June 12, 2025 • 26 mins
Continuing with our special series on the poultry industry in Indian Country, we have 3 egg-cellent ladies on this episode. Kathrine Minthorn (Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla Indian Reservation) the Technical Assistance Network Associate Director from IAC talks about her own experience as an egg producer and how she helps her community. Amelia Evans-Brow (Yup’ik & Passamaquoddy) a Technical Assistance Specialist at IAC, known colloquially as the Chicken Ribbon Skirt lady, talks about her love for her feathered friends and how IAC is trying to encourage more Native producers to take the leap into poultry production. Also on the podcast is Cary Fremin (Native Village of Dot Lake) a former Technical Assistance Specialist for IAC and a council member for her village talks about the challenges of raising chickens in the wilds of Alaska.
For more information on the roundtable discussions mentioned in the episode email
katherine@indianag.org or amelia@indianag.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tish Mindemann (00:04):
Welcome back to our special series Making
Scratch. Today's episode willfocus on three of the
Intertribal AgricultureCouncil's technical assistants
and their interactions withIndian Country's poultry
industry. Not only do they helpothers on their egg-citing
journeys when raising poultry,all three women have their own
flocks.
(00:28):
Welcome to another episode ofRooted Wisdom. Today we have
three guests, and I'm going tolet them introduce themselves,
starting with you, Katherine.
Katherine Minthorn (00:38):
Hi. Good morning. My name is Katherine
Minthorn. I'm an enrolled memberof the Confederated Tribes of
the Umatilla Indian Reservationbased in Pendleton, Oregon. I am
employed by the IntertribalAgriculture Council as an
associate director of technicalassistance. Thank you.
Tish Mindemann (00:57):
Amelia?
Amelia Evans-Brown (01:00):
Hello. Good morning. My name is Amalia
Tumela Evans-Brown. I am Yupikfrom the village of Eek, Alaska.
I currently reside in NewHampshire. I am a northeast
Technical Assistance Specialistwith the Intertribal Agriculture
Council.
Tish Mindemann (01:15):
And Carrie.
Carrie Freeman (01:18):
Hello, my name is Carrie Freeman. I'm an
Athabaskan and enrolled in thevillage of Dot Lake, which is
located in Alaska. I work forthe Intertribal Agricultural
Council as a TechnicalAssistance Specialist for the
Alaska region.
Tish Mindemann (01:34):
So we're doing a series about the poultry
industry in Indian Country. Andwe want to start out a little
broadly. So Amelia, can you tellus a little bit about what
growth in the poultry industryyou've seen in Indian Country?
Amelia Evans-Brown (01:53):
Absolutely. So I guess I'll start off with
the poultry industry as a whole.So it's interesting, because we
have a lot of poultry productionoperations throughout the United
States and within IndianCountry, so depending on your
region. So like, I'm in thenortheast, so I support all
tribes from Maine to Virginiaover to Ohio. And in my
(02:15):
particular region, we have a lotof tribes getting into the
poultry industry, but aren'testablished, then we have other
regions where we have veryestablished poultry industries,
like in Catherine's region andAlaska, we're kind of starting
to see in the industry whereit's starting to pick up, where
there's a lot more interest. SoI feel like it's kind of mixed,
(02:39):
where we have heavy operations,and then there are kind of
tribes who are just gettingstarted.
Awesome.
Tish Mindemann (02:48):
Catherine, can you tell us a little bit about
what your interest in thepoultry industry is and what
your successes have been as aproducer?
Katherine Minthorn (02:58):
Well, my interest is only about four
years old. When the pandemichappened back in 2020, we had
just processed a steer. So wehad just a freezer full of beef,
you know, we weren't worriedabout, you know, having any
shortages, or anything likethat, of food - protein sources,
(03:19):
so to speak. But also kind ofpretty well aware that we'd get
tired of beef if, if we couldn'tget any any other source of
protein. So my friend and I thatran the cattle together, her and
her kids, and then myself and mygrandson, kind of settled on
chickens. Eggs, actually. So weordered chicks online, kind of
(03:49):
like it is today. Went to thefeed store to buy chicks and
there was a lot of other peoplethinking the same way. So chicks
were hard to buy in stores. Youcould only buy five at a time.
So we went in on a day that thatthey were - Oh, the chicks got
delivered early, and we happento be in the feed store, so each
(04:12):
bought five more chicks, and wehad, gosh, I think, like, 30
chicks we ordered online.Because we kind of researched a
little bit. The mortality rate'shigh, you know, when they're
being shipped in a container,you know, through the mail and
all that kind of stuff. So webought these other 10 chicks,
and we had them probably aboutmaybe a month before the other
(04:33):
chicks arrived. Well, we musthave been prolific chicken
producers, because all of ourdang chicks survived. And there
we were with like 40 chickens.And we, you know, we raised them
through the adolescent chickenstage and all that kind of
(04:53):
stuff, and kept them alive. Wewere kind of pretty amazed that
we did that. We did a lot ofresearch online. We made the
kids get on Google and research- each one of the kids had to -
we had two girls and a boy, andthey were ages from, I think,
eight to 11, seven to 10,somewhere like in that age. And
(05:16):
each one of them did a littleshort research and gave their
report to us, you know, on howto care for chicks. Well, one of
the first ones that I can recallis the pasty butt. Had no idea
what pasty butt was, you know,with chickens, well, with baby
chicks, their little stomachs,their systems, they plug up when
(05:45):
you feed them. The cereal grainfeeds that they're fed, it just
makes like it says paste, and itplugs those little chickens up.
And you can't just reach overthere and pull that manure off
of their feathers and pull itout, because it evidently
attaches to their intestines,and it'll pull the intestines
(06:05):
out of those little chickens. Sowe had to learn how to take warm
water and a washcloth andbasically clean that manure off
their feathers without pullingany internal organs out. Those
are the kind of things that wehad to learn how to do, having
never done it in our lives, andagain, our chicks - we ended up
(06:29):
with 40 laying hens. That was inthe Spring, about this time of
year, about in March. And byAugust, going into September, we
had a whole flock of chickens.Had 40 some chickens that were
starting to lay, and there wewere as more eggs than the two
families could use. And we weregiving them away and whatnot. My
(06:51):
neighbor up the road, you know,kind of getting into the fall
then I was talking to her abouther chickens, because she's got
pheasants, chickens and turkeys,she's been doing poultry for a
long time. And kind of talkedabout putting a cooperative
together and selling the eggsthat we were producing, because
(07:15):
she already had probably 40 somechickens. And we got to work on
that and formed a cooperative,which I'll talk about a little
bit later in this interview.
But we've learned a lot. Youknow, really grateful to -
(07:37):
number one grateful to Google.
Tish Mindemann (07:42):
So the successes weren't just with being able to
produce a lot of eggs. You saw alot of success in your kids
being able to learn aboutchicken production and that you
were able to help your communityas well.
Katherine Minthorn (08:01):
Correct. More than anything, number one
to be able to feed ourselves.And prove to these, or not prove
to the children, but make thosechildren aware that they are a
vital part of their ownexistence. You know, being able
to feed themselves. And thenthese kids learned how to do
(08:22):
that, not only with theirchickens, but with their cattle.
They, like I said, we had justprocessed a steer. Those kids
have learned this all along theway, how to grow sustainable
proteins, to keep yourselfalive, feed yourself.
Tish Mindemann (08:42):
That's awesome. Carrie, what's your experience
been like as a TA in the area ofpoultry in Indian Country?
Carrie Freeman (08:50):
I'm a newer TA to the IAC network, but I've
been a poultry producer for afew years now, and have
definitely learned a lot of newthings. I was always grateful
for mentors in this area.Specific to Alaska, we're
(09:13):
showing increased interest inpoultry production, you know,
chickens that lay eggs and thenjust processing poultry due to
the lack of protein security forthe state, where we're seeing a
lot of decreasing access tofisheries and large game in the
(09:35):
state, and a lot of tribes andcommunities are really starting
to look at poultry production tosupplement that proteins for
their communities.
Tish Mindemann (09:48):
It gets pretty cold in Alaska, so I imagine
that might be one of thebarriers that tribal producers
face. But what other barriers dothey face when they get into
poultry?
Carrie Freeman (09:57):
Yeah, specific to Alaska and across the
country, you know, there's somedifferent environmental
barriers. If it's too hot, toocold... Alaska, the other thing
that's a little harder for usis, if you don't have a local
poultry producer that's, youknow, growing chicks every year,
then you have to have themshipped in. And there's not a
(10:20):
lot of them that make it really.I mean, it's like a 50% decrease
on the amount of chicks that youorder. So, you know, always try
to find a local person. Butthere's a lot of barriers
around, like geographical stuff.So if you live off the road
system, you know, making sureyou plan ahead of time to get
(10:43):
enough feed, get enough of thematerials that you need to grow
your chicks.
Tish Mindemann (10:47):
IFAI is based out of Arkansas, which is a huge
poultry production area, and sowe see the opposite of the cold
here, we see hot. And so keepingthose chickens cool is very
important. Ladies, what supportis out there to overcome those
barriers that you see in theIndian Country poultry industry?
Katherine Minthorn (11:06):
Educating, you know, educating yourself,
like you're talking aboutweather conditions there. There
are breeds of chickens that arebred to be in hot areas. You
know, if it's for eggproduction, that they keep
laying through a hot season. Andthen there's also chickens that
(11:28):
are bred to sustain cold.There's so many breeds of
chickens out there. We were justtalking about one a couple days
ago, it's called the Buckeye.It's bred to - it's an egg and
meat bird, but it also basicallypatrols the coops and keeps them
(11:50):
clear of any rodents. They'reprolific rodent killers, and
they keep your coops clean likethat, keep mice and rats and
everything else. Any kind ofrodent is attracted because the
feed that goes into the chickensis cereal grain based.
Tish Mindemann (12:10):
And I know that you guys are technical assistant
specialists. So what kind ofsupport can you provide for
tribal producers?
Katherine Minthorn (12:21):
Carrie and myself will be hosting a Google
workspace, place for people tocome and learn about poultry
production. And it'll be fromhatching eggs to right up
through - and we plan on doingthis every Monday for however
(12:42):
long people still want to talkto us. We're just there to
provide any kind of basicallytechnical assistance that can
help people who are interestedin poultry production. Amelia,
Carrie, do you have anything toadd?
Carrie Freeman (12:58):
Yeah, so if people are interested in coming
it is invite only, but you canreach out directly to one of us.
Do you want me to give thatemail here? Or do you want to
put it in your podcast?
Tish Mindemann (13:10):
We'll be sure to include your emails in our show
notes, so that people can reachout to you.
Amelia Evans-Brown (13:17):
Perfect, awesome. Yeah. So they can just
reach out to us, kind of explainwhat they're interested in, and
then we can invite them to oursessions.
Tish Mindemann (13:26):
Awesome. Amelia, I have heard that you wear
chicken ribbon skirts, and so Iwant to know what inspired you
to become a poultry producer anda little bit more about how you
incorporate your traditionalknowledge in to your production.
Amelia Evans-Brown (13:50):
Awesome. How much time do we have? So
everyone at IAC knows I ampoultry obsessed, so I actually
have poultry ribbon skirts,poultry shirts. I actually have
a suit jacket that's all poultrymaterial. I wear poultry
earrings. I'm a bit of a chickennerd and poultry nerd. So I
(14:16):
would have to say, the story ofwhy I am so poultry obsessed
comes from when I was very, verylittle. So I was three years
old, and my mom got me my firstpair of ducks, and then the next
year, she got me my first 10chickens, and taught me
everything that I know, and mygreat grandmother also taught
me. And so when I first startedgoing to college. I went to
(14:41):
college for archeology, and thenturned it into zoo archeology,
because when I was little, I wasobsessed with dinosaurs. And the
obsession with chickens kind oflinks with that, because I've
always stood firmly on thatstance - you know, what comes
first, the chicken or the egg: the egg, because they're (14:57):
undefined
relatives of dinosaurs. So I owntiny raptors in my backyard.
And, yeah, the rest is history.
Tish Mindemann (15:08):
I love the idea that dino chicken nuggies are
just, like, a replication ofdinosaurs, so you're technically
eating a dinosaur when you'reeating a dino chicken nugget.
Amelia Evans-Brown (15:25):
Yes, absolutely. And it's funny that
you mentioned that, becauseactually, one of my
presentations, I have a graphicI made of dinosaurs, chickens,
and then the full, you know,evolution of the dino nugget is
going back to the roots.
Tish Mindemann (15:38):
I love that. That's amazing.
Amelia Evans-Brown (15:40):
Yes, I add humor to everything I do. If you
haven't noticed.
Tish Mindemann (15:44):
I do as well. I do as well. I love being able to
inject that humor in there andthen also bring it back. My
background's in scienceeducation. So you're a poultry
producer, and you learned fromyour mother and your
grandmother. Is that somethingthat was traditional in in the
(16:11):
village of Eek?
Amelia Evans-Brown (16:11):
So I'm actually so I'm Yupik on my
father's side, and I'mPassamaquoddy on my mother's
side. And Passamaquoddy, theycome from Canada. So my great
grandmother, she did chickens,and she brought them with her
when she moved from Canada toMassachusetts. And so the
poultry part definitely camefrom my mom's side of the
(16:31):
family. My dad's side of thefamily did reindeer, and then
when they moved to New England,they started doing horses.
Tish Mindemann (16:40):
Very cool. So Katherine, we've heard about
Amelia's inspiration forbecoming a poultry producer.
What type of model do you employon your poultry farm, and how
has that ensured your success?
Katherine Minthorn (17:00):
Well, I am part of a egg producers
cooperative here on thereservation. We have five coop
members, meaning that each oneof these members has a coop on
their own private property. Wedo, as part of the cooperative,
(17:21):
have a uniformity expectation.We all have - they're called
grandpa's feeders. It's a feederthat we have to train our
chickens to step on a treadle,and it pops the door of the
feeder open and they can feedwhile they're standing, while
they're bearing their weight onthat treadle. Pops that door
open, and they feed; when theystep off of it, it shuts the
(17:44):
door. That controls the rodentsgetting into the feed of the
chickens. We've also got awatering system. They can either
be five gallons, up to 50gallons. And then on the side of
each one of these containers, weuse a drill and put - basically,
(18:04):
they're just little wateringspigots on the sides of these
barrels. And like I have a 50gallon one, and can water about
15 chickens at a time. So thatkeeps their water - number one,
it keeps their water fresh,because they can't get in the
water and mess it all up. It'sone chicken at a time gets
(18:25):
watered and keeps their waterfresh and clean. We also have
what's called premier poultrynetting. It's electric chicken
fencing around the perimeter ofthe area where the chickens
outside of their coop, but itkeeps predators away. At my
particular coop, for the firsttwo years, we had a neighbor dog
(18:50):
that came down. The first timeit just, it just killed every
chicken that we had. We had,like over 60 chickens, and just
killed every one of them. Wecame back the next year, raised
the chicks, and it happenedevery time they were right at
laying age. When they were aboutsix and seven months old. Did it
a second time, and this time,the dog broke into the coop and
(19:14):
every chicken, that was -because it was nighttime, killed
all of the birds in the coopthat time. Today, talking about
it, I can't believe I went backa third year and bought more
chicks. And this time we putthis netting up. We haven't had
any attacks for about, well overtwo years, going on three years
now. So this poultry nettingreally keeps any kind of
(19:36):
predators out, dogs, cats,anything, nothing goes across
that electric fencing, it got apretty good shock on it. So
that's what has kept it safe.And all of our coops have the
same kind of security to keepour flocks secure from outside
(19:57):
predator. We've also - I callthis a mark of success. In 2024
- actually, in the fall of 2023the Cooperative was approached
by the tribe's FDPIR program andasked to be a supplier of farm
fresh eggs for the program. Soin 2024 the cooperative started
(20:19):
supplying the farm fresh eggs tothe FDPIR program on the
reservation. When we were firstapproached, it was probably - at
that time, it was 60 dozen eggsa month, is what they were
asking us to produce. And wewere able to do that going into
2024 (this was in 2023 when theyasked us) going into 2024 the
(20:42):
USDA Commodity Foods programincreased the number of eggs
that each family member couldreceive. So say, like you've got
a family of four, in 2023 theywould have received four dozen
eggs per month. Going into 2024they changed that. They doubled
it. So it was then a family offour gets eight dozen eggs per
(21:04):
month. We really had to cut offsome other long time customers.
Yeah, there was a couple ofcustomers, like the little store
on the reservation. They had hadour eggs in their coolers. We
also had a restaurant in thecasino in the food court, and
(21:29):
they were buying eggs from us,so we really had to pull back on
them to double the other order.So for most businesses, they're
trying to figure out where tosell their products, and we were
trying to figure out how to getenough products to meet the
demands - not demands, but theorders that we had in place. So
(21:51):
we felt that was a big success.We didn't like not being able to
provide enough eggs foreverybody, but we expanded this
year, and we've added more intothe cooperative, so we're hoping
to meet everybody's needs now.
Tish Mindemann (22:05):
That's amazing. I love that, and especially in a
time where we're seeing eggproduction being affected by the
bird flu; we have Dr Clark, whois on a different episode,
(22:26):
talking about backyard flocksand how to keep those safe. So
how has the bird flu epidemicaffected your farm and those
that you serve as a TA?
Katherine Minthorn (22:38):
There's not a lot of poultry producers in
Indian Country that we work withyet, you know, we're hoping to
build that up. But in my ownpersonal coop, in all of these
years, the three years that birdflu has been around, we haven't
had any issues. The closest it'sbeen is about two or three
(23:01):
counties away from the countythat I live in. I think there's
only been one outbreak inOregon, in my part of Oregon.
Anyway, it hasn't impacted mine,my operation at all.
Amelia Evans-Brown (23:12):
I can speak to my region. So in here in the
Northeast I have a few poultryproducers that I work with. And
so as of right now, you know,knock on wood. We haven't had to
deal with anything as far as thebird flu goes with my own
personal flock, we practicebiosecurity. So we have, you
(23:33):
know, certain boots for certainareas, and we try to be mindful
of where we're walking before wego into certain, you know,
poultry coops, because here atmy farm, we have chickens, we
have quail, we have pheasant,Guinea, goose, duck, so we have
a little bit of everything. Andwhen I'm, you know, working with
producers and educatingproducers on poultry, I always
(23:55):
talk about biosecurity andimmune systems and things like
that. So luckily, here in thenortheast, all the producers I
work with, we haven't had anyissues yet.
Carrie Freeman (24:05):
And I would say for Alaska, we have had one
instance of bird flu that I knowabout, but it hasn't really
affected the producers that Iwork with. What I work on is
like the education piece on - Icome into contact with new
producers, there's a lot ofinterest in making sure that
(24:27):
they understand the signs andsymptoms of bird flu and the
appropriate process once it'sbeen identified.
Tish Mindemann (24:34):
Absolutely. Dr Clark talked a lot about
biosecurity and covering yourchickens, because it is spread
by wild birds. So it sounds likeyou guys have got it under
control there in Indian Country,we have greatly appreciated you
all being on today. Is thereanything else that you'd like to
(24:58):
tell our listeners about IndianCountry poultry?
Katherine Minthorn (25:03):
It only takes a small land base to raise
chickens on. It's really doable.It's the most cost effective
livestock production, I believe,that you can get into is
poultry.
Tish Mindemann (25:15):
Absolutely, there's almost a one to one,
like one pound of feed to onepound of meat equivalency there,
where as with cattle, there'slike a three to one. So they
absolutely are cost effective.And we're going to be speaking
to Nick Hernandez, from Makoceabout how his program can help
(25:39):
people who are interested inproducing chickens take that
next step. So thank you, ladies.
Katherine Minthorn (25:47):
Thank you for having us.
Tish Mindemann (25:50):
Thank you again to all of our amazing guests. We
hope that you have enjoyed thisepisode and learned about how
tribal Food and Agriculture isthriving. If you would like the
contact information of any ofthe organizations or individuals
in today's podcast, check theshow notes. Finally, if you'd
like to help support IFAI's workin Indian Country food and ag,
(26:10):
go to our website and donate.The link will be provided in our
show notes. As always, stayrooted in wisdom.
Welcome back to our special series Making
Scratch. Today's episode willfocus on three of the
Intertribal AgricultureCouncil's technical assistants
and their interactions withIndian Country's poultry
industry. Not only do they helpothers on their egg-citing
journeys when raising poultry,all three women have their own
flocks.
(00:28):
Welcome to another episode ofRooted Wisdom. Today we have
three guests, and I'm going tolet them introduce themselves,
starting with you, Katherine.
Katherine Minthorn (00:38):
Hi. Good morning. My name is Katherine
Minthorn. I'm an enrolled memberof the Confederated Tribes of
the Umatilla Indian Reservationbased in Pendleton, Oregon. I am
employed by the IntertribalAgriculture Council as an
associate director of technicalassistance. Thank you.
Tish Mindemann (00:57):
Amelia?
Amelia Evans-Brown (01:00):
Hello. Good morning. My name is Amalia
Tumela Evans-Brown. I am Yupikfrom the village of Eek, Alaska.
I currently reside in NewHampshire. I am a northeast
Technical Assistance Specialistwith the Intertribal Agriculture
Council.
Tish Mindemann (01:15):
And Carrie.
Carrie Freeman (01:18):
Hello, my name is Carrie Freeman. I'm an
Athabaskan and enrolled in thevillage of Dot Lake, which is
located in Alaska. I work forthe Intertribal Agricultural
Council as a TechnicalAssistance Specialist for the
Alaska region.
Tish Mindemann (01:34):
So we're doing a series about the poultry
industry in Indian Country. Andwe want to start out a little
broadly. So Amelia, can you tellus a little bit about what
growth in the poultry industryyou've seen in Indian Country?
Amelia Evans-Brown (01:53):
Absolutely. So I guess I'll start off with
the poultry industry as a whole.So it's interesting, because we
have a lot of poultry productionoperations throughout the United
States and within IndianCountry, so depending on your
region. So like, I'm in thenortheast, so I support all
tribes from Maine to Virginiaover to Ohio. And in my
(02:15):
particular region, we have a lotof tribes getting into the
poultry industry, but aren'testablished, then we have other
regions where we have veryestablished poultry industries,
like in Catherine's region andAlaska, we're kind of starting
to see in the industry whereit's starting to pick up, where
there's a lot more interest. SoI feel like it's kind of mixed,
(02:39):
where we have heavy operations,and then there are kind of
tribes who are just gettingstarted.
Awesome.
Tish Mindemann (02:48):
Catherine, can you tell us a little bit about
what your interest in thepoultry industry is and what
your successes have been as aproducer?
Katherine Minthorn (02:58):
Well, my interest is only about four
years old. When the pandemichappened back in 2020, we had
just processed a steer. So wehad just a freezer full of beef,
you know, we weren't worriedabout, you know, having any
shortages, or anything likethat, of food - protein sources,
(03:19):
so to speak. But also kind ofpretty well aware that we'd get
tired of beef if, if we couldn'tget any any other source of
protein. So my friend and I thatran the cattle together, her and
her kids, and then myself and mygrandson, kind of settled on
chickens. Eggs, actually. So weordered chicks online, kind of
(03:49):
like it is today. Went to thefeed store to buy chicks and
there was a lot of other peoplethinking the same way. So chicks
were hard to buy in stores. Youcould only buy five at a time.
So we went in on a day that thatthey were - Oh, the chicks got
delivered early, and we happento be in the feed store, so each
(04:12):
bought five more chicks, and wehad, gosh, I think, like, 30
chicks we ordered online.Because we kind of researched a
little bit. The mortality rate'shigh, you know, when they're
being shipped in a container,you know, through the mail and
all that kind of stuff. So webought these other 10 chicks,
and we had them probably aboutmaybe a month before the other
(04:33):
chicks arrived. Well, we musthave been prolific chicken
producers, because all of ourdang chicks survived. And there
we were with like 40 chickens.And we, you know, we raised them
through the adolescent chickenstage and all that kind of
(04:53):
stuff, and kept them alive. Wewere kind of pretty amazed that
we did that. We did a lot ofresearch online. We made the
kids get on Google and research- each one of the kids had to -
we had two girls and a boy, andthey were ages from, I think,
eight to 11, seven to 10,somewhere like in that age. And
(05:16):
each one of them did a littleshort research and gave their
report to us, you know, on howto care for chicks. Well, one of
the first ones that I can recallis the pasty butt. Had no idea
what pasty butt was, you know,with chickens, well, with baby
chicks, their little stomachs,their systems, they plug up when
(05:45):
you feed them. The cereal grainfeeds that they're fed, it just
makes like it says paste, and itplugs those little chickens up.
And you can't just reach overthere and pull that manure off
of their feathers and pull itout, because it evidently
attaches to their intestines,and it'll pull the intestines
(06:05):
out of those little chickens. Sowe had to learn how to take warm
water and a washcloth andbasically clean that manure off
their feathers without pullingany internal organs out. Those
are the kind of things that wehad to learn how to do, having
never done it in our lives, andagain, our chicks - we ended up
(06:29):
with 40 laying hens. That was inthe Spring, about this time of
year, about in March. And byAugust, going into September, we
had a whole flock of chickens.Had 40 some chickens that were
starting to lay, and there wewere as more eggs than the two
families could use. And we weregiving them away and whatnot. My
(06:51):
neighbor up the road, you know,kind of getting into the fall
then I was talking to her abouther chickens, because she's got
pheasants, chickens and turkeys,she's been doing poultry for a
long time. And kind of talkedabout putting a cooperative
together and selling the eggsthat we were producing, because
(07:15):
she already had probably 40 somechickens. And we got to work on
that and formed a cooperative,which I'll talk about a little
bit later in this interview.
But we've learned a lot. Youknow, really grateful to -
(07:37):
number one grateful to Google.
Tish Mindemann (07:42):
So the successes weren't just with being able to
produce a lot of eggs. You saw alot of success in your kids
being able to learn aboutchicken production and that you
were able to help your communityas well.
Katherine Minthorn (08:01):
Correct. More than anything, number one
to be able to feed ourselves.And prove to these, or not prove
to the children, but make thosechildren aware that they are a
vital part of their ownexistence. You know, being able
to feed themselves. And thenthese kids learned how to do
(08:22):
that, not only with theirchickens, but with their cattle.
They, like I said, we had justprocessed a steer. Those kids
have learned this all along theway, how to grow sustainable
proteins, to keep yourselfalive, feed yourself.
Tish Mindemann (08:42):
That's awesome. Carrie, what's your experience
been like as a TA in the area ofpoultry in Indian Country?
Carrie Freeman (08:50):
I'm a newer TA to the IAC network, but I've
been a poultry producer for afew years now, and have
definitely learned a lot of newthings. I was always grateful
for mentors in this area.Specific to Alaska, we're
(09:13):
showing increased interest inpoultry production, you know,
chickens that lay eggs and thenjust processing poultry due to
the lack of protein security forthe state, where we're seeing a
lot of decreasing access tofisheries and large game in the
(09:35):
state, and a lot of tribes andcommunities are really starting
to look at poultry production tosupplement that proteins for
their communities.
Tish Mindemann (09:48):
It gets pretty cold in Alaska, so I imagine
that might be one of thebarriers that tribal producers
face. But what other barriers dothey face when they get into
poultry?
Carrie Freeman (09:57):
Yeah, specific to Alaska and across the
country, you know, there's somedifferent environmental
barriers. If it's too hot, toocold... Alaska, the other thing
that's a little harder for usis, if you don't have a local
poultry producer that's, youknow, growing chicks every year,
then you have to have themshipped in. And there's not a
(10:20):
lot of them that make it really.I mean, it's like a 50% decrease
on the amount of chicks that youorder. So, you know, always try
to find a local person. Butthere's a lot of barriers
around, like geographical stuff.So if you live off the road
system, you know, making sureyou plan ahead of time to get
(10:43):
enough feed, get enough of thematerials that you need to grow
your chicks.
Tish Mindemann (10:47):
IFAI is based out of Arkansas, which is a huge
poultry production area, and sowe see the opposite of the cold
here, we see hot. And so keepingthose chickens cool is very
important. Ladies, what supportis out there to overcome those
barriers that you see in theIndian Country poultry industry?
Katherine Minthorn (11:06):
Educating, you know, educating yourself,
like you're talking aboutweather conditions there. There
are breeds of chickens that arebred to be in hot areas. You
know, if it's for eggproduction, that they keep
laying through a hot season. Andthen there's also chickens that
(11:28):
are bred to sustain cold.There's so many breeds of
chickens out there. We were justtalking about one a couple days
ago, it's called the Buckeye.It's bred to - it's an egg and
meat bird, but it also basicallypatrols the coops and keeps them
(11:50):
clear of any rodents. They'reprolific rodent killers, and
they keep your coops clean likethat, keep mice and rats and
everything else. Any kind ofrodent is attracted because the
feed that goes into the chickensis cereal grain based.
Tish Mindemann (12:10):
And I know that you guys are technical assistant
specialists. So what kind ofsupport can you provide for
tribal producers?
Katherine Minthorn (12:21):
Carrie and myself will be hosting a Google
workspace, place for people tocome and learn about poultry
production. And it'll be fromhatching eggs to right up
through - and we plan on doingthis every Monday for however
(12:42):
long people still want to talkto us. We're just there to
provide any kind of basicallytechnical assistance that can
help people who are interestedin poultry production. Amelia,
Carrie, do you have anything toadd?
Carrie Freeman (12:58):
Yeah, so if people are interested in coming
it is invite only, but you canreach out directly to one of us.
Do you want me to give thatemail here? Or do you want to
put it in your podcast?
Tish Mindemann (13:10):
We'll be sure to include your emails in our show
notes, so that people can reachout to you.
Amelia Evans-Brown (13:17):
Perfect, awesome. Yeah. So they can just
reach out to us, kind of explainwhat they're interested in, and
then we can invite them to oursessions.
Tish Mindemann (13:26):
Awesome. Amelia, I have heard that you wear
chicken ribbon skirts, and so Iwant to know what inspired you
to become a poultry producer anda little bit more about how you
incorporate your traditionalknowledge in to your production.
Amelia Evans-Brown (13:50):
Awesome. How much time do we have? So
everyone at IAC knows I ampoultry obsessed, so I actually
have poultry ribbon skirts,poultry shirts. I actually have
a suit jacket that's all poultrymaterial. I wear poultry
earrings. I'm a bit of a chickennerd and poultry nerd. So I
(14:16):
would have to say, the story ofwhy I am so poultry obsessed
comes from when I was very, verylittle. So I was three years
old, and my mom got me my firstpair of ducks, and then the next
year, she got me my first 10chickens, and taught me
everything that I know, and mygreat grandmother also taught
me. And so when I first startedgoing to college. I went to
(14:41):
college for archeology, and thenturned it into zoo archeology,
because when I was little, I wasobsessed with dinosaurs. And the
obsession with chickens kind oflinks with that, because I've
always stood firmly on thatstance - you know, what comes
first, the chicken or the egg: the egg, because they're (14:57):
undefined
relatives of dinosaurs. So I owntiny raptors in my backyard.
And, yeah, the rest is history.
Tish Mindemann (15:08):
I love the idea that dino chicken nuggies are
just, like, a replication ofdinosaurs, so you're technically
eating a dinosaur when you'reeating a dino chicken nugget.
Amelia Evans-Brown (15:25):
Yes, absolutely. And it's funny that
you mentioned that, becauseactually, one of my
presentations, I have a graphicI made of dinosaurs, chickens,
and then the full, you know,evolution of the dino nugget is
going back to the roots.
Tish Mindemann (15:38):
I love that. That's amazing.
Amelia Evans-Brown (15:40):
Yes, I add humor to everything I do. If you
haven't noticed.
Tish Mindemann (15:44):
I do as well. I do as well. I love being able to
inject that humor in there andthen also bring it back. My
background's in scienceeducation. So you're a poultry
producer, and you learned fromyour mother and your
grandmother. Is that somethingthat was traditional in in the
(16:11):
village of Eek?
Amelia Evans-Brown (16:11):
So I'm actually so I'm Yupik on my
father's side, and I'mPassamaquoddy on my mother's
side. And Passamaquoddy, theycome from Canada. So my great
grandmother, she did chickens,and she brought them with her
when she moved from Canada toMassachusetts. And so the
poultry part definitely camefrom my mom's side of the
(16:31):
family. My dad's side of thefamily did reindeer, and then
when they moved to New England,they started doing horses.
Tish Mindemann (16:40):
Very cool. So Katherine, we've heard about
Amelia's inspiration forbecoming a poultry producer.
What type of model do you employon your poultry farm, and how
has that ensured your success?
Katherine Minthorn (17:00):
Well, I am part of a egg producers
cooperative here on thereservation. We have five coop
members, meaning that each oneof these members has a coop on
their own private property. Wedo, as part of the cooperative,
(17:21):
have a uniformity expectation.We all have - they're called
grandpa's feeders. It's a feederthat we have to train our
chickens to step on a treadle,and it pops the door of the
feeder open and they can feedwhile they're standing, while
they're bearing their weight onthat treadle. Pops that door
open, and they feed; when theystep off of it, it shuts the
(17:44):
door. That controls the rodentsgetting into the feed of the
chickens. We've also got awatering system. They can either
be five gallons, up to 50gallons. And then on the side of
each one of these containers, weuse a drill and put - basically,
(18:04):
they're just little wateringspigots on the sides of these
barrels. And like I have a 50gallon one, and can water about
15 chickens at a time. So thatkeeps their water - number one,
it keeps their water fresh,because they can't get in the
water and mess it all up. It'sone chicken at a time gets
(18:25):
watered and keeps their waterfresh and clean. We also have
what's called premier poultrynetting. It's electric chicken
fencing around the perimeter ofthe area where the chickens
outside of their coop, but itkeeps predators away. At my
particular coop, for the firsttwo years, we had a neighbor dog
(18:50):
that came down. The first timeit just, it just killed every
chicken that we had. We had,like over 60 chickens, and just
killed every one of them. Wecame back the next year, raised
the chicks, and it happenedevery time they were right at
laying age. When they were aboutsix and seven months old. Did it
a second time, and this time,the dog broke into the coop and
(19:14):
every chicken, that was -because it was nighttime, killed
all of the birds in the coopthat time. Today, talking about
it, I can't believe I went backa third year and bought more
chicks. And this time we putthis netting up. We haven't had
any attacks for about, well overtwo years, going on three years
now. So this poultry nettingreally keeps any kind of
(19:36):
predators out, dogs, cats,anything, nothing goes across
that electric fencing, it got apretty good shock on it. So
that's what has kept it safe.And all of our coops have the
same kind of security to keepour flocks secure from outside
(19:57):
predator. We've also - I callthis a mark of success. In 2024
- actually, in the fall of 2023the Cooperative was approached
by the tribe's FDPIR program andasked to be a supplier of farm
fresh eggs for the program. Soin 2024 the cooperative started
(20:19):
supplying the farm fresh eggs tothe FDPIR program on the
reservation. When we were firstapproached, it was probably - at
that time, it was 60 dozen eggsa month, is what they were
asking us to produce. And wewere able to do that going into
2024 (this was in 2023 when theyasked us) going into 2024 the
(20:42):
USDA Commodity Foods programincreased the number of eggs
that each family member couldreceive. So say, like you've got
a family of four, in 2023 theywould have received four dozen
eggs per month. Going into 2024they changed that. They doubled
it. So it was then a family offour gets eight dozen eggs per
(21:04):
month. We really had to cut offsome other long time customers.
Yeah, there was a couple ofcustomers, like the little store
on the reservation. They had hadour eggs in their coolers. We
also had a restaurant in thecasino in the food court, and
(21:29):
they were buying eggs from us,so we really had to pull back on
them to double the other order.So for most businesses, they're
trying to figure out where tosell their products, and we were
trying to figure out how to getenough products to meet the
demands - not demands, but theorders that we had in place. So
(21:51):
we felt that was a big success.We didn't like not being able to
provide enough eggs foreverybody, but we expanded this
year, and we've added more intothe cooperative, so we're hoping
to meet everybody's needs now.
Tish Mindemann (22:05):
That's amazing. I love that, and especially in a
time where we're seeing eggproduction being affected by the
bird flu; we have Dr Clark, whois on a different episode,
(22:26):
talking about backyard flocksand how to keep those safe. So
how has the bird flu epidemicaffected your farm and those
that you serve as a TA?
Katherine Minthorn (22:38):
There's not a lot of poultry producers in
Indian Country that we work withyet, you know, we're hoping to
build that up. But in my ownpersonal coop, in all of these
years, the three years that birdflu has been around, we haven't
had any issues. The closest it'sbeen is about two or three
(23:01):
counties away from the countythat I live in. I think there's
only been one outbreak inOregon, in my part of Oregon.
Anyway, it hasn't impacted mine,my operation at all.
Amelia Evans-Brown (23:12):
I can speak to my region. So in here in the
Northeast I have a few poultryproducers that I work with. And
so as of right now, you know,knock on wood. We haven't had to
deal with anything as far as thebird flu goes with my own
personal flock, we practicebiosecurity. So we have, you
(23:33):
know, certain boots for certainareas, and we try to be mindful
of where we're walking before wego into certain, you know,
poultry coops, because here atmy farm, we have chickens, we
have quail, we have pheasant,Guinea, goose, duck, so we have
a little bit of everything. Andwhen I'm, you know, working with
producers and educatingproducers on poultry, I always
(23:55):
talk about biosecurity andimmune systems and things like
that. So luckily, here in thenortheast, all the producers I
work with, we haven't had anyissues yet.
Carrie Freeman (24:05):
And I would say for Alaska, we have had one
instance of bird flu that I knowabout, but it hasn't really
affected the producers that Iwork with. What I work on is
like the education piece on - Icome into contact with new
producers, there's a lot ofinterest in making sure that
(24:27):
they understand the signs andsymptoms of bird flu and the
appropriate process once it'sbeen identified.
Tish Mindemann (24:34):
Absolutely. Dr Clark talked a lot about
biosecurity and covering yourchickens, because it is spread
by wild birds. So it sounds likeyou guys have got it under
control there in Indian Country,we have greatly appreciated you
all being on today. Is thereanything else that you'd like to
(24:58):
tell our listeners about IndianCountry poultry?
Katherine Minthorn (25:03):
It only takes a small land base to raise
chickens on. It's really doable.It's the most cost effective
livestock production, I believe,that you can get into is
poultry.
Tish Mindemann (25:15):
Absolutely, there's almost a one to one,
like one pound of feed to onepound of meat equivalency there,
where as with cattle, there'slike a three to one. So they
absolutely are cost effective.And we're going to be speaking
to Nick Hernandez, from Makoceabout how his program can help
(25:39):
people who are interested inproducing chickens take that
next step. So thank you, ladies.
Katherine Minthorn (25:47):
Thank you for having us.
Tish Mindemann (25:50):
Thank you again to all of our amazing guests. We
hope that you have enjoyed thisepisode and learned about how
tribal Food and Agriculture isthriving. If you would like the
contact information of any ofthe organizations or individuals
in today's podcast, check theshow notes. Finally, if you'd
like to help support IFAI's workin Indian Country food and ag,
(26:10):
go to our website and donate.The link will be provided in our
show notes. As always, stayrooted in wisdom.
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