42: At What Point Are We Saved?

At what point are we saved? The Bible teaches that we transition from lost to saved when the Holy Spirit comes to dwell within us—but when does that actually happen? In this episode, we explore key passages that shed light on the timing of the Spirit’s indwelling and the forgiveness of sins. Looking closely at Acts 2 and Romans 8, we examine how immersion (baptism) is consistently linked with both the gift of the Holy Spirit and the remission of sins. Is baptism just a symbolic act, or is it the moment when Jesus cleanses us and gives us His Spirit? Join us as we dig into Scripture and challenge some common assumptions about salvation.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
(Music)
Welcome to the Ready for Eternity
podcast, a podcast and blog dedicated to
inquisitive Bible students exploring
biblical truths that might not be fully
explored in typical sermons or Bible
studies. My name is Eddie Lawrence. At

(00:23):
what point is a person who is turning to
Jesus saved? Is it when they believe? Is
it when they repent? Is
it when they're baptized?
Let's see what the Bible says.
The Bible teaches that we transition from

(00:44):
lost to saved when the Holy Spirit comes
to live inside us. The mind governed by
the flesh is death, but the mind governed
by the Spirit is life and peace.
The mind governed by the flesh is hostile
to God. It does not submit to God's law,

(01:04):
nor can it do so. Those who are in the
realm of the flesh cannot please God.
You, however, are not in the realm of the
flesh, but are in the realm of the
Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives
in you. And if anyone does not have the
Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to
Christ. Romans 8, 6 through 9. This

(01:28):
passage in Romans is quite clear on the
matter. If the Holy Spirit does not
govern or influence you, he doesn't dwell
in you. If you do not have the Spirit,
you do not belong to Christ. Either the
Spirit lives in you and influences you,

(01:49):
or you are lost. There are no saved
people who do not have the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit saves us at the exact
moment He comes to live within us. The
Scriptures teach that His end-dwelling is
simultaneous with our sins being taken

(02:09):
away. This conclusion isn't controversial
with most Bible students. The controversy
comes into play when we attempt to pin
down when the Holy Spirit takes up
residence within us. The Bible does give
us clues as to when this happens. So,

(02:32):
when do we receive the Holy Spirit? There
are several passages indicating
that it is during immersion when the Holy
Spirit endwells us. These same passages
suggest this is also when our sins are
taken away. It should be clear to
everyone that the water itself is not

(02:54):
responsible for bringing about a change.
The agent that is active in our cleansing
is not the water, but the Holy Spirit.
What I understand the passage is to teach
is that it is during immersion that the
Holy Spirit does His work. The question

(03:15):
isn't about who or what does the
cleansing, but about the timing of the
cleansing. What's more, this isn't a
question that anyone would have even
asked in the earliest days of the church,
but we'll talk more about
that in a future episode.
Under the Old Covenant, the Spirit was

(03:36):
only given to prophets, kings, judges,
etc. and even then, not permanently. Acts
chapter 2 records the fulfillment of Old
Testament prophecy, namely, the
outpouring of the Holy Spirit to all of
God's people. Peter said that what those
present on the day of Pentecost witnessed

(03:57):
was Joel's prophecy being fulfilled. In
his response to his listeners' questions
as he preached the first sermon under the
New Covenant, he tells them how to be
free of their sin and receive the promise
of the Holy Spirit for themselves.

(04:51):
It's evident that Peter is connecting the
gift of the Holy Spirit and the
forgiveness of sins with baptism. Many
have observed that grammatically we can't
tell if the gift is the Holy Spirit
Himself or something that the Spirit
gives. It seems to me that both of these

(05:13):
things are true. The gift that the Spirit
gives is the remission of our sins, but
it's also true that we receive the
indwelling of the Spirit and we receive
the Spirit during immersion. In the
context of chapters 1 and 2 of Acts, the
promise is the outpouring of the Spirit.

(05:35):
In other words, the Spirit is the gift.
Luke, who was the author of Acts, uses a
number of phrases all describing the same
event which Peter equates to the
fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. In Acts
chapter 1 verse 5, Luke says that we are
baptized with the Spirit. In verse 8 he

(05:56):
says, "When the Holy Spirit has come upon
you." In Acts chapter 2 verse 4, Luke
uses the phrase filled with the Holy
Spirit. In verse 17, "Hore out my
Spirit." And again in verse 18. In verse
33 he says, "The promise of the Holy
Spirit, he has poured out." Acts 2.38,

(06:20):
"Receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
And verse 39, "The promise" once again.
Many people try to make a distinction
between the indwelling of the Spirit, the
baptism of the Spirit, being filled with
the Spirit, etc. However, Luke uses all
of these phrases throughout the book of
Acts to describe the very same thing.

(06:41):
Peter says that all Christians are
recipients of the promise. The promise is
the outpouring of the Spirit. The Spirit
gives gifts as He decides and some of
those are miraculous. And these gifts are
for the common good of the Church
according to 1 Corinthians 12. So in

(07:02):
other words, Peter is telling his
audience that if they will repent and be
immersed in water, they can also receive
what they saw being poured out. The
promise in verse 39 refers to the
outpouring of the Spirit which according
to Romans 8 verse 9 is synonymous with

(07:23):
salvation. Jesus gives us the indwelling
of the Holy Spirit during the immersion
of baptism. What indicates that the
taking away of our sins occurs during
baptism? Peter says that the immersion
results in the remission of sins. Be
baptized every one of you in the name of

(07:44):
Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your
sins. Many argue that the word "for" in
verse 38 means "because of" but this is
not true. The word "for" in this verse
translates the Greek word "ice"
transliterated as E-I-S. This word means

(08:07):
"unto" or "towards." The
Bower-Danker-Arnt-Gingrich dictionary of
biblical Greek defines ice as indicating
motion into a thing or into its immediate
vicinity or relation to something. In
other words, "ice" refers to a goal that

(08:29):
has not yet been achieved. We can
demonstrate that. There is a different
Greek word that means "because of." It's
the Greek word "gar" G-A-R. Let's look at
a single verse that uses both of these
Greek words in the same sentence. One of

(08:52):
the Greek words is "gar" meaning
"because." The other is "ice" meaning
"unto" or "moving toward" and in English
they're both
translated as the word "for."
And he took a cup and when he had given
thanks he gave it to them saying, "Drink

(09:13):
of it, all of you, for..."
Greek "gar" meaning "because."
This is my blood of the covenant which is
poured out for many for... Greek "ice"
meaning "unto" moving toward. The
forgiveness of sins.
Matthew 26, 27 through 28.

(09:35):
As you can see from the passage from
Matthew, Jesus's blood wasn't to be
poured out because sins had been
forgiven, but in order of that they might
be forgiven. Likewise, we aren't immersed
because our sins have been forgiven, but
in order that they will be forgiven.

(09:57):
Belief, repentance, and baptism are all
part of the same package.
Acts chapter 2 verses 38 and 39
bind together belief, repentance,
immersion, forgiveness of sins, and the
receipt of the Holy Spirit. In the next

(10:18):
episode, we'll take a look at Saul's
conversion in Acts as a case study.
Thanks for listening to the podcast. We
hope this episode has deepened your
understanding of Scripture. If you found
this content valuable, please share it
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(10:38):
studies, visit our website at
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God, and getting ready for
eternity. See you next time.