October 22, 2025 • 33 mins
It seems like bakeries, cafes, and sweet shops are opening at a faster pace than restaurants right now (with the long lines to match). In this episode of Restaurant People, Hannah and Bryan unpack the appeal of sweets, hear from Emmy-nominated comedian and actor Kate Berlant about her favorite desserts in LA, and discuss why pastry chefs are leaving traditional restaurant settings.
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(00:00):
- I'll say this about dessert.
(00:00):
- [Hannah] Yeah.
- 'Cause I do love sugar, I love desserts.
Somebody once told me thatcrazy people eat candy.
And I think that's true.
- Crazy people eat candy, okay.
- I think if people,like adults eat candy.
- Oh yeah, yeah.- Yeah, no that's right.
That's correct, for sure.
- Are crazy.
Like hard candies, gummy candy.
Like when adults are like.
(00:21):
- [Hannah] Sour.
- "Candy!"
That's a sign of something.
- [Hannah] No, no.
Hi, I'm Hannah Albertine,Senior Editor at Infatuation,
and my firstborn childwill be named Tiramisu.
- And I'm Bryan Kim, editoriallead NYC for Infatuation.
My all time favorite dessertchain is Andy's Frozen Custard,
followed by Dairy Queen, andthis is "Restaurant People."
(00:45):
The show for people who eatat restaurants sometimes,
from Infatuation.
- Today on "Restaurant People,"
we're talking about sweetthings, like me and Bryan.
- That's right.
We're talking about grandfinales, life's sweetest moments,
the proverbial cherrieson top of a night out.
Historically, my leastfavorite part of a meal.
- Desserts!
We'll also be joined bycomedian, actor, podcast host,
writer, and our LA SweetsCorrespondent, Kate Berlant.
(01:09):
- All that and more
on today's episode of "Restaurant People."
- Bryan, I wanted you to try
one of my all time favorite desserts,
because I don't thinkwe've ever had it together.
- Oh really?
- [Hannah] Yeah, pretty sure.
- We've had many desserts together.
- I know, I don't thinkwe've had this one together.
- Interesting you say that,
(01:29):
because I actually brought you
one of my all time favorite desserts.
- Have we had it together?
- I want to say 50/50 chance.
- [Hannah] Okay.
- And I know for a factyou're going to love it.
Am I going to love what you brought me?
- It would be impossible not to like
the thing I brought you.
- Are you ready for the reveal?
- As ready as I'll ever be.
- Hannah, drum roll, please.
(01:51):
- [Hannah] Whoa.- [Bryan] Ho!
- Fudgie the whale.
Wow.
Thank you so much, Bryan.
- Oh, of course, andwhat did you bring me?
- Well, these, as youmight be able to tell.
- [Bryan] Chocolate hockey pucks.
- [Hannah] Are chocolate lava cakes.
- Oh, chocolate lava cakes.
(02:11):
- [Hannah] Yeah.
- [Bryan] Where did you grab
these chocolate lava cakes from?
Because I do actuallylove chocolate lava cake.
I don't know anybody who doesn't.
- Exactly, that's whatI was saying before.
It's impossible to dislike them.
- [Bryan] Yeah.
- These lava cakes wereprocured from Domino's.
When I was in college
and I lived with allmy friends senior year.
After parties, we wouldall come back to the house
and eat chocolate lava cakes from Domino's
(02:32):
and like catch up onwhat happened that night.
- I'm sorry, they're from Domino's.
I did not know Domino'shad chocolate lavas.
- Technically Domino's calls them
chocolate lava crunch cakes,
I assume, because there was a lawsuit
and they had to change the name.
And what do you have for me?
- I, well, first off, doyou recognize this fellow?
(02:53):
- [Hannah] I think I went tomiddle school with this guy,
yeah.
- Oh, well his name isFudgie, if you don't remember.
- I remember Fudgie.
- Fudgie is a whale.
- Fudgie, mon ami!
- And that's why this iscalled a Fudgie the Whale Cake.
Fudgie The Whale is asignature cake from Carvel,
an East coast ice cream chain
that just a lot of people grew up with.
(03:14):
Not me, but I've been living in New York
for like almost two decades now.
- You came to Carvel first as an adult?
- [Bryan] Yeah.
- Wow, shocking.
- Yeah, so we first crossed paths.
- You and Fudgie.
- Yeah, as two adults.
Fudgie is for everyone.
Fudgie is for every occasion,
Fudgie is impossible to dislike.
Fudgie is a whale witha smile on his face.
(03:35):
So Fudgie the whale was invented in 1977
for Father's Day, right?
- Aw!
- [Bryan] At Carvel.
- Okay.
- And I think they wereinitially thinking,
like a fish for dad,
'cause dads historicallyhave enjoyed fishing, right?
- But not whaling?
- But then the whale came up
and maybe Tom Carvel wasprobably just like, "Hell yeah.
(03:56):
A whale, that's it."
- That's it, that's all we know.
- And it was a fantastic choice.
It wouldn't hit the same if it was a fish.
Am I right?
Fudgie the salmon?
Maybe not.
Probably not, so yeah.
- I would eat Fudgie the salmon.
Speak for yourself.
- Would you like me to tellyou about all the elements
of the ice cream cake?
- Yeah.
- So there's a layerof chocolate ice cream,
there's a layer of vanillaice cream separated by,
I want to say they're calledCrunchies, Chocolate Crunchies.
(04:20):
They're kind of like cookie bits.
- No, yeah, I don't know whodeveloped chocolate crunchies,
but they're everywhere,and they're so good.
This is good.
- [Bryan] They're not especially crunchy.
- No, but you knowwhat's good is the fudge.
- On top there's fudge.
- [Hannah] Yeah.
- Which is delicious.
And then there is a, it'scalled whipped topping.
Probably 'cause it's not legally allowed
to be called whipped cream.
(04:40):
Anybody can make a delicious dessert
from quality ingredients.
Fudgie the whale is madefrom polysorbate 65,
polysorbate 80, monoand diglycerides, right?
- Oh, that's my favorite.
- And maybe that's why it burnsa little when it goes down.
- Do you think, I gaveyou the eyeball part
(05:00):
and I took the tail,do you prefer dark meat
Fudgie the whale?
Or do you prefer maybe breast?
- I'm definitely breast guywhen it comes to Fudgie,
how about you?
- I like the tail.
I'm a dark meat Fudgie the Whale girl.
Do you want to maybe eat some lava cake?
- I would absolutely loveto try some lava cake.
(05:20):
And I would love for you totell me about, I don't know,
like what makes this an appealing dessert?
Like how does this answerthe question of why dessert?
The lava cake.
- [Hannah] The secret is really inside.
Thank you.
You do need a whole lava cake to yourself.
And that is part of the appeal.
It is something that lookslike a turd/hockey puck
(05:41):
on the outside.
And then the inside ithas this ooey gooey burst.
It's an action food.
- Right.
- It's something that connotes sex.
- Oh yes.
I would say it's, oh, it'slike kind of like coy,
flirtatious.
- For sure.
- It's like, oh, you want to cut me open?
Want to see what's inside?
- Don't talk to me like that.
(06:01):
Yeah, it's like an eruption.
No, it's true.
And it's historical associatedwith Valentine's Day,
the cheesiness, the romance.
Maybe it's an aphrodisiac.
There's no science behind that.
- It's like, oh, you think this is it?
Want to take a peek inside?
- You think I'm justthis hard, crusted thing?
Well, why don't you cutme open and find out?
- I'm not so crusty onthe inside like that.
(06:21):
Is that the voice of a lava cake?
What's the voice of a lava cake?
- Yeah, that's the voice of the lava cake.
And Fudgie the whale is, "Mon ami."
- Ah, mon ami.
- [Hannah] Fudgie.
- Where did you saythis is form, Domino's?
- This lava cake is from Domino's.
The lava cake is really, in some ways,
a tragic American hero because it used to,
(06:44):
in the eighties and ninetieswhen it was originated
by either a person in France in like 1981,
this famous pastry chef who made
this really like laborious recipe.
Chocolate coulant is what he called it.
Which means runny in French, I think.
(07:04):
- Sure.
- Frozen ganache insideof a chocolate cake.
Takes a ton of time to make.
He invented this thingand everyone loved it.
At the same time in America,
Jean George is supposedlythe American inventor.
There is some debate about this.
- I've heard that, yeah.
- He, in the late eighties, it's said
that he accidentally inventedthe chocolate lava cake
(07:26):
by under baking chocolate cakes,
and it came out, and he was happy with it.
But then if you read alittle bit more about it,
there was apparently a bakingcompetition in the sixties
where the runner upmade what was ostensibly
a chocolate lava cake.
And it became so popular in the nineties,
(07:46):
in the early 2000's,that so many restaurants
had chocolate lava cake on their menus.
And now it's fallen from grace.
- Yes, let's actually, let's take a look
inside of this chocolate lava cake.
I would say the fillingis more like a pudding.
- Yeah, this one's not the most lava.
- Yeah.
- [Hannah] But you get the idea.
(08:07):
- I definitely get the idea,I think it's delicious.
- It tastes good.
- And like Fudgie, like it's so sweet
that it's burning my esophagus.
- [Hannah] Do you want to take a break?
- Absolutely.
I don't know if you'vejust spent a lot of time
in New York City lately.
Everybody in this town isobsessed with desserts.
It seems like there arelines down the block
outside of all these bakeries.
(08:27):
And then I feel likeyou go on social media
and you just see pictures of desserts.
- I think all across thecountry, people love a bakery.
They love a sweet shop.
They love a little treat.
- It's almost like peoplelove these desserts,
and sweet shops, and bakeries
more than they love restaurants nowadays.
- Yeah, whoa.
- At least on social media,I think that's kind of true.
(08:50):
- But what about in LA?
I think of LA as beingland of the smoothie.
- Yeah.
- Which is a stereotype.
Of course there are desserts in LA.
I don't know as much about LAdesserts as I would like to.
- Yeah, do they exist in LA?
Are people eating sugar in LA?
- Are they fiending forFudgie the way we are?
- LA does not have Fudgieand it is worse off.
(09:12):
- Anyone from Los Angeleswould look at those lava cakes
and turn around in disgust probably.
- Are we being fair to LA though?
Let's say?
- We're probably being fair.
- I think we need to talkto somebody who can tell us
what's going down inLA, what do you think?
- Yeah, let's do it.
- Got anybody in mind?
- We need a sweets correspondent.
- Yeah, a sweets correspondent.
- I have just the person.
- Oh!
(09:32):
Do you hear that?
- [Bryan] I think I do, what is that?
- It must be the ham phone.
- Oh my goodness, it is the ham phone.
Who do we have on the other end, Hanna?
- So excited about this guest.
Emmy nominated actress, comedian, writer,
our favorite LA dessertperson, Kate Berlant.
- Hello, hi.
- Hi Kate, thanks for comingon to "Restaurant People."
(09:53):
- Oh, thank you for having me, thrilled.
- It is truly an honor to talkto you from New York City.
We know you're in LA.
You're in LA, right?
- I'm in LA but you know,I used to live in New York.
I'm between the two so often.
- She's bicoastal.
- Big Infatuation head.
- Oh, great.
- And you love desserts, right?
- I really do.
(10:13):
- When did you start to consideryourself a dessert person?
- When?
Oh my God.
I think, well, one of thefirst things I used to cook,
although cook is a strong term,
but after school, I would meltchocolate and marshmallows
together in the microwave.
- In the microwave.
- As a young child.
- Yeah.
- I love dessert.
I mean, what is there evento, what are we talking about?
(10:35):
It's like, but I guesssome people really don't,
or they only like chocolate,
or they only want, I mean,I'll say this about dessert.
Because I do love sugar, I love desserts.
I think somebody once told me
that crazy people eat candy,and I think that's true.
- Crazy people eat candy, okay.
- I think if people, likeadults that eat candy.
- Yeah, no, that's right.
That's correct for sure.
(10:56):
- Are crazy.
Like hard candies, gummy candy.
Like when adults are like.
- [Hannah] Sour.
- "Candy!"
That's a sign of something.
- [Hannah] No, no.
- Absolutely, and I'm gladyou brought this up, Kate,
what is the craziest candy?
Like if you see somebody eating this candy
on the sidewalk, you'recrossing the street?
- Any kind of hard fruit candy.
(11:17):
Like I just don't, but evenStarburst to me are pushing it.
- Mm.
- I'm 82 next Thursday.
I don't know why that's what came to mind.
But I just think, yeah,candy, like an overland.
You know what candy that Iactually love are Riesens?
They're a chocolate candy.
They come in a wrapper,a little individual.
I think they're called Riesens,
(11:37):
but they're not, there's no raisin in it.
- What is it?
- These are good.
- I don't know what this is.
I have no idea, you have to explain.
- I have to find it.
My cousins used to eat them.
- What do they taste like?
Like what's the sensation about a Riesens?
- Like a chewy chocolate.
Like a Starburst if it were chocolate.
- Oh my gosh, I think I knowwhat you're talking about.
- It sounds British somehow.
- I think they're crassly American.
(11:59):
Found it.
Found it, folks.
- [Hannah] Tell us.
- [Bryan] Riesen, oh, yeah,yeah, they come in bags.
- Yeah, it says caramel,but it's chocolate.
Those are fab.
- Wow, that's good.
So not crossing the street for Riesens.
Crossing the street for any hard candy.
- I think that a fruit basedcandy is just bizarre to me.
(12:22):
I don't really understand.
Like, to me, I love chocolate.
I love, I mean, I loveall desserts, I'd say,
but candy?
- You will order a dessertat a restaurant for sure.
That's your move.
- I guess not every time, of course.
Sometimes I'm too full,I didn't leave room.
But generally, sure.
And definitely on anykind of a special occasion
(12:43):
or even just like, oh, you'rehaving a fab night out.
Get a dessert.
- Yeah, like what doesdessert bring to your meal?
- To your life?
- Like, just on a philosophical level.
Just like, why do we have dessert?
- Yeah, I think because life is so hard,
and I think also at the end of the meal,
that's an opportunity for coffee,
or Amaro has recently beentered my life in a deeper way.
(13:05):
- [Hannah] Yes, yeah.
- And I'm like, that's a way to live
at a beautiful restaurant.
You continue the experience.
- We were hoping to play alittle game with you, Kate,
if you're down, to try to understand
a little bit more about yourown dessert preferences.
But also maybe just likethe larger LA dessert scene.
The game is called this or that.
(13:25):
We invented it, actually.
- We invented it.
- You may see other dupes online.
It was us first.
- [Kate] Got it.
- We're going to give you two options.
You're going to choose one.
Feel free to expound on why.
Feel free to not, et cetera.
All right, your options, a brownie sundae.
(13:47):
- Stop right there.
That's what I want, but continue, yeah.
Is that, we hit your sweet spot.
- [Kate] Continue.
- Yeah, okay.
Brownie sundae or 11 jello shots.
- Brownie sundae.
- Why?
Just always, always?
- I have a real, just anostalgic, just the brownie sundae
(14:08):
to me is just really, when it's well done,
it just, it hits all points.
A jello shot, I'll say, that's fun to me
when they have that on a bar menu.
- [Hannah] Yeah.
- But I ain't paying for that.
- No, it's something you should be given.
- It's just, yeah, it seems,
but the brownie sundae is, yeah,
you've got the chocolate,I love an ice cream sundae.
(14:29):
To me, a classic ice cream sundae
is one of my favorite things.
- Can you think of anyplaces in LA, or not LA,
where you're getting the ice cream sundae?
- So I haven't, everyonegoes, "Oh, the Tower Bar.
Classic ice cream sundae."
Sure, they give you the little menu.
I had, and by the way, thismay have been six years ago,
and I'm remembering it,so it must have been good.
At Little Dom's here inLA they have very simple
(14:50):
little ice cream sundae in alittle silver dish, classic.
I just want, by the way, I'mfine with just hot fudge.
Where did I see a shocking?
I was in Ojai and I saw a shocking,
level nine shock factor,
really good looking ice creamsundae at Rory's Other Place.
- Okay.
- Next door to Rory's Place.
For those of you who are in Ojai culture,
(15:11):
I'm starting to entrench myself.
And I almost had, it was11:00 AM, I was like,
it's 11:00 AM I can't have anice cream sundae right now.
But I was floored by the thickness,
the density of the chocolate,and a luxardo cherry on top.
- First choice is brownie sundae.
- It sounds like the brownie sundae,
or we can just callthat sundaes in general,
it's going to be tough to beat.
(15:32):
I'll get a little more specific.
Hopefully you've had this,
I don't think I've actually had this.
A brownie sundae or Sqirl French toast.
This is french toast from Sqirl
- Not made of squirrel.
- This is not made from squirrels.
This is from Sqirl in LA.
- So if I'm in a place where I,
I typically want savory breakfast.
(15:53):
I'm not a big sweet,pancakes, after two bites,
I'm done, typically.
- [Hannah] Yes.
- But I have to say, if I'm in a place
where I'm wanting a dessertfor breakfast situation,
Sqirl in Los Angeles,
their french toast is truly miraculous.
It's unbelievable, I have to say.
It'll bring it to your knees.
- So are we going Sqirlfrench toast over Sunday?
(16:17):
- But a sundae, that's the category.
The category still wins.
I'm still going sundae.
- No, no, that's good, that's good.
- Okay, so brownie sundae,I think I've got it.
Brownie sundae, and this mightnot technically be considered
a dessert by a lot of people.
It is sweet.
And you have it at theend of the meal sometimes.
A brownie sundae or a lycheetini.
- Oh, you're going hard.
(16:39):
- [Bryan] I'm going hard.
- Sundae, sundae, sundae, sundae.
- Whoa.
- Yeah.
- I thought I had it there.
I know you're a fan, Kate.
I know you're a fan of a lycheetini.
- Kate Berlant heads will knowthat you love a lycheetini,
right?
- Well, it's a specific lychee martini
served at Jar Restauranthere in Los Angeles.
That's the only placewhere I order lycheetini.
- Okay, so we're stillsticking with Sundae.
(17:00):
- Yeah, you got this, Hannah.
- All right, okay.
Brownie sundae or, ooh,Quarter Sheets Desserts, any.
- Quarter Sheets.
- [Bryan] Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
- No question.
Sorry, Hannah Siskin, bestpastry chef in America.
(17:21):
In the world.
- You heard it here first.
- Do you have a favorite dessert there?
- Yeah, what do you like to get there?
- Oh, it's emotional.
I mean, I think the princesscake is really exceptional.
It's really shocking.
- Shocking.
- However, I'll say that Ihad, and I'm a big, I love pie.
I had the best piece ofpie I've ever had there.
(17:41):
And what she did too isthe ice cream on top was,
what's it called?
Is it, I'm going to say it wrong.
It's not noyaux, butit's like the peach pit.
Everyone's going to laugh at me.
It's like, tastes like analmond, but it's not an almond.
It's taken from the center of a peach pit,
and it tastes just like almond.
You know about this?
- You've been spendingso much time in Ojai.
I have absolutely no idea.
- [Kate] I guess that'sthe dessert genius, yeah.
(18:02):
So it's that ice cream on top.
- Whoa, cool.
- Crazy pie.
And also, I'll say this, Idon't care about sherbet,
like as an ice cream.
That's not something I'm excited about.
I went there, she served a sherbet.
It was emotional.
I was like, this is.
- Yeah, where do you goin your head when you,
is it like a familiarity, nostalgic thing?
(18:22):
Or is it you're going?
- For sherbet?
- No, no, when you had that dessert,
like when you get emotional,like where are we,
where are you going in your heart?
- It's just, I'm going home.
It's summer, stonefruit in the summertime.
- Yeah.
- So yeah, I've got farmers in my family,
just hearkening to the stone fruit.
- Okay, let's see if we cantop Quarter Sheets, Bryan.
(18:45):
- [Bryan] All right, all right,I'm going to try my best.
- Nothing can.
- [Bryan] I'm going to try my best.
- I mean, honestly.
- Okay, any dessert at Quarter Sheet
or any dessert at theNew York City restaurant,
Le Veau d'Or?
- [Kate] Oh, you are playing dirty.
This is a dirty game.
It's like you're tryingto, so here's the thing,
(19:06):
Quarter Sheets, it's my local spot.
I had many desserts there.
Le Veau d'Or, don't speak French,
I had my first meal therelast week and I was,
it's the most beautiful restaurant.
I mean, I just loved the experience.
It was top to bottom excellent.
The food was astonishing.
And then the dessert rolls around.
And I have to say, I had, what was it?
(19:26):
The chocolate grata anda peach tarte tatin.
- Oh, yeah.
- And the chocolate made me,
'cause it came in thiskind of shallow dish,
I was like, what is this?
Kind of looked, it's not showing off.
Just visually, you're like,here's some chocolate in a dish.
Like, I was like, it'ssouffle, what is this?
I took a bite.
I almost threw my spoon across the room.
(19:47):
It was, it was, I love achocolate that's really,
it's almost like salty, it'sdense, it's like savory.
It was like that, and my friend,
who's not a big sweettooth, actually same friend
who accused me of havinga big sweet tooth,
he was stunned by it.
- Yeah, it is a stunningrestaurant in almost every way.
- Everything is astonishing.
(20:09):
- It's really nice, feels really special.
Like Paris in the 1950s, I want to say.
- Well, and I have a huge announcement,
which is that again, beautifulmeal, we're having fun.
Who comes and sits downnext to me, not at my table,
but the adjoining table.
Fran Lebowitz.
So it was a huge New YorkCity huge moment for me.
- I would Have to stopeating probably, though.
(20:30):
- I was posing.
My friend was like, "You've changed."
From the first, like when she sat down,
there were a few minuteswhere I was locked in posing,
and I was considering, I waslike, I'm going to say something.
I, of course, didn't, butI was in my mind crafting.
- That's an elite New York City sighting.
Is there anybody you would put above that
in your New York City sightings here?
- That once on my birthday in New York,
(20:52):
at one of my favoriterestaurants in the world,
Café Sabarsky, which hasa huge dessert culture.
- Yep.
- Yoko Ono was at the next table.
- Wow.
- So I've got some big hitters.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- And oh, so wait, did you choose?
You deflected?
- [Kate] Very good, very good.
So I'm going to have togo with Quarter Sheets,
(21:13):
'cause again, I've justbeen so many times.
- [Hannah] Your spot.
- The consistency across the desserts.
My birthday cake, I had mymother's 80th birthday cake.
Quarter Sheets, unbelievable.
- That is so nice.
All right, Quarter Sheetsor chocolate chip cookies,
generally?
- I love chocolate chip cookies.
(21:35):
And a chocolate chip cookie,
I'll go chocolate chip cookie,
just because that's an eternal friend,
and that's something you can experience
in all different locations andacross all different genres.
- Absolutely.
- Okay, follow up to that,chocolate chip cookie
or accepting all cookieswhen browsing Zillow?
- I always accept, Ijust don't care anymore.
- You've got to accept, but why is that?
(21:56):
- Yeah I don't know, whathappens if you don't accept it?
- You don't have to accept.
But I, I think it's likean age category thing.
Once you're over a certainage, you just accept,
and the younger generation knows not to.
- That was a good game of this or that.
Thank you for playing, Kate.
Do you think you couldtell us about Los Angeles
as a dessert eating land?
(22:17):
We were sort of being snooty about,
they don't like dessert over there.
They don't even eat it.
Which obviously isn'ttrue, but it's fun to say.
- Yeah, it's a multi-partquestion actually.
So like, do people eat dessert in LA?
Do people eat sugar in LA?
What dessert do famous people eat in LA?
- Do they even eat dessert?
Do famous people eat dessert?
- I think people eat dessert.
I mean, what's the pastry like?
(22:38):
I mean, listen to me.
I don't know.
Is there a dessert scene?
How would you describe thedessert scene in New York?
- Are people, are theylining up at bakeries?
They lining up for matcha?
- Right, right, right.
I don't, so I guess, yes,
there's the whole, the cream top fixation
has really taken the city by storm.
- That's right, yeah.
- Is that as prevalent in New York?
I don't know.
- No, I don't think so.
Can you explain cream top?
- That's like, what do you mean?
(22:58):
- Yeah, I mean it's cream.
- I'm being vulnerable here,I don't know what it is.
- It's the foam stuff.
You know foam.
- I know what foam is.
- But it's not necessarily foam.
Like Maru here, they do do an exquisite,
and I will have it from time to time,
might even get it today,which is this whipped cream.
But it's really kindof just very delicious.
And they put on top of thecoffee or on top of the matcha
(23:19):
and it's good.
But it is a dessert adjacent item.
But waiting, I really can't do the lines.
I don't wait in lines kind of generally,
like waiting in linefor the amazing pastry.
I just, I can't get myself there.
- [Hannah] You won't do it.
- But a chocolate croissantis one of my favorite items
on earth.
- [Hannah] Yeah.
- And there was a place, RIP,in Echo Park called Convi
(23:43):
that had the best one I'veever had, and it's gone,
and I still don't understandhow we're supposed to move on.
- You've called yourself a psychic.
You've identify as apsychic, is that right?
- I mean, why?
- What are we going tobe eating in the future?
What are our desserts of the future?
- Sushi.
- Sushi?
- Sushi dessert.
(24:04):
- Yeah, sushi dessert.
- Sushi dessert.
- Sweet sushi dessert or fish?
- Sweet sushi.
- Sweet Sushi.
- Sweet sushi.
- That's probably right.
You think restaurants arebetter in New York or LA?
- I'm coming back to New York in a month.
I'm going to Le Veau d'Or,I'm going to take my mom
for her birthday.
- [Hannah] Yes.
- I'm going to go.
I kind of always want to go to Cervo's.
- [Hannah] Yeah, it's perfect.
- I love it down there.
I love Kiki's.
(24:24):
I love an all day restaurant.
- It sounds like you spend a lot of time
at Dime Square, Kate.
Is that accurate?
- Read me.
- Is that unfair?
- Read me down, sure.
- Okay.
- I mean, it's just kind ofwhere the hot gay people are.
- I know, it's true.
I don't know if I feel moreenlightened about LA Desserts,
but I feel more enlightened generally.
And that I want to thank you for.
- Kate, thank you so much for joining us
(24:45):
and telling me all about Quarter Sheets.
I honestly, I didn't know howgood the desserts were before.
- Really?
- [Bryan] Now I know, now I know.
- You have to go get everything.
You have to get everything though.
Don't just get one or two.
- I will absolutely go and get everything.
- Kate, where can we find you?
Where can people find you?
- Oh, let's see, KateBerlant.comfor different touring,
I have a podcast called Poog.
(25:07):
- Any social handles?
- Kate Berlant.
- @KateBerlant.
- KATE BERLANT.
That's where you can find me.
- Wishing you lots of sweet desserts.
- I love dessert.
- Want to know more aboutdesserts in your city?
Check out our reviews andguides on theinfatuation.com,
@infatuation on Instagram,
(25:28):
and @theinfatuation on TikTok.
Kate, obsessed with Quarter Sheets.
- Yes.
- Obsessed with Le Veau d'Or.
- Yep, where else?
Sqirl.
- Sqirl.
- She knows a ton of our restaurants.
She's out and about, oot and aboot.
- You know who she is.
- Do I know who she is?
(25:48):
- [Bryan] Do you know what she is?
- Do I know what she is?
Oh, don't say it.
Don't say it.
- Kate's a "Restaurant Person."
- Oh, I thought you weregoing to say Kate's a foodie.
- Oh no, I would never.
- I thought that's whatyou were going to say.
- So we learned about Kate's obsessions.
I want to know what NewYork City desserts are,
doesn't even have to be in New York City.
It could be Philly, itcould be across the country,
what are you into right now?
Who's making desserts you love?
(26:09):
- I have a bunch that I love.
In New York, there's a place called Lei.
It's a Chinese inspiredwine bar in Chinatown.
You've been there?
It's like on my favoritestreet in New York.
Doyer Street, the extra curvy street.
They have a dessert that is,
they call it an eighttreasures rice pudding.
And it has beans and it has jellies.
(26:31):
Did you eat that?
- I never had that, no.
- It is cold and texture forward.
- [Bryan] Yum.
- There's crunch, there's squish.
That, texture is a huge elementof desserts that I enjoy.
- Totally.
- Yeah, rice puddingalso is just something
I generally love.
There's a place in Philly called Mawn,
which I've maybe mentioned on the podcast.
(26:52):
It's a southeast AsianCambodian restaurant.
Super tough to get into.
The chef and his partner arewinning like all the awards.
And they have a seasonal rice pudding.
And the one that I had had lime zest
and like sweetened condensed milk.
Yeah, right, I'm definitely onrice pudding watch for sure.
(27:13):
In Philly, there's placecalled Meetinghouse,
which is like British pub adjacent.
- Yeah, you love that place.
- Have I mentioned this before?
- You talk about it all the time.
Maybe not on the pod.
- It's the best.
It's one of my favorite restaurants.
They have kind of like pubby food,
but the desserts, there's a cheesecake,
there's rice pudding, there's something
(27:33):
that they call carameltoast, which is essentially
a piece of white bread that'slike lacquered with caramel
and it tastes like funnel cake.
It tastes like childhood.
It's like sweet, sweet.
It's like a 17 year old'screation at 2:00 AM.
And I'm almost sure that Meetinghouse
does not have a dedicated pastry chef.
- Hmm, okay, yeah, yeah.
(27:53):
I feel like that's moreand more common, right?
- Yeah.
Pastry chefs, from whatI've heard, are dying.
Not the humans.
- I get what you mean.
But just to clarify, what Hannah means
is that pastry chefsare becoming less common
at restaurants.
They're not necessarily dying.
- No.
(28:14):
They're finding new ways to be.
- They're still alive.
- They're alive.
- They're just still working elsewhere.
- Yeah, and I was reallycurious about this.
So I wanted to reach out to pastry chefs
who are currently working at restaurants,
but also former pastry chefs
who have gone down their ownpath, whatever that looks like.
And I was like, why?
Why is this happening?
- The answer is typically A, economics.
(28:36):
- [Hannah] Yep.
- Right, restaurants are cutting back,
especially since the pandemic.
- It's definitely money is number one.
- [Bryan] Yeah.
- The second answer thatI've heard is freedom.
- Freedom, yeah.
- Maybe that's scheduling freedom,
but also just being able,
when you're a pastry chef at a restaurant,
you have to make dessert
that follows the structureof the restaurant.
(28:57):
Whether that's cuisine,
or if it's a tastingmenu style restaurant.
- Also, sometimes chefs willjust leave on their own.
Maybe they aren't making enough money
or their job's just not creative enough.
They want to do their own thing.
And what are a lot of them doing nowadays?
Opening bakeries, openingtheir own bakeries.
- Yeah, so did you talk to anyone
who opened their own bakery?
- Hani's is a newish bakery opened in 2024
(29:18):
in the East Village.
Their chocolate chip cookieis one of my favorite
in the city.
- It's chunky boy?
- It's actually pretty thin, but it's big.
- Oh, I like that.
- And we actually put it on our guide
to the best chocolate chipcookies in New York City.
- Yeah.
- Because it did so wellin our blind taste test.
I talked to the co-ownerand the head baker there.
- [Hannah] Yeah.
- Miro, asked him a few questions.
Do you want to hear?
(29:38):
- Yeah.
- To the question, "Whydo you think pastry chefs
are leaving restaurant settings?"
Miro said, "I believe thatrestaurants are the ones
moving away from hiring pastry chefs
rather than the chefs leaving.
As wages rise and foodcosts and rent increase,
restaurants continuallylook for ways to cut costs.
Unfortunately, the pastry department
(29:59):
is often the first to go, sincedesserts typically account
for a smaller percentage of arestaurant's nightly revenue,
making it seem expendable."
- That's totally right.
And that's like almost exactly
what someone I talked to said.
I reached out to NicoleRucker, who is the owner
of Fat and Flour, a bakery in LA.
(30:21):
And about 10 years ago,she was the pastry chef
of the Gjelina restaurant group in LA,
And then she opened her own bakery.
And I asked her, "Why doyou think pastry chefs
are ditching restaurant settings?"
And she wrote back in an email,
"I do not think they're choosing
to ditch restaurant settings.
I think that restaurant and dining culture
has moved away from placingimportance on pastry chefs
and dessert programs in general."
(30:42):
And then I said, "What's something
that you're excited to make now
that you never would'vemade in your previous job?"
And she wrote back, "Money."
Shout out to Nicole, I loved that answer.
- I actually asked Mirothis same question.
His answer was, "Everything.
In restaurants you wouldtypically make composed desserts
that consist of multiple components
put together at the lastminute before serving,
(31:03):
often presented on a plate or in a bowl.
In a bakery, however,
you need to create fullycomposed individual items
that are complex, yet easy todisplay, pack, and consume,
even on the go.
Additionally, with thecafe side of the business,
I get to create a lot of savory items
through our sandwich program
and get creative withcoffee and tea drinks,
which I'm very proud of."
So yeah, I guess you open abakery, you can then do savory.
(31:25):
- There's a little more freedom.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Yeah, there's freedom,
but also if you are trained pastry chef,
have spent many yearsin a restaurant setting
making mousse, makingbeautiful chocolate bon bons,
the transition to a bakerycould be really hard.
(31:46):
It's just a different genre.
The customer base wants something else.
- More and more chefs are leaving
these high-end restaurants,or like pastry chefs
are leaving these high-end restaurants,
going to bakeries, and theyare making fancier dessert,
their desserts are gettingfancier in these bakeries.
- I mean, I think that definitelythe desserts are getting
technically more interesting,
because someone who has a lot of training
(32:07):
is going to make a differentchocolate chip cookie
than throwing it together.
- Yeah, I would saythat's definitely the case
at New York City placeslike I was talking about,
like Hani's in the East Village.
Like Banh by Lauren, I thinkthat's on the lower East side.
Two Bridges, Chinatown area.
Elbow Bread is another one.
(32:27):
- What are pros and cons of this?
- So I think a con is you'regoing to go to a restaurant,
you're going to see more boring desserts.
- Yeah, boring desserts are like, yeah,
you made a chocolate cakebecause you know how to do that,
but it's not ganache, it'snot beautiful candy work.
Whatever, if that's your thing.
- It used to be you would,
the boring dessertswould be a panna cotta.
(32:48):
Nowadays, I would argue it is soft serve.
- You're so right!
Soft serve is everywhere,
because you just hookup that sweet machine
and you're off to the races.
- I am technically infavor of that, I think.
I'm in favor of doing fewer jobs myself.
- Yeah, let's do fewer jobs,all of us do fewer jobs.
- We're some to talk, we're doing podcasts
and also doing other jobs.
- We're all just doing the best we can.
(33:09):
Are you depressed by this turn of events?
You know, pastry chefs feelinglike they can't make it work
or not being compensatedand staying in restaurants?
- That's not amazing.
But also just from the pastry chefs,
I think we've heard from,
they don't seem super upset by,
(33:29):
when it comes to like theirchoice to open a bakery.
Like it seems like a good thing.
Unfortunately, all of the pastry chefs
who can't find jobs can't do that.
So that is the downside, right?
- Yeah, if you're a restaurant,
you're not going to have a pastry chef.
- Fudgie the whale.
- Will solve all your problems.
If this episode made you feel
(33:50):
like a freaking banana foster on fire,
make sure to follow, like, and subscribe
to "Restaurant People" on YouTube
and all of your preferredpodcast platforms
so you don't miss an episode.
- I'm Bryan.
- I'm Hannah.
- Big thanks to KateBerlant for joining us.
- And thank you for tuning in.
This was "Restaurant People,"a show from Infatuation.
- I'll say this about dessert.
(00:00):
- [Hannah] Yeah.
- 'Cause I do love sugar, I love desserts.
Somebody once told me thatcrazy people eat candy.
And I think that's true.
- Crazy people eat candy, okay.
- I think if people,like adults eat candy.
- Oh yeah, yeah.- Yeah, no that's right.
That's correct, for sure.
- Are crazy.
Like hard candies, gummy candy.
Like when adults are like.
(00:21):
- [Hannah] Sour.
- "Candy!"
That's a sign of something.
- [Hannah] No, no.
Hi, I'm Hannah Albertine,Senior Editor at Infatuation,
and my firstborn childwill be named Tiramisu.
- And I'm Bryan Kim, editoriallead NYC for Infatuation.
My all time favorite dessertchain is Andy's Frozen Custard,
followed by Dairy Queen, andthis is "Restaurant People."
(00:45):
The show for people who eatat restaurants sometimes,
from Infatuation.
- Today on "Restaurant People,"
we're talking about sweetthings, like me and Bryan.
- That's right.
We're talking about grandfinales, life's sweetest moments,
the proverbial cherrieson top of a night out.
Historically, my leastfavorite part of a meal.
- Desserts!
We'll also be joined bycomedian, actor, podcast host,
writer, and our LA SweetsCorrespondent, Kate Berlant.
(01:09):
- All that and more
on today's episode of "Restaurant People."
- Bryan, I wanted you to try
one of my all time favorite desserts,
because I don't thinkwe've ever had it together.
- Oh really?
- [Hannah] Yeah, pretty sure.
- We've had many desserts together.
- I know, I don't thinkwe've had this one together.
- Interesting you say that,
(01:29):
because I actually brought you
one of my all time favorite desserts.
- Have we had it together?
- I want to say 50/50 chance.
- [Hannah] Okay.
- And I know for a factyou're going to love it.
Am I going to love what you brought me?
- It would be impossible not to like
the thing I brought you.
- Are you ready for the reveal?
- As ready as I'll ever be.
- Hannah, drum roll, please.
(01:51):
- [Hannah] Whoa.- [Bryan] Ho!
- Fudgie the whale.
Wow.
Thank you so much, Bryan.
- Oh, of course, andwhat did you bring me?
- Well, these, as youmight be able to tell.
- [Bryan] Chocolate hockey pucks.
- [Hannah] Are chocolate lava cakes.
- Oh, chocolate lava cakes.
(02:11):
- [Hannah] Yeah.
- [Bryan] Where did you grab
these chocolate lava cakes from?
Because I do actuallylove chocolate lava cake.
I don't know anybody who doesn't.
- Exactly, that's whatI was saying before.
It's impossible to dislike them.
- [Bryan] Yeah.
- These lava cakes wereprocured from Domino's.
When I was in college
and I lived with allmy friends senior year.
After parties, we wouldall come back to the house
and eat chocolate lava cakes from Domino's
(02:32):
and like catch up onwhat happened that night.
- I'm sorry, they're from Domino's.
I did not know Domino'shad chocolate lavas.
- Technically Domino's calls them
chocolate lava crunch cakes,
I assume, because there was a lawsuit
and they had to change the name.
And what do you have for me?
- I, well, first off, doyou recognize this fellow?
(02:53):
- [Hannah] I think I went tomiddle school with this guy,
yeah.
- Oh, well his name isFudgie, if you don't remember.
- I remember Fudgie.
- Fudgie is a whale.
- Fudgie, mon ami!
- And that's why this iscalled a Fudgie the Whale Cake.
Fudgie The Whale is asignature cake from Carvel,
an East coast ice cream chain
that just a lot of people grew up with.
(03:14):
Not me, but I've been living in New York
for like almost two decades now.
- You came to Carvel first as an adult?
- [Bryan] Yeah.
- Wow, shocking.
- Yeah, so we first crossed paths.
- You and Fudgie.
- Yeah, as two adults.
Fudgie is for everyone.
Fudgie is for every occasion,
Fudgie is impossible to dislike.
Fudgie is a whale witha smile on his face.
(03:35):
So Fudgie the whale was invented in 1977
for Father's Day, right?
- Aw!
- [Bryan] At Carvel.
- Okay.
- And I think they wereinitially thinking,
like a fish for dad,
'cause dads historicallyhave enjoyed fishing, right?
- But not whaling?
- But then the whale came up
and maybe Tom Carvel wasprobably just like, "Hell yeah.
(03:56):
A whale, that's it."
- That's it, that's all we know.
- And it was a fantastic choice.
It wouldn't hit the same if it was a fish.
Am I right?
Fudgie the salmon?
Maybe not.
Probably not, so yeah.
- I would eat Fudgie the salmon.
Speak for yourself.
- Would you like me to tellyou about all the elements
of the ice cream cake?
- Yeah.
- So there's a layerof chocolate ice cream,
there's a layer of vanillaice cream separated by,
I want to say they're calledCrunchies, Chocolate Crunchies.
(04:20):
They're kind of like cookie bits.
- No, yeah, I don't know whodeveloped chocolate crunchies,
but they're everywhere,and they're so good.
This is good.
- [Bryan] They're not especially crunchy.
- No, but you knowwhat's good is the fudge.
- On top there's fudge.
- [Hannah] Yeah.
- Which is delicious.
And then there is a, it'scalled whipped topping.
Probably 'cause it's not legally allowed
to be called whipped cream.
(04:40):
Anybody can make a delicious dessert
from quality ingredients.
Fudgie the whale is madefrom polysorbate 65,
polysorbate 80, monoand diglycerides, right?
- Oh, that's my favorite.
- And maybe that's why it burnsa little when it goes down.
- Do you think, I gaveyou the eyeball part
(05:00):
and I took the tail,do you prefer dark meat
Fudgie the whale?
Or do you prefer maybe breast?
- I'm definitely breast guywhen it comes to Fudgie,
how about you?
- I like the tail.
I'm a dark meat Fudgie the Whale girl.
Do you want to maybe eat some lava cake?
- I would absolutely loveto try some lava cake.
(05:20):
And I would love for you totell me about, I don't know,
like what makes this an appealing dessert?
Like how does this answerthe question of why dessert?
The lava cake.
- [Hannah] The secret is really inside.
Thank you.
You do need a whole lava cake to yourself.
And that is part of the appeal.
It is something that lookslike a turd/hockey puck
(05:41):
on the outside.
And then the inside ithas this ooey gooey burst.
It's an action food.
- Right.
- It's something that connotes sex.
- Oh yes.
I would say it's, oh, it'slike kind of like coy,
flirtatious.
- For sure.
- It's like, oh, you want to cut me open?
Want to see what's inside?
- Don't talk to me like that.
(06:01):
Yeah, it's like an eruption.
No, it's true.
And it's historical associatedwith Valentine's Day,
the cheesiness, the romance.
Maybe it's an aphrodisiac.
There's no science behind that.
- It's like, oh, you think this is it?
Want to take a peek inside?
- You think I'm justthis hard, crusted thing?
Well, why don't you cutme open and find out?
- I'm not so crusty onthe inside like that.
(06:21):
Is that the voice of a lava cake?
What's the voice of a lava cake?
- Yeah, that's the voice of the lava cake.
And Fudgie the whale is, "Mon ami."
- Ah, mon ami.
- [Hannah] Fudgie.
- Where did you saythis is form, Domino's?
- This lava cake is from Domino's.
The lava cake is really, in some ways,
a tragic American hero because it used to,
(06:44):
in the eighties and ninetieswhen it was originated
by either a person in France in like 1981,
this famous pastry chef who made
this really like laborious recipe.
Chocolate coulant is what he called it.
Which means runny in French, I think.
(07:04):
- Sure.
- Frozen ganache insideof a chocolate cake.
Takes a ton of time to make.
He invented this thingand everyone loved it.
At the same time in America,
Jean George is supposedlythe American inventor.
There is some debate about this.
- I've heard that, yeah.
- He, in the late eighties, it's said
that he accidentally inventedthe chocolate lava cake
(07:26):
by under baking chocolate cakes,
and it came out, and he was happy with it.
But then if you read alittle bit more about it,
there was apparently a bakingcompetition in the sixties
where the runner upmade what was ostensibly
a chocolate lava cake.
And it became so popular in the nineties,
(07:46):
in the early 2000's,that so many restaurants
had chocolate lava cake on their menus.
And now it's fallen from grace.
- Yes, let's actually, let's take a look
inside of this chocolate lava cake.
I would say the fillingis more like a pudding.
- Yeah, this one's not the most lava.
- Yeah.
- [Hannah] But you get the idea.
(08:07):
- I definitely get the idea,I think it's delicious.
- It tastes good.
- And like Fudgie, like it's so sweet
that it's burning my esophagus.
- [Hannah] Do you want to take a break?
- Absolutely.
I don't know if you'vejust spent a lot of time
in New York City lately.
Everybody in this town isobsessed with desserts.
It seems like there arelines down the block
outside of all these bakeries.
(08:27):
And then I feel likeyou go on social media
and you just see pictures of desserts.
- I think all across thecountry, people love a bakery.
They love a sweet shop.
They love a little treat.
- It's almost like peoplelove these desserts,
and sweet shops, and bakeries
more than they love restaurants nowadays.
- Yeah, whoa.
- At least on social media,I think that's kind of true.
(08:50):
- But what about in LA?
I think of LA as beingland of the smoothie.
- Yeah.
- Which is a stereotype.
Of course there are desserts in LA.
I don't know as much about LAdesserts as I would like to.
- Yeah, do they exist in LA?
Are people eating sugar in LA?
- Are they fiending forFudgie the way we are?
- LA does not have Fudgieand it is worse off.
(09:12):
- Anyone from Los Angeleswould look at those lava cakes
and turn around in disgust probably.
- Are we being fair to LA though?
Let's say?
- We're probably being fair.
- I think we need to talkto somebody who can tell us
what's going down inLA, what do you think?
- Yeah, let's do it.
- Got anybody in mind?
- We need a sweets correspondent.
- Yeah, a sweets correspondent.
- I have just the person.
- Oh!
(09:32):
Do you hear that?
- [Bryan] I think I do, what is that?
- It must be the ham phone.
- Oh my goodness, it is the ham phone.
Who do we have on the other end, Hanna?
- So excited about this guest.
Emmy nominated actress, comedian, writer,
our favorite LA dessertperson, Kate Berlant.
- Hello, hi.
- Hi Kate, thanks for comingon to "Restaurant People."
(09:53):
- Oh, thank you for having me, thrilled.
- It is truly an honor to talkto you from New York City.
We know you're in LA.
You're in LA, right?
- I'm in LA but you know,I used to live in New York.
I'm between the two so often.
- She's bicoastal.
- Big Infatuation head.
- Oh, great.
- And you love desserts, right?
- I really do.
(10:13):
- When did you start to consideryourself a dessert person?
- When?
Oh my God.
I think, well, one of thefirst things I used to cook,
although cook is a strong term,
but after school, I would meltchocolate and marshmallows
together in the microwave.
- In the microwave.
- As a young child.
- Yeah.
- I love dessert.
I mean, what is there evento, what are we talking about?
(10:35):
It's like, but I guesssome people really don't,
or they only like chocolate,
or they only want, I mean,I'll say this about dessert.
Because I do love sugar, I love desserts.
I think somebody once told me
that crazy people eat candy,and I think that's true.
- Crazy people eat candy, okay.
- I think if people, likeadults that eat candy.
- Yeah, no, that's right.
That's correct for sure.
(10:56):
- Are crazy.
Like hard candies, gummy candy.
Like when adults are like.
- [Hannah] Sour.
- "Candy!"
That's a sign of something.
- [Hannah] No, no.
- Absolutely, and I'm gladyou brought this up, Kate,
what is the craziest candy?
Like if you see somebody eating this candy
on the sidewalk, you'recrossing the street?
- Any kind of hard fruit candy.
(11:17):
Like I just don't, but evenStarburst to me are pushing it.
- Mm.
- I'm 82 next Thursday.
I don't know why that's what came to mind.
But I just think, yeah,candy, like an overland.
You know what candy that Iactually love are Riesens?
They're a chocolate candy.
They come in a wrapper,a little individual.
I think they're called Riesens,
(11:37):
but they're not, there's no raisin in it.
- What is it?
- These are good.
- I don't know what this is.
I have no idea, you have to explain.
- I have to find it.
My cousins used to eat them.
- What do they taste like?
Like what's the sensation about a Riesens?
- Like a chewy chocolate.
Like a Starburst if it were chocolate.
- Oh my gosh, I think I knowwhat you're talking about.
- It sounds British somehow.
- I think they're crassly American.
(11:59):
Found it.
Found it, folks.
- [Hannah] Tell us.
- [Bryan] Riesen, oh, yeah,yeah, they come in bags.
- Yeah, it says caramel,but it's chocolate.
Those are fab.
- Wow, that's good.
So not crossing the street for Riesens.
Crossing the street for any hard candy.
- I think that a fruit basedcandy is just bizarre to me.
(12:22):
I don't really understand.
Like, to me, I love chocolate.
I love, I mean, I loveall desserts, I'd say,
but candy?
- You will order a dessertat a restaurant for sure.
That's your move.
- I guess not every time, of course.
Sometimes I'm too full,I didn't leave room.
But generally, sure.
And definitely on anykind of a special occasion
(12:43):
or even just like, oh, you'rehaving a fab night out.
Get a dessert.
- Yeah, like what doesdessert bring to your meal?
- To your life?
- Like, just on a philosophical level.
Just like, why do we have dessert?
- Yeah, I think because life is so hard,
and I think also at the end of the meal,
that's an opportunity for coffee,
or Amaro has recently beentered my life in a deeper way.
(13:05):
- [Hannah] Yes, yeah.
- And I'm like, that's a way to live
at a beautiful restaurant.
You continue the experience.
- We were hoping to play alittle game with you, Kate,
if you're down, to try to understand
a little bit more about yourown dessert preferences.
But also maybe just likethe larger LA dessert scene.
The game is called this or that.
(13:25):
We invented it, actually.
- We invented it.
- You may see other dupes online.
It was us first.
- [Kate] Got it.
- We're going to give you two options.
You're going to choose one.
Feel free to expound on why.
Feel free to not, et cetera.
All right, your options, a brownie sundae.
(13:47):
- Stop right there.
That's what I want, but continue, yeah.
Is that, we hit your sweet spot.
- [Kate] Continue.
- Yeah, okay.
Brownie sundae or 11 jello shots.
- Brownie sundae.
- Why?
Just always, always?
- I have a real, just anostalgic, just the brownie sundae
(14:08):
to me is just really, when it's well done,
it just, it hits all points.
A jello shot, I'll say, that's fun to me
when they have that on a bar menu.
- [Hannah] Yeah.
- But I ain't paying for that.
- No, it's something you should be given.
- It's just, yeah, it seems,
but the brownie sundae is, yeah,
you've got the chocolate,I love an ice cream sundae.
(14:29):
To me, a classic ice cream sundae
is one of my favorite things.
- Can you think of anyplaces in LA, or not LA,
where you're getting the ice cream sundae?
- So I haven't, everyonegoes, "Oh, the Tower Bar.
Classic ice cream sundae."
Sure, they give you the little menu.
I had, and by the way, thismay have been six years ago,
and I'm remembering it,so it must have been good.
At Little Dom's here inLA they have very simple
(14:50):
little ice cream sundae in alittle silver dish, classic.
I just want, by the way, I'mfine with just hot fudge.
Where did I see a shocking?
I was in Ojai and I saw a shocking,
level nine shock factor,
really good looking ice creamsundae at Rory's Other Place.
- Okay.
- Next door to Rory's Place.
For those of you who are in Ojai culture,
(15:11):
I'm starting to entrench myself.
And I almost had, it was11:00 AM, I was like,
it's 11:00 AM I can't have anice cream sundae right now.
But I was floored by the thickness,
the density of the chocolate,and a luxardo cherry on top.
- First choice is brownie sundae.
- It sounds like the brownie sundae,
or we can just callthat sundaes in general,
it's going to be tough to beat.
(15:32):
I'll get a little more specific.
Hopefully you've had this,
I don't think I've actually had this.
A brownie sundae or Sqirl French toast.
This is french toast from Sqirl
- Not made of squirrel.
- This is not made from squirrels.
This is from Sqirl in LA.
- So if I'm in a place where I,
I typically want savory breakfast.
(15:53):
I'm not a big sweet,pancakes, after two bites,
I'm done, typically.
- [Hannah] Yes.
- But I have to say, if I'm in a place
where I'm wanting a dessertfor breakfast situation,
Sqirl in Los Angeles,
their french toast is truly miraculous.
It's unbelievable, I have to say.
It'll bring it to your knees.
- So are we going Sqirlfrench toast over Sunday?
(16:17):
- But a sundae, that's the category.
The category still wins.
I'm still going sundae.
- No, no, that's good, that's good.
- Okay, so brownie sundae,I think I've got it.
Brownie sundae, and this mightnot technically be considered
a dessert by a lot of people.
It is sweet.
And you have it at theend of the meal sometimes.
A brownie sundae or a lycheetini.
- Oh, you're going hard.
(16:39):
- [Bryan] I'm going hard.
- Sundae, sundae, sundae, sundae.
- Whoa.
- Yeah.
- I thought I had it there.
I know you're a fan, Kate.
I know you're a fan of a lycheetini.
- Kate Berlant heads will knowthat you love a lycheetini,
right?
- Well, it's a specific lychee martini
served at Jar Restauranthere in Los Angeles.
That's the only placewhere I order lycheetini.
- Okay, so we're stillsticking with Sundae.
(17:00):
- Yeah, you got this, Hannah.
- All right, okay.
Brownie sundae or, ooh,Quarter Sheets Desserts, any.
- Quarter Sheets.
- [Bryan] Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
- No question.
Sorry, Hannah Siskin, bestpastry chef in America.
(17:21):
In the world.
- You heard it here first.
- Do you have a favorite dessert there?
- Yeah, what do you like to get there?
- Oh, it's emotional.
I mean, I think the princesscake is really exceptional.
It's really shocking.
- Shocking.
- However, I'll say that Ihad, and I'm a big, I love pie.
I had the best piece ofpie I've ever had there.
(17:41):
And what she did too isthe ice cream on top was,
what's it called?
Is it, I'm going to say it wrong.
It's not noyaux, butit's like the peach pit.
Everyone's going to laugh at me.
It's like, tastes like analmond, but it's not an almond.
It's taken from the center of a peach pit,
and it tastes just like almond.
You know about this?
- You've been spendingso much time in Ojai.
I have absolutely no idea.
- [Kate] I guess that'sthe dessert genius, yeah.
(18:02):
So it's that ice cream on top.
- Whoa, cool.
- Crazy pie.
And also, I'll say this, Idon't care about sherbet,
like as an ice cream.
That's not something I'm excited about.
I went there, she served a sherbet.
It was emotional.
I was like, this is.
- Yeah, where do you goin your head when you,
is it like a familiarity, nostalgic thing?
(18:22):
Or is it you're going?
- For sherbet?
- No, no, when you had that dessert,
like when you get emotional,like where are we,
where are you going in your heart?
- It's just, I'm going home.
It's summer, stonefruit in the summertime.
- Yeah.
- So yeah, I've got farmers in my family,
just hearkening to the stone fruit.
- Okay, let's see if we cantop Quarter Sheets, Bryan.
(18:45):
- [Bryan] All right, all right,I'm going to try my best.
- Nothing can.
- [Bryan] I'm going to try my best.
- I mean, honestly.
- Okay, any dessert at Quarter Sheet
or any dessert at theNew York City restaurant,
Le Veau d'Or?
- [Kate] Oh, you are playing dirty.
This is a dirty game.
It's like you're tryingto, so here's the thing,
(19:06):
Quarter Sheets, it's my local spot.
I had many desserts there.
Le Veau d'Or, don't speak French,
I had my first meal therelast week and I was,
it's the most beautiful restaurant.
I mean, I just loved the experience.
It was top to bottom excellent.
The food was astonishing.
And then the dessert rolls around.
And I have to say, I had, what was it?
(19:26):
The chocolate grata anda peach tarte tatin.
- Oh, yeah.
- And the chocolate made me,
'cause it came in thiskind of shallow dish,
I was like, what is this?
Kind of looked, it's not showing off.
Just visually, you're like,here's some chocolate in a dish.
Like, I was like, it'ssouffle, what is this?
I took a bite.
I almost threw my spoon across the room.
(19:47):
It was, it was, I love achocolate that's really,
it's almost like salty, it'sdense, it's like savory.
It was like that, and my friend,
who's not a big sweettooth, actually same friend
who accused me of havinga big sweet tooth,
he was stunned by it.
- Yeah, it is a stunningrestaurant in almost every way.
- Everything is astonishing.
(20:09):
- It's really nice, feels really special.
Like Paris in the 1950s, I want to say.
- Well, and I have a huge announcement,
which is that again, beautifulmeal, we're having fun.
Who comes and sits downnext to me, not at my table,
but the adjoining table.
Fran Lebowitz.
So it was a huge New YorkCity huge moment for me.
- I would Have to stopeating probably, though.
(20:30):
- I was posing.
My friend was like, "You've changed."
From the first, like when she sat down,
there were a few minuteswhere I was locked in posing,
and I was considering, I waslike, I'm going to say something.
I, of course, didn't, butI was in my mind crafting.
- That's an elite New York City sighting.
Is there anybody you would put above that
in your New York City sightings here?
- That once on my birthday in New York,
(20:52):
at one of my favoriterestaurants in the world,
Café Sabarsky, which hasa huge dessert culture.
- Yep.
- Yoko Ono was at the next table.
- Wow.
- So I've got some big hitters.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- And oh, so wait, did you choose?
You deflected?
- [Kate] Very good, very good.
So I'm going to have togo with Quarter Sheets,
(21:13):
'cause again, I've justbeen so many times.
- [Hannah] Your spot.
- The consistency across the desserts.
My birthday cake, I had mymother's 80th birthday cake.
Quarter Sheets, unbelievable.
- That is so nice.
All right, Quarter Sheetsor chocolate chip cookies,
generally?
- I love chocolate chip cookies.
(21:35):
And a chocolate chip cookie,
I'll go chocolate chip cookie,
just because that's an eternal friend,
and that's something you can experience
in all different locations andacross all different genres.
- Absolutely.
- Okay, follow up to that,chocolate chip cookie
or accepting all cookieswhen browsing Zillow?
- I always accept, Ijust don't care anymore.
- You've got to accept, but why is that?
(21:56):
- Yeah I don't know, whathappens if you don't accept it?
- You don't have to accept.
But I, I think it's likean age category thing.
Once you're over a certainage, you just accept,
and the younger generation knows not to.
- That was a good game of this or that.
Thank you for playing, Kate.
Do you think you couldtell us about Los Angeles
as a dessert eating land?
(22:17):
We were sort of being snooty about,
they don't like dessert over there.
They don't even eat it.
Which obviously isn'ttrue, but it's fun to say.
- Yeah, it's a multi-partquestion actually.
So like, do people eat dessert in LA?
Do people eat sugar in LA?
What dessert do famous people eat in LA?
- Do they even eat dessert?
Do famous people eat dessert?
- I think people eat dessert.
I mean, what's the pastry like?
(22:38):
I mean, listen to me.
I don't know.
Is there a dessert scene?
How would you describe thedessert scene in New York?
- Are people, are theylining up at bakeries?
They lining up for matcha?
- Right, right, right.
I don't, so I guess, yes,
there's the whole, the cream top fixation
has really taken the city by storm.
- That's right, yeah.
- Is that as prevalent in New York?
I don't know.
- No, I don't think so.
Can you explain cream top?
- That's like, what do you mean?
(22:58):
- Yeah, I mean it's cream.
- I'm being vulnerable here,I don't know what it is.
- It's the foam stuff.
You know foam.
- I know what foam is.
- But it's not necessarily foam.
Like Maru here, they do do an exquisite,
and I will have it from time to time,
might even get it today,which is this whipped cream.
But it's really kindof just very delicious.
And they put on top of thecoffee or on top of the matcha
(23:19):
and it's good.
But it is a dessert adjacent item.
But waiting, I really can't do the lines.
I don't wait in lines kind of generally,
like waiting in linefor the amazing pastry.
I just, I can't get myself there.
- [Hannah] You won't do it.
- But a chocolate croissantis one of my favorite items
on earth.
- [Hannah] Yeah.
- And there was a place, RIP,in Echo Park called Convi
(23:43):
that had the best one I'veever had, and it's gone,
and I still don't understandhow we're supposed to move on.
- You've called yourself a psychic.
You've identify as apsychic, is that right?
- I mean, why?
- What are we going tobe eating in the future?
What are our desserts of the future?
- Sushi.
- Sushi?
- Sushi dessert.
(24:04):
- Yeah, sushi dessert.
- Sushi dessert.
- Sweet sushi dessert or fish?
- Sweet sushi.
- Sweet Sushi.
- Sweet sushi.
- That's probably right.
You think restaurants arebetter in New York or LA?
- I'm coming back to New York in a month.
I'm going to Le Veau d'Or,I'm going to take my mom
for her birthday.
- [Hannah] Yes.
- I'm going to go.
I kind of always want to go to Cervo's.
- [Hannah] Yeah, it's perfect.
- I love it down there.
I love Kiki's.
(24:24):
I love an all day restaurant.
- It sounds like you spend a lot of time
at Dime Square, Kate.
Is that accurate?
- Read me.
- Is that unfair?
- Read me down, sure.
- Okay.
- I mean, it's just kind ofwhere the hot gay people are.
- I know, it's true.
I don't know if I feel moreenlightened about LA Desserts,
but I feel more enlightened generally.
And that I want to thank you for.
- Kate, thank you so much for joining us
(24:45):
and telling me all about Quarter Sheets.
I honestly, I didn't know howgood the desserts were before.
- Really?
- [Bryan] Now I know, now I know.
- You have to go get everything.
You have to get everything though.
Don't just get one or two.
- I will absolutely go and get everything.
- Kate, where can we find you?
Where can people find you?
- Oh, let's see, KateBerlant.comfor different touring,
I have a podcast called Poog.
(25:07):
- Any social handles?
- Kate Berlant.
- @KateBerlant.
- KATE BERLANT.
That's where you can find me.
- Wishing you lots of sweet desserts.
- I love dessert.
- Want to know more aboutdesserts in your city?
Check out our reviews andguides on theinfatuation.com,
@infatuation on Instagram,
(25:28):
and @theinfatuation on TikTok.
Kate, obsessed with Quarter Sheets.
- Yes.
- Obsessed with Le Veau d'Or.
- Yep, where else?
Sqirl.
- Sqirl.
- She knows a ton of our restaurants.
She's out and about, oot and aboot.
- You know who she is.
- Do I know who she is?
(25:48):
- [Bryan] Do you know what she is?
- Do I know what she is?
Oh, don't say it.
Don't say it.
- Kate's a "Restaurant Person."
- Oh, I thought you weregoing to say Kate's a foodie.
- Oh no, I would never.
- I thought that's whatyou were going to say.
- So we learned about Kate's obsessions.
I want to know what NewYork City desserts are,
doesn't even have to be in New York City.
It could be Philly, itcould be across the country,
what are you into right now?
Who's making desserts you love?
(26:09):
- I have a bunch that I love.
In New York, there's a place called Lei.
It's a Chinese inspiredwine bar in Chinatown.
You've been there?
It's like on my favoritestreet in New York.
Doyer Street, the extra curvy street.
They have a dessert that is,
they call it an eighttreasures rice pudding.
And it has beans and it has jellies.
(26:31):
Did you eat that?
- I never had that, no.
- It is cold and texture forward.
- [Bryan] Yum.
- There's crunch, there's squish.
That, texture is a huge elementof desserts that I enjoy.
- Totally.
- Yeah, rice puddingalso is just something
I generally love.
There's a place in Philly called Mawn,
which I've maybe mentioned on the podcast.
(26:52):
It's a southeast AsianCambodian restaurant.
Super tough to get into.
The chef and his partner arewinning like all the awards.
And they have a seasonal rice pudding.
And the one that I had had lime zest
and like sweetened condensed milk.
Yeah, right, I'm definitely onrice pudding watch for sure.
(27:13):
In Philly, there's placecalled Meetinghouse,
which is like British pub adjacent.
- Yeah, you love that place.
- Have I mentioned this before?
- You talk about it all the time.
Maybe not on the pod.
- It's the best.
It's one of my favorite restaurants.
They have kind of like pubby food,
but the desserts, there's a cheesecake,
there's rice pudding, there's something
(27:33):
that they call carameltoast, which is essentially
a piece of white bread that'slike lacquered with caramel
and it tastes like funnel cake.
It tastes like childhood.
It's like sweet, sweet.
It's like a 17 year old'screation at 2:00 AM.
And I'm almost sure that Meetinghouse
does not have a dedicated pastry chef.
- Hmm, okay, yeah, yeah.
(27:53):
I feel like that's moreand more common, right?
- Yeah.
Pastry chefs, from whatI've heard, are dying.
Not the humans.
- I get what you mean.
But just to clarify, what Hannah means
is that pastry chefsare becoming less common
at restaurants.
They're not necessarily dying.
- No.
(28:14):
They're finding new ways to be.
- They're still alive.
- They're alive.
- They're just still working elsewhere.
- Yeah, and I was reallycurious about this.
So I wanted to reach out to pastry chefs
who are currently working at restaurants,
but also former pastry chefs
who have gone down their ownpath, whatever that looks like.
And I was like, why?
Why is this happening?
- The answer is typically A, economics.
(28:36):
- [Hannah] Yep.
- Right, restaurants are cutting back,
especially since the pandemic.
- It's definitely money is number one.
- [Bryan] Yeah.
- The second answer thatI've heard is freedom.
- Freedom, yeah.
- Maybe that's scheduling freedom,
but also just being able,
when you're a pastry chef at a restaurant,
you have to make dessert
that follows the structureof the restaurant.
(28:57):
Whether that's cuisine,
or if it's a tastingmenu style restaurant.
- Also, sometimes chefs willjust leave on their own.
Maybe they aren't making enough money
or their job's just not creative enough.
They want to do their own thing.
And what are a lot of them doing nowadays?
Opening bakeries, openingtheir own bakeries.
- Yeah, so did you talk to anyone
who opened their own bakery?
- Hani's is a newish bakery opened in 2024
(29:18):
in the East Village.
Their chocolate chip cookieis one of my favorite
in the city.
- It's chunky boy?
- It's actually pretty thin, but it's big.
- Oh, I like that.
- And we actually put it on our guide
to the best chocolate chipcookies in New York City.
- Yeah.
- Because it did so wellin our blind taste test.
I talked to the co-ownerand the head baker there.
- [Hannah] Yeah.
- Miro, asked him a few questions.
Do you want to hear?
(29:38):
- Yeah.
- To the question, "Whydo you think pastry chefs
are leaving restaurant settings?"
Miro said, "I believe thatrestaurants are the ones
moving away from hiring pastry chefs
rather than the chefs leaving.
As wages rise and foodcosts and rent increase,
restaurants continuallylook for ways to cut costs.
Unfortunately, the pastry department
(29:59):
is often the first to go, sincedesserts typically account
for a smaller percentage of arestaurant's nightly revenue,
making it seem expendable."
- That's totally right.
And that's like almost exactly
what someone I talked to said.
I reached out to NicoleRucker, who is the owner
of Fat and Flour, a bakery in LA.
(30:21):
And about 10 years ago,she was the pastry chef
of the Gjelina restaurant group in LA,
And then she opened her own bakery.
And I asked her, "Why doyou think pastry chefs
are ditching restaurant settings?"
And she wrote back in an email,
"I do not think they're choosing
to ditch restaurant settings.
I think that restaurant and dining culture
has moved away from placingimportance on pastry chefs
and dessert programs in general."
(30:42):
And then I said, "What's something
that you're excited to make now
that you never would'vemade in your previous job?"
And she wrote back, "Money."
Shout out to Nicole, I loved that answer.
- I actually asked Mirothis same question.
His answer was, "Everything.
In restaurants you wouldtypically make composed desserts
that consist of multiple components
put together at the lastminute before serving,
(31:03):
often presented on a plate or in a bowl.
In a bakery, however,
you need to create fullycomposed individual items
that are complex, yet easy todisplay, pack, and consume,
even on the go.
Additionally, with thecafe side of the business,
I get to create a lot of savory items
through our sandwich program
and get creative withcoffee and tea drinks,
which I'm very proud of."
So yeah, I guess you open abakery, you can then do savory.
(31:25):
- There's a little more freedom.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Yeah, there's freedom,
but also if you are trained pastry chef,
have spent many yearsin a restaurant setting
making mousse, makingbeautiful chocolate bon bons,
the transition to a bakerycould be really hard.
(31:46):
It's just a different genre.
The customer base wants something else.
- More and more chefs are leaving
these high-end restaurants,or like pastry chefs
are leaving these high-end restaurants,
going to bakeries, and theyare making fancier dessert,
their desserts are gettingfancier in these bakeries.
- I mean, I think that definitelythe desserts are getting
technically more interesting,
because someone who has a lot of training
(32:07):
is going to make a differentchocolate chip cookie
than throwing it together.
- Yeah, I would saythat's definitely the case
at New York City placeslike I was talking about,
like Hani's in the East Village.
Like Banh by Lauren, I thinkthat's on the lower East side.
Two Bridges, Chinatown area.
Elbow Bread is another one.
(32:27):
- What are pros and cons of this?
- So I think a con is you'regoing to go to a restaurant,
you're going to see more boring desserts.
- Yeah, boring desserts are like, yeah,
you made a chocolate cakebecause you know how to do that,
but it's not ganache, it'snot beautiful candy work.
Whatever, if that's your thing.
- It used to be you would,
the boring dessertswould be a panna cotta.
(32:48):
Nowadays, I would argue it is soft serve.
- You're so right!
Soft serve is everywhere,
because you just hookup that sweet machine
and you're off to the races.
- I am technically infavor of that, I think.
I'm in favor of doing fewer jobs myself.
- Yeah, let's do fewer jobs,all of us do fewer jobs.
- We're some to talk, we're doing podcasts
and also doing other jobs.
- We're all just doing the best we can.
(33:09):
Are you depressed by this turn of events?
You know, pastry chefs feelinglike they can't make it work
or not being compensatedand staying in restaurants?
- That's not amazing.
But also just from the pastry chefs,
I think we've heard from,
they don't seem super upset by,
(33:29):
when it comes to like theirchoice to open a bakery.
Like it seems like a good thing.
Unfortunately, all of the pastry chefs
who can't find jobs can't do that.
So that is the downside, right?
- Yeah, if you're a restaurant,
you're not going to have a pastry chef.
- Fudgie the whale.
- Will solve all your problems.
If this episode made you feel
(33:50):
like a freaking banana foster on fire,
make sure to follow, like, and subscribe
to "Restaurant People" on YouTube
and all of your preferredpodcast platforms
so you don't miss an episode.
- I'm Bryan.
- I'm Hannah.
- Big thanks to KateBerlant for joining us.
- And thank you for tuning in.
This was "Restaurant People,"a show from Infatuation.
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