Free Speech on Trial, Iran-Israel Ceasefire & The Pressure to Always Reply and Erin Patterson trial final days

Spin Cycle Episode 16: 

This week on Spin Cycle, Gab and Claire break down the headlines and the hidden narratives behind them—from the courtroom to your group chat.

Here’s what’s spinning:

• When Free Speech Gets You Fired: We unpack the Antoinette Lattouf v ABC court battle. Why was a journalist sacked over a single Instagram repost? What does this mean for free speech, political pressure on media, and the independence of Australia’s national broadcaster? We cover the email campaign that led to her firing, the Federal Court’s ruling, and the million-dollar legal bill now facing the ABC.

• Iran & Israel: Ceasefire or Stalemate? From missile strikes to nuclear fears, we break down how tensions between Iran and Israel exploded, the global power plays behind the headlines, and why a “ceasefire” doesn’t mean peace is around the corner. Includes a one-minute explainer on the Iranian Revolution, the US’s shifting policy, and the shadow war for regional control.

• The Pressure to Always Reply: Why does it feel so hard to keep up with constant notifications, group chats, and unread messages? We get real about the psychology of leaving people on ‘read’, boundaries in the digital age, and how to protect your social battery.

• Death Cap Diaries: The Erin Patterson Mushroom Trial Update: As the high-profile Victorian trial heads to the jury, we sum up the judge’s instructions, the inconsistencies in evidence, and what’s at stake. (Reminder: commentary only—innocent until proven guilty.)

Plus, our recs of the week—why you should binge “The Better Sister” on Amazon Prime and tips for a cozy Tassie weekend.

If you enjoy Spin Cycle, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, and share with a friend who needs a media spin detox.

Spin Cycle: Pop culture, power plays, and a healthy dose of skepticism—one headline at a time.

Disclaimer: All legal commentary reflects evidence heard in open court and public reporting. We are not offering news, facts, or verdicts. If you’re a juror, witness, or involved in any active case, please don’t listen until after the verdict.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
picture this, a mutual friend of Claire and I sent her a photo to the group chat this week, and it was of this friend surrounded by a table full of baked goods bottled drinks, essentially all the snacks you could ever need.

(00:18):
And what I'm told is it's because there's something called a priority pass.
What is this, Claire? And are you the one that's enabled this? One of my favorite things in my life is the credit card, and this is the one where I got the phone insurance.
I hold it nearest and dearest, and I am currently aggrieved by my credit card because they had the audacity to remove benefits that I greatly value without reducing the annual fee.

(00:48):
So I've been on a bit of a protest.
Oh, you have to tell me what happened.
I went to Tasmania on the weekend.
Yes.
And the priority pass is unlimited and unlimited for you and a guest.
I took it upon myself to go to all of the eateries that's included.
And every time you go to an eatery with a guest, you can spend $72.
I went to the mall on the way out there.

(01:09):
That's where I saw our friend.
What do you mean? And then on the way back, all of them.
Yeah.
So I went eight times.
Because I could.
And what did you, were you full by the end of it? No, I was, or you can buy anything, you could get takeaway.
Yeah.
As I was coming back to Melbourne, I went to this one place and I didn't need anything.
I didn't wanna get more food that, like I don't wanna buy anything that I'm not gonna use because that's not in the spirit of my protest.

(01:32):
But you know what, they probably sell coffee beans.
And last week we talked about that cup of coffee could be $12.
So buy a bag of beans.
That would be the airport.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I went up to the counter and I'm putting it through and scanned my thing, gets my boarding pass, and he is like, do you have a guess? I'm like, yes, a guess please.
I could spend $72 and not $36.

(01:55):
And he is like, where's your guest? I'm by myself.
What did you say? I just pointed at some random person in the distance to say, my guest is over there, and he is like, where is this guest? And I'm like, why do you care? Just put it through.
What? I didn't honestly say that.
No, I just pointed at some random person.
No.
But like why would they just not let you through? He's probably following some policy or something.

(02:16):
Maybe more people hacking the system anyway, I was like, yeah, my guest is just over there.
They're just waiting for me.
And he is okay, what do you want? I'd like a one kilo bag of coffee beans.
So obviously he knows.
There was no guess.
I just wanted the beans.
Oh, I love this.
What were you saying is changing in your inclusions or in the policy? They're capping the amount of visits you can do to the eateries.

(02:38):
So you can only go 15 times in a whole year.
In a year.
And I went eight times in one.
In one.
One day trip.
In three days.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So anyway, I am aggrieve because.
Shrink's finally hit it's hit and I'm not okay with that.
So I protested, and I think I did a bit of damage.
I'm glad you did coming up this week on spin cycle, free speech versus job security, as we unpack the Antoinette Latu case and what it means for media independence, the shadow of war between Iran and Israel, and how it escalated, who's really pulling the strings and what ceasefire means for the region.

(03:13):
And the psychology of leaving people on red and why constant connection feels so demanding.
Plus the latest in the Erin Patterson mushroom trial as the jury gets the final word.
.33333333Let's get spinning, Welcome to Spin Cycle, where we dig into the stories shaping the world and take a closer look at the patterns, power plays. 58 00:03:46,930.33333333 --> 00:03:54,640.33333333 And yes, the biases hiding in plain sight where Gab and Claire, two friends with MBAs, A lot of opinions and a healthy amount of skepticism. 59 00:03:54,940.33333333 --> 00:03:57,940.33333333 We are here to help you think twice and maybe have a few laughs. 60 00:03:58,240.33333333 --> 00:03:59,95.33333333 Let's get spinning. 61 00:03:59,385.84353741 --> 00:04:04,575.84353741 but first gab, what's top of mind for you this week? So I started and finished. 62 00:04:04,920.84353741 --> 00:04:09,870.84353741 As new series, and I wonder if you've watched it actually, it's called The Better Sister. 63 00:04:10,140.84353741 --> 00:04:11,40.84353741 No, I've seen it though. 64 00:04:11,400.84353741 --> 00:04:12,120.84353741 Oh, okay. 65 00:04:12,220.84353741 --> 00:04:16,600.84353741 I'm gonna take this time to highly recommend this to you and to our listeners as well. 66 00:04:16,630.84353741 --> 00:04:20,590.84353741 So The Better Sister is on Amazon Prime. 67 00:04:20,770.84353741 --> 00:04:24,760.84353741 It is about two sisters who are estranged. 68 00:04:24,940.84353741 --> 00:04:27,760.84353741 One's called Chloe, who is Jessica Bill. 69 00:04:28,150.84353741 --> 00:04:31,750.84353741 You all know Jessica, bill, and the other is Nikki, who is Elizabeth Banks. 70 00:04:31,750.84353741 --> 00:04:35,310.84353741 A really cool dynamic between such two big names. 71 00:04:35,650.84353741 --> 00:04:49,480.84353741 And in the show they brought together because the husband of Jessica Beal's character passes away, and Nikki, who's her sister, is actually the ex-wife of him anyway. 72 00:04:49,875.84353741 --> 00:04:51,315.84353741 I'm not gonna explain any more detail. 73 00:04:51,315.84353741 --> 00:04:58,875.84353741 You need to watch it for yourself, but it follows essentially that investigation around the death of the husband and I binged it. 74 00:04:58,875.84353741 --> 00:05:00,525.84353741 I think it's eight episodes. 75 00:05:00,615.84353741 --> 00:05:01,935.84353741 It is absolutely worth it. 76 00:05:01,935.84353741 --> 00:05:03,735.84353741 And with the weather, how it is at the moment. 77 00:05:04,65.84353741 --> 00:05:06,915.84353741 What better way to spend a night cozy on the couch. 78 00:05:07,425.84353741 --> 00:05:08,115.84353741 Oh, I love that. 79 00:05:08,355.84353741 --> 00:05:08,655.84353741 Yeah. 80 00:05:08,655.84353741 --> 00:05:15,315.84353741 And what about you? What's top of mind? Top of mind? I just got back from Tasmania and I had the best time. 81 00:05:15,495.84353741 --> 00:05:16,125.84353741 Amazing. 82 00:05:16,125.84353741 --> 00:05:19,35.84353741 It was my first time going and I absolutely loved it. 83 00:05:19,65.84353741 --> 00:05:19,305.84353741 Wait. 84 00:05:19,635.84353741 --> 00:05:22,65.84353741 You've never been to Tazzie before? No, it was my first trip. 85 00:05:22,425.84353741 --> 00:05:23,85.84353741 Oh, Claire. 86 00:05:23,85.84353741 --> 00:05:24,525.84353741 It was like going overseas. 87 00:05:24,915.84353741 --> 00:05:27,165.84353741 Oh, and it was overseas? Technically. 88 00:05:27,195.84353741 --> 00:05:28,395.84353741 Technically it was overseas. 89 00:05:28,435.84353741 --> 00:05:34,165.84353741 What was your favorite part or place? Or did you spend most of it in one place? Just in Hobart? Yeah. 90 00:05:34,165.84353741 --> 00:05:35,685.84353741 And then had a hire car. 91 00:05:36,75.84353741 --> 00:05:36,525.84353741 Oh my god. 92 00:05:36,525.84353741 --> 00:05:37,425.84353741 Gab the car. 93 00:05:37,695.84353741 --> 00:05:39,195.84353741 High car was a Ford Ranger. 94 00:05:40,35.84353741 --> 00:05:40,995.84353741 It's huge. 95 00:05:41,95.84353741 --> 00:05:41,935.84353741 That's tough. 96 00:05:41,965.84353741 --> 00:05:42,595.84353741 That's a ute. 97 00:05:42,805.84353741 --> 00:05:44,125.84353741 It was like an armored vehicle. 98 00:05:44,125.84353741 --> 00:05:45,55.84353741 It was huge. 99 00:05:45,145.84353741 --> 00:05:50,365.84353741 Perfect for, is this another hack of yours? No, it was a lucky car hire car. 100 00:05:50,425.84353741 --> 00:05:50,785.84353741 Yeah. 101 00:05:51,595.84353741 --> 00:05:54,385.84353741 So I went to Port Arthur, which I absolutely loved. 102 00:05:54,665.84353741 --> 00:05:57,95.84353741 So much history there in such a short period of time. 103 00:05:57,845.84353741 --> 00:06:03,845.84353741 Went to the ENT River and some of the wineries and went to one of the most beautiful winery and had a cellar. 104 00:06:04,335.84353741 --> 00:06:07,65.84353741 Tour and really breaking down the wines, which I loved. 105 00:06:07,305.84353741 --> 00:06:08,55.84353741 Amazing. 106 00:06:08,115.84353741 --> 00:06:09,885.84353741 And the food was amazing. 107 00:06:09,915.84353741 --> 00:06:11,355.84353741 It was just, it just tastes better. 108 00:06:11,605.84353741 --> 00:06:17,155.84353741 Azzie is so great and definitely a great one for a weekend away, especially if you are living in Melbourne. 109 00:06:17,155.84353741 --> 00:06:18,235.84353741 It's so close. 110 00:06:18,235.84353741 --> 00:06:19,165.84353741 It's something now flight. 111 00:06:19,195.84353741 --> 00:06:20,65.84353741 It's so close. 112 00:06:20,65.84353741 --> 00:06:23,225.84353741 And this time of year, a nice glass of red wine. 113 00:06:23,525.84353741 --> 00:06:24,215.84353741 Amazing. 114 00:06:24,270.84353741 --> 00:06:24,560.84353741 Yeah. 115 00:06:24,580.84353741 --> 00:06:26,465.84353741 So it was really, really good time. 116 00:06:27,465.84353741 --> 00:06:38,145.84353741 Gab, what I wanna talk to you about is today the court ruled in Antoinette's favor, and this case has been a long time coming, but it's been a huge wake up call. 117 00:06:38,595.84353741 --> 00:06:42,15.84353741 And just for our listeners, I'll take you through what's actually happened, but. 118 00:06:42,975.84353741 --> 00:06:49,875.84353741 Journalist Antoinette Latu was hired for a five day contract with the A BC Radio Sydney in December, 2023. 119 00:06:50,205.84353741 --> 00:07:00,885.84353741 Midway through that week, she was abruptly taken off the air after reposting a human Wrights watch article on Instagram that criticized a Israel's military action in Gaza. 120 00:07:01,305.84353741 --> 00:07:08,25.84353741 That single post triggered a coordinated email campaign from the pro-Israel lobby groups that demanded her removal. 121 00:07:09,525.84353741 --> 00:07:25,45.84353741 There were leaked emails from the A b, C leadership that was put through the trial, which included then Chair Ida Brose, and she buckled under pressure to these political groups that were lobbying to have lato removed from the A BC. 122 00:07:25,490.84353741 --> 00:07:34,195.84353741 Lato sued the A BC for unlawful termination, for expressing a political opinion that is protected under. 123 00:07:34,750.84353741 --> 00:07:37,780.84353741 Australian law and you have rights as an employee. 124 00:07:38,860.84353741 --> 00:07:39,975.84353741 Fast forward to today. 125 00:07:39,995.84353741 --> 00:07:40,415.84353741 Mm-hmm. 126 00:07:40,500.84353741 --> 00:07:41,890.84353741 The federal court ruled in no favor. 127 00:07:42,10.84353741 --> 00:07:48,980.84353741 They awarded $70,000 in damages, and that does not include the cost, the A B, C will now have to foot the legal bill on both sides. 128 00:07:49,460.84353741 --> 00:07:57,620.84353741 And I think it has its very serious questions about the independence, the internal culture, and how it handled this for the A, B, C. 129 00:07:58,310.84353741 --> 00:07:58,820.84353741 Yeah. 130 00:07:58,820.84353741 --> 00:08:00,445.84353741 And now that we're up to speed on it. 131 00:08:01,70.84353741 --> 00:08:07,700.84353741 I think what's pretty crazy about this is her Insta Post wasn't even an original post. 132 00:08:07,730.84353741 --> 00:08:12,530.84353741 It was a repost of a human's rights watch report. 133 00:08:13,190.84353741 --> 00:08:21,330.84353741 In retrospect looking, there was obviously pressure for the A, B, C to do something, it could have been much worse than that if that's how they're gonna act on something as simple as. 134 00:08:21,720.84353741 --> 00:08:22,800.84353741 Reposting. 135 00:08:23,190.84353741 --> 00:08:26,820.84353741 What does that say about journalism? I just, she didn't have any commentary. 136 00:08:26,870.84353741 --> 00:08:29,330.84353741 And the A, B, C themselves reposted it. 137 00:08:30,350.84353741 --> 00:08:31,670.84353741 What? Yes. 138 00:08:31,670.84353741 --> 00:08:34,910.84353741 So she just reposted something that the A, B, C reposted. 139 00:08:35,630.84353741 --> 00:08:36,110.84353741 Hang on. 140 00:08:36,110.84353741 --> 00:08:36,620.84353741 Yeah. 141 00:08:37,10.84353741 --> 00:08:39,590.84353741 So the A, B, C had that report on their website. 142 00:08:39,890.84353741 --> 00:08:51,170.84353741 She reposted it on her own personal Instagram, and that was what had pro-Israel lobbying groups doing a coordinated email campaign to the A BC demanding action. 143 00:08:51,440.84353741 --> 00:09:01,940.84353741 So really what it seems is that issue was that she personally aligned herself to what was in that article or what was in that post, essentially. 144 00:09:02,210.84353741 --> 00:09:07,940.84353741 But she wasn't acting as a representative of the A, b, C in doing so, and she's entitled to have these. 145 00:09:08,665.84353741 --> 00:09:11,635.84353741 Concerns and also to state her opinion. 146 00:09:11,665.84353741 --> 00:09:15,495.84353741 And the other thing is that it wasn't inflammatory, it wasn't misinformation. 147 00:09:15,735.84353741 --> 00:09:19,215.84353741 She was providing public news and information. 148 00:09:20,385.84353741 --> 00:09:30,55.84353741 The power of groups like this particular pro-Israel group, her posting this, as you say, is nothing to do with her role there on the A, B, C. 149 00:09:30,175.84353741 --> 00:09:32,485.84353741 And they got her job taken away from her. 150 00:09:32,665.84353741 --> 00:09:33,325.84353741 Exactly. 151 00:09:33,375.84353741 --> 00:09:35,625.84353741 The group, which was Lawyers for Israel. 152 00:09:36,485.84353741 --> 00:09:39,815.84353741 And they call themselves the Jewish creatives and academics. 153 00:09:39,815.84353741 --> 00:09:43,145.84353741 They flooded the A, b, C execs with emails demanding that she be removed. 154 00:09:43,385.84353741 --> 00:09:46,715.84353741 And one of the emails even threatened legal action if she stayed on the air. 155 00:09:46,970.84353741 --> 00:09:48,380.84353741 So it was real pressure. 156 00:09:48,800.84353741 --> 00:09:53,690.84353741 And the other thing I'll say is this is our national tax funder paid broadcaster. 157 00:09:53,940.84353742 --> 00:09:59,410.84353742 There should be representation of all angles within a, B, C. 158 00:09:59,650.84353742 --> 00:09:59,950.84353742 Yeah. 159 00:10:00,220.84353742 --> 00:10:05,320.84353742 So the pressure, it worked on Ida TROs and she was the a, b, C chair at the time and. 160 00:10:06,970.84353742 --> 00:10:10,900.84353742 One of the things that Ida Tro said in an email, it really stuck with me. 161 00:10:10,900.84353742 --> 00:10:17,50.84353742 She said, can't you just come down with a flu or, or COVID or an upset stomach? We owe her nothing, and that's not true. 162 00:10:17,380.84353742 --> 00:10:18,550.84353742 She's your employee. 163 00:10:18,850.84353742 --> 00:10:20,290.84353742 You are supposed to look after her. 164 00:10:20,440.84353742 --> 00:10:25,630.84353742 She has rights and she has protections, and what they effectively did is said, that doesn't matter. 165 00:10:25,780.84353742 --> 00:10:27,730.84353742 We cave to. 166 00:10:28,780.84353742 --> 00:10:35,680.84353742 I would say pressure from a small minority group, and that is enough for them to influence or censor other people in the news. 167 00:10:35,710.84353742 --> 00:10:40,480.84353742 It's such a chilling insight into how reactive the leadership team was at that point in time. 168 00:10:40,990.84353742 --> 00:10:44,320.84353742 They should really value that editorial independence. 169 00:10:44,680.84353742 --> 00:10:50,640.84353742 And I think, there's a principle that we need to look at Her political view, is a grounded one. 170 00:10:50,670.84353742 --> 00:10:52,260.84353741 She's got great experience. 171 00:10:52,800.84353742 --> 00:10:58,740.84353742 It, as the employee of someone playing in that space, there should be a support. 172 00:10:58,790.84353742 --> 00:11:09,455.84353742 What does that say to the other journalists working with them? Has their behavior, have they consequently changed their behavior and reaction to this? I can't even see where the line is this, I don't even think there was a line that was being crossed. 173 00:11:09,455.84353742 --> 00:11:15,65.84353742 This whole thing, in my opinion, was incredibly inappropriate for the A, B, C to act on. 174 00:11:15,395.84353742 --> 00:11:18,245.84353742 They should have said, thank you for your concerns. 175 00:11:19,565.84353742 --> 00:11:26,315.84353742 Antoinette Latu is acting in her own personal capacity and we support her, and they didn't do that. 176 00:11:26,345.84353742 --> 00:11:28,655.84353742 Instead, they caved out of fear. 177 00:11:29,225.84353742 --> 00:11:31,235.84353742 And I don't think that was good enough. 178 00:11:32,345.84353742 --> 00:11:57,245.84353742 Ida Buttress at the time, I mean if, take us back to 2023, was it a point in time where all eyes were on her or, I'm just thinking like what's other context here as to why they would just shut it down and not ride with it at the time? That was at the very start of the crisis in Gaza and I would say Antoinette Latroe, and there's a few other. 179 00:11:57,560.84353742 --> 00:12:01,940.84353742 Media personalities, they were the very first people to speak out against what's occurring. 180 00:12:01,940.84353742 --> 00:12:03,740.84353742 And we've come a long way. 181 00:12:03,740.84353742 --> 00:12:08,480.84353742 I have no problem in saying what's happening in Gaza is genocide. 182 00:12:08,600.84353742 --> 00:12:13,650.84353742 They are starving people in the Gaza strip by denying them aid they desperately need. 183 00:12:14,40.84353742 --> 00:12:21,120.84353742 They are very strong when I say they Israel military that are pursuing these actions. 184 00:12:22,5.84353742 --> 00:12:24,525.84353742 It's gone past their right to defend themselves. 185 00:12:24,955.84353742 --> 00:12:30,115.84353742 Had that post been made in 2025, we wouldn't have been batting an eyelid. 186 00:12:30,115.84353742 --> 00:12:35,335.84353742 But I think unfortunately she was the first one and that's where we got ourselves in this position. 187 00:12:35,665.84353742 --> 00:12:36,805.84353742 I agree with you on that. 188 00:12:36,875.84353742 --> 00:12:47,75.84353742 What you've just said, it's such a common view and it would honestly, it would just be another in the saturated posts at the moment, which is raising awareness of, yeah. 189 00:12:47,375.84353742 --> 00:12:49,85.84353742 Everything that's going on over there. 190 00:12:49,145.84353742 --> 00:12:49,445.84353742 Yeah. 191 00:12:49,655.84353742 --> 00:13:00,425.84353742 From a technical perspective, the judge did say that the A, B, C did unlawfully terminate her, partly because of her political opinion, but they also said that she was never told not to post. 192 00:13:00,425.84353742 --> 00:13:00,455.84353742 Oh. 193 00:13:00,695.84353742 --> 00:13:02,555.84353742 It was just that it wouldn't be wise. 194 00:13:02,555.84353742 --> 00:13:03,665.84353742 That's not a directive. 195 00:13:05,795.84353742 --> 00:13:06,665.84353742 No it's not. 196 00:13:06,665.84353742 --> 00:13:08,255.84353742 And it, that's not legally binding. 197 00:13:08,465.84353742 --> 00:13:09,95.84353742 No, it's not. 198 00:13:09,95.84353742 --> 00:13:09,635.84353742 Exactly. 199 00:13:10,25.84353742 --> 00:13:11,585.84353742 And the cost in this is huge. 200 00:13:11,585.84353742 --> 00:13:15,125.84353742 She has been awarded $70,000 in damages, which is not much. 201 00:13:15,125.84353742 --> 00:13:21,795.84353742 But I don't think she was doing this to make a point, she did try to settle for only $85,000 and pay your own legal costs. 202 00:13:22,125.84353742 --> 00:13:27,765.84353742 And the A B, C actually rejected this and decided to instead spend a million dollars defending the case. 203 00:13:28,65.84353742 --> 00:13:30,375.84353742 And as a taxpayer, I'm not okay with that. 204 00:13:30,705.84353742 --> 00:13:32,205.84353742 No, I'm not okay with that either. 205 00:13:32,695.84353742 --> 00:13:33,445.84353742 So okay. 206 00:13:33,445.84353742 --> 00:13:36,445.84353742 They owe her $70,000 and that plus legal fees. 207 00:13:36,475.84353742 --> 00:13:36,895.84353742 Okay. 208 00:13:36,895.84353742 --> 00:13:39,25.84353742 So it's not including also, yeah. 209 00:13:39,25.84353742 --> 00:13:40,345.84353742 Any additional penalties. 210 00:13:41,155.84353742 --> 00:13:42,935.84353742 All the legal fees, as you say, okay. 211 00:13:42,995.84353742 --> 00:13:48,625.84353742 And have they officially responded? Just that they've accepted the ruling, but they haven't said if they'll appeal or not. 212 00:13:48,955.84353742 --> 00:13:52,495.84353742 I think it would be very unwise for them to appeal, but you never know. 213 00:13:53,5.84353742 --> 00:13:54,685.84353742 Yeah, they just need to leave it there. 214 00:13:54,835.84353742 --> 00:13:55,795.84353742 Yeah, exactly. 215 00:13:58,227.84353742 --> 00:14:05,67.84353742 It's been a big few days, gab with what's happening in the Middle East, and it was pretty bleak for a little bit there. 216 00:14:05,727.84353742 --> 00:14:20,427.84353742 It's been almost too shocking to believe at this point that we've gone through World War Three to Trump brokering a peace deal and then. 217 00:14:20,967.84353742 --> 00:14:21,897.84353742 Confusion. 218 00:14:22,167.84353742 --> 00:14:30,897.84353742 And then actually, yes, we did broker a quick peace deal Over the last two years, tension between Iran and Israel have exploded into something we haven't seen before. 219 00:14:31,167.84353742 --> 00:14:35,607.84353742 Actual military confrontation between the two countries, and not just through proxies. 220 00:14:35,757.84353742 --> 00:14:39,837.84353742 We're gonna break it down into something more digestible as to how we got to this point. 221 00:14:40,137.84353742 --> 00:14:40,857.84353742 Yeah, we will. 222 00:14:41,37.84353742 --> 00:14:47,577.84353742 So it started with the war in Gaza after hummus attacked Israel, and this is back in late 2023. 223 00:14:48,282.84353742 --> 00:14:49,662.84353742 Iran backed humus. 224 00:14:49,872.84353742 --> 00:14:51,492.84353742 Israel blamed Iran. 225 00:14:52,122.84353742 --> 00:14:53,712.84353742 Then it all escalated. 226 00:14:53,922.84353742 --> 00:14:57,342.84353742 There were missile strikes, assassinations and drone attacks. 227 00:14:57,402.84353742 --> 00:15:04,692.84353742 And by June this year, Israel actually launched a full scale airstrike on Iran's nuclear sites. 228 00:15:05,922.84353742 --> 00:15:07,122.84353742 Iran fired back. 229 00:15:07,122.84353742 --> 00:15:16,122.84353742 The US got involved, and somehow because this is the world we live in, Donald Trump back as president, announced a ceasefire via social media. 230 00:15:17,262.84353742 --> 00:15:27,642.84353742 So let's make it all make sense and break it down Quick history lesson Back in 1979, a ran through and through a massive revolution. 231 00:15:28,122.84353742 --> 00:15:39,252.84353742 They kicked out the Shah, who was effectively a puppet Mona, and brought in theocracy led by Aoah, kini and ga. 232 00:15:39,252.84353742 --> 00:15:41,142.84353742 You have seen pictures of women. 233 00:15:41,697.84353742 --> 00:15:44,427.84353742 Iran in like the 1960s? Yes, I have. 234 00:15:44,427.84353742 --> 00:15:46,377.84353742 And it's so different to pictures. 235 00:15:46,377.84353742 --> 00:15:50,787.84353742 Women now in Iran, Iranian women used to be the epitome of fashion. 236 00:15:50,817.84353742 --> 00:15:57,627.84353742 They were so stylish, they were moving ahead and you see what it is now country. 237 00:15:57,777.84353742 --> 00:16:06,837.84353742 It was incredibly progressive and it was progressive because it had oil well through its oil excavation activities and. 238 00:16:07,122.84353742 --> 00:16:10,512.84353742 British Patrol, um, was a large part in that wealth. 239 00:16:10,512.84353742 --> 00:16:27,642.84353742 They were benefiting so much from the activities that were occurring in Iran, and because of that, they wanted to have a proxy puppet, which was this shadow SHA royal family type who was in charge that they could heavily influence. 240 00:16:28,242.84353742 --> 00:16:29,682.84353742 And the people fought against that. 241 00:16:30,282.84353742 --> 00:16:33,852.84353742 And with that came that hard pivot away from the west. 242 00:16:34,497.84353742 --> 00:16:39,147.84353742 And a new obsession with destroying Israel, which they called the little Satan. 243 00:16:39,837.84353742 --> 00:16:48,477.8435374 Since then, Iran's funded groups like Hezbollah and Hamas, and basically anyone anti-Israel, it was someone that they wanted to support. 244 00:16:48,867.8435374 --> 00:16:53,97.8435374 Iran's Israel sees Iran at its number one threat to its existence. 245 00:16:54,147.8435374 --> 00:17:00,387.8435374 One thing we will talk about is proxies and what they mean, but before we get there. 246 00:17:01,167.8435374 --> 00:17:08,127.8435374 Why have we had so much peace leading up to this period? It's the rollercoaster around the US involvement. 247 00:17:08,127.8435374 --> 00:17:14,187.8435374 So take us back to 2020, 2015, Obama made a deal and that's that. 248 00:17:14,187.8435374 --> 00:17:20,487.8435374 We'll ease sanctions if you pause a nuclear program, and Iran agreed at the time and it really did work. 249 00:17:20,637.8435374 --> 00:17:22,917.8435374 Yeah, just to make this very clear. 250 00:17:24,72.8435374 --> 00:17:29,802.8435374 We have sanctioned against Iran in Australia, so we cannot buy Iranian wine. 251 00:17:30,132.8435374 --> 00:17:40,32.8435374 We cannot do foreign transaction deals with Iran if we do that is illegal, and banks have very strict requirements in place to make sure that these transactions are not occurring. 252 00:17:40,182.8435374 --> 00:17:41,832.8435374 We cannot do trade with Iran. 253 00:17:43,122.8435374 --> 00:17:52,2.8435374 The US said that we will pause or ease our sanctions slightly, I'll say ease, and it was largely in their minerals and their oil production. 254 00:17:52,767.8435374 --> 00:18:01,677.8435374 To allow Iran to approve its economic position because improving its economic position for its people means that we might see more sustainable. 255 00:18:01,857.8435374 --> 00:18:06,658.8435374 'cause if the people have more benefit, they don't want conflict, but then opportunity, yeah, opportunity. 256 00:18:06,663.8435374 --> 00:18:07,737.8435374 They do not want conflict. 257 00:18:08,127.8435374 --> 00:18:12,237.8435374 So it's really good for to allow Iran to prosper. 258 00:18:13,497.8435374 --> 00:18:23,997.8435374 It wasn't costing anyone anything as well, so we were effectively reducing sanctions and Iran had to agree to not build progress. 259 00:18:23,997.8435374 --> 00:18:24,957.8435374 Its nuclear program. 260 00:18:25,347.8435374 --> 00:18:30,177.8435374 They couldn't have Iranian enrichment above that 3.5%, 261 00:18:30,447.8435374 --> 00:18:38,127.8435374 and they also agreed to have the US and also neutral third parties monitor their nuclear activities to make sure they weren't doing the wrong thing. 262 00:18:38,682.8435374 --> 00:18:40,452.8435374 So all seems well. 263 00:18:40,482.8435374 --> 00:18:44,862.8435374 However, Trump came in, scrapped it and called it a terrible deal. 264 00:18:44,952.8435374 --> 00:18:51,732.8435374 So that all happened once Trump became president and hit Iran with sanctions again. 265 00:18:52,32.8435374 --> 00:19:00,312.8435374 So Iran said, fine, and then they rammed up their nuclear stuff back up, and Biden then tried to bring the deal back. 266 00:19:00,462.8435374 --> 00:19:03,762.8435374 But by 2023, Iran was. 267 00:19:04,122.8435374 --> 00:19:09,12.8435374 Enriching its uranium up to 60%, which is actually not too far off bomb level. 268 00:19:09,282.8435374 --> 00:19:11,802.8435374 And they had become quite hostile to the us. 269 00:19:11,802.8435374 --> 00:19:19,272.8435374 They were not open to negotiations and the economic prosperity that their people were experiencing had been really dwindled. 270 00:19:19,272.8435374 --> 00:19:21,192.8435374 So there was unrest as well with their people. 271 00:19:21,432.8435374 --> 00:19:21,732.8435374 Yeah. 272 00:19:21,792.8435374 --> 00:19:29,382.8435374 And in October 23, so same year, Hamas attacked Israel and over a thousand people were killed. 273 00:19:29,442.8435374 --> 00:19:32,352.8435374 Israel hit back at them hard in Gaza. 274 00:19:33,117.8435374 --> 00:19:39,897.8435374 And although Iran didn't really fire a shot in this, they were clearly backing the groups doing the attacking. 275 00:19:39,897.8435374 --> 00:19:50,637.8435374 So they were providing weapons, money, resources to Hamas for the conflict in Gaza, and it really drags it to a whole different region. 276 00:19:51,987.8435374 --> 00:19:56,427.8435374 By 2024, Israel started targeting Iranian proxies. 277 00:19:56,577.8435374 --> 00:19:58,227.8435374 And even killed Hezbollah's leader. 278 00:19:58,347.8435374 --> 00:20:00,147.8435374 And Iran was fuming at the time. 279 00:20:00,207.8435374 --> 00:20:00,597.8435374 Yeah. 280 00:20:00,927.8435374 --> 00:20:11,127.8435374 And what is proxies? So it's effectively you fighting a war through another country and you're doing this through money, through weapons, through resourcing, potentially even soldiers. 281 00:20:11,247.8435374 --> 00:20:17,367.8435374 But you are not fighting it yourself, but you are able to hit your, who you perceive as your enemies by going through another country. 282 00:20:17,667.8435374 --> 00:20:17,937.8435374 Yeah. 283 00:20:18,672.8435374 --> 00:20:26,352.8435374 By October 24, Iran did something they hadn't done before and that was directly launching missiles at Israel. 284 00:20:26,532.8435374 --> 00:20:27,882.8435374 And that was huge. 285 00:20:29,262.8435374 --> 00:20:35,532.8435374 Yeah, Biden did try to calm things down, but Trump would had just been awarded the presidency. 286 00:20:35,712.8435374 --> 00:20:42,42.8435374 He'd risk Trump was successful in his presidency campaign, and Trump overruled and said, Nope, no more warnings. 287 00:20:42,657.8435374 --> 00:20:44,427.8435374 So take us now to June. 288 00:20:44,667.8435374 --> 00:20:54,867.8435374 So this month right now, what has happened in the last week? So on the 13th of June, Israel launched a full surprise strike on Iran's nuclear facilities. 289 00:20:55,47.8435374 --> 00:20:57,267.8435374 Huge air raids, targeted assassinations. 290 00:20:57,537.8435374 --> 00:20:58,287.8435374 It was quite big. 291 00:20:58,887.8435374 --> 00:21:03,997.8435374 And Iran fired back, right, missiles at Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, and Haifa. 292 00:21:04,147.8435374 --> 00:21:06,607.8435374 That's where we brought the US into it. 293 00:21:06,967.8435374 --> 00:21:10,537.8435374 American Bombers joined Israel and hit more Iranian targets. 294 00:21:10,897.8435374 --> 00:21:14,557.8435374 And they have these deep debating bombs. 295 00:21:14,557.8435374 --> 00:21:20,77.8435374 So effectively it digs into the ground and it blew up where they believe the nuclear bunkers were. 296 00:21:20,407.8435374 --> 00:21:22,777.8435374 There has also been some unserious elements of this. 297 00:21:22,777.8435374 --> 00:21:23,557.8435374 Definitely. 298 00:21:24,577.8435374 --> 00:21:26,47.8435374 Oh yeah, there has. 299 00:21:26,47.8435374 --> 00:21:33,847.8435374 Whilst we've been on this sort of edge of our seats working out what is going on and what is about to erupt and has started to erupt. 300 00:21:34,912.8435374 --> 00:21:38,812.8435374 TikTok over here in Australia has seen the lighter sight. 301 00:21:38,932.8435374 --> 00:21:41,62.8435374 I would say everyone is so unserious. 302 00:21:41,332.8435374 --> 00:21:45,292.8435374 They are, but also I think part of it is like a denial. 303 00:21:45,372.8435374 --> 00:21:51,732.8435374 I've seen the trends of people working out what outfits they're gonna wear when they're summoned to join the army. 304 00:21:52,122.8435374 --> 00:21:54,912.8435374 We discussed how we were gonna get outta conscription in our group chat. 305 00:21:55,242.8435374 --> 00:21:57,522.8435374 Oh, we have Doesn't every group chat. 306 00:21:59,277.8435374 --> 00:22:06,357.8435374 There were 12 days of firepower before Trump got on social un true social and declared a cease fire. 307 00:22:06,387.8435374 --> 00:22:06,687.8435374 Yeah. 308 00:22:07,527.8435374 --> 00:22:19,917.8435374 Was it a formal deal? There's a lot of vibes, but one thing I will say is when Orion did fire back after being targeted by the us, they did hit a US base in Qatar. 309 00:22:20,127.8435374 --> 00:22:26,127.8435374 But one thing we will clarify is that Iran told the US when they would hit. 310 00:22:26,817.8435374 --> 00:22:31,137.8435374 They said how many bombs that they would be sending, how many missiles they'll be sending. 311 00:22:31,647.8435374 --> 00:22:33,147.8435374 And they also let Qatar know as well. 312 00:22:33,147.8435374 --> 00:22:40,727.8435374 So it was very much a posturing, orchestrated posturing to say we fired bat, but they did not want to do and further. 313 00:22:41,27.8435374 --> 00:22:41,417.8435374 Fascinating. 314 00:22:42,107.8435374 --> 00:22:45,587.8435374 I don't think they wanted to get more aggression from the us. 315 00:22:45,737.8435374 --> 00:22:46,517.8435374 Mm. 316 00:22:47,387.8435374 --> 00:22:53,477.8435374 And so is there a ceasefire at this point? It looks like we actually do have a ceasefire. 317 00:22:54,77.8435374 --> 00:22:55,847.8435374 That's a positive for now. 318 00:22:56,117.8435374 --> 00:23:04,907.8435374 Both sides agreed to stop if the others stopped, but I think this wasn't done in the most eloquently execution, so there was a lot of confusion. 319 00:23:04,937.8435374 --> 00:23:08,927.8435374 So Iran were like, yeah, we'll, ceasefire Israel ceasefire. 320 00:23:09,197.8435374 --> 00:23:15,857.8435374 Then Israel sent a missile over not realizing there was a ceasefire, and then Iran was like, well, ceasefire. 321 00:23:16,427.8435374 --> 00:23:19,97.8435374 And then they sent them back, and then Israel said that they're great. 322 00:23:19,367.8435374 --> 00:23:20,447.8435374 They're escalating. 323 00:23:21,32.8435374 --> 00:23:27,122.8435374 And I think at this point the US then went and was like, guys, ceasefire 12 hours. 324 00:23:27,482.8435374 --> 00:23:30,362.8435374 And it looks like they have both agreed at this point. 325 00:23:30,752.8435374 --> 00:23:36,692.8435374 So it's super vague, but seemingly they are agreed. 326 00:23:37,712.8435374 --> 00:23:40,832.8435374 I think this is just biting time. 327 00:23:42,812.8435374 --> 00:23:45,62.8435374 Iran didn't agree to pause. 328 00:23:45,62.8435374 --> 00:23:46,202.8435374 Its nuclear program. 329 00:23:46,952.8435374 --> 00:23:51,272.8435374 Israel hasn't agreed to not do any further attacks. 330 00:23:51,752.8435374 --> 00:23:57,2.8435374 So where we're currently at is, I think there's a long way to go. 331 00:23:58,202.8435374 --> 00:24:05,102.8435374 I would love if the US could try and get another version of its nuclear agreement. 332 00:24:05,402.8435374 --> 00:24:05,672.8435374 Oh yeah. 333 00:24:05,672.8435374 --> 00:24:06,362.8435374 Up in place. 334 00:24:06,692.8435374 --> 00:24:11,372.8435374 It's, it seems, if anything that is needed right now. 335 00:24:11,642.8435374 --> 00:24:12,32.8435374 Yeah. 336 00:24:12,602.8435374 --> 00:24:14,162.8435374 The other thing I'll say is. 337 00:24:15,77.8435374 --> 00:24:24,677.8435374 Whilst Israel said that the reason they attacked is 'cause they were concerned that Iran was very close to developing a nuclear weapon that hasn't been prudent. 338 00:24:24,677.8435374 --> 00:24:27,827.8435374 They said that they were weak away from a nuclear weapon. 339 00:24:28,157.8435374 --> 00:24:30,467.8435374 The US said, ah, they weren't that close. 340 00:24:30,467.8435374 --> 00:24:41,982.8435374 But yeah they definitely had made progress, but Netanyahu was under a lot of pressure to resign after the Herma attacks and his popularity tain. 341 00:24:42,867.8435374 --> 00:24:50,847.8435374 And I think there's questioning that he was doing this act to try and rebuild his popularity before going to election. 342 00:24:50,847.8435374 --> 00:24:52,137.8435374 After delaying elections. 343 00:24:52,167.8435374 --> 00:24:52,407.8435374 Yeah. 344 00:24:52,407.8435374 --> 00:24:56,517.8435374 Because really conveniently war with Iran has broken. 345 00:24:56,967.8435374 --> 00:24:57,357.8435374 Yeah. 346 00:24:57,357.8435374 --> 00:25:02,847.8435374 And he's gonna say, this is a military win and he's probably gonna call a snap election to ride that popularity wave. 347 00:25:03,567.8435374 --> 00:25:09,417.8435374 So did he delay democracy? Could we call it bad? Not technically, but maybe politically. 348 00:25:11,219.3333333 --> 00:25:19,19.3333333 Something a little lighter, Claire, but also very serious is a topic that I honestly can really relate to at the moment. 349 00:25:19,19.3333333 --> 00:25:23,309.3333333 And I've noticed that it's really blown up on TikTok in the last week or two. 350 00:25:23,459.3333333 --> 00:25:29,399.3333333 And that is this notion of when connection starts to feel like demand. 351 00:25:29,489.3333333 --> 00:25:30,959.3333333 And what I mean by that is. 352 00:25:32,159.3333333 --> 00:25:34,679.3333333 When you find yourself, and I'm sure there's people listening, going, oh. 353 00:25:35,144.3333333 --> 00:25:54,794.3333333 This is me, or this has been me, but when people are contacting you in your life and that they are, and you love these people in your life, but for some reason or another it feels too stressful to deal with and you leave them on red and your response rate is slow. 354 00:25:55,274.3333333 --> 00:25:59,564.3333333 And it just feels and I hate to say it, as much as you love the people in your life. 355 00:25:59,829.3333333 --> 00:26:05,139.3333333 That feels like another full-time job is keeping these conversations going with people. 356 00:26:05,639.3333333 --> 00:26:19,709.3333333 And so what I wanted to talk about is, yeah, this notion of, from a psychology perspective it's the fact that instead of seeing it as connection, it is a demand and why is that happening? And I'm sure it's quite common. 357 00:26:19,709.3333333 --> 00:26:22,489.3333333 Is this something you can relate to? Yeah, absolutely. 358 00:26:22,489.3333333 --> 00:26:29,449.3333333 I'm so guilty of sometimes just forgetting to respond or I read the message and then I don't respond, and then it's been too long. 359 00:26:29,449.3333333 --> 00:26:40,129.3333333 I can't, but then I also sometimes have a mental load where I just, I can't, I know that talking to this person means I'm gonna be on the phone for 30 minutes and I just can't do it. 360 00:26:40,399.3333333 --> 00:26:41,419.3333333 No, I'm the same. 361 00:26:41,419.3333333 --> 00:26:44,89.3333333 I have most of my notifications turned off. 362 00:26:44,439.3333333 --> 00:26:45,189.3333333 Permanently. 363 00:26:45,249.3333333 --> 00:26:48,439.3333333 You do actually because it was becoming so overwhelming. 364 00:26:48,499.3333333 --> 00:26:54,319.3333333 I am going into my apps when I am ready to, and at least when I'm doing that, I feel more present. 365 00:26:54,859.3333333 --> 00:27:00,124.3333333 And why are we like this? And the first thing to touch on really is that. 366 00:27:01,189.3333333 --> 00:27:10,609.3333333 We're in this day and age of technology where it's so easy to have access to people, but we are not meant to be accessible 24 7. 367 00:27:10,919.3333333 --> 00:27:15,359.3333333 Human brains were never designed for this constant stimulation and response. 368 00:27:15,839.3333333 --> 00:27:24,739.3333333 So the adult average at the moment is fielding about a 10 a hundred plus notifications per day. 369 00:27:25,129.3333333 --> 00:27:28,459.3333333 Honestly, I think it's more, especially with our group chats, but. 370 00:27:29,164.3333333 --> 00:27:35,584.3333333 That nature of this urgency culture that's been created is, if I don't reply straight away that I'm rude. 371 00:27:35,584.3333333 --> 00:27:43,924.3333333 It's almost like you have, you feel like you have to but actually always being available to people is starting to cause burnout. 372 00:27:44,254.3333333 --> 00:27:44,974.3333333 Yes. 373 00:27:45,274.3333333 --> 00:27:49,144.3333333 And it's funny that this is coming to the social 'cause, having boundaries at work. 374 00:27:49,144.3333333 --> 00:27:51,514.3333333 So I turn notifications on my emails off. 375 00:27:51,514.3333333 --> 00:27:54,94.3333333 I might check them throughout the night, but I'm certainly not. 376 00:27:54,859.3333333 --> 00:27:55,759.3333333 Having them on my phone. 377 00:27:55,789.3333333 --> 00:28:01,129.3333333 'cause I feel like I need to set those boundaries so that I can relax at night and come back to work the next day. 378 00:28:01,129.3333333 --> 00:28:03,109.3333333 And nothing is that urgent. 379 00:28:03,589.3333333 --> 00:28:03,769.3333333 No. 380 00:28:04,69.3333333 --> 00:28:05,479.3333333 I can't wait till the next day. 381 00:28:05,539.3333333 --> 00:28:06,349.3333333 We're not surgeons. 382 00:28:06,379.3333333 --> 00:28:07,369.3333333 No, exactly. 383 00:28:07,399.3333333 --> 00:28:20,509.3333333 But where I'm going with this is that I think now this phenomenon's expanded to our personal life to say we need to relax our brains and stop having that constant stressor of the notifications. 384 00:28:20,569.3333333 --> 00:28:20,959.3333333 Yeah. 385 00:28:21,179.3333333 --> 00:28:21,269.3333333 And. 386 00:28:21,974.3333333 --> 00:28:24,884.3333333 I think it's important that we do a bit of a psychology 1 0 1. 387 00:28:24,914.3333333 --> 00:28:39,554.3333333 I'm not a psychologist, but this is publicly available information, and basically why we shut down is in this reaction of shutting down is often tied to emotional overload like you've just mentioned. 388 00:28:39,644.3333333 --> 00:28:39,794.3333333 Mm. 389 00:28:39,824.3333333 --> 00:28:46,814.3333333 Or this low social battery where your brain perceives connection as another item on your to-do list. 390 00:28:47,89.3333333 --> 00:28:50,269.3333333 It can also stem from anxiety or decision fatigue. 391 00:28:50,299.3333333 --> 00:29:03,659.3333333 So if you've got a high pressure job during the day having to that pressure to say the right thing or be the right friend at that point in time and you wanting to match that person's energy or having to always be on. 392 00:29:04,729.3333333 --> 00:29:14,389.3333333 So while you might still love and value the person who's contacting you, it's really the timing, the capacity that's just not aligning with you. 393 00:29:14,389.3333333 --> 00:29:18,29.3333333 So you are not a bad friend if you are doing this as well. 394 00:29:18,89.3333333 --> 00:29:20,159.3333333 We, I, there are a lot of people doing this. 395 00:29:20,339.3333333 --> 00:29:20,849.3333333 Yeah. 396 00:29:20,899.3333333 --> 00:29:23,239.3333333 Perhaps it is time to look at your boundaries. 397 00:29:23,629.3333333 --> 00:29:30,169.3333333 I do think though respect plays a part, like I'm a big believer that if someone wants to, they will. 398 00:29:30,559.3333333 --> 00:29:31,189.3333333 And I. 399 00:29:31,489.3333333 --> 00:29:45,79.3333333 If you don't speak to someone in a day, or if you care deeply about someone and you can't find a minute just to send a quick message, I would say, maybe you need to recheck those boundaries and make sure you're not disrespecting people. 400 00:29:45,529.3333333 --> 00:29:47,119.3333333 That's a very good point, Claire. 401 00:29:47,549.3333333 --> 00:29:55,679.3333333 Because whilst people are busy, in the end it comes down to prioritization does, and if it's not high on the priority list. 402 00:29:56,269.3333333 --> 00:30:03,389.3333333 Especially someone if you, because it does suck to be on that other end of it, right? If you've sent a message and someone's not getting back to you for days. 403 00:30:03,749.3333333 --> 00:30:07,349.3333333 Now I'm saying this as I'm usually the culprit that doesn't reply. 404 00:30:07,649.3333333 --> 00:30:13,889.3333333 So I hear what you're saying and I do believe in the whole if they want to, they will. 405 00:30:14,309.3333333 --> 00:30:22,169.3333333 But as someone who's pretty crap at replying sometimes, honestly, the overwhelm does take over. 406 00:30:22,199.3333333 --> 00:30:27,619.3333333 So I am not saying it applies to everyone, but I think, each case, take each case as it is. 407 00:30:27,624.3333333 --> 00:30:27,694.3333333 Depends. 408 00:30:27,699.3333333 --> 00:30:28,339.3333333 Depends who it is. 409 00:30:28,339.3333333 --> 00:30:29,299.3333333 This person as well. 410 00:30:29,539.3333333 --> 00:30:30,409.3333333 Absolutely. 411 00:30:30,469.3333333 --> 00:30:32,239.3333333 And this is a thing and people play games. 412 00:30:32,239.3333333 --> 00:30:35,599.3333333 I think you've got a longstanding relationship with someone. 413 00:30:35,939.3333333 --> 00:30:41,19.3333333 If it's a good friend, an old friend and if you know that they're going through something. 414 00:30:41,264.3333333 --> 00:30:50,774.3333333 That's very different to someone forming a relationship at the start of a relationship for the first time because it's at that point in time where you should really be prioritizing that foundation. 415 00:30:50,859.3333333 --> 00:30:51,429.3333333 Interesting. 416 00:30:52,89.3333333 --> 00:30:53,109.3333333 Very interesting. 417 00:30:53,499.3333333 --> 00:31:07,234.3333333 So how can we reframe it? Ask yourself would, what would connection feel like if it wasn't exhausted? And maybe let go of that idea that you are a bad friend if you just need time to recharge. 418 00:31:07,504.3333333 --> 00:31:12,94.3333333 So we've touched on this already, but definitely think about setting those boundaries. 419 00:31:12,94.3333333 --> 00:31:15,899.3333333 So perhaps disabled red receipts. 420 00:31:15,899.3333333 --> 00:31:16,919.3333333 I know there's that sort. 421 00:31:16,979.3333333 --> 00:31:22,409.3333333 I feel that guilt sometimes if someone's read my message and I haven't gone back to them yet, but you have red receipts still on. 422 00:31:23,324.3333333 --> 00:31:27,599.3333333 I must, because I can see some people's, does that mean mine's on? Oh God, that's my fault. 423 00:31:27,604.3333333 --> 00:31:29,534.3333333 Can you check that for me? Oh, I can check that. 424 00:31:29,534.3333333 --> 00:31:30,554.3333333 That's my nightmare. 425 00:31:30,584.3333333 --> 00:31:31,334.3333333 Oh my God. 426 00:31:31,334.3333333 --> 00:31:36,4.3333333 I, oh and then, yeah, look at your do not disturb settings on your phone. 427 00:31:36,4.3333333 --> 00:31:39,994.3333333 So in saying that, don't I don't wanna promote that. 428 00:31:39,994.3333333 --> 00:31:42,154.3333333 It's okay to leave people unread. 429 00:31:42,184.3333333 --> 00:31:43,234.3333333 It's not okay. 430 00:31:43,534.3333333 --> 00:31:47,974.3333333 But I think once you do set boundaries and you are consistent in your new way. 431 00:31:48,294.3333333 --> 00:31:51,654.3333333 That is something that the people around you will get used to as well. 432 00:31:51,814.3333333 --> 00:31:55,764.3333333 It's also important to just be open about it and go, Hey I'm feeling like chaos this week. 433 00:31:56,34.3333333 --> 00:31:58,494.3333333 I'm literally rotting on the couch every night. 434 00:31:58,944.3333333 --> 00:31:59,994.3333333 I promise I'll get back to you. 435 00:31:59,994.3333333 --> 00:32:01,464.3333333 I love you and I'll get back to you soon. 436 00:32:01,469.3333333 --> 00:32:01,889.3333333 Yeah, I get that. 437 00:32:02,989.3333333 --> 00:32:05,299.3333333 A quick legal note before we dive in. 438 00:32:05,509.3333333 --> 00:32:08,209.3333333 Erin Patterson's trial is still underway in Victoria. 439 00:32:08,359.3333333 --> 00:32:11,899.3333333 She has pleaded not guilty and remains presumed innocent. 440 00:32:12,109.3333333 --> 00:32:15,559.3333333 We're only summarizing evidence heard in open court and reputable news. 441 00:32:15,739.3333333 --> 00:32:21,529.3333333 This is commentary, not news, facts or verdict, calling if you're a juror, witness or otherwise involved in the case. 442 00:32:21,589.3333333 --> 00:32:24,529.3333333 Please stop listening now and return after the trial ends. 443 00:32:26,283.324263 --> 00:32:34,203.324263 After the last sip of coffee on a Saturday afternoon, three people dead. 444 00:32:34,803.324263 --> 00:32:39,33.324263 One more clinging to life from the fatal mushrooms. 445 00:32:39,513.324263 --> 00:32:47,68.324263 At the beef Wellington Mu, we bring you the death diaries. 446 00:32:51,323.324263 --> 00:32:54,293.324263 Okay, gab, we are in the final stretch. 447 00:32:55,73.324263 --> 00:33:00,983.324263 You know the speculation, the Reddit threads and some very chaotic media in coverage. 448 00:33:00,983.324263 --> 00:33:04,583.324263 But this week is in its final phase. 449 00:33:04,823.324263 --> 00:33:11,753.324263 The jury is about to be sent out and Judge Bial is spending his days walking them through what they need to consider. 450 00:33:11,933.324263 --> 00:33:18,413.324263 It's effectively like a exam preparation for. 451 00:33:20,48.324263 --> 00:33:20,708.324263 Deliberations. 452 00:33:20,738.324263 --> 00:33:21,278.324263 Yeah, you're right. 453 00:33:21,278.324263 --> 00:33:24,158.324263 It's that final tutorial, pre-exam. 454 00:33:24,218.324263 --> 00:33:28,598.324263 Here's the, here's like the spark notes, let's go. 455 00:33:29,558.324263 --> 00:33:35,768.324263 And he's basically served the jury an 86 page mushroom flavored buffet of legal analysis. 456 00:33:35,768.324263 --> 00:33:39,548.324263 It's a shame that can't use chat GPT to summarize that for them. 457 00:33:39,638.324263 --> 00:33:45,278.324263 And they're really strict because the jury aren't allowed to have a written version of this. 458 00:33:45,488.324263 --> 00:33:48,368.324263 They're only allowed to hear it, so they've gotta take notes. 459 00:33:49,73.324263 --> 00:33:50,3.324263 Because it's the judge. 460 00:33:50,3.324263 --> 00:33:50,63.324263 Oh. 461 00:33:50,243.324263 --> 00:33:56,63.324263 Because we can't have them only purely relying on this, but this helps frame up everything they've heard. 462 00:33:56,63.324263 --> 00:34:08,428.324263 So the judges, I wanna say the judge, probably judges associates, have spent the time summarizing six weeks of all the different evidence he goes through who said what, where there's conflicts, how to understand things. 463 00:34:09,128.324263 --> 00:34:12,203.324263 And then the jury will be sent out to start jury camp. 464 00:34:12,848.324263 --> 00:34:13,838.324263 That's so interesting. 465 00:34:13,868.324263 --> 00:34:15,128.324263 So they're not allowed to take notes. 466 00:34:15,128.324263 --> 00:34:18,518.324263 You're saying during they're allowed to take notes, but they don't get a copy of it. 467 00:34:18,518.324263 --> 00:34:19,868.324263 They don't get a copy of this summary. 468 00:34:20,18.324263 --> 00:34:26,148.324263 It's so fascinating that's the rules because people are gonna remember what they want to remember. 469 00:34:26,448.324263 --> 00:34:29,658.324263 You are gonna have a real, a biased. 470 00:34:30,243.324263 --> 00:34:34,713.324263 Recollection of the key facts and what's important and what's not. 471 00:34:34,803.324263 --> 00:34:35,253.324263 Yeah. 472 00:34:35,643.324263 --> 00:34:44,343.324263 And this is that moment where if you talk to someone who's following this case, you're like, what's happening? And we will be recording what we think is gonna happen. 473 00:34:44,733.324263 --> 00:34:53,13.324263 And when we do our death cap diaries final course, which is once the verdict has been reached, gab and I will be having a mushroom meal. 474 00:34:53,523.324263 --> 00:34:54,633.324263 And a bottle of red wine. 475 00:34:54,693.324263 --> 00:34:55,23.324263 Yes. 476 00:34:55,23.324263 --> 00:34:58,593.324263 We're ha we're eating beef wellington and we're gonna have red wine. 477 00:34:58,593.324263 --> 00:35:00,123.324263 No, we're having wild mushroom risotto. 478 00:35:00,783.324263 --> 00:35:01,233.324263 Oh yeah. 479 00:35:01,263.324263 --> 00:35:02,163.324263 Oh, that's even better. 480 00:35:02,313.324263 --> 00:35:02,643.324263 Yeah. 481 00:35:02,648.324263 --> 00:35:02,708.324263 Yeah. 482 00:35:02,913.324263 --> 00:35:07,653.324263 In Tasmania I got Oh, you bought them? No, I didn't buy them. 483 00:35:07,653.324263 --> 00:35:10,443.324263 I bought dried mushroom. 484 00:35:10,743.324263 --> 00:35:10,923.324263 Oh. 485 00:35:10,923.324263 --> 00:35:15,258.324263 Here we, we go now we're gonna dry them and grate them and put them in my food. 486 00:35:15,258.324263 --> 00:35:15,648.324263 I see. 487 00:35:17,898.324263 --> 00:35:19,818.324263 And some Tasmanian red wine. 488 00:35:20,28.324263 --> 00:35:20,898.324263 Oh, I can't wait. 489 00:35:20,898.324263 --> 00:35:22,158.324263 That's gonna be fabulous. 490 00:35:23,673.324263 --> 00:35:27,688.324263 So everyone know, everyone's been saying like what they think's happened and Yes. 491 00:35:27,928.324263 --> 00:35:32,248.324263 The judge literally said, this is a court of law, not a court of morals. 492 00:35:32,278.324263 --> 00:35:38,308.324263 And it felt like it was targeted at us and the rest of the country that's already decided what they think's happened. 493 00:35:39,478.324263 --> 00:35:41,778.324263 Yeah, but good luck to the judge there. 494 00:35:41,808.324263 --> 00:35:43,938.324263 This has been such a high. 495 00:35:44,328.324263 --> 00:35:47,808.324263 Highly sought after case from the general public. 496 00:35:48,278.324263 --> 00:35:53,788.324263 So it is interesting for us on the sidelines here, seeing it play out, but to bring everyone up to speed. 497 00:35:53,788.324263 --> 00:35:58,228.324263 Claire, what have been the key updates for the last week or so? Yeah. 498 00:35:59,578.324263 --> 00:36:11,548.324263 So the first thing is the judge said we need to be very clear that any lies that Erin Patterson might have said, they might have damaged her credibility, but the jury can't convict her just because she acted suspiciously or 'cause of her credibility. 499 00:36:11,938.324263 --> 00:36:13,858.324263 They've gotta decide why she lied. 500 00:36:13,858.324263 --> 00:36:27,433.324263 Was it panic or a coverup, or was it because of the reason why she's been charged? The judge broke down the eight key consistencies in Erin Patterson's version of events, and let's be real. 501 00:36:27,433.324263 --> 00:36:29,83.324263 This is starting to get quite messy. 502 00:36:30,373.324263 --> 00:36:33,493.324263 So the mushroom foraging lie is the big one. 503 00:36:33,823.324263 --> 00:36:39,643.324263 At first she told the doctors that she's never foraged, but later in court she said, I do. 504 00:36:39,643.324263 --> 00:36:41,83.324263 And I dehydrate them too. 505 00:36:41,803.324263 --> 00:36:42,313.324263 Big shift. 506 00:36:42,823.324263 --> 00:36:44,383.324263 Massive shift. 507 00:36:45,73.324263 --> 00:36:49,393.324263 So there's also that mystery of whether the kids were invited to the lunch or not. 508 00:36:49,443.324263 --> 00:36:57,33.324263 We've heard that it was an adult's only lunch, which came from the daughter, but other witnesses have said that she explicitly didn't want them there. 509 00:36:57,903.324263 --> 00:37:03,513.324263 That's important as it goes to intent of who was meant to be there and eating that meal. 510 00:37:03,723.324263 --> 00:37:03,963.324263 Yeah. 511 00:37:04,353.324263 --> 00:37:10,893.324263 Also, don't forget the leftovers, she said she fed them to the kids, but she scraped off the mushroom paste. 512 00:37:11,928.324263 --> 00:37:19,38.324263 On that, just quickly, the leftovers that were in the bin were the traces of death cap mushrooms in those leftovers? No. 513 00:37:19,548.324263 --> 00:37:20,88.324263 Interesting. 514 00:37:21,288.324263 --> 00:37:31,338.324263 So the ju the judge didn't say she was lying, but he did say that if a story might be true, even if it's unlikely, the jury has to find her not guilty. 515 00:37:31,698.324263 --> 00:37:32,238.324263 Correct. 516 00:37:32,538.324263 --> 00:37:35,248.324263 And the jury are doing this beyond reasonable doubt. 517 00:37:35,458.324263 --> 00:37:40,378.324263 So that means you can't think of another reason why it could have occurred and. 518 00:37:40,768.324263 --> 00:37:44,188.324263 It's not, more likely it's not, it's pretty certain. 519 00:37:44,188.324263 --> 00:38:03,988.324263 So it's a very high standard to find someone guilty of a crime and one of the most damning things is that tech stuff, right? So she factory reset her phone multiple times after the lunch and then handed the police the phone, a different phone, and then she gave them a different phone number. 520 00:38:04,108.324263 --> 00:38:04,558.324263 Yeah. 521 00:38:04,708.324263 --> 00:38:07,138.324263 She also remote reset her phone. 522 00:38:07,513.324263 --> 00:38:09,493.324263 And she said she did it just to see what would happen. 523 00:38:09,913.324263 --> 00:38:14,843.324263 But that also occurred, when you can go find your iPhone and then remote erase 'cause you've got the phone. 524 00:38:14,993.324263 --> 00:38:15,293.324263 Yeah. 525 00:38:15,323.324263 --> 00:38:15,953.324263 She did that. 526 00:38:16,193.324263 --> 00:38:17,273.324263 Oh, that's exactly what she did. 527 00:38:17,273.324263 --> 00:38:18,53.324263 Interesting. 528 00:38:19,433.324263 --> 00:38:26,993.324263 And that's not, the mom who forgot her log on energy, like my mom would do something like that. 529 00:38:27,503.324263 --> 00:38:30,23.324263 Like she probably doesn't even know her own phone number. 530 00:38:31,163.324263 --> 00:38:34,63.324263 It's not, it's not giving that I've watched too many true crime Jocko. 531 00:38:34,303.324263 --> 00:38:41,83.324263 No the judge did say that this could suggest guilt, but it could also be fear. 532 00:38:41,83.324263 --> 00:38:47,293.324263 So it's weighing up whether she's innocent and suddenly everyone's calling her a killer, and so she's panicking. 533 00:38:47,533.324263 --> 00:38:48,583.324263 That is possible. 534 00:38:49,33.324263 --> 00:38:56,703.324263 If you realize that you cooked a meal and three people are dead, one's in intensive care, I would be panicking. 535 00:38:57,108.324263 --> 00:38:58,488.324263 I'd be panicking completely. 536 00:38:58,488.324263 --> 00:38:59,568.324263 I'd be having a heart attack. 537 00:38:59,838.324263 --> 00:39:02,958.324263 Would you try? I'd be in hospital and I'd be on life support because I've had a heart attack. 538 00:39:03,18.324263 --> 00:39:05,418.324263 And I reckon I would do some pretty wacky things. 539 00:39:05,898.324263 --> 00:39:06,798.324263 Oh yeah. 540 00:39:07,8.324263 --> 00:39:08,28.324263 I would be disheveled. 541 00:39:08,118.324263 --> 00:39:09,438.324263 I wouldn't be in a right frame of mind. 542 00:39:09,468.324263 --> 00:39:11,538.324263 No, wouldn't be at Subway. 543 00:39:11,808.324263 --> 00:39:13,488.324263 But anyway, white pants. 544 00:39:13,493.324263 --> 00:39:14,448.324263 Anyway, digress. 545 00:39:14,968.324263 --> 00:39:19,468.324263 So the di the dehydrator, talk to me about this iconic moment of the case. 546 00:39:20,398.324263 --> 00:39:25,678.324263 The days after Erin dumped the dehydrator at the tip and paid via her credit card. 547 00:39:26,453.324263 --> 00:39:33,683.324263 And then also denied owning a dehydrator and said that she bought the mushrooms from Asian Grocers, England, Waverley. 548 00:39:34,343.324263 --> 00:39:34,943.324263 Yes. 549 00:39:35,43.324263 --> 00:39:40,343.324263 So a lot of change in the narrative over the course of the case. 550 00:39:40,373.324263 --> 00:39:46,613.324263 Again, you can't read too much into it because if you are panicking, you say stuff. 551 00:39:47,183.324263 --> 00:39:47,533.324263 Oh yeah. 552 00:39:47,533.324263 --> 00:39:48,853.324263 And it's such a fine line there. 553 00:39:49,123.324263 --> 00:39:49,363.324263 Yeah. 554 00:39:52,153.324263 --> 00:40:06,933.324263 Importantly the judge didn't just target Erin Paterson and his inconsistency, it also pointed out inconsistencies between the witnesses and also witnesses that shifted their story throughout their evidence, and also from their police interviews and to what was said on the stand. 555 00:40:07,773.324263 --> 00:40:14,823.324263 Her ex-husband, Simon, the surviving guest, Ian Wilson both gave different versions of the key details from what they both knew. 556 00:40:14,823.324263 --> 00:40:16,923.324263 Obviously Ian was there, Simon was not there. 557 00:40:17,513.324263 --> 00:40:30,113.324263 So particularly for Ian around how the mill was served and that's fascinating though, that recollection versus my lived reality and they're still inconsistencies and people can forget. 558 00:40:30,113.324263 --> 00:40:31,403.324263 It doesn't mean they're lying. 559 00:40:31,733.324263 --> 00:40:36,353.324263 But the jury still should factor that in and with Ian as well. 560 00:40:36,353.324263 --> 00:40:43,13.324263 He did say that even Gail on the Sunday morning had noted about the plates. 561 00:40:43,73.324263 --> 00:40:43,673.324263 Yes. 562 00:40:43,763.324263 --> 00:40:44,843.324263 That was very specific. 563 00:40:44,843.324263 --> 00:40:44,903.324263 Yeah. 564 00:40:44,903.324263 --> 00:40:54,653.324263 'cause she said, does Erin not have many plates? And her husband, it was something notable, but her husband, Simon also said, well, no, Erin, I don't remember her having many plates at all. 565 00:40:54,893.324263 --> 00:40:55,163.324263 Yeah. 566 00:40:56,558.324263 --> 00:41:07,208.324263 The prosecution made a list of everything she did that looked guilty, which included the faking of the illness, lying about the mushroom source, allegedly of course, not getting her kids tested and wiping her phone. 567 00:41:08,198.324263 --> 00:41:16,388.324263 And Judge Beal goes, you the jury, have to decide whether that behavior screams guilty or a scared woman in crisis. 568 00:41:17,78.324263 --> 00:41:20,228.324263 And honestly, both feel a bit possible. 569 00:41:20,238.324263 --> 00:41:22,698.324263 A lot of chaotic behavior. 570 00:41:22,868.324263 --> 00:41:27,518.324263 Yeah, what there isn't in this case is a really clear motive. 571 00:41:27,878.324263 --> 00:41:29,258.324263 She hasn't inherited money. 572 00:41:29,258.324263 --> 00:41:30,698.324263 There's no abuse claims. 573 00:41:31,28.324263 --> 00:41:41,288.324263 There's no obvious benefit from doing this, and I think that's where a lot of the contention comes, because if you had motive, this would feel so much more simple. 574 00:41:41,288.324263 --> 00:41:44,108.324263 But the no motive means that you have to really. 575 00:41:44,633.324263 --> 00:41:48,23.324263 Critically evaluate the evidence to see if that leads you in a direction. 576 00:41:48,323.324263 --> 00:41:53,933.324263 And that's, that really matters, not legally, but motive isn't required to convict. 577 00:41:53,993.324263 --> 00:42:01,493.324263 But from an emotional perspective, it's the sticking point the judge said to himself, the absence of motive might raise reasonable doubt. 578 00:42:01,643.324263 --> 00:42:08,433.324263 Now it, once judge Bill finishes his overview of the case, it's gonna be up to the jury, and I'm gonna start, jury can. 579 00:42:09,198.324263 --> 00:42:10,218.324263 We love Drew Camp. 580 00:42:10,248.324263 --> 00:42:11,538.324263 It'll be 12 people in a room. 581 00:42:11,538.324263 --> 00:42:14,748.324263 So they'll work out who's gonna be alternates and they will not be deliberating. 582 00:42:15,258.324263 --> 00:42:19,278.324263 And then those 12 people will be in a room with the facts to make a decision. 583 00:42:19,758.324263 --> 00:42:26,448.324263 As I say, I cannot wait for the documentary if they believe Erin Patterson's version of events she walks. 584 00:42:26,958.324263 --> 00:42:29,568.324263 If they believe the prosecution found guilty. 585 00:42:29,748.324263 --> 00:42:32,448.324263 If they can't make a decision, it could be a hung jury. 586 00:42:32,478.324263 --> 00:42:37,8.324263 And one thing that might be offered by the judge is that the ability to have a. 587 00:42:37,463.324263 --> 00:42:39,623.324263 Majority verdict, so it'll be 10 to two. 588 00:42:39,623.324263 --> 00:42:41,783.324263 So two people can do not guilty. 589 00:42:41,783.324263 --> 00:42:44,958.324263 And then if the rest agree, they can land a decision. 590 00:42:45,258.324263 --> 00:42:47,928.324263 Otherwise, if they can't make a decision, it could be a hung jury. 591 00:42:48,858.324263 --> 00:42:53,28.324263 I think what's fascinating here is that the judge didn't really push either way. 592 00:42:53,148.324263 --> 00:42:57,738.324263 He really just made sure that the jury understood how to weigh the evidence. 593 00:42:57,838.324263 --> 00:43:00,238.324263 But even when people lie or act weird. 594 00:43:00,778.324263 --> 00:43:03,628.324263 And you can't just convict someone for being messy. 595 00:43:03,628.324263 --> 00:43:05,38.324263 You can only convict if you're sure. 596 00:43:05,518.324263 --> 00:43:06,298.324263 Yeah, exactly. 597 00:43:07,760.324263 --> 00:43:09,740.324263 That's a wrap for this week's spin cycle. 598 00:43:09,920.324263 --> 00:43:12,290.324263 If you enjoy the episode, please rate and review us. 599 00:43:12,290.324263 --> 00:43:14,0.324263 It helps more people find our show. 600 00:43:14,270.324263 --> 00:43:18,500.324263 Don't forget to share it with your friends or anyone who needs a little media spin detox. 601 00:43:18,620.324263 --> 00:43:21,830.324263 We'll be back next week breaking down the headlines and what's hiding between them. 602 00:43:22,10.324263 --> 00:43:22,580.324263 See you then.