May 12, 2025 • 44 mins
Spin Cycle – Episode 11 Election Fallout, Glass‑Cliff Politics & Death‑Cap Diaries
From Australia’s bruising federal election to an American‑born Pope in Rome, this week’s Spin Cycle unpacks the headlines—and the hidden spin—shaping your feed.
Inside the episode
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Liberal Party leadership crisis: Is Susan Ley being set up for a classic glass‑cliff moment? We trace the party’s gender gap, Angus Taylor’s numbers game and what gender quotas could mean for conservative politics in 2025.
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Christine Holgate rewind: How Australia Post’s former CEO went from turnaround star to parliamentary punching bag, and why her saga still echoes through Canberra.
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Death‑Cap Diaries—Erin Patterson mushroom trial update: Day‑by‑day courtroom drama, medical evidence, witness cross‑examinations and the unanswered questions still gripping regional Victoria.
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White smoke & hot takes: Meet Pope Leo XIV (a.k.a. Cardinal Robert Prevost). We break down the conclave intrigue, his progressive‑leaning agenda, and why JD Vance keeps copping papal shade.
Why hit play? If you love sharp Aussie political analysis, feminist leadership chat, true‑crime twists, marketing de‑spin and a sprinkle of pop‑Catholic trivia—served with MBA‑grade banter—this episode is your must‑listen commute companion.
SEO sparkle Australian politics podcast, Liberal Party leadership spill, Susan Ley glass cliff, Christine Holgate Australia Post scandal, Erin Patterson mushroom poisoning trial, true crime Australia, Pope Leo XIV, Catholic Church news, women in leadership, media spin analysis.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We need to come up with a better segment for Barron Patterson.
Trial updates.
We've been brainstorming this last week.
What do you got for me? Oh, I wanted mushroom round up.
And you said it was terrible.
I did.
What about death Cap diaries? Oh, Claire, I think you're onto something.
I think that's gotta be better than Fungi Under fire or Fungi Forensics.
(00:25):
What about grief Wellington? Why are you so good at this? I think I've got a lot of time to think about mushroom puns when I'm spending so much time.
So Turkey hits the fan.
Coming up this week on spin cycle, we're unpacking the election fallout and asking is the liberal party setting.
Susan, lay up for a glass cliff moment to help us answer this.
(00:48):
We're reflecting on the Kristin Holgate saga as a case study in what happens when women are brought in to clean up a mess and then get pushed out.
Plus we've got more context in courtroom drama from the Erin Patterson mushroom trial.
And yes, we have a brand new Pope White smoke has risen.
Let's get into it.
(01:19):
Welcome to Spin Cycle, where we dig into the stories shaping the world and take a closer look at the patterns, power plays.
And yes, the biases hiding in plain sight where Gab and Claire, two friends with MBAs, A lot of opinions and a healthy amount of skepticism.
We're here to help you think twice and maybe have a few laughs.
Let's get spinning.
(01:40):
Gab.
What's top of mind for you this week? Something that's really fresh in my mind and I really feel like I'm still recovering, is driving around yesterday for Mother's Day.
It's like driving at Christmas.
Honestly, the traffic reminds me of Christmas Day, when you're driving in the morning.
Everyone's trying to get somewhere for lunch and then you start seeing the same traffic just before the dinner time.
(02:03):
Mm-hmm.
And everyone is stuck in back to back on the freeway, everything.
I honestly was in the car for so long yesterday I had to go from the west all the way to Bayside.
I was an hour late for lunch.
It was from your, was it your mom's lunch as well? It was mom's lunch.
Mama banana wrapped up with flowers.
Not cope well with that.
No.
(02:23):
No, she was fine.
Look, she was very reasonable.
And yeah, so the lunch was lovely once I arrived, but I could not believe it stuck at every light I was raging.
And when I got home I had a little bit of a teary because I was just like, wow, what a day.
Yeah.
Okay.
That sounds really stressful.
How was your Mother's Day? So I had a very different Mother's Day because my mom and dad have jetted off to Europe for the start of Euro summer, I guess so I went to Costco.
(02:53):
Oh, Claire, that's amazing.
It was quite good.
I bought like a huge jar of Meredith skirt cheese, a huge block of Parmesan cheese.
What else did I get? I got new washing detergent, I got six liters and it's gonna last forever.
You know that you're in your thirties, like we get excited about this stuff.
Even Meredith Goat cheese.
I love it.
(03:13):
It is the best.
Oh, I feel like you would know I'm in significant wealth when I've got six jars of that cheese in my fridge.
Absolutely.
And what's top of mind for you this week, Claire? I had a huge win this week and I am so thrilled about it.
What is it? I accidentally smashed the lens on my camera and I'm showing gab now.
(03:35):
It's broken.
I've got like a little cover on it.
And what is it? Is this like a stick on? It's a stick on thing.
'cause I've actually smashed the lens.
I didn't even know you could buy that.
Yeah, I got on Amazon because it was broken and one thing I did not realize is my credit card has phone damage insurance.
What? Yes.
I had no idea until I was looking, my, the credit card I had has a whole bunch of deals for booking travel and, 'cause I've been booking a holiday.
(04:03):
I just looked at all the benefits and learned, oh, it's got phone damage insurance.
So did you have a, an inkling or you just searched for it within the terms and conditions and the long list or? I had no idea until I was looking up something else and then I saw it.
So then I just read the details and it was so simple.
I just put in a claim.
I had to submit proof of me paying my phone bill each month.
(04:26):
And today I went and got a quote for getting it repaired from a Apple store.
Okay, I like that.
And so potentially you're gonna save a lot of money from that.
Yeah, they're gonna have it fixed.
And I'm like, amazing because I was just gonna make do with my current situation until the new phone comes out in September.
So I'm thrilled you saved yourself heaps.
That's amazing.
I think it's like a PSA that when you have things like credit cards or other services that have benefits, you should regularly stock take to either say.
(04:55):
Am I still getting value outta these benefits or are there benefits that I could be using that I'm not on? That actually, which was a win for me a week ago, is I just have roadside assist with RACV and I thought, what do, what does a being an RACV member mean? I've been an RACV member since year 12.
Mm-hmm.
(05:15):
Have I done anything with that card? No.
I just pay my yearly fee.
It's not a lot.
But there are so many benefits and I got really good price movie tickets.
Amazing.
So it's just the beginning.
So Claire, should we start on our first topic? This is a big one.
Yes.
We are still having the fallout of the Australian election.
Mm-hmm.
(05:36):
There's still a few seats to be called.
I think Kuong when we're recording.
This is Monday afternoon.
They're finally called it for Monique Ryan.
After it went back and forth, we saw Zoe Daniels unceremoniously.
Yeah.
Lose her seat after declaring victory for it with Tim Wilson getting back up from the liberal party and I think a few other seats are very, ALS are being close to being called as well.
(06:04):
I.
So it's been a few weeks now since election.
Where are we at? The state of everything and the major parties.
It's been a big one.
And today Anthony Albanese did announce his reshuffled cabinet and which is traditionally something that does occur after government is formed.
They either, we'll reconfirm their cabinet or they'll shuffle things around.
(06:26):
Or if it's a new, if it's another party coming into government, they will generally do a big overhaul of their shadow ministry.
And also with new people being elected or potentially not being reelected, we saw Tanya Plibersek move from the environment portfolio into social services.
That is a big one because there is still so much coming out of the end of robo debt.
(06:46):
Though some commentators are saying that it Tanya Plibersek and Anthony Albanese do not get along.
So some people are also seeing it as a deme demotion for Tanya.
Yeah.
A bit more space between them.
We saw Michelle Roland app as the new Attorney general, which is huge.
'cause Mark Fuss was unceremoniously dumped in faction negotiations in the Labor party.
(07:08):
Yeah.
And a few others were also moved around as well.
And it's really interesting to see how this plays out because by all accounts.
It's a pretty settled government.
Anthony Albanese doesn't have a lot of need to do big changes, but he has actually chosen to do some of those changes.
(07:28):
He's also promoted a number of more women, and I suspect that was a slight to the liberal party, to overemphasize the lack of women in leadership and the lack of female representation within the liberal party.
Yeah, and this is the first time there is, it's looking like majority women.
Mm-hmm.
Women in seats.
(07:49):
Exactly.
And a lot of what's to thank for that is the fact that the Labor Party brought in gender quotas 30 years ago, and now we see the benefit of that play out in the Labor Party.
Yeah.
It really was a long-term plan.
Mm-hmm.
I think one thing that I always like to think about is back in the nineties when John Harod was in his era, women used to predominantly vote liberal, and that was because the Labor Party was.
(08:18):
People that were in unions voted labor, and not a lot of women were in unionized sectors, so they had no reason to vote labor.
So the party that women voted for was liberal.
But we have seen such a steady and sharp decline in women liberal voter ship from the 1990s through to 2025.
The Labor Party has really worked on broadening its appeal to women, to families.
(08:45):
And we've really seen that.
And I suppose on that in bridging over to talking about liberal they're seeing a decline there in sort of women that are voting for them.
So what are the moves that we've seen there and for the liberal party what can we anticipate seeing over the next few weeks? It's gonna be a really tough one because there are two main contenders for the leadership.
(09:11):
After a coalition, government fails to win an election, they will do a spill in their leadership position.
So that's written into their bylaws or their constitution.
And what does a spill mean? It means that they'll renominate a new leader and they could reconfirm the previous leader, but typically what it will mean is they'll reelect someone new.
But in the case of Peter Dutton, 'cause he didn't.
(09:31):
Win back his seat.
They have to do a full spill.
The liberals did not win many seats, there's very few candidates that would be in contention for the leadership position.
Susan Lay was the deputy of liberal party and she was naturally.
The person that you would expect to take the reins.
However, Angus Taylor has put his hand up as well, and he's running on a ticket with Jacinta Price who has switched from being in the national.
(10:03):
So she was, she's a country liberal, so she can choose where she likes, which caucus she wants to be a part of.
Yes.
And she's chosen to be a part of the liberal caucus and she has effectively joined the liberal party so that she can be deputy.
Liberal party leader.
And so of that, we've spoken about Angus Taylor, we've spoken about Susan Lay.
(10:25):
Susan's pretty well placed for that job.
This is infuriating Gab.
Yeah, because Susan it's like we are comparing a doctor with a medical student or a plumber with someone who watched a YouTube video.
Angus Taylor does not have the qualifications or the experience to be the liberal party leader.
(10:52):
Susan Lay does.
Yeah, it's chalk and cheese.
Angus Taylor is riding off the back of toxic masculinity and backroom party politics that has caused the liberal party to sink to where they're at.
They are now.
I get to be bold now because the election's done, it's over now.
(11:13):
Exactly.
And I think it's really interesting to see which way it will go.
And I think part of that will be about what direction liberal would like to go in now.
They're having an identity crisis at the moment.
They are.
And it's really gonna be pivotal.
I think this vote is gonna tell us which direction they're going in.
If they vote in Susan Lay, there's two things that will happen.
(11:35):
One is they're saying, Hey.
We need to come back to the wards.
The center, Susan Lay, is more of a moderate liberal.
Yep.
And I suspect her deputy will also need to be moderate as well.
She's facing an uphill battle because she's got a bunch of people in that party that do not want to see us move back towards centrist politics.
They wanna double down.
(11:57):
They wanna follow through with conservative politics.
They think that's where the winning ticket is.
It's the Trumpian element.
It's basically reinstating Trump's style of managing the party.
If they vote Angus Taylor in, I think it'll be.
At least three elections before we may even see a liberal party in contention, if at all.
(12:18):
Based on that, then Susan's up for the job She is, but it is a tough job that she would be entering into.
This is crisis really well.
You think about it, they always seem to get double the amount of seats to form.
Government.
It won't happen in three years.
No.
Anthony Albanese is pretty much guaranteed government in his third term, or a labor government in their third term, provided they don't do something massively dumb to stuff it all up.
(12:46):
And what you need is a party that's gonna double down on supporting Susan Lay to say, all right, we're gonna spend the next three years rebuilding.
We're gonna reclaim some ground at the next election, and then we're gonna put two feet forward for the election that follows, and we're gonna back Susan lay over that next six years, provided she wants to do the job.
(13:07):
I think they're gonna allow Susan Lay to mop up the mess.
To introduce a lot of change to force a number of people into the 2025, and then they get a knifer in the back and put a man in its place.
That's probably what's gonna happen.
And this is that notion of the glass cliff? It's the glass cliff.
Yes.
Which for those listening is essentially that tendency for a woman to be placed into a position of leadership or power at a moment of crisis.
(13:36):
Mm-hmm.
But they're not set up for it.
They're basically given an impossible role and they're needing to perform and overcome so many hurdles.
And then once they're on the other side of it, see you later, they do a vote of no confidence.
They say, we need a directional change.
And suddenly, despite the fact that Susan solved all those problems they've got a man and back in the role.
(13:59):
Gab, what do you think the liberal party needs to do if they are gonna be back in contention for.
Forming government? From my perspective, I think they do need to do a lot to bring women back on that journey with them and gain that trust in that area.
And I think that's definitely been a downfall for them in this last election.
Do you think quotas would help? What about you? The liberal party have always been against quotas because they've said no, we're about, self autonomy.
(14:28):
Freedoms and bringing in quotas would be counterintuitive to us.
But I think they've demonstrated by themselves that they're not capable of self-managing equity without quotas.
And we are two educated woman women.
Would we wanna be part of the liberal party if we are not gonna be represented, heard or respected? Exactly.
I think they do need to do something from, in their eyes is probably a radical move.
(14:53):
But to help gain that trust and at least send that signal that they at least believe that it's important to have representation.
And I think it's equity in representation.
They had a candidate of Kuong Amelia Hamer.
By all accounts, they ran her because she's perfect liberal pedigree.
What does that actually mean? What does that mean? It means that she's, an old liberal family, extreme amount of wealth.
(15:21):
You can't just bring a woman that you like, that you see as you female equivalent and say, that's representation.
It's not Representation is diversity and diversity of experience.
Absolutely.
And I think there's a difference between inspiration and aspiration.
Mm-hmm.
With someone like that, they aren't representative.
(15:41):
No.
And so it seems so far out of reach.
How do you relate to someone like that? It's my biggest sin is that I wasn't born into intergenerational wealth.
What can I do about that? You need someone that understands or at least has some similar experiences that they can draw from to help translate into language that people can really get behind.
(16:02):
But Gab, going back to what's ahead of Susan Lay, there's a couple of reflections that we could probably say where we've seen a woman come off the glass cliff.
Yeah, there is.
And one in particular that I did wanna talk about is Christine Holgate.
Now, that was pre Covid.
We're talking, she went into that position in 2017.
(16:24):
Mm-hmm.
But basically Christine Holgate was a CEO of Blackmores for 10 years before.
She became the CEO of Australia Post and she went into.
Australia post at a time where people probably wouldn't want that position.
The organization was battered, letter volumes were falling and that internal moral and morale and culture at the time was pretty low.
(16:51):
So very difficult position.
A lot of public trust was lost at that time.
And.
As I said, you've got the right woman for the job.
She had this great experience in 10 years at Blackmores.
She was named Telstra's Businesswoman of the Year and CEO of the year.
So she had the skills to really get the job done and really turn things around and she delivered.
(17:15):
She did.
I know, I remember franchisees saying she was the best thing that happened to Australia Post, particularly following some previous leaderships where they gutted.
The infrastructure of Australia Post to make their balance sheet at the time look phenomenal.
She turned things around.
She created the bank post, which was huge in terms of the revenue that it delivered for the organization.
(17:39):
Yes.
And.
Parcel revenues boomed.
Everything was up 30% at the time.
Staff engagement was at an all time high, and they're basically back and better than ever.
And honestly now with retrospect in looking at COVID-19 really prepared them well for that spike in demand when parcel deliveries and everything increased during that time when people weren't able to move around.
(18:04):
And one of the most frustrating things about this is.
She was an exceptional female leader, and she got treated terribly.
She did.
So what happened? She was taken down.
From the purchase of four Cartier watches, which was worth nearly $20,000 in total.
(18:25):
And it was a gift to executives, and essentially they were given as a performance recognition of sealing this landmark deal that they had.
Holgate stated that the purchases were made within her authority and with the knowledge of the then chairman.
However, Australia Post Board later clarified that it had not approved or had been informed of the purchases.
(18:50):
Can I just interject though, gab? Yeah.
We've both worked in corporate and I worked in consulting for many years, and I remember when this happened.
We've discussed it.
$5,000 for a bonus of a very lucrative deal with an exceptional return on investment is peanuts.
Oh, it isn't it? In the context of everything.
It's the cheapest gift.
(19:11):
It, it would be like giving them, for them a 50, a bonus ticket voucher.
It's nothing.
Yes.
When you think about the overtime and hours they would've delivered, if anything like.
I know they said at the time it didn't pass sniff pub test, but actually it was a very financially responsible way of recognizing very good work for the benefit of Australia Post.
(19:40):
You would think that.
However, it's crazy to think about it now, but the Prime Minister outed her at the time.
Schmo old mate and.
Stating that he was appalled and called it out for an investigation.
So Christine was asked to essentially stand aside during that period.
(20:01):
I remember you said something like, if she doesn't like it, she can go.
Or if she doesn't step aside, she can go like he, yeah.
He basically berated her and treated her appallingly.
Appallingly and without much to stand on at that point as well.
It was pre investigation.
I do believe though, at the time Scott Morrison was deflecting for some other issues that were raising attention and was particularly the purchasing of land around Sydney Airport.
(20:29):
So this allowed him the opportunity to direct attention, unfortunately, onto a woman.
Yes.
And after that, an independent review was done by law firm Maddox, and it found no evidence or fraud or corruption, but noted that there was no policy supporting such gifts to executives.
(20:51):
But despite this, Christine resigned citing that the issue had become a significant distraction, and she did actually receive compensation for this.
She received a million dollar termination payout as.
Effectively vindication for the way she was treated.
It was a termination payment that she reached with Australia Post.
(21:12):
Do we think that's compensation enough for what she went through? She has gone on to bigger and better things and she's radically turned around.
She's at, is it Toll now? Christine Holgate? Yes.
But Toll's renamed itself has it? Yes, it's Toll group, but they actually rebranded in 2021, and so now they're called Team Global Express.
(21:35):
But yes, she heads up them.
I think this was the ultimate example of a woman being pushed off the Glass cliff because she.
Came in at a point where Australia Post had a day of reckoning.
She turned it around.
She found new opportunities for them to innovate.
Those innovations had a significant improvement to their bottom line.
(21:58):
The moment they had the opportunity to do it, they knifed her and then they put a man in her place.
Exactly, and that man was Paul Graham.
And he's been recognized for a lot essentially steering that way through that covid time when really a lot of the stuff that was had already been done by Christie absolutely.
(22:23):
Sort of, jumped in at a time where everything has improved and worked out and they moved through that.
And I guess it's a pattern of where women are only really tapped for those leadership roles when everything's.
On fire take Theresa May after Brexit or Mary Barra at GM after that Deadly ignition scandal.
Yes.
And when they succeed, the credit doesn't sick, but when they falter, it's like snap of the fingers.
(22:50):
They're done.
They're at, there're at full blame.
Why is it that women take on these roles knowing what they're up against? Is it like the fixer mentality? Is it a stereotype They're the ones that put their hand up and say, yeah, I can fix this mess.
Maybe it's that hope that things would change or that maybe I treated opportunity treated differently, or this is my opportunity in the door.
I can build something and I can stick.
(23:12):
Yeah.
But I think part of that is, is it's systemic and research shows actually that women are 45% more likely to be appointed as a senior manager during a crisis.
But the support, all of that, the cultural buy-in, isn't there? I just don't think it's fair to promote someone and put someone in a position if the infrastructure is not there or they're not set up for success.
(23:38):
It's just it's, that's corporate, but, it's not a great experience for that human being, and particularly for Kristen, Christine Holgate.
I can only imagine how traumatic that whole experience was for her a hundred percent.
Exactly and I think that's gonna be the question.
Now, what I wanna play for you, Claire, is one of the quotes from Christine during her Senate testimony.
(24:03):
So I'll just play this for you now, Claire.
I do not want what's happened to me to happen to any individual ever again in any workplace.
I was humiliated by our prime minister for committing no offense, and then bullied by my chairman.
I have done no wrong so I'll leave it with that.
(24:27):
But looping back now to Susan Lay as women, we should be supporting Susan Lay.
But can I support a party that I fundamentally don't agree with? And now I've got this conflict, which is I wanna support a woman in a leadership position.
I wanna see another female prime minister.
It seems that pathway would be Susan Lay, but I fundamentally don't agree with the behaviors of numerous members of the party, and they're predominantly men.
(24:54):
Where do I reconcile for that? Claire, we've got some big news that's happened in the last few days, and that is we've got a new Pope.
We do, and it's Cardinal Robert Francis Privos, but now he is known as.
Pope Leo the 14th.
I actually had to be like, wait, how do I pronounce this? Okay.
Like X is ten one before V is four.
(25:17):
Okay.
14.
I had to rethink about my Roman numerals because other than primary school, when do you actually use Roman numerals? No, exactly right.
I actually did a bit of a Google 'cause I was like, why? Why are they changing the names? What's the story behind that? And actually.
Fun fact, it's a symbol of a new mission.
Oh.
So the name marks a start of this new spiritual chapter, and usually it's aligned with the way that they want to go about their work really.
(25:46):
It's been a tradition since.
500 and fif 33 ad.
There you go.
Do you know what's a fun fact about the conclave? Because I've been getting served lots of fun facts about conclave now that they've been, we're getting a new pop, we've got a new Pope, and that is when they had their very first conclave.
It was because it took them years to pick out a new pope and it was causing so much chaos that the people of the Vatican locked them in and said, you're not coming out until you pick a pope.
(26:15):
And they went, you're kidding.
Yeah.
And they're like, okay, that actually worked quite well.
Let's do it again.
And that's what they've done since.
I love it.
I actually I googled that as well because I was wondering, they get locked in there and I was like, do they eat, do they get fed? Apparently they do get fed not in that room, but they get fed in a building across the hall, and they go between those two buildings.
(26:38):
But no phones allowed.
If you are under the age of 80, you're in.
However, if you're 80 and above, sorry, but don't get a vote.
You are not gonna get a vote and you don't get to participate in there.
However do you think that's because they're like, oh, what are we gonna do with all these people that can't walk on frames and that sort of thing? So like the eighties, like if you're under 80, you can like self-sufficient in the conclave where we're all locked in together.
(27:01):
Yeah, but also there'll be there.
There will be a proper reason for it.
I'm just making this chapel.
It's big, but it's not that big.
No.
They got it and I would assume that a lot of them are over the age of eighties, so you've gotta somehow cap the numbers.
I did love all the tiktoks though, of watching like the nuns running to.
St.
Peter's Square to see the new Pope walk onto the balcony.
(27:22):
That was just so gorgeous and so pre precious.
It's very sweet.
I know.
'cause you think it's like their first time living and they get to see this, and to them this is their new leader and the one who's gonna provide them with spiritual inspiration to them.
It's so wonderful.
Yeah, and I was really curious about what the reaction would be because he's the first American born pope in history.
(27:43):
And Trump was just like he had something to thank for.
Trump said he'd be make a great pope despite the fact he's not Catholic.
Yeah.
Because he is American.
So yeah, we'll see what happens.
Now we've got new Pope Leo the 14th.
Mm-hmm.
Welcome.
He also is, whilst not as progressive as Pope Francis, he is going to extend a lot of the good work that Pope Francis did, particularly when it came to peace.
(28:09):
Supporting global reach across the world as well as in supporting more inclusivity and making sure the church is an inclusive and welcoming environment.
Yes.
So while he and that's the thing, he's not a crazy conservative he is more on the moderate side.
So I do think we'll see that great work that Francis started continue, which, we need that probably happening in the world given everything else going on at the moment.
(28:34):
And there has been some positive global reaction.
So we've heard from Trump but also the Peruvian president as well, because he does have that missionary background in Exactly, exactly.
I did enjoy though someone dug up some tweets from the new Pope and a lot of it was him making fun of JD Vance.
Oh really? Are you saying that the Pope is a fan of Twitter and he's posting on Twitter? Yes.
(29:02):
So we have found two tweets that one the new Pope Pop Leo said, which is.
JD Vance is wrong.
Jesus doesn't ask us to rank our love for others, and he also reposted an op-ed in response to the suffering of migrants, summarily deported by the Trump administration.
(29:24):
Do you not see the suffering? Is your conscience not disturbed? Wow.
And this is like the second popal snub of JD Vance.
'cause we spoke about when JD Vance was so excited to meet the Pope and the Pope gave him a lecture on compassion and now the second Pope has just outwardly attacked him.
I love this energy and real logistical question here, is it similar to, when people get married and they reserve like a handle? Like how long had he reserved Pope Leo as a handle? No, he hadn't reserved the Pope.
(29:55):
It was his own.
No, it was his own cardinal social media.
Okay.
So he did, I it was, they were dug out from before he was elected.
Yes.
But now does he's, he uses the Pope account.
He hasn't sent that under the Pope.
They would just dug out after he was elected for people to say, oof.
Funny.
If he'll have a Pope now, he will.
He will.
So the Pope does have his own social media handles, very similar to how POTUS has theirs and the royal family also have theirs.
(30:19):
I love these.
It's another world.
I know, and it just reminds me of that saying there is no love, but like Christian hatred.
Oh, yes.
And I think it really brings JD Vance under point to say, you say you're a Catholic, but you don't envision Catholic values, and that is the Catholic church really positioning them away from the way he's behaving.
(30:41):
Absolutely.
I think it's honestly as clear as it could be really.
A quick legal note before we dive in.
Erin Patterson's trial is still underway in Victoria.
She has pleaded not guilty and remains presumed innocent.
We're only summarizing evidence heard in open court and reputable news.
This is commentary, not news, facts or verdict calling.
(31:03):
If you're a juror, witness or otherwise involved in the case, please stop listening now and return after the trial ends.
So that's the time we've been waiting for.
It's that weekly update.
It's the true crime case that has been gripping Australia.
Three people have been have died basically from a family lunch.
And there's a woman that's been accused of it, and that is Erin Patterson.
(31:27):
The courtroom drama is unraveling, like honestly a thriller.
It feels like we are learning more each day, and it's just really fascinating and the drama.
It all is really coming to light now.
So Claire, what is the update? Should we start with day one? Yes.
(31:47):
So I'll do a roundup of where we're at with the trial because a lot has happened and I can't even tell you Gab, the last time we had a murder trial where you're getting action by action updates on live feeds.
There is hundreds of journalists that are focused on this murder trial, but we have summarized it and.
(32:10):
We spoke about last week, the opening statements where we learned a series of information such as that Erin was served.
So the beef Wellington was served by Erin on different crockery.
We learned that Erin acknowledged that she had forage for mushrooms.
We learned that Erin had claimed that she had cancer when she's been agreed that she did not, and we also learned that Erin.
(32:37):
Position is that this was a horrible accident.
So that's a lot.
And so much has happened since then.
We've started hearing from witnesses and really different perspectives of the lead up and the day and sort of those days beyond that lunch day a really.
(32:58):
Coming to life now? Yes, absolutely.
So last week we heard from Simon Patterson.
He is Erin's estranged husband.
We learned that he was invited to the lunch, but he did not attend, and Erin was quite disappointed for that.
We learned about the tumultuous relationship, that was their partnership.
(33:19):
And from that they had two children's By all accounts, it sounded like a relationship where they just kept coming together, breaking apart, and they eventually realized they were better apart.
We learned that they co-parented really well until Erin's Pat ex-partner Simon, filed his tax return as separated.
And that really upset Erin.
(33:39):
Yes, and I don't think up until that point they had a really solid routine is what we heard that.
Most of during the week that the kids would be with Erin at her place.
And then most of the week, on the Friday they would go to their dad's and then they'd go home after school back to their moms on the Mondays.
So it was a bit of a ritual that they were in up until that point.
(34:00):
Yeah, and it has been quite interesting 'cause Simon spoke about how he wished that he got the kids more.
He wanted the kids more interactions with the kids.
But then when we actually heard from the kids said, well, we didn't really like gonna dad because it was really boring.
He did nothing with us.
He just played video games.
Whereas we like being with mom because mom always had something for us to do.
Yeah.
And I think that's what we heard a lot is about and even from the people that Erin was on Facebook groups with about, whilst they hadn't really met, but they would hear about all the stuff that she would do with the kids, that it sounded like she was quite an active parent.
(34:34):
She was a very active parent.
So day four we concluded the cross-examination of Simon.
And Simon did say that Erin was someone with a fear of hospitals.
She had quite a bit of an anxiety and some other real health issues.
And Simon also said that she suffered with postnatal depression and was always worried about his, her health.
(34:55):
And he also acknowledged that Erin never really.
Openly fought with his parents.
Whilst that time it could be awkward.
Aaron got along well with his parents and I think that was one of the key things that we had from when the prosecution opened, is that there was no motive.
So we're still at this point saying we don't really understand.
We, I wouldn't say there's been like a smoking gun as to, no motive from these interactions so far.
(35:20):
Especially, particularly the in-laws and.
The pastor and his wife, which are the, I think it's the auntie and uncle of Simon, isn't it? Exactly, yes.
So Ian Wilkinson, who we heard on for the fifth day of the trial, he was the sole survivor of the mushroom attack, and he confirmed that Erin invited them for lunch out of the blue because she wanted to have an adult conversation.
(35:47):
And they were quite excited because they had not been invited to lunch with Erin before.
So they're like, oh, this is different.
This is novel.
Yeah, we'd love to go.
They, he commented that when the lunch was served, Erin ate off a different orangy plate and they had separate plates that were gray during the meal.
They joked about the husband's finishing the wive's meal.
Don Patterson ate more than one portion.
(36:09):
He ate the rest of his wive's meal.
Erin faked her cancer diagnosis during dessert, and they prayed.
So Erin told them that she had ovarian cancer and how should she talk to the kids? And they said, okay, this is why we're here.
It was very humanizing.
Ian did not make any accusations about Aaron.
He was calm, he was honest.
He had a recollection that painted a sort of, quite a factual about what occurred.
(36:35):
He didn't really make any sort of, I believe it was this, it was more just, yeah, I was at the lunch, was nice to be there.
It was a lovely meal.
And then we went home that night and we were quite unwell.
Another thing that he did talk about is his wife, Gail.
Was particularly interested in the pantry.
Yes.
And there was a part of the lunch where Gail was asking Erin about her pantry, and she had gone in there.
(37:03):
And was looking in the pantry, and he had called Ian a number of times to come and check out the pantry.
However, he did note that Erin, his perception was that Erin was a little bit stressed about them going into the pantry, so he didn't go in and have a look.
I can relate my pantry's a mess at all times.
There's so much food in there.
(37:24):
It's it's like behind the curtain, isn't it? It's behind the curtains.
Yeah.
Like the pantry's just where I kind of put it all in and it's not a Instagram, Google pantry at all.
Yeah.
So that was interesting.
We also heard from you mentioned the kids.
But the son who is a teenager and probably provided.
A lot more detailed insight than his younger sister.
(37:47):
Erin was very upset when she saw them speaking.
So for the son, they played the video that was recorded when he was originally interviewed and they actually had the daughter on the stand.
And part of the.
Son's testimony was that he was there during the lunch period.
He had a friend over, they spent some time downstairs and they had headphones on most of that time.
(38:12):
But he does recall collecting the plates on the table and putting them in the sink.
Yes, he did.
He also commented that night Aaron served the meal leftovers to them, and he said it was delicious.
He doesn't remember eating pastry, but he remembers eating the meat, the mashed potato, and the green beans.
He also recalled that night and the day after that incident and the promise of going to a flight lesson.
(38:39):
Which they got most of the way there from what I understand.
And then they had to turn around and head back home.
Mm-hmm.
So that was the day after the lunch? Yes.
And that was quite telling because Erin's discussions with the investigators was that, she had to stop constantly go to the bathroom and her son was like, yeah, we drove all the way to the airfield.
(39:01):
Then we realized the flight wasn't gonna happen so we got something to eat.
Mum didn't eat.
She said she was feeling unwell, but she had a coffee.
And it wasn't intuitive of someone who had severe diarrhea like she said she had.
Yes.
So that, I think that was interesting.
And when they had.
Medical testimony about the symptoms.
(39:22):
Mm-hmm.
And what could cause the symptoms? It was said that while it could be caused by the poisoning from the mushrooms, those symptoms could also be caused through stress and anxiety.
Yes.
So Erin did present to the hospital and the hospital staff were very concerned about her.
She tried to leave after.
(39:42):
Arriving at the hospital and they immediately called and said, if you don't return back, we're gonna call the police.
They requested that she bring her children to the hospital and she said she didn't want to, she didn't wanna frighten the children, and they said we, if you don't, you know there'll be consequences.
I think the words they said were, it's better if your children to be alive and frightened than dead.
So the children were brought to Dan Long Hospital.
(40:03):
Erin was also kept overnight for observations, and they found no concern to the health of Erin and the children.
Yes.
And if we go back to, because the reason why the children were tested is because they had leftovers.
They ate the leftovers.
One thing I found interesting was when asked how they knew they were leftovers of the lunch both children said it was because the mom had told them it was leftovers.
(40:32):
We're left with that.
Really? Yes.
One thing I will call out though is that when the police asked for Erin's assistance to find the leftovers of the meal, she did say, yes, you can find the leftovers in a brown paper bag in the rubbish bin at my house.
And that allowed the police to go and collect those and bring them back to the hospital for observation testing.
(40:53):
Yeah, they found it straight away.
They did.
So Erin was very quick to provide that information to them on request.
Absolutely.
We also heard from a number of doctors and nurses that were at the hospital and also those that were treating the other victims, and they spoke about how quickly they deteriorated and the pain and suffering they went through.
(41:15):
As well as them investigating their health and clarifying with mushroom experts that it was death cap mushrooms.
And part of that experience for them is we know that.
They were airlifted to the hospital, to the second hospital, weren't they? And I think, yes, Ian was on that first flight.
(41:36):
Yes.
Yes.
So they were airlifted from Borough Hospital, which is tiny.
I've actually been there.
Oh, you have? Yeah.
Yeah.
'cause I remember I grew up in Corum.
Of course.
Yep.
So I've been there is tiny, very limited.
And at those hospitals they often only have one doctor and it's just way above their capabilities.
So was airlifted to, I think it was Monash in the end.
And that's where unfortunately, the other three did pass away, and Ian was able to receive the treatment that saved his life.
(42:03):
And so this is now the second week.
What can we expect? Do we know what is on the agenda this week in court? So today they didn't have court.
It was a non evidence stay for the jury.
I believe we'll be hearing from more medical experts, scientists as well as.
Technology and other area elements of the prosecution's case.
(42:26):
Our justice system works very different to what you see on TV if the evidence is agreed.
So that's evidence where the defense doesn't really have any questions about it.
They accept that's, fine to have they present that to the jury as part of the prosecution's case.
It's presented very factually and in some instances where there's no disputed evidence, they might allow statements just to be read and like the case of the sun, where they just allowed his video evidence to be played.
(42:54):
That's so fascinating.
Yes.
So then when the defense presents their case, it's not, okay, the prosecution took three weeks.
The defense will take three weeks.
The defense is only then presenting additional delta that helps them present their case.
Interesting.
So how long until we could expect to hear from the defense? I would say it's a probably a couple more weeks.
(43:15):
Yeah.
And then it will depend on how much information the defense wants to put forward.
And then they'll go to final closing, which is a summary of everything that's been presented in there into interpretation of it.
And then the judge will summarize their understanding of the case and then provide instructions to the jury to begin their deliberations.
I would say we're probably a good.
(43:38):
Three or four weeks away before we reach a position where jury will begin deliberations, there's so much more that's going to come out of it.
I know, I already feel like there's been so much information and really just starting to piece together different perspectives and the story coming to life and I, yeah I am fascinated to see what will happen over the coming weeks, what more will come out and whether the painted picture will become clearer.
(44:04):
Absolutely, and we'll be back next week for week three of Death Cap Diaries.
Oh, I love the name so much.
That's it for this week's episode of Spin Cycle from Susan Lay and the liberal leadership fallout to Christine Colgate's, legacy Erin Patterson's Mushroom Courtroom Theater and the election of a brand new Pope.
(44:26):
If you like the episode, send it to a mate.
Leave us a review, or just yell your thoughts into the group chat.
We'll be back next week with more headlines and the spin behind the stories.
We need to come up with a better segment for Barron Patterson.
Trial updates.
We've been brainstorming this last week.
What do you got for me? Oh, I wanted mushroom round up.
And you said it was terrible.
I did.
What about death Cap diaries? Oh, Claire, I think you're onto something.
I think that's gotta be better than Fungi Under fire or Fungi Forensics.
(00:25):
What about grief Wellington? Why are you so good at this? I think I've got a lot of time to think about mushroom puns when I'm spending so much time.
So Turkey hits the fan.
Coming up this week on spin cycle, we're unpacking the election fallout and asking is the liberal party setting.
Susan, lay up for a glass cliff moment to help us answer this.
(00:48):
We're reflecting on the Kristin Holgate saga as a case study in what happens when women are brought in to clean up a mess and then get pushed out.
Plus we've got more context in courtroom drama from the Erin Patterson mushroom trial.
And yes, we have a brand new Pope White smoke has risen.
Let's get into it.
(01:19):
Welcome to Spin Cycle, where we dig into the stories shaping the world and take a closer look at the patterns, power plays.
And yes, the biases hiding in plain sight where Gab and Claire, two friends with MBAs, A lot of opinions and a healthy amount of skepticism.
We're here to help you think twice and maybe have a few laughs.
Let's get spinning.
(01:40):
Gab.
What's top of mind for you this week? Something that's really fresh in my mind and I really feel like I'm still recovering, is driving around yesterday for Mother's Day.
It's like driving at Christmas.
Honestly, the traffic reminds me of Christmas Day, when you're driving in the morning.
Everyone's trying to get somewhere for lunch and then you start seeing the same traffic just before the dinner time.
(02:03):
Mm-hmm.
And everyone is stuck in back to back on the freeway, everything.
I honestly was in the car for so long yesterday I had to go from the west all the way to Bayside.
I was an hour late for lunch.
It was from your, was it your mom's lunch as well? It was mom's lunch.
Mama banana wrapped up with flowers.
Not cope well with that.
No.
(02:23):
No, she was fine.
Look, she was very reasonable.
And yeah, so the lunch was lovely once I arrived, but I could not believe it stuck at every light I was raging.
And when I got home I had a little bit of a teary because I was just like, wow, what a day.
Yeah.
Okay.
That sounds really stressful.
How was your Mother's Day? So I had a very different Mother's Day because my mom and dad have jetted off to Europe for the start of Euro summer, I guess so I went to Costco.
(02:53):
Oh, Claire, that's amazing.
It was quite good.
I bought like a huge jar of Meredith skirt cheese, a huge block of Parmesan cheese.
What else did I get? I got new washing detergent, I got six liters and it's gonna last forever.
You know that you're in your thirties, like we get excited about this stuff.
Even Meredith Goat cheese.
I love it.
(03:13):
It is the best.
Oh, I feel like you would know I'm in significant wealth when I've got six jars of that cheese in my fridge.
Absolutely.
And what's top of mind for you this week, Claire? I had a huge win this week and I am so thrilled about it.
What is it? I accidentally smashed the lens on my camera and I'm showing gab now.
(03:35):
It's broken.
I've got like a little cover on it.
And what is it? Is this like a stick on? It's a stick on thing.
'cause I've actually smashed the lens.
I didn't even know you could buy that.
Yeah, I got on Amazon because it was broken and one thing I did not realize is my credit card has phone damage insurance.
What? Yes.
I had no idea until I was looking, my, the credit card I had has a whole bunch of deals for booking travel and, 'cause I've been booking a holiday.
(04:03):
I just looked at all the benefits and learned, oh, it's got phone damage insurance.
So did you have a, an inkling or you just searched for it within the terms and conditions and the long list or? I had no idea until I was looking up something else and then I saw it.
So then I just read the details and it was so simple.
I just put in a claim.
I had to submit proof of me paying my phone bill each month.
(04:26):
And today I went and got a quote for getting it repaired from a Apple store.
Okay, I like that.
And so potentially you're gonna save a lot of money from that.
Yeah, they're gonna have it fixed.
And I'm like, amazing because I was just gonna make do with my current situation until the new phone comes out in September.
So I'm thrilled you saved yourself heaps.
That's amazing.
I think it's like a PSA that when you have things like credit cards or other services that have benefits, you should regularly stock take to either say.
(04:55):
Am I still getting value outta these benefits or are there benefits that I could be using that I'm not on? That actually, which was a win for me a week ago, is I just have roadside assist with RACV and I thought, what do, what does a being an RACV member mean? I've been an RACV member since year 12.
Mm-hmm.
(05:15):
Have I done anything with that card? No.
I just pay my yearly fee.
It's not a lot.
But there are so many benefits and I got really good price movie tickets.
Amazing.
So it's just the beginning.
So Claire, should we start on our first topic? This is a big one.
Yes.
We are still having the fallout of the Australian election.
Mm-hmm.
(05:36):
There's still a few seats to be called.
I think Kuong when we're recording.
This is Monday afternoon.
They're finally called it for Monique Ryan.
After it went back and forth, we saw Zoe Daniels unceremoniously.
Yeah.
Lose her seat after declaring victory for it with Tim Wilson getting back up from the liberal party and I think a few other seats are very, ALS are being close to being called as well.
(06:04):
I.
So it's been a few weeks now since election.
Where are we at? The state of everything and the major parties.
It's been a big one.
And today Anthony Albanese did announce his reshuffled cabinet and which is traditionally something that does occur after government is formed.
They either, we'll reconfirm their cabinet or they'll shuffle things around.
(06:26):
Or if it's a new, if it's another party coming into government, they will generally do a big overhaul of their shadow ministry.
And also with new people being elected or potentially not being reelected, we saw Tanya Plibersek move from the environment portfolio into social services.
That is a big one because there is still so much coming out of the end of robo debt.
(06:46):
Though some commentators are saying that it Tanya Plibersek and Anthony Albanese do not get along.
So some people are also seeing it as a deme demotion for Tanya.
Yeah.
A bit more space between them.
We saw Michelle Roland app as the new Attorney general, which is huge.
'cause Mark Fuss was unceremoniously dumped in faction negotiations in the Labor party.
(07:08):
Yeah.
And a few others were also moved around as well.
And it's really interesting to see how this plays out because by all accounts.
It's a pretty settled government.
Anthony Albanese doesn't have a lot of need to do big changes, but he has actually chosen to do some of those changes.
(07:28):
He's also promoted a number of more women, and I suspect that was a slight to the liberal party, to overemphasize the lack of women in leadership and the lack of female representation within the liberal party.
Yeah, and this is the first time there is, it's looking like majority women.
Mm-hmm.
Women in seats.
(07:49):
Exactly.
And a lot of what's to thank for that is the fact that the Labor Party brought in gender quotas 30 years ago, and now we see the benefit of that play out in the Labor Party.
Yeah.
It really was a long-term plan.
Mm-hmm.
I think one thing that I always like to think about is back in the nineties when John Harod was in his era, women used to predominantly vote liberal, and that was because the Labor Party was.
(08:18):
People that were in unions voted labor, and not a lot of women were in unionized sectors, so they had no reason to vote labor.
So the party that women voted for was liberal.
But we have seen such a steady and sharp decline in women liberal voter ship from the 1990s through to 2025.
The Labor Party has really worked on broadening its appeal to women, to families.
(08:45):
And we've really seen that.
And I suppose on that in bridging over to talking about liberal they're seeing a decline there in sort of women that are voting for them.
So what are the moves that we've seen there and for the liberal party what can we anticipate seeing over the next few weeks? It's gonna be a really tough one because there are two main contenders for the leadership.
(09:11):
After a coalition, government fails to win an election, they will do a spill in their leadership position.
So that's written into their bylaws or their constitution.
And what does a spill mean? It means that they'll renominate a new leader and they could reconfirm the previous leader, but typically what it will mean is they'll reelect someone new.
But in the case of Peter Dutton, 'cause he didn't.
(09:31):
Win back his seat.
They have to do a full spill.
The liberals did not win many seats, there's very few candidates that would be in contention for the leadership position.
Susan Lay was the deputy of liberal party and she was naturally.
The person that you would expect to take the reins.
However, Angus Taylor has put his hand up as well, and he's running on a ticket with Jacinta Price who has switched from being in the national.
(10:03):
So she was, she's a country liberal, so she can choose where she likes, which caucus she wants to be a part of.
Yes.
And she's chosen to be a part of the liberal caucus and she has effectively joined the liberal party so that she can be deputy.
Liberal party leader.
And so of that, we've spoken about Angus Taylor, we've spoken about Susan Lay.
(10:25):
Susan's pretty well placed for that job.
This is infuriating Gab.
Yeah, because Susan it's like we are comparing a doctor with a medical student or a plumber with someone who watched a YouTube video.
Angus Taylor does not have the qualifications or the experience to be the liberal party leader.
(10:52):
Susan Lay does.
Yeah, it's chalk and cheese.
Angus Taylor is riding off the back of toxic masculinity and backroom party politics that has caused the liberal party to sink to where they're at.
They are now.
I get to be bold now because the election's done, it's over now.
(11:13):
Exactly.
And I think it's really interesting to see which way it will go.
And I think part of that will be about what direction liberal would like to go in now.
They're having an identity crisis at the moment.
They are.
And it's really gonna be pivotal.
I think this vote is gonna tell us which direction they're going in.
If they vote in Susan Lay, there's two things that will happen.
(11:35):
One is they're saying, Hey.
We need to come back to the wards.
The center, Susan Lay, is more of a moderate liberal.
Yep.
And I suspect her deputy will also need to be moderate as well.
She's facing an uphill battle because she's got a bunch of people in that party that do not want to see us move back towards centrist politics.
They wanna double down.
(11:57):
They wanna follow through with conservative politics.
They think that's where the winning ticket is.
It's the Trumpian element.
It's basically reinstating Trump's style of managing the party.
If they vote Angus Taylor in, I think it'll be.
At least three elections before we may even see a liberal party in contention, if at all.
(12:18):
Based on that, then Susan's up for the job She is, but it is a tough job that she would be entering into.
This is crisis really well.
You think about it, they always seem to get double the amount of seats to form.
Government.
It won't happen in three years.
No.
Anthony Albanese is pretty much guaranteed government in his third term, or a labor government in their third term, provided they don't do something massively dumb to stuff it all up.
(12:46):
And what you need is a party that's gonna double down on supporting Susan Lay to say, all right, we're gonna spend the next three years rebuilding.
We're gonna reclaim some ground at the next election, and then we're gonna put two feet forward for the election that follows, and we're gonna back Susan lay over that next six years, provided she wants to do the job.
(13:07):
I think they're gonna allow Susan Lay to mop up the mess.
To introduce a lot of change to force a number of people into the 2025, and then they get a knifer in the back and put a man in its place.
That's probably what's gonna happen.
And this is that notion of the glass cliff? It's the glass cliff.
Yes.
Which for those listening is essentially that tendency for a woman to be placed into a position of leadership or power at a moment of crisis.
(13:36):
Mm-hmm.
But they're not set up for it.
They're basically given an impossible role and they're needing to perform and overcome so many hurdles.
And then once they're on the other side of it, see you later, they do a vote of no confidence.
They say, we need a directional change.
And suddenly, despite the fact that Susan solved all those problems they've got a man and back in the role.
(13:59):
Gab, what do you think the liberal party needs to do if they are gonna be back in contention for.
Forming government? From my perspective, I think they do need to do a lot to bring women back on that journey with them and gain that trust in that area.
And I think that's definitely been a downfall for them in this last election.
Do you think quotas would help? What about you? The liberal party have always been against quotas because they've said no, we're about, self autonomy.
(14:28):
Freedoms and bringing in quotas would be counterintuitive to us.
But I think they've demonstrated by themselves that they're not capable of self-managing equity without quotas.
And we are two educated woman women.
Would we wanna be part of the liberal party if we are not gonna be represented, heard or respected? Exactly.
I think they do need to do something from, in their eyes is probably a radical move.
(14:53):
But to help gain that trust and at least send that signal that they at least believe that it's important to have representation.
And I think it's equity in representation.
They had a candidate of Kuong Amelia Hamer.
By all accounts, they ran her because she's perfect liberal pedigree.
What does that actually mean? What does that mean? It means that she's, an old liberal family, extreme amount of wealth.
(15:21):
You can't just bring a woman that you like, that you see as you female equivalent and say, that's representation.
It's not Representation is diversity and diversity of experience.
Absolutely.
And I think there's a difference between inspiration and aspiration.
Mm-hmm.
With someone like that, they aren't representative.
(15:41):
No.
And so it seems so far out of reach.
How do you relate to someone like that? It's my biggest sin is that I wasn't born into intergenerational wealth.
What can I do about that? You need someone that understands or at least has some similar experiences that they can draw from to help translate into language that people can really get behind.
(16:02):
But Gab, going back to what's ahead of Susan Lay, there's a couple of reflections that we could probably say where we've seen a woman come off the glass cliff.
Yeah, there is.
And one in particular that I did wanna talk about is Christine Holgate.
Now, that was pre Covid.
We're talking, she went into that position in 2017.
(16:24):
Mm-hmm.
But basically Christine Holgate was a CEO of Blackmores for 10 years before.
She became the CEO of Australia Post and she went into.
Australia post at a time where people probably wouldn't want that position.
The organization was battered, letter volumes were falling and that internal moral and morale and culture at the time was pretty low.
(16:51):
So very difficult position.
A lot of public trust was lost at that time.
And.
As I said, you've got the right woman for the job.
She had this great experience in 10 years at Blackmores.
She was named Telstra's Businesswoman of the Year and CEO of the year.
So she had the skills to really get the job done and really turn things around and she delivered.
(17:15):
She did.
I know, I remember franchisees saying she was the best thing that happened to Australia Post, particularly following some previous leaderships where they gutted.
The infrastructure of Australia Post to make their balance sheet at the time look phenomenal.
She turned things around.
She created the bank post, which was huge in terms of the revenue that it delivered for the organization.
(17:39):
Yes.
And.
Parcel revenues boomed.
Everything was up 30% at the time.
Staff engagement was at an all time high, and they're basically back and better than ever.
And honestly now with retrospect in looking at COVID-19 really prepared them well for that spike in demand when parcel deliveries and everything increased during that time when people weren't able to move around.
(18:04):
And one of the most frustrating things about this is.
She was an exceptional female leader, and she got treated terribly.
She did.
So what happened? She was taken down.
From the purchase of four Cartier watches, which was worth nearly $20,000 in total.
(18:25):
And it was a gift to executives, and essentially they were given as a performance recognition of sealing this landmark deal that they had.
Holgate stated that the purchases were made within her authority and with the knowledge of the then chairman.
However, Australia Post Board later clarified that it had not approved or had been informed of the purchases.
(18:50):
Can I just interject though, gab? Yeah.
We've both worked in corporate and I worked in consulting for many years, and I remember when this happened.
We've discussed it.
$5,000 for a bonus of a very lucrative deal with an exceptional return on investment is peanuts.
Oh, it isn't it? In the context of everything.
It's the cheapest gift.
(19:11):
It, it would be like giving them, for them a 50, a bonus ticket voucher.
It's nothing.
Yes.
When you think about the overtime and hours they would've delivered, if anything like.
I know they said at the time it didn't pass sniff pub test, but actually it was a very financially responsible way of recognizing very good work for the benefit of Australia Post.
(19:40):
You would think that.
However, it's crazy to think about it now, but the Prime Minister outed her at the time.
Schmo old mate and.
Stating that he was appalled and called it out for an investigation.
So Christine was asked to essentially stand aside during that period.
(20:01):
I remember you said something like, if she doesn't like it, she can go.
Or if she doesn't step aside, she can go like he, yeah.
He basically berated her and treated her appallingly.
Appallingly and without much to stand on at that point as well.
It was pre investigation.
I do believe though, at the time Scott Morrison was deflecting for some other issues that were raising attention and was particularly the purchasing of land around Sydney Airport.
(20:29):
So this allowed him the opportunity to direct attention, unfortunately, onto a woman.
Yes.
And after that, an independent review was done by law firm Maddox, and it found no evidence or fraud or corruption, but noted that there was no policy supporting such gifts to executives.
(20:51):
But despite this, Christine resigned citing that the issue had become a significant distraction, and she did actually receive compensation for this.
She received a million dollar termination payout as.
Effectively vindication for the way she was treated.
It was a termination payment that she reached with Australia Post.
(21:12):
Do we think that's compensation enough for what she went through? She has gone on to bigger and better things and she's radically turned around.
She's at, is it Toll now? Christine Holgate? Yes.
But Toll's renamed itself has it? Yes, it's Toll group, but they actually rebranded in 2021, and so now they're called Team Global Express.
(21:35):
But yes, she heads up them.
I think this was the ultimate example of a woman being pushed off the Glass cliff because she.
Came in at a point where Australia Post had a day of reckoning.
She turned it around.
She found new opportunities for them to innovate.
Those innovations had a significant improvement to their bottom line.
(21:58):
The moment they had the opportunity to do it, they knifed her and then they put a man in her place.
Exactly, and that man was Paul Graham.
And he's been recognized for a lot essentially steering that way through that covid time when really a lot of the stuff that was had already been done by Christie absolutely.
(22:23):
Sort of, jumped in at a time where everything has improved and worked out and they moved through that.
And I guess it's a pattern of where women are only really tapped for those leadership roles when everything's.
On fire take Theresa May after Brexit or Mary Barra at GM after that Deadly ignition scandal.
Yes.
And when they succeed, the credit doesn't sick, but when they falter, it's like snap of the fingers.
(22:50):
They're done.
They're at, there're at full blame.
Why is it that women take on these roles knowing what they're up against? Is it like the fixer mentality? Is it a stereotype They're the ones that put their hand up and say, yeah, I can fix this mess.
Maybe it's that hope that things would change or that maybe I treated opportunity treated differently, or this is my opportunity in the door.
I can build something and I can stick.
(23:12):
Yeah.
But I think part of that is, is it's systemic and research shows actually that women are 45% more likely to be appointed as a senior manager during a crisis.
But the support, all of that, the cultural buy-in, isn't there? I just don't think it's fair to promote someone and put someone in a position if the infrastructure is not there or they're not set up for success.
(23:38):
It's just it's, that's corporate, but, it's not a great experience for that human being, and particularly for Kristen, Christine Holgate.
I can only imagine how traumatic that whole experience was for her a hundred percent.
Exactly and I think that's gonna be the question.
Now, what I wanna play for you, Claire, is one of the quotes from Christine during her Senate testimony.
(24:03):
So I'll just play this for you now, Claire.
I do not want what's happened to me to happen to any individual ever again in any workplace.
I was humiliated by our prime minister for committing no offense, and then bullied by my chairman.
I have done no wrong so I'll leave it with that.
(24:27):
But looping back now to Susan Lay as women, we should be supporting Susan Lay.
But can I support a party that I fundamentally don't agree with? And now I've got this conflict, which is I wanna support a woman in a leadership position.
I wanna see another female prime minister.
It seems that pathway would be Susan Lay, but I fundamentally don't agree with the behaviors of numerous members of the party, and they're predominantly men.
(24:54):
Where do I reconcile for that? Claire, we've got some big news that's happened in the last few days, and that is we've got a new Pope.
We do, and it's Cardinal Robert Francis Privos, but now he is known as.
Pope Leo the 14th.
I actually had to be like, wait, how do I pronounce this? Okay.
Like X is ten one before V is four.
(25:17):
Okay.
14.
I had to rethink about my Roman numerals because other than primary school, when do you actually use Roman numerals? No, exactly right.
I actually did a bit of a Google 'cause I was like, why? Why are they changing the names? What's the story behind that? And actually.
Fun fact, it's a symbol of a new mission.
Oh.
So the name marks a start of this new spiritual chapter, and usually it's aligned with the way that they want to go about their work really.
(25:46):
It's been a tradition since.
500 and fif 33 ad.
There you go.
Do you know what's a fun fact about the conclave? Because I've been getting served lots of fun facts about conclave now that they've been, we're getting a new pop, we've got a new Pope, and that is when they had their very first conclave.
It was because it took them years to pick out a new pope and it was causing so much chaos that the people of the Vatican locked them in and said, you're not coming out until you pick a pope.
(26:15):
And they went, you're kidding.
Yeah.
And they're like, okay, that actually worked quite well.
Let's do it again.
And that's what they've done since.
I love it.
I actually I googled that as well because I was wondering, they get locked in there and I was like, do they eat, do they get fed? Apparently they do get fed not in that room, but they get fed in a building across the hall, and they go between those two buildings.
(26:38):
But no phones allowed.
If you are under the age of 80, you're in.
However, if you're 80 and above, sorry, but don't get a vote.
You are not gonna get a vote and you don't get to participate in there.
However do you think that's because they're like, oh, what are we gonna do with all these people that can't walk on frames and that sort of thing? So like the eighties, like if you're under 80, you can like self-sufficient in the conclave where we're all locked in together.
(27:01):
Yeah, but also there'll be there.
There will be a proper reason for it.
I'm just making this chapel.
It's big, but it's not that big.
No.
They got it and I would assume that a lot of them are over the age of eighties, so you've gotta somehow cap the numbers.
I did love all the tiktoks though, of watching like the nuns running to.
St.
Peter's Square to see the new Pope walk onto the balcony.
(27:22):
That was just so gorgeous and so pre precious.
It's very sweet.
I know.
'cause you think it's like their first time living and they get to see this, and to them this is their new leader and the one who's gonna provide them with spiritual inspiration to them.
It's so wonderful.
Yeah, and I was really curious about what the reaction would be because he's the first American born pope in history.
(27:43):
And Trump was just like he had something to thank for.
Trump said he'd be make a great pope despite the fact he's not Catholic.
Yeah.
Because he is American.
So yeah, we'll see what happens.
Now we've got new Pope Leo the 14th.
Mm-hmm.
Welcome.
He also is, whilst not as progressive as Pope Francis, he is going to extend a lot of the good work that Pope Francis did, particularly when it came to peace.
(28:09):
Supporting global reach across the world as well as in supporting more inclusivity and making sure the church is an inclusive and welcoming environment.
Yes.
So while he and that's the thing, he's not a crazy conservative he is more on the moderate side.
So I do think we'll see that great work that Francis started continue, which, we need that probably happening in the world given everything else going on at the moment.
(28:34):
And there has been some positive global reaction.
So we've heard from Trump but also the Peruvian president as well, because he does have that missionary background in Exactly, exactly.
I did enjoy though someone dug up some tweets from the new Pope and a lot of it was him making fun of JD Vance.
Oh really? Are you saying that the Pope is a fan of Twitter and he's posting on Twitter? Yes.
(29:02):
So we have found two tweets that one the new Pope Pop Leo said, which is.
JD Vance is wrong.
Jesus doesn't ask us to rank our love for others, and he also reposted an op-ed in response to the suffering of migrants, summarily deported by the Trump administration.
(29:24):
Do you not see the suffering? Is your conscience not disturbed? Wow.
And this is like the second popal snub of JD Vance.
'cause we spoke about when JD Vance was so excited to meet the Pope and the Pope gave him a lecture on compassion and now the second Pope has just outwardly attacked him.
I love this energy and real logistical question here, is it similar to, when people get married and they reserve like a handle? Like how long had he reserved Pope Leo as a handle? No, he hadn't reserved the Pope.
(29:55):
It was his own.
No, it was his own cardinal social media.
Okay.
So he did, I it was, they were dug out from before he was elected.
Yes.
But now does he's, he uses the Pope account.
He hasn't sent that under the Pope.
They would just dug out after he was elected for people to say, oof.
Funny.
If he'll have a Pope now, he will.
He will.
So the Pope does have his own social media handles, very similar to how POTUS has theirs and the royal family also have theirs.
(30:19):
I love these.
It's another world.
I know, and it just reminds me of that saying there is no love, but like Christian hatred.
Oh, yes.
And I think it really brings JD Vance under point to say, you say you're a Catholic, but you don't envision Catholic values, and that is the Catholic church really positioning them away from the way he's behaving.
(30:41):
Absolutely.
I think it's honestly as clear as it could be really.
A quick legal note before we dive in.
Erin Patterson's trial is still underway in Victoria.
She has pleaded not guilty and remains presumed innocent.
We're only summarizing evidence heard in open court and reputable news.
This is commentary, not news, facts or verdict calling.
(31:03):
If you're a juror, witness or otherwise involved in the case, please stop listening now and return after the trial ends.
So that's the time we've been waiting for.
It's that weekly update.
It's the true crime case that has been gripping Australia.
Three people have been have died basically from a family lunch.
And there's a woman that's been accused of it, and that is Erin Patterson.
(31:27):
The courtroom drama is unraveling, like honestly a thriller.
It feels like we are learning more each day, and it's just really fascinating and the drama.
It all is really coming to light now.
So Claire, what is the update? Should we start with day one? Yes.
(31:47):
So I'll do a roundup of where we're at with the trial because a lot has happened and I can't even tell you Gab, the last time we had a murder trial where you're getting action by action updates on live feeds.
There is hundreds of journalists that are focused on this murder trial, but we have summarized it and.
(32:10):
We spoke about last week, the opening statements where we learned a series of information such as that Erin was served.
So the beef Wellington was served by Erin on different crockery.
We learned that Erin acknowledged that she had forage for mushrooms.
We learned that Erin had claimed that she had cancer when she's been agreed that she did not, and we also learned that Erin.
(32:37):
Position is that this was a horrible accident.
So that's a lot.
And so much has happened since then.
We've started hearing from witnesses and really different perspectives of the lead up and the day and sort of those days beyond that lunch day a really.
(32:58):
Coming to life now? Yes, absolutely.
So last week we heard from Simon Patterson.
He is Erin's estranged husband.
We learned that he was invited to the lunch, but he did not attend, and Erin was quite disappointed for that.
We learned about the tumultuous relationship, that was their partnership.
(33:19):
And from that they had two children's By all accounts, it sounded like a relationship where they just kept coming together, breaking apart, and they eventually realized they were better apart.
We learned that they co-parented really well until Erin's Pat ex-partner Simon, filed his tax return as separated.
And that really upset Erin.
(33:39):
Yes, and I don't think up until that point they had a really solid routine is what we heard that.
Most of during the week that the kids would be with Erin at her place.
And then most of the week, on the Friday they would go to their dad's and then they'd go home after school back to their moms on the Mondays.
So it was a bit of a ritual that they were in up until that point.
(34:00):
Yeah, and it has been quite interesting 'cause Simon spoke about how he wished that he got the kids more.
He wanted the kids more interactions with the kids.
But then when we actually heard from the kids said, well, we didn't really like gonna dad because it was really boring.
He did nothing with us.
He just played video games.
Whereas we like being with mom because mom always had something for us to do.
Yeah.
And I think that's what we heard a lot is about and even from the people that Erin was on Facebook groups with about, whilst they hadn't really met, but they would hear about all the stuff that she would do with the kids, that it sounded like she was quite an active parent.
(34:34):
She was a very active parent.
So day four we concluded the cross-examination of Simon.
And Simon did say that Erin was someone with a fear of hospitals.
She had quite a bit of an anxiety and some other real health issues.
And Simon also said that she suffered with postnatal depression and was always worried about his, her health.
(34:55):
And he also acknowledged that Erin never really.
Openly fought with his parents.
Whilst that time it could be awkward.
Aaron got along well with his parents and I think that was one of the key things that we had from when the prosecution opened, is that there was no motive.
So we're still at this point saying we don't really understand.
We, I wouldn't say there's been like a smoking gun as to, no motive from these interactions so far.
(35:20):
Especially, particularly the in-laws and.
The pastor and his wife, which are the, I think it's the auntie and uncle of Simon, isn't it? Exactly, yes.
So Ian Wilkinson, who we heard on for the fifth day of the trial, he was the sole survivor of the mushroom attack, and he confirmed that Erin invited them for lunch out of the blue because she wanted to have an adult conversation.
(35:47):
And they were quite excited because they had not been invited to lunch with Erin before.
So they're like, oh, this is different.
This is novel.
Yeah, we'd love to go.
They, he commented that when the lunch was served, Erin ate off a different orangy plate and they had separate plates that were gray during the meal.
They joked about the husband's finishing the wive's meal.
Don Patterson ate more than one portion.
(36:09):
He ate the rest of his wive's meal.
Erin faked her cancer diagnosis during dessert, and they prayed.
So Erin told them that she had ovarian cancer and how should she talk to the kids? And they said, okay, this is why we're here.
It was very humanizing.
Ian did not make any accusations about Aaron.
He was calm, he was honest.
He had a recollection that painted a sort of, quite a factual about what occurred.
(36:35):
He didn't really make any sort of, I believe it was this, it was more just, yeah, I was at the lunch, was nice to be there.
It was a lovely meal.
And then we went home that night and we were quite unwell.
Another thing that he did talk about is his wife, Gail.
Was particularly interested in the pantry.
Yes.
And there was a part of the lunch where Gail was asking Erin about her pantry, and she had gone in there.
(37:03):
And was looking in the pantry, and he had called Ian a number of times to come and check out the pantry.
However, he did note that Erin, his perception was that Erin was a little bit stressed about them going into the pantry, so he didn't go in and have a look.
I can relate my pantry's a mess at all times.
There's so much food in there.
(37:24):
It's it's like behind the curtain, isn't it? It's behind the curtains.
Yeah.
Like the pantry's just where I kind of put it all in and it's not a Instagram, Google pantry at all.
Yeah.
So that was interesting.
We also heard from you mentioned the kids.
But the son who is a teenager and probably provided.
A lot more detailed insight than his younger sister.
(37:47):
Erin was very upset when she saw them speaking.
So for the son, they played the video that was recorded when he was originally interviewed and they actually had the daughter on the stand.
And part of the.
Son's testimony was that he was there during the lunch period.
He had a friend over, they spent some time downstairs and they had headphones on most of that time.
(38:12):
But he does recall collecting the plates on the table and putting them in the sink.
Yes, he did.
He also commented that night Aaron served the meal leftovers to them, and he said it was delicious.
He doesn't remember eating pastry, but he remembers eating the meat, the mashed potato, and the green beans.
He also recalled that night and the day after that incident and the promise of going to a flight lesson.
(38:39):
Which they got most of the way there from what I understand.
And then they had to turn around and head back home.
Mm-hmm.
So that was the day after the lunch? Yes.
And that was quite telling because Erin's discussions with the investigators was that, she had to stop constantly go to the bathroom and her son was like, yeah, we drove all the way to the airfield.
(39:01):
Then we realized the flight wasn't gonna happen so we got something to eat.
Mum didn't eat.
She said she was feeling unwell, but she had a coffee.
And it wasn't intuitive of someone who had severe diarrhea like she said she had.
Yes.
So that, I think that was interesting.
And when they had.
Medical testimony about the symptoms.
(39:22):
Mm-hmm.
And what could cause the symptoms? It was said that while it could be caused by the poisoning from the mushrooms, those symptoms could also be caused through stress and anxiety.
Yes.
So Erin did present to the hospital and the hospital staff were very concerned about her.
She tried to leave after.
(39:42):
Arriving at the hospital and they immediately called and said, if you don't return back, we're gonna call the police.
They requested that she bring her children to the hospital and she said she didn't want to, she didn't wanna frighten the children, and they said we, if you don't, you know there'll be consequences.
I think the words they said were, it's better if your children to be alive and frightened than dead.
So the children were brought to Dan Long Hospital.
(40:03):
Erin was also kept overnight for observations, and they found no concern to the health of Erin and the children.
Yes.
And if we go back to, because the reason why the children were tested is because they had leftovers.
They ate the leftovers.
One thing I found interesting was when asked how they knew they were leftovers of the lunch both children said it was because the mom had told them it was leftovers.
(40:32):
We're left with that.
Really? Yes.
One thing I will call out though is that when the police asked for Erin's assistance to find the leftovers of the meal, she did say, yes, you can find the leftovers in a brown paper bag in the rubbish bin at my house.
And that allowed the police to go and collect those and bring them back to the hospital for observation testing.
(40:53):
Yeah, they found it straight away.
They did.
So Erin was very quick to provide that information to them on request.
Absolutely.
We also heard from a number of doctors and nurses that were at the hospital and also those that were treating the other victims, and they spoke about how quickly they deteriorated and the pain and suffering they went through.
(41:15):
As well as them investigating their health and clarifying with mushroom experts that it was death cap mushrooms.
And part of that experience for them is we know that.
They were airlifted to the hospital, to the second hospital, weren't they? And I think, yes, Ian was on that first flight.
(41:36):
Yes.
Yes.
So they were airlifted from Borough Hospital, which is tiny.
I've actually been there.
Oh, you have? Yeah.
Yeah.
'cause I remember I grew up in Corum.
Of course.
Yep.
So I've been there is tiny, very limited.
And at those hospitals they often only have one doctor and it's just way above their capabilities.
So was airlifted to, I think it was Monash in the end.
And that's where unfortunately, the other three did pass away, and Ian was able to receive the treatment that saved his life.
(42:03):
And so this is now the second week.
What can we expect? Do we know what is on the agenda this week in court? So today they didn't have court.
It was a non evidence stay for the jury.
I believe we'll be hearing from more medical experts, scientists as well as.
Technology and other area elements of the prosecution's case.
(42:26):
Our justice system works very different to what you see on TV if the evidence is agreed.
So that's evidence where the defense doesn't really have any questions about it.
They accept that's, fine to have they present that to the jury as part of the prosecution's case.
It's presented very factually and in some instances where there's no disputed evidence, they might allow statements just to be read and like the case of the sun, where they just allowed his video evidence to be played.
(42:54):
That's so fascinating.
Yes.
So then when the defense presents their case, it's not, okay, the prosecution took three weeks.
The defense will take three weeks.
The defense is only then presenting additional delta that helps them present their case.
Interesting.
So how long until we could expect to hear from the defense? I would say it's a probably a couple more weeks.
(43:15):
Yeah.
And then it will depend on how much information the defense wants to put forward.
And then they'll go to final closing, which is a summary of everything that's been presented in there into interpretation of it.
And then the judge will summarize their understanding of the case and then provide instructions to the jury to begin their deliberations.
I would say we're probably a good.
(43:38):
Three or four weeks away before we reach a position where jury will begin deliberations, there's so much more that's going to come out of it.
I know, I already feel like there's been so much information and really just starting to piece together different perspectives and the story coming to life and I, yeah I am fascinated to see what will happen over the coming weeks, what more will come out and whether the painted picture will become clearer.
(44:04):
Absolutely, and we'll be back next week for week three of Death Cap Diaries.
Oh, I love the name so much.
That's it for this week's episode of Spin Cycle from Susan Lay and the liberal leadership fallout to Christine Colgate's, legacy Erin Patterson's Mushroom Courtroom Theater and the election of a brand new Pope.
(44:26):
If you like the episode, send it to a mate.
Leave us a review, or just yell your thoughts into the group chat.
We'll be back next week with more headlines and the spin behind the stories.
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