Afghanistan travel Influencers, Taylor Swift's Engagement, Poland Prenatal Testing rates & Ultra Violette Sunscreen Recall

This week on Spin Cycle, Gab and Claire dive into four stories shaping the headlines — and the biases beneath them:

• Afghanistan Influencer Tourism – An Australian influencer’s travel vlog from Taliban-run Afghanistan sparks backlash. Is it cultural insight, propaganda, or something in between?

• Taylor Swift’s Engagement – Behind the flawless PR rollout: power, control, and why prenups matter when love meets billion-dollar empires.

• Iceland’s Prenatal Testing – With near-universal screening and termination for genetic abnormalities, we unpack the ethics of “choice,” eugenics, and women carrying the moral weight.

• Ultra Violette Sunscreen Recall – Australia’s cult SPF brand faces customer fury after testing revealed products failed to protect. Trust broken, reputation on the line.

Plus, what’s been living rent-free in our heads this week: Princess Diana’s enduring legacy and TikTok conspiracies about Trump.

If you enjoy the episode, follow Spin Cycle, leave a quick rating, and flick it to a friend who loves a good debate.

Episode Transcript

(00:35):
.294117647Your true self. 11 00:00:36,779.411764706 --> 00:00:37,926.470588235 I was possess your old to ego. 12 00:00:37,926.470588235 --> 00:00:38,661.764705882 I was possessed. 13 00:00:38,661.764705882 --> 00:00:49,44.117647059 And what are we talking about? We're talking about the chemist warehouse of, what are they called? The CW hotel experience that we went to in Melbourne on Saturday, 54 bucks for a ticket. 14 00:00:49,132.352941176 --> 00:01:00,14.705882353 And I'm telling you, the product that we walked out with, I would say one of those shampoos, maybe two, maybe a shampoo conditioner was $54 and we walked out with. 15 00:01:00,14.705882353 --> 00:01:01,779.411764706 F crazily. 16 00:01:01,808.823529412 --> 00:01:05,897.058823529 Three massive bags full of not sample. 17 00:01:06,73.529411765 --> 00:01:07,73.529411765 Full-sized product. 18 00:01:07,220.588235294 --> 00:01:07,544.117647059 Yeah. 19 00:01:07,544.117647059 --> 00:01:10,426.470588235 I would say I assaulted the Fonde Sweetss. 20 00:01:10,602.941176471 --> 00:01:11,220.588235294 Oh yeah. 21 00:01:11,808.823529412 --> 00:01:12,367.647058824 Stand. 22 00:01:12,573.529411765 --> 00:01:15,867.647058824 And it's, when I say bags, I don't mean like a little pathetic canvas bag. 23 00:01:15,867.647058824 --> 00:01:18,367.647058824 I'm talking a big duffle bag. 24 00:01:18,426.470588235 --> 00:01:19,220.588235294 A duffle bag, yeah.

(01:19):
.941176471That they gave us, yes. 26 00:01:21,132.352941176 --> 00:01:27,779.411764706 Plus other bags, like as we are leaving, they're like, don't forget to take your oversized stuffed duffle bag full of even more. 27 00:01:28,367.647058824 --> 00:01:31,485.294117647 You went last year, you introduced it to our friends this year. 28 00:01:32,161.764705882 --> 00:01:33,779.411764706 I think I'll be going again next year. 29 00:01:34,44.117647059 --> 00:01:34,426.470588235 Yeah. 30 00:01:34,485.294117647 --> 00:01:38,661.764705882 But also like everything I got, I either gave away or used, like nothing got wasted. 31 00:01:38,779.411764706 --> 00:01:46,44.11764706 But the scarcity mindset crossed with being put in basically every woman's dream playground. 32 00:01:46,44.11764706 --> 00:01:54,230.39215686 I remember going through the event and there was like this podiatrist in a section and I would love to do it more petties at home. 33 00:01:54,230.39215686 --> 00:01:58,73.52941176 It's just saying much is so, don't worry, there'll be a foot scraper in your back.

(01:58):
.64705882There wasn't a foot scrapper in my back and despite everything else that I got, which is amazing, I found myself sad about the foot scraper and I was like, you are psychotic. 35 00:02:08,485.29411765 --> 00:02:09,750 Do you want mine? Did.
.88235294Did you get one? Oh yeah, I got one. 37 00:02:10,710.78431373 --> 00:02:11,397.05882353 See, I'm crazy. 38 00:02:11,397.05882353 --> 00:02:12,220.58823529 No, don't give it. 39 00:02:12,220.58823529 --> 00:02:13,426.47058824 I need to learn my lesson. 40 00:02:13,514.70588235 --> 00:02:14,573.52941176 Okay, fair enough. 41 00:02:14,602.94117647 --> 00:02:15,161.76470588 I'll take it though. 42 00:02:15,990.19607843 --> 00:02:16,392.15686275 It's yours. 43 00:02:18,304.15686275 --> 00:02:30,833.56862745 Coming up this week on spin cycle, the Afghanistan influencer dilemma, travel propaganda, or both Taylor Swift's engagement, power control, and prenups, as well as Iceland's prenatal testing and the ethics of choice. 44 00:02:30,862.98039216 --> 00:02:56,576.11764706 And finally, when your sunscreen doesn't screen the ultraviolet recall Welcome to Spin Cycle, where we dig into the stories shaping the world and take a closer look at the patterns, power plays. 45 00:02:56,576.11764706 --> 00:03:04,286.11764706 And yes, the biases hiding in plain sight where Gab and Claire, two friends with MBAs, A lot of opinions and a healthy amount of skepticism. 46 00:03:04,586.11764706 --> 00:03:07,586.11764706 We're here to help you think twice and maybe have a few laughs. 47 00:03:07,886.11764706 --> 00:03:08,661.11764706 Let's get spinning. 48 00:03:09,30.64745898 --> 00:03:20,530.64745898 but first Gab, what's top of mind for you this week? For me, it definitely has to be that it's the 28th anniversary of the death of the People's Princess, princess Diana. 49 00:03:20,824.76510604 --> 00:03:21,501.23569428 Oh my goodness. 50 00:03:21,501.23569428 --> 00:03:22,648.29451781 It's been 28 years. 51 00:03:22,697.31412565 --> 00:03:31,854.17687075 It has, I, I've just remembered that I, I had a, a bottle of non-A bubbles because we are, we are so good lately in the fridge to like have a drink for die to get out. 52 00:03:31,854.17687075 --> 00:03:33,133.58863545 You had a drink for Lady Die? We forgot. 53 00:03:33,133.58863545 --> 00:03:36,736.52981192 I got it ready for us, but I, I realize it's in the fridge, but that's okay. 54 00:03:36,736.52981192 --> 00:03:38,265.94157663 We can have it after another time. 55 00:03:38,324.76510604 --> 00:03:38,780.64745898 Yeah, another time. 56 00:03:39,780.64745898 --> 00:03:41,986.52981192 But yeah, people's princess 28 years. 57 00:03:41,986.52981192 --> 00:03:47,457.11804722 And I think what's so crazy is even now, 28 years later, she's still so relevant. 58 00:03:47,819.86314526 --> 00:03:51,525.7454982 Influencing fashion, it just, everything The lady die. 59 00:03:51,555.15726291 --> 00:03:52,584.56902761 Revenge dress. 60 00:03:52,584.56902761 --> 00:03:54,172.80432173 The revenge dress, absolutely. 61 00:03:54,172.80432173 --> 00:03:57,280.64745898 But also that's sort of nineties retro it's coming back. 62 00:03:57,378.68667467 --> 00:03:59,702.21608643 Tennis kind of elite vibe. 63 00:03:59,917.90236094 --> 00:04:01,859.07883153 That elevated sort of active wear. 64 00:04:02,64.96118447 --> 00:04:03,653.19647859 Yeah, she was. 65 00:04:03,888.49059624 --> 00:04:05,153.19647859 Oh, she was on league of her own. 66 00:04:05,300.25530212 --> 00:04:05,712.020008 Yeah. 67 00:04:05,716.92196879 --> 00:04:16,731.62785114 And, and what's top of mind for you? Top of mind for me this week would be is that on TikTok, my algorithm is serving me all the conspiracy theories that Donald Trump is dead. 68 00:04:16,937.51020408 --> 00:04:19,437.51020408 Oh, you showed me this just before this. 69 00:04:19,584.56902761 --> 00:04:21,143.39255702 I had not seen anything. 70 00:04:21,555.15726291 --> 00:04:24,25.7454982 But now I'm starting to believe the conspiracies. 71 00:04:24,55.15726291 --> 00:04:32,643.39255702 What has absolutely been fuel to the fire, and I feel like it's in part media trolling this or trying to keep it going is that the media pack are like, yeah, he's fine. 72 00:04:32,643.39255702 --> 00:04:33,643.39255702 He's gone to golf. 73 00:04:33,966.92196879 --> 00:04:39,702.21608643 But then they proceed to provide footage that's like four years old or months old that we've already seen before. 74 00:04:39,731.62785114 --> 00:04:51,270.84353741 And how quickly the conspiracy theorists were like, why are they showing us footage of him playing golf in June? And I saw that some of the conspiracy theorists said that it's footage from 2019. 75 00:04:51,594.37294918 --> 00:04:55,182.6082433 I must say that that footage, he does look younger and healthier. 76 00:04:55,241.43177271 --> 00:04:58,94.37294918 Mm, I I, I would believe that it was years ago. 77 00:04:58,153.19647859 --> 00:04:59,775.7454982 Well, he says he is a fine specimen of health. 78 00:05:00,618.8827531 --> 00:05:01,824.76510604 He eats McDonald's every day. 79 00:05:02,148.29451781 --> 00:05:02,354.17687075 Oh God. 80 00:05:03,334.56902761 --> 00:05:04,69.86314526 Does he? Sorry, wait. 81 00:05:04,69.86314526 --> 00:05:04,246.33373349 Yeah. 82 00:05:04,246.33373349 --> 00:05:06,540.45138055 Yeah, he's like, he loves a good McDonald's. 83 00:05:06,540.45138055 --> 00:05:07,996.33373349 I mean, I also love a, a good McDonald. 84 00:05:08,74.76510604 --> 00:05:11,638.49059624 I mean, you and I love McDonald's, but not as much as Donald Trump though as much as him. 85 00:05:11,756.13765506 --> 00:05:12,79.66706683 No. 86 00:05:12,256.13765506 --> 00:05:22,408.49059624 My second favorite thing is that people are saying that his, truth social posts have obviously been written by chat, GPT 'cause they're a coherent, and B, they have a lot of m dashes in them. 87 00:05:22,746.72589036 --> 00:05:23,933.00040016 Oh, do they? That's the truth. 88 00:05:23,933.00040016 --> 00:05:26,844.76510604 And, um, the M dashes are such a giveaway. 89 00:05:26,913.39255702 --> 00:05:27,648.68667467 A hundred percent. 90 00:05:27,648.68667467 --> 00:05:33,501.62785114 It's not hard to remove it, just get rid of it or instruct your GBT preferences to not ever use m dashes. 91 00:05:33,560.45138055 --> 00:05:34,31.03961585 It's true. 92 00:05:34,89.86314526 --> 00:05:36,707.51020408 GPT is smart enough to, to do that. 93 00:05:38,188.13765506 --> 00:05:49,99.90236094 Gab this week, Australian influencer, Chloe Baginski, posted a balanced travel vlog from Taliban run Afghanistan, and it has been a whirlwind. 94 00:05:49,305.78471389 --> 00:05:58,717.54941977 So initially, Chloe faced a massive pile on with multiple podcasters, including comedian rosy waterland, calling the trend appalling. 95 00:05:59,452.84353741 --> 00:06:08,482.25530212 And also the girls from Big Small Talk who are normally really balanced and well research, calling out and accusing Chloe Bar Rodinsky of being sponsored by the Taliban. 96 00:06:09,482.25530212 --> 00:06:11,158.72589036 Chloe fired back on TikTok. 97 00:06:11,394.020008 --> 00:06:17,746.96118447 And now we're in a debate about tourism ethics and whether you can show a country's beauty without laundering its regime. 98 00:06:18,305.78471389 --> 00:06:22,952.84353741 So to frame this for you guys, Afghanistan is under the Taliban at the moment? Mm-hmm. 99 00:06:23,217.54941977 --> 00:06:24,570.49059624 Currently for a long time now. 100 00:06:24,688.13765506 --> 00:06:24,864.6082433 Yeah. 101 00:06:24,864.6082433 --> 00:06:26,305.78471389 Since what? The seventies? Yeah. 102 00:06:26,982.25530212 --> 00:06:29,658.72589036 And women's freedoms are severely restricted. 103 00:06:29,746.96118447 --> 00:06:33,394.020008 The lgbtq plus people are not safe there. 104 00:06:33,423.43177271 --> 00:06:38,629.31412565 Sanctions bike locals are broke and tourism is creeping back in. 105 00:06:39,305.78471389 --> 00:06:41,952.84353741 So the argument really splits it like this. 106 00:06:42,188.13765506 --> 00:06:45,923.43177271 Visiting injects money to ordinary people that are starved of income. 107 00:06:46,55.78471389 --> 00:06:54,595.00040016 Yeah, but then you verse that to Visa's, taxes, optics can sell the benefit that the Taliban and risk normalizing the brutal status quo. 108 00:06:54,977.35334134 --> 00:07:03,506.76510604 So what do you think? Do you think she's sponsored by the Taliban? I mean, I can't imagine anyone in their right minds would be promoting tourism. 109 00:07:03,830.29451781 --> 00:07:03,977.35334134 No. 110 00:07:03,977.35334134 --> 00:07:09,624.41216487 So I don't believe that she's received money or has she's been approached to go for this trip for free. 111 00:07:10,536.17687075 --> 00:07:19,565.58863545 On behalf of the Taliban in Australia, you are required to put a sponsored on your post where you are receiving a financial benefit, or it doesn't even have to be a financial benefit. 112 00:07:19,565.58863545 --> 00:07:21,536.17687075 It can be any benefit associated. 113 00:07:21,536.17687075 --> 00:07:21,604.80432173 All gifted. 114 00:07:21,653.82392957 --> 00:07:22,565.58863545 Gifted, correct. 115 00:07:22,742.05922369 --> 00:07:34,153.82392957 Chloe has not done that, and Chloe is someone I would say that does like to hold herself to certain standards, so I believe that she was not sponsored by the Taliban. 116 00:07:35,153.82392957 --> 00:07:38,95.00040016 What kind of travel? Like talk me through, I, I'm new to this woman. 117 00:07:38,153.82392957 --> 00:07:48,418.52981192 What kind of travel? Is it solo travel? Is she, what's her vibe like? Is Afghanistan part of her vibe or is this very out of whack? No, I would say Chloe goes to a lot of different places. 118 00:07:48,447.94157663 --> 00:07:55,423.43177271 Like she's someone who will go to these sort of, you know, the places where you look at and you are like, that's a 50 hour flight, or, I've gotta go through eight different connections. 119 00:07:55,423.43177271 --> 00:07:55,619.51020408 Okay. 120 00:07:55,619.51020408 --> 00:07:56,977.35334134 So like, just niche places. 121 00:07:56,977.35334134 --> 00:07:57,565.58863545 Niche places. 122 00:07:57,565.58863545 --> 00:07:58,359.70628251 But yeah, like. 123 00:07:58,859.70628251 --> 00:08:04,947.94157663 I don't have going on a 50 hour flight to get there in me like, you know, five different flights and going on like the worst type of connections. 124 00:08:04,947.94157663 --> 00:08:05,742.05922369 Yes, she does it. 125 00:08:06,389.11804722 --> 00:08:10,918.52981192 And Chloe went with a female friend and she was, showed hospitality. 126 00:08:11,36.17687075 --> 00:08:15,242.05922369 She saw beautiful the band, DME Lakes, the Blue Mosque markets. 127 00:08:15,447.94157663 --> 00:08:17,595.00040016 And she did say at times she felt really safe. 128 00:08:18,330.29451781 --> 00:08:25,95.00040016 She also highlighted the limits for women and she said comments like, women would not be allowed here, or we were allowed here, but women are not. 129 00:08:25,242.05922369 --> 00:08:26,359.70628251 Women are able to drive. 130 00:08:26,359.70628251 --> 00:08:36,124.41216487 I'm driving, but I'm not allowed to do this, or I'm having a meal right now and just for comfort, I've taken off my headscarf and the locals have let me know that if they see the Taliban, they'll tell me to put it back on. 131 00:08:36,433.23569428 --> 00:08:41,903.82392957 You know what? I saw one video, which this, 'cause when you mentioned this to me, I've gone, I think I've seen this, and it was her. 132 00:08:41,903.82392957 --> 00:08:52,315.58863545 She fell asleep in a cab and the scarf fell and then she looked up and then someone was looking at the Taliban were looking at her in the window of the car and she had to like quickly chuck the scarf back on. 133 00:08:52,639.11804722 --> 00:08:52,874.41216487 Yeah. 134 00:08:53,580.29451781 --> 00:08:56,962.64745898 People got really inflamed because she said, no one hassles you here. 135 00:08:57,168.52981192 --> 00:09:10,933.23569428 And I think that landed a little bit like sandpaper because Afghan women don't actually get a lot of the benefits that Chloe gets to enjoy in the Western world, but they also don't get the think the benefits of what Chloe was enjoying in Afghanistan itself. 136 00:09:11,256.76510604 --> 00:09:18,256.76510604 Women in Afghanistan, they're not allowed to go to, school past basic age to past primary school, They're not allowed to seek education. 137 00:09:18,256.76510604 --> 00:09:19,639.11804722 They're rarely allowed to work. 138 00:09:19,933.23569428 --> 00:09:22,345.00040016 They're not allowed unscored in public places. 139 00:09:22,874.41216487 --> 00:09:25,668.52981192 They have so many restrictions on their day to day. 140 00:09:26,70.49059624 --> 00:09:29,511.66706683 The Taliban are constantly putting new rules on them to, really silence them. 141 00:09:29,864.6082433 --> 00:09:37,771.4709884 And I think in contrast to Chloe's experience, it made me question would I do that knowing that their own people cannot. 142 00:09:38,717.54941977 --> 00:09:48,217.54941977 Yeah, and Rosie Waterland talked about the trend on her podcast, not naming anyone, and then posted a notes, app statement after copying heat. 143 00:09:48,599.90236094 --> 00:09:54,217.54941977 The key points from the posts you can read yourself, but essentially the first quote was. 144 00:09:54,982.25530212 --> 00:09:59,99.90236094 What was initially just bizarre to me has now become something else entirely. 145 00:09:59,305.78471389 --> 00:10:05,197.94157663 Yesterday, an influencer made a video that directed her followers to come after me for publicly bullying her. 146 00:10:05,433.23569428 --> 00:10:07,433.23569428 I did not publicly bully this person. 147 00:10:07,433.23569428 --> 00:10:08,609.70628251 Her name wasn't mentioned. 148 00:10:09,50.8827531 --> 00:10:15,550.8827531 I will say I listened to Rosie Waterland podcast, and Rosie, you know, is tongue in cheek. 149 00:10:15,550.8827531 --> 00:10:16,521.4709884 She's very satirical. 150 00:10:17,477.35334134 --> 00:10:21,36.17687075 Did she say, I bet she's getting money from the Taliban? Yes, she did. 151 00:10:21,124.41216487 --> 00:10:22,815.58863545 Should she have done that? Probably not. 152 00:10:23,742.05922369 --> 00:10:27,712.64745898 But I do think a lot of what Rosie was said was taken out of context. 153 00:10:27,712.64745898 --> 00:10:37,36.17687075 And when you listen to the whole conversation, she did raise a lot of the points that we raised in terms of was it the right ethical choice, regardless of sponsored, not sponsored to go to Afghanistan. 154 00:10:37,506.76510604 --> 00:10:50,99.90236094 And are you aware of this almost glorification of ality that people seek by going to places like Afghanistan, thinking they'll get views and commentary on their posts? Well, that's what I'm trying to work out is. 155 00:10:50,786.17687075 --> 00:11:02,403.82392957 What was the influencer's strategy? You know, why would you do this? Was she finding that she's getting a lull in engagement? She really wanted to push reach again, like this, certainly to me feels like a PR stunt. 156 00:11:03,403.82392957 --> 00:11:03,903.82392957 Yeah. 157 00:11:04,168.52981192 --> 00:11:07,639.11804722 But she also said in a video, I wasn't even going to post that. 158 00:11:07,639.11804722 --> 00:11:12,452.84353741 I went, was that just sort of just said in, element? Yeah, but there were multiple posts. 159 00:11:12,452.84353741 --> 00:11:13,31.27490996 There were multiple posts, yes. 160 00:11:13,31.27490996 --> 00:11:15,972.45138055 It was very considered, I think as well. 161 00:11:16,472.45138055 --> 00:11:25,501.86314526 Chloe made attempts to be balanced, but I also think because Gab, you and I are so progressive, that's why we are sitting so uncomfortably on this. 162 00:11:25,854.80432173 --> 00:11:37,987.15726291 Well, that's the thing is in the state of ACA Afghanistan right now, how could you possibly promote travel to there? It, it almost is that symbol that you agree with what's happening there, right? Yeah. 163 00:11:37,987.15726291 --> 00:11:37,996.96118447 Yeah. 164 00:11:38,487.15726291 --> 00:11:38,957.7454982 And look. 165 00:11:39,678.33373349 --> 00:11:40,472.45138055 Chloe was hurt. 166 00:11:40,531.27490996 --> 00:11:45,913.62785114 Well, I watched her review back to Rosie Waterland and it was obvious that she was hurt by what was said. 167 00:11:46,31.27490996 --> 00:11:46,207.7454982 Mm-hmm. 168 00:11:46,237.15726291 --> 00:11:47,531.27490996 She felt attacked. 169 00:11:47,619.51020408 --> 00:11:47,766.56902761 Mm-hmm. 170 00:11:47,795.98079232 --> 00:11:52,795.98079232 I think she was right to call out that I wasn't paid by the Taliban, but I think it's also okay for us to say. 171 00:11:53,1.86314526 --> 00:11:54,884.21608643 But you did pay visa fees. 172 00:11:54,884.21608643 --> 00:11:56,737.15726291 You did contribute money. 173 00:11:56,742.05922369 --> 00:11:57,526.37294918 That's their economy. 174 00:11:57,526.37294918 --> 00:11:59,501.86314526 That benefited the Taliban directly. 175 00:11:59,501.86314526 --> 00:11:59,560.68667467 Yeah. 176 00:11:59,678.33373349 --> 00:12:02,648.92196879 But you also gave a lot of much needed money to locals. 177 00:12:03,320.49059624 --> 00:12:03,604.80432173 Yeah. 178 00:12:04,648.92196879 --> 00:12:04,678.33373349 Okay. 179 00:12:05,134.21608643 --> 00:12:15,124.41216487 So where do we go from here then? I mean, gab, would you go somewhere like Afghanistan? Personally I wouldn't feel safe being there in the state of the nation as it is now. 180 00:12:15,124.41216487 --> 00:12:19,300.8827531 No, I think a lot will have to change for me to reconsider that as part of my travel list. 181 00:12:19,389.11804722 --> 00:12:21,300.8827531 Yeah, I am very much the same. 182 00:12:21,300.8827531 --> 00:12:26,6.76510604 I would not be having Afghanistan on my list, but at the same time. 183 00:12:26,830.29451781 --> 00:12:32,477.35334134 Economic prosperity to the locals is how they can create change. 184 00:12:33,75.39255702 --> 00:12:44,898.92196879 It is a really tough one because I don't wanna support a regime that, creates fear and oppresses so many people and restricts the liberties that we enjoy. 185 00:12:45,251.86314526 --> 00:12:49,898.92196879 But at the same time, they have many people that are desperately trying to survive. 186 00:12:49,987.15726291 --> 00:12:50,75.39255702 Yeah. 187 00:12:50,281.27490996 --> 00:12:52,428.33373349 But perhaps tourism is not the solution. 188 00:12:53,16.56902761 --> 00:12:53,957.7454982 No, I think you're right there. 189 00:12:54,45.98079232 --> 00:12:54,310.68667467 Yeah. 190 00:12:56,222.68667467 --> 00:13:06,546.21608643 Claire, we need to talk about the biggest thing that's happened in the news in terms of positivity over the last week, and that is the fact that Taylor Swift is engaged. 191 00:13:07,541.31412565 --> 00:13:08,516.80432173 So I'm so excited. 192 00:13:09,163.86314526 --> 00:13:09,310.92196879 I know. 193 00:13:09,310.92196879 --> 00:13:09,428.56902761 Me too. 194 00:13:09,957.98079232 --> 00:13:16,673.66706683 So she's 35, she's got her billion dollar empire and meticulously curated public image. 195 00:13:16,732.49059624 --> 00:13:19,203.07883153 And we've been given the layers of her story. 196 00:13:19,203.07883153 --> 00:13:19,879.54941977 We've seen it all. 197 00:13:19,879.54941977 --> 00:13:19,967.78471389 Mm-hmm. 198 00:13:20,203.07883153 --> 00:13:26,310.92196879 You know, a lot of her albums really bring to life the, the love the breakups, what's happened. 199 00:13:26,634.45138055 --> 00:13:30,997.19647859 You know, she's really built herself up and has become this woman of inspiration to a lot. 200 00:13:31,306.020008 --> 00:13:33,953.07883153 Of our generation and generations beyond us. 201 00:13:34,41.31412565 --> 00:13:43,158.96118447 So now we found out that she's engaged and it's bringing around some new angles to her story and it's really started conversations. 202 00:13:43,806.020008 --> 00:13:46,923.66706683 Yeah, I loved how it was executed. 203 00:13:46,923.66706683 --> 00:13:50,428.56902761 I am shocked that how well they did it, keeping it under wraps Consider. 204 00:13:51,203.07883153 --> 00:13:56,320.72589036 Considering who was involved, absolutely flawless PR execution from her publicist tree pain. 205 00:13:56,467.78471389 --> 00:13:57,938.37294918 That woman is a mastermind. 206 00:13:58,438.37294918 --> 00:14:02,732.49059624 Well, how long did they keep it under wraps before they pub published it at least a week. 207 00:14:03,26.6082433 --> 00:14:03,644.25530212 That's a long time. 208 00:14:03,644.25530212 --> 00:14:06,761.90236094 The ring was beautifully done, and I love the fact that it was done. 209 00:14:06,997.19647859 --> 00:14:10,703.07883153 A small women's business like Travis Kelsey really knew. 210 00:14:11,129.54941977 --> 00:14:19,276.6082433 Oh, the requirements he gets points on, he gets so many points, but then it's also created this really ageist undercurrent in how people are talking about it. 211 00:14:20,129.54941977 --> 00:14:20,511.90236094 Yeah. 212 00:14:20,570.72589036 --> 00:14:27,570.72589036 And that, I think that's what's really troubling me about it because, and this always happens when it comes to women in their thirties. 213 00:14:28,158.96118447 --> 00:14:31,276.6082433 For some reason, people feel the need. 214 00:14:31,688.37294918 --> 00:14:41,806.020008 To almost go, oh, but they'll meet someone sometime like the resolution to life is to settle down and find someone when there's so much more that someone can accomplish in their life, and it's so important. 215 00:14:41,806.020008 --> 00:14:42,835.43177271 So a hundred percent. 216 00:14:42,835.43177271 --> 00:14:46,570.72589036 Like people say, you know, oh, if you haven't met a person by someone, she never will. 217 00:14:46,717.78471389 --> 00:14:48,70.72589036 There's no rules to that. 218 00:14:48,158.96118447 --> 00:14:48,423.66706683 No. 219 00:14:48,629.54941977 --> 00:14:50,364.84353742 And women are doing things differently. 220 00:14:50,394.25530212 --> 00:14:56,541.31412565 We have more professional women that are building their empires and building their brand before they seek out that. 221 00:14:56,717.78471389 --> 00:14:57,717.78471389 Exactly right. 222 00:14:58,158.96118447 --> 00:15:00,11.90236094 But the PR masterclass. 223 00:15:00,389.35334134 --> 00:15:11,359.94157663 So the engagement was unveiled with an Instagram carousel, five beautiful photographs in a dreamy rose garden, and Swift was in a white sundress from Ralph Lauren. 224 00:15:11,359.94157663 --> 00:15:12,536.41216487 And she looks, which isn't sold out. 225 00:15:12,624.64745898 --> 00:15:13,565.82392957 Yes, I looked at it. 226 00:15:13,565.82392957 --> 00:15:15,536.41216487 Yeah, I tried to find it on the Iconic, absolutely not. 227 00:15:16,320.72589036 --> 00:15:18,320.72589036 More than 35 million likes poured in. 228 00:15:18,791.31412565 --> 00:15:23,85.43177271 And as I said, the ring was a beautiful, brilliant cut, old mine diamond. 229 00:15:23,85.43177271 --> 00:15:28,703.07883153 So what that means is the diamond is hundreds of years old and was ethically sourced like hundreds of years ago. 230 00:15:28,703.07883153 --> 00:15:31,261.90236094 So there's no blood diamond or conflict diamond risk there. 231 00:15:31,644.25530212 --> 00:15:32,26.6082433 Okay. 232 00:15:32,26.6082433 --> 00:15:34,614.84353742 What does brilliant cut mean? I'm new to these cuts. 233 00:15:34,673.66706683 --> 00:15:39,722.68667467 It's the way that it's shaved down to get the more maximum reflection of the sun. 234 00:15:40,252.09843938 --> 00:15:41,546.21608643 Oh, you are kidding? Mm. 235 00:15:41,781.51020408 --> 00:15:42,457.98079232 I love that. 236 00:15:43,457.98079232 --> 00:15:44,869.7454982 It is very classic Taylor, though. 237 00:15:44,899.15726291 --> 00:15:47,399.15726291 Every piece moves the narrative and yeah, it's very on. 238 00:15:47,457.98079232 --> 00:15:48,487.39255702 And the whole thing was on brand. 239 00:15:48,487.39255702 --> 00:15:53,487.39255702 You know, the rose garden, the sold out dress, the custom ring is very intimate. 240 00:15:53,693.27490996 --> 00:15:53,722.68667467 Mm. 241 00:15:54,399.15726291 --> 00:15:55,977.58863545 But it started a trend. 242 00:15:56,65.82392957 --> 00:16:08,894.25530212 Do you know what I mean? And this also feels like a graduation moment for Taylor Swift because we've seen, as you mentioned, the different phases of her life, the being in love, the falling out of love, the recovering the growth. 243 00:16:09,306.020008 --> 00:16:13,306.020008 And now she's graduated and I think she's, her music's gonna graduate as well. 244 00:16:13,306.020008 --> 00:16:14,11.90236094 She has a new album. 245 00:16:14,982.49059624 --> 00:16:16,158.96118447 It'll be all of them coming out. 246 00:16:16,158.96118447 --> 00:16:16,453.07883153 Yeah. 247 00:16:16,511.90236094 --> 00:16:20,864.84353741 The areas of the showgirl, which I'm so excited for and. 248 00:16:21,467.78471389 --> 00:16:22,379.54941977 Some coverage. 249 00:16:22,379.54941977 --> 00:16:27,879.54941977 Does though frame her engagement like a box finally ticked though? Yeah, as we spoke to before. 250 00:16:28,173.66706683 --> 00:16:28,938.37294918 It's Taylor Swift. 251 00:16:28,938.37294918 --> 00:16:31,908.96118447 Her value is not anywhere tied to marriage yet. 252 00:16:31,908.96118447 --> 00:16:36,497.19647859 People are like, she's finally engaged and it's like, no, like it's tied to her worth. 253 00:16:36,526.6082433 --> 00:16:37,379.54941977 That's what I hate. 254 00:16:37,585.43177271 --> 00:16:47,467.7847139 Are we saying, oh, that billionaire man is finally engaged? No, but they never, this is the thing is I'm not seeing like Travis Kelsey is finally engaged. 255 00:16:47,467.7847139 --> 00:16:52,330.5298119 None of that, you know, no one ever cares about that 50-year-old single man getting married. 256 00:16:52,384.4513806 --> 00:16:57,502.0984394 We need to make sure that we avoid referring to this as like a magic, a marriage plot in her life. 257 00:16:57,502.0984394 --> 00:16:58,384.4513806 It absolutely isn't. 258 00:16:58,384.4513806 --> 00:17:02,325.6278511 She didn't expire at 30 and it's just love on her own terms. 259 00:17:02,413.8631453 --> 00:17:06,60.9219688 Yes, and it's that proof that you do not expire at 30, as you said. 260 00:17:06,60.9219688 --> 00:17:10,766.8043217 But what it ultimately shows is that. 261 00:17:11,766.8043217 --> 00:17:18,698.1768707 Which I dunno if I like or don't like, but I guess, just from certain views it's like, okay, there is no rush. 262 00:17:18,698.1768707 --> 00:17:22,168.765106 You know, I can, I'm single at 34, for instance. 263 00:17:22,698.1768707 --> 00:17:24,203.0788315 Taylor's found someone at 35. 264 00:17:25,203.0788315 --> 00:17:37,732.4905962 But I also I see the beauty in that for people who maybe are single going, yay, like this is a good news story, but then I don't like the idea of people being limited to if you don't find that, like you are worth nothing. 265 00:17:38,26.6082433 --> 00:17:40,732.4905962 Yeah, no, I totally, totally told between both of those. 266 00:17:41,350.1376551 --> 00:17:42,261.9023609 No, a hundred percent. 267 00:17:42,605.0396158 --> 00:17:48,575.6278511 And the subtext is frustrating because and this is what I worry about 'cause she's so successful on her own. 268 00:17:48,575.6278511 --> 00:17:50,575.6278511 What is the narrative gonna be now it'll be. 269 00:17:51,575.6278511 --> 00:18:04,428.5690276 Like I, I don't know, like will the media's interest in her change now? Will the media aggression be so strong once she's married and potentially has a family? 'cause she's gonna enter a new era. 270 00:18:04,428.5690276 --> 00:18:06,16.8043217 She won't be touring as much. 271 00:18:06,428.5690276 --> 00:18:08,163.8631453 She's in a different phase of her life. 272 00:18:08,163.8631453 --> 00:18:09,428.5690276 Her music will change. 273 00:18:09,752.0984394 --> 00:18:20,266.8043217 But I also wonder, gab, what would be the business side of things? She's a billion dollar woman, like the prenup would be one of the most watertight negotiated in history. 274 00:18:20,678.5690276 --> 00:18:21,590.3337335 Oh, it definitely would be. 275 00:18:21,678.5690276 --> 00:18:25,325.6278511 I would say it's probably got more at stake than like Jeff Bezos's. 276 00:18:25,796.2160864 --> 00:18:28,492.2945178 And do you know what I'm not against the prenup. 277 00:18:28,492.2945178 --> 00:18:30,727.5886355 I don't think it needs to destroy romance. 278 00:18:30,727.5886355 --> 00:18:31,109.9415766 I think. 279 00:18:31,737.392557 --> 00:18:36,801.1180472 When you are, especially when you've got so much worth like this, it's just being smart about it. 280 00:18:37,7.0004002 --> 00:18:38,889.3533413 It's just getting ahead a hundred percent. 281 00:18:39,242.2945178 --> 00:18:44,65.8239296 In Australia, prenups are called finding financial agreements and they set out what happens. 282 00:18:44,134.4513806 --> 00:18:53,688.3729492 If the relationship was to dissolve where assets would be potentially required to be divided between the. 283 00:18:54,688.3729492 --> 00:18:55,894.2553021 Impacted parties. 284 00:18:56,247.1964786 --> 00:18:59,462.8827531 Is it actually binding in Australia though? I've heard both. 285 00:18:59,462.8827531 --> 00:19:08,776.6082433 I've heard that it, it can't really do anything or No, they are, they are executable, but I think it depends on when they are, like they expire quite easily. 286 00:19:08,894.2553021 --> 00:19:09,158.9611845 Right. 287 00:19:09,158.9611845 --> 00:19:11,477.5886355 And they also can become invalid with different life changes. 288 00:19:11,507.0004002 --> 00:19:13,423.6670668 Like if you have a binding financial agreement. 289 00:19:13,982.4905962 --> 00:19:18,776.6082433 With certain terms, but then you say one has children and has to leave the workforce for a couple of years. 290 00:19:18,864.8435374 --> 00:19:19,158.9611845 Okay. 291 00:19:19,158.9611845 --> 00:19:19,673.6670668 That would change things. 292 00:19:19,673.6670668 --> 00:19:24,835.4317727 That changes the terms because that person, if they were to separate, might now be worse off. 293 00:19:25,70.7258904 --> 00:19:25,423.6670668 Yes. 294 00:19:25,423.6670668 --> 00:19:26,129.5494198 I see what you mean. 295 00:19:27,129.5494198 --> 00:19:38,771.7062825 The other thing I wanted to touch on with this is that Travis Kelsey, I guess what he stands for, because I always think, I think about this, the timeliness of this, which. 296 00:19:39,315.8239296 --> 00:19:44,21.7062825 I don't know if you've seen, but do you follow Abby Chatfield? Yes. 297 00:19:44,149.1572629 --> 00:19:46,634.4513806 And how her partner Kelly Holiday. 298 00:19:47,462.8827531 --> 00:19:51,149.1572629 Who's in Peaking Dark released a song about her the week before. 299 00:19:51,149.1572629 --> 00:20:02,472.6866747 And so I feel like that coupled with this Taylor Swift's news, really what's trending are these type of men who aren't playing games, who are all in, they're not threatened by, a woman's success. 300 00:20:02,845.2356943 --> 00:20:04,257.0004002 And it's kind of really adoring. 301 00:20:04,257.0004002 --> 00:20:04,786.4121649 I love it. 302 00:20:04,786.4121649 --> 00:20:05,933.4709884 There's so many green flags. 303 00:20:05,962.8827531 --> 00:20:06,227.5886355 Yes. 304 00:20:06,227.5886355 --> 00:20:07,933.4709884 And they're wearing their hearts on their sleeves, so I think. 305 00:20:08,595.2356943 --> 00:20:15,526.6082433 I do like this whole trend element of, the boy that plays games, you know, the, the John Mayers of the world are not trending anymore. 306 00:20:15,791.3141257 --> 00:20:16,379.5494198 Yes. 307 00:20:16,379.5494198 --> 00:20:16,997.1964786 I love that. 308 00:20:18,458.2160864 --> 00:20:18,791.5494198 So gap. 309 00:20:19,590.5690276 --> 00:20:24,208.2160864 Iceland offers routine prenatal screening to roughly 85% of pregnant women. 310 00:20:24,590.5690276 --> 00:20:32,531.7454982 And if the test confirms that the baby has a genetic abnormality like Down syndrome, close to a hundred percent of those pregnancies are terminated. 311 00:20:33,119.9807923 --> 00:20:39,443.5102041 And what is the result? Less than three babies are born with Down syndrome in the entire country each year. 312 00:20:40,31.7454982 --> 00:20:48,546.4513806 Is this parental choice or is it just something more complex or cultural? Well, as that model plays out across the world, the questions only get harder, really. 313 00:20:48,634.6866747 --> 00:20:53,267.0396158 Who decides whose life is worth bringing into this world? Yeah, a hundred percent. 314 00:20:53,472.9219688 --> 00:20:55,737.6278511 So 85% of prenatal screening. 315 00:20:55,767.0396158 --> 00:20:57,296.4513806 That's a very high number. 316 00:20:57,296.4513806 --> 00:20:59,972.9219688 That's very high, isn't it? What is it here? I dunno what it is here. 317 00:21:00,90.5690276 --> 00:21:12,31.7454982 What? No, nearly So I think the key issue here is, is we have a very high uptake in prenatal screening, but I think the actions that ha occur off the bat of that screening are probably where the percentage uptake increases. 318 00:21:12,384.6866747 --> 00:21:12,531.7454982 Gotcha. 319 00:21:12,531.7454982 --> 00:21:19,855.27491 Since it's become normal, you do see a very it, the numbers of babies that are being born with those genetic abnormalities. 320 00:21:19,884.6866747 --> 00:21:19,914.0984394 Mm. 321 00:21:20,472.9219688 --> 00:21:25,178.8043217 Have decreased, but not to the same degree of those in the scandy countries. 322 00:21:25,825.4709884 --> 00:21:30,149.0004002 And termination rate is near universal for positive results. 323 00:21:30,266.647459 --> 00:21:31,354.8827531 That's quite high. 324 00:21:31,384.2945178 --> 00:21:35,972.5298119 And it isn't it, but also it's a highly personal choice. 325 00:21:36,70.5690276 --> 00:21:37,70.5690276 It really is. 326 00:21:37,99.9807923 --> 00:21:39,923.5102041 And it, I can imagine it would be such a hard choice. 327 00:21:40,70.5690276 --> 00:21:40,511.7454982 Yeah. 328 00:21:40,923.5102041 --> 00:21:43,70.5690276 Supporters say it's about informed, empowered choice. 329 00:21:43,820.5690276 --> 00:21:48,555.8631453 Critics say that it's normalizing the elimination of a disability., 330 00:21:48,918.6082433 --> 00:21:56,26.4513806 Are we creating eugenics or a perfect society, not respecting the beauty of those that provide different perspectives from disability. 331 00:21:56,85.27491 --> 00:21:57,644.0984394 It's reminding me of that. 332 00:21:57,761.7454982 --> 00:22:01,805.8631453 Did you ever watch the film Gatica? Yes, we studied it in high school. 333 00:22:01,864.6866747 --> 00:22:02,599.9807923 So did I. 334 00:22:02,658.8043217 --> 00:22:03,570.5690276 So did I. 335 00:22:03,570.5690276 --> 00:22:04,864.6866747 And it's reminding me of this. 336 00:22:04,864.6866747 --> 00:22:13,894.0984394 And they really chose everything about the genetics of the children, and it's just crazy now, however many years later that this is happening in real life. 337 00:22:14,11.7454982 --> 00:22:14,423.5102041 Yeah. 338 00:22:15,394.0984394 --> 00:22:16,276.4513806 The feminist lens. 339 00:22:16,541.1572629 --> 00:22:16,599.9807923 Yeah. 340 00:22:17,305.8631453 --> 00:22:23,570.5690276 Often the caregiving where there is a disabled child, it falls heavily on mothers with immense emotional and moral weight. 341 00:22:23,629.392557 --> 00:22:24,217.6278511 That's true. 342 00:22:24,217.6278511 --> 00:22:31,276.4513806 And so the so-called choice quickly turns into another, an emotional labor task for women to carry. 343 00:22:31,599.9807923 --> 00:22:40,913.7062825 So it's ultimately knowing that that's going to happen, regardless of whether they terminate or not. 344 00:22:41,60.765106 --> 00:22:44,737.2356943 I think statistically it's women who are more affected by that. 345 00:22:44,776.4513806 --> 00:22:45,99.9807923 Yeah. 346 00:22:45,99.9807923 --> 00:22:56,658.8043217 I wonder what's driving the fact that it's a higher termination rate in Iceland compared to Australia, and I wonder if it's the way that the medical support or the medical information is presented. 347 00:22:57,41.1572629 --> 00:22:57,364.6866747 Yeah. 348 00:22:57,364.6866747 --> 00:23:05,805.8631453 Perhaps it is about that because maybe there is a lack of care or, yeah, it, it sort of, is it, is it a more rational conversation maybe. 349 00:23:06,805.8631453 --> 00:23:13,364.6866747 In Australia, New Zealand screening is available, but it's not as coercively presented yet. 350 00:23:13,364.6866747 --> 00:23:26,629.392557 Women report feeling nudged towards certain outcomes, and as testing becomes cheaper and broader, the issue only becomes more urgent really, because with there's gonna be more people put in these situations where they can make these decisions. 351 00:23:26,688.2160864 --> 00:23:30,541.1572629 Yeah, and I think it's only a decision you can make when you are the one that's put in the hot seat. 352 00:23:31,70.5690276 --> 00:23:38,335.27491 Oh, I know, but when I see a stat like Iceland Seas only two to three children with Down syndrome born every year. 353 00:23:38,805.8631453 --> 00:23:41,894.0984394 I can't have but think like the lack of representation as well. 354 00:23:41,894.0984394 --> 00:23:48,982.3337335 So imagine, I don't know, someone with down, you know, not seeing or not being around anyone quite like you ever because of. 355 00:23:49,291.1572629 --> 00:23:51,320.5690276 These deliberate decisions, I don't know. 356 00:23:51,497.0396158 --> 00:23:58,908.8043217 But there's also many genetic disorders that have been removed where the child might not be viable with life or has a really, that's true. 357 00:23:58,908.8043217 --> 00:24:00,173.5102041 Really hard. 358 00:24:00,349.9807923 --> 00:24:03,614.6866747 And having a child that's not compatible with life, that is heartbreaking. 359 00:24:03,791.1572629 --> 00:24:04,644.0984394 Oh, of course. 360 00:24:04,644.0984394 --> 00:24:08,291.1572629 You want your child to have the highest quality of life that you can give them. 361 00:24:08,467.6278511 --> 00:24:08,820.5690276 Yeah. 362 00:24:09,433.3141257 --> 00:24:14,173.5102041 So it, it is a really tough one, but I think ultimately it comes up to women's choice. 363 00:24:14,438.2160864 --> 00:24:16,673.5102041 But I do think it's very positive that. 364 00:24:17,570.5690276 --> 00:24:22,188.2160864 In Iceland, they take so much effort to ensure that women have all the medical information Yeah. 365 00:24:22,188.2160864 --> 00:24:23,629.392557 About their circumstances. 366 00:24:24,11.7454982 --> 00:24:27,864.6866747 And by all accounts, it sounds like they're making an informed medical decision. 367 00:24:28,864.6866747 --> 00:24:29,541.1572629 Yeah, it does. 368 00:24:29,541.1572629 --> 00:24:29,952.9219688 It does. 369 00:24:29,952.9219688 --> 00:24:32,394.0984394 It sounds like the support is there from that perspective. 370 00:24:32,399.0004002 --> 00:24:32,683.3141257 Mm-hmm. 371 00:24:34,595.3141257 --> 00:24:39,330.6082433 So, Claire, you know how in Australia we get raised on slip flop, slap. 372 00:24:40,286.4905962 --> 00:24:44,845.3141257 Sunscreen isn't optional here on, I don't remember a time where sunscreen was optional. 373 00:24:44,845.3141257 --> 00:24:54,551.1964786 Here it is essentially a national religion and for a lot of us, we've been brought up to the idea that premium brands are giving us the gold standard a hundred percent. 374 00:24:54,610.020008 --> 00:24:56,874.7258904 Like you can use your banana boats. 375 00:24:57,374.7258904 --> 00:24:59,257.0788315 And that'll roughly do the job. 376 00:24:59,462.9611845 --> 00:25:11,874.7258904 But if you want to look amazing and you want your skin to look incredible, you know, as you age, you need to be using the premium, you know, the ultraviolet, the expensive stuff from Mecca to get the best results that is drilled into us. 377 00:25:12,565.9023609 --> 00:25:16,830.6082433 It is drilled into us and, and we pay that premium because our skin is important to us. 378 00:25:16,860.020008 --> 00:25:17,124.7258904 Yeah. 379 00:25:17,154.1376551 --> 00:25:22,330.6082433 50 bucks on a tiny bottle of SBF because it's worth it and it protects us from aging. 380 00:25:22,536.4905962 --> 00:25:24,124.7258904 It's a non-negotiable in the beauty routine. 381 00:25:24,124.7258904 --> 00:25:27,771.7847139 Like every morning you put on your serum, you put on your moisturizer, you put on your sunscreen. 382 00:25:27,771.7847139 --> 00:25:36,477.6670668 I know I did it this morning and turns out at least one of the ultraviolet products has been doing basically nothing. 383 00:25:36,771.7847139 --> 00:25:37,65.9023609 Yeah. 384 00:25:37,65.9023609 --> 00:25:41,448.2553021 So turns out that this product, which I'm laughing, but it's actually not funny. 385 00:25:42,139.4317727 --> 00:25:45,286.4905962 Is a glor was actually glorified tinted moisturizer. 386 00:25:46,286.4905962 --> 00:25:52,345.3141257 One thing we will clarify though, is they did a number of tests and the product was very unstable in that test. 387 00:25:52,345.3141257 --> 00:25:52,433.5494198 Yes. 388 00:25:52,433.5494198 --> 00:26:01,193.3533413 So some products might, you know, you might've gotten lucky with the batch and it would've done something, but others did have a batch that was a glorified sunscreen, glorified tinted moisturizer, as you said. 389 00:26:01,193.3533413 --> 00:26:01,271.7847139 Yes. 390 00:26:02,271.7847139 --> 00:26:09,65.9023609 This was off the back of Choice testing 20 popular sunscreens earlier this year, and only four met their SPF 50 claim. 391 00:26:09,95.3141257 --> 00:26:10,65.9023609 16 failed. 392 00:26:10,212.9611845 --> 00:26:10,624.7258904 That's so bad. 393 00:26:10,624.7258904 --> 00:26:11,742.3729492 16 failed. 394 00:26:11,742.3729492 --> 00:26:12,242.3729492 Yes. 395 00:26:12,595.3141257 --> 00:26:29,105.1180472 And with their testing they did numerous, numerous retesting with different providers just to really make sure that they were correct in their assumptions, purely because their findings would be significant to the brands that did not meet their, meet the testing requirements. 396 00:26:29,105.1180472 --> 00:26:38,291.392557 Do you know what I find funny is that just so choice were, were sure about the testing and you know, they were shocked so they then retested it in at a German lab. 397 00:26:38,379.6278511 --> 00:26:38,467.8631453 Mm-hmm. 398 00:26:38,497.27491 --> 00:26:38,997.27491 I love that. 399 00:26:38,997.27491 --> 00:26:40,820.8043217 It's like, oh, we trust, we trust Germany. 400 00:26:40,820.8043217 --> 00:26:41,791.392557 Let's send it to Germany. 401 00:26:42,85.5102041 --> 00:26:42,438.4513806 Yeah. 402 00:26:42,703.1572629 --> 00:26:52,551.1964786 So the product that fared the worst was the ultraviolet lean screen, SBF 50 mineral sunscreen, and it had an SBF of four, not 40. 403 00:26:53,570.8043217 --> 00:26:54,159.0396158 Four. 404 00:26:54,247.27491 --> 00:26:54,717.8631453 Four. 405 00:26:54,806.0984394 --> 00:26:55,864.9219688 Oh my goodness. 406 00:26:56,70.8043217 --> 00:27:00,600.2160864 For context, SB F 50 should actually test at SBF 60 to get that label. 407 00:27:00,717.8631453 --> 00:27:03,247.27491 So the gap wasn't small, it was like catastrophic. 408 00:27:04,41.392557 --> 00:27:07,364.9219688 So it isn't just Aldi's three $99 sunscreen. 409 00:27:07,394.3337335 --> 00:27:13,129.6278511 This is a $52 premium phase one marketed as a chic high performance option. 410 00:27:13,482.5690276 --> 00:27:13,747.27491 Yeah. 411 00:27:14,747.27491 --> 00:27:25,511.9807923 Ultraviolet was founded by Ava Matthews and Beck, Jeff, and they actually worked at Mecca and they were the brain children behind the, to save face and to save body sunscreen at Mecca. 412 00:27:25,541.392557 --> 00:27:26,953.1572629 And that sunscreen is epic. 413 00:27:26,953.1572629 --> 00:27:30,864.9219688 Like it goes into the skin so well, it dries. 414 00:27:31,159.0396158 --> 00:27:32,806.0984394 It's really good with people's children. 415 00:27:32,806.0984394 --> 00:27:39,208.0592237 Like I remember when I worked at Mecca a long time ago Some kids just don't like the texture and the feeling of sunscreen being put on. 416 00:27:39,296.2945178 --> 00:27:39,472.765106 Mm. 417 00:27:39,502.1768707 --> 00:27:43,708.0592237 There was something about that sunscreen where it went on very non sticky, non-sick, non greasy. 418 00:27:43,708.0592237 --> 00:27:44,237.4709884 That's important. 419 00:27:44,237.4709884 --> 00:27:45,296.2945178 Really dry thing. 420 00:27:45,590.4121649 --> 00:27:47,2.1768707 Dry lasting. 421 00:27:47,855.1180472 --> 00:27:51,296.2945178 So they created their own brand, ultraviolet. 422 00:27:52,75.7062825 --> 00:27:58,546.2945178 And they said their own certified testing, which is required to be provided to get the SB 50 label. 423 00:27:58,575.7062825 --> 00:27:58,840.4121649 Yeah. 424 00:27:58,840.4121649 --> 00:27:59,899.2356943 Had always come back. 425 00:27:59,928.647459 --> 00:28:07,458.0592237 SBF 60 plus they rushed a April retest and that came in at SBF 61.7 426 00:28:07,869.8239296 --> 00:28:17,811.0004002 and they believed that choice mishandled the product and they decanted into class glass jars and that maybe separated the zinc in transit and people kind of went. 427 00:28:18,516.8827531 --> 00:28:19,663.9415766 Surely it doesn't do that. 428 00:28:19,663.9415766 --> 00:28:21,575.7062825 But I, you know, I wouldn't have guessed that sunscreen. 429 00:28:21,575.7062825 --> 00:28:24,840.4121649 Would that be Un would that be on, that would be that unstable. 430 00:28:24,958.0592237 --> 00:28:25,958.0592237 No, but that's what they've said. 431 00:28:26,340.4121649 --> 00:28:32,663.9415766 They've basically said, trust us, not them, but for loyal customers, they probably believed it for a while. 432 00:28:33,105.1180472 --> 00:28:33,458.0592237 Yeah. 433 00:28:33,458.0592237 --> 00:28:43,757.0788315 I think the ultravit like, but also are you believing it because you've been putting it on your face for this past period of time and going, I didn't get, you, you're probably recalling based on your own experience, going, oh, I don't think I've got that bad. 434 00:28:43,811.0004002 --> 00:28:44,752.1768707 I didn't get sunburnt. 435 00:28:44,752.1768707 --> 00:28:45,75.7062825 Yeah. 436 00:28:46,75.7062825 --> 00:28:50,222.765106 The choice test is rigorous accredited labs, ISO standards, double check. 437 00:28:50,222.765106 --> 00:28:54,781.5886355 Protocols and choice do not have a reputation being sloppy in how they test. 438 00:28:55,281.5886355 --> 00:28:59,840.4121649 Now they do No choice, I think is like their reputation's upheld in this. 439 00:29:00,16.8827531 --> 00:29:01,75.7062825 Do you think. 440 00:29:01,722.765106 --> 00:29:06,869.8239296 But how did it pass originally? So Choice is the third party that did the testing to call out. 441 00:29:06,869.8239296 --> 00:29:09,46.2945178 Oh, like the third party testing? Yeah. 442 00:29:09,46.2945178 --> 00:29:18,163.9415766 But they, to originally be able to sell it though it passed some kind of testing it, but using independent testing, wasn't it? But with their providers, I see. 443 00:29:18,163.9415766 --> 00:29:19,663.9415766 Their own providers, yes. 444 00:29:20,546.2945178 --> 00:29:20,722.765106 No. 445 00:29:20,727.6670668 --> 00:29:22,899.2356943 So it's not really a regulated industry by the sounds of it. 446 00:29:22,928.647459 --> 00:29:23,46.2945178 Yeah. 447 00:29:23,114.9219688 --> 00:29:23,703.1572629 Now it will be. 448 00:29:23,761.9807923 --> 00:29:24,85.5102041 Yeah. 449 00:29:24,526.6866747 --> 00:29:26,409.0396158 One thing I am gonna say, and I do respect. 450 00:29:27,261.9807923 --> 00:29:36,791.392557 Since by August, 2025, ultraviolet has done eight more lab tests on the lean screen, and the results were, and they shared this with the public all over the place. 451 00:29:36,791.392557 --> 00:29:44,614.9219688 They had a four, a 10, a 21, a 26, a 33, a 60, a 61, and 64 what on Earth? So three outta eight. 452 00:29:44,644.3337335 --> 00:29:47,51.1964786 That's not good enough for the product to be on the market. 453 00:29:47,820.8043217 --> 00:29:49,144.3337335 Their variability killed it. 454 00:29:49,144.3337335 --> 00:30:02,580.6082433 They announced a voluntary recall, apologizing, refunding, and cutting ties with a third party manufacturer who made lean screen, and their statement was, this wasn't good enough for us and it isn't good enough for you, but here's where it gets worse. 455 00:30:02,815.9023609 --> 00:30:10,21.7847139 Because another product, the evolving ultraviolet sunscreen was put, pulled shortly thereafter as a out of an abundance of caution. 456 00:30:10,786.4905962 --> 00:30:11,639.4317727 This second. 457 00:30:12,7.0788315 --> 00:30:16,565.9023609 Recall of the two products has rattled their customer base because it wasn't one product anymore. 458 00:30:16,595.3141257 --> 00:30:17,536.4905962 It sounds like a pattern. 459 00:30:17,948.2553021 --> 00:30:28,801.1964786 And then that's when people got really angry because the brand has built its whole identity on preaching sunscreen as a salvation present to your skin, anti-aging, anti-cancer. 460 00:30:29,507.0788315 --> 00:30:31,330.6082433 Suddenly their message really flipped. 461 00:30:31,771.7847139 --> 00:30:35,360.020008 And actually you've been diligently slapping on, this cream on your face. 462 00:30:35,360.020008 --> 00:30:36,801.1964786 That's done absolutely nothing. 463 00:30:37,330.6082433 --> 00:30:37,546.2945178 It. 464 00:30:38,110.020008 --> 00:30:40,698.2553021 Really brings customers into dismay. 465 00:30:40,698.2553021 --> 00:30:42,958.0592237 And I don't know if they're gonna come back from this. 466 00:30:43,546.2945178 --> 00:30:44,193.3533413 They were angry. 467 00:30:44,222.765106 --> 00:30:48,693.3533413 I was reading their t like the TikTok threads in response to the video, and it was very earnest. 468 00:30:49,13.3533413 --> 00:30:49,954.5298119 I think the damage is done. 469 00:30:50,189.8239296 --> 00:30:50,925.1180472 I agree. 470 00:30:50,983.9415766 --> 00:30:58,189.8239296 Particularly, you know, the prevalence of skin cancers in this country and just people do know how serious it is. 471 00:30:58,366.2945178 --> 00:31:04,307.4709884 All of the government campaigns, all of the awareness campaigns have really been drilled into us since we were kids. 472 00:31:04,513.3533413 --> 00:31:08,895.7062825 I just, there are, and there are so many other reputable brands out there for sunscreen. 473 00:31:08,895.7062825 --> 00:31:09,42.765106 Yeah. 474 00:31:09,42.765106 --> 00:31:13,660.4121649 That I just think good luck, like it's gonna take a while to build up that trust again. 475 00:31:13,866.2945178 --> 00:31:23,366.2945178 If you had been on, say, your third bottle of the sunscreen and then you found out that it was being recalled, how would you feel? I feel like what a waste of money that's $150 down the drain. 476 00:31:23,366.2945178 --> 00:31:25,425.1180472 I probably got, three melanomas on my body. 477 00:31:26,483.9415766 --> 00:31:28,807.4709884 Pissed off, I'd be scared of the wrinkles. 478 00:31:28,983.9415766 --> 00:31:29,483.9415766 Oh yeah, true. 479 00:31:29,483.9415766 --> 00:31:29,895.7062825 Sorry. 480 00:31:29,910.4121649 --> 00:31:30,542.765106 Of course, of course. 481 00:31:30,601.5886355 --> 00:31:31,13.3533413 Yeah. 482 00:31:31,72.1768707 --> 00:31:34,866.2945178 So some of the customers said, you told me I'd age prematurely if I didn't use sunscreen. 483 00:31:34,866.2945178 --> 00:31:38,307.4709884 Now you're telling me I, I did use it, but it failed. 484 00:31:38,572.1768707 --> 00:31:41,748.647459 Others said, you scared me into this habit and broke my trust. 485 00:31:42,366.2945178 --> 00:31:47,944.7258904 So I guess the questions are, what does this mean for ultraviolet? Will they survive? They probably will. 486 00:31:48,944.7258904 --> 00:31:50,327.0788315 It's really hard because. 487 00:31:50,827.0788315 --> 00:31:53,503.5494198 Sunscreen is a necessity in this country. 488 00:31:53,680.020008 --> 00:31:53,797.6670668 Mm-hmm. 489 00:31:54,32.9611845 --> 00:31:55,209.4317727 Less a luxury. 490 00:31:55,238.8435374 --> 00:32:00,62.3729492 However, where they've positioned themselves in the category is on the luxurious side. 491 00:32:00,62.3729492 --> 00:32:08,32.9611845 So I think it definitely will make consumers think a bit differently around whether paying premium is actually giving 'em a premium product in the sunscreen category. 492 00:32:08,180.020008 --> 00:32:08,415.3141257 Yeah. 493 00:32:08,415.3141257 --> 00:32:16,91.7847139 So you think it will turn customers off the premium price point, or do you think it'll turn customers off them as a brand? Oh, I think there's gonna be a combination of both. 494 00:32:16,91.7847139 --> 00:32:16,591.7847139 I think. 495 00:32:17,518.2553021 --> 00:32:21,165.3141257 Certainly them as a brand won't be trusted, but given that. 496 00:32:21,518.2553021 --> 00:32:38,567.27491 These customers have spent a premium in the past and they've been betrayed almost, that I think that they would be open to looking at a a lower price point now knowing that sort of those banana boats and those everyday brands that have been consistent will actually do the job. 497 00:32:38,827.0788315 --> 00:32:39,238.8435374 Yeah. 498 00:32:39,444.7258904 --> 00:32:42,797.6670668 I also think that regulators will be putting these brands on notice. 499 00:32:42,885.9023609 --> 00:32:43,62.3729492 Yeah. 500 00:32:43,121.1964786 --> 00:32:51,121.1964786 And they might expect additional checks and balances to make sure what they're claiming is true given the damage it can do to people's skin. 501 00:32:51,523.1572629 --> 00:32:51,787.8631453 Yeah. 502 00:32:51,787.8631453 --> 00:33:06,689.8239296 And I think if anything for the category now that there will be more regulation, it's probably a good time for us as consumers because them buttoning down on all the regulations means that only quality product should be coming out onto those shelves for us moving forward. 503 00:33:06,925.1180472 --> 00:33:07,42.765106 Yeah. 504 00:33:08,954.765106 --> 00:33:09,219.4709884 Gab. 505 00:33:09,219.4709884 --> 00:33:10,954.765106 I think that's all we've got time for this week. 506 00:33:10,954.765106 --> 00:33:19,484.1768707 We've covered Afghanistan's, influencer tourism drama, Taylor's engagement, and the business of Love, Iceland's prenatal testing, and the ultraviolet SBF saga. 507 00:33:19,920.4513806 --> 00:33:22,690.0592237 If you enjoyed it, follow the show and leave a quick rating. 508 00:33:22,925.3533413 --> 00:33:25,626.3337335 Then flick out this episode to a friend who loved the debate. 509 00:33:26,528.2945178 --> 00:33:29,293.0004002 Send us your hot takes and what you want us to unpack next week. 510 00:33:29,322.4121649 --> 00:33:30,57.7062825 We'll see you then.