Neuroscience of Suicide: Coping in Community Part 2

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker: Greetings beautiful people. (00:09):
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Speaker: You're listening to the Rewired Woman podcast, where you can (00:12):
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Speaker: eavesdrop on our girly chat and learn the science behind our (00:16):
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Speaker: random questions and interests. (00:20):
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Speaker: Join our conversations and follow us on Apple, Spotify, and (00:23):
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Speaker: our iHeart radio or wherever you get your podcast. (00:28):
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Speaker: I'm your host, Matt, and I'm (00:31):
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Speaker: here with my super intelligent, (00:33):
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Speaker: philosophical princess. (00:36):
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Speaker: Very queen cat. (00:38):
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Speaker: Oh, hi. (00:39):
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Speaker: What are you drinking? (00:44):
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Speaker: Still fabulous juice. (00:45):
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Speaker: What are you drinking? (00:48):
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Speaker: Oh, the mug is very hot. (00:49):
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Speaker: I just made a pumpkin spice chai (00:50):
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Speaker: latte with unsweetened vanilla, (00:53):
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Speaker: soy milk and a dash of cinnamon (00:56):
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Speaker: on top. (00:58):
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Speaker: It smells very good. (01:00):
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Speaker: Do you remember your dream from last night? (01:01):
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Speaker: Do you want to share with me? (01:03):
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Speaker: I do remember bits and pieces. (01:04):
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Speaker: So what I remember is we were at, like, a vacation or some of (01:07):
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Speaker: one of Greg's family members houses And the kids, meaning his (01:13):
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Speaker: nieces and nephews, All, brought, picnic food with them, (01:19):
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Speaker: like a bunch of sandwiches and a bunch of decorations. (01:23):
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Speaker: we went into the woods and there was all of these, large foresty (01:26):
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Speaker: teepee things that we then decorated and had a themed party (01:32):
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Speaker: and I was helping them with it. (01:37):
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Speaker: we were surprising the adults with it. (01:39):
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Speaker: the only thing I really remember (01:41):
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Speaker: is that Paisley was like, after (01:43):
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Speaker: we had gotten everything set up, (01:45):
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Speaker: Paisley was demanding that I get (01:46):
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Speaker: her one of the sandwiches with (01:49):
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Speaker: whipped cream on them, and she (01:50):
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Speaker: loved whipped cream on her (01:52):
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Speaker: sandwich. (01:53):
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Speaker: oh my God. (01:53):
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Speaker: It probably had something to do (01:54):
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Speaker: with the renfaire I went to like (01:56):
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Speaker: a month ago because it was (01:57):
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Speaker: pirate themed, like pirates in (01:58):
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Speaker: the forest. (02:00):
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Speaker: Anyways, yeah. (02:01):
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Speaker: That's adorable, I love that. (02:02):
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Speaker: I know I definitely had very intense dreams last night, but I (02:05):
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Speaker: do not remember them. (02:10):
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Speaker: That's something I'm going to keep working on so that I have (02:11):
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Speaker: an actual answer. (02:13):
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Speaker: I need to keep working on it too, because I think I had other (02:14):
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Speaker: ones and I actually was gifted this T for astral projection. (02:17):
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Speaker: so I should I should try it. (02:22):
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Speaker: Oh, yeah. (02:24):
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Speaker: You'll keep us updated on how that goes. (02:26):
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Speaker: Mhm. (02:28):
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Speaker: what are we talking about today. (02:29):
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Speaker: last week we talked a lot about (02:31):
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Speaker: some of the, structural patterns (02:34):
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Speaker: and chemical patterns in, (02:38):
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Speaker: suicidal behaviors. (02:41):
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Speaker: now I guess we're talking about. (02:43):
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Speaker: Who is most affected by suicidal (02:46):
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Speaker: ideology and, who are people who (02:48):
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Speaker: are taking that ideology to (02:52):
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Speaker: attempts and fatal attempts, (02:54):
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Speaker: more frequently. (02:56):
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Speaker: And why? (02:57):
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Speaker: that will get us and lead us straight into stigma. (02:58):
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Speaker: we'll talk about stigma and how to reduce stigma through (03:02):
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Speaker: bringing awareness and how to look at the signs. (03:08):
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Speaker: Get a loved one, help, get help for yourself. (03:13):
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Speaker: what sort of steps you can take? (03:16):
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Speaker: What sort of resources are available to you? (03:18):
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Speaker: then we'll talk about, neuro hacks for increasing serotonin, (03:21):
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Speaker: ways to improve executive functioning, decrease (03:27):
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Speaker: impulsivity, and to improve your working memory Yeah, hopefully. (03:30):
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Speaker: Yeah. (03:34):
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Speaker: I am so looking forward to this conversation. (03:35):
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Speaker: I think I don't remember if I (03:40):
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Speaker: had said this in the podcast (03:42):
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Speaker: last week But I know as someone (03:44):
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Speaker: that's had suicidal ideations my (03:46):
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Speaker: whole life and then been (03:48):
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Speaker: affected so dramatically by (03:50):
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Speaker: someone having a suicide (03:51):
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Speaker: attempt, and then kind of my (03:53):
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Speaker: progress with dealing with that (03:55):
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Speaker: the last five years, even (03:56):
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Speaker: researching for these episodes (03:58):
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Speaker: for this podcast and (04:00):
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Speaker: understanding more of the neural (04:01):
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Speaker: circuits and kind of how our (04:04):
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Speaker: brain is working behind the (04:07):
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Speaker: scenes. (04:08):
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Speaker: then in this episode, what we (04:09):
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Speaker: can do to help support and (04:11):
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Speaker: change those circuits work with (04:12):
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Speaker: neuroplasticity, like we were (04:15):
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Speaker: kind of touching at the end of (04:16):
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Speaker: last episode. (04:17):
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Speaker: I'm really excited to see that, because even just learning about (04:18):
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Speaker: why that could have possibly happened gave me a lot of peace. (04:22):
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Speaker: then now taking it that next step further, like actively (04:26):
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Speaker: working to reduce stigma and then things you can do to help (04:29):
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Speaker: your brain to maybe not have these thoughts so intensely, or (04:32):
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Speaker: maybe even completely diminish them, is really exciting to me (04:37):
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Speaker: and just means a lot to me. (04:42):
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Speaker: So I'm so glad that we're doing this episode. (04:44):
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Speaker: Well, how do you feel about it? (04:46):
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Speaker: especially since we are spending a whole episode specifically on (04:48):
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Speaker: who's most affected, reducing stigma and then hacks to do it. (04:51):
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Speaker: why do you think it's important that we dedicate another extra (04:55):
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Speaker: hour to something like this? (04:58):
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Speaker: I think it's important. (05:00):
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Speaker: Because I feel like this could not be talked about enough. (05:02):
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Speaker: it feels like something that kind of hides in the shadows. (05:05):
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Speaker: I feel like for me, it became (05:08):
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Speaker: more normalized through our (05:11):
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Speaker: relationship. (05:13):
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Speaker: then unfortunately, it became a legitimate, permanent. (05:14):
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Speaker: Artifact in our lives, and for (05:19):
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Speaker: anybody who has that kind of (05:22):
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Speaker: permanent effect, for anybody (05:25):
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Speaker: who has that sort of, long (05:28):
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Speaker: lasting. (05:30):
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Speaker: Impact because of suicide, I feel like, you're just waiting (05:31):
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Speaker: for that space where it's, safe to talk about. (05:37):
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Speaker: Safe to be heard about it. (05:40):
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Speaker: you introduced me to the Afsp walks, and now I go every year (05:43):
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Speaker: because I just need a space. (05:50):
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Speaker: I think everybody just needs a space. (05:51):
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Speaker: for anyone listening, the afsp, (05:55):
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Speaker: the American Foundation for (05:57):
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Speaker: Suicide Prevention. (05:59):
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Speaker: they spend a lot of money and resources researching and (06:01):
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Speaker: supporting families of loved ones that have passed away from (06:04):
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Speaker: a suicide attempt. (06:10):
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Speaker: I actually was thinking about (06:11):
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Speaker: linking Arman's team link to (06:13):
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Speaker: this episode. (06:17):
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Speaker: So if anybody wants to donate (06:17):
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Speaker: Specifically in his name and to, (06:19):
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Speaker: you know, show support for our (06:21):
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Speaker: loved one. (06:23):
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Speaker: we would really appreciate it, even if it's just literally a (06:24):
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Speaker: dollar or a few dollars, because that adds up. (06:26):
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Speaker: Great idea. (06:28):
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Speaker: I wrote this paper on suicide (06:29):
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Speaker: policy for my masters, and I (06:33):
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Speaker: don't feel like I talked about (06:38):
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Speaker: enough. (06:40):
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Speaker: kind of a large population. (06:41):
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Speaker: I didn't really touch on enough. (06:44):
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Speaker: A few You populations. (06:47):
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Speaker: I feel like stand out heavily (06:48):
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Speaker: when you look at statistics (06:51):
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Speaker: about suicide. (06:52):
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Speaker: And the main one that I didn't talk about at all is, the (06:54):
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Speaker: increased amount of fatal attempts from men. (06:59):
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Speaker: I talked only a little bit about the two populations of (07:04):
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Speaker: transgender, non-binary youth non-gender conforming, youth has (07:08):
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Speaker: an increase, in suicide risk. (07:14):
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Speaker: And then individuals within the first thirty days of discharge (07:18):
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Speaker: from inpatient psych, including emergency department holds. (07:21):
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Speaker: I did talk about a little bit last week, and I think we'll (07:25):
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Speaker: talk about more this week, as in like how that plays into stigma. (07:28):
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Speaker: But I think we should really (07:33):
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Speaker: focus on men Transgender gender (07:34):
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Speaker: nonconforming youth. (07:38):
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Speaker: Yes, I agree completely. (07:41):
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Speaker: It was also strangely middle aged men. (07:44):
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Speaker: Men of all ages, but like also very much middle aged men. (07:47):
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Speaker: Was there a certain data you (07:51):
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Speaker: wanted to share about why that (07:53):
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Speaker: is? (07:55):
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Speaker: Or do you just want to speculate? (07:55):
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Speaker: For now, let's just speculate. (07:56):
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Speaker: Like natural conversation. (07:58):
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Speaker: Okay. (08:00):
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Speaker: I mean, I don't think it's that (08:01):
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Speaker: surprising as someone living (08:03):
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Speaker: within our society on really any (08:05):
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Speaker: of those. (08:08):
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Speaker: I don't think you, which is really sad, but I think you (08:09):
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Speaker: don't hear any of them. (08:11):
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Speaker: I think I want to acknowledge a few things specifically with the (08:13):
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Speaker: whole, white men being most likely to have successful or (08:16):
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Speaker: fatal suicide attempts, because I think something that is really (08:22):
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Speaker: important for us to bring up is, I think a lot of times in (08:25):
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Speaker: feminist discourse, whenever women are talking about. (08:29):
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Speaker: Living as a woman, right? (08:33):
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Speaker: And being like, this is what we're struggling with. (08:35):
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Speaker: I feel like a lot of times (08:38):
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Speaker: that's when you will hear in (08:39):
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Speaker: just normal culture, just normal (08:41):
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Speaker: conversations, men popping up (08:43):
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Speaker: like, yeah, but men are more (08:44):
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Speaker: likely to have fatal suicide (08:45):
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Speaker: attempts. (08:48):
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Speaker: So I think that's really (08:49):
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Speaker: important to bring into this (08:49):
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Speaker: conversation, is that it's (08:51):
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Speaker: important to bring this up all (08:53):
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Speaker: the time so that everybody can (08:54):
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Speaker: be safer and more on the lookout (08:56):
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Speaker: and look. (08:58):
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Speaker: But then when we look at why do (08:59):
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Speaker: men feel the need to insert this (09:01):
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Speaker: kind of statistic, which is (09:02):
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Speaker: true, but why does it seem to (09:04):
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Speaker: only come up when it's in (09:05):
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Speaker: regards to feminine or female, (09:06):
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Speaker: mental health? (09:10):
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Speaker: And I think a big part of that (09:12):
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Speaker: is because with, especially (09:14):
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Speaker: within our society, there isn't (09:16):
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Speaker: a safe space for, or culturally (09:18):
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Speaker: acceptable pathway for men to (09:22):
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Speaker: talk about their feelings and (09:25):
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Speaker: express their frustrations in (09:27):
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Speaker: healthy, emotionally intelligent (09:30):
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Speaker: ways. (09:31):
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Speaker: And so it all gets suppressed and they have no outlet, right? (09:33):
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Speaker: I think we've even talked about (09:36):
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Speaker: this a little last week that (09:37):
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Speaker: like girls, women of all ages, (09:38):
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Speaker: even, um, if you're lucky to (09:41):
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Speaker: have a community, even if you (09:44):
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Speaker: are transgender or non-binary, (09:45):
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Speaker: hopefully you are able to find (09:47):
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Speaker: some community. (09:49):
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Speaker: And if you do find community, you're more likely to have (09:50):
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Speaker: people to talk to. (09:52):
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Speaker: I think I could be wrong, but I think that you are more likely (09:53):
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Speaker: to have people to talk about your struggles and concerns if (09:57):
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Speaker: you are lucky to find community. (10:01):
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Speaker: And then I think in women, you (10:04):
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Speaker: are more likely to talk to your (10:06):
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Speaker: friends, even if it's not like, (10:07):
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Speaker: hey, I'm actively having these (10:09):
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Speaker: thoughts. (10:10):
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Speaker: You might be more likely to say, (10:11):
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Speaker: I'm really, really struggling (10:12):
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Speaker: with this. (10:13):
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Speaker: I'm really suffering. (10:13):
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Speaker: I have a lot of anxiety. (10:14):
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Speaker: I'm not sleeping well. (10:15):
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Speaker: Whereas men are less likely to do that. (10:16):
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Speaker: Cisgendered men are less likely (10:19):
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Speaker: to do that within their male (10:20):
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Speaker: friendships, and so by the time (10:21):
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Speaker: they get to their forties and (10:23):
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Speaker: fifties and they're looking (10:25):
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Speaker: around at their life, and there (10:27):
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Speaker: may be really unsatisfied with (10:30):
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Speaker: it, and they have no one to talk (10:32):
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Speaker: to. (10:33):
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Speaker: And they think no one cares (10:33):
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Speaker: about what they really want or (10:35):
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Speaker: feel. (10:36):
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Speaker: It feels like the only option. (10:36):
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Speaker: What do you. (10:39):
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Speaker: About that. (10:40):
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Speaker: So I think it's the types of relationships that are valued. (10:42):
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Speaker: Um, and I also think that it's ironic. (10:46):
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Speaker: So I had never had like a (10:52):
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Speaker: feminist or a, yeah, a any (10:53):
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Speaker: feminist discourse where I've (10:57):
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Speaker: had a man chime in with that (10:59):
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Speaker: statistic back. (11:00):
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Speaker: Oh, really? (11:02):
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Speaker: But no, but I think it's ironic because there if that statistic (11:02):
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Speaker: is thrown out as like, um, men have it harder. (11:09):
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Speaker: Well, yeah. (11:14):
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Speaker: Or like, women don't have a (11:15):
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Speaker: right to complain about (11:18):
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Speaker: patriarchal systems. (11:20):
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Speaker: The system is broken for everybody. (11:22):
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Speaker: I would be like, oh my God, absolutely, yes. (11:25):
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Speaker: It's like when you watch them come so close to making the (11:28):
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Speaker: point themselves that like the patriarchy and masculinity is (11:32):
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Speaker: specifically toxic masculinity. (11:38):
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Speaker: Not all masculinity. (11:40):
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Speaker: I want to be very clear, but the (11:41):
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Speaker: presence of toxic masculinity in (11:44):
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Speaker: the patriarchal system hurts (11:46):
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Speaker: everybody. (11:49):
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Speaker: And this is evidence. (11:50):
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Speaker: Evidence of that? (11:52):
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Speaker: It does. (11:53):
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Speaker: Yes. (11:54):
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Speaker: So it's like it almost like smacks you right in the face. (11:54):
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Speaker: Like this traditional masculinity in the association (11:59):
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Speaker: of high traditional masculinity actually is dangerous to men as (12:03):
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Speaker: well as women and gender non-conforming individuals and (12:10):
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Speaker: really all of us, because it creates hyper individualism, (12:15):
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Speaker: which separates and isolates people from community. (12:20):
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Speaker: It. Well, that's also (12:24):
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Speaker: capitalism, colonialism, (12:25):
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Speaker: industrialism. (12:27):
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Speaker: I just think the specifically if we're talking about men and how (12:28):
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Speaker: they are able to communicate or the types of relationships they (12:33):
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Speaker: value, or the types of traits they value in other people, it (12:37):
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Speaker: stems from what they are told is valuable about them. (12:43):
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Speaker: And that comes from this societal, you know, high (12:49):
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Speaker: traditional masculinity, which I don't think that all men subject (12:52):
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Speaker: themselves to this. (12:59):
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Speaker: However, even when you try your hardest not to. (13:01):
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Speaker: Man, man, woman, gender non-conforming individual. (13:05):
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Speaker: anybody, even when you try your hardest not to. (13:10):
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Speaker: I feel like it's really hard to ignore the fact that men are (13:12):
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Speaker: valued on what they provide. (13:18):
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Speaker: And I saw a lot of, financial (13:21):
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Speaker: insecurity can be a stressor (13:24):
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Speaker: that adds to someone's risk of (13:27):
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Speaker: suicide. (13:30):
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Speaker: So unemployment is actually the number one factor that increases (13:31):
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Speaker: your risk for suicide. (13:36):
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Speaker: Wow. (13:38):
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Speaker: Because when you're unemployed, I mean, if the majority of (13:40):
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Speaker: people having fatal suicide attempts, then we're getting (13:44):
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Speaker: this data mainly from men and unemployment in men, you know, (13:48):
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Speaker: can strike that sort of traditional masculine wound of (13:52):
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Speaker: being a provider. (13:57):
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Speaker: And so I would say that that I just found that interesting. (13:58):
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Speaker: I think that is interesting. (14:04):
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Speaker: I also think it's interesting you've never heard that. (14:07):
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Speaker: Because I feel like that is so common. (14:09):
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Speaker: I don't argue with. (14:11):
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Speaker: I don't argue with men about feminism. (14:12):
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Speaker: But more like, just a casual observing online. (14:17):
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Speaker: I feel like whenever anyone, any (14:20):
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Speaker: woman speaks out about it in the (14:22):
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Speaker: comments, it's always men being (14:24):
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Speaker: like, men are the most likely to (14:25):
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Speaker: commit suicide. (14:27):
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Speaker: And then it's like, like you said, yeah, that that's the (14:28):
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Speaker: point of this conversation, bro. (14:31):
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Speaker: But that's literally the point (14:33):
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Speaker: is that it's harming everyone to (14:34):
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Speaker: be in a society that values (14:37):
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Speaker: aggression, violence, looking (14:39):
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Speaker: out for yourself above all (14:43):
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Speaker: others. (14:44):
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Speaker: Impulsivity. (14:45):
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Speaker: You got it. (14:47):
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Speaker: So stop there. (14:48):
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Speaker: Anyway. (14:49):
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Speaker: Do you want to? (14:49):
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Speaker: Do you want to touch any more on that specifically, or just move (14:52):
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Speaker: more into like other groups that are most at risk and kind of why (14:55):
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Speaker: that might be? (14:59):
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Speaker: I think a lot of what I'm thinking about is speculative. (14:59):
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Speaker: I do have research on it, but I feel like I think it's fine to (15:06):
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Speaker: stay in speculative territory. (15:11):
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Speaker: And we know this is so controversial. (15:13):
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Speaker: Let's say it because we don't have to put it in if we decide (15:17):
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Speaker: it's too much. (15:20):
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Speaker: Essentially there are lots of (15:22):
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Speaker: areas of men's emotional (15:25):
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Speaker: maturity. (15:27):
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Speaker: And actually I would beg to say they're like frontal lobe in (15:28):
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Speaker: general and executive functioning that develops at a (15:34):
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Speaker: slower rate than women. (15:37):
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Speaker: And we were talking about (15:38):
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Speaker: yesterday that the prefrontal (15:40):
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Speaker: cortex, executive functioning, (15:41):
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Speaker: impulsivity, those are the (15:43):
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Speaker: things that essentially equate (15:45):
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Speaker: to a higher likelihood of these (15:48):
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Speaker: behaviors. (15:50):
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Speaker: But we don't necessarily see higher rates of depression and (15:51):
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Speaker: anxiety in men, which you'd think you would. (15:55):
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Speaker: Well, not anxiety because I'm (15:58):
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Speaker: but we don't see higher rates of (16:00):
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Speaker: like, depression. (16:02):
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Speaker: Like we don't see men taking (16:03):
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Speaker: more SSRIs than women, which you (16:04):
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Speaker: think you would Yes, but I will (16:08):
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Speaker: push back on that, that that (16:11):
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Speaker: also can be part of the cultural (16:13):
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Speaker: reasoning for why they have a (16:15):
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Speaker: higher rate of fatal suicide (16:18):
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Speaker: attempts, because they get less (16:21):
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Speaker: help. (16:23):
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Speaker: I don't think I don't know. (16:24):
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Speaker: But my speculative guess is that (16:26):
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Speaker: that is part of the problem, (16:30):
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Speaker: right? (16:32):
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Speaker: Is that I think women, right, (16:32):
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Speaker: especially cisgendered women, (16:34):
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Speaker: are more likely to get help, to (16:36):
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Speaker: seek support through (16:40):
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Speaker: friendships, through their (16:41):
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Speaker: doctor and are more likely to (16:43):
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Speaker: get prescribed these (16:45):
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Speaker: medications. (16:46):
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Speaker: And I think because we've come (16:47):
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Speaker: really far in the stigma around (16:49):
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Speaker: mental health and medications in (16:51):
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Speaker: the last, you know, you know, (16:52):
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Speaker: fifteen years. (16:53):
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Speaker: But I don't know that that's fully caught up to men, like (16:54):
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Speaker: where men are being like, hey, like talking openly about, you (16:57):
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Speaker: know, lorazepam and Zoloft and Lexapro and all this stuff, it (17:01):
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Speaker: is happening more within women's circles, I think. (17:05):
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Speaker: I don't know that They have (17:09):
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Speaker: higher rates of anxiety or (17:10):
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Speaker: depression. (17:12):
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Speaker: I don't know, but I also think (17:13):
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Speaker: it's not we don't I don't know (17:14):
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Speaker: that we don't know that, that (17:16):
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Speaker: it's equal or more because they (17:17):
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Speaker: might just not be seeking help (17:19):
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Speaker: or being honest, that they need (17:21):
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Speaker: And that's partially why it ends up leading to more anger and (17:22):
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Speaker: aggression and violence. (17:26):
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Speaker: Right? (17:28):
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Speaker: Because a lot of times sadness (17:28):
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Speaker: often shows up as anger, (17:29):
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Speaker: repressed anger especially when (17:31):
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Speaker: we're thinking from a spiritual (17:33):
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Speaker: and even psychological point of (17:35):
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Speaker: view. (17:37):
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Speaker: The anger is generally thought (17:37):
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Speaker: of as repressed sadness, and a (17:38):
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Speaker: lot of men are like body (17:41):
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Speaker: goosebumps. (17:43):
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Speaker: A lot of men are so angry because they are never allowed (17:44):
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Speaker: to be sad. (17:48):
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Speaker: I've had people say that to me, essentially they weren't allowed (17:49):
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Speaker: to be sad and that they're really only allowed to be angry. (17:54):
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Speaker: it says men are most likely to (18:00):
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Speaker: use like the lethal sort of (18:02):
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Speaker: means, because I think that (18:03):
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Speaker: they're, they're afraid of it, (18:05):
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Speaker: not of somebody finding them in (18:07):
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Speaker: a attempt. (18:09):
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Speaker: because what it would mean, and (18:11):
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Speaker: then they'd have to talk about (18:13):
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Speaker: it. (18:15):
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Speaker: And because it's so impulsive, they think about what is (18:15):
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Speaker: literally the most harmful, effective way I could do this. (18:20):
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Speaker: Whereas like me as a woman, I or (18:26):
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Speaker: as a cisgender woman, I'm just (18:28):
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Speaker: trying to think about, what is (18:31):
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Speaker: the least painful way I could do (18:33):
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Speaker: this? (18:35):
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Speaker: I think even when you think of movies whenever couples will (18:36):
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Speaker: broach this topic, it's always the woman being like, yeah, I'll (18:39):
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Speaker: just Poison you. (18:42):
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Speaker: I can't think of a specific movie right now, but I know they (18:43):
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Speaker: definitely come up with like a husband and wife will be (18:45):
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Speaker: talking, like, if you were going to kill me, how would it happen? (18:47):
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Speaker: And the wife is always like, I'll poison you. (18:49):
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Speaker: And the husband's like, I would decapitate you. (18:51):
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Speaker: She's like, what the fuck? (18:53):
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Speaker: Yeah, the homicide is not really (18:55):
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Speaker: the same thing, but you get you (18:56):
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Speaker: get the point of what I'm (18:57):
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Speaker: saying, though. (18:58):
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Speaker: Yeah, I think it's you're you're speaking to that, tendency to (18:59):
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Speaker: violence that not, recoiling at, blood or gore. (19:03):
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Speaker: And I don't necessarily think that all women do at all. (19:09):
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Speaker: I think there are a lot of women who are really into horror films (19:14):
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Speaker: and things like that. (19:17):
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Speaker: actual statistics to back up the (19:18):
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Speaker: idea that predominantly women (19:21):
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Speaker: are using less lethal means, (19:24):
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Speaker: less violent means than men on (19:28):
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Speaker: on average. (19:32):
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Speaker: Mhm. (19:34):
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Speaker: I think that are most likely I (19:35):
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Speaker: don't know why I'm saying most, (19:37):
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Speaker: most likely to have fatal (19:39):
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Speaker: slightly moist. (19:43):
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Speaker: and then we can kind of pull all (19:45):
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Speaker: this back together in terms of (19:46):
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Speaker: like, so what do you actually do (19:48):
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Speaker: with this information and what (19:50):
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Speaker: what does this mean for you as a (19:51):
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Speaker: living person with friends or (19:53):
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Speaker: yourself? (19:55):
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Speaker: Good thinking. (19:56):
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Speaker: Look at you. (19:58):
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Speaker: You're the anchor today. (19:58):
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Speaker: Do you want to start? (20:00):
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Speaker: And I'll chime in. (20:02):
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Speaker: I think you look. (20:03):
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Speaker: You looked at the data more, so I'm going to let you take the (20:04):
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Speaker: lead on that. (20:07):
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Speaker: Alrighty. (20:07):
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Speaker: We don't have to be data forward. (20:09):
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Speaker: Mads, you are so intelligent and (20:11):
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Speaker: wise, and I have never seen you (20:15):
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Speaker: shy away from starting the (20:17):
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Speaker: convo. (20:19):
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Speaker: You're right. (20:21):
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Speaker: I did tell you leading into this conversation, though, that my (20:22):
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Speaker: brain was feeling very slow. (20:25):
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Speaker: You're right. (20:27):
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Speaker: Today we are talking about transgender and nonbinary youth (20:28):
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Speaker: who unfortunately are heavily impacted by suicide. (20:33):
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Speaker: I think this one to me feels very obvious that when you are (20:40):
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Speaker: discriminated against, or when you don't feel comfortable in (20:48):
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Speaker: your own skin. (20:51):
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Speaker: And you. (20:53):
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Speaker: Are being perceived in a way that doesn't align with how you (20:54):
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Speaker: feel on the inside. (20:59):
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Speaker: I can't really speak to it, from personal experience. (21:00):
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Speaker: However, when what you are on (21:04):
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Speaker: the outside could not match what (21:09):
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Speaker: you feel on the inside and (21:12):
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Speaker: that's not your doing or feeling (21:13):
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Speaker: like it's not in your control at (21:16):
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Speaker: that moment. (21:19):
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Speaker: I could see how that would cause a level of distress that you (21:20):
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Speaker: can't really even understand how to cope with and would lead you (21:24):
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Speaker: to that place. (21:29):
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Speaker: It would be even more intense if family members, kind of denied (21:31):
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Speaker: to acknowledge, the identity you know and feel at your core. (21:37):
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Speaker: I think this subject would be really. (21:43):
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Speaker: I mean, it'd be fucked up of us not to cover this. (21:46):
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Speaker: Thank you. (21:49):
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Speaker: Yeah, that's exactly what it would be. (21:49):
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Speaker: It would be fucked up. (21:51):
undefined

Speaker: Not to mention that this is not a problem. (21:52):
undefined

Speaker: Even though we have experienced it. (21:56):
undefined

Speaker: This is not a problem that really affects us as much as it (21:57):
undefined

Speaker: affects, other individuals. (22:01):
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Speaker: who's experience, is indescribable from our our (22:04):
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Speaker: current standing in life. (22:09):
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Speaker: the study I found was actually (22:12):
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Speaker: done by the Trevor Project, (22:15):
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Speaker: which, you know, quite a bit (22:16):
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Speaker: about. (22:17):
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Speaker: I'll definitely link resources to the Trevor Project, which if (22:18):
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Speaker: you haven't heard, they are one of the best nonprofits for (22:21):
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Speaker: helping specifically LGBTQ plus people, but specifically trans (22:26):
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Speaker: people and getting them access to resources and support. (22:31):
undefined

Speaker: So we'll link that in the show notes. (22:34):
undefined

Speaker: it was released last year that there was a study done by the (22:36):
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Speaker: Trevor Project that actually linked higher rates of suicide (22:39):
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Speaker: attempts in transgender and non-gender conforming youth to (22:45):
undefined

Speaker: the passing of anti-trans laws in their state. (22:52):
undefined

Speaker: So it was state by state kind of set up. (22:57):
undefined

Speaker: And for the states that passed anti-trans legislation, the (23:00):
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Speaker: rates of suicide for youth in those states increased. (23:06):
undefined

Speaker: And there was like a direct link. (23:10):
undefined

Speaker: Wow. (23:12):
undefined

Speaker: of course, we're talking on a very, personal level a lot of (23:13):
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Speaker: times in this podcast. (23:17):
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Speaker: But how much public policy and the government, as much as (23:18):
undefined

Speaker: people want to be like, you don't have to have not (23:24):
undefined

Speaker: everything's about politics. (23:25):
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Speaker: Everything really is about politics. (23:26):
undefined

Speaker: Because even something like this (23:27):
undefined

Speaker: showing such a direct (23:29):
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Speaker: correlation between certain (23:30):
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Speaker: policies being passed and then (23:31):
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Speaker: how that's having these really (23:33):
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Speaker: adverse effects on the people (23:35):
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Speaker: it's targeting. (23:37):
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Speaker: You can't deny that. (23:38):
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Speaker: Every everything is politics. (23:40):
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Speaker: And I think I also want to (23:42):
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Speaker: address like before we go more (23:43):
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Speaker: into this, I think it's really (23:45):
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Speaker: important to both of us in our (23:46):
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Speaker: hearts to talk about this and (23:49):
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Speaker: acknowledge that it's not our (23:52):
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Speaker: direct experience. (23:54):
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Speaker: And so we think it's really important to link to resources (23:55):
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Speaker: and talk about things that aren't in our direct experience (23:59):
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Speaker: and acknowledge that we don't know everything and that we're (24:01):
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Speaker: open for feedback as well. (24:03):
undefined

Speaker: Yes, absolutely. (24:05):
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Speaker: I actually pulled up the Trevor (24:07):
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Speaker: Project, So in their twenty (24:09):
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Speaker: twenty four survey, they found (24:11):
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Speaker: that thirty nine percent of (24:13):
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Speaker: LGBTQ plus young people (24:15):
undefined

Speaker: seriously considered attempting (24:17):
undefined

Speaker: suicide in the past year, thirty (24:19):
undefined

Speaker: nine percent. (24:21):
undefined

Speaker: And that didn't even group, but (24:22):
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Speaker: just by trans individuals, but (24:23):
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Speaker: by everyone in the LGBTQ plus (24:26):
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Speaker: spectrum. (24:29):
undefined

Speaker: And so that's I mean that that just shows like the significance (24:30):
undefined

Speaker: of this, though, and that even if you don't understand or even (24:34):
undefined

Speaker: if you're worried about how you're going to be perceived (24:38):
undefined

Speaker: because you think you're going to say the wrong thing. (24:41):
undefined

Speaker: I seriously believe that the most important thing that you (24:44):
undefined

Speaker: can do is to be really clear that you're on their side, (24:47):
undefined

Speaker: whether you understand or know what to say or not. (24:50):
undefined

Speaker: And just by having these (24:52):
undefined

Speaker: conversations of being a safe (24:53):
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Speaker: place and kind of knowing what (24:55):
undefined

Speaker: you can do to support them or to (24:56):
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undefined

Speaker: I think another thing is, awareness and essentially (25:01):
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Speaker: erasing the faux pas around these conversations and being (25:06):
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Speaker: able to broach these subjects. (25:10):
undefined

Speaker: we talked about in the high risk of, you know, cis white men, (25:14):
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Speaker: that is a problem that stems from a lack of communication, a (25:20):
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Speaker: lack of voicing. (25:26):
undefined

Speaker: And so I think Whether you feel. (25:28):
undefined

Speaker: socially positioned to speak on it, is a moot point. (25:31):
undefined

Speaker: You can't really overlook, people (25:36):
undefined

Speaker: But basically avoid misinformation and offer hope. (25:39):
undefined

Speaker: Suicide is complex. (25:42):
undefined

Speaker: They're almost always multiple causes. (25:43):
undefined

Speaker: But I know we kind of went over this from the brain side the (25:45):
undefined

Speaker: other day of, the cellular or neurological reasons you might (25:49):
undefined

Speaker: be doing this, but in, the average person, right? (25:53):
undefined

Speaker: Dare I say everyone you can't see inside someone's brains. (25:56):
undefined

Speaker: So kind of the risk factors that (25:59):
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Speaker: you, the mental and physical (26:01):
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Speaker: risk factors that you should (26:03):
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Speaker: look out for, I think it's (26:04):
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Speaker: important just to go over (26:05):
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Speaker: quickly. (26:07):
undefined

Speaker: And again we'll put we'll link all of this like in writing for (26:08):
undefined

Speaker: you to review. (26:11):
undefined

Speaker: but the big things. (26:12):
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Speaker: Is history or signs of (26:13):
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Speaker: depression, history of mental (26:15):
undefined

Speaker: illness, history of being abused (26:17):
undefined

Speaker: or mistreated, self-injury, (26:19):
undefined

Speaker: tendency to be impulsive, major (26:22):
undefined

Speaker: physical illness, affective (26:25):
undefined

Speaker: disorders like mood disorders, (26:27):
undefined

Speaker: which I know we covered quite a (26:29):
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Speaker: bit last week, and then previous (26:30):
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Speaker: attempts. (26:32):
undefined

Speaker: And then the big environmental (26:33):
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Speaker: factors you should look at is (26:34):
undefined

Speaker: barriers to mental health (26:35):
undefined

Speaker: services, lack of community (26:36):
undefined

Speaker: support. (26:38):
undefined

Speaker: So those two big ones are ones that we've been covering in the (26:39):
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Speaker: last twenty minutes. (26:41):
undefined

Speaker: Homelessness, a death or (26:43):
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Speaker: relationship breakup, job loss (26:45):
undefined

Speaker: or change in financial security (26:48):
undefined

Speaker: as Cat was talking about (26:50):
undefined

Speaker: earlier. (26:51):
undefined

Speaker: Feeling unsafe. (26:52):
undefined

Speaker: Family history of suicide, high (26:53):
undefined

Speaker: stress family environment or (26:56):
undefined

Speaker: dynamic academic or family (26:57):
undefined

Speaker: crisis and easy access to lethal (26:59):
undefined

Speaker: materials. (27:01):
undefined

Speaker: but something that I did mean to (27:02):
undefined

Speaker: bring up last time, and we (27:04):
undefined

Speaker: didn't get to it, but also is (27:06):
undefined

Speaker: like, it would be fucked up of (27:08):
undefined

Speaker: us not to include or say (27:09):
undefined

Speaker: something is that there was one (27:11):
undefined

Speaker: research study I found that was (27:13):
undefined

Speaker: talking about the number one (27:15):
undefined

Speaker: way. (27:18):
undefined

Speaker: The number one thing we could do to prevent suicide is to reduce (27:18):
undefined

Speaker: access to firearms. (27:23):
undefined

Speaker: Which sounds like no duh. (27:25):
undefined

Speaker: And it I it also was from like early to mid two thousand. (27:26):
undefined

Speaker: I literally looked up at my mom (27:30):
undefined

Speaker: and was like, mom, how are we (27:32):
undefined

Speaker: still having the same (27:33):
undefined

Speaker: conversation? (27:33):
undefined

Speaker: This paper was written in two thousand and eight and it was (27:34):
undefined

Speaker: talking about the number one way we can prevent suicides is to (27:36):
undefined

Speaker: have higher regulation and less access to firearms, because, as (27:40):
undefined

Speaker: we talked about, so typically more impulsive decision. (27:47):
undefined

Speaker: And if you can remove the ease of which people can go through (27:50):
undefined

Speaker: with the act, they're very unlikely to look for other (27:55):
undefined

Speaker: resources in that moment. (27:58):
undefined

Speaker: And it ties in with like the policy and legal level of stuff. (28:00):
undefined

Speaker: politics is everything, right? (28:03):
undefined

Speaker: I'm quoting this from a paper. (28:05):
undefined

Speaker: And this is from a systematic review, which for anyone that's (28:08):
undefined

Speaker: not in the science world, they are looking at a wide range of (28:12):
undefined

Speaker: studies, not just one. (28:16):
undefined

Speaker: So they didn't they didn't do their own experiment. (28:18):
undefined

Speaker: They looked at a bunch of different published research and (28:23):
undefined

Speaker: then did statistics on that. (28:27):
undefined

Speaker: So this particular research looked at twenty eight genes. (28:29):
undefined

Speaker: This was published in twenty thirteen, so twelve years ago, (28:33):
undefined

Speaker: and I'm quoting them. (28:37):
undefined

Speaker: There may be no more effective approach to suicide prevention (28:39):
undefined

Speaker: than to reduce access to means on a large scale. (28:43):
undefined

Speaker: Access to firearms in the United (28:46):
undefined

Speaker: States represents a prime (28:48):
undefined

Speaker: example. (28:49):
undefined

Speaker: Firearms are the Leading cause of suicide. (28:50):
undefined

Speaker: Death in the United States and laws regulating the availability (28:52):
undefined

Speaker: of firearms vary by state. (28:55):
undefined

Speaker: then they said there is a common (28:56):
undefined

Speaker: assumption that if someone (28:58):
undefined

Speaker: seeking to attempt suicide has a (28:59):
undefined

Speaker: method of choice blocked, he or (29:01):
undefined

Speaker: she will simply find another (29:03):
undefined

Speaker: method. (29:04):
undefined

Speaker: The data described above provides strong evidence (29:05):
undefined

Speaker: disputing this assumption. (29:08):
undefined

Speaker: A probable explanation is that (29:10):
undefined

Speaker: suicidal crises are motivated by (29:12):
undefined

Speaker: extreme pain, hopelessness, and (29:14):
undefined

Speaker: other distressing Affective and (29:15):
undefined

Speaker: cognitive states. (29:17):
undefined

Speaker: They ebb and flow over time. (29:19):
undefined

Speaker: Anyway, back to what you were saying. (29:21):
undefined

Speaker: I do think that that last part's interesting. (29:24):
undefined

Speaker: If we're talking firearms, we (29:26):
undefined

Speaker: can also talk about highly (29:28):
undefined

Speaker: traditional masculinity. (29:31):
undefined

Speaker: And so this paper essentially (29:33):
undefined

Speaker: says that there is, In male (29:36):
undefined

Speaker: suicide death, highly (29:40):
undefined

Speaker: traditional masculinity may be (29:42):
undefined

Speaker: an underlying influence, (29:44):
undefined

Speaker: increasing the probability of (29:46):
undefined

Speaker: externalizing behavior. (29:48):
undefined

Speaker: Risk factors such as anger, (29:49):
undefined

Speaker: violence, gun access, and school (29:51):
undefined

Speaker: problems. (29:53):
undefined

Speaker: So it it says here that men die by suicide at three point five (29:54):
undefined

Speaker: times the rate of women. (30:00):
undefined

Speaker: Die by suicide. (30:02):
undefined

Speaker: So that backs up kind of (30:04):
undefined

Speaker: everything we're talking about (30:05):
undefined

Speaker: earlier. (30:06):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: and it says the driver of this gender disparity is high. (30:08):
undefined

Speaker: Traditional masculinity, which (30:13):
undefined

Speaker: sets norms of competitiveness, (30:15):
undefined

Speaker: emotional restriction and (30:17):
undefined

Speaker: aggression. (30:20):
undefined

Speaker: Makes sense. (30:20):
undefined

Speaker: again we will put more extensive notes and resources in the show (30:22):
undefined

Speaker: notes, but just to kind of bury it in your head, if you are in (30:26):
undefined

Speaker: the United States, there is a twenty four over seven hotline (30:31):
undefined

Speaker: for suicide and crisis help. (30:35):
undefined

Speaker: It is nine, eight, eight and I'm (30:37):
undefined

Speaker: pretty sure they have texting (30:39):
undefined

Speaker: available too. (30:40):
undefined

Speaker: So yes, you can text or call or (30:41):
undefined

Speaker: do a chat online twenty four (30:44):
undefined

Speaker: over seven. (30:46):
undefined

Speaker: The languages are in English and Spanish. (30:47):
undefined

Speaker: Nine. (30:51):
undefined

Speaker: Eight. (30:51):
undefined
undefined

Speaker: So we want to talk about, what you can do from here, whether (30:52):
undefined

Speaker: that's for yourself or for people that you know, because I (30:56):
undefined

Speaker: think we like we talked about briefly one of the big themes, (31:01):
undefined

Speaker: even though on the outside you're like, what is the middle (31:04):
undefined

Speaker: aged white cis dude have to do with trans youth? (31:07):
undefined

Speaker: But ultimately that comes down to community and being allowed (31:11):
undefined

Speaker: to exist in a way that you really want to. (31:15):
undefined

Speaker: The congruence between what you want and what your life actually (31:18):
undefined

Speaker: is and societal expectations. (31:21):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: Of like who you should be and what you are and what we value, (31:25):
undefined

Speaker: what you value. (31:28):
undefined

Speaker: so we want to end the podcast (31:30):
undefined

Speaker: right in this conversation in a (31:32):
undefined

Speaker: really hopeful way and with (31:34):
undefined

Speaker: practical steps that you can (31:37):
undefined

Speaker: take. (31:38):
undefined

Speaker: The biggest thing you can do, whether you are the person (31:39):
undefined

Speaker: experiencing these thoughts and behaviors or you notice someone (31:43):
undefined

Speaker: in your family, friends or community are, the biggest thing (31:48):
undefined

Speaker: you can do is to talk to people and reach out for support. (31:52):
undefined

Speaker: overwhelming research shows that talking to other people is one (31:56):
undefined

Speaker: of the most helpful things you can do to help someone not feel (32:01):
undefined

Speaker: alone, and to feel seen and understood, and that someone (32:05):
undefined

Speaker: cares about them. (32:07):
undefined

Speaker: Would you agree on that, Kat? (32:09):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: And this goes back to the myth that you pointed out that people (32:11):
undefined

Speaker: are so scared that if they see somebody who they think might (32:14):
undefined

Speaker: be, experiencing or struggling with thoughts of suicide. (32:19):
undefined

Speaker: They think that talking to them is going to make it worse. (32:24):
undefined

Speaker: And the research overwhelmingly shows that that is a non issue. (32:27):
undefined

Speaker: if you're concerned showing (32:32):
undefined

Speaker: concern is the best thing you (32:35):
undefined

Speaker: could do. (32:36):
undefined

Speaker: Giving somebody a space to talk about it. (32:37):
undefined

Speaker: taking the faux pas and the stigma away from it. (32:40):
undefined

Speaker: Support, support support. (32:43):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: And if it's just you or you need (32:45):
undefined

Speaker: to get your friend or family (32:48):
undefined

Speaker: member support. (32:49):
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Speaker: We've mentioned a few different resources, which we will also (32:50):
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Speaker: link in the notes. (32:53):
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Speaker: But you can have talk, chat or text help twenty four over seven (32:54):
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Speaker: from nine eight eight. (32:59):
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Speaker: I think like nine one one but nine eight eight. (33:02):
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Speaker: you can also go directly on to (33:04):
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Speaker: the Trevor Project website or (33:05):
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Speaker: the Afsp, the American (33:08):
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Speaker: Foundation for Suicide (33:10):
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Speaker: Prevention website. (33:11):
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Speaker: All of those have resources for (33:12):
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Speaker: you and your family, and they (33:14):
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Speaker: can help you with some of the (33:16):
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Speaker: things we'll bring up in a few (33:17):
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Speaker: moments. (33:18):
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undefined

Speaker: And the Afsp also has very targeted groups. (33:20):
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Speaker: So veterans suffering from suicide, like they will get (33:24):
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Speaker: into, every single niche. (33:27):
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Speaker: If you feel like you have some (33:28):
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Speaker: sort of like co-occurring issue (33:30):
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Speaker: that is the root or what stems a (33:33):
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Speaker: lot, or you feel like this (33:36):
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Speaker: person doesn't really want to (33:38):
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Speaker: talk about the suicide on its (33:39):
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Speaker: own, but needs some other form (33:42):
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Speaker: of common ground and is worried (33:44):
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Speaker: about the group that they're (33:46):
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Speaker: going into. (33:47):
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Speaker: communities do also have support (33:48):
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Speaker: groups, and I would highly (33:50):
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Speaker: recommend one on one counseling (33:53):
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Speaker: as well. (33:55):
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Speaker: for those people who feel like, you know, they're a burden on (33:56):
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Speaker: their loved ones, or they just don't feel like people really (34:00):
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Speaker: care or want to hear them? (34:04):
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Speaker: I take a lot of, solace in knowing that I pay somebody to (34:06):
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Speaker: care to listen to my issues. (34:10):
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undefined

Speaker: So if you are able to afford therapy, that is a really, (34:15):
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Speaker: really excellent resource. (34:21):
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Speaker: That cannot be. (34:22):
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Speaker: Diminished. (34:24):
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Speaker: Here's the thing. (34:25):
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Speaker: If you what I've been what I've (34:27):
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Speaker: found in my own journey, is even (34:29):
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Speaker: if you don't have health (34:33):
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Speaker: insurance all the time, if you (34:34):
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Speaker: talk to a private counselor, (34:36):
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Speaker: somebody who runs their own (34:39):
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Speaker: practice, they are more than (34:40):
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Speaker: willing to work out hourly rates (34:42):
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Speaker: for you. (34:45):
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Speaker: And you can pay as you go. (34:46):
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Speaker: I had one of my first counselors in Pennsylvania. (34:48):
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Speaker: I had was forty dollars an hour, (34:52):
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Speaker: and they did not take my (34:55):
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Speaker: insurance even though I had (34:57):
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Speaker: insurance, and we worked that (34:58):
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Speaker: out. (35:00):
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Speaker: so I would not shy away. (35:01):
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Speaker: I know that counseling seems (35:03):
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Speaker: like it's unaffordable or (35:05):
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Speaker: unattainable. (35:06):
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Speaker: but I will say that counselors do want to help. (35:07):
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Speaker: And if you need this kind of (35:11):
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Speaker: help, They will find someone who (35:13):
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Speaker: accepts whatever you have going (35:17):
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Speaker: on. (35:18):
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Speaker: I mean, I even know social (35:19):
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Speaker: workers who have gone onto, (35:21):
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Speaker: like, trading and bartering for (35:24):
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Speaker: their services. (35:26):
undefined

Speaker: because that's that's literally what they want to do. (35:27):
undefined

Speaker: So, don't let finances be a barrier for you. (35:30):
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Speaker: Medicaid, anything, whatever it is, I know personally that, (35:34):
undefined

Speaker: they're willing to figure out things for you. (35:39):
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undefined

Speaker: It's like, keep looking. (35:44):
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Speaker: To your point, a lot of places (35:45):
undefined

Speaker: will even have, uh, like pay (35:46):
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Speaker: scale. (35:49):
undefined

Speaker: That is called sliding. (35:50):
undefined

Speaker: Sliding pay? (35:51):
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undefined

Speaker: Offers. (35:53):
undefined

Speaker: so definitely looking for groups and one on one therapy. (35:54):
undefined

Speaker: And then also just talking to (36:00):
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Speaker: trusted friends and family are (36:01):
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Speaker: all really, really great places (36:04):
undefined

Speaker: to start. (36:06):
undefined

Speaker: the next thing that we (36:07):
undefined

Speaker: definitely want to make sure you (36:08):
undefined

Speaker: know how to do Because let's be (36:10):
undefined

Speaker: honest. (36:12):
undefined

Speaker: you can't always talk to someone (36:13):
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Speaker: the moment you're having a (36:15):
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Speaker: crisis. (36:16):
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Speaker: I'm sure both you and I can relate to that cat. (36:17):
undefined

Speaker: So I know something that really helped me was actually creating (36:21):
undefined

Speaker: a safety plan. (36:24):
undefined

Speaker: This is especially important for (36:26):
undefined

Speaker: me right after our mom's (36:27):
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Speaker: passing, and I actually have (36:28):
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Speaker: used it all these years later in (36:30):
undefined

Speaker: moments of even just like high (36:31):
undefined

Speaker: panic or anxiety or depressive (36:32):
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Speaker: episodes. (36:35):
undefined

Speaker: Do you want to kind of explain (36:36):
undefined

Speaker: to people like what a safety (36:38):
undefined

Speaker: plan is and like why it's (36:40):
undefined

Speaker: helpful? (36:42):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: So there is actually research (36:44):
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Speaker: stating that safety plans, do (36:46):
undefined

Speaker: decrease, risk from suicidal (36:49):
undefined

Speaker: ideation to likelihood of (36:52):
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Speaker: attempt, because when somebody (36:54):
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Speaker: is in that state, that emotional (36:57):
undefined

Speaker: crisis state of considering (37:00):
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Speaker: attempting, they can they're not (37:02):
undefined

Speaker: really accessing their (37:03):
undefined

Speaker: prefrontal cortex. (37:05):
undefined

Speaker: Right? (37:07):
undefined

Speaker: They're not accessing the part of their brain that is able to (37:07):
undefined

Speaker: emotionally regulate and think things through and plan. (37:11):
undefined

Speaker: And so a safety plan is exactly that. (37:14):
undefined

Speaker: It is what people around them (37:17):
undefined

Speaker: can do, or what they can do when (37:20):
undefined

Speaker: they can't think of their (37:22):
undefined

Speaker: healthy coping skills, let's (37:23):
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Speaker: say. (37:25):
undefined

Speaker: So aspects of a safety plan usually include, warning signs (37:26):
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Speaker: before the crisis occurs. (37:32):
undefined

Speaker: So what are behaviors that loved (37:34):
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Speaker: ones, or people close to them or (37:36):
undefined

Speaker: they themselves can identify to (37:38):
undefined

Speaker: say, whoa, like I am going into (37:40):
undefined

Speaker: a sort of emotional crisis mode (37:43):
undefined

Speaker: where I won't be able to access (37:46):
undefined

Speaker: certain parts of my thinking or (37:51):
undefined

Speaker: cognitive function if I get much (37:54):
undefined

Speaker: more emotional. (37:56):
undefined

Speaker: These are warning signs. (37:56):
undefined

Speaker: These are things to look out for. (37:57):
undefined

Speaker: it'll usually identify triggers and stressors. (37:59):
undefined

Speaker: it will identify internal strategies in which they can use (38:03):
undefined

Speaker: without access to people. (38:08):
undefined

Speaker: So if they are one hundred (38:10):
undefined

Speaker: percent alone, they will have a (38:11):
undefined

Speaker: list of things that they can (38:13):
undefined

Speaker: pull from because they can't (38:15):
undefined

Speaker: think of them themselves like in (38:16):
undefined

Speaker: that moment. (38:18):
undefined

Speaker: There are also, distraction techniques that it'll use so (38:18):
undefined

Speaker: things that can distract them, people that can distract them, (38:22):
undefined

Speaker: places they can go, it will identify safe spaces for them. (38:25):
undefined

Speaker: Environments or things to do to their environment to help them (38:29):
undefined

Speaker: feel more safe. (38:33):
undefined

Speaker: And then the biggest thing will (38:34):
undefined

Speaker: be like a list of people they (38:36):
undefined

Speaker: feel comfortable supporting, (38:38):
undefined

Speaker: including professionals, people (38:39):
undefined

Speaker: in their community, family (38:42):
undefined

Speaker: members, friends. (38:43):
undefined

Speaker: the more variety of different types of support you can provide (38:44):
undefined

Speaker: in a safety plan. (38:48):
undefined

Speaker: the more likely they are to use (38:50):
undefined

Speaker: it because they might feel (38:53):
undefined

Speaker: comfortable with one in one (38:55):
undefined

Speaker: situation, but more comfortable (38:56):
undefined

Speaker: with another in another (38:59):
undefined

Speaker: situation. (38:59):
undefined

Speaker: in safety plans at my work, we generally require that there's a (39:00):
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Speaker: clinician, a facility that they feel comfortable with. (39:05):
undefined

Speaker: Oh, yeah. (39:08):
undefined

Speaker: So we talked about one population. (39:09):
undefined

Speaker: We kind of briefly went over it. (39:11):
undefined

Speaker: But one of the populations that (39:13):
undefined

Speaker: is most at risk are individuals (39:15):
undefined

Speaker: within the thirty days of (39:17):
undefined

Speaker: discharge from an inpatient (39:19):
undefined

Speaker: psych, including emergency (39:20):
undefined

Speaker: department holds. (39:22):
undefined

Speaker: So if for some people attempts can be more frequent, and for (39:23):
undefined

Speaker: those people, or if they have co-occurring mental health (39:29):
undefined

Speaker: disorders that may include psychosis that go along with (39:33):
undefined

Speaker: this sort of Ideation attempt kind of crisis state, a big part (39:38):
undefined

Speaker: of a safety plan you can also do is what hospital do they prefer (39:43):
undefined

Speaker: for their sort of, suicide hold. (39:49):
undefined

Speaker: So if there's somebody who frequently has attempts, if you (39:52):
undefined

Speaker: are parents to a kid who has frequent attempts and you really (39:54):
undefined

Speaker: don't feel safe because that's what it the object, the that's (39:58):
undefined

Speaker: what the objective is in that scenario is to get them into a (40:05):
undefined

Speaker: twenty four hour monitored safety hold because you as their (40:10):
undefined

Speaker: care provider, you know, you need sleep like you're just a (40:15):
undefined

Speaker: human as well. (40:18):
undefined

Speaker: So sometimes professional help is needed. (40:18):
undefined

Speaker: But what kind of professional help do they prefer? (40:21):
undefined

Speaker: What kind of professional help? (40:24):
undefined

Speaker: where do they feel most comfortable? (40:26):
undefined

Speaker: Because different emergency rooms handle things differently. (40:28):
undefined

Speaker: so you can do a safety plan (40:32):
undefined

Speaker: around the types of professional (40:33):
undefined

Speaker: decisions they would, you would (40:35):
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Speaker: like to make in event of a (40:37):
undefined

Speaker: crisis. (40:39):
undefined

Speaker: Like, I prefer to go to this hospital, over this hospital. (40:40):
undefined

Speaker: because my counselor or (40:43):
undefined

Speaker: psychiatrist is actually in (40:46):
undefined

Speaker: touch with this hospital or, (40:48):
undefined

Speaker: tangential to and has releases (40:50):
undefined

Speaker: signed for them and things like (40:52):
undefined

Speaker: that. (40:53):
undefined

Speaker: So you can get, you know, a (40:53):
undefined

Speaker: package of pre signed releases, (40:56):
undefined

Speaker: emergency contacts, things like (40:58):
undefined

Speaker: that, and submit them to the (41:00):
undefined

Speaker: same, admit them to the same, (41:01):
undefined

Speaker: facility. (41:04):
undefined

Speaker: so that can also be a part of a (41:05):
undefined

Speaker: safety plan if hospitalization (41:07):
undefined

Speaker: is just a part of the reality of (41:09):
undefined

Speaker: that situation because sometimes (41:11):
undefined

Speaker: it is. (41:13):
undefined

Speaker: All right. (41:14):
undefined

Speaker: So that's what a safety plan is. (41:14):
undefined

Speaker: Can be can include I think we will kind of consolidate all (41:16):
undefined

Speaker: that information in a format that is, you know, kind of (41:22):
undefined

Speaker: something somebody can print out, fill out, or keep an (41:26):
undefined

Speaker: electronic copy of whichever you would prefer, or just use as a (41:30):
undefined

Speaker: guideline to keep on hand for these sorts of situations. (41:33):
undefined

Speaker: If, you're a parent or a friend, (41:38):
undefined

Speaker: or, you know, somebody who could (41:40):
undefined

Speaker: really use this, or aspects of (41:42):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: We will make that a resource. (41:44):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: And thank you for that information, because that was (41:48):
undefined

Speaker: very cohesive and very helpful. (41:50):
undefined

Speaker: And I didn't even think about something like that. (41:53):
undefined

Speaker: But knowing like your preferred (41:55):
undefined

Speaker: hospital or care provider is (41:57):
undefined

Speaker: definitely a next level step and (42:00):
undefined

Speaker: support that could really help (42:02):
undefined

Speaker: someone to not be like (42:04):
undefined

Speaker: traumatized further. (42:05):
undefined

Speaker: Absolutely. (42:07):
undefined

undefined
undefined

Speaker: That. (42:09):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: That is the goal. (42:11):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: So we will put a link in our (42:13):
undefined

Speaker: show notes to access that safety (42:15):
undefined

Speaker: plan. (42:18):
undefined

Speaker: Kat, do you recommend if someone (42:19):
undefined

Speaker: let's say an individual, they've (42:20):
undefined

Speaker: kind of been listening to this (42:23):
undefined

Speaker: episode, they're like, yeah, I (42:24):
undefined

Speaker: definitely struggle with (42:26):
undefined

Speaker: suicidal ideation. (42:27):
undefined

Speaker: And they decide to fill out the safety plan. (42:29):
undefined

Speaker: Is this something they should, tell somebody about? (42:31):
undefined

Speaker: Or they just are going to put it in their purse or what are they (42:34):
undefined

Speaker: going to do with it after they fill it out? (42:37):
undefined

Speaker: So safety plans are most useful (42:39):
undefined

Speaker: when somebody else knows about (42:43):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: Because like we said, in a crisis state, you're going to (42:45):
undefined

Speaker: forget all about that safety plan and you're not really (42:48):
undefined

Speaker: thinking that anybody needs it in that moment. (42:51):
undefined

Speaker: And you feel alone and isolated. (42:54):
undefined

Speaker: And yeah, you might want to do the internal coping strategies (42:56):
undefined

Speaker: that are listed on there. (43:01):
undefined

Speaker: but that might not feel accessible. (43:03):
undefined

Speaker: So sharing it with somebody you trust or your clinician, (43:06):
undefined

Speaker: oftentimes clinicians, when you say that you have any form of (43:10):
undefined

Speaker: ideation, they would do an assessment for risk likelihood (43:15):
undefined

Speaker: to make sure that you are safe to go home. (43:18):
undefined

Speaker: And they, you know, assess things like whether you have (43:20):
undefined

Speaker: access to lethal means or not and will take your lethal means (43:23):
undefined

Speaker: or hold them temporarily to, you know, improve your safety. (43:27):
undefined

Speaker: but they generally have you fill (43:31):
undefined

Speaker: out a safety plan and have it (43:34):
undefined

Speaker: because that is it's best used (43:35):
undefined

Speaker: in community. (43:39):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: That's great. (43:41):
undefined

Speaker: And I think to that point too, because I love you. (43:42):
undefined

Speaker: You did I love sounds like a strong word. (43:45):
undefined

Speaker: But you mentioned like if you're a parent to a child with (43:47):
undefined

Speaker: suicidal ideation or tendencies, I think even this way to create (43:51):
undefined

Speaker: the safety plan with them and feel like not blaming them or (43:56):
undefined

Speaker: being like there's something wrong with you or you're seeking (44:00):
undefined

Speaker: attention, but more like, let's make a plan together. (44:02):
undefined

Speaker: Like when you're feeling really sad or overwhelmed or like (44:05):
undefined

Speaker: you're all alone. (44:07):
undefined

Speaker: Like, these are the fun activities you can do. (44:08):
undefined

Speaker: And almost like that way it's (44:11):
undefined

Speaker: like if they like, need to just (44:13):
undefined

Speaker: go on a walk or they need to (44:13):
undefined

Speaker: like play video games for an (44:15):
undefined

Speaker: hour, they have something to (44:17):
undefined

Speaker: point to. (44:19):
undefined

Speaker: And maybe in those really (44:20):
undefined

Speaker: emotionally triggered or high (44:21):
undefined

Speaker: situations, the parents don't (44:23):
undefined

Speaker: have to be like, you're always (44:24):
undefined

Speaker: playing games. (44:25):
undefined

Speaker: Do your homework. (44:26):
undefined

Speaker: They can kind of be like, look, I'm following my plan. (44:27):
undefined

Speaker: I need to do this. (44:29):
undefined

Speaker: yeah, I have had people fill out safety plans and put things in (44:30):
undefined

Speaker: them, like, my internal coping strategy is to sleep. (44:34):
undefined

Speaker: And, you know, we know with depression we want to encourage (44:38):
undefined

Speaker: healthy forms of coping. (44:42):
undefined

Speaker: So I would say video games (44:43):
undefined

Speaker: should not be on the safety (44:45):
undefined

Speaker: plan. (44:46):
undefined

Speaker: that's what I would say personally. (44:47):
undefined

Speaker: But if you think it is (44:48):
undefined

Speaker: genuinely, genuinely beneficial (44:50):
undefined

Speaker: and distracting, I think (44:52):
undefined

Speaker: everything can be (44:54):
undefined

Speaker: individualized. (44:55):
undefined

Speaker: But I do think that a safety plan is a useful tool to connect (44:56):
undefined

Speaker: people and make people feel concerned and cared for. (45:02):
undefined

Speaker: and like they're on a team. (45:07):
undefined

Speaker: And this isn't just an issue they deal with alone, loan, but (45:09):
undefined

Speaker: an issue that, um, people want to provide support for. (45:13):
undefined

Speaker: Like, it feels like a team effort at that point when you do (45:19):
undefined

Speaker: it with somebody. (45:22):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: It's good. (45:24):
undefined

Speaker: So whether it's like your parent or you're the parent or it's (45:24):
undefined

Speaker: your partner in a romantic way or your best friend. (45:27):
undefined

Speaker: Ultimately we just want to encourage you to find someone (45:31):
undefined

Speaker: you trust and can share this with and to remind you to for (45:33):
undefined

Speaker: them to remind you to remind them about your safety plan in (45:38):
undefined

Speaker: the moment of a crisis. (45:42):
undefined

Speaker: Which because like you like you said, you might not remember, (45:44):
undefined

Speaker: that you have that plan or like to implement those tools, but (45:46):
undefined

Speaker: you might be able to text or call that person. (45:49):
undefined

Speaker: Another thing is, is with a (45:53):
undefined

Speaker: safety plan, it opens up for (45:55):
undefined

Speaker: discussion. (45:57):
undefined

Speaker: And because warning signs are a part of this, the main goal is (45:58):
undefined

Speaker: that you never get to a moment where it is absolutely, as you (46:03):
undefined

Speaker: know, far off desirable, or you're, like, emotionally (46:08):
undefined

Speaker: unreachable because people are paying attention to your warning (46:12):
undefined

Speaker: signs, you know? (46:15):
undefined

Speaker: Safety plans are changeable, right? (46:16):
undefined

Speaker: The safety plan you have this month might not be the best. (46:18):
undefined

Speaker: You might develop new skills (46:23):
undefined

Speaker: that you want to put on it next (46:24):
undefined

Speaker: month, or you might have done (46:25):
undefined

Speaker: everything on your safety plan (46:28):
undefined

Speaker: and still had, a non-fatal but (46:29):
undefined

Speaker: serious attempt. (46:32):
undefined

Speaker: And that's something to update, right? (46:34):
undefined

Speaker: So it's just it's just another (46:36):
undefined

Speaker: way to have communication around (46:38):
undefined

Speaker: it that can be useful in scary (46:40):
undefined

Speaker: times. (46:44):
undefined

Speaker: That's great. (46:45):
undefined

Speaker: then the other steps that we want to encourage you to take is (46:45):
undefined

Speaker: kind of like what we're doing right now is by helping others (46:50):
undefined

Speaker: with your story and helping to increase awareness and access to (46:53):
undefined

Speaker: resources through connecting with your own story and sharing (46:58):
undefined

Speaker: it with other people to continue to reduce the stigma and help (47:03):
undefined

Speaker: all people get access to the resources and mental health care (47:06):
undefined

Speaker: that they need. (47:10):
undefined

Speaker: Yeah, so if you look around in your rural environment and feel (47:12):
undefined

Speaker: like nobody's talking about this and you wonder if you're alone. (47:17):
undefined

Speaker: maybe starting a Facebook group, right? (47:21):
undefined

Speaker: It doesn't have to be, um, physical locality. (47:24):
undefined

Speaker: Um, but there's also other things you can do. (47:28):
undefined

Speaker: And if you are, a suicide (47:31):
undefined

Speaker: survivor and, your story can be (47:33):
undefined

Speaker: really powerful and it can feel (47:35):
undefined

Speaker: really useful to give back to (47:38):
undefined

Speaker: organizations like Afsp, and to (47:40):
undefined

Speaker: even just go to the walk once a (47:43):
undefined

Speaker: year. (47:46):
undefined

Speaker: As somebody who struggled in the (47:46):
undefined

Speaker: past and is a survivor now, (47:48):
undefined

Speaker: those sorts of things, can I I'm (47:51):
undefined

Speaker: always so surprised by how many (47:53):
undefined

Speaker: people are there and how, people (47:56):
undefined

Speaker: really join around and everybody (47:59):
undefined

Speaker: looks at this at that specific (48:01):
undefined

Speaker: event. (48:03):
undefined

Speaker: Everybody. (48:04):
undefined

Speaker: We all wear beads that represent different things. (48:05):
undefined

Speaker: So you see that people have so many different complex (48:08):
undefined

Speaker: relationships with this experience, using your story (48:12):
undefined

Speaker: helps give you purpose, right? (48:17):
undefined

Speaker: To turn your pain into a sense of healing for others, can help (48:19):
undefined

Speaker: decrease the shame around it and be really inspirational. (48:24):
undefined

Speaker: And, instead of feeling like there was ever something wrong (48:27):
undefined

Speaker: with you or this is a part of your past, you would hide, using (48:31):
undefined

Speaker: it to talk to those who are going through it currently can (48:35):
undefined

Speaker: really give you a sense of purpose that can be very (48:38):
undefined

Speaker: beneficial in a sense of community as well. (48:41):
undefined

Speaker: yeah, I think that was a great point. (48:44):
undefined

Speaker: Anything else you want to go over and kind of steps that you (48:46):
undefined

Speaker: encourage people to take? (48:50):
undefined

Speaker: be compassionate to all, even if you don't agree with somebody's (48:52):
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Speaker: way of life. (48:56):
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Speaker: be nice to each other, please. (48:56):
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Speaker: make love, not war. (48:58):
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Speaker: All right, well, I think what we are all very excited to go over (49:01):
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Speaker: is neuro hacks. (49:06):
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Speaker: what can we actually do to (49:07):
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Speaker: rewire our brains to be more (49:11):
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Speaker: likely, to feel joy and to see (49:14):
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Speaker: the positives and to feel our (49:17):
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Speaker: community and to know we're (49:18):
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Speaker: important? (49:20):
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Speaker: Yes, Maddie, I would love to know how you went from being (49:21):
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Speaker: such a philosophical, existential kind of cynic about (49:27):
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Speaker: life to this life coach. (49:31):
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Speaker: You are just a ray of sunshine in my life. (49:34):
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Speaker: Like, What did you do to your brain? (49:37):
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Speaker: I want to know. (49:39):
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Speaker: It's probably really hard for (49:40):
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Speaker: people that don't know me to be (49:42):
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Speaker: like, what? (49:43):
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Speaker: You. (49:44):
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Speaker: You were that person Okay, I (49:45):
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Speaker: think there's there is a lot of (49:47):
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Speaker: things. (49:49):
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Speaker: I think one I shared more extensively in episode one last. (49:49):
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Speaker: I think losing almond and that actually happening was a very (49:54):
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Speaker: pivotal moment for me. (49:59):
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Speaker: And I want to be really clear that you do not have to allow (50:00):
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Speaker: that to happen to you. (50:03):
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Speaker: You do. (50:04):
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Speaker: It is a myth that you have to hit your bottom point or lose (50:05):
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Speaker: everything to change. (50:09):
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Speaker: And that's part of the power in me. (50:10):
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Speaker: Sharing my story right, is that I had to go through an (50:12):
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Speaker: incredibly traumatic and life altering event to have a wake up (50:17):
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Speaker: call and change, but that does not mean you do. (50:22):
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Speaker: so in terms of practical (50:24):
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Speaker: changes, I think what that event (50:25):
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Speaker: allowed me to do that I think is (50:28):
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Speaker: step one, in my experience and (50:31):
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Speaker: now as a life coach and a (50:33):
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Speaker: spiritual life coach and someone (50:34):
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Speaker: that actually helps people make (50:36):
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Speaker: new behaviors and I would have (50:37):
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Speaker: hated this for myself six years (50:39):
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Speaker: ago. (50:41):
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Speaker: Like younger me would have despised this. (50:41):
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Speaker: But it is true. (50:43):
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Speaker: The first thing you have to do is choose to believe that there (50:44):
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Speaker: is a different option. (50:47):
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Speaker: You have to choose that. (50:49):
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Speaker: You have to choose to believe you might be wrong. (50:51):
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Speaker: First of all, and if you can't choose that, you might be wrong, (50:53):
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Speaker: because I don't think I could have done that before. (50:58):
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Speaker: But I think what you can do is (51:00):
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Speaker: You choose to know that even if (51:03):
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Speaker: you're right. (51:06):
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Speaker: That part of your power, or part of your ability as a human is to (51:07):
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Speaker: choose to be delusional. (51:15):
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Speaker: And I think, especially if you (51:17):
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Speaker: are very depressed or very (51:19):
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Speaker: anxious, or you have an identity (51:20):
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Speaker: that is being suppressed by (51:23):
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Speaker: others or you're not believed, I (51:25):
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Speaker: think that actually can be the (51:27):
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Speaker: best place to start is to just (51:28):
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Speaker: choose to believe, even if you (51:30):
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Speaker: are right, That life is (51:32):
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Speaker: pointless and it will never get (51:34):
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Speaker: better. (51:35):
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Speaker: let's just pretend for a second. (51:36):
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Speaker: You are right about that. (51:38):
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Speaker: Just choose to be delusional (51:39):
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Speaker: that it's going to be okay (51:41):
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Speaker: anyway. (51:42):
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Speaker: I always say, if you're going to (51:43):
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Speaker: lie to yourself, why not make (51:45):
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Speaker: the lies something that help (51:48):
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Speaker: you? (51:50):
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Speaker: So like if you're going to if if your perception is just that, (51:51):
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Speaker: your perception and opinion and, it is only as close to reality (51:55):
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Speaker: as humanly possible, which is not super possible. (52:01):
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Speaker: If that is the case, then you (52:06):
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Speaker: know, you know what it's like to (52:08):
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Speaker: actively perceive things in a (52:11):
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Speaker: negative way. (52:13):
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Speaker: It is harmful. (52:14):
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Speaker: Hence the self harm. (52:16):
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Speaker: What if you lied to yourself that it it it's all fine. (52:18):
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Speaker: It's all going to work out. (52:22):
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Speaker: And, I am loved and people want me around. (52:23):
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Speaker: what if you just yes, light in ways that changed your mindset. (52:27):
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Speaker: Not because you believe them, but because what you're doing (52:33):
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Speaker: right now isn't working? (52:37):
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Speaker: Yeah, and I think that's such a good point is like, I think (52:39):
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Speaker: Foundation one, at least for me, in my experience, foundation one (52:42):
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Speaker: is choosing to believe that a different like something else (52:46):
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Speaker: could happen, right? (52:51):
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Speaker: But then the action behind that is exactly what you were saying. (52:52):
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Speaker: Kat is like, okay, so how do you do that? (52:55):
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Speaker: So the first thing is you can't (52:58):
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Speaker: hear anybody's thoughts right (53:00):
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Speaker: now. (53:02):
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Speaker: You're probably assuming everyone thinks badly of you, (53:02):
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Speaker: and that could be true. (53:05):
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Speaker: But what we're going to start (53:07):
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Speaker: doing is we're going to pretend (53:08):
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Speaker: like everything they say is so (53:09):
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Speaker: great. (53:11):
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Speaker: They think that you are the best thing that's ever happened. (53:11):
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Speaker: They think you are so funny and so smart. (53:14):
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Speaker: You're going to start choosing to believe the best thing, (53:16):
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Speaker: especially in the stuff you can't have proof of either way. (53:20):
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Speaker: Like you can't have proof that someone was looking at you in a (53:22):
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Speaker: positive or negative way. (53:25):
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Speaker: You can't have proof of what they're actually believing about (53:26):
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Speaker: you, or what they're saying to people behind your back. (53:28):
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Speaker: So you're going to start (53:30):
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Speaker: choosing to believe that they (53:31):
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Speaker: are positive. (53:32):
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Speaker: And when they look at you, they don't see what you see. (53:33):
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Speaker: Just like when you look at them, (53:37):
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Speaker: you don't see all their (53:39):
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Speaker: insecurities. (53:40):
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Speaker: So yes, step one is choosing to believe that things. (53:40):
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Speaker: The reality might be different than what you think it is. (53:44):
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Speaker: believing that people are thinking positively of you. (53:47):
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Speaker: Expecting the best in a situation. (53:51):
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Speaker: And then the next step, which will be part of the things that (53:54):
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Speaker: will be covered in the safety plan template, is figuring out (53:57):
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Speaker: activities or hobbies you can do that actually make you excited (54:02):
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Speaker: about being alive. (54:07):
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Speaker: I feel like that sounds. (54:09):
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Speaker: So it sounds. (54:10):
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Speaker: I get it because I know whenever (54:11):
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Speaker: this was first given to me and I (54:13):
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Speaker: had very intense depression and (54:15):
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Speaker: I was like, no, that's so (54:18):
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Speaker: stupid. (54:19):
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Speaker: Literally some of the things on (54:20):
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Speaker: my list that I still go back to (54:22):
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Speaker: today was to sit down and do my (54:23):
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Speaker: makeup, literally do my makeup, (54:25):
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Speaker: cuddle with my dog stacks, even, (54:27):
undefined

Speaker: like writing or even watching (54:29):
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Speaker: Netflix and watching a funny (54:31):
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Speaker: movie. (54:32):
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Speaker: And I even, had certain movies down that always make me laugh, (54:33):
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Speaker: like The Proposal. (54:36):
undefined

Speaker: And those are things that sound so simple, and especially if you (54:37):
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Speaker: don't have depression, that might sound really dumb. (54:40):
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Speaker: why do you need a list to tell you to, watch a funny movie? (54:42):
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Speaker: But to Kat's point, whenever you're in those moments, or even (54:45):
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Speaker: like longer term anxiety and depression, your brain is not (54:49):
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Speaker: functioning in a way that's thinking about stuff rationally (54:52):
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Speaker: or making choices. (54:55):
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Speaker: You're just thinking about how (54:56):
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Speaker: sad you are and how much you're (54:57):
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Speaker: tired and you want to sleep, and (54:59):
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Speaker: that you're wrong and no one (55:00):
undefined

Speaker: likes you. (55:01):
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Speaker: So if you have that list and you can connect with activities that (55:02):
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Speaker: make you feel happy, even if they seem really silly or (55:05):
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Speaker: mundane, just starting to do those every single day. (55:07):
undefined

Speaker: So like Maddie was saying, (55:11):
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Speaker: habits that increase my joy, but (55:12):
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Speaker: also other things that help me (55:14):
undefined

Speaker: produce serotonin. (55:16):
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Speaker: for me, I really need to feel like I'm nourishing my body and (55:17):
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Speaker: food is medicine and, I show myself love and make myself feel (55:25):
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Speaker: important and I give a shit about myself But I treat myself (55:31):
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Speaker: like a houseplant. (55:35):
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Speaker: I make sure I get enough water and enough sunshine in a day. (55:36):
undefined

Speaker: And I know that, Maddie said, if (55:40):
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Speaker: you're not depressed, you're (55:42):
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Speaker: like, wow, this is just how to (55:43):
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Speaker: live. (55:45):
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Speaker: But I think that a lot of people (55:45):
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Speaker: can relate to this because I see (55:46):
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Speaker: it everywhere where people are (55:48):
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Speaker: like, did you know you need (55:50):
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Speaker: fifteen minutes of sunshine in (55:51):
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Speaker: the morning, rather than fifteen (55:53):
undefined

Speaker: minutes of blue light and it's (55:54):
undefined

Speaker: true. (55:56):
undefined

Speaker: things that increase your serotonin production are omega (55:57):
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Speaker: three fatty acids. (56:01):
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Speaker: you should be eating fats, healthy fats, to increase joy (56:02):
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Speaker: like that is just brain science. (56:06):
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Speaker: fish oil pills. (56:08):
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Speaker: If you don't eat fish, eggs have good fats. (56:09):
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Speaker: Nuts have good fats. (56:14):
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Speaker: I mean, we'll do a whole other thing on, diet. (56:16):
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Speaker: And there are so many good books (56:18):
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Speaker: on what you can eat based off of (56:21):
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Speaker: certain mental health, diagnoses (56:23):
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Speaker: that help with your brain (56:25):
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Speaker: chemistry. (56:27):
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Speaker: to your point, predominantly women eating higher fat diets is (56:28):
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Speaker: really important for emotional regulation, specifically in (56:32):
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Speaker: menstruating age women. (56:36):
undefined

Speaker: Your brain is made of healthy (56:38):
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Speaker: fat like it is made of healthy (56:40):
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Speaker: fat. (56:42):
undefined

Speaker: I remember some of my first years, getting sober or trying (56:43):
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Speaker: to get happy. (56:48):
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Speaker: me and Maddie do a lot of, inner child work. (56:49):
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Speaker: So I learned how to hula hoop and learned how to cartwheel (56:51):
undefined

Speaker: and, like, Healing is cringey. (56:55):
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Speaker: As somebody who was so self conscious about caring about (56:58):
undefined

Speaker: anything and made my entire personality refusing to care, (57:02):
undefined

Speaker: healing is so it can be cringey. (57:06):
undefined

Speaker: But you have to lean into that and find your delight. (57:09):
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Speaker: microdose delight. (57:13):
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Speaker: light. (57:15):
undefined

Speaker: and I think if you to your point, if like, you can just sit (57:15):
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Speaker: down and really think about yourself when you were five to (57:19):
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Speaker: eight and what did you lose all your time doing? (57:23):
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Speaker: What made you so happy? (57:26):
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Speaker: Right. (57:29):
undefined

Speaker: if you have trouble thinking about that from happy memories, (57:30):
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Speaker: what did your parents ground you from that can help you to (57:32):
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Speaker: remember what actually brought you, brought you joy and then (57:35):
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Speaker: incorporating that into your life as an adult now? (57:38):
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undefined

Speaker: And even if it's, watching a comedian, but just anything that (57:42):
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Speaker: even if it's fake, smiling at yourself in the mirror, that (57:48):
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Speaker: those muscle movements actually tell your brain to be happy. (57:52):
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Speaker: So there are things like that, Well, there was one thing I (57:56):
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Speaker: wanted to say that because I agree with you that nutrition (57:59):
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Speaker: and inner child playing on stuff that is, so important. (58:04):
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Speaker: But when I'm thinking about me six years ago, when literally (58:07):
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Speaker: all I could think about was being dead all the time. (58:11):
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Speaker: That feels really like a lot. (58:14):
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Speaker: And so that's and living with (58:16):
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Speaker: someone we don't we won't go (58:18):
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Speaker: into this. (58:20):
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Speaker: But the last couple years I've (58:20):
undefined

Speaker: lived with someone that was (58:21):
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Speaker: still in the middle of, very, (58:23):
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Speaker: very extreme depression, among (58:24):
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Speaker: other things. (58:28):
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Speaker: I think when you start thinking food and sunshine and inner (58:29):
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Speaker: child work and therapy, they can start to feel like, oh, I'm (58:34):
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Speaker: still not good enough because I can't do all of those things. (58:37):
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Speaker: And so and those are very important. (58:40):
undefined

Speaker: But I think that's step ten. (58:42):
undefined

Speaker: And so if right now, literally all you can do is color in a (58:44):
undefined

Speaker: coloring book while you're watching TV, because otherwise (58:50):
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Speaker: you're just going to scroll on your phone mindlessly on TikTok. (58:54):
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Speaker: you can start with the little (58:57):
undefined

Speaker: things like the nutrition and (58:58):
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Speaker: the going outside and getting (59:00):
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Speaker: more water. (59:01):
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Speaker: Those things are so important. (59:02):
undefined

Speaker: I'm not underscoring how important those are. (59:04):
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Speaker: You will never be able to (59:06):
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Speaker: maintain the happiness that you (59:07):
undefined

Speaker: find if you can't change your (59:09):
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Speaker: lifestyle, right? (59:11):
undefined

Speaker: Sleeping more, getting more (59:12):
undefined

Speaker: water, reducing or hopefully (59:13):
undefined

Speaker: eliminating alcohol. (59:16):
undefined

Speaker: these things are dramatically important. (59:18):
undefined

Speaker: And if you can't do that right now, I think the bigger thing is (59:21):
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Speaker: to try to find smaller tweaks where you're doing less. (59:24):
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undefined

Speaker: Right. (59:29):
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Speaker: It's more important to like, eat (59:29):
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Speaker: chips than to, not eat at all in (59:31):
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Speaker: my opinion. (59:34):
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Speaker: Oh, absolutely. (59:35):
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Speaker: No. You are that clear? (59:36):
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undefined

Speaker: No, that is a very good and clear. (59:39):
undefined

Speaker: That's a very useful and effective clarification. (59:43):
undefined

Speaker: yeah, we don't want to be overwhelming. (59:47):
undefined

Speaker: There is no perfect way to heal. (59:49):
undefined

Speaker: I think everybody's journey looks differently. (59:52):
undefined

Speaker: if there is one small bio hack you can do to, start changing (59:55):
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Speaker: your thinking, even if that is, just texting somebody every day, (01:00:02):
undefined

Speaker: or not every day, but deciding to reach out to somebody. (01:00:09):
undefined

Speaker: When you think of them or, spreading love, I guess I was (01:00:13):
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Speaker: just thinking of, ways to produce serotonin specifically. (01:00:16):
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Speaker: Everything you said is so good. (01:00:21):
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Speaker: I just also know I couldn't that it's overwhelming. (01:00:23):
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Speaker: Yeah, well, it's not. (01:00:27):
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Speaker: I don't even know. (01:00:28):
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Speaker: I don't think it is overwhelming. (01:00:29):
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Speaker: Objectively, I just know that (01:00:31):
undefined

Speaker: when I was there in that, I (01:00:33):
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Speaker: couldn't. (01:00:36):
undefined

Speaker: I couldn't do that. (01:00:37):
undefined

Speaker: It's like, if you cannot be on (01:00:38):
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Speaker: your phone for thirty minutes to (01:00:39):
undefined

Speaker: an hour when you wake up and you (01:00:40):
undefined

Speaker: can go outside and you can delay (01:00:42):
undefined

Speaker: caffeine intake and you can (01:00:44):
undefined

Speaker: drink water all day, those alone (01:00:45):
undefined

Speaker: are going to give you so much (01:00:48):
undefined

Speaker: better habits. (01:00:49):
undefined

Speaker: But in the feelings, right? (01:00:50):
undefined

Speaker: But for right now, if all you can do is maybe think of one (01:00:52):
undefined

Speaker: person in your life that you like and tell them something you (01:00:57):
undefined

Speaker: like about them. (01:01:00):
undefined

Speaker: Right. (01:01:01):
undefined

Speaker: Or write down something that you're grateful for every day in (01:01:01):
undefined

Speaker: a journal or on your notes app. (01:01:05):
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Speaker: we can start really, really (01:01:06):
undefined

Speaker: small and I promise those things (01:01:08):
undefined

Speaker: might seem useless and silly in (01:01:09):
undefined

Speaker: the beginning. (01:01:11):
undefined

Speaker: But you will notice, like when (01:01:12):
undefined

Speaker: Kat, you were saying, what did I (01:01:13):
undefined

Speaker: do? (01:01:14):
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Speaker: those are the things I did. (01:01:14):
undefined

Speaker: Mhm. (01:01:16):
undefined

Speaker: Like now, right? (01:01:17):
undefined

Speaker: It's like I meditate every day (01:01:18):
undefined

Speaker: and I do dance every day, and I (01:01:19):
undefined

Speaker: journal and do breathwork and, (01:01:21):
undefined

Speaker: do all this water and nutrition (01:01:24):
undefined

Speaker: stuff. (01:01:25):
undefined

Speaker: But like, that was years for me. (01:01:26):
undefined

Speaker: And the first step was trying to (01:01:28):
undefined

Speaker: answer my friends when they (01:01:30):
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Speaker: texted me. (01:01:31):
undefined

Speaker: Everybody's going to look a little bit different because (01:01:32):
undefined

Speaker: socially I probably would have not gone the social route. (01:01:34):
undefined

Speaker: as far as increasing serotonin and finding joy and rewiring (01:01:38):
undefined

Speaker: your brain goes, finding one thing you can be consistent with (01:01:43):
undefined

Speaker: whatever that is for you personally, and making it (01:01:48):
undefined

Speaker: something positive in your life, And it doesn't have to be the (01:01:53):
undefined

Speaker: same thing every day. (01:01:56):
undefined

Speaker: if you struggle with consistency, the thing is, is to (01:01:57):
undefined

Speaker: just stop beating yourself up. (01:02:01):
undefined

Speaker: show yourself that you care in whatever way that is. (01:02:05):
undefined

Speaker: If that is eating because you (01:02:10):
undefined

Speaker: haven't been eating, a baths (01:02:11):
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Speaker: with candles. (01:02:13):
undefined

Speaker: Yeah. (01:02:15):
undefined

Speaker: If that is just leaving your room to go to the bathroom, I (01:02:15):
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Speaker: don't know, you could be peeing in a jug this whole time. (01:02:20):
undefined

Speaker: Whatever it is, wherever you are, just your baby step. (01:02:22):
undefined

Speaker: Not ours or somebody else's, or, (01:02:27):
undefined

Speaker: you know, all the all the steps (01:02:30):
undefined

Speaker: at once. (01:02:32):
undefined

Speaker: That's such a good point. (01:02:33):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: Like he steps in. (01:02:35):
undefined

Speaker: Expected to take a long time. (01:02:36):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: And what changes is compassion for yourself, right? (01:02:39):
undefined

Speaker: All right. (01:02:45):
undefined

Speaker: I am really curious, Matty, about ways biohacks, neuro (01:02:46):
undefined

Speaker: hacks, whatever ways to rewire. (01:02:51):
undefined

Speaker: Maybe. (01:02:56):
undefined

Speaker: I know this one's going to be a (01:02:57):
undefined

Speaker: hard one for you with ADHD and (01:02:58):
undefined

Speaker: needing medication. (01:03:00):
undefined

Speaker: Oh, that means I have. (01:03:01):
undefined

Speaker: I have extra good answers. (01:03:03):
undefined

Speaker: If you're going to ask me about executive functioning and (01:03:05):
undefined

Speaker: decreasing impulsivity, yes. (01:03:07):
undefined

Speaker: But real quick, before we jump away from serotonin, I will tell (01:03:09):
undefined

Speaker: you that in my biggest depressive suicidal spurt, other (01:03:14):
undefined

Speaker: than counseling, the one thing I did, the one thing I did was I (01:03:20):
undefined

Speaker: listened to a professor. (01:03:27):
undefined

Speaker: And I got on antidepressant medication and there is no shame (01:03:29):
undefined

Speaker: in it and it doesn't matter. (01:03:34):
undefined

Speaker: My mom was on it and I've been on and off of it. (01:03:36):
undefined

Speaker: everybody's road to medication is different. (01:03:40):
undefined

Speaker: But if there is one thing you (01:03:43):
undefined

Speaker: can do, you can reach out to (01:03:45):
undefined

Speaker: your PCP. (01:03:46):
undefined

Speaker: You don't even have to get on your computer to get yourself an (01:03:47):
undefined

Speaker: SSRI, if that is what you need to get out of peeing in the jug (01:03:51):
undefined

Speaker: in your room, or whatever dark hole you're in and whatever (01:03:56):
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Speaker: you're doing there. (01:03:59):
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Speaker: I will not underscore I would have died without that (01:04:01):
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Speaker: medication at that time, and that medication helped me be (01:04:05):
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Speaker: able to crawl out of my hole and make it to class or whatever (01:04:09):
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Speaker: obligation I had. (01:04:14):
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Speaker: It made those habits of increasing joy doable for you. (01:04:15):
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Speaker: Yes, that is such a good point. (01:04:20):
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Speaker: I'm actually so, so so glad you said that. (01:04:22):
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Speaker: Especially because at least in my social media, I am seeing a (01:04:25):
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Speaker: resurgence of talking negatively about SSRI specifically. (01:04:29):
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Speaker: And I want to also put in very (01:04:36):
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Speaker: quickly same because I was very (01:04:39):
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Speaker: resistant to taking (01:04:43):
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Speaker: antidepressants. (01:04:45):
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Speaker: That's a story for an SSRI episode. (01:04:47):
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Speaker: But it changed my life. (01:04:50):
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Speaker: I was having debilitating panic (01:04:52):
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Speaker: attacks multiple times a day and (01:04:54):
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Speaker: still was refusing to take (01:04:57):
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Speaker: medication. (01:04:59):
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Speaker: And basically, I was trying to (01:05:00):
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Speaker: get treatment for allergies, and (01:05:02):
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Speaker: I had such a bad panic attack in (01:05:03):
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Speaker: the doctor's office that the (01:05:04):
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Speaker: doctor looked at me and said, (01:05:06):
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Speaker: life does not have to be this (01:05:07):
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Speaker: hard. (01:05:08):
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Speaker: Also, I cannot treat you for (01:05:09):
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Speaker: allergies until you get this (01:05:11):
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Speaker: panic under control, because I (01:05:12):
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Speaker: won't be able to tell if your (01:05:14):
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Speaker: body is having an allergic (01:05:15):
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Speaker: reaction and you're going to (01:05:17):
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Speaker: die, or if you're having a panic (01:05:18):
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Speaker: attack, so I can't treat you (01:05:19):
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Speaker: until you get this under (01:05:21):
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Speaker: control. (01:05:21):
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Speaker: But that's what forced me to finally go. (01:05:22):
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Speaker: And anyway, it did change my life and I agree with you that (01:05:24):
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Speaker: because like I had this voice in my head, even from my own, like (01:05:27):
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Speaker: neuroscience education, that SSRIs were not actually that (01:05:30):
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Speaker: effective for the majority of people unless you had, uh, like (01:05:33):
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Speaker: basically severe depression and, um, yeah, so severe depression. (01:05:38):
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Speaker: But it wasn't more helpful than a placebo because there is some (01:05:46):
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Speaker: research around that. (01:05:49):
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Speaker: And I'm not I'm not going to (01:05:50):
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Speaker: we're not going to get into that (01:05:52):
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Speaker: in this episode, but don't let (01:05:53):
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Speaker: the current research coming out (01:05:55):
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Speaker: or what people are talking about (01:05:57):
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Speaker: or old try it for yourself (01:05:58):
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Speaker: first. (01:05:59):
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Speaker: Be patient. (01:06:00):
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Speaker: Not every medication responds in the same way. (01:06:01):
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Speaker: You might have to try different ones. (01:06:03):
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Speaker: You might have to try around the dose. (01:06:05):
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Speaker: The thing is, we do not fully (01:06:07):
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Speaker: understand the neuro mechanisms (01:06:08):
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Speaker: of why they work, and that is (01:06:11):
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Speaker: true. (01:06:13):
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Speaker: But it is also true that they do work. (01:06:14):
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Speaker: So yeah, so increasing serotonin (01:06:17):
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Speaker: production through diet, is one (01:06:19):
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Speaker: thing. (01:06:22):
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Speaker: however, how SSRIs work is they block a reuptake inhibitor and (01:06:23):
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Speaker: create allow the serotonin to stay in your synapse for longer. (01:06:27):
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Speaker: Which means that if you're depressed, let's say, and we (01:06:32):
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Speaker: don't necessarily, there's still new research weight models being (01:06:36):
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Speaker: debunked, though I know that's what I was just. (01:06:41):
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Speaker: So there's still research coming out about the chemical imbalance (01:06:44):
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Speaker: theory and how that it's wrong. (01:06:49):
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Speaker: Like we said, neuroscience is a very, very new field okay? (01:06:51):
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Speaker: Things are changing all the time. (01:06:56):
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Speaker: However, we're talking about (01:06:58):
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Speaker: increasing serotonin production (01:07:00):
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Speaker: through diet. (01:07:03):
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Speaker: We can also talk about juicing those little serotonin molecules (01:07:03):
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Speaker: for all they're worth. (01:07:08):
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Speaker: By blocking your reuptake inhibitors. (01:07:09):
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Speaker: There are life experiences that say that for some people, me (01:07:12):
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Speaker: being one, Mads being another. (01:07:18):
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Speaker: For some people, when you can't access better behaviors, when (01:07:20):
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Speaker: you can't access new habits, that is what medication is for. (01:07:24):
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Speaker: Now, there is a lot of fear (01:07:27):
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Speaker: around long term use of (01:07:29):
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Speaker: medication and what it's for, (01:07:32):
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Speaker: and I totally understand and (01:07:34):
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Speaker: hear that. (01:07:35):
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Speaker: and I'm not a psychiatrist. (01:07:36):
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Speaker: However, my personal experience is I would not have been able to (01:07:38):
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Speaker: look at myself in the mirror. (01:07:43):
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Speaker: I couldn't go to class. (01:07:44):
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Speaker: I couldn't brush my hair, I wasn't showering, I wasn't using (01:07:45):
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Speaker: deodorant, I wasn't brushing my teeth, I wasn't being I wasn't (01:07:48):
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Speaker: taking care of my body at all. (01:07:52):
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Speaker: And I had no desire to. (01:07:53):
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Speaker: And I had a professor look me in (01:07:55):
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Speaker: the eyes and said, there is no (01:07:58):
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Speaker: shame. (01:08:00):
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Speaker: You are no less intelligent. (01:08:01):
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Speaker: You are no less of a human being. (01:08:02):
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Speaker: If you need these. (01:08:04):
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Speaker: I use them still every day. (01:08:05):
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Speaker: And he was a neuroscience (01:08:07):
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Speaker: professor that I highly looked (01:08:09):
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Speaker: up to. (01:08:10):
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Speaker: And he said, just think about it. (01:08:11):
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Speaker: And I was like, oh, it was like all I needed was the permission. (01:08:15):
undefined

Speaker: And I got on them and I was able to access behaviors. (01:08:18):
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Speaker: And today I am off of them, which is a little bit TMI. (01:08:23):
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Speaker: whatever your goal is. (01:08:27):
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Speaker: But you know what? (01:08:28):
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Speaker: I actually think it's important (01:08:28):
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Speaker: to share because I am off them (01:08:30):
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Speaker: too. (01:08:31):
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Speaker: And I think that is one of the the big rhetoric going around (01:08:32):
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Speaker: right now is that you'll never be able to get off of them. (01:08:36):
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Speaker: And like as soon as you get off (01:08:39):
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Speaker: of them, everything will go (01:08:40):
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Speaker: back. (01:08:41):
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Speaker: And so I think it's actually equally important for us to say, (01:08:42):
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Speaker: yes, I started them, it gave me access to these behaviors and (01:08:45):
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Speaker: like, look at us. (01:08:48):
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Speaker: These behaviors have integrated into our lives. (01:08:49):
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Speaker: We're now functioning overall (01:08:52):
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Speaker: happy and also off of these (01:08:54):
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Speaker: medications. (01:08:57):
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Speaker: Yes, the medications. (01:08:59):
undefined

Speaker: And that is not true for everybody. (01:09:01):
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Speaker: I don't want to shame anybody who is still on medication and (01:09:03):
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Speaker: still needs medication. (01:09:07):
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Speaker: I'm not denying whatever the powers that may be, okay. (01:09:08):
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Speaker: I am just saying that I was on them. (01:09:13):
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Speaker: I needed them at that time. (01:09:15):
undefined

Speaker: They helped access behaviors for me. (01:09:17):
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Speaker: I was lucky enough to be able to get off of them. (01:09:19):
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Speaker: I know some people who aren't. (01:09:21):
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Speaker: Some people who are. (01:09:23):
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Speaker: Anyways, something to be (01:09:24):
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Speaker: considered when talking about (01:09:26):
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Speaker: suicidality and major depressive (01:09:29):
undefined

Speaker: disorders or depressive (01:09:32):
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Speaker: episodes. (01:09:34):
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Speaker: this is a tool that is out there that I used. (01:09:35):
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Speaker: There is no shame in it. (01:09:38):
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Speaker: and it could help. (01:09:40):
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Speaker: I agree one hundred percent (01:09:42):
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Speaker: because at least in my (01:09:43):
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Speaker: experience, it's like it just (01:09:44):
undefined

Speaker: never mind. (01:09:47):
undefined

Speaker: That's not relevant right now. (01:09:47):
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Speaker: I am really glad you brought (01:09:48):
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Speaker: that up because I think it's (01:09:49):
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Speaker: really important. (01:09:50):
undefined

Speaker: let's talk about executive functioning and decreasing (01:09:52):
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Speaker: impulsivity because like we talked about, especially last (01:09:55):
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Speaker: episode, these are things that are highly linked to suicidal (01:09:59):
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Speaker: ideation and suicide attempts. (01:10:03):
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Speaker: And as someone probably linked to. (01:10:07):
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Speaker: Oh, I'm so sorry. (01:10:09):
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Speaker: It's highly linked to attempts more than ideation. (01:10:10):
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Speaker: So, like, the likelihood of (01:10:14):
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Speaker: somebody attempting is based off (01:10:16):
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Speaker: of. (01:10:19):
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Speaker: Rather than just having these, (01:10:19):
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Speaker: uh, feelings and thoughts and (01:10:21):
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Speaker: emotions. (01:10:23):
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Speaker: The attempts themselves are (01:10:24):
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Speaker: linked to the working memory and (01:10:26):
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Speaker: executive function and (01:10:27):
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Speaker: impulsivity. (01:10:28):
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Speaker: Okay. (01:10:29):
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Speaker: No, that's really good. (01:10:30):
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Speaker: You clarified that. (01:10:31):
undefined

Speaker: that's also just shows my working memory issues. (01:10:33):
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Speaker: Oh, yes. (01:10:36):
undefined

Speaker: But these are things that actually affect me quite a bit. (01:10:37):
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Speaker: As someone that has ADHD and has (01:10:41):
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Speaker: been working with it my whole (01:10:47):
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Speaker: life. (01:10:48):
undefined

Speaker: especially in the last five years as I've become a healthier (01:10:49):
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Speaker: version of me and not relying on negative coping skills as much. (01:10:53):
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Speaker: one to continue the medication conversation. (01:10:58):
undefined

Speaker: It this is obviously something that we cannot tell you to do. (01:11:02):
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Speaker: This is something that needs to be talked about with, you know, (01:11:05):
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Speaker: a good psychiatrist. (01:11:09):
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Speaker: And but even that is like a (01:11:11):
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Speaker: whole episode, I think like how (01:11:13):
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Speaker: to find a good psychiatrist that (01:11:14):
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Speaker: doesn't belittle you or make you (01:11:16):
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Speaker: feel bad. (01:11:17):
undefined

Speaker: so this is my PSA to you, as you're a new friend, that if you (01:11:18):
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Speaker: find a psychiatrist and especially you are a woman, and (01:11:22):
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Speaker: you are likely to more likely to be dismissed, right. (01:11:27):
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Speaker: That you don't take the first opinion seriously because they (01:11:31):
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Speaker: can be wrong. (01:11:35):
undefined

Speaker: So if you have an internal experience that's a doctor is (01:11:35):
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Speaker: telling you is wrong. (01:11:39):
undefined

Speaker: You need to believe yourself first and keep talking to (01:11:40):
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Speaker: different doctors until somebody believes you and listens to you. (01:11:43):
undefined

Speaker: And that goes for all things. (01:11:47):
undefined

Speaker: Not just ADHD, not just depression. (01:11:48):
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Speaker: That's literally everything. (01:11:50):
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Speaker: I think that's actually probably (01:11:52):
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Speaker: the underlying core belief of (01:11:54):
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Speaker: this podcast for me, and that is (01:11:55):
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Speaker: believing yourself over other (01:11:57):
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Speaker: people first, not, you know, not (01:11:58):
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Speaker: into that could get dangerous, (01:12:02):
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Speaker: but you know what I mean, within (01:12:03):
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Speaker: reason. (01:12:04):
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Speaker: And so but in terms of what can (01:12:05):
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Speaker: actually change your executive (01:12:07):
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Speaker: functioning, decrease (01:12:10):
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Speaker: impulsivity and improve your (01:12:11):
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Speaker: working memory besides just (01:12:12):
undefined

Speaker: medication one, because that is (01:12:14):
undefined

Speaker: not for everybody and or just to (01:12:16):
undefined

Speaker: support it. (01:12:19):
undefined

Speaker: I think the biggest things that (01:12:20):
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Speaker: helped me is definitely (01:12:21):
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Speaker: meditation. (01:12:22):
undefined

Speaker: And there are actually different types of meditation. (01:12:23):
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Speaker: I am now a fully certified as a meditation and breathwork (01:12:26):
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Speaker: facilitator and five hundred hour yoga teacher. (01:12:32):
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Speaker: So I've done pretty in-depth studying in this, and I think (01:12:35):
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Speaker: one thing that's really important to say is that (01:12:39):
undefined

Speaker: meditation is kind of a buzzword now, but there are many (01:12:41):
undefined

Speaker: different types of meditation, and all meditation is not equal. (01:12:45):
undefined

Speaker: So don't just type in meditation (01:12:48):
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Speaker: and some random app or YouTube (01:12:51):
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Speaker: like you need to look for (01:12:53):
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Speaker: meditation specifically for (01:12:54):
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Speaker: building attention or (01:12:56):
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Speaker: specifically for Anxiety or (01:12:57):
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Speaker: depression. (01:13:00):
undefined

Speaker: Make sure it's a reliable source. (01:13:01):
undefined

Speaker: But I remember one of the most important things in my yoga (01:13:02):
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Speaker: teacher training was that there were actually times when I was (01:13:05):
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Speaker: learning a certain meditation or a certain type of breathwork and (01:13:09):
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Speaker: it would say, do not use this in someone that's depressed. (01:13:12):
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Speaker: Do not use this in someone that's anxious, because it can (01:13:16):
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Speaker: actually make you more depressed or more anxious if you're doing (01:13:18):
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Speaker: the wrong types. (01:13:21):
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Speaker: So I did want to give that clarifying nudge really fast. (01:13:22):
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Speaker: But outside of that, meditation (01:13:25):
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Speaker: and breathwork has been the game (01:13:27):
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Speaker: changer for me, for increasing (01:13:28):
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Speaker: attention and memory and (01:13:31):
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Speaker: decreasing impulsivity. (01:13:33):
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Speaker: And the most basic one you can (01:13:34):
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Speaker: do is called focused attention (01:13:36):
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undefined

Speaker: It's the OG when you think of (01:13:39):
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Speaker: meditation and looking at a (01:13:41):
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Speaker: candle, so you literally can (01:13:42):
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Speaker: just light a candle or put one (01:13:44):
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Speaker: on YouTube. (01:13:47):
undefined

Speaker: You don't have to do anything fancy. (01:13:49):
undefined

Speaker: You literally just need to soften your gaze and look at (01:13:50):
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Speaker: this candle for as long as you can without blinking every day. (01:13:54):
undefined

Speaker: And just like, increase the time every day. (01:13:57):
undefined

Speaker: And that alone can literally rewire your brain, strengthen (01:13:59):
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Speaker: your prefrontal cortex, make you better at attention and memory. (01:14:03):
undefined

Speaker: And there has been research that (01:14:08):
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Speaker: as little as literally like (01:14:10):
undefined

Speaker: seven minutes a week can (01:14:11):
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Speaker: actually increase your attention (01:14:13):
undefined

Speaker: span. (01:14:15):
undefined

Speaker: So literally just do one minute a day to start. (01:14:15):
undefined

Speaker: So that's incredible. (01:14:19):
undefined

Speaker: I know it's crazy. (01:14:20):
undefined

Speaker: It really is cool. (01:14:21):
undefined

Speaker: And it really did change my life. (01:14:22):
undefined

Speaker: I mean that's why I teach it now. (01:14:23):
undefined

Speaker: And you know, you guys are just getting to know me. (01:14:25):
undefined

Speaker: But you can tell I have a lot of energy. (01:14:28):
undefined

Speaker: So whenever people meet me, (01:14:29):
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Speaker: they're like, you teach yoga and (01:14:31):
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undefined

Speaker: yeah, because I need it the most. (01:14:33):
undefined

Speaker: So this is just my PSA to you (01:14:35):
undefined

Speaker: that if you have a lot of energy (01:14:37):
undefined

Speaker: and a wild attention span and (01:14:40):
undefined

Speaker: you've tried to meditate a bunch (01:14:42):
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Speaker: of times and you shut your eyes (01:14:43):
undefined

Speaker: and then all you can think about (01:14:45):
undefined

Speaker: is like leaping elephants and (01:14:47):
undefined

Speaker: the fifty things you didn't do (01:14:50):
undefined

Speaker: yet. (01:14:51):
undefined

Speaker: And you're fidgeting your fingers and your legs and you're (01:14:51):
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Speaker: thinking, I can't meditate. (01:14:54):
undefined

Speaker: This is your, I don't know. (01:14:55):
undefined

Speaker: Wait, just just try different things. (01:14:57):
undefined

Speaker: Try different kinds until you find something. (01:14:59):
undefined

Speaker: You can also just dance. (01:15:01):
undefined

Speaker: Do you have anything you want to add to building? (01:15:02):
undefined

Speaker: I'd say meditation is really my biggest one, but I mean, even (01:15:05):
undefined

Speaker: doing, Sudoku or chess or any kind of, problem solving things. (01:15:08):
undefined

Speaker: That's something I've personally (01:15:12):
undefined

Speaker: been doing this year, is (01:15:14):
undefined

Speaker: learning how to play chess, (01:15:16):
undefined

Speaker: Because it makes me really (01:15:17):
undefined

Speaker: bored. (01:15:18):
undefined

Speaker: I like fast paced games. (01:15:19):
undefined

Speaker: I don't like strategic, long term thinking games. (01:15:20):
undefined

Speaker: And so I've really been forcing myself to practice for trying to (01:15:23):
undefined

Speaker: make it fun on Duolingo. (01:15:27):
undefined

Speaker: So I think things that you're interested in and force you to (01:15:28):
undefined

Speaker: work on those skills, which sounds like no duh. (01:15:32):
undefined

Speaker: But to actually do them is the challenge. (01:15:35):
undefined

Speaker: Yeah, I think there was a lot of things you touched on that I (01:15:38):
undefined

Speaker: didn't even know about. (01:15:42):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: I don't meditation changes your whole brain. (01:15:45):
undefined

Speaker: It actually changes physical structures of your brain. (01:15:49):
undefined

Speaker: Like, I mean, literally, it literally changes your brain. (01:15:53):
undefined

Speaker: Yeah, I am heavily supportive of meditation as well. (01:15:57):
undefined

Speaker: I meditate. (01:16:01):
undefined

Speaker: How do I increase executive (01:16:02):
undefined

Speaker: functioning, decrease (01:16:03):
undefined

Speaker: impulsivity, and improve my (01:16:04):
undefined

Speaker: working memory? (01:16:06):
undefined

Speaker: I'm going to be honest. (01:16:07):
undefined

Speaker: I just try to do old fashioned things. (01:16:09):
undefined

Katrina Bras: Some of that includes, you know, forest bathing. (01:16:12):
undefined

Katrina Bras: I know that there's a lot of research recently coming out (01:16:17):
undefined

Katrina Bras: about how just being in nature can positively affect, your (01:16:20):
undefined

Katrina Bras: prefrontal cortex, the area that deals with executive (01:16:25):
undefined

Katrina Bras: functioning, working memory, you know, modulating that. (01:16:28):
undefined

Katrina Bras: also, there's research stating that, daily walks are really (01:16:32):
undefined

Katrina Bras: good, especially for regulating, stress hormones, things that (01:16:36):
undefined

Katrina Bras: might also affect your ability to modulate your mood. (01:16:40):
undefined

Katrina Bras: and then for working memory, (01:16:44):
undefined

Katrina Bras: specifically walking and (01:16:45):
undefined

Katrina Bras: talking. (01:16:48):
undefined

Katrina Bras: like finding a friend or somebody to walk with, and (01:16:49):
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Katrina Bras: talking to them, even if they're not, physically there, taking a (01:16:53):
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Katrina Bras: walk once a day and calling that one friend you feel good talking (01:16:56):
undefined

Katrina Bras: to, or just your parents, right? (01:16:59):
undefined

Katrina Bras: whoever. (01:17:02):
undefined

Katrina Bras: Just finding connection. (01:17:03):
undefined

Katrina Bras: But maybe walking and talking (01:17:04):
undefined

Katrina Bras: can really improve your working (01:17:06):
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Katrina Bras: memory. (01:17:08):
undefined

Katrina Bras: I also try to cut out bad things. (01:17:09):
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Speaker: Like I try to take vacations (01:17:11):
undefined

Speaker: from TV and from my phone, (01:17:16):
undefined

Speaker: nothing like good old outside (01:17:19):
undefined

Speaker: time. (01:17:21):
undefined

Speaker: So when I was a kid, I was required to play outside for a (01:17:21):
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Speaker: long period of time. (01:17:24):
undefined

Speaker: I was also required to chug water before I went outside. (01:17:25):
undefined

Speaker: I lived in a very weird house. (01:17:28):
undefined

Speaker: But anyways, I spend time (01:17:30):
undefined

Speaker: outside, exercise, exercising (01:17:33):
undefined

Speaker: daily. (01:17:36):
undefined

Speaker: But I do that for hormones and for mood stabilization as well (01:17:36):
undefined

Speaker: because, I have very unstable moods and exercise helps me with (01:17:41):
undefined

Speaker: that quite a bit. (01:17:46):
undefined

Speaker: as far as working memory, I don't smoke marijuana. (01:17:47):
undefined

Speaker: there's actually a lot of emotional regulation issues. (01:17:53):
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Speaker: I remember when I was first diagnosed and I was highly (01:17:58):
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Speaker: suicidal, one of the first things my counselor said is your (01:18:01):
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Speaker: baseline, your emotional baseline, your stress baseline. (01:18:04):
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Speaker: All of that is all out of whack (01:18:08):
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Speaker: because you are smoking (01:18:10):
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Speaker: marijuana daily. (01:18:12):
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Speaker: So I know that that is something nobody wants to hear. (01:18:13):
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Speaker: If you are a recreational user. (01:18:17):
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Speaker: but not smoking marijuana will (01:18:19):
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Speaker: help improve your working memory (01:18:20):
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Speaker: and parts of your brain that are (01:18:23):
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Speaker: responsible for emotional (01:18:25):
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Speaker: regulation. (01:18:26):
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Speaker: So if you are suicidal and smoking marijuana, Oh, drinking. (01:18:27):
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Speaker: So really any of these self sabotaging behaviors. (01:18:32):
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Speaker: So I'm going to talk about substances because that was my (01:18:35):
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Speaker: relationship to it as well. (01:18:38):
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Speaker: there are lots of people who there is research behind the (01:18:39):
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Speaker: fact that alcohol or substances in general, will increase the (01:18:43):
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Speaker: risk for an attempt, because they decrease your executive (01:18:49):
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Speaker: functioning and, you know, increase impulsivity and (01:18:53):
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Speaker: reckless behavior because you are literally intoxicated. (01:18:56):
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Speaker: so a lot of attempts can also happen due to intoxication. (01:18:59):
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Speaker: that can even be from like over-the-counter things. (01:19:04):
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Speaker: So careful with substances, especially if you are suicidal (01:19:08):
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Speaker: or have tendencies towards that way, or if you're highly (01:19:14):
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Speaker: depressed, maybe drinking because it's a depressant and (01:19:18):
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Speaker: what it does to your brain, and your mood, maybe take a break (01:19:24):
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Speaker: and get counseling and talk to your doctor about it. (01:19:30):
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Speaker: Yeah, I agree. (01:19:34):
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Speaker: I think really the summation of this whole last section is to (01:19:36):
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Speaker: find things that genuinely make you happy to add into your life, (01:19:41):
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Speaker: whether that's food or exercise or going outside or playing or (01:19:46):
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Speaker: doing puzzles or games. (01:19:52):
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Speaker: Spending time with your friends. (01:19:55):
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Speaker: Find things you can add into your life that make you happy so (01:19:56):
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Speaker: that you're not trying to do things to numb out how bad you (01:20:01):
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Speaker: feel, and instead you're putting good things in also. (01:20:06):
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Speaker: So Mads is, I think, taking an (01:20:10):
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Speaker: additive approach, and I'm going (01:20:13):
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Speaker: to take a subtracting approach (01:20:15):
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Speaker: where even just getting rid of (01:20:16):
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Speaker: things that make you feel worse (01:20:19):
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Speaker: is a good way to show yourself (01:20:21):
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Speaker: you care. (01:20:23):
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Speaker: So if you feel like you have you, I'm gonna cut you off one (01:20:23):
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Speaker: because I'm being rude, but two, because you have to do something (01:20:28):
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Speaker: else with that time that you normally would be drinking. (01:20:32):
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Speaker: So you need to do something fun. (01:20:34):
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Speaker: Yes. (01:20:36):
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Speaker: In theory, however, I'm (01:20:38):
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Speaker: imagining somebody who is like (01:20:40):
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Speaker: laying in bed and can't do (01:20:43):
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Speaker: anything. (01:20:44):
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Speaker: And I get that boredom can be a part of this. (01:20:45):
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Speaker: But in order to not overwhelm someone, like going back to, (01:20:49):
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Speaker: let's imagine somebody in a whole peeing in a jug or (01:20:53):
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Speaker: whatever, if you are in that hole and all you are doing is (01:20:56):
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Speaker: consuming negative content on your phone, stay in your hole (01:20:59):
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Speaker: without your phone. (01:21:04):
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Speaker: Like start with subtracting something that is harmful. (01:21:05):
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Speaker: If you are in that hole and you (01:21:09):
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Speaker: are with a bottle of whatever (01:21:11):
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Speaker: liquor of choice or a thirty (01:21:14):
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Speaker: rack of beer, take away the (01:21:17):
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Speaker: beer. (01:21:19):
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Speaker: Stay in your room. (01:21:20):
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Speaker: Watch movies all day, pee in your jug, but take away the beer (01:21:21):
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Speaker: and see what difference. (01:21:24):
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Speaker: Just taking away something harmful could do. (01:21:26):
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Speaker: And then of course, adding new (01:21:30):
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Speaker: things, positive things is also (01:21:31):
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Speaker: great. (01:21:34):
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Speaker: I think both together is where like real. (01:21:35):
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Speaker: Yeah is where like you're, (01:21:39):
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Speaker: you're sprinting towards towards (01:21:41):
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Speaker: change. (01:21:44):
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Speaker: Strange. (01:21:45):
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Speaker: But if you can't, I think. (01:21:45):
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Speaker: I think I know you're you're totally right. (01:21:47):
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Speaker: And I think this is why it's good to have both of our (01:21:49):
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Speaker: perspectives at the same time. (01:21:52):
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Speaker: this is again where it's good for us to have our different (01:21:53):
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Speaker: dynamics because I've never had a substance use disorder. (01:21:56):
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Speaker: I have had times though, where I (01:22:00):
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Speaker: have used substances in a not (01:22:02):
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Speaker: healthy way. (01:22:05):
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Speaker: And so we're coming at it from a different approach, because to (01:22:06):
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Speaker: me, as someone that didn't have a substance use disorder but has (01:22:08):
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Speaker: had moments in my life where I have used substances in (01:22:11):
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Speaker: unhealthy ways, which is a very big distinction, that to me it's (01:22:14):
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Speaker: like drinking, because you just don't want to think about what (01:22:19):
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Speaker: else is going on or because you're bored to me, like, I (01:22:21):
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Speaker: think I needed something extra exciting to switch out, but like (01:22:25):
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Speaker: in your point of view, if you are seriously using something on (01:22:28):
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Speaker: a daily basis. (01:22:32):
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Speaker: And it's a huge part of, your identity and how you're spending (01:22:33):
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Speaker: your time just reducing or removing that is going to make a (01:22:36):
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Speaker: really big difference. (01:22:39):
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Speaker: Is that accurate? (01:22:41):
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Speaker: And that is not recovery advice. (01:22:44):
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Speaker: That is depression, suicidality advice. (01:22:46):
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Speaker: Recovery is a whole nother topic as well. (01:22:48):
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Speaker: essentially ways to improve your (01:22:52):
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Speaker: working memory is get rid of (01:22:54):
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Speaker: anything that is harming your (01:22:55):
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Speaker: working memory. (01:22:57):
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Speaker: And that includes short form content. (01:22:58):
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Speaker: So that includes your little toxic box. (01:23:02):
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Speaker: So if you do not have a (01:23:07):
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Speaker: substance use disorder, but you (01:23:08):
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Speaker: are depressed and all you do is (01:23:10):
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Speaker: stare at this little thing, (01:23:12):
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Speaker: chuck it across the room for two (01:23:14):
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Speaker: hours and see how much better (01:23:15):
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Speaker: you feel. (01:23:17):
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Speaker: I know you're listening to us on it right now, but chuck it. (01:23:17):
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Speaker: Yeah, it'll help to your point (01:23:21):
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Speaker: because you get even or, if you (01:23:23):
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Speaker: need to delete the apps like (01:23:24):
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Speaker: social media apps from your (01:23:27):
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Speaker: phone and listen to an audio (01:23:28):
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Speaker: book or listen to a podcast, (01:23:30):
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Speaker: even just things that are more (01:23:32):
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Speaker: long form and make you think (01:23:33):
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Speaker: more. (01:23:35):
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Speaker: And it's not just thousands of (01:23:35):
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Speaker: eight second videos that would (01:23:37):
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Speaker: help. (01:23:38):
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Speaker: And to Maddie's point, it's your baby step. (01:23:40):
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Speaker: if all you if you haven't been eating for days, whatever you (01:23:44):
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Speaker: can get in your mouth works. (01:23:48):
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Speaker: If you haven't been sleeping for days, if you've got to sleep (01:23:50):
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Speaker: during the day hours, like you'll find your way. (01:23:53):
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Speaker: We believe in you. (01:23:56):
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Speaker: But just little things. (01:23:57):
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Speaker: And one last thing I almost forgot. (01:24:00):
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Speaker: Is that a big aspect of any form (01:24:07):
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Speaker: of healing is that you do it in (01:24:11):
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Speaker: community. (01:24:14):
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Speaker: So I know that we talked a lot about how suicide is a very (01:24:15):
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Speaker: Isolating, um, experience. (01:24:20):
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Speaker: So, yes, the habits are good. (01:24:24):
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Speaker: Yes, the brain hacking is good. (01:24:27):
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Speaker: but humans need connection. (01:24:29):
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Speaker: There are studies that show that (01:24:33):
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Speaker: connection is key to our (01:24:36):
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Speaker: well-being, emotional and (01:24:39):
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Speaker: otherwise. (01:24:41):
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Speaker: Don't do this alone. (01:24:43):
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Speaker: That's all. (01:24:44):
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Speaker: I think that's really, really good point. (01:24:45):
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Speaker: And probably the most supportive (01:24:48):
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Speaker: thing you could do, of all (01:24:51):
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Speaker: things, is to find people to (01:24:52):
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Speaker: spend time with that you feel (01:24:54):
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Speaker: safe with. (01:24:56):
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Speaker: All right, Mads, you have anything else to add? (01:24:57):
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Speaker: I am just really glad we did this. (01:25:00):
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Speaker: I'm glad that we took the risk to start out really strong, with (01:25:02):
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Speaker: something as intense and such a massive topic as suicide (01:25:06):
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Speaker: awareness and prevention. (01:25:13):
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Speaker: And we thank you guys for being here. (01:25:14):
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Speaker: Well, I feel like I have learned (01:25:17):
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Speaker: so much over these past few (01:25:20):
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Speaker: episodes. (01:25:22):
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Speaker: Seriously, I'm really glad for (01:25:23):
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Speaker: different perspectives and I (01:25:25):
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Speaker: hope that you have enjoyed this (01:25:27):
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Speaker: as well. (01:25:28):
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Speaker: I have I have learned a lot from you as well. (01:25:30):
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Speaker: And if you enjoyed listening, leave us a review. (01:25:33):
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Speaker: Right? (01:25:37):
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Speaker: Meow. (01:25:38):
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Speaker: It's seriously a rough time out (01:25:38):
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Speaker: here as up and coming podcasters (01:25:41):
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Speaker: and reviews help us get the word (01:25:43):
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Speaker: out to new listeners and help us (01:25:45):
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Speaker: to grow with and for our (01:25:47):
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Speaker: audience. (01:25:49):
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Speaker: If you have any topic (01:25:50):
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Speaker: suggestions for our future (01:25:51):
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Speaker: episodes, please reach out to us (01:25:53):
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Speaker: via direct message on our (01:25:55):
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Speaker: Instagram page at Rewired Women (01:25:57):
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Speaker: Pod. (01:26:00):
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Speaker: We appreciate you for supporting us. (01:26:01):
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Speaker: Come back next Wednesday where (01:26:04):
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Speaker: we get into the neuroscience of (01:26:05):
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Speaker: intuition. (01:26:07):
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Speaker: I'm really excited for that one. (01:26:08):
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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Neuroscience of Suicide: Coping in Community Part 2