Outlander by Diana Gabaldon

Episode Transcript
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(00:19):
Welcome to Ready to be Romanced.I'm Tori.
And I'm Laura. And today we're discussing
Outlander, probably 1 of the easiest titles I've had to say
on this podcast. Welcome to RTBR Laura, it's so
nice to have you. Thanks.
It's great to be here. Can you tell the listeners a
little bit about yourself and your book tube channel?

(00:41):
Sure, sure. Thank you for the lovely
introduction, Tori. I think that you probably found
me from YouTube. Yes, Yeah, I have a YouTube
channel where I talk about books.
That YouTube channel is called Laura's Library Card and I read
a lot. I read 100 books last year and I
focus a lot in romance. Actually 69% of my reads last

(01:05):
year were romance so. That is so funny and.
It worked out that way so well. Perfectly, yeah.
What made you start your YouTubechannel?
Like why that medium? And what was it about books that
was the topic of your your choice?
Well, I've always been a big reader, like my whole life,

(01:27):
always been a big reader. And I've always been a big
yapper too. So sorry, but I love to talk and
I had thought a little bit on and off about a podcast or a
YouTube channel or something along those lines.
And in 2020, when suddenly I hadnothing social to do whatsoever

(01:50):
and a little bit of extra free time on my hands, I decided I
wanted to kind of throw myself into something along those
lines. After a little bit of research,
I realized that while there are some really great book podcasts
out there, the format that I waskind of most interested in doing
in a casual sense lent itself more to YouTube.
And there was already a built inbook tube audience present there

(02:13):
that I was hoping to capture. And so that's sort of why I
started my channel. My goal was to talk about the
books that I love to read and tomeet other bookish cool people
and, you know, form friendships and get book recommendations.
And I feel like I've managed to do that with Laura's library
cards. So that's sort of why I jumped
into YouTube. But I think my husband also

(02:36):
appreciated no longer long lectures on the books.
I could just record that insteadof spew to him.
But totally. Totally.
That's all I got started. Nice.
And what made you start reading romance?
Were you always a reader? Did you pick that up also in
2020? No, I've been a reader like my

(02:56):
whole life. My grandmother was a reading
teacher, so I started reading like really young and above my
grade level, blah blah blah. So I, of course, I read
basically anything I could get my hands on as a kid and through
as a young adult, I was reading mostly young adults, especially
fantasy and contemporary, all ofthe big series, you know, Hunger

(03:18):
Games, Twilight, you know, a bunch of stuff like that, love.
And eventually in college, I kind of realized that there was
this whole other section of the library that was the adult side
of things and thought, you know what, I'm in college now, I
should figure out what I like. So.
So yeah, throughout my college years, it was funny.

(03:39):
I looked through all of my Goodreads year goals to try to
figure out, like, when this, like, shift happened.
And it was so fun to take that trip down memory lane.
But yeah, I basically kind of started with Jodie Pico for
literary fiction. And Meg Cabot was an author that
I knew from Princess Diaries andyoung adult stuff.
So I read some of her adult and really my foray into romance was

(04:04):
paranormal romance. Some of the first books that I
was reading on the adult side were by Christine Feehan.
She has this whole Carpathian series that are all like
vampires. I'm the first person to say that
cuz usually it's like you start with like a historical or or a
classic and then you're like youreach the like alien monster

(04:29):
romance like. I mean, otherwise, spot on, yes.
I started with like paranormal, I think probably because I was,
you know, it wasn't that long off of Twilight and I was just
kind of browsing and saw something else.
It was like also a vampire romance.
It just was in the adult sectionbecause there was like full on
smut and I was like, OK, so I still have a strong soft spot

(04:52):
for paranormal romance just because that was the, the intro
into my romance world. But you know, and I still was
reading fantasy and other stuff.I, I've always thought of myself
as someone who read widely. Maybe maybe you know, 7030 is
not quite as widely as I would have liked, but you know, not
too bad. And I did eventually pick up
historical romance because I liked that romance aspect.

(05:14):
So I read a lot of like Regency stuff, Sarah McClain, and then
and then actually I read a couple of like pretty time
travel romances that led me to Outlander.
So I read Outlander for the first time in like 2013.
Perfect timing with the show. I I actually don't remember when
the show first started. When did the show first start

(05:35):
20? 14 So really, yeah.
I had read the whole series before the show or everything
that was out, yeah. Yes, yes, yes.
But then, yeah, then contemporary kind of came right
after that for me. My foray into contemporary
romance was Christina Lauren topfaves and then eventually into
like sports and contemporary. And nowadays it's much more like

(05:58):
evenly split between contemporary and like anything
that's non human, like monster and alien, which which is wild
to me that I started reading those in like 2021.
It feels like much longer ago than that.
But yeah, I, I like to, I don't read very much dark romance
typically, but otherwise I'm pretty open to kind of anything.

(06:19):
I would say you've asked me whatsome of my favorite tropes were.
I would say some of my favorite tropes are enemies or rivals
delivers. And I love a fake dating
relationship. I love when they're like, we're
going to have benefits, but no feelings.
And I'm like, I know you're going to have feelings.
Yeah, yeah. And I have read the there's like

(06:42):
a fated mates like you were. I'm always destined for me.
I said sometimes that can be done like really well.
But for me, the main thing that I want in my romance is to see
the romance. I want to see good emotional
development. I want to know why there is love
here. And if you can show me that I'm
on board. It doesn't matter what the parts
are. Yeah.

(07:03):
Matter what the plot is, as longas I can like, believe that
there is love and I'm seeing it happen, I'm on board.
I love that. Yeah.
You hit some really fun topics. Like I, I really, I had like a
year where I was reading a lot of sports romances.
I haven't covered one on the podcast yet, but and then I feel
like faded meats too. I I love that I'm, I've been

(07:25):
reading a lot of like Omegaverserecently, so that's been really
fun. So I love that.
So you, yeah, read Outlander waybefore me.
I actually didn't read the booksand I've actually only read the
first 2 until 2020. I always saw Outlander like on

(07:45):
my Netflix, like the TV show on my Netflix like front page,
whatever that is for you, the for you page of Netflix.
And I was always like, I feel like I would really like this.
I'm interested in Scotland. I love time travel romances.
I love any story where there's action, but the main kind of the

(08:08):
heart of the story is romance. But know what?
I started the first episode and because it was Frank and Claire,
which we'll get into, but I likedidn't give a shit about it.
So I actually stopped. And then I think a few months
later I was like, OK, I'm going to try this one more time.
I had just gotten into a lot of Spanish, kind of not
telenovelas, but Spanish Netflixdoes a lot of romance shows and

(08:33):
I just watched a lot of them andI was like, OK, I'm going to
give Outlander a try. I actually skipped the first
episode, started the 2nd episodeepisode and was like, Oh my God,
I'm obsessed. And then went back and watched
the first episode. I just, it's kind of it's very
like a Qatar where I stopped theafter the first book cuz I was
like, I'm I'm good. And then all of a sudden you're

(08:55):
like blown away. So yeah, I'm, I'm really, really
excited. And then I became obsessed with
it. So I'm so excited to talk about
the book and the show with you. Yep.
Yeah, the first book and the first season.
The first book and the first season.
God, God help us if we were doing more than that.
God like God. OK, so spoiler warning, we're

(09:18):
discussing the first book of theOutlander series and it's TV
adaptation. We won't talk about anything
that comes after that and just acontent warning off the top here
we're going to be talking about attempted sexual assault, like
pretty extreme violence and rape.
So if you you need to take breaks or take care of yourself,
please, yeah, proceed with caution.

(09:41):
So Outlander is written by DianaGabaldon and it was published in
June 1st, 1991, which makes thisthe oldest book that I've
covered on this podcast. We start the book off in 1945
with Claire and her husband, Frank Randall, who are on their
second honeymoon to Inverness, which is a small city in

(10:03):
northern Scotland. And it's the end of World War 2,
which they both participated in.Claire was a nurse and Frank was
an officer. So they've spent, you know, the
last six years apart and they'rekind of on a second honeymoon of
sorts trying to re establish their connection with each

(10:23):
other. And I thought it was interesting
that the show actually starts very the very first things that
you see is like Victory Day, youknow, Claire's yes, Claire's
like the show opens with blood. Claire's a nurse.
And then it's like, yay, the waris over.
And I was like wow, I really like.
Sets the tone for the whole shebang.
Totally. And you see that, Claire, right

(10:43):
from the get go, which I really like, is this like very brave,
very get your hands dirty type of heroin, which I think is
sometimes maybe a little bit different from a lot of like
historical and maybe even time travel romances that she's like,
she almost had like a more gruesome role in the war than

(11:06):
Frank did. Yeah.
Because Frank is a professor by trade.
So they're going on the second honeymoon and then they're going
to land in Oxford. He'll be teaching there.
He kind of, I feel like he kind of swindled her into this, into
this honeymoon. Like I feel like he's like,
yeah, I feel like we should go on a second honeymoon.
And I know just the spot. And it's the spot where I can do

(11:28):
some personal research on my family tree because he has like
this fascination where his great, great, great, great
grandfather, Jonathan Randall, or he has a nickname, Blackjack
Randall, who is like notoriouslybad and evil and kind of brutal
in the era of the Jacobites. And so he is discussing with

(11:53):
anyone he can the origins of Blackjack Randall and, you know,
his family tree. I didn't really get the
impression that he, like, swindled her.
I think that she's willing to goalong.
She and the The thing about her too, is that she keeps herself
company, which it's like, again,they it's like, aren't you on

(12:13):
your honeymoon? Aren't you supposed to spend
time together? And he's like with Reverend
Wakefield and she's buying vasesand drying herbs, but that's OK.
In both the book and the show, they make time to, you know,
they make time to be together aswell.
Yes, yes, that's true. There is one specific night
where they were at the pub and they clear heads back to the bed

(12:38):
and breakfast that they're staying at.
And and Frank stays out a littlebit later.
But when he comes home, he sees a man looking up at Claire in
the window. And it's kind of like, Oh my
God. Like, is this someone that has
come from Claire's time in the war to like, reclaim her as his
lover and kind of approaches theman, but as he approaches him,

(13:03):
he disappears because it's like a ghost and like, apparition?
Frank is like totally shook up when he comes in to Claire.
He's like, I don't, she said. You look like you've seen a
ghost. And he's like, I don't know,
maybe I did. Yeah.
I thought this was done really well as I mean, overall the
whole show is a great adaptationof the book.
But this was a scene that was lifted basically straight from

(13:25):
the book where she where they discuss what he saw and she
tries to give him a little bit of comfort.
So I thought it was well done and it's never really been
officially figured out. Like there's no.
Yeah. Conclusion to that quite yet.
Totally. Diana hasn't released the last
book yet and throat the other eight books.

(13:47):
She doesn't actually answer the question of like what this is.
And again, we're not going to talk about the other books.
So I don't want to like super talk about like theories, but it
is very interesting that that issomething that like this mystery
kind of travels through the whole series.
And I think this also really highlights something about

(14:09):
Claire and Frank and it's that that they're like science
people, like they're like this is what's true.
Like obviously like Claire's really into like botany and
medicine and Frank is a professor.
And I think that something like seeing a ghost would really kind
of shake your values as like a very like evidence based in

(14:32):
person. So we meet some fun characters
in their time in Inverness, one including Reverend Wakefield,
who meets with Claire and Frank because he has information about
Blackjack Randall. And this kind of, you know,
foreshadows. This is actually.
I'm glad Claire was listening atthis point because it saves her

(14:52):
multiple times eventually. There's a lot.
There's so much information thatis packed into these first two
chapters that is like foreshadowing and and
revelations and like informationthat Claire really relies on.
And it's like kind of impressive.
If you're just skim reading, you're going to miss it because
most of this is important. 100% and you don't.

(15:13):
You obviously don't know it's important at the time.
This is grandma's there. She's like clear.
I'll read your tea leaves and I can read your palm again.
Claire is kind of she's the science girly, so she's like a
little hesitant about what this is going to be.
Mrs. Grahams like adamant. She specifically says something
about like her marriage line or her love line on her hand is

(15:36):
forked. There's two splits.
And she's she talks about how she can find another lover after
like one had maybe passed away. And it's funny, 'cause she Mrs.
Graham's like, oh, so you were awidow and then you married Frank
after that. And then she's like, no, so
Claire's like, OK, this is getting like a little Hoo, Hoo,

(15:59):
a little a little too pseudoscience for for me.
And she's like a little bit kindof like weirded out.
But I think she she gets a little thrill.
I think that there's a moment where I think Claire's having a
moment of like, oh, chills just at my spine kind of at the
moment. Yes.
Yeah. Especially since Misses Graham

(16:19):
makes a comment about, oh, thereare a lot of strangers in your
life, and one of them is your husband.
And so it's like foreshadowing. And that resonates with Claire
because this is a honeymoon where they're trying to
reconnect. There's this lovely scene where
Claire and Frank go to Craig theDunn.
So Claire had been there previously on like a little

(16:40):
foraging trip. It is is Beltane, which is the
like summer solstice between spring equinox and summer
solstice. So they go watch like a special
ceremony again. It's fun seeing these like
again, really 2 educated people kind of witness something a

(17:01):
little witchy. So they go up to Crainodon and
they're like hiding and watchingwomen, including Missus Baird,
who runs their Airbnb or their their bed and breakfast dancing
around the stones. Very, you're right.
I mean, I know that Frank is a professor and he's interested in

(17:21):
just the the ways of the local people, both past and present.
And so he is the one who says let's go see the Druids and the
singing and the dancing. He's interested from sort of a,
a scientific standpoint, the, you know, the anthropological
like what are the origins of this dance?
What are the origins of this chant that they're singing?
And Claire's just kind of along for the ride.

(17:43):
But also I think that they both have a moment while they're
watching the druids kind of realizing that there's a
timelessness to it or like a, anelegance to it.
And they're they're both logically thinking this is kind
of weird to see a bunch of ladies in their sheets, you
know, dancing around. But they're also kind of like
awed by this moment as well. And I thought that was an

(18:05):
interesting way to like set the tone for the start of the of the
whole book and series. Totally.
Because if they're kind of like city people and they're kind of
in a rural area, learning about someone like the folklore that
people still really believe in, it is interesting.
And this is really depicted so beautifully.

(18:27):
I, I think it's probably some ofpeople's favorite scenes.
And like even the whole TV show because it's done.
It's just, it's so exciting and it's so beautiful to watch.
But the next day, Claire's like,know what?
There was a sample of a plant that I've been, you know, dying
to get my hands on. So she heads back to Craig and
done. And she hears this humming noise

(18:49):
coming from the rocks, So she's confused.
And she reaches out to touch oneof them, and she faints.
But when she comes to, she's like, OK, like, I've got to
reorient myself. She hears other people from the
distance, and she's like, OK, I can, you know, go to them and
get help. And she sees a bunch of men and
kilts fighting. And so her first thought is

(19:12):
like, oh, this must be a historical reenactment of
something that's happening. I love that one.
It's so funny because again, she's like, so she's like, no,
like she's the facts girly. So she she made a really
realistic and like fair guess ofwhat could be happening and
she's obviously freaked out. But don't worry, Claire, your

(19:35):
husband's there. So she bumps into this man and
she goes, like, Frank, what are you doing here?
Except for it's not Frank. It is Frank's ancestor, Jonathan
Randall, who, as Claire knows, is a really brutal officer in
the English regime. She's in danger because they are

(19:57):
like, currently in the middle oflike, a fight between the
English soldiers and the Scotsman.
Super scary. The way that this is portrayed
in the TV show because it's the same actor plays both
characters, is absolutely insane.
I think it's some of the best acting.
Like I've watched now the I've reread the book twice now and

(20:18):
I've watched the TV at least thefirst season of the TV show at
least three times. I think it's some of the best
acting I've ever seen. Yeah, I think, I think it was
totally clever and was like great choice to use the same
actor for both parts. I mean, Frank is relatively like
minor character. He actually gets more time in

(20:38):
the show than we get to see. In the books.
But yeah, he, the way the same actor was able to portray these
two very different personalitiesreally jumped off the page.
And I, I love that Claire is confused in this moment.
She's like, well, it must be a reenactment.
And then she's like, why are they using live ammunition?

(20:58):
Wow, musket, I hear. And she she bumps into the sky
and she goes Frank and has half a second of like, I don't know
what my husband's doing here, but like, all is well.
And then to be like, you're not Frank, it's like a it's like an
uncanny valley moment where you're like, whoa, like things
are not as they seem. And totally.

(21:19):
Yeah. And I really like how for the
most part, like Blackjack Randall, all of his like you see
here when we first are introduced to him, you get a
feeling immediately that he's like not cool or like, but you
know, like he's there's something there.
And yet it's played so like calmly and coolly, but like

(21:39):
cruelly, it's not over the top villain.
It's like this, just sort of insidious.
Monster. It's clever.
Yes, yes, yes, 100%. I know when the comfort is
ripped out from underneath her feet, it's so scary and so sad.
But yeah, that's a great depiction of him.
It kind of reminds me of maybe Professor Snape or I don't know,

(22:00):
just one of those villains that it's like they are cool, calm
and collected, but it's like youcan just tell like it the
villain energy like ripples off them.
Yeah, he's, he's exuding villainenergy and like when this he's
in the middle of a fight, he's in the middle of the Highlands.
He doesn't trust any of the local people.

(22:21):
You know, he views himself as above the local Scots, you know,
population. And so when he sees what appears
to be like a well bred English woman show up, he's naturally
suspicious of her. And so I think, I think that
this happens in both the book and the show.
He wonders if she is a prostitute.
And he basically almost immediately starts to be like,

(22:43):
well, let me sample the where's.And she is of course, like,
excuse me, but she's still so thrown because it looks like
Frank, but like it's not Frank. And so and she doesn't figure it
out what's going on yet. So it's it's such an interesting
scene and introduction because she hasn't picked up on what's
going on yet. Yeah, yeah, she has no idea that

(23:05):
she's time traveled cuz this happens within minutes.
I really think that this is justso well written and this is just
like such a cool idea and like, I was just so thrilled when I
was watching this and reading this.
Yeah, cuz she's in her 1940s clothes.
So to them they're they're like,Oh my God, you're like basically
naked because she's in like a little like nightgown almost, or

(23:27):
like. She's in like a perfectly
respectable cotton light dress for the 1945 but then.
Like she was. Right.
Like lightweight. Yeah.
Like it's like little, like a Shimiz, which you would wear
underneath a lot of multiple light.
And so they're like, that's why he sort of thinks that she might
be a prostitute. He's like, yes, you're not
dressed. Yes, totally, totally.

(23:50):
Yeah, So he, like, attempts to rape her.
He is, yeah. Like asking questions.
She's quite frazzled but he getsknocked out by a Scotsman and
she's attempting to fight this new person off but then gets
knocked out herself and she getswoken up.

(24:10):
She's in a cabin surrounded by Scots, and again, she's
disoriented, but they are tending to one of the young men
there because he has dislocated his shoulder and they need to
relocate it and because she cannot fucking help herself.
This happens so often. I'm like, Claire, some points

(24:31):
you just need to shut up. But she cannot do that.
She's like, she's seeing them doit poorly.
And because of her medical training, she's like, you guys
need to stop. Let me do it.
So she does it for them. They're kind of impressed, but
they're like, again, who The Whothe fuck is this?
Sassanak, which is Gallic for Outlander, which is like a word

(24:53):
for someone who is English and Iguess in.
Scotland. Yeah.
Non Scottish. Yes, not Scottish.
And I think she starts to kind of not figure it out, but I
guess kind of because she is saying words like she's using
words like disinfect and like just kind of some medical terms

(25:15):
and they have no idea what she'stalking about.
So she's kind of like, hey, why don't they know?
Why wouldn't they have any idea of the words that I'm using?
I think at this point she's the descriptions in the book are
sort of like her subconscious and her brain's been working and

(25:36):
her brain has has come to the conclusion that she like as far
fetched this might seem, it seems like she's not in 1945
anymore, but I think that consciously she doesn't want to.
Acknowledge. That right, So she's like she
knows it or she suspects it, butshe's not willing to.
She's like, no, that's ridiculous.
Don't be ridiculous. Totally.

(25:58):
She's like fighting with herselfbecause that would be an insane
thing to happen to someone. And she's also, she's like
really manhandled here at the start.
Like she he arrives, she's confused, and then she's in the
middle of a fight. So she's like literally trying
to run away from people with guns.
And then she gets knocked out. She's dragged to who knows

(26:20):
where. And then she's like, OK, see you
later. And they're like, no, you're no,
no, no. So she, she doesn't have the
like opportunities here at the start to come to any real
conclusions because like she is just being pulled, pulled,
pulled. That's a good point.
Like there's so much disruption here that she can't, she doesn't

(26:40):
have two seconds to like, think this through, right?
And also it's like when you're knocked unconscious multiple
times in the span of hours, likeyou're not doing so hot.
Like, yeah. So yeah, she tries to, she's
like, OK, boys, see you later. And they're like, no, you're
coming back to Castleliac, wherelike we all live, which is in

(27:03):
like the Mackenzie territory, the the biggest state on the
Mackenzie territory. And she's riding with the man
whose arm she just mended. And he also has like, a, a
musket ball injury, too. So there's like, the two things
that she's tended to. This is just like the funny.
This is the funniest thing to meabout romance novels because

(27:26):
it's like, yeah, everyone was like, burly, gross, like old
hairy men. But of course there's like,
there's one hottie. There's.
One guy that's like young and hot and like kind and stuff like
that. Like, oh perfect.
Yeah, I don't know, she later, Imean, OK, they've been

(27:49):
travelling rough, so everyone's a little smelly, everyone hasn't
had a chance to shave, etcetera.But there are definitely like
she admires Dougal later. Like she like not, she doesn't
think he's super hot, but like, you know, Jamie is on the
younger side and he is attractive, but like she doesn't
really realize that at 1st. And I think also she's so in

(28:10):
shock in this scene that she doesn't have an opportunity to
see the good side of a lot of these, a lot of the men that
she's traveling with, but. Totally.
There always is the one hottie and you're like, huh, I wonder
who the love interest is going to be?
Yeah, totally. On the way back they get
ambushed by English soldiers andshe's actually able to.

(28:33):
Like, they are so in awe of her.They kind of think she's witchy
at this point because she is able to recognize Cocknam Rock,
which is like a specific rock that Frank had pointed out to
her how it was the perfect placefor the English to ambush the
Scots. So she's able to kind of tip off
the Klansmen, which is great. They safely arrive back at

(28:58):
Castle Yuck and we meet Miss Mistress Fitzgibbons, who is
kind of like the mother hen of the castle.
And so she's a little bit of a healer herself.
So she helps Claire tend to Jamie's wounds properly, like
they're able to like properly disinfect them and stuff.

(29:19):
And Misses Fitzgibbon leaves theroom and Jamie and Claire are
able to have like a kind of realconversation in some peace and
quiet for the first time. There's a moment where she is
tending to his his shoulder thatand like has to like kind of
remove his shirt and she noticesall these like heeled scars on

(29:41):
his back. And it's Blackjack Randall
because he's had multiple encounters with Jamie over the
last couple years, one when he was imprisoned at Fort William
and another time where he kind of invaded his home.
Lolly, Brock. Yeah, I think this was a this
was sort of the first real time that we get in the book and the

(30:04):
show to see who Jamie is. And I mean, yeah, there's like
quick in the dark moments and a couple words exchanged on the
road as they travel. But in this whole scene, he
reveals like some of his trauma from his past, which we
physically are able to see with the scars all over his back.
He is able to kind of show a little bit of humor just in a

(30:28):
couple turns of phrase. It shows how he really cares
about his family because he was like sticking up for his sister
when Blackjack Randall came to invade his home.
You know, there's this is a really cool scene that in very
few words, we get a quick sketchof this strong, brave character
who loves his family and who hasendured something that's really

(30:51):
brutal. Like these scars from these
multiple floggings on his back are are obviously like a
terrible, terrible thing that hemanaged to survive.
And he is now fit and strong andhealthy.
And I think this is a really good scene to show that Jamie is
like a complex, well layered character and how he sweeps

(31:13):
because Claire starts like breaking down when she, you
know, she tends to him, but she's like getting emotional
about the situation she's finding herself in and the fact
that she doesn't really know where she is.
She's come to this horrible conclusion she doesn't want to
believe in. She's away from her husband, has
been kidnapped and knocked out, etcetera.
And like she cut starts to breakdown and Jamie comforts her.

(31:34):
So I think this is a really great scene to show a connection
between these two characters, not only to show his his
character and and the strength of character, but also to show
like a little bit of tenderness back to her as she like
administers to him. And it's just like a really
great start to that foundation. Completely.
And I think the other piece is that he like feels, I think now

(31:58):
that they're like healed, obviously, that they were like
traumatic experience or reminders of a traumatic
experience, but also that like he's kind of like deformed.
Like I think he's like a little bit embarrassed by it.
And he notes in the TV show how he's not, he doesn't feel pitied

(32:20):
by Claire. And I think that that's another
thing and that he really likes about her.
And I think like her time in thewar lends to this, where she's
seen a lot of deformities and stuff like that, that she's not
scared or frazzled by them. So Claire meets with the Klan

(32:41):
Laird, which is Colum McKenzie, and she has made-up her back
story. She is a widow who was traveling
alone but she got robbed and she's looking for transport to
France to meet her extended family.
She goes by her maiden name Claire Beecham.
Everyone basically thinks she's an English spy but also slash

(33:02):
like witch kind of like person because it's it's weird she
showed up in a weird way. She has a weird accent for a
woman to be travelling alone in remote the remote Highlands,
like it's weird. It's also odd because Colum
can't quite figure out what she like, you know who she is, but
he his first thoughts of the fact that she's planted here by

(33:23):
the English because she has a British accent.
He realizes very quickly that she doesn't understand Gaelic.
So why would the English ever send a, you know, a highborn,
well bred lady A, but B, especially somebody as a spy who
doesn't understand the local language.
Like that's a terrible decision.So I think I think that column

(33:45):
McKenzie is smart enough to somewhat quickly rule Claire out
as a spy, but but also it's still really confusing for all
the reasons you just listed. So I think that she is really
trying to walk this thin line ofbeing accepted by them but like
and not suspicious. She doesn't want to be thrown in

(34:07):
the dungeon or anything but likeshe can't reveal who she is.
So I thought, I think it's a funline to walk and to see how the
locals do respond to her. Totally.
Because I think he's you're right that he's like, OK, she's
not a spy, but then he's like, well, what is she?
The only logical thing would be is that she would be here to spy

(34:28):
on us. So it is, it is very fun.
And this is where we get the confirmation.
Like again, she knows in her heart of hearts that she has
slipped through time, but she sees a letter on his desk that's
dated April 20th, 1743. So it's like confirmation 100%.

(34:51):
She has travelled back in time 200 years, 202 years.
This is another moment where we just see Jamie this, you know,
feminist superstar of 1743 wherethere's like a Klan meeting.
It's one of those things where the people bring their
complaints to the leader and he dispenses like a punishment for

(35:14):
them. And there's this girl who we
find out his name is Leary and she has been accused of loose
behavior and her punishment is to be whipped.
But Jamie steps in and takes thepunishment for her.
So he gets like punched in the face.
And of course, Claire is the person to, you know, tend to his

(35:34):
face. And she's like, why did you do
that? Like, do you know the girl, like
what happened? And we find out that he
basically doesn't know her, but because she would be forever
marked as like loose he and loose like, come on, This is the
language here is so sad. But because she would be forever
marked as a harlot, he took the punishment for her.

(35:57):
So we're, we're kind of seeing more of his, his personality and
that he's pretty selfless and, you know, wants the the best for
other people. It's amusing to me.
I've I've listened to the audiobooks for I actually have
read with my eyeballs almost nothing.
I've I've listened to all of it on audio and Davina Porter is

(36:19):
the audiobook narrator and she does a fantastic job.
I absolutely love her audiobook.And what's amusing to me is that
in this first installment in Outlander, she said she
pronounces this character's nameis like Lier and like she.
And then she even sometimes sayslike Lira.
And then like it's not in so many books later where they're
like leery. Yes, yes, it's I was like, it

(36:42):
cracked me up. I was like, oh, so you someone
came along and corrected you and.
Totally. It's it's so funny because I the
the first time I read this, I read the book and then I
listened to the audio this second time.
And I think that it's also mentioned in one of the podcasts
I listened to where they were like, I think that actually

(37:03):
Davina was right. And I think that they were
actually wrong in the show. So I think maybe they switched
it because of the show, but I actually think, yeah, that.
No, I I think the audio books were recorded in like 1991 and
I'd be too like early like when the books were published.
So they. Would so they would have been so
it wouldn't have been influencedby the TV show interesting, but

(37:26):
because I OK, maybe she is. I remember they, they did
mention that that the pronounce pronunciation of her name was
kind of up for debate and they were.
So the podcast I'm referencing is like the official Outlander
podcast. And they were laughing because
they just ended up calling her like crazy names because none of

(37:49):
them could come to an agreement of what her name and how it was
pronounced. But Claire is kind of becoming
like getting a reputation for being a healer.
I was going to ask you this because I'm curious, do you
think her showing off her skillsin like these multiple scenarios

(38:10):
helps her chances of getting back home?
Or do you think it hinders her? Because at some point I was
like, you've made yourself actually so invaluable.
Like you are actively hurting your chances of being able to
leave. They're going to want you here
forever. I don't know that her skills as
being healer like I mean, I think you're right.

(38:32):
If anything, her showing off, not showing off, her
demonstration of her skills and the actual results being overall
relatively favorable. I think that that would mean
that she would be someone valuable that that the Laird
would not want her to leave. And I think that like the show
even goes so far as to almost kind of imply that because she's

(38:57):
so good, they don't want her to leave.
But I feel like I don't know. I guess I wouldn't say I think
that's probably the case that ifshe is because she is the
healer, that they would not wanther to leave and it would hinder
her abilities to try to get backto the stones.
I didn't really see that as like, part of a hurdle in the
when I was reading it. But I do think that that made

(39:19):
her a valuable position in the castle.
And I think that probably earnedher a little bit of, like,
respect from the locals. Like Mistress Fitzgibbons
definitely respects her for that.
And she gains a little bit of a reputation for, like, being kind
and having people on her side because she helped them.
Yeah, I hadn't really kind of realized or thought that through

(39:41):
in that way, but I think it probably would have helped her
in place more than she would have realized.
And this was something that was different also is in the TV
show, we see that the surgery that she works out of she had
been before because they actually go to the castle, Leah
ruins her and Frank. So there's like some scenes
where she's having these like, intense kind of flashbacks.

(40:02):
Yeah, but we get that kind of like Jamie and Leary, like crush
scene. There's a time where they're
listening to a musical performance, which is important
because Jamie's translating the music for her.
It's about a man who slips through the stones, but he gets
back to his own time. So she she does find a kernel of

(40:23):
hope there. But she also sees Jamie and
Leary making out. And she, like, this is the first
time she feels like a little bitof, like, jealousy, but she
doesn't see it as jealousy. She just says, like, why do I
not like this? To a point where she is, like,
making jokes about him at dinner, which is, like, pretty

(40:44):
wild. Like, yeah, it's wild.
I think, I think in the book when Claire first sees them,
she's she's more like not necessarily jealous outwardly,
maybe like secretly she's already a little bit jealous.
But I think that she's really just missing like intimacy, you
know what I mean? Like she she feels really alone.

(41:06):
And I think that her she felt a little bit of like a tiny bit of
spark of connection with Jamie. And then to see him like making
out with this other girl, like it really just emphasizes to her
how alone she is and how hard itis for her to.
She sees all these hurdles in place that will prevent her from
getting back to Frank. And so I don't think that she's
jealous quite yet, but like, it is a moment where she is longing

(41:32):
and it may or may not be, like, laced very much with jealousy.
But yeah, the jokes were kind offunny to me because she, she
makes the comment about, oh, your lips seem bruised and was
it a horse? And he goes, oh, yeah, the horse
swung and biffed me. She goes, oh, you got to watch
out for those Phillies. And everyone's like the
Phillies. Why are you working with the
Phillies? And Murtaugh, like makes the

(41:53):
comment about like you, you know, he needs a woman, you
know, not a girl. And don't tease him like that.
But it was a funny scene. Super funny.
And we also get like, yeah, it'slike almost jealousy that or not
jealousy, but it's almost a reminder that she is also the
outsider that, like, people havelives here.

(42:14):
People have, like, connections. And the one person that she felt
like she had a connection with, he has deeper connections with
the people that actually live here.
So I think, yeah, it was just a reminder that she is not where
she's supposed to be. But Claire's making friends.
She makes a friend. Gayla's Duncan, who's the
fiscal's wife and kind of also ahealer in the village.
She gets one day, gets supplies from Gala's inside the village.

(42:39):
Dougal takes her down there and she sees a village boy who is
about to be punished by having either his ear or his, like,
hand cut off. And obviously it's her husband's
job to dole up the punishment. And she is like so appalled by
this. She's like, this is a little
boy, like, how could you be doing this?
And this is when Galis was like,oh, do you not have like

(42:59):
punishment in England? Because this she kind of slips
here where it's like she shouldn't be shocked by this
because the town's people aren'tshocked because this is the
norm. But she asks Gaylist to convince
her husband to like lessen the boy's punishment, which
lessening the punishment means getting his ear nailed to a

(43:19):
pillory. It's.
Better than getting your whole hand cut off.
Truly, truly, truly. It is.
It is lessened like, that's for sure.
But later that afternoon, when Jamie comes to collect Claire,
he's still against the pillory because she finds out that he
has to RIP himself off. And so this is the first time
Jamie and Claire kind of have this moment of teamwork where

(43:42):
he's. She says, I'm gonna create a
distraction if you can go and pull the nail out.
She pretends to faint and Jamie freeze the boys so.
That always cracked me up though, because she's like the
medicine woman. So she goes up and she's like
looking at it and she goes yes, reveal faint.
And I was like, why would you faint at blood?
And I mean. Yes, yes, that is actually like

(44:05):
a good gripe and grumble becauseit's like, I guess the villagers
wouldn't know that, but like if anybody knew anything of Claire,
they would know that that is fake because she deals with that
type of stuff all the time. Right.
And there is a little bit of like, foreshadowing here because
Claire is inside with Galis whenshe hears all of the people of

(44:28):
the village gathering and grumbling and upset because the
boy is about to be punished because he's been accused of
theft. So she's like, oh, there's this
like, mob against the boy. And so there is some future
foreshadowing there to another time when Claire's at Galas's
house. So there's a big gathering at
Castle Yuck where all the clansmen have to pledge their

(44:49):
allegiance to call him. And she's like, all the, you
know, men are going to be in theGreat Hall.
This is a perfect time for me toescape.
So she makes her escape. And the first thing that happens
is she bumps straight into Jamiein this the staples.
And he's like, sorry. Like, how far did you really

(45:09):
think you were going to get in the middle of the night with,
you know, kind of very little things to, like, protect you?
And so he's like, I'll take you back to the castle.
But on the way back, they get intercepted.
And they're like, oh, we'll takeyou, you, Jamie, to the oath
ceremony. And she's kind of confused at
what this means for him, which Itruly think that this was like,

(45:33):
I guess it shows that Jamie can like command a room and like
tell a good story is like quick,quick thinking and stuff like
that. But like, it is truly like so
anticlimactic in both the the book and the TV show because
they're like, Oh my gosh. If he pledges his allegiance,
that means that he'll be able tousurp Dougal, who has claimed to

(45:56):
the the throne of sorts When Column dies.
But Jamie's related to the Mackenzie clan, so he'll be able
to able to do this. And literally he just gives a
speech about how he'll be forever obedient to do Column.

(46:18):
And they're like, OK, sounds good, thank you.
Like they move on. I think the show does a like, a
little bit better where I think it's Murtagh who tells Claire
like, hey, here's the stakes. And he lays out in just a couple
of sentences, like, Oh, well, like, Dougal doesn't want him to

(46:40):
swear fealty to call him becausethen he's part of the Mackenzie
clan. And then he could potentially
lead, which Dougal wants to lead.
So like, that's why Dougal wouldn't want him to swear.
But like, you know, Column wouldwant him to swear, you know?
And so like, Murtaugh lays it out and he and it sort of shows
that Jamie is damned if he does,damned if he doesn't.
And Claire realizes that, like, he had been staying away for a

(47:02):
purpose and she kind of just messed, messed up Jamie's night.
And yeah, like you said, I thinkthe scene really is important to
show that Janie can command the audience and that he is clever
enough to to declare something that is like the right middle
growth, even though it didn't seem like there was going to be
any middle road to take. Like he manages to, like, say

(47:25):
the right thing that makes it makes everything safe.
But I do think that, like, thereis a lot of lead up to the
gathering and the oath swearing and then it's like, never
brought up again because mostly because we'd leave the
Mackenzie's away after this. You know, Jamie's not a
Mackenzie. But like, I do.
I do think that this is mostly to, like, show how Jamie is like

(47:46):
a good guy again. Yeah.
A good guy and that you're rightthat faced with like two options
that suck, he's able to find thethird solution that is better.
So a few days passed and Dougal tells Claire that she is heading
on the road with the men to collect the clans rents.

(48:06):
She's like, sweet, this will be an even better time to escape
than being stuck in this castle.And so they go village to
village. And in the evenings, after
they've collected all the rent, Dougal holds these, like, kind
of off the book meetings where he makes this dramatic speech in
Gallic. And he rips off Jamie's shirt

(48:26):
every single time to show the scarring on his back dirt.
Like, Claire is like, oh, yeah, he's doing shady business.
Like, doesn't almost think twiceabout it.
But then after this starts kind of happening, she starts to pick
up some of the language and and from her previous knowledge with
Frank, she puts it together thatDougal is a Jacobite and he's

(48:48):
collecting money for the uprising, which this I like did
a little bit of research on whatthe history is, but it's like
they wanted to restore the Houseof Stuart.
So that's like Bonnie Prince Charlie to the British throne
because it was currently held bythe House of Hanover.
I think she just feels bad for Jamie at this point.
I don't think. I guess she also learns like,

(49:09):
oh, shoot, these people that I'mlike starting to cut, like kind
of like are in a doomed uprisingthat kind of wipes out their
entire population of people. But but I think the main part is
that she feels bad for Jamie. Well, for me, I I must be very
poorly educated. I never really covered this

(49:31):
1700s in in Scotland in my history classes in school.
But yeah, the first time I read this book, I really didn't know
that much about the history or like issues between Scotland and
England as certainly not in thistime period.
So a lot of the like political machinations and goals of

(49:52):
different people in in this bookas well as in the next couple of
books. A lot of those kind of went over
my head, but I mean, the the long and short of it is that the
current person who's on the British throne, who is
technically a ruler of Scotland,those that person, King George,
it is not who the Scottish people really feel shouldn't be

(50:16):
on the throne. And so Claire knows because
she's from the future how that ultimately went.
And she is concerned that that is going to happen very soon in
the future of now where she is in the past.
So she is realizing that Dougal is collecting money for a

(50:37):
hopeful uprising and that she already knows the outcome too.
And I think you're right in thismoment, I don't think she's her.
Her main focus is still primarily to get back to the
stones, to go back to her own time.
But she is starting to, like, make friends and, you know, like
people here. And Jamie is being paraded

(50:57):
around by Dougal in these scenesbecause the British hurt Jamie
so badly. So Dougal is able to say, like,
look how bad the British hurt, you know, one of our own.
They suck. Like we, you know, what if the
Scots were, if the Scott, you know, someone that we really
chose and liked, Bonnie Prince Charlie was on the throne, the
English wouldn't be able to do such a thing, right?

(51:19):
So I think that like there is a lot of politics.
I would say like a medium amountof politics in this book because
Claire works to stay out of it. But then like in, I would just
say in subsequent books that canget really like, they're like,
yeah. They are in it.

(51:40):
And so I remember feeling that it like, especially in these
scenes when Dougal is collectingmoney for his cause, like, I
remember kind of, I don't want to say not caring about this,
but the first time I read it, I was like, yeah, yeah, OK,
whatever. And I think in the show, what's
interesting is that Claire, her first conclusion is that Dougal

(52:01):
is collecting money like for himself.
Like, she doesn't put it together that he is a Jacobite
until for like a little while, like from the start of the
episode to the end of the episode, something like that.
And she just thinks that like, yeah, yeah, I'll collect money
for column and for the Clan McKenzie and then I'm going to
line my own pockets too, Which Ithought was an interesting way.
Like, I mean, there wasn't really a a point to that.

(52:22):
And it had a very quick like payoff.
But like, I think that that tried to drive home a little bit
of the politics in a way that was kind of not helpful in the
show. You know what I mean?
Like she was like, I have this conclusion and then later she's
like, no, it's this, this is theanswer in the show.
And I was like, why are you evenpresenting multiple options?
Just present the real option anddon't make it so confusing.

(52:44):
Yeah, I wish like could you could say that about a lot of
things in this book because again, it's like over 800 pages.
There are some things that I'm like, you could just scrap this.
But I think why they showed thatwas because it just shows that
she thinks poorly of Dougal. That's true.
But the other part about this that I'll mention is that at

(53:05):
this point, she's, she doesn't care.
She's she knows she's in the future and she holds so much
information that could help these people.
But like at this point, she's not, she's not thinking like,
oh, I have information to like tell them to like help them or
whatever. Because she again is like kind
of she's trying to leave at thispoint fully, whereas like as the

(53:25):
book goes on, she starts kind ofsaying some ominous things about
their future. But at this point, she's just
like, I think in the book out orsorry, I think in the TV show at
one point she does say to Ned Gowen, like, I know that you're
collecting money, money for the Jacobites and by the way, you're
going to lose or something like that.

(53:47):
Like, don't ask me how I know, but you're going to lose.
And yeah, so that's just interesting.
But like at this point she doesn't care basically that or
she doesn't. It's not that she doesn't care
cuz she does care, but she's like not intervening in a way
that she potentially could. Well, and in that moment that
you just mentioned in the show, she says to the lawyer, Ned

(54:09):
Gowen, she says you're collecting money for A cause
that's that's doomed to fail. And she is saying and like we,
the audience who have the same knowledge that Claire does about
the future and we know how it fails.
Like we see that as her being like giving him a warning.
But he is like, well, that's your opinion.
And like, he just takes it as, yeah, you're just, you're like A

(54:31):
and. You're like a sympathizer.
Like he like respects, he respects her, but he's like,
that's just your opinion. Like I I'm a true blooded, you
know, Scots person. So yeah, yeah, the next part I
thought was interesting because we finally start to get into a
little bit of action this section of the book where where
they're like just traveling along and collecting the rents.

(54:52):
Like it is only two or three chapters, but and in the show it
I don't think it covers this. I don't even think it covers it
in the book. Like I don't understand why
Claire's not healing people as they travel around, especially
in the show it shows them standing.
Like just shows her standing around with her arms crossed and
being grumpy while dude was collecting money.
I was like, why aren't you? Why aren't you like healing the

(55:15):
locals and like collecting some of your own money or something.
But. That is.
That is such a good point though, because I always thought
that she went along to be the men's healers or healer, like if
they got hurt or if they got attacked or whatever.
But you're right. Why isn't she helping the
village people? Because like that's what the

(55:35):
Mackenzie like clan is supposed to do.
That's a really good. Point I mean in in the in the
show, Dougal does say that's hisreason for bringing.
Yes. He in the show, he shows up in
the surgery, he says you're coming with me, we're going to
go out to collect the rents, we're going to need a healer.
And I was like, why do you thinkyou're going to need a healer?
Whatever. Then she never heals anybody.

(55:56):
It's not relevant in the book. He comes to her and says, hey,
you're traveling with me becauseI'm going to ultimately take you
close to Fort William and then you know the British.
Yes, there can help you, right. Yeah.
And so like, that's the next part that happens in the book is
that Dougal takes Claire to meetup with the like, a Garrison
commander who it's not at Fort William, but like, he's nearby.

(56:20):
And it turns out that it's Blackjack Randall.
And so he, Randall is like, oh, yeah, I remember you, the woman
I assaulted in the woods. And he's trying to get
information out of her because he never figured out who she was
and what she was doing in the woods.
And he actually starts, he he like knocks the wind out of her.

(56:40):
He punches her in the stomach and he's trying to grill her and
she's not giving up any information.
And she's like kind of flabbergasted when he punches
her and Dougal intervenes and islike, hey, I'm taking her away.
Which I don't understand why Blackjack let him just like
intervene. Like he tried to kind of stop,

(57:00):
but Dougal was like, I'm taking her and she's the guest.
Of the Clan McKenna. Yes, yes.
I think he just kind of brazens it out a little bit.
But he he does tell Dougal does tell Claire that just because
Claire is a guest of the Klan, Mackenzie, that's not going to
be enough protection. And so he's like, what, what are

(57:20):
we going to do about this situation?
And. And it's to make her a Scott.
It's for her to marry because she's an English subject.
She'll always be a liability to them.
The English will always be, I guess, like trying to find her
or like bring her back to England.
And and so he's like, I can solve all of our problems.

(57:42):
You can marry Jamie. And like, I love.
I guess this is like a marriage of convenience trope.
But yeah, she is really upset. Obviously she is trying
everything to get out of this. I pulled a quote.
She literally, she says like, I'm not a virgin, maybe because

(58:07):
that was so important back in the day for the bride to be a
virgin. So she's like, maybe this will
stop them. And so she says, like, does it
bother you that I'm not a virgin?
We see this play out exactly in the show.
And he says, well, no, so long as it doesn't bother you that I
am. And she's like shook because

(58:27):
he's like a 20 something hottie.And he says, reckon one of us
should know what we're what they're doing, which is really,
really cute. Yeah, I will say I have not the
in a heterosexual romance, it's much more common for the for the
female main character to be the virgin.

(58:49):
And I will say I've read a few books where it's a male version.
Yeah, that's a that's a good, that's a good, that's a good
trope. That's a good trope.
Yeah, but I, yeah, I love that Claire basically is stuck here
because she can't just say, takeme to the rocks so that I can
travel forward in time. But she's like, doesn't see a
way out either. And so I would have liked a

(59:11):
little bit more personally, a conversation between Jamie and
Claire before they get married. Like there's I just feel like
they have a little bit more to hash out.
And in both the show and in the book, it's very much so like,
well, this is what you got to do, suck it up.
And then they're kind of like, well, OK, and then we just dive
right in. So I would have liked a little

(59:31):
bit more there, but it is sort of like a whirlwind like thing
for her protection. So they just have to kind of
dive into it. Yeah, like she protests a lot
and she's really upset, but she like, moves on pretty quick.
Like, like, yeah, I which I justI think it's because she she has
these like, feelings that she hasn't realized yet.

(59:52):
But but that's in every romance,right?
Where there's a marriage of convenience.
They're like, well, I tried. I guess now I have to get
married. Like, it's so funny.
But we get the iconic wedding scene.
Claire gets RIP roaring drunk and and fully dressed up in this
like beautiful dress. We see Jamie is in like full

(01:00:17):
Highland regalia, including likehis Fraser, like family Tarden
and Claire tries again and she says we but we still we can't
get married. I don't even know your full
name. And he goes James Alexander,
Malcolm Mackenzie Fraser and it's like it's very hero
heroine. It's it's very, very sweet.

(01:00:38):
And they get married in a small church and Claire is having
flashbacks because it happens toalso be the one that she married
Frank. And do you think this was like a
little too on the nose or do youthink that this was just another
way to show how she's still like, she's not in the right
time? She's done this before with her

(01:00:59):
her real husband. Well, I will point out that this
is the difference between the show and the book.
In the show, Frank and Claire are are just shown to be walking
along the road and then they stop in front of the registrar's
office and Frank is like, you wanna and she's like, great.
And then it shows them walking in.
We don't even see the wedding oranything.
And in the book, yes, yes. And in the book, the as as

(01:01:27):
Claire is kind of being marched up to this small Chapel, she
realizes it's the one that she had married Frank or will marry
Frank. Grandma starts to get confusing
here. But I think that this was, I
think that there's there's a lotof effort in like this chapter
and in the next 3 or 4 chapters that are surrounding her needing
to get married, the wedding. And then immediately after where

(01:01:49):
she's where Claire is really reflecting on what it means to
be married. And like, what are her feelings
about this new marriage to Jamieand in relationship to her own
marriage with Frank? Like she's she's doing a lot of
like ruminating and also trying to like not think about Frank
because she's in this situation that she doesn't have a lot of
control over where she had to just marry Jamie.

(01:02:11):
And when she feels even just a spark of like OK or happy or
enjoyment with Jamie, she's trying to balance whether or not
she should feel guilty about that.
So I think I think that this thefact that they get that she gets
married twice in the same church, like I think that's just
the start of all of these feelings that like it's sort of

(01:02:32):
is like an overlap. And I think that there's also
multiple moments in this book and in future books where I
think Diana Gabaldon just reallydoes a good job, like making
sure that coincidences, like is it a coincidence or is it
foreshadowing or is it like meant to happen this way?
And I think this is just kind ofone of those moments where where

(01:02:55):
Claire is able to kind of like lay her over two parts of her
live, like her two lives together, like nest together.
And I thought it was kind of, I don't know.
I liked it. It didn't bother me that the
show did it differently, but like it wasn't a huge deal in
the book. It was just like the start of
her ruminating on all of this. I will say I love that in the

(01:03:16):
book and in the show, the vows are like treated really like
seriously and like sacredly. And then, like even the after
they say their vows, there's thewhole like, you are blood of my
blood, bone of my bone. And that does become something
that they really hold on to whenlike repeat to each other.
So I think that even though Claire's RIP roaring drunk and

(01:03:39):
even though she doesn't really want to be getting married, she
does take the time to like, enjoy and be present in this
important moment. You know what I mean?
Yeah. And I think the other thing that
like modern, like us, like present day people maybe don't

(01:04:00):
get about this is that like backthen, like marriage, not that
it's flippant now, but it's likeback then, it's like you only
had like kind of your word and like marriage was so like sacred
and stuff like that. That I, I do think, and probably
even like in the 40s, like Claire as well.
But I, I think that Jamie like takes it like super, super
seriously because that's what people did back then.

(01:04:23):
So they say their vows in Gaelicand the priest cuts their
wrists. They do like the binding
ceremony and then they head upstairs to consummate the
marriage. And there's always that thing
where it's like, well, since we don't love each other, like we
don't have to do this. But Dougal's like, you guys have
to compensate the marriage because otherwise you can like

(01:04:45):
annul it. So he's like, I better know that
you guys had sex. And they head up to like, the,
their room in the inn and Claire's kind of nervous and
they start talking about their family and Frank and like, tons
of just more intimate details about their lives.

(01:05:06):
And Jamie gives Claire a strand of pearls from his mom.
And her wedding ring was his dad's ring, which was very
different from the TV show. Which one did you prefer?
Cuz like, I like the key it's it's cheesy, but I like the key
ring from the show. And it's funny that I feel like

(01:05:29):
the first time I read this, I didn't even clock that it was
like different. But so many fans were so upset
that they changed such a a specific detail because later on
she gets a ring with like the Highland lace pattern.
But yeah, I was like, I like thekey part almost better than the.

(01:05:51):
Highland lace for me, I in the book, it makes total sense
because they have to get marriedso quickly and it wasn't like
for planned. And so Jamie just uses one of
the rings, you know, there was his father's ring that he
himself wears and he just uses that sort of as a temporary
placeholder. And then in the book, he later

(01:06:15):
as soon as he can like makes arrangements and goes and gets
her a ring that is pretty and that he spent money on and that
he's happy with, you know. And so I think that that is, it
makes total sense in the show. I think that that also makes
total sense for him, You know, Jamie and the show very
deliberately says, OK, I have a couple requirements.

(01:06:35):
It has to be done by a priest cause Jamie's like, I only
intend to get married once and he's religious.
So he's like, I want a priest todo it.
We need to find a nice dress forClaire.
Like he wanted this to be special for Claire, even though
Claire was sort of being forced to into this plan.
She didn't want to be. And then he's and then he
insists on getting a ring. And I think the show did a nice
job for Jamie to be thinking about the ring and for him to be

(01:06:59):
planning on what to do for it. And I think that in the show, he
later tells Claire, yeah, I madethis, you know, this ring was
made out of a key from Lally Brock because you're the late,
you know, by marrying me, you'd become the lady.
And I think I wanted you to havesome of Lally Brock with you.
So I think that like, both of the show and the book makes
sense. It didn't anger me.

(01:07:20):
And I thought, like you said, it's it's kind of sweet that he
took a key and, like, had it made into a ring.
I don't think the ring that she wears in the show is especially
pretty. No.
It gets so ugly. That looks like a point.
It looks like a key. Yeah.
It's like Peter with like a mark.
I was like, OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:07:42):
It looks like a key that was made into a ring.
But yeah, but I like that uniqueness.
I also think at this point she'sstill I don't think she
understands also that she and becomes lady.
I agree of Lolly Brooks. So like I I think and he in the
show doesn't tell her that it's a key.
He just right gives her this. I also kind of like because he

(01:08:04):
is kind of like a penniless. He has a price on his head.
So he like been accused of killing someone.
We find out later that it was actually Randall, but, like,
he's like a penniless horse trainer, like, kind of like
laborer. So I kind of liked that it was.
I guess that makes sense that itwas like an heirloom, too.
But like, yeah, I thought that it just was fitting for him.

(01:08:27):
But they have sex for the first time, I guess, for Jamie's first
time. Again, the show did such a good
job of this. They have been praised so highly
for making not only their sex scenes just done well.
Like I think that this was one of the first examples of a
romance novel that was like taken seriously because I feel

(01:08:48):
like so many romance novels, like they get the like passion
flicks treatment and this was like full budget and just, yeah,
just again, taken so seriously. So the first time they kind of
have like rushed sex because because it's like it's like
passionate. Like they're so they are so
attracted to each other that it's like a frenzy.

(01:09:09):
And then the second time, because they've talked more and
they've kind of had these softermoments, it's more like they are
making love. And then it's so funny because
Jamie, of course, how would he know?
What would he? Why would he know?
He the only examples of sex thathe has right now is animals and
horses. And she teaches him what a

(01:09:31):
blowjob is and he is shook to his core.
I will say in the book, Claire admits that she has never
received oral, but in the show we see Frank go down on Claire
like in episode 1. So that is just like a minor
thing. And I kind of, it's such a minor

(01:09:54):
thing. It didn't bother me at all to
like see Frank go down on Claire.
But in the book Claire is like, oh, I haven't done everything.
Like she's not this like super. I've been around the block a
million times, right? She's like, there's still new
things that like. Jamie and I.
Right. And so I, I felt like there was
like a very slight moment there where I was like, oh, they could

(01:10:14):
have kept that in the show, but like, it's fine.
That's another thing. That's a really, really good
point. And then also it's just like, I
feel like, especially back then,it's like women weren't
receiving oral sex on The Reg. So it's like, I feel like it was
it, it was something that Jamie was different because he liked
going down on it. Like it was like something that

(01:10:35):
also women were like, oh, he's like our our dream guy because
he. Cares about my pleasure, yeah.
Exactly. Yeah.
And when and when Claire is ableto have an orgasm with Jamie, he
is startled. But then and he said, oh, yeah,
the invite, Jamie says the advice that I got from the dudes

(01:10:58):
I've been travelling with, they're like, women don't like
it. And so he, she says to him,
she's like, well, if you do a good job, if you're a good lover
and like that kind of sets the tone for their sex life kind of
going forward, that he is alwaysdetermined to like make her come
and enjoy it. And I think that that also sets
Jamie apart because absolutely, you know, the advice he was

(01:11:21):
getting from the other men of the era was like, eh, you just
get in there, you do your thing and.
Was was not good. I at this point was like, fuck
Frank. Like no need to go back to the
stones. I was actually shocked when like
the next, you know? Couple days she does.
Try to go back to the Stones. What did How did you feel about

(01:11:43):
Frank at this point? Like, did you care that he was
like, in the show, we see him like, 'cause OK, so like when I
read the books, I was like, because we get only Claire's
POV. We don't know that Frank is like
devastated. I, I will say I did have some
sympathy, obviously, for him in the the TV show because we see

(01:12:04):
him and his frantic search for Claire.
But at this point, I'm like, Oh my God, who needs to go back to
the 1940s? Like just stay here.
I think at this point, Claire, Claire acknowledges to herself
that she is attracted to Jamie. She has a, you know, she enjoys
the sex that she's having with Jamie, partially because she's

(01:12:26):
been lonely and she's been, you know, hasn't had any intimacy
for a long time. And I think she does have a real
connection to Jamie. I think at this point when they
get married, she views Jamie as a friend.
And I think that she goes into the whole wedding and marriage
with Jamie feeling like it is required because she has to do

(01:12:46):
this for her own safety. But she feels like she's kind of
she intends to leave Jamie. She still intends to go back to
Frank. And I think at this point, she
can acknowledge that she has lust for Jamie and she
acknowledges that she has friendship for Jamie.
But I think she still views Frank as like the love of her
life and is still intending on going back to Frank.

(01:13:07):
So, you know, my feelings about Frank is I definitely have
sympathy toward him for losing his wife in such a big
mysterious way. But like, I really appreciated
that the book and the show show Claire kind of feeling guilty
and feeling torn and like in this episode at the end of the
wedding. And then like what happens after

(01:13:29):
the wedding, the show ends beautifully with Claire sitting
and looking at her hands and shehas Frank's wedding ring on one
hand and and her new Jamie wedding ring on the other.
And it's like you can just really see how Claire is torn
between both. And I think that the show and
the book do I would have felt I,I think we only see Frank for

(01:13:50):
like 2 chapters at the start. I really wish we would have had
a little bit more time together with Claire and Frank to feel
like Frank is someone we should root for.
But like, because you're right, in a lot of ways, it's very much
so that we've had a lot of chance to see JB and we feel
like, well, obviously she's going to, you know, where we

(01:14:10):
know the structure of a romance,she's going to pick Jamie.
But like, it's yeah, I, I understand how she feels so torn
at this point in the story. And I could understand how she
just felt so torn. And like, I felt bad for Frank,
but I didn't want her to go backto Frank because I definitely
was more invested in Jamie. Totally, totally.

(01:14:30):
I like how you mentioned the show part because, yeah, she
actually the next morning, like shakes out her dress because she
had taken the Frank's ring off. And then she shakes out the
dress to like pack up and it falls out of the dress and rolls
on the floor. And she's like, Oh my God.
Like, I like, I kind of not forgot, but like it's like
forgot temporarily. Like kind of was, was acting in

(01:14:53):
the present. And then she was like, Oh my
God, I forgot about this. Then she puts it on and she's
like looking at the two symbols.And Jamie, I feel like, is also
really patient with her because she continues to wear the rings
and he doesn't really necessarily like, he's very
secure in that way. Well, I think that I think that
Jamie really he from Jamie's perspective, Claire is a widow.

(01:15:17):
Like, why would she be not with her husband?
It must be because her husband is dead.
And so and also Claire is like crying over Frank, you know, And
so Jamie's perspective is this is a woman who has loved before.
I want to respect the fact that she has had a life before me,
that she has had a love before me that like, you know, I think

(01:15:40):
that Jamie is very kind of wise to be thinking, well, this is a
wedding. You've already been through a
wedding. You've already been through a
marriage. Like inevitably you're going to
be thinking about your first husband when you're going
through a second marriage. And so I think that Jamie is
probably inherently jealous, youknow, like we're all human.
But also I think that he worked so hard to to like allow Claire

(01:16:03):
to have her space. And even if Claire had been
totally over Frank, like the some of those feelings would
come up with it around a weddingand like the first time she's
with somebody who's not her husband.
So I felt like Jamie really handled this super well to give
to give her her space. And in the book like this leads

(01:16:27):
into the next couple of like twoor three chapters is them just
kind of like traveling around, having sex left and right and
being like, we're going to go fishing.
They go and have sex. We're going to go get water.
They go and have sex. And it's like, it's, it's kind
of it's very much so like a honeymoon moment in the book.
It it, there's like a big lead up to the wedding and then

(01:16:49):
there's like this slight low where Claire and Jamie are kind
of just in this bubble and you have a little bit of breathing
room before more action starts. Totally, totally.
Yeah. I love these chapters.
We get the Seymour, Hugh Monroe,which is like Jamie's friend
who's like a beggar approaches them like twice.

(01:17:10):
He has like some information, wesee him gift the dragonfly and
amber stone to her and on one oftheir adventures going to get
water a group of English deserters attack them and like
while they're having sex one of them tries to rape Claire and

(01:17:31):
she kills him because she's beenlearning how to use a Dirk.
This is the first time like she's had to really hurt someone
like this. Eventually at the end of the
book, she's killed multiple men.She she really cares what that.
Yeah, I think cuz of his age. The young guard she kills at the
very end. But yeah, I think like, it's

(01:17:51):
just also setting in for her that it's like, if this is kind
of what her life would be like, They they don't have like, there
will always be like kind of threats of danger just because
they live in such like an unstable time.
But Jamie is looking to meet this guy who says that he has
information about the crime thatJamie's accused of.

(01:18:15):
So he is like, Claire, you wait here while we go because this
guy could be dangerous. And while she's waiting, she
realizes she's really close to Craig Nadun.
She sees it in the distance and she's she fucking, she sprints.
She is so frantic she almost drowns.
She is just this is her like shesees this kind of as like her

(01:18:38):
one chance to get away. But as she's heading up pregnant
done, she gets caught by the English and she gets taken to
the Fort William prison. We don't see this, but later we
learned that Horrocks tells Jamie that it was Randall who
shot the Sergeant. And Jamie's like, oh fact,

(01:18:59):
that's probably won't won't takethe price off my head because
he. Can't he can't say right one we
can't blame like a respected captain of the Red Coats to be
like, well, he was the one who shot this other red coat like.
It's like he would have no leg to stand on.
He is, you know, been to jail multiple times for like multiple

(01:19:21):
crimes at this point. But when Claire gets to Fort
William, of course, Captain Randall's there and he is.
He is like hell bent on figuringout again why she is there.
She remembers the conversation that Frank had with Reverend
Wakefield about Captain Randall being a spy for the Duke of

(01:19:44):
Sandringham. So she alludes that she is also
a spy, but he doesn't believe her and he like attacks her,
tries to rape her. And thank goodness Jamie flies
in the window with a pistol, which I really liked in the show
that we get how he gets there. It's very, very exciting.

(01:20:06):
But obviously we don't know thatbecause it's just Claire's first
person POV here. But when he when he arrives with
the pistol, he shoots it, but itit's empty.
So the threat of him shooting the gun was enough to startle.
Captain Randall and Jamie and Claire are able to escape, but

(01:20:31):
Claire's like, Oh my God, I cannot believe that you came all
the way to save me with basically no weapons.
So. This was really well done high
tension moment in the book and in the show.
The show actually like makes this a cliffhanger of an episode
where she is like captured and then taken and she is trying to

(01:20:53):
bluff her way through with Randall.
But then like right when she's being attacked, the show ends
with Jamie being like, take yourhands off of my wife.
So it's definitely a tense, highaction moment in the show, Anne
in the book. And the when you, the reader or

(01:21:13):
viewer, like realize that Jamie has just left his way in and he
had an unloaded gun, like it really just like sort of
retroactively even ramps that tension up even more.
But the I mean, I also understand the after effect of
this because after Jamie, you know, spirits Claire away like

(01:21:34):
he is mad that she didn't obey him and stay put and put
everybody in danger like he had to come rescue her.
But then Claire is also mad at Jamie for leaving her behind and
not taking her along to, like, meet the, you know, the guy who
might have that information. And she's also like, kind of all
shook up as she has been throughthe whole book.
And so even though Jamie and Claire are able to apologize to

(01:21:57):
each other and kind of resolve and forgive their argument and
resolve the fact that, you know,neither of them really listen to
the other person, when Jamie gets if that gets Claire back
with all the other men, the men are ignoring her and shunning
her. And it's because she put all of
them in danger. And he explains that if she had
been a man like that, there would have been repercussions.

(01:22:19):
And because he's her husband, hehas to give her the
repercussions. And so he intends to give Claire
a beating, AKA a spanking with his belt.
This is hard to read, I think, as a a contemporary person and,
and like, you know, I, I do understand that like, like Jamie

(01:22:40):
kind of emphasizes that, like he's like, I understand that you
know that, that you like what you've been up, right.
And like he's like, I get that he's like, but you don't know
it. Like you know something better
after you've had it kind of beaten into you.
I think that this was a really important scene in the book and
therefore could not have been left out of the show.

(01:23:03):
And I didn't do any research to find out if if, if fans didn't
like it, like people who never read the book.
But yeah, I, I think it really is hard to kind of justify
because Jamie has been this like, really great, perfect kind
of guy. And then he comes along and is
like, well, I'm punishing you and you have to take it.
And Claire does have to take it.And it is kind of resolved

(01:23:26):
afterwards. They, they kind of like talk
things out and, you know, come to some conclusions about it.
But like, it's a tough scene to read as a contemporary person.
100% agree. This might be a hot take but I
actually liked it. So I actually, I'm, I'm not
actually like a super historicalromance reader because when you

(01:23:50):
bring a 2024 lens to a lot of the historical books where women
have like no rights and the men like treat them like shit or
like whatever, or just have likearchaic views of women.
You're like, how can you like you really have to suspend a lot
of I don't know what that's saying is suspend a lot.
Suspend your disbelief. Yes, suspend your disbelief to

(01:24:11):
like really get into the into the book.
That being said, Jamie up until this point is basically actually
the out like Outlander in his own time.
He is acting like a not of a manof that time.
So I liked this reminder that heis a man of 1743 or whatever and

(01:24:35):
this is what he knows because his parents, this is how
everyone does things around here.
So I think that makes a lot of sense.
And when he does apologize and they do make up, he says, I want
to forge our own path. Like I don't want to just do
what every couple does and what every husband does to their
wife. And it is really hard to read,

(01:24:55):
but I I thought it was like necessary because I was like, if
he didn't do stuff like this occasionally we would we would
think that this is fake. And I think it makes the
character way and the book way more authentic.
I yeah, I don't disagree with you.
I think that you're right. You make a lot of good points
about the viewpoint that Jamie has from the time that he's from

(01:25:18):
and his perspective about how I think that Jamie is like
exquisitely in touch with the people around him.
He understands a lot of nuance in like group dynamics.
He understands, you know, like for the gathering and the oath
swearing, he understands how to find that middle ground, to kind
of get his own way and also satisfy and make sure that he's

(01:25:40):
like staying safe. And I think that in this
situation, he's realizing like Claire's sentiment of, you know,
from her perspective, she didn'trealize she was doing something
wrong. He says to her, I think you must
come from a place where there's not that much violence or you're
you have the freedom to kind of make your own decisions, but
like you're not in that place anymore.

(01:26:01):
And I think that he works well to understand what the men that
they're travelling with, what they need out of this situation,
AKA Claire needs to be under control of, you know, the man
needs to be controlling her and she needs to know she's done
wrong. And I think that he navigates
that situation really well. I think that the only tiny bit

(01:26:22):
that maybe people were upset with is the whole like, well, I
didn't say I wasn't gonna enjoy.It and she.
And she, she calls him like a sadist.
And he kind of like essentially.Yeah.
So I think like, maybe people could have gotten a little bit
more behind it if, like, JB was like, I really don't wanna do
this. I don't like it.

(01:26:43):
But like, the fact that there's a little bit of like a yeah.
And I kind of liked it like it. That almost changes the tone of
things a little bit. But I agree with what you're
saying. You have to, you have to
acknowledge like who this personis and where, when, when in time
they're coming from. Yeah, totally.
Because then it kind of seems like it's kind of a kink for
him, which again, there's nothing wrong with that, but

(01:27:03):
then the person receiving it isn't consenting, so then it's
kind of weird, so. And like, it never comes up
again. So it's not really a kink.
It's just this moment depending.Like, yeah, I like, I liked it.
Yeah, I, I, when I was doing my Internet investigation, people
did say that like also in the early 90s, this I guess maybe

(01:27:26):
spanking was like a very common like thing that was like
included in books. So I, I wonder if she, if she
actually didn't even see it. She just put it in as like kind
of like, not like a selling point, but like a, a thing that,
yeah, a popularity thing. So I don't know.
And. I'm not sure.

(01:27:47):
But they do make amends and thenthey have that crazy sex scene.
I like didn't love it. It's actually one that I like
really don't like in the TV showwhere she's like holding the
knife up to his like neck, it seems, and then like is they're
having sex, she's on top. But like she kind of is like

(01:28:08):
seems to be like like continuously having sex with
him. But like, I don't know, it's
kind of like to me weird, but. I agree in the book the in the
book the two of them have like after Jamie rescues Claire they
all are are working to head backto Castle Leoch.
And so it's not until they get back to the castle and then they

(01:28:31):
have a big discussion because inthe book, this is when Jamie
goes off to find the ring that like her permanent, her real
ring. And so Claire is concerned or
wondering or worrying about whether or not he's going to go
find Leary. They have this whole big
discussion and it's sort of an argument.
And like they're still kind of Claire still kind of trying to

(01:28:51):
like get past a little bit this whole like stinking situation.
And so they really talk it all out and they have intense words.
And then he's like, no, like, I like I I'm into you and like,
just show it. And they both declare that
they're like being faithful to the other person.
There's no you will stray from my bed.

(01:29:11):
Like that's when there's this intense sex scene.
And then the book is just described as sort of like they
are intensely like making up after having this intense
discussion. Whereas in the show, this is
when Claire like it's threatening him if you ever put
a hand on me again. And so it's sort of like a like
they're in the middle of having sex while she's also threatening

(01:29:32):
him. And it's like, it was a little
weird for me. I think it could have been done
more like the book where there'sintensity and then resolution
with the sex. But in the show, they like put
those together. And I didn't like that.
And it was probably a time thingor like whatever.
But yeah, didn't love how it wasdepicted.
But yeah. And then we get like life moves

(01:29:53):
on at the castle. We get like some some side plod.
Stegall's wife dies. We get some more suspicion from
Gaylis that Claire is like, they're kind of frenemies and
she's suspicious of who Claire is and her husband chokes and
dies at a dinner. Galas's husband.

(01:30:15):
Galas's husband chokes and dies.Also, Claire finds an I'll wish.
Under her bed. Yeah, at this point, Well, yeah,
yes, that Galis sold to to Leary, which is really funny.
And the Duke of Sandra Ham is visiting Castlelia, so Jamie
goes on a hunt with him. And this is literally my least

(01:30:36):
favorite part of the book and the TV show.
I find it so boring and just like like I guess the the the
realization that Galis is from the future is really exciting,
but the whole fucking witch the trial is so boring to me.
Really kind of Fast forward through it when I do my rewatch.

(01:30:57):
OK, well then let me tell you what happens.
Yes, there's yours. Yes, OK.
So so in the book, the Duke of Sandringham has showed up and
Jamie wants to try to get the Duke of Sandringham to like,
advocate for him to clear his name.
So Jamie and the Duke are off hunting and he warns Jamie warns

(01:31:18):
Claire to not hang out with galas because Galas is kind of
suspicious and her whole husbandjust died yadda yadda.
Jamie is cognizant of the fact that people are suspicious of
Galas but Claire is tricked to go to see Galas and then when
the authority show up they're like Galas is a witch.
Oh and you too, you're here you got we'll take it.

(01:31:39):
So the two women are thrown intothe thieves hole in the village
and a witch trial begins. There is a lot of accusations
that are being brought forth in the book.
It's much more like accusing gaylist, accusing gay list,
accusing gay list. And then like one or two people,
they're like, oh, yeah, Claire too in.

(01:31:59):
But Claire's there like she's still in danger.
But like, it's kind of more of agala show.
In the show, they're sort of like equal number of people who
are coming forward for both Claire and Gay list, some of
which are very like outlandishly, like I, you know,
accusing either of them of wild things.
But there are a couple of moments that have been like sewn

(01:32:21):
throughout the show that are brought up like there's a moment
when Leary shows up in the in the show where Leary shows up
and says, oh, Claire sold me a love potion, which is not in the
book. And there was a moment like way
early on when Claire was just trying to escape the castle Lyac
and she was like, yeah, here, sprinkle this around Jamie and

(01:32:44):
you'll you know, and so. It was like the dried dung or.
Whatever. Yeah.
It was just something that Claire was like, Claire was just
trying to get Leary, like, away from her so Claire could try to
escape. And then Leary comes along and
it's like she tried to give me alove version.
She's a witch. And then there had been this
moment when they were travellingand like, they're they Claire
maybe saw the loughness monster.I don't think it was really a

(01:33:06):
loughness. There's like a moment there.
It's not relevant. It's not relevant.
But then there was also a momentin the show where this, like,
little boy locally had eaten something that was poisonous,
But like, all of the people thought that he was possessed.
And so like, Father Vine was trying to.
Yeah, trying to like, exorcise the demons out of this child.

(01:33:28):
And she was like, he's poisoned and she gives him the antidote
and he lives. But like that, that was an
insult to Father Bane because she, like, disrespected the Turk
or something. So Father Bane speaks up against
Claire. Here's the thing.
In the show, Claire, like Lyra is like, oh, she gave me a left
potion. And then the the head person's

(01:33:48):
like, Claire, didn't you do this?
And Claire's like, well, yeah, but it wasn't.
And I was like, say nothing, saynothing.
Just say, well, it's just like, that didn't happen.
And then it's like her word against your word like, anyway,
so the the show is definitely like really high tension
throughout this whole scene because Claire and Giles are
really in danger of being calledwitches and accused him tried

(01:34:13):
and guilty. Ned Gowen is the lawyer from
earlier in the show. He shows up and he's trying to
advocate for both of them. I, I really liked how they used
his character in the show. In the book, he just like
filibusters the whole time and just drones on and on and on and
makes people bored and thereforereduces the tension.
And in the show, he, like, cleverly twists things that

(01:34:35):
people say to, to, like, kind oflower the tension but also show
that, like, Claire might be innocent.
So ultimately, in both the show and the book, Giles steps it up
and says, I'm a witch. I bewitched Claire.
She is not a witch. I just was making her do my
bidding. And there is a reveal that Gales

(01:34:58):
is pregnant with, actually, we know Dougal's child.
And in the show, she like, rips open her dress and shows that
she's pregnant and is like, thisis the devil's baby.
And it basically is riling up the mob so much that everyone
just like turns on Galis essentially because she's I'm a

(01:35:21):
witch. I'm a witch.
And Claire and Jamie are able. Jamie has shown up in just the
nick of time and he manages to like rescue Claire and spirit
her way. But I was a little annoyed in
the show because there's a lot of sort of reveals where Galis
and Claire are talking during the witch trial and sort of like
in the thieves hole. And so it like Galis reveals

(01:35:42):
that she's pregnant with Dougal's son.
But like in the show, they'd already done that earlier.
And like, she reveals that she'slike a Jacobite who's helping
divert money for the cause 'cause she's also wanting Bonnie
Prince Charlie to, you know? But like that, like, there's
multiple things that in the book, like our revelations
declare that in the show we'd already known about.

(01:36:04):
So I just felt like that moment was kind of interesting.
And it becomes obvious to us, the viewer and also to Claire
that Gaylis is a time traveller because of how Gaylis, like,
kind of uses some of her language.
And because we see that Gaylis has a smallpox vaccination scar

(01:36:27):
on her upper arm. And Claire's like, that's the
same mark I have. Everybody got that.
If you were like, after they started administering it in
like, the early 1920s. So she realizes that if Gaylis
has that, she must have also been a time traveller.
And in the show, Galis confirms this on the stand right before
she, like, rips open her clothes.

(01:36:47):
And she says, yeah, I came from 1968.
They don't have any opportunity to discuss this because she's a
witch and hauled away. And Claire is rescued by Jamie.
But it is a very dramatic scene in both book and show.
And I, I feel like this is one of the things that has stuck
with me the most, both from the show and book.

(01:37:07):
So it kind of makes me sad that you're like, yeah, just Fast
forward. I just like didn't.
I didn't like how the trial was depicted.
And then I think you're right that like so many of the reveals
that make the book trial interesting was depicted like
when Claire finds out she's pregnant because she was like

(01:37:29):
rolling around on the ground anddoing like a little seance.
Like those were pieces that we like already knew.
And then but the smallpox thing was obviously very, very
interesting because also Claire,again, she's like, am I the only
time traveler ever? And then she realizes there is
another time traveler. But before she gets to talk to

(01:37:49):
her and figure out how they get back to the stones and like, did
did she intentionally come back and like, or did she slip
through? Like what happened?
She is whisked away and clear atthis point, I'm pretty sure
believes she has died, like has been burned at the stake.
But we know actually Dougal likeactually saves her because of

(01:38:10):
the kid and because she's pregnant and she gets she gets
like shipped away. Well, so in the show that one of
the like 2 judges or magistratesor whoever they are, like the
one is like pounding his gavel and he's like stop as they're
all like carrying her out like she's with child.
And so like that shouldn't have really, I guess been like a

(01:38:31):
huge, huge reveal later on in the show when Dougal says later
in the show, Dougal says, oh, she's dead.
But like they allowed her to bear the child and Dougal
arranged for the child who is his son to go.
You know, he's placed out with afamily or whatever.
And so the viewers at the end ofSeason 1 believe that Galis is

(01:38:52):
dead. But yeah, Jamie managed to get
to Claire in just the very nick of time when she is literally,
like, she's been like, that's fully stripped.
But like, her breasts are revealed as they are, like,
whipping her back or something with a cane or something.
And so he swoops in and manages to rescue her, rides off, and

(01:39:13):
he's kind of like, tending to her wounds.
Claire is kind of in shock from just going through this trial.
And he finally looks to her and he says, OK, listen, like, like,
I'm with you. You have my protection.
I I argue with. Yeah, I won't.
Burn you. But are you fake?
But you have to. Answer me.
Yeah. And then this is when Claire
finally kind of reaches her breaking point and she

(01:39:35):
officially confesses to Jamie. And she says, I, I might as well
be a witch because I'm from the future.
And she like lays it all out andbecause she and Jamie had like
kind of agreed when they first got married, like they they
said, look, there's room for secrets in our marriage between
us, but there's not room for a lies.

(01:39:56):
So he puts together everything he knows about her and the fact
that he basically is already in love with her and the fact that
she is agreed to honesty and he chooses to believe everything
that she's telling him even though it's so far fetched.
Yeah. And like, yeah, she's at, she's
at her breaking point. But she also was like, how also

(01:40:16):
do I explain myself here? Like I kind of like I like cuz I
like this person. Like I actually can't lie.
So I kind of have to believe thetruth.
And like also because he like believes he like again, he's
like a modern man. So he like kind of believed in
the changelings, but like, whichwas a scene earlier, but like
also kind of was like, oh, thoseare like the like, I'm really

(01:40:38):
educated. Those are kind of like old, like
villager, like folklore and stuff like that.
So he like, I feel like there isa point where she's like, yeah,
he like he could maybe believe this because there's some other
things, but he's so understanding.
And he's like, I'm going to takeyou to Craig Nodunn so you can
return to your own time. And she kind of makes peace with

(01:41:02):
that. She like tries to warn him about
things that happen in the upcoming years.
And he takes her to the stones and he leaves her.
He like is he's like, I'm gonna leave you here to like, make
make your decision, but also do the like passage passing through
time without me here. And they're both obviously so

(01:41:23):
upset and heartbroken. And like, we kind of talked
about like, there's only kind ofa decision, like the the options
are bleak here. But after much reflection from
Claire, she decides that she wants to commit to living in
1743 with Jamie. And she goes and finds him and

(01:41:45):
says we should. Well, he says, I'm going to take
you home to Lolly Brock. And this is really like the
turning point in the book because this entire time she's
been trying to get back to Frank.
And then she makes the decision,which is like wild, like, I
don't know, crazy. I remember the first time
reading this and watching it just being like this kind of

(01:42:07):
sequence here is just so well written and so so fun to read.
And it's really moving because Jamie, like tells Claire how
it's the hardest thing he ever did to try to take her to the
stones. And he he wanted her to be the
safest and to be the happiest. And he was willing to let her go
because he loved her. And Claire really has to reflect

(01:42:30):
and she decides and allows her heart to make this decision like
she has been. Like you said, it's a perfect
turning point of the book because she finally acknowledges
that she also has feelings for Jamie and that those are strong
enough to give up an entire life.
And we finally see that her goals turn from getting away and

(01:42:51):
getting back to Frank to now, like reorienting to Jamie and
what she can do to live at with him in this time.
And I think it's like a beautiful turning point.
And I think it's a beautiful moment where the two of them are
acknowledging how much, how muchthey feel for the other person.
They had to Jamie's estate. It's like fun because she starts

(01:43:15):
because now the secret's out that she can tell him more about
the future and stuff like that. So we got some fun conversations
here. They head back to Jamie's estate
and they are met with Jenny, hissister, who is really upset.
She thinks that Jamie is dead and Jamie thinks that her son is

(01:43:35):
a bastard son and the father is Randall, be Captain Randall,
because the last time he saw heryears ago, she was about to be
like raped. That's why he got flogged.
He thinks that she bore his child and that out of marriage
and that it was by his like, mortal enemy.

(01:43:58):
They're fighting, they're squabbling, but her real husband
and the father of her child arrives and it's Ian who is a
friend of Jamie's and now his brother-in-law.
Life here is good. Like I think I feel like they
like feel like they're actually gonna like kind of settle into
life here. They're the Laird and lady of

(01:44:20):
Lolly Brook. They're getting ready for
winter, so they're doing all theharvesting stuff.
We have a scene where Jamie tells Claire that like they tell
each other that they love each other for the first time.
Claire says like, I was born foryou, which is like kind of an
insane turnaround time because like, she was running to Frank

(01:44:40):
and this just really shows you how she like truly feels.
Right. And Jenny and Claire are a
little bit like tentative of each other, but they do kind of
become friends when Claire helpsJenny through her labor, she was
pregnant when they arrived and she gives birth to a baby girl.

(01:45:01):
These couple chapters are like are another, I don't want to say
slow spot, but we've just had all of the tension with like the
witch trials and stuff. And then Claire makes this big
pivotal decision. And so now she there's, you
know, there's action happening while they're at Alley Rock.
And like Jamie and Jenny have toyou'll become reacquainted and

(01:45:22):
there's reconciliation and stuffthat has to happen.
But like Claire is getting a glimpse of how their life could
potentially be together and she finds it very appealing.
And Jamie like quickly settles into they they all just easily
like Jamie and Claire fit in with Jenny and Ian and the

(01:45:43):
running of things. And so it's like kind of a quiet
couple of chapters while we are seeing day-to-day life at Lally
Brock in a way that's like couldbe considered boring, but is
really touching, I think. And it, it's like the the goal,
right? Like their goal is to ultimately
live this way and be happy. And the only thing that is

(01:46:06):
preventing that is the fact thatJamie is still like a wanted
man. He still has this price on his
head. And like, that is of course
going to be the problem that leads to the next that leads to
the interruption. Yeah, yeah.
Which is where the watch ambushes Jamie and Ian.
Ian's able to return back to thestate and tell Jenny and Claire,

(01:46:30):
but Jamie's captured because he was betrayed by a tenant who is
like was like alcoholic and abusive to his son.
Jamie wanted to like take care of the son and the father didn't
want that. So he rats out that Jamie is
back at Lilybrook. Jenny and Claire.
I love these scenes especially in the TV show.

(01:46:52):
Like just the girlies out tryingto find Jamie.
Jenny literally just had a kid. So she's like breastfeeding, not
breastfeeding, but she is like making milk.
So she's like doing a pump and the old pump and dump and it's
just, it's so fun. But Murtagh, who is Jamie's

(01:47:15):
godfather and like a mentor to him, catches up with them.
So Jenny's able to go home. Claire does like a little like
you need to do these things to be safe.
Don't ask me how I know. Just like do them.
Murtaugh and Claire go like townto town searching for Jamie for
information on how to find Jamie.

(01:47:36):
Dougal catches up with them. He like dangles information.
Well, he like she thinks it's Jamie and then it's him in The
Cave with that is the money likethe money laundering place he's
and he's like Jamie's at Wentworth prison.
He's gonna be hung in like 2 days, hanged in two days.

(01:47:59):
Like he's basically a lost cause.
You actually could get married to me and we could take over
Lolly Brock, because when Jamie dies, it becomes your property.
But Murtaugh intercepts. And because he suspected Dougal
was up to something sketchy and they convinced some of Dougal's
men to go and save Jamie. I think what's interesting is

(01:48:22):
that in the book and in the show, in the book, that whole
scene of like Murtaugh and Claire are traveling around to
try to get information to where Jamie is.
Like that's only one chapter, but it's like a fairly long
chapter, but it goes by pretty quickly.
And then in the show, it's like an entire episode.
There's all this stuff about hersinging and dancing and.

(01:48:43):
I like that's the one. No, literally like that's the
one I the scene I skipped through like that's the scene I
like Fast forward. Oh my God.
I don't give a shit that you're like reading palms and like
yeah, also again, why doesn't she use more of her healer?
She skill she does but doesn't like.
In the book she does she she's travelling and Marita singing

(01:49:06):
and then in the show they're like oh and like I don't know if
the actress who plays Claire can't dance or what, but they
only ever show her doing like a little.
Like. Tap dance, like shimmy, like she
doesn't do like anything. It was her dancing and stuff
would be like 1940s dancing. I think that's why it's kind of
like A twist, like. Yeah, like she's because she's

(01:49:26):
singing a song that has the tuneof like a jazz World War Two
song, like boogie, boogie, boogie and like but they put
like I don't know it. That part is like let's hurry
this up because in the show we have so little time to get
through like a what is a big chunk left?
And like they that's on like thethird to last episode.

(01:49:48):
And I was like, why are we spending so much time on this
like song and whatever we shouldbe getting to like the prison
and whatever. But anyway, sorry.
Yeah, no. No, no, no.
I know. I, I hate, I hated that about
the show because it just draggeda little bit.
But yeah, then then Dougal like reveal Dougal is like uses the

(01:50:09):
fact that they are looking for Jamie to trap them and then tell
all this, you know, marry me instead, which is creepy.
But she does convince Dougal to allow some of his men to come
and help them. It still shows how scummy Dougal
is, I think in this scene because he tries to like, he
really pressures Claire and likeis like, we could be good

(01:50:31):
together. And she's like, oh.
I don't get that. Like I truly do not get his like
fucking obsession with her. What happens next?
After hearing from Dougal, Dougal has the unfortunate news
that Jamie has been captured by the British and he was sent to
Wentworth prison and also already at this point he has

(01:50:54):
been tried and found guilty and sentenced to hang.
So Claire is like, is he dead? And Dougal says no, not yet, but
it's only a matter of time. So she says cool, I'm going to
take some of your guys. We're going to do a rescue
mission. Even though everyone says this
is going to fail, this is never going to work.
She says, I have to try. I love him.

(01:51:16):
So they ultimately end up going to Wentworth Prison and Claire
poses as a family friend of the Fraser's and she's I'm just
doing my Christian duty. But she's trying to suss out
information from the warden of the prison.
And ultimately they do manage tolike, get some keys and knock

(01:51:39):
out a guard when the warden is off, like having lunch, like
they've they've plotted and planned.
She is wandering through the prison, sneaking around looking
for Jamie. And she in the book, she
actually uses those keys that she stole to let out a number of
prisoners. And she, she always.
Has to like. Yeah, but she always has to

(01:52:00):
complicated. Yeah, and like she always has to
fucking butt into other people'sbusiness instead of just
sticking to the plan. Like she's so annoying
sometimes. And she's basically like trips
over this guard and has to kill him.
And then she just leaves him behind and like never mentions
him again and doesn't ruminate over the fact that she like, she
was in shock earlier in the bookwhen she first has to kill a

(01:52:23):
guy. But that was in like
self-defense. And I mean, this was every time
she kills someone, it's in self-defense.
But we never care about this guyever again.
But she kills a guard as she finds Jamie, who is severely
injured. He's been shackled.
She's trying to get the shacklesundone.
And who arrives in this moment before she can free Jamie.

(01:52:45):
But Captain Blackjack, Jonathan Randall himself, and he has
brought along this like orderly henchman kind of guy.
Jamie has enough strength to fight off the henchman, but
Randall grabs a hold of Claire. And in this moment, Jamie uses
the only resources he has and hemakes a deal with Randall to try

(01:53:05):
to get Claire to safety. So it's very tense because
Claire knows that Jamie's already hurt.
He's already being mistreated. If Randall is here, Jamie is in
some serious danger, bodily, mentally, spiritually, all of
the the lease. And Jamie uses this opportunity

(01:53:27):
to make a deal, to arrange for Claire to be let out.
And he agrees to Randall that hewill not resist, that he will
capitulate. And Randall can do whatever he
wants to Jamie as long as Randall will see Claire to
safety. So Randall agrees because he
cannot resist a victim who will be who at the same time of

(01:53:49):
really desperately not wanting it, will be fully capitulating.
Like that is just like the perfect storm.
And Randall says, yeah, sounds good.
And so Claire, in the moment before she is released from the
prison, turns to Randall and it's like, yeah, I am a witch.
Here is the date you will die. And she declares because, yeah,

(01:54:11):
because this was a cool. This is a good moment in both
the book and the show when she'slike, I curse you with knowledge
of your death because she knows from the future and seeing
Frank's genealogy charts that Jack Randall dies in what is
still to be the future. Like he dies in at Culloden in
45. And so she tells him that he

(01:54:32):
releases her from the prison. Outside of the prison, she is
attacked by a wolf. And it's kind of like a sickly
wolf. And she manages to kill the
wolf. But then when more wolves are
showing up, she's freaking out. And then a man, you rescues her.
And so she wakes up in a cottagewith another Scotsman and his
not a cottage, but like, you know, at a state nearby.

(01:54:54):
And she's begging them for help,but they're like, we can't risk
helping you break people out of prison.
And Murtaugh and a couple of Dougal's men who are nearby are
like, what are we going to do? It's really hard to break people
out of prison. And they realize that Rupert has
actually stolen some of the cattle that belong to their

(01:55:15):
host, Marcus Mcgrannon. And Mcgrannon is like, well,
actually. And they devise a plot and a
plan because Claire left the back door open to drive the
cattle into the prison, and which will cause enough ruckus
that the the Dougal's men can also sneak in with the cattle
and like, rescue Jamie. And they managed to enact this

(01:55:39):
plot. It goes off without a hitch.
They are able to get to the backdoor, push the cows in.
Chaos ensues. And actually one of the guys
tells Jamie and Claire that theyhad seen that Randall got
trampled by all the cows that they drove into the prison and
they weren't able to get Jamie out.

(01:55:59):
He is not in good condition physically or mentally.
He is very unwell, and his hand had been not only nailed to a
table but also smashed into manybits as well as other various
wounds all across his body. And Jamie was also sexually

(01:56:19):
abused by Captain Randall. So there is a big snowstorm that
is happening. And also the prison is in major
chaos because she released a bunch of prisoners and because
there's a bunch of cows in there.
And so they are able to take this one night while the
snowstorm is happening for Claire to kind of tend and
triage Jamie's wounds. She gives him a ton of whiskey

(01:56:43):
and he is half in and half out while she kind of does her best
to set the bones in all of it inhis hand and and take care of
the most of his wounds. And ultimately, Jamie, Clare and
Murtaugh have to get away from the prison.
They're still quite close to theprison.
So they ultimately, you know, sneak away in the the early

(01:57:08):
morning of the next day and theyset sail on a boat for France.
They cross the Channel and Jamieis like one of the most seasick
persons in the whole world. And he almost dies of it.
But they get him to a monastery in France where Jamie's uncle is
like the habit or something. And this is a place where he
will be able to rest and relax and recover.

(01:57:29):
But even though he starts to mend physically, he is not doing
well mentally. Or one of the brothers who's
taking care, one of the father, you know, Father Anselm or
somebody who's taking care of him says, I fear his soul is,
you know, in turmoil. And basically, like, Jamie is so
affected by what has happened inthe torture that he underwent

(01:57:53):
that he doesn't have the will tolive.
And he is very ashamed of everything that happened.
And he is very much so still in shock and recovery and kind of
PTSD moments. And also he reveals to Claire
ultimately that Randall manipulated him in a torturous
way, in a way that was at turns,like vicious and tender.

(01:58:16):
And it really just totally fucked with Jamie's head.
And he kind of Randall kept bringing Claire up and bringing
Claire to mind to Jamie's mind and manipulating Jamie
throughout this situation to make Randall and Claire kind of
blur together a little bit. So Jamie like, loves Claire and

(01:58:37):
longs for her and wants her healing touch and her love and
attention. But he also is so ashamed of her
and his having this like PTSD and hallucinations and
delusions. So he is declining physically
and mentally and ultimately he is pretty suicidal and doesn't.
And he wants Claire to leave. And Claire is like, no, I stayed

(01:58:59):
in the fucking past for you. We're going to do this.
So in the book, there's this really weird scene where she
like uses opium to kind of like drug him and kind of like
reenact some of what he has described happened between
Randall and him. And it's basically an
opportunity for Jamie to like play out what if he resisted and

(01:59:22):
like they kind of like fight each other essentially.
And he kind of mentally is able to form a memory of this is how
I interpreted it. He's sort of able to form a
memory of defeating Randall. And this is an opportunity for.
And then like he like commits toClaire and they like kind of
decide that like, yes, like he he that that's his turning

(01:59:44):
point. He, like, defeats Randall
mentally in his head, and he hasClaire there with him.
So he is on the mend there in France, relatively safe.
And in the very last little chapter of the book, they decide
that they're like, what are theygoing to do?
How are they going to move forward?
He kind of says to Claire, like.It's, it's up to you like I love

(02:00:07):
you, you've saved me, like I, I am there with you like we are
here together, like we, I will do what you want us to do.
And Claire decides that maybe they could have an effect and
change the future. Maybe they could influence
Bonnie Prince Charlie. There's still a little bit of
time before she knows the dates of the big Culloden and the wars

(02:00:30):
and the official breaking out oftrouble.
And so she's like, maybe we havetime to still influence things.
And then in the very, very end, Jamie shows Claire this amazing
hot spring underground and Abby and they have sex and they are
like fully reconnecting to each other.
And he is like on the mend. He's officially ready to like,

(02:00:54):
you know, go forward into his future and which is a good thing
because Claire reveals that she is pregnant.
So there's a dramatic boom, boom, boom, boom boom end of
this book. Yes, like all action-packed like
And Claire is so determined at every turn.
She is so she could have been like, oh man, he's in prison.

(02:01:14):
Like I am sad, sad, sad about that.
But like, how do you break someone out of prison?
And instead she is so determined, like how she has
seen Jamie come for her that sheshe will not allow absolutely
every attempt. You know, she has to attempt
every single thing. She will not allow defeat.
She has to give it her 100 two 100%.

(02:01:37):
And I think that that's like amazing.
And is some of this a little sure, like like can you actually
drive cattle into a prison? But for the for the most part,
this is like pretty well represented in the show.
I thought the show doesn't really do the whole like using

(02:01:59):
opium to like reenact the scenesor whatever, But there is
explicit detail of all of of notall of many of the acts that
Randall like tore how he Jamie and that he forces Jamie to to
like live through. And the show does a good job
using a visual effect to kind oflike blurf Jack Randall's face

(02:02:23):
and go into Claire's face and and he he and Jamie is.
It shows that Jamie is not mentally present when this is
happening. And he's then manipulated and
hurt so much that Randall is able to is able to confuse him
and use Jamie's not clear mentalstate to a torturous effect in a

(02:02:43):
way that like really emphasizes and drives home why Jamie is
resistant to Claire when she's trying to heal him.
I feel like that element was so not easily.
It's the visual medium of like blending the two together.
Really emphasized how Jamie could have reservations about

(02:03:05):
Claire afterwards. And I will say also because
they're in a monastery, there's a bunch more content in the book
about how Claire confesses to this father and she learns about
perpetual adoration and Catholicism.
But it felt a little shoehorned in, in my opinion, that like
sort of writing right there. Is Catholic.
Probably Catholic. And yeah, it felt a little bit

(02:03:27):
like, like Claire like gets to the monastery and she's like,
yeah, father, like I'm agnostic.And then at the end she's
basically like, I felt God and Ifeel moved to do this.
And so it's sort of is like almost a little bit of a like
Christian called the Jesus moment at the end of the book.
But you know, it was still did not did not take away from a

(02:03:48):
dramatic ending and a major declaration.
I feel like I will say, even though the show doesn't have
this whole big like drugs, opiumreenactment, whatever, like they
just I I think that's a weird scene in the book.
It's it's weird and doesn't really make much sense as to
like what Claire is trying to do.

(02:04:09):
She's trying to just like use psychology and drugs to like
manipulate him, essentially not manipulate him, but to try to
like heal him in a way that she doesn't know what she's doing
and she's just taking, you know,but she's at the end of her
rope. And so I kind of am fine with
them not including it. But also it shows how heavy his

(02:04:33):
mental state was and how much hehad to go through to recover
from what he had just gone through.
And I feel like in the show, like it's weird, but it's a lot
in the book. And like he went through a lot
in the prison and then he goes through a lot to recover from
it. And then in the show, it's like
he went through a lot in the prison, but they had a heartfelt
conversation. Now he decides and then he like,

(02:04:55):
just like decides to live. And so it's sort of like I felt
like they could have done a smidgen more in the show because
it felt like she just like kind of cries and it's like, I'll
love you no matter what. And he's like, OK, so I felt a
tiny bit let down in the show. But but for the most part, you
know, it's a very good adaptation overall and a

(02:05:16):
traumatic end to the first book.And it's not a cliffhanger.
It feels somewhat resolved, but it's definitely still open-ended
enough to leave plenty of room for the future books.
So yeah, it's a good end. Yeah, because you're right, it's
not a cliffhanger in the usual sense of like, we don't know
what happens next because thingsare resolved at this point.

(02:05:39):
But it's it drops hints that areexciting.
What are they going to do in terms of trying to disrupt the
future and that she's pregnant? Because they.
Yeah, talk about staying in France or going to Italy because
that's where Bonnie Prince Charlie currently is or going
back to Scotland. And I think that like also if

(02:06:00):
people haven't watched the show yet, because I do feel like
reading about something and thenseeing it, it feels different.
There are time stamps that you can like find on Reddit and
stuff like that where you can like skip all of the essay
scenes because like, yeah, Outlander has had criticism not
only the show for I guess like depicting so much essay, but

(02:06:21):
then like Diana for including somuch essay.
Because as the books go on, basically many, especially all
of the women have incidences of sexualized violence.
But I do think in terms of like IA, lot of things are really
like authentic to especially male survivors, because there's

(02:06:42):
like the shame of like some kindof maybe like not additional,
but like different shame that that men have in comparison to
women because of our ideas aboutgender and and masculinity.
And like why didn't he fight back and he couldn't fight back?
And I think survivors also have AI used to work in like anti

(02:07:05):
violence work. So like a lot of survivors have
a lot of guilt about like, why didn't I fight back?
Why wasn't I able to fight back?Or like, if they're like
shutting down, like why did I shut down?
And then also when if they are aroused, because that happens
because we all like it's. A physiological.
Yes, a physiological response, not necessarily like a

(02:07:28):
psychological response. And people feel a lot of shame
because they're like, Oh my God,did I like it?
Like how did this happen when itwas something that is so
traumatic and awful, Right. But yeah, the the religious
thing kind of doesn't hit, but then it does kind of continue in
it makes sense when you read I think the second book.

(02:07:48):
But like in this book, it didn'tlike super, super make sense.
But I do really like how they changed it in the show where
they set sail to France and the monasteries in Scotland 'cause
it was very exciting, them getting on a big boat and stuff
like that. Whereas here they already they

(02:08:09):
go to France before he's fully healed.
So I liked that part. It does have a very traumatic,
you know, final couple shots of the show is them setting sail on
this big, you know, rig rigged, beautiful sailing ship.
Yeah, I agree. And I think that, yeah, just the
fact that I think that she just wanted the Abbey to like be in

(02:08:32):
France and so, like, it doesn't really necessarily make sense.
It could have worked out either way, you know what I mean?
Totally, 100%. OK, let's wrap up with some like
round table discussion. This is our Internet
investigation, our cursory proves of the Internet of Things
you need to know. Diana started writing the book
really early March 6th, 1988. It was a practice book.

(02:08:55):
She never intended anyone to seeit, which is nuts because it's
actually one of the biggest selling books in the world as of
today. And she was inspired by Doctor
Who's Jamie Mccrimmon, who is played by Fraser Hines, an actor
who actually appears in Season 1, which is such a, like, fun

(02:09:16):
little Easter egg. And Diana Campbelldon is a has
an appearance in season. One, yes, yeah.
I love when authors do that. It's so fun.
Stephanie Meyer did it. Jenny Hahn did it, and their
works. It's just really, really fun.
Many years ago I read that Diana, she had like two or three
kids at this point, like like young kids, she had a full time

(02:09:37):
job, like her husband had a fulltime job.
Like she was basically writing because it was her passion And
she was doing it like at at midnight, you know, like she
would do her whole day and then like do her whole evening with
the kids and everything. Put all of the kids to bed, do
all of everything she needed to do and then be like, well, I'm
giving up some of my sleep to goand write.
And like that really shows dedication, passion, you know?

(02:10:00):
Totally, totally. And such a cool idea too.
OK. I wonder why these are
unanswered questions for the listeners.
Obviously we still don't know about the ghost, which I think
is again, the biggest fan question.
I feel like something that isn'treally explored is like Claire
giving up modern comforts, but not just modern comforts, like
modern medicine and stuff like that.

(02:10:20):
Because it's like, especially she's pregnant, like there's
tons of risks back and that timewhere she could, you know, like
die from birth. So I think that, you know, that
maybe is like under explored in the book.
And then Dougal's obsession withClara is driving me nuts.
Like he's so obsessed with her at like every point he kisses

(02:10:42):
her that one time he wants to marry her.
There's the scene after the wedding where he's like
propositioning her. Like it just is like a steady, a
steady theme throughout. The entire book, yeah.
I mean, I think it's supposed tobe.
There's like a couple throwaway moments in both the book and the
show where Claire kind of mentions that she had this

(02:11:04):
unusual upbringing because she was raised by her uncle, who's,
like, an archaeologist or something.
So she talks about how she in her own upbringing in the early
1900s, that she had been to a whole variety of places that
didn't have indoor plumbing or, you know, that she had lived
multiple times in her life without the modern conveniences.
And so I think that, like, it wasn't a an issue for her to

(02:11:28):
give up something like hot bathsbecause, like, she had gone
without four times in her life. But yeah, I do think that like
the I, I mean, I think that that's supposed to show the,
like, power of love that she's so willing.
Yeah. Right.
And I, and I think that like we're really supposed to believe
in both the book and the show that Claire is like top notch

(02:11:53):
that like like every, there's never a man who sees her and is
like, like every guy is like she's like beautiful.
Like there's so much commentary about how like around her butt
is and that kind of thing. And I think that like it's
supposed to be that like she is just extremely desirable.
And I think that like Dougal or especially earlier on in the

(02:12:16):
book when he doesn't understand who she is or where she comes
from. And is she a spy?
You know, I he is in a such a position of power to kind of
have probably gotten pretty muchany woman he wants with just
like a. So I think that like Claire is
someone that he probably views as kind of a match to him, sort

(02:12:37):
of similar to Gaylist. Like Gaylist talks about how she
and Dougal are so well matched. And I think it's because, you
know, I think he, I think Dougalis the kind of guy who would
respond to some sass and some some bite, you know, some
feistiness. And I think that both Claire and
Gayless. Because they're modern.

(02:12:57):
Yeah. Because.
They're modern women, they feel like they can stand up to men,
whereas you're right in 1743, women can't.
And and I think that Dougal also, there was a moment that I
don't know, I can't remember if it's confirmed in later books
and we didn't bring it up in this, but like Jamie had had a
near death. He'd gotten clubbed on the back

(02:13:18):
of the head at some other point.And I think you eventually find
out that Dougal was the one who did that.
Like before he ever meets Jamie,before Jamie ever meets Claire,
Jamie had been hit on the head. And later I think you find out
that Dougal was the one who did that.
Oh yeah, isn't that why he like rubs his head at at some point

(02:13:38):
when he's talking to Claire or. Yeah, he has like a scar or
something like that. And he, that's how he had gone
to the monastery once before, was to like recover from that
head wound. And he had like a couple weeks
of like, no memory or something.And I think in future books you
find out that Dougal basically had tried to kill him.
And I think that that's, again, for those like politics reasons

(02:13:59):
that are kind of boring. But.
I, I think that maybe seeing Dougal, Dougal seeing Claire and
Jamie being well matched and falling for each other, I think
he maybe had a little bit of like AI wish I had that, you
know? Yeah, yeah, that's actually, I
think those are good theories. Like those really ring true.

(02:14:21):
OK, Our grapes and grumbles. These are nitpicky problems we
have with the book you wrote that you didn't think Claire had
a proper freak out of the time travelled.
Like she takes like not everything.
She does have some moments, but like she really takes everything
in stride. Whereas like, and you're right,
like Diana I think does a good job of explaining her upbringing

(02:14:42):
and like how she's so competent after World War 2 and stuff like
that, that some of these things don't shock her.
But it's like, and she just found out that time travel
exists and she's just kind of taking it on the chin and.
We do see later, like when Claire finally does breakdown
and tell Jamie when he asks her if she's a witch, like she

(02:15:04):
finally is like at her breaking point.
But by that point she's been in the past for months.
You know what I mean? Like, I think that if they're
done even a little bit of stuff earlier on about her sleeping
poorly or, you know, like, I don't know, I know she's trying
to get back and trying to escape.
So like maybe you could say thatmost of her times of trying to
get back to Frank and trying to escape was her not fully coming

(02:15:28):
to terms in the past or something.
But like, there wasn't even a single moment of like, like, how
would she have known how to dress properly?
Or like there's just certain moments I think that she would
have been like, oh, this is how they're doing things in the
past. And then like, not known how to
navigate that situation. And like we never see any of

(02:15:50):
those moments. So I was kind of like, I think
that she should have been not socomfortable in the past or
something. I don't know.
It would have been moments of interest, I think.
I think that's a good point. Like especially when she's
eating food and it's like there's that one time in the
show that she gets like a squirrel or something like that
and she's like, I'm not going toeat this.

(02:16:10):
But it's like, even when she's like eating at Castle Leuke and
it's like fucking some gross meat, like gamey meat, she just
like eats it like, yeah, takes it like a champ.
Like I, I feel like that is something.
And then she does have Miss Mistress Fitzgibbon to dress
her. But yeah, like when she goes on

(02:16:31):
the road also just the language like she never really, she like
kind of sometimes is like, oh, like that infection and then
she's like, or like inflammationor whatever.
And then she changes it to the word that they would have used,
but like, not in a way that would have, like, outed her.
So I, I, I wonder, like, there'sGayla slips up a few times and I

(02:16:54):
wonder. Yeah, like she doesn't seem to
really do that. Well, and even just English to
English like I think 200 years ago from now, I think in 1824, I
don't think that people were speaking exactly the same way as
they do now. Like, how does she never, you

(02:17:14):
know, like she does say, make a comment or two in the show.
Oh yeah, she does. Like she something.
Let's jazz it up or. Something Yeah, yeah.
And she and she says like, and she calls Jamie one time.
John Wayne, I think. Yeah.
Or like you're a real and it's you're a real something
something and it's like a talk show host or something like

(02:17:36):
that. And and like so there I guess
there is times. So it's like, then why the fuck
did the Mackenzie clan not realize that?
Like, I don't know, they're justlike, oh, she's English.
She's a little bit quirky, like.I will say that like kind of
similar to to like what we're talking about being a Claire,

(02:17:57):
not being part of the times I felt like reading the book,
there were sort of moments when Claire almost didn't seem to be
like present in the scene. Something that comes to mind
right away are like the scenes when Jamie and Claire first go
to Lolly Brock and there's all this like conversation that has
to happen between Jamie and Jenny as they're they're getting

(02:18:20):
back in touch and reconciling all of their grievances with
each other. Like Claire is theoretically
like sitting there in the room, like listening to them have
these conversations, but like she never says anything.
And this happens a couple different times where she is,
she is present witnessing something happened, but she she
does not participate in the conversation or, or even we

(02:18:42):
don't. It's told in first person.
She thinks to herself, I thoughtblah, blah, blah.
Or wow, I can't wait to escape. Like, there's not even like her
own thoughts during some of these scenes where she could
like think to herself like, oh, that's how I feel like that
Jamie should have handled it this way or anything like that.

(02:19:03):
And so I felt like there were. Certain.
Moments in the book where her internal dialogue kind of
stopped in a way that I noticed.I don't know.
I don't know if you noticed that, but.
I kind of did. And I was actually thinking like
I would have been fine if those were like Jamie POV chapters.
Like they, they do the one JamiePOV episode in the season, which

(02:19:27):
I felt like worked well and it wasn't like jarring or anything.
Like I would have been fine withlike a few because yeah, I get
it. It was.
I think the problem was is that it was like kind of Jamie's
story and she would, but she's the one there witnessing it and
that doesn't make sense. But maybe she thought that it
would be too jarring to have like 3 chapters that are Jamie's

(02:19:48):
POV in the middle. Well.
What's interesting is that throughout the course of the
book series, basically in each subsequent book, like more and
more perspectives from other characters are brought in.
And so this first, I mean, not it's not like book for book,
definitely add one more, one more, one more.
But by book five and six, we arestarting to have perspectives

(02:20:11):
that are not just Claire. And so I think that like, I
think that maybe the author didn't.
Feel super confident about including multiple points of
view this early on, or maybe hadplanned to include more points
of view later. And so, like, wanted to work
hard to keep this one as only Claire's point of view.

(02:20:32):
I think that, like, it was kind of interesting for the show
purposes to have one whole episode that was from Jamie's
perspective. And I think, like you said, I
think they did it pretty well overall.
It felt a little weird to just be like, Claire, Claire, Claire,
Jamie, Claire, Claire, Claire, Claire, Claire.
Yeah, I just think that that's like a very interesting element
to both the book and the show issort of how they show the

(02:20:55):
perspective of things. Because I think it's easy in a
show to feel like the whole thing is in third person.
Like we hear Claire voice over to show what she was thinking,
which helps put it in first person.
And that's how we know the Jamieepisode is from Jamie's point of
view is 'cause it's like his voice over.

(02:21:16):
But I think that there's automatically a smidgen more
distance in the show because you're watching an actor do the
thing. Whereas in the book it says I
did this, I did this. You're almost like reading it
from their eyes, if that makes sense.
So I don't know. I, I'm very sensitive to
perspective. I love when books are in first
person. And me too.

(02:21:36):
And like, I just noticed it verystrongly when I was watching the
show again. And I was like, that's from
Jamie's point of view. This whole episode is from
Jamie's point of view. And I was like, and I wanted to,
I never checked to see if that had like a different director or
something. But like, I thought that was a
very interesting choice, but it worked well.
Yeah, it's interesting that we're having this conversation
because I just covered the Acatar bonus chapters on the

(02:21:58):
pod. And this basically happens in
Avatar where it's Ferah's first person POV and then when it
switches to Nesta and Cassian, it's third person POV.
And how? Because like you're saying, it
would be kind of jarring to get someone's POV, like a switch in

(02:22:19):
POV in the middle of the book. So but there was vital
information that the reader needed to know for book 5 S
Sarah J Masse released some bonus chapters where it was the
POV switch, which I thought was like smart.
But it's interesting because it basically is like the same as
Outlander where then all of a sudden it gets to like multi POV

(02:22:41):
and stuff like that, but it's all in third person because, you
know, the main character is is Pharah.
And in this case it's Claire. But I also feel like, like in
the book, it's so clearly, obviously Claire's story.
But I feel like in the show theydo a good job of making it like
it's Jamie and Claire's. Yeah, they're the main
characters. Versus like Claire is the main
character. I think the show did well and

(02:23:03):
emphasized that it was a romanceby making Jamie and Claire
relatively equal like Co stars you know?
Yeah, So sequel scoop, this is our tea on any upcoming sequel
seasons and the general reception.
It was an instant hit. It's sold over 50 million bucks
by 2021, so obviously it would be more than that.

(02:23:24):
And the next book is Dragon Flying Amber, which, you know,
we get the Hugh Munro kind of tidbit in there.
But the series will be 10 bucks.9 are currently out.
There's also some short stories,novellas, a musical, and Lord
John Gray spin off series. But of course it became a TV

(02:23:44):
show as well which I have enjoyed so much.
Like I looked at the ratings because I was curious and like
it had like the first couple seasons were like did really
well and then by the end, by thelast couple seasons it is like
the viewers are a barely hangingon.
I mean, I think that it's hard to have longevity and a show is

(02:24:06):
structured such that you have towait so long between seasons.
And it's like, you know, at thispoint, the first, the first
release date for the first season was 10 / 10 years ago at
this point. So it's hard to like stick with
the show for that long. And I think that as it took us,
so it took us so long to go through this whole book because

(02:24:29):
like there is so much plot in all of these books, like there's
so much action. And I think that it was very
appropriate. This first season of the show is
a really great adaptation for the first book that we just
discussed. I think that that's probably a
testament to the fact that DianaGabaldon was a was the
consultant and that like the show creators really cared about

(02:24:53):
the, you know, the source material.
But I also think that that really is an amazing thing for
the fans and it will get people hooked.
If you've read the book and thenthe then the adaptation sucks,
you're never going to get 5-10 more seasons, you know?
And if the show is faithful to the source material, especially
in spirit, if not exact detail, then I think that that creates

(02:25:16):
the love and creates the fandom there.
And as soon as they start getting even into Season 2,
three, every season subsequently, they start pulling
from more and more books to bring characters forward and to,
like, kind of merge storylines. Yeah.
So I think that like it starts to become a lot more, I don't
wanna say convoluted, but like there's a lot more going on just

(02:25:38):
full stop. Yeah, and it's not as direct
where as like book one, it was like literally again, word for
word. Like Diana even wrote a few of
the episodes like and it is likepurely, you know, season 1 for
book 1 and stuff like that. And, and I think three and four
and stuff like that go similarly.
But yeah, and then they get intolike kind of the middle and they

(02:26:01):
start kind of merging them, which I think is like I think is
fair. They I think did a good job with
that. And then also Ronald D Moore,
who was like the creator ends upleaving.
And I don't, I don't think he leaves permanently.
I think he still consults, but he leaves like his major role.
And I think that that's also when like maybe it kind of like

(02:26:22):
might have dipped in quality, I would say, but.
Did you think that the casting is good?
Like do you like our actors? Is our.
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's a good question.
Let's get some of these facts that like I watch, I can watch
it on Netflix in Canada, but it's also on stars, like that's
the channel that it's on. And like you mentioned, it was

(02:26:43):
released August 9th, 2014. Katrina Belf plays Claire
Beecham, Randall Fraser and Sam Heuen as Jamie Fraser.
I think that they did an excellent job actually, to be
honest. I know there's a character that
I know is controversial in laterbooks, which we won't spoil that
people hate. It's Brianna, they hate the

(02:27:04):
actress. But to be honest, I don't think
that would choose different actors for any of these roles.
Like a lot like I think that they really embodied what Diana
wrote like in especially like mistress Fitzgibbons, I think
was good. Murtagh like and and Claire and

(02:27:25):
Jamie and and Dougal and column like.
I really think the eccentric Duke of Sandringham, like the
costume means good, the lighting's good, the
authenticity of filming in Scotland is, is excellent.
Like I just really I, I cannot say enough good things about the

(02:27:46):
TV. Show yeah, I'm happy with the
casting. I think that it's beautiful to
look at. Like I think that's majorly
contributed by the the setting of being in Scotland.
Like I think it's very evocative.
I think it's also interesting I wrote in here that there is a
filth yeah, that they use for 1945 versus 1743, which, you

(02:28:12):
know, whatever. But like, I think the show is
beautiful to look at and I thinkthe casting overall is quite,
quite good. I think the, you know, the
acting is excellent. I think they did a really good
job overall with the show and and anybody who doesn't like
certain characters, that's just personal preference, you know?
I don't think anyone's like doing a poor job, you know?
Totally, totally. It's actually interesting.

(02:28:33):
They did talk about the filter because technically the show is
set in the in the further away time, which you would think
would be like the sepia tone, but it's the more vivid one.
And then 1945 because it that isthe sepia tone one, even though
it is technically the future. So I thought that that was like

(02:28:54):
an interesting choice. I think the music is really
good. Yeah, yeah, there's a, there's a
few differences, Like it was, itwas filmed in the fall, so they
used Sam Samhine. It's called.
Sawin. Sawin would have never, would
have literally never guessed that.
Which is like, kind of like Halloween.

(02:29:15):
Which worked fine. Yeah, I thought that was totally
fine. I don't think it like changed
anything. I feel like we've talked a lot
about kind of some of these likedifferences.
Is there anything that like super sticks out to you that you
don't want to miss? I will say that I thought it was
interesting that the show included a scene where Claire

(02:29:36):
kind of imagines telling Mistress Fitzgibbons that she
came here from, you know, and she and at first like the way
this is just put into the episode, I think it's the very
start of an episode. And it's when Claire kind of has
just come to terms with the ideathat she has travelled back in
time. And so there's like a moment
where Claire's like misses Fitz.I'm from the future, you know,

(02:29:58):
and misses Fitz is like you witch.
And for like half a second, you,the viewer don't realize this is
Claire imagining it. And you think what is happening,
but then you realize Claire is imagining how that conversation
would go. And I think that that does a
good job to set up early on in the show, like the the
superstitions of the time and how the like average person then

(02:30:22):
in 1740, whatever would have assumed that Claire was either
crazy or let she was, you know, a witch or whatever.
And I think that like, I think there could be people from a
contemporary perspective who would say, why couldn't she just
say, I'm from another time, takeme to the stones And someone
would have done it like, like you.
No, like she would have been in trouble, like unsafe to do that.

(02:30:46):
And so I felt like that was important or interesting to
include. Yeah, I really liked that.
And again, the first time watching it, it was like so
shocking to me that it ends up being like her, like waking up
from a dream. The other thing is that they
give Rupert and Angus, who are literally like, just kind of the
henchman of Dougal, a huge ComicRelief role throughout the

(02:31:08):
entire first season. And they're so funny, and they
bring some levity to the show that the book, like, doesn't
really have, well, it. The book has some funny parts,
but this really like light, likethey really lighten it up.
But then also you feel you feel the progression of also not only

(02:31:29):
her relationship with Jamie, butalso her friendship with these
other people that kind of actually almost you.
You do see it in the book, but Ijust thought the depiction was
almost better because it shows how she's fitting into this
time, not just because of her relationship with Jamie.
Right. And the show included the the

(02:31:50):
young guy Willie, he was like one of the people who was
travelling with them multiple times.
He's 1 of Dougal's guys. But like, it also shows how
they're they're she's like kind toward him and he's kind toward
her. So who I don't think was a
character in the book, but it's just, you know, she, she makes

(02:32:11):
these connections with other people and it's like, good to
see. I also like that they changed
when he leaves her to see Horicks that she was with Willie
because it did kind of, it did kind of seem crazy that he left
her alone in the book, like because that is really
dangerous. So I kind of like that she had
Willie there, I guess, but not that she even took him like

(02:32:32):
seriously, but. I will say that in the show
there is. One of the things that is sort
of mentioned multiple times in the show is this other element
that is a source of of tension or potential problems for Jamie
are the watch, which is a group of of guys who are, you know,

(02:32:54):
Scottish who went around the countryside and like we're
basically like offering protection to the local people
against the like redcoats. Like the redcoats could always
come in and like basically they were the ones in charge.
But the watch was like, we'll offer you our protection from
those bullies, But then the watch was bullies and like the
watch, the watch was utilized tocapture Jamie when he was

(02:33:18):
captured, like when they were staying at the at lolly Brock
and stuff. And I feel like in the book
that's like they're around, but like they're not really
explained or anything. And I feel like the show
actually took a little bit of effort to like, here's who the
watch is. Here's this whole like subplot
of the the guy, like the Irish guy that he like meets in the
watch who respects him. And so it's like, you know, I

(02:33:39):
think that that was just a stronger element in the show,
which I didn't think was a good thing or a bad thing.
It just was like a difference between the show and the book.
But I think it does bring some nuance into the discussion about
how it's not just Scottish versus English.
Like there were people in the watch who were also causing
problems for like the common guy.

(02:34:00):
And I think that that that was an interesting element to bring
in. And it, like war, is never so
straightforward as to be like good, bad at the end.
Yeah, that's a really good point.
The Gallic isn't translated in the show, which people might not
even like notice. I feel like I don't even think I
really noticed until I did. And then I heard it was because

(02:34:23):
Claire is the protagonist and the main character everything's
from her POV and she doesn't know Gallic, so why would it be
translated? But I think it worked really
well. They talked, they speaking
Gallic a lot, but the the difference is that it, it, you
still get the message of what they're talking about, even
though obviously we don't speak Gallic either, which is wild.

(02:34:44):
Like I think that really shows how good the production is
because we never, I never felt like, Oh my God, I need to know
what they say and I'm confused and I don't know what they're
saying. I knew what they were talking
about. And it's quite a bit like the
oath ceremony, the vows, the Jacobite money collecting and
stuff like that, like that. There's a lot of times where

(02:35:06):
they are only speaking to Gallic.
The times that they're in the Inns with other Scotsman, like,
yeah, it it just it, it was a smart choice and I thought they
did it really, really well. I agree, when she first has
travelled and is confused and disoriented when she's hearing
other people speak Gaelic, it just heightens the viewers like

(02:35:29):
confusion. Like we can see how Claire is
like in this unknown space in this unknown time.
She doesn't even understand whatthey're saying.
Like this is a problem. And then, you know, as time goes
on, we can see we still have scenes where she's not following
what's going on, but like it's no longer being utilized in the
like in the pushing her away, you know, element.

(02:35:53):
And I think that like one of thescenes that really stood out for
me is a scene when Marta is talking to Jamie in the
monastery and Jamie is like, we're like not doing well
recovery post prison. And Murtaugh and Jamie have like
a it's like a minute long and like they're going back and
forth. And you can you can just see
like the acting is excellent in the scene to understand that

(02:36:15):
Murtaugh is like trying to like cajole him and like encourage
him and kind of like, and then like tough love him.
And Jamie, the whole time is like resisting and having deep
feelings and is like, no, but like, like you said, like you
understand what's happening evenwithout understanding the actual

(02:36:35):
words. And I think that, like you said
speaks to the production. It speaks to intentionally
utilizing the tools you have andit speaks to the acting
capabilities because you are still drawn into that scene even
though you you, you. You think that you would be
like, oh, this is boring, like get like get to the parts that I

(02:36:56):
like understand or whatever. But you're right.
It's it's conveyed so clearly because, again, I had watched
the TV show before I read the first book.
So it was like, again, I had no idea what was going on.
And it wasn't that I read the book and I knew the context for
their conversation. So yeah, it was it was really,
really thoughtful and really well done.
I agree. OK let's RIP through these our

(02:37:18):
Internet investigation. The theme song is the sky boat
song. They adapted lyrics from a poem
by Robert Louis Stevenson about Bonnie Prince Charles escape
after the failed Jacobite. But they changed the pronouns to
be she her to mimic Claire's journey.
Which again I get the detail that they have put in and the

(02:37:40):
care that they have put into this show is just so cool.
Like I just really appreciate. It's a good song.
It's so good. It's so fun to listen to check
out the they have a podcast, theOutland like Outlander companion
podcast. They bring in so many different
people that are on the production side, the costume

(02:38:04):
designer, screenwriters, etcetera.
And it's just so cool to hear everyone's perspective and how
just how the show came to be, things they cut, things they
wanted to include. There was like a little bit of
like oopsie Daisy where like Samand Katrina like, and you'll see
this in the first couple seasonscompared to the older seasons.

(02:38:26):
There's like a lot more like nudity and like the sex scenes
are like, I feel like more graphic and stuff like that.
And it's because they didn't have an intimacy coordinator on
the first season. And I think they both kind of
maybe probably because they werenew and yeah, they just like,
had sometimes where they felt uncomfortable and like, that
doesn't feel good hearing and then watching the show and

(02:38:48):
you're like, Oh, no, these people like, actually don't feel
well about this. That's unfortunate, but like I I
think that the IT doesn't come across.
No. To ruin the sex scenes, you
know, Yeah, I think it's unfortunate to hear that.
That might have been a little bit of discussion that was
happening between the actors in interviews or whatever, but I

(02:39:10):
think that they were extremely professional to be able to still
do their jobs. And I felt like generally the
sex scenes that are in the book were pretty or were in the
movie, the show, sorry. I felt like the sex scenes that
were in the show were pretty respectful and intimate and like
they really had some some like love presented quite well I

(02:39:31):
thought. I think their relationship, like
even seeing clips of them filming, like they just wrapped
the final season, like this week, I think that we're
recording this, which is kind offun in a full circle moment.
And like you can just tell they're such good friends and
like they do share a lot of likerespect and love for each other.

(02:39:51):
I've no wonder why I have like afew grapes and grumbles.
Like obviously like the length of the book is kind of brutal.
And I feel like this, we've already mentioned this, but it
kind of leads to some episodes dragging a little bit, like when
Murtaugh and Claire are dancing for information.
And like, yeah, just some of thescenes and then like maybe like

(02:40:14):
a little rush at the end. I don't know.
But I overall I think that they did a really good job and it's.
But yeah, I feel like there was some episodes that I was like,
oh, this is like really filler episode.
Like, yeah. I definitely remembered.
I was trying to remember before I did not reread or rewatch,
like the plot and how much of itdid I remember?

(02:40:36):
And I was thinking to myself, OK, well, I know that they go
here, but like, why do they go there?
And then I know that like there's this scene, but like,
why are they in the woods again?And so there's definitely
moments where like they go and then they leave and then they
they're captured and then they're escaped and then they're
running and like the so it's like sometimes this kind of
feels a little bit like some elements should have been cut

(02:40:59):
out. Like I think that the whole like
Claire and her being a witch andthe witch trial, I think that
was high drama. I think that was super
interesting. I think it was relevant for the
time. It was relevant for Gay Lists's
character. But like, it kind of felt like
if we had been able to just liftall of that out, it could have
been like 100 pages cut from thebook and like an episode half

(02:41:23):
could have been like. Dedicated.
To to the relationship or yes. And like the recovery, like
towards the end. I don't know.
I mean, I don't want there to belike more and more of the like
brutal stuff necessarily. But yeah, it was gratuitous in
the length of the book and in the just like amount that they
had to cram into the show. And like you wrote here, like

(02:41:44):
sometimes it felt like Claire just needed to be saved
constantly. That's I, that's sort of what
I'm getting at is like, she was like, because she was constantly
trying to escape and because shewas semi incompetent about that,
she either didn't know where shewas or didn't have a horse or
whatever. Like and those pesky redcoats
kept turning up Like it just felt like a lot of like yo yoing

(02:42:05):
where it was like. Yes, yes.
To Randall, to Jamie, to Randall, to Jamie.
Like. And it didn't feel like that in
the book, but in the TV show, I feel like it constantly felt
like, because again, like 200 pages or whatever were condensed
into one episode or whatever, Itsometimes felt like, oh, she's
like she fucked up again. Or like, yeah, she's like she

(02:42:25):
got in trouble again because she, like, opened her mouth or
like, whatever. Like, yeah, I think that kind of
happened. And I think my lies last gripe
and grumble is like I think the sexual assault scenes and stuff
like that. I thought I think like Game of
Thrones, I think that I was like, why does Outlander get
heat? But like Game of Thrones and

(02:42:46):
stuff doesn't I'm but I'm like, actually I think that they it
did. But I think one of the scenes in
the book, Captain Randall has a knife up to Claire's throat the
first time when Jamie comes in with the pistol through the
window. But in the show, it's her

(02:43:07):
nipple. And I was like, like, I just
feel like sometimes like that. I was like, I feel like you
could have just left it out of her throat.
I don't know. I think that 15 seconds after he
threatens her nipple, I think hedoes hold he like backs away.
Just some of those details. I was like, I didn't need to see
that. And like, yeah.

(02:43:27):
And like in the prison scenes when Jamie is telling what had
happened to him in like all the all the torture and stuff in the
book, I don't think that Randallever.
I mean, all of it was forced. None of it was consensual.
But Randall took his time to make it as miserable as possible

(02:43:52):
and never just like dove in there.
And in the show, when Jamie first is, like, I said, I'm not
going to resist, but I'm not going to capitulate.
Like Randall's like, all right, let's do it.
And he, like, throws Jamie down at the table and, like, forces
him, like, forces brutally. And I was like, OK, there's
already enough in here that's like, horrible that we have to

(02:44:15):
watch. And so it's like, do we really
need to also include like a really rough version of this?
I don't know anyway. So yeah, I I agree with you
there was definitely. That's a good point.
Yeah. That.
Yeah. And like those scenes are so
hard to watch. I also kind of like, do the.
Yeah. And covering the eyes do a

(02:44:35):
little like the 10 seconds, yeah.
The 10 seconds, like 10 seconds,10 seconds, 10 seconds, yeah.
Not not even counting moments for someone like remarks on her
butt or what are calls. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. There's so much of that too.
Just the cat calling type stuff.But I mean, overall, I felt like

(02:44:56):
the show was a really great adaptation.
I feel like they they kept the spirit of the book through the
show. I think that the actors really
portray our characters really well.
I do agree with the criticism ofsome of the assault scenes, but
that does remain accurate to thebook and I think is probably,

(02:45:17):
yeah, probably not wildly out ofcharacter for the time.
So I think overall I think the show is worth the watch and I
love the book so I would recommend reading the book as
well. But it is a big.
It's a big but yeah, if you don't have 30 hours to dedicated
to the audio book and like a billion hours to read it, I feel

(02:45:39):
like watching the because I feellike sometimes you're like, oh,
this is like almost 2 completelydifferent, you know, pieces of
work. It's like, yeah, no, you you get
the gist. Not more than the gist.
You get the entire picture if you just watch the TV show.
OK, Sequel scoop. Yeah, the first couple seasons
did really well, as we said, andthe fans were extremely happy

(02:46:04):
with how it was so accurate and how the sex scenes were so,
again, done with care. And like, I think romance can be
like, laughed at a lot and just you can tell that they, you
know, felt. Then they did the show with
integrity. It's had booming success for
Scotland with tour like tourism.It's been nominated for some

(02:46:25):
awards. And yeah, I am really, really
excited for this was recently announced.
But there's going to be a prequel with Jamie's parents
even after season 8 raps this year.
And Diana's going to be the executive producer.
So, you know, yeah, it'll be like super accurate.
Yeah, yeah. To the whole series.

(02:46:47):
We hear a little bit in the book, yes, of book one, a little
bit of the sort of like romance that happened between Jamie's
parents and a little bit of their early marriage and that
kind of thing. But I think that a prequel show
could be really exciting and with the author on board, like
she's gonna have great contributions, you know?

(02:47:09):
Totally. It'll be great.
Yeah, so the the show isn't ending per SE.
Got a reboot company. So.
We've got that to look forward to.
Any final thoughts before we wrap up?
No, I think that we did great, got sickness bug, we covered it
all and then some. No, truly, thank you so much for

(02:47:31):
doing this. Thank you for all the time that
you've put in doing your rewatchand your reread and then this
recording. I really, really appreciate it.
Had a great time. I'm so I'd love to come back.
You're welcome to come back anytime.
Can you tell the listeners wherethey can find you and anything
else you want to plug? Yeah, sure.
I have my YouTube channel, whichis Laura's library card.

(02:47:52):
I am not the most consistent of content creators, but if you
would want to check that out andhear a little bit more about
what I'm currently reading, you're welcome to check me out
on YouTube and sort of the same thing on Instagram.
But I hardly ever post on Instagram.
So I just wanted to say thanks for having me and I had a really
fun time. I enjoyed my reread because I

(02:48:12):
love Outlander the whole series.Me too.
I wanted to appreciate, I wantedto say thank you for for
inviting me onto your channel, into your podcast, to your
space. Yeah, it was a pleasure to have
you come back anytime and everybody go check out Laura's
YouTube channel. Thanks so much.
And that's the story of Outlander.
Thank you so much for listening,and thank you to Laura for

(02:48:35):
joining me on today's show. If you haven't already, follow
me on socials at Ready to Be Romance.
I post a lot of clips of US podcasting, as well as fan art
and videos and memes from all the books that we've covered, as
well as quizzes about the episode or questions we posed.

(02:48:55):
Wonder why is we posed in the episode?
So you can see what other ready to be romanced listeners think
about the book. If you haven't, you can also
subscribe and leave a rating andreview for the show on Apple
Podcasts or Spotify. This really helps listeners find
the show and see what it's all about before pressing play, and

(02:49:16):
maybe your review can have them give the podcast a shot.
So it's super, super helpful andreally important that you leave
a rating and review. If you've been enjoying the
podcast. If you want to suggest a book or
leave a voicemail with a question for a future episode,
you can do so via the links in the episode show notes.

(02:49:37):
Our next episode is The Trouble with Hating You.
Until then, happy reading for Ready to be Romanced.
I'm Tori. Goodbye.

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