AI Dating Disasters, Hugh Jackman & Deborra-Lee Furness Divorce, Macron’s Slap and Erin Patterson trial update

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
So Claire, I really want to find out what happened after the phone saga last week.
I feel like everyone's over this debacle, but there was something that happened and it was kind of funny.
Tell me.
I had a flood of messages and I realized, 'cause I underpriced this phone anyway, I wanna go on and I just pick someone who's relatively polite.

(00:23):
And he's like, I can be in South Yarra within the hour.
And I'm like, done.
Cash only.
He's like, done.
So we organized the meetup and I send the exact location.
I even send the coordinates on Google Maps.
He said The coordinates.
The coordinates.
I head over there.
I'm early 'cause I wanted to scope out the position.
I wanted to have an optimum position.

(00:44):
Do you know who you're looking for at this point? No.
'cause he didn't have like a real, like he had a weird Facebook photo that he didn't really.
Like a fish or something.
It was like trees.
Okay.
So I didn't know what sky looks like.
I didn't know anything about him other than he wants phone.
He said he'll pay for phone.
He's on his way.
I am sitting there and then I'm getting a bit of a weird sense.

(01:04):
He's late, but they, they're always late.
He's part of the dance.
He, it's part of the dance.
He's on my way.
I'm close.
Then he's saying.
I'm here and he is sending me photos from outside and I'm in a shopping center.
I'm in a public place.
There's lots of people and he wants you to come outside it nighttime.
At it's nighttime, okay.
Saturday night.
And he's keeps sending me photos of like different places from outside.

(01:28):
I'm like, come into the shopping center and I send him photos.
I'm sitting in like a group of seats and he keeps sending me photos from outside.
I'm not coming outside.
This is a public safety.
It's strange.
And I am texting our mutual friend and she's like, just leave.
This is weird.
There's an man sitting there reading the newspaper and he's, yeah.
And I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna let him know.
I'm gonna say, Hey, I am selling a phone.
I don't know who I'm meeting.

(01:49):
It's a man.
If I scream, call the police? And he is yeah.
He's coming now.
And I'm like, yeah, yeah.
He's, he's here.
He's just attempting to find me.
He's okay.
So he just keeps sending me photos from outside and I'm like, I am not coming outside.
How, how much time has gone past this? Point? Point? This is like 10 minutes.
Oh, wow.
I have got like more than five photos I'll send you.

(02:10):
Oh, actually, I'll send you the photos and you put love to see, see if you can put them on Instagram.
Yeah.
The story.
Yeah.
I am not coming outside.
Anyway, he finally we're coming in, I look up and I see this old Vietnamese man, he's on a walking frame.
Oh no.
He's waving at me with his equally aged wife, and they're like trotting along beside me.

(02:32):
He's like, I need to sit down, and you sit down and I'm like.
Oh my god.
And this is your guy? This is my guy, Claire.
So he sits down, he is looking at the phone and you show you're going to hell.
I'm so going to hell.
I've made this poor guy come out in the cold and walk he sits down, he's looking at the phone and he's showing me, he's very broken, very old phone.

(02:52):
And he's like, upgrade.
Upgrade.
He doesn't really speak much English at this point.
Oh, so there was also the translation of it all as well? Yeah, there was this translation issue.
Oh, wow.
And I'm trying to communicate with him that the phone is broken, the camera's broken, you'll need to get that fixed.
And he is you do it.
And I'm like, no, I don't fix it.
Oh.
And I'm now, I'm using chat GPT to translate to this guy to say, you don't wanna buy this phone, you need to get it fixed.

(03:13):
And he's it works.
And I'm like, it, it doesn't work.
Oh, so then it's like this thing of him being like me being like, no, no, no, I'm not selling you this phone.
'cause you need to get it fixed.
The people wanting to buy this thing and normally gonna, take it, fix it, and resell it for more money.
So what happened? Finally, his wife clocked it and was just like, we don't buy the phone.
I'm like, no, you don't buy the phone.
And then they walked, they hobbled it away.

(03:35):
They hobbled away back into the cold.
I did send them some links of refurbed.
That's lovely.
iPhones on Kogan that I thought would be a good fit for them.
And then what happened to your bodyguard? The guy that was reading the newspaper? Well, he was very interested, but the moment he saw the guy with the walker, he just got up and walked away.

(03:55):
.99999936Oh, that is too funny. 98 00:03:57,573.33333333 --> 00:04:03,303.33333333 Coming up this week on spin Cycle, we're exploring how artificial intelligence is reshaping our relationships. 99 00:04:03,453.33333333 --> 00:04:11,233.33333333 The latest developments in the Hugh Jackman and Debra Lee Furnace divorce, the Macron Slap and its fallout and unpacking the perils of digital voyeurism. 100 00:04:11,533.33333333 --> 00:04:15,283.33333333 And finally, of course, we have the latest edition of Death Cap Diaries. 101 00:04:35,390.29679787 --> 00:04:41,360.29679787 Welcome to Spin Cycle, where we dig into the stories shaping the world and take a closer look at the patterns, power plays. 102 00:04:41,360.29679787 --> 00:04:49,70.29679787 And yes, the biases hiding in plain sight where Gab and Claire, two friends with MBAs, A lot of opinions and a healthy amount of skepticism. 103 00:04:49,370.29679787 --> 00:04:52,370.29679787 We are here to help you think twice and maybe have a few laughs. 104 00:04:52,670.29679787 --> 00:04:53,525.29679787 Let's get spinning. 105 00:04:53,914.50789664 --> 00:04:54,186.39405661 Yeah. 106 00:04:54,276.39405661 --> 00:04:57,726.39405661 What's top of mind for you this week? Do not laugh at me. 107 00:04:58,206.39405661 --> 00:05:06,196.39405661 My thing this week is very simple but so impactful I have rejuvenated my pantry. 108 00:05:06,576.39405661 --> 00:05:07,506.39405661 Mm. 109 00:05:07,536.39405661 --> 00:05:08,316.39405661 Gone through it. 110 00:05:08,376.39405661 --> 00:05:10,206.39405661 Mind you, I'll get in trouble if I don't say this. 111 00:05:10,296.39405661 --> 00:05:11,346.39405661 Corey's helped me do this. 112 00:05:11,346.39405661 --> 00:05:16,806.39405661 My pantry's just been dumping ground and literally took everything outta the cupboards. 113 00:05:16,836.39405661 --> 00:05:19,546.39405661 Reorganized, got storage containers. 114 00:05:20,746.39405661 --> 00:05:24,376.39405661 I'm not gonna lie, but I feel like my home is peaceful now. 115 00:05:24,706.39405661 --> 00:05:26,746.39405661 I feel my brain is clear. 116 00:05:26,796.39405661 --> 00:05:28,176.39405661 I've turned a new leaf. 117 00:05:28,536.39405661 --> 00:05:30,966.39405661 It is like I'm starting on a new journey. 118 00:05:30,966.39405661 --> 00:05:33,246.39405661 I don't wanna breadcrumb, but, and we can't talk about it yet. 119 00:05:33,246.39405661 --> 00:05:34,536.39405661 But you have some changes coming. 120 00:05:34,626.39405661 --> 00:05:35,106.39405661 I do. 121 00:05:35,106.39405661 --> 00:05:37,886.39405661 And so this is just all part of it, and so it's exciting. 122 00:05:37,886.39405661 --> 00:05:38,486.39405661 I feel. 123 00:05:39,36.39405661 --> 00:05:41,286.39405661 Clean plate, clean slate. 124 00:05:42,226.39405661 --> 00:05:45,421.39405661 I'm a poet now, but it's just, I feel great. 125 00:05:45,661.39405661 --> 00:05:46,261.39405661 I feel really good. 126 00:05:46,501.39405661 --> 00:05:47,11.39405661 Amazing. 127 00:05:47,11.39405661 --> 00:05:47,641.39405661 I love that. 128 00:05:47,851.39405661 --> 00:05:54,346.39405661 And what about you? What's on your mind? I just finished the last episode of the Handmaid's Tale series on Tuesday. 129 00:05:54,646.39405661 --> 00:05:57,916.39405661 I am unfortunately quite behind and I need to catch up. 130 00:05:57,966.39405661 --> 00:06:05,276.39405661 Don't spoil too much for me, what are your thoughts? How did it land with you? Okay, so I am a diehard Handmaid's Tale fan. 131 00:06:05,276.39405661 --> 00:06:07,946.39405661 I have stand through the six seasons. 132 00:06:08,6.39405661 --> 00:06:09,476.39405661 I've waded through the delays. 133 00:06:09,716.39405661 --> 00:06:12,326.39405661 I participate in the Handmaid's Tale Reddit forum I am. 134 00:06:12,386.39405661 --> 00:06:12,806.39405661 I'm deep. 135 00:06:13,198.06072327 --> 00:06:17,690.65933919 I would say that episode nine was sensational. 136 00:06:18,50.65933919 --> 00:06:20,720.65933919 Is that the last episode? It was the second last, ooh. 137 00:06:20,770.65933919 --> 00:06:28,580.65933919 Then episode 10 came and I had very high expectations and it just didn't quite hit the expectations. 138 00:06:28,880.65933919 --> 00:06:36,20.65933919 But they had a challenge, which is that they are doing the Testaments, which is the spinoff series, which is. 139 00:06:36,920.65933919 --> 00:06:41,660.65933919 Is that pre post oh, the Margaret Atwood book is 15 years in the future. 140 00:06:42,320.65933919 --> 00:06:42,650.65933919 Yes. 141 00:06:42,650.65933919 --> 00:06:57,687.99267189 However, what Elizabeth Moss, who's executive producing it has said is that it's gonna kick off pretty much straight after, so they can't do too much with the epilogue that they could typically do with a series where this is your last time with those characters, You're right, it's the farewell of these characters. 142 00:06:57,687.99267189 --> 00:06:57,747.99267189 Yeah. 143 00:06:57,747.99267189 --> 00:07:02,337.99267189 And there was some beautiful farewells, like there was a few surprises that they actually kept under wraps. 144 00:07:02,637.99267189 --> 00:07:13,682.99267189 So there was an episode where there's gonna be reunions, isn't there? There was certain scenes that they filmed in secrecy, and they filmed a bunch of other scenes so that no one really knew what was gonna happen in that final episode. 145 00:07:14,502.99267189 --> 00:07:18,132.99267189 So I would say that it, didn't quite wrap things up in a beautiful bow. 146 00:07:18,222.99267189 --> 00:07:18,612.99267189 Okay. 147 00:07:18,612.99267189 --> 00:07:21,12.99267189 That I would've loved it to have done so. 148 00:07:21,552.99267189 --> 00:07:30,922.99267189 Was it an emotional journey? Were there tears? What kind of feeling were you left with at the end of the episode? Is it anger? Is it triumph? We could have had 30 more minutes. 149 00:07:30,952.99267189 --> 00:07:32,632.99267189 There is just so much more you could have done. 150 00:07:32,632.99267189 --> 00:07:36,192.99267189 But I think it's 'cause of the testaments and we think about some of the characters journeys. 151 00:07:36,312.99267189 --> 00:07:36,552.99267189 Yeah. 152 00:07:37,92.99267189 --> 00:07:40,602.99267189 It's expected that June is not gonna be in the Testaments Yeah. 153 00:07:40,682.99267189 --> 00:07:44,192.99267189 And then there's certain characters like, yvan Trotsky's character, Serena. 154 00:07:44,807.99267189 --> 00:07:51,737.99267189 Even though it's not in the testaments, I think they're can try and somehow get it in there just because her character is just so well adored by the fans. 155 00:07:52,277.99267189 --> 00:07:57,557.99267189 They'll probably do, and I dunno, I've not read the book, but you know how there's some shows just to get people in. 156 00:07:57,587.99267189 --> 00:08:00,797.99267189 They have one of the main characters in the first episode, then they kill 'em off or something. 157 00:08:01,157.99267189 --> 00:08:03,672.99267189 But then it's a great transition Yes, yes. 158 00:08:03,972.99267189 --> 00:08:05,862.99267189 To the new, to bring generation. 159 00:08:05,922.99267189 --> 00:08:06,282.99267189 Yeah. 160 00:08:06,282.99267189 --> 00:08:11,442.99267189 So really keen to see what they're gonna do there, but highly recommend it because if you have not watched The Handmaid's Tale. 161 00:08:11,707.99267189 --> 00:08:13,237.99267189 You have six seasons of content to watch. 162 00:08:13,237.99267189 --> 00:08:15,247.99267189 How good is that? And perfect, because it's winter. 163 00:08:16,339.99267189 --> 00:08:21,169.99267189 Alright Claire, let's kick this off with the real third wheel in every relationship at the moment. 164 00:08:21,169.99267189 --> 00:08:22,39.99267189 And that's ai. 165 00:08:22,129.99267189 --> 00:08:28,489.99267189 Honestly, if chat GPT had a Tinder profile, I honestly think people would swipe right just to avoid the small talk. 166 00:08:28,669.99267189 --> 00:08:30,169.99267189 It's actually the worst. 167 00:08:30,169.99267189 --> 00:08:34,789.99267189 And apps would designed to make us love, find love faster. 168 00:08:35,179.99267189 --> 00:08:40,519.99267189 And now people are dating a perfectly engineered human and it's not the same. 169 00:08:41,929.99267189 --> 00:08:50,459.99267189 I had a friend who found out that her hinge match used chat, GBT to write every single message, including the part where he loved hiking in dogs. 170 00:08:51,59.99267189 --> 00:08:57,719.99267189 He was just basically taking her messages, putting them in chat, GBT, and then it was creating an echo chamber back to her. 171 00:08:59,39.99267189 --> 00:09:00,29.99267189 So she was catfished. 172 00:09:00,59.99267189 --> 00:09:01,829.99267189 I'm sure so many people are now. 173 00:09:02,129.99267189 --> 00:09:05,389.99267189 And this is where Simon Cynics hot take comes in. 174 00:09:05,439.99267189 --> 00:09:12,369.99267189 In the last week, he has released a video which talks about outsourcing the human part, relationships to tech. 175 00:09:12,609.99267189 --> 00:09:14,919.99267189 According to him, AI can't love. 176 00:09:15,164.99267189 --> 00:09:20,834.99267189 It can't empathize and it definitely can't handle that awkward silencing or the third date. 177 00:09:21,854.99267189 --> 00:09:34,844.99267189 It's creating the ideal output, and I think the problem with that is it's forgetting the fact that we are humans and that's what makes us compatible with other humans. 178 00:09:35,589.99267189 --> 00:09:41,439.99267189 Exactly, and I, and it's helping people navigate through conversation that's always smooth. 179 00:09:41,499.99267189 --> 00:09:42,789.99267189 There's never conflict. 180 00:09:43,239.99267189 --> 00:09:46,749.99267189 And without that sort of friction, you don't really get to know someone. 181 00:09:46,749.99267189 --> 00:09:48,399.99267189 You don't really learn about them. 182 00:09:48,399.99267189 --> 00:09:57,169.99267189 It's almost talking about the weather, very light touch Do you know what it reminds me of? Gab? You know that episode of Black Mirror with the social scoring? Yes. 183 00:09:57,169.99267189 --> 00:09:59,539.99267189 How you just tell people what they wanna hear? Yes. 184 00:09:59,539.99267189 --> 00:10:00,949.99267189 And it's basically confirmation bias. 185 00:10:00,979.99267189 --> 00:10:01,669.99267189 It's like. 186 00:10:01,859.99267189 --> 00:10:04,979.99267189 Everyone is a living, breathing LinkedIn post. 187 00:10:05,489.99267189 --> 00:10:06,779.99267189 Yeah, because it's all about image. 188 00:10:06,784.99267189 --> 00:10:08,129.99267189 It's sunshine, it's the image. 189 00:10:08,129.99267189 --> 00:10:09,29.99267189 It's performative. 190 00:10:09,59.99267189 --> 00:10:23,259.99267189 It's performative because you're say taking conflict, you're taking an issue and you're putting it in chat, GBT, and you're asking them to create the shiny perfect, PR pub polished image that people idealistically wanna portray about themselves, exactly. 191 00:10:23,259.99267189 --> 00:10:24,819.99267189 And this is also the algorithm. 192 00:10:24,819.99267189 --> 00:10:33,969.99267189 So the more that you probably swipe on the same type of person, the more that person's gonna be shown this is a very old reference, but it's like the Truman show. 193 00:10:34,19.99267189 --> 00:10:39,659.99267189 That's a really good point because they are algorithms and if everyone's creating their profile generated from. 194 00:10:40,49.99267189 --> 00:10:47,429.99267189 AI and people aren't bringing the niche and the interesting about them, there's nothing for the algorithm to differentiate. 195 00:10:47,729.99267189 --> 00:10:52,209.99267189 So you're never gonna get, matches anymore that are algorithmically ideal. 196 00:10:52,259.99267189 --> 00:10:53,99.99267189 Exactly. 197 00:10:53,339.99267189 --> 00:10:55,949.99267189 And back to cynic in the video that I referenced. 198 00:10:56,759.99267189 --> 00:11:01,199.99267189 He also points out that we've gotten into this point of this frictionless experience. 199 00:11:01,199.99267189 --> 00:11:07,19.99267189 I touched on it before, but basically with chat t or ai, you're able to skip the fight. 200 00:11:07,259.99267189 --> 00:11:07,289.99267189 Mm. 201 00:11:07,289.99267189 --> 00:11:15,559.99267189 Skip the awkward conversations, skip any kind of vulnerability, but real relationships rely on that real authentic connection. 202 00:11:15,739.99267189 --> 00:11:16,189.99267189 Yes. 203 00:11:16,369.99267189 --> 00:11:18,79.99267189 Actually, this is, there's a story that I. 204 00:11:18,829.99267189 --> 00:11:19,909.99267189 Reminds me of this. 205 00:11:20,329.99267189 --> 00:11:23,809.99267189 I was hiring someone and it was right when chat JPT was coming out. 206 00:11:23,809.99267189 --> 00:11:29,209.99267189 I'd only been out for a few months and some people, you know, had the pro version, but it was still emerging. 207 00:11:29,209.99267189 --> 00:11:30,109.99267189 Not everyone was using it. 208 00:11:30,109.99267189 --> 00:11:30,409.99267189 Yeah. 209 00:11:30,859.99267189 --> 00:11:38,589.99267189 And I got all the cover letters for the role I was hiring for and I'm going through it and I was at a team update. 210 00:11:38,589.99267189 --> 00:11:42,9.99267189 I'm like, guys, we have some amazing candidates. 211 00:11:42,59.99267189 --> 00:11:46,289.99267189 They are literally ticking every boxes that I was hoping to find. 212 00:11:46,289.99267189 --> 00:11:46,739.99267189 Yeah. 213 00:11:47,174.99267189 --> 00:11:57,154.99267189 One of the engineers in the room looks at me and he's Claire, you do realize they would've put your job ad into chat, GPT, and they're just telling you what you wanna hear. 214 00:11:57,454.99267189 --> 00:11:58,984.99267189 So that was a bit awkward. 215 00:11:59,464.99267189 --> 00:12:03,774.99267189 So I took grab and then asked chat, GPT how to identify, identify these people. 216 00:12:04,854.99267189 --> 00:12:11,814.99267189 And now when I hire people, I don't even look at the cover letters because I know that it's just likely gonna be chat GPT that's been idealistically matched. 217 00:12:11,874.99267189 --> 00:12:17,814.99267189 I instead rely on the interview process and other, you know, ways to understand and just look at their cv. 218 00:12:17,904.99267189 --> 00:12:19,134.99267189 That's probably also a good match. 219 00:12:19,584.99267189 --> 00:12:32,694.99267189 The hiring process is definitely gonna change because I've also seen so many videos if an interview is online via Zoom, they just have chat, PT going, they've got their phone going, listening to them and providing them a real time response of what the people on the other side wanna hear. 220 00:12:32,964.99267189 --> 00:12:36,924.99267189 So I, I really do wonder what will happen to the hiring process. 221 00:12:36,924.99267189 --> 00:12:39,924.99267189 It's almost like needs to be without tech, without digital. 222 00:12:40,104.99267189 --> 00:12:40,224.99267189 Yes. 223 00:12:40,464.99267189 --> 00:12:44,904.99267189 What are the responses that you're getting? Yes, but I think. 224 00:12:45,264.99267189 --> 00:12:57,994.99267189 There was another story as well where a couple had a fight and the guy used chat, GPT to put in the perspective of it and came back to her and was like, okay, like I hear your perspective. 225 00:12:58,444.99267189 --> 00:12:59,464.99267189 This is my perspective. 226 00:12:59,464.99267189 --> 00:13:00,604.99267189 This is what chat GPT say. 227 00:13:00,604.99267189 --> 00:13:07,154.99267189 And she's you used AI to, dissect, like the fact that you don't have the intelligence to understand what happening. 228 00:13:07,154.99267189 --> 00:13:07,214.99267189 Yeah. 229 00:13:07,214.99267189 --> 00:13:08,144.99267189 That foundation. 230 00:13:08,144.99267189 --> 00:13:10,449.99267189 And he was just like I thought I was doing the good thing. 231 00:13:10,509.99267189 --> 00:13:11,889.99267189 I thought this is what you wanted. 232 00:13:12,174.99267189 --> 00:13:16,174.99267189 Yeah, I guess some people would see it as effort, but some people would see it as cheating. 233 00:13:16,174.99267189 --> 00:13:17,764.99267189 Yeah, like cheating a system. 234 00:13:18,124.99267189 --> 00:13:21,304.99267189 Yeah, and I think the other problem is chat. 235 00:13:21,304.99267189 --> 00:13:25,444.99267189 GBT also is confirmatory and supportive of your view. 236 00:13:26,524.99267189 --> 00:13:32,104.99267189 So yes, you need to put something really awful in it and it will still empathize with you and tell you that you are right. 237 00:13:32,524.99267189 --> 00:13:41,614.99267189 And what's lacking when people are using it for these relationships or free therapy, is it's missing the challenger perspective, which is what you typically would get in therapy. 238 00:13:41,674.99267189 --> 00:13:42,64.99267189 Yes. 239 00:13:42,64.99267189 --> 00:13:50,794.99267189 And on that, and back to confirmation bias, it is that safe place that you can go to because you know you're not gonna be judged, you're not gonna be criticized, and. 240 00:13:51,44.99267189 --> 00:13:55,994.99267189 That's really dangerous 'cause it can enable really unhealthy behavior a hundred percent. 241 00:13:55,994.99267189 --> 00:13:58,514.99267189 Particularly if it's helping you perpetuate those behaviors. 242 00:13:59,209.99267189 --> 00:14:05,539.99267189 So bottom line tech can help you meet, but if it starts doing the loving for you, you're not in a relationship. 243 00:14:05,539.99267189 --> 00:14:07,69.99267189 It really is a simulation. 244 00:14:07,219.99267189 --> 00:14:07,939.99267189 Mm. 245 00:14:09,139.99267189 --> 00:14:13,609.99267189 Alright, gab, let's dive into the latest celebrity saga that's got everyone talking. 246 00:14:13,609.99267189 --> 00:14:15,109.99267189 Hugh Jackman and Deborah Lee. 247 00:14:15,109.99267189 --> 00:14:17,929.99267189 Furnaces divorce after 27 years of marriage. 248 00:14:18,79.99267189 --> 00:14:18,949.99267189 Yes, Claire. 249 00:14:19,39.99267189 --> 00:14:24,204.99267189 And after announcing the separation in September, 2023, I can't believe it's that long ago now. 250 00:14:25,9.99267189 --> 00:14:28,549.99267189 Deb has officially filed for divorce and that was just this week. 251 00:14:28,549.99267189 --> 00:14:30,79.99267189 So it's quite fresh off the press. 252 00:14:30,509.99267189 --> 00:14:37,439.99267189 And what's quite interesting is that she's described the split as a traumatic journey of betrayal and a profound wound. 253 00:14:37,619.99267189 --> 00:14:44,204.99267189 Yeah, that's, that is some choice words, but who is De Lee Finniss? She is an Australian actress and producer. 254 00:14:44,564.99267189 --> 00:14:45,704.99267189 She's best known for shame. 255 00:14:45,704.99267189 --> 00:14:47,974.99267189 I haven't seen that, but should we watch it? I don't know. 256 00:14:47,974.99267189 --> 00:14:48,814.99267189 I've not heard of this. 257 00:14:48,814.99267189 --> 00:14:49,564.99267189 Yeah, let's watch it. 258 00:14:50,54.99267189 --> 00:14:53,444.99267189 And a philanthropic work in advoc adoption advocacy. 259 00:14:53,804.99267189 --> 00:14:58,874.99267189 She met Hugh Jackman in the 1995 on the set of corral, and they married a year later. 260 00:14:58,934.99267189 --> 00:15:03,74.99267189 They over adopted two children, Oscar and Ava after Deborah had fertility struggles. 261 00:15:03,794.99267189 --> 00:15:09,314.99267189 Throughout the 27 year marriage, she was described in the media as the oldest supportive wife. 262 00:15:09,554.99267189 --> 00:15:10,844.99267189 She's a powerhouse in her own right. 263 00:15:10,844.99267189 --> 00:15:12,284.99267189 She's done a lot of really great things. 264 00:15:12,284.99267189 --> 00:15:18,284.99267189 But I definitely would say Deb's always been described and viewed through the lens of Hugh. 265 00:15:19,64.99267189 --> 00:15:23,264.99267189 Everyone knew her as Hugh Jackman's wife, not as, absolutely not Deborah Lee Finn. 266 00:15:23,314.99267189 --> 00:15:23,854.99267189 To be honest, I. 267 00:15:24,349.99267189 --> 00:15:26,934.99267189 I didn't even know any of this about her to be honest's. 268 00:15:26,934.99267189 --> 00:15:28,309.99267189 I, and your name was? Name was Deborah. 269 00:15:28,669.99267189 --> 00:15:31,669.99267189 But I thought it was like Deborah Rah with the RAH. 270 00:15:31,669.99267189 --> 00:15:32,204.99267189 I didn't even know how to spell it. 271 00:15:32,324.99267189 --> 00:15:32,659.99267189 I didn't even know her. 272 00:15:32,659.99267189 --> 00:15:33,259.99267189 It was Deb. 273 00:15:34,69.99267189 --> 00:15:36,859.99267189 I also didn't know that she went by like her own surname. 274 00:15:37,39.99267189 --> 00:15:39,109.99267189 Like I thought it would be like Deborah Jackman. 275 00:15:39,109.99267189 --> 00:15:46,310.99267189 But no, she retained her own name as well, which I think would've been big back then in the nineties when everyone was taking on, you know the husband's name, there was the thing you did. 276 00:15:46,310.99267189 --> 00:15:47,270.99267189 Yeah, absolutely. 277 00:15:47,450.99267189 --> 00:15:48,380.99267189 So they. 278 00:15:48,625.99267189 --> 00:15:54,325.99267189 In 2023, I would say they issued a joint statement saying that they were parting ways to pursue individual grope. 279 00:15:54,325.99267189 --> 00:15:55,495.99267189 It was very polished. 280 00:15:55,855.99267189 --> 00:16:00,715.99267189 They were very private, so she did not often comment on her relationships. 281 00:16:01,75.99267189 --> 00:16:14,995.99267189 So I think we had almost like a royal perception of the relationship, the split, the v, very highly manicured announcement, and now we've actually seen her thoughts come out. 282 00:16:15,535.99267189 --> 00:16:16,555.99267189 Yeah, it's a. 283 00:16:17,360.99267189 --> 00:16:20,120.99267189 Her choice of words is quite interesting to me. 284 00:16:20,600.99267189 --> 00:16:24,800.99267189 It's still quite vague, there's smoke and mirrors, but the use of betrayal. 285 00:16:25,10.99267189 --> 00:16:25,310.99267189 Mm-hmm. 286 00:16:25,550.99267189 --> 00:16:26,90.99267189 In. 287 00:16:26,510.99267189 --> 00:16:30,0.99267189 In that, that's got a strong emotional connotation. 288 00:16:30,150.99267189 --> 00:16:30,630.99267189 Yes. 289 00:16:31,50.99267189 --> 00:16:43,890.9926719 And it is being rumored that Hugh returned to Broadway and then is now in a relationship with CoStar Sutton Foster, and they did the music Man together in 2022, prior to the separation in 2023 for the couple. 290 00:16:44,580.9926719 --> 00:16:49,200.9926719 And people commented on their chemistry, emotional closeness, and. 291 00:16:49,950.9926719 --> 00:16:53,370.9926719 It started to really circulate that they are together now in 2025. 292 00:16:53,610.9926719 --> 00:17:00,850.9926719 So if you're wondering who Sutton is I'm sure there's some of our listeners who have watched younger or, and if they haven't they, they absolutely should. 293 00:17:01,120.9926719 --> 00:17:02,890.9926719 But she was the star of that show. 294 00:17:02,940.9926719 --> 00:17:04,590.9926719 And that's how I came to know her. 295 00:17:05,60.9926719 --> 00:17:05,720.9926719 Great show. 296 00:17:06,110.9926719 --> 00:17:09,730.9926719 But it is interesting because they were colleagues. 297 00:17:09,940.9926719 --> 00:17:15,520.9926719 They obviously spent a lot of time together work at the workplace, which is the stage. 298 00:17:15,610.9926719 --> 00:17:15,880.9926719 Mm-hmm. 299 00:17:16,120.9926719 --> 00:17:16,121.9926719 Mm-hmm. 300 00:17:16,285.9926719 --> 00:17:22,815.9926719 And we don't know what's happened here, but I would suggest that at the time of announcing the separation was. 301 00:17:23,310.9926719 --> 00:17:25,780.9926719 Really early day days for them on what that meant. 302 00:17:25,840.9926719 --> 00:17:30,510.9926719 And now, filing for divorce, this is coming to the time of settlement. 303 00:17:30,510.9926719 --> 00:17:33,420.9926719 This is the messy part where you've gotta talk about assets. 304 00:17:33,900.9926719 --> 00:17:38,10.9926719 It is where you probably will see the true side of that other person. 305 00:17:38,10.9926719 --> 00:17:39,440.9926719 Or, the true colors come out. 306 00:17:39,710.9926719 --> 00:17:42,230.9926719 And it might not be nice, it might be disgusting. 307 00:17:42,230.9926719 --> 00:17:46,300.9926719 It's someone who you thought you knew, this is where all the emotions are brought back up again. 308 00:17:46,450.9926719 --> 00:17:46,720.9926719 Yeah. 309 00:17:46,720.9926719 --> 00:17:47,680.9926719 And one of the things that. 310 00:17:47,950.9926719 --> 00:17:53,860.9926719 Deb's definitely gonna have to face is in saying words like, betrayed, blindsided. 311 00:17:54,280.9926719 --> 00:17:55,900.9926719 Mm, those very emotive words. 312 00:17:56,290.9926719 --> 00:18:00,40.9926719 She could be given the scorn woman identity. 313 00:18:01,360.9926719 --> 00:18:02,50.9926719 And it's not fair. 314 00:18:02,290.9926719 --> 00:18:05,560.9926719 Like it really isn't fair. 315 00:18:05,680.9926719 --> 00:18:09,820.9926719 And I think if roles were reversed, the media would be telling a different story. 316 00:18:09,820.9926719 --> 00:18:13,260.9926719 Although I think I haven't, I haven't seen too much negative about this yet. 317 00:18:13,530.9926719 --> 00:18:21,430.9926719 If anything, I've seen the media portrayed this as, her taking control and taking the power back of her story and the narrative. 318 00:18:21,580.9926719 --> 00:18:21,700.9926719 Mm-hmm. 319 00:18:21,700.9926719 --> 00:18:30,310.9926719 But, I think what we would see if roles were reversed and that, say she went off with someone else I think they'd be quite critical of her a hundred percent. 320 00:18:30,610.9926719 --> 00:18:35,230.9926719 Also, like with the scorn woman identity, I think we've seen a few people recently that have done. 321 00:18:36,55.9926719 --> 00:18:44,95.9926719 Navigated that, and that was Lily Jay who was married to Ethan Slater, and that was the one who had the affair with Ariana Grande when they were filming record. 322 00:18:44,95.9926719 --> 00:18:44,665.9926719 Oh, yes. 323 00:18:44,905.9926719 --> 00:18:45,505.9926719 She did. 324 00:18:45,505.9926719 --> 00:18:52,135.9926719 The most amazing essay that spoke about who she was when they prior to meeting, when they met, dated. 325 00:18:52,135.9926719 --> 00:18:53,65.9926719 She's a doctor, by the way. 326 00:18:53,425.9926719 --> 00:18:53,740.9926719 Okay. 327 00:18:53,740.9926719 --> 00:18:55,285.9926719 She looks super accomplished in her own right. 328 00:18:55,285.9926719 --> 00:19:10,365.9926719 They have a child together, and I think she really spoke about the experience of her separation, and she did it delicately and nuanced that she really circumvented getting called or brought into the messiness of Arianna and Ethan's affair. 329 00:19:11,475.9926719 --> 00:19:12,45.9926719 Good on her. 330 00:19:12,275.9926719 --> 00:19:15,245.9926719 And that was received well? I think it was very well received. 331 00:19:15,245.9926719 --> 00:19:15,545.9926719 Yeah. 332 00:19:15,545.9926719 --> 00:19:19,565.9926719 I think everyone was very complimentary of the way that she's handled herself. 333 00:19:19,925.9926719 --> 00:19:29,735.9926719 She definitely had flipped the narrative and I think it also took away from like Ariana and Ethan's relationship, like it put a certain. 334 00:19:30,320.9926719 --> 00:19:31,190.9926719 Lens on it. 335 00:19:31,760.9926719 --> 00:19:40,940.9926719 So like Deb could definitely challenge that and make sure that he doesn't get the, he's a brave, sensitive man going through a powerful change. 336 00:19:40,940.9926719 --> 00:19:45,140.9926719 He's having his own identity, he's learning what he wants as a person. 337 00:19:45,140.9926719 --> 00:19:46,190.9926719 People change. 338 00:19:46,520.9926719 --> 00:19:49,930.9926719 And Deb can challenge that and say, no, actually that's me. 339 00:19:49,990.9926719 --> 00:19:53,260.9926719 That's me picking myself up after someone pulled. 340 00:19:53,875.9926719 --> 00:19:54,985.9926719 The floor from beneath me. 341 00:19:55,285.9926719 --> 00:19:55,585.9926719 Yeah. 342 00:19:55,585.9926719 --> 00:20:03,815.9926719 And what we do know is that when they did separate part of the announcement was and when they gave a bit of a reason as to why they'd separated, it was to grow individually. 343 00:20:03,815.9926719 --> 00:20:08,345.9926719 So obviously Hugh has found love again. 344 00:20:08,755.9926719 --> 00:20:17,875.9926719 And I think this is why this hits a bit hard and reading betw between the lines of Deb's messages now for the divorce, it's a story that so many women do know. 345 00:20:17,875.9926719 --> 00:20:20,515.9926719 It's that you give your partner space to grow and they leave you. 346 00:20:20,935.9926719 --> 00:20:23,95.9926719 And they've at, when they're at their peak. 347 00:20:23,95.9926719 --> 00:20:28,715.9926719 So you're expected to always be gracious and that supportive person as part of that narrative. 348 00:20:28,715.9926719 --> 00:20:30,575.9926719 And we can really see Deb here is gone. 349 00:20:30,575.9926719 --> 00:20:35,465.9926719 Actually, I am my own person and my side of the story about us too. 350 00:20:36,125.9926719 --> 00:20:42,425.9926719 It, yeah, and I think it's almost like a reminder to us that staying silent doesn't always protect you. 351 00:20:42,425.9926719 --> 00:20:47,855.9926719 And sometimes it's okay to say, I was hurt, I was loyal, and I deserve better. 352 00:20:48,845.9926719 --> 00:20:49,295.9926719 Deb. 353 00:20:49,805.9926719 --> 00:20:53,255.9926719 Have you seen the lap gab? I've seen the slap, yeah. 354 00:20:53,255.9926719 --> 00:20:54,180.9926719 Have you seen the slap? Yeah. 355 00:20:54,180.9926719 --> 00:20:54,340.9926719 Yeah. 356 00:20:54,345.9926719 --> 00:20:54,545.9926719 Yeah. 357 00:20:54,635.9926719 --> 00:21:01,205.9926719 I remember that like when it happened, my neighbor like brought out her iPad and was just like, see this lap? And I'm like, whew. 358 00:21:01,295.9926719 --> 00:21:02,615.9926719 And you can actually watch him recoil. 359 00:21:03,590.9926719 --> 00:21:28,340.9926719 So what we're talking about here is the recent video that has Surface, which is of the French President, Emmanuel Macron, and the first lady Bridget Macron, basically about to disembark off a plane and you can see him through the door and then all of a sudden you see an arm with a red coat just ha the hand hits his face like a slab. 360 00:21:29,360.9926719 --> 00:21:38,480.9926719 You can tell he's caught well off guard, and then he immediately puts his PR face back on. 361 00:21:38,870.9926719 --> 00:21:42,500.9926719 He smiles, he waves at onlookers and it's like nothing even happened. 362 00:21:43,55.9926719 --> 00:22:00,125.9926719 Do you know what this actually reminds me of that scene in love actually, where Hugh Grant and the secretary is like behind the stage at the kids' concert at the end, and then the stage opens and they're kissing, and then they turn, and then they just wave and they bow and then they just run away. 363 00:22:00,305.9926719 --> 00:22:00,515.9926719 Yeah. 364 00:22:02,105.9926719 --> 00:22:02,630.9926719 Oh God. 365 00:22:03,335.9926719 --> 00:22:09,335.9926719 This is of course a different kind of emotional, instance that they've been captured in publicly. 366 00:22:09,455.9926719 --> 00:22:09,875.9926719 Yes. 367 00:22:10,295.9926719 --> 00:22:15,355.9926719 And the French president's office immediately addressed the incident and said it was lighthearted. 368 00:22:15,355.9926719 --> 00:22:18,535.9926719 It was just an affectionate exchange between the couple. 369 00:22:18,805.9926719 --> 00:22:21,445.9926719 He dismissed the buzz stating it was just them joking and teasing. 370 00:22:21,775.9926719 --> 00:22:25,285.9926719 Looking at the video, it didn't look like that, that is their official statement on the matter. 371 00:22:27,205.9926719 --> 00:22:32,815.9926719 Has there been much coming outta this, or is it just really the video and it's just fizzled out to nothing. 372 00:22:34,795.9926719 --> 00:22:36,535.9926719 There's definitely been some commentary on it. 373 00:22:36,695.9926719 --> 00:22:39,305.9926719 But I would say it has gone a bit quiet. 374 00:22:39,695.9926719 --> 00:22:45,325.9926719 People were saying that it's very hard because you only see the arm, you don't see Bridget's reaction, you don't have the face. 375 00:22:45,325.9926719 --> 00:22:47,815.9926719 So I think, we could definitely make assumptions. 376 00:22:47,965.9926719 --> 00:22:49,405.9926719 We don't know the context. 377 00:22:50,50.9926719 --> 00:22:52,930.9926719 No, we don't have the, we don't have the conversation context before then. 378 00:22:53,400.9926719 --> 00:23:02,190.9926719 I do think that maybe it would, if it was opposite and it was a man slapping a woman, though, I do think the media would respond very differently. 379 00:23:02,250.9926719 --> 00:23:02,730.9926719 Yeah. 380 00:23:02,760.9926719 --> 00:23:03,120.9926719 Yeah. 381 00:23:03,120.9926719 --> 00:23:04,80.9926719 A hundred percent. 382 00:23:04,170.9926719 --> 00:23:05,700.9926719 Yeah, that a hundred percent. 383 00:23:05,820.9926719 --> 00:23:06,900.9926719 That is a really good call out. 384 00:23:08,370.9926719 --> 00:23:13,890.9926719 But did you know that there is that huge age gap between the two? No. 385 00:23:14,160.9926719 --> 00:23:16,350.9926719 NI is 24 years, his senior and Gab. 386 00:23:17,265.9926719 --> 00:23:18,615.9926719 She was his teacher. 387 00:23:19,335.9926719 --> 00:23:20,230.9926719 What? Yes. 388 00:23:20,865.9926719 --> 00:23:21,75.9926719 Yes. 389 00:23:21,75.9926719 --> 00:23:22,695.9926719 Did I not know this? Yes. 390 00:23:22,755.9926719 --> 00:23:30,585.9926719 She was a 39-year-old teacher, married with three children, and he was a 15-year-old student at the time. 391 00:23:30,585.9926719 --> 00:23:33,765.9926719 And gosh, the French lived these juicy lives. 392 00:23:34,245.9926719 --> 00:23:34,665.9926719 Yes. 393 00:23:35,175.9926719 --> 00:23:43,145.9926719 And they reconnected a long time later in, 2007 after Bridget's divorce. 394 00:23:43,535.9926719 --> 00:23:48,665.9926719 And then she had a very prominent figure in French public life, but she was his teacher. 395 00:23:48,785.9926719 --> 00:23:50,555.9926719 What? I love that fact. 396 00:23:50,855.9926719 --> 00:23:52,745.9926719 This is not expected. 397 00:23:52,895.9926719 --> 00:23:53,555.9926719 That's cool. 398 00:23:54,255.9926719 --> 00:23:56,235.9926719 Is it well, I don't know. 399 00:23:56,335.9926719 --> 00:23:57,55.9926719 I think it's fine. 400 00:23:57,105.9926719 --> 00:23:58,95.9926719 They're of the age now. 401 00:23:58,95.9926719 --> 00:24:00,585.9926719 I don't know how old they both were when they reconnected. 402 00:24:00,595.9926719 --> 00:24:02,765.9926719 I'm hoping he was over, 21. 403 00:24:03,295.9926719 --> 00:24:06,835.9926719 But it is weird because they would've known each other in such a different circumstance. 404 00:24:06,985.9926719 --> 00:24:07,465.9926719 Yes. 405 00:24:07,555.9926719 --> 00:24:14,415.9926719 And given that he's the, like the figurehead of France, like it's highly unlikely we're gonna get the scandalous details. 406 00:24:14,715.9926719 --> 00:24:16,785.9926719 But it's weird. 407 00:24:17,685.9926719 --> 00:24:18,615.9926719 Yeah, it is a bit weird. 408 00:24:18,855.9926719 --> 00:24:19,425.9926719 I guess you're right. 409 00:24:19,425.9926719 --> 00:24:21,255.9926719 It is a bit weird because. 410 00:24:22,125.9926719 --> 00:24:27,165.9926719 He would probably be a similar age to, I'm not sure if he's got kids, but yeah. 411 00:24:27,315.9926719 --> 00:24:41,585.9926719 How do you even navigate that if you're the same age as the kids of your partner? It would be very challenging, particularly when you are dealing with potentially the children and parental figure relationship, which never changes. 412 00:24:41,585.9926719 --> 00:24:44,975.9926719 Like you are always the children of your parents and they treat you accordingly. 413 00:24:45,485.9926719 --> 00:24:47,650.9926719 So you're treating, your son and daughter. 414 00:24:48,720.9926719 --> 00:24:53,880.9926719 A certain way, but then your spouse is the same age and like it's an, it's a weird dynamic. 415 00:24:53,880.9926719 --> 00:24:54,270.9926719 You're right. 416 00:24:54,270.9926719 --> 00:24:55,395.9926719 It's the more that I think about it. 417 00:24:55,395.9926719 --> 00:25:03,630.9926719 It's, but then does the spouse just become peers to the siblings? Or are they expected to take the parental? It's a very weird dynamic. 418 00:25:03,690.9926719 --> 00:25:04,320.9926719 It's weird. 419 00:25:04,350.9926719 --> 00:25:05,970.9926719 We dunno, the intricacies, we dunno. 420 00:25:05,970.9926719 --> 00:25:11,555.9926719 These people, maybe she's really young at heart and maybe he's an old soul, or, I don't know. 421 00:25:11,710.9926719 --> 00:25:15,111.6849787 There's definitely so many different ways that you can cut it, but 24 years. 422 00:25:15,925.3661159 --> 00:25:24,415.3661159 Let's delve into the unsettling world of digital voyeurism, A term that might sound clinical, but represents deeply invasive violations of privacy. 423 00:25:24,955.3661159 --> 00:25:33,715.3661159 Digital voyeurism involves secretly observing or recording individuals without their consent, often in private settings using hidden cameras or covert reporting devices. 424 00:25:34,45.3661159 --> 00:25:34,645.3661159 This. 425 00:25:35,230.3661159 --> 00:25:40,30.3661159 Breach of privacy can have profound emotional and psychological effects on victims. 426 00:25:40,30.3661159 --> 00:25:42,460.3661159 But this isn't just private settings. 427 00:25:42,460.3661159 --> 00:25:48,910.3661159 There's also people using these devices in public, which is complicated because you can film people in public. 428 00:25:49,360.3661159 --> 00:25:50,265.3661159 Yeah, there's so much gray. 429 00:25:51,475.3661159 --> 00:25:54,625.3661159 A recent case in Sydney brings this issue to the forefront. 430 00:25:55,205.3661159 --> 00:26:06,845.3661159 Louis Alberto Canino Mena, very long name, a 39-year-old man, pleaded guilty to intentionally recording intimate images of his female housemates without their knowledge. 431 00:26:06,845.3661159 --> 00:26:08,585.3661159 So this is all coming to the news this week. 432 00:26:08,635.3661159 --> 00:26:15,415.3661159 He used a pen shaped hidden camera to secretly film them in the bathroom of their shared house. 433 00:26:15,515.3661159 --> 00:26:30,205.3661159 The COVID surveillance was uncovered by the landlord after the tenants had moved out, so he had professional cleaners in who were cleaning the place, discovered it, and that promptly, started that police investigation Oh, uh, I know. 434 00:26:30,205.3661159 --> 00:26:31,195.3661159 That is so disgusting. 435 00:26:31,195.3661159 --> 00:26:39,55.3661159 And it's, they didn't, I don't know how long they were living there, but the fact that it wasn't discovered till afterwards, there's a lot of effort gone into hiding this camera. 436 00:26:39,715.3661159 --> 00:26:40,795.3661159 Oh my goodness. 437 00:26:40,885.3661159 --> 00:26:47,665.3661159 So one of the victims expressed a deep sense of betrayal and called for mean's deportation, citing concerns for public safety. 438 00:26:47,935.3661159 --> 00:26:56,815.3661159 The incident underscores the urgent need for stronger privacy protections and public awareness, particularly with the rise of these devices becoming so easily accessible. 439 00:26:57,630.3661159 --> 00:27:10,40.3661159 On that there was another disturbing case, which was in February this year where an American content creator used meta RayBan smart glasses to secretly film women in Sydney and Melbourne. 440 00:27:10,588.6994492 --> 00:27:14,458.6994492 He uploaded these videos to his social media channels without their consent. 441 00:27:14,758.6994492 --> 00:27:27,418.6994492 Several women who were filmed expressing distress, noting that they were unaware that they were being recorded, and despite the request to remove the videos, he blocked the women and ignored their demands, resulting distress and bullying in the comments of the videos. 442 00:27:27,838.6994492 --> 00:27:28,768.6994492 Oh, that's terrible. 443 00:27:29,38.6994492 --> 00:27:32,758.6994492 There was another case in Sydney Gab where a man. 444 00:27:33,433.6994492 --> 00:27:41,495.7292088 Attended a cafe wearing these glasses and he was doing an expose with the Daily telegraph He is a Jewish man. 445 00:27:41,615.7292088 --> 00:27:41,825.7292088 Yes. 446 00:27:41,825.7292088 --> 00:27:45,515.7292088 And he was trying to provide context of what it's like to be Jewish in Sydney. 447 00:27:45,755.7292088 --> 00:27:46,385.7292088 Interesting. 448 00:27:46,415.7292088 --> 00:27:51,152.6112088 And this is particularly with the growing antisemitism incidents that were occurring. 449 00:27:51,617.6112088 --> 00:27:53,27.6112088 He wore these glasses. 450 00:27:53,457.6112088 --> 00:27:58,801.4887599 They went to Cairo Cafe in Sydney Who have been publicly vocal for their support in whats happening in Gaza. 451 00:27:59,812.3953063 --> 00:28:09,906.3182088 and there was no incident He was wearing these glasses and there was commentary made to say, do you have a problem with me being here? And the staff were like, no, I don't have a problem with you being here. 452 00:28:10,456.3182088 --> 00:28:16,216.3182088 He was wearing these glasses to record them and it created conflict, people were like, hang on a minute. 453 00:28:16,216.3182088 --> 00:28:18,136.3182088 You can't record me without me knowing. 454 00:28:18,526.3182088 --> 00:28:25,580.1962088 Then you get to slice and dice and portray it, to create a narrative that you're trying to portray And the commentary and the fallout was from both sides. 455 00:28:25,580.1962088 --> 00:28:27,200.1962088 People were saying, that's not fair. 456 00:28:27,200.1962088 --> 00:28:28,130.1962088 You can't be divisive. 457 00:28:28,130.1962088 --> 00:28:31,760.1962088 You can't be trying to do these exposes to create controversy where there isn't. 458 00:28:32,150.1962088 --> 00:28:34,910.1962088 There was definitely call out to say, this isn't helpful. 459 00:28:35,30.1962088 --> 00:28:36,200.1962088 We need to be uniting. 460 00:28:36,200.1962088 --> 00:28:38,540.1962088 We need to be supporting our communities. 461 00:28:38,540.1962088 --> 00:28:42,890.1962088 We need to be educating and making people feel like they can't trust. 462 00:28:43,355.1962088 --> 00:28:45,755.1962088 Is very counterproductive to that. 463 00:28:46,175.1962088 --> 00:28:48,195.1962088 And I totally get that. 464 00:28:48,195.1962088 --> 00:28:55,845.1962088 You might want these devices for your own personal safety, but if people don't know they're being recorded, it can create a lot of distrust. 465 00:28:56,25.1962088 --> 00:28:56,805.1962088 Yeah, exactly. 466 00:28:56,855.1962088 --> 00:28:59,660.1962088 I weirdly, as you were saying that to me, I was seeing. 467 00:29:00,530.1962088 --> 00:29:05,240.1962088 Real synergies with almost the thoughts about having guns in America. 468 00:29:05,420.1962088 --> 00:29:12,40.1962088 So I've got my gun for safety, but actually if using correctly that is it's a weapon, let's be real. 469 00:29:12,310.1962088 --> 00:29:13,810.1962088 But it's similar. 470 00:29:13,810.1962088 --> 00:29:21,910.1962088 And I know this might feel like a stretch, but in my mind I'm seeing, people can argue that these devices are used to protect them as surveillance, but. 471 00:29:22,135.1962088 --> 00:29:27,445.1962088 they also have the ability to use that technology for evil as we've seen in these examples. 472 00:29:27,495.1962088 --> 00:29:36,805.1962088 I'm sure that your example that you've just provided, there's good intentions there, but actually you can really see that, not giving people that awareness that they are filming ahead of it. 473 00:29:36,805.1962088 --> 00:29:39,925.1962088 You can really dictate the narrative and what unfolds. 474 00:29:39,925.1962088 --> 00:29:43,525.1962088 And it's not really a fair representation of what may have happened. 475 00:29:43,575.1962088 --> 00:29:44,145.1962088 Absolutely. 476 00:29:44,145.1962088 --> 00:29:46,755.1962088 And then going back to this story of the women in Sydney. 477 00:29:47,18.5295422 --> 00:29:49,358.5295422 They didn't know they were being filmed previously. 478 00:29:49,358.5295422 --> 00:29:55,138.5295422 If you're gonna record someone, you're walking around with a GoPro it gives people a little bit of autonomy to hop out of the video. 479 00:29:55,528.5295422 --> 00:29:56,878.5295422 If you don't know you're being filmed. 480 00:29:56,878.5295422 --> 00:29:57,658.5295422 That's not fair. 481 00:29:58,138.5295422 --> 00:29:58,888.5295422 Exactly. 482 00:29:58,978.5295422 --> 00:30:05,68.5295422 And the incidents really highlight the challenges in addressing, digital voyeurism. 483 00:30:05,518.5295422 --> 00:30:09,864.5295428 While there are laws that exist that are against this behavior. 484 00:30:10,21.1962095 --> 00:30:15,496.1962095 The enforcement around it the public awareness it, there is gray still, there are still hurdles. 485 00:30:15,646.8628755 --> 00:30:25,246.8628755 I think we should legislate to put it back on the producers of these devices, that they need to make it abundantly clear that someone is using these devices and they are recording. 486 00:30:25,246.8628755 --> 00:30:35,446.8628755 It could be that when it records the device, the camera lights up a certain color so that you can see that it's being done and it flashes or something like that. 487 00:30:35,456.8628755 --> 00:30:38,306.8628755 If you retrofit to hide that, then you are breaking the law. 488 00:30:38,601.8628755 --> 00:30:47,961.8628755 So it could be in a private property, it could be in a whatever, but if you are using these devices that is legal and you can't benefit from that. 489 00:30:48,11.8628755 --> 00:30:51,751.8628755 If you use that to create evidence for something it doesn't count. 490 00:30:51,751.8628755 --> 00:30:52,591.8628755 It's inadmissible. 491 00:30:53,131.8628755 --> 00:30:54,571.8628755 If you put that. 492 00:30:55,66.8628755 --> 00:30:56,596.8628755 Footage online, doesn't matter. 493 00:30:56,596.8628755 --> 00:31:02,819.0738755 You could be sued for defamation or charged criminally like little things like that to disincentivize people from using the devices. 494 00:31:03,539.0738755 --> 00:31:12,369.0738755 As technology continues to evolve so really must our understanding of misuse, but also the safeguards of. 495 00:31:12,969.0738755 --> 00:31:18,489.0738755 Making sure that it's safe to use in public because of that potential misuse. 496 00:31:18,749.0738755 --> 00:31:25,289.0738755 Also, we need to not be desensitized to our own privacy violations. 497 00:31:25,349.0738755 --> 00:31:27,689.0738755 We can't just accept it and say, that's just technology. 498 00:31:27,689.0738755 --> 00:31:38,759.0738755 We say, no, no, that is not the right behavior and it's ethical, and we need to put pressure on our politicians to introduce legislation to catch back up on these things. 499 00:31:39,134.0738755 --> 00:31:39,824.0738755 Absolutely. 500 00:31:39,824.0738755 --> 00:31:43,4.0738755 There is that ethics element that just hasn't really caught up yet. 501 00:31:44,915.2303375 --> 00:31:47,225.2303375 A quick legal note before we dive in. 502 00:31:47,435.2303375 --> 00:31:50,135.2303375 Erin Patterson's trial is still underway in Victoria. 503 00:31:50,285.2303375 --> 00:31:53,825.2303375 She has pleaded not guilty and remains presumed innocent. 504 00:31:54,35.2303375 --> 00:31:57,485.2303375 We're only summarizing evidence heard in open court and reputable news. 505 00:31:57,665.2303375 --> 00:32:03,455.2303375 This is commentary, not news, facts or verdict, calling if you're a juror, witness or otherwise involved in the case. 506 00:32:03,515.2303375 --> 00:32:06,455.2303375 Please stop listening now and return after the trial ends. 507 00:32:08,209.2212672 --> 00:32:16,129.2212672 After the last sip of coffee on a Saturday afternoon, three people dead. 508 00:32:16,729.2212672 --> 00:32:20,959.2212672 One more clinging to life from the fatal mushrooms. 509 00:32:21,439.2212672 --> 00:32:28,994.2212672 At the beef Wellington Mu, we bring you the death diaries. 510 00:32:33,159.2212672 --> 00:32:33,789.2212672 Oh my God. 511 00:32:34,479.2212672 --> 00:32:35,139.2212672 So good. 512 00:32:35,349.2212672 --> 00:32:40,359.2212672 I mean, you know what, it's, we're in our final weeks now because it's sad. 513 00:32:40,359.2212672 --> 00:32:45,519.2212672 Really? They're working through a few legal issues and then the jury will deliberate. 514 00:32:46,179.2212672 --> 00:32:52,434.2212672 I reckon they're gonna deli Well, actually, I don't, would you deliberate for a long time on this one? Really? They're being sequestered. 515 00:32:53,419.2212672 --> 00:32:54,4.2212672 They're going on camp. 516 00:32:54,739.2212672 --> 00:32:55,459.2212672 Hang on, hang on. 517 00:32:55,459.2212672 --> 00:32:57,619.2212672 Were they, aren't they already sequestered? No. 518 00:32:57,769.2212672 --> 00:32:59,719.2212672 So for deliberations, they're being sequestered. 519 00:32:59,719.2212672 --> 00:32:59,749.2212672 Oh. 520 00:32:59,749.2212672 --> 00:33:07,849.2212672 So Friday they did some legal matters Monday, I think they've got more legal matters to discuss, and then jury camp starts. 521 00:33:08,149.2212672 --> 00:33:08,569.2212672 I love it. 522 00:33:08,629.2212672 --> 00:33:10,489.2212672 I mean, if it's a nice hotel, drag it out. 523 00:33:10,729.2212672 --> 00:33:11,299.2212672 Enjoy. 524 00:33:11,569.2212672 --> 00:33:12,529.2212672 Oh my God. 525 00:33:12,619.2212672 --> 00:33:15,349.2212672 What would you do if you got sequestered? I would love it. 526 00:33:15,349.2212672 --> 00:33:16,519.2212672 I want it to last forever. 527 00:33:16,609.2212672 --> 00:33:16,669.2212672 Yeah. 528 00:33:16,729.2212672 --> 00:33:18,19.2212672 You know, this is my dream. 529 00:33:18,109.2212672 --> 00:33:20,89.2212672 I love true crime. 530 00:33:20,209.2212672 --> 00:33:23,569.2212672 I love anything about jury duty. 531 00:33:24,49.2212672 --> 00:33:24,439.2212672 Bring it. 532 00:33:24,979.2212672 --> 00:33:30,253.1214939 I wonder if there's rules, are you allowed to have wine at dinner? Because they have to do everything together. 533 00:33:31,257.5888136 --> 00:33:35,496.5570404 Like they're gonna the pub, they're gonna have a steak and red wine? in the movies they do, but I don't know. 534 00:33:35,496.5570404 --> 00:33:37,591.5570404 Are they allowed? I don't know. 535 00:33:37,721.5570404 --> 00:33:44,991.5570404 I think also I was just thinking what would, what kind of person would I be in the room? I think I'd be that annoying person that as soon, like 11 outta 12 people agree. 536 00:33:45,171.5570404 --> 00:33:47,571.5570404 And you're about to get that last person agree and then I might go. 537 00:33:48,381.5570404 --> 00:33:51,201.5570404 But actually, have we thought about this? You know, play that devil's advocate. 538 00:33:51,251.5570404 --> 00:33:53,801.5570404 You love taking that devil's advocate role. 539 00:33:53,811.5570404 --> 00:33:54,981.5570404 I would be that person. 540 00:33:55,221.5570404 --> 00:33:55,491.5570404 Yes. 541 00:33:55,491.5570404 --> 00:33:56,901.5570404 I wouldn't be making any friends out of there. 542 00:33:58,221.5570404 --> 00:33:58,761.5570404 No, no, no. 543 00:33:58,761.5570404 --> 00:34:02,451.5570404 I reckon you would be well adored because you do it in such a like. 544 00:34:02,991.5570404 --> 00:34:04,851.5570404 Let's just, let's just take a step back here. 545 00:34:05,271.5570404 --> 00:34:08,361.5570404 What if, just, just hear me out on this one. 546 00:34:10,146.5570404 --> 00:34:12,126.5570404 This week's been week five, Claire. 547 00:34:12,406.5570404 --> 00:34:13,426.5570404 Let's get everyone listening. 548 00:34:13,426.5570404 --> 00:34:14,56.5570404 Updated. 549 00:34:14,446.5570404 --> 00:34:25,96.5570404 What are the key, moments from the week that has been, we've heard over 50 witnesses and the prosecution has officially wrapped, we already knew this. 550 00:34:25,96.5570404 --> 00:34:27,166.5570404 The defense had alluded to it. 551 00:34:27,616.5570404 --> 00:34:30,676.5570404 They did not call any additional witnesses. 552 00:34:30,676.5570404 --> 00:34:31,501.5570404 Their position is, oh, okay. 553 00:34:31,561.5570404 --> 00:34:32,896.5570404 The case is circumstantial. 554 00:34:33,136.5570404 --> 00:34:36,226.5570404 It was a huge, terrible accident. 555 00:34:36,646.5570404 --> 00:34:38,206.5570404 Erin is not testifying. 556 00:34:38,596.5570404 --> 00:34:40,66.5570404 Oh, so that's been announced. 557 00:34:40,66.5570404 --> 00:34:41,146.5570404 She's not testifying. 558 00:34:41,146.5570404 --> 00:34:51,76.5570404 So the defense's case was presented as part of agreed evidence and also questioning the witnesses that were put forward by the prosecution. 559 00:34:52,156.5570404 --> 00:34:53,626.5570404 Okay, this does happen. 560 00:34:53,626.5570404 --> 00:34:54,530.4572672 This is not nuanced. 561 00:34:54,530.4572672 --> 00:34:57,424.1760404 this isn't Saying there was no one willing to testify on her behalf. 562 00:34:57,904.1760404 --> 00:35:01,444.1760404 It was the defense saying, we don't feel like we need to bring anything more in. 563 00:35:01,444.1760404 --> 00:35:03,64.1760404 I think the case is very circumstantial. 564 00:35:03,114.1760404 --> 00:35:05,184.1760404 That will speed it up, won't it? It does speed it up. 565 00:35:05,234.1760404 --> 00:35:07,694.1760404 There's definitely trials where. 566 00:35:08,219.1760404 --> 00:35:11,519.1760404 Particularly in the US the defense puts on a very performative case. 567 00:35:11,699.1760404 --> 00:35:11,879.1760404 Yeah. 568 00:35:12,149.1760404 --> 00:35:17,589.1760404 So that's where, once they get going, they could be an extra few weeks, they've got a whole bunch of additional witnesses. 569 00:35:17,589.1760404 --> 00:35:19,629.1760404 Sometimes they'll recall witnesses as well. 570 00:35:20,289.1760404 --> 00:35:27,949.1760404 In the, our system, which is inspired from the British system of court proceedings, how the courts operate is probably the better way to say it. 571 00:35:28,939.1760404 --> 00:35:30,709.1760404 The defense case. 572 00:35:31,24.1760404 --> 00:35:32,374.1760404 Often is very limited. 573 00:35:32,764.1760404 --> 00:35:39,484.1760404 I remember there was a huge case in the UK called the Lucy Lepe case, and that went for months. 574 00:35:39,754.1760404 --> 00:35:39,994.1760404 Oh, wow. 575 00:35:39,994.1760404 --> 00:35:52,944.1760404 It took months for the prosecution to present the case and all the agreed evidence and the defense picked holes through it, and then Lucy's defense started and it was, it was one defendant it was two, it was Lucy. 576 00:35:52,994.1760404 --> 00:35:55,304.1760404 She defended herself, so she gave evidence. 577 00:35:55,979.1760404 --> 00:35:57,899.1760404 And then a plumber, and that was it. 578 00:35:57,899.1760404 --> 00:35:59,849.1760404 Everyone was like, get ready for the defense. 579 00:35:59,849.1760404 --> 00:36:01,134.1760404 And then it, it just didn't, and that was it. 580 00:36:01,259.1760404 --> 00:36:01,679.1760404 That was it. 581 00:36:01,679.1760404 --> 00:36:04,49.1760404 That was all they felt that they needed to put in. 582 00:36:04,109.1760404 --> 00:36:17,789.1760404 So again, you can't really take too much away from the fact that the defense did not put forward it, but it is wrapping up now because they'll be going into deliberations and you don't know how long it's gonna take. 583 00:36:17,969.1760404 --> 00:36:22,19.1760404 And then doing some research, there is no correlation between. 584 00:36:22,454.1760404 --> 00:36:25,304.1760404 The verdict that's given and how long they deliberate. 585 00:36:25,754.1760404 --> 00:36:25,964.1760404 Really. 586 00:36:26,654.1760404 --> 00:36:28,574.1760404 So you can't be like they're taking days. 587 00:36:28,574.1760404 --> 00:36:33,464.1760404 It must be They have no idea because they do it different ways. 588 00:36:33,854.1760404 --> 00:36:38,234.1760404 And I guess it depends on who's in the room, deliberating differently, personalities. 589 00:36:38,234.1760404 --> 00:36:40,784.1760404 'cause it is a cross section of our community. 590 00:36:41,144.1760404 --> 00:36:41,504.1760404 Yeah. 591 00:36:41,684.1760404 --> 00:36:49,694.1760404 So what happened on Monday then we heard from Shaman Fox Henry, who is a dig forensic digital officer and. 592 00:36:50,384.1760404 --> 00:36:56,324.1760404 He admits that he wasn't formally trained on the software that was used to examine Patterson's devices. 593 00:36:56,504.1760404 --> 00:36:58,634.1760404 So Erin Patterson had a number of devices. 594 00:36:58,634.1760404 --> 00:37:01,124.1760404 She had a couple of different phones, some tablets and laptops. 595 00:37:01,454.1760404 --> 00:37:03,424.1760404 She's a quite a, Avid technology user. 596 00:37:04,329.1760404 --> 00:37:10,839.1760404 So that was quite interesting and I think this was the first time we really started to see the defense start to really pick holes. 597 00:37:10,839.1760404 --> 00:37:23,49.1760404 Like they were creating a lot of distrust in some of the more significant evidence because the forensic information that Shame and Fox Henry picked up on was the fact that she searched for death Cap mushroom. 598 00:37:23,49.1760404 --> 00:37:24,699.1760404 She was using the iNaturalist website. 599 00:37:24,849.1760404 --> 00:37:29,539.1760404 So it was the defense saying can we really trust that your analysis on this is accurate and. 600 00:37:30,34.1760404 --> 00:37:34,324.1760404 Outta curiosity, did we find out if, 'cause you, you said she has multiple phones. 601 00:37:34,384.1760404 --> 00:37:44,734.1760404 Was it one of the phones she was using to search this stuff? They said that there was one of the phones, but they can't prove that it was within Erin's device. 602 00:37:44,944.1760404 --> 00:37:51,184.1760404 They also said that she switched the SIM cards, but they can't guarantee that she switched the SIM cards. 603 00:37:51,184.1760404 --> 00:38:01,889.1760404 They didn't observe her doing the sim card switch, but they acknowledged that when they're alleging the SIM card switch, she was with them I think again, that was something where people went, oh, I'm not sure about that. 604 00:38:01,889.1760404 --> 00:38:02,639.1760404 Because if she was. 605 00:38:03,449.1760404 --> 00:38:09,329.1760404 In your presence, wouldn't you have seen like it's, do you know how hard it's to switch the SIM card on your iPhone? You have to have that little tool. 606 00:38:09,389.1760404 --> 00:38:10,409.1760404 Oh, you get an earring. 607 00:38:10,409.1760404 --> 00:38:11,159.1760404 It takes time. 608 00:38:11,159.1760404 --> 00:38:12,59.1760404 You're fumbling around. 609 00:38:12,209.1760404 --> 00:38:12,374.1760404 Oh, ear earing. 610 00:38:12,379.1760404 --> 00:38:13,49.1760404 Never think of that. 611 00:38:13,109.1760404 --> 00:38:13,349.1760404 Yeah. 612 00:38:13,404.1760404 --> 00:38:18,984.1760404 Have you never been on a plane and you're trying to switch your international SIM card and you're like shoving your earing? Oh, well, no. 613 00:38:18,984.1760404 --> 00:38:19,644.1760404 For a long time. 614 00:38:19,644.1760404 --> 00:38:22,14.1760404 I use an e sim these days, Claire. 615 00:38:22,14.1760404 --> 00:38:22,44.1760404 Ah. 616 00:38:22,594.1760404 --> 00:38:28,499.1760404 Yeah, I have two sims in my phone so I can avoid having a work phone and a personal phone. 617 00:38:28,499.1760404 --> 00:38:30,539.1760404 So I've got one phone with two sims. 618 00:38:31,259.1760404 --> 00:38:35,879.1760404 Then the new iPhones actually can have multiple eims in there. 619 00:38:35,879.1760404 --> 00:38:37,859.1760404 So you don't really need multiple phones these days. 620 00:38:38,99.1760404 --> 00:38:38,519.1760404 Thank you. 621 00:38:38,519.1760404 --> 00:38:44,39.1760404 But anyway, that was, that was my thing is to say you probably would've seen her switch her sim cards. 622 00:38:44,39.1760404 --> 00:38:47,309.1760404 But on that though, I do find it a bit interesting. 623 00:38:47,429.1760404 --> 00:38:48,359.1760404 'Cause she doesn't work. 624 00:38:48,359.1760404 --> 00:38:51,749.1760404 I understand why people have a work phone and personal phone, but to have multiple personal phones. 625 00:38:52,259.1760404 --> 00:38:52,769.1760404 Interesting. 626 00:38:53,339.1760404 --> 00:38:56,129.1760404 There's a certain persona of people I know of multiple phones when I work. 627 00:38:56,219.1760404 --> 00:38:58,859.1760404 Oh, really? Sorry, I'm so naive in that. 628 00:38:58,919.1760404 --> 00:39:00,149.1760404 Oh, really? Yes. 629 00:39:00,479.1760404 --> 00:39:00,599.1760404 Okay. 630 00:39:00,599.1760404 --> 00:39:00,601.1760404 Fair enough. 631 00:39:00,601.1760404 --> 00:39:01,379.1760404 You know exactly who I'm talking about. 632 00:39:01,409.1760404 --> 00:39:02,129.1760404 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 633 00:39:03,639.1760404 --> 00:39:14,919.1760404 We heard from Sally Ann Atkinson, and she was in the Department of Health, and Erin denied foraging, but did say that she wanted to present a really fancy lunch because she never had people over. 634 00:39:15,249.1760404 --> 00:39:18,459.1760404 She gave really shifting stories on where she bought the mushrooms. 635 00:39:19,74.1760404 --> 00:39:25,644.1760404 A timeline on when she purchased the ingredients, cha changed multiple times and she made it really hard for the Department of Health. 636 00:39:25,644.1760404 --> 00:39:28,254.1760404 We were trying to do tracing on what's actually happened. 637 00:39:28,284.1760404 --> 00:39:36,414.1760404 'cause at this time they were going wide and they were like, what if this is a general health crisis that we need to actively now manage? Yes. 638 00:39:36,414.1760404 --> 00:39:43,573.5093744 'cause she claimed that she's shopped at Woolworths, right? The prosecution were alleging, she hasn't been honest for specific reasons. 639 00:39:44,353.5093744 --> 00:39:46,153.5093744 The defense are like, yeah, she lied. 640 00:39:46,153.5093744 --> 00:39:49,903.5093744 She lied 'cause she was panicking, she was trying to absolve herself of what's happened. 641 00:39:49,933.5093744 --> 00:39:50,923.5093744 'cause she was horrified. 642 00:39:50,923.5093744 --> 00:39:54,163.5093744 Like they, that was their position to say people lie under panic. 643 00:39:54,973.5093744 --> 00:39:57,133.5093744 Interesting, interesting way to go about it. 644 00:39:57,193.5093744 --> 00:39:57,433.5093744 Mm-hmm. 645 00:39:57,763.5093744 --> 00:40:01,603.5093744 And then Tuesday Atkinson was cross examined. 646 00:40:03,43.5093744 --> 00:40:03,523.5093744 Yes. 647 00:40:04,63.5093744 --> 00:40:05,263.5093744 So continued. 648 00:40:05,323.5093744 --> 00:40:09,743.5093744 And then we heard from Luke Pharrell, who was part of the search of Erin's home. 649 00:40:10,403.5093744 --> 00:40:13,373.5093744 They found the cookbook Open to Beef Wellington. 650 00:40:13,373.5093744 --> 00:40:14,393.5093744 It was a recipe Tin eat cookbook. 651 00:40:14,393.5093744 --> 00:40:14,723.5093744 I know. 652 00:40:14,723.5093744 --> 00:40:16,133.5093744 That's what I wanted to talk to you about. 653 00:40:16,133.5093744 --> 00:40:17,333.5093744 It's recipe tin eat. 654 00:40:17,393.5093744 --> 00:40:17,573.5093744 Sorry. 655 00:40:17,603.5093744 --> 00:40:20,153.5093744 You know what, I'm gonna make that beef Wellington now and tell you what. 656 00:40:20,418.5093744 --> 00:40:21,593.5093744 Okay, so I bought one. 657 00:40:21,593.5093744 --> 00:40:22,373.5093744 You're gonna make it. 658 00:40:22,553.5093744 --> 00:40:23,273.5093744 I'm gonna make one. 659 00:40:23,273.5093744 --> 00:40:24,113.5093744 We love Nagi. 660 00:40:24,233.5093744 --> 00:40:30,473.5093744 We do love Nagi Digital Scales with a dehydrator manual, but no dehydrator. 661 00:40:31,88.5093744 --> 00:40:33,308.5093744 Erin gave her phone but fumbled the pin. 662 00:40:33,998.5093744 --> 00:40:39,68.5093744 And then when told Gail and Heather had died, Erin's responded, who died. 663 00:40:39,878.5093744 --> 00:40:50,998.5093744 So it was a bit awkward, but Erin had also not been receiving updates on those that were affected by the mushroom lunch, but she also wasn't asking, which was interesting. 664 00:40:51,703.5093744 --> 00:40:59,23.5093744 Yeah, because I, if I had cooked lunch for people and people were really unwell, you would feel so terrible. 665 00:40:59,23.5093744 --> 00:41:02,983.5093744 Right? You'd be feeling so, oh my God, I'm so responsible. 666 00:41:02,983.5093744 --> 00:41:05,978.5093744 Are they okay? You know what is happening? But that's right. 667 00:41:06,368.5093744 --> 00:41:06,658.5093744 Yeah. 668 00:41:06,823.5093744 --> 00:41:12,973.5093744 But the other thing to say is we can't take anything from someone's reaction to grief or shock. 669 00:41:13,213.5093744 --> 00:41:14,428.5093744 Like I know you're right. 670 00:41:14,428.5093744 --> 00:41:20,263.5093744 Like one of the biggest cases where that happened was Lindy Chamberlain and people say that she was not the right victim. 671 00:41:20,608.5093744 --> 00:41:21,958.5093744 And she was found to be innocent. 672 00:41:22,18.5093744 --> 00:41:25,663.5093744 She was innocent and people were saying that she was s the dingo did sell her ba steal her baby. 673 00:41:25,663.5093744 --> 00:41:33,808.5093744 She was stoic, she was cold, she was this, and then, that's not what a woman who's lost her child would behave but it was proven that a dingo did take her baby. 674 00:41:33,868.5093744 --> 00:41:35,158.5093744 I know Paul Lindy. 675 00:41:35,488.5093744 --> 00:41:44,488.5093744 So again, I don't think we can really comment on Erin, not being the perfect person, but I think more what we're reading into is. 676 00:41:45,148.5093744 --> 00:41:48,688.5093744 Her words and why, and that's also what the jury will be taking. 677 00:41:48,688.5093744 --> 00:41:54,868.5093744 They're taking what the prosecution is presenting, the defense's, rationale, and forming their own opinions on that. 678 00:41:55,468.5093744 --> 00:42:03,808.5093744 On that, with her police interview, they asked her about the dehydrator, and we heard that interview this week. 679 00:42:04,528.5093744 --> 00:42:14,68.5093744 When they asked if she's got she, I found her, her answers quite interesting to those questions about the dehydrator and the manual, because the manual was there at the home. 680 00:42:14,158.5093744 --> 00:42:14,278.5093744 Mm-hmm. 681 00:42:15,718.5093744 --> 00:42:21,838.5093744 And maybe Erin's interview gave the jury a human moment because she was rattled. 682 00:42:22,258.5093744 --> 00:42:32,333.5093744 But court in lies, and when you're caught in lies, maybe you lie to cover for the lie And that's the thing is what you were saying before, I guess you could suggest that. 683 00:42:33,998.5093744 --> 00:42:43,48.5093744 She is, was panicking because of the seriousness of it and not because of guilt or like in terms of wrongdoing. 684 00:42:43,318.5093744 --> 00:42:43,558.5093744 Yeah. 685 00:42:43,918.5093744 --> 00:42:46,348.5093744 And the other thing is that she did respond. 686 00:42:46,588.5093744 --> 00:42:51,328.5093744 She participated, she gave information when asked, she gave the traces of the meal. 687 00:42:51,378.5093744 --> 00:42:58,188.5093744 I think again, it'll be really interesting to see when presented all this information, how the jury digested. 688 00:42:58,188.5093744 --> 00:43:00,763.5093744 And we're not sitting in the courtroom, we're not seeing, no, no. 689 00:43:00,798.5093744 --> 00:43:02,178.5093744 The full presentation. 690 00:43:02,178.5093744 --> 00:43:05,328.5093744 We're just commenting based on the, what, where is available to us. 691 00:43:05,598.5093744 --> 00:43:06,168.5093744 Yes, exactly. 692 00:43:06,168.5093744 --> 00:43:06,468.5093744 Right. 693 00:43:08,658.5093744 --> 00:43:17,898.5093744 And what about Wednesday? Any other key things that happened? Midweek hump, hump day? No, I think that was just the key more information about what was searched and traced. 694 00:43:18,903.5093744 --> 00:43:23,193.5093744 Thursday, we saw some really big punches back from the defense. 695 00:43:23,193.5093744 --> 00:43:32,633.5093744 And someone, a very popular TikTok lawyer, commented that this was a masterclass in defense defense probing. 696 00:43:32,663.5093744 --> 00:43:33,593.5093744 And I was like, okay. 697 00:43:33,603.5093744 --> 00:43:37,343.5093744 That's quite a positive way to describe it. 698 00:43:37,373.5093744 --> 00:43:40,653.5093744 What happened? It was giving accolades is probably how I'd say, yeah. 699 00:43:40,863.5093744 --> 00:43:44,223.5093744 They did a lot of cross examination of the. 700 00:43:44,628.5093744 --> 00:43:57,678.5093744 Digital stuff that was seized and how it was analyzed and the limitations because the police didn't do full analysis 'cause it was so expensive and the defense were like, mm, well what didn't you miss? 'cause you were being cheap. 701 00:43:57,828.5093744 --> 00:44:01,278.5093744 So really critical evaluation of that. 702 00:44:02,958.5093744 --> 00:44:09,78.5093744 They did the subway CCTV and said, we're not quite sure that's her son in the footage of. 703 00:44:09,783.5093744 --> 00:44:11,703.5093744 Him being at Subway on this. 704 00:44:11,943.5093744 --> 00:44:15,573.5093744 So I remember hearing about a lot about that Subway thing this week. 705 00:44:15,603.5093744 --> 00:44:25,723.5093744 What's the relevancy of this? What's the subway instance got to do with this whole thing? Was it about her when she went shopping? It was about her behavior after the incident. 706 00:44:25,843.5093744 --> 00:44:25,963.5093744 Oh. 707 00:44:25,963.5093744 --> 00:44:27,193.5093744 So it was after it all happened. 708 00:44:27,313.5093744 --> 00:44:28,123.5093744 After it happened. 709 00:44:28,513.5093744 --> 00:44:35,688.5093744 And when she was saying I was really unwell and her watching her out and about and seemingly fine and this sort of saying away from the bathroom. 710 00:44:35,758.5093744 --> 00:44:36,48.5093744 Yeah. 711 00:44:37,238.5093744 --> 00:44:41,828.5093744 And also I remember hearing something this week about a Lego room. 712 00:44:42,608.5093744 --> 00:44:45,458.5093744 What was that about? Like a leg. 713 00:44:48,8.5093744 --> 00:44:50,678.5093744 She had this obsession with Lego so fascinating. 714 00:44:50,708.5093744 --> 00:44:53,528.5093744 And hours after the lunch, she was building Lego in her Lego room. 715 00:44:54,938.5093744 --> 00:44:55,958.5093744 What? Yeah. 716 00:44:55,958.5093744 --> 00:45:00,913.5093744 I mean we also have a mutual friend that's, we do have a mutual, beautiful friend that has Lego room, which is very impressive. 717 00:45:01,303.5093744 --> 00:45:03,13.5093744 It is insane and it's just, it's a hobby. 718 00:45:03,13.5093744 --> 00:45:04,663.5093744 So I don't think you can really take too much about that. 719 00:45:04,663.5093744 --> 00:45:08,3.5093744 But they were they made a point of saying after this lunch. 720 00:45:08,708.5093744 --> 00:45:11,938.5093744 She's gone to make a Lego in the liquor room, but also could be therapeutic. 721 00:45:11,938.5093744 --> 00:45:16,988.5093744 It could be, and if your tummy's not well, if your tummy's not well I, it's not far from the bathroom. 722 00:45:17,18.5093744 --> 00:45:18,308.5093744 It's a safe activity. 723 00:45:18,608.5093744 --> 00:45:18,698.5093744 Mm-hmm. 724 00:45:19,28.5093744 --> 00:45:20,468.5093744 It's a short sprint if you need. 725 00:45:20,523.5093744 --> 00:45:25,863.5093744 The other thing that said is that Erin's venting on the Facebook groups was just normal, more venting about your in-laws. 726 00:45:26,763.5093744 --> 00:45:30,333.5093744 It's just a bit weird to vent about your in-laws on a Facebook group with people you've never met. 727 00:45:30,603.5093744 --> 00:45:34,113.5093744 Don't you think? But she might not have had any other friends. 728 00:45:34,113.5093744 --> 00:45:35,43.5093744 They were her friends. 729 00:45:35,643.5093744 --> 00:45:54,403.5093744 And was the venting negative about the in-laws? It was frustration, but I think, we have our WhatsApp groups and we vent, but if you don't have any friends or you are, people's, some people have their world online, so I'm not really taking anything from that because I've definitely vented about people. 730 00:45:55,378.5093744 --> 00:45:59,368.5093744 We group, granted mostly people I know, but like I don't think you can really take anything from that. 731 00:45:59,368.5093744 --> 00:46:02,758.5093744 It's starting to paint a picture of me, of a woman who's quite lonely. 732 00:46:03,328.5093744 --> 00:46:04,948.5093744 Yeah, she's lonely. 733 00:46:04,948.5093744 --> 00:46:06,838.5093744 She's using the online to have company. 734 00:46:07,378.5093744 --> 00:46:08,8.5093744 Yeah, definitely. 735 00:46:09,388.5093744 --> 00:46:12,88.5093744 And then Friday we had the end of evidence. 736 00:46:12,88.5093744 --> 00:46:18,178.5093744 So the defense really leaned on the fact that there was no hard proof of the sim swapping. 737 00:46:18,703.5093744 --> 00:46:20,23.5093744 They said Erin was cooperative. 738 00:46:20,353.5093744 --> 00:46:20,593.5093744 Yeah. 739 00:46:20,723.5093744 --> 00:46:27,503.5093744 They said that the police searches were not thorough and they really focused purely on this one narrative of what they think happened. 740 00:46:27,503.5093744 --> 00:46:31,493.5093744 And they didn't think broader about what could have happened, other ways about it. 741 00:46:32,163.5093744 --> 00:46:39,63.5093744 The defense confirmed that they're not gonna be doing any further witnesses and Erin will not be testifying, and then they had some procedural matters. 742 00:46:39,63.5093744 --> 00:46:42,543.5093744 So next week will be closing arguments and jury deliberation. 743 00:46:42,933.5093744 --> 00:46:44,73.5093744 I'm really excited. 744 00:46:44,643.5093744 --> 00:46:45,3.5093744 Yeah. 745 00:46:45,3.5093744 --> 00:46:48,663.5093744 Potentially next week we can start to do our debrief on what's happened. 746 00:46:48,663.5093744 --> 00:46:49,533.5093744 If we have an answer. 747 00:46:50,83.5093744 --> 00:47:15,655.176041 And explain this to me because I feel like you are more experienced and watching court cases, but at the end when they have their closing statements, is this, when you, see the narrative that each sides are conveying has happened? It is, but it's not performative like in the US It is just a summary of the evidence and their interpretation of the evidence and their criticism and critical evaluation okay, so it's more fact it's, yeah, less and less bells and whistles. 748 00:47:15,745.176041 --> 00:47:15,775.176041 Okay. 749 00:47:15,775.176041 --> 00:47:23,925.176041 And then the judge will also summarize the case for the jury and provide instructions to the jury on how they proceed with their deliberations. 750 00:47:24,585.176041 --> 00:47:25,305.176041 Oh, I can't wait. 751 00:47:25,575.176041 --> 00:47:25,965.176041 Mm-hmm. 752 00:47:27,45.5093737 --> 00:47:27,315.5093737 Gab. 753 00:47:27,315.5093737 --> 00:47:29,355.5093737 I think that's all we've got time for this week. 754 00:47:29,355.5093737 --> 00:47:35,835.5093737 We've been breaking down AI and dating Debon Hughes Heartbreak, digital Snooping, and the latest from Death Cap Diaries. 755 00:47:36,105.5093737 --> 00:47:38,85.5093737 If you like the episode, rate and review us. 756 00:47:38,85.5093737 --> 00:47:39,525.5093737 It really helps us keep spinning. 757 00:47:39,738.8427071 --> 00:47:40,608.8427071 Catch you next week.

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AI Dating Disasters, Hugh Jackman & Deborra-Lee Furness Divorce, Macron’s Slap and Erin Patterson trial update

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