April 28, 2025 • 52 mins
Michelle and guest host, Melissa Flournoy, talk to Frankie Robertson, Founder & President of The Amandla Group. Frankie works with organizations that address the social and political determinants of health that directly impact the health of Black birthing people. We talk about the challenges of advocating for improving maternal health outcomes in Louisiana, systemic racism in our healthcare systems, and how advocates can get involved.
According to Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy “If you correct our population for race, we’re not as much of an outlier as it’d otherwise appear.” SERIOUSLY?!
So-called “pro-life” House Speaker Mike Johnson doesn’t want new parents to spend time with their babies.
If you’re in Louisiana, join us at the Capitol on May 7th for Reproductive Freedom Day. Register here
https://WOW2025_ReproductiveFreedom.eventbrite.com
Check out 10,000 Women Louisiana.
Send us a message on Instagram or at info@liftlouisiana.org - tell us what your Seriously?! moment is.
Follow us on Instagram and TikTok: @LiftLouisiana
Get Updates from Lift Louisiana
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
Welcome to Seriously,
the podcast that dives into the baffling.
The ridiculous.
And downright unbelievable political climate in red states
like Louisiana. Seriously.
Welcome to Seriously.
(00:35):
We are excited today to have a special guest host actually,
because Ellie is out.
She's working on a trial somewhere in Louisiana.
And so I invited my good friend Melissa Flournoy to join me
on the podcast today as our guest host.
(00:57):
I've known Melissa for too many years,
I guess at this point.
And she is just one of the funniest and most fiercest
advocates that we have at the state Capitol.
And so Melissa, welcome to the podcast.
Why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about
yourself?
Well, thanks, Michelle.
It's great to be with you today.
(01:18):
And you know, I'm now a woman of a certain age.
I'm 63 years old.
I got elected to the Louisiana legislature when I was 30.
I've been involved in Louisiana politics really since the
late 80s,
when I ran a nonprofit community resource center up in
Shreveport that was really focused on trying to deliver
(01:40):
services to some of the most disadvantaged young people and
their families in our state in what was then called the
lead better heights neighborhood,
or the Bottoms in Shreveport.
So I've been,
I guess a warrior for women and children for my entire
career.
And I just can't take it anymore.
(02:01):
I am so sick I have in the same conversations for 35 years.
You know,
one of the newest groups that I'm involved with is a group
called 10,000 Women Louisiana.
Some people have started calling us the menopause militia
because we're women who have nothing to fear.
And frankly, we're trying to create a multiracial,
(02:25):
multigenerational network of women who are willing to be
outspoken, who are willing to show up at the Capitol,
who are willing to protest in the streets,
that are willing to do whatever needs to be done to tell
the truth about what's broken in Louisiana.
And frankly, now what's broken in the country.
So, you know, on any given day,
(02:46):
I vacillate from being in a homicidal rage and mad as hell
to just sort of kind of can't figure out the absurdity of
the universe.
So what I just,
grateful to be here today with you because Louisiana is
ground zero.
We're ground zero for Donald Trump.
We're ground zero with Jeff Landry.
(03:08):
We're ground zero for poverty.
You know, we make policies,
policy decisions in Louisiana because we want to keep
people poor and we have never gotten over the plantation
economy and the plantation mindset.
And so in the 21st century,
it's time for us to just call it like we see it and hold
(03:30):
people accountable because trying to play by the rules has
not gotten us the progress that we need.
And frankly,
I'm just tired of having the same conversations for over
four decades now.
So I'm grateful to be with you.
I'm happy to be a truth teller and I just want to lift up
(03:50):
the people that are in the fight in Louisiana.
And so I'm super excited to be on the show today with you
and Frankie so that we can talk about what's really going
on in Louisiana and how we can be more effective in just
raising hell and trying to get you done.
(04:12):
That's pretty much what we've got to do now.
Absolutely.
Thanks for letting me be on the show.
Thanks, Melissa.
Well,
we are going to have a different conversation today because
as you mentioned, we have joining us as our as our guests,
someone who has really been leading the fight around
improving maternal health outcomes,
(04:33):
especially for black women in the state who are dying from
pregnancy complications at a rate two to four times higher
than white women in the state.
And so we have Frankie Robertson with us today and Frankie
and I have and Melissa have been at the Capitol year after
year after year fighting this fight.
(04:54):
And I'm really excited to talk to you about how we save
pregnant women's lives in abortion ban America here in
Louisiana.
So Frankie,
welcome to the podcast and please tell the listeners a
little bit about who you are and the work that you're doing
to save women's lives.
(05:15):
Hey, Michelle.
Hey, Dr.
Florino,
thank you so much for allowing me to be here today or
inviting me to be here today.
So my work in maternal and child health really spans more
than nearly two decades.
I started with a national health organization as a state
director and then worked in public policy and grassroots
(05:37):
advocacy for multiple states,
including the territory of Puerto Rico.
And in this role, I mean,
I've had an opportunity to work the majority of the
Southeastern States in our country and look at policy
opportunities, initiate policy action, working with...
grassroots organizations,
(05:58):
multiple maternal health and social justice organizations,
policymakers, and lobbyists.
And just to having the opportunity to notice certain
trends, certain disparities,
a plethora or a myriad of disparities in the South that
just really consume us.
I am also a mission mom.
(06:18):
I founded the Amanla Group at the social justice consulting
firm where I raise or elevate the voices of moms and
families and birthing people who have a story to tell.
And I work with them and we engage in advocacy.
I work with various organizations that are maternal health
(06:39):
organizations.
I represent them as their lobbyists.
I represent them in leading their advocacy efforts and
developing their strategy.
And we've had a host of successes over many years,
particularly these last five years with really moving
policy.
And we can talk later about the various topics related to
(06:59):
maternal health,
but through my work in this field and also being a mission,
I know that the work as people try to compartmentalize it
is not able to be compartmentalized.
When we talk about reproductive justice,
when we talk about the health of moms and babies,
(07:21):
infants and infant mortality and maternal mortality,
it cannot be compartmentalized the way that our
policymakers, some of our policymakers, that is,
are trying to compartmentalize it because it's causing
people to lose their lives or come very close to it.
I'm a mom of two.
I have a nine-year-old that was born healthy.
(07:42):
And I have a seven-year-old who was born preterm three
months early.
And I always known I wanted to be a mom.
There's nothing that I've always known.
And I am happy.
about that and that is my choice.
I have been on two ends of the spectrum to have a healthy
(08:02):
baby boy and I've had pregnancy complications despite all
of the insurance I have and my maternal health knowledge so
I am happy to use my lived experience and amplify the lived
experiences of women, black women,
all women birthing people in our state to really move the
(08:24):
needle against the grain and policymakers who don't seem to
truly want to move the needle and really save lives beyond
certain speaking points sometimes that political parties
stick to on the backs of women and children.
Thank you so much Frankie.
(08:46):
I do want to kind of get into some of the policies that you
have.
fought for and actually passed over the past couple of
years and what that's that experience has been like because
one of the things that I find so fascinating about the way
you work and one of the things that has made you such an
incredible partner for those in the fight for abortion
(09:08):
access is that you have really been strategic about
building relationships across the aisle.
You work with people that are very, very,
very anti-abortion but they actually really do legitimately
care about pregnant women and they're you know they want
them to have healthy births they want them to carry those
babies to term and and have healthy births and then you
(09:30):
also work with a lot of progressive legislators,
well you know,
not that we have that many progressive legislators in
Louisiana, but the handful that we do,
you've also worked with them. So I'd be interested to to
hear a little bit more about your experience working across
the aisle to get some of the policies passed that you've
(09:51):
been able to to get done.
Yeah I think first as much as I can say we can because it's
not solely me I have the opportunity to work with several
organizations that I represent as a lobbyist that I'm
engaged with on a community level who have reached out to
(10:12):
me to engage and lead their their policy initiatives so we
are working together in a shared collaborative effort so I
don't want to take credit for that and also just our policy
makers who've been phenomenal to work with who have been
open to being educated about the issues open to embracing
(10:35):
and leading them certainly want to keep them at the
forefront of this and thank them for their their leadership
and their relentless leadership in this but for me the way
that I like to approach this is that We take a look at the
things that we collectively care about.
(10:58):
Unfortunately, in our state,
there's the common denominator of things that we care
about,
and then there are different outliers that disrupt that
progress.
I care about moms and babies,
maybe the sentiments expressed by legislator A,
(11:20):
but I am not going to go against my party on what they
believe about issue A.
That's a problem.
Like funding.
Like funding, like access to care,
like being open-minded about understanding that there are
people in our state who've reported bleeding out because of
(11:43):
the abortion bans that have been impacted,
and understanding that you're not separating the two.
One of the things that that I see that is really disturbing
and I'll circle back in a second that I've noticed is that
there, there's always a lot of negotiating,
a lot of open to just meet in the middle.
(12:05):
With the people that I work with,
but the people who say that they care about the same things
with the common denominator are not willing to bend at all.
And that type of close minded policy is killing people,
right?
Well, Frankie,
I want to jump in on that because part of this is where the
medical model and hospitals and OBGYNs fit in.
(12:29):
And then you've done a lot of work with birthmark doulas
and midwives and community care workers and,
and sort of building up sort of trusting helpful options to
support pregnant women to deliver healthy babies.
(12:49):
And there's, there's a, I don't know,
a weird dynamic of protecting the OBGYN medical profession
and trying to build out sort of thoughtful community caring
services to support pregnant women.
(13:10):
And so you've done a lot of work on getting doula services
recognized by the state, you know,
talking about birthing centers versus hospitals.
So can you talk specifically about sort of the political
dynamic of trying to expand access to healthcare,
(13:31):
particularly for low income women or African American women
who need those doula services and how hard it is to try and
sort of change the dynamic in a very healthcare centered,
hospital-based model?
I think for one, that's a loaded question,
(13:54):
but I'll just make it simple and just say,
at the root of this is a system that is broken,
that totally needs to be overhauled.
But it's kind of, and I'm not the expert on this system,
I just see the user end of it and also the policy end that
is going nowhere fast.
(14:14):
But at the root of this cannot be capitalism, but it is.
At the root of this cannot be making the doctor's
accommodations or their business model a priority over the
care of their patients.
I've seen too many times in pushing for legislation that
(14:35):
benefits the patients,
that policies that we're pushing that ultimately benefit
the medical providers, clientele, It's one,
not initiated by whatever the system is that is lobbying
collectively for the medical community.
(14:59):
One, not bringing these policies forward,
which you would think that it could come from that body of
representatives.
Or two, being directly engaged in dismantling it.
If there's a question about the business interests and
protections of the medical community, and that's a problem,
(15:19):
right?
I know that just this past legislative session,
I worked on behalf of my clients and organizations like
LPHI, they were engaged in this fully.
And we literally actually wrote,
we wrote the language for Senate Bill 190 that was carried
(15:42):
by Senator Boudreaux and approached him and shared the
problem, and he was very eager to support it.
So that bill,
which was designed to increase Medicaid reimbursement rates
absolutely impacts and supports a critical need that the
doctors are facing with being able to sustain healthy
business practices,
which in turn impacts the people that we care about who
(16:05):
can't get care because there's not enough doctors providing
Medicaid coverage.
And there's maternity desert.
So there's a direct ripple down effect to the people that
we care about that we're representing.
So just as we were able to see that as the birth work
community and a more social justice user end community,
(16:25):
something benefiting the doctors,
we need that same momentum coming from the medical
community to say, yeah,
we think that we can use our power and our leverage to say,
hey,
these are things that can make life better or preserve life
for our patients and people we care about,
but we're not necessarily seeing that same energy.
(16:47):
it comes to things that might be slightly controversial or
questionable about whether or not it creates a liability
for the medical community to just provide a service to
their patients.
Well, Frankie,
one of the things that I want to jump in on there is,
let's look at the data in Louisiana, okay,
(17:08):
because at one point there was some study,
I don't even remember the year on it,
that talked about how many caesarean sections we had,
and that we had like more C-sections than comparable
states, and it seemed like we were doing,
inducing babies or doing C-sections to accommodate the
(17:28):
schedules of OB-GYNs,
and so, you know, another issue is around you know,
OB-GYNs not wanting to partner with doulas or midwives or
sort of a continuum of care or sort of a new model to care
for pregnant women.
You know what I mean?
(17:48):
And so how do we sort of change the 19th century paradigm
to deal with the 21st century world and have a more,
I don't know,
patient-centered approach where it's not just driven by,
oh,
we can't see you till you're 12 weeks pregnant or because
(18:10):
we're worried you might have a miscarriage and we're
worried about criminalizing, you know, obstetrical care.
I mean, all of our priorities just seem whack right now.
I can't think of a better word around, you know,
how do we get people to then come back and say,
what's in the best interest of pregnant women?
(18:32):
And how do we fund doulas services?
How do we see women earlier?
How do we deal with the fear in the medical community that,
oh my gosh, if somebody has a miscarriage, you know,
it's going to affect my data as an OB-GYN.
Or, oh my god,
I might actually have to take care of a patient having a
(18:55):
miscarriage.
I mean,
we are in sort of a dystopian nightmare where doctors are
afraid of their patients.
Doctors are afraid of their patients.
It seems that perhaps the medical community members that
aren't speaking up or maybe, in your words,
afraid of the establishment itself, right,
(19:18):
repercussions from policymakers or people who are part of,
you know, maintaining the status quo.
I don't, I'm certainly not a physician,
so I can't speak for them,
but they're not afraid of their patients.
What I see, what I would like to see is,
more of a unified response from the medical community to
push back.
(19:38):
I mean,
there are people in the legislature that do not have any
sort of medical knowledge,
medical anything that are making decisions based upon party
speaking points and campaign promises or things that they
may not even truly believe in that are antiquated,
that are proven hypocritical in many instances.
And it's really time out for that.
(19:59):
When is someone going to stand up and say that this is
truly hurting people, this is hurting constituents,
this is hurting my patients and not leave others to put
themselves out there to come and speak out against this.
Like we have to be unafraid to do what's right.
And that's where I'm seeing some of the gaps as it relates
(20:21):
to the policy piece.
Look, this is not comfortable for anybody.
Anytime anybody speaks out and speaks the truth and goes
against the status quo, anybody.
with the understanding of just the the climate that we're
in knows that you're taking an element of the risk but if
you're looking of element of a risk but if you're looking
(20:41):
at knowing that what you were doing is right and this is
beyond you beyond your generation um saving lives on a
systemic level doing what's right and fair then you're not
calculating that individual risk to you you are standing on
your truth you're standing on your principles and you
realize that this is bigger than you so no people are not
(21:02):
afraid of their patient um perhaps there's times where
people are afraid of uh political um fallout or or
something like that and of course their own livelihood but
again if this is about the patient is if this is about life
if this is about moms and babies we have to approach this
this differently and do better
yeah i would agree and it's not i guess it's not so much
(21:23):
that they're afraid of their patients they're afraid that
providing the standard of care that they were trained to
provide to their patients now could put them in jail for 10
to 15 years in some circumstances and that that reasonably
is making people nervous and it's leading to these delays
in care in a state that already had a maternal mortality
(21:48):
crisis already had women dying of pregnancy related
complications that were in most circumstances like over 75
i think percent 80 of them were preventable.
These are things that we can prevent,
there are interventions that can happen before it gets to
(22:08):
that point but one of the things as Melissa was saying that
i think is so remarkable about what you're doing is you're
you're going back even earlier really pushing on creating a
sustainable community care kind of network and and having
the state support that so early on people can have the
(22:29):
support of doulas people can have access to a midwife.
And I think that that is really critical,
especially because, let's face it, I mean,
COVID really destroyed people's trust in the healthcare
system, generally.
But there has been a problem with trust with the healthcare
system among communities of color for a long time.
(22:52):
And we talked about this a little bit before we started
recording.
So I'm gonna kick it over to you, Melissa,
because I know you had a very specific question that you
wanted to ask about how people of color are treated in the
healthcare system.
Well, you know,
I just worry that we have such systemic racism in our
state, and we see it play out in terms of access to care,
(23:15):
and we see it play out in the data, okay?
And so one of the things that I'm so personally offended by
is when Dr.
Bill Cassidy, who's now our United States Senator,
in a very off-handed way said oh well our numbers aren't so
bad if you'd like take out the black people okay that's
(23:37):
sort of a paraphrase but that's literally what he said
"about a third of our population is african-american,
african-americans have a higher incidence of maternal
mortality so if you correct our population for race we're
not as much of an outlier as it otherwise appear now i say
that not to minimize the issue but to focus the issue as to
(23:58):
where it would be"
and when we're talking about maternal health and we're
talking about health outcomes you know louisiana it's more
dangerous to be a pregnant black woman in louisiana than
just about anywhere else in the world and so i'm just
struck by the the pervasive racism uh the pervasive uh i
(24:23):
don't babies are so precious and oh we have to protect the
babies and oh the babies the babies and then we don't
really care about the babies or the mothers of the babies
and then once the babies are born we definitely don't care
(24:45):
about them because we don't want to make sure that they've
got food clothing WIC diapers health care so if we really
cared about the babies why aren't we investing a continuum
of care that includes maternal health but also wick the
home visitation nurse family partnership um parental
(25:11):
support uh you know all those extra expenses that go along
with having babies and also why don't we have paid family
leave for you young or new mothers to help them you know
get through this transition and so you know my first
frankly,
is we want pregnant adolescents to have a baby on Friday
(25:34):
and go back to work in the drive-thru at Taco Bell on
Monday.
And it is just appalling.
And I don't know where the outrage is on behalf of all
these people who love babies.
And so, you know,
I'm just beyond worked up on just the hypocrisy and the mean
(25:59):
-spiritedness in our legislature that is just, well,
number one,
it's unchristian for all the Christian pro-life people.
And number two,
it is so destructive that so many of our young mothers
particularly don't get off to a good start,
(26:21):
able to support and nurture and feed and clothe their
children.
because of the economic stress.
And so, you know, that's sort of my rant of the moment.
Michelle, I'm not sure if that's the rant you wanted, but,
you know,
that's the one I can dial up on demand because it makes me
(26:42):
crazy.
Because for the most pro-life state in the country,
we are the least pro-baby.
Yeah, Frankie,
do you think we're the most pro-life state in the country?
Not by my definition of pro-life.
I mean,
by this definition of pro-life that people have created to
(27:03):
fit their own best interests and their own feel-good
opportunity to seem less like, you know,
a bad actor or a bad player or less faith-driven person,
you know, by that definition.
But no, we're not pro-life.
And I can speak to that on so many levels.
(27:25):
And no, it's hypocrisy, you know, at best.
But Melissa just mentioned just so many things.
There's such a load of questions.
So I'll just, I'll just start with Dr.
Cassidy.
We know that a few years back,
there was a lot of media on his statement about correcting
for removing the statistical data on Black women and,
(27:47):
you know, all may look well.
And I'm paraphrasing as well.
But the interesting thing is that fast forward,
maybe two years later, maybe even three at this point,
here we are with anti-Blackness being on full display and
not, quote, the way that it had been.
You've got dismantling DEI efforts.
(28:10):
That hurts everyone.
We know it mostly hurts white women.
It preserves the patriarchy.
So I'm going someplace with this, so just bear with me.
Now we see the layoffs and the total just destruction.
of certain departments and HHS and NIH.
(28:31):
And from what I understand,
there was or still is a pause on like PRAMM's data, right?
So it's just interesting that a few years ago,
this comment was made and fast forward, here we are.
There's a whole list of things that the federal government
and now soon, someone's trying to do it in the state too,
(28:52):
but state agency,
there's a bill filed for that to remove any sort of equity
-based anything based upon race, ethnicity, gender,
disability.
So again, like you look now and it's like, oh,
well he said that and he really meant it because now
there's efforts to not even have access to that data.
(29:12):
And there's efforts to make sure people don't say anything
about race disparities or black, right?
So here we are and it's all in our faces.
Now, Melissa brought up a lot of other.
points and I'll just try to centralize it like this.
When your goal is to preserve the patriarchy, yes,
(29:34):
you can say that I love babies and I love moms until they
are African American, until they are Hispanic,
until they are undocumented immigrants,
until they need protections in school under the Department
of Education.
(29:54):
You can say all of these things, but do you really mean it?
And I think the actions speak louder than words.
That answer is no.
So how can one even remotely be the true definition of pro
-life when in an effort to maintain the status quo and
attack blackness that you're willing to allow everyone in
(30:21):
between to be a part of the collateral damage in the name
of you're on your own after you give birth because there is
something that you are not doing right for the reason that
you can't eat or that you can't go to or that you are
working in a fast food job and making low wages.
The fact that you have health challenges is always a
(30:46):
blaming of that person and not the systems that created the
disparity that even after all of the education that's
there,
people are disregarding it or they are not willing to
educate themselves on how they are continuing to perpetuate
policy violence in the 2025 year, no different than 1920,
(31:15):
1930, 40, 56 to 70, 80.
There has to be willingness to do better and to be
individual thinkers.
to really earn that pro-life label and badge,
that is a true one.
And unfortunately we're not seeing that across the masses
and that is very problematic.
(31:38):
Yeah, I just,
I wanted to pick up on that because when it comes to some
of the things that you've been pushing,
it seems like a big barrier is that it would actually cost
the state a little bit of money to improve health outcomes,
to do the things that we know need to be done.
Right, it's costing the state to not do it.
(31:58):
It's costing the state to not do it, that's right.
And we also know that the Louisiana Right to Life has like
an extraordinary amount of power.
And so what we like to do on this podcast is point out the
F-g hypocrisy that's going on with the pro-life people in
general,
but the fact that they have spent zero of the massive
(32:22):
amounts of political capital that they have up in Baton
Rouge to help you get some of your policy priorities over
the finish line is extraordinary to me.
I mean, you do not see them showing up.
They have done what?
Zero.
Okay, great.
Okay, thanks.
Zero.
Correct.
(32:44):
Yeah, I mean, it's extraordinary.
It's extraordinary.
I think it goes back to your question.
And like I mentioned earlier on in this podcast, I mean,
it will just speak the truth.
I mean, for those of us who are pushing these policies,
and I hate to call them progressive,
they're just human rights policies,
(33:05):
and they're evidence based.
They're not things that we just made up one night and said,
Hey, let's try this.
They're evidence based policies, and they have minimal,
in many instances,
minimal fiscal investments that are necessary,
especially when you look at the exponential cost of doing
nothing,
we are constantly extending an olive branch reaching out
(33:27):
trying to build a network and educate people on what we
what needs to be done.
And there was there was a an attempt last legislative
session with representative from Right to Life.
And I, you know, had a meeting and said, Hey,
here's the things that we're working on.
(33:47):
And you know, where are you on this, will you support this?
And there was no support after that.
So like,
what is the definition of pro life that we're all working
with, I think, respectfully,
we have two operating definitions.
And as far as the legislature is concerned,
there were a lot of folks who were in support,
but there were key people who were not in support that
(34:08):
there wasn't even movement on one bill in particular.
And there were others that were so thank you,
but one bill in particular, that was less than $400,000,
that would have provided preconception labor and and
postpartum life-saving support that wasn't passed,
but there were millions of dollars spent on other things.
And most recently,
very disturbing that the community has really pushed back
(34:31):
on is that,
our executive branch of government is celebrating a $39
million price tag on building a juvenile facility in
central Louisiana.
In that same finance committee,
we literally sat for hours to plead the case on a very
(34:51):
small maternal health package to invest,
and there were no dollars to invest.
How can we make that make sense?
And how is that pro-life?
We're jailing children,
but we're not helping moms have healthy babies and giving
babies the opportunity to come into this world safely and
healthy.
Okay, well, Frankie, I just have to say it.
(35:12):
Listen,
if we wanted to invest in healthy babies and young children
and...
quality child care and early education,
we could divert young people getting off the rails in
middle school and high school because they'd have more
compassionate,
caring relationships and being able to bond with, I mean,
(35:33):
all that social,
emotional stuff and all the research says invest on the
front end, okay?
If one is gonna pay their parents a living wage and that
for every dollar, the minimum wage goes up,
infant mortality goes down by a percentage and that's been
presented in labor and industrial relations for many years
and that's fallen on deaf ears.
(35:55):
So the research is there,
why not pay the parents more so they can support themselves
and have access to top quality insurance?
Why not that?
We know the answer.
100%.
Well, what can we do in this upcoming legislative session?
What can advocates and citizens do to help support you,
help support better policy, more funding,
(36:18):
a more sane approach in Louisiana to support healthy babies
and healthy moms and getting kids off to a good start and
how can we mobilize to support you?
Well, one, we can show up.
There is no such thing as too little support.
The only thing that is unacceptable is not trying.
(36:41):
We all have our own special skills and talents and we know
where our bandwidth lies.
We know that there are some folks who are able to come to
the Capitol.
There are some people who may have the ear of a policymaker
while they're at church or they're out in sheer community
(37:01):
speaking to them about as their constituent why you care
about what you care about and put the pressure on them and
make sure that your voice is louder than others who are not
supporting the policies that we know that.
and babies need for one.
There's some folks who say, you know what,
(37:21):
I'm going to use my wallet or my pocketbook and I'm going
to support candidates who get it, right?
So make sure that you're supporting and are running for
office if that's your thing.
There's something simple as entertaining,
responding to a one-click to really just flood the
committee members with just education on certain topics.
(37:44):
But I think just being aware and not cradling and curling
up to what can be a very overwhelming experience for me
included and just making sure that we're doing something.
But I think for each of us on a basic level,
educating ourselves and in this anti-Black very blatantly
(38:05):
racist era that we are in, first of all, it's nothing new.
It's just more acceptable to be anti-Black.
and anti-diversity,
just making sure that you do your own homework to
understand the history of racist policies,
(38:25):
how we got where we are and the amount of strategic
systematic policy design that was there and that was
implemented at the federal and the state level to create
these poor health outcomes, to create the disparities,
to create everything and just know that that same level of
intentionality and energy has to go into dismantling it all
(38:49):
and accepting nothing less and just really fighting back
because we also cannot fold to what has been forced upon us
saying,
you can't say black, you can't say racism,
you can't say sexism, you can't say transgender.
I mean,
that is where it all starts and dictating and scaring
(39:12):
people into something.
What we can do is we can speak even louder and we can say
it anyways because if you're doing what's right and you
were always doing it for the right reasons,
it should not be something that should shut you down.
So I think that we should stand unified and stand up for
the principles that we've always said that we stood up for
now more than ever.
(39:33):
Well, amen to that. Frankie, you are awesome. You are tough.
You show up at the Capitol.
You take more crap than most people realize.
You are fearless and you have a lot of people who hold you
in high regard and that follow your lead.
And so I just wanna say thank you for your tenacity,
(39:56):
for your compassion and for your courage because courage is
contagious.
And so we have to continue to advocate because Michelle,
seriously,
we are in a world of hurt in Louisiana and it's an all
hands on deck moment.
and thank you, Frankie.
(40:17):
Thank you, Frankie, so much.
We love you,
and we're gonna be there with you this whole legislative
session, and we'd love to have you back.
Thank you, happy to be back anytime,
and thank you both for your fearless dedication,
leadership, and advocacy.
I think we have to work together despite the forces that
try to compartmentalize the work that we do because it's
(40:41):
all connected, and we can't stop until they see that.
There are no compartments, it is all connected,
and we have to make sure that people understand that and
move forward to a better place for all of us.
Agreed.
So, Melissa,
(41:01):
we like to just express our complete and utter exasperation
with what the hell is going on, both in Louisiana,
but around the country.
So,
I'm going to start off by telling you what made me think,
oh my God, seriously this week.
So there has been this whole back and forth happening in
(41:24):
Congress over whether or not new moms can get 12 weeks off
and be able to proxy vote so they don't have to just
completely miss votes in Congress after they have a baby.
A Democratic representative and a Republican representative
(41:45):
kind of teamed up and started doing some maneuvering,
basically outsmarted Mike Johnson,
who obviously is our favorite, right?
Mike Johnson.
Mike Johnson hails from where you grew up, Melissa,
up in the Shreveport area.
Mike Johnson, with his tiny little Napoleon complex,
(42:06):
could not be outsmarted by these two women.
And so he basically shut Congress down to avoid allowing a
vote to go forward on literally just giving new moms 12
weeks to proxy vote so they don't have to miss out on
critical votes in Congress to take care of their new
(42:28):
babies.
I mean, this is just outrageous.
And again, this is like pro-life freaking evangelical,
you know, walks with Jesus.
Mike Johnson is stopping new moms from being able to
participate fully in their jobs in Congress.
It's unbelievable.
Oh my God.
Let's talk about hypocrisy.
(42:49):
Okay.
I am from Shreveport originally.
I do not know Mike Johnson personally well.
When he was in the legislature,
he always walked around and said, you know,
I'm a constitutional lawyer.
And he was sort of made fun of for because, you know,
it was just,
he's just always been pretentious and sort of holier than
(43:10):
that.
And I think it really turns people off.
But a lot of people,
People really like him because he seems so calm and so
nice.
And, you know,
he does have a good haircut and he does seem like a nice
guy.
Well, they do say religion is the opiate of the masses.
So maybe he's just high.
Well, you know, here's the deal.
(43:30):
He also fancies himself one of the most pro-life people in
the country.
And this is the ultimate hypocrisy, okay?
During COVID, people could vote by proxy.
I do not understand the underlying fear of this.
It was intended to be for both new mothers and new fathers.
It started out with that Democratic woman congressman who
(43:54):
then recruited, I believe,
nine Republicans to go along with her.
There's a much greater groundswell.
You know,
if you are super pro-life and all about families and
supporting families, this should have been a no-brainer.
And and so that's what I don't understand is that they say
one thing and do another all of this posturing about Jesus
(44:19):
and Christianity and compassion and babies.
It's just a fraud.
It's a fraud because when push came to shove and he could
do something to support new parents, both moms and dads.
He chose not to.
And so I just think this is typical.
(44:41):
You know, Michelle, this is typical.
You know, we see it in the Louisiana legislature.
All of these folks that want to beat their chest and talk
about how pro-life they are, you know,
turn around and be against WIC and turn around and be
against Medicaid services for new moms or against other
services or even in Louisiana.
(45:01):
We don't have paid family leave for new parents.
We don't have any support of new parents.
And so, you know,
I just want to call bullshit on pro-life Christians who are
not in support of families and are not in support of
encouraging people to raise healthy babies and do not think
(45:25):
strategically at all about what we can do to ensure that
our most vulnerable brand new citizens get off to a good
start with love,
compassion, food,
care and the stability that they need to start a new life.
(45:46):
And, you know, just, you know,
don't get me started on Mike Johnson and the Congress
because these guys don't care about people.
They don't care about people.
They care about Donald Trump.
And that's all they seem to care about.
And Donald Trump is a cancer on the country.
(46:10):
America white again,
and this white Christian nationalism racism is setting our
country back a hundred years and is just appalling.
Yeah, I hear that.
All right.
Well, so that was mine.
Do you have anything else you want to rant about today,
(46:31):
Melissa?
Well,
I guess I just want to rant about why we want poor people
in our country.
You know,
we're making policy decisions every day to keep people
poor.
And then we want to demonize poverty.
(46:51):
And so I just want to uh get people to sort of wake up and
understand what's really going on and to understand that
here in the state of Louisiana we haven't raised the
minimum wage since 2009 you know we don't provide access to
any kind of paid leave that we have a policy of keeping
(47:14):
people poor and then we want to punish them because they're
too poor and we want to defund education we want to defund
health care we want to defund services in communities we
want to defund child care and quality child care but we
want to build juvenile prisons and prosecute 15-year-olds
(47:35):
as adults we just beat back some terrible constitutional
amendments uh at the end of March but in our new
legislative session we want to have a new bill that says we
can prosecute 15-year-olds as adults we want to spend
hundreds of millions of dollars building juvenile prisons
(47:55):
and so I just want to say let's spend hundreds of millions
of dollars on babies and young kids and elementary age kids
so they don't need to go to prison okay pay for it now or
pay more later i've been saying this for 35 years in the
Louisiana legislature and I am just beyond aggravated
(48:19):
because we see prisons as economic development and we now
see juvenile prisons as rural economic development and so
my new frustration is private prisons and here in Louisiana
we have more ICE detainees in private prisons in Louisiana
(48:39):
second only to Texas and so there is something bad wrong in
the dark heart of our elected officials we need to do more
than pray for them we need to organize we need to get
people to see us so we can do it in the community so we can
do it in the community to run,
we need to have transformational and generational change in
Louisiana,
and we need to put people first and not put money first.
(49:05):
And so I'm aggravated most of the time, Michelle,
but I appreciate the opportunity to be on with you.
Because, you know, Louisiana, you know,
most folks think that we can't change Louisiana,
so why bother?
And the only thing I will say is we definitely can't change
(49:26):
Louisiana if we don't show up.
And so we have to keep fighting and keep organizing and
keep educating and encouraging young people across the
state of Louisiana to be better informed and to call their
legislators to show up at the Capitol and literally say
(49:47):
enough is enough.
We can do better.
We can do better and we deserve better in Louisiana.
I want to do a commercial for 10,000 Women.
If anybody in Louisiana is listening to this podcast,
go to 10,000
Women Louisiana and sign up for training on advocacy.
(50:08):
Look at ways to come to the Capitol.
10,000
Women partners with Lift Louisiana for our Women on Wednesday
initiative.
We're trying to get more women across the state of
Louisiana to be informed advocates because we need people
to stand up, speak up, show up and fight back.
(50:30):
And so women of all ages and races need to see the utility
and the solidarity that we are all in this together.
And we need to work together to lift up the voices of all
people in Louisiana,
especially our most disadvantaged and most vulnerable
(50:51):
pregnant mothers in a time of crisis.
I just want to thank you so much, Melissa,
for guest hosting.
This was a pleasure.
I hope we can do it again.
We are going to be hosting people at the Capitol for
Reproductive Freedom Day on May 7th.
So we will put a link in the show notes for how people can
(51:13):
register for that.
You can come to the Capitol, you can learn how to advocate,
see how the legislative process works.
We'll hopefully try to connect you to meet with your
legislator, have a conversation with them.
Some of them are too scared to come talk to their
constituents,
but we know who they are so we can confront them.
Yeah, that's probably just going to do it for us this week.
(51:37):
Well, thanks Michelle.
It's great to be out here in the world advocating with you
and all the folks that care about women's rights and
children's rights and reproductive rights here in
Louisiana.
across the country and we've got to all understand that
we've got to continue to show up every day and so thank you
(51:59):
for the opportunity to be on with you on seriously because
Louisiana we are the canary in the coal mine and and and
thank you for the opportunity I appreciate it.
All right we'll talk to y'all next week.
Seriously is presented by Lift Louisiana a nonprofit
(52:20):
organization advocating for reproductive health rights and
justice.
Welcome to Seriously,
the podcast that dives into the baffling.
The ridiculous.
And downright unbelievable political climate in red states
like Louisiana. Seriously.
Welcome to Seriously.
(00:35):
We are excited today to have a special guest host actually,
because Ellie is out.
She's working on a trial somewhere in Louisiana.
And so I invited my good friend Melissa Flournoy to join me
on the podcast today as our guest host.
(00:57):
I've known Melissa for too many years,
I guess at this point.
And she is just one of the funniest and most fiercest
advocates that we have at the state Capitol.
And so Melissa, welcome to the podcast.
Why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about
yourself?
Well, thanks, Michelle.
It's great to be with you today.
(01:18):
And you know, I'm now a woman of a certain age.
I'm 63 years old.
I got elected to the Louisiana legislature when I was 30.
I've been involved in Louisiana politics really since the
late 80s,
when I ran a nonprofit community resource center up in
Shreveport that was really focused on trying to deliver
(01:40):
services to some of the most disadvantaged young people and
their families in our state in what was then called the
lead better heights neighborhood,
or the Bottoms in Shreveport.
So I've been,
I guess a warrior for women and children for my entire
career.
And I just can't take it anymore.
(02:01):
I am so sick I have in the same conversations for 35 years.
You know,
one of the newest groups that I'm involved with is a group
called 10,000 Women Louisiana.
Some people have started calling us the menopause militia
because we're women who have nothing to fear.
And frankly, we're trying to create a multiracial,
(02:25):
multigenerational network of women who are willing to be
outspoken, who are willing to show up at the Capitol,
who are willing to protest in the streets,
that are willing to do whatever needs to be done to tell
the truth about what's broken in Louisiana.
And frankly, now what's broken in the country.
So, you know, on any given day,
(02:46):
I vacillate from being in a homicidal rage and mad as hell
to just sort of kind of can't figure out the absurdity of
the universe.
So what I just,
grateful to be here today with you because Louisiana is
ground zero.
We're ground zero for Donald Trump.
We're ground zero with Jeff Landry.
(03:08):
We're ground zero for poverty.
You know, we make policies,
policy decisions in Louisiana because we want to keep
people poor and we have never gotten over the plantation
economy and the plantation mindset.
And so in the 21st century,
it's time for us to just call it like we see it and hold
(03:30):
people accountable because trying to play by the rules has
not gotten us the progress that we need.
And frankly,
I'm just tired of having the same conversations for over
four decades now.
So I'm grateful to be with you.
I'm happy to be a truth teller and I just want to lift up
(03:50):
the people that are in the fight in Louisiana.
And so I'm super excited to be on the show today with you
and Frankie so that we can talk about what's really going
on in Louisiana and how we can be more effective in just
raising hell and trying to get you done.
(04:12):
That's pretty much what we've got to do now.
Absolutely.
Thanks for letting me be on the show.
Thanks, Melissa.
Well,
we are going to have a different conversation today because
as you mentioned, we have joining us as our as our guests,
someone who has really been leading the fight around
improving maternal health outcomes,
(04:33):
especially for black women in the state who are dying from
pregnancy complications at a rate two to four times higher
than white women in the state.
And so we have Frankie Robertson with us today and Frankie
and I have and Melissa have been at the Capitol year after
year after year fighting this fight.
(04:54):
And I'm really excited to talk to you about how we save
pregnant women's lives in abortion ban America here in
Louisiana.
So Frankie,
welcome to the podcast and please tell the listeners a
little bit about who you are and the work that you're doing
to save women's lives.
(05:15):
Hey, Michelle.
Hey, Dr.
Florino,
thank you so much for allowing me to be here today or
inviting me to be here today.
So my work in maternal and child health really spans more
than nearly two decades.
I started with a national health organization as a state
director and then worked in public policy and grassroots
(05:37):
advocacy for multiple states,
including the territory of Puerto Rico.
And in this role, I mean,
I've had an opportunity to work the majority of the
Southeastern States in our country and look at policy
opportunities, initiate policy action, working with...
grassroots organizations,
(05:58):
multiple maternal health and social justice organizations,
policymakers, and lobbyists.
And just to having the opportunity to notice certain
trends, certain disparities,
a plethora or a myriad of disparities in the South that
just really consume us.
I am also a mission mom.
(06:18):
I founded the Amanla Group at the social justice consulting
firm where I raise or elevate the voices of moms and
families and birthing people who have a story to tell.
And I work with them and we engage in advocacy.
I work with various organizations that are maternal health
(06:39):
organizations.
I represent them as their lobbyists.
I represent them in leading their advocacy efforts and
developing their strategy.
And we've had a host of successes over many years,
particularly these last five years with really moving
policy.
And we can talk later about the various topics related to
(06:59):
maternal health,
but through my work in this field and also being a mission,
I know that the work as people try to compartmentalize it
is not able to be compartmentalized.
When we talk about reproductive justice,
when we talk about the health of moms and babies,
(07:21):
infants and infant mortality and maternal mortality,
it cannot be compartmentalized the way that our
policymakers, some of our policymakers, that is,
are trying to compartmentalize it because it's causing
people to lose their lives or come very close to it.
I'm a mom of two.
I have a nine-year-old that was born healthy.
(07:42):
And I have a seven-year-old who was born preterm three
months early.
And I always known I wanted to be a mom.
There's nothing that I've always known.
And I am happy.
about that and that is my choice.
I have been on two ends of the spectrum to have a healthy
(08:02):
baby boy and I've had pregnancy complications despite all
of the insurance I have and my maternal health knowledge so
I am happy to use my lived experience and amplify the lived
experiences of women, black women,
all women birthing people in our state to really move the
(08:24):
needle against the grain and policymakers who don't seem to
truly want to move the needle and really save lives beyond
certain speaking points sometimes that political parties
stick to on the backs of women and children.
Thank you so much Frankie.
(08:46):
I do want to kind of get into some of the policies that you
have.
fought for and actually passed over the past couple of
years and what that's that experience has been like because
one of the things that I find so fascinating about the way
you work and one of the things that has made you such an
incredible partner for those in the fight for abortion
(09:08):
access is that you have really been strategic about
building relationships across the aisle.
You work with people that are very, very,
very anti-abortion but they actually really do legitimately
care about pregnant women and they're you know they want
them to have healthy births they want them to carry those
babies to term and and have healthy births and then you
(09:30):
also work with a lot of progressive legislators,
well you know,
not that we have that many progressive legislators in
Louisiana, but the handful that we do,
you've also worked with them. So I'd be interested to to
hear a little bit more about your experience working across
the aisle to get some of the policies passed that you've
(09:51):
been able to to get done.
Yeah I think first as much as I can say we can because it's
not solely me I have the opportunity to work with several
organizations that I represent as a lobbyist that I'm
engaged with on a community level who have reached out to
(10:12):
me to engage and lead their their policy initiatives so we
are working together in a shared collaborative effort so I
don't want to take credit for that and also just our policy
makers who've been phenomenal to work with who have been
open to being educated about the issues open to embracing
(10:35):
and leading them certainly want to keep them at the
forefront of this and thank them for their their leadership
and their relentless leadership in this but for me the way
that I like to approach this is that We take a look at the
things that we collectively care about.
(10:58):
Unfortunately, in our state,
there's the common denominator of things that we care
about,
and then there are different outliers that disrupt that
progress.
I care about moms and babies,
maybe the sentiments expressed by legislator A,
(11:20):
but I am not going to go against my party on what they
believe about issue A.
That's a problem.
Like funding.
Like funding, like access to care,
like being open-minded about understanding that there are
people in our state who've reported bleeding out because of
(11:43):
the abortion bans that have been impacted,
and understanding that you're not separating the two.
One of the things that that I see that is really disturbing
and I'll circle back in a second that I've noticed is that
there, there's always a lot of negotiating,
a lot of open to just meet in the middle.
(12:05):
With the people that I work with,
but the people who say that they care about the same things
with the common denominator are not willing to bend at all.
And that type of close minded policy is killing people,
right?
Well, Frankie,
I want to jump in on that because part of this is where the
medical model and hospitals and OBGYNs fit in.
(12:29):
And then you've done a lot of work with birthmark doulas
and midwives and community care workers and,
and sort of building up sort of trusting helpful options to
support pregnant women to deliver healthy babies.
(12:49):
And there's, there's a, I don't know,
a weird dynamic of protecting the OBGYN medical profession
and trying to build out sort of thoughtful community caring
services to support pregnant women.
(13:10):
And so you've done a lot of work on getting doula services
recognized by the state, you know,
talking about birthing centers versus hospitals.
So can you talk specifically about sort of the political
dynamic of trying to expand access to healthcare,
(13:31):
particularly for low income women or African American women
who need those doula services and how hard it is to try and
sort of change the dynamic in a very healthcare centered,
hospital-based model?
I think for one, that's a loaded question,
(13:54):
but I'll just make it simple and just say,
at the root of this is a system that is broken,
that totally needs to be overhauled.
But it's kind of, and I'm not the expert on this system,
I just see the user end of it and also the policy end that
is going nowhere fast.
(14:14):
But at the root of this cannot be capitalism, but it is.
At the root of this cannot be making the doctor's
accommodations or their business model a priority over the
care of their patients.
I've seen too many times in pushing for legislation that
(14:35):
benefits the patients,
that policies that we're pushing that ultimately benefit
the medical providers, clientele, It's one,
not initiated by whatever the system is that is lobbying
collectively for the medical community.
(14:59):
One, not bringing these policies forward,
which you would think that it could come from that body of
representatives.
Or two, being directly engaged in dismantling it.
If there's a question about the business interests and
protections of the medical community, and that's a problem,
(15:19):
right?
I know that just this past legislative session,
I worked on behalf of my clients and organizations like
LPHI, they were engaged in this fully.
And we literally actually wrote,
we wrote the language for Senate Bill 190 that was carried
(15:42):
by Senator Boudreaux and approached him and shared the
problem, and he was very eager to support it.
So that bill,
which was designed to increase Medicaid reimbursement rates
absolutely impacts and supports a critical need that the
doctors are facing with being able to sustain healthy
business practices,
which in turn impacts the people that we care about who
(16:05):
can't get care because there's not enough doctors providing
Medicaid coverage.
And there's maternity desert.
So there's a direct ripple down effect to the people that
we care about that we're representing.
So just as we were able to see that as the birth work
community and a more social justice user end community,
(16:25):
something benefiting the doctors,
we need that same momentum coming from the medical
community to say, yeah,
we think that we can use our power and our leverage to say,
hey,
these are things that can make life better or preserve life
for our patients and people we care about,
but we're not necessarily seeing that same energy.
(16:47):
it comes to things that might be slightly controversial or
questionable about whether or not it creates a liability
for the medical community to just provide a service to
their patients.
Well, Frankie,
one of the things that I want to jump in on there is,
let's look at the data in Louisiana, okay,
(17:08):
because at one point there was some study,
I don't even remember the year on it,
that talked about how many caesarean sections we had,
and that we had like more C-sections than comparable
states, and it seemed like we were doing,
inducing babies or doing C-sections to accommodate the
(17:28):
schedules of OB-GYNs,
and so, you know, another issue is around you know,
OB-GYNs not wanting to partner with doulas or midwives or
sort of a continuum of care or sort of a new model to care
for pregnant women.
You know what I mean?
(17:48):
And so how do we sort of change the 19th century paradigm
to deal with the 21st century world and have a more,
I don't know,
patient-centered approach where it's not just driven by,
oh,
we can't see you till you're 12 weeks pregnant or because
(18:10):
we're worried you might have a miscarriage and we're
worried about criminalizing, you know, obstetrical care.
I mean, all of our priorities just seem whack right now.
I can't think of a better word around, you know,
how do we get people to then come back and say,
what's in the best interest of pregnant women?
(18:32):
And how do we fund doulas services?
How do we see women earlier?
How do we deal with the fear in the medical community that,
oh my gosh, if somebody has a miscarriage, you know,
it's going to affect my data as an OB-GYN.
Or, oh my god,
I might actually have to take care of a patient having a
(18:55):
miscarriage.
I mean,
we are in sort of a dystopian nightmare where doctors are
afraid of their patients.
Doctors are afraid of their patients.
It seems that perhaps the medical community members that
aren't speaking up or maybe, in your words,
afraid of the establishment itself, right,
(19:18):
repercussions from policymakers or people who are part of,
you know, maintaining the status quo.
I don't, I'm certainly not a physician,
so I can't speak for them,
but they're not afraid of their patients.
What I see, what I would like to see is,
more of a unified response from the medical community to
push back.
(19:38):
I mean,
there are people in the legislature that do not have any
sort of medical knowledge,
medical anything that are making decisions based upon party
speaking points and campaign promises or things that they
may not even truly believe in that are antiquated,
that are proven hypocritical in many instances.
And it's really time out for that.
(19:59):
When is someone going to stand up and say that this is
truly hurting people, this is hurting constituents,
this is hurting my patients and not leave others to put
themselves out there to come and speak out against this.
Like we have to be unafraid to do what's right.
And that's where I'm seeing some of the gaps as it relates
(20:21):
to the policy piece.
Look, this is not comfortable for anybody.
Anytime anybody speaks out and speaks the truth and goes
against the status quo, anybody.
with the understanding of just the the climate that we're
in knows that you're taking an element of the risk but if
you're looking of element of a risk but if you're looking
(20:41):
at knowing that what you were doing is right and this is
beyond you beyond your generation um saving lives on a
systemic level doing what's right and fair then you're not
calculating that individual risk to you you are standing on
your truth you're standing on your principles and you
realize that this is bigger than you so no people are not
(21:02):
afraid of their patient um perhaps there's times where
people are afraid of uh political um fallout or or
something like that and of course their own livelihood but
again if this is about the patient is if this is about life
if this is about moms and babies we have to approach this
this differently and do better
yeah i would agree and it's not i guess it's not so much
(21:23):
that they're afraid of their patients they're afraid that
providing the standard of care that they were trained to
provide to their patients now could put them in jail for 10
to 15 years in some circumstances and that that reasonably
is making people nervous and it's leading to these delays
in care in a state that already had a maternal mortality
(21:48):
crisis already had women dying of pregnancy related
complications that were in most circumstances like over 75
i think percent 80 of them were preventable.
These are things that we can prevent,
there are interventions that can happen before it gets to
(22:08):
that point but one of the things as Melissa was saying that
i think is so remarkable about what you're doing is you're
you're going back even earlier really pushing on creating a
sustainable community care kind of network and and having
the state support that so early on people can have the
(22:29):
support of doulas people can have access to a midwife.
And I think that that is really critical,
especially because, let's face it, I mean,
COVID really destroyed people's trust in the healthcare
system, generally.
But there has been a problem with trust with the healthcare
system among communities of color for a long time.
(22:52):
And we talked about this a little bit before we started
recording.
So I'm gonna kick it over to you, Melissa,
because I know you had a very specific question that you
wanted to ask about how people of color are treated in the
healthcare system.
Well, you know,
I just worry that we have such systemic racism in our
state, and we see it play out in terms of access to care,
(23:15):
and we see it play out in the data, okay?
And so one of the things that I'm so personally offended by
is when Dr.
Bill Cassidy, who's now our United States Senator,
in a very off-handed way said oh well our numbers aren't so
bad if you'd like take out the black people okay that's
(23:37):
sort of a paraphrase but that's literally what he said
"about a third of our population is african-american,
african-americans have a higher incidence of maternal
mortality so if you correct our population for race we're
not as much of an outlier as it otherwise appear now i say
that not to minimize the issue but to focus the issue as to
(23:58):
where it would be"
and when we're talking about maternal health and we're
talking about health outcomes you know louisiana it's more
dangerous to be a pregnant black woman in louisiana than
just about anywhere else in the world and so i'm just
struck by the the pervasive racism uh the pervasive uh i
(24:23):
don't babies are so precious and oh we have to protect the
babies and oh the babies the babies and then we don't
really care about the babies or the mothers of the babies
and then once the babies are born we definitely don't care
(24:45):
about them because we don't want to make sure that they've
got food clothing WIC diapers health care so if we really
cared about the babies why aren't we investing a continuum
of care that includes maternal health but also wick the
home visitation nurse family partnership um parental
(25:11):
support uh you know all those extra expenses that go along
with having babies and also why don't we have paid family
leave for you young or new mothers to help them you know
get through this transition and so you know my first
frankly,
is we want pregnant adolescents to have a baby on Friday
(25:34):
and go back to work in the drive-thru at Taco Bell on
Monday.
And it is just appalling.
And I don't know where the outrage is on behalf of all
these people who love babies.
And so, you know,
I'm just beyond worked up on just the hypocrisy and the mean
(25:59):
-spiritedness in our legislature that is just, well,
number one,
it's unchristian for all the Christian pro-life people.
And number two,
it is so destructive that so many of our young mothers
particularly don't get off to a good start,
(26:21):
able to support and nurture and feed and clothe their
children.
because of the economic stress.
And so, you know, that's sort of my rant of the moment.
Michelle, I'm not sure if that's the rant you wanted, but,
you know,
that's the one I can dial up on demand because it makes me
(26:42):
crazy.
Because for the most pro-life state in the country,
we are the least pro-baby.
Yeah, Frankie,
do you think we're the most pro-life state in the country?
Not by my definition of pro-life.
I mean,
by this definition of pro-life that people have created to
(27:03):
fit their own best interests and their own feel-good
opportunity to seem less like, you know,
a bad actor or a bad player or less faith-driven person,
you know, by that definition.
But no, we're not pro-life.
And I can speak to that on so many levels.
(27:25):
And no, it's hypocrisy, you know, at best.
But Melissa just mentioned just so many things.
There's such a load of questions.
So I'll just, I'll just start with Dr.
Cassidy.
We know that a few years back,
there was a lot of media on his statement about correcting
for removing the statistical data on Black women and,
(27:47):
you know, all may look well.
And I'm paraphrasing as well.
But the interesting thing is that fast forward,
maybe two years later, maybe even three at this point,
here we are with anti-Blackness being on full display and
not, quote, the way that it had been.
You've got dismantling DEI efforts.
(28:10):
That hurts everyone.
We know it mostly hurts white women.
It preserves the patriarchy.
So I'm going someplace with this, so just bear with me.
Now we see the layoffs and the total just destruction.
of certain departments and HHS and NIH.
(28:31):
And from what I understand,
there was or still is a pause on like PRAMM's data, right?
So it's just interesting that a few years ago,
this comment was made and fast forward, here we are.
There's a whole list of things that the federal government
and now soon, someone's trying to do it in the state too,
(28:52):
but state agency,
there's a bill filed for that to remove any sort of equity
-based anything based upon race, ethnicity, gender,
disability.
So again, like you look now and it's like, oh,
well he said that and he really meant it because now
there's efforts to not even have access to that data.
(29:12):
And there's efforts to make sure people don't say anything
about race disparities or black, right?
So here we are and it's all in our faces.
Now, Melissa brought up a lot of other.
points and I'll just try to centralize it like this.
When your goal is to preserve the patriarchy, yes,
(29:34):
you can say that I love babies and I love moms until they
are African American, until they are Hispanic,
until they are undocumented immigrants,
until they need protections in school under the Department
of Education.
(29:54):
You can say all of these things, but do you really mean it?
And I think the actions speak louder than words.
That answer is no.
So how can one even remotely be the true definition of pro
-life when in an effort to maintain the status quo and
attack blackness that you're willing to allow everyone in
(30:21):
between to be a part of the collateral damage in the name
of you're on your own after you give birth because there is
something that you are not doing right for the reason that
you can't eat or that you can't go to or that you are
working in a fast food job and making low wages.
The fact that you have health challenges is always a
(30:46):
blaming of that person and not the systems that created the
disparity that even after all of the education that's
there,
people are disregarding it or they are not willing to
educate themselves on how they are continuing to perpetuate
policy violence in the 2025 year, no different than 1920,
(31:15):
1930, 40, 56 to 70, 80.
There has to be willingness to do better and to be
individual thinkers.
to really earn that pro-life label and badge,
that is a true one.
And unfortunately we're not seeing that across the masses
and that is very problematic.
(31:38):
Yeah, I just,
I wanted to pick up on that because when it comes to some
of the things that you've been pushing,
it seems like a big barrier is that it would actually cost
the state a little bit of money to improve health outcomes,
to do the things that we know need to be done.
Right, it's costing the state to not do it.
(31:58):
It's costing the state to not do it, that's right.
And we also know that the Louisiana Right to Life has like
an extraordinary amount of power.
And so what we like to do on this podcast is point out the
F-g hypocrisy that's going on with the pro-life people in
general,
but the fact that they have spent zero of the massive
(32:22):
amounts of political capital that they have up in Baton
Rouge to help you get some of your policy priorities over
the finish line is extraordinary to me.
I mean, you do not see them showing up.
They have done what?
Zero.
Okay, great.
Okay, thanks.
Zero.
Correct.
(32:44):
Yeah, I mean, it's extraordinary.
It's extraordinary.
I think it goes back to your question.
And like I mentioned earlier on in this podcast, I mean,
it will just speak the truth.
I mean, for those of us who are pushing these policies,
and I hate to call them progressive,
they're just human rights policies,
(33:05):
and they're evidence based.
They're not things that we just made up one night and said,
Hey, let's try this.
They're evidence based policies, and they have minimal,
in many instances,
minimal fiscal investments that are necessary,
especially when you look at the exponential cost of doing
nothing,
we are constantly extending an olive branch reaching out
(33:27):
trying to build a network and educate people on what we
what needs to be done.
And there was there was a an attempt last legislative
session with representative from Right to Life.
And I, you know, had a meeting and said, Hey,
here's the things that we're working on.
(33:47):
And you know, where are you on this, will you support this?
And there was no support after that.
So like,
what is the definition of pro life that we're all working
with, I think, respectfully,
we have two operating definitions.
And as far as the legislature is concerned,
there were a lot of folks who were in support,
but there were key people who were not in support that
(34:08):
there wasn't even movement on one bill in particular.
And there were others that were so thank you,
but one bill in particular, that was less than $400,000,
that would have provided preconception labor and and
postpartum life-saving support that wasn't passed,
but there were millions of dollars spent on other things.
And most recently,
very disturbing that the community has really pushed back
(34:31):
on is that,
our executive branch of government is celebrating a $39
million price tag on building a juvenile facility in
central Louisiana.
In that same finance committee,
we literally sat for hours to plead the case on a very
(34:51):
small maternal health package to invest,
and there were no dollars to invest.
How can we make that make sense?
And how is that pro-life?
We're jailing children,
but we're not helping moms have healthy babies and giving
babies the opportunity to come into this world safely and
healthy.
Okay, well, Frankie, I just have to say it.
(35:12):
Listen,
if we wanted to invest in healthy babies and young children
and...
quality child care and early education,
we could divert young people getting off the rails in
middle school and high school because they'd have more
compassionate,
caring relationships and being able to bond with, I mean,
(35:33):
all that social,
emotional stuff and all the research says invest on the
front end, okay?
If one is gonna pay their parents a living wage and that
for every dollar, the minimum wage goes up,
infant mortality goes down by a percentage and that's been
presented in labor and industrial relations for many years
and that's fallen on deaf ears.
(35:55):
So the research is there,
why not pay the parents more so they can support themselves
and have access to top quality insurance?
Why not that?
We know the answer.
100%.
Well, what can we do in this upcoming legislative session?
What can advocates and citizens do to help support you,
help support better policy, more funding,
(36:18):
a more sane approach in Louisiana to support healthy babies
and healthy moms and getting kids off to a good start and
how can we mobilize to support you?
Well, one, we can show up.
There is no such thing as too little support.
The only thing that is unacceptable is not trying.
(36:41):
We all have our own special skills and talents and we know
where our bandwidth lies.
We know that there are some folks who are able to come to
the Capitol.
There are some people who may have the ear of a policymaker
while they're at church or they're out in sheer community
(37:01):
speaking to them about as their constituent why you care
about what you care about and put the pressure on them and
make sure that your voice is louder than others who are not
supporting the policies that we know that.
and babies need for one.
There's some folks who say, you know what,
(37:21):
I'm going to use my wallet or my pocketbook and I'm going
to support candidates who get it, right?
So make sure that you're supporting and are running for
office if that's your thing.
There's something simple as entertaining,
responding to a one-click to really just flood the
committee members with just education on certain topics.
(37:44):
But I think just being aware and not cradling and curling
up to what can be a very overwhelming experience for me
included and just making sure that we're doing something.
But I think for each of us on a basic level,
educating ourselves and in this anti-Black very blatantly
(38:05):
racist era that we are in, first of all, it's nothing new.
It's just more acceptable to be anti-Black.
and anti-diversity,
just making sure that you do your own homework to
understand the history of racist policies,
(38:25):
how we got where we are and the amount of strategic
systematic policy design that was there and that was
implemented at the federal and the state level to create
these poor health outcomes, to create the disparities,
to create everything and just know that that same level of
intentionality and energy has to go into dismantling it all
(38:49):
and accepting nothing less and just really fighting back
because we also cannot fold to what has been forced upon us
saying,
you can't say black, you can't say racism,
you can't say sexism, you can't say transgender.
I mean,
that is where it all starts and dictating and scaring
(39:12):
people into something.
What we can do is we can speak even louder and we can say
it anyways because if you're doing what's right and you
were always doing it for the right reasons,
it should not be something that should shut you down.
So I think that we should stand unified and stand up for
the principles that we've always said that we stood up for
now more than ever.
(39:33):
Well, amen to that. Frankie, you are awesome. You are tough.
You show up at the Capitol.
You take more crap than most people realize.
You are fearless and you have a lot of people who hold you
in high regard and that follow your lead.
And so I just wanna say thank you for your tenacity,
(39:56):
for your compassion and for your courage because courage is
contagious.
And so we have to continue to advocate because Michelle,
seriously,
we are in a world of hurt in Louisiana and it's an all
hands on deck moment.
and thank you, Frankie.
(40:17):
Thank you, Frankie, so much.
We love you,
and we're gonna be there with you this whole legislative
session, and we'd love to have you back.
Thank you, happy to be back anytime,
and thank you both for your fearless dedication,
leadership, and advocacy.
I think we have to work together despite the forces that
try to compartmentalize the work that we do because it's
(40:41):
all connected, and we can't stop until they see that.
There are no compartments, it is all connected,
and we have to make sure that people understand that and
move forward to a better place for all of us.
Agreed.
So, Melissa,
(41:01):
we like to just express our complete and utter exasperation
with what the hell is going on, both in Louisiana,
but around the country.
So,
I'm going to start off by telling you what made me think,
oh my God, seriously this week.
So there has been this whole back and forth happening in
(41:24):
Congress over whether or not new moms can get 12 weeks off
and be able to proxy vote so they don't have to just
completely miss votes in Congress after they have a baby.
A Democratic representative and a Republican representative
(41:45):
kind of teamed up and started doing some maneuvering,
basically outsmarted Mike Johnson,
who obviously is our favorite, right?
Mike Johnson.
Mike Johnson hails from where you grew up, Melissa,
up in the Shreveport area.
Mike Johnson, with his tiny little Napoleon complex,
(42:06):
could not be outsmarted by these two women.
And so he basically shut Congress down to avoid allowing a
vote to go forward on literally just giving new moms 12
weeks to proxy vote so they don't have to miss out on
critical votes in Congress to take care of their new
(42:28):
babies.
I mean, this is just outrageous.
And again, this is like pro-life freaking evangelical,
you know, walks with Jesus.
Mike Johnson is stopping new moms from being able to
participate fully in their jobs in Congress.
It's unbelievable.
Oh my God.
Let's talk about hypocrisy.
(42:49):
Okay.
I am from Shreveport originally.
I do not know Mike Johnson personally well.
When he was in the legislature,
he always walked around and said, you know,
I'm a constitutional lawyer.
And he was sort of made fun of for because, you know,
it was just,
he's just always been pretentious and sort of holier than
(43:10):
that.
And I think it really turns people off.
But a lot of people,
People really like him because he seems so calm and so
nice.
And, you know,
he does have a good haircut and he does seem like a nice
guy.
Well, they do say religion is the opiate of the masses.
So maybe he's just high.
Well, you know, here's the deal.
(43:30):
He also fancies himself one of the most pro-life people in
the country.
And this is the ultimate hypocrisy, okay?
During COVID, people could vote by proxy.
I do not understand the underlying fear of this.
It was intended to be for both new mothers and new fathers.
It started out with that Democratic woman congressman who
(43:54):
then recruited, I believe,
nine Republicans to go along with her.
There's a much greater groundswell.
You know,
if you are super pro-life and all about families and
supporting families, this should have been a no-brainer.
And and so that's what I don't understand is that they say
one thing and do another all of this posturing about Jesus
(44:19):
and Christianity and compassion and babies.
It's just a fraud.
It's a fraud because when push came to shove and he could
do something to support new parents, both moms and dads.
He chose not to.
And so I just think this is typical.
(44:41):
You know, Michelle, this is typical.
You know, we see it in the Louisiana legislature.
All of these folks that want to beat their chest and talk
about how pro-life they are, you know,
turn around and be against WIC and turn around and be
against Medicaid services for new moms or against other
services or even in Louisiana.
(45:01):
We don't have paid family leave for new parents.
We don't have any support of new parents.
And so, you know,
I just want to call bullshit on pro-life Christians who are
not in support of families and are not in support of
encouraging people to raise healthy babies and do not think
(45:25):
strategically at all about what we can do to ensure that
our most vulnerable brand new citizens get off to a good
start with love,
compassion, food,
care and the stability that they need to start a new life.
(45:46):
And, you know, just, you know,
don't get me started on Mike Johnson and the Congress
because these guys don't care about people.
They don't care about people.
They care about Donald Trump.
And that's all they seem to care about.
And Donald Trump is a cancer on the country.
(46:10):
America white again,
and this white Christian nationalism racism is setting our
country back a hundred years and is just appalling.
Yeah, I hear that.
All right.
Well, so that was mine.
Do you have anything else you want to rant about today,
(46:31):
Melissa?
Well,
I guess I just want to rant about why we want poor people
in our country.
You know,
we're making policy decisions every day to keep people
poor.
And then we want to demonize poverty.
(46:51):
And so I just want to uh get people to sort of wake up and
understand what's really going on and to understand that
here in the state of Louisiana we haven't raised the
minimum wage since 2009 you know we don't provide access to
any kind of paid leave that we have a policy of keeping
(47:14):
people poor and then we want to punish them because they're
too poor and we want to defund education we want to defund
health care we want to defund services in communities we
want to defund child care and quality child care but we
want to build juvenile prisons and prosecute 15-year-olds
(47:35):
as adults we just beat back some terrible constitutional
amendments uh at the end of March but in our new
legislative session we want to have a new bill that says we
can prosecute 15-year-olds as adults we want to spend
hundreds of millions of dollars building juvenile prisons
(47:55):
and so I just want to say let's spend hundreds of millions
of dollars on babies and young kids and elementary age kids
so they don't need to go to prison okay pay for it now or
pay more later i've been saying this for 35 years in the
Louisiana legislature and I am just beyond aggravated
(48:19):
because we see prisons as economic development and we now
see juvenile prisons as rural economic development and so
my new frustration is private prisons and here in Louisiana
we have more ICE detainees in private prisons in Louisiana
(48:39):
second only to Texas and so there is something bad wrong in
the dark heart of our elected officials we need to do more
than pray for them we need to organize we need to get
people to see us so we can do it in the community so we can
do it in the community to run,
we need to have transformational and generational change in
Louisiana,
and we need to put people first and not put money first.
(49:05):
And so I'm aggravated most of the time, Michelle,
but I appreciate the opportunity to be on with you.
Because, you know, Louisiana, you know,
most folks think that we can't change Louisiana,
so why bother?
And the only thing I will say is we definitely can't change
(49:26):
Louisiana if we don't show up.
And so we have to keep fighting and keep organizing and
keep educating and encouraging young people across the
state of Louisiana to be better informed and to call their
legislators to show up at the Capitol and literally say
(49:47):
enough is enough.
We can do better.
We can do better and we deserve better in Louisiana.
I want to do a commercial for 10,000 Women.
If anybody in Louisiana is listening to this podcast,
go to 10,000
Women Louisiana and sign up for training on advocacy.
(50:08):
Look at ways to come to the Capitol.
10,000
Women partners with Lift Louisiana for our Women on Wednesday
initiative.
We're trying to get more women across the state of
Louisiana to be informed advocates because we need people
to stand up, speak up, show up and fight back.
(50:30):
And so women of all ages and races need to see the utility
and the solidarity that we are all in this together.
And we need to work together to lift up the voices of all
people in Louisiana,
especially our most disadvantaged and most vulnerable
(50:51):
pregnant mothers in a time of crisis.
I just want to thank you so much, Melissa,
for guest hosting.
This was a pleasure.
I hope we can do it again.
We are going to be hosting people at the Capitol for
Reproductive Freedom Day on May 7th.
So we will put a link in the show notes for how people can
(51:13):
register for that.
You can come to the Capitol, you can learn how to advocate,
see how the legislative process works.
We'll hopefully try to connect you to meet with your
legislator, have a conversation with them.
Some of them are too scared to come talk to their
constituents,
but we know who they are so we can confront them.
Yeah, that's probably just going to do it for us this week.
(51:37):
Well, thanks Michelle.
It's great to be out here in the world advocating with you
and all the folks that care about women's rights and
children's rights and reproductive rights here in
Louisiana.
across the country and we've got to all understand that
we've got to continue to show up every day and so thank you
(51:59):
for the opportunity to be on with you on seriously because
Louisiana we are the canary in the coal mine and and and
thank you for the opportunity I appreciate it.
All right we'll talk to y'all next week.
Seriously is presented by Lift Louisiana a nonprofit
(52:20):
organization advocating for reproductive health rights and
justice.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.