This week on Spin Cycle:
We're diving into four big stories dominating Aussie headlines right now:
🗳️ Federal Election Fallout – A shock Labor landslide, the loss of Peter Dutton’s seat in Dixon, and the Greens battling to hold ground. Claire and Gab unpack whether this was a vote for stability—or a rejection of Trump-style politics. Plus, what’s next for the fractured Liberal Party, and could the Teals form a new centrist force?
🍄 Mushroom Trial Update – Erin Patterson is on trial for allegedly serving a fatal meal. We break down key evidence, legal arguments, and the intense media focus on Morwell. This case has everything: foraging, crockery, deleted data, and courtroom drama.
📚 Brookie’s Bakehouse Recipe Scandal – A bestselling Penguin cookbook faces plagiarism allegations, accused of copying Nagi from RecipeTin Eats. We explore what copyright does (and doesn’t) protect, and why influencer publishing is under scrutiny once again.
💉 GoFundMe Healthcare & TikTok Fundraising – Gab explores the rise of people turning to social media to fund IVF, cancer treatment, and legal costs. We talk about algorithm appeal, digital empathy, and whether this shift says more about content—or a broken system.
⚖️ Legal Disclaimer (Erin Patterson Trial): Erin Patterson has pleaded not guilty and remains presumed innocent. All discussion in this episode is based on publicly available information and commentary. We are not asserting guilt or influencing legal outcomes. If you're a juror, witness, or involved in the case, please stop listening and return after the trial concludes.
💬 Whether it’s ballots, brownies, or a very public bake-off, we’re digging into the patterns, power plays, and (of course) the spin behind the stories.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
So Claire, I need to open this episode with a bit of a confession, and that is that I went mushroom foraging on the weekend in the Matson Ranges.
Why'd you do that? Well, why? I mean like, oh, what have we learned? Look, I obviously, it's quite timely with everything going on.
(00:24):
With this Erin Patterson case, but it was on the agenda regardless.
I was actually supposed to do it a few weekends ago, but I was curious, are mushrooms easily to find and like what kind of mushrooms are around? And yeah.
It was a very successful trip in a sense of finding a lot of variation in the mushrooms.
(00:45):
And I took heaps of photos, which I think I've sent you a few.
Have you eaten any of the mushrooms? No.
So I guess the one thing is there was plenty of them, however, there was no, from what I mean, I'm not an expert.
According to chat chip tea, do not eat a mushroom unless you are an expert and you know how to identify them.
(01:06):
So you went on a mushroom observation tour.
Well, you didn't pick anything.
No, the intent was actually to find field mushrooms or I think there's, they're called, I wanna say dairy milk milk cap.
Yeah.
They're edible ones.
Yeah.
We just call them field mushrooms.
Found none of those.
So I think Coron and I were the last ones to the party, but there were so many other ones that absolutely looked poisonous.
(01:28):
I've been Googling a lot of them.
Some of them, honestly, I think were death cap mushrooms and if that's the case.
They are very easy to find.
That was my first.
Foraging experience.
Oh God.
We need to get my mom on the mission.
She's really good at this, apparently.
Okay.
She said she's like, I know how to pick mushrooms, so maybe we just need to, you need to take, go.
(01:49):
Maybe next time I'll take your mom.
But it was really fun.
Alright, well, on today's episode, we are covering the election fallout and the farewell of Peter Dutton, A mushroom lady update.
A flaky plagiarism scandal involving caramel slice and the rising trend of people turning to social media to pay for their healthcare.
(02:26):
Welcome to Spin Cycle.
Where we dig into the story shaping the world and take a closer look at the patterns, power plays and yes, the biases, hiding in plain sight where Gab and Claire, two friends with MBAs.
A lot of opinions and a healthy amount of skepticism.
We are here to help you think twice and maybe have a few laughs.
Let's get spinning.
But first Gab, what is top of mind for you this week? Look, there's a few things top of mind for me this week.
(02:51):
Last week I traveled for work for a few days.
Yeah, which.
I haven't done that for a few months.
And you know what? Sometimes it is nice to go travel by yourself, get room service in the room and Yeah.
And do that whole thing like spread out in the bed, get your room service to eat your food in your bed.
Yeah, that is, use all the towels and totally use all the facilities in that room.
(03:12):
And that was great.
But what I didn't enjoy, and this is such a first world problem, but both ways on the plane, I was in the middle seat.
What did you do to offend the person that booked your travel? Well, look, I honestly, I try that that, that this is, that is punishment.
Someone, I don't know what I did in the previous life, but someone up there is not happy with me because I went and tried to change it.
(03:38):
I think it's because I booked the travel quite last minute.
Mm-hmm.
But usually, there's one seat or another, like an aisle or window somewhere on the plane.
Yeah.
So on the way there was Okay.
But on the way back.
I was between two like tall, large men.
And it's that.
I'm usually that person.
I'm the that polite person who keeps my elbows on the inside of the armrest because I'm a nice person.
(04:04):
But the rule is if you are in the middle seat, you get the armrest.
Well, guess what? I got none.
I got none.
My arms were, my elbows were at my waist.
Uh, they had the armrest, but also, mind you, I was coming from Perth.
It was 30 degrees.
For some weird reason they must live in Perth.
They both had the most warmest, woolen jumpers on and they were huge.
(04:26):
So they were radiating heat.
And also, I know this is horrible to say I feel bad, but it.
I was on a virgin flight and there was no screen or anything.
And then I started feeling sick, so I was like, I can't even listen to anything.
So I raw dobbed it and I had my eyes closed.
Everyone knows what that means, I hope.
(04:46):
But yeah, eyes closed.
Nothing going on in my ears.
Just trying to focus, drinking the, the free water.
And so I think I'm, Friday night was a bit of a nothing for me 'cause I was just recovering from that.
That sounds like actually a torture.
What about you? What's what's been on your mind? I was actually just thinking recently I got my first pair of Birkenstocks and Oh as an adult.
(05:09):
'cause obviously as an adult.
Yeah.
And they are so comfortable.
I like knock them for ages.
And then 'cause all the Pilate girlies at where I go, they all wear Birkenstocks with their Pilate stocks.
And I thought it was really cute.
So I, is this, are these the ones that are closed toe? No, these are open, but so super comfy shoes and on Saturday I work to the election and it's a huge day.
(05:31):
It's like a 17, 18 hour day.
It's a long day.
And I wanted optimum comfort, so I took like a pair of runners and my BS with me.
I ended up deciding to keep the berks on 'cause they're so comfortable.
But then I was like, will really optimize my experience right now.
What if I put on a pair of cruise socks? Oh no.
Take the entire 18 hours wearing berks and socks.
(05:54):
And you know what? I was really comfortable.
Okay, can you just help slow this to me because the berks that I know have a little.
Like G-string for your toe? No, no, these are just like straight across.
They're like slides.
Oh, I was gonna say, how are you doing this with socks? Did you bring back the toe socks? This, I was gonna say this outfit is like a return to 2004.
Look.
(06:15):
At the end of the day, people just wanted to vote.
They didn't care what I was wearing on my feet, but I was, it sounds comfort.
So comfortable.
To be honest.
They sound cute.
You're gonna have to show me a photo the next time I see someone with BS and Socks.
It's more like so solidarity.
It's like they are comfort people and I get that.
Watch me buy some now.
After a five week campaign, we have finally got the outcome of this year's federal election, and it was a labor landslide, and it was one of those ones where no one saw it coming weeks ago.
(06:46):
We said if it was a minority government, labor would be doing well.
They have.
Gained so much more ground than what they started with, which was insane.
Yeah.
And which is baffling to me because I, as we've spoken about in previous episodes, the campaigns have been pretty meh.
I, you would think that with these kind of results, something really extravagant would've been behind it.
(07:09):
But what do you think and what's your perspective on what has caused this massive shift Trump.
Trumpian Politics, Australia regret rejecting Trumpian politics.
The I believe, is that voters wanted to keep the status quo knowing that there's so much uncertainty from Trump ahead.
The, it's mostly Justin's alignment has really, the devil you know, is better than the devil.
(07:32):
You don't know Yeah.
And this election, by all regards has been.
A referendum to reject or say no to Peter Dutton and his Trump style politics.
And if you asked me a week or two ago, du Peter Dutton loses his seat in Dixon, I'd have been like, nah, he's got that in the bag.
He's held it for so long.
(07:55):
But unfortunately he couldn't.
The voter.
Movement was so strong that he couldn't retain.
So not only has the liberal party lost significant ground, they've also lost their leader.
I think that's what shocked me the most.
Not so much the result of the election, but the fact that he lost his seat.
That is such a significant message, really, about what people think a hundred percent.
(08:19):
And voters don't want.
The divisiveness that we're seeing in the United States in Australia, and I think that's fair.
We are a different country.
We do politics differently, and I think we followed the trend more of what was observed in Canada.
Yeah, definitely.
I see alignments there.
(08:39):
On a more lighter note that sort of brand alignment with Voldemort really didn't work in his favor either.
Oh, Tanya Plibersek.
When she said that, it's, it stuck.
Stuck.
It stuck.
A few people were probably thinking it, but once it was said and the media got onto it, it, there was no reigning that back in.
No.
And what about the greens? The greens unfortunately lost ground whilst in the nationals to the populist vote.
(09:07):
They have gr ga gained ground.
The greens are set to lose their seats.
And one of the things I was surprised about, and it's what we discussed last week when we said it'd be really interesting to see what happens with the postal vote and the early polling, and.
It's Monday.
Today when we're recording this, we are actually seeing seats that were called for greens or teals independence now being back in play as the postal votes come in.
(09:35):
An example of that is Melbourne.
So on the night where we count the polling votes Yep.
Greens look to take it however the postal votes and the pre polls as they're coming in.
Are predominantly liberal labor and those preferences will bolster the popul vote, vote for labor, and therefore we could see Adam ban in the seat of Melbourne, lose his vote.
(09:59):
And it's the same for Ong.
They called that for Monique Ryan on the night.
However, the postal votes coming in are predominantly liberal voters and it's brought Kuong back into play, which is quite interesting.
Interesting and very last minute.
But in saying that, I mean, what does that say to you? I think we touched on it last week, but the kinds of people that do vote early.
(10:21):
Exactly.
And in our next election, that'll be taken into consideration in the modeling.
So when they are projecting, they're gonna be projecting the types of voter that do postal votes.
The second thing I wanted to touch on is it'll be really interesting to see, given how much of the population did early vote, what election days will look like going forward, will we have a more emphasis on encouraging people to vote early? An election day will get smaller and smaller, or will they tighten? Early voting back up and force people back to election day and that will have a big difference as well of how votes are sort of managed.
(10:58):
Yeah I really do think that they'll tighten the eligibility.
Just asking someone are you eligible with no follow up questions is means that really, it's a free for all.
Anyone could do it.
And I mean, democracy, like we have one of the best voting systems in the world.
We have compulsory voting, which is the great equalizer and it helps us maintain.
(11:18):
Centrist spectrum.
The other thing is that we have our preferential voting as well, so we have to do a lot to make sure that voting is accessible just based on the fact that it's compulsory.
Yes.
And one thing we haven't spoken about yet is the democracy sausage.
Oh, yes.
(11:38):
Did you have one on Saturday? I had two.
Oh, well done.
You had one for me.
I didn't.
Oh, $4.
Or $4 is each, supporting an awesome cause.
$4 is each, and where I had mine, it was like a 90 minute wait to vote.
So they had the most captive of audiences.
Oh yeah.
Going.
They made a roaring trade.
(11:59):
And boy, it was good.
And it's such a great tradition.
I love seeing people comment about it on TikTok and they're like, what? So Australians have to vote and then they get a sausage, like a hotdog, and you're like, no, it's a sausage.
Honestly, if it was legal, there'd be such a nice alignment there with Bunnings as an activation.
But anyway, did you see the Patruda advocate where they're just like Bunnings feeling threatened by Yes, I did see that They have barbecues and they're thinking about how they can take it back.
(12:27):
Yeah.
So now the election's done, then what's next steps? What can we expect over the coming weeks? So we will see Anthony Albanese form up his government.
He's gonna review his ministry and make sure that everyone that he wants to be in there is there.
He might promote some people, he might move people around.
Shuffle, just to recalibrate post the last time he established his.
(12:50):
Ministry.
We're also going to see some of the policies go into effect where we said the first policy he's gonna be enacting is the 20% reduction on hex, which is fabulous.
I think it's gonna give a lot of relief to a lot of young people without being inflationary.
Absolutely.
That's a significant one to start with.
Yes.
(13:10):
So really interested to see how that goes with voters, as I mentioned, is a one-off sugar hit at this stage.
So would be keen to see what other policies they might do in that student help debt space.
The second thing that we're gonna see post this is how labor will manage their majority government.
So they have done incredibly well in this election and in.
(13:34):
The previous labor government, they had to negotiate with the cross bench, which is like the independence.
Yeah.
Given that labor has so many, we might see them and the greens create a pact to vote together, and that will effectively reduce the requirement to negotiate with the, it could mean that labor will find it very easy to do things.
(13:57):
But it also means that the agendas of those independents or cross pensiones will be even more difficult.
So they're gonna be almost like a pseudo liberal party.
So really based on that, then we're probably gonna see a lot of change in the next coming years.
Hope so, like that is the benefit of being a majority government.
Yeah.
But the Senate will be a little bit more diverse as well.
(14:19):
So we have seen labor gain a lot of ground in that Senate, so it would be interesting to see, 'cause they're at the checks and balance of what the low house send up to them finally is the liberal party and they are gonna have to do some serious soul searching.
Well, this is gonna be interesting because I think they've really.
(14:40):
Having a brand identity crisis now, it's a loss of Top Doc.
It's not a brand identity crisis.
It's a knock down rebuild.
Totally.
It's a start again.
They have to start again, and I am so fascinated as to where they're gonna go if they double down and go further.
Right.
The liberal party might never form government again.
(15:01):
I do wonder.
If this is the time for us to see a centrist party pop up, like I wouldn't be surprised in the next three years if the TEALS band together to become a moderate liberal party.
Well, this is their opportunity now, if there is a time it is now for that.
We are seeing the liberal party.
(15:24):
Taking a few steps back by the time that they sort of sort out what they're doing, it does allow that regal room for those small parties to talk to each other more, and parties can form over time.
Absolutely.
So I think this is gonna be very interesting to see the direction they take it.
And given that a lot of the moderate liberals did lose their seat, what you're left with is that more conservative faction, and if they double down, it might drag them further.
(15:48):
So.
I think there's gonna be a lot to unpack over the next time as they do their postmortem and what's next? It will be quite interesting to see if there's any movement to create a new centrist party, given that the TEALS have kind of said, no, we're independent.
We'll never do that.
However, there is a gap.
There is a gap.
There's different levers that they can look to pull on to tap into the people that are there and searching for.
(16:15):
Another alignment, a party alignment.
Yeah, absolutely.
A quick legal note before we dive in.
Erin Patterson's trial is still underway in Victoria.
She has pleaded not guilty and remains presumed innocent.
We're only summarizing evidence heard in open court and reputable news.
This is commentary, not news, facts or verdict calling if you're a juror, witness or otherwise involved in the case.
(16:40):
Please stop listening now and return after the trial ends.
Okay, gab, it is time to give you an update on the Erin Patterson trial.
I can't wait.
It has been on my mind every day for the last week.
There is a lot happening at the moment, like through the election, the Brookie Bake house, plagiarism allegations, the mushroom lady.
(17:06):
Conclave, like I can't keep up.
There is actually a lot at the moment.
It's, we're sport for choice.
Really? Yes.
So we are on day four of the trial.
On Tuesday, the jury we're imp paneled and they were told that they're gonna be sequestered, so they're gonna be staying in the hotel.
I love that.
I wish we, we'll never find out, but I wanna know what goes on during the question, like what activities they do whilst they're.
(17:30):
Or whether other you locked up.
You've got no phones or anything, right? So you just No, they get phones, I think, I don't know if you can use them, but like when they're in the hotels, they can just hang out together.
Oh, okay.
There go imagine the friendships you've gonna form.
I'll be intense.
Mm-hmm.
So Tuesday they were empaneled Wednesday.
We had the prosecution and the defense present their cases and that's where we learnt.
(17:51):
The layout of how the prosecution will be presenting and then the defense provided their view on what's happened.
Yep.
And what we do know so far is that Erin has acknowledged that she did forage for mushrooms.
Okay.
(18:11):
So she did forage.
She has confirmed that she did forage for mushrooms.
And just to clarify with you, am I right in saying originally.
Said she not, she said it was from Agro, an Asian grocer, correct? Mm-hmm.
Initially that the mushrooms were fresh and dried and purchased from elsewhere.
(18:32):
Yep.
We also learned that the prosecution is going to be alleging murderous intent in that a poisonous meal was served to the guests that attended.
The defense is saying, this is a terrible accident.
Big difference.
(18:52):
Big difference.
And it is up to the prosecution to present a case that packages together all the views that would allow a jury to make a decision.
Okay.
So they presented their cases? Mm-hmm.
And what happened after that? So after they presented the case, they had their first witness called, and that was.
(19:20):
Erin Patterson's former partner.
Simon.
Former husband.
Former husband, yes.
Okay.
Separated.
They're now separated.
They've had a tumultuous relationship, so we learnt a bit about how they met, what their relationship was like, how did they meet? They met working together at the council.
There you go.
We learn that Erin financially was quite comfortable that she had inheritance and that she made a subsequent amount of financial property investments from that, and that Erin was also very generous with her money.
(19:54):
Okay.
So it sounds like money traditionally hasn't been a problem in her life.
Not for Erin.
Yeah.
And by all regards, that leading up to a point where Simon claimed a tax return.
As being single.
They were on very good terms, very amicable.
And they were known to be back and forth.
(20:14):
Yes.
So he, and this was his most recent tax return before the incidents in 2023, I believe is when, and he listed no 2022.
'cause the murders occurred in two, the alleged murders happened in 2023.
And he listed himself as separated, which, what does that signify? It caused Erin to say, if we're going to be separated, we need to formalize this and I need to be receiving child support.
(20:43):
And just because you separate doesn't mean that you might necessarily need a formal child support arrangement.
It opens up the option.
Yeah, it opens up the option.
Okay.
And did she, and she, did we, do we know if she did file for that or we dunno yet? No, no.
Not relevant.
Probably at this point, yes.
Okay.
Over the coming weeks, we're gonna hear from more witnesses, but so far what we know is that different crockery was used by Erin versus her guests.
(21:12):
Erin served herself on a beige slash orange plate, and the other guests off eight off larger gray plates.
Now that's interesting.
There's different ways you can take a look at it.
Like Absolutely.
Crockery often comes in a fort, but.
It does.
It does and I think, you know, when you're hosting as well you've probably think of yourself last that you could take it that way as well, potentially.
(21:40):
We also know that Erin did not regularly host, so this meal, she said in the lead up was quite involved and was a long time in the planning.
We also know that visits to mush, death cap mushroom locations.
Were identified through mobile phone data that correlated to reports on the mushroom website.
(22:05):
That is all the information we have so far.
We don't know what that means in terms of Erin's personal search history.
Okay.
There was also one thing that we do know of, which is the nature of why everyone came together for that meal.
Correct.
So Erin alleged that she had health concerns that she had ovarian cancer, and she wanted advice on how to communicate that to her children.
(22:28):
Yes.
And from what I understand, correct me, is that diagnosis did not exist.
That is what's been alleged.
And also the defense has acknowledged that Erin has not been forwardly truthful with her health.
Okay? There is a lot happening with this case.
We're gonna heal from a number of witnesses.
(22:48):
So Simon concluded his testimony today, Monday afternoon and was released.
We know that there was many text messages going back and forth, and it'll be really interesting to see what comes next and why the prosecution led with Simon.
Yes.
And one thing I did wanna touch on before we finish is the previous instances where Simon had visited for a meal at her house prior to this occasion.
(23:21):
Mm-hmm.
I think it's probably worth talking about that.
Yes.
So one thing we will call out is that the attempted murder charges that were laid against Erin for her husband Simon, have been dropped and the jury have been instructed to disregard and pretend like they never happened.
There you go.
Big couple of days.
(23:42):
It has been a big couple of days.
Something I think it's worth mentioning is this trial is probably the biggest thing that's ever happened to Morwell.
Oh, it is, it has to be, it puts more well on the map and hopefully, for good reasons and more people interested in visiting the area.
I think that a lot of the hotels are filled up at the moment and there are a lot more people frequenting the area whilst this is all happening.
(24:06):
Good cash injection for the community.
A hundred percent.
I have a friend who's a news reporter and she said that their journalist been booked in for five to six weeks.
And number of members of the public out of interest have been traveling to Morwell.
Wow.
We will continue covering the case as it unfolds, and we will also post the trial.
(24:29):
We'll do a bit of a breakdown.
Yes, we will.
What I wanna talk about next, Claire, is these allegations against Brooke's Bake House and her cookbook.
Oh, yes.
This has been big.
Yeah, because it's plagiarized recipes from Recipe Tin Eats author Na Gie.
(24:55):
Yes.
Which we love.
I honestly use NA's recipes all the time, every night.
Recipes are excellent.
It's got something for everything and they're free.
Share Hass video.
She operates a food bank.
Like this is a wonderful, beautiful human.
Absolutely.
And I think her coming forward and speaking about this it's not something done lightly.
(25:18):
No.
And I think she said, it's not, she's not, do you know she's got nothing to get outta this, but it's not just her.
And she wants, it's the right thing to do from her perspective.
I did see an article where Nagi said, had I been asked if she could use my recipe? I would've happily said yes.
Oh, but it's that you didn't ask.
(25:40):
Oh, and she's a good human.
The cookbook by Brooke has sold over 4 million copies and is one of the most successful Outta Penguin recently.
Like this is Belle Gibson 2.0.
I was gonna say does, isn't this sound familiar? And for context, when it comes to IP law and recipes.
(26:01):
Recipes themselves can't actually be protected under copyright.
Really? No, they can't.
However, and I think this is where it comes into tone of voice and your brand, but specific expression, so the structure, the way you do the instructions the way you use language is what can be protected.
So it's not, it's almost, it's not the functionality, but it's how you deliver it essentially.
(26:27):
That's pretty clear.
And you're probably thinking, oh, I'm sure a brownie recipe is quite similar to the next maybe.
In this case, some recipes put side by side are identical.
They were absolutely identical.
Copy and pasted.
Yes.
And just a few little minor tweaks done.
(26:48):
It's like they just got chucked into chat GPT to say, I don't even, I don't even think it got put through chat GPT.
Do you know what I mean? They could have changed it up a bit.
Totally.
I think, if you really, I, it's almost like.
There was this confidence that it would not be picked up because I think if you really wanted to do this properly, you could there are certainly enough AI and resources out there to help you change something enough to not be identifiable.
(27:14):
I'm sure you could ask chat GBTs to create new structure to make sure it's not identifiable as the other.
Yes.
So that's what's been the talk the last few days.
I saw this and I just, oh, it made me really mad because for someone to take someone's free content and make money off that, I really hope that in Brook's defense, she used a ghost writer has said anything about it.
(27:43):
That's probably one thing I haven't seen too much of yet.
Oh, she came out and said.
I have been making caramel slice since 2016.
Here is a photo where you can see caramel slice in the background.
Oh, it doesn't mean anything.
That's nothing.
Yeah.
I have a caramel slice recipe that's probably from the Australian Women's Weekly, who knows? Not looking good.
(28:03):
Because one thing we do need to think about is who is accountable.
It would be a blessing if she did have a ghost rider because there would be some accountability there.
Then Penguin goes, Hey, ghost Rider.
What, so what's going on? But then doesn't Penguin have a responsibility to ensure that before they publish it is original work? I think that's interesting you say that.
(28:27):
'cause if we could really say that about a lot of organizations, legal teams probably do check of if there are any flags or if there's any risk in publishing content, but do they actually check from a plagiarism perspective like the universities do? Yes.
I'm not sure.
Why don't they use the similar programs? Do you remember, I think we're towards the end of my uni sort of putting you through your assignments through that plagiarism thing.
(28:55):
But you would think a publisher would do something similar? Yes, we used turn it in, which Yes, turn it in.
Yes.
We had that at the end of our MBA.
I used it a little bit in my undergrad.
That was a long time ago, but we had it a little bit at.
Melbourne Business School.
I think, and this is a side note, but I think programs like that are particularly becoming a bigger thing for kids in high school who, God forbid they write something with a pen.
(29:20):
Yes.
But they raised on the laptops.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
From Penguin surely can afford this kind of software.
Yes.
But also it's maybe a you don't wanna know what you don't wanna know.
Yes, possibly.
And obviously with 4 million copies sold, they've really benefited from the success of that book.
(29:41):
And it is very similar to the Bell Gibson case from what it's what we can see at this point.
So I'm sure we'll be talking about this as we find out more, but for the moment, I think Nagis built herself such a strong brand and her the way that she does her recipes and how she, she bakes things 20 times before she actually confirms what her recipe is.
(30:05):
She's quite authentic and real that I think people trust her when she says, Hey, I, these are mine.
I think this is made like I.
Wanna go out and buy Nargis cookbook? Me too.
I've been engaging with her content and I love the fact that when she posts her video, if it's not her recipe, she said, Hey, you guys keep asking me about how to make the best beef in Black bean.
(30:27):
So I've asked someone who knows way better than me, and she had that person cooking with her.
Oh wow.
So she does it the right way.
She does do it the right way.
She's not taking credit for what other people are creating.
There I'm not.
I'm definitely not hearing any chatter or backlash on her coming out about this, which I think is interesting.
I know, and it just comes down to the bottom line.
(30:48):
If it's not yours, don't profit off it.
I know.
What's with these Aussies? I know, but in conclusion, I think Brooke's reputation is damaged and then it's raising additional questions about influencer publishing and their integrity.
It really does.
(31:19):
One other thing I wanted to talk to you about, Claire, as I've been scrolling on TikTok, particularly on my on my work travel site at night, whilst I'm in my hotel room enjoying my room service is this new trend that we're seeing where people are turning to GoFundMe or TikTok or Instagram to pay for IVF treatment cancer treatment chronic illness, basically healthcare as well as legal support.
(31:45):
It's just really interesting from a perspective of what does that say about the system if people go into those lengths.
But also I guess the power of social media in the sense, so if you picture through this.
You're going on TikTok, you're, it's either dance content routines that people are doing really interesting recipes.
(32:08):
You name it.
And then all of a sudden you're scrolling and you land on someone that's just saying to camera, Hey, I've got this life threatening disease.
Please, if you are if you are serious about helping people, you're gonna wait 60 seconds and that's gonna help support me.
And so that's what I found myself, that in that algorithm the last few days and it is gaining traction.
(32:31):
And people are really just opening up about their struggles, which I think's quite vulnerable and you'd think that there'd be backlash.
But I'm looking at these comments and it's just overwhelming support.
If they're not asking for money, they're saying, the way you support me is watch my video.
Then TikTok will pay me.
Yeah, in Australia we don't have a creative fund for TikTok, but there are ways that you can definitely generate revenue from ads.
(32:56):
So in YouTube and that by posting that, or it could be getting their engagement so that they could get sponsored.
Exactly right.
And I think particularly what I'm seeing on TikTok is if you've reached 60 seconds, you're rewarded based on engagement.
So when I look at, a lot of these I think I said before is about healthcare, but with the cost of a lot of essential services so high.
(33:21):
For example, IVF treatments typically you're looking at about $6,000 out of pocket per cycle.
And then cancer treatments, ranging from a few hundred to over $10,000 really, depending on the type.
And then adding to that, if you are seeking legal fees not only is that mentally daunting, you're looking at hourly weight rates and then, $1,200 potentially per hour.
(33:47):
It's just really becoming a.
Something that only privileged people can really afford mm-hmm.
I'm looking at this going, it's kind of genius.
I dunno how long it's gonna last for, but I think it's something to watch and it I think there's some beauty in people supporting people.
We are in a cost of living crisis, so providing support to people in those needs for many is becoming discretionary.
(34:09):
When it previously might have just been an act, a natural act of what they did.
60 seconds of my time, I can do that.
But I might not be able to give you $10.
Yeah, exactly.
I also think about, when people are asking for coins, it's the power of technology, right? If there's someone seeking a coin, you go, I don't have cash.
That's no excuse anymore because a lot of the time you can tap now.
(34:32):
Mm-hmm.
They've got the facilities to do that.
But particularly with this, I thought it's quite interesting.
Not a lot of times going in the content made.
They're literally just pressing record.
Talking about their story and it's benefiting them financially.
And so I wondered why these unpolished videos are resonating.
We're obviously in a digital age that's dominated by curated content, influencer lifestyles, and.
(34:58):
Raw appeals like this probably does cut through 'cause it's so different.
It gives you a glimpse into those real lives and I think it just shows that there is some power in authenticity over polish.
Mm-hmm.
And empathy, driving engagement.
These are really fundamental things from my perspective as a marketer that you want to leverage when you're developing content.
(35:20):
But, and also because in the sense of you might not reach a lot of people in the sense that it's hundreds and thousands of people, even though I'm seeing that they are, but you're reaching an engaged cohort of people.
So it's that kind of micro influencing, so it's just, it's inspiring in the sense that.
It's really disrupting and the logic and I guess the algorithms intention.
(35:44):
They really, yeah, I'm quite impressed by it.
I dunno how I landed on this space on TikTok, but I'll continue to watch these 62nd videos when they do pop up and support the people that need it.
I love that.
All right, gab.
I think that's all we've got time for.
So whether it's swing voters deciding to get the lead or swinging public sentiment in a true crime trial this week showed us just how much power narrative holds.
(36:11):
And just a reminder, if you're foraging for mushrooms this weekend.
Take a friend who doesn't own a dehydrator or Claire's mom.
Yeah, we'll be back next week unless Gab ends up in another legal drama of her own.
We'll catch you next time.
Bye bye.
So Claire, I need to open this episode with a bit of a confession, and that is that I went mushroom foraging on the weekend in the Matson Ranges.
Why'd you do that? Well, why? I mean like, oh, what have we learned? Look, I obviously, it's quite timely with everything going on.
(00:24):
With this Erin Patterson case, but it was on the agenda regardless.
I was actually supposed to do it a few weekends ago, but I was curious, are mushrooms easily to find and like what kind of mushrooms are around? And yeah.
It was a very successful trip in a sense of finding a lot of variation in the mushrooms.
(00:45):
And I took heaps of photos, which I think I've sent you a few.
Have you eaten any of the mushrooms? No.
So I guess the one thing is there was plenty of them, however, there was no, from what I mean, I'm not an expert.
According to chat chip tea, do not eat a mushroom unless you are an expert and you know how to identify them.
(01:06):
So you went on a mushroom observation tour.
Well, you didn't pick anything.
No, the intent was actually to find field mushrooms or I think there's, they're called, I wanna say dairy milk milk cap.
Yeah.
They're edible ones.
Yeah.
We just call them field mushrooms.
Found none of those.
So I think Coron and I were the last ones to the party, but there were so many other ones that absolutely looked poisonous.
(01:28):
I've been Googling a lot of them.
Some of them, honestly, I think were death cap mushrooms and if that's the case.
They are very easy to find.
That was my first.
Foraging experience.
Oh God.
We need to get my mom on the mission.
She's really good at this, apparently.
Okay.
She said she's like, I know how to pick mushrooms, so maybe we just need to, you need to take, go.
(01:49):
Maybe next time I'll take your mom.
But it was really fun.
Alright, well, on today's episode, we are covering the election fallout and the farewell of Peter Dutton, A mushroom lady update.
A flaky plagiarism scandal involving caramel slice and the rising trend of people turning to social media to pay for their healthcare.
(02:26):
Welcome to Spin Cycle.
Where we dig into the story shaping the world and take a closer look at the patterns, power plays and yes, the biases, hiding in plain sight where Gab and Claire, two friends with MBAs.
A lot of opinions and a healthy amount of skepticism.
We are here to help you think twice and maybe have a few laughs.
Let's get spinning.
But first Gab, what is top of mind for you this week? Look, there's a few things top of mind for me this week.
(02:51):
Last week I traveled for work for a few days.
Yeah, which.
I haven't done that for a few months.
And you know what? Sometimes it is nice to go travel by yourself, get room service in the room and Yeah.
And do that whole thing like spread out in the bed, get your room service to eat your food in your bed.
Yeah, that is, use all the towels and totally use all the facilities in that room.
(03:12):
And that was great.
But what I didn't enjoy, and this is such a first world problem, but both ways on the plane, I was in the middle seat.
What did you do to offend the person that booked your travel? Well, look, I honestly, I try that that, that this is, that is punishment.
Someone, I don't know what I did in the previous life, but someone up there is not happy with me because I went and tried to change it.
(03:38):
I think it's because I booked the travel quite last minute.
Mm-hmm.
But usually, there's one seat or another, like an aisle or window somewhere on the plane.
Yeah.
So on the way there was Okay.
But on the way back.
I was between two like tall, large men.
And it's that.
I'm usually that person.
I'm the that polite person who keeps my elbows on the inside of the armrest because I'm a nice person.
(04:04):
But the rule is if you are in the middle seat, you get the armrest.
Well, guess what? I got none.
I got none.
My arms were, my elbows were at my waist.
Uh, they had the armrest, but also, mind you, I was coming from Perth.
It was 30 degrees.
For some weird reason they must live in Perth.
They both had the most warmest, woolen jumpers on and they were huge.
(04:26):
So they were radiating heat.
And also, I know this is horrible to say I feel bad, but it.
I was on a virgin flight and there was no screen or anything.
And then I started feeling sick, so I was like, I can't even listen to anything.
So I raw dobbed it and I had my eyes closed.
Everyone knows what that means, I hope.
(04:46):
But yeah, eyes closed.
Nothing going on in my ears.
Just trying to focus, drinking the, the free water.
And so I think I'm, Friday night was a bit of a nothing for me 'cause I was just recovering from that.
That sounds like actually a torture.
What about you? What's what's been on your mind? I was actually just thinking recently I got my first pair of Birkenstocks and Oh as an adult.
(05:09):
'cause obviously as an adult.
Yeah.
And they are so comfortable.
I like knock them for ages.
And then 'cause all the Pilate girlies at where I go, they all wear Birkenstocks with their Pilate stocks.
And I thought it was really cute.
So I, is this, are these the ones that are closed toe? No, these are open, but so super comfy shoes and on Saturday I work to the election and it's a huge day.
(05:31):
It's like a 17, 18 hour day.
It's a long day.
And I wanted optimum comfort, so I took like a pair of runners and my BS with me.
I ended up deciding to keep the berks on 'cause they're so comfortable.
But then I was like, will really optimize my experience right now.
What if I put on a pair of cruise socks? Oh no.
Take the entire 18 hours wearing berks and socks.
(05:54):
And you know what? I was really comfortable.
Okay, can you just help slow this to me because the berks that I know have a little.
Like G-string for your toe? No, no, these are just like straight across.
They're like slides.
Oh, I was gonna say, how are you doing this with socks? Did you bring back the toe socks? This, I was gonna say this outfit is like a return to 2004.
Look.
(06:15):
At the end of the day, people just wanted to vote.
They didn't care what I was wearing on my feet, but I was, it sounds comfort.
So comfortable.
To be honest.
They sound cute.
You're gonna have to show me a photo the next time I see someone with BS and Socks.
It's more like so solidarity.
It's like they are comfort people and I get that.
Watch me buy some now.
After a five week campaign, we have finally got the outcome of this year's federal election, and it was a labor landslide, and it was one of those ones where no one saw it coming weeks ago.
(06:46):
We said if it was a minority government, labor would be doing well.
They have.
Gained so much more ground than what they started with, which was insane.
Yeah.
And which is baffling to me because I, as we've spoken about in previous episodes, the campaigns have been pretty meh.
I, you would think that with these kind of results, something really extravagant would've been behind it.
(07:09):
But what do you think and what's your perspective on what has caused this massive shift Trump.
Trumpian Politics, Australia regret rejecting Trumpian politics.
The I believe, is that voters wanted to keep the status quo knowing that there's so much uncertainty from Trump ahead.
The, it's mostly Justin's alignment has really, the devil you know, is better than the devil.
(07:32):
You don't know Yeah.
And this election, by all regards has been.
A referendum to reject or say no to Peter Dutton and his Trump style politics.
And if you asked me a week or two ago, du Peter Dutton loses his seat in Dixon, I'd have been like, nah, he's got that in the bag.
He's held it for so long.
(07:55):
But unfortunately he couldn't.
The voter.
Movement was so strong that he couldn't retain.
So not only has the liberal party lost significant ground, they've also lost their leader.
I think that's what shocked me the most.
Not so much the result of the election, but the fact that he lost his seat.
That is such a significant message, really, about what people think a hundred percent.
(08:19):
And voters don't want.
The divisiveness that we're seeing in the United States in Australia, and I think that's fair.
We are a different country.
We do politics differently, and I think we followed the trend more of what was observed in Canada.
Yeah, definitely.
I see alignments there.
(08:39):
On a more lighter note that sort of brand alignment with Voldemort really didn't work in his favor either.
Oh, Tanya Plibersek.
When she said that, it's, it stuck.
Stuck.
It stuck.
A few people were probably thinking it, but once it was said and the media got onto it, it, there was no reigning that back in.
No.
And what about the greens? The greens unfortunately lost ground whilst in the nationals to the populist vote.
(09:07):
They have gr ga gained ground.
The greens are set to lose their seats.
And one of the things I was surprised about, and it's what we discussed last week when we said it'd be really interesting to see what happens with the postal vote and the early polling, and.
It's Monday.
Today when we're recording this, we are actually seeing seats that were called for greens or teals independence now being back in play as the postal votes come in.
(09:35):
An example of that is Melbourne.
So on the night where we count the polling votes Yep.
Greens look to take it however the postal votes and the pre polls as they're coming in.
Are predominantly liberal labor and those preferences will bolster the popul vote, vote for labor, and therefore we could see Adam ban in the seat of Melbourne, lose his vote.
(09:59):
And it's the same for Ong.
They called that for Monique Ryan on the night.
However, the postal votes coming in are predominantly liberal voters and it's brought Kuong back into play, which is quite interesting.
Interesting and very last minute.
But in saying that, I mean, what does that say to you? I think we touched on it last week, but the kinds of people that do vote early.
(10:21):
Exactly.
And in our next election, that'll be taken into consideration in the modeling.
So when they are projecting, they're gonna be projecting the types of voter that do postal votes.
The second thing I wanted to touch on is it'll be really interesting to see, given how much of the population did early vote, what election days will look like going forward, will we have a more emphasis on encouraging people to vote early? An election day will get smaller and smaller, or will they tighten? Early voting back up and force people back to election day and that will have a big difference as well of how votes are sort of managed.
(10:58):
Yeah I really do think that they'll tighten the eligibility.
Just asking someone are you eligible with no follow up questions is means that really, it's a free for all.
Anyone could do it.
And I mean, democracy, like we have one of the best voting systems in the world.
We have compulsory voting, which is the great equalizer and it helps us maintain.
(11:18):
Centrist spectrum.
The other thing is that we have our preferential voting as well, so we have to do a lot to make sure that voting is accessible just based on the fact that it's compulsory.
Yes.
And one thing we haven't spoken about yet is the democracy sausage.
Oh, yes.
(11:38):
Did you have one on Saturday? I had two.
Oh, well done.
You had one for me.
I didn't.
Oh, $4.
Or $4 is each, supporting an awesome cause.
$4 is each, and where I had mine, it was like a 90 minute wait to vote.
So they had the most captive of audiences.
Oh yeah.
Going.
They made a roaring trade.
(11:59):
And boy, it was good.
And it's such a great tradition.
I love seeing people comment about it on TikTok and they're like, what? So Australians have to vote and then they get a sausage, like a hotdog, and you're like, no, it's a sausage.
Honestly, if it was legal, there'd be such a nice alignment there with Bunnings as an activation.
But anyway, did you see the Patruda advocate where they're just like Bunnings feeling threatened by Yes, I did see that They have barbecues and they're thinking about how they can take it back.
(12:27):
Yeah.
So now the election's done, then what's next steps? What can we expect over the coming weeks? So we will see Anthony Albanese form up his government.
He's gonna review his ministry and make sure that everyone that he wants to be in there is there.
He might promote some people, he might move people around.
Shuffle, just to recalibrate post the last time he established his.
(12:50):
Ministry.
We're also going to see some of the policies go into effect where we said the first policy he's gonna be enacting is the 20% reduction on hex, which is fabulous.
I think it's gonna give a lot of relief to a lot of young people without being inflationary.
Absolutely.
That's a significant one to start with.
Yes.
(13:10):
So really interested to see how that goes with voters, as I mentioned, is a one-off sugar hit at this stage.
So would be keen to see what other policies they might do in that student help debt space.
The second thing that we're gonna see post this is how labor will manage their majority government.
So they have done incredibly well in this election and in.
(13:34):
The previous labor government, they had to negotiate with the cross bench, which is like the independence.
Yeah.
Given that labor has so many, we might see them and the greens create a pact to vote together, and that will effectively reduce the requirement to negotiate with the, it could mean that labor will find it very easy to do things.
(13:57):
But it also means that the agendas of those independents or cross pensiones will be even more difficult.
So they're gonna be almost like a pseudo liberal party.
So really based on that, then we're probably gonna see a lot of change in the next coming years.
Hope so, like that is the benefit of being a majority government.
Yeah.
But the Senate will be a little bit more diverse as well.
(14:19):
So we have seen labor gain a lot of ground in that Senate, so it would be interesting to see, 'cause they're at the checks and balance of what the low house send up to them finally is the liberal party and they are gonna have to do some serious soul searching.
Well, this is gonna be interesting because I think they've really.
(14:40):
Having a brand identity crisis now, it's a loss of Top Doc.
It's not a brand identity crisis.
It's a knock down rebuild.
Totally.
It's a start again.
They have to start again, and I am so fascinated as to where they're gonna go if they double down and go further.
Right.
The liberal party might never form government again.
(15:01):
I do wonder.
If this is the time for us to see a centrist party pop up, like I wouldn't be surprised in the next three years if the TEALS band together to become a moderate liberal party.
Well, this is their opportunity now, if there is a time it is now for that.
We are seeing the liberal party.
(15:24):
Taking a few steps back by the time that they sort of sort out what they're doing, it does allow that regal room for those small parties to talk to each other more, and parties can form over time.
Absolutely.
So I think this is gonna be very interesting to see the direction they take it.
And given that a lot of the moderate liberals did lose their seat, what you're left with is that more conservative faction, and if they double down, it might drag them further.
(15:48):
So.
I think there's gonna be a lot to unpack over the next time as they do their postmortem and what's next? It will be quite interesting to see if there's any movement to create a new centrist party, given that the TEALS have kind of said, no, we're independent.
We'll never do that.
However, there is a gap.
There is a gap.
There's different levers that they can look to pull on to tap into the people that are there and searching for.
(16:15):
Another alignment, a party alignment.
Yeah, absolutely.
A quick legal note before we dive in.
Erin Patterson's trial is still underway in Victoria.
She has pleaded not guilty and remains presumed innocent.
We're only summarizing evidence heard in open court and reputable news.
This is commentary, not news, facts or verdict calling if you're a juror, witness or otherwise involved in the case.
(16:40):
Please stop listening now and return after the trial ends.
Okay, gab, it is time to give you an update on the Erin Patterson trial.
I can't wait.
It has been on my mind every day for the last week.
There is a lot happening at the moment, like through the election, the Brookie Bake house, plagiarism allegations, the mushroom lady.
(17:06):
Conclave, like I can't keep up.
There is actually a lot at the moment.
It's, we're sport for choice.
Really? Yes.
So we are on day four of the trial.
On Tuesday, the jury we're imp paneled and they were told that they're gonna be sequestered, so they're gonna be staying in the hotel.
I love that.
I wish we, we'll never find out, but I wanna know what goes on during the question, like what activities they do whilst they're.
(17:30):
Or whether other you locked up.
You've got no phones or anything, right? So you just No, they get phones, I think, I don't know if you can use them, but like when they're in the hotels, they can just hang out together.
Oh, okay.
There go imagine the friendships you've gonna form.
I'll be intense.
Mm-hmm.
So Tuesday they were empaneled Wednesday.
We had the prosecution and the defense present their cases and that's where we learnt.
(17:51):
The layout of how the prosecution will be presenting and then the defense provided their view on what's happened.
Yep.
And what we do know so far is that Erin has acknowledged that she did forage for mushrooms.
Okay.
(18:11):
So she did forage.
She has confirmed that she did forage for mushrooms.
And just to clarify with you, am I right in saying originally.
Said she not, she said it was from Agro, an Asian grocer, correct? Mm-hmm.
Initially that the mushrooms were fresh and dried and purchased from elsewhere.
(18:32):
Yep.
We also learned that the prosecution is going to be alleging murderous intent in that a poisonous meal was served to the guests that attended.
The defense is saying, this is a terrible accident.
Big difference.
(18:52):
Big difference.
And it is up to the prosecution to present a case that packages together all the views that would allow a jury to make a decision.
Okay.
So they presented their cases? Mm-hmm.
And what happened after that? So after they presented the case, they had their first witness called, and that was.
(19:20):
Erin Patterson's former partner.
Simon.
Former husband.
Former husband, yes.
Okay.
Separated.
They're now separated.
They've had a tumultuous relationship, so we learnt a bit about how they met, what their relationship was like, how did they meet? They met working together at the council.
There you go.
We learn that Erin financially was quite comfortable that she had inheritance and that she made a subsequent amount of financial property investments from that, and that Erin was also very generous with her money.
(19:54):
Okay.
So it sounds like money traditionally hasn't been a problem in her life.
Not for Erin.
Yeah.
And by all regards, that leading up to a point where Simon claimed a tax return.
As being single.
They were on very good terms, very amicable.
And they were known to be back and forth.
(20:14):
Yes.
So he, and this was his most recent tax return before the incidents in 2023, I believe is when, and he listed no 2022.
'cause the murders occurred in two, the alleged murders happened in 2023.
And he listed himself as separated, which, what does that signify? It caused Erin to say, if we're going to be separated, we need to formalize this and I need to be receiving child support.
(20:43):
And just because you separate doesn't mean that you might necessarily need a formal child support arrangement.
It opens up the option.
Yeah, it opens up the option.
Okay.
And did she, and she, did we, do we know if she did file for that or we dunno yet? No, no.
Not relevant.
Probably at this point, yes.
Okay.
Over the coming weeks, we're gonna hear from more witnesses, but so far what we know is that different crockery was used by Erin versus her guests.
(21:12):
Erin served herself on a beige slash orange plate, and the other guests off eight off larger gray plates.
Now that's interesting.
There's different ways you can take a look at it.
Like Absolutely.
Crockery often comes in a fort, but.
It does.
It does and I think, you know, when you're hosting as well you've probably think of yourself last that you could take it that way as well, potentially.
(21:40):
We also know that Erin did not regularly host, so this meal, she said in the lead up was quite involved and was a long time in the planning.
We also know that visits to mush, death cap mushroom locations.
Were identified through mobile phone data that correlated to reports on the mushroom website.
(22:05):
That is all the information we have so far.
We don't know what that means in terms of Erin's personal search history.
Okay.
There was also one thing that we do know of, which is the nature of why everyone came together for that meal.
Correct.
So Erin alleged that she had health concerns that she had ovarian cancer, and she wanted advice on how to communicate that to her children.
(22:28):
Yes.
And from what I understand, correct me, is that diagnosis did not exist.
That is what's been alleged.
And also the defense has acknowledged that Erin has not been forwardly truthful with her health.
Okay? There is a lot happening with this case.
We're gonna heal from a number of witnesses.
(22:48):
So Simon concluded his testimony today, Monday afternoon and was released.
We know that there was many text messages going back and forth, and it'll be really interesting to see what comes next and why the prosecution led with Simon.
Yes.
And one thing I did wanna touch on before we finish is the previous instances where Simon had visited for a meal at her house prior to this occasion.
(23:21):
Mm-hmm.
I think it's probably worth talking about that.
Yes.
So one thing we will call out is that the attempted murder charges that were laid against Erin for her husband Simon, have been dropped and the jury have been instructed to disregard and pretend like they never happened.
There you go.
Big couple of days.
(23:42):
It has been a big couple of days.
Something I think it's worth mentioning is this trial is probably the biggest thing that's ever happened to Morwell.
Oh, it is, it has to be, it puts more well on the map and hopefully, for good reasons and more people interested in visiting the area.
I think that a lot of the hotels are filled up at the moment and there are a lot more people frequenting the area whilst this is all happening.
(24:06):
Good cash injection for the community.
A hundred percent.
I have a friend who's a news reporter and she said that their journalist been booked in for five to six weeks.
And number of members of the public out of interest have been traveling to Morwell.
Wow.
We will continue covering the case as it unfolds, and we will also post the trial.
(24:29):
We'll do a bit of a breakdown.
Yes, we will.
What I wanna talk about next, Claire, is these allegations against Brooke's Bake House and her cookbook.
Oh, yes.
This has been big.
Yeah, because it's plagiarized recipes from Recipe Tin Eats author Na Gie.
(24:55):
Yes.
Which we love.
I honestly use NA's recipes all the time, every night.
Recipes are excellent.
It's got something for everything and they're free.
Share Hass video.
She operates a food bank.
Like this is a wonderful, beautiful human.
Absolutely.
And I think her coming forward and speaking about this it's not something done lightly.
(25:18):
No.
And I think she said, it's not, she's not, do you know she's got nothing to get outta this, but it's not just her.
And she wants, it's the right thing to do from her perspective.
I did see an article where Nagi said, had I been asked if she could use my recipe? I would've happily said yes.
Oh, but it's that you didn't ask.
(25:40):
Oh, and she's a good human.
The cookbook by Brooke has sold over 4 million copies and is one of the most successful Outta Penguin recently.
Like this is Belle Gibson 2.0.
I was gonna say does, isn't this sound familiar? And for context, when it comes to IP law and recipes.
(26:01):
Recipes themselves can't actually be protected under copyright.
Really? No, they can't.
However, and I think this is where it comes into tone of voice and your brand, but specific expression, so the structure, the way you do the instructions the way you use language is what can be protected.
So it's not, it's almost, it's not the functionality, but it's how you deliver it essentially.
(26:27):
That's pretty clear.
And you're probably thinking, oh, I'm sure a brownie recipe is quite similar to the next maybe.
In this case, some recipes put side by side are identical.
They were absolutely identical.
Copy and pasted.
Yes.
And just a few little minor tweaks done.
(26:48):
It's like they just got chucked into chat GPT to say, I don't even, I don't even think it got put through chat GPT.
Do you know what I mean? They could have changed it up a bit.
Totally.
I think, if you really, I, it's almost like.
There was this confidence that it would not be picked up because I think if you really wanted to do this properly, you could there are certainly enough AI and resources out there to help you change something enough to not be identifiable.
(27:14):
I'm sure you could ask chat GBTs to create new structure to make sure it's not identifiable as the other.
Yes.
So that's what's been the talk the last few days.
I saw this and I just, oh, it made me really mad because for someone to take someone's free content and make money off that, I really hope that in Brook's defense, she used a ghost writer has said anything about it.
(27:43):
That's probably one thing I haven't seen too much of yet.
Oh, she came out and said.
I have been making caramel slice since 2016.
Here is a photo where you can see caramel slice in the background.
Oh, it doesn't mean anything.
That's nothing.
Yeah.
I have a caramel slice recipe that's probably from the Australian Women's Weekly, who knows? Not looking good.
(28:03):
Because one thing we do need to think about is who is accountable.
It would be a blessing if she did have a ghost rider because there would be some accountability there.
Then Penguin goes, Hey, ghost Rider.
What, so what's going on? But then doesn't Penguin have a responsibility to ensure that before they publish it is original work? I think that's interesting you say that.
(28:27):
'cause if we could really say that about a lot of organizations, legal teams probably do check of if there are any flags or if there's any risk in publishing content, but do they actually check from a plagiarism perspective like the universities do? Yes.
I'm not sure.
Why don't they use the similar programs? Do you remember, I think we're towards the end of my uni sort of putting you through your assignments through that plagiarism thing.
(28:55):
But you would think a publisher would do something similar? Yes, we used turn it in, which Yes, turn it in.
Yes.
We had that at the end of our MBA.
I used it a little bit in my undergrad.
That was a long time ago, but we had it a little bit at.
Melbourne Business School.
I think, and this is a side note, but I think programs like that are particularly becoming a bigger thing for kids in high school who, God forbid they write something with a pen.
(29:20):
Yes.
But they raised on the laptops.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
From Penguin surely can afford this kind of software.
Yes.
But also it's maybe a you don't wanna know what you don't wanna know.
Yes, possibly.
And obviously with 4 million copies sold, they've really benefited from the success of that book.
(29:41):
And it is very similar to the Bell Gibson case from what it's what we can see at this point.
So I'm sure we'll be talking about this as we find out more, but for the moment, I think Nagis built herself such a strong brand and her the way that she does her recipes and how she, she bakes things 20 times before she actually confirms what her recipe is.
(30:05):
She's quite authentic and real that I think people trust her when she says, Hey, I, these are mine.
I think this is made like I.
Wanna go out and buy Nargis cookbook? Me too.
I've been engaging with her content and I love the fact that when she posts her video, if it's not her recipe, she said, Hey, you guys keep asking me about how to make the best beef in Black bean.
(30:27):
So I've asked someone who knows way better than me, and she had that person cooking with her.
Oh wow.
So she does it the right way.
She does do it the right way.
She's not taking credit for what other people are creating.
There I'm not.
I'm definitely not hearing any chatter or backlash on her coming out about this, which I think is interesting.
I know, and it just comes down to the bottom line.
(30:48):
If it's not yours, don't profit off it.
I know.
What's with these Aussies? I know, but in conclusion, I think Brooke's reputation is damaged and then it's raising additional questions about influencer publishing and their integrity.
It really does.
(31:19):
One other thing I wanted to talk to you about, Claire, as I've been scrolling on TikTok, particularly on my on my work travel site at night, whilst I'm in my hotel room enjoying my room service is this new trend that we're seeing where people are turning to GoFundMe or TikTok or Instagram to pay for IVF treatment cancer treatment chronic illness, basically healthcare as well as legal support.
(31:45):
It's just really interesting from a perspective of what does that say about the system if people go into those lengths.
But also I guess the power of social media in the sense, so if you picture through this.
You're going on TikTok, you're, it's either dance content routines that people are doing really interesting recipes.
(32:08):
You name it.
And then all of a sudden you're scrolling and you land on someone that's just saying to camera, Hey, I've got this life threatening disease.
Please, if you are if you are serious about helping people, you're gonna wait 60 seconds and that's gonna help support me.
And so that's what I found myself, that in that algorithm the last few days and it is gaining traction.
(32:31):
And people are really just opening up about their struggles, which I think's quite vulnerable and you'd think that there'd be backlash.
But I'm looking at these comments and it's just overwhelming support.
If they're not asking for money, they're saying, the way you support me is watch my video.
Then TikTok will pay me.
Yeah, in Australia we don't have a creative fund for TikTok, but there are ways that you can definitely generate revenue from ads.
(32:56):
So in YouTube and that by posting that, or it could be getting their engagement so that they could get sponsored.
Exactly right.
And I think particularly what I'm seeing on TikTok is if you've reached 60 seconds, you're rewarded based on engagement.
So when I look at, a lot of these I think I said before is about healthcare, but with the cost of a lot of essential services so high.
(33:21):
For example, IVF treatments typically you're looking at about $6,000 out of pocket per cycle.
And then cancer treatments, ranging from a few hundred to over $10,000 really, depending on the type.
And then adding to that, if you are seeking legal fees not only is that mentally daunting, you're looking at hourly weight rates and then, $1,200 potentially per hour.
(33:47):
It's just really becoming a.
Something that only privileged people can really afford mm-hmm.
I'm looking at this going, it's kind of genius.
I dunno how long it's gonna last for, but I think it's something to watch and it I think there's some beauty in people supporting people.
We are in a cost of living crisis, so providing support to people in those needs for many is becoming discretionary.
(34:09):
When it previously might have just been an act, a natural act of what they did.
60 seconds of my time, I can do that.
But I might not be able to give you $10.
Yeah, exactly.
I also think about, when people are asking for coins, it's the power of technology, right? If there's someone seeking a coin, you go, I don't have cash.
That's no excuse anymore because a lot of the time you can tap now.
(34:32):
Mm-hmm.
They've got the facilities to do that.
But particularly with this, I thought it's quite interesting.
Not a lot of times going in the content made.
They're literally just pressing record.
Talking about their story and it's benefiting them financially.
And so I wondered why these unpolished videos are resonating.
We're obviously in a digital age that's dominated by curated content, influencer lifestyles, and.
(34:58):
Raw appeals like this probably does cut through 'cause it's so different.
It gives you a glimpse into those real lives and I think it just shows that there is some power in authenticity over polish.
Mm-hmm.
And empathy, driving engagement.
These are really fundamental things from my perspective as a marketer that you want to leverage when you're developing content.
(35:20):
But, and also because in the sense of you might not reach a lot of people in the sense that it's hundreds and thousands of people, even though I'm seeing that they are, but you're reaching an engaged cohort of people.
So it's that kind of micro influencing, so it's just, it's inspiring in the sense that.
It's really disrupting and the logic and I guess the algorithms intention.
(35:44):
They really, yeah, I'm quite impressed by it.
I dunno how I landed on this space on TikTok, but I'll continue to watch these 62nd videos when they do pop up and support the people that need it.
I love that.
All right, gab.
I think that's all we've got time for.
So whether it's swing voters deciding to get the lead or swinging public sentiment in a true crime trial this week showed us just how much power narrative holds.
(36:11):
And just a reminder, if you're foraging for mushrooms this weekend.
Take a friend who doesn't own a dehydrator or Claire's mom.
Yeah, we'll be back next week unless Gab ends up in another legal drama of her own.
We'll catch you next time.
Bye bye.
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