Death Cap Diaries Finale – Erin Patterson Guilty Verdict, Murder Trial Breakdown & Victoria Child Abuse Crisis - SpinCycle

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
.5714285714Gab, it's happened finally. 2 00:00:04,485.7142857143 --> 00:00:05,857.1428571429 Oh, it was.
.1428571429It was everything I imagined. 4 00:00:08,285.7142857143 --> 00:00:09,285.7142857143 It really was. 5 00:00:09,342.8571428571 --> 00:00:15,114.285714286 And I was so glad when I was at the office that you text me and let me know straight away that they were out. 6 00:00:15,657.142857143 --> 00:00:16,514.285714286 They were having a verdict.
.761904762So at about one 40, a friend in the media sent me a text to say the verdict is in. 8 00:00:23,985.714285714 --> 00:00:35,71.428571429 And I immediately texted everyone and everyone to let them know, and then created my little war room at home, which was like every coverage from the major news channels. 9 00:00:35,614.285714286 --> 00:00:36,985.714285714 And I was waiting and I was ready. 10 00:00:37,185.714285714 --> 00:00:38,585.714285714 That's so perfect. 11 00:00:38,585.714285714 --> 00:00:40,471.428571429 I wish I was, I was going in blind.

(00:40):
.428571429Yeah, I was stuck at the office. 13 00:00:41,471.428571429 --> 00:00:42,757.142857143 No TVs on the walls. 14 00:00:42,757.142857143 --> 00:00:45,242.857142857 So really living from Claire's updates. 15 00:00:45,271.428571429 --> 00:00:47,528.571428571 Were people at your work talking about it? Oh yeah. 16 00:00:47,576.19047619 --> 00:00:50,661.904761905 Your update to me was the announcement to the office. 17 00:00:50,933.333333333 --> 00:00:53,161.904761905 And then it just opened up the conversation. 18 00:00:53,190.476190476 --> 00:00:55,276.19047619 Like someone got it up on the computer and then it just went from there. 19 00:00:55,561.904761905 --> 00:00:55,733.333333333 Yeah. 20 00:00:55,933.333333333 --> 00:01:05,590.476190476 But I think the, and we'll dive into this, but it's pretty crazy how people's perceptions are so different and what they thought the outcome would be is so different. 21 00:01:05,876.19047619 --> 00:01:06,304.761904762 Yeah. 22 00:01:06,304.761904762 --> 00:01:07,104.761904762 Interesting. 23 00:01:08,433.428571429 --> 00:01:13,833.428571429 Coming up this week on spin Cycle, we're breaking down the Erin Patterson murder verdict. 24 00:01:14,33.428571429 --> 00:01:28,717.238095238 Erin Patterson is now a murder s, and we're also breaking down the outcome of a childcare worker in Victoria who's been charged with over 70 counts of child abuse, and the fallout has certainly shaken the entire industry as well as the Victorian community. 25 00:01:28,802.952380952 --> 00:01:29,888.666666667 So let's get into it. 26 00:01:45,241.04761905 --> 00:01:51,211.04761905 Welcome to Spin Cycle, where we dig into the stories shaping the world and take a closer look at the patterns, power plays. 27 00:01:51,211.04761905 --> 00:01:58,921.04761905 And yes, the biases hiding in plain sight where Gab and Claire, two friends with MBAs, A lot of opinions and a healthy amount of skepticism. 28 00:01:59,221.04761905 --> 00:02:02,221.04761905 We are here to help you think twice and maybe have a few laughs. 29 00:02:02,521.04761905 --> 00:02:03,376.04761905 Let's get spinning. 30 00:02:03,664.17687075 --> 00:02:09,16.55782313 But Gab first, what's top of mind for you this week? Today Claire is International Chocolate Day. 31 00:02:09,511.79591837 --> 00:02:12,111.79591837 I went to Cho Cocoa Black and I got a hot chocolate. 32 00:02:12,168.93877551 --> 00:02:19,397.51020408 I'm so jealous I haven't, so I haven't even had any chocolate yet, so I'm just thinking about what's the chocolate I'm gonna consume tonight? Because if there's a day, it's today. 33 00:02:19,483.2244898 --> 00:02:19,940.36734694 Yeah. 34 00:02:20,140.36734694 --> 00:02:20,483.2244898 Oh my God. 35 00:02:20,483.2244898 --> 00:02:24,259.41496599 It was so good when I was there, when we're in line, they just kept giving us like samples. 36 00:02:24,959.41496599 --> 00:02:27,245.1292517 I had like amazing and cocoa back. 37 00:02:27,845.1292517 --> 00:02:29,873.70068027 Black chocolates are really expensive. 38 00:02:29,930.84353741 --> 00:02:40,426.08163265 Oh, they are? Did you just happen to be there or did you actively go knowing that they would do something? Well, I walked past the sign yesterday that was like free hot chocolates from 12 o'clock, a hundred only. 39 00:02:40,711.79591837 --> 00:02:45,587.98639456 And I live across the road oh, so why wouldn't you? I was there at like 1202 and there was a line. 40 00:02:46,140.36734694 --> 00:02:49,997.51020408 Oh, was there? Yeah, like savvy people wanting their chocolate fix. 41 00:02:50,226.08163265 --> 00:02:51,226.08163265 That's so good. 42 00:02:51,283.2244898 --> 00:02:57,626.08163265 And what's about you? What's top of mind this week? So it's been a hard week because I've had verdict watch. 43 00:02:57,826.08163265 --> 00:02:58,197.51020408 Mm-hmm. 44 00:02:58,454.65306122 --> 00:03:02,711.79591837 But then also, 'cause I'm a finance geek because tomorrow's an RBA rate decision. 45 00:03:02,740.36734694 --> 00:03:05,235.60544218 So I've also been looking at what's happening in the futures market. 46 00:03:05,807.03401361 --> 00:03:08,235.60544218 Well, that's something we're gonna have to touch on in the next step, I think. 47 00:03:08,407.03401361 --> 00:03:08,778.46258503 Yes. 48 00:03:08,778.46258503 --> 00:03:13,845.1292517 But it is looking like there will be a change to the cash rate tomorrow at two 30. 49 00:03:13,845.1292517 --> 00:03:17,45.1292517 And that may mean a reduction in our home loan rates. 50 00:03:17,102.27210884 --> 00:03:18,387.98639456 Big news this week. 51 00:03:18,473.70068027 --> 00:03:26,330.84353741 I know What I'm super interested about though, is how the banks are gonna respond 'cause they have been passing on the rates in full. 52 00:03:26,645.1292517 --> 00:03:29,616.55782313 What is gonna happen now? This is the third rate cut. 53 00:03:29,673.70068027 --> 00:03:33,302.27210884 'cause I don't know, I think we were too young 'cause we didn't own any property at this point. 54 00:03:33,416.55782313 --> 00:03:38,245.1292517 When I say we didn't own our property gab and I just have a single, very basic apartment age. 55 00:03:38,245.1292517 --> 00:03:38,473.70068027 Totally. 56 00:03:39,387.98639456 --> 00:03:39,616.55782313 Totally. 57 00:03:39,616.55782313 --> 00:03:39,759.41496599 Yeah. 58 00:03:39,759.41496599 --> 00:03:39,959.41496599 Yeah. 59 00:03:39,959.41496599 --> 00:03:45,721.31972789 We, we are not property moguls by any point, we didn't experience when interest rates were reducing No. 60 00:03:45,949.89115646 --> 00:03:47,949.89115646 And the banks weren't passing them on. 61 00:03:48,407.03401361 --> 00:03:49,749.89115646 No, we haven't experienced that. 62 00:03:49,797.51020408 --> 00:03:50,226.08163265 It's. 63 00:03:50,926.08163265 --> 00:03:53,897.51020408 Gonna be interesting to see what happens after tomorrow. 64 00:03:54,11.79591837 --> 00:03:55,40.36734694 Yeah, a hundred percent. 65 00:03:57,494.46258567 --> 00:04:05,414.46258567 After the last sip of coffee on a Saturday afternoon, three people dead. 66 00:04:06,14.46258567 --> 00:04:10,244.46258567 One more clinging to life from the fatal mushrooms. 67 00:04:10,724.46258567 --> 00:04:18,279.46258567 At the beef Wellington Mu, we bring you the death diaries. 68 00:04:22,394.46258567 --> 00:04:23,23.03401424 All right, gab. 69 00:04:23,23.03401424 --> 00:04:26,908.74829996 It's the moment we've been waiting for the Erin Patterson Mushroom Murders. 70 00:04:26,908.74829996 --> 00:04:28,480.17687138 Trial is over and drum roll. 71 00:04:28,794.46258567 --> 00:04:30,508.74829996 She's guilty in all charges. 72 00:04:30,508.74829996 --> 00:04:30,565.8911571 Woo. 73 00:04:31,651.60544281 --> 00:04:38,108.74829996 Three murders, one attempted murder and a trial that had more plot twists than a Shonda Rhimes mini series. 74 00:04:38,708.74829996 --> 00:04:44,51.60544281 Completely, and it's finally time that we can speak freely and completely unleash. 75 00:04:44,51.60544281 --> 00:04:48,51.60544281 And it's honestly been so difficult to not do that until now. 76 00:04:48,223.03401424 --> 00:04:48,680.17687138 Yeah. 77 00:04:48,680.17687138 --> 00:04:57,794.46258567 Like I don't think we actually really appreciated when we said we wanted to cover this trial, how strict Victorian court laws are, although incredibly strict. 78 00:04:57,823.03401424 --> 00:05:00,851.60544281 So we really had to be careful and just make sure that. 79 00:05:01,823.03401424 --> 00:05:04,508.74829996 We were breaking down the facts. 80 00:05:04,565.8911571 --> 00:05:05,508.74829996 Yeah, a hundred percent. 81 00:05:05,508.74829996 --> 00:05:14,8.74829996 And we also used chat GBT as our free lawyer and a disclaimer and it's, and a disclaimer, thank you so much to a very good friend who crafted that for us. 82 00:05:14,437.31972853 --> 00:05:20,94.46258567 One thing I will say though is there was a moment of panic halfway through the trial where I had to message you, Gavin, and be like. 83 00:05:21,337.31972853 --> 00:05:27,765.8911571 Apparently the Victorian prosecution's office has sent a whole heap of emails to podcasts Yes. 84 00:05:27,908.74829996 --> 00:05:30,308.74829996 And news outlets who are on the naughty list. 85 00:05:30,337.31972853 --> 00:05:30,908.74829996 I know. 86 00:05:30,908.74829996 --> 00:05:32,656.36734757 And us thinking they were fine. 87 00:05:32,656.36734757 --> 00:05:32,808.74829996 Us. 88 00:05:32,808.74829996 --> 00:05:35,280.17687138 It was like, we like check, check, check our messages. 89 00:05:35,280.17687138 --> 00:05:37,365.8911571 Fortunately we were okay, like, check our messages. 90 00:05:37,365.8911571 --> 00:05:39,80.17687138 No, we were completely fine. 91 00:05:39,108.74829996 --> 00:05:40,765.8911571 So the disclaimer did the job. 92 00:05:40,765.8911571 --> 00:05:41,565.8911571 Thanks friend. 93 00:05:42,151.60544281 --> 00:05:42,723.03401424 Yeah. 94 00:05:42,770.65306186 --> 00:05:58,580.17687138 So if there are any jurors welcome and if they are here, I will take you out for a very expensive state dinner if you tell me everything that went down and I'll pay for your dessert because we would love to know what has been happening inside those rooms for the last seven days. 95 00:05:58,608.74829996 --> 00:05:59,8.74829996 Yeah. 96 00:05:59,65.8911571 --> 00:06:05,970.65306186 But before we get into it, gab do you think she's guilty? Yes, did it like we know she did it. 97 00:06:05,975.41496662 --> 00:06:12,427.795919 Do you know what this feels like? I'm in a confession in church and I'm just like finally being able to talk about my sins. 98 00:06:12,427.795919 --> 00:06:14,199.22449043 But yes, I believed it this whole time. 99 00:06:14,199.22449043 --> 00:06:15,799.22449043 She's a hundred percent guilty. 100 00:06:16,684.93877615 --> 00:06:22,27.795919 I always thought she obviously did it, but I didn't know if she would be found. 101 00:06:22,927.795919 --> 00:06:27,913.51020472 Guilty because I didn't know if the case was enough because there was no clear motive. 102 00:06:27,913.51020472 --> 00:06:29,327.795919 You thinking because of motive Intent? Yeah. 103 00:06:29,384.93877615 --> 00:06:30,442.08163329 Intent motive. 104 00:06:30,442.08163329 --> 00:06:32,156.36734757 But there could have been a motive we just never knew about. 105 00:06:32,156.36734757 --> 00:06:38,880.17687138 I was having this conversation with my dad about it and he is like, oh, there's like a terminology in France, which is not proven, but we know you did it. 106 00:06:39,537.31972853 --> 00:06:40,223.03401424 Oh. 107 00:06:40,223.03401424 --> 00:06:45,308.74829996 And I was like, that is the perfect way of explaining if the verdict went another way today. 108 00:06:46,8.74829996 --> 00:06:46,837.31972853 Definitely. 109 00:06:46,903.98639519 --> 00:06:53,761.12925234 What I'm wondering is what has actually taken them so long? Because she's been guilty on everything, it could have been guilty for some and not all. 110 00:06:53,761.12925234 --> 00:06:55,646.84353805 So it's unanimous. 111 00:06:55,675.41496662 --> 00:06:55,903.98639519 Yeah. 112 00:06:55,903.98639519 --> 00:06:58,103.98639519 State of Victoria unanimous, which is what we learned. 113 00:06:58,475.41496662 --> 00:07:05,103.98639519 I would love to know where they were at, where, where they started, or maybe they just methodically wanted to do it justice. 114 00:07:05,132.55782376 --> 00:07:08,46.84353805 They all agreed guilty, but they just wanted to. 115 00:07:08,632.55782376 --> 00:07:16,823.03401424 See I'm sure there've been someone in the room staring apart, being that devil's advocate, we always want them to be one person in there. 116 00:07:16,851.60544281 --> 00:07:19,508.74829996 I did think it was ironic that they got a full week of jury camp. 117 00:07:20,51.60544281 --> 00:07:20,223.03401424 Yeah. 118 00:07:20,223.03401424 --> 00:07:21,337.31972853 It it was a full week. 119 00:07:21,337.31972853 --> 00:07:21,708.74829996 Yeah. 120 00:07:21,737.31972853 --> 00:07:25,394.46258567 Like, was that someone that was just like, I want the full experience. 121 00:07:25,594.46258567 --> 00:07:26,708.74829996 I want the Sunday off. 122 00:07:26,737.31972853 --> 00:07:28,165.8911571 I wanna see what we do on Sunday. 123 00:07:28,737.31972853 --> 00:07:30,794.46258567 And then they were like, all right, I've done jury camp. 124 00:07:32,423.03401424 --> 00:07:33,651.60544281 I can go with the fold now. 125 00:07:33,680.17687138 --> 00:07:34,480.17687138 Do you think that. 126 00:07:35,437.31972853 --> 00:07:41,265.8911571 Morwell courts encourage them to slow down because they're getting so much publicity in that town. 127 00:07:41,265.8911571 --> 00:07:43,399.22449043 It's, we want one more week of tourism. 128 00:07:44,227.795919 --> 00:07:49,599.22449043 The journalists are saying that the Morwell, the people of Morwell wanted them gone and they wanted to go back to their sleepy town. 129 00:07:49,713.51020472 --> 00:07:54,542.08163329 Well, it's funny you say that because I've actually heard that there is a certain cafe in Morwell. 130 00:07:54,913.51020472 --> 00:08:01,656.36734757 That has since the case started, been selling beef Wellington on the menu and it sells out every day. 131 00:08:01,913.51020472 --> 00:08:02,456.36734757 I would do it. 132 00:08:02,942.08163329 --> 00:08:03,599.22449043 'cause it's funny. 133 00:08:03,999.22449043 --> 00:08:06,542.08163329 It is funny, but it's also look good on them. 134 00:08:06,684.93877615 --> 00:08:07,456.36734757 Yes, good on them. 135 00:08:07,456.36734757 --> 00:08:10,170.65306186 For taking advantage of the situation and commercializing it. 136 00:08:10,399.22449043 --> 00:08:11,113.51020472 A hundred percent. 137 00:08:11,856.36734757 --> 00:08:14,484.93877615 The background for anyone who has been living under a rock. 138 00:08:14,827.795919 --> 00:08:18,56.36734757 Erin Patterson Lee and Gotham Mum estranged from husband Simon. 139 00:08:18,56.36734757 --> 00:08:24,256.36734757 Invite Simon's parents, Don and Gail and Gail's sister Heather and her husband Ian Wilkinson for a nice home cooked beef. 140 00:08:24,313.51020472 --> 00:08:33,227.795919 Wellington Simon, the estranged ex was meant to attend, but gets the world's best gut instinct and BA's last minute, and he has lived to tell the tale. 141 00:08:33,284.93877615 --> 00:08:39,913.51020472 It's so fascinating because it would be so different if he went, I wonder how he's feeling now. 142 00:08:40,427.795919 --> 00:08:40,627.795919 Oh. 143 00:08:41,999.22449043 --> 00:08:43,799.22449043 But also now he's gotta look after the kids. 144 00:08:43,856.36734757 --> 00:08:44,142.08163329 He does. 145 00:08:44,227.795919 --> 00:08:45,199.22449043 Oh, those poor children. 146 00:08:45,246.84353805 --> 00:08:47,961.12925234 Like we are really making fun of this situation right now. 147 00:08:48,18.27210948 --> 00:08:52,846.84353805 I know, no, those poor kids, honestly, those poor kids and also three people have died. 148 00:08:53,361.12925234 --> 00:08:59,132.55782377 But, and also it's not like, not that it's any easier, but their moms killed their family. 149 00:08:59,446.84353805 --> 00:08:59,875.41496662 Yes. 150 00:09:00,218.27210948 --> 00:09:04,137.31972853 So the support network now for those kids is not what it would've been. 151 00:09:04,137.31972853 --> 00:09:05,703.98639519 And also the confusion of what she Yeah, exactly. 152 00:09:05,703.98639519 --> 00:09:08,75.41496662 They could by all accounts be social priors. 153 00:09:08,132.55782377 --> 00:09:08,732.55782377 Yes. 154 00:09:09,246.84353805 --> 00:09:15,818.27210948 July 16th, 2023, Erin invites the family and says, for health reasons, spoiler, she lies about having cancer to get them to come. 155 00:09:16,446.84353805 --> 00:09:22,789.70068091 That's what I find so weird about this whole thing is who lies about having cancer, but also. 156 00:09:23,575.41496662 --> 00:09:29,203.98639519 Like saying, because I don't wanna have to tell the kids, oh, like I want to find a way to tell the kids it's very sick. 157 00:09:29,775.41496662 --> 00:09:32,3.98639519 But also they came and ate the meal. 158 00:09:32,461.12925234 --> 00:09:34,146.84353805 Then she told them about the cancer. 159 00:09:34,461.12925234 --> 00:09:38,175.41496662 Why couldn't, like she, she obviously wasn't hard to get them to come and eat a meal. 160 00:09:38,232.55782377 --> 00:09:40,32.55782377 Like she could've said anything. 161 00:09:40,32.55782377 --> 00:09:42,289.70068091 She could've just been like, thank you so much. 162 00:09:42,289.70068091 --> 00:09:47,13.51020472 I've been feeling really anxious about, the relationship or thank you. 163 00:09:47,42.08163329 --> 00:09:49,527.795919 I really wanna support us spending more time together. 164 00:09:49,527.795919 --> 00:09:53,746.84353805 No, but that's, she told them about the health issues to get them to lunch. 165 00:09:55,232.55782376 --> 00:09:56,89.70068091 No, seriously. 166 00:09:56,118.27210948 --> 00:09:56,718.27210948 Yeah. 167 00:09:56,965.8911571 --> 00:09:58,108.74829996 But she didn't have to say the cancer. 168 00:09:58,108.74829996 --> 00:09:59,365.8911571 She could've just said, oh yeah, you're right. 169 00:09:59,394.46258567 --> 00:09:59,823.03401424 You are right. 170 00:09:59,851.60544281 --> 00:10:01,851.60544281 She could've, she didn't have to say that. 171 00:10:02,994.46258567 --> 00:10:04,965.8911571 And then, okay, so the lunch happens. 172 00:10:05,108.74829996 --> 00:10:11,480.17687138 So July 29th, 2023, she serves individual beef wellingtons with special mushroom paste. 173 00:10:12,23.03401424 --> 00:10:15,365.8911571 And she was too distracted by the conversation to finish her portion. 174 00:10:15,918.27210948 --> 00:10:19,699.22449043 Individual beef Wellingtons was a really interesting point in this. 175 00:10:19,699.22449043 --> 00:10:23,918.27210948 Well, and I've just, I've still never had a beef Wellington before, so it's still on my list. 176 00:10:23,918.27210948 --> 00:10:33,289.70068091 But is it usually one whole thing? Is it norm? So you're saying it's not really normal to have separate? No, they normally, they normally like cut piece and that's part of the complication of it. 177 00:10:33,289.70068091 --> 00:10:34,261.12925234 'cause it's really hard to cook. 178 00:10:34,832.55782377 --> 00:10:35,146.84353805 Ah. 179 00:10:37,146.84353805 --> 00:10:42,146.84353805 So at the lunch ju on July 30th, all four guests were violently ill. 180 00:10:42,489.70068091 --> 00:10:49,146.84353805 Erin claimed she was a little bit sick too, but not sick enough that she couldn't run errands and then still decided to feed the kids the leftovers. 181 00:10:49,746.84353805 --> 00:10:55,851.60544281 And then she also checked herself in the hospital, but leaves after 10 minutes she did come back because they demanded her too. 182 00:10:57,61.12925234 --> 00:10:59,61.12925234 That's classic near deaf admin. 183 00:10:59,61.12925234 --> 00:10:59,803.98639519 Gabby, you can't. 184 00:11:00,132.55782377 --> 00:11:01,994.46258567 Die from liver failure before taking kids. 185 00:11:02,51.60544281 --> 00:11:02,680.17687138 The kids to ballet. 186 00:11:02,680.17687138 --> 00:11:03,475.41496662 To ballet. 187 00:11:04,275.41496662 --> 00:11:04,361.12925234 Oh no. 188 00:11:05,418.27210948 --> 00:11:16,942.08163329 So what happens then, a week or so later after being in hospital, critically ill, three of the guests die and the only person to survive was the towns passed to Ian. 189 00:11:17,284.93877615 --> 00:11:18,527.795919 Praise B be bless it. 190 00:11:18,527.795919 --> 00:11:19,199.22449043 Be the fruit. 191 00:11:20,84.93877615 --> 00:11:23,913.51020472 And that was only just like he nearly died. 192 00:11:24,227.795919 --> 00:11:26,884.93877615 Do you reckon the beef Wellington was worth spending two months in ICU for. 193 00:11:28,742.08163329 --> 00:11:37,456.36734757 Would you have a meal where you could spend two months in ICU for a meal that was worth going to hospital for? That is such a great question. 194 00:11:37,484.93877615 --> 00:11:46,323.03401424 Is it like that, like poisonous fish on with Simpsons? I was gonna say like something just really, I don't know, indulgent. 195 00:11:47,465.8911571 --> 00:11:54,180.17687138 I would be really mad to learn that like my indulgent beef Wellington was made with steak from Woolworths. 196 00:11:54,961.12925234 --> 00:11:59,675.41496662 I'd be expecting at least like fancy eye, fill it from the butchers, especially out there. 197 00:11:59,675.41496662 --> 00:12:01,18.27210948 Surely there's cattle farm. 198 00:12:01,18.27210948 --> 00:12:04,756.36734757 Surely there's some fresh, you know, farms to the table. 199 00:12:04,756.36734757 --> 00:12:04,757.31972853 Okay. 200 00:12:04,757.31972853 --> 00:12:08,542.08163329 As, as I said, I am from, grew up going to Karumba a lot. 201 00:12:08,542.08163329 --> 00:12:09,742.08163329 My mom is from Karumba. 202 00:12:10,27.795919 --> 00:12:13,313.51020472 They have amazing quality produce. 203 00:12:13,542.08163329 --> 00:12:17,370.65306186 Like I remember growing up on like export quality beef, and it is sensational. 204 00:12:18,170.65306186 --> 00:12:30,94.46258567 Well, this is the thing, and this is where I can be a little bit petty because we can now, but the plates, so this whole thing in having people open for dinner, she's buying these ingredients from Woolies, absolutely fine. 205 00:12:30,94.46258567 --> 00:12:33,294.46258567 But if it's a very special lunch Interesting. 206 00:12:33,523.03401424 --> 00:12:33,923.03401424 But also. 207 00:12:34,951.60544281 --> 00:12:37,265.8911571 She's put random plate from the sounds of it. 208 00:12:37,265.8911571 --> 00:12:42,580.17687138 The one the plate she ate from was a plastic kids' plate, I think from Ian's recollection. 209 00:12:42,665.8911571 --> 00:12:42,980.17687138 Yes. 210 00:12:43,8.74829996 --> 00:12:47,580.17687138 It's very weird and normally it's a bit of a point of funny, like it's a haha thing. 211 00:12:47,580.17687138 --> 00:12:50,323.03401424 You go, alright Ian, you are getting the kids' plate. 212 00:12:50,351.60544281 --> 00:12:52,780.17687138 Like you'll generally give the random plate to a guest. 213 00:12:52,780.17687138 --> 00:12:53,694.46258567 You wouldn't have it yourself. 214 00:12:53,742.08163329 --> 00:12:58,684.93877615 Actually, my perception of that was I feel like she's takes on this persona of the martyr. 215 00:12:58,684.93877615 --> 00:13:00,627.795919 Like I never put myself first. 216 00:13:00,627.795919 --> 00:13:01,856.36734757 I always put the kids first. 217 00:13:02,84.93877615 --> 00:13:03,56.36734757 Life's so hard. 218 00:13:03,199.22449043 --> 00:13:03,313.51020472 Mm. 219 00:13:03,599.22449043 --> 00:13:05,770.65306186 So I feel like it's like I don't have enough plates. 220 00:13:05,799.22449043 --> 00:13:07,913.51020472 Let me have the plastic plate. 221 00:13:08,142.08163329 --> 00:13:12,570.65306186 But it was actually the signifier of the poisonous meal. 222 00:13:12,770.65306186 --> 00:13:13,599.22449043 Yes. 223 00:13:13,770.65306186 --> 00:13:14,142.08163329 Yes. 224 00:13:14,142.08163329 --> 00:13:15,113.51020472 That is a very good point. 225 00:13:15,256.36734757 --> 00:13:15,570.65306186 Mm. 226 00:13:15,684.93877615 --> 00:13:19,542.08163329 So August four to fifth, three of the guests die, only Ian survives. 227 00:13:20,27.795919 --> 00:13:25,142.08163329 And then in November of that year of 2023, she was arrested. 228 00:13:25,342.08163329 --> 00:13:27,942.08163329 Fast forward to July, 2025. 229 00:13:28,489.70068091 --> 00:13:30,775.41496662 Trial and verdict and she's now guilty. 230 00:13:30,870.65306186 --> 00:13:41,127.795919 So why do you think she did it, Claire? God, this is the million dollar question and it's the thing that annoys me the most, and I suspect it's a motive that we don't know about. 231 00:13:41,184.93877615 --> 00:13:45,156.36734757 There is something in there because I do not believe that she. 232 00:13:45,913.51020472 --> 00:13:52,565.8911571 Is because if, if we believe what the prosecution said, which is she had a, a text argument with the in-laws a year ago. 233 00:13:53,137.31972853 --> 00:13:58,680.17687138 She's either the pettiest woman in the world to stew on that for a full year and that was enough. 234 00:13:58,908.74829996 --> 00:14:00,623.03401424 Or I think there's something else to it. 235 00:14:01,623.03401424 --> 00:14:08,746.84353805 My perception of this is, when someone tries to bend the boundaries, let's take a step back. 236 00:14:08,746.84353805 --> 00:14:15,118.27210948 We know that her ex-husband, Simon, had been over for multiple meals before and he'd gotten seriously ill. 237 00:14:15,661.12925234 --> 00:14:25,603.98639519 So I think it's one of those sick things of, I think she enjoyed seeing him in pain and like over time she probably gave him a little bit more, a little bit more. 238 00:14:26,461.12925234 --> 00:14:30,432.55782377 And so it's, for me, it's got to do with. 239 00:14:31,18.27210948 --> 00:14:31,761.12925234 Control. 240 00:14:31,932.55782377 --> 00:14:33,846.84353805 I think she felt a bit outta control of her life. 241 00:14:33,846.84353805 --> 00:14:41,742.08163329 He controlled the separation and this she could control by putting people, in pain around it. 242 00:14:41,742.08163329 --> 00:14:41,884.93877615 In pain. 243 00:14:42,227.795919 --> 00:14:45,970.65306186 They could feel her pain to feel her pain because she was alone. 244 00:14:46,913.51020472 --> 00:14:52,132.55782377 Oh, anyway, emo a motive that my mom told me, which I actually thought quite clever, so I can't claim it. 245 00:14:52,132.55782377 --> 00:14:52,389.70068091 Thanks. 246 00:14:52,389.70068091 --> 00:14:53,527.795919 Leoni is. 247 00:14:54,75.41496662 --> 00:15:02,18.27210948 That she thinks that Erin got rid of the in-laws so that they would be on even parody because her family has all passed away. 248 00:15:02,589.70068091 --> 00:15:04,361.12925234 So that would make him depend on her. 249 00:15:04,503.98639519 --> 00:15:04,903.98639519 Oh, yeah. 250 00:15:04,903.98639519 --> 00:15:07,361.12925234 I, I've had went through a phase where I thought that was the case too. 251 00:15:07,361.12925234 --> 00:15:10,418.27210948 I still think that's part of it because she was jealous. 252 00:15:10,418.27210948 --> 00:15:14,18.27210948 Why would she still go to the family things that she wasn't invited to. 253 00:15:14,18.27210948 --> 00:15:19,103.98639519 I think she really had this sense of she wanted to feel needed and she wasn't needed anymore. 254 00:15:19,246.84353805 --> 00:15:19,789.70068091 Yeah. 255 00:15:19,789.70068091 --> 00:15:20,818.27210948 That's such a good point. 256 00:15:22,818.27210948 --> 00:15:29,361.12925234 So next thing I wanted to ask you, Claire, was the evidence? Yes. 257 00:15:30,646.84353805 --> 00:15:34,818.27210948 Was mushroom foraging a hobby for her? Okay. 258 00:15:34,846.84353805 --> 00:15:36,418.27210948 This is where I'm a bit conflicted. 259 00:15:36,503.98639519 --> 00:15:36,646.84353805 I. 260 00:15:37,289.70068091 --> 00:15:39,289.70068091 Erin Patterson is a smart woman. 261 00:15:39,289.70068091 --> 00:15:41,718.27210948 She was an air traffic controller and that is one of the hardest. 262 00:15:41,718.27210948 --> 00:15:42,118.27210948 I didn't know that. 263 00:15:42,175.41496662 --> 00:15:42,375.41496662 Yeah. 264 00:15:42,489.70068091 --> 00:15:50,346.84353805 That is one of the hardest careers to get into because it takes a certain person, a certain brain, and a certain level of intelligence. 265 00:15:50,603.98639519 --> 00:15:52,718.27210948 I'm sorry to say Gab, I don't think we would ever cut it. 266 00:15:53,118.27210948 --> 00:15:53,432.55782377 No. 267 00:15:53,642.08163329 --> 00:15:58,13.51020472 This is someone who can multitask problem solving, real time logic. 268 00:15:58,527.795919 --> 00:16:00,584.93877615 Calm under pressure, right? Yes. 269 00:16:00,699.22449043 --> 00:16:14,242.08163329 I honestly think that she would've planned this with more precision, and I think that's why I flipped between guilty, not guilty 'cause she's a smart woman and I felt like the execution was messy and for everything she else, she's done. 270 00:16:14,337.31972853 --> 00:16:16,765.8911571 I feel like she's someone who works with precision. 271 00:16:17,308.74829996 --> 00:16:23,51.60544281 So I honestly think that if she was gonna double down on this mushroom foraging thing, she would've built it out as a hobby. 272 00:16:23,165.8911571 --> 00:16:25,451.60544281 She would've making the kids go mushroom foraging with her. 273 00:16:25,761.12925234 --> 00:16:31,303.98639519 She would've been putting photos of it up so that people knew she foraged for mushrooms. 274 00:16:31,932.55782377 --> 00:16:32,618.27210948 I agree. 275 00:16:32,961.12925234 --> 00:16:33,875.41496662 I agree with that. 276 00:16:33,923.03401424 --> 00:16:44,794.4625857 I think this is something she liked to have for herself and just to also set the scene as someone, I keep saying, the ties to Karin bur, it was very common to pick filled mushrooms and eat them. 277 00:16:44,937.3197285 --> 00:16:45,565.8911571 Very common. 278 00:16:45,565.8911571 --> 00:16:48,537.3197285 So I don't think he had, she said, I forage for the mushrooms. 279 00:16:48,537.3197285 --> 00:16:49,794.4625857 They would've been like, I'm not eating that. 280 00:16:50,899.2244904 --> 00:16:52,527.795919 Mm. 281 00:16:52,642.0816333 --> 00:16:52,956.3673476 Yeah. 282 00:16:52,956.3673476 --> 00:16:53,242.0816333 Okay. 283 00:16:53,242.0816333 --> 00:16:55,470.6530619 So pretty normal there to be doing that. 284 00:16:56,299.2244904 --> 00:17:05,699.2244904 What I find weird about it as well is you're saying she is very intelligent, but her sloppy digital trail. 285 00:17:06,184.9387761 --> 00:17:07,13.5102047 Yes. 286 00:17:07,299.2244904 --> 00:17:14,127.795919 So Googling death, cat mushrooms going to lock an out room immediately after seeing them on the iNaturalist website. 287 00:17:14,127.795919 --> 00:17:15,70.6530619 That was a bit sus. 288 00:17:15,856.3673476 --> 00:17:37,970.6530619 Do you think, I mean at what point did they take confiscate her stuff? Because did she just genuinely think she was gonna get away with it? So she thought she wouldn't have to? Was she so co confident about it? The prosecution alleged that she didn't think that, 'cause they didn't figure out that she was poisoning her husband with mushrooms, that she maybe thought they wouldn't figure out that she killed the others with the mushrooms. 289 00:17:39,227.795919 --> 00:17:39,313.5102047 Oh. 290 00:17:39,370.6530619 --> 00:17:41,999.2244904 So therefore she had didn't, maybe that's why she could be sloppy. 291 00:17:41,999.2244904 --> 00:17:43,342.0816333 'cause she thought she'd get away with it. 292 00:17:44,27.795919 --> 00:17:46,199.2244904 Yeah, she got a bit complacent. 293 00:17:46,370.6530619 --> 00:17:46,770.6530619 Sorry. 294 00:17:46,856.3673476 --> 00:17:48,513.5102047 I'm like drinking non-alcoholic. 295 00:17:48,570.6530619 --> 00:17:52,713.5102047 Yeah, we're drinking non-alcoholic, non alcoholic wine to celebrate, despite it being Dr. 296 00:17:52,713.5102047 --> 00:17:53,27.795919 Liar. 297 00:17:53,180.1768714 --> 00:17:54,751.6054428 It's not too bad to be honest. 298 00:17:54,751.6054428 --> 00:17:55,208.7483 This one's good. 299 00:17:55,208.7483 --> 00:17:59,65.8911571 So this is plus and minus as a side note, I feel like is one of the better ones. 300 00:17:59,94.4625857 --> 00:18:00,780.1768714 Oh, have you had it before? Yeah, I have. 301 00:18:00,894.4625857 --> 00:18:08,256.3673476 I usually every dried, I usually do dry July, but every year take the opportunity to try all these new brands because it's such a new industry. 302 00:18:08,284.9387761 --> 00:18:09,971.6054428 So there's all, there's so many new brands. 303 00:18:09,976.3673476 --> 00:18:10,684.9387761 They've come a long way. 304 00:18:10,713.5102047 --> 00:18:11,742.0816333 'cause they used to be like syrup. 305 00:18:11,999.2244904 --> 00:18:14,84.9387761 Oh, they were, they were, they were horrible. 306 00:18:14,284.9387761 --> 00:18:15,199.2244904 Anyway, we digressing. 307 00:18:15,199.2244904 --> 00:18:15,427.795919 Yeah. 308 00:18:16,27.795919 --> 00:18:20,227.795919 So the dried mushrooms from the Asian grocer, that was a terrible statement to make. 309 00:18:20,484.9387761 --> 00:18:22,56.3673476 Like it was vague. 310 00:18:22,294.4625857 --> 00:18:23,694.4625857 There's credit card statements. 311 00:18:23,923.0340142 --> 00:18:28,637.3197285 They did a, I don't think she was expecting the Department of Health to lock in like they did. 312 00:18:28,637.3197285 --> 00:18:42,561.1292523 'cause they were like from Asian grocers, do you remember those people putting needles in the strawberries? Like do we have a situation like that? Well, I think what really this is the thing, and this is probably what she went wrong, is by saying that she had gotten the mushrooms from Woolies. 313 00:18:42,989.7006809 --> 00:18:52,542.0816333 That made it into a big thing straightaway because they wanted to make sure that their entire supply system was not screwed up, was safe, was all compromised. 314 00:18:52,627.795919 --> 00:18:53,342.0816333 Exactly. 315 00:18:53,399.2244904 --> 00:18:56,199.2244904 Some idiots gone and put death caps in with the button. 316 00:18:56,199.2244904 --> 00:18:57,856.3673476 Mushrooms, yes. 317 00:18:59,142.0816333 --> 00:18:59,999.2244904 Which is terrifying. 318 00:19:00,170.6530619 --> 00:19:01,770.6530619 Oh, very terrifying. 319 00:19:03,656.3673476 --> 00:19:17,599.2244904 Then we come to the dehydrator, which was terribly covered up, like what I can't get over is she dumped the dehydrator at the tip and paid for it using her credit card, and there was CCTV and she got a receipt. 320 00:19:19,327.795919 --> 00:19:21,70.6530619 I don't know why she did that. 321 00:19:21,99.2244904 --> 00:19:29,584.9387761 I'm trying to work out whether, because of what happened, she actually did start feeling guilt and she wanted to be caught out because she couldn't live with herself. 322 00:19:30,527.795919 --> 00:19:33,423.0340142 But then, wouldn't you not lie on the stand? I don't know. 323 00:19:33,680.1768714 --> 00:19:35,451.6054428 But it, it was incredibly sloppy. 324 00:19:35,451.6054428 --> 00:19:36,823.0340142 It's like she didn't care anymore. 325 00:19:36,851.6054428 --> 00:19:37,594.4625857 She was above it. 326 00:19:38,280.1768714 --> 00:19:41,165.8911571 I also like, really enjoy how fun. 327 00:19:41,551.6054428 --> 00:19:46,37.3197285 A day the detectives would be having 'cause they would've probably had her financials at this point. 328 00:19:46,37.3197285 --> 00:19:47,265.8911571 'cause she's named Yeah. 329 00:19:47,265.8911571 --> 00:19:47,951.6054428 Suspect. 330 00:19:48,180.1768714 --> 00:19:56,123.0340142 They say the charge for the tip, they call the tip and they're like, do you have a sunbeam dehydrated by any chance? And they're like, yeah, we do. 331 00:19:56,294.4625857 --> 00:20:01,837.3197285 You'd just be like, what? It's, yeah, she didn't go to the next town. 332 00:20:01,865.8911571 --> 00:20:07,123.0340142 It was literally like the local tip, wasn't it? Would you take it to the tip? I would have other ways of destroying it. 333 00:20:08,8.7483 --> 00:20:08,465.8911571 Yeah., 334 00:20:08,465.8911571 --> 00:20:12,313.5102047 hypothetically obviously, but I think I would take it somewhere where I could burn it. 335 00:20:12,313.5102047 --> 00:20:12,370.6530619 Yeah. 336 00:20:12,427.795919 --> 00:20:13,170.6530619 Light inside. 337 00:20:13,170.6530619 --> 00:20:14,456.3673476 Just like completely get rid of it. 338 00:20:14,542.0816333 --> 00:20:16,142.0816333 I pull it apart and then burn it. 339 00:20:16,942.0816333 --> 00:20:20,313.5102047 Yeah, a hundred percent Or, and burn it very far away somewhere. 340 00:20:20,456.3673476 --> 00:20:22,884.9387761 Or, because I have thought this well through. 341 00:20:23,856.3673476 --> 00:20:31,656.3673476 I've got it as a, I've got it clearly and prominently on my kitchen bench because I'm an expert forager and I also dehydrate stuff, hon. 342 00:20:31,656.3673476 --> 00:20:32,827.795919 In all the time. 343 00:20:32,999.2244904 --> 00:20:36,313.5102047 And in between my mushrooms, I'm dehydrating my own fruit rollups. 344 00:20:36,599.2244904 --> 00:20:37,313.5102047 Yes. 345 00:20:37,399.2244904 --> 00:20:40,484.9387761 It's like, in the latest white lotus with the blender. 346 00:20:41,84.9387761 --> 00:20:41,742.0816333 Yeah. 347 00:20:41,746.8435381 --> 00:20:43,742.0816333 You, no, it's gotta be out there, I think. 348 00:20:43,770.6530619 --> 00:20:44,113.5102047 Yeah. 349 00:20:44,199.2244904 --> 00:20:44,570.6530619 Yeah. 350 00:20:45,570.6530619 --> 00:20:47,27.795919 So dehydrator is bad. 351 00:20:47,27.795919 --> 00:20:49,256.3673476 She also shouldn't have lied and said, I never owned a dehydrator. 352 00:20:49,613.5102047 --> 00:20:51,756.3673476 Because that was an obvious lie. 353 00:20:52,442.0816333 --> 00:21:02,356.3673476 Why did she And I, I know that under pressure and under stress, people lie, but she's lying about stuff where she knew she'd be found out. 354 00:21:02,813.5102047 --> 00:21:02,956.3673476 Mm. 355 00:21:03,565.8911571 --> 00:21:09,980.1768714 I'm getting ahead, these appointments for this liposuction that I like that you obviously gonna get caught. 356 00:21:10,656.3673476 --> 00:21:11,161.1292523 Yeah, I know. 357 00:21:11,951.6054428 --> 00:21:12,837.3197285 The next one, gab. 358 00:21:12,837.3197285 --> 00:21:16,323.0340142 And this was where my dad thought this is her point of guilt. 359 00:21:16,323.0340142 --> 00:21:19,751.6054428 This is the a hundred percent thing that is the nail in her coffin. 360 00:21:19,751.6054428 --> 00:21:19,837.3197285 Yeah. 361 00:21:20,265.8911571 --> 00:21:31,351.6054428 And that's the fact that she like wipes her phone three times and he couldn't get over the audacity or the fact that she only had her phone for six months and then got a new one. 362 00:21:31,465.8911571 --> 00:21:31,980.1768714 He's like. 363 00:21:32,280.1768714 --> 00:21:32,965.8911571 You would take it back. 364 00:21:32,965.8911571 --> 00:21:33,965.8911571 You have a warranty for that. 365 00:21:33,965.8911571 --> 00:21:37,337.3197285 Like, he was so hell bent on the fact that she could possibly leave money on the table. 366 00:21:37,365.8911571 --> 00:21:37,451.6054428 Yeah. 367 00:21:38,23.0340142 --> 00:21:39,794.4625857 By not taking her brand new phone back. 368 00:21:39,794.4625857 --> 00:21:44,280.1768714 If it broke after six months, that's where your dad's much more savvier than, oh, he is really cheap. 369 00:21:44,280.1768714 --> 00:21:46,546.8435381 So he, that just for him was just out of mind. 370 00:21:47,42.0816333 --> 00:21:47,756.3673476 Not possible. 371 00:21:48,842.0816333 --> 00:21:49,213.5102047 Yeah. 372 00:21:49,213.5102047 --> 00:21:50,927.795919 Erasing it three times. 373 00:21:52,156.3673476 --> 00:21:52,727.795919 That's the thing. 374 00:21:52,727.795919 --> 00:21:56,270.6530619 There's so many things that were so stupid mm-hmm. 375 00:21:56,499.2244904 --> 00:21:57,184.9387761 That she did. 376 00:21:58,270.6530619 --> 00:21:58,442.0816333 Yeah. 377 00:21:59,242.0816333 --> 00:22:06,556.3673476 And you are either just really anxious and you're out of your right mind. 378 00:22:06,699.2244904 --> 00:22:12,842.0816333 Or, or she's genuinely doesn't realize I can track these things. 379 00:22:13,70.6530619 --> 00:22:13,442.0816333 Yeah. 380 00:22:13,670.6530619 --> 00:22:15,556.3673476 I don't understand what she was thinking there. 381 00:22:15,556.3673476 --> 00:22:15,670.6530619 Yeah. 382 00:22:16,242.0816333 --> 00:22:16,927.795919 We played it off. 383 00:22:16,927.795919 --> 00:22:18,327.795919 We're like, oh, it could be panic. 384 00:22:18,327.795919 --> 00:22:27,165.8911571 It could be she just saw it there and thought, why not? I think it was intentional, but again, I could think it was sloppy because if this is something she should have thought about in advance. 385 00:22:27,737.3197285 --> 00:22:28,994.4625857 Yeah, it really was. 386 00:22:29,737.3197285 --> 00:22:34,965.8911571 Then we come to playing sick and the white pants. 387 00:22:36,494.4625857 --> 00:22:38,180.1768714 Remind me about the white pants. 388 00:22:38,208.7483 --> 00:22:41,723.0340142 So she wore white pants when she apparently had very bad diarrhea. 389 00:22:41,780.1768714 --> 00:22:41,923.0340142 Oh my. 390 00:22:41,923.0340142 --> 00:22:44,894.4625857 Whilst driving her son for an hour to fly a plane. 391 00:22:45,923.0340142 --> 00:22:47,751.6054428 Yeah, let's talk about that. 392 00:22:47,808.7483 --> 00:22:50,446.8435381 Would you ever, wear women, we have a time of the month. 393 00:22:50,446.8435381 --> 00:22:52,732.5578238 I would not wear white pants. 394 00:22:52,789.7006809 --> 00:22:54,532.5578238 I don't even think I own a pair of white pants. 395 00:22:54,618.2721095 --> 00:22:55,189.7006809 I do. 396 00:22:55,275.4149666 --> 00:23:01,332.5578238 I enjoy them, but I would not wear them at any inkling of a chance. 397 00:23:01,675.4149666 --> 00:23:03,189.7006809 There might be an accident. 398 00:23:03,532.5578238 --> 00:23:04,903.9863952 Do you know what I mean? A hundred percent. 399 00:23:04,903.9863952 --> 00:23:06,961.1292523 Like that is a, that is a choice. 400 00:23:07,75.4149666 --> 00:23:08,18.2721095 Oh my God. 401 00:23:09,475.4149666 --> 00:23:18,246.8435381 So that, I think that was where I got really caught up and I was really hoping the prosecution would be like, did you really wear white pants when you had diarrhea? And she didn't. 402 00:23:18,246.8435381 --> 00:23:19,903.9863952 And I felt like that was a lost opportunity. 403 00:23:20,818.2721095 --> 00:23:22,561.1292523 It's completely a lost opportunity. 404 00:23:22,561.1292523 --> 00:23:33,761.1292523 It's remind me of that moment in Legally Blonde when she asked her about if she got the perm because she was in the shower washing her hair and then that was like the glycolic acid will activate the curls. 405 00:23:33,932.5578238 --> 00:23:34,875.4149666 Exactly. 406 00:23:34,903.9863952 --> 00:23:34,989.7006809 Mm-hmm. 407 00:23:35,275.4149666 --> 00:23:37,389.7006809 It just, it feels like it's that moment. 408 00:23:37,589.7006809 --> 00:23:37,846.8435381 Yeah. 409 00:23:38,561.1292523 --> 00:23:47,732.5578238 And then the other thing is, if I had a meal and I got really sick and knew the others were sick after the meal, would you feed the leftovers to your children? Is this. 410 00:23:47,732.5578238 --> 00:23:50,446.8435381 So she fed them to the kids after she knew they were sick. 411 00:23:50,503.9863952 --> 00:23:51,532.5578238 The the other people were sick. 412 00:23:51,532.5578238 --> 00:23:53,75.4149666 She knew that after they were sick. 413 00:23:54,303.9863952 --> 00:23:55,103.9863952 Would you do that? No. 414 00:23:55,103.9863952 --> 00:23:56,361.1292523 You'd abundance of caution. 415 00:23:56,361.1292523 --> 00:23:58,303.9863952 You'd be like, oh, it's probably not that. 416 00:23:58,303.9863952 --> 00:24:05,703.9863952 But especially when she's such a hypochondriac because we know that in the past she would call Simon 'cause she thinks something's wrong with the kids and all this stuff. 417 00:24:06,132.5578238 --> 00:24:06,332.5578238 Yeah. 418 00:24:06,332.5578238 --> 00:24:07,446.8435381 It doesn't check out. 419 00:24:07,561.1292523 --> 00:24:07,932.5578238 Yeah. 420 00:24:08,218.2721095 --> 00:24:13,846.8435381 Like I'm not afraid to risk it and eat things that have probably been in the fridge a bit too long every now and then, but. 421 00:24:14,175.4149666 --> 00:24:19,375.4149666 If I had multiple people that were very unwell and I was sick myself, probably not gonna feed the kids that. 422 00:24:19,432.5578238 --> 00:24:20,918.2721095 No, definitely not. 423 00:24:21,918.2721095 --> 00:24:24,889.7006809 Then we have the expert witnesses and the science squad. 424 00:24:24,946.8435381 --> 00:24:34,61.1292523 So yes, we've spoken a lot about some pretty hefty evidence, but then they had a bunch of experts and mushroom experts. 425 00:24:34,861.1292523 --> 00:24:35,261.1292523 Yes. 426 00:24:35,261.1292523 --> 00:24:36,546.8435381 Such as Funky Tom. 427 00:24:37,89.7006809 --> 00:24:37,632.5578238 I love that. 428 00:24:37,632.5578238 --> 00:24:38,146.8435381 Handle. 429 00:24:38,546.8435381 --> 00:24:39,203.9863952 Good on him. 430 00:24:39,203.9863952 --> 00:24:39,603.9863952 Dr. 431 00:24:39,603.9863952 --> 00:24:40,203.9863952 Tom May. 432 00:24:40,718.2721095 --> 00:24:41,575.4149666 Talk to her mate. 433 00:24:41,718.2721095 --> 00:24:42,632.5578238 Username funky. 434 00:24:42,632.5578238 --> 00:24:50,175.4149666 Tom runs the iNaturalist website, tells the court that drying def Mel death cat mushrooms smell disgusting. 435 00:24:50,756.3673476 --> 00:24:53,499.2244904 And you would've known something's not right when you were dehydrating them. 436 00:24:54,356.3673476 --> 00:25:05,842.0816333 Oh, so it really is an identifier for them? Yeah, but like anything, if something smell disgusting, are you going to like eat it? No, you wouldn't, especially if she's trying to impress these people with a nice meal. 437 00:25:06,499.2244904 --> 00:25:07,670.6530619 You'd second guess yourself. 438 00:25:07,813.5102047 --> 00:25:25,165.8911571 So the forensic and digital experts confirmed that death cap toxin was in the food, the dehydrator, and in the victims, but not in Aaron and the telecom expert tracks home movement and phone activity with a thoroughness of a dating app on steroids on that, if I was her and I'm wanting to poison people. 439 00:25:26,94.4625857 --> 00:25:28,265.8911571 I would poison myself a little bit. 440 00:25:28,494.4625857 --> 00:25:32,837.3197285 Yes, she would've microdosed herself a hundred percent, but she would train herself. 441 00:25:32,894.4625857 --> 00:25:35,894.4625857 You'd almost microdose yourself over a period of time. 442 00:25:35,951.6054428 --> 00:25:36,65.8911571 Mm. 443 00:25:36,294.4625857 --> 00:25:40,8.7483 So that when you consume it, your body has some kind of resilience. 444 00:25:40,37.3197285 --> 00:25:40,723.0340142 Yes. 445 00:25:40,751.6054428 --> 00:25:40,951.6054428 That. 446 00:25:40,951.6054428 --> 00:25:42,751.6054428 Anyway, I thought that would be quite obvious. 447 00:25:42,865.8911571 --> 00:25:43,380.1768714 Yes. 448 00:25:43,837.3197285 --> 00:25:49,208.7483 And she would've known from her previous attempts at her husband how much she could dose Yes. 449 00:25:49,237.3197285 --> 00:25:50,37.3197285 And not die. 450 00:25:50,123.0340142 --> 00:25:50,751.6054428 And not die. 451 00:25:51,746.8435381 --> 00:25:58,146.8435381 Would you risk it a little bit to get the reward, which is totally to be gone bit gone innocent? Yes. 452 00:25:58,261.1292523 --> 00:26:03,546.8435381 Because if she was unwell, like, quite unwell, obviously poisoned, you could chalk it up to misadventure. 453 00:26:04,32.5578238 --> 00:26:05,489.7006809 Oh, definitely, definitely. 454 00:26:05,489.7006809 --> 00:26:15,346.8435381 But the fact that there was nothing in her system does no good for her and, and hasn't, no, so definitely Erin's illness, not matching the others. 455 00:26:15,346.8435381 --> 00:26:25,175.4149666 That was a bit of a, red flag, little bit of mild, definitely red flag, dehydration, and I think there is a big difference between I had to lie down versus I nearly died. 456 00:26:26,42.0816333 --> 00:26:27,42.0816333 Definitely. 457 00:26:28,213.5102047 --> 00:26:32,984.9387761 Then it comes to the point in the trial where everyone was like, what? Which was. 458 00:26:33,813.5102047 --> 00:26:34,842.0816333 Erin takes the stand. 459 00:26:35,413.5102047 --> 00:26:36,613.5102047 We didn't see that coming. 460 00:26:36,670.6530619 --> 00:26:37,584.9387761 No, not at all. 461 00:26:37,584.9387761 --> 00:26:49,956.3673476 Do you think, Claire, that that did her more of a disservice or all helped her case? I think it helped her, but not enough that it changed the outcome. 462 00:26:50,242.0816333 --> 00:26:54,127.795919 Yeah, because I think, oh, this sounds so mean. 463 00:26:54,127.795919 --> 00:26:54,499.2244904 Gab. 464 00:26:54,613.5102047 --> 00:26:55,299.2244904 No, say it. 465 00:26:55,870.6530619 --> 00:26:57,70.6530619 She came across as a loser. 466 00:26:57,899.2244904 --> 00:26:58,813.5102047 Yeah. 467 00:26:58,870.6530619 --> 00:27:00,42.0816333 Like she came across as. 468 00:27:00,989.7006809 --> 00:27:05,146.8435381 Sad, sad, lonely, stuck in your own thoughts. 469 00:27:05,146.8435381 --> 00:27:07,261.1292523 Talking to chat gpt as your therapist. 470 00:27:07,261.1292523 --> 00:27:14,689.7006809 Sounds a bit like me, But it did paint her more of a human, but it probably did her the disservice and showing on how. 471 00:27:15,684.9387761 --> 00:27:21,142.0816333 She's in this bad head space and you could see her really spiraling into doing something as crazy as this. 472 00:27:21,170.6530619 --> 00:27:21,484.9387761 Yeah. 473 00:27:21,484.9387761 --> 00:27:25,713.5102047 And I think it helped though, Colin, Mandy, her barrister show the panic. 474 00:27:25,761.1292523 --> 00:27:41,332.5578238 That was the point where a lot of the media said that it turned it for them, or it made them start questioning things because he really brought the panic that she was experiencing to life and that all her actions that were weird, strange, and the lies were because she was like. 475 00:27:41,746.8435381 --> 00:27:44,318.2721095 Oh my God, I have killed my in-laws. 476 00:27:45,3.9863952 --> 00:27:45,518.2721095 Like, yes. 477 00:27:45,632.5578238 --> 00:27:50,975.4149666 Like it painted this narrative where people can be like, Ooh, that is a bad situation to be in. 478 00:27:51,261.1292523 --> 00:27:51,975.4149666 Yes. 479 00:27:52,718.2721095 --> 00:27:57,327.795919 So she took the stand and that was a, couple of days. 480 00:27:57,327.795919 --> 00:27:59,356.3673476 That was about four to five days. 481 00:27:59,384.9387761 --> 00:27:59,756.3673476 Oh no. 482 00:27:59,842.0816333 --> 00:28:00,499.2244904 A whole week. 483 00:28:00,527.795919 --> 00:28:01,270.6530619 She was on the stand. 484 00:28:01,270.6530619 --> 00:28:02,642.0816333 She was on that whole week. 485 00:28:03,161.1292523 --> 00:28:06,589.7006809 It went for a long time and by the end her story changed so many times. 486 00:28:06,646.8435381 --> 00:28:06,789.7006809 Yeah. 487 00:28:06,789.7006809 --> 00:28:09,789.7006809 But like that happens when you've been questioned in different directions for a week. 488 00:28:09,789.7006809 --> 00:28:09,790.6530619 Yeah. 489 00:28:09,795.4149666 --> 00:28:10,270.6530619 You're exhausted. 490 00:28:10,565.8911571 --> 00:28:10,842.0816333 Yeah. 491 00:28:10,861.1292523 --> 00:28:15,475.4149666 You're not thinking twice the people asking you things in different ways makes you answer in different ways. 492 00:28:15,618.2721095 --> 00:28:15,875.4149666 Yeah. 493 00:28:16,237.3197285 --> 00:28:17,894.4625857 I would really struggle to be on the stand for a week. 494 00:28:19,237.3197285 --> 00:28:20,780.1768714 Yeah, I would forget what I'm saying. 495 00:28:20,780.1768714 --> 00:28:23,608.7483 And to the point of you want the conversation, you'd probably be so exhausted. 496 00:28:23,608.7483 --> 00:28:26,13.5102047 You're like, I'll say whatever, like the first day or so to drop it. 497 00:28:26,146.8435381 --> 00:28:28,65.8911571 Day or two, you're like, oh, this is okay. 498 00:28:28,94.4625857 --> 00:28:32,380.1768714 And then after that you're like, I've had enough deliberations. 499 00:28:32,380.1768714 --> 00:28:35,380.1768714 Yeah, deliberations, they deliberated for a week. 500 00:28:35,408.7483 --> 00:28:42,608.7483 The evidence was a mountain, not a mushroom, and it was guilty on all charges, and we were not expecting the verdict to come in today. 501 00:28:43,394.4625857 --> 00:28:44,680.1768714 No, not at all. 502 00:28:44,965.8911571 --> 00:28:49,565.8911571 Although it did get to Saturday and I was thinking this is longer than anticipated. 503 00:28:50,337.3197285 --> 00:29:03,365.8911571 It was longer, but we actually prepared for this week's episode, had the verdict not come in, that we were gonna talk about other famous or high profile crimes and the jury deliberation length and what you can take away from it. 504 00:29:03,365.8911571 --> 00:29:03,423.0340142 Yeah. 505 00:29:03,423.0340142 --> 00:29:05,51.6054428 So we actually had prepared that. 506 00:29:05,356.3673476 --> 00:29:08,127.795919 Obviously not needed now, but we may, we may just stood out at some point. 507 00:29:08,127.795919 --> 00:29:08,699.2244904 We may. 508 00:29:09,13.5102047 --> 00:29:20,99.2244904 But for me, I thought it was still that they were like it was gonna be a not guilty or not that, not proven, but we know you did it kind of outcome until it was a verdict today and no questions. 509 00:29:20,99.2244904 --> 00:29:21,270.6530619 And I was like, ah, she's guilty. 510 00:29:22,784.9387761 --> 00:29:23,442.0816333 Yeah. 511 00:29:23,813.5102047 --> 00:29:24,442.0816333 And. 512 00:29:25,142.0816333 --> 00:29:27,856.3673476 She showed no emotion, no emotion. 513 00:29:28,770.6530619 --> 00:29:32,342.0816333 Prior to the jury, she had a thumbs up from her defense barrister. 514 00:29:32,570.6530619 --> 00:29:36,142.0816333 She was exchanging words with her friend that had been supporting her throughout the trial. 515 00:29:36,456.3673476 --> 00:29:38,313.5102047 Otherwise, verdict came in. 516 00:29:38,570.6530619 --> 00:29:41,884.9387761 She was stoic, she was quiet, and that was it. 517 00:29:42,999.2244904 --> 00:29:43,856.3673476 A bit of a non-event. 518 00:29:43,884.9387761 --> 00:29:47,942.0816333 However, I do find it interesting she'd said to that friend, I'll see you after. 519 00:29:48,299.2244904 --> 00:29:52,299.2244904 Which sounds quite confident that everything was gonna be okay and it wasn't. 520 00:29:52,699.2244904 --> 00:29:53,242.0816333 Yeah. 521 00:29:53,337.3197285 --> 00:30:03,394.4625857 Could you imagine the sliding doors moment of I could be going home to sleep in my bed tonight and potentially writing a book to, I'm gonna spend the next 30 years at Dame Frost. 522 00:30:04,108.7483 --> 00:30:11,594.4625857 So what happens then? We've just, we've heard that there is gonna be a docuseries that, and I'm sure there's gonna be so many more. 523 00:30:12,480.1768714 --> 00:30:20,965.8911571 Does she benefit from that? Should they have to get permission from her to run the story and does she I don't think so. 524 00:30:20,965.8911571 --> 00:30:23,318.2721095 I think there's things that stop her from benefiting from it. 525 00:30:23,318.2721095 --> 00:30:24,661.1292523 She doesn't get royalties. 526 00:30:24,832.5578238 --> 00:30:25,32.5578238 No. 527 00:30:25,32.5578238 --> 00:30:26,203.9863952 I think her husband would though. 528 00:30:26,203.9863952 --> 00:30:26,461.1292523 Interesting. 529 00:30:26,832.5578238 --> 00:30:28,27.795919 Or maybe Anne Wilkins would. 530 00:30:28,175.4149666 --> 00:30:28,775.4149666 Would as well. 531 00:30:28,780.1768714 --> 00:30:28,903.9863952 Yeah. 532 00:30:28,970.6530619 --> 00:30:29,246.8435381 Okay. 533 00:30:29,318.2721095 --> 00:30:33,80.1768714 So because it'd probably be selling their story. 534 00:30:33,480.1768714 --> 00:30:39,23.0340142 I see from their perspective, their perspective, or they'll do it completely fictional and change the names and Yeah. 535 00:30:39,194.4625857 --> 00:30:42,937.3197285 That, but what's coming next? So August, she'll be back for sentencing. 536 00:30:43,80.1768714 --> 00:30:43,623.0340142 Yes. 537 00:30:44,80.1768714 --> 00:30:53,861.1292523 And the sentence based on what the media is saying is that it's likely to be concurrent, so we'll all run at the same time and it'll likely be 30 years. 538 00:30:53,889.7006809 --> 00:30:54,489.7006809 Wow. 539 00:30:54,689.7006809 --> 00:30:56,632.5578238 She'll miss her kids' entire life growing up. 540 00:30:56,718.2721095 --> 00:30:57,61.1292523 Yeah. 541 00:30:57,61.1292523 --> 00:30:57,318.2721095 Everything. 542 00:30:57,318.2721095 --> 00:30:58,603.9863952 So she's 50 now. 543 00:30:58,918.2721095 --> 00:31:01,146.8435381 She'll, she might be 80 before she gets outta prison. 544 00:31:01,146.8435381 --> 00:31:01,718.2721095 It's over. 545 00:31:03,3.9863952 --> 00:31:09,832.5578238 It's pretty, I mean, she's done something horrific, but that's, it's pretty sad when you think about how long the sentences are her life is done now. 546 00:31:10,89.7006809 --> 00:31:10,489.7006809 Yeah. 547 00:31:10,613.5102047 --> 00:31:11,184.9387761 It's sad. 548 00:31:11,184.9387761 --> 00:31:16,337.3197285 And I said, we've made a lot of fun of her this episode, but this is a sad situation that she's in. 549 00:31:16,423.0340142 --> 00:31:16,908.7483 It is. 550 00:31:16,908.7483 --> 00:31:18,137.3197285 And for her family as well. 551 00:31:18,194.4625857 --> 00:31:18,594.4625857 Yeah. 552 00:31:18,965.8911571 --> 00:31:23,651.6054428 Where does this leave us? I guess it was a lesson in how not to commit the perfect crime. 553 00:31:24,232.5578238 --> 00:31:28,775.4149666 Unless you wanna get caught by Google search history, CCTV and your own group chat. 554 00:31:29,346.8435381 --> 00:31:40,832.5578238 We've had fake cancer, a dehydrator, Google searches, so many lies, and the boldest pair of white pants in this side of a fashion emergency. 555 00:31:42,32.5578238 --> 00:31:44,718.2721095 So gab, it's been a ride. 556 00:31:45,746.8435381 --> 00:31:50,746.8435381 It has, and we'll have a think about what our next trial that we're gonna cover is. 557 00:31:50,803.9863952 --> 00:31:55,375.4149666 I know so many choices, but you know what, this has been truly a juicy one. 558 00:31:56,363.6054428 --> 00:32:01,277.8911571 Okay, gab, I wanna talk to you about something really difficult, but I think is actually really important. 559 00:32:01,563.6054428 --> 00:32:03,77.8911571 You might have seen this in the headlines. 560 00:32:03,306.4625857 --> 00:32:12,273.1292523 Joshua Brown, a childcare educator in Victoria, has been charged with over 70 horrific child abuse offenses across multiple Victorian childcare centers. 561 00:32:13,306.4625857 --> 00:32:14,449.3197285 Yeah, I've seen it. 562 00:32:14,449.3197285 --> 00:32:23,277.8911571 I think anyone, I don't know how far and wide it's gone in the media, but certainly in Victoria this has been huge and honestly, it's so gut wrenching. 563 00:32:24,192.1768714 --> 00:32:35,820.7483 What is quite horrifying really, is that there are so many families involved here and that also were potentially affected and don't quite know it yet, so thousands of parents. 564 00:32:36,106.4625857 --> 00:32:39,677.8911571 Naturally are now living every parent's worst nightmare. 565 00:32:39,677.8911571 --> 00:32:40,649.3197285 A hundred percent. 566 00:32:40,992.1768714 --> 00:32:43,935.0340142 And we're not gonna be going into the detail of what's been alleged. 567 00:32:43,935.0340142 --> 00:32:45,192.1768714 It's too triggering. 568 00:32:45,535.0340142 --> 00:32:51,706.4625857 But I actually think gab, it presents a really interesting discussion, which is the fallout, the government response. 569 00:32:51,735.0340142 --> 00:32:55,135.0340142 It's been swift, and some are saying it's been reactive. 570 00:32:55,163.6054428 --> 00:33:00,677.8911571 Others are saying it's very welcomed, particularly those that are survivors of child abuse. 571 00:33:01,563.6054428 --> 00:33:03,877.8911571 The bands are being introduced. 572 00:33:03,992.1768714 --> 00:33:22,106.4625857 Many centers have made decisions and made public announcements of how of changes they will be making, but it's also side lining men who work in the industry and it's highlighting the obscene pay some of the executives who run groups of these childcare centers and what they're receiving. 573 00:33:22,306.4625857 --> 00:33:22,620.7483 Yeah. 574 00:33:22,649.3197285 --> 00:33:24,135.0340142 So many layers to this. 575 00:33:24,592.1768714 --> 00:33:27,506.4625857 So let's start with what the response has been. 576 00:33:27,506.4625857 --> 00:33:42,220.7483 What's the government said? Victorian Premier Jacinta Allen called the case Sickening and fast track reforms, and she announced that from the 26th of September this year, personal phones, we banned on the floor in the centers. 577 00:33:42,763.6054428 --> 00:33:49,658.8435381 They've, she's organized an urgent review by Jay Weather Real to investigate what's occurring and provide other recommendations. 578 00:33:50,415.9863952 --> 00:34:02,587.4149666 National reforms that were being discussed at National Cabinet are being sped up, including a National childcare worker register, a mandated use of CH Center issued devices for photos. 579 00:34:02,787.4149666 --> 00:34:11,320.7483 But one thing that's important to note is that the offender did have an active working with Children's Check and had been working in the industry for a very long time. 580 00:34:11,520.7483 --> 00:34:17,320.7483 So even this register might not have done anything because it was only until recently he was identified as an offender. 581 00:34:17,758.8435381 --> 00:34:28,844.5578238 Yeah, and I think as well with this is, yes, it could be all good and true to ban phones on the floor, but who's actually going to be there, making sure that happens every single day. 582 00:34:29,44.5578238 --> 00:34:34,44.5578238 And also to say that banning phones is gonna solve the problem. 583 00:34:34,458.8435381 --> 00:34:36,363.6054428 Is there other ways? There's so many ways. 584 00:34:36,363.6054428 --> 00:34:38,725.5102047 Evil people, these people can take advantage of these children. 585 00:34:39,82.6530619 --> 00:34:39,711.2244904 So many things. 586 00:34:39,854.0816333 --> 00:34:54,768.3673476 The other thing I was gonna say is bringing in requirements for having like surveillance or making webcams available to parents that could either accelerate abuse of more kids, 'cause the feed could be used inappropriately, or it could create a really uncomfortable environment for educators. 587 00:34:55,35.0340142 --> 00:35:01,549.3197285 We've got, a friend I'm thinking about in particular who's worked before at places where screens are monitored. 588 00:35:01,577.8911571 --> 00:35:03,892.1768714 It's not dissimilar, someone watching your work. 589 00:35:03,892.1768714 --> 00:35:07,701.7006809 I know, sometimes if you're at the office working, you feel like someone's over your shoulder. 590 00:35:07,701.7006809 --> 00:35:08,787.4149666 It can be quite intimidating. 591 00:35:08,787.4149666 --> 00:35:12,577.8911571 Imagine being on surveillance for the entire, eight to 10 hours. 592 00:35:12,663.6054428 --> 00:35:12,892.1768714 Yeah. 593 00:35:12,892.1768714 --> 00:35:14,6.4625857 It'd be so uncomfortable. 594 00:35:14,292.1768714 --> 00:35:14,692.1768714 It would. 595 00:35:15,692.1768714 --> 00:35:22,63.6054428 Some of these issues, like staff freely moving between centers has been flagged years ago, but that's just part of nature. 596 00:35:22,92.1768714 --> 00:35:23,606.4625857 Like it is a lower paid industry. 597 00:35:23,606.4625857 --> 00:35:31,215.9863952 It's it wouldn't be uncommon that people might move to work another center for like that, you know how nurses get paid extra for taking up an a bank shift. 598 00:35:31,473.1292523 --> 00:35:31,730.2721095 Yeah. 599 00:35:31,758.8435381 --> 00:35:34,520.7483 It could be like the same, oh exactly right. 600 00:35:35,530.2721095 --> 00:35:49,868.3673476 So what is the sector actually doing about it? Inspire early learning has banned male educators from changing nappies, and they've also included guidelines to include no unnecessary physical contact, even comfort needs. 601 00:35:50,673.1292523 --> 00:35:57,787.4149666 Parental style consent, and some parents are demanding that all men be banned from childhood education or working at their children's center. 602 00:35:58,44.5578238 --> 00:36:00,939.795919 This is where it really frustrates me. 603 00:36:00,939.795919 --> 00:36:13,739.795919 I understand that these parents are scared, from one sick person to generalize the whole gender of people not being able to do their jobs is actually. 604 00:36:14,68.3673476 --> 00:36:15,268.3673476 So backward. 605 00:36:15,754.0816333 --> 00:36:19,896.9387761 I think at the moment only 3% of the people in the industry are men. 606 00:36:20,296.9387761 --> 00:36:22,182.6530619 So it's already a small handful. 607 00:36:22,477.8911571 --> 00:36:37,525.5102047 We are women looking at, from a gender perspective, by removing men being able to do these things, it's actually emphasizing these old traditional gender roles where the woman is a caregiver. 608 00:36:37,706.4625857 --> 00:36:38,106.4625857 And. 609 00:36:38,406.4625857 --> 00:36:41,749.3197285 The man can't do it, and I just think it's going the wrong way. 610 00:36:42,6.4625857 --> 00:36:44,92.1768714 If you're saying that women can only be trusted with care. 611 00:36:44,963.6054428 --> 00:36:46,935.0340142 It's sexist, but it's bad policy. 612 00:36:47,335.0340142 --> 00:36:50,392.1768714 So now brilliant male educators might be viewed with suspicion. 613 00:36:50,477.8911571 --> 00:36:50,677.8911571 Yeah. 614 00:36:50,677.8911571 --> 00:36:55,477.8911571 But also they will be deterred from going into this industry where it's so limited. 615 00:36:55,858.8435381 --> 00:37:00,54.0816333 I saw an article today which was talking about. 616 00:37:00,711.2244904 --> 00:37:02,892.1768714 Man which I can name him 'cause he's named in the article. 617 00:37:02,892.1768714 --> 00:37:04,6.4625857 His name is Ben Munro. 618 00:37:04,530.2721095 --> 00:37:05,415.9863952 And he's 27. 619 00:37:05,415.9863952 --> 00:37:20,530.2721095 He's a childcare worker and he was talking about all the concerns he has now about his future career, and he said that he finds himself thinking twice about things he's never thought of before, like helping a kid put on their shoes or even comforting a child who's upset. 620 00:37:21,15.9863952 --> 00:37:23,473.1292523 Imagine having to second guess yourself. 621 00:37:23,863.6054428 --> 00:37:27,692.1768714 All the time in something that you're an expert at and you're just there to do your job. 622 00:37:27,806.4625857 --> 00:37:28,206.4625857 Yeah. 623 00:37:28,349.3197285 --> 00:37:30,835.0340142 So that's the immediate impact for those that work in the sector. 624 00:37:30,977.8911571 --> 00:37:36,35.0340142 But it also sends a message to the children that gender is segregated. 625 00:37:36,35.0340142 --> 00:37:49,892.1768714 So if only women can provide the caregiving role, and we make men feel unwanted in the space, we lose role models for kids and we're effectively saying, dad needs to be off doing the manly jobs. 626 00:37:50,677.8911571 --> 00:37:54,77.8911571 And women are the ones that nurture and teach children. 627 00:37:54,277.8911571 --> 00:37:57,106.4625857 And that's how we have things like the gender pay gap. 628 00:37:57,392.1768714 --> 00:37:57,992.1768714 Exactly. 629 00:37:57,992.1768714 --> 00:38:01,420.7483 If anything, it's just fueling a fire that we're trying to put out. 630 00:38:02,806.4625857 --> 00:38:07,406.4625857 So you mentioned earlier about the executives and the salaries. 631 00:38:07,406.4625857 --> 00:38:12,706.4625857 How does that come into play with this? These salaries are exorbitant. 632 00:38:13,77.8911571 --> 00:38:29,849.3197285 And one thing to say, gab, is this sector used to not be so profitable, and I have a big bug bear here, which is it isn't rational that these CEOs could be earning as much as a bank. 633 00:38:30,49.3197285 --> 00:38:35,563.6054428 The CEO of Virgin, a global airline, earns $2 million a year. 634 00:38:36,635.0340142 --> 00:38:41,777.8911571 The CEO of NAB who looks after like 30,000 employees? Yes. 635 00:38:42,92.1768714 --> 00:38:45,606.4625857 One of our big four banks earns 6 million a year. 636 00:38:46,292.1768714 --> 00:38:57,6.4625857 How much do you think the CEO of ga, which is a large childcare provider, earns you would think it's much less like ballpark. 637 00:38:57,6.4625857 --> 00:38:59,806.4625857 How much do you think under a mill, over a mill. 638 00:39:01,77.8911571 --> 00:39:01,477.8911571 Per year. 639 00:39:01,477.8911571 --> 00:39:02,835.0340142 Per year? Maybe. 640 00:39:03,520.7483 --> 00:39:04,63.6054428 I don't know. 641 00:39:04,415.9863952 --> 00:39:05,101.7006809 Not a meal. 642 00:39:05,158.8435381 --> 00:39:06,73.1292523 I would say less. 643 00:39:06,130.2721095 --> 00:39:06,501.7006809 Yeah. 644 00:39:06,815.9863952 --> 00:39:10,482.6530619 So if you said to me, how much would these CEOs be earning? I'd say maybe like six. 645 00:39:10,482.6530619 --> 00:39:10,625.5102047 I agree. 646 00:39:10,654.0816333 --> 00:39:12,54.0816333 Maybe five, 600,000. 647 00:39:12,82.6530619 --> 00:39:12,396.9387761 Yep. 648 00:39:12,520.7483 --> 00:39:15,406.4625857 It's a large scale chain of centers, 2.6 649 00:39:15,406.4625857 --> 00:39:15,835.0340142 million. 650 00:39:16,492.1768714 --> 00:39:17,720.7483 That's just ridiculous. 651 00:39:17,720.7483 --> 00:39:18,320.7483 Claire. 652 00:39:18,663.6054428 --> 00:39:21,577.8911571 The only, especially knowing what salaries that the workers are on. 653 00:39:21,577.8911571 --> 00:39:22,835.0340142 This is just ludicrous. 654 00:39:22,920.7483 --> 00:39:24,749.3197285 A childcare educator. 655 00:39:25,96.9387761 --> 00:39:31,125.5102047 Can earn 45,000 to $50,000 a year, and if you have further qualifications, that could go up to about $80,000 a year. 656 00:39:32,468.3673476 --> 00:39:33,325.5102047 Big difference. 657 00:39:33,639.795919 --> 00:39:43,96.9387761 It is a huge difference, and I think one of the key issues here is we are allowing the centers or the sector to be reactive. 658 00:39:43,268.3673476 --> 00:39:43,354.0816333 Mm-hmm. 659 00:39:43,582.6530619 --> 00:39:46,39.795919 So they're bringing in changes to tinker around the edge. 660 00:39:46,311.2244904 --> 00:39:49,282.6530619 The biggest issue here is corporate social responsibility. 661 00:39:49,596.9387761 --> 00:39:52,739.795919 You have allowed this sector to be profit driven. 662 00:39:53,25.5102047 --> 00:40:01,896.9387761 How do you make profit? You run at a lower cost if you didn't use to make profit, and suddenly you're able to pay your CEO $3.6 663 00:40:01,896.9387761 --> 00:40:04,796.9387761 million a year and provide returns to shareholders. 664 00:40:06,506.4625857 --> 00:40:07,77.8911571 It doesn't math. 665 00:40:07,106.4625857 --> 00:40:07,306.4625857 Yeah. 666 00:40:07,306.4625857 --> 00:40:08,477.8911571 Something doesn't make sense here. 667 00:40:08,649.3197285 --> 00:40:21,363.6054428 And I think the biggest problem is they run on KPIs, they run on performance, they run on utilization, which is, do we have every single spot in the center field? Are we managing our staffing costs? And you are creating these. 668 00:40:21,558.8435381 --> 00:40:27,301.7006809 Really awful environments for these educators that have to try and just get it done with what they have. 669 00:40:27,330.2721095 --> 00:40:27,415.9863952 Yeah. 670 00:40:27,415.9863952 --> 00:40:28,987.4149666 And they're probably disease ridden as well. 671 00:40:28,987.4149666 --> 00:40:31,958.8435381 All these kids getting sick, the C classrooms are full. 672 00:40:31,958.8435381 --> 00:40:32,44.5578238 Yes. 673 00:40:32,473.1292523 --> 00:40:34,587.4149666 It's not a pretty place. 674 00:40:34,587.4149666 --> 00:40:38,415.9863952 But also, and from what I understand for the friends that I do have with kids. 675 00:40:38,935.0340142 --> 00:40:41,620.7483 Childcare centers are incredibly difficult to get into. 676 00:40:41,963.6054428 --> 00:40:42,363.6054428 Very expensive. 677 00:40:42,363.6054428 --> 00:40:47,649.3197285 If you find one that's, they are upwards of towards $200 a day per child, it's so much. 678 00:40:47,649.3197285 --> 00:40:50,735.0340142 For some people it's probably, is it even worth me working? Yeah. 679 00:40:50,877.8911571 --> 00:41:00,963.6054428 And the other thing I'll say, and I know I sound like a dog with a bone like this, but I actually think the root issue of this is that it has become a profit driven model that isn't about Yeah. 680 00:41:01,77.8911571 --> 00:41:01,792.1768714 Quality. 681 00:41:01,935.0340142 --> 00:41:02,677.8911571 It's about. 682 00:41:03,820.7483 --> 00:41:07,49.3197285 Operational efficiency is you create environments. 683 00:41:07,49.3197285 --> 00:41:10,592.1768714 So you create a process which says two people must be present when changing nappies. 684 00:41:10,906.4625857 --> 00:41:15,163.6054428 But then you don't allow the resourcing to be comfortable, two people to do it. 685 00:41:15,306.4625857 --> 00:41:23,39.795919 So you have a staff member who's forced to sign off or kind of be there like, oh yeah, I'm supervising, but really I'm watching three kids outside. 686 00:41:23,306.4625857 --> 00:41:26,592.1768714 Whilst I kind of glance into the room every now and then watch what's happening. 687 00:41:26,649.3197285 --> 00:41:27,106.4625857 Yes. 688 00:41:27,163.6054428 --> 00:41:29,877.8911571 So that's how you force it out in practice. 689 00:41:30,592.1768714 --> 00:41:43,135.0340142 And how do you solve this problem, gab? How would you solve this? How would I solve this? How would you solve these? I would put the CEOs in jail. 690 00:41:43,392.1768714 --> 00:41:45,306.4625857 I would have them charged with criminal offenses. 691 00:41:45,420.7483 --> 00:41:46,135.0340142 Oh, I love it. 692 00:41:46,135.0340142 --> 00:41:48,687.4149666 If they allow their company. 693 00:41:49,6.4625857 --> 00:42:02,320.7483 To have an environment where evil can occur, evil can happen, but if you create an environment where they thrive, you go to jail, it cor, I mean, if you are earning that much money, there has got to be consequences for that individual. 694 00:42:02,320.7483 --> 00:42:03,149.3197285 A hundred percent. 695 00:42:03,149.3197285 --> 00:42:04,292.1768714 It's a very purest approach. 696 00:42:04,292.1768714 --> 00:42:04,749.3197285 I get it. 697 00:42:04,777.8911571 --> 00:42:15,520.7483 But I think something needs to change and the way you change it, if they did it in the, in the banking commission, if you do something that has really poor outcomes for customers in banks, you'll go to jail. 698 00:42:16,958.8435381 --> 00:42:23,673.1292523 Maybe jail is too far, but there has to be a consequence enough for it to mean something for them. 699 00:42:24,15.9863952 --> 00:42:30,487.4149666 When you're earning that much money, I mean, a fine's gonna mean nothing, isn't it? A $50,000 fine means nothing. 700 00:42:30,658.8435381 --> 00:42:32,201.7006809 Or a $1 million final. 701 00:42:32,201.7006809 --> 00:42:33,430.2721095 My company means nothing. 702 00:42:33,658.8435381 --> 00:42:42,830.2721095 But if you're gonna take my liberty away, because I decided to force educators to be put in unsafe environments. 703 00:42:42,915.9863952 --> 00:42:44,915.9863952 Yeah, yeah. 704 00:42:44,915.9863952 --> 00:42:45,949.3197285 We don't have to agree, but. 705 00:42:46,949.3197285 --> 00:42:48,777.8911571 Oh, I didn't realize to be so passionate about that. 706 00:42:48,835.0340142 --> 00:42:49,635.0340142 I know. 707 00:42:50,623.2244904 --> 00:42:53,537.5102047 Okay, gab, I think that's all we've got time for today. 708 00:42:53,651.795919 --> 00:42:58,366.0816333 I know we could really talk about the Erin Patterson case I think for hours and hours. 709 00:42:58,508.9387761 --> 00:42:58,908.9387761 I know. 710 00:42:59,280.3673476 --> 00:43:00,108.9387761 Oh, it was good. 711 00:43:00,108.9387761 --> 00:43:04,623.2244904 But it was so great to just be able to talk honestly about it that I enjoyed this. 712 00:43:04,623.2244904 --> 00:43:07,413.7006809 I've been looking forward to being able to just say what we really thinking. 713 00:43:07,442.2721095 --> 00:43:07,756.5578238 Oh yeah. 714 00:43:07,756.5578238 --> 00:43:08,613.7006809 And unleash. 715 00:43:08,680.3673476 --> 00:43:09,337.5102047 And we'll be back. 716 00:43:09,451.795919 --> 00:43:11,508.9387761 We regular programming early next week. 717 00:43:11,566.0816333 --> 00:43:12,51.795919 Yes. 718 00:43:12,80.3673476 --> 00:43:13,794.6530619 So thanks for listening. 719 00:43:14,32.7483 --> 00:43:20,518.4625857 And please follow us and like us and share with your friends so that way we can keep spitting.

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Death Cap Diaries Finale – Erin Patterson Guilty Verdict, Murder Trial Breakdown & Victoria Child Abuse Crisis

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Death Cap Diaries Finale – Erin Patterson Guilty Verdict, Murder Trial Breakdown & Victoria Child Abuse Crisis