April 17, 2024 • 28 mins
Join us as we share our journey from casual dating to a committed relationship, discussing modern dating challenges and the importance of intentionality in relationships. From awkward first dates to transformative decisions, we offer insights on personal values, compatibility, and the delicate balance between vulnerability and privacy. Discover the key aspects and challenges of long-term relationships, and gain valuable advice on maintaining a healthy romantic balance. Listen in for unfiltered conversations about insecurities, breakthrough moments, and the power of dating with purpose, paving the way for enduring love.
#DatingJourney #RelationshipAdvice #LoveAndRelationships #DatingWithPurpose #ModernDating
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
You and I had very different dating experiences before we met each other.
Yes. Completely opposite.
Someone was a womanizer. Oh, hold up. That's how you're going to start this
show? I was not a womanizer.
Well, you had a lot of ladies chasing after you.
(00:20):
I would say that I was just putting myself out there a bit more than maybe you were, but a womanizer.
Wow, that's really what you thought of me? No. Then why'd you date me? I don't know.
There's something about you that was different. It was that swagger.
I walked in with a leather jacket. You had a good day that day and it had nothing to do with me.
(00:43):
I did have a very good day that day.
Yes, we had very different, I think, outlooks on dating. Very different dating experiences.
I would say I don't think you thought seriously about dating.
Until you met me. I think it would even be about a few months into, after we met.
(01:07):
Which I could sense, but I mean, how would you define your dating?
Like convenient friendships?
Well, I guess I would start by saying this way. I don't think I ever,
I feel like with you, what made it different, and this is, I think, important.
I think it's the reason that our relationship worked and I lost it,
is it really felt like we were dating dating and dating
(01:28):
each other in a very intentional way and i think that
that's thanks to you really shaping your
availability that way of like if you want if
you want to get to know me you're going to have to meet my family and do this
and do that and it was you're very intentional about how you allowed me to date
you i would say well i think it was different too because the way we met is
(01:50):
us modern times was on a dating app which is where most people meet each other
these days which Which is,
yeah, but I think because you're, not all the dating apps, but I think you're
when you weed out the people, you're saying, I'm looking for a partner.
I want to date with intention.
That was my outlook on dating. That was your mindset. I wouldn't say that's
(02:13):
the majority even of most people on a dating app. I wouldn't say that's the
majority, but that's what you're looking for and what you're hoping for.
I think if you're on a paid dating app, then you're definitely dating with intention.
I'm serious about- You got money invested in this now. Yes. I have a financial investment.
I had some friends who did like one of those Christian dating sites.
(02:34):
And that was like, I am serious about finding a husband or a wife.
That almost seems too serious. It was a bit too serious. So I was like,
I'm going to dabble in this.
I'm going to dabble. So we met on a dating app. We met on a dating app.
Which I got on as a joke, but also not as a joke.
Because I was in a point in my life where I had had...
A previous relationship. relationship previous relationship i was
(02:57):
gonna say that i've been through the gauntlet of women as caitlin often
refers to it but i had a previous relationship where i
was like is this is this it like is this as good as it's going to get like is
this as as close in alignment of my values and who i am and like what i am hoping
to kind of have in a in a life partner is going to to happen is this the kind
of person i grow with and it's something my gut just said like maybe maybe maybe
(03:20):
not and i I think if you're asking that question,
then they're not the right person for you. Correct.
Because I, like, rewind. Like, I was very prayerful about dating.
I very much asked the Lord to spare my heart of heartbreak as much as possible, whatever that meant.
(03:41):
It meant I had to wait a while. It meant that you never dated. But I didn't.
You went on dates. I went on dates. But you didn't have any relationships.
I didn't have any. I never had a long-term relationship until we met.
That's not a long-term relationship. What did that last? A couple months?
Just like two or three months. It's not a long-term relationship.
But I knew in my gut that something was wrong in that relationship.
(04:06):
Even two or three months in? Yeah.
And then I would say because of that relationship, any other date I went on
from then on, I knew in my gut something wasn't right. Right.
So Kaylin from the beginning was very good about if she was going to date, dating with intention.
And where did that come from? Was that from church or from parents or a combination
(04:27):
of all of it? All of it. I think.
Did all your siblings kind of trade dating the same way? I don't know. I'm not sure.
I mean, you'd have to ask them. But I mean, four out of five are married.
It's true. So, you know, I, I remember my sister went through a really hard
breakup in like high school, college, and she was just really heartbroken.
(04:50):
And I knew I didn't want that for my life.
I didn't want to be heartbroken. And so.
Like, I was really sad that she had to go through that. And like,
her and I are really close. So I just was like, I don't want that. So how do I avoid that?
And I mean, I did read a lot of books on marriage and like, was part of youth
groups and young things.
(05:10):
And they always talk about relationships. And I do disagree on some of the things that I had heard.
Like, I had heard that two Christians, no matter what the situation,
can make a marriage work.
And while I do agree because
you believe that marriage is a covenant and
you're going to work through the hard things I just don't think that's like the magic
(05:31):
makeup of a relationship I think there is more to
it like you have to have good communication styles like they have to have strengths
that maybe you don't have like I do think there's way more to finding a partner
than just compatibility is not just a religion preference checkbox that where
you both Well, that's what we identify as.
(05:52):
And I mean, like, I would say, like, you can have different theology.
Like, you can still be a Christian and have different theologies.
Right. And that's going to cause discourse in your life.
Or even different ideas of how you're going to raise kids. There's so much to it. So, I mean...
Yes, I think I had always wanted to date with purpose and I wanted to get married
(06:15):
and I wanted to have kids and I wanted to save myself for marriage.
So much so that on date one, what do you want to do with your life?
I was like, I want to be married and I want to have kids and I want to stay
home with my babies. And he was like, whoa.
And I was like, whatever. Like, I think when you're on a dating app and you're
meeting a stranger, there is some sort of like freedom just to say what you want and what.
(06:39):
But because you're like, whatever, if this doesn't work out,
I'm never going to see them again. Because it's not like someone at work where
it's like encounter in the hallway again.
Or like, you know, I went on dates with like friends from youth group or like
my small group or whatever.
And it's like, I really like you as a friend. I'm so sorry. Like,
I wish there was more, but like, there's just not.
And there's something to that. And I knew when I met you, there was something
(07:01):
different about you. Like, I was. I mean. Come on.
He's a catch. but you
walked in with such confidence and you know what it was
so nice because i felt like for the first time
it was like oh he is attracted to me and i'm attracted
to him and i felt like there was a lot of times
like guys would be attracted to me but i was like i like them as a person but
(07:25):
i just don't did you go on a lot of pity dates where you just kind of took the
free dinner i was like i'll see if there's something there but at the end of
the day you're like no i wouldn't say it was a pity date but like it was kind
of like i don't think there's anything here but like I should try. Plus free meal.
And you love food. I do love food, but not enough to know because there's a
(07:45):
lot of dates I went on where I'd be like, you know what? I'd rather be home.
Like I had really great girlfriends that I enjoyed spending time with.
I was like, I'd rather be sitting on the couch, like eating pizza and watching
my British TV shows with them than being on this date right now.
And I really want this to end.
And how do I get out of it? And please can I go home soon?
(08:07):
But no, I think every date though led to like,
what we have too so i mean like do you think dating all these women all the
women the full gauntlet of women led to us meeting and knowing like that this is right versus,
yeah i think there's definitely what was your approach
(08:29):
i guess too well my approach was i just
let whatever happened happen they came
after you kind of just sat back and and watched
it all take place yeah i would say that
i never really throughout my entire life there's maybe one or two girls that
i would say i pursued but most women that i dated and have only dated women
(08:53):
just the way i phrased that felt like i had to define that was they they definitely.
Flirted their way their way to getting me to ask them how i would i like i wouldn't
say like they they were all attractive and funny or, you know,
quirky or whatever they were in their own regard.
But they're like, I wasn't necessarily a person who was looking to date someone.
(09:16):
I would feel like it was like people. Yeah. It was more convenient.
And they'd be like, foot with me a lot. I'm like, Oh, they're cute.
And then it'd be like, well, okay. Do you want to like go out to dinner?
And then I would find myself in this constant sort of pattern of them sort of
forcing me into a relationship with them when I don't think I really was ready for it.
But I was like, whatever. If you want to put a relationship label on it,
(09:37):
slap it on and I don't care.
You were so weird about that when we were dating. We dated for like a while and I was like,
I was always like, am I his girlfriend? He's never called me his girlfriend, boyfriend.
Like, I don't know when you started doing that.
I was just like, this is Caitlin. And then when we got engaged,
when we got engaged, he still called me his girlfriend. And he's like, whatever.
(10:00):
Like, you're going to be my wife soon. I'm not going to like you as a fiance in the meantime.
Well, I never, I don't think I've ever really been into labels.
Like I always used to, I think one of my biggest pet peeve with dating is that
you get that conversation like, so. So define the relationship.
Are we girlfriend and boyfriend now? And I'm like, I don't know.
Maybe like, well, we're going on dates and we've been dating for like,
(10:23):
you know, two months. I'm like, right. I go, we're dating.
They go, so are we in a relationship? I go, yeah, sure.
Do you want to put you? Yeah. Check whatever box you want on Facebook.
I don't care. Like, in my opinion, we're dating. We're going on dates.
I remember, I remember though, we were dating for a while and there was like
a point where it was like, I remember so clearly we were sitting at my dining
(10:46):
table at my house and you were like, so what are we doing here?
Well, that is very different. Hold on, time out.
Because Kaylin had some immersive walls around her. I did.
And we were dating for a couple of months, at least a couple of months.
And by this point with most girls, I already knew the playbook.
(11:09):
I knew what makes them tick.
What makes them angry, what makes them happy, you know, this,
not that I'm saying, I'm not saying like I'm a manipulator by any means.
I wasn't, but like, I'm very good at understanding humans and people and understanding
what makes them tick and why they are the way they are.
And probably all their childhood trauma that goes along with it.
And so it was two months into Kaylin and I didn't really, you couldn't figure
(11:33):
me out, know her because she wasn't opening up to me, but I felt like you weren't
opening up to me. So then I didn't feel like.
I could have probably wasn't because honestly, I think I was so used to these
girls just being so vulnerable with me.
And I'm not saying I don't want to talk bad about any of them.
Like, I don't know what any of them are going through.
But like, they were all very vulnerable and honest with me to a point.
(11:53):
Sometimes I'm like, wow, this is a lot of information taken all at once.
And I think it's also because in most of my circles of friends,
I was kind of considered the good listener and the person you went to with all your troubles.
And so I naturally kind of fit that motif in a lot of these girls' minds as
far as like who I was in this relationship.
So I think just in general, my dating history, I would have gotten to know someone
(12:16):
in a very vulnerable way by that point.
And with you, it was just stoic. well you
weren't giving me anything either you you were like really weird
well i you had a weird job at the time
and so he was like he would never we would never go out
locally because he didn't want anyone to recognize him
because i was kind of a minor celebrity he was a minor celebrity i
(12:37):
i don't know if you want to dive into it i would have to okay and
so he like didn't want people to know
he was dating it felt like you were hiding me and so it was like we would only
go to my house when we went to your side of town you were like always like and
you would always take me to los angeles because you didn't want to well go on
(12:57):
dates in the area there's a couple of things here roll to you weren't really supposed to be like.
Going to bars or drinking or anything. And not that we were going crazy,
but it was like if you wanted to enjoy a cocktail.
There was this expectation in the job I had that I was kind of a public figure
and I had to hold myself as that way.
So never really felt like my life was necessarily private.
(13:18):
Now, I will say to my defense, whenever we did hang out in my local area,
people would always recognize me.
It was weird. And so it was. And then he would be like, he'd let go of my hand.
Sorry, I got to work for a bit here. And so it was one of those things
where it never quite felt like I could have a personal life at the moment
because it always felt like I would go out locally and people would
recognize me and then it felt like I was working and the
(13:40):
other reason I would take you to LA all that time is because I had just moved down from
LA to Orange County I knew nothing about Orange
County you would always be like well you're from here
so you can plan the date I don't know what to do
she's like where do we hike I don't know I don't know I mean
I could take you up to Griffith Park you didn't even know like on our first
we had like a first date you know where you meet and he was like i can go here
(14:03):
we can go here and i didn't like hear from you all that day i was like where
are we going i was very busy and then we met and i was like okay then i got
in your car that's a bad idea.
Yeah you're going on a whole bunch of tangents right now but i'm sorry rabbit
trail so yes i but i will say just to my defense real quick i might defend my
name and my honor when i would I would plan these great dates in L.A. Those were great dates.
(14:25):
Because I knew L.A. I lived there for 10 years. I think with dating too,
I really enjoyed those fun dates.
And I think you got to like really get to know each other and have fun along
the way. Dating is important.
Yeah, I kind of miss it. Do you miss it?
We still date. I mean, it's more complicated now with the kid,
but I think it's really important that you continue to intentionally try to date your spouse.
(14:47):
Not that you'll succeed at it because we fail at it all the time,
but it is nice when we get a moment away.
Then again, most of the time we get a moment away these days we're doing this podcast.
So this is now our dating. This is us dating. But I think to your earlier point
that started this whole tangent, do the people you've dated throughout your
life define who your eventual partner is going to be?
(15:07):
And I would I would say the answer is definitively yes, because I would say,
while I have been dating, you know, I had a longer dating history than you,
I did pick up on each of those relationships.
I like that. I don't like that. That doesn't work. That doesn't, that works.
And for me, you know, it was a big, big journey to go from, I was dating a lot
(15:27):
of people in the circles I was running with.
They were the exact opposite of my political affiliations. affiliations.
And I finally dated someone who has a little bit more in line politically with
them. Like, oh, this is really refreshing, but they weren't really in line with me religiously.
And then I found someone who was more in line with me religiously and a little bit more politically.
I'm like, oh, this is even better, but not quite there.
And so I do think that there was something about having those experiences of
(15:51):
like, oh, that actually makes relationship easier.
And when you're not at odds about this, this makes it easier.
And so I eventually arrived at the conclusion of like, I need to date someone
who has my political leanings, who is very much in line with what I'm seeking
religiously, you know, being a Christian.
And in fact, I recognize I need someone who's a stronger Christian than me to
(16:13):
be dating, at least at the moment.
And I felt like I was a very...
I wasn't a new Christian, but I'd say I was kind of more of a baby Christian
in the fact that I don't think I was very strong in my beliefs.
And so I kind of wanted to date someone who was much stronger,
more grounded in what they believed,
because I felt like that was going to help me ground my religion.
Now, I shouldn't have put that upon anyone in a relationship,
and that was a wrong take, but it did help me lead me to you,
(16:38):
which made me recognize I need someone who is strong in their faith and not
wishy-washy, like I'm also wishy-washy.
Like I wanted someone who was- And now you are like- rock
solid on on faith and and you know and
i feel like you're a spiritual leader in our family and i don't know
if that was like the case when we were first dating which is
why i was like hesitant dating you i think in the
(16:59):
beginning it's like okay i really like this person we
get along communication is easy we align
on this we align on that he says he's a christian i we agree about out a lot
of things biblically but at the time your job didn't allow you to go to church
regularly so that was kind of a yellow flag for me but you had a desire to you had a desire to grow.
(17:24):
So yeah i mean i think a lot of people at the time when i was first dating you were like,
what are you doing this guy's bad news this guy's not he should be like well
and your job was really busy so it was like we'd have a date and then like two
weeks later you're like okay now i can see you Yeah.
So it was just complicated. But in my gut and my heart, I think I knew something was different.
(17:48):
I would never say love at first sight is something I believe in.
But I do think you should trust your gut when dating someone.
Because I think you know, like, this is right. This isn't right.
I don't know. Maybe I'm intuitive.
Maybe. I mean, I think what is it that made you feel like it was right?
And then what made you in previous cases, or maybe even in my my case almost
run for the hills run for the run for the hills i don't know i mean i think
(18:13):
there was definitely like like okay i like them as a person as a friend can i see myself.
Like do i find them attractive i think that was like a big one and a lot of times it was like,
Not really like they're quite the eye twitch there. I mean, like,
it's not like they were unattractive. It was just like, I just don't find them attractive to me.
(18:35):
Right. And I mean, and it was like, you know, personality wise or like,
oh, this person just talks a lot.
And I don't like that. Like, I like quiet and I like feeling I remember dating
someone and there would be silence and it would be uncomfortable.
Comfortable and then i remember hanging out with you in
the silence it felt comfortable and i
(18:58):
was like oh that's different i don't
know there was just like little things those little those little
moments that you pick up on what things being observant and
and you should observe those moments that are
working in any relationship and those that are not yeah
because that helps you to find again when you finally find something that feels
like the one the one and i felt like when when we met like I was really engaged
(19:21):
in the conversation we were having and sometimes when I'd go on dates with people
where I didn't feel the vibe I would be thinking about so many other things in my head.
While like listening to them whereas with you
I was like really engaged instead of making a grocery
list yes you're so engaged in fact that first date
that you got into my car which is kind of crazy well we
(19:42):
yes I could I could have been a terrible I could
have been a you know like an axe murder i don't know what i was thinking and
my roommate at the time her her sorry her dad
was a cop and he was like what did you do but we
went on a date and we it was like friday night
so it was like coffee or drinks and he was i was like let's do drinks it's friday
night like cool so we had like two drinks it had been two hours and he's like
(20:06):
well where can we go from here and it was there was like a coffee shop but it
was too far to walk but it was like a half a mile down the road or a mile down
the road or something and he's like well like i can just drive us and i was like.
Okay got into my very sexy kia soul with a
little hamster on the like oh yeah shift gear thingy
and we went and had coffee and you wanted the date
(20:28):
to keep on going you were like i think that was the first
sign for me i think most of the time i like my alone time
and it was very surprising to
me that i was so interested in continuing this conversation
and in fact when i drove home that night that
was my thing i was thinking about i go why didn't i want to leave because
most of the the time two drinks i'm ready to
(20:48):
leave i'm ready to go home and and i
really enjoy the conversation and i don't think i
went into i did not go into our date with any expectation of
well maybe this will be a long-term relationship i went to the into the date
being like i'm gonna make sure there's nothing else out there because i'm pretty
sure i'm gonna go back and get with my ex and propose to her that
was kind of the mindset i was in you knew that well not
(21:09):
until like later down the road right well yes but
now i know that now you know that and i'm like well because
i thought like that that's that's as good as it's gonna get and that's
like so so sad for you and for her if that was like
your story you know because like she deserves better than that and she does
better than that it wasn't meant to be so but i was so shocked that i was so
wanting to because it was like 12 30 and i was like i'm gonna go home yeah but
(21:34):
i would love to like continue this another day And we did. And we did.
And yeah. I think there's just a lot of benefits in not only dating with intention,
which Kaylin did very well, and I did very poorly until I met her,
when she kind of forced me into dating with intention.
But also, just taking note. When you go on a date with someone,
(21:57):
I think you should really catalog what did you like, what did you not like,
and pay actual attention. It's supposed to be like, I don't know.
It just wasn't a good date. Didn't feel it. that the vibe wasn't right.
Like when you really start to analyze your dating habits or the people you're
dating and what's not working and what's and what is working,
I think it helps identify for you a path to find that forever.
(22:20):
Someone did you think like in our dating relationship, did you think it just
came easy and naturally versus previous relationships since you've had those relationships?
That's a good question. I think it came very easy and naturally.
Whereas I would say I've had some relationship in the past where it felt like work.
And I would identify, I knew a lot of the work moments were because of differences
(22:41):
in values or politics, things like that.
So which is why I knew I kind of want someone who's more in line with me,
knowing that that would help make things easier.
Because marriage is hard, as we now know. It is hard.
It's great, but it's hard. You need to be so good at dating and so good with
your spouse at where you're at before you get married because marriage throws
(23:05):
a whole new set of obstacles your way.
And so you need to be so good as a couple before getting engaged,
in my opinion, and before getting married so that when you are prepared for
what marriage is going to throw at you, it's going to throw a whole new set of trials to you.
And you need to be so lock solid as a couple.
(23:25):
And I would say I thought we were pretty lock solid as a couple before we got married.
But even at that, there have been moments where our foundation has shook a little
bit with the things we've had to go through. Yeah, definitely.
I think, too, with our relationship, it was a slow burn, I would say.
I knew I was attracted to you from the beginning, but we took our time to get
to know each other. It's like peeling an onion.
(23:46):
We really took our time to get to know each other. And I think we built a friendship as well.
But it was like a friendship with like, I really like you.
But I think that's also really important that there's a friendship there.
Yeah. Because you had to think about it. It was like a friendship,
but you also like to make out.
One of the things that I thought about when dating, and I don't know if you
ever thought about this intentionally, was that love changes over time. It does.
(24:10):
And your relationship changes over time. And so making sure that,
yes, you're romantically into this person, but also that there's a friendship
there and that's that's going to go on forever beyond the romantic involvement.
Because if you don't have that, if you don't enjoy the same things or if you
don't appreciate the other person's interests, there's going to be issues down
the line because you can't hang everything on romance.
(24:34):
No. That's too much to put on that the romance hook, if you will.
It's going to fall off the wall. It kind of goes away. way.
I mean, like, there's some times, especially when it ebbs and flows.
I mean, I love him. He's wonderful.
But at the same time, there's times, especially like when you have a kid,
or like when life gets busy, where it does feel like you're roommates for a minute.
(24:55):
I mean, and like, that goes away too.
And then you feel like you're like husband and wife and all that.
But yeah, it's really important to have that friendship, that foundation.
I mean, we took our time. Like, we didn't say I love you until almost a year in.
And then life did get hard. We had a pandemic.
We had some health issues that we dealt with. We had this little thing called
(25:18):
2020 that happened. I mean, you had like a couple cancer scare moments.
Like you had some physical stuff that you were dealing with.
Like we went to the ER together.
Like we went through the ringer before we got married.
Which was kind of nice to do. And I mean, I'm thankful that the Lord put us
through those things because I think.
(25:38):
God prepared us for marriage and for our vows to say, yeah, for better,
for worse, in sickness and in health.
And like, that's what you want when you're dating. You want someone who's going
to be your best friend and go through all those things with you and know that
you can depend on them. Stand by your side. Yeah.
So that's how you do it. That's how you do it. That's how you date with intention.
Not my story, Kaylin's story. Well, I mean, but I think all paths lead us there, right?
(26:03):
I remember praying for you in junior high, please Lord, bring me the man that
you want for me and I'll wait for as long as I need to.
Whatever path he needs to get to to find his way to me, that will work.
And if that means he has to date a lot and get like, I mean,
you learned a lot from your other relationships.
(26:25):
So it's like you can't have regrets about it. No.
You need to accept your partner for who they are when you meet them.
I don't think I hold your past relationships against you.
No. I mean, it's- You don't like it when I say, oh yeah, one time I was with
this friend. Because I'm like, you were with a girlfriend. Like,
I know. Which girlfriend was it?
And it's like, I don't know these people, so it's fine. Like,
(26:47):
if you were still friends with them, I feel like that would be weird.
Yeah. But I mean, it's like, okay. We did have one ex come to our wedding.
Did we? Oh, well, time for another episode. And so, but I think this is all
really good and I hope it's, it's helpful for those who are out there and trying
to find the one or dating.
(27:08):
And I guess the only thing I would close with is just, you know,
I think Kaylin did a really great job dating with intention.
And I just want to compliment her with that because it's not something that
I did very well. And no matter where you're on your journey,
you can always turn it around.
And I think it was a few months into dating Kaylin where I was like,
oh, you know what? what, like I probably should start looking at this as a long-term
(27:30):
thing and not just say, hey, you're hanging out and dating a girl thing.
And then I really felt pursued. And I think that changed- The dynamic?
Absolutely. Because it was like, oh, I am being pursued and treasured.
And that is so important.
And people around me saw that because they were like, you deserve the best.
And it's like, you finally became the best.
(27:53):
Yeah, so I think it is important to date with intention And I think it's important
to, as a woman, be pursued and as a man, pursue someone.
I'm going to call this episode The Journey to Me Being the Best. Okay.
All right. You got anything else? No, I think that's it. It's a good talk.
It's a good conversation.
I enjoyed this. It's like a little fireside chat about dating.
Oh, I wish we had a fireplace.
(28:15):
Oh, well, we live in Arizona, so it would kind of be miserable most of the year.
If you like the show, you can subscribe, click the bell.
You can follow us on social. Instagram?
Tiktok you got it anything else that's it i'm justin kaylin catch you later bye.
You and I had very different dating experiences before we met each other.
Yes. Completely opposite.
Someone was a womanizer. Oh, hold up. That's how you're going to start this
show? I was not a womanizer.
Well, you had a lot of ladies chasing after you.
(00:20):
I would say that I was just putting myself out there a bit more than maybe you were, but a womanizer.
Wow, that's really what you thought of me? No. Then why'd you date me? I don't know.
There's something about you that was different. It was that swagger.
I walked in with a leather jacket. You had a good day that day and it had nothing to do with me.
(00:43):
I did have a very good day that day.
Yes, we had very different, I think, outlooks on dating. Very different dating experiences.
I would say I don't think you thought seriously about dating.
Until you met me. I think it would even be about a few months into, after we met.
(01:07):
Which I could sense, but I mean, how would you define your dating?
Like convenient friendships?
Well, I guess I would start by saying this way. I don't think I ever,
I feel like with you, what made it different, and this is, I think, important.
I think it's the reason that our relationship worked and I lost it,
is it really felt like we were dating dating and dating
(01:28):
each other in a very intentional way and i think that
that's thanks to you really shaping your
availability that way of like if you want if
you want to get to know me you're going to have to meet my family and do this
and do that and it was you're very intentional about how you allowed me to date
you i would say well i think it was different too because the way we met is
(01:50):
us modern times was on a dating app which is where most people meet each other
these days which Which is,
yeah, but I think because you're, not all the dating apps, but I think you're
when you weed out the people, you're saying, I'm looking for a partner.
I want to date with intention.
That was my outlook on dating. That was your mindset. I wouldn't say that's
(02:13):
the majority even of most people on a dating app. I wouldn't say that's the
majority, but that's what you're looking for and what you're hoping for.
I think if you're on a paid dating app, then you're definitely dating with intention.
I'm serious about- You got money invested in this now. Yes. I have a financial investment.
I had some friends who did like one of those Christian dating sites.
(02:34):
And that was like, I am serious about finding a husband or a wife.
That almost seems too serious. It was a bit too serious. So I was like,
I'm going to dabble in this.
I'm going to dabble. So we met on a dating app. We met on a dating app.
Which I got on as a joke, but also not as a joke.
Because I was in a point in my life where I had had...
A previous relationship. relationship previous relationship i was
(02:57):
gonna say that i've been through the gauntlet of women as caitlin often
refers to it but i had a previous relationship where i
was like is this is this it like is this as good as it's going to get like is
this as as close in alignment of my values and who i am and like what i am hoping
to kind of have in a in a life partner is going to to happen is this the kind
of person i grow with and it's something my gut just said like maybe maybe maybe
(03:20):
not and i I think if you're asking that question,
then they're not the right person for you. Correct.
Because I, like, rewind. Like, I was very prayerful about dating.
I very much asked the Lord to spare my heart of heartbreak as much as possible, whatever that meant.
(03:41):
It meant I had to wait a while. It meant that you never dated. But I didn't.
You went on dates. I went on dates. But you didn't have any relationships.
I didn't have any. I never had a long-term relationship until we met.
That's not a long-term relationship. What did that last? A couple months?
Just like two or three months. It's not a long-term relationship.
But I knew in my gut that something was wrong in that relationship.
(04:06):
Even two or three months in? Yeah.
And then I would say because of that relationship, any other date I went on
from then on, I knew in my gut something wasn't right. Right.
So Kaylin from the beginning was very good about if she was going to date, dating with intention.
And where did that come from? Was that from church or from parents or a combination
(04:27):
of all of it? All of it. I think.
Did all your siblings kind of trade dating the same way? I don't know. I'm not sure.
I mean, you'd have to ask them. But I mean, four out of five are married.
It's true. So, you know, I, I remember my sister went through a really hard
breakup in like high school, college, and she was just really heartbroken.
(04:50):
And I knew I didn't want that for my life.
I didn't want to be heartbroken. And so.
Like, I was really sad that she had to go through that. And like,
her and I are really close. So I just was like, I don't want that. So how do I avoid that?
And I mean, I did read a lot of books on marriage and like, was part of youth
groups and young things.
(05:10):
And they always talk about relationships. And I do disagree on some of the things that I had heard.
Like, I had heard that two Christians, no matter what the situation,
can make a marriage work.
And while I do agree because
you believe that marriage is a covenant and
you're going to work through the hard things I just don't think that's like the magic
(05:31):
makeup of a relationship I think there is more to
it like you have to have good communication styles like they have to have strengths
that maybe you don't have like I do think there's way more to finding a partner
than just compatibility is not just a religion preference checkbox that where
you both Well, that's what we identify as.
(05:52):
And I mean, like, I would say, like, you can have different theology.
Like, you can still be a Christian and have different theologies.
Right. And that's going to cause discourse in your life.
Or even different ideas of how you're going to raise kids. There's so much to it. So, I mean...
Yes, I think I had always wanted to date with purpose and I wanted to get married
(06:15):
and I wanted to have kids and I wanted to save myself for marriage.
So much so that on date one, what do you want to do with your life?
I was like, I want to be married and I want to have kids and I want to stay
home with my babies. And he was like, whoa.
And I was like, whatever. Like, I think when you're on a dating app and you're
meeting a stranger, there is some sort of like freedom just to say what you want and what.
(06:39):
But because you're like, whatever, if this doesn't work out,
I'm never going to see them again. Because it's not like someone at work where
it's like encounter in the hallway again.
Or like, you know, I went on dates with like friends from youth group or like
my small group or whatever.
And it's like, I really like you as a friend. I'm so sorry. Like,
I wish there was more, but like, there's just not.
And there's something to that. And I knew when I met you, there was something
(07:01):
different about you. Like, I was. I mean. Come on.
He's a catch. but you
walked in with such confidence and you know what it was
so nice because i felt like for the first time
it was like oh he is attracted to me and i'm attracted
to him and i felt like there was a lot of times
like guys would be attracted to me but i was like i like them as a person but
(07:25):
i just don't did you go on a lot of pity dates where you just kind of took the
free dinner i was like i'll see if there's something there but at the end of
the day you're like no i wouldn't say it was a pity date but like it was kind
of like i don't think there's anything here but like I should try. Plus free meal.
And you love food. I do love food, but not enough to know because there's a
(07:45):
lot of dates I went on where I'd be like, you know what? I'd rather be home.
Like I had really great girlfriends that I enjoyed spending time with.
I was like, I'd rather be sitting on the couch, like eating pizza and watching
my British TV shows with them than being on this date right now.
And I really want this to end.
And how do I get out of it? And please can I go home soon?
(08:07):
But no, I think every date though led to like,
what we have too so i mean like do you think dating all these women all the
women the full gauntlet of women led to us meeting and knowing like that this is right versus,
yeah i think there's definitely what was your approach
(08:29):
i guess too well my approach was i just
let whatever happened happen they came
after you kind of just sat back and and watched
it all take place yeah i would say that
i never really throughout my entire life there's maybe one or two girls that
i would say i pursued but most women that i dated and have only dated women
(08:53):
just the way i phrased that felt like i had to define that was they they definitely.
Flirted their way their way to getting me to ask them how i would i like i wouldn't
say like they they were all attractive and funny or, you know,
quirky or whatever they were in their own regard.
But they're like, I wasn't necessarily a person who was looking to date someone.
(09:16):
I would feel like it was like people. Yeah. It was more convenient.
And they'd be like, foot with me a lot. I'm like, Oh, they're cute.
And then it'd be like, well, okay. Do you want to like go out to dinner?
And then I would find myself in this constant sort of pattern of them sort of
forcing me into a relationship with them when I don't think I really was ready for it.
But I was like, whatever. If you want to put a relationship label on it,
(09:37):
slap it on and I don't care.
You were so weird about that when we were dating. We dated for like a while and I was like,
I was always like, am I his girlfriend? He's never called me his girlfriend, boyfriend.
Like, I don't know when you started doing that.
I was just like, this is Caitlin. And then when we got engaged,
when we got engaged, he still called me his girlfriend. And he's like, whatever.
(10:00):
Like, you're going to be my wife soon. I'm not going to like you as a fiance in the meantime.
Well, I never, I don't think I've ever really been into labels.
Like I always used to, I think one of my biggest pet peeve with dating is that
you get that conversation like, so. So define the relationship.
Are we girlfriend and boyfriend now? And I'm like, I don't know.
Maybe like, well, we're going on dates and we've been dating for like,
(10:23):
you know, two months. I'm like, right. I go, we're dating.
They go, so are we in a relationship? I go, yeah, sure.
Do you want to put you? Yeah. Check whatever box you want on Facebook.
I don't care. Like, in my opinion, we're dating. We're going on dates.
I remember, I remember though, we were dating for a while and there was like
a point where it was like, I remember so clearly we were sitting at my dining
(10:46):
table at my house and you were like, so what are we doing here?
Well, that is very different. Hold on, time out.
Because Kaylin had some immersive walls around her. I did.
And we were dating for a couple of months, at least a couple of months.
And by this point with most girls, I already knew the playbook.
(11:09):
I knew what makes them tick.
What makes them angry, what makes them happy, you know, this,
not that I'm saying, I'm not saying like I'm a manipulator by any means.
I wasn't, but like, I'm very good at understanding humans and people and understanding
what makes them tick and why they are the way they are.
And probably all their childhood trauma that goes along with it.
And so it was two months into Kaylin and I didn't really, you couldn't figure
(11:33):
me out, know her because she wasn't opening up to me, but I felt like you weren't
opening up to me. So then I didn't feel like.
I could have probably wasn't because honestly, I think I was so used to these
girls just being so vulnerable with me.
And I'm not saying I don't want to talk bad about any of them.
Like, I don't know what any of them are going through.
But like, they were all very vulnerable and honest with me to a point.
(11:53):
Sometimes I'm like, wow, this is a lot of information taken all at once.
And I think it's also because in most of my circles of friends,
I was kind of considered the good listener and the person you went to with all your troubles.
And so I naturally kind of fit that motif in a lot of these girls' minds as
far as like who I was in this relationship.
So I think just in general, my dating history, I would have gotten to know someone
(12:16):
in a very vulnerable way by that point.
And with you, it was just stoic. well you
weren't giving me anything either you you were like really weird
well i you had a weird job at the time
and so he was like he would never we would never go out
locally because he didn't want anyone to recognize him
because i was kind of a minor celebrity he was a minor celebrity i
(12:37):
i don't know if you want to dive into it i would have to okay and
so he like didn't want people to know
he was dating it felt like you were hiding me and so it was like we would only
go to my house when we went to your side of town you were like always like and
you would always take me to los angeles because you didn't want to well go on
(12:57):
dates in the area there's a couple of things here roll to you weren't really supposed to be like.
Going to bars or drinking or anything. And not that we were going crazy,
but it was like if you wanted to enjoy a cocktail.
There was this expectation in the job I had that I was kind of a public figure
and I had to hold myself as that way.
So never really felt like my life was necessarily private.
(13:18):
Now, I will say to my defense, whenever we did hang out in my local area,
people would always recognize me.
It was weird. And so it was. And then he would be like, he'd let go of my hand.
Sorry, I got to work for a bit here. And so it was one of those things
where it never quite felt like I could have a personal life at the moment
because it always felt like I would go out locally and people would
recognize me and then it felt like I was working and the
(13:40):
other reason I would take you to LA all that time is because I had just moved down from
LA to Orange County I knew nothing about Orange
County you would always be like well you're from here
so you can plan the date I don't know what to do
she's like where do we hike I don't know I don't know I mean
I could take you up to Griffith Park you didn't even know like on our first
we had like a first date you know where you meet and he was like i can go here
(14:03):
we can go here and i didn't like hear from you all that day i was like where
are we going i was very busy and then we met and i was like okay then i got
in your car that's a bad idea.
Yeah you're going on a whole bunch of tangents right now but i'm sorry rabbit
trail so yes i but i will say just to my defense real quick i might defend my
name and my honor when i would I would plan these great dates in L.A. Those were great dates.
(14:25):
Because I knew L.A. I lived there for 10 years. I think with dating too,
I really enjoyed those fun dates.
And I think you got to like really get to know each other and have fun along
the way. Dating is important.
Yeah, I kind of miss it. Do you miss it?
We still date. I mean, it's more complicated now with the kid,
but I think it's really important that you continue to intentionally try to date your spouse.
(14:47):
Not that you'll succeed at it because we fail at it all the time,
but it is nice when we get a moment away.
Then again, most of the time we get a moment away these days we're doing this podcast.
So this is now our dating. This is us dating. But I think to your earlier point
that started this whole tangent, do the people you've dated throughout your
life define who your eventual partner is going to be?
(15:07):
And I would I would say the answer is definitively yes, because I would say,
while I have been dating, you know, I had a longer dating history than you,
I did pick up on each of those relationships.
I like that. I don't like that. That doesn't work. That doesn't, that works.
And for me, you know, it was a big, big journey to go from, I was dating a lot
(15:27):
of people in the circles I was running with.
They were the exact opposite of my political affiliations. affiliations.
And I finally dated someone who has a little bit more in line politically with
them. Like, oh, this is really refreshing, but they weren't really in line with me religiously.
And then I found someone who was more in line with me religiously and a little bit more politically.
I'm like, oh, this is even better, but not quite there.
And so I do think that there was something about having those experiences of
(15:51):
like, oh, that actually makes relationship easier.
And when you're not at odds about this, this makes it easier.
And so I eventually arrived at the conclusion of like, I need to date someone
who has my political leanings, who is very much in line with what I'm seeking
religiously, you know, being a Christian.
And in fact, I recognize I need someone who's a stronger Christian than me to
(16:13):
be dating, at least at the moment.
And I felt like I was a very...
I wasn't a new Christian, but I'd say I was kind of more of a baby Christian
in the fact that I don't think I was very strong in my beliefs.
And so I kind of wanted to date someone who was much stronger,
more grounded in what they believed,
because I felt like that was going to help me ground my religion.
Now, I shouldn't have put that upon anyone in a relationship,
and that was a wrong take, but it did help me lead me to you,
(16:38):
which made me recognize I need someone who is strong in their faith and not
wishy-washy, like I'm also wishy-washy.
Like I wanted someone who was- And now you are like- rock
solid on on faith and and you know and
i feel like you're a spiritual leader in our family and i don't know
if that was like the case when we were first dating which is
why i was like hesitant dating you i think in the
(16:59):
beginning it's like okay i really like this person we
get along communication is easy we align
on this we align on that he says he's a christian i we agree about out a lot
of things biblically but at the time your job didn't allow you to go to church
regularly so that was kind of a yellow flag for me but you had a desire to you had a desire to grow.
(17:24):
So yeah i mean i think a lot of people at the time when i was first dating you were like,
what are you doing this guy's bad news this guy's not he should be like well
and your job was really busy so it was like we'd have a date and then like two
weeks later you're like okay now i can see you Yeah.
So it was just complicated. But in my gut and my heart, I think I knew something was different.
(17:48):
I would never say love at first sight is something I believe in.
But I do think you should trust your gut when dating someone.
Because I think you know, like, this is right. This isn't right.
I don't know. Maybe I'm intuitive.
Maybe. I mean, I think what is it that made you feel like it was right?
And then what made you in previous cases, or maybe even in my my case almost
run for the hills run for the run for the hills i don't know i mean i think
(18:13):
there was definitely like like okay i like them as a person as a friend can i see myself.
Like do i find them attractive i think that was like a big one and a lot of times it was like,
Not really like they're quite the eye twitch there. I mean, like,
it's not like they were unattractive. It was just like, I just don't find them attractive to me.
(18:35):
Right. And I mean, and it was like, you know, personality wise or like,
oh, this person just talks a lot.
And I don't like that. Like, I like quiet and I like feeling I remember dating
someone and there would be silence and it would be uncomfortable.
Comfortable and then i remember hanging out with you in
the silence it felt comfortable and i
(18:58):
was like oh that's different i don't
know there was just like little things those little those little
moments that you pick up on what things being observant and
and you should observe those moments that are
working in any relationship and those that are not yeah
because that helps you to find again when you finally find something that feels
like the one the one and i felt like when when we met like I was really engaged
(19:21):
in the conversation we were having and sometimes when I'd go on dates with people
where I didn't feel the vibe I would be thinking about so many other things in my head.
While like listening to them whereas with you
I was like really engaged instead of making a grocery
list yes you're so engaged in fact that first date
that you got into my car which is kind of crazy well we
(19:42):
yes I could I could have been a terrible I could
have been a you know like an axe murder i don't know what i was thinking and
my roommate at the time her her sorry her dad
was a cop and he was like what did you do but we
went on a date and we it was like friday night
so it was like coffee or drinks and he was i was like let's do drinks it's friday
night like cool so we had like two drinks it had been two hours and he's like
(20:06):
well where can we go from here and it was there was like a coffee shop but it
was too far to walk but it was like a half a mile down the road or a mile down
the road or something and he's like well like i can just drive us and i was like.
Okay got into my very sexy kia soul with a
little hamster on the like oh yeah shift gear thingy
and we went and had coffee and you wanted the date
(20:28):
to keep on going you were like i think that was the first
sign for me i think most of the time i like my alone time
and it was very surprising to
me that i was so interested in continuing this conversation
and in fact when i drove home that night that
was my thing i was thinking about i go why didn't i want to leave because
most of the the time two drinks i'm ready to
(20:48):
leave i'm ready to go home and and i
really enjoy the conversation and i don't think i
went into i did not go into our date with any expectation of
well maybe this will be a long-term relationship i went to the into the date
being like i'm gonna make sure there's nothing else out there because i'm pretty
sure i'm gonna go back and get with my ex and propose to her that
was kind of the mindset i was in you knew that well not
(21:09):
until like later down the road right well yes but
now i know that now you know that and i'm like well because
i thought like that that's that's as good as it's gonna get and that's
like so so sad for you and for her if that was like
your story you know because like she deserves better than that and she does
better than that it wasn't meant to be so but i was so shocked that i was so
wanting to because it was like 12 30 and i was like i'm gonna go home yeah but
(21:34):
i would love to like continue this another day And we did. And we did.
And yeah. I think there's just a lot of benefits in not only dating with intention,
which Kaylin did very well, and I did very poorly until I met her,
when she kind of forced me into dating with intention.
But also, just taking note. When you go on a date with someone,
(21:57):
I think you should really catalog what did you like, what did you not like,
and pay actual attention. It's supposed to be like, I don't know.
It just wasn't a good date. Didn't feel it. that the vibe wasn't right.
Like when you really start to analyze your dating habits or the people you're
dating and what's not working and what's and what is working,
I think it helps identify for you a path to find that forever.
(22:20):
Someone did you think like in our dating relationship, did you think it just
came easy and naturally versus previous relationships since you've had those relationships?
That's a good question. I think it came very easy and naturally.
Whereas I would say I've had some relationship in the past where it felt like work.
And I would identify, I knew a lot of the work moments were because of differences
(22:41):
in values or politics, things like that.
So which is why I knew I kind of want someone who's more in line with me,
knowing that that would help make things easier.
Because marriage is hard, as we now know. It is hard.
It's great, but it's hard. You need to be so good at dating and so good with
your spouse at where you're at before you get married because marriage throws
(23:05):
a whole new set of obstacles your way.
And so you need to be so good as a couple before getting engaged,
in my opinion, and before getting married so that when you are prepared for
what marriage is going to throw at you, it's going to throw a whole new set of trials to you.
And you need to be so lock solid as a couple.
(23:25):
And I would say I thought we were pretty lock solid as a couple before we got married.
But even at that, there have been moments where our foundation has shook a little
bit with the things we've had to go through. Yeah, definitely.
I think, too, with our relationship, it was a slow burn, I would say.
I knew I was attracted to you from the beginning, but we took our time to get
to know each other. It's like peeling an onion.
(23:46):
We really took our time to get to know each other. And I think we built a friendship as well.
But it was like a friendship with like, I really like you.
But I think that's also really important that there's a friendship there.
Yeah. Because you had to think about it. It was like a friendship,
but you also like to make out.
One of the things that I thought about when dating, and I don't know if you
ever thought about this intentionally, was that love changes over time. It does.
(24:10):
And your relationship changes over time. And so making sure that,
yes, you're romantically into this person, but also that there's a friendship
there and that's that's going to go on forever beyond the romantic involvement.
Because if you don't have that, if you don't enjoy the same things or if you
don't appreciate the other person's interests, there's going to be issues down
the line because you can't hang everything on romance.
(24:34):
No. That's too much to put on that the romance hook, if you will.
It's going to fall off the wall. It kind of goes away. way.
I mean, like, there's some times, especially when it ebbs and flows.
I mean, I love him. He's wonderful.
But at the same time, there's times, especially like when you have a kid,
or like when life gets busy, where it does feel like you're roommates for a minute.
(24:55):
I mean, and like, that goes away too.
And then you feel like you're like husband and wife and all that.
But yeah, it's really important to have that friendship, that foundation.
I mean, we took our time. Like, we didn't say I love you until almost a year in.
And then life did get hard. We had a pandemic.
We had some health issues that we dealt with. We had this little thing called
(25:18):
2020 that happened. I mean, you had like a couple cancer scare moments.
Like you had some physical stuff that you were dealing with.
Like we went to the ER together.
Like we went through the ringer before we got married.
Which was kind of nice to do. And I mean, I'm thankful that the Lord put us
through those things because I think.
(25:38):
God prepared us for marriage and for our vows to say, yeah, for better,
for worse, in sickness and in health.
And like, that's what you want when you're dating. You want someone who's going
to be your best friend and go through all those things with you and know that
you can depend on them. Stand by your side. Yeah.
So that's how you do it. That's how you do it. That's how you date with intention.
Not my story, Kaylin's story. Well, I mean, but I think all paths lead us there, right?
(26:03):
I remember praying for you in junior high, please Lord, bring me the man that
you want for me and I'll wait for as long as I need to.
Whatever path he needs to get to to find his way to me, that will work.
And if that means he has to date a lot and get like, I mean,
you learned a lot from your other relationships.
(26:25):
So it's like you can't have regrets about it. No.
You need to accept your partner for who they are when you meet them.
I don't think I hold your past relationships against you.
No. I mean, it's- You don't like it when I say, oh yeah, one time I was with
this friend. Because I'm like, you were with a girlfriend. Like,
I know. Which girlfriend was it?
And it's like, I don't know these people, so it's fine. Like,
(26:47):
if you were still friends with them, I feel like that would be weird.
Yeah. But I mean, it's like, okay. We did have one ex come to our wedding.
Did we? Oh, well, time for another episode. And so, but I think this is all
really good and I hope it's, it's helpful for those who are out there and trying
to find the one or dating.
(27:08):
And I guess the only thing I would close with is just, you know,
I think Kaylin did a really great job dating with intention.
And I just want to compliment her with that because it's not something that
I did very well. And no matter where you're on your journey,
you can always turn it around.
And I think it was a few months into dating Kaylin where I was like,
oh, you know what? what, like I probably should start looking at this as a long-term
(27:30):
thing and not just say, hey, you're hanging out and dating a girl thing.
And then I really felt pursued. And I think that changed- The dynamic?
Absolutely. Because it was like, oh, I am being pursued and treasured.
And that is so important.
And people around me saw that because they were like, you deserve the best.
And it's like, you finally became the best.
(27:53):
Yeah, so I think it is important to date with intention And I think it's important
to, as a woman, be pursued and as a man, pursue someone.
I'm going to call this episode The Journey to Me Being the Best. Okay.
All right. You got anything else? No, I think that's it. It's a good talk.
It's a good conversation.
I enjoyed this. It's like a little fireside chat about dating.
Oh, I wish we had a fireplace.
(28:15):
Oh, well, we live in Arizona, so it would kind of be miserable most of the year.
If you like the show, you can subscribe, click the bell.
You can follow us on social. Instagram?
Tiktok you got it anything else that's it i'm justin kaylin catch you later bye.
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