July 29, 2025 • 35 mins
Recorded July 29, 2025
Jennifer Bash and Danni Miller dig into the twisted layers of the Epstein case: from Ghislaine Maxwell’s connections to Virginia Giuffre’s mysterious death, to the sealed files and political silence still protecting the guilty. Why haven’t we seen the full list? Who’s really behind the cover-up?
#EpsteinCase #GhislaineMaxwell #VirginiaGiuffre #EpsteinFiles #UnsealedTruth #PoliticalCoverUp #DeepStateExposed #ConservativeVoices #ReasonableArguments #JenniferBash #DanniMiller #PodcastClip #InvestigativePodcast #EliteProtection #TrueCrimePolitics #news #trump #podcast #politics @DonaldJTrumpforPresident @FoxNews
Chapters 00:00 Introduction and New Beginnings 00:28 Exploring the Epstein and Ghislaine Documentaries 03:51 Victimhood and Agency in Recruitment 07:46 The Role of Money and Power in Justice 10:02 Political Implications and Conspiracy Theories 14:56 The Depths of Corruption and Power 19:01 Conclusion: The Cycle of Impunity 19:19 Political Accountability and Public Awareness 21:08 The Impact of CTE on Athletes 24:25 Current Events and Political Climate 26:53 Media Influence and Public Perception 30:25 Free Speech and Media Responsibility
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So reasonable arguments is back after God, I don't know how long.
(00:04):
And it's going to look a little different because now I have a new co host, Danni Miller,who is no relation to Jamie, but ah might have a little different type of commentary
coming from her.
So we'll see how this goes.
But
So one of the things we're gonna start talking about right away is obviously the Epsteinstuff.
(00:26):
I mean this is everywhere.
Jamie and I binged the Epstein documentary and the Ghislaine documentary which was onlyone episode.
The Epstein one was four and I told you to watch the Ghislaine one last night so what areyour thoughts honestly?
Well, I think incredible.
(00:49):
Like she's definitely as evil or more evil than he was.
I mean, obviously he's the blame.
I get it.
But first we need to discuss how to pronounce her name because clearly even in thedocumentary, they couldn't figure out how to pronounce her name.
There are 85 different pronunciations.
Not that that's relevant, but evil.
(01:09):
Yeah, evil Maxwell.
That's what we should call her.
Very narcissistic.
Just not a...
not a warm vein in her body.
So here's the thought that I got is, you know, they talked a lot about her dad and, youknow, her dad was very much a man like Epstein and, you know, her mother was this
(01:31):
shrinking violet who, you know, wasn't seen out in public.
You know, her father made her go out as kind of almost like his little trophy thing, whichis very sick.
So like when they started talking about after her father died,
And she almost needed a man just like him in her life to complete that.
(01:55):
And who's to say that she didn't do the same thing for her dad.
True.
He also, when he died, he had embezzled so much money, he left her with zero dollars andshe was not used to living like that.
So she had to figure out how am I going to continue living the way I am used to living.
Exactly.
(02:15):
you know, it just it's really just crazy that she was the one who was going out andfinding the girls and, you know, bringing them in.
had a conversation with someone this weekend about, you know, victims because, they a lotof the in the Epstein documentary, showed.
um you know, the girls who were brought in, who were recruiting people.
(02:39):
And the argument came about was, is how do you truly define them as a victim if they'rethen out recruiting other girls?
Like at what point do they become, you know, not co-conspirators, but...
you know, at what point like, and kind of the argument that was used was, okay, you take a13 year old gang banger, who, you know, recruited into a uh gang, starts killing people.
(03:08):
Well, why isn't he a victim?
Because he was only 13 years old, he was coerced, he was groomed, he was brought in.
And it's the same thing with these girls.
These girls know exactly what was going to happen.
They were bringing girls in to have that happen.
So
were living the life.
were, you know, given all the fancy clothes and into a 13, 14, 15, know, whatever, 20 yearold girl, especially, you know, a couple of them were in fashion industry.
(03:37):
That was, that meant a lot to them.
So I don't, I don't, maybe, and maybe when you're young and that age, you don't reallythink about it.
But then when you mature and you grow older, you realize, hey,
really taken advantage of and I was I was abused.
Well, and then the argument came up with some of the girls were in their 20s that wererecruited girls.
(04:01):
So are they true victims?
hard time with that because I don't, when you're 20 you don't make the best decisions butyou can't then go back and say well I was only 21 and I made the, no, no, you made the
decision, you were wrong.
I don't know, I really struggle with that because I don't see them as a victim at all.
(04:24):
Especially uh the one, the girl that they were talking about on the documentary thatworked at Bloomingdale's and worked, you know, she wore the shoes to the.
to the trial because she was a victim for so long.
I thought, you know what?
They didn't find you till you were 21.
You're not a victim.
You could have said no.
(04:44):
Yeah, no, no, that's Annie Farmer.
I do think he's a victim.
She was 16.
The one that wore the loafers.
Yes, the loafers.
She worked at a fancy, I think she worked at Tiffany's or something.
and they found her there and then she moved to Bloomingdale's and they found her there andthen she thought, I'm never getting away so I'm just gonna do it, you know, whatever.
(05:07):
I thought that was really, really weird and I did not feel like she was a victim at all.
No, the one in so Virginia um Ratcliffe, think her name was or no Roberts Virginia.
Guffrey or Roberts.
um We.
Yeah, and you know, she's now dead.
(05:27):
I I did not know that.
Yeah, so she had an accident in March.
She had a car accident, I believe, and a school bus hit her and she came through that.
And then in August, are saying that she committed suicide or in April, they are saying shecommitted suicide and they found her on her farm.
(05:48):
So conspiracy theory person in me, I'm like, okay, here, it's all coming up again.
You know, they're talking about releasing it and April of 2025, she's now dead.
And she's really the only person who named somebody.
Yeah, I think it's really odd that they say in those documentaries that there are over 500victims.
(06:12):
Where are they?
they, why, are they just, are you telling me 500 people don't want to come out and havetheir 20 minutes of fame?
I think it's a little...
we...
Well, Jamie and I had this argument because he's like, know, why, why isn't anybody naminganybody?
And I said, well, at this point, know, Epstein's dead, there's no money, they're not goingto get anything from this, right?
(06:37):
So the only them coming forward is only putting their name out in the public.
They know how many, you know, rich and powerful people are involved in this.
Virginia is now dead.
She's the one person who named someone and she's now dead.
You know, why would you even put yourself
in that situation to...
Epstein's worth billions.
(06:58):
There's gotta be money.
when he died, he was worth, I think it was 550 million, not even that much.
I'll have to look that up.
But I think it was 550 million.
But he had so much stuff out, like real estate stuff and everything like that.
It was gone.
Everything was gone.
(07:18):
And he just, yeah, there wasn't much left.
And the girls that came forward are the ones that got the money.
But that's really it.
a big deal out of that too, about the girls getting, they're doing this just for themoney, to get the money, you know.
Well, if they were molested and they were basically prostituted, they should get money.
(07:42):
I think the same thing.
think that if they're willing to put themselves out there, show their face, tell theirstory, risk whatever could possibly happen, yeah, I think you deserve it.
I mean, they were probably scared.
People were dying left and right because of this.
And so they were probably scared too.
(08:04):
Exactly.
So, okay, so my next question is with Ghislaine, you know, should there's absolutely ifTrump pardons her, like I just like he honestly needs to watch the documentary.
He needs to go and watch the documentary and realize that she is the one who was bringingall of these girls to him.
(08:26):
Obviously they already know all of this.
Why do they need her?
They don't need her to tell any more story.
Well, here's, and this is where the other problem, I think, comes in.
So, you know, Trump is the one who, you know, shame on him for just opening his big mouthlike he does and promising to release these files.
He has, he does not have the say to release them.
(08:47):
So, Bondi is the one right now who is sitting on these files the same way Alexander Acostadid.
No one wanted to release these files, okay?
There's something in them, whoever they're protecting, whatever it may be.
We know Trump's names.
in itself.
Right.
We know Trump's names in the files.
I mean, that's been said.
then, you know, he goes on TMZ does a release where, you know, he suggests that his nameappears in the Epstein files because his enemies, Joe Biden, James Comey and Merrick
(09:18):
Garland put his name in there.
Well, OK, we know that's not true, but there's pictures.
they ran in the same social circles.
mean, she basically got Epstein into those social circles.
Right, and it doesn't mean that he had anything to do with a little girl.
(09:39):
That's not what being your name being in the file means.
So now, all this has come to light.
They're trying to, and are they trying to prolong it?
Are they trying to it to where, you know,
Ghislaine now releases all these names and you know she's this great person because nowshe released all the names we're gonna pardon her and you know let bygones be bygones I
(10:09):
don't think that should happen
I don't think that should happen either.
She should, they should say, they should say, we're going to retry you and in order tostay off death row, you better tell us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it.
enough on her at all.
I just think that...
Well, everybody kept saying, we have the files.
(10:31):
She said, Pam Bonnie, the files are sitting on my desk.
Cash Patel, we are going to make this right.
And then, and you know me, I am always a trumper.
I'm never gonna be against him in any way, shape or form, unless it comes out that he wasa diddler.
But I really don't think that he did anything to little girls.
A diddler.
(10:51):
That would be the only reason I would turn against him.
for him to get out there and say, we're still talking about this, you're still talkingabout this creepy guy, yes we are.
Because this affects over 500 little girls.
What if that was your little girl or your granddaughter?
Yes, we are talking about it because it needs, the people that did this and bought andtook those little girls in need to be punished.
(11:18):
Period.
Well, he brought it on himself because he campaigned about it.
I'm going to release the Epstein files.
OK, why?
Why is that?
Because honestly, do you think that had he not camped
going down, that's probably why they aren't doing it.
(11:38):
Every congressman, everybody in the House, everybody, everywhere is going down.
Well, think one of the things that they're, and they said this in both documentaries, isit's not so much about politicians as it is about large business owners and CEOs of large
businesses that are, well, because of these companies.
(12:05):
we'll think about if these companies go down.
Like we're talking major corporations, right?
And but but I but I said the same thing,
if you want, but I just think so be it.
So be it.
I agree.
I agree.
mean, it's out there now.
He promised that the files would be released.
It's up to Bondi now.
(12:25):
And, you know, I kind of did a rabbit hole search on her because I'm just, I don't knowhow I feel about her.
And, you know, just seeing...
theory around her ex-husband.
Well, I dug.
So she's been married twice, engaged, and now she's dating someone.
um And I dug, and both of them seem to be pretty squeaky clean.
(12:47):
Nothing really came out, whether or not, you know.
But mean, but Alexander Acosta didn't release anything either.
So there's something in there that nobody needs to see.
Yeah.
And that's what I said in my sub stack is that, if it is politicians, if that's what itcomes down to, then who do people trust?
(13:10):
At that point, who does anybody trust?
know it's scary.
We need you.
one of my friends put on one of the posts on Facebook about another show called um TheCandyman and the Clown, or The Clown and the Candyman, which was about John Wayne Gacy and
(13:31):
another serial killer um of young boys.
So this was all boys.
And um it was kind of like the same type of thing.
It was these two who murdered and raped and...
everything young boys and kind of trafficked young boys.
But then there was this other guy, this John David Norman, who basically had this thisthis ring of boy of young boy sex trafficking going on.
(13:59):
And he I mean, it was back in the day.
He recruiting them from this from just different areas in the same type of thing, excepthe ran off of index cards.
And every time he I think he was arrested twice.
And the first time that he was arrested, he went into jail.
He uh met another guy who worked with John Wayne Gacy, who was getting out of jail first.
(14:25):
And when he got out of jail first, he went and basically started up the business again,had it running, had it running good.
John Wayne or John um David Norman, you know, John David Norman got out of jail and gotright back into it.
So, and then he got arrested again.
You know, everything was seized.
All the index cards with all the kids' names on it were seized.
(14:48):
And somehow, miraculously, all of these cards disappear.
So it's like, you know, you have to think that if Ghislaine gets out of jail, what's goingto stop her from not going right back into it?
or somebody taking her out.
I don't think anybody takes her out.
I think she gets right back into it with one of the men that was involved in it anyway.
(15:13):
mean, it'd be, you know, I mean, she'd go to a different country and start it all upagain.
She has the connections.
Well, and she was the mastermind of all of it anyway.
She gave Epstein all the connections.
She's the one that helped him, you know, get his name out there and rise in the circles ofthe, you know, elites.
(15:34):
Yes, absolutely.
All right.
So let's talk Russia gate.
What are your thoughts on Russiagate?
It's so maddening because again, nothing's gonna happen.
(15:54):
mean, Trump said himself Obama won't be prosecuted if in fact, you know, we already, Imean, I think there's plenty of proof out there, right?
That uh it depends on who you talk to, I guess, but there seems to be plenty of proof outthere that he was behind the whole thing.
But Trump already said he'll never be prosecuted because he has immunity.
Kind of the whole thing where Trump couldn't be prosecuted because he has immunity.
(16:18):
And so I'm thinking, you know what, I think it's great for Trump because in fact he didn'tdo the things that he was accused of, but it isn't great for Obama because he did do those
things.
So when you're, am I to understand that when you are the president of the United States,you can do anything you want to do, get away with whatever you choose to do and there will
be no punishment?
(16:40):
I don't think I've heard that they've had immunity.
Immunity for what?
I mean, if you're committing crimes...
Yeah, he was the president.
So he's...
He can't be prosecuted.
I read that somewhere, like last week, that because Trump said Obama will not beprosecuted.
(17:04):
I mean, I hope it's wrong.
I think Obama should be prosecuted.
I think Hillary should be prosecuted.
You know, it's treason.
if you did a crime, you do the tying, period.
And they constantly love to throw around, nobody's above the law.
Well, we can clearly see that there are people that are above the law.
(17:26):
I mean, it has to be looked at.
even if one person goes down for it and, you know, I think that's enough.
they have, I mean, take Comey out, you know?
I mean, he's done enough shit.
And mean, someone has to...
about this whole situation.
(17:49):
Well, that's what, back to the Epstein thing, I saw an interview with Chuck Schumer andthe reporter said, you know, how come you weren't this um hell bent on, you know, having
these files released when Biden was in office?
And he's like, he's like, I was, you know, you're just lying.
I was, I wanted to get these released, you know, and going back and looking at it, it'snot true.
(18:12):
You know, it's just now that Trump is, Trump, you know, front and center.
Well, and I think too, if Trump was implicated in any of that, they had all thatinformation while Biden was in office, they would have hung him.
They would have loved nothing more than taking him.
(18:33):
Yes, so that's why the other part of me is like, he's not implicated because they wouldhave taken full advantage of that.
Do I mean, I believe that that he that he you know, he obviously he was at the parties,obviously he was whatever but there I do not believe and he and I think there was another
interview that said that he was never at the island he was invited, but he never went hedeclined it, you know, and
(18:59):
think with him too is that he doesn't drink alcohol.
he doesn't, alcohol makes you, uninhibited, you know.
So I think, you know, he is able, and I'm not saying that he's a saint because I know heisn't, but it gives you more thought.
You put more thought into something, you know, this is really not a good decision whenyou're sober.
(19:23):
Yeah.
Well, and honestly with Trump, I think he had his own thing going.
I mean, he, you know, what did he, what did he get Epstein for?
Quite honestly.
Right, exactly.
it just really makes you wonder how deep and dirty just every, every aspect of power and,you know, rich and all of that is.
(19:47):
exactly that goes back to the Russia gate I just truly do not believe that anyone's goingto be punished for it because the rich and powerful are all involved Even Comey
Even Comey, I don't think he'll be, face any jail time or any of that.
Well, do you think that Tulsi Gabbard's really going to let it go?
(20:09):
I mean, she's in the position now where she can push it.
And it's getting enough publicity that...
at least, exactly, at least it's staying on the forefront of everybody's mind and they'renot gonna let it just lie.
And I hope they keep it going until something happens.
Same with the Hillary, all the stuff that Hillary has done to this country, that regimebasically almost took this country down.
(20:41):
And I would love to see some people go down.
who do you think the ringleader is?
Obama and Hillary or maybe not maybe there's you know Rothschild or you know any of thoseyou know underworld people that commoners like me do not know about yeah so I think
(21:02):
there's you know people even above so gross that that are kind of pulling the strings
Which is just crazy, right?
I mean, it's just, I don't know.
like the underbelly of stuff that we don't want to know about.
I think what's crazy to me is that we are seven months in to his administration.
(21:23):
Seven months.
So we still have three years of people digging and what else is gonna be uncovered in thenext three years that is going to probably just shake the foundation of America, quite
honestly.
I mean, that's frightening.
I think it's good.
(21:45):
It is frightening, but I think it's necessary.
We needed this.
And not to bring religion into it, but I just do believe that God is really working in ourcountry and we need him to work in our country.
So for those that don't believe in God, I'm sorry, I hope I don't offend you, but I cannotapologize for God because he's working.
(22:07):
I agree with you.
What other things do you have that you've seen
Anything exciting?
the shooting last night in New York.
Have you heard about that at all?
Pretty crazy.
And the thing that I think is the most fascinating about this whole thing is, weren't, hewasn't, this is not for sure, but the speculation is that he was not going for Black Rock
(22:36):
or any of that.
He was going for the NFL because he says he has CTE from playing football.
Listen, that is a real thing.
Yeah, did you ever see the movie Concussion?
So I worked in the same hospitals with Dr.
Maroon that's with, now his name's gonna, freaking menopause me and I can't remember namesat all.
(23:07):
favorite football players of all time is Junior Seau and I just remember all the stuffthat he did and that's kind of when it started to come to the forefront.
I thought how sad because what an amazing human he was so kind and sweet and then just tohave that traumatic brain injury it changed him it changed his whole life and you know no
(23:28):
way out other than to commit suicide.
And wasn't he the one that committed suicide and then left the note saying like, pleasecheck my brain?
Yeah, that is, yeah.
So what happened with this story?
So this guy just, was he an ex-basketball player or football player?
He was a football player.
(23:49):
They haven't said whether he's college or NFL.
I don't think he played in the NFL, but maybe he played in Canada.
That full story of that hasn't come out yet, but he did say that football has caused himto have brain injury, and he left a note, and he wants his brain to be looked at.
um And I mean, he drove all the way from Las Vegas over several days to make it to thatbuilding.
(24:17):
Wow.
So it's pretty scary.
And he had anti-psychotics in his truck or car for mental illness.
So I don't know if anti-psychotic medicine helps with the brain for CTE.
(24:37):
But I believe it's real.
It's sad.
It's really sad to see somebody just.
who is otherwise a normal, amazing human being and then they get their head cracked acouple of times with tackles or whatever it might be and it changes them, changes their
whole personality.
(24:59):
Yeah, it's a horror.
brain is, I guess.
for sure.
crazy.
He shot up a New York City police officer who was, he was doing security detail, but hewas in uniform and he's dead.
He killed him and he was, I think 36 with two little boys and a baby on the way.
(25:20):
And then I think he killed four other people.
So it's a pretty sad day in New York, you know, especially New Yorkers because they stillprobably have PTSD from 9-11, you know.
So when stuff like that happens, we can't ramble.
They had pictures of Black Rock, these guys that were working still late at night therehad couches and desks and everything barricading themselves into their office.
(25:47):
So scary.
But I think on a lighter note, I feel like Trump was very productive this last few dayswith all these tariffs.
uh
it's funny, because I look at social media a lot to see what is really triggering theDemocrats and, you know, what's making them speak out.
And of course Epstein has been the one thing.
(26:08):
uh It'd be a shorter list to find out what isn't triggering them.
the one I was gonna say, they have not really complained about tariffs.
There hasn't really been any word about that.
Nobody's losing their retirement anymore.
Yes, yeah.
That's great.
We're getting somewhere now.
(26:28):
Colbert gets fired and Bill Maher says tariffs are working.
so now it's the whole Epstein thing.
Of course, they're skirting the Russiagate thing, because Obama can do no wrong and theirside can do no wrong.
did you see any of the stuff off the summit that they did for uh Gen X oh my gosh it wasso bizarre like they had people come out and introduce themselves and they were young she
(26:55):
was probably maybe 25 hi my name is so and so I go by she her they them that was theintroduction and then they had this guy that had a panda head on
And he's using like the F word every other word and I thought, my goodness, who are theytrying to reach?
(27:16):
Anyone who's gonna watch this is so cringy that they, it was bizarre.
Bizarre.
Just so out of touch to try to get in touch with Gen X.
my god.
Look Cheeto came to see you.
catastrophe.
They are just, I don't even know.
(27:36):
They're so out of touch and just so, it's such a personality conflict.
I don't even think it's they dislike what Trump's doing, they just hate him, period.
so out of touch they don't even know how to like bounce back.
They don't even know where to start.
(27:58):
But I'm telling you a chubby boy in a panda mask is not it.
that didn't reach you?
No, it was so like I feel like I'm so embarrassed for you There's a lot there is a lotgoing on lots to talk about I love the whole UK or EU EU deal that he just made I think
(28:23):
it's crazy that the the old Russian president is threatening basically threatening us withwar if we put any tariffs or or
anything else on Russia.
So there's a lot always a lot to talk about.
It's never a moment right now.
he is nonstop.
And I'll tell you, one of the things that I'm extremely happy about is that he went to thedoctor and figured out his issue with his swollen ankles.
(28:51):
Because of course, that was a big conspiracy on you know, what that was.
Yeah, exactly.
But I mean, the man never sits down.
I mean, he's constantly on the go and no.
Up and down in the air all the time and...
it just it just really makes me crazy that people are just trying to take him down in anyway shape or form.
(29:17):
I can't even appreciate and be happy for how well the country is because of their blindedhatred for him.
Sad.
It's really sad.
You've got to celebrate the wins of America because at the end of the day we're allAmericans and we can all have reasonable arguments.
(29:40):
have you ever been out to the White House website
it's whitehouse.gov.
And if you ever go out to the website, they have, listing of everything that he has done,every memo he's put out, every executive order he signed, anything that he's doing in the
news.
And, you know, I think if people looked at this more and just seeing the things that hehas truly done in the last seven months, you know,
(30:07):
People would have to shut up.
mean, because there's just so much that he's doing that isn't even being talked about.
It's just ridiculous.
So.
they couldn't bring themselves to do that because then they would have been wrong allalong or they would have to admit something or rather than celebrating the victories of
(30:29):
their country, their hatred is just too strong to even see past that, unfortunately.
yeah, I'm looking at one now that on July 24th, it was an executive order that he signedending vagrancy and restoring order.
So it says that he signed an executive order to restore order to American cities andremove vagrant individuals from our streets, redirecting federal resources towards
(30:54):
programs that tackle substance abuse and returning to the acute necessity of civilcommitment.
And
You mean he's ending the people like in San Francisco where they bring them drug bags fullof paraphernalia and drugs so that they don't use dirty needles?
Thank you, Trump.
Thank you.
I mean, in what world was that all right?
(31:18):
people just they're not.
It's common sense.
And but you know, again, our media doesn't put out positive stuff.
They never do.
They never put out
the media all the time.
Which is sad because they want to see their country succeed, I would hope.
I wish.
mean, it's showing and then the proof is in the pudding.
(31:42):
Their networks are going down because all people want is the truth.
They don't want you to spin it.
Just tell us what's going on.
That's why people watch the news.
You know, when they can watch things like The View if they want distorted opinions.
That is not the news.
The news should say what is in the news, not what is in my opinion about the news.
(32:02):
Well, and I guess, guess that, okay, so that, let's talk about free speech then.
I mean, should a non-government owned or non-public owned news media have to reportunbiased?
I mean, it's free speech, if it's publicly funded, If it's funded, yeah, yes.
(32:26):
But if it's private, hey, I guess you get to spin it how you want.
Like, meta, you know, Facebook does whatever the heck they want.
But there should be some boundaries if it's gonna hurt people or if it's, know,pornography or suicidal stuff, then yeah, they should be held accountable.
But it's a really slippery slope with the First Amendment, I guess, right?
(32:47):
Yeah.
uh
you know?
That, absolutely.
Trump suing everybody.
mean, getting the late show turned off and everything like that, it's, is it right orwrong?
think Trump got this late show turned off.
They were losing, they were bleeding money.
I mean, they had such a huge cast.
(33:09):
They, you know, it might have been a contributing factor, but I think that he just wasn'tfunny.
They weren't good.
Nobody was watching.
They were, they were operating in the red so far that they couldn't justify keeping themon.
So they can blame Trump if they want, but that's simply not true.
And you know what?
If you want to slander people and call them a felon and call them
(33:32):
you know, whatever they call them, then there's some accountability there too for somebodyelse.
Especially when you're talking to 25 people, all 25 people that watched that show.
I'm excited and I appreciate you doing this with me.
I'm sure we did.
And I can edit it to make it sound like we did anyway.
(33:54):
All right.
Have a wonderful day and I will talk to you later.
All right.
Bye.
So reasonable arguments is back after God, I don't know how long.
(00:04):
And it's going to look a little different because now I have a new co host, Danni Miller,who is no relation to Jamie, but ah might have a little different type of commentary
coming from her.
So we'll see how this goes.
But
So one of the things we're gonna start talking about right away is obviously the Epsteinstuff.
(00:26):
I mean this is everywhere.
Jamie and I binged the Epstein documentary and the Ghislaine documentary which was onlyone episode.
The Epstein one was four and I told you to watch the Ghislaine one last night so what areyour thoughts honestly?
Well, I think incredible.
(00:49):
Like she's definitely as evil or more evil than he was.
I mean, obviously he's the blame.
I get it.
But first we need to discuss how to pronounce her name because clearly even in thedocumentary, they couldn't figure out how to pronounce her name.
There are 85 different pronunciations.
Not that that's relevant, but evil.
(01:09):
Yeah, evil Maxwell.
That's what we should call her.
Very narcissistic.
Just not a...
not a warm vein in her body.
So here's the thought that I got is, you know, they talked a lot about her dad and, youknow, her dad was very much a man like Epstein and, you know, her mother was this
(01:31):
shrinking violet who, you know, wasn't seen out in public.
You know, her father made her go out as kind of almost like his little trophy thing, whichis very sick.
So like when they started talking about after her father died,
And she almost needed a man just like him in her life to complete that.
(01:55):
And who's to say that she didn't do the same thing for her dad.
True.
He also, when he died, he had embezzled so much money, he left her with zero dollars andshe was not used to living like that.
So she had to figure out how am I going to continue living the way I am used to living.
Exactly.
(02:15):
you know, it just it's really just crazy that she was the one who was going out andfinding the girls and, you know, bringing them in.
had a conversation with someone this weekend about, you know, victims because, they a lotof the in the Epstein documentary, showed.
um you know, the girls who were brought in, who were recruiting people.
(02:39):
And the argument came about was, is how do you truly define them as a victim if they'rethen out recruiting other girls?
Like at what point do they become, you know, not co-conspirators, but...
you know, at what point like, and kind of the argument that was used was, okay, you take a13 year old gang banger, who, you know, recruited into a uh gang, starts killing people.
(03:08):
Well, why isn't he a victim?
Because he was only 13 years old, he was coerced, he was groomed, he was brought in.
And it's the same thing with these girls.
These girls know exactly what was going to happen.
They were bringing girls in to have that happen.
So
were living the life.
were, you know, given all the fancy clothes and into a 13, 14, 15, know, whatever, 20 yearold girl, especially, you know, a couple of them were in fashion industry.
(03:37):
That was, that meant a lot to them.
So I don't, I don't, maybe, and maybe when you're young and that age, you don't reallythink about it.
But then when you mature and you grow older, you realize, hey,
really taken advantage of and I was I was abused.
Well, and then the argument came up with some of the girls were in their 20s that wererecruited girls.
(04:01):
So are they true victims?
hard time with that because I don't, when you're 20 you don't make the best decisions butyou can't then go back and say well I was only 21 and I made the, no, no, you made the
decision, you were wrong.
I don't know, I really struggle with that because I don't see them as a victim at all.
(04:24):
Especially uh the one, the girl that they were talking about on the documentary thatworked at Bloomingdale's and worked, you know, she wore the shoes to the.
to the trial because she was a victim for so long.
I thought, you know what?
They didn't find you till you were 21.
You're not a victim.
You could have said no.
(04:44):
Yeah, no, no, that's Annie Farmer.
I do think he's a victim.
She was 16.
The one that wore the loafers.
Yes, the loafers.
She worked at a fancy, I think she worked at Tiffany's or something.
and they found her there and then she moved to Bloomingdale's and they found her there andthen she thought, I'm never getting away so I'm just gonna do it, you know, whatever.
(05:07):
I thought that was really, really weird and I did not feel like she was a victim at all.
No, the one in so Virginia um Ratcliffe, think her name was or no Roberts Virginia.
Guffrey or Roberts.
um We.
Yeah, and you know, she's now dead.
(05:27):
I I did not know that.
Yeah, so she had an accident in March.
She had a car accident, I believe, and a school bus hit her and she came through that.
And then in August, are saying that she committed suicide or in April, they are saying shecommitted suicide and they found her on her farm.
(05:48):
So conspiracy theory person in me, I'm like, okay, here, it's all coming up again.
You know, they're talking about releasing it and April of 2025, she's now dead.
And she's really the only person who named somebody.
Yeah, I think it's really odd that they say in those documentaries that there are over 500victims.
(06:12):
Where are they?
they, why, are they just, are you telling me 500 people don't want to come out and havetheir 20 minutes of fame?
I think it's a little...
we...
Well, Jamie and I had this argument because he's like, know, why, why isn't anybody naminganybody?
And I said, well, at this point, know, Epstein's dead, there's no money, they're not goingto get anything from this, right?
(06:37):
So the only them coming forward is only putting their name out in the public.
They know how many, you know, rich and powerful people are involved in this.
Virginia is now dead.
She's the one person who named someone and she's now dead.
You know, why would you even put yourself
in that situation to...
Epstein's worth billions.
(06:58):
There's gotta be money.
when he died, he was worth, I think it was 550 million, not even that much.
I'll have to look that up.
But I think it was 550 million.
But he had so much stuff out, like real estate stuff and everything like that.
It was gone.
Everything was gone.
(07:18):
And he just, yeah, there wasn't much left.
And the girls that came forward are the ones that got the money.
But that's really it.
a big deal out of that too, about the girls getting, they're doing this just for themoney, to get the money, you know.
Well, if they were molested and they were basically prostituted, they should get money.
(07:42):
I think the same thing.
think that if they're willing to put themselves out there, show their face, tell theirstory, risk whatever could possibly happen, yeah, I think you deserve it.
I mean, they were probably scared.
People were dying left and right because of this.
And so they were probably scared too.
(08:04):
Exactly.
So, okay, so my next question is with Ghislaine, you know, should there's absolutely ifTrump pardons her, like I just like he honestly needs to watch the documentary.
He needs to go and watch the documentary and realize that she is the one who was bringingall of these girls to him.
(08:26):
Obviously they already know all of this.
Why do they need her?
They don't need her to tell any more story.
Well, here's, and this is where the other problem, I think, comes in.
So, you know, Trump is the one who, you know, shame on him for just opening his big mouthlike he does and promising to release these files.
He has, he does not have the say to release them.
(08:47):
So, Bondi is the one right now who is sitting on these files the same way Alexander Acostadid.
No one wanted to release these files, okay?
There's something in them, whoever they're protecting, whatever it may be.
We know Trump's names.
in itself.
Right.
We know Trump's names in the files.
I mean, that's been said.
then, you know, he goes on TMZ does a release where, you know, he suggests that his nameappears in the Epstein files because his enemies, Joe Biden, James Comey and Merrick
(09:18):
Garland put his name in there.
Well, OK, we know that's not true, but there's pictures.
they ran in the same social circles.
mean, she basically got Epstein into those social circles.
Right, and it doesn't mean that he had anything to do with a little girl.
(09:39):
That's not what being your name being in the file means.
So now, all this has come to light.
They're trying to, and are they trying to prolong it?
Are they trying to it to where, you know,
Ghislaine now releases all these names and you know she's this great person because nowshe released all the names we're gonna pardon her and you know let bygones be bygones I
(10:09):
don't think that should happen
I don't think that should happen either.
She should, they should say, they should say, we're going to retry you and in order tostay off death row, you better tell us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it.
enough on her at all.
I just think that...
Well, everybody kept saying, we have the files.
(10:31):
She said, Pam Bonnie, the files are sitting on my desk.
Cash Patel, we are going to make this right.
And then, and you know me, I am always a trumper.
I'm never gonna be against him in any way, shape or form, unless it comes out that he wasa diddler.
But I really don't think that he did anything to little girls.
A diddler.
(10:51):
That would be the only reason I would turn against him.
for him to get out there and say, we're still talking about this, you're still talkingabout this creepy guy, yes we are.
Because this affects over 500 little girls.
What if that was your little girl or your granddaughter?
Yes, we are talking about it because it needs, the people that did this and bought andtook those little girls in need to be punished.
(11:18):
Period.
Well, he brought it on himself because he campaigned about it.
I'm going to release the Epstein files.
OK, why?
Why is that?
Because honestly, do you think that had he not camped
going down, that's probably why they aren't doing it.
(11:38):
Every congressman, everybody in the House, everybody, everywhere is going down.
Well, think one of the things that they're, and they said this in both documentaries, isit's not so much about politicians as it is about large business owners and CEOs of large
businesses that are, well, because of these companies.
(12:05):
we'll think about if these companies go down.
Like we're talking major corporations, right?
And but but I but I said the same thing,
if you want, but I just think so be it.
So be it.
I agree.
I agree.
mean, it's out there now.
He promised that the files would be released.
It's up to Bondi now.
(12:25):
And, you know, I kind of did a rabbit hole search on her because I'm just, I don't knowhow I feel about her.
And, you know, just seeing...
theory around her ex-husband.
Well, I dug.
So she's been married twice, engaged, and now she's dating someone.
um And I dug, and both of them seem to be pretty squeaky clean.
(12:47):
Nothing really came out, whether or not, you know.
But mean, but Alexander Acosta didn't release anything either.
So there's something in there that nobody needs to see.
Yeah.
And that's what I said in my sub stack is that, if it is politicians, if that's what itcomes down to, then who do people trust?
(13:10):
At that point, who does anybody trust?
know it's scary.
We need you.
one of my friends put on one of the posts on Facebook about another show called um TheCandyman and the Clown, or The Clown and the Candyman, which was about John Wayne Gacy and
(13:31):
another serial killer um of young boys.
So this was all boys.
And um it was kind of like the same type of thing.
It was these two who murdered and raped and...
everything young boys and kind of trafficked young boys.
But then there was this other guy, this John David Norman, who basically had this thisthis ring of boy of young boy sex trafficking going on.
(13:59):
And he I mean, it was back in the day.
He recruiting them from this from just different areas in the same type of thing, excepthe ran off of index cards.
And every time he I think he was arrested twice.
And the first time that he was arrested, he went into jail.
He uh met another guy who worked with John Wayne Gacy, who was getting out of jail first.
(14:25):
And when he got out of jail first, he went and basically started up the business again,had it running, had it running good.
John Wayne or John um David Norman, you know, John David Norman got out of jail and gotright back into it.
So, and then he got arrested again.
You know, everything was seized.
All the index cards with all the kids' names on it were seized.
(14:48):
And somehow, miraculously, all of these cards disappear.
So it's like, you know, you have to think that if Ghislaine gets out of jail, what's goingto stop her from not going right back into it?
or somebody taking her out.
I don't think anybody takes her out.
I think she gets right back into it with one of the men that was involved in it anyway.
(15:13):
mean, it'd be, you know, I mean, she'd go to a different country and start it all upagain.
She has the connections.
Well, and she was the mastermind of all of it anyway.
She gave Epstein all the connections.
She's the one that helped him, you know, get his name out there and rise in the circles ofthe, you know, elites.
(15:34):
Yes, absolutely.
All right.
So let's talk Russia gate.
What are your thoughts on Russiagate?
It's so maddening because again, nothing's gonna happen.
(15:54):
mean, Trump said himself Obama won't be prosecuted if in fact, you know, we already, Imean, I think there's plenty of proof out there, right?
That uh it depends on who you talk to, I guess, but there seems to be plenty of proof outthere that he was behind the whole thing.
But Trump already said he'll never be prosecuted because he has immunity.
Kind of the whole thing where Trump couldn't be prosecuted because he has immunity.
(16:18):
And so I'm thinking, you know what, I think it's great for Trump because in fact he didn'tdo the things that he was accused of, but it isn't great for Obama because he did do those
things.
So when you're, am I to understand that when you are the president of the United States,you can do anything you want to do, get away with whatever you choose to do and there will
be no punishment?
(16:40):
I don't think I've heard that they've had immunity.
Immunity for what?
I mean, if you're committing crimes...
Yeah, he was the president.
So he's...
He can't be prosecuted.
I read that somewhere, like last week, that because Trump said Obama will not beprosecuted.
(17:04):
I mean, I hope it's wrong.
I think Obama should be prosecuted.
I think Hillary should be prosecuted.
You know, it's treason.
if you did a crime, you do the tying, period.
And they constantly love to throw around, nobody's above the law.
Well, we can clearly see that there are people that are above the law.
(17:26):
I mean, it has to be looked at.
even if one person goes down for it and, you know, I think that's enough.
they have, I mean, take Comey out, you know?
I mean, he's done enough shit.
And mean, someone has to...
about this whole situation.
(17:49):
Well, that's what, back to the Epstein thing, I saw an interview with Chuck Schumer andthe reporter said, you know, how come you weren't this um hell bent on, you know, having
these files released when Biden was in office?
And he's like, he's like, I was, you know, you're just lying.
I was, I wanted to get these released, you know, and going back and looking at it, it'snot true.
(18:12):
You know, it's just now that Trump is, Trump, you know, front and center.
Well, and I think too, if Trump was implicated in any of that, they had all thatinformation while Biden was in office, they would have hung him.
They would have loved nothing more than taking him.
(18:33):
Yes, so that's why the other part of me is like, he's not implicated because they wouldhave taken full advantage of that.
Do I mean, I believe that that he that he you know, he obviously he was at the parties,obviously he was whatever but there I do not believe and he and I think there was another
interview that said that he was never at the island he was invited, but he never went hedeclined it, you know, and
(18:59):
think with him too is that he doesn't drink alcohol.
he doesn't, alcohol makes you, uninhibited, you know.
So I think, you know, he is able, and I'm not saying that he's a saint because I know heisn't, but it gives you more thought.
You put more thought into something, you know, this is really not a good decision whenyou're sober.
(19:23):
Yeah.
Well, and honestly with Trump, I think he had his own thing going.
I mean, he, you know, what did he, what did he get Epstein for?
Quite honestly.
Right, exactly.
it just really makes you wonder how deep and dirty just every, every aspect of power and,you know, rich and all of that is.
(19:47):
exactly that goes back to the Russia gate I just truly do not believe that anyone's goingto be punished for it because the rich and powerful are all involved Even Comey
Even Comey, I don't think he'll be, face any jail time or any of that.
Well, do you think that Tulsi Gabbard's really going to let it go?
(20:09):
I mean, she's in the position now where she can push it.
And it's getting enough publicity that...
at least, exactly, at least it's staying on the forefront of everybody's mind and they'renot gonna let it just lie.
And I hope they keep it going until something happens.
Same with the Hillary, all the stuff that Hillary has done to this country, that regimebasically almost took this country down.
(20:41):
And I would love to see some people go down.
who do you think the ringleader is?
Obama and Hillary or maybe not maybe there's you know Rothschild or you know any of thoseyou know underworld people that commoners like me do not know about yeah so I think
(21:02):
there's you know people even above so gross that that are kind of pulling the strings
Which is just crazy, right?
I mean, it's just, I don't know.
like the underbelly of stuff that we don't want to know about.
I think what's crazy to me is that we are seven months in to his administration.
(21:23):
Seven months.
So we still have three years of people digging and what else is gonna be uncovered in thenext three years that is going to probably just shake the foundation of America, quite
honestly.
I mean, that's frightening.
I think it's good.
(21:45):
It is frightening, but I think it's necessary.
We needed this.
And not to bring religion into it, but I just do believe that God is really working in ourcountry and we need him to work in our country.
So for those that don't believe in God, I'm sorry, I hope I don't offend you, but I cannotapologize for God because he's working.
(22:07):
I agree with you.
What other things do you have that you've seen
Anything exciting?
the shooting last night in New York.
Have you heard about that at all?
Pretty crazy.
And the thing that I think is the most fascinating about this whole thing is, weren't, hewasn't, this is not for sure, but the speculation is that he was not going for Black Rock
(22:36):
or any of that.
He was going for the NFL because he says he has CTE from playing football.
Listen, that is a real thing.
Yeah, did you ever see the movie Concussion?
So I worked in the same hospitals with Dr.
Maroon that's with, now his name's gonna, freaking menopause me and I can't remember namesat all.
(23:07):
favorite football players of all time is Junior Seau and I just remember all the stuffthat he did and that's kind of when it started to come to the forefront.
I thought how sad because what an amazing human he was so kind and sweet and then just tohave that traumatic brain injury it changed him it changed his whole life and you know no
(23:28):
way out other than to commit suicide.
And wasn't he the one that committed suicide and then left the note saying like, pleasecheck my brain?
Yeah, that is, yeah.
So what happened with this story?
So this guy just, was he an ex-basketball player or football player?
He was a football player.
(23:49):
They haven't said whether he's college or NFL.
I don't think he played in the NFL, but maybe he played in Canada.
That full story of that hasn't come out yet, but he did say that football has caused himto have brain injury, and he left a note, and he wants his brain to be looked at.
um And I mean, he drove all the way from Las Vegas over several days to make it to thatbuilding.
(24:17):
Wow.
So it's pretty scary.
And he had anti-psychotics in his truck or car for mental illness.
So I don't know if anti-psychotic medicine helps with the brain for CTE.
(24:37):
But I believe it's real.
It's sad.
It's really sad to see somebody just.
who is otherwise a normal, amazing human being and then they get their head cracked acouple of times with tackles or whatever it might be and it changes them, changes their
whole personality.
(24:59):
Yeah, it's a horror.
brain is, I guess.
for sure.
crazy.
He shot up a New York City police officer who was, he was doing security detail, but hewas in uniform and he's dead.
He killed him and he was, I think 36 with two little boys and a baby on the way.
(25:20):
And then I think he killed four other people.
So it's a pretty sad day in New York, you know, especially New Yorkers because they stillprobably have PTSD from 9-11, you know.
So when stuff like that happens, we can't ramble.
They had pictures of Black Rock, these guys that were working still late at night therehad couches and desks and everything barricading themselves into their office.
(25:47):
So scary.
But I think on a lighter note, I feel like Trump was very productive this last few dayswith all these tariffs.
uh
it's funny, because I look at social media a lot to see what is really triggering theDemocrats and, you know, what's making them speak out.
And of course Epstein has been the one thing.
(26:08):
uh It'd be a shorter list to find out what isn't triggering them.
the one I was gonna say, they have not really complained about tariffs.
There hasn't really been any word about that.
Nobody's losing their retirement anymore.
Yes, yeah.
That's great.
We're getting somewhere now.
(26:28):
Colbert gets fired and Bill Maher says tariffs are working.
so now it's the whole Epstein thing.
Of course, they're skirting the Russiagate thing, because Obama can do no wrong and theirside can do no wrong.
did you see any of the stuff off the summit that they did for uh Gen X oh my gosh it wasso bizarre like they had people come out and introduce themselves and they were young she
(26:55):
was probably maybe 25 hi my name is so and so I go by she her they them that was theintroduction and then they had this guy that had a panda head on
And he's using like the F word every other word and I thought, my goodness, who are theytrying to reach?
(27:16):
Anyone who's gonna watch this is so cringy that they, it was bizarre.
Bizarre.
Just so out of touch to try to get in touch with Gen X.
my god.
Look Cheeto came to see you.
catastrophe.
They are just, I don't even know.
(27:36):
They're so out of touch and just so, it's such a personality conflict.
I don't even think it's they dislike what Trump's doing, they just hate him, period.
so out of touch they don't even know how to like bounce back.
They don't even know where to start.
(27:58):
But I'm telling you a chubby boy in a panda mask is not it.
that didn't reach you?
No, it was so like I feel like I'm so embarrassed for you There's a lot there is a lotgoing on lots to talk about I love the whole UK or EU EU deal that he just made I think
(28:23):
it's crazy that the the old Russian president is threatening basically threatening us withwar if we put any tariffs or or
anything else on Russia.
So there's a lot always a lot to talk about.
It's never a moment right now.
he is nonstop.
And I'll tell you, one of the things that I'm extremely happy about is that he went to thedoctor and figured out his issue with his swollen ankles.
(28:51):
Because of course, that was a big conspiracy on you know, what that was.
Yeah, exactly.
But I mean, the man never sits down.
I mean, he's constantly on the go and no.
Up and down in the air all the time and...
it just it just really makes me crazy that people are just trying to take him down in anyway shape or form.
(29:17):
I can't even appreciate and be happy for how well the country is because of their blindedhatred for him.
Sad.
It's really sad.
You've got to celebrate the wins of America because at the end of the day we're allAmericans and we can all have reasonable arguments.
(29:40):
have you ever been out to the White House website
it's whitehouse.gov.
And if you ever go out to the website, they have, listing of everything that he has done,every memo he's put out, every executive order he signed, anything that he's doing in the
news.
And, you know, I think if people looked at this more and just seeing the things that hehas truly done in the last seven months, you know,
(30:07):
People would have to shut up.
mean, because there's just so much that he's doing that isn't even being talked about.
It's just ridiculous.
So.
they couldn't bring themselves to do that because then they would have been wrong allalong or they would have to admit something or rather than celebrating the victories of
(30:29):
their country, their hatred is just too strong to even see past that, unfortunately.
yeah, I'm looking at one now that on July 24th, it was an executive order that he signedending vagrancy and restoring order.
So it says that he signed an executive order to restore order to American cities andremove vagrant individuals from our streets, redirecting federal resources towards
(30:54):
programs that tackle substance abuse and returning to the acute necessity of civilcommitment.
And
You mean he's ending the people like in San Francisco where they bring them drug bags fullof paraphernalia and drugs so that they don't use dirty needles?
Thank you, Trump.
Thank you.
I mean, in what world was that all right?
(31:18):
people just they're not.
It's common sense.
And but you know, again, our media doesn't put out positive stuff.
They never do.
They never put out
the media all the time.
Which is sad because they want to see their country succeed, I would hope.
I wish.
mean, it's showing and then the proof is in the pudding.
(31:42):
Their networks are going down because all people want is the truth.
They don't want you to spin it.
Just tell us what's going on.
That's why people watch the news.
You know, when they can watch things like The View if they want distorted opinions.
That is not the news.
The news should say what is in the news, not what is in my opinion about the news.
(32:02):
Well, and I guess, guess that, okay, so that, let's talk about free speech then.
I mean, should a non-government owned or non-public owned news media have to reportunbiased?
I mean, it's free speech, if it's publicly funded, If it's funded, yeah, yes.
(32:26):
But if it's private, hey, I guess you get to spin it how you want.
Like, meta, you know, Facebook does whatever the heck they want.
But there should be some boundaries if it's gonna hurt people or if it's, know,pornography or suicidal stuff, then yeah, they should be held accountable.
But it's a really slippery slope with the First Amendment, I guess, right?
(32:47):
Yeah.
uh
you know?
That, absolutely.
Trump suing everybody.
mean, getting the late show turned off and everything like that, it's, is it right orwrong?
think Trump got this late show turned off.
They were losing, they were bleeding money.
I mean, they had such a huge cast.
(33:09):
They, you know, it might have been a contributing factor, but I think that he just wasn'tfunny.
They weren't good.
Nobody was watching.
They were, they were operating in the red so far that they couldn't justify keeping themon.
So they can blame Trump if they want, but that's simply not true.
And you know what?
If you want to slander people and call them a felon and call them
(33:32):
you know, whatever they call them, then there's some accountability there too for somebodyelse.
Especially when you're talking to 25 people, all 25 people that watched that show.
I'm excited and I appreciate you doing this with me.
I'm sure we did.
And I can edit it to make it sound like we did anyway.
(33:54):
All right.
Have a wonderful day and I will talk to you later.
All right.
Bye.
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