Skims Face Wrap Hype, First Guardian Collapse, Ghislaine Maxwell’s Prison Play & Victoria’s Work From Home Revolution

This week on SpinCycle, Claire and Gab dig into the systems shaping beauty, power, and financial survival in 2025:

Beauty and the Business: Skims’ Viral Jaw-Sculpting Face Wrap Kim Kardashian’s latest Skims launch has gone viral—but does the jaw-sculpting face wrap actually work, or is it just another “insecurity product”? We unpack the science, the social media backlash, and what the beauty industry’s relentless new standards really mean for women.

Australia’s Biggest Financial Crime: The First Guardian Collapse A $590 million super fund Ponzi scheme has left over 6,000 Australians—mostly nearing retirement—completely wiped out. Claire breaks down how the First Guardian scam was able to flourish for years, what went wrong with regulators and platforms, and the devastating human cost. If you have a self-managed super fund, you’ll want to hear this.

Ghislaine Maxwell’s “Club Fed” Prison Power Move Why is Ghislaine Maxwell now sharing the “cushiest” US federal prison with Elizabeth Holmes and Real Housewives stars? We break down her campaign for a Trump pardon, her strategy behind Epstein witness negotiations, and what her story says about privilege, power, and the US justice system.

Victoria’s Bold Work From Home Law: Radical Reform or Election Sugar Hit? The Victorian government wants to make two days of working from home a protected human right. Gab and Claire debate the pros and cons—will this be a revolution for working parents and carers, or will it backfire for employers, career progression, and workplace culture? Plus, why every debate about remote work is really about power and control.

Plus:

• Palestine protests across the Sydney Harbour Bridge

• A cat cameo

• What we all owe each other in kindness—beyond performative “good deeds” on TikTok

If you’re here for pop culture, business, and the deeper story behind the headlines, you’re in the right place. Subscribe, rate, and share SpinCycle—new episodes every week.

Keywords: SpinCycle, Australian podcast, Skims face wrap, Kim Kardashian, beauty standards, First Guardian collapse, superannuation scam, Ponzi scheme, Ghislaine Maxwell, Trump pardon, work from home laws, Victoria Australia, remote work, Palestine protest, Claire Anglim, Gabriella Bonanno, women in business, pop culture analysis, financial crime, workplace reform

Episode Transcript

(01:36):
.42857143It's about the reward they will get and not the reward of seeing someone else fulfilled. 23 00:01:40,780.95238095 --> 00:01:41,980.95238095 It's that selfish reward. 24 00:01:41,980.95238095 --> 00:01:42,9.52380952 Oh. 25 00:01:42,390.47619048 --> 00:01:45,419.04761905 Yeah, no, this guy definitely was just doing it genuinely. 26 00:01:46,57.14285714 --> 00:01:50,371.42857143 And as you say,, it's like a lot of people contribute in ways where they still. 27 00:01:51,333.33333333 --> 00:01:52,961.9047619 You know, it's almost like a safe distance away. 28 00:01:52,961.9047619 --> 00:01:55,304.76190476 Then it's like, removes the interaction. 29 00:01:55,352.38095238 --> 00:01:56,323.80952381 So yeah, it was really sweet. 30 00:01:56,523.80952381 --> 00:01:57,123.80952381 I love that. 31 00:01:57,123.80952381 --> 00:02:00,809.52380952 Maybe we should all go do something, a good turn for someone else this in the next day. 32 00:02:00,923.80952381 --> 00:02:01,380.95238095 Yes. 33 00:02:01,380.95238095 --> 00:02:03,523.80952381 This has inspired me, so I hope it inspires you all. 34 00:02:03,666.66666667 --> 00:02:03,752.38095238 Mm-hmm. 35 00:02:06,235.80952381 --> 00:02:13,150.0952381 Coming up this week on spin cycle, we are breaking down skims, viral jaw, sculpting, face wrap, and what it says about beauty standards. 36 00:02:13,292.95238095 --> 00:02:17,692.95238095 Then diving into Australia's biggest financial crime with the first guardian collapse. 37 00:02:18,207.23809524 --> 00:02:29,521.52380952 Trump's new tariff war and why Ghislaine Maxwell is angling for a pardon from prison as well as the Victorian government is making its work from home as human right beauty, power, and financial survival. 38 00:02:29,550.0952381 --> 00:02:30,750.0952381 It's all on the table today. 39 00:02:46,6.49659928 --> 00:02:51,976.49659928 Welcome to Spin Cycle, where we dig into the stories shaping the world and take a closer look at the patterns, power plays. 40 00:02:51,976.49659928 --> 00:02:59,686.49659928 And yes, the biases hiding in plain sight where Gab and Claire, two friends with MBAs, A lot of opinions and a healthy amount of skepticism. 41 00:02:59,986.49659928 --> 00:03:02,986.49659928 We're here to help you think twice and maybe have a few laughs. 42 00:03:03,286.49659928 --> 00:03:04,61.49659928 Let's get spinning. 43 00:03:05,341.62585098 --> 00:03:07,836.86394621 Claire, what's top of mind for you this week? Okay. 44 00:03:08,179.72108907 --> 00:03:14,894.00680336 I have been absolutely loving seeing all the coverage from the Palestine march across the Sydney Harbor Bridge. 45 00:03:15,36.86394621 --> 00:03:16,65.43537479 Oh, yes. 46 00:03:16,94.00680336 --> 00:03:17,665.43537479 One of the thing I love the most in the application. 47 00:03:18,351.1496605 --> 00:03:24,570.19727955 Uh, this went through the courts and the police and the state premier for New South Wales sought an injunction to stop the protest going ahead. 48 00:03:25,113.0544224 --> 00:03:26,513.0544224 And the Supreme Court said, no. 49 00:03:27,55.91156526 --> 00:03:31,484.48299383 The safety concerns you are raising doesn't outright people's right to protest because it is one of our human Yeah. 50 00:03:31,484.48299383 --> 00:03:31,941.62585098 Our rights. 51 00:03:31,970.19727955 --> 00:03:32,655.91156526 Yeah, absolutely. 52 00:03:32,713.0544224 --> 00:03:34,827.34013669 As an Australian citizen to voice our concerns. 53 00:03:35,455.91156526 --> 00:03:38,141.62585098 And they put in an application for 10,000 people. 54 00:03:38,770.19727955 --> 00:03:41,713.0544224 The estimates are over a hundred thousand. 55 00:03:42,55.91156526 --> 00:03:44,198.76870812 People attended the rally on the weekend. 56 00:03:44,255.91156526 --> 00:03:47,313.0544224 Absolutely overwhelming presence there. 57 00:03:47,341.62585098 --> 00:03:54,617.81632717 The vision that I've seen, it's just incredible to see so many people united in such a significant place as well. 58 00:03:54,617.81632717 --> 00:04:00,160.67347002 And really, I mean, you can probably tell me more about what's come as a back of it, that sends a really strong message. 59 00:04:00,246.38775574 --> 00:04:03,817.81632717 There were other protests in Melbourne, not to the same extent. 60 00:04:03,846.38775574 --> 00:04:06,560.67347002 They wanted to walk across the King Street bridge that leads to Crown Oh, yeah. 61 00:04:06,560.67347002 --> 00:04:07,274.95918431 In Melbourne. 62 00:04:07,674.95918431 --> 00:04:10,74.95918431 And they weren't able to do that due to safety concerns. 63 00:04:10,560.67347002 --> 00:04:20,246.38775574 However, today Anthony Albanese said that he was looking to have a phone call with Israeli Prime Minister net, and I'm really glad to see that. 64 00:04:20,932.10204145 --> 00:04:29,760.67347002 I think we're starting to see progress, and that's us saying I'm not happy with the amount of genocide and death that's occurring to innocent people in Gaza. 65 00:04:30,403.53061288 --> 00:04:30,974.95918431 Exactly. 66 00:04:30,974.95918431 --> 00:04:41,270.19727955 I think with that though, it's a shame that the genocide and the death is not enough We are having to take that extra step, that next step of everyday people getting involved. 67 00:04:41,270.19727955 --> 00:04:47,879.72108907 And it's not until it becomes something that is relevant to people outside of there that really people are listening. 68 00:04:47,965.43537479 --> 00:04:48,222.57823193 Yeah. 69 00:04:48,222.57823193 --> 00:04:53,508.29251764 And Israel is the one that needs to solve this problem because they are land locking the people of Gaza. 70 00:04:53,565.43537479 --> 00:05:00,546.38775574 Yeah, so they're the ones that are stopping the aid going in I honestly think that they will start to cave towards what the people are saying. 71 00:05:00,574.95918431 --> 00:05:08,889.24489859 'cause they can't stand this amount of, I'm sorry, we've got a theory for this is what's top of mind for me this week. 72 00:05:08,917.81632717 --> 00:05:09,346.38775574 Okay. 73 00:05:10,174.95918431 --> 00:05:25,89.24489859 It's the fact that we are cat ladies tonight and I love that such a digs, I am currently cat sitting, one of our friend's cat, and this cat is very involved in what we're doing. 74 00:05:25,660.67347002 --> 00:05:27,174.95918431 He's so involved. 75 00:05:27,232.10204145 --> 00:05:30,717.81632717 I have my laptop out and he's decided to type on the computer. 76 00:05:30,717.81632717 --> 00:05:39,451.1496605 So apologies to the listeners if he decides to visit us throughout this recording, but he's very cute and too cute almost to tell off. 77 00:05:40,794.00680336 --> 00:05:42,165.43537479 I mean, I yell at him all day. 78 00:05:43,153.62585098 --> 00:05:56,782.19727955 Now we have to really start this episode by talking about the most unusual and crazy thing that's launched last week, which was the skims jaw sculpting face wrap, which. 79 00:05:57,125.0544224 --> 00:06:00,925.0544224 For me, if anyone has seen this, hasn't seen this. 80 00:06:02,382.19727955 --> 00:06:14,344.10204145 If I'm to describe this product that was launched by Kim Kardashian last week, it is being marketed as essentially something that will sculpt your face while you are sleeping. 81 00:06:14,944.10204145 --> 00:06:18,58.38775574 And if you were to look at it, it looks like a Hannibal mask. 82 00:06:18,829.81632717 --> 00:06:21,486.95918431 And I don't know, have you seen? Yeah, it, it's 88 of the lambs. 83 00:06:21,486.95918431 --> 00:06:26,286.95918431 They're selling it for $88, it's literally compression garments that people wear after they have a facelift. 84 00:06:26,772.67347002 --> 00:06:40,648.86394621 It is, uh, and I don't know if you saw, but Anthony Hopkins the famous actor who was Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs, has posted content with the skims because it looks so much like a Hannibal mask. 85 00:06:41,363.1496605 --> 00:06:45,848.86394621 What you doing? Would you get it in cream or would you get it in black? I would not get it. 86 00:06:45,848.86394621 --> 00:06:48,448.86394621 And do you know what? It doesn't matter because guess what, it's sold out. 87 00:06:48,953.62585098 --> 00:06:55,715.53061288 I'm looking right now and the machine's already, um, duped them so you can get one for so quick $5 30 and 10% off. 88 00:06:56,248.86394621 --> 00:07:05,48.86394621 The seamless sculpt face wrap was launched and claims that it lifts and defines the jaw, um, using this specific yarn of the fabric. 89 00:07:05,48.86394621 --> 00:07:09,106.00680336 So the published backlash has been swift naturally. 90 00:07:09,344.10204145 --> 00:07:14,144.10204145 They're calling it a medieval torture device and a new insecurity that you didn't know about. 91 00:07:14,944.10204145 --> 00:07:22,772.67347002 There's no real, evidence from a medical perspective that the jaw shaping actually works unless it's post-surgical. 92 00:07:23,315.53061288 --> 00:07:28,772.67347002 So it just goes to show that the goalposts for beauty standards. 93 00:07:29,329.81632717 --> 00:07:35,929.81632717 Continue to change and an insecurity that you didn't know you had is almost surfaced. 94 00:07:35,929.81632717 --> 00:07:46,786.95918431 And really, I, I'm, so we've got this, our cat friend, everyone listening is uh, attacking the computers right now. 95 00:07:48,129.81632717 --> 00:07:49,386.95918431 I've just chased him away. 96 00:07:49,501.24489859 --> 00:07:50,44.10204145 Oh yeah. 97 00:07:50,101.24489859 --> 00:07:51,586.95918431 But as I was saying. 98 00:07:53,286.95918431 --> 00:07:59,629.81632717 How the Kardashian brand continuously refines what is normal and what it's fixing is absolutely influencing people. 99 00:07:59,629.81632717 --> 00:08:04,382.19727955 I mean, the fact this launched last week and the product is already sold out it's really sad to me. 100 00:08:04,615.53061288 --> 00:08:04,891.72108907 Okay. 101 00:08:05,796.48299383 --> 00:08:06,367.91156526 Question. 102 00:08:06,482.19727955 --> 00:08:06,910.76870812 Mm-hmm. 103 00:08:06,996.48299383 --> 00:08:18,796.48299383 Do you think, given that people will wear those, you know, the, the blemish dots and people will go out to work, when I say people, it's the Gen Zs, like wear the dots or the stars over your pimples. 104 00:08:18,796.48299383 --> 00:08:18,799.34013669 Over your pimples. 105 00:08:18,967.91156526 --> 00:08:22,806.00680336 Do you think people are gonna go walking around out in these? Claire. 106 00:08:22,806.00680336 --> 00:08:25,834.57823193 I really hope they don't, but yeah, probably it's gonna get to that point. 107 00:08:26,34.57823193 --> 00:08:31,663.1496605 It's like, which I think we've both done this at some point, but, working from home. 108 00:08:32,86.95918431 --> 00:08:37,172.67347002 Being in your tan and just shamelessly being in those old clothes whilst you're marinating. 109 00:08:37,744.10204145 --> 00:08:39,315.53061288 I mean, maybe this is the next thing. 110 00:08:40,410.76870812 --> 00:08:51,296.48299383 Someone I know is about to get a facelift and she was nervous about wearing her compression garments in public, so now I can just let her know that it's normalized and it's actually the sign of being aesthetic. 111 00:08:51,648.86394621 --> 00:08:52,591.72108907 I really hope it doesn't. 112 00:08:52,791.72108907 --> 00:09:00,191.72108907 Because similar, similar to this last week, a big news story was all around the AI Myles in Vogue through the guest campaign. 113 00:09:00,191.72108907 --> 00:09:01,77.43537479 Did you see Claire? Mm-hmm. 114 00:09:01,363.1496605 --> 00:09:02,191.72108907 No, I saw that one. 115 00:09:02,429.81632717 --> 00:09:02,915.53061288 Which. 116 00:09:02,958.38775574 --> 00:09:12,306.00680336 F was essentially vogue Italia and guests releasing a cover and a feature spread using a hundred percent AI generated models wearing the latest collection. 117 00:09:12,706.00680336 --> 00:09:14,991.72108907 So the images were digitally rendered. 118 00:09:15,86.95918431 --> 00:09:19,29.81632717 No real bodies, no real lighting, no real women either. 119 00:09:19,401.24489859 --> 00:09:24,891.72108907 It's positioned as futuristic, mixed fashion, but it kind of erases what a real woman looks like. 120 00:09:25,615.53061288 --> 00:09:30,729.81632717 What's basically what they perceive to be a real woman, or the woman that fits their clothes most appropriately. 121 00:09:31,244.10204145 --> 00:09:43,910.76870812 It's just really putting that pressure on achieving a level of standard of a body that is not achievable and praise on making the vulnerabilities of women even more so, worse. 122 00:09:43,910.76870812 --> 00:09:47,510.76870812 So it just feels like you can now be sculpted. 123 00:09:47,510.76870812 --> 00:10:08,432.29251764 You could be stimulated, what's next? What else we can do? Gab, I've been in an absolute choke hold about this I knew about the collapse through reading the A FR and it was only Saturday night that I discovered the subreddit of victims and people of who are interested in this collapse of the investment fund. 124 00:10:09,89.43537479 --> 00:10:11,146.57823193 And it would've done the biggest rabbit hole of my life. 125 00:10:11,603.72108907 --> 00:10:15,489.43537479 One, it's absolutely obscene the scale of what's occurred. 126 00:10:16,403.72108907 --> 00:10:18,746.57823193 I'm so devastated for the people who've lost everything. 127 00:10:19,89.43537479 --> 00:10:21,956.10204145 They're, for many, the entire super has just vanished. 128 00:10:21,956.10204145 --> 00:10:26,870.38775574 And these are people that were close to retirement, but two, you can actually see how this happened. 129 00:10:27,156.10204145 --> 00:10:28,784.67347002 And that's the most chilling part. 130 00:10:28,984.67347002 --> 00:10:30,727.53061288 The manipulation is so layered. 131 00:10:30,956.10204145 --> 00:10:32,784.67347002 Calculated and brazen. 132 00:10:33,927.53061288 --> 00:10:36,927.53061288 And what you're talking about here is the first guardian collapse. 133 00:10:37,156.10204145 --> 00:10:43,813.24489859 So talk us through what this seems to be one of the biggest crimes financially in Australian history. 134 00:10:44,413.24489859 --> 00:10:48,927.53061288 So what, talk us through the fallout and essentially what has happened. 135 00:10:48,956.10204145 --> 00:10:54,327.53061288 What is the news here? 590 million tanked in the first guardian master. 136 00:10:55,41.81632717 --> 00:10:59,483.72099383 Over 6000 Australians mostly planning for retirement have been wiped out. 137 00:10:59,655.14956526 --> 00:11:02,798.00670812 They effectively logging into their portal and seeing zero or not much money. 138 00:11:03,198.00670812 --> 00:11:04,226.57813669 Oh my goodness. 139 00:11:04,369.43527955 --> 00:11:09,912.2924224 Accounts that once show $800,000 shrank to just a few thousand dollars overnight and their accounts frozen. 140 00:11:11,369.43527955 --> 00:11:11,399.43527955 Oh. 141 00:11:11,399.43527955 --> 00:11:16,619.43527955 Imagine if this was you, and I'm sure a lot of these people were on the brink of retirement. 142 00:11:16,919.43527955 --> 00:11:17,69.43527955 Mm-hmm. 143 00:11:17,819.43527955 --> 00:11:21,569.43527955 And also many was, uh, small business owners that had self-managed super funds. 144 00:11:21,759.43527955 --> 00:11:22,959.43527955 For many in the threads. 145 00:11:23,169.43527955 --> 00:11:24,789.43527955 Investors did the right checks. 146 00:11:24,919.43527955 --> 00:11:28,729.43527955 They made sure they were licensed, they spoke to a accredited financial advisor. 147 00:11:29,59.43527955 --> 00:11:34,49.43527955 They were using credible platform forms like Netwealth and the Macquarie investment platform. 148 00:11:34,769.43527955 --> 00:11:41,849.43527955 And it turns out that this is now a huge Ponzi scheme with some theft involved. 149 00:11:42,959.43527955 --> 00:11:44,759.43527955 Okay, so it's. 150 00:11:44,759.43527955 --> 00:11:51,869.43527955 Sounding very shady, but I'm sure they came across as quite legit in their time. 151 00:11:51,869.43527955 --> 00:12:03,740.86385098 So what was the marketing like? It must have been next level convincing you are a marketer if someone gave you $45 million to spend on a six month campaign oh, Claire, I'd take that any day. 152 00:12:03,740.86385098 --> 00:12:04,312.2924224 That's huge. 153 00:12:04,493.24480336 --> 00:12:04,769.43527955 Yeah. 154 00:12:04,974.19718431 --> 00:12:09,431.34004145 But what would you get for 45 million? Whatever you want. 155 00:12:09,902.76861288 --> 00:12:12,988.48289859 And more, honestly, you could do so much with that money. 156 00:12:13,359.91147002 --> 00:12:18,645.62575574 Um, you could have the most craziest wackiest idea, but the amount of spend you would put behind it would make anyone convinced. 157 00:12:18,645.62575574 --> 00:12:23,759.91147002 What about if you were spending on like the digital spend? Oh, the limit does not exist. 158 00:12:23,788.48289859 --> 00:12:25,417.05432717 That is significant dollars. 159 00:12:25,417.05432717 --> 00:12:28,245.62575574 You, you would be showing up on like the top of Google and that sort of thing. 160 00:12:28,340.86385098 --> 00:12:28,855.14956526 Well, yeah. 161 00:12:28,855.14956526 --> 00:12:33,769.43527955 I mean, if you are, if people are searching and you do not have a cap to your bidding, yeah, sure. 162 00:12:33,769.43527955 --> 00:12:35,140.86385098 You would outbid. 163 00:12:35,569.43527955 --> 00:12:38,169.43527955 So for anyone else, that's exactly what they were doing. 164 00:12:38,512.2924224 --> 00:12:48,883.72099383 They, Falcon Capitals Capital spent over $45 million on marketing and referral payments and promoting First Guardian as an alternative choice to slow performing industry super funds. 165 00:12:49,255.14956526 --> 00:12:51,998.00670812 And they went absolute gangbusters. 166 00:12:52,140.86385098 --> 00:13:03,131.34004145 They were just splashing the cash they didn't even care about what their return on marketing spend was because they just had to get volume in the door to be able to prop up their Ponzi scheme. 167 00:13:04,159.91147002 --> 00:13:15,74.19718431 I just wonder that messaging around slow performing in super funds as a comparison, I mean, how legally sound is their claims as in their marketing? I don't think they really cared about that, to be honest. 168 00:13:15,74.19718431 --> 00:13:15,131.34004145 Wow. 169 00:13:15,159.91147002 --> 00:13:19,45.62575574 And not picked up, which is unfortunate often with these sort of claims. 170 00:13:19,526.57813669 --> 00:13:31,926.57813669 It goes to market, and it's maybe a year later or two years later that the regulator may investigate it and say, were those claims unsubstantiated or misleading or deceptive? But in this case, they didn't care about longevity. 171 00:13:32,221.81623193 --> 00:13:41,164.67337479 The thing that's bizarre about this is it was the ultimate house of cards and did they know how short their rope was? Wow. 172 00:13:41,564.67337479 --> 00:13:56,250.3876605 What, how they approached it is they did a lot of cold calling, getting people in for free super reviews, and they would come in and speak to a financial advisor from Venture Egg and they would go from there and they'd get, you know, they'd be brought into the shininess. 173 00:13:56,250.3876605 --> 00:14:07,383.72099383 The reviews at the time were excellent because people were seeing on paper these amazing returns, that marketing spend and all those marketers that got paid an obscene amount of money at many marketing firms, this is so juicy. 174 00:14:07,431.34004145 --> 00:14:09,459.91147002 So Gab, I'm gonna introduce you. 175 00:14:09,488.48289859 --> 00:14:13,488.48289859 The first man, the man in the middle, David Anderson, and he's at the heart of this. 176 00:14:14,74.19718431 --> 00:14:17,417.05432717 He's been described by colleagues as smart, but emotionally tone deaf. 177 00:14:17,417.05432717 --> 00:14:20,921.81623193 And that was through an expose done in the Australian Anderson. 178 00:14:20,921.81623193 --> 00:14:22,778.95908907 Grew up in absolute privilege in Hawthorne. 179 00:14:22,950.3876605 --> 00:14:24,93.24480336 He was Hawthorne, Victoria. 180 00:14:24,121.81623193 --> 00:14:24,350.3876605 Hawthorne. 181 00:14:24,350.3876605 --> 00:14:25,293.24480336 Victoria, okay. 182 00:14:25,293.24480336 --> 00:14:28,636.10194621 Educated in finance and worked at Goldman Sachs, JB ware and UBS. 183 00:14:29,664.67337478 --> 00:14:37,959.91147002 They said that he washy hyper intelligent, but had very low emotional intelligence in his peers and for someone to exceed in investment banking. 184 00:14:38,274.19718431 --> 00:14:39,731.34004145 Your relationship management. 185 00:14:40,74.19718431 --> 00:14:46,245.62575574 And ability to read the room and make connections is how you make your money after you go past those first. 186 00:14:46,655.14956526 --> 00:14:50,398.00670812 Former years of being an analyst where it's about grunt work and being math. 187 00:14:50,398.00670812 --> 00:14:57,398.00670812 So his intelligence would've helped him early in the early days, but then as, yeah, as those soft skills become more and more important, he couldn't. 188 00:14:57,712.2924224 --> 00:15:04,912.2924224 So after being made redundant, he set up Falcon with Simon SalMar and he successfully recruited heavy hitters. 189 00:15:05,298.00670812 --> 00:15:15,621.81623193 He had former BHB execs and veteran agribusiness leaders to paper over governance and sort of set them up, having heavy hitters like that helped to make his firm look very legitimate. 190 00:15:16,774.19718431 --> 00:15:20,845.62575574 But someone else described him as someone who only ever worked when there was a cut in it for him. 191 00:15:22,59.91147002 --> 00:15:22,745.62575574 His ambitious. 192 00:15:22,745.62575574 --> 00:15:28,602.76861288 Also ambition also extended into agriculture and he launched agri funds and platforms targeting Chinese investments. 193 00:15:28,859.91147002 --> 00:15:35,888.48289859 But most of these failed 'cause he didn't have the skills and capability to deliver on them, and his focus was enriching his own benefits. 194 00:15:36,431.34004145 --> 00:15:40,383.72099383 Seems like he's got a lot of blind spots for a finance bro. 195 00:15:40,812.2924224 --> 00:15:44,726.57813669 Yeah, I mean he's coming across as that like quintessential finance bro right now. 196 00:15:44,726.57813669 --> 00:15:45,298.00670812 Totally. 197 00:15:46,869.43527955 --> 00:15:48,926.57813669 So Ponzi scheme 1 0 1, talk me through this. 198 00:15:49,983.72099383 --> 00:15:54,983.72099383 So Ponzi schemes pay investors earlier with money from new investors. 199 00:15:55,212.2924224 --> 00:15:56,612.2924224 So they're not real returns. 200 00:15:56,659.91147002 --> 00:16:00,31.34004145 They're not actually investing the money or they're not investing the money to what they say they are. 201 00:16:00,745.62575574 --> 00:16:03,917.05432717 And the illusion holds until inflows dry up the most. 202 00:16:04,431.34004145 --> 00:16:09,59.91147002 I was gonna say before I interrupt you, but like in my mind right now, is Wolf of Wall Street. 203 00:16:09,117.05432717 --> 00:16:09,459.91147002 Yes. 204 00:16:09,788.48289859 --> 00:16:11,102.76861288 With the washed up more. 205 00:16:11,159.91147002 --> 00:16:11,902.76861288 Bernie Madoff. 206 00:16:12,188.48289859 --> 00:16:12,731.34004145 Oh yeah, true. 207 00:16:12,759.91147002 --> 00:16:14,74.19718431 Bernie Madoff is probably the best. 208 00:16:14,102.76861288 --> 00:16:15,388.48289859 Ponzi scheme or Melissa Caddick. 209 00:16:15,417.05432717 --> 00:16:16,845.62575574 You know the lady that cut off her leg? Yes. 210 00:16:16,874.19718431 --> 00:16:18,217.05432717 Or they found her leg? Yes. 211 00:16:18,217.05432717 --> 00:16:21,655.14956526 Whichever, which spirit theory you wanna believe? The chicken or the egg? Yeah. 212 00:16:22,655.14956526 --> 00:16:23,369.43527955 Infest Guardian. 213 00:16:23,369.43527955 --> 00:16:31,969.43527955 It's been confirmed that liquidators found new investor funds were being used to pay for redemptions and expenses, and that's why we suspect this was a Ponzi behavior. 214 00:16:32,40.86385098 --> 00:16:32,69.43527955 Okay. 215 00:16:32,774.19718431 --> 00:16:39,402.76861288 Anderson also made a series of loans to ventures he controlled and also loans to others in the industry. 216 00:16:41,12.2924224 --> 00:16:42,412.2924224 Claire, take us back. 217 00:16:42,755.1495653 --> 00:16:42,955.1495653 Okay. 218 00:16:42,955.1495653 --> 00:16:45,298.0067081 I'll take you guys through a timeline of what's actually occurred. 219 00:16:45,640.863851 --> 00:16:48,183.7209938 So 2019 to 20, the fund launches. 220 00:16:48,469.4352795 --> 00:16:59,469.4352795 Anderson rep reportedly used fund capital to buy a Lamborghini and pay off his 9 million Hawthorne, Yara River Mansion mortgage, and he also invested in millions into pet projects. 221 00:16:59,674.1971843 --> 00:17:01,783.7209938 And just a side note, gab Sky's. 222 00:17:02,798.0067081 --> 00:17:03,740.863851 Guy's a bit of a loser. 223 00:17:03,769.4352795 --> 00:17:06,826.5781367 Like this is the way he tried to get in with people. 224 00:17:06,940.863851 --> 00:17:07,884.6733748 Oh, he tried to buy his way in. 225 00:17:07,889.4352795 --> 00:17:15,55.1495653 He bought his way into like, invest into the community and to be, you know, hoo who of Melbourne splashing the cash to prop up restaurant groups and developments. 226 00:17:15,683.7209938 --> 00:17:16,312.2924224 It's just sad. 227 00:17:16,312.2924224 --> 00:17:17,226.5781367 Really? Mm. 228 00:17:18,340.863851 --> 00:17:19,198.0067081 2021. 229 00:17:19,198.0067081 --> 00:17:20,69.4352795 2023. 230 00:17:20,340.863851 --> 00:17:25,898.0067081 Hawkes, I am the former partner, reports him to the ASIC as early as 2019 and 2021. 231 00:17:26,521.8162319 --> 00:17:37,7.5305176 Despite all this, ASIC does not act until 2024, so they three years later, three years, they allow him to go on despite the fact so much partners report him for poor governance activity. 232 00:17:37,693.2448034 --> 00:17:42,588.4828986 March, 2024 is when asic finally issues warnings, and this makes me infuriated. 233 00:17:43,602.7686129 --> 00:17:56,774.1971843 Two days later, Anderson moves 188 million offshore to a Singaporean entity he controlled, which makes $242 million he has sent offshore to entities where he is affiliated to. 234 00:17:57,488.4828986 --> 00:17:58,974.1971843 Oh, huge red flag. 235 00:17:59,69.4352795 --> 00:18:02,126.5781367 Do you reckon that money's coming back? No, I don't think so. 236 00:18:02,298.0067081 --> 00:18:06,912.2924224 Just a side note, so I'm just gonna say, I don't know how long this guy's gonna go to jail for. 237 00:18:07,526.5781367 --> 00:18:12,812.2924224 The people that have gone to the longest sentence I kind of know for white crime is those two boys that, yeah. 238 00:18:12,812.2924224 --> 00:18:17,783.7209938 What do they call a crime? Did the insider trading scandal, how long do they get? Seven years. 239 00:18:17,783.7209938 --> 00:18:18,612.2924224 It's nothing. 240 00:18:18,612.2924224 --> 00:18:23,98.0067081 Would you go to jail for seven years to keep $242 million? Yep. 241 00:18:23,726.5781367 --> 00:18:24,298.0067081 In a heartbeat. 242 00:18:24,683.7209938 --> 00:18:25,626.5781367 What's seven years? Okay. 243 00:18:25,626.5781367 --> 00:18:29,312.2924224 What, seven years If you've got that money, like if I'm him? No. 244 00:18:29,398.0067081 --> 00:18:30,426.5781367 And he is already in his forties. 245 00:18:30,426.5781367 --> 00:18:32,740.863851 Like he's, he passed the point of prime. 246 00:18:32,826.5781367 --> 00:18:33,312.2924224 Yeah. 247 00:18:33,369.4352795 --> 00:18:33,912.2924224 One would thing. 248 00:18:33,912.2924224 --> 00:18:34,140.863851 So, right. 249 00:18:34,512.2924224 --> 00:18:38,940.863851 I'm just gonna make up, he's like 45, so he's gonna be out at 52 with $242 million. 250 00:18:39,26.5781367 --> 00:18:43,883.7209938 But he's got, he's, even if he ages in that time, even if he's health suffers, he's got all the money to fix that. 251 00:18:44,55.1495653 --> 00:18:47,883.7209938 Do you know what I mean? I feel like natural justice on this should be, if he is guilty. 252 00:18:47,912.2924224 --> 00:18:49,112.2924224 'cause this is all allegedly. 253 00:18:49,112.2924224 --> 00:18:57,226.5781367 Is it, is it dependent to how many people's lives you have affected? Like, is that part of the con contribution of how they assess? No, there's sentencing guidelines for this stuff. 254 00:18:57,312.2924224 --> 00:18:57,655.1495653 Mm. 255 00:18:57,740.863851 --> 00:19:02,383.7209938 And it unfortunately doesn't favor really long custodial sentences. 256 00:19:02,383.7209938 --> 00:19:06,55.1495653 I would love if the sentence was like, you can't come out of prison until you return the money. 257 00:19:06,455.1495653 --> 00:19:07,140.863851 Well, this is the thing. 258 00:19:07,140.863851 --> 00:19:11,721.8162319 If it's hypothetically seven years, I understand why he's not really deterred by the risk. 259 00:19:12,221.8162319 --> 00:19:13,707.5305176 Yeah, I mean, if that's the worst case scenario. 260 00:19:13,993.2448034 --> 00:19:14,250.3876605 Yeah. 261 00:19:15,50.3876605 --> 00:19:16,650.3876605 2024 in May. 262 00:19:16,726.5781367 --> 00:19:23,98.0067081 Withdrawals from First Guardian was suspended and investors were locked out, so it's now been over a year and they have not had access to their money. 263 00:19:23,698.0067081 --> 00:19:34,478.9590891 February, 2025, ASIC obtains Court orders freezing Falcon First Guardian and Anderson's Asset, and also issued them travel bans until 2026 against Anderson and Sal Marsh. 264 00:19:35,759.91147 --> 00:19:47,7.5305176 Since then liquidators have been appointed and they have come up with a anticipation that the shortfall is going to be 450 to $580 million. 265 00:19:47,150.3876605 --> 00:19:52,745.6257557 Oh, that means for every dollar invested at vest, investors might see 20 cents on the dollar. 266 00:19:53,907.5305176 --> 00:19:56,864.6733748 Oh, that is, so 500,000, you get a hundred thousand. 267 00:19:56,864.6733748 --> 00:20:00,236.1019462 That is life changing in the worst way, this has obviously gone out. 268 00:20:00,236.1019462 --> 00:20:01,7.5305176 It's public. 269 00:20:01,436.1019462 --> 00:20:07,321.8162319 Does everyone know who is affected? We don't know. 270 00:20:07,493.2448034 --> 00:20:10,283.7209938 Like there's 6,000 people that were in the fund that have been impacted. 271 00:20:10,312.2924224 --> 00:20:10,855.1495653 Yeah. 272 00:20:11,798.0067081 --> 00:20:12,769.4352795 Financial advisors. 273 00:20:12,769.4352795 --> 00:20:19,369.4352795 So those that had a statement of advice in recommending them to the fund would be eligible for compensation. 274 00:20:19,398.0067081 --> 00:20:19,626.5781367 Yep. 275 00:20:19,998.0067081 --> 00:20:22,826.5781367 That's a maximum of $140,000. 276 00:20:22,998.0067081 --> 00:20:24,217.0543272 Oh and that's. 277 00:20:25,88.4828986 --> 00:20:26,888.4828986 It's not gonna scratch the surface of some of them. 278 00:20:26,936.1019462 --> 00:20:33,993.2448034 So where did the money go? 69 million went into Anderson's PET projects, which include Fox Friday Brewing, and it collapsed. 279 00:20:34,450.3876605 --> 00:20:39,183.7209938 Rogue trader restaurants, which was, the restaurant group by Scott Pickett also collapsed. 280 00:20:39,440.863851 --> 00:20:39,640.863851 Ugh. 281 00:20:39,840.863851 --> 00:20:41,240.863851 Chito Property Fund. 282 00:20:41,383.7209938 --> 00:20:42,355.1495653 They never paid it back. 283 00:20:42,698.0067081 --> 00:20:42,926.5781367 Oh. 284 00:20:42,926.5781367 --> 00:20:43,640.863851 For their loans. 285 00:20:43,640.863851 --> 00:20:43,983.7209938 My goodness. 286 00:20:44,40.863851 --> 00:20:45,698.0067081 And they, uh, gab also collapsed. 287 00:20:45,698.0067081 --> 00:20:47,326.5781367 Well, actually they Phoenix, but yeah. 288 00:20:47,383.7209938 --> 00:20:47,698.0067081 Collapsed. 289 00:20:47,698.0067081 --> 00:20:49,726.5781367 They Phoenix also collapsed. 290 00:20:49,783.7209938 --> 00:20:50,269.4352795 Yeah. 291 00:20:50,402.7686129 --> 00:20:51,602.7686129 $242 million. 292 00:20:51,602.7686129 --> 00:20:58,945.6257557 As we mentioned, Anderson moved overseas, likely not likely to be retrieved and millions so that, you know, at least. 293 00:20:59,202.7686129 --> 00:21:02,802.7686129 45 million in marketing payments went to Venture Egg and other advisors. 294 00:21:03,259.91147 --> 00:21:06,202.7686129 Despite, despite gap, and this makes me infuriated. 295 00:21:06,202.7686129 --> 00:21:09,717.0543272 Yeah, invested documents claiming advisors receive no fees. 296 00:21:10,174.1971843 --> 00:21:15,402.7686129 What? So after the Royal Banking Commission, they created a lot of legislation that stopped. 297 00:21:15,788.4828986 --> 00:21:30,978.9590891 Financial advisors being remunerated to recommend specific products so that parallel marketing, so this was particularly prevalent in like banks where the financial advisors just coincidentally always recommended their own banking products and they received higher commissions for recommending those. 298 00:21:32,307.5305176 --> 00:21:45,736.1019462 And this fundamentally changed the remuneration structure for financial advising industry, and they received a percentage allocation for managing or preparing a statement of advice and supporting funds under management rather than receiving commission for the products that they recommend. 299 00:21:46,602.7686129 --> 00:21:54,145.6257557 Honestly, the effect is just humongous and to bring the human cost to life here. 300 00:21:54,845.6257557 --> 00:21:56,559.91147 It's really disheartening. 301 00:21:56,759.91147 --> 00:22:03,102.7686129 A 41-year-old business owner's super balance dropped from $800,000 to $6,000. 302 00:22:03,131.3400415 --> 00:22:03,674.1971843 Yeah. 303 00:22:04,169.4352795 --> 00:22:08,883.7209938 We also know of a retiree needing surgery had their super locked up and delayed. 304 00:22:08,969.4352795 --> 00:22:09,312.2924224 Yeah. 305 00:22:09,312.2924224 --> 00:22:10,283.7209938 And they're in a lot of pain. 306 00:22:10,283.7209938 --> 00:22:13,226.5781367 They need back surgery and this is just debilitating for them. 307 00:22:13,226.5781367 --> 00:22:13,650.3876605 It is. 308 00:22:14,593.2448034 --> 00:22:16,198.0067081 A pie sized brewery owner. 309 00:22:16,593.2448034 --> 00:22:25,878.9590891 Is that, that's not the same brewery is it? No different brewery, but lost both his super savings and his client's business when Fox Friday collapsed. 310 00:22:25,907.5305176 --> 00:22:33,21.8162319 Yeah, they were, um, over leveraged and many victims had trusted licensed advice and platform listed. 311 00:22:33,740.863851 --> 00:22:37,769.4352795 Only discovered that will misled by jargon very deep in documents. 312 00:22:37,798.0067081 --> 00:22:42,312.2924224 Or what is most disturbing is this thing called a negative consent model. 313 00:22:42,312.2924224 --> 00:22:45,512.2924224 And how this happens is the victims are lured in. 314 00:22:45,569.4352795 --> 00:22:52,312.2924224 Yeah, they meet with the financial advisor and they say, I can get you these amazing returns on a very vanilla. 315 00:22:52,526.5781367 --> 00:22:53,440.863851 Set of investments. 316 00:22:53,440.863851 --> 00:22:58,40.863851 So that might be, we'll put some in an investment super fund, we'll put some in some diversified assets. 317 00:22:58,40.863851 --> 00:23:02,240.863851 And diversified assets are assets where investments move in different directions. 318 00:23:02,383.7209938 --> 00:23:06,755.1495653 So if one investment does poorly, it means the other one will likely do quite well. 319 00:23:06,831.3400415 --> 00:23:12,450.3876605 So these people felt based on the, investments that seemed reasonable, but they ran this thing called a negative consent model. 320 00:23:12,450.3876605 --> 00:23:12,507.5305176 Yeah. 321 00:23:12,564.6733748 --> 00:23:22,78.9590891 And what that means, gab, is they were sent a notification and some people are saying they didn't get these notifications where I'm gonna move all your money into. 322 00:23:22,921.8162319 --> 00:23:28,550.3876605 First Guardian asset fund, and if you don't tell me no within seven days, I'm just gonna go ahead and do it. 323 00:23:29,750.3876605 --> 00:23:30,778.9590891 Oh, you're kidding. 324 00:23:31,550.3876605 --> 00:23:32,721.8162319 Never heard of anything like that. 325 00:23:32,750.3876605 --> 00:23:34,378.9590891 That is so not normal. 326 00:23:34,378.9590891 --> 00:23:39,488.4828986 Is that it's also, how much of a leg do they have to stand on on that? I mean. 327 00:23:40,378.9590891 --> 00:23:40,864.6733748 Oh, none. 328 00:23:40,921.8162319 --> 00:23:42,93.2448034 Like that's part of the scam. 329 00:23:42,407.5305176 --> 00:23:42,836.1019462 Yeah. 330 00:23:42,836.1019462 --> 00:23:52,7.5305176 But those people just thought, okay, because if they had said, I'm gonna put a hundred percent in First Guardian investment fund, they probably would never have agreed to the statement of advice in the first place. 331 00:23:52,74.1971843 --> 00:23:57,445.6257557 What's effectively failed here? Um, David Anderson Orchestrator Misuser of funds. 332 00:23:57,874.1971843 --> 00:23:59,731.3400415 Was allowed to basically get away with it. 333 00:23:59,731.3400415 --> 00:24:02,559.91147 And he had many people tell him, you are doing the wrong thing. 334 00:24:02,759.91147 --> 00:24:09,398.0067081 Many people raised the flags and ASIC did not act until he had been in this industry for many years doing this. 335 00:24:10,198.0067081 --> 00:24:16,369.4352795 Simon Salman, she's co-director Insider, was complicit in major transactions that occurred for us. 336 00:24:16,369.4352795 --> 00:24:24,55.1495653 Mary brought thousands of people into the fund through their marketing activities, allegedly received undisclosed millions in fees. 337 00:24:24,840.863851 --> 00:24:40,74.1971843 Oh, how do they sleep at night? This is just a case gab of, and they're all men of men feeling like they're so clever, but at some point they, you have to sort of switch off the humanity, don't you? Because I don't know how else they can do this to so many innocent people. 338 00:24:40,559.91147 --> 00:24:43,45.6257557 Yeah, it, there is something not quite right there. 339 00:24:43,859.91147 --> 00:24:56,193.2448034 What is super interesting is the platform and trustees, so Netwealth equity trustees, diverse and Macquarie could actually be under fire because they allowed them to use their systems without adequate scrutiny. 340 00:24:56,478.9590891 --> 00:24:57,78.9590891 Yeah, true. 341 00:24:57,78.9590891 --> 00:25:01,593.2448034 What are all the sense checks? Honestly, how were they on there? It just increases their authority. 342 00:25:01,621.8162319 --> 00:25:01,936.1019462 Yeah. 343 00:25:01,936.1019462 --> 00:25:06,45.6257557 If you are gonna have them on their platform, you need to have due diligence that they're legitimate in what they say now. 344 00:25:06,45.6257557 --> 00:25:11,521.8162319 But I think how many of the other, um, how many of the other funds are on there? Mm. 345 00:25:11,578.9590891 --> 00:25:13,407.5305176 That haven't been through due diligence. 346 00:25:13,693.2448034 --> 00:25:14,121.8162319 Exactly. 347 00:25:14,407.5305176 --> 00:25:18,321.8162319 Where else is this gonna come out? Yeah, looking ahead. 348 00:25:18,321.8162319 --> 00:25:21,931.3400415 So what's gonna happen next? The liquidators are still working through the asset. 349 00:25:21,931.3400415 --> 00:25:27,245.6257557 Recoveries could take many years, and that's if they can even recover much more. 350 00:25:28,559.91147 --> 00:25:36,788.4828986 The court cases is only just starting, so ASIC and the courts are investigating criminal charges and there's also talks of class actions. 351 00:25:37,217.0543272 --> 00:25:38,845.6257557 Particularly against the platforms. 352 00:25:38,902.7686129 --> 00:25:45,359.91147 Yeah, because you can't, you can't flog a dead horse these, once you've already taken all the assets away from these individuals that are part of this. 353 00:25:45,474.1971843 --> 00:25:47,559.91147 Who else do you go after? The platforms? Yep. 354 00:25:47,617.0543272 --> 00:25:49,674.1971843 That will drag on for years. 355 00:25:50,102.7686129 --> 00:26:02,245.6257557 And calls are growing for stronger reform in best interest duties in financial advice, tighter oversight in self-managed super funds and manage investment schemes and better transparency in fees and marketing conflicts. 356 00:26:02,512.2924224 --> 00:26:03,283.7209938 The last point. 357 00:26:03,683.7209938 --> 00:26:05,83.7209938 These people were acting deceitful. 358 00:26:05,83.7209938 --> 00:26:05,140.863851 Yeah. 359 00:26:05,140.863851 --> 00:26:06,655.1495653 So they weren't legitimate. 360 00:26:06,940.863851 --> 00:26:16,55.1495653 But I think it's so important that if you are investigating self-managed super funds, you need to know the risks and you need to know that there are a lot of dodgy scams out there. 361 00:26:16,655.1495653 --> 00:26:17,226.5781367 Yeah. 362 00:26:17,321.8162319 --> 00:26:21,64.6733748 6,000 people didn't think twice. 363 00:26:22,407.5305176 --> 00:26:23,950.3876605 They, everything looked legitimate. 364 00:26:23,998.0067081 --> 00:26:25,26.5781367 They had credentials. 365 00:26:25,26.5781367 --> 00:26:27,912.2924224 The platforms were respected, the paperwork was there. 366 00:26:29,340.863851 --> 00:26:34,512.2924224 But what is our advice then as non-financial advisors? Just really do research. 367 00:26:34,664.6733748 --> 00:26:35,636.1019462 Do your research. 368 00:26:35,750.3876605 --> 00:26:42,36.1019462 If you don't know or you're not comfortable, look up who are some of the leading super funds in Australia and pursue maybe those Yeah. 369 00:26:42,293.2448034 --> 00:26:45,283.7209938 Or speak to someone you trust and do due diligence. 370 00:26:45,283.7209938 --> 00:26:49,512.2924224 But unfortunately, these people did their due diligence and they still weren't safe. 371 00:26:50,226.5781367 --> 00:26:50,712.2924224 Exactly. 372 00:26:52,824.2924224 --> 00:27:07,348.1019462 Okay, so Gab, guess who just landed herself in the most bougie prison in America and she's sharing the yard with Elizabeth Holmes, the Theranos swindler and Real Housewives scam. 373 00:27:07,348.1019462 --> 00:27:08,348.1019462 Queen Jenisha. 374 00:27:08,805.2448034 --> 00:27:11,62.3876605 Please do not tell me that it's Ghislaine Maxwell. 375 00:27:11,433.8162319 --> 00:27:14,833.8162319 Please do not tell me that she's there in this club fed right now. 376 00:27:15,90.9590891 --> 00:27:15,776.6733748 She is. 377 00:27:16,62.3876605 --> 00:27:18,548.1019462 She has been moved to FPC Brian. 378 00:27:18,919.5305176 --> 00:27:26,833.8162319 Ak, the four seasons of federal prison, minimum security, dorm style housing, and white collar conflicts galore. 379 00:27:27,519.5305176 --> 00:27:29,719.5305176 She's probably already organizing a book club or something. 380 00:27:29,948.1019462 --> 00:27:36,33.8162319 What is it? A part-time prison like This is barely a consequence. 381 00:27:36,662.3876605 --> 00:27:44,948.1019462 Ghislaine Maxwell was convict, is a convicted sex trafficker and Epstein's fixer in chief and has been transferred to the federal prison. 382 00:27:45,671.91147 --> 00:27:56,929.0543272 It is known for housing nonviolent offenders and her current release date is July, 2037 and she's been making some big moves to try and change that. 383 00:27:57,929.0543272 --> 00:28:02,986.1971843 Maxwell recently sat down with Attorney General Todd Blanche, who is. 384 00:28:03,743.3400415 --> 00:28:07,543.3400415 Well, he was Trump's personal lawyer over two days. 385 00:28:07,571.91147 --> 00:28:14,152.863851 She discussed a list of a hundred Epstein linked names that was provided to her. 386 00:28:14,467.1495653 --> 00:28:19,524.2924224 So it wasn't like a, you tell us information, it was, you tell us information about these people. 387 00:28:19,524.2924224 --> 00:28:28,752.863851 Like do you reckon like Sleepy Joe's number one, like crooked Obama's number two and like, I mean, it's a hundred names. 388 00:28:29,38.5781367 --> 00:28:29,781.4352795 It could be all of the above. 389 00:28:31,367.1495653 --> 00:28:36,129.0543272 My theory on this is because the Democrats have been flaming the fire mm-hmm. 390 00:28:36,471.91147 --> 00:28:43,357.6257557 They're just gonna give him a list of like a hundred people that a Democrat or Democratic donor affiliated to try and dig up dirt on them. 391 00:28:44,310.0067081 --> 00:28:45,852.863851 I mean, it's a good opportunity to do that. 392 00:28:46,24.2924224 --> 00:28:48,767.1495653 It will certainly dig up a lot about those people. 393 00:28:48,910.0067081 --> 00:28:49,81.4352795 Yes. 394 00:28:49,81.4352795 --> 00:28:50,52.863851 If they're on the list. 395 00:28:50,252.863851 --> 00:28:50,538.5781367 Yeah. 396 00:28:51,233.8162319 --> 00:28:55,662.3876605 So basically a curated gossip power with a convicted child abuser. 397 00:28:56,790.9590891 --> 00:28:57,648.1019462 She's a parent. 398 00:28:58,190.9590891 --> 00:29:01,19.5305176 She needs to just accept she did the wrong thing. 399 00:29:01,133.8162319 --> 00:29:01,505.2448034 I know. 400 00:29:01,505.2448034 --> 00:29:03,333.8162319 I just just sit in it. 401 00:29:03,705.2448034 --> 00:29:05,905.2448034 Take accountability for a second. 402 00:29:06,990.9590891 --> 00:29:11,19.5305176 She's now openly seeking a presidential pardon or clemency, most likely from Trump. 403 00:29:11,562.3876605 --> 00:29:16,905.2448034 Her condition for testifying before Congress is that she won't do that without, a pardon or clemency. 404 00:29:17,105.2448034 --> 00:29:18,76.6733748 And I mean, that does make sense. 405 00:29:18,76.6733748 --> 00:29:20,933.8162319 You can't be saying, I did this, I did that. 406 00:29:21,19.5305176 --> 00:29:26,819.5305176 When you are also trying to go through the Supreme Court and seek an appeal against your conviction and saying it was unsafe. 407 00:29:27,533.8162319 --> 00:29:27,790.9590891 Yeah. 408 00:29:28,790.9590891 --> 00:29:32,219.5305176 So otherwise what she'll say, she's just pleading the fifth. 409 00:29:32,505.2448034 --> 00:29:32,733.8162319 Yeah. 410 00:29:32,733.8162319 --> 00:29:37,362.3876605 She's like, if you make me talk about this without a pardon, I'm just gonna say I plead the fifth to not incriminate myself. 411 00:29:37,362.3876605 --> 00:29:38,619.5305176 And she'll just respond that to every. 412 00:29:39,5.2448034 --> 00:29:42,33.8162319 Answer, she seriously deserves a jail cell. 413 00:29:42,557.6257557 --> 00:29:48,900.4828986 I don't care how many rich men that she's come to name drop as part of this, but she needs to stop saving her own skin. 414 00:29:49,129.0543272 --> 00:29:49,414.7686129 Yeah. 415 00:29:50,414.7686129 --> 00:30:05,914.7686129 Ghislaine Maxwell is appealing her sentence, and she's arguing that she should have been protected by Epstein's 2008 non-pro prosecution deal because they said that they would indemnify all people that were named in this indictment. 416 00:30:06,657.6257557 --> 00:30:16,429.0543272 But then they listed four people that were specifically called out and she's like, well, they didn't call me out, but I'm still all people named in this indictment, therefore I've got immunity. 417 00:30:16,914.7686129 --> 00:30:18,143.3400415 And that's in California. 418 00:30:18,143.3400415 --> 00:30:22,933.8162319 So bit murky and she and you had that kind of came down and she was jailed in New York and tried in New York. 419 00:30:22,933.8162319 --> 00:30:24,248.1019462 So bit murky there. 420 00:30:24,248.1019462 --> 00:30:29,190.9590891 But she's saying the Supreme Court could make her conviction unsafe because she technically had immunity. 421 00:30:30,190.9590891 --> 00:30:32,648.1019462 She's still managing to make this whole thing about herself. 422 00:30:33,133.8162319 --> 00:30:33,819.5305176 She's abhorrent. 423 00:30:34,819.5305176 --> 00:30:38,305.2448034 Do we, think though that Trump might pardon her? Maybe. 424 00:30:38,362.3876605 --> 00:30:38,733.8162319 Yeah. 425 00:30:38,819.5305176 --> 00:30:39,676.6733748 I wouldn't be surprised. 426 00:30:39,676.6733748 --> 00:30:39,905.2448034 Yeah. 427 00:30:40,229.0543272 --> 00:30:46,686.1971843 Although if that happens, the uproar, I'm just so that the nation will be divided once again. 428 00:30:46,829.0543272 --> 00:30:48,919.5305176 I mean, it's been divided every month of the year, so I know. 429 00:30:48,919.5305176 --> 00:30:52,57.6257557 No, it's just there is a new headline every week. 430 00:30:52,57.6257557 --> 00:30:52,59.5305176 Every week. 431 00:30:52,86.1971843 --> 00:30:52,457.6257557 Yeah. 432 00:30:54,417.2448034 --> 00:30:55,760.1019462 Claire this weekend. 433 00:30:55,760.1019462 --> 00:31:00,960.1019462 Victorian Premier Jacinda Allen basically dropped a cultural bombshell at Labor State Conference. 434 00:31:00,960.1019462 --> 00:31:15,331.5305176 She announced that the government will introduce legislation in 2026, get this to enshrine the right to work from home at least two days a week, and they're exploring ways to make that part of the human rights charter. 435 00:31:16,160.1019462 --> 00:31:20,417.2448034 It's bold, it's symbolic, and it's going to stir a lot of debate. 436 00:31:21,131.5305176 --> 00:31:22,45.8162319 Oh, a hundred percent. 437 00:31:22,731.5305176 --> 00:31:25,302.9590891 This is not just a policy, it's politics. 438 00:31:25,617.2448034 --> 00:31:27,674.3876605 Labor in Victoria's had a rough trot. 439 00:31:28,102.9590891 --> 00:31:31,702.9590891 They've had project delays, cost blowout, especially on public transport. 440 00:31:32,245.8162319 --> 00:31:36,617.2448034 And the public's have been feeling that squeeze, particularly in taxes that are being collected. 441 00:31:36,617.2448034 --> 00:31:36,702.9590891 Mm-hmm. 442 00:31:37,188.6733748 --> 00:31:45,560.1019462 And I think they realized they needed a big win before next year's state election and getting this change in now. 443 00:31:46,441.0543272 --> 00:31:50,298.1971843 Would mean that people would have the benefits leading up to the election and it could be something that they delivered. 444 00:31:50,641.0543272 --> 00:31:50,955.3400415 Yeah. 445 00:31:51,79.1495653 --> 00:31:54,507.7209938 So the announcement sets Victoria up as a national test case, really? Mm-hmm. 446 00:31:55,79.1495653 --> 00:32:00,964.863851 With Alan capitalizing on Peter Duns FB push for an office first campaign federally, which backfired. 447 00:32:01,593.4352795 --> 00:32:06,593.4352795 So they've launched consultations to scope out who will qualify how to legislate. 448 00:32:07,250.5781367 --> 00:32:14,50.5781367 Via the Equal Opportunity Act or the workplace laws and also what defines reasonably able to work from home. 449 00:32:14,107.7209938 --> 00:32:15,164.863851 It all seems a bit vague. 450 00:32:16,136.2924224 --> 00:32:23,850.5781367 It is gonna be vague, and I think in this consultation phase, they're gonna understand the complexities against the public sector, which they can definitely input. 451 00:32:23,850.5781367 --> 00:32:34,712.4828986 And the private sector, where I'm gonna go from here is evaluating, is this just a sugar hit to win voters? And not well thought out. 452 00:32:35,26.7686129 --> 00:32:48,150.5781367 Or is this labor moving us in a bold workplace revolution that's been empowered by technology? This has made me think about this thing called the 8 8 8 movement, and that's Eight hours work. 453 00:32:48,264.863851 --> 00:32:49,64.863851 Eight hours rest. 454 00:32:49,93.4352795 --> 00:32:49,864.863851 Eight hours leisure. 455 00:32:49,893.4352795 --> 00:32:52,579.1495653 And that didn't exist until the late 19th century. 456 00:32:52,922.0067081 --> 00:32:59,36.2924224 Before then, factory workers were doing like 10, 14 hour days, six days a week, and work was all consuming. 457 00:32:59,150.5781367 --> 00:33:00,179.1495653 There was no balance. 458 00:33:00,179.1495653 --> 00:33:02,379.1495653 And there was a lot of injuries in deaths in workplaces. 459 00:33:02,550.5781367 --> 00:33:02,579.1495653 Mm. 460 00:33:03,36.2924224 --> 00:33:10,922.0067081 It was not uncommon for your coworker to die while on the job and people were dying very early as well and being injured 'cause they're out of exhaustion. 461 00:33:12,293.4352795 --> 00:33:14,579.1495653 Whereas 8, 8, 8 model does have a lot more balance. 462 00:33:15,293.4352795 --> 00:33:18,664.863851 Yes, the 8 88 model was considered radical at the time. 463 00:33:18,750.5781367 --> 00:33:23,979.1495653 Employers said it would tank productivity, it would tank the economy, and that workers wouldn't be accountable. 464 00:33:24,236.2924224 --> 00:33:28,664.863851 But what actually happened was fewer injuries, better output, and happier workers. 465 00:33:29,207.7209938 --> 00:33:36,341.0543272 And it was driven by changing technology, electricity, mechanic, ization better, machinery. 466 00:33:36,341.0543272 --> 00:33:41,45.8162319 So having more cranes, cranes that can lift more supplies and economic shifts. 467 00:33:41,460.1019462 --> 00:33:44,260.1019462 And you could kind of say, this is a bit like remote work today. 468 00:33:44,888.6733748 --> 00:33:45,174.3876605 Yeah. 469 00:33:45,231.5305176 --> 00:33:55,345.8162319 I, I guess what we're saying is that work from home, is that 21st century version of that workplace reform or are we romanticizing it too much? Okay. 470 00:33:55,888.6733748 --> 00:33:58,917.2448034 Let's do the, the case for and the case against. 471 00:33:58,917.2448034 --> 00:33:59,431.5305176 I like it. 472 00:33:59,431.5305176 --> 00:33:59,860.1019462 Let's do it. 473 00:34:00,274.3876605 --> 00:34:01,531.5305176 Productivity uplift. 474 00:34:01,588.6733748 --> 00:34:04,588.6733748 So productivity is based on the amount of people working. 475 00:34:04,817.2448034 --> 00:34:13,855.3400415 Are we getting more out of them for the same amount of time and resources of net output per hour? An example of that is commuting is unproductive time. 476 00:34:14,141.0543272 --> 00:34:15,883.91147 Cutting it out frees up that time. 477 00:34:16,312.4828986 --> 00:34:16,512.4828986 Yep. 478 00:34:16,541.0543272 --> 00:34:23,112.4828986 Also, you know, technology means that people are able to communicate more effectively than what they were, so you're getting more output in that regards as well. 479 00:34:24,83.91147 --> 00:34:26,626.7686129 It also means higher workforce participation. 480 00:34:26,826.7686129 --> 00:34:30,912.4828986 And this effect, will really benefit women, carers, and people with disabilities. 481 00:34:31,398.1971843 --> 00:34:33,626.7686129 And it simplifies childcare logistics. 482 00:34:33,626.7686129 --> 00:34:48,407.7209938 So what this means is that a woman who previously didn't participate in the workforce because she couldn't pick up her child from school at 9:00 AM and 3:30 PM due to working from home, she could nip out to do the pickups mm-hmm. 483 00:34:48,722.0067081 --> 00:34:50,322.0067081 For her 10-year-old child. 484 00:34:50,693.4352795 --> 00:34:52,922.0067081 And then she could jump on at night to make up that time. 485 00:34:53,598.1971843 --> 00:35:01,83.91147 So more people working means more productivity in the economy it means theoretically, if we looked at it from an economic expense. 486 00:35:01,583.91147 --> 00:35:05,545.8162319 There should be GDP growth, which is great for our taxes being collected. 487 00:35:05,545.8162319 --> 00:35:07,288.6733748 We've got more money to spend in the community. 488 00:35:07,641.0543272 --> 00:35:12,926.7686129 Lower reliance on welfare and ability to potentially close the gender wage gap. 489 00:35:13,441.0543272 --> 00:35:13,869.6257557 Yeah. 490 00:35:14,422.0067081 --> 00:35:16,907.7209938 And that would support state productivity as well. 491 00:35:17,79.1495653 --> 00:35:17,279.1495653 Yeah. 492 00:35:17,436.2924224 --> 00:35:20,593.4352795 And then the last one is the environmental tool aspects. 493 00:35:20,736.2924224 --> 00:35:22,850.5781367 Less people commuting, fewer emissions. 494 00:35:23,250.5781367 --> 00:35:28,707.7209938 And regional and outer metro workers can also gain access to better jobs and don't need to commute into the city to get those jobs. 495 00:35:28,764.863851 --> 00:35:34,193.4352795 Well, just think about even during COVID, the amount of people that actually moved regional because they finally could. 496 00:35:34,507.7209938 --> 00:35:35,364.863851 Yes, exactly. 497 00:35:35,364.863851 --> 00:35:39,79.1495653 And also the houses in regional areas are often more affordable as well. 498 00:35:39,136.2924224 --> 00:35:39,450.5781367 Yeah. 499 00:35:39,536.2924224 --> 00:35:41,764.863851 So it sounds like a win-win to me. 500 00:35:42,517.2448034 --> 00:35:49,488.6733748 Why isn't everyone on board? What are we not talking to? I think first and foremost, and where you're gonna hear the most amount of noise in the media. 501 00:35:49,817.2448034 --> 00:35:52,131.5305176 Is the loss of employer autonomy. 502 00:35:52,445.8162319 --> 00:35:57,274.3876605 And there's this old saying that my dad says to me all the time, he who pays the piper picks a tune. 503 00:35:58,245.8162319 --> 00:36:00,512.4828986 And I kind of, somewhat agree with this. 504 00:36:00,512.4828986 --> 00:36:05,55.3400415 If you run a business, you should have the right to decide where and how your team works. 505 00:36:05,398.1971843 --> 00:36:06,969.6257557 As long as it's safe and lawful. 506 00:36:07,626.7686129 --> 00:36:18,579.1495653 And this could be perceived as government overreach or you could be stemming the ability for a business to make money or to achieve their objectives by reducing the amount of autonomy this employer can get. 507 00:36:19,150.5781367 --> 00:36:23,436.2924224 But at the same time, if we go back to the 8, 8, 8 model, they also said the same thing. 508 00:36:23,436.2924224 --> 00:36:32,202.9590891 I will be decimated, I will be bankrupted if I have to only, allow these employees to work eight hours and have to pay them a living wage in those eight hours, and they survived. 509 00:36:32,764.863851 --> 00:36:33,307.7209938 They did. 510 00:36:33,307.7209938 --> 00:36:37,222.0067081 And I think part of it is the uncertainty of the unknown. 511 00:36:37,222.0067081 --> 00:36:40,564.863851 And obviously what comes with that is some extremist views. 512 00:36:40,850.5781367 --> 00:36:42,393.4352795 Not seeing the potential. 513 00:36:42,507.7209938 --> 00:36:42,736.2924224 Yeah. 514 00:36:42,764.863851 --> 00:36:44,764.863851 Um, not believing in the potential of the change. 515 00:36:44,822.0067081 --> 00:36:45,107.7209938 Yeah. 516 00:36:45,907.7209938 --> 00:36:47,450.5781367 Productivity isn't universal. 517 00:36:47,622.0067081 --> 00:36:50,536.2924224 Like not every role suits remote work. 518 00:36:50,774.3876605 --> 00:36:52,917.2448034 People say that they collaborate better in person. 519 00:36:52,945.8162319 --> 00:36:54,631.5305176 There's less mentoring opportunities. 520 00:36:55,60.1019462 --> 00:36:58,260.1019462 Real time problem solving, water cooler conversations can suffer. 521 00:36:58,888.6733748 --> 00:37:03,726.7686129 And it's often on the flip side, women that are in roles though it's not suitable. 522 00:37:03,726.7686129 --> 00:37:09,898.1971843 So childcare, teaching, nursing, those kind of employment conditions don't allow it. 523 00:37:09,898.1971843 --> 00:37:18,69.6257557 So you'd say, well, who is the one that's benefiting from being able to work from home? I think on this though, I mean we're not talking about 100% at home. 524 00:37:18,69.6257557 --> 00:37:19,98.1971843 We're talking hybrid. 525 00:37:19,183.91147 --> 00:37:20,69.6257557 Hybrid, exactly. 526 00:37:20,298.1971843 --> 00:37:21,383.91147 Which really. 527 00:37:21,998.1971843 --> 00:37:28,369.6257557 Means that you do have that time at home, but you still can get the benefits of being at the office and having those cooler conversations. 528 00:37:28,398.1971843 --> 00:37:28,998.1971843 Exactly. 529 00:37:30,83.91147 --> 00:37:47,641.0543272 They say that it could be a global talent shift, that if employees can demonstrate that they can work remotely and don't need to be in the office, that could incentivize more employers to offshore, or it could promote employers to shift to other states where they don't have this in their legislation so that they can make their employment location decisions. 530 00:37:48,869.6257557 --> 00:37:49,955.3400415 I mean, that's pretty dramatic. 531 00:37:50,98.1971843 --> 00:37:50,355.3400415 Yeah. 532 00:37:50,355.3400415 --> 00:37:53,583.91147 Especially since it's a test and it might go national, but anyway. 533 00:37:54,41.0543272 --> 00:37:55,612.4828986 Last one is workplace tension. 534 00:37:55,812.4828986 --> 00:37:58,726.7686129 It could create two tiers of workers, the remote and the in office. 535 00:37:58,726.7686129 --> 00:38:07,169.6257557 It could pit people against it, like public facing workers might feel disadvantage or forgotten, and it could create resentment in workplaces where flexibility isn't equal. 536 00:38:08,241.0543272 --> 00:38:12,926.7686129 Could trying to make work more equitable, actually make it more fractured potentially. 537 00:38:12,926.7686129 --> 00:38:13,241.0543272 Yeah. 538 00:38:14,69.6257557 --> 00:38:15,155.3400415 Just two sides on it. 539 00:38:15,155.3400415 --> 00:38:16,498.1971843 What people are saying is. 540 00:38:16,831.5305176 --> 00:38:19,231.5305176 Jenny George, who's the Dean of Melbourne Business School. 541 00:38:19,622.0067081 --> 00:38:22,679.1495653 She's the dean when G and I did our MBAs together. 542 00:38:22,964.863851 --> 00:38:23,50.5781367 Mm-hmm. 543 00:38:23,279.1495653 --> 00:38:30,393.4352795 And she has a lot to say when it comes to work from home, and she's a huge feminist and she's such a great women's advocate. 544 00:38:31,279.1495653 --> 00:38:36,936.2924224 She does question the opportunities that women might be missing when they are working from home. 545 00:38:36,936.2924224 --> 00:38:55,617.2448034 As unfortunately, women often value work from home for the flexibility it gives them in caregiving relationships and they will compromise on their career to do so they miss promotion opportunities, mentoring moments, and that they underestimate the importance of exposure, which you get from being in someone's line of sight. 546 00:38:56,679.1495653 --> 00:38:56,936.2924224 Yeah. 547 00:38:57,164.863851 --> 00:39:03,307.7209938 And, and maybe not underestimate, but they're just forced to compromise on that because they just simply can't be there. 548 00:39:03,393.4352795 --> 00:39:03,736.2924224 Yeah. 549 00:39:03,936.2924224 --> 00:39:07,22.0067081 Her message was, flexibility must come with intentional design. 550 00:39:07,22.0067081 --> 00:39:07,107.7209938 Mm-hmm. 551 00:39:07,450.5781367 --> 00:39:10,593.4352795 Otherwise, you help women in the short term, but you'll stall them in the long term. 552 00:39:10,736.2924224 --> 00:39:13,550.5781367 And we actually could see things like the gender pay gap continue to in. 553 00:39:14,479.1495653 --> 00:39:19,879.1495653 So we're kind of solving one kind of exclusion whilst creating a quieter, more dangerous one. 554 00:39:19,964.863851 --> 00:39:20,307.7209938 Yeah. 555 00:39:20,593.4352795 --> 00:39:30,545.8162319 Whereas like there was another CEO of fund day suites and they spoke about, we don't need it to be legislated 'cause we're doing it anyway because we see the value in it and we design our ways of working around it. 556 00:39:30,755.3400415 --> 00:39:50,926.7686129 It's interesting because we have had these conversations before, going from working solely at home post COVID to transitioning to hybrid, and honestly, it's the same themes in this conversation around what's it gonna do, will people want to do it? How will productivity change? I don't think it should come as a real shock to people. 557 00:39:50,926.7686129 --> 00:39:52,898.1971843 I mean, we've been having these conversations for years now. 558 00:39:53,298.1971843 --> 00:39:57,98.1971843 Do you see work from home as a right? I think it should be. 559 00:39:57,98.1971843 --> 00:40:04,517.2448034 We, we've proven in COVID that it can be done and productivity is maintained, if not improved, and that was when we went back to 100% work from home. 560 00:40:04,945.8162319 --> 00:40:08,374.3876605 Now we're in this phase now of gray, where there's a bit of both. 561 00:40:08,402.9590891 --> 00:40:20,831.5305176 But I think putting regulation around it actually helps because then you can really assess performance if there's a bit more structure, because at the moment, sort of few days here, few days there with a lot of organizations, it's really hard to keep track. 562 00:40:20,888.6733748 --> 00:40:21,345.8162319 Yeah. 563 00:40:21,774.3876605 --> 00:40:25,460.1019462 I actually, I feel like I'm, I have such a polar thought on this one. 564 00:40:25,488.6733748 --> 00:40:25,917.2448034 Yeah. 565 00:40:25,945.8162319 --> 00:40:33,602.9590891 Because I do value work from home when it's afforded to me, but it's not something that I value the most in my employment, but also could be in the face of my life. 566 00:40:33,631.5305176 --> 00:40:33,974.3876605 Yeah. 567 00:40:34,88.6733748 --> 00:40:34,402.9590891 Yeah. 568 00:40:34,545.8162319 --> 00:40:42,345.8162319 And I still get stuck on the fact that I think employers should still have that right to set it, but. 569 00:40:42,888.6733748 --> 00:40:52,791.1495653 I also recognize sentiment, and that is if the majority want it, I think we should explore it because is this the next technology revolution? That's all we've got time for. 570 00:40:53,162.5781367 --> 00:40:54,791.1495653 Beauty, finance, global trade. 571 00:40:54,991.1495653 --> 00:40:57,19.7209938 They're different systems but have the same pattern. 572 00:40:57,334.0067081 --> 00:40:59,876.863851 They thrive when women are left out or keep guessing. 573 00:41:00,219.7209938 --> 00:41:01,362.5781367 But not on our watch. 574 00:41:01,419.7209938 --> 00:41:05,991.1495653 If you love today's episode or it made you rethink what you thought you knew, rate, review, and share spin cycle. 575 00:41:06,191.1495653 --> 00:41:10,48.2924224 We'll catch you next week with more headlines, hidden angles, and a healthy dose of side eye. 576 00:41:10,419.7209938 --> 00:41:11,76.863851 We'll see you then.