The Hating Game by Sally Thorne (and Movie Adaptation Review)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:20):
Welcome to Ready to be Romanced.I'm Tori.
And I'm Becky. And today we're discussing.
The hating game. Welcome back to our TBR.
How are you doing? I'm doing so good, it is such a
thrill to be back. I have to say, I feel like a lot
of my favorite books lately havebeen been discussed with you.

(00:44):
Like just this book was so fun and the previous episodes that
we discussed books like those books still stick with me.
So you're like my lucky charm ina way.
OK, I love that because I feel like especially one of my
friends, Haley, every time I recommend a book or she reads it
because of this podcast, she's like, it was the worst book I've
ever read. And I'm like, I'm so sorry.

(01:06):
No, like I feel like it's alwayslike, cuz like we read the worst
guy. We read unhoney and like I don't
know what it was, but like both of those books, like I still
talk about maybe it was just like, yeah, like my state of
mind when I was reading it and it was just like the panacea I
needed. But I'm just like, I think we're
each other's. Good luck book charms.

(01:26):
I know I like that because I'm not for a lot of other people.
So I think, Oh my God. Damn, on your podcast Too Stupid
to Live, you're covering $5 romance novels?
That is correct. So I feel like you run the
gambit of like gambit. Gambit.
Gambit sounds smart. Sounds right to me either.
I couldn't say anything. I'd be like.

(01:48):
Her I feel like I feel like you have a book podcast, you're
like, you gotta. Nail the I know, but this just
like goes to show you that like I feel like people always equate
books with like this academic world.
And it's so pretentious. Exactly.
It's not that at all. Like I know you could be really
dumb and like like me and be reader.

(02:12):
Me covering some of the romanticy like books I'm like I
don't know what happened like. At all.
And that's fine. Like I feel like reading isn't
like reading isn't limited to like one type of person.
Totally, totally, that's true. What have you been covering
lately on your pod or like do you have any good reads so far
in 2025? Yeah, so on the pod, I've been

(02:35):
kind of going a little bonkers with the monster romance, I'm
not gonna lie, the high concept stuff.
Yeah. So this month we reviewed a re a
retelling, the Katy Robert Beauty and the Beast retelling,
which was so much fun. I think it might have scared the
guests, but we had so much fun discussing it.

(02:57):
And then I we reviewed the the second Mothman book I've ever
read like a Mothman monster romance.
And it ended up being like, honestly, like better than like
human on human, like, like just like it usually is.
But it's just like this really like, like the Mothman.

(03:18):
I mean, I could talk about this for hours, but like the Mothman
was like, you know, as a, like asex worker in this world.
And he just like the way he understood like consent and
human sexuality and like what pleasure means and his, and like
his growth. I'm like, he is, he's a Mothman
and he is more fleshed out than Christian Grey in all three of
them. You know what?

(03:39):
I. Mean.
Really. OK, I have to read that.
It's so funny though. I was like, do I draw the line
at Mothman? Like I will read reverse harem.
I'll read any monster book, any kink bug.
But is it moths that I? Is it a Mothman that I draw the
line? Yeah, I think for me, like I I

(04:00):
have yet to read anything with like a snake.
Like I don't like snakes and I don't like cockroaches.
And like, so the moth was like the the closest like bug based
thing that I've gotten to. And that's not even real, you
know? But yeah.
So I feel like it's like there'ssome things that if you just
find like icky and uncanny, it'slike, OK.

(04:21):
Reading the monster romance version of it is like, you know,
learning to ride a bike for the first time and you can be so
proud of yourself. I was just going to say maybe
it's kind of like exposure therapy.
That's exactly it. Yeah.
Yeah, that's so. Funny, that's so funny.
I've yet to read like a SentientPumpkin Man or like S'more or

(04:42):
like whatever those books are that I see on TikTok, but I'm
sure it's coming down the line at some point.
It's gonna happen. It's just gonna be one of those
days. We were like, I've read the
whole world. I need something else.
And suddenly and suddenly, that's what I pick up, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, I feel like we should get
into it. Spoiler warning for everybody.

(05:03):
We're going to be discussing TheHating Game and its movie
adaptation, so spoilers ahead. The book is written by Sally
Thorne and it was published August 9th, 2016.
I will say it doesn't read like a 2016 book.
I thought it like stood the testof time and I never say that for
2016 books. I, I mean, yeah, I feel like in

(05:25):
my brain there's pre 20/16/2016,yes.
And then like pandemic and stuff, but it's like, oh, I
couldn't believe that these characters have been through the
2020 pandemic. Like, yeah, like it's not like
saying that they've both been through some shit, you know,
totally, all this collective trauma.
Totally. Yeah.
I I, I like first, like I originally thought it was 2020

(05:46):
cuz the movie came out in 2021. So I was like, oh, maybe it came
out in 2020. But yeah, I didn't realize it
was 2016, which is like a whole different era.
Totally. And our main character is Lucy
Hudden, who is an executive assistant to ACEO of a
publishing house and she works across the, I guess, hall or

(06:07):
space from her mortal enemy, Josh Temple Templeman.
Templeman Oh my God. By the way, my brother's name is
Josh Feldman. And so it was really.
Hard though, yeah. Like it was so hard he so if I
don't call him Josh, that's why I love it.
That's so funny. And he's also an executive

(06:30):
assistant to the other CEO because they had to do a big
merger because the book industrywas flopping.
And one side, I guess the Gammonpublishing side, is like very
what we would if we ran a publishing from a publishing
house. It would be, you know,
passionate about books, magic, like warm, cozy vibes, artsy,

(06:56):
creative. And then there's the Bexley
side. That's like sales money, Gray
glass power suits. Yeah, like it's like the people,
they don't, it makes it seem like they don't even read the
books. Exactly.
They truly don't. Yeah, they don't.
Yeah, and they hate each other. Right.

(07:19):
And just so everyone knows, you're using air quotes with
Nate. I'm using air quotes because
they are fucking crazy. Like I just want to say yes.
Can we just actually talk for like 2 seconds about how Lucy
and Josh are fucking freaks? So I thank.
You and like this is like what is this is what I love about

(07:43):
this trope is that enemies to lovers makes people in makes the
characters are insane because they are so obsessed with
whatever they don't need to be obsessed with.
And like, honestly, I like it because it makes me feel better
as a person when I get like crazy about things.
It's like, OK, I'm not the only one.
Literally. Like absolutely nuts.

(08:04):
And I get it and and I would be too if I were in that situation.
The way that Lucy describes Josh, I was like, I would be
that crazy. Too, Like, yes, yes, yeah.
Like the fact that, like she remembers the order of like when
he wears his shirts. Like, I like the fact that she
doesn't get the two Blues, you know, like, I'm just like,
you're you. Can we also talk about how great

(08:26):
your mind is? Like no, I know Prodigy.
I know they're both like extremely type A and like they
they clearly are like not near adivergent or like neither of
them have ADHD or anything. No, no, no, yeah, they're, I
think they're just like, so likewrapped up, like I, I think,
well, I mean, I think a big partof The thing is that like the,

(08:48):
the, a big theme in the book is that like, you can't hate
someone if you don't love someone.
And I think it's like, oh, so these two people confused love
for hate, and they were just so in love with each other when
they met. They didn't know what to do with
themselves, and they just went nuts.
And that's the fun of the book. It truly is.
They like copy each other. They're always one upping each
other. They have like rude nicknames

(09:10):
like she calls. I guess she just calls him like
Joshua. Yeah.
Instead of like, I guess everyone else, says Josh.
And then he calls her Shortcake because she grew up on a
strawberry farm. Yes.
The other bone I have to pick and then I will stop being
negative negative. No, it's totally cool.
Oh my God, because strawberry farms are weird.

(09:31):
But yes, go on. But she's like, she's like, I'm
so like quirky because I grew upon like a strawberry farm and
like, and I was like, no, I feellike no one cares about that.
Like I. Know, yeah.
Yeah, like she catch me and likeI'm so like hillbilly or
whatever. And I was like, I don't know.
I don't think anyone's saying that.
Yeah. And it's like, it's kind of more

(09:52):
interesting, like, like, you know, like, she is so lonely and
quirky. And it's like, oh, there was
like another back story to that because she was always such a
bookworm. And like, she only had work
friends. And then the merger happens and
now she has no friends. And it's like, that stuff is
like, that's what makes you quirky.
It's not necessarily like the strawberry farm.
It's a strawberry farm and that you're like uncharacteristically

(10:13):
short like. Yes, which everyone like, I mean
that to me. I was like, welcome to my life
like. No, I know, I know, I know.
But it's funny because like I would, I'll also say we are
quirky girls. But like, if you're like, what
are, if someone asks me, Tori, what are your quirks?
I'm not going to be like, well, I grew up on like on a farm that

(10:35):
my parents worked at and like I'm 5 foot one.
Exactly, I would be like, I enjoy watching really weird
cleaning videos at 3:00 AM, you know?
That's what makes me quirky. I just read a moth man book
like. Exactly.
That's what and and it's all I think about basically.
I do have ADHD, so I do blame that.

(10:56):
Yeah. So I am like, OK, it helps with
the quirkiness, but no, I feel like it is just like the weird
fixation. It's like people's weird
fixations that make of quirky. It's not necessarily like the
the location where they're from.That sounds like every farm
child would be weird, and they're not.
I know, I know. I was like, yeah, like the the
quirky thing is that, you know, Josh's shirt rotation.

(11:20):
His quirky thing is that he has a shirt rotation.
Yeah, exactly. And and that he knows that, you
know, and that's what's so hilarious about it is that like
they both like are playing thesequote UN quote games and like
doing and that is their way of showing love.
And I love it. As an immature person myself, I
love it. I know it's so like school

(11:42):
schoolyard banter and like, it'sjust really funny when she's
like the way that you win is youeither like make the person
laugh or cry and like, it's always like, I'm going to beat
you at this instead of it. It is it is really fun.
But they find out that there's anew job opening at the company.
Chief operations officer and both Mr. Bexley and Helene.

(12:09):
Elaine. I don't know.
She's French. Yeah.
And I listened to the audio book, so I should have nailed
that name. It's like, I think it's like
Helen Helen Bono Carter vibes. Yeah.
Yeah, but they are basically both to Lucy and Josh, like
you're applying and getting thisjob because you basically do

(12:29):
this stuff for us already. That would make the other one
the other person's boss. So they both really, really,
really want it. Yeah, and they both decide, but
they both have these like a hugeamount of hubris.
Is that the right word? I don't know.
But like this pride that like, if they decide if you're gonna

(12:53):
get this job and I don't, I haveto leave.
You can never be my boss. I will never bow down to you.
In the corporate. World, yeah.
And that's like a big thing. So when they have this game,
they're not only competing for superiority, but competing for a
job. And that's like, I mean, I guess
this is 2016 and maybe there were more jobs available, but.

(13:14):
Yeah. Very.
Thought, yeah, no one's doing that in 2025.
No, yeah, that's so. True, and at the meeting that
the CE OS announced this, Lucy actually meets this cute
designer and it's his last week of work.
But she's like, Oh my God, I wish I'd met someone like him

(13:34):
sooner because he's like, so nice and cute and funny and
like, we work in like, you know,similar industries.
And he's like blatantly flirtingwith her.
Yeah, he seems like on paper, like this is like in a different
book, he'd be the guy, you know?And totally 100.
Percent. If we're friends to lovers, yes.
Yes. Exactly and she feels like a

(13:57):
spark of like like this could besomething because I literally
have no friends and no romantic prospects because I work so hard
and everyone kind of treats me like a doormat.
So I like basically only like can do this job and then like go
home and sleep. Poor girl.
But things take a turn when Lucyhas a sex dream about Josh.

(14:18):
Isn't this this classic? Like classic.
Sex dream. And she is so disturbed.
She is so disturbed, but she's equally like she I think she
feels like she has to win and how she's like, Oh my God, I'm
horny for this guy. How can I win?
I'll make him horny for me. So the next day she goes into

(14:39):
work in the shortest black dressand Josh immediately questions
it. And she's like, well, I have a
date tonight. And Josh is like, oh,
interesting. Like I'm going out too.
And they figure out that they both are going to the same place
at the same time. But I didn't know.
And like, spoiler alert, if you are like reading as you go or
whatever, even though I don't think anyone is doing that.

(14:59):
But it's like he thought that that was like their setup, yes,
because he thought that it was fake and that when he was
sharing details that he was going there, he thought that it
was for them to get together. Yeah, he really did.
Like, I think the whole like thelike there's this whole thing of
like, oh, you think he's such a Dick, You think he's such a

(15:20):
Dick. And then he's just this
sweetheart all along. I mean, I guess I just said
that's like that's even stated in the book, you know?
But yeah, it is just like a lot of like Josh puts himself in
situations where he looks like ahuge asshole.
Yep. And he doesn't even realize.
Totally, totally. And that like really plagues him
throughout the book. Like he thinks he's such a bad

(15:42):
guy. He thinks he's like, mean and he
thinks women only like, want himfor his looks and stuff like
that. And that is like really
interfering with maybe one of the reasons why he doesn't
choose to initially pursue Lucy.Yeah, And I actually really love
that aspect because like, I don't know, I feel like a lot of
people are like they don't thinkthat they can get past their

(16:04):
mistakes. It's like once a rake, always a
rake, and you're just going to be a rake and like just like
accept it. Like, I don't know, I just, I
guess maybe in the point of my life now that touched me because
it's like, oh, recognizing you can change and you're not
defined by the one mistake you made in your past, you know?
Totally, totally. I liked that part.
Lucy doesn't know that this is like, this is the conversation

(16:26):
that Josh is having with her. She's not in that conversation.
And I. Love it.
They both are just in their own world and it's so.
Great. And I relate to this so much.
But she's like, fuck, I gotta make dinner plans now.
So she asks Danny to go out and he accepts.

(16:47):
And I think it's like raining. Her car's in the shop.
So Josh offers to drive her. But plot twist, because, again,
I think he thinks that they're about to go on a date.
Yeah, but he in the elevator, hepicks her up and kisses her.
And it's like a hot, steamy. I love office romances.
Yes, yes, I love them in books, in real life.

(17:10):
In real life, like please pleasedo not do this.
Yes. But I I particularly love like,
you know, it was a really sexy like the elevator.
I love a good stop the elevator we have to kiss moment like.
Has that ever happened to anybody in real life?
Weigh in if this has happened toyou and you're like.

(17:31):
You and like also did you fake like I feel like if I were in a
building and I just hit the emergency thing on the elevator,
like you could, could you get a violation like, you know, like
it calls? 911 I'm pretty sure, like I
swear to God it calls 911 immediately like it dispatches
911. Yeah, that is so funny.
Like if I were reading a book and that happened and then like,

(17:52):
it's like they kiss, then they stop the elevator, but then they
come down and there's just like the fire.
Yeah. The.
The firefighters? No, seriously, because I'm
pretty sure it like it either dispatches an operator who
figures out what's going on or immediately like emergency
services. Right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also I'm claustrophobic.
I would hate, I would actually hate this.

(18:15):
There's still lack of like, I hate it when like if there was
like an AC in like I need airflow.
Yes, yes, yes. So with yeah, no airflow, it's
like it's stuffy. I can't.
I can't be sexy in there. No, no, definitely not.
But he drops her off and she's like, shocked.
She like doesn't know how to function.
She can like barely sit in the car.

(18:36):
Yeah, cuz she just had like the most amazing kiss in the entire.
World and she's like a touch starved like love her.
I've been there. But like, yeah, she's like, she
is kind of freaking out to the point where she leaves her
jacket in the car. When she sees Danny, she like,
almost falls off the chair and can't even answer, like, the

(18:59):
most simple of questions that he's asking her.
So she has to go to the bathroomto, like, calm herself down.
And Josh runs in with her jacket.
And he is clearly so jealous. Yes, he is mad because like,
obviously like he's not, he's not only jealous but like his
plan is whatever is spoiled is spoiled.

(19:21):
Yeah, but also, like, I feel like she gets upset because
Danny says she looks beautiful and like that.
That is right. Yes, you're right.
You're right. And that kind of is like that's.
Also like kind of triggering. Yeah, like I think it's kind of
like what you were talking aboutis like, oh, she hasn't been
kissing forever, but she hasn't been romanced in forever.
And I think maybe that was like,whatever.

(19:43):
Yeah, yeah. But she, I guess has a nice
date. And after the date, she gets a
bouquet of roses, and it says you're always beautiful, which
she thinks is from Danny becausehe called her beautiful.
Yeah, but when she was freaking out with Josh, she was saying
that she was freaking out because he called her beautiful.

(20:05):
Yeah, or like he said, she looked beautiful today.
And so Josh's response in Through the Roses is like, no,
you're always beautiful. And I'm just like that.
Yes, I there are moments in romances where like, it's just
like a specific phrase or a specific line that will stick.
With me and this is it. Like this, that that one was

(20:27):
like up there with a lot of my favorite moments of like a
romantic gesture. Is that like just saying you're
always beautiful? I know, I know.
It's so good and like, and what do you think truly was the
catalyst for Josh? Because I I got one other like
small criticism of this book is just like, it does seem like

(20:49):
like all of it. It's like they've been working
together for like over a year and nothing's happened.
What like popped the balloon? Because I feel like he obviously
thinks that well, like that he kissed her, that he set up this
like date and that he sent her flowers, which she doesn't know
that stuff, but like he all of asudden is pursuing her really

(21:12):
hard. Yeah, yeah.
And like, I agree with you. Like, it.
I it kind of, there isn't reallylike much of an inciting
incident to like, get him going.I mean, you do have this back
story of like he had a previous girlfriend, blah, blah, blah.
And then he, you know, always thought he wasn't the nice guy.
But yeah, there wasn't like a moment that made that where he

(21:32):
admits like, oh, it was when, I don't know, you came in in the
dress, which that's not the right moment, but like, or, you
know. Or like did did he see Danny and
her flirting in the meeting maybe?
Yeah, yeah, I it was like that. I mean, I guess me like I would
want it like if he said the moment I knew I wanted to pursue

(21:52):
you was when like you like accidentally dropped a Smurf
figuring in the trash. I'm like, yes, gosh, yes.
Also quirky. That's quirky.
That is why you're quirky, lady.Because of The Smurfs, not
because of the farm. Are you kidding me?
And. That you're so short like.

(22:13):
A lot of short, uncorky people. Girl, you collect Smurf
figurines. Yeah, that's not the first thing
you say. Was like why are you?
So bizarre. Yeah, so funny.
They the office all heads to paintballing as a team bonding
activity and Josh is super annoyed when Danny and Lucy are

(22:37):
like flirting in front of him. Loved this scene on the bus.
Lucy and Josh are teamed up together for a bunch of the,
like, paintballing and he's likesuper protective, especially
when a colleague kind of takes it a little too seriously.
Yeah, yeah. But then she gets like super

(22:57):
I'll. Yeah, like Lucy, which again,
this is very funny of like, and I think I, I wonder if they if
it if it kind of played more in the movie, but it made it seem
like Lucy is like, no matter what, I am taking Josh down.
I refuse to drink water, eat food and do anything healthy all
day. And I will not, I will not stop.

(23:19):
And so she like essentially in away like makes herself sick,
which is like very fun. Yes, yes, And she's like
describing about how like the gear is so heavy.
She's probably like dehydrated, like she's just making probably
it way worse than it it would have been.
Yeah, and she probably like, I think it, she even mentions that
she ate like leftovers that probably had gone bad.

(23:40):
So it's like everything she did was wrong and like it.
And it's like, again, it's such a human.
That's why I love enemies, love her so much, because it's just
these human dumb mistakes that we all make when we're just
like, just when we think we hatesomeone.
Yes, yes. Or you have a crush on someone
and you like are driving and miss a turn or something like
that. Yeah.
Exactly. It's like when you get like

(24:01):
obsessed with something where you like cannot think
rationally. Like that's the most human
thing. And it's like, that's what I
love about this me. Too.
So he takes her home and takes care of her overnight.
She is like, I'll, I'll like. Yes, like he's holding back her
hair as she barks. Yes, which I I know that's like

(24:22):
a scene in a lot out of books like it's AI feel like it's
something that we. It's a true yes, it's a true.
I just think if I'm throwing up I want everyone to get away from
me. Right now no one can come near
me. Like if for some reason it's
just my thing of like if it's stomach related everyone out.
Oh, totally. No one 100% I I would have died

(24:45):
and like she's so sick that he'slike changing her.
Did she pee the bed? No, she didn't.
But like basically. Like, it's a good question,
though, because, like, she does not get up from the bed, you
know? Like, she's in bed for a long
time. Yeah.
But on the bright side, Josh's brother Patrick is a doctor and

(25:05):
so he's able to do a little house call for her and get her
some medicine. And he's hot too.
Of course Lucy realizes this because they look alike.
But as she's like coming in and out of consciousness, she is
overhearing a conversation between Josh and Patrick about
how he hasn't RSVP D to Mindy and Patrick's wedding that

(25:29):
happens to be that weekend, Which is wild to not RSVP D the
week before. What a shit like honestly, like
I think that is such a shitty thing to do Like if like what is
your like that is so it's not like do it.
Putting together a wedding is like having a part time job and
like I some if someone didn't ours if RSVP until the week

(25:51):
before they're dead to me. 100% slash like you straight up can't
do that like the the vendors need head counts the hotel well
was all booked. We do, actually, that is true.
But. Yes.
I mean, there is that, but then there's also like you have to
like sign liability issues and there's like insurance and
stuff. I mean, again, we're looking in

(26:11):
the minutia. It doesn't matter.
But it is just the lack of and this is a full wedding.
It's not like, oh, we're doing aprivate thing in our backyard.
Like they're having a full on wedding that was obviously in
the works and it's like, you're not mad.
I'd be like texting someone every 5 minutes within two weeks
of sending out my wedding invitation.
Of course, of course, absolutely.

(26:33):
We do get Danny also checking inon her so that's really nice.
And he offers to pick her up from work.
He's now off of work so he's is able to pick her up and drive
her and she immediately is just like, this is not going to work.
Like I hate the casual clothes you're getting.
He gets her daisies and she's just like oh, like, OK.
Like it doesn't hit like the redroses.

(26:56):
Exactly is she? He is just not the one for her.
Totally but he does want to see her again and she doesn't want
him to do this but he literally walks her to her desk.
And so obviously Josh and Danny have like a little bit of a
confrontation and when he leavesshe notices a single red rose on

(27:16):
her desk. And Josh reveals cuz he's like
they're like getting into an argument and then Mr. Bexley
overhears and then reprimands them and so he grabs the Rose
back and like reveals that he sent her the original roses but
he like cuts her hand too. Like it is bad.

(27:36):
It's really bad. It is bad.
It's like, oh, your heart race alittle bit, yeah.
Yeah, and Lucy feels because again, she's always worried that
the power imbalance or like whoever's winning the race, like
she cares so much about that andshe thinks it's uneven because
he spent the the night caring for her.

(27:57):
So she goes, Kay, well, I have to do you a favor because you
did me a favor. So I'll be your plus one to
Patrick's wedding, naturally. Great.
Yeah, that's of course you don'tlike me at all.
I will go and spend a weekend with you.
This is going to be great. You're welcome.

(28:17):
And she feels, she feels bad, sobad that she pulls him into a
storage closet. And this is like, like, really
crazy because they do talk when she's sick, that she like, liked
kissing him and like all of thisstuff.
But it's like really heating up.She's saying that like, she

(28:39):
doesn't like Danny in that way and that basically she wants to
be friends with Josh or something.
And yeah. And he's like, oh, like what's
the OR something? And they kiss.
Yeah, even another. Kiss, It's steamy, she says put
your hands on me and he says putthem on yourself or something
like that. It was so sexy.

(29:01):
Yeah, Yeah. It reminded me of this College
Humor, like sketch show that hadlike two seasons on YouTube back
in like, probably like 2010. And it was about colleagues
hooking up and they would alwaysbe in like a storage room and
stuff like that. So I was having those flashbacks

(29:23):
because for some reason it's like I've worked in an office my
whole life and it's like they'realways in a storage room with
like paper products and like toilet paper.
And I was like, we didn't even, I don't even think we have one
of those. That are in normal and it's like
they're always they're just so conveniently unlocked
conveniently like right when you're having the you're about

(29:44):
to yell. Luckily the doors right behind
you. Like I love it.
I love and yeah. And it's like also like like no
one uses paper anymore. I mean, I guess some people use,
but do you know what I mean? Like it's just like this old
school nineties office kind of setup worth like like.
Literally, literally, literally he says go on your date with

(30:05):
Danny and kiss him. I want you to kiss him.
And if, if you can tell me that their kiss wasn't as good as
his, they can resume whatever game they're playing.
Mm hmm. Mm hmm and he gives her where
like his address because they are going to a wedding together.

(30:27):
So the date rolls around and they do have their first kiss,
Danny and Lucy, but it's super meh.
Yeah, it's not obviously, which we all knew it would.
Be which we all knew, but know what I actually thought when I
was reading this that Danny was gonna like super pursue her and
be weird, but he's just like, Ohyeah, like I think we're both
like friends and I was like, OK.Yeah, he felt it too.

(30:50):
It was nice. Yeah, it was nice.
Like yeah, hashtag not on there.Yes, yeah, literally, literally.
And then Lucy does the most insane thing but like.
Again, again, she's just like, Ihave his, I have Josh's address.
I am going to go to his house, that is and stalk him.

(31:14):
That is so insane. It is so insane and I get it.
And I get it. And like, I've probably been
there too. But she is looking at everything
like cracks in the sidewalk and like the the lights on the
street and like the gym nearby, just envisioning what this man's
life is lying. Yes, yes.

(31:34):
But she still doesn't think she loves him like this is.
I always think, like with enemies to lovers, I think
there's always that tension of like, does it get so much that
it's like you're actually just adummy if you don't know this by
now? For sure.
Yeah, 'cause like I feel like when like as readers, like I
you, it's easy to get ahead of the story and you're just like

(31:56):
kind of like waiting for the characters to be like, come on,
let's do it, let's go here. I thought it was interesting
because it was like she definitely owns that she's horny
for him. The love thing, like the full on
like I love him like, or like she like she reveals.
Do you know what I mean? Like she reveals that she's
horny and like won't reveal thatshe's obsessed with him, which

(32:19):
who wants to reveal? They have weird obsessions with
people. Fine.
But yeah, like definitely like it was so clear that, but like
she could have gotten around to the L word earlier for sure.
Totally, totally. Cuz it came to such a surprise
to her at the end. Yeah, like she was like cuz, he
says. Like when he says I love you,
she's like me and she just. Read. 200 pages of this and.

(32:44):
Yeah, she's like, like direct quote.
She's like, like Josh is in lovewith me and I'm madly in love
with him. And I was.
Like, yeah. And I was like, are you?
It was like almost like she was saying it as if there was
another woman this whole time. Like just he's doing and he's
just having a different romance and he has to.
And it's. Like, like his mom wasn't like,

(33:05):
oh, Josh calls me every week andI've heard about every fucking
detail about your life. Exactly.
Yeah. And like, they know each other.
I mean, at this point, they haveseen each other at their most
vulnerable, from being sick to being naked.
Like. And it's like, what?
Like, come on, Lucy, you're smarter than this.

(33:25):
But Josh texts her and says how was the kiss like they she
doesn't respond and then he finds her outside and he doesn't
think it's psycho and that's when like they are matching each
other's freak. Yeah, because he is.
Let's not forget he is insanely psycho.
Like he's. Like, because like you like

(33:46):
later on in the book when it's like they're kind of putting
down their walls and they're kind of like mentioning, like
when they started liking each other.
He was like, I fell in love withyou the second day I met you.
That means there was a year of him psychotically being in love
with that's. So fucking real.
Yeah. And so it's like, oh, that's
that's insane too. Where like, it does like kind of

(34:08):
equate with, OK, she went to hishouse, but like, he was also
suddenly believing in soul matesless than 24 hours after he saw
you. Like come on, you're both
insane. No, totally.
That's why they're perfect for each other.
Exactly that's why this. Works.
They kiss. He gives her the first date

(34:28):
kiss, and she straight up tries to run away, but he drags her up
and she's like, OK, like, we're going to have sex.
Like, this is awesome. And he makes her tea.
They watch ER together. Love it.
But this is another, this is another, like, moment.
She finds, like, a piece of origami that she made out of,

(34:48):
like, a scrap of paper in his house that she, yeah, that she,
like, was just like, you know, not doodling, but like, fiddling
during a meeting, made an origami.
Whatever. And that's in his house.
And she's like, he hates me. Like, yeah.
And like, there's also like she,like, you know, a big, like,
kind of symbol of what it is. Like, she has her red lipstick.

(35:10):
Yeah. She blocks it.
And he has the tissue and like, that's weird.
Yeah. Like.
And the mints. The Mints.
Yeah, the mints and like even inthe book, like when they when
she describes him, when he's like kind of, you know, like and
at an intense emotional state, like she jokingly refers to it
as serial killer eyes. And it's like this easily in a

(35:30):
different genre. Could be a stalker novel like
no. Seriously.
Seriously. And that's what I love.
Yes, I love on TikTok when they will like when people will edit
a trailer of a movie that's like, you know, happy or
whatever to a thriller. Yeah, people could do this with
this book. Absolutely.
Like I did, like I one time was like looking at the dialogue to

(35:53):
Silence of the Lambs and then the dialogue in this like,
Drupal book that I read, the same.
They're the fucking same, you know, like, just like if you
said the Silence of the Lambs stuff.
A little hornier. Yeah, a little huskier,
definitely. That's definitely in the book.
Like it's just so it's hilariousto me and I love it.

(36:13):
I love it. That's so fucking funny.
So sometime passes but Lucy misses Josh so much that she
calls him and asks if they couldhang out.
He's at the gym, she's at her house.
They both cuz they again fuckingfreaks race home and she's like,
I won and he's like, I got to the the parking garage early and

(36:38):
like so I won. And then he makes her dinner.
She's like, OK, like now this isthe time that we're going to
have sex. And he's like, I don't want to
do that. Like I don't, I feel like you'll
freak out if we have sex right away.
I feel like you need to be easedinto it.
And I feel like also like this isn't that like it isn't going

(36:59):
to be like a one night stand. Right, Yeah, She's kind of along
the lines of like, let's like weget it out of our.
System maybe this tension? Yes, yes, yes.
And he's like, no, I'm in love with.
You that. Would make it everything even
work? Well, he doesn't say that
overtly, but like, he's like, no.
Yeah, she's you're right. She's so blind to it that she's
like, if we just fuck, then I like, then I can go back to

(37:21):
living my hateful life. Yeah.
And he's like, no, I like, cannot have that.
That's what's so funny to me when people are like, Oh my God,
just fuck already. And it's like you're think, are
you thinking about the after effects of yeah, yeah, totally.
Like live the rest of their daysknowing they fucked like.
Literally, literally, this is really hot.

(37:43):
So the one of the subplots is that Josh did a year of medical
school and his dad and his brother are obviously doctors.
And so they do like a little doctor role play where he's
like, yeah, taking her pulse. And he's saying how?
And she's like, this is like, isthis like a thing for you?
And then he says that he does like when she dresses up as a

(38:06):
sexy librarian, like cuz she's so buttoned up.
Mm, hmm, mm, hmm. There was a lot of lot of like
body exploration in this, like within this within their first
sex scene that I like, really like, really liked of like they
give each other a tour of each other's bodies, you know, in
this part, you know, and I'm like, this is hot.

(38:28):
This is hot. You, you should have seen me.
So I listened to part of this audio book when I was like on a
treadmill at my gym. And the way that an audio like
this is an audio only platform, so this isn't gonna play well on
the pod. But the way that I was like
walking on the treadmill being like like hands on my forehead

(38:49):
and like there was parts. I was like like I was like
aghast. If anyone, if anyone would
looked over at me, they thought something was going on.
But like Sally, Thorne can writea sex scene.
It's so well, so well, and like she like takes.
What's your time with that? And yes, yes.

(39:09):
And like, that is like, one of the joys of romance novels, I
think. And that's just like, I don't
know, It was just like, really delightful.
Like, even, I don't know, like, we're human beings are always so
in a rush. And everyone's saying we have to
have sex three times a week. And so we are all just, like,
rushing through it. And then it's like, oh, you read
this and you're like, Oh, yeah, remember, like, like slowing

(39:32):
things down and like getting to know the situation, like giving
ourselves time. Yeah.
Yeah, I can't remember the last time that happened to me, but.
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's never happened to me, but sometimes
like but I did cuz like I personally I'm always like OK,
but but like and so like I'm like OK, if I ever do start

(39:54):
dating again and I'm in a relationship, like I'm gonna
remember this. No, this was like, I know.
And it was like, sensual and like, yeah.
It was like good foreplay. But yeah, I I was impressed with
Sally Thorne. It was.
So great. It was really like, I feel like
a lot like like I mean, again, Iknow nothing about real life
human relationships, but if likemarried people should read that
and like be like reignite your thing if you're feeling like you

(40:19):
know. Totally 100%.
Again, I don't know what I'm talking about though 'cause I'm.
Oh, no, yeah, no, I'm just happily 100%.
Yeah, yeah, no, I'm just hypothesizing.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure.
So the next day at work, they try to act normal even though,
you know, obviously something's going on with them.

(40:41):
And we really see that Lucy and Josh, like, push each other and
make each other grow because, again, a lot of colleagues take
advantage of Lucy by asking for,like, extensions and stuff.
And Josh is like, you need to like nip that in the bud and
like kind of not forces her, butlike really encourages her to do

(41:03):
that. Yeah.
Like be like you're allowed to say no, or you're allowed to say
like you can't do that. Blah blah blah.
I like. I also like in romance novels
where it's like they make each other better.
I know, yeah. That's like, so it's like what's
it's like part of the sport of the romance in a way of like,
oh, these are the steps in orderto get to that because you need
a happily ever after. You get better.

(41:24):
You know what I mean? Like it's like an important step
along the way. Exactly, exactly.
He does like kind of revert whenMr. Bexley is there to his old
self and then she gets confused and upset and then he gets more
upset when she's upset and Oh myGod you guys stop.
Like, Oh my God, yes, yeah, it is.
Like, it does. That stuff gets so frustrating

(41:45):
but I also love it. Me too.
I know, I know. It is that tension and she is
prepping for her interview for the CEO position and they have
to like do a presentation on howthey could like, I don't know,
like rework ebooks. Yeah, but it's like some sort of
like, yeah, like like it felt red like, oh, we'll put like all

(42:07):
of the books in our catalogue that weren't e-books.
We'll just make them e-books or something like that.
It was like something and so inconsequential, but it was
going to be big in the story so.Huge in the story.
Yeah. And she does a mock presentation
for Helen Helene or whatever. And she's like, this is great,
but you should punch it up by actually showing like an example

(42:29):
of this. Could you get a designer to like
fully action out your plan? And then it would really impress
this super objective third partyconsulting firm that we have
running the interviews, right? Yeah.
And so she asked Danny, who is afreelance designer, and he

(42:50):
agrees. So he has to give her the
rundown while they're meeting ata coffee shop near the office.
Who walks in? But Josh, Yeah, it's so funny
because Danny's like, oh, like he looks pissed.
We're like spending time together because he's in love
with you. And she's like, what?

(43:12):
Josh is in love with me. And it's like, come on.
So funny, but they do say like immediately, like we're doing
something for interviews. It's like confidential.
We like, can't tell you, but like nothing nefarious is going.
On. Later at work, Lucy overhears
Mr. Bexley and Josh yelling about something, but we don't

(43:33):
know what that is. Later we find out it's because
he is intervening for another job.
Right. Yeah, but.
At the time, she's just like, oh, these two guys are like
fucking going at it. Yeah.
Like the way they're talking, it's like making it seem that
like she is getting in Josh's way or something, or like, yeah,

(43:54):
like it's like kind of, it's like not directly targeted
towards her, but like it is. And he's not saying anything.
But again, this is all just likethings are happening and she is
interpreting it in the completely wrong way because
she's insane. Insane and like doesn't ask that
many questions to figure out the.
Yes, we are just jumping to conclusions without the right

(44:17):
amount of evidence. It is what we do I love.
It yes, yeah. And like again, I'm right there
with you girl. Like I'm like Dorian Lucy, like
I would also be doing the jumping.
Yes. So they head to the wedding.
The boss sees them leaving together and she's fucking
stoked because she has also beenlike plotting to get them

(44:37):
together. Yes, yes, she sees it.
She has the wise wisdom, The wise wisdom you're welcome of
like these two need to get together.
I love how we didn't talk that. Like I was just like, yeah, the
older, the older woman with the wisdom.
Totally. And she's like kind of confused
about going on this overnight trip to this wedding, but he

(45:01):
does admit that he does want herto come.
So they go and they end up stopping at a diner for dinner.
And he says this. I, I was like fucking melting.
He was like, this is our first date because he talks about
like, you should go out for dinner.
And it was so cute. It was cute.
He gets like very cute at this wedding weekend, you know, like

(45:23):
that. I mean, again, that was huge
drama happens, but like just like the way like just seeing
them not at work like was, I don't know, everything was so
cute. So cute.
And he was always like touching her arm or like, like just, it
was like very, very cute. And they were just like, asking
each other's questions and like.Getting to know.
Each other more and it was like it was so it was so nice.

(45:47):
It was, it was. But they have a little, like,
sexy moment in the car where they're just talking about how,
like, she has gorgeous eyes and,like, all this stuff.
And he asked her if that sex dream or like that dream.
Yeah, was, was about her. And she basically was like, I
made-up that dream. I wanted to, like, get back at

(46:08):
you, even though you didn't do anything.
The dream, actually, it wasn't me running through a maze with
mirrors or whatever, she said. Yeah, it was you banging because
what do you say? Like I'm gonna work you so hard
or something like that. Yeah, or just like it was like
something again. Serial killer flash check.
I was. Like I'm gonna work you so hard

(46:29):
you'll never know what's coming.Or like something like that
where it's like whoever, like depending on who's saying it
could be the scariest thing or the sexiest thing.
It's so funny to is that like a line that you like?
Because for me, I was like, thatdoesn't get me like horned up.
I I'm like I don't want to work that hard.
Like, you know, it's, it's interesting.

(46:50):
I think like for me, like I see it as like this, like kind of
like someone taking their masculinity and just dumping it
all over you and I, it is so scary to me.
It's like watching, it's like literally to me, it's like
watching a Magic Mike show wherelike a guy is being so overtly
sexy. It's like unreal, you know, and
you just want to like cover yourface and scream and laugh and

(47:11):
like that's and I, I love it. Totally.
Because you're right. It's like something that like in
a book that I'm like, OK, like this makes sense.
But like if someone said that tome IRL.
Yeah, like, I, I mean, that's just not real, you know, like
it's just not real. Yeah.
Like that. Like if anyone said that, I'd be
like, OK, well, if anyone said that, I'm likely visiting them

(47:31):
in jail. Like let's be.
Real. No, seriously.
Seriously. But she really liked it because
she I got freak and she like loves being type A and like
working I guess. Yes, yes.
And it just like it suits her. It gets her blood boiling.
Yeah, so funny. Could not be me.

(47:53):
They start being more truthful and she admits that the date was
fake and that she set it up because he was trying to call
her bluff. And then he says like it was
supposed to be him. I I like usually this stuff does
not work on me. I feel like I was like literally
like screaming into my pillow. Yes, why does like and that's

(48:14):
The thing is like, why does thiswork so well?
Like this book is like if I wereteaching an academic class on
romance novels and like our lesson was on enemies to lovers,
like this would be the book to use, you know, like it just
everything about it. Like, I don't know what it is
like with like every. Like, do you know how easy we
could have hated these characters?

(48:34):
So easily, so easily. Like easily could.
Have made it and we were just like rooting for them and
they're making every dumb mistake possible and we just
love them. We just love them.
Totally. That's that's so true.
Yeah, I don't know. It's like, I guess it's the
enemies to lovers where usually the if it's a hetero couple, the
like main male character like like almost like the

(48:58):
miscommunication, like he thinkshe's like putting himself out
there or whatever. She completely blows past it and
then he finally admits that he did this and she's like Oh my
God, like what? Yeah, yeah.
Cuz like there's a lot of those books where it's like, I don't
know, like, Oh my God, just havea conversation and all that
would be done. But with like this, they're so

(49:22):
headstrong in their own ways that like no shit really has to
hit the fan. But and like that, I guess maybe
that's what was so enjoyable. It's just like they weren't
afraid. Like I feel like Sally Thorne
wasn't afraid to make these characters be like ugly in a
way. Like where like they are just
like saying things that make that if we said it, we would

(49:44):
cringe or like if, if we did this, like we, if we said this
to someone, we would never be forgiven.
You know, like it's just like they are just like kind of
dipping their toe and like just ugly.
Like just not like. Not ugly, but.
Just just flawed. Like, these are my.
Yeah, yeah. OK.
Thank you for saying something that I couldn't put my finger

(50:07):
on. But that is exactly what I felt
like when I was reading this book.
I was like, they try to be so perfect and like flawless at
their work, but they're obviously like deeply flawed,
insecure at times characters andwatching them express
vulnerability or like also like people want to be so chalant.

(50:29):
Yes. People want to be so cool
nowadays and like I love that they were nonchalant.
I love that they like I get likethey were saying and sometimes I
don't like this. I kind of actually put this in
my grapes and crumbles. But like when they like
immediately jump to like kind oflike talking about like forever
stuff, but they're still like, Idon't know if I like you or
whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(50:49):
Yeah, that's always kind of a mismatch for me.
But like I I do, I liked their like almost like radical honesty
in this bug. That's it.
Radical honesty. I think that was what was so
refreshing is that like they weren't like kind of is is
pussyfooting or they weren't kind of like circling around the
fact that they want to fuck eachother.

(51:10):
They were. They are just.
So like yes. They were like, I hate you so
much and I want to fuck you so bad.
And just like it was so nice. It was so refreshing to.
Totally, totally. Yeah.
It was so refreshing because everyone's always trying to play
it cool or not show their cards or anything.
Yeah, yeah. And these people were just like,
you know what I'm not gonna like?
Like, you know, something is notworking in my brain right now.

(51:34):
But I'm just going to be so honest with you.
I am not in a good place. But we I really find you
attractive. Totally, totally.
It was I, I really liked that. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
And so they get to the hotel andwhat do you know, there's only
one bed. I mean, we needed that, guys.
We we truly needed that. So they go up to their room and

(51:57):
they start hooking up, but Josh's mom calls because he
needs to do some stuff for the wedding.
Which OK again his mom like why was his like his he again RSVP D
2 days ago and now his mom's like you need to help with this
and it's like. Bundles of flowers into the

(52:17):
like. Something like that.
You weren't like, you weren't going to ask him to do this a
few weeks before when you actually planned these things.
Like what? OK, anyway, that's a grape.
That's a grape. That's a grape.
And also he just drove 4 hours and stuff like that.
Poor guy. And also like he it's well, the
with the big reveal of who The Who he's whose brother is

(52:39):
marrying. Like I would be like, like there
was one time when I was like in college and I remember like
carrying up like a helping people carry an alcohol to their
apartment to a party I wasn't invited to.
You know. And I said.
What am I doing? You know, and it's like.
You're so funny. No but it it's true.
Like why would they ask him whenthey know this wedding is a sore

(53:04):
spot for him. He only RSVP DA week ago because
he it feels like low key abandoned by his family and like
not loved by his dad like. Yes, yeah, yeah.
And then they're like, hey, why don't you, can you do us a favor
and do something like the mom isvery much aware about the
situation and she. And then and then she's like,

(53:25):
hey, can you do this? And I'm just gonna rub happiness
in your face right now, like. And the mom knows that he's
bringing Lucy and he's actually obsessed with Lucy.
So why is she cock? Blocking like, I mean like moms
and I love them, but like moms are nuts and it's just like
again. Boy moms.

(53:47):
Boy moms, boy moms are nuts. And it's just like, I don't
know, like, who are you, you know?
Seriously. Seriously.
And so they don't do anything. They just sleep.
And the next morning they're discussing their past
relationships. And this is when my finally my
like, sirens are going off. I'm like, oh fuck.

(54:10):
Patrick is 100% marrying his ex.I here's the thing.
I clocked it so early. Oh really?
What? Tell me.
The, the second they had, the, the second that he was having,
she overheard the conversation in the kitchen.
He's like, he's like, you know, this is going to be hard for me.
And I'm like, he used to be in love with the wife.
Like I, I just like, well, two things because it was like, if

(54:33):
it's hard for you, if, if it's hard to like he didn't want to
like, obviously there was some sort of heartbreak here and he
wasn't in love with his brother sexually.
So like, but then to be honest with you, in the Mothman book
that I read a few weeks. Ago.
It was a similar, there was likea similar back story with the

(54:54):
main character. Her sister had married her ex
fiance or something. And so I think that was in the
front of my mind when I read that scene and I feel like, oh
OK, that's interesting. Two books in a row like where
the sibling marries the yaks. Like, great.
No, that that is a freaky coincidence, even though it
happens in romance books a lot more than it happens, IRLI would

(55:18):
say. Absolutely.
Like, I mean, yeah, there's likea it's, it's so weird.
And I feel like it happens in like old times and romance
novels. And like yes.
Yes, again, because people are just so much more well adjusted
in romance novels than they are in real life.
Totally, totally. She gets to meet his parents at
the ceremony and it's kind of like how he described.

(55:41):
He has a really nice, kind mom and like a colder, very like
stereotypical surgeon dad. And at the reception and dinner,
they're like going around and introducing Lucy to everybody
and Josh's extended family. And like this is when we start
seeing cracks in like the facade, I guess, because they

(56:05):
like don't know where he works or like anything really about
him, which is like, actually, now that I'm thinking about it,
I feel like this is like underrated about like how how
much this book centers around like Josh's family like issues.
Yeah, yeah. Like, I really think that, like
he, what he went through is likemaybe harder than the way he was

(56:30):
making it out to be. Like that's like, it's really
hard to be like, you know, the number one thing is that like
kids need to feel loved by their, by the, all the parents
that they have, right? He has a parent who clearly does
not show love. And that's like, so like
traumatic. Like I don't want to use the
word traumatic cuz I, I, cuz it's not like trauma trauma, but
it really makes such a huge emotional impact on people that

(56:53):
like, oh, so he like, that's what he needed to get past.
And like, he actually did do a good job of it so far.
Like he's, again, he's not, he'snot an actual serial killer.
So like, that's good. But like, yeah, like I like to
me like the, you know, the father would make these jabs at
him. You know, he makes a jab at him.
Like while they're talking, he makes a jab at him that like

(57:15):
when he makes the speech at the wedding and like that was like,
and and then you see everyone islike at the wedding is like kind
of like looking at Josh kind of making him to be a spectacle cuz
they're like, this is so weird. And so like it is like this
weird like macabre wedding in a way.
And like if like my parents likefor a parent to to treat a child

(57:38):
like that, like I mean, that's horrible.
And like that my wedding would be ruined if my dad made a
speech like that. Or if like my husband's dad made
a speech like that and like dissed my husband's brother at
our wedding, I'd be, he'd be dead to me.
You know what I mean? A.
Good point. Fucking Patrick and the mom
stand up like yes, yeah truly. Or anyone else at that wedding.

(58:03):
Like does he have no other allies in the family?
Like I felt so bad for him. Right.
Yeah. And it kind of was just like,
OK, I think it's like kind of the same same thing you were
saying of like the why now issueis like, why is Josh pursuing
Lucy now? And it's kind of like, oh, why
is Josh's dad being called out now?
He did horrible things earlier that like his wife should have

(58:25):
been like, you're fucked up man.Yeah, like, hello, these are our
children, and you're treating him like he's like a loser.
Exactly. Yeah.
Like he's like, kind of like, yeah.
I mean, I guess he mentions he was unplanned, you know, sure.
But like, Even so, like he, the father treated him like he was
an unplanned, like house plant, not an unplanned person, you

(58:46):
know? What I mean, so it's like, yeah,
totally, totally. So Lucy's like, OK, everyone's
looking at you like you're a zooanimal.
Your dad just made this crazy speech and you're not telling me
what's happening. And he's like, OK, fine, I'm
going to go to the bathroom and then I will spill the tea and

(59:07):
then. She runs into the bride.
Yes, yes. Mindy approaches her and is
like, Oh my God, I'm so glad you're here.
It's so nice to meet you. Anyways, Josh is my ex and
that's why things are weird. Yeah, and so, but.
And she says it like, oh, you know, I guess you knew the
story, blah blah blah. And she's like.
She's like I did, did not know this story.

(59:28):
Which honestly, Josh should havesaid something like even if like
because he kind of reveals like,oh, I brought you here because
of my dad and my issues with him.
Like I'm over her, which we believe, sure.
But regardless, if you're like, yeah, I'm going to the wedding
of my ex-girlfriend and my brother like and you're I'm
bringing a new girlfriend. You don't say something like,

(59:49):
come on, Josh. Totally, actually.
Yeah, yeah, I did not put this on Josh at all.
But you're right. Why the fuck did he not tell her
sooner? Yeah, like again, again, he's so
in love with her. He like, I mean, Mindy doesn't
mean anything to him. So obviously he didn't like kind
of register. So again, it's another human

(01:00:09):
mistake that we make when we're in an enemies to lovers romance.
We all make mistakes, but still,Come on Josh.
Not not setting her up for success.
Yeah. So she like leaves crying and
Josh's mom finds her and is likeshe's like great.
Josh is just using me to make Mindy jealous and like to show

(01:00:31):
up with a date to the this wedding that everyone thinks
he's like a flop at. Yeah, like he's like, kind of
like using her as like a decoy, like whether or not like, like
it's like he's kind of using heras a way to be like, see, I'm
not, I'm not miserable, See, youknow, and it's like.
Is kind of still true even though he's in love with her.
Absolutely. He is used like he there is a

(01:00:52):
level of she is being used. She has ulterior motives that
are that are selfish, you know, even though they're here for a
good time, whatever. I feel like if he was honest
with her from the gecko and was like my brother's whatever and
she would be like then I am coming with you and I'm going to
be my best self. You know what I mean?
And she like, fucks up. No, seriously, like I feel like

(01:01:14):
because she's so competitive, ifhe would have been honest, she
would be like, OK, well, we are going to like undermine, find
their entire wedding. Yeah.
And like, we'll be getting married.
Yes, yes, yeah. Like maybe you'll be proposing
to me during the ceremony. Yeah. 100% yeah.
The yeah. The mom's like, he's not like

(01:01:34):
playing a game like he's obsessed with you.
He talks about you all the time.And Josh finds the two of them,
and he's like, I don't give a fuck about Mindy, but she is so
mad that he was, yeah, parading her around the wedding.
So she tries to leave just as, of course, Danny calls to update
her about the project. And Josh hears that and is

(01:01:57):
jealous. And then he finally breaks down
and just says, it's not Mindy, it's my dad.
We have had a riff. Like, I haven't talked to him
for five years and he's the reason, well, like that I kind
of pursued medical school even though I didn't want to.
I like interned at a hospital thought it was like so gross.

(01:02:19):
Yeah, like he's just like he had.
Yeah, he had a funny story wherehis, like he wanted to vomit or
he did vomit or something. He was like they had a cadaver
or something. Yeah, yeah.
And so he tried to stick it out to impress his dad but couldn't
follow through. And like, they weren't impressed
when he did his MBA when he was working at the publishing house.

(01:02:41):
And it's just really sad. But know what makes better is
that they they have sex. Like finally fucking finally.
And it's and it's not to say that the other scenes weren't
sexy and like it's not like he does.
I mean, like orgasms have happened, you know, But like,
yes, they finally like have sex in like.

(01:03:02):
However, society sees sex in thetraditional way and it's hot.
It's hot. Yeah, and they do it in the
shower to like they hook up in the shower this morning.
Absolutely. They just, they are like using
this hotel room to its maximum potential and I'm here for that.
Totally. I wonder, do you think Sally
Thorne has a thing for enclosed spaces since they hook up in the

(01:03:26):
elevator and the shower? I mean, it really is like, you
know, like I feel like forced proximity is such a, a thing.
And I think it's like, it is a, a plot device that can amp, amp
up the enemies to lovers, which I love.

(01:03:46):
You know, like put me like, I mean, I just remember like,
wait, there's a book where it's like 2 enemies have to like,
like, or what's it called? Spoon each other in the middle
of the night or else they'll freeze to death.
And it's just like, this is great.
This is great cuz they're like sleeping in a volcano.
Like it's something so ridiculous.
And I'm. Like I'm eating it up every
single. Time, all that.

(01:04:07):
Yes, I have this joke where I would love to see a romance
level where it's like, listen, there's only one bed.
I can't sleep on the floor because there's snakes all over
the floor. We have to both sleep on the
bed. And I'm like, I would read the
shit out of that. But definitely I'm, I'm hoping
that I'm in that situation Monday.
Like, yeah, I will sleep with snakes on the floor.

(01:04:28):
Totally. And again, the characters are so
in love with each other that they don't see any like logical
thing. They do like the dumbest
illogical things. Yes, yes, it's so.
It's so good. It's so good and they have to go
to like the wedding brunch the day after wedding brunch and
she's like, OK, you'll be safe because you're with me.

(01:04:49):
But she goes to the bathroom andthey fucking attack Josh.
Like they it's just like she can't even leave the room for
two seconds without the family just losing.
Thankfully it happens at the after brunch where it's like OK
it's only family going there, you know everyone else is too
hungover to go. So at least it was not the
wedding wedding. It's not the wedding wedding.

(01:05:11):
Like, thank, yeah, thank Gee. But she comes back and she
fucking stands up for Josh, 10 toes down.
She rips him apart. She's like, he's going to be the
new chief operations officer. Like he's amazing.
And you guys are like fucking assholes.
Yeah, Yeah. It's like you're wrong.

(01:05:31):
Like, yeah, it was good. It was good.
It was AI really liked when she was like, like, I like all of
you. I don't really like you.
Yeah, You know what I mean? Like I loved that.
Line that made me that so her like yeah, that's just very in
character. So they head back to the city
and Lucy is still freaking out because of the interview the

(01:05:52):
next day. And so they play truth or Dare,
which sometimes I think it too used in as a plot device in
romance novels. It is, yeah.
Yeah, maybe. It's just because of the book
that I covered like 2 episodes ago also did this.
So yeah, yeah, you know, it's sofunny.
I feel like sometimes, like, youjust like, kind of

(01:06:16):
coincidentally read the books where there's like a same trope,
you know, like one after the other and you're like,
interesting, OK. Now that you're saying that, so
I did the QB bad boy and me thathad this the hating game and
then actually I was on the podcast Movies that raised us
and we covered the last two all the boys I love before.
OK. And it does it in that one too.

(01:06:38):
Yeah, yeah, it's like it's like truth or dare.
Never have I ever like any of like the, you know, the get to
know you games, you know, like it's like, OK or whatever.
Exactly. Yeah.
And yeah, strip poker is something that I've seen so many
times, and it's actually in one of my favorite books and it's
like, oh, I but I've seen it so many times and, you know, yeah,
I get it. Totally.

(01:06:59):
And she's like, no, what if you get it?
I will resign and I'll be happy for you because like, I love you
and I'm scared of scared about what's going to be the next
steps. But they had that whole
conversation that we detailed already.
Yes, yes, yes. But this is like the big reveal.
I actually like, we're going to talk about the movie next.

(01:07:20):
And I actually like the way thatthey did this in the movie way
better. But he like, he's like I got
another job. When I took that personal day
when I was in that big fight with the boss, it's because I
was in another interview process.
Yeah, it was very like it was very satisfying for his
character arc. I will say I will then I but I

(01:07:42):
will also say there was a level of it that was kind of anti
climactic because it wasn't likeI wanted the whole like she's
flying off to Paris and he reveals that in the terminal,
you know, like I didn't do that,you know, but like it was just
like, OK, they had a nice speaking together.
It ends with him saying that andthey do it.
It's just like done in a very, Imean, granted it is funny

(01:08:05):
because it's like it's like at asexual moment, it's like a
sensual moment and you realize it to her and then she kinda
just switches and she's like, wait, what the fuck?
You know, like the way the author or the cuz.
I listened to that part and thenin the audio book and I thought
the narrator did a good job performing that scene.
Loved the narrator by the way. She was great, Yeah.
But yeah, I feel like that moment it it was to say, I

(01:08:27):
thought it was an interesting choice on the author's part to
kind of make this kind of momentbe as like in the same way
someone would be like, can you pass water, the water, please?
You know, like it's like it was.So it wasn't not, I don't want
to say cinematic, but just the the I was expecting like higher

(01:08:48):
stakes maybe in the scenario, you know.
Exactly. And it's it's exactly what we
just talked about with the wedding is that he could have
told her this four days ago. Yeah.
And not had her stress out aboutthis.
Yeah, I mean, granted, I will give Josh some credit because
she does freak out and he knows when she's freaking out.

(01:09:09):
And so he is like, kind of dealing with the ticking time
bomb. So he can't.
Yeah, like, I get like, OK, you don't wanna drop all these
bombshells on one one small person who literally cannot
handle news. I get it.
I get it. But it's just like, OK, like I
would have like, Josh should have heavy.
Like, here's a table of contentsof all the truths I'm going to
tell you this weekend. But like, we'll check off 1 by

(01:09:30):
1. Be prepared.
Totally, totally. Let's talk about the movie.
Sure it is, at least in Canada on Netflix.
In the US, it's on Hulu. OK and it was released December
10th, 2021 and it stars Lucy Hale as Lucy.
Go thank her. Of course.
And Austin Stowell as Josh and Idon't.

(01:09:55):
I couldn't find on the Internet how much Sally had involvement,
but she was involved and happy with how the movie turned out.
I will say, watching it, there was a lot.
They did leave a lot of elementsfrom the book in the movie,
which I was surprised about because I feel like in a lot of
move book to movie adaptations, like I think sometimes like the

(01:10:18):
movie just like changes so many different things, you know, and
it's just like, Oh yeah, OK, that's not bad.
But I was like surprised when they left the Smurf thing and,
you know, those little things. I was like, oh, that's weird.
I wouldn't have expected it and I liked it.
Totally. I would give this like a 10 out
of 10 adaptation in terms of like, yeah, staying true to the
book. Like I thought also just like

(01:10:39):
they really looked like the characters were described and
they kept like her kind of quirkiness and even just the the
office, like the set. That was great.
It was just like I imagined. I yeah, I, you know, I love a
good looking man. And Austin Stowell.

(01:11:00):
Stowell, you know, he, he was a like, he wasn't my favorite,
like, honestly. OK, that that's what I wanted to
talk about next. Year like I just wanted to like
every scene like I just wanted to like give him a massage, you
know like it's just like with things like this, like when you
have like a Ryan Gosling in the world or a Hugh Grant in the

(01:11:21):
world when they are in a ROM com, they are having so much
fun. They are loving being there.
And it's just, like, hard to watch someone where it's like,
you're kind of making it look like work and like, have fun
with this, you know what I mean?And it's just like, oh, I wanted
to, like, shake him sometime. He had his moments, I will say,
but I don't know. It was just like, kind of like,

(01:11:42):
oh, he just felt so like stiff. He felt too stiff.
And I don't think that was like Josh in the book in a way, you
know, where like. Yeah.
Completely agree. Like as again, aesthetically
keeping a lot of the dialogue like there was the put your
hands on me, seeing like all of that type of stuff.
So good in terms of the actor, Ilike Lucy.

(01:12:06):
OK, so I I think Lucy Hale did agood job and she actually yes,
but OK. I'm also having a tough time
because I watched this movie when it came out in 2021 and
then I read the book and re watched it in 2025.
So I sometimes I'm like, did I just think it was like
aesthetically what the book describes?

(01:12:27):
Because I was already picturing it in my head because I had
already watched it. So I'm unsure about that.
But I OK, don't know if they actually have good chemistry.
I think Lucy Hale is a really good actress and I think she
actually did a good job of portraying Lucy Austin with
Josh. I think he's also a mismatch.
But the T is that because they filmed this like during COVID,

(01:12:53):
like it was like a COVID production, like they like had
to like do the stop starty type thing, But they actually casted
one of my the loves of my life'sRobbie Amel.
First time I was in, I said thatlast name out loud.
He was the guy in the Duff. Oh yeah, he's cute.
Yeah. Like so cute.

(01:13:14):
Like he. I feel like he was in some
comedy on Amazon and like. He's in, like, everything.
Exactly. Like he has timing, like he has
comedy, Like he can like. And it's just like, oh, like he
knows how to lighten up, you know?
That would be fun, Yeah. I'm so upset that it wasn't him
because I think actually his character in the Duff actually

(01:13:34):
has some of the like, ease that Josh has.
Yeah, yeah. And I think he's also hotter,
right? And I love to see a Canadian
king acting like, sure, I gotta represent, Gotta represent.
So yeah, I was like, so sad about that.
Do you think that they had good chemistry?

(01:13:55):
Like not. No, not no.
I mean, honestly, it like, no, I, I, I did like I, I feel like,
you know, when you have movies like, like, like I just watched
movie fall guy with Ryan Goslingand Emily Blunt and that was
just like magic. And you have movies like
romancing the stone again, just like that's just like magic.

(01:14:17):
And it just like, it felt like he just like, felt like some
like just this statue at times. And like I get, I I guess, like
I wanted to see him be show the ugly parts of his character that
we see in the movie, like don't not being afraid to get a little
ugly, you know, like, and it felt I just didn't see that.

(01:14:41):
I think she showed it, but I didn't see it from him, you
know? It also, yeah, I think it's like
a classic case of just like a kind of low key generic white
man being successful even thoughhe's like again, all the love to
you, Austin, like like but like kind of average.

(01:15:02):
Yeah, like, I think that like, you know, it, it's it's
interesting to see a, a romance novel that was, you know,
written, let's assume primarily for for women, you know, having
it made for an audience that is men and women, you know, IEA
movie. And like kind of having people

(01:15:26):
try to think what female viewerswant and they're like, oh, they
just want eye candy. He doesn't need to do much.
Like he just needs to show up and and grant, because that's
how like women were treated, youknow, in movies.
Like all they had to do was justlike wear a bikini and that's
work, you know? And I think maybe for some
reason, or I, I assume, I mean, again, I am just assuming here.

(01:15:46):
But like, it just seemed like, oh, maybe he wasn't given enough
to do. Like they didn't.
It was like they didn't. It was like the movie didn't
care about his character. And it's like, yeah, of course
we want to see a good looking man and we're fine.
And I know I have fun watching movie.
I loved it. But like in terms of like the
artistry of acting, like, I don't know.
I just didn't. I don't know.

(01:16:07):
Yeah. Completely agree, but I I think
you're right, like I don't know,I didn't look at like who the
director was or the producer or whatever, but I think you're
kind of right. Like I do think if this was like
a major, a major company that isjust trying to maybe make a
quick buck off of a popular romance novel and is not taking
the care of like why women like especially women like romance

(01:16:31):
novels. Yes, thank you.
Yes, that's exactly it. The why of it all.
Like they just think like, oh, ABS and a perfect smile.
And it's like, that's not it at all.
Exactly. Yeah.
And it's like that's absolutely not it.
And I think sometimes it's why, like everyone says like ROM coms
fail and it's like it's the samething.

(01:16:52):
Like I feel like it's kind of the the same thing.
Like when we see like, oh, womencharacters aren't fully fleshed
out in male, you know, movies. Like it's the same thing with
the way you're portraying men inmovies that like you are trying
to make for women. Like it's just like and it's
like. Just right characters, yes, like
2D characters versus. Like.
A3 dimensional character which they did so much in the book.

(01:17:15):
Like honestly Josh maybe even seems more 3 dimensional than
Lucy does. Absolutely.
And honestly, like, again, this is just, you know, like I don't
mean this for every single romance, but it's it is why it's
why I'd rather when I want the experience of a romance, I would

(01:17:36):
I would rather read it than see it.
Yes, not only for that, but because like, I feel like with
romance, a lot of the plot happens inside of their brains.
Like it's a lot of them coming to terms with this and that.
And like there were a lot of cute things in this book that
just couldn't that obviously could not translate into a

(01:17:58):
movie. Like, I don't know, they were
talking about like Josh and the way he would like eat Easter
eggs growing up. And it's like that.
I've never put that in the movie, but it's so cool that we
got that kind of perspective from the book, you know, like
it's just like a cute little like anecdote, you know, And
it's just like things like that that like just romance novels
give you allow you to be in the characters brains so much more

(01:18:20):
than than a movie would. And so when I'm watching like a
ROM com movie, like I would wantit to be very cinematic and
visual as opposed to like, I don't know, like thoughtful, I
guess. Totally.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. It there's just something
missing and like, listeners should weigh in on movies that

(01:18:42):
have done this well so we can watch.
Them. Because I know that they're out
there. They absolutely are like, I
mean, again, I thought fall guy was such a great, such a great
movie. There are other great ones where
it's like they kind of like are like they put, they realize that
they are a movie. You know what I mean?
Like it isn't just like crap, you know.
And it's like, are they, it isn't just like whatever like

(01:19:04):
phoned in or something. And it's like, Oh, yeah, you
remember, like you make, it's like when it's made with love,
it becomes something more. And it it's made with just like,
oh, let's just, you know, factory get this out.
I don't know. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it.
One of the differences in the book and the movie that I did
not like is that in the elevatorkiss scene, she actually makes

(01:19:29):
the first move. And I was like, no, that needed
to. Not that it's like, oh, the man
needs to make the first move, but it's like the whole point of
the whole thing that gets set upfor their romance is that he
does the you know, the fake date, the elevator and the
bouquet. Yes, yeah, It was a little like,

(01:19:50):
I would not be surprised if thatwas a point of discussion when
they were doing the scene, if they were like, oh, maybe we
should make it the woman so it doesn't look predatory.
Or like like a real they always were harping on that it was an
HR situation because he would like call her like horny eyes.
Yeah. Oh yeah.
Yeah. And like you're right, maybe it

(01:20:10):
was like AI guess I don't know what it like post me to
movement. I don't know, I.
Think it is. I think like, I mean like it's
just like it was, you know, at that time, like people were kind
of just like feeling it out. Scared of yeah, like scared of
doing or saying the wrong thing,which, you know, whatever.
But yeah, like, I think like, she's really horny in the book.

(01:20:33):
She's so horny in the book. And I think like, the movie did
a good job showing her level of horniness, like in a very good
way. And I think maybe they wanted
to, like also show that horniness with her kind of being
more in charge in the elevator. Seat when she didn't really need
to be right. It's like it's hard to well, I

(01:20:53):
mean, I don't know, but like it's like she she she willingly
submits in the book like she wants this, obviously.
And it's like, OK, did that come?
Would that come across on screenas well?
I don't know. You know, you never know.
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.Is there any other like there's
a few other differences her her interview projects different.

(01:21:17):
He tells her that he's resigned a lot sooner in the movie.
No, sorry. He he tells her that he's
resigned. At the last scene, like it's
like the last line, like she. Does the she does the interview.
So it's the opposite of what I just said, Yeah.
Any other like points that you want to bring up?

(01:21:38):
I they did like, I mean, they dotalk a lot about Lucy's
loneliness in the, the book, which I really liked because we
are a society where we are all isolating ourselves.
And I, I feel like there was something like, I really love
the idea of her friendship breakup that I mean, the friend

(01:21:59):
isn't even brought in, but just like friendship breakups hurt
and they are heart breaks and itcomes up in her story.
She thinks about her parents a lot.
Her parents have a bigger role in in, in the book.
And it's just like, again, like the book, just like, again,
because it's a book, just a loudroom for like these more fleshed
out kind of subtle backstories that we could like, really just

(01:22:20):
like dig our fingers into, you know?
Completely agree, I also just realized how relevant.
Maybe This is why I liked it so much.
Maybe if I read it in 2016 I wouldn't have liked it so much.
How fucking relevant is this book?
Yeah. In terms of like her, basically
because we all, because of the cost of living and jobs are so

(01:22:42):
hard to come by that we're all working our fucking asses off.
Yeah. And that we have to prioritize
work over relationships. Absolutely.
And that you could have people let let go, including your kind
of best friend, and then all of a sudden you're isolated.
Mm hmm. That is like so real right now

(01:23:05):
it. Absolutely is and like, and I
think that like I, you know, my biggest heart breaks have always
been friendship breakups. It's never been anything like.
Being dumped or anything? And so like, I feel like, like
when I see that in a book and it's kind of like really
poignant, you know, of just like, this was my best friend.

(01:23:25):
Like they're like your family. They're like, you know, your
other. They're like an extra limb.
And suddenly they're gone. And it's like, it's yeah, OK.
They weren't having sex with each other.
Or maybe they were, but who knows.
But you know, like I, I just like, I really felt, I really
felt it because I think friendship breakups are things
that like a lot of people go through that kind of aren't as

(01:23:47):
maybe dramatic as a romantic breakup is maybe not as symbolic
and and artistic as a romantic breakup, but man is the
heartbreak just as much. Totally, totally.
Yeah. It's like the like not as
accepted type of breakup that people don't like, value or

(01:24:08):
support as much as a romantic one.
Absolutely. Cuz like, again, you know, I
live on the Los Angeles and like, OK, I'm talking a lot, but
but I mean, go. Ahead you.
Know, and I'm trying to like make a career in, you know,
writing and and, you know, I'm also like interested in kind of
like, you know, reading about like what makes a good romance

(01:24:30):
novel and and then, you know, whatever.
But I feel like something that people never want to touch is
like the value of friendship andlike working for kid shows, like
friendship is always prioritizedabove all else.
It's like friends above all else.
And and I had completely get that.
I completely understand like this is for kids.
You want, you don't want to showanything that's like too

(01:24:50):
upsetting. But I feel like sometimes like
maybe kind of the content that like I would love to be involved
in like sometimes like skirts around the fact that like
friendships end and like, what do we do with that?
You know, like kids are watchingfriendship being the best on
television, but in real life, maybe they're they are having a

(01:25:10):
friend who's like going off withother kids.
Like, what is what does that mean?
Like, does it make kids feel bad?
And so like, and so, Oh my God. So like, I guess maybe this is
all to say, like, I it's OK. Like I'm like little Becky on
the playground. It's OK.
Your friends want to play soccer, you know?
But yeah. So this is all to say, like, I,
I feel like friendship can be like, kind of deconstructed as

(01:25:32):
much as romance can. And absolutely, yeah.
I talk about this with friend ofthe pod Megan all the time
because she is not single anymore, but we had been single
for a while together. And yeah, just talking about,
yeah, like how you become literally devalued as a single

(01:25:54):
person and that the only types of relationships that people
prioritize or value typically inyour late 20s to 30s and 40s is
romantic relationships. Like yeah, you're like again
like a freak if you like went onlike a trip with your BFF and
not your boyfriend or whatever. Absolutely, yeah.

(01:26:17):
My friend and I are going on a couples trip and we have to do
we have to, we're doing a couples massage and it's like
we're just friends, man. I'm so excited for it and it is
hard because I think that like, you know, we're saying that
like, you know, these these are choices, but they don't really
feel like choices. And then when people are kind of
owning that it is a choice. Everyone else is like what?

(01:26:38):
You're not married, you know, like, I don't know it's.
Totally. Yeah.
It's complicated, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
I completely agree. And I liked that it was really
explored in the book and in the movie.
Yeah. Yeah, the movie had to be what
it had to be. Yeah.
And I, and I'm not gonna like, fault it.
I thought it was like a pretty solid adaptation.

(01:27:02):
Yeah. And so.
Yeah, you know, I I, but again, it's a story.
If I were to really want to be in it, I would rather read it
than than watch. Totally, totally.
OK, let's wrap up with our roundtable discussion.
Yes, our Internet investigation.This is our cursory peruse of
the Internet of Things you need to know.
We talked about Robbie. It would have been so much

(01:27:24):
better with him. I will, like, fucking die on
that hill. Yeah, You need a funny guy.
You need someone, a funny guy for these kinds of things.
He's. So charming he's so charming and
I feel like really underrated yes underrated and Josh is
charming so yeah fun too much else which was interesting I

(01:27:45):
wonder wise. These are unanswered questions
for the listeners, my wonder wise and like we've discussed
this, but like sometimes the bitof hating each other goes on for
so long and I'm just like you need to go to therapy or like
you need or like you need like a.
Hobby. Yes, you, yes, yes.

(01:28:05):
And like and and Helen was beinglike oh, like Are you sure you
hate him and like stuff like that.
So I appreciate her, but like, and I guess she didn't have any
friends to like kind of like shake grab her by the shoulders
and shake her a little bit. But boy, did she need that.
Yeah, she definitely. And but The thing is, is that
like, yeah, she definitely needed it.

(01:28:27):
And I think that's like, that was.
So that's kind of why it took her character so long to kind of
like, come around and like she, like, if she had a best friend,
like saying, like, this guy is into you, we would not have the
moment of when he says I love you and she's like me, yeah.
Yeah, literally, yeah. Why though?
I guess it's building tension, Iguess is the like, why is it so?

(01:28:50):
I guess it's like the slow burn tension building.
But I'm like, sometimes I'm like, are you that like?
Emotionally unintelligent. Yeah.
It's like, it's like, you reallyare playing stupid.
Yeah. And like, Yeah.
And it's like, are you playing? And I guess a part of me is,
like, assumed, yes, just because, like, they've been so

(01:29:11):
stupid in their global games before that they're just gonna
like, stick with it and just be pests, you know?
And then the sexy ones at that. But like, yeah, like, it, it, it
is like, it, it, it is hard whenyou're like, OK, Like, is this
character being written to the top of their intelligence?
Like, does this feel grounded and real?
And would someone not notice that?

(01:29:32):
Yes, like she is emotionally intelligent.
Like when Helen is dealing with Mr. Bexley, she had like the
French macarons and like, yeah, like, I'm like you're.
And like she, she is really intelligent with her parents,
like how her mom gave up a lot to support the farm and stuff.
And like, so I'm just like, why in this one area are you like a

(01:29:52):
dummy? But.
Yeah, I'll never know. The thing is, is that there
could be a good justification for it.
You know, it's like we, you know, like.
But if there isn't, it is kind of hard to kind of just, you
know, kind of fully grasp like lady come.
Come on girl, come on. OK, our grapes and grumbles.
These are NIT picky problems we have with the book.

(01:30:14):
My favorite section of the pod. Kate, can we not call Mr. Bexley
fat little Dick? Yeah, it's interesting.
Like there were like at some terms that like I feel like
we're in it that yeah, like fat.I was there AI, was there a
reference to like, brain damage that felt a little like, you

(01:30:35):
know, like I could actually could be thinking of something
else that I watched and saw in the last three years.
But wherever it was, it was bad.No, But yeah, there was like
Josh, I felt like sometimes, like he went to the gym twice a
day and it's like. Baby that's like yes, that's
disordered babe like 100%. I was like I was like and his

(01:30:56):
regimented eating like when he was like well we're having
omelets tonight. I hope you're happy with that
cuz that's what's on the schedule.
Yeah. And it's like, OK, at least it's
protein and there's vegetables, I'll give you that.
But like, just like the way it felt close to like you're doing
all the things like a gym, like a gym bro, maybe even someone

(01:31:18):
with an eating disorder would do.
And 100% yeah, cuz he kept beinglike, I only eat yeah, like
chicken and greens. And when she looks in her his
fridge, it's like hummus and stuff like that.
Yeah. And, and just like his obsession
with yeah, like working out and stuff, I was like, I don't need
that. Yeah, and it's like, I get it.

(01:31:38):
He's look good, but he can feel good just because of jeans, you
know what I mean? Like totally.
And like, I don't know. But yeah, it just like go like
going to the gym like twice a day.
I just think you're you, that tome I read you're the most
uninteresting person in the. No, literally I was like at
least Lucy has The Smurfs. You watch ER and fucking work

(01:32:00):
out. Yeah, yeah.
And it's like if you work out while you're watching ER, focus
on ER, you know, like, and just like, no one cares about your
biceps, you. Know, I know it was, I know it
was kind of crazy. And then he's like always
talking about how women only want him for his body.
And I'm like, just stop going tothe gym so much like.
Probably and it's like exactly it's like you care.

(01:32:21):
It's like they people care are caring about your body because
you. Care about it so much.
Like that's how, yeah, it's likewhat?
You're care. For your body, but not in maybe
this way. But he was nitpicking his body
and like, that's the problem, you know?
And I think that like if, like he, if he was prioritizing the
way his body looks above everything else, other people
are gonna do that too. Yeah.

(01:32:43):
It's just this like kind of snake eating itself. 100% the
other thing, why was she so obsessed with like staring at
him all the time? Cuz like a staring game is so
funny. Like it.
It was funny when I was like across the desk, but I was like
when they were like watching TV and she was like, I was just
watching ER through the reflection of his eyes.

(01:33:05):
I was like, you need to be put down.
Yeah, it's like it looks like they don't even.
You know what I mean? You look, that's again serial
killer. It's so serial killer because I
was like, okay, I get the gestures cute and stuff like
that and it's showing how much she likes him and stuff like
that. But I was like, hey, you're

(01:33:25):
trying to prove that you don't just like this man for his looks
and B, that doesn't play well IRL.
Like maybe it's cutesy in a book, but I'm like, that is
fucking weird like. Yeah, like I feel like that
staring game, like it has to call for it, you know what I
mean? Like when I think staring game,
I think boredom and you have to be so bored that the only game

(01:33:50):
you can play is staring like that is like, it's like you whip
that out at the worst possible moment.
No one, no one wants to play thestaring game.
Literally, literally, literally.Do you have any grapes and
grumbles? I feel like again, the short
thing I could, it was a little overplayed.
I mean, maybe because I'm short,I I thought that the, you know,

(01:34:13):
I, I guess maybe I was kind of like a little like meh, that I
was able to guess that the wife was his ex-girlfriend.
I think maybe like a good one. Yeah.
But again, like I also think a mile a minute.
So again, a lot of it is just meas a reader, but yeah, no, I
think that like I the kind of the same gripes you had, I'd
had. Yeah, yeah.

(01:34:34):
Overall though, I thought it wasexcellent.
Me too, I had a good good good time.
Finally, our sequels group. This is our tea on upcoming
sequels, seasons, or the generalreception.
No sequels, but it was really highly praised enough to land a
movie deal. Yeah, yeah.
And I, I guess this, I don't know, is Sally Thorne like a
full time writer now? Cuz like in her about page it

(01:34:56):
said that she works part, you know, whatever I'm like.
Oh, I wonder if she's like a bona fide.
Yeah, I I actually was looking at her catalogue too, 'cause
this is the only Sally Thorne book I've read and she actually
doesn't have like, I actually really appreciate when an author
has like 10 or less books. Yeah, same, same.
Because it's like, if you've written like 30 books, I'm

(01:35:17):
always just like, how? Like origin.
Yeah, yeah. Just like how how are you doing
this? It's kind of giving like the
unedited Taylor Swift album vibes.
Yeah, yeah. Like it's, it's like, do you do
an author interviews at all or like.

(01:35:37):
I have interviewed 3 authors, surprisingly 2 of them on my
other podcast. I mean, obviously we but that's
great. Like, what a great guest ammo.
But like, like the singing, likehow long it takes to write a
book. And when an author says that
they're really slow at writing abook, I'm like, yeah, me too.
I like it more. Me too, me too, me too, me too.

(01:36:00):
And we kind of answered all of our listener questions, but the
last one, which is like some saythe movie is better than the
book, but we both preferred the book. 100% yeah, yeah, yeah, I
think if you like to, if you're a reader, you, if you if you're
like, I actively hate reading, then yeah, you're gonna then I'm
sure that the movie is better, but.

(01:36:22):
Totally, totally. And that question was submitted
by Alexandria at. Romance at its finest.
That is all. Any final thoughts on The Hating
Game? I mean, I just want to say thank
you for for having this as an option.
It really like there's, there's nothing like reading just like a

(01:36:42):
wonderful contemporary romance in the midst of everything going
on. And it's just like, you know,
like, and I and again, like it'salways with you.
Like I would have just like things are happening around the
world that are terrible. But like we have a podcast
coming up and we read such a pleasant, fun contemporary ROM
com. Yeah, I thought this was
excellent and and I loved the experience.

(01:37:04):
Me too, me too. Can you tell the listeners where
they can find you and anything else you want to plug?
Yes, absolutely. So my podcast is called Too
Stupid to Live. We review romance novels $5 and
under. You can find the show wherever
you listen to your podcast. Also on Sub Stack, where I have
a fictional podcast if you want to listen to that and other fun

(01:37:26):
little articles and stuff. So it's
tstlpodcast.substack.com. Amazing, and I'll link
everything in that episode your notes.
Yay. Awesome.
So much for coming on. Thanks for having me, I gotta
get you on mine. Please, I it would be my
pleasure. And that's the story of The
Hating Game. Thank you so much for listening

(01:37:48):
and thank you to Becky for joining me on today's show.
Sorry again for a late episode. I've been so busy at work and
this is a hobby podcast, so sometimes it does fall to the
wayside. But I've been putting in a lot
of work to get some really fun guests and choose some really
fun books for this spring. So I'm really excited for that.
And if you've been enjoying the show, subscribing and leaving a

(01:38:11):
rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify helps the
pod find new listeners, which isalways important so we can build
out the RTBR community. You can suggest a book.
Now is the perfect time as I'm scheduling all these guests.
Or leave a voicemail with a question via the links in the
episode show notes. Our next episode is Onyx Storm.

(01:38:34):
Until then, happy reading for ready to be romance, I'm Tori.
Goodbye.

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