people being suspicious.This is kind of when we start
seeing that, like, Lucas has always actually noticed Vandy
because he like TAD, one of her previous classes, we find out

(19:17):
like he was kind of propositioning, trying to
proposition her for a threesome when he was with Penn.
And he's just like pointing out that there are so many guys on
campus that like, want to ask her out or like want to date
her, want to hook up with her, whatever.
And she like is oblivious to this.
Yeah, totally. In her own like world, not even

(19:39):
noticing. Yeah.
So she writes the MCAT which also was like no fanfare or
anything, which is like insane because people study for like a
year for this exam. Yeah, very, very hard.
And she thinks she does really bad, but she gets dragged to a
party that night with pen but relatable girly.
She goes upstairs to get some some quiet.

(20:01):
Relatable. Yeah, Yeah.
And Lucas finds her like, mentions like that, that they
should have sex. And he's like, you just have to
say the words and we'll do it. But she can't do that.
And she's really thinking about how this would make Penn feel,
so she doesn't say anything. Yeah, she's very considerate of

(20:22):
people who are not that nice to her.
Like none of these people are actually her close friends.
Yeah, I know that's true becauseI was like, who gives a fuck?
At a certain point it's it's an Olympic gold medalist.
Like you should probably have sex with him.
She. Suggested it like also I like
just love this like fake oblivion where she's just like

(20:43):
yeah, I never really noticed like how stunning he is.
I'm like girl you would notice aSwedish like world record holder
hanging out the pool deck. Like obviously everyone notices
this. Man and if you are a fucking
studious bitch you would know who your TA is.
For a biology class last year like that was insane.

(21:04):
I was like, you're probably at every TA office hour.
Yeah, Oh yeah, She's major. Overachiever.
Major wants to super motivated against medical school.
And that she's oblivious to guyslike, like, you know, that's
another trope that like, fuckinghate.
I know. Yeah, totally.
This way He also points out thatshe's touch starved.

(21:25):
What did you think of that? I would have actually killed
myself like. I feel like you should do like,
video podcast just so people cansee your cringe face.
You're just like, yuck. Yeah.
Yeah, it was yeah. Touch Starved is a disgusting
turf. It's so embarrassing and I know
that he was trying to be like, oh, it's not embarrassing, this

(21:47):
happens to everyone or whatever,but the way that he said.
It the way he said it, I know. I was like, I'll jump out a
window. I know I get that.
Like writing these scenes, theseauthors have to be like pretty
vulnerable or something. They have to try stuff because
and some things work. Like there, there are some
scenes in this where even just when he's like, you know,

(22:08):
staring at her or that scene where he like is holding her
ankle or whatever. Like the way it's described, you
can tell like it actually was pretty hot.
But and then something will justswitch and you're like, that's
not bad anymore. Like you can get the egg real
quick on these. And, and yeah, Touchstarp is a
pretty icky thing. It was so.
Because it's like it, I felt like he was like, you're like a

(22:32):
loser virgin. And that was the implication.
And I know that he was saying that that wasn't the case, but I
was like, I would actually jump out.
He was upstairs. I would jump onto the bedroom
and hope that I died, truly. Oh my God.

(22:52):
But then she ends up at green, she replies to his e-mail and
then the next day at practice hegives her a kink list and tells
her to go get STI tested and to fill out her form.
I thought this was really funny when she was like well I want to
see yours and he's like but thenyou wouldn't answer honestly.
Yeah, that'll be skewed, especially because she's the

(23:13):
sub. Yeah, totally.
Yeah, yeah. I thought that was really
interesting. That is interesting.
Do you think that's common practice?
I have no idea, truthfully. I mean, I've never, I've never
come across it in in life. We're in the books.
But yeah, I mean, it was OK. I I, I was expecting to be more
grossed out by it. But there were definitely some

(23:34):
green flags with Lucas here. Like he was even when Penn was
talking about how they tried some things and then the second
she said he's not into it, he stopped trying.
Like, you know, there was some very clear, respectful things at
play here, and the list was OK. I thought I'd be grossed out by
it, but ultimately it was kind of a cute tool of this plot or

(23:55):
something like that. Totally.
I've seen it in a lot of like, yeah, like 50 Shades.
I think they do like kind of a can't list or.
Yeah. That's that's for the best.
Like, yeah, to be honest. But yeah, he is respectful.
Like he, yeah, he never put tried to push this on her.
He never dumped her because of it.
Like, yeah, yeah. Then they exchange lists in a

(24:16):
library study room. And what do you know, they
perfectly align with each other.Everything that he wants,
they're a match. Yeah, they're a.
Match rate in heaven and then hekisses her and this is really
really heats up this is again I was like this is like gonna be
good and then it. Just I know you're hopeful.
You're still hopeful at this point?
I was like, stoked. I remember I was listening to

(24:37):
it, like, on a hike, and I was like, like, the whole time I was
like, Oh my God. Like, OK, like, let's go.
And then it just, like, went so bad.
But they bump into each other attheir lab for their research
project, and Lucas tells Scarlett to go down on him.
And it's like this thing where it's like, he's not gonna
reciprocate. He denies her Orgasmine.

(24:58):
And then, yeah, it's very praiseheavy.
It's very praise heavy, yeah. Very like I'm in control and
she's getting used. And then they walk back to his
house and they bump into the roommate, have a full
conversation with him and then they go upstairs and have sex

(25:19):
and he's like upset. Like he was like, that was the
best thing I've ever had. Like that's the best thing.
That's a. Friend because he's been with
Penn since he was 16. And just like, I actually kind
of like, how did he even know? I don't know, Like it's kind of
interesting. What did you think about that?
Like, cause yeah, it's like, I guess that this would be kind of
his first time doing this. Yeah.

(25:42):
I felt like there was never a time.
And this is what I think would be the reality but wouldn't ever
be written out of a book. But like, in these scenes and
stuff like that, scenes, like BDSM scenes, I feel like if this
is the first time he's like, really giving this a go, I think
there'd be times where they would like, pause and be like, I

(26:03):
don't know what I'm doing. Like, do you know what I'm
saying? Like, I just feel like there'd
be times where it's like, is this OK?
Like, really? Yeah.
Or just like, I can't believe we're doing this.
Yeah, there would be like, yeah,it's not super realistic.
I mean, there would be obviouslylike, yeah, there would be like
more, I guess, not awkwardness, but just like, giddy.
Like, yeah, there'd be somethingother than just straight up hot,

(26:28):
perfectly aligned BDSM. Perfect, John said.
No stutter? No.
Yeah, repeat. Like repeat.
Yes, like or no, Like trying something and then being like,
yeah, like I didn't like that asmuch as I thought I would.
And then he doesn't talk to her for 10 days.
This actually pissed me the fuckoff because.

(26:51):
I know. He's such a good guy and I don't
understand like I know it's we we learn from his brother that
is there visiting that he has always denied himself of stuff
like he I guess feels like he doesn't like deserve stuff.
So he would like take cold showers, not sleep on the bed,
not seize any of his food, like do all this stuff he.

(27:12):
Like tortured himself with like withholding comfort basically
and good things, which is like kind of intimate for your
brother to know. I don't know.
It was that was kind of weird and it was kind of.
Weird now that I'm thinking about it.
And also it's like we never discussed that.
No, that's deep. That's like a fucking issue.
Like I know, I know. I guess it's like implied that

(27:33):
like when he tells her that his mom died, that resolved it.
I. Don't know.
Yeah. There's a lot of you have to
draw your own conclusions in this book, but.
Because I'd be like, get therapy, yeah.
Like yesterday. Yeah.
Yeah. It's just disrespectful to be
like, I deny myself good things,so that's why I didn't text you.
I'll be like, fuck you, bro. That's so painful.

(27:57):
I do this thing that we both seem to like, really enjoy and
officially like they both kind of are doing it for the first
time. So it's it requires a little bit
of like being respectful and, you know, the aftercare of
things or whatever. And it's it's just totally,
yeah, I don't know. That was yucky and like.
That a lot, yeah. Like aftercare extends past the
hour after you have sex. Yeah, for sure.

(28:20):
And yeah, this requires so much communication and so much trust
that it's like fucking bonkers that he doesn't talk to her for
10 days. Yeah, that was a misstep on his
part, big time. Huge misstep.
Because also in real life, I feel like what would happen is
she would be like, fuck you, never talk to me again.
Yeah. Or at least she should have, but
obviously that doesn't happen. So yeah, she figures that out

(28:42):
from the brother that's visiting, and they're just like
having a good time outside of the bedroom.
And yeah, they've have sex againafter like a party where this
other guy was hitting on her. Yeah, he got all jealous.
Possessive. Yeah, Total.
Maybe. I can't.
Why is everyone obsessed with this check like like.

(29:04):
She has no idea. Yeah, she's just oblivious.
But the next day, 'cause they, like, are having a cute
breakfast moment. And the next day, Penn's car
battery dies. And she calls Lucas.
And then Lucas, like, drops everything to go help her.
And she's like, oh, like, I wonder if they're still, like,
seeing each other. And maybe is this a temporary
break? Like, we don't know.

(29:26):
So she's feeling a little bit down from that.
Lucas checks on her after she fakes an illness after seeing
one of her old coaches. Right.
And she has like a full fucking mental breakdown.
She tells Lucas for like I thinkthe first person she's ever told
that her ex-boyfriend of three years on the day that she

(29:49):
injured herself of a day of a competition, he broke up with
her as well as her dad contacting her via e-mail even
though they are no contact breaking all obviously these
court orders. So he's like, yeah, obviously
this was extremely shitty. And like, no wonder you have so

(30:10):
much trauma around this incident.
Like not only are you like didn't know if you would be able
to dive again, but you had two people break your trust.
Yeah, well, and how wild that this would be the first time she
said this. But yeah, she's like actively in
therapy for this. No, literally, but I literally

(30:31):
this is garbage. I don't think she tells her.
Yeah, people are Yeah. It's wild.
She that therapy thing too. I mean, it's I guess it's a
gripe and grumble, but the therapist being like, I do
cognitive behavioral therapy, like I'm just like, Oh my God,
snooze. No offense to people out there
who do cognitive behavioral therapy, but it's like not
really cutting edge here. Like this girl needs help.

(30:55):
She's a trauma survivor and she's she, she's got the yips
bad for her sport that she's an Olympian and like there would
just be way more supports for her anyway.
It was just not realistic. So yeah, he, she discloses this
to him for the very first time, which was very hard to believe.
But obviously they're they're trauma bonding, they're being
more vulnerable, they're connecting.
And yeah, he tells her about hismom passing away and how he was

(31:18):
so upset because he was away at a swim meet when this happened.
And I felt like also she like, didn't really.
She was like, aw, I felt. Yeah, she wasn't really.
Supportive. She hasn't ripped into these
people. I liked this book.
I just want to say that. I love her.

(31:38):
We both say we liked it, but ultimately we were like
destroying it. Yeah.
It was just, it just lacked a little bit of, I don't know, it
just lacked a little bit of likeauthenticity or something.
Totally. He tells her this because
basically he's say cuz she's like you're a perfect athlete
cuz he's like literally the bestin the world.
And he's like, well, when my momdied, I was, like, adding time,

(32:03):
and I wanted to stop swimming. And she was like, I think I have
a breakthrough. I wanna go try it.
So they head to the pool at 1:30AM, and she does an inward dive.
Yeah. And then he forces her to open
her MCAT results. And what do you know?
She got one point higher than him.
It's funny. I do like that he always tells

(32:26):
her how much smarter she is thanhim.
Yeah, and this scene felt very like cinematic.
It felt like it'd be a good movie scene of them going to the
pool in the middle of the night.Her finally doing it like it
there was like. But like, fuck in the pool.
Seriously and also your breakthrough is sharing just
like a basic Astro. Like why can't your breakthrough

(32:50):
should be having sex with him ina really awesome way don't you
think? I thought that was the whole
point is that they were working other issues by being Dom subbed
for the very first time in theirlife, but no.
Totally, it's so vague. I think they do end up having
sex in the change room, but that's beside the point.
Change room is oh, I kind of forgot about that.

(33:11):
That's so. It's so not the pool.
Yeah, it's so not the pool. And this is also weird because
she is still asking him. She literally verbatim asks him
are you still sleeping with pen?And he's like again, like I
don't understand how like much clearer.
I guess ghosting her for 10 daysmaybe doesn't.
Seem confused her a bit, yeah. Yeah, but like he's like, I

(33:35):
don't know how like much clearerI can be that like I'm obsessed
with this. Mm.
Hmm. This is really working for him.
Yeah, he's like, I will always be friends with her.
I will basically always drop everything because she did so
much for me after my mom passed.And I, I like, I feel like
that's fair. Like I hate like if you are in a

(33:57):
really long term relationship, obviously there's a lot of
reasons to cut ties. But like sometimes it's like,
like I really related to when she was like, we were best
friends and like codependent andso intertwined that we kept
dating for much longer than we needed to.
We are more friends than romantic partners.
And I felt like that was really relatable.

(34:18):
But it's like, I liked that theywere still friends, like, right,
Because it does suck if you are friends with someone like in
this case, seven years, and thenyou just like lose a friend.
Like that's sad. And they are still like around
each other a lot. I this whole like Stanford
Aquatics are somehow joined. I don't think that is a thing.

(34:41):
But for this book, it's like they still have to see each
other day in, day out. Like, they may as well like kind
of protect this like friendship that they have.
Totally. And then this is another thing
about the book that just was always so confusing and took up
so much time. But basically what happens is
like one of the divers on their team, it's a team of five, gets

(35:02):
injured. So then Scarlett has to be
paired up with Pen to do synchrodiving and they suck together.
But there was like so many timeswhere like someone got injured
and someone like. There was a lot of cutting from
the team. The swim team also lost like 5
people. I was just like a too much in
the weeds on the actual sports. We don't need that.

(35:23):
Get back to the We just need, yeah, we just need to be like
training a bunch and making it to the Olympics and then being
at the Olympic. Yeah.
All we really don't do that, yeah.
They don't see each other for a month because Lucas is swimming
in Europe and her and Penn during this time are getting a
lot closer. They obviously Lucas and her are

(35:44):
like texting and everything. They go to the USA Diving
tournament and there's a diver that they know at another school
and she's like, hey scrub, let'sgo out for dinner.
Hey, by the way, Penelope is like a conniving bitch.
Yeah. And we used to take time.
We used to dive together. And like, she, I don't think,

(36:05):
does she? I don't think she actually ends
up saying anything. It's when it's when Scarlett
tells Penelope that this happened, that she's like, well,
she has a grudge because I reported her mom for running a
dangerous diving institute. Which like, I don't know enough
about diving, but I'm like, whatis happening here?

(36:25):
Were they just like injecting people with like cortisol or
something? Like what was happening?
Don't know. I was weird.
But Penn's our villain now. She's really not to be trusted,
which I kind of saw it coming. I don't know that Penn was
trouble. I spoiled myself unfortunately,
because I think I told you this,but like I tried to read this
book like several, like I tried to finish this book several time

(36:48):
and by by the end I had just I had spoiled myself on the
Internet before I actually got to finish it.
So I feel like though, because I'm dumb, I actually wouldn't
have picked up on this. I was like, Joyce is like shady
like. Right, right.
Yeah. Do you think that Penn and Lucas

(37:09):
being so, so fucking not jealousof each other, do you think that
that was reasonable? No, I mean, I'm, I'm not, I'm a,
I'm a like I'm being vulnerable here, but like I'm pretty toxic.
I cannot, I cannot be friends with my exes.

(37:34):
I'm really like I'm a Scorpio. I like absolutely burn things to
the ground when I'm done with them.
I so. Everything I just said you're.
Like no. I think that's so fair.
I remember when my ex started dating someone, it's like I
didn't I want to get back together with him by like 1
serious ex. I was like I don't want to get

(37:54):
back together with you. I've known this for years.
Like literally like wow yeah do not care.
And I was still so jealous. So jealous.
Oh yeah. Oh, yeah, me too.
Me too. You could say they're like being
very mature, but I think they'reactually being like completely
unrealistically cold, like to each other or something.
Yeah, I just felt I was like, I just could never, never do that.

(38:17):
Even though she knew in her heart that she didn't want to
date him anymore and was dating other people.
And also like they, they took their sexual incompatibility as
like, I don't know, it almost felt like one of them was on
like a real journey. I don't know, it was
interesting. It was like one of them.
It reminds me, I've read a lot of like queer ROM coms and it's

(38:39):
almost like one of them was going through something like
profoundly so personal that theycouldn't be together.
I don't know, it was weird. It's like the whole sexual them
not being compatible was like not enough to be like, now we're
cold to each other. Could be just like, no, we
aren't right for each other. Does that make sense?
100%. It's not like one of them had to
like, discover something on their own.
It was just really, yeah, their relationship was problematic for

(39:02):
me, but. Totally.
No, I totally agree. It wasn't like this huge shift
or anything. It was just, it seems like it
fizzled out, yeah. Totally, Yeah.
So if they end up going to Amsterdam for Worlds, yeah,
Scarlett goes because a bunch ofpeople get injuries and they're

(39:24):
staying at a hotel. They're like having sex all the
time, being tourists together, like really fun.
Then they bump into an Australian diver or swimmer or
whatever. He insinuates that he knows Penn
really well. And she's like, I don't get it.
Like if, if he like insinuates that he has like kind of slept

(39:48):
with her, How? How did that happen?
Because you guys got together when you were sixteen.
Were you ever like in an open relationship or anything like
that? A threesome does not cross this
bitch's mind. She is so confused.
And then he explains, Oh no, we had sex with other people.
Girls and guys she was. She could not comprehend that

(40:10):
that was something that was happening.
She was blown away. It rocked her world.
It rocked her world. I was like you.
BDSM. Our BDSM Queen Yeah is.
Shirley. Shook by this and yeah then it
didn't make sense to me either because then it's like Penn was
so shook by the BDSM stuff. I know, but I was like you are
having multi part yeah, multi partner sex like I don't why are

(40:33):
you guys so I don't know. I just not that you have to be
interested in both. Like it can honestly be one or
another, but I was just like, why are you guys acting like
fucking prudes or like yeah. I actually, that's funny, I
actually interpreted it as Scarlett was actually more shook
because she didn't know that about Penn and Penn had been,

(40:55):
they've been getting closer and Penn had been like all up in her
business. Obviously, like she, like
Scarlett shared so much about what she's into.
It just was like, I think she was more shocked because it
really highlighted that her and Penn are actually not that close
'cause she should have told her.Oh, that's a good point.
OK, I like that interpretation. I also just like, and I know
that this is toxic and problematic and stuff like that,

(41:18):
but like when I heard this and Iwas like, OK, so Penn was
initiating these threesomes. It wasn't Lucas.
She didn't like their sex life and wanted to date other people.
Having, I think having threesomes in a relationship
when you want out and want to date other people, I think that

(41:42):
is like, I could just never. This is why I this is just not
for me because I just cause that's what I'd be afraid of is
that my partner wants to see other people and hates our sex
life Hates. Our sex life, Yeah.
It's just their way of, like, working out without saying it.
Like working a way out. Finding a path out without
saying it was, like, so embarrassing.

(42:03):
Literally, yeah. Literally I was like, that's
crazy. I would just have to be so
secure and I've never felt neverbeen not secure I guess.
I guess so, eh? Damn things to hope for.
Yeah, no. Truly to hope for and he says
that actually he wanted to sleepwith Scarlett, but Penn knew

(42:25):
that Lucas like had a crush on Scarlett back in the day and
like wouldn't like would not do that because she knew in her
head. That's again why I'm like,
you're like, not I feel like offYou're not having threesomes for
the right reasons. You're not hashtag here for the
right threesomes. Like, no, it's true.

(42:47):
Yeah, not having threesomes for the right reasons is true.
They start having deeper conversations.
She's like, I want to go to Med school with you.
And she is like, she's starting to be like, I'm in love with
this guy. We're starting to talk about
plans for the future. This is way more than just
having sex. Yeah.
Yeah, this is where it takes a turn and it's like we're in

(43:08):
love. And then we get back to
California and we find out that Theo, this is kind of where all
all the shit hits the fam. Theo breaks up with Penn and
then Penn gets accused of doping.
Right. When this happens, and I don't
know if you remember this because I know that you read it

(43:29):
a few months ago and just did a little skim, but they have sex
here. And Lucas is really frustrated
because Scarlett won't admit that they like love each other
and that this is more than sex, right?
And they have like anal sex for the first time.
And he was like asking to take like a picture of her and stuff
like that. And like, I just felt like also

(43:53):
I felt in and obviously Scarlettdidn't have this experience, so
I don't want to tell her that this is how she should feel.
But like I kind of felt like it was like kind of non consensual
because I just feel like people sometimes forget that if you
were in like an altered state ofmind, whether that's like

(44:13):
obviously people mostly talk about inebriation, but like also
like anger or like, yeah, stuff like that.
I'm like, you probably shouldn'tbe having sex like this if you
are like. Not in control of yourself.
Exactly. It kind of felt like he was
spanking her and stuff. And it kind of felt like it's
turned. Yeah, not good, at least for me.

(44:35):
I was like, I'm not. I didn't like it when it first
started. I actually paused to the audio
book when I was reading it. And just like, I don't know if I
wanna listen to this for a minute, but I know that that's
not how. Ali Hazelwood intended it, but I
just kind of felt like, I don't know, I didn't like, I didn't
like this scene. Yeah, interesting.
I it's sorry, yeah, I did read it a while ago now and then just

(44:58):
did a little re skim today, but that's that's interesting.
I mean, I feel like that's maybepart of like a dubsom relation,
like a subdom relationship. Is that like maybe it isn't
always perfect every time and you have to actually both kind
of like figure out what your limits are?

(45:20):
And maybe it was sort of Ali Hazel, like who knows?
I, I don't remember the scene very well.
But I mean, I'm not surprised that a kink book would have a
scene where, like, I mean, I don't like it, but where maybe
he's not like, perfectly in control or he's, I don't know,
going too far with the Dom. She didn't say stop, which like
was there like safe word and stuff like that.

(45:40):
And I do think that if she said stop, he would have stopped and
like stuff like that. Like that for sure, totally.
But I just felt like it remindedme, there's this scene in
Outlander where Claire runs away, Jamie finds her, is mad at
her, but and then yells at her and spanks her.
And then she's mad because he did that which he thought was OK

(46:02):
because it was like the 1700s orwhatever the fuck.
And then she's mad at him. So they're both mad at each
other and then they have sex. But he she's like holding a
sword up to his neck and having sex with him like and being like
don't ever do that to me again. And I don't know it.
I don't like crossing of the two.
Like for me, for me like it was more it was a little blurry and

(46:27):
I know some. Of those sex.
Can be blurry like I get the that's the reality but did not
like this. OK, OK.
Good to know. I want to hear what other people
think if it was just me, like misreading it, misinterpreting
it. I'll reread it.
For sure my own lens on it in a in a yeah certain way, but I
know that that wasn't how she interpreted it.

(46:48):
But I was like this seems weird to me that you're like like it
did feel like real punishing where I do like my
interpretation of like Dom sub is like you are punishing but
like it's like fake or. It's a, it's a performance.
It's a performance exactly. You're not actually being mad at
her. Totally.
And it's supposed to actually beabout like the sub, like the sub

(47:09):
is in charge, right? It's not like the Dom is not
actually in charge. They're just performing and she
in charge. Yes, and she didn't seem really
like she was in charge and that I didn't like that part I.
Think yeah, totally, totally. So yeah, Pen is a fucking mess.
She calls Lucas and ends up staying at his house for like a

(47:31):
week while they're awaiting the second test results of the
doping thing. This was like, again, Scarlett
has the patience of the fucking St. cuz I would have been like,
yeah that's actually not happening.
Like, exactly. Yeah.
Oh, I know that. Yeah.
This happens a lot where an ex is like lingering about in these
books. And it's like, no, I don't think

(47:54):
it's maybe just cuz I've never been able to accomplish it, but
I. Don't think it's like I.
Don't think it's like an elevated way of being that you
can like be that close still or like that's not your person
anymore. That's not your person to run to
in a crisis anymore. Call your parents.
Seriously. Call or just.
Learn to be on your own for call.
Sakes like call your therapist. Yeah, totally, totally.

(48:16):
I really felt like that was fucking weird.
And then I felt guilty because and, like, shameful because then
I was like, are you not like, yeah, like a healed, evolved
person? Like no I can make confirm this.
What? It's the NCAA Diving
Championships, which is how you qualify for the Olympics.
And Pens test results come back that she wasn't doping,

(48:40):
obviously, but she's still kind of fucked up from that whole
ordeal, so she isn't diving well.
So Scarlett actually ends up beating her and winning the
gold, the gold medal. And obviously this is insane
because it means that Scarlett'sgoing to the Olympics and that

(49:01):
she got a gold medal. So Lucas finds her and kisses
her, and they're celebrating theteam, the diving team, including
Penn, find them. And they're obviously shocked
because they think Penn and Lucas are still together.
So they're obviously like, you are cheating on her.
And then Penn basically doesn't say like.

(49:24):
No, I know this has been going on.
Yeah, yeah. And like, Lucas is like, I'm
going to set everything straight, like we're not
together. This isn't cheating or anything
like that. But people are still just like,
so confused and upset. But he really defends Scarlett
in this. And this was like really good.
Like he didn't try to placate orbeat around the Bush or like
anything like that. He was like, like, I'm in love

(49:45):
with this person. Pen is in the wrong, like.
Yeah, he does his like big, big public display of love or
whatever. What do you call that?
Yeah, his declaration of love kind of in front of everybody.
His declaration of love and he is trying to say this to
Scarlett and he's tried before but she like won't hear it.
You won't hear it. It's true.
She's too traumatized. She's too traumatized, so she

(50:07):
uses her safe for the first time.
So he so he can't tell her. And then she runs away.
And then she ends up heading home.
Yeah, because she's interning with her mom over the summer,
who's a doctor, and she hasn't talked to Lucas.
She hasn't talked to Penn. But her two teammates do start
apologizing her. And then Penn ends up showing
up, apologizing and admitting that she was wrong.

(50:32):
So then Scarlett's like, OK, I figured out like, I've got the
clear pen and I can still be friends and I can get the guys.
So she heads to Sweden and they reunite.
Mm hmm. And then we get a little
epilogue where they are living happily ever after as.

(50:52):
Olympians and. Olympians and doctors.
Doctor Olympians. That's right.
Yeah. They both become doctors.
Yeah, I like that she went to Sweden.
I I liked the travel component of this.
Basically anytime they went anywhere I was like, OK this is
cool. Me too, I always like books that
travel around. Me too.
It was a little bit lackluster though.

(51:12):
I don't know, something was justmissing.
I don't know, Penn, Penn coming,groveling back.
I don't know. I kind of just wish she stayed a
villain or something. Totally.
But then I was like, but becausealso I was like, I don't know
how I would forgive someone that's that psycho.
Yeah, totally. But then it's like she has no
friends if she doesn't. And then, yeah, I thought that
the, like, Lou Gosby was tracking her location, so he

(51:36):
knew she was coming in all of this stuff.
So it was kind of lackluster. But then I was like, but that's
him, though. Like I don't think he would have
wanted anything different anyways.
Should we say? Before we move to our rat team,
we'll discuss should we say eachone nice thing about this book?
Yeah, we're just like bashing it.
I'm so sorry. Ali's the one she's not.

(51:57):
She's not listening to her, or if she did, she's not.
She didn't get this far. Yeah, exactly.
She's crying in a corner at the,like, 10 minute mark.
I mean, I like, yeah, I, I don'tknow what I like.
I like, you know what? I like Scarlett as a person.
I like her. I think she was a complicated

(52:18):
gal. She had layers.
I like that she wasn't, I don't know, like always in the right
or always in the wrong like she was.
I liked her. Yeah, I liked some of the quirks
that they both had, like him keeping hit her his house really
clean and her not and stuff likethat.
Like I just thought some of those things were funny when

(52:38):
they would tease each other about it.
They did have good dynamic. They were very teasy.
They could they both teased well.
The little text message combos were cute.
That was good actually. The banter was.
They were both funny. They were funny.
And I do think he would be a good Dom.
Like I, I was like, I, I liked the, the, the blowjob scene and

(52:59):
I like, and I like to maybe a few other other sex scenes, but
like nothing I'm gonna like go back in think about, I feel
like. But yeah.
For sure. I liked the first one.
OK, let's wrap up with our roundtable discussion.
So our Internet investigation, this is our cursory peruse of
the Internet of Things. You need to know the working

(53:21):
title and some of the like limited edition books use the
title Wet WHET. What do you think of that?
I'm horrified. What is that?
Maybe I'm am IA dumb, I don't know what that is.
So I'm dumb. So when I was writing this
outline I wrote some examples ofwhat I thought about because I

(53:44):
was like, I don't get this because they don't even fuck in
the pool. Like I got like, I guess it's
like pool, obviously diver swimmer wet.
Yeah, like the word wet, but it's.
Yeah. And then I thought of like a
woman, like being wet. Yeah.
And then I thought of like, wet your appetite maybe?
Yeah. And that's all I thought.

(54:06):
And I couldn't decide which was which.
Like, no, that was none of theirlike last names.
That wasn't. I don't think that was like a
turn. Like what was that?
I don't know. That's not a good title too.
It's too it's too vulgar or something to like.
Was just funny coming from us, like like.
Yeah I love I just googled it. Sharpen the blade of a tool or

(54:29):
weapon. Yeah, that's the only what, your
whistle. Those are the only things that I
could think of. Yeah, and then, like the double
entendre of like they're swimmers and a woman gets wet
when she's having sex. Yeah, It it's it's too, it's too
obvious or something. I don't know.
I don't like it. I like the deep end.
Yeah, I like deep end. Yeah, I think that that makes

(54:49):
sense. Like she, they're all like
scared of part of the crux of the book is that she's scared to
go in, like go into the deep end.
Yeah, literally with the dive, but then figuratively with her
relationship. So I yeah, I think that makes a
lot. Emotional vulnerability and her
closed offness and everything. OK, this too is Lucas and
Scarlett are mentioned in Problematic Summer Romance.

(55:12):
OK, I have not read that. No, no, I haven't.
Me neither. It's yeah in the the universe.
But I like that she's definitelydoing these like Easter eggs,
like she's a Taylor Swift girl. Right.
And you can see that obviously within the books.
I I kind of like when authors dothat, like just nod to their

(55:33):
other books, self referential like universe.
Like I like that. Me too.
Me too. OK.
I wonder why these are unanswered questions with
listeners. I got a lot of them.
I thought, you know how when they are working on their
project, she draws something on his hand to explain something,
right. And then when he he gets his PR

(55:57):
with that on his hand. So his coach was like, you have
to keep that on your hand at alltimes, like those kind of
athlete. Superstitions.
Yeah, superstitions and I, I waslike, Oh my God, this is gonna
like play such a big role in thein the book and stuff.
And it was like nothing. Nothing.
Truly nothing. Yeah, I remember that scene too,
because I was like, clocked it. Something will happen later, no?

(56:20):
No, nothing like I just thought like he gets it tattooed on him
or like or that's how they hook up.
Like that's how they're seen together all the time because
she has to go draw it on hit. Like, I don't know.
Yeah, something, yeah. I put why does Ali Hazelwood
always write the female main character having an annoying ass

(56:42):
for me. Interesting, I didn't even clock
that. OK.
I don't care about Miriam. Yeah, that's right.
Right. Yeah.
She, she's got someone. She's got that one confidant,
but they're not even that close either.
I've totally forgot about that character.
Forgettable. Yeah, literally.
Forgettable. Maybe Ali Hazelwood had horrible

(57:04):
roommate experiences in university and just has to work
it out and just be like all roommates are disgusting just
like. Yeah, this would have been a
great time to edit this out because.
It was. Fucking irrelevant.
Irrelevant. And two goddamn long.
Like, why is this so long? Yeah.
So long and then I just wrote why?

(57:26):
So there's two things and like we kind of maybe answered one of
them, but Barb kept like she kept on calling Barb and Barb
called herself stepmom. And I was like, if you guys left
an abusive relationship then shegets guardianship over you when
you're a teenager. It's like you would just
wouldn't call that person your stepmom.

(57:47):
No, well and I actually had her family structure kind of
confused. Her dad was obviously very
abusive and couldn't can't be incontact with her.
Where's her mom? Doesn't say.
Barb is the dad's new partner, but.
Yeah, but then they leave. They broke up OK?
Yeah. Oh, they're the ones that left
together, Yeah. Was Barb and OK?
Yeah, like they have a conversation about maybe having

(58:09):
kids and she says like, I beat the step grandma and it's like,
girl, come on, Like you've been her real.
You're the grandma. Yeah, Yeah.
Also another woman in STEM. Yeah, of course.
They're everywhere, every turn, yeah.
And then just like, why? Where was she like possibly
weirded out by threesomes or like surprised that they had

(58:29):
threesomes or? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know, I guess, Yeah. I mean, maybe Lucas kind of led
her astray and was like, I'm notvery experienced with this
particular power dynamic, but he'd done other stuff like maybe
she was, she felt a little a little bit like.
Yeah, you're right. I think straight, you're right.
And that was the shock. Whereas like I felt like the

(58:51):
shock was coming from. She was like threesome, Yeah,
like she couldn't fathom but. No, I think.
That's she was just. More Jarred that she, like,
didn't think the two of them didit together.
Yeah, I didn't. Either yeah, OK, our gripes and
grumbles. These are NIT picky problems we
have with the book. Yeah, I'm I'm getting sick of
characters denying that there's something serious going on, but

(59:14):
it's just sex. Like that fucking pisses me off.
It goes on and on and on it It'sso it's such a thing where
they're just like, we're going to have the most amazing mind
blowing sex but not fall in love.
It's like, oh God, sure. As soon as you like, go out for
breakfast or attend a party together.

(59:34):
Or like sleepover, yeah. Something.
Like it's, it's not fuck buddy. Like I, I don't know, not that
it's so clear cut, but I'm like,if you've have a fuck buddy,
it's usually like pretty much like I would say, like you don't
share all of this personal information and spend time
together outside of having sex. And I was like, I don't know.
It's just, it just doesn't seem realistic.

(59:56):
Not realistic. Yeah.
That they're fighting it so much.
Especially when they're like young people.
It's, I don't know, it's just kind of like, don't you want, I
don't know, maybe people don't want.
That's a good point. Legit relationship, but it's
like legit relationships are so fun.
Yeah, I agree that you don't have enough dating trauma at 21.
Or maybe you do, I don't know. But I just feel like it's like,

(01:00:19):
I don't know, it's just startingto feel unrealistic.
And then I said this at the beginning, but yeah, I'm just so
sick of like the men being competent in relationships and
being able to be like, this is serious.
It's like, what man in real lifehas ever fucking done that?
Like, yeah, like it's usually the woman that has way more
relationship competency and in touch.

(01:00:42):
Like I don't want to generalize,but it's like they are just way
more attuned to what's happening.
So it's like, why in romance allthat?
I guess cuz the girl usually it's women reading it and they.
Want. They want the they want the guy
to act better, and that's just not realistic.
I. Feel totally.
It's the fantasy of it all of like, yeah, we all want a man to
like, take the lead and be like,we're a legit couple.

(01:01:04):
We're super in love. I'm going to be responsible and
like treat you so friggin good. Like it's just the ideal, I
guess. I don't know, Lucas kind of like
lacked a little bit now I think about it.
He was a great character. Like I actually think, you know,
my girl Abby Geminis, she makes actual she writes actual really
rad men. Her men are are you know that

(01:01:25):
they're hot and they sit like they're just like they're worthy
of our like, you know, fantasy. Yes, whereas, like Lucas kind of
wasn't. It was just hot, just hot
swimmer bod, but he didn't I don't know.
It was just didn't fit this time.
The hot swimmer bod was really carrying a lot of weight.
Totally. Yes, it probably does in life.

(01:01:45):
Like really like. No, I totally agree.
He was just like a little written a little like one note
like. I love that he was dependable
and reliable and and. Really actively pursued her.
Like really liked her. Drovelled and like and and was
like just talking about how in awe he was of her diving and

(01:02:06):
science mind and like stuff likethat.
But him personally, I know it was kind of more or more square.
There was, I have to say it, there was a number of like,
really bad gripe and grumble related to swimming.
Like there was a few like, errors that were so silly.
Well, yeah, like there was, I'm trying to think of 1.

(01:02:26):
Like at one point he was talkingabout some other teammate.
He was like, yeah, this guy got cut or whatever.
I really miss him. And then she's like, oh, was he
like an important part of the team?
And then he said, yeah, a butterfly guy.
Distance and I'm like, bro, there is no butterfly distance
Butterflies like the longest event would be 200 and that's

(01:02:47):
like not like a distance is like1500 like those two words don't
go together, which is like so silly.
If there's any other swimmer listening, they'd just be like
cat, you're ridiculous. But it just was with those type
of things where I'm like, you need a good editor girl, You
can't you need someone to check,Fact Check this.
If you're gonna be like Olympians, you know, you can't
be making silly mistakes. And also like the fact that I, I

(01:03:07):
mean, I've never swam at Stanford, but like the fact that
like divers and swimmers are some.
On the same team. Team is wild.
They don't even swim in the samepool.
Like there's a dive tank and then there's a comp pool.
It's like totally a different pool.
So there's also these weird politics of like we compete for
pool time. It's like, no, you don't.
That's not that's nothing. That pissed me off too.

(01:03:28):
That fucking pissed me off too because I was like, even I know
that. I guess maybe it's because I
work at a uni or whatever but I was like they wouldn't combine
teams like that, no. No, no, no, no, no, no.
When they even talked about water polo, they're like, don't
even get me started on the waterpolo guys.
It's like, OK, no one, no one feels that way.
Yeah, OK. One thing that pissed me off is,
like, Penn, like, seemingly knewnothing about Lucas.

(01:03:49):
She hadn't even met his family, really.
And like, didn't know the brothers and like, didn't know
all this, like specific stuff. And I was like, I get that she
like, didn't like in the later years want to date him, but I
was like, you would know stuff about a partner of seven years.
Absolutely. Yeah.
In a way that she didn't. That was like crazy it.

(01:04:10):
Didn't make sense. Yeah, Especially if they're the
golden couple. They made it sound like they
were in People magazine or something.
It sound like there was pressureon these two.
But yeah, it didn't make any sense.
You'd be able to list his like three other siblings or
whatever. Like absolutely.
I liked how Scarlett asked him to take her if she had to take

(01:04:32):
her shoes off in the house. Because we're Canadian and.
Yeah. You just automatically take your
shoes off. But in the States it is a
question sometimes, like some people are shoes on and some
people are shoes off, and that to me is crazy.
Oh yeah, my American family are shoes on and I'm like, that is
wild. I just can't believe it.
I don't like that. No, I can like.
Picture my aunt and uncle walking around their house and

(01:04:53):
me just being like blown away, Yeah.
Not them catching strays on thispodcast, but like, OK.
They're both dead. Oh no, rest in.
Peace. RIP.
RIP. But like, yeah, that is so
invading. Like yeah, yeah, truly so gross.
Anyways, she only used the word.This is so vulgar.

(01:05:15):
I know, even though I've just been talking about like the most
depraved shit. She only used the word cunt in
this book. Yeah.
And I was like, that's just, I was like, if this is takes place
in 2025 or whatever, like you wouldn't only like, I get that
maybe you're using interchangeable words for
vagina, but I'm like you just you would you would say pussy

(01:05:36):
and. You wouldn't.
You wouldn't literally only say cunt like that was crazy.
That is crazy. I know.
That was their word. Like in the sex, like in the
moment, which is wild. I don't, I mean teach their own
I guess it's but yeah, wild. It was wild because it wasn't
just him talking or her talking aloud like she, when she was

(01:06:00):
thinking, describing, yeah, describing it.
She would also use it. And I was like, you just you
wouldn't. No, that would be crazy if you
did, Yeah. Totally, totally.
I agree. I wrote that her birthday is the
same day as mine. Nice.
Which I thought was funny. But it's funny.
And then I feel like on this podcast we always talk about bad
nicknames. Yes, so gross.

(01:06:23):
And he calls her troll. I need AI need a Swede to like
chime in. Is this for real?
Like are we calling people trollin Sweden as a term of
endearment? Endearment.
It meant something like good luck or like lucky charm or
like. Yeah, he's good luck, charm or
whatever. Or something like that.
But I was like, after one time. You calling me troll?

(01:06:43):
Yeah, troll formal. OK.
OK, if anybody is listening to this that speaks Swedish,
they're gonna. They are rolling in their grave.
Yeah. Totally, whatever the form of
that is. Yeah.
For trolling or something like that.
OK, well, I just like, I don't know.
I was like, I don't, I don't like this.
No. Doesn't feel right, No.

(01:07:04):
Any other gripes and grumbles? Not really.
I feel like we were pretty. We were pretty fair.
Perfect. OK side character spot.
Like this is our nomination for an unforgettable supporting
character who deserves their due.
Because sometimes the best characters aren't the main
event. I hated most of the side

(01:07:25):
characters so. But I liked Hassan, the British,
British guy. I guess I like the brother
because I like anyone who's likegoing for bat going to bat for
like their brother's happiness, you know, like that's the
sibling, the sibling being like they she makes you happy.
Go for it. Look at that.
I like, you know, I, yeah, I mean, I did like to just the

(01:07:49):
imagery of like identical twins doing the synchro diving.
I was like, oh, that's. Yes, yes, and they were dating
other identical twins. Identical twins, which is wild.
Yeah. So that's cute.
Nice. That's a good nomination.
Yeah, I love that. OK, I sequel scoop.
This is your T on any upcoming sequel seasons and the general

(01:08:09):
reception. I actually think it's funny.
When I surveyed my book friends IRL I got very mixed reviews,
but it seems like it generally got good reviews online.
I don't think it was like such AI don't It's not her top book.
Ali Hazelwood, but didn't see much dissent, no.

(01:08:34):
There's a lot of hype around it,like I feel like a major promo
as it was about to come out, I thought it was going to be huge
and yeah, just kind of it faded the way real quick.
Totally, Yeah. I think it would be a good
movie. I mean the media that like the
kink part is tricky to film and stuff, especially with like
younger casts and stuff. Like I don't know it maybe

(01:08:54):
that's why it hasn't been pickedup yet.
But most of her books kind of have been I think right or are
gonna like, I feel like they're making everything like it's such
a. Romantic.
Yeah. Like, yeah, The love hypothesis
with Lily Reinhardt from Riverdale, Yes, Which is gonna
be on Amazon Prime. So I have.
I have no doubt that, like, moreof her books will be picked up.

(01:09:16):
Yeah. She's just obviously just follow
the money and yeah. Yeah, I thought it was
cinematic, the pool stuff. Yeah, and I do think it could
be, yeah, a fun standalone ROM com.
I just see it because they go toso many different locations and
you know where it's like plane and then it like title card that
says like Amsterdam plane, Jacksonville.

(01:09:38):
Like I can, I could totally see.I see the vision.
It would be very hard to fake a huge swim meet and a huge diving
meet though, like that actually sort of looked like worlds or
the Olympics. Like that actually might be a
big barrier now they think aboutit.
You can't. That'd be very expensive.
Yeah. And yeah, it would just be hard
to make that look not cheap. Yeah, yeah.

(01:10:00):
I'm curious for like off campus and stuff like that, how they do
the hockey, but hockey maybe is more reasonable.
But if they were to do a movie or TV show, who do you envision
as Lucas and Scarlett? Love pretend casting and I kind
of came up short on this, honestly.
There's I had. I kept picturing a blonde man.

(01:10:23):
There's so few, there's so few adult male blondes in the world.
Like, I couldn't really think ofanybody, honestly, because his
name was Lucas. I kept picturing Lucas Gage,
Yeah, who's kind of, like, tall.He's like, sneaky tall.
Like, you don't realize he's like 6/1.
He could probably be pretty jacked.
Yeah, I met him in real life. Did you really?

(01:10:43):
Yeah, when I went like meet likeloosely, but when I was in LA
last year, I was eating eating at a restaurant called Tower
Bar. Oh, I did.
You told me this is something. About yeah, OK, when you said
sneaky tall, absolutely. He is actually was like one of
the tallest people there. Like, wow, really tall.

(01:11:06):
Yeah, it felt that way. Yeah.
The only kind of blonde that I could actually think of that's
like, I guess like a natural bond was Austin Butler.
Yeah, okay. Yep.
Yeah. Austin Butler can do anything in
my books. My God.
Kate, but he would have to have like a Swedish accent.
I know. So maybe they should.
Maybe they should actually cast a Swede that speaks English.

(01:11:27):
Yeah, OK, I know he's old, old, old, way too old.
But I have such a crush on the Swedish actor Joel Kinnaman.
Do you know who he is? No, he's old now.
But if this was, I mean, he could be the coach or something
now he's so hot. I love him.
And he's also. Yeah.
He's also kind of brooding. Like that's the thing with these
subdom things too, is they have to be a believable Dom like they

(01:11:50):
have to be. He's so hot.
Are you dying right now? I know he's so hot and he's like
uniquely hot. It's like he's, I don't know.
He's like no one really looks like him.
And he's Swedish like straight up speaks, you know, he's if we
could just age him down by 20 years by. 20 years, obviously
the Scarves guard, like Alexander Scarves guard is

(01:12:12):
Swedish, but again, too old. I was kind of sometimes
picturing, which I know he's German, but the guy that plays
the lead in Maxton Hall, like that's another blonde.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. He looks, he looks like a good
swimmer type too. Like you have to have that
swimmer build. Yeah, like Cody Simpson.

(01:12:34):
I guess they could. I'm sure they could find a tall
blonde ripped. Yeah, sweet.
But if they could, if they didn't, they could change.
Maybe change the country or whatever.
Maybe. Yeah, totally.
Think he would still have to be like part of it is is them
learning about the Swedish culture.
I thought was cute but yeah thatwas.

(01:12:56):
But like you could do the same if he was like from a different
country. What about for Scarlett AKA
Vandy? Because of the singular braid,
they kept talking about how she has one braid.
I really couldn't get out of my head someone like Jenna Ortega.
No, it's funny, I was thinking Jennifer Lawrence just because

(01:13:17):
of the Katniss braid. So interesting.
But again, again, too old obviously.
Yeah, yeah, obviously. But yeah, totally.
But that type, I think General Ortega too, because Scarlett's
kind of goth. She's kind of like a loner.
She's like, I don't know, she's just kind of outside of the like
social circle. She struggled socially.

(01:13:38):
She's got hide at parties. I just felt like someone like
that, like or even like Cynthia or something like that.
She had she can rock a singular braid too, really well, but.
I could see that, yeah. It would have to be someone like
these girls are too like twig thin.
I'm like, it has to be like muscular athlete.
Like gymnast, muscular, like really jacked.

(01:13:59):
Yeah, like a little diver, obviously, but.
That was also something that they talked about extensively
that I was like, we could have cut this, but like always
talking about. And I get that it's part of the
sport, but like, yeah, just the sore muscles and the training
and yeah. Yeah, the working out and stuff.
Yeah, totally. I also like the just the
position of her being like really dark hair and him being
really blonde or something like.Yeah, I like that too.

(01:14:20):
In off campus they have like, I think pretty much like 2.
They're not unknowns. They've been in projects, but
like small projects, and I thinkthat this would be a good movie
to like, maybe not have like, orthey could use more unknown
people. For sure.
I mean, they probably have to. I mean, when I say Jenna Ortega,
like she would never, she would never.

(01:14:42):
It's just kind of had. It's just that, like, type of
look or something, or maybe thatlike, who's that girl from
Stranger Things who was at the Taylor Swift concert in London
in LA? Sadie.
Sadie Singh. Yeah.
CD Singh. That's a really good one.
That's a really, really good one.
I was even thinking like Lola Tongue from the summer.

(01:15:03):
I turned pretty like she's a swimmer.
Maybe it's just because she's a swimmer in that show.
And that was the thing too. Maybe why this book didn't
really hit for me is that I couldn't really picture them.
Like sometimes when I really like a book, I have a clear
image and I'm just like, that's the guy or whatever.
But now I'm just like I can't really picture them. 100% I
totally agree some like there was some nice quotes and stuff

(01:15:24):
like that, but I do like find it's like if I can't even like
remember 1 and like I you guys, I literally finished the book
today and it just didn't seem super memorable even though
again like I had a good time reading it.
I read it over I think 3 days like I, I once I got into it, I,
I did some, I did some Start Stop in the spring fully stopped
it and then it's like once I gotin, yeah, it was smooth sailing,

(01:15:49):
but. I'm good.
I'll read more Ellie Hazelwood forever and always.
I think she's good enough that I'm like, I'll, I'll always pick
up her books, like maybe not like crush all of them, but you
know, I, I trust them to be goodenough for sure.
Totally, totally. OK, My last pitch for Scarlett
is maybe what about like, HaileeSteinfeld?
Oh yeah yeah I weirdly find her looks so annoying.

(01:16:13):
I think it's because of pitch perfect three or.
Whatever yeah, 100% is Yeah that's so funny.
Or her dating that NFL are. Yeah, totally.
They're married now, I think. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
you're right. Although she was very, very good
in sinners, she she would do collegiate athlete well actually
she looks she would get really jacked and that would be good.

(01:16:33):
I could see her in the braid. Yeah, totally.
And the one piece bathing suit. And the one piece.
Yeah. OK, Kat, this was so much fun.
Thank you. So.
Much for coming on. You for having me anytime.
And that's the story of DEEP End.
Thank you so much for listening and thank you to Kat for joining
me on today's show. As soon as we finish recording,

(01:16:55):
Kat texted me Harrison Dickinson.
And that makes so much sense because he was in Baby Girl,
which was a Dom sub situation. He's blonde, he's tall, he's
super hot. So I would be so for that.
I think he's British so we can make him a Brit wouldn't be as
exciting as a Swede, but they could still do the whole like,

(01:17:16):
learning about each other's customs thing.
Yeah. Let us know what you think.
This is the penultimate episode #49 but before our 50th episode
where I'm covering my favorite book and I finally finished all
of the episodes I wanted to get done last April lol.
I'm heading on vacation. I will be back in November and I

(01:17:40):
feel like I have some ideas of books that I want to cover, but
if you have ones that I should read, let me know.
Follow me on socials at Ready toBe Romanced.
And of course, subscribe it and leave a rating and review that
helps the pod find new listeners.
Our next episode is Skin of the Night.
Until then, happy reading for Ready to be Romanced.

(01:18:02):
I'm Tori. Goodbye.
Welcome to Ready. I forgot what podcast I was
doing. OK.