August 28, 2025 • 58 mins
The Chat The Guest: Pete Fraser Owner of Harbour Lights Fish & Chip Shop, Fraser’s Fish & Chips, and Kona; Sustainability Advocate in the Fish & Chip Industry
The Chat From Navy to the Fryer Pete shares his journey from a Royal Navy helicopter observer to fish and chip shop owner, explaining how friendship and a leap into business ownership with Harbour Lights set him on a new path. After an amicable split with his first business partner, Pete found his stride, growing Harbour Lights and carving out a leadership role in bringing sustainability into the fish and chip world.
Sustainability on the Plate Pete explains how his frustration with the lack of guidance on sustainable sourcing in the mid-2000s sparked a mission. Discovering only a handful of shops cared about sustainability at the time, he pushed forward, using MSC certification, engaging with the Cornwall Wildlife Trust, and adopting the Cornwall Good Seafood Guide. Dressing up in a cod outfit to teach children about sustainable fish, he learnt the power of fun and simple messages in shifting mindsets.
Fish, Chips, Oil, and Packaging Pete takes us through the practicalities behind the nation’s favourite meal. Cod and haddock dominate UK diets, but he champions alternatives like pollock and Cornish hake, crediting celebrity chefs for helping expand public tastes. Chips, far from simple, are shaped by climate, storage, and supply challenges, with farmers balancing rain and sun to produce the perfect potato. On oil, Pete challenges misconceptions about palm oil, showing why responsibly sourced palm oil remains the most sustainable option when compared with alternatives like rapeseed. Packaging, too, comes with its complexities: biodegradable boxes only truly work if councils provide proper waste streams, highlighting the gap between policy pressure and practical recycling.
Keeping it Light Pete emphasises that fish and chips should always be a joyful experience. His approach combines education with humour, encouraging customers to be brave, try new species, and see sustainability not as sacrifice but as adventure.
Top Achievable Tips
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Try a new fish species each month
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Give the Big Five a miss (cod, haddock, prawns, salmon, tuna)
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Try vegan alternatives such as tofu “fish”
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Root to peel, head to tail: cut food waste by using the whole ingredient
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Support local food producers and farm shops
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Spend 10 minutes with your council’s waste guide to recycle better
Evidence
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Harbour Lights Fish Buying Policy 2025
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Cornwall Good Seafood Guide (Cornwall Wildlife Trust)
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Chester Zoo Sustainable Palm Oil Statement
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Consumer Fish Buying Behaviour Report (University of Exeter)
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Sunday Times Feature on Harbour Lights
What One Thing Can We Do Today to Make a Better Tomorrow? Pete’s advice is simple: lighten up. Take sustainability seriously, but do it with laughter, kindness, and joy. A lighter touch reduces conflict and creates more change than anger or blame.
Contact Details Harbour Lights Fish & Chips: Pete Fraser Instagram: @harbourlightsfalmouth
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
One of the UK's busiest fishing ports, New in Cornwall, lands over 50 species
of fish. Most Brits will only ever eat five of them. Hi, I'm Curly Steve and I'm
searching for a greener room. [Music]
(00:24):
Today we're joined by Pete Fraser, otherwise known as Pete the Chip.
a former Royal Navy helicopter observer and now sustainability trailblazer in
the fish and chip world. Pete, welcome to the show. Thank you, Curly, for the invite.
It's great to have you here. Now, uh, let's just rewind a minute. I'd like to take you back to your childhood and
(00:48):
maybe you could tell me where you're from and, uh, what and what your childhood was like.
Um, very happy childhood. um very close family. Uh my father was
working down in the chemical industry down in Cornwall and so I was born at
home in a lovely village called Perinathnau. Mhm. Down by Marazion and uh I was there for
(01:14):
the first three years of my life and then we moved around a little bit but for the majority of my childhood I was
on the banks of the tempames in a town called Maiden Head. Okay. a very happy time. Um, very
conventional school, university, uh, first job up in Liverpool, uh, in
(01:37):
the early days of the computer industry, uh, graduate 1981. It was it was a crazy
time, but I had then 19 very happy years in the Navy. originally
um I haven't got brilliant coordination but I've really fancied flying and I had
(01:57):
quite a had a maths degree so they quite they put me in the back of uh seeking
helicopters running all the weapon systems for tracking submarines got married four
kids popped out um age 40 with uh one of
my best mates in the Navy bought a fish and chip shop. We had Harbor Lights for
(02:22):
3 years, then bought Killing Bay Beach Cafe and we ran both simultaneously,
which worked well. Um, but then sort of nature take its course. I we needed to I
wouldn't have been brave enough to buy a business as big as Harbor Lights on my own, right?
Um, so it was great to have a partner for that and we could sort of share our
(02:45):
mistakes. about after 5 years we had got sufficient maturity that maybe two best
friends aren't necessarily the best business partners cuz we didn't really
want to make each other cry or anything like that. So there was a a very amicable business
divorce after 5 years and luckily we had two great assets. So um my partner Simon
(03:12):
kept the beach bought us out of the beach and we just concentrated in the fish and chip shop and
my separate both of them had sort of doubled their turnover within 3 years. They we just it was holding us back. The
partnership was great to get us going, but once we got our confidence, we needed direction and and and so
(03:36):
in terms of business, that's when sort of harbor lights and fish and chips
and sustainability really took off when I had sole control of what was
important. So, let's look into the sustainability side of things now. Um
what where where did you feel that it was time to start becoming
(04:00):
sustainability and what was the sort of do you was there a catalyst or did it just come organically? How did how did
that happen? I just hate being in a pack. I prefer to
be at the front. That's fair enough. And
I just there wasn't enough. I I' I'd had so much help. it. Luckily, choosing fish
(04:25):
and chips, it is the friendliest industry in the world. If you operate in the same town as
another fish and chip shop owner, sometimes it's all a bit kgy, but if you
operate in a different town from someone, it is just so friendly. They just share every bit of knowledge
they've got. Mhm. Um, and that's the help that I had to
(04:50):
start from the industry was great. I just discovered though that
sustainability was just down here. No one was talking
about it. Um it all started the there's an organization called Sea Fish who um I
(05:11):
don't know if you know but it's funded every bit of fish that comes into the UK
um whether it's caught and sold at a market or whether it's imported prawns
from Thailand or whatever um has a sir charge maybe half a percent of the value
of what whatever but this this organization Sea Fish is there and it's
(05:37):
got scientists and it's got a training safety training and promoting fish
sales. I think they maybe scoop about 6 8 million a year from this this charge
of fish um a levy from fish coming into the UK. So they they were based up in
(05:57):
Edinburgh and I remember it was had my business divorce in 2005. So it's
like late 2005 early 2006. I just pick up the phone to sea fish and
I just said could I speak to someone about I just want to source our fish as
(06:19):
responsibly as possible. could I could I speak to you know
someone someone and it just went quiet at the end of the phone. This was only 20 years ago.
Well, yeah, we might have someone and it was just it just didn't appear to be on
(06:42):
the radar and I just thought, "Oh, this is interesting."
So I then chatted more and I found about two or
three other fish and chip shops. I mean there's in those days there were probably 10 12,000
fish and chip shops in the country. It is sadly shrinking all the time, but I
(07:07):
probably only found two or three other fish and chip shops 20 years ago that
I could have a meaningful conversation about sourcing fish sustainably. Yeah.
Um and so yeah, no, that just sent me off and I went so it it went from there.
Um and I just thought I really want to do this and the nice
(07:34):
thing about fish and chips is that and probably we'll come on to this as well.
Uh you we have a lot of customers. Harbor Lights has sort of grown in size. Uh,
and you know, we could fill up Wembley Stadium with the number of people that come into our shop every year. And so
(07:56):
you have a chance to educate, but um, no one on the planet likes being
preached to and and fish and chip should be a uplifting experience. So, um,
getting messages across in fun ways about sustainability was was always I'm
(08:19):
in a great industry and uh there's lots of fun to be had.
So, what did before we go on to the fund, which I'm I'd like to talk about that some more. What does sustainability
with fish look like to you? What what are you looking for when you're talking
about bringing a bit of fish into your restaurant?
(08:43):
Can I just go back one to what really cemented it in? I just to have fun. I uh
I decided to get myself a cod outfit. So, and I tried in this country, but I
couldn't I just couldn't find anyone that would make a fish outfit of
(09:04):
sufficient quality. So, you wanted to dress up like a cod cod to to just dance around and have
some fun. Yeah. But Amazon wasn't going in those days everywhere. I don't eBay wouldn't have
been. I just couldn't find a someone that would make me a really good quality cod outfit. So in the end I don't I
(09:25):
found someone in Oregon in America and eventually this big package came across
and it was my COD outfit and I I sort of put that on and had some
fun. And one thing I did was I just wanted to go out into
my kids primary school and it obviously embarrass them. Mhm.
(09:48):
Cuz that's the role of dads do. That's what dads do. So I went there
under the guise of just chatting to kids about sustainability and fish and
they were only 8 ny old so they were up for a bit of fun this sixoot cod dancing
into their classroom and I just remember one time I was in
(10:15):
there and I just asked an open question you know
what does sustain ustainability mean to you? I wanted to hear what an eight or
nineyear-old said. And this one lad said, "I really enjoy
my fish and chips. I want my grandchildren to enjoy them as well."
(10:40):
Oh, beautiful. And I just went, "Oh, that cemented it all." Yeah. Yeah.
It needed an eight or nine year old kid to really go right. Wow. an 8 to nine year old kid thinking
about grandchildren is that's that's pretty special. Yeah, it was. Yeah. So,
uh so it it sort of it went on. Yeah, it went on from there. I I diverted. Well,
(11:03):
how do I how do we we've got
um the trouble with the British compared to the let's say the French or
the Spanish is that we're not very bra. We might be brave on the battlefield, but we're not very
brave with with what we put in our mouths. That's interesting. So, we're not very
(11:28):
adventurous when it comes to trying new things. No, it it's it is just the five
is cod, hadock, salmon, tuna, and prawns. Okay. Other five. And that accounts for 90% of
the the fish that goes in people's mouths in the UK. Um, New Lin Harbor
(11:50):
lands over 50 different species of fish, but the vast majority go straight over
to the continent because there isn't a market in this country. Interesting. So, we are,
as much as we've always got other fish, we're always trying to encourage people
(12:12):
to try other fish. But the British are
fixed rigidly. If I want fish and chips, in the south it's cod and in the north
is hadock. Okay? and they just don't want to um
(12:33):
they just don't want to divert from much. But and and um both cod and hadock aren't
the most um abundant fish in our area, are they? Not in our area. And to be honest, cod
is not uh it's a cold water fish. the quality increases the colder the water
(12:58):
it's so our seas are warming. Yeah. So the cod are going further away.
They're going further away. And um fish are prone to the odd worm in
them. Right. Um and uh
I Yes. There can be, you know, Cornish cod is okay,
(13:23):
but the best quality cod is from colder
waters. So, North Sea, keep going. Okay. Norwegian, Icelandic, go right up the
top of Norway and go turn right into the Barren Sea, which is sort of Norway,
Russia waters. That is prime. We So
(13:49):
we we get our COD um certified through MSC
marine marine stewardship council right who um in my opinion and I'm happy for
anyone to say oh no they're a bunch of roters is um the gold standard for
(14:09):
sustainability. Okay. Um they
uh the fishing the fisheries up there are really well managed. So quotas go up
and down at the mo the last two years they've been going down. Um there's been
major problems with those naughty ruskies going into Ukraine because
(14:35):
no one wanted to buy any Russian fish. And before
before then, you know, the UK industry bought a mixture of Russian fish,
Norwegian fish, Icelandic fish, whatever. But good guys didn't really
want to buy Russian after they were nasty to innocent Ukraine. And um
(14:59):
so suddenly the price of fish went through the roof because the supply was
so small. but had had really significantly shrunk but the demand was
still there. So the price went up. So that's that's that's been a challenge.
Um it's also created opportunities because
(15:25):
um Cornish fish when I started off was quite expensive. Well no sorry it was
quite cheap to start off with. Um just as I pollock I just remember really a
early days we're in 20067 and I thought
(15:46):
I want to sell some Cornish pollock. It's a lovely fish. Is pock similar to cod?
It is. It's smaller flakes. Okay. Um it's not quite so white but it's it's
got a lovely sweet taste to it. And uh I mean cod
looks good, but it it is it hasn't got much taste.
(16:09):
That's why chefs are always putting it in fancy sauces. On its own, it doesn't.
A bit of mackerel has got, you know, so much taste. But if you just grilled a
bit of cod, you'd think, what's the taste? There isn't any. It is. So it it is a
(16:30):
it it is yeah it's a fish that hasn't got most taste. Um so but it's very
popular but the pollock um I got some lovely pollock and it was all sort of
handcaught in St. Ives Bay and the price rides and all right let's go for it
(16:52):
and uh it just fell flat. I just I you know the price I could afford to put it on
significantly lower than COD but no one wanted it. And then
um the celebrity chefs got involved and uh
Hugh Fernly weird things done. Mhm. And Jamie Oliver got involved and there
(17:18):
were like programs about trying other fish. And the next year I from sort of
selling 50 60 portions of Pock the next year I
sold over 3,000. Wow. All because of celebrity chef saying
why don't you try something different? Excellent. So I Yeah, I'm not a massive fan of
(17:42):
celebrities but I I just I like the power. They helped out. Yeah, absolutely. So,
so tell me about um uh the different there's there's a structure of fish that
are good and sustainable uh and ones
(18:04):
that aren't and who I think is it the wildlife trust have a a um a fish chart,
right? And then the MSC have a fish chart. Tell me about that. I don't I'm making up
right the first thing is you can um MSC gets confused with MCS
(18:25):
right so MSC we've talked about the marine stewardship council and they uh they
grade they assess individual fisheries and uh certify that they are sustainable
or not right okay so if if you see the MSC eco label
(18:46):
wherever you are in fish and chip shop or in little in the frozen counter, you
know that fish is that eco label you can trust. Okay.
The MCS and Marine Conservation Society
um who are based in Hon, not Hon
(19:08):
River. Um they look at fish throughout the whole world and grade it from one to
five, right? Um five is in the red. So not good.
Not good. Okay. Um one is you eat lot there's plenty of
(19:29):
it. It's well it's well managed. The fisheries. So I was looking through the MCS.
Yeah. which is the Marine Conservation Society. Yeah. I was looking through their grading. Yeah. And there's very
few one or twos, isn't there? They're mostly three, fours, and fives. Yes. Which suggests that um Well, are people
(19:54):
Where would cod be on that list? Is that three or four? No. Cod will probably be about two.
Oh, okay. Right. The fisheries would probably be about two. the if I could
not complicate things. So we I've talked we started with the
uh marine MSC right marine stewardship council we then
(20:18):
talked about the marine conservation start one to5 and then we are really lucky in Cornwall
cuz we've got the Cornwall good s seafood guide which is maintained by uh
the Cornwall wildlife trust right I I thought wildlife trough was all in
(20:41):
land and just you know squirrels. I thought it was just squirrels in the trees and all that
and nes in the pond, but no, they they it's a Cornish waters are
very much in it and uh worked with them for many a year and they do an amazing
job because uh the marine conservation society have
(21:04):
got limited funds and they're trying to think of the whole world. M Cornwall is a very small part of the
whole world and the corn Cornwall good seafood guide
with the credibility of the Cornwall wildlife trust behind it um produce a guide which has more local
(21:26):
knowledge coming in. So um they use as a template the MCS's grading 1 to5
but they superimpose a local knowledge on that. Brilliant. And because so all of these
for um all of these guides are online that people can have a look at and I just could not I it is a it's a
(21:52):
lovely site to look at. It's amazing. And you know these 51 varieties of fish
that they land at New um it's there and it it's it's all got grading and advice
on good to eat fish. I never even knew this was a thing until until you told me which I'm you know I I
I had a look through it and it's it's totally changed my view on on you know
(22:16):
what's available and maybe what I'm going to put on my plate the next time. So for us, so we we have a fish policy
which was one of the bits of fish buying policy which was one of the bits of evidence
about later. Yeah. Um but for us um we'll only buy fish in
(22:37):
um from one to three. Yeah. Um, very occasionally we'll buy a
four if we want to just try and get people to try a different fish.
Um, we would never buy five. And I that sort of sits well with me
actually. Yeah, I like that. So, right. So, it's not just fish in a fish and chip shop.
(23:02):
Tell me about your chips.
Well, they're tricky.
Um, fish is the easy one.
Potato's a potato surely.
(23:25):
Um, the perfect chipping potato
is quite a rare commodity. Um, it's got to
be a decent size. Um, when fried, it can't go too dark.
(23:45):
Um, it needs to be able to keep in the hot
box once it's sort of fried. You know, it may be sitting there for 20 minutes.
So, it can't deteriorate while it's in the box. Um, the taste has got to be
right. Um, ideally it doesn't take too much work to
(24:10):
get rid of all the eyes in it and the green bits and the things like that. Um
and but it is an organic thing and uh it can
deteriorate um it quite quickly if it's not stored
in the the right uh environment. Um, I know people enjoying the sun at
(24:37):
the moment, but I'm one of these rare people that actually does a dance when it rains
because potatoes need sun and rain in equal
proportions. And I know everyone, oh, it's sunny, great, Coral's a lovely
place. But the farmers are having a kicking. Um, and they just want some
(25:00):
rain. and the rain produces the it bulks up and so the price that we would pay
for a potato comes down if they get a bigger yield out of every acre. So that
all works together but the biggest thing that I'd like to share with you and it's
not a trade secret because it's just potatoes only grow in the ground.
(25:25):
They're put in two crops and the first crop comes out of the ground in
late June normally. And so if you walk into a chip shop about now, you should
be eating chips and they're they're sort of it would have been fresh out the ground and it'll be nice and sweet.
(25:49):
You go, "Oh, this is good." Then they put in a second crop which is harvested
uh probably no later than the end of October before the winter sort of comes
in and then those potatoes go into storage.
So we've got they come out the ground at the latest the end of October and those
(26:14):
spuds are now in storage until the beginning of July.
That's quite a few months, isn't it? So, um, how those potatoes are kept in
storage is really important. Um, they used to in the big warehouses
(26:36):
spray it with some chemicals that just sent the um the potatoes to sleep
nicely, right? Which was like good. But
a cleverer person than me decided that uh what they were spraying potentially
was carcenic. So that was out of the way. And so the
(26:59):
potato merchants are now having to spray um
I think it's an essence of mint, but it's very natural. It's not going to
do you any harm. M um but it means that I mean if you can imagine a little potato it's sat there
(27:19):
it wants to sprout it wants to do things but it's like a kid you know sit there
don't move don't do anything sprout for seven months or eight months just
sit there and shut up. A potato doesn't want to do that. So
basically within the fish and chip industry from
(27:43):
February onwards, life gets quite challenging because
you've you've you're dealing with potato you've got to turn these potatoes that
maybe want to do what plants do and grow and they you've got to turn them into
(28:05):
really nice chips. And you know, the average, no one coming in, probably one in a hundred people would understand
that that potato has been in storage for months cuz that's the cycle of potatoes
coming out of the ground. This is all brand new to me. No, no one would know. But, you know, in the fish and chip industry,
(28:25):
you want good quality chips whether you come whether you're coming in in April or whenever whatever the month is. But
in the back it's like there's a lot of work going on
and a lot of potatoes having to be rejected and um conversations with the
potato suppliers. So so so the the your potato suppliers are fairly close to you.
(28:51):
Yeah. You like to shop local? Yeah. Yeah. No. What? They're all they're all Cornwall based. Um
yeah, it's a competitive market. I never even realized that there was uh I never
even thought about it. Never even thought about it. The the the two yields a year and what happens for the rest of
the year. That's so interesting. Um but I want to move on. We've looked at
(29:16):
fish. We've looked at chips. I'd like to talk about oil because this is fascinating because I know you're um
an oil afficionado. Well, no. I I just it's it a few years
ago we had uh it it started coming onto the news all over the place that palm
oil was the worst thing in the world ever and we all needed to stop using palm oil and um previous to speaking to
(29:43):
you um a month or so ago um I had read some information about how palm oil if
sourced responsibly is not a bad thing. In fact, it's it's a
great product. Um, and then speaking to you after that, you've sort of confirmed
(30:05):
what I had read there. Tell me tell me about that.
Um, it's it's a story that it's very easy. Oh, Palmour's really
bad. You know it's you know the uranga tangs in Indonesia are being pushed out
and deforestation deforest and they have been
(30:30):
and there is there is sort of open acknowledgment that they have been
but in practical sustainability
has to be an acknowledgment of we're not We are in the present. What's
happened has happened. Um we can learn from the past but we can't
(30:55):
change the past. So this is this is where we practically are. Um our
Yes. So some bad decisions may have been made in the past but we are where we are
and the the practical environments uh
conservationist acknowledge this fact and
(31:22):
what what they are saying is that in essence you can't put the genie back in
the bottle. What's happened has happened. So and this is big conservation. This is the wild world wildlife trust.
Yeah. So this is so they they are they are doing a practical thing. Now
palm oil producers in the past acted
(31:46):
irresponsibly. So that is open. You can't change that.
But what how palm oil differs from other oils is that it's ridiculously
um there's a high yield for every acre. Um
(32:10):
five six times like grape seed oil. So grape seed oil is probably the most
common alternative thing that we could fry our fish and chips in. But to get the same
yield as palm oil, you would have to grab five or six times amount of acres.
(32:32):
And we know what the planet's like. And with population growing, um, does the
world want whole counties of rape and no one's allowed to build a house? So whatever.
So it it's an the the conservationists have acknowledged that what happened in
(32:52):
the bas wasn't brilliant but we are where we are and going forward as long
as palm oil can be produced in a sustainable way
then that is the best way to to move forward especially as I mean the
population of the world is going to go up. it it is it is peaking but it's
(33:16):
still going to go up some more. They do need feeding. Um and so sustainable
um palm oil plantations is a better way of doing it than let's say going going
rapy. Um am I being controversial saying that? I
(33:37):
don't think so. So I've read this in um in various research and I so
what before I make a decision to do something and this is this was sort of quite a big
one I did I put my own research in and uh
(33:58):
I just didn't realize that zoos were actually some of them in the back
offices did quite a lot and Chester Zoo I'm sure I've got a couple elephants and
a flamingo outside, but in the back there's massive offices that they are
doing loads of really good conservation work. and they
(34:21):
they uh set up Chester as a the first uh
sustainable palm oil city and started to talk to uh
environmental conservationists and pretty soon
(34:42):
um it's all online. um the environmental agencies like the
World Wildlife Trust um fund. No, WF
WWF W World Wildlife Fund is it? Yeah. Um
orangutang protection leagues and all that. It's all listed on their website.
(35:07):
All said, "Yep, use pal palm oil sustainable palm oil." And there's an or R SPO
round table of sustainable palm oil producers or whatever is what everyone's
signing up to a code of conduct. It won't be perfect because there'll be people
(35:29):
break you know trying to do green wash or whatever but it's
to me I I don't lose any sleep at night. it is the best way forward to keep
feeding the the the world's population. So, we've looked at fish, we've looked
at chips, we've looked at the oil you're cooking in them. Um, let's have a quick
(35:56):
look at packaging. Your packaging. Yeah, absolutely. because that is um in in my
understanding um there's a lot of great materials coming out, but as soon as you taint
them with oil or with food or with then they're not
(36:17):
recyclable or um or they they don't go to the same place or some materials are
coming out that are biodedegradable in inverted commas, But
they're only biodegradable at one place in the top of Scotland that only takes
in a ton a year or some No. Exactly. Right. So um
(36:43):
um the fish and chip industry got sort of
shamed to move away from um you know the polyyrene trays too like
you know you've got to find some biodegradable packaging and we we adopted it really early um and
(37:08):
it was yeah no to get away from polyarene, especially as it's made from
petroleum products and it it's not it doesn't degrade. It it it doesn't degrade was,
you know, a definitely a good thing to to move away from a product that comes from the prochemical industry
(37:29):
to go to something biodegradable that's made from, you know, the offcuts of sugar beads or
whatever is is great. My my beef is that
there was this pressure for people to do that for food operators to do that but
(37:51):
the local councils around the UK didn't provide facilities.
Um they can at home if if you put biodegrad if you have fish and chips
from a decent place and it's biodegradable. My understanding is you can put that into your food waste bin
(38:14):
at home. But if you are eating fish and chips or anything out and about and you
go to a council bin just goes to the incinerator. It just goes to the incinerator. So
um but again am I sort a little bit of evidence you know there are places
(38:36):
around the world where they do take it more seriously
and councils do provide more but
we all know how strapped Cornwall council is of cash. Um, and
you know, the option is a big bin. Everything goes in there. Dead sea
(38:59):
girls, every everything goes in there. Um, and
yeah, it goes off to the incinerator, which is sad. So I I'm I'm glad that you
can at home, but you know, probably the vast majority of our people buying our
fish and chips would be on the prom in Pensand or down and then throwing it in the bin. Yeah.
(39:22):
So we're going to move on to your evidence now. Um and uh it what we're
going to do is we're going to give you one minute to speak about uh each of your pieces of evidence. Alex over there
has got the alarm. Show us the alarm, Alex. There we go. Um,
that's like at the pass there's food to go out. Yeah. Ding. You'll be running across there to get to
(39:47):
grab a plate. So, yeah. Um, so your first bit of evidence uh and you have
one minute to talk on this is your Harbor Lights fish buying policy 2025
written by uh by the Harbor Lights. Um I think it's good to have on our
website you know how we source our fish. Um I it is important to us. Um we have
(40:13):
talked about it. Um uh my hope is that
whatever fish we sell is totally sustainable. Um there are challenges.
There will always be local fish in our shops. Um the cod and hadock which are
just so popular for fish and chip eaters in the UK. Um
(40:37):
Cornwall cannot produce enough for our customers. So we go to the most
sustainable thing. So we use MSC for our coden hadock. Um I can't promote
the cornal good seafood guide enough to bring in that variety and tell you what
good fish to eat. Um, there you go. Yeah, it's our guideline.
(41:00):
Excellent. I like that. So, the next one is the recommended species list um from
the good uh Cornwall good seafood guide. Yeah. No, it's it is this guy called
Matt Slater and his team at the Cornwall Wildlife Trust in in the woods in Allet
(41:20):
just north of Truro just do amazing good. And I I I was lucky enough to be
involved right at the beginning with them. It was something that I'd just been patiently waiting for and I just
Cornwall finally got some funding and it is just such an amazing asset.
Please use it and learn about fish and be brave. Brilliant. Brilliant. And
(41:49):
that's almost like you planned that. That was exactly a minute there. So, your next piece of evidence is the
sustainable palm oil statement by Chester Zoo.
Well, we've chatted about that. Um, I I just
want to I totally get people saying that palm oil
(42:12):
has caused a lot of problem to the planet. Um and but it is that you can't put the
genie back in the bottle and a practical application of this is where we are.
Sustainable palm oil is is okay.
(42:33):
You're not being a bad person by as long as it's sustainable as long as it's got the correct marks on it.
Yeah. And it's look for RSPO. [Music] Excellent. And the next one is the
consumer fish buying behavior report by the University of Exter and uh the
harbor lights. I we're blessed in Felmouth to have like
(43:00):
the Tremo campus up above us and there's some really bright cookies there and
there are all these scientists and uh
I just tapped into them and I just found a little grant and I said could you go
and do some research for me because it's really important for me personally that
(43:24):
our customers are encouraged to try different foods uh different fish. So,
you know, could you use your academic brains to find the best practices and
exactly what people what is driving people's decisions? And they produced a
really interesting read, I think. And that's amazing.
(43:47):
He's very aggressive with his very aggressive with his dinging.
This is his favorite part of the week. This is so interesting. uh that uh behavior bio
report I guess uh other fish and chip shops tap into that and oh well they very well could I
it's all online isn't it? I probably need to get it more out there. Okay.
(44:11):
Um well maybe we can um with your permission we can put that onto our website for people to have a look at.
Yeah. No, please do. That would be amazing. Um, and then the um the the one
I've got here is the Sunday Times feature on the Harbor Lights.
Um, that was just a I'm not putting that in to show off. It's uh that was that
(44:38):
was just for any sort of business owners. If you do something a little bit different, it is possible to get some
really good PR. And I probably went for a pint of cider and came up with that
one one night and it didn't do us any harm and we've
talked about it. It was a really good thing to to have our COD-Free week. Um
(45:03):
the papers just picked up on it and off we went and we had some great PR.
Excellent. Excellent. And as I said, all of these bits of evidence will be uh available on the website for people to
have a look at. Now, we're going to look at um your top achievable tips for
people. And again, we're going to go for the minute cuz Alex likes dinging the bell. Um
(45:28):
so, your first one is try a new fish species each month.
That's what I'm saying. And I'm saying be brave. Um, we've said what where you find it.
So, Google the Cormal good seafood guide and just work through some fish on that.
(45:49):
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. And what um and there's so the the
Cornwall good fish good seafood guide is the one for people in Cornwall maybe
Devon as well but uh for people around the world it was the MSC. It was the No, that was
MCS. MCS, Marine Conservation Society, also have a a good seafood guide.
(46:13):
Excellent. Um, the next one was, "Give the top,
give the big five a miss. Cod, hadock, prawns, salmon, salmon, and tuna. What
on earth do we eat?" Wow. Now, what is is that linked? We've just
(46:34):
done that one or So, that's the that's your top tips is to is to give well give them a miss
to to give them a miss. You know, it's all linked to being brave. You know, you don't have just, you know, piece. If you
were to do fun going off top five, what would you what would you put up there without hitting those ones?
(46:54):
Oh, that's an interesting one. I've just been lucky enough to be in Greece and I just love octopus and
squid. Anything with a little tentacle, I tend to And those are f those are sustainable. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Um Cornish hake is probably
(47:15):
a really, you know, it's a reasonably priced fish. It is beautiful.
What sort of is that a strong fish or No, no, it's it's it's got more taste
than cod. Tastes crazy fishious, isn't he?
So, it's got more taste than cod. It's got more taste than cod. And it's Yeah, it's it's a beautiful fish. Please
(47:41):
try and uh try and get one from the middle of the fish. So, the loin the the
tails can get a bit shaggly. Go for the loin. Okay. Um and just before we move on, you
serve a vegan fish. vegan fish has just
really taken off I think cuz f that was sort of mostly in Felmouth but the other
(48:03):
shops do it as well. So tofu we marinate
in uh a brine and lemon solution overnight.
Um, then it's wrapped in nori seaweed, the sort of Japanese seaweed,
and then it's deep fried. And some people curly
(48:28):
say it tastes fishier than fish. Well, interestingly, I was in a
because of the seaweed. I was in a vegan restaurant a few years ago in Truro and they did a um what was
it now? Um, banana blossom. Yes. And um they did a similar process.
They marinated it and wrapped it in seaweed and then battered it. And I had
(48:51):
to say to the to the to the owner, "Is this is this fish?" And she said,
"No, everything we do here is vegan." And I I had to question whether it was fish.
So, uh interesting. Um then the um the lowwaist meals. So, root to peel. um
root to peel head to tail. Tell me about that.
(49:16):
Well, I just whether it's sort of too many
ready meals, I just you get something and just there so much
food wastage because they don't you know these these top restaurants. Uh one of
(49:36):
my son Logan, one of my sons Logan went up to uh quite a famous meat Patanosta
Chop House. It was where
that was a TV program up there, but they they just brought in half a cow or
quarter of a cow and just used it all. And then the bones went into this stock
(50:00):
pot that was sort of bigger than us two together. and just things were just
dropped in and it was just boiling away. Their gravy was just exceptional. But there was just
zero wastage. And so I Yes, it's just as human beings, I
(50:21):
just think we sort of only pick what we like and just so much is thrown away.
Um, I remember having a go at making some booze out of
potato peelings once and it did work. It was mildly alcoholic.
(50:41):
I think he forgot the bell then. He didn't. Well, cuz he was Well, he wanted he wanted some potato
vod. What do they call that? Pine, didn't they? Yeah. Remember the last time I
drank pine? I fell over. Um anyway, we won't go we won't go into that. So, um
the next one on your list is support local. Um look at an item a week or buy
(51:06):
an item a week from um from your region.
I mean, I know this is going out to other places and Cornwall, um, but I
just love the rise of local food producers and farm shops and isn't it
great? Absolutely. Um, I know it's a bit more expensive
(51:32):
than going to Tesco's little or whatever, but wow, the quality. I go to
a lovely farm shop just along the road here and uh yeah, the the the the
flavors the difference between flavors from buying a you know something from a
a supermarket and something from a farm shop is is quite different, isn't it? Um yes, I'm I'm a meat eater. So like
(51:59):
bacon, I just supermarket bacon versus, you know, a proper
Yeah. slice of bacon and it's just straight a different world, isn't it? It is.
Absolutely. Um, so spend 10 minutes with your council's
waste guide. Yeah, I
(52:25):
I just think too much goes into general waste
and uh you know if
the councils are obliged to process it if it is divided
and I know it's a little bit more work but I just it's because everything goes
(52:49):
goes into general waste. It's just like I'm I'm like the recycling officer at
home and I don't mind it at all. Um it just
seems the right thing to do, but I just I know people get annoyed. Oh, there's
too many pins and just whatever. But it is helping.
(53:12):
Yeah. And for for the sake of reading through the uh literature quite quickly,
it's quite important to uh to do that. So um tell us uh how we can get in
contact with you. So we've got the Harbor Lights restaurant. You've got two
other Frasers fish and chip shops on the prom in Pensands.
(53:36):
Okay. Uh which is a lovely site. Um and hometown Helston. one in Hston as well.
One in Hston. And then you've got the uh what's your Hawaiian one called again? Kona on on Event Square in
which I've actually been to. It was very pleasant. Um we had a crazy night there
(53:56):
last night. It was a a comedy theater group. Just did a like
a Paul Dark themed comedy. It wasn't a murder mystery. It was a heist. Some
jewels had got stolen and there were 40 50 of us having a three course dinner
being entertained by these three guy guys and girls. Such amazing.
(54:19):
It was it was lots of fun last night. Excellent. And then you're on LinkedIn
probably. Yes. Instagram. Yeah. No, and I just love chatting to people. So if anyone wants to talk to me
about anything, I won't hide away. Amazing. So the last but not least, one
thing that we can all do today to make a better tomorrow and uh help to find that
(54:45):
greener room to me
is um we just take life too seriously
and I don't think it does us or the planet
too much good. I think there are some big challenges that the planet has and us
(55:12):
all individually going through our lives have. But
I the the power of just being able to
have a laugh is it diffuses situations.
Um, it reduces confrontation and I think you're more likely to get a
(55:38):
result. Um, just shouting at people all the time and
being cross doesn't work isn't my style, but I
Yeah. I just feel that a lighter touch and I I sort of checked you out and I
gathered you in the past you were involved in laughter company or something. Yeah, I did a pair of
(56:02):
laughter yoga for about 16 years. Yeah. No, the there's the the the it's
actually in my book, you know, just laughter. And I was amazed to read when
I was researching for my book that you can actually even forced laughter.
When you force yourself to laugh, your body can't tell the difference between that and natural laughter. It has the
(56:25):
same effect. Fake it, fake it till you make it. we used to.
So yeah, I just I I may get, you know, my
kids obviously just dad just calm down, but I just try and see how much laughter
I can fit in the day. Really is so important. So important. They say that
(56:47):
uh that uh adults um children will laugh several hundred times a day and adults
can laugh sometimes well on average less than 40. Um, and that's a a massive difference,
isn't it? I think we all need to laugh a little bit more. What a great way to especially at ourselves.
(57:08):
Absolutely. What a great way to end the show, Pete. Pete the chip. Thank you so much for coming on the
show. Thank you so much for what you're doing for the planet. Thank you so much what you're doing for the people. And
um, thank you for coming on. Searching for a greenery. early. I I thought you might
ask one question. I just quite often I just how are you feeling at the start of a thing and I if you had asked me at the
(57:34):
beginning uh what are you thinking Pete? What word comes to your mind? I would have said
honored. So thank you very much. I think this is a great tool for improving the planet. Well done
you. Thank you so much. Thank you. That's it for this episode of Searching for a Green Room. We'd love to hear your
(57:54):
thoughts. Let us know what you think, who you'd like to hear from, any topics you want us to cover. Drop us a comment.
Don't forget to like and subscribe so you never miss an episode. See you next time.
One of the UK's busiest fishing ports, New in Cornwall, lands over 50 species
of fish. Most Brits will only ever eat five of them. Hi, I'm Curly Steve and I'm
searching for a greener room. [Music]
(00:24):
Today we're joined by Pete Fraser, otherwise known as Pete the Chip.
a former Royal Navy helicopter observer and now sustainability trailblazer in
the fish and chip world. Pete, welcome to the show. Thank you, Curly, for the invite.
It's great to have you here. Now, uh, let's just rewind a minute. I'd like to take you back to your childhood and
(00:48):
maybe you could tell me where you're from and, uh, what and what your childhood was like.
Um, very happy childhood. um very close family. Uh my father was
working down in the chemical industry down in Cornwall and so I was born at
home in a lovely village called Perinathnau. Mhm. Down by Marazion and uh I was there for
(01:14):
the first three years of my life and then we moved around a little bit but for the majority of my childhood I was
on the banks of the tempames in a town called Maiden Head. Okay. a very happy time. Um, very
conventional school, university, uh, first job up in Liverpool, uh, in
(01:37):
the early days of the computer industry, uh, graduate 1981. It was it was a crazy
time, but I had then 19 very happy years in the Navy. originally
um I haven't got brilliant coordination but I've really fancied flying and I had
(01:57):
quite a had a maths degree so they quite they put me in the back of uh seeking
helicopters running all the weapon systems for tracking submarines got married four
kids popped out um age 40 with uh one of
my best mates in the Navy bought a fish and chip shop. We had Harbor Lights for
(02:22):
3 years, then bought Killing Bay Beach Cafe and we ran both simultaneously,
which worked well. Um, but then sort of nature take its course. I we needed to I
wouldn't have been brave enough to buy a business as big as Harbor Lights on my own, right?
Um, so it was great to have a partner for that and we could sort of share our
(02:45):
mistakes. about after 5 years we had got sufficient maturity that maybe two best
friends aren't necessarily the best business partners cuz we didn't really
want to make each other cry or anything like that. So there was a a very amicable business
divorce after 5 years and luckily we had two great assets. So um my partner Simon
(03:12):
kept the beach bought us out of the beach and we just concentrated in the fish and chip shop and
my separate both of them had sort of doubled their turnover within 3 years. They we just it was holding us back. The
partnership was great to get us going, but once we got our confidence, we needed direction and and and so
(03:36):
in terms of business, that's when sort of harbor lights and fish and chips
and sustainability really took off when I had sole control of what was
important. So, let's look into the sustainability side of things now. Um
what where where did you feel that it was time to start becoming
(04:00):
sustainability and what was the sort of do you was there a catalyst or did it just come organically? How did how did
that happen? I just hate being in a pack. I prefer to
be at the front. That's fair enough. And
I just there wasn't enough. I I' I'd had so much help. it. Luckily, choosing fish
(04:25):
and chips, it is the friendliest industry in the world. If you operate in the same town as
another fish and chip shop owner, sometimes it's all a bit kgy, but if you
operate in a different town from someone, it is just so friendly. They just share every bit of knowledge
they've got. Mhm. Um, and that's the help that I had to
(04:50):
start from the industry was great. I just discovered though that
sustainability was just down here. No one was talking
about it. Um it all started the there's an organization called Sea Fish who um I
(05:11):
don't know if you know but it's funded every bit of fish that comes into the UK
um whether it's caught and sold at a market or whether it's imported prawns
from Thailand or whatever um has a sir charge maybe half a percent of the value
of what whatever but this this organization Sea Fish is there and it's
(05:37):
got scientists and it's got a training safety training and promoting fish
sales. I think they maybe scoop about 6 8 million a year from this this charge
of fish um a levy from fish coming into the UK. So they they were based up in
(05:57):
Edinburgh and I remember it was had my business divorce in 2005. So it's
like late 2005 early 2006. I just pick up the phone to sea fish and
I just said could I speak to someone about I just want to source our fish as
(06:19):
responsibly as possible. could I could I speak to you know
someone someone and it just went quiet at the end of the phone. This was only 20 years ago.
Well, yeah, we might have someone and it was just it just didn't appear to be on
(06:42):
the radar and I just thought, "Oh, this is interesting."
So I then chatted more and I found about two or
three other fish and chip shops. I mean there's in those days there were probably 10 12,000
fish and chip shops in the country. It is sadly shrinking all the time, but I
(07:07):
probably only found two or three other fish and chip shops 20 years ago that
I could have a meaningful conversation about sourcing fish sustainably. Yeah.
Um and so yeah, no, that just sent me off and I went so it it went from there.
Um and I just thought I really want to do this and the nice
(07:34):
thing about fish and chips is that and probably we'll come on to this as well.
Uh you we have a lot of customers. Harbor Lights has sort of grown in size. Uh,
and you know, we could fill up Wembley Stadium with the number of people that come into our shop every year. And so
(07:56):
you have a chance to educate, but um, no one on the planet likes being
preached to and and fish and chip should be a uplifting experience. So, um,
getting messages across in fun ways about sustainability was was always I'm
(08:19):
in a great industry and uh there's lots of fun to be had.
So, what did before we go on to the fund, which I'm I'd like to talk about that some more. What does sustainability
with fish look like to you? What what are you looking for when you're talking
about bringing a bit of fish into your restaurant?
(08:43):
Can I just go back one to what really cemented it in? I just to have fun. I uh
I decided to get myself a cod outfit. So, and I tried in this country, but I
couldn't I just couldn't find anyone that would make a fish outfit of
(09:04):
sufficient quality. So, you wanted to dress up like a cod cod to to just dance around and have
some fun. Yeah. But Amazon wasn't going in those days everywhere. I don't eBay wouldn't have
been. I just couldn't find a someone that would make me a really good quality cod outfit. So in the end I don't I
(09:25):
found someone in Oregon in America and eventually this big package came across
and it was my COD outfit and I I sort of put that on and had some
fun. And one thing I did was I just wanted to go out into
my kids primary school and it obviously embarrass them. Mhm.
(09:48):
Cuz that's the role of dads do. That's what dads do. So I went there
under the guise of just chatting to kids about sustainability and fish and
they were only 8 ny old so they were up for a bit of fun this sixoot cod dancing
into their classroom and I just remember one time I was in
(10:15):
there and I just asked an open question you know
what does sustain ustainability mean to you? I wanted to hear what an eight or
nineyear-old said. And this one lad said, "I really enjoy
my fish and chips. I want my grandchildren to enjoy them as well."
(10:40):
Oh, beautiful. And I just went, "Oh, that cemented it all." Yeah. Yeah.
It needed an eight or nine year old kid to really go right. Wow. an 8 to nine year old kid thinking
about grandchildren is that's that's pretty special. Yeah, it was. Yeah. So,
uh so it it sort of it went on. Yeah, it went on from there. I I diverted. Well,
(11:03):
how do I how do we we've got
um the trouble with the British compared to the let's say the French or
the Spanish is that we're not very bra. We might be brave on the battlefield, but we're not very
brave with with what we put in our mouths. That's interesting. So, we're not very
(11:28):
adventurous when it comes to trying new things. No, it it's it is just the five
is cod, hadock, salmon, tuna, and prawns. Okay. Other five. And that accounts for 90% of
the the fish that goes in people's mouths in the UK. Um, New Lin Harbor
(11:50):
lands over 50 different species of fish, but the vast majority go straight over
to the continent because there isn't a market in this country. Interesting. So, we are,
as much as we've always got other fish, we're always trying to encourage people
(12:12):
to try other fish. But the British are
fixed rigidly. If I want fish and chips, in the south it's cod and in the north
is hadock. Okay? and they just don't want to um
(12:33):
they just don't want to divert from much. But and and um both cod and hadock aren't
the most um abundant fish in our area, are they? Not in our area. And to be honest, cod
is not uh it's a cold water fish. the quality increases the colder the water
(12:58):
it's so our seas are warming. Yeah. So the cod are going further away.
They're going further away. And um fish are prone to the odd worm in
them. Right. Um and uh
I Yes. There can be, you know, Cornish cod is okay,
(13:23):
but the best quality cod is from colder
waters. So, North Sea, keep going. Okay. Norwegian, Icelandic, go right up the
top of Norway and go turn right into the Barren Sea, which is sort of Norway,
Russia waters. That is prime. We So
(13:49):
we we get our COD um certified through MSC
marine marine stewardship council right who um in my opinion and I'm happy for
anyone to say oh no they're a bunch of roters is um the gold standard for
(14:09):
sustainability. Okay. Um they
uh the fishing the fisheries up there are really well managed. So quotas go up
and down at the mo the last two years they've been going down. Um there's been
major problems with those naughty ruskies going into Ukraine because
(14:35):
no one wanted to buy any Russian fish. And before
before then, you know, the UK industry bought a mixture of Russian fish,
Norwegian fish, Icelandic fish, whatever. But good guys didn't really
want to buy Russian after they were nasty to innocent Ukraine. And um
(14:59):
so suddenly the price of fish went through the roof because the supply was
so small. but had had really significantly shrunk but the demand was
still there. So the price went up. So that's that's that's been a challenge.
Um it's also created opportunities because
(15:25):
um Cornish fish when I started off was quite expensive. Well no sorry it was
quite cheap to start off with. Um just as I pollock I just remember really a
early days we're in 20067 and I thought
(15:46):
I want to sell some Cornish pollock. It's a lovely fish. Is pock similar to cod?
It is. It's smaller flakes. Okay. Um it's not quite so white but it's it's
got a lovely sweet taste to it. And uh I mean cod
looks good, but it it is it hasn't got much taste.
(16:09):
That's why chefs are always putting it in fancy sauces. On its own, it doesn't.
A bit of mackerel has got, you know, so much taste. But if you just grilled a
bit of cod, you'd think, what's the taste? There isn't any. It is. So it it is a
(16:30):
it it is yeah it's a fish that hasn't got most taste. Um so but it's very
popular but the pollock um I got some lovely pollock and it was all sort of
handcaught in St. Ives Bay and the price rides and all right let's go for it
(16:52):
and uh it just fell flat. I just I you know the price I could afford to put it on
significantly lower than COD but no one wanted it. And then
um the celebrity chefs got involved and uh
Hugh Fernly weird things done. Mhm. And Jamie Oliver got involved and there
(17:18):
were like programs about trying other fish. And the next year I from sort of
selling 50 60 portions of Pock the next year I
sold over 3,000. Wow. All because of celebrity chef saying
why don't you try something different? Excellent. So I Yeah, I'm not a massive fan of
(17:42):
celebrities but I I just I like the power. They helped out. Yeah, absolutely. So,
so tell me about um uh the different there's there's a structure of fish that
are good and sustainable uh and ones
(18:04):
that aren't and who I think is it the wildlife trust have a a um a fish chart,
right? And then the MSC have a fish chart. Tell me about that. I don't I'm making up
right the first thing is you can um MSC gets confused with MCS
(18:25):
right so MSC we've talked about the marine stewardship council and they uh they
grade they assess individual fisheries and uh certify that they are sustainable
or not right okay so if if you see the MSC eco label
(18:46):
wherever you are in fish and chip shop or in little in the frozen counter, you
know that fish is that eco label you can trust. Okay.
The MCS and Marine Conservation Society
um who are based in Hon, not Hon
(19:08):
River. Um they look at fish throughout the whole world and grade it from one to
five, right? Um five is in the red. So not good.
Not good. Okay. Um one is you eat lot there's plenty of
(19:29):
it. It's well it's well managed. The fisheries. So I was looking through the MCS.
Yeah. which is the Marine Conservation Society. Yeah. I was looking through their grading. Yeah. And there's very
few one or twos, isn't there? They're mostly three, fours, and fives. Yes. Which suggests that um Well, are people
(19:54):
Where would cod be on that list? Is that three or four? No. Cod will probably be about two.
Oh, okay. Right. The fisheries would probably be about two. the if I could
not complicate things. So we I've talked we started with the
uh marine MSC right marine stewardship council we then
(20:18):
talked about the marine conservation start one to5 and then we are really lucky in Cornwall
cuz we've got the Cornwall good s seafood guide which is maintained by uh
the Cornwall wildlife trust right I I thought wildlife trough was all in
(20:41):
land and just you know squirrels. I thought it was just squirrels in the trees and all that
and nes in the pond, but no, they they it's a Cornish waters are
very much in it and uh worked with them for many a year and they do an amazing
job because uh the marine conservation society have
(21:04):
got limited funds and they're trying to think of the whole world. M Cornwall is a very small part of the
whole world and the corn Cornwall good seafood guide
with the credibility of the Cornwall wildlife trust behind it um produce a guide which has more local
(21:26):
knowledge coming in. So um they use as a template the MCS's grading 1 to5
but they superimpose a local knowledge on that. Brilliant. And because so all of these
for um all of these guides are online that people can have a look at and I just could not I it is a it's a
(21:52):
lovely site to look at. It's amazing. And you know these 51 varieties of fish
that they land at New um it's there and it it's it's all got grading and advice
on good to eat fish. I never even knew this was a thing until until you told me which I'm you know I I
I had a look through it and it's it's totally changed my view on on you know
(22:16):
what's available and maybe what I'm going to put on my plate the next time. So for us, so we we have a fish policy
which was one of the bits of fish buying policy which was one of the bits of evidence
about later. Yeah. Um but for us um we'll only buy fish in
(22:37):
um from one to three. Yeah. Um, very occasionally we'll buy a
four if we want to just try and get people to try a different fish.
Um, we would never buy five. And I that sort of sits well with me
actually. Yeah, I like that. So, right. So, it's not just fish in a fish and chip shop.
(23:02):
Tell me about your chips.
Well, they're tricky.
Um, fish is the easy one.
Potato's a potato surely.
(23:25):
Um, the perfect chipping potato
is quite a rare commodity. Um, it's got to
be a decent size. Um, when fried, it can't go too dark.
(23:45):
Um, it needs to be able to keep in the hot
box once it's sort of fried. You know, it may be sitting there for 20 minutes.
So, it can't deteriorate while it's in the box. Um, the taste has got to be
right. Um, ideally it doesn't take too much work to
(24:10):
get rid of all the eyes in it and the green bits and the things like that. Um
and but it is an organic thing and uh it can
deteriorate um it quite quickly if it's not stored
in the the right uh environment. Um, I know people enjoying the sun at
(24:37):
the moment, but I'm one of these rare people that actually does a dance when it rains
because potatoes need sun and rain in equal
proportions. And I know everyone, oh, it's sunny, great, Coral's a lovely
place. But the farmers are having a kicking. Um, and they just want some
(25:00):
rain. and the rain produces the it bulks up and so the price that we would pay
for a potato comes down if they get a bigger yield out of every acre. So that
all works together but the biggest thing that I'd like to share with you and it's
not a trade secret because it's just potatoes only grow in the ground.
(25:25):
They're put in two crops and the first crop comes out of the ground in
late June normally. And so if you walk into a chip shop about now, you should
be eating chips and they're they're sort of it would have been fresh out the ground and it'll be nice and sweet.
(25:49):
You go, "Oh, this is good." Then they put in a second crop which is harvested
uh probably no later than the end of October before the winter sort of comes
in and then those potatoes go into storage.
So we've got they come out the ground at the latest the end of October and those
(26:14):
spuds are now in storage until the beginning of July.
That's quite a few months, isn't it? So, um, how those potatoes are kept in
storage is really important. Um, they used to in the big warehouses
(26:36):
spray it with some chemicals that just sent the um the potatoes to sleep
nicely, right? Which was like good. But
a cleverer person than me decided that uh what they were spraying potentially
was carcenic. So that was out of the way. And so the
(26:59):
potato merchants are now having to spray um
I think it's an essence of mint, but it's very natural. It's not going to
do you any harm. M um but it means that I mean if you can imagine a little potato it's sat there
(27:19):
it wants to sprout it wants to do things but it's like a kid you know sit there
don't move don't do anything sprout for seven months or eight months just
sit there and shut up. A potato doesn't want to do that. So
basically within the fish and chip industry from
(27:43):
February onwards, life gets quite challenging because
you've you've you're dealing with potato you've got to turn these potatoes that
maybe want to do what plants do and grow and they you've got to turn them into
(28:05):
really nice chips. And you know, the average, no one coming in, probably one in a hundred people would understand
that that potato has been in storage for months cuz that's the cycle of potatoes
coming out of the ground. This is all brand new to me. No, no one would know. But, you know, in the fish and chip industry,
(28:25):
you want good quality chips whether you come whether you're coming in in April or whenever whatever the month is. But
in the back it's like there's a lot of work going on
and a lot of potatoes having to be rejected and um conversations with the
potato suppliers. So so so the the your potato suppliers are fairly close to you.
(28:51):
Yeah. You like to shop local? Yeah. Yeah. No. What? They're all they're all Cornwall based. Um
yeah, it's a competitive market. I never even realized that there was uh I never
even thought about it. Never even thought about it. The the the two yields a year and what happens for the rest of
the year. That's so interesting. Um but I want to move on. We've looked at
(29:16):
fish. We've looked at chips. I'd like to talk about oil because this is fascinating because I know you're um
an oil afficionado. Well, no. I I just it's it a few years
ago we had uh it it started coming onto the news all over the place that palm
oil was the worst thing in the world ever and we all needed to stop using palm oil and um previous to speaking to
(29:43):
you um a month or so ago um I had read some information about how palm oil if
sourced responsibly is not a bad thing. In fact, it's it's a
great product. Um, and then speaking to you after that, you've sort of confirmed
(30:05):
what I had read there. Tell me tell me about that.
Um, it's it's a story that it's very easy. Oh, Palmour's really
bad. You know it's you know the uranga tangs in Indonesia are being pushed out
and deforestation deforest and they have been
(30:30):
and there is there is sort of open acknowledgment that they have been
but in practical sustainability
has to be an acknowledgment of we're not We are in the present. What's
happened has happened. Um we can learn from the past but we can't
(30:55):
change the past. So this is this is where we practically are. Um our
Yes. So some bad decisions may have been made in the past but we are where we are
and the the practical environments uh
conservationist acknowledge this fact and
(31:22):
what what they are saying is that in essence you can't put the genie back in
the bottle. What's happened has happened. So and this is big conservation. This is the wild world wildlife trust.
Yeah. So this is so they they are they are doing a practical thing. Now
palm oil producers in the past acted
(31:46):
irresponsibly. So that is open. You can't change that.
But what how palm oil differs from other oils is that it's ridiculously
um there's a high yield for every acre. Um
(32:10):
five six times like grape seed oil. So grape seed oil is probably the most
common alternative thing that we could fry our fish and chips in. But to get the same
yield as palm oil, you would have to grab five or six times amount of acres.
(32:32):
And we know what the planet's like. And with population growing, um, does the
world want whole counties of rape and no one's allowed to build a house? So whatever.
So it it's an the the conservationists have acknowledged that what happened in
(32:52):
the bas wasn't brilliant but we are where we are and going forward as long
as palm oil can be produced in a sustainable way
then that is the best way to to move forward especially as I mean the
population of the world is going to go up. it it is it is peaking but it's
(33:16):
still going to go up some more. They do need feeding. Um and so sustainable
um palm oil plantations is a better way of doing it than let's say going going
rapy. Um am I being controversial saying that? I
(33:37):
don't think so. So I've read this in um in various research and I so
what before I make a decision to do something and this is this was sort of quite a big
one I did I put my own research in and uh
(33:58):
I just didn't realize that zoos were actually some of them in the back
offices did quite a lot and Chester Zoo I'm sure I've got a couple elephants and
a flamingo outside, but in the back there's massive offices that they are
doing loads of really good conservation work. and they
(34:21):
they uh set up Chester as a the first uh
sustainable palm oil city and started to talk to uh
environmental conservationists and pretty soon
(34:42):
um it's all online. um the environmental agencies like the
World Wildlife Trust um fund. No, WF
WWF W World Wildlife Fund is it? Yeah. Um
orangutang protection leagues and all that. It's all listed on their website.
(35:07):
All said, "Yep, use pal palm oil sustainable palm oil." And there's an or R SPO
round table of sustainable palm oil producers or whatever is what everyone's
signing up to a code of conduct. It won't be perfect because there'll be people
(35:29):
break you know trying to do green wash or whatever but it's
to me I I don't lose any sleep at night. it is the best way forward to keep
feeding the the the world's population. So, we've looked at fish, we've looked
at chips, we've looked at the oil you're cooking in them. Um, let's have a quick
(35:56):
look at packaging. Your packaging. Yeah, absolutely. because that is um in in my
understanding um there's a lot of great materials coming out, but as soon as you taint
them with oil or with food or with then they're not
(36:17):
recyclable or um or they they don't go to the same place or some materials are
coming out that are biodedegradable in inverted commas, But
they're only biodegradable at one place in the top of Scotland that only takes
in a ton a year or some No. Exactly. Right. So um
(36:43):
um the fish and chip industry got sort of
shamed to move away from um you know the polyyrene trays too like
you know you've got to find some biodegradable packaging and we we adopted it really early um and
(37:08):
it was yeah no to get away from polyarene, especially as it's made from
petroleum products and it it's not it doesn't degrade. It it it doesn't degrade was,
you know, a definitely a good thing to to move away from a product that comes from the prochemical industry
(37:29):
to go to something biodegradable that's made from, you know, the offcuts of sugar beads or
whatever is is great. My my beef is that
there was this pressure for people to do that for food operators to do that but
(37:51):
the local councils around the UK didn't provide facilities.
Um they can at home if if you put biodegrad if you have fish and chips
from a decent place and it's biodegradable. My understanding is you can put that into your food waste bin
(38:14):
at home. But if you are eating fish and chips or anything out and about and you
go to a council bin just goes to the incinerator. It just goes to the incinerator. So
um but again am I sort a little bit of evidence you know there are places
(38:36):
around the world where they do take it more seriously
and councils do provide more but
we all know how strapped Cornwall council is of cash. Um, and
you know, the option is a big bin. Everything goes in there. Dead sea
(38:59):
girls, every everything goes in there. Um, and
yeah, it goes off to the incinerator, which is sad. So I I'm I'm glad that you
can at home, but you know, probably the vast majority of our people buying our
fish and chips would be on the prom in Pensand or down and then throwing it in the bin. Yeah.
(39:22):
So we're going to move on to your evidence now. Um and uh it what we're
going to do is we're going to give you one minute to speak about uh each of your pieces of evidence. Alex over there
has got the alarm. Show us the alarm, Alex. There we go. Um,
that's like at the pass there's food to go out. Yeah. Ding. You'll be running across there to get to
(39:47):
grab a plate. So, yeah. Um, so your first bit of evidence uh and you have
one minute to talk on this is your Harbor Lights fish buying policy 2025
written by uh by the Harbor Lights. Um I think it's good to have on our
website you know how we source our fish. Um I it is important to us. Um we have
(40:13):
talked about it. Um uh my hope is that
whatever fish we sell is totally sustainable. Um there are challenges.
There will always be local fish in our shops. Um the cod and hadock which are
just so popular for fish and chip eaters in the UK. Um
(40:37):
Cornwall cannot produce enough for our customers. So we go to the most
sustainable thing. So we use MSC for our coden hadock. Um I can't promote
the cornal good seafood guide enough to bring in that variety and tell you what
good fish to eat. Um, there you go. Yeah, it's our guideline.
(41:00):
Excellent. I like that. So, the next one is the recommended species list um from
the good uh Cornwall good seafood guide. Yeah. No, it's it is this guy called
Matt Slater and his team at the Cornwall Wildlife Trust in in the woods in Allet
(41:20):
just north of Truro just do amazing good. And I I I was lucky enough to be
involved right at the beginning with them. It was something that I'd just been patiently waiting for and I just
Cornwall finally got some funding and it is just such an amazing asset.
Please use it and learn about fish and be brave. Brilliant. Brilliant. And
(41:49):
that's almost like you planned that. That was exactly a minute there. So, your next piece of evidence is the
sustainable palm oil statement by Chester Zoo.
Well, we've chatted about that. Um, I I just
want to I totally get people saying that palm oil
(42:12):
has caused a lot of problem to the planet. Um and but it is that you can't put the
genie back in the bottle and a practical application of this is where we are.
Sustainable palm oil is is okay.
(42:33):
You're not being a bad person by as long as it's sustainable as long as it's got the correct marks on it.
Yeah. And it's look for RSPO. [Music] Excellent. And the next one is the
consumer fish buying behavior report by the University of Exter and uh the
harbor lights. I we're blessed in Felmouth to have like
(43:00):
the Tremo campus up above us and there's some really bright cookies there and
there are all these scientists and uh
I just tapped into them and I just found a little grant and I said could you go
and do some research for me because it's really important for me personally that
(43:24):
our customers are encouraged to try different foods uh different fish. So,
you know, could you use your academic brains to find the best practices and
exactly what people what is driving people's decisions? And they produced a
really interesting read, I think. And that's amazing.
(43:47):
He's very aggressive with his very aggressive with his dinging.
This is his favorite part of the week. This is so interesting. uh that uh behavior bio
report I guess uh other fish and chip shops tap into that and oh well they very well could I
it's all online isn't it? I probably need to get it more out there. Okay.
(44:11):
Um well maybe we can um with your permission we can put that onto our website for people to have a look at.
Yeah. No, please do. That would be amazing. Um, and then the um the the one
I've got here is the Sunday Times feature on the Harbor Lights.
Um, that was just a I'm not putting that in to show off. It's uh that was that
(44:38):
was just for any sort of business owners. If you do something a little bit different, it is possible to get some
really good PR. And I probably went for a pint of cider and came up with that
one one night and it didn't do us any harm and we've
talked about it. It was a really good thing to to have our COD-Free week. Um
(45:03):
the papers just picked up on it and off we went and we had some great PR.
Excellent. Excellent. And as I said, all of these bits of evidence will be uh available on the website for people to
have a look at. Now, we're going to look at um your top achievable tips for
people. And again, we're going to go for the minute cuz Alex likes dinging the bell. Um
(45:28):
so, your first one is try a new fish species each month.
That's what I'm saying. And I'm saying be brave. Um, we've said what where you find it.
So, Google the Cormal good seafood guide and just work through some fish on that.
(45:49):
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. And what um and there's so the the
Cornwall good fish good seafood guide is the one for people in Cornwall maybe
Devon as well but uh for people around the world it was the MSC. It was the No, that was
MCS. MCS, Marine Conservation Society, also have a a good seafood guide.
(46:13):
Excellent. Um, the next one was, "Give the top,
give the big five a miss. Cod, hadock, prawns, salmon, salmon, and tuna. What
on earth do we eat?" Wow. Now, what is is that linked? We've just
(46:34):
done that one or So, that's the that's your top tips is to is to give well give them a miss
to to give them a miss. You know, it's all linked to being brave. You know, you don't have just, you know, piece. If you
were to do fun going off top five, what would you what would you put up there without hitting those ones?
(46:54):
Oh, that's an interesting one. I've just been lucky enough to be in Greece and I just love octopus and
squid. Anything with a little tentacle, I tend to And those are f those are sustainable. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Um Cornish hake is probably
(47:15):
a really, you know, it's a reasonably priced fish. It is beautiful.
What sort of is that a strong fish or No, no, it's it's it's got more taste
than cod. Tastes crazy fishious, isn't he?
So, it's got more taste than cod. It's got more taste than cod. And it's Yeah, it's it's a beautiful fish. Please
(47:41):
try and uh try and get one from the middle of the fish. So, the loin the the
tails can get a bit shaggly. Go for the loin. Okay. Um and just before we move on, you
serve a vegan fish. vegan fish has just
really taken off I think cuz f that was sort of mostly in Felmouth but the other
(48:03):
shops do it as well. So tofu we marinate
in uh a brine and lemon solution overnight.
Um, then it's wrapped in nori seaweed, the sort of Japanese seaweed,
and then it's deep fried. And some people curly
(48:28):
say it tastes fishier than fish. Well, interestingly, I was in a
because of the seaweed. I was in a vegan restaurant a few years ago in Truro and they did a um what was
it now? Um, banana blossom. Yes. And um they did a similar process.
They marinated it and wrapped it in seaweed and then battered it. And I had
(48:51):
to say to the to the to the owner, "Is this is this fish?" And she said,
"No, everything we do here is vegan." And I I had to question whether it was fish.
So, uh interesting. Um then the um the lowwaist meals. So, root to peel. um
root to peel head to tail. Tell me about that.
(49:16):
Well, I just whether it's sort of too many
ready meals, I just you get something and just there so much
food wastage because they don't you know these these top restaurants. Uh one of
(49:36):
my son Logan, one of my sons Logan went up to uh quite a famous meat Patanosta
Chop House. It was where
that was a TV program up there, but they they just brought in half a cow or
quarter of a cow and just used it all. And then the bones went into this stock
(50:00):
pot that was sort of bigger than us two together. and just things were just
dropped in and it was just boiling away. Their gravy was just exceptional. But there was just
zero wastage. And so I Yes, it's just as human beings, I
(50:21):
just think we sort of only pick what we like and just so much is thrown away.
Um, I remember having a go at making some booze out of
potato peelings once and it did work. It was mildly alcoholic.
(50:41):
I think he forgot the bell then. He didn't. Well, cuz he was Well, he wanted he wanted some potato
vod. What do they call that? Pine, didn't they? Yeah. Remember the last time I
drank pine? I fell over. Um anyway, we won't go we won't go into that. So, um
the next one on your list is support local. Um look at an item a week or buy
(51:06):
an item a week from um from your region.
I mean, I know this is going out to other places and Cornwall, um, but I
just love the rise of local food producers and farm shops and isn't it
great? Absolutely. Um, I know it's a bit more expensive
(51:32):
than going to Tesco's little or whatever, but wow, the quality. I go to
a lovely farm shop just along the road here and uh yeah, the the the the
flavors the difference between flavors from buying a you know something from a
a supermarket and something from a farm shop is is quite different, isn't it? Um yes, I'm I'm a meat eater. So like
(51:59):
bacon, I just supermarket bacon versus, you know, a proper
Yeah. slice of bacon and it's just straight a different world, isn't it? It is.
Absolutely. Um, so spend 10 minutes with your council's
waste guide. Yeah, I
(52:25):
I just think too much goes into general waste
and uh you know if
the councils are obliged to process it if it is divided
and I know it's a little bit more work but I just it's because everything goes
(52:49):
goes into general waste. It's just like I'm I'm like the recycling officer at
home and I don't mind it at all. Um it just
seems the right thing to do, but I just I know people get annoyed. Oh, there's
too many pins and just whatever. But it is helping.
(53:12):
Yeah. And for for the sake of reading through the uh literature quite quickly,
it's quite important to uh to do that. So um tell us uh how we can get in
contact with you. So we've got the Harbor Lights restaurant. You've got two
other Frasers fish and chip shops on the prom in Pensands.
(53:36):
Okay. Uh which is a lovely site. Um and hometown Helston. one in Hston as well.
One in Hston. And then you've got the uh what's your Hawaiian one called again? Kona on on Event Square in
which I've actually been to. It was very pleasant. Um we had a crazy night there
(53:56):
last night. It was a a comedy theater group. Just did a like
a Paul Dark themed comedy. It wasn't a murder mystery. It was a heist. Some
jewels had got stolen and there were 40 50 of us having a three course dinner
being entertained by these three guy guys and girls. Such amazing.
(54:19):
It was it was lots of fun last night. Excellent. And then you're on LinkedIn
probably. Yes. Instagram. Yeah. No, and I just love chatting to people. So if anyone wants to talk to me
about anything, I won't hide away. Amazing. So the last but not least, one
thing that we can all do today to make a better tomorrow and uh help to find that
(54:45):
greener room to me
is um we just take life too seriously
and I don't think it does us or the planet
too much good. I think there are some big challenges that the planet has and us
(55:12):
all individually going through our lives have. But
I the the power of just being able to
have a laugh is it diffuses situations.
Um, it reduces confrontation and I think you're more likely to get a
(55:38):
result. Um, just shouting at people all the time and
being cross doesn't work isn't my style, but I
Yeah. I just feel that a lighter touch and I I sort of checked you out and I
gathered you in the past you were involved in laughter company or something. Yeah, I did a pair of
(56:02):
laughter yoga for about 16 years. Yeah. No, the there's the the the it's
actually in my book, you know, just laughter. And I was amazed to read when
I was researching for my book that you can actually even forced laughter.
When you force yourself to laugh, your body can't tell the difference between that and natural laughter. It has the
(56:25):
same effect. Fake it, fake it till you make it. we used to.
So yeah, I just I I may get, you know, my
kids obviously just dad just calm down, but I just try and see how much laughter
I can fit in the day. Really is so important. So important. They say that
(56:47):
uh that uh adults um children will laugh several hundred times a day and adults
can laugh sometimes well on average less than 40. Um, and that's a a massive difference,
isn't it? I think we all need to laugh a little bit more. What a great way to especially at ourselves.
(57:08):
Absolutely. What a great way to end the show, Pete. Pete the chip. Thank you so much for coming on the
show. Thank you so much for what you're doing for the planet. Thank you so much what you're doing for the people. And
um, thank you for coming on. Searching for a greenery. early. I I thought you might
ask one question. I just quite often I just how are you feeling at the start of a thing and I if you had asked me at the
(57:34):
beginning uh what are you thinking Pete? What word comes to your mind? I would have said
honored. So thank you very much. I think this is a great tool for improving the planet. Well done
you. Thank you so much. Thank you. That's it for this episode of Searching for a Green Room. We'd love to hear your
(57:54):
thoughts. Let us know what you think, who you'd like to hear from, any topics you want us to cover. Drop us a comment.
Don't forget to like and subscribe so you never miss an episode. See you next time.
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