August 7, 2025 • 46 mins
Cawnawyn and co-host Annette share personal stories about their own spiritual journeys and parenting experiences while discussing the significance of the Lughnasadh season. We dive into Annette' s spirituality, earth-based practices, and how to teach children gratitude and the importance of staying present. This episode also highlights the astrology of August 2025 and how the transits might impact parenting.
00:00 Welcome to Stars and Sprouts
00:32 Meet Co-Host: Annette
01:35 Annette's Spiritual Journey
06:04 Parenthood and Spirituality
09:04 Earth-Based Practices and Herbalism
17:59 Celebrating Lughnasadh with Kids
23:40 Toddler Wisdom: Lessons from the Little Ones
24:59 Embracing Jupiter in Cancer: Nurturing and Transformation
26:06 Managing Emotions: Parenting with Patience
28:35 Mars in Libra: Balancing Justice and Detachment
30:13 Lughnasadh Reflections: Personal and Seasonal Insights
40:50 Teaching Gratitude: Simple Acts and Profound Lessons
43:27 Final Thoughts and Community Engagement
Stay tuned for educational episodes every three weeks, alternating between celebrations of Sabbats and enriching interviews with industry professionals. Questions, comments, suggestions can be addressed to starsandsproutspodcast@gmail.com. Follow Cawnawyn on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok @cawnawynmor for more music, astrology, and witchcraft. Astrology classes, new podcast episodes, the Dark Moon Chronicle Blog, and music releases on cawnawynmor.com. Music by C. A. Worden ©️ Smashing Ivory Productions LLC 2025 Violin - Jean-Philippe de Passos (via Musiversal)Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Stars and Sprouts,a Pagan parenting podcast
where magic meets motherhood.
I'm your host, Cawnawyn Mor, here toexplore the sacred, the cyclical, and
the soulful path of raising childrenin rhythm with the earth and stars.
(00:30):
So today is a very special day.
Welcome i'd like to introduce youto my co-host, Annette, and she
is a fellow pagan mama, a naturelover, an earth honoring soul, and
I cannot wait for you to meet her.
Hi Annette.
Please introduce yourselfto our lovely audience.
Hi everybody.
Oh my goodness, Cawnawyn,I'm so excited to be here.
I'm so happy to have you finally.
(00:52):
I just, , started as a fan girl soto be on the other side of the mic
with you talking about these topicsthat I'm so excited about is really
so special and I just can't wait.
We've been dreaming this up for awhile now, so to finally be in the
first recording Zoom room together,I'm so stoked to have you here Yeah.
And be in presence with you.
(01:13):
And we've had so many incredibleconversations up until this
point, and so now we've made it.
And so we're, so
we've made it
excited to share this all with you.
Yeah.
And much has happened in thosein between moments that I think
we're all necessary to have likea really potent conversation now,
oh my gosh.
And for you especially, you've had somany changes in your family too, and
just the time that I've known you.
Yeah.
Isn't that wild Time is so strange.
(01:35):
Would you tell us a little bit aboutyour family and about your path and
how your spiritual life has evolvedalongside your motherhood journey?
Yeah, absolutely.
When I think of family, Iactually think of my parents
and how I grew up as a child.
And my household was prettysecular for most of my youth.
My mom came from a Catholic backgroundand my dad a Protestant background,
(01:56):
but they both explored Buddhismtogether and my dad actually chanted.
Twice a day, every day.
And an ancient Chinese dialectNichiren Shōshū Buddhism, it's
commonly practiced in Japan.
And so that was, eyeopening.
Not every suburban Philadelphiankid had that growing up experience.
He's now a Baptist, and yeah, I guessit just made me open-minded enough,
(02:16):
but, oh my goodness, my poor sixthgrade teacher, Mr. Burns, I distinctly
remember coming up to my teacher.
I have a bad habit of kinda likethrowing myself upon people to
like get some sort of, answer.
And I told Mr. Burns like, I wanna starta religion about like rocks and trees.
And so that kind of implies that I didn'tknow that that was actually viable already
existing very traditional thing despitemy, you know, super open-minded household.
(02:39):
So we traveled as a familyin just the United States.
And those were very like naturebased trips and had a lot of
exposure, to travel and being placesthat were about the landscape.
So, that groundwork was always there,but it, it's been a long time coming and
I'm kind of slow evolution to get to aplace where I would call myself, a witch.
(03:00):
And so now you know, I'ma parent of two girls and.
I have husband, and Iguess that's my family now.
My new nuclear grouphere, still adjusting.
the establishment of that family isvery much parallel to my timeline
of claiming a title of witch my gradschool years was when I was like
really starting to explore this.
(03:20):
And that was also when my relationship wasforming and deepening with my now husband.
So yeah, it's sort of justco-evolved and they've related to
each other mostly unintentionally.
I so resonate with you about having thatreality check of like, oh wait, my nuclear
family now is like my kids, my husband.
Because yeah, I, I still think of familyalso as my upbringing in a large way.
(03:42):
Remind me, what, what, what didyou go to your undergrad for?
I studied engineering actuallymaterial science, engineering and
biomedical engineering because I amstill kind of obsessed with trying to
understand like the root of the thing.
I've been turning over all thestones looking for that answer.
And I feel like I'm actually starting toget answers now, which is really exciting.
I feel like is such acommon thread, right?
Amongst many witches.
(04:02):
I know.
We have this like insatiable curiosityfor the why and the deeper why.
Not just the, well, this iswhat our answer was told.
No, actually we need to feelthat for ourselves and know
that internally for ourselves.
Yeah.
I think that that searching for thewhy is something that we all share.
That's like really driving so many ofus who have a spiritual path, especially
a spiritual path that we're forging.
Right?
(04:22):
Like not to.
Imply that, or assume thatwe all have authority issues.
Right?
But like,
I kind of think we do.
I think we do, I think we do.
I feel like that's like a, apassed down, like generational
trauma that we've all inherited.
But, you know, negativityaside, like just authenticity
to feel it, to really feel it.
You know, I think it hasto be kind of discovered.
I think it all just builds.
I feel like we're always spiralingtowards our understanding.
(04:45):
Gotta kind of go here and there.
There's these inflection pointsthat, you know, maybe kind
of stand out and remember.
Sometimes there's a momentof kind of like revelation.
I often look back and sort ofwonder why I didn't know it before.
Why didn't they teach us this in school?
Looking for kind of a lot of blame.
And more recently I'm thinkingthat revelation is such a
profound and powerful moment.
(05:05):
Why am I resentful, you know,of having discovered it.
Like the act of discovery is so profoundand like holds so much of the meaning
and the motivation and that kind of likeinternal shifting work it's a blessing,
it's a gift and to kind of have to workfor it and to earn it and to come to it,
with all of these years of experienceand perspective and therefore be all
(05:27):
the more profound is like so great.
It's been changing the wayI look at my, upbringing, my
parents and, and all of that.
Yeah.
I do think we have to do some likeserious internal and shadow work to like,
recognize that it is a blessing, right?
To see past the, like, judgmentof ourselves, of like, why
didn't I get there sooner?
And that recognition of like, oh,things are meant to be this way.
(05:47):
It feels.
Very like divine in the sense it'slike, oh wait, this, all these
steps have amassed at this point.
But you have to like be willingto accept the gift of that.
And not all of us arequite ready for that.
I'm curious, you mentioned the spiralingand how this has all taken shape and
shifted and how recently some of theseshifts mentally have been occurring.
Do you find that this has kind oftaken place as you become a parent?
(06:08):
And what other surprises have you seen inyour spirituality since becoming a mother?
Yeah, so like I really thinkparenthood is a crucible.
I mean not everybody's experience ofparenthood is the same, obviously.
And what I'm getting at there is that thedemands may not be equally distributed
among either partner, assuming thatit's two people, which it can be any,
you know, flavor and combination.
(06:28):
But but like, just that theburdens frequently fall primarily
on one person, especially inour sort of like modern culture.
I could say a lot about that, but I won't.
That's for more episodes in the future.
That's more episodes.
More episodes, yeah.
But yeah, like breastfeeding.
Oh my gosh.
It's an enormous amount of work andso when you're under that kind of
all the time demand, I think thatthat really distills things down
(06:53):
like that pressure clarifies desireand belief in a really big way a
new thing that I'm thinking about.
So similar to like Revelation being likean opportunity for joyous, savoring,
I think that this feeling I often havenow where it's like, I can look at my
family and my obligations, financialand otherwise, and sort of see how these
(07:14):
are like tethers upon me and ones thatI've chosen but actually I think that
with that tether, that holding back andthat peering over the edge, you can play
with possibility and you really feelthat continual, pressure, to strive,
I was plagued by indecisionbefore I had kids.
And just the act of doingsomething felt so magical.
(07:35):
'cause I had to like surmount theseamazing hurdles of inertia now.
Like you're constantly doing something andnow the tension is not about like a just
get off your butt and, like do a thing.
It's, it's like, oh, I can't,I can't quite get there.
But it's a striving andthat momentum is there.
And yeah, so I, I think that for me,and I wonder if other parents are
(07:56):
feeling this out there, it is an extremeclarifier, an accelerator of personal
development and spiritual development.
And even just like looking atyour kids and being like, wow,
you just came out that way.
Like, how can you be, unmovedby that and seeing that, it's
just mind blowing and I love it.
I love that you brought that up.
I feel like creatively I so resonatewith that I know in the past I've had
(08:18):
some conversations with Gemini from Witchspace about just like how everything
has to become really practical becauseit, like you said, clarifies it down.
Like, what do I really care about?
Like, what am I reallytrying to get out of this?
But even in music school when I went forconservatory, they talked about like,
putting yourself in a box creatively isfar more generative than just be given
an open prompt to like create anything.
(08:38):
Like, well, what do Ipluck out of thin air?
Whereas yeah, frictioncreates fire, right?
And so all of that friction aroundtrying to cram things in and
do, you have to be so decisive.
So I love that you brought thatup because I really resonate
with that on so many levels.
Parenthood is a challenge that like youcan really rise to meet should you so
choose and like allow it to evolve you.
So much beyond whatever you thought waspossible and like you had capacity for,
(09:01):
and you can actually really kind of seewhat you're made of in that process.
Yeah.
So you've mentioned a little bit aboutearth-based practices and I'm just curious
like what your sense of earth-basedspirituality and connection with the
land, what that means to you and likehow you work with that in your own
practice, if you'd be willing to share.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean that's actually changing, Idon't know, every day a little bit.
(09:22):
As I have another experience, it opensanother door what I guess I'm calling my
religion in many cultures and histories,like wasn't considered religion, right?
It was just like daily life like.
Sort of indigenous people acrossthe world had frequently had these
relationships with land where, what wemay now think of as inanimate objects
(09:42):
had consciousness and had sovereignty.
And so it's really just that.
It's like, I'm gonna talk to thesetrees and these rocks, you know,
and let them talk back to me.
It's like pure just what feels right.
And it's nice to look to othertraditions just to understand
kind of what are the patterns thatother people have picked up on.
And I do think that there's somethingabout things that people have done
(10:04):
repetitively, said repetitively that canbe, kind of generative in its own way.
Blessed Be, do I feel like thatphrase, you know, really carries
like a lot of magic in it.
Well I think it's magic has been kindof earned and imbued by so many people
saying it with an intention over time.
Can I feel it really in my body asbeing true or does it maybe have some
(10:28):
root in history so I grow, plants.
I've been studying herbalism was able totake an in-person class on energetics.
That totally opened my mind.
And I listen to plants and Ireceive messages from them.
And I think anybody can do that.
I think it's a skill that anyone candevelop and if you're interested.
(10:48):
You know, you're in the right place.
' cause I am very much lookingforward to talking about it.
I can't wait because this is so an areathat I am not, like, I didn't come into
witchy-ness through the herbalism door.
I came in very much through the astrologydoor, hence what this podcast was named.
Stars and Sprouts.
Yes, absolutely.
Because it felt very much like ourtwo minds in union together and
(11:09):
bringing in that like as above,so below energy to this as well.
What's so cool, I feel like so muchof what you're talking about mirrors
what I've listened to a lot of, likethe Norse artists that I listen to,
like through Wardruna and Heil ung talkabout like animism and their beliefs
that, everything has a consciousnessand like that interconnection with, all
plants, animals being rocks, energiesand how interconnected that feels.
(11:31):
And it's not like the straight cutand dry thing, but they're looking
toward these historical references and.
Gaining that knowledge and meaning.
And then what you said aboutBlessed Bee kind of reminded me
almost of like an where we've putin so much collective energy into
Right.
A word, right.
Or a being.
And that's what gives it its power,then it kind of has a life of its own,
which is its own interesting concept,which I'm sure we'll dive into also
(11:53):
because those are the kinds of thingsI want to nerd out about with you.
Now with kids, right?
So how are you kind of applying thesesame practices and are you, taking
any of these things that you'velearned in herbalism, maybe through
your class or just through your owncuriosity and how are you involving
your kids if you are into your practice?
Yeah, you know, I think it's kindalike what Gemini said, where it's
(12:13):
like, I'm a pagan parent because I'mPagan and I happen to be a parent.
It's not like I am, bringing them alongwith this like sort of magical journey.
But kids are very perceptive.
And so just doing anything in front ofthem inherently is doing it with them.
My medicine making, you know, oh,we're gonna pick these flowers.
So I have oil infusion of St. John'sblossoms and, a percentage of the flowers
(12:36):
in there were picked by my toddler.
We did that together.
She helps me make my teasand, some cooking together.
you know, you just, In little moments,you pepper in something about the plant
or, you kind of ask their opinion aboutthis or that let them taste these things.
And I'm hopeful that thesesmall things will add up and.
(12:57):
You know, add up to what, youknow, what is it all about?
Why, why does it even matter?
I really think the goalI have is a noticing.
I wanna sort of teach awakeness,you know, that observation.
Kids are obviously pretty intuitiveall on their own, but I also really
think there's something aboutbelonging that I want to impart.
And so it's not just about belongingto our family, which is so small and
(13:17):
so limited, you know, we can only doso much and be there in so many ways.
But they really belong to the earthand they belong to the plants.
, Dr. Robin Wall Kimer, who wrote BraidingSweet Grass and the service Berry.
Talks about species loneliness.
And I just, I see that everywhere.
You know, I feel like somuch of the dysfunction
mm-hmm.
Is in conversation and like, sort oflike the public discourse is like,
(13:38):
oh, you're just, you're so lost in ahuman centric world and really don't
need to spend so much time there.
I think belonging doesn't just comewith hugs and kisses, it comes with
responsibility I think Cawnawyn inour generation, were kind of really
getting slammed with a lot of like.
Environmental crisis news.
humans are so detrimental to theearth and there's really no way to
be without being destructive and,and letting 'em know like, actually
(14:01):
your role here is to be a steward.
And we have that power toactually augment this world.
Yes.
That's so beautiful and so true.
Oh my gosh.
Earlier we talked about like that sortof through line of wanting to know the
why, that I really feel that, what'sthe need underneath that is that sense
of like, I belong to something biggerthan just myself and why is that
Right?
And I need to investigate that andto be able to expose young children
(14:24):
to something as profound as that insuch a meaningful, easy to grasp way.
Talking to plants, right?
It has like ripple effectsthat we don't even know.
But it's gonna change their psyche,especially when they're so young, like
three years old, like both of our kids.
And so, and even younger than that too.
Right.
Has anything that you've evershown them, created a reaction
that you were surprised by?
Like, did they ever say anythingthat you're like, whoa, you
(14:46):
are picking this up, or, yeah.
Yeah.
I've asked my three year-old a few times.
What does that tree say?
Just to see, you know, kind of like,oh, like, do you ever see things?
Do you ever just, every here and there?
I'll ask something like that.
But but no, I think the thing thatis coming to mind for me is like many
toddlers, she'll wanna like, pick a floweror a leaf or whatever, and I'll just kind
(15:07):
of say like, oh, did you ask permission?
Or even more effective.
I'll just say like, oh,we'll just say hello.
And she does, she gets reallyexcited and she's like, hello.
You know?
Just really, engagesand gets more out of it.
Like, I think , the act of pickinglike really what is being desired
there, might be sort of a connection.
(15:27):
And so being told like,oh yeah, you can connect.
Here's how you do it.
You just say hello, you know avertedmany a tantrum with that and not, I'm not
saying that's gonna work for all kids.
My kids are maybe notthe most tantrum prone.
We'll wait and see on the secondone, but the first one I mean she
obviously, she has her moments.
Woo.
We need a nap every now and then.
Yeah, I've tried using thattactic and it definitely works.
Okay.
I like have you asked permission.
That's good.
(15:48):
I, I'm gonna steal that one.
See if that works.
' My uh, baby winter might actuallyrespect that a little bit more.
Be into that one.
Yes.
I have one last question for you,to get to know you a little better,
and that is what is your spiritualpractice teaching you right now?
Well, I feel like I'm on this likerollercoaster and speed racing path
of change in revelation recently.
(16:09):
So I've been thinking a lot about timeand something I've noticed for myself
is that I'll be kind of fixated onsomething conceptually and then some
amount of time later it'll like kindof lock in and I'll be like, ah, yes.
Like, I understand, or I believe, thething that's sort of in the conceptual
space right now is that all time isright now, time and sort of all past time
(16:30):
and all future time is right now, time.
I guess the significance there is thatthat is the way in which we connect to
our ancestors, which means that thatis also the way that we connect to our
children's children's children, you know?
And that lineage going forward.
And I think there's a lot of emphasison ancestor work and, exploring
(16:50):
what is lineage work, you know,and what does that look like?
Yes.
Truly we should have like a whole episodejust on that alone and bringing that
practice in with kids, but also, yeah,that recognition 'cause the whole notion
of time is like, I mean, it's one humansare certainly still trying to figure out
and also it has, a much greater meaningwhen you consider the lineage of being a
(17:11):
witch, of the lineage, of being a paganand like how so much of our attention is
turned backwards, but then also creatinga beautiful earth for like going forwards.
I'm so excited 'cause you are here andyou are bringing such like a steady,
grounded rhythm to this podcast.
So thank you for agreeing to be my co-hostand coming up with ideas with me and
I think this is gonna balance out my,astro babble like airy fire-ness a lot.
(17:35):
So thank you.
'Cause we need all theexpressions of magic and,
well, I have no shortage of wordsas well as you clearly can see.
So,
hey, I'm, I'm all for it.
We're only at the very beginning of thispodcast, which is wild for me to say.
'cause I feel like you and I havebeen discussing this for a long time.
So now that we're finally in thisbeginning place, see all of time
wrapped into one experience andnow we're gonna move forward.
(17:59):
So the main thing we wanted todiscuss today is the current holiday
season of Lammas or Lughnasadh.
This is the middle ofthe summer on August 1st.
So we're gonna move into a newsegment together now I usually
consider this to be called Lughnasadh.
Do you call it anything specificallyfor you or do you observe the holiday?
I'm curious.
I just say Lunasa I'm new here,I'm figuring out as we go.
(18:21):
See you guys we're all learning.
Yeah, it's definitely gonna be, thesewill be excellent markers in time.
'Cause.
Everything is very new.
Yeah,
great.
I love it.
Well, let's dive in to what we'redoing to celebrate this year's
Lughnasadh with our little ones.
I did mention we're gonna kind of use theWheel of the Year as a marker of time in.
(18:46):
Our podcast, but I'm not Wiccan andAnnette, you're not Wiccan, right?
So if you're not like super jivingwith any of these, the biggest reason
I wanted to use this was just becausethey're marking these points in
the year in a regular manner wherewe're seeing the seasons change.
I think we're here to just discuss howwe are working with these times of the
year with our families and with our kids.
(19:06):
And Annette, do you wanna start usoff and talk a little bit about how
Lughnasadh and the rhythms of theearth are kind of playing together?
Sure.
Yeah.
So obviously this is going todiffer depending on where you are.
But.
We're both in the Pacific Northwest.
And I've been thinking about, whatam I feeling that's really distinct
(19:27):
to this moment that wasn't trueat midsummer and is not gonna be
true, at that fall, equinox time.
And it just feels like anoppressively liminal space.
So , we're harvesting , certain plants inthe garden obviously have been yielding
for some time and others not yet.
This is maybe the last gasp momentwhere I am to sow seeds for some leafy
(19:49):
greens that could come in the fall.
So it's kind of this mixture ofboth harvest and your last sowing.
There's something about fire that'scoming up for me a lot right now,
and obviously it's very dry here.
I mean, Pacific Northwest, it's,you know, oh, the rainforest or, you
know, whatever mossy reputation is.
But there's really longstretches without rain.
(20:09):
And July and August are someof those longest stretches.
So things are crispy andthere's that potential for fire.
But there's also a lot of traditionalstories here about fire and salmon
and the salmon coming up riverand being called home by fire.
And just how that speaks to, earlyhigh harvest and an anticipation
of harvest and an anticipation ofa mass death that feeds the land.
(20:32):
And I'm, I'm kind of.
Getting that like peak around the cornerat some of those more fall flavored.
I I'm looking at you, Samhain,
oh my god.
I know.
I'm already excited.
I can't wait.
I'm feeling it too this year.
I don't know what it is.
Yeah.
Like it's something inthe wind or something.
I'm like, wait, Halloween islike in less than a hundred days.
Please.
I, let's just start now.
So not that I'm excited for death, butyeah, there's kinda like a let's get
(20:54):
on with it feeling that I'm having.
But the fire, yes.
Lemme stick with that.
So the, there's also the madone trees andthe, there're trees that look like fire.
Stilled, bright orange barkunderneath sort of peely layers.
And those are peeling right now andthey're shedding leaves right now.
and These are fire festivals, right?
I can see why that history is paired here.
(21:15):
You know, I always really look forwardto we have a blueberry bush outside in
our yard and it's been getting largerand larger and like the blueberries
and the lavender always come out likereally strong for us around Lughnasadh.
So now I always likeattribute those two things.
I know like a lot of Lammas culturebecause of the loaf mass is connected
to wheat, of course, and the firstwheat also, when you think of Virgo,
season too being associated withvirgin and the wheat and measuring the
(21:37):
wheat from the chaff and everything.
yeah, I always associate lavenderand blueberries with this time of
year and like look forward to thosebushes giving fruit and all the yummy
things that we make from that tosort of draw out the end of summer.
And I feel like here in the PacificNorthwest too, sometimes our summers
last until like October it feels like,and we have these beautiful lush falls.
But I love what you said about the treeseven now, like kind of shedding and
(21:58):
I had like the most visceral sensualexperience when you were describing that
and just like feeling and smelling it.
On August 1st, 2025 by noon Pacific Time.
The sun is at nine degrees of Leo.
I'm gonna put in a little bit of astrologyhere just to kind of talk about, kind
of wanna approach this from a parentperspective and just sort of give
(22:20):
an idea of what we might experience.
We're past that center point ofMercury retrograde, so we might
actually start seeing where the answersor the issues miscommunications.
Some things start to get resolved.
Clarity starts to return a little bit.
So I hope that is the case for you.
Something I did reallywanna mention though.
Mars is approaching its oppositionwith Saturn and Neptune, and this
(22:42):
is a little bit of a tough transit.
So as a parent, I'm looking at thisthinking, okay, so we have some coming
up against some sort of authorityin this transit because Mars wants
to go and move forward in Libra itprobably wants to go toward what it's
interested in, what it's curious about.
It maybe doesn't even know what directionit wants to go in, but it knows it wants
to move towards something that it likes.
(23:03):
Saturn in Aries is saying,no, no, I want this.
Like, actually I wantthis thing over here.
And so that could look likeyou as a parent figure being
like, we need to get this done.
In fact, we need to rush this 'causeit's Aries, it's Mars energy, so I need
to get, I need to get you out the door.
We have to go to, you know, whateverit is, your camp here, we have
to go to the bathroom something.
(23:23):
And that Mars is saying, no, I'mover here interested in this thing
and I care about this over hereand I really don't wanna do that.
And it might even look a littlebit Mars and Libra can look passive
aggressive in its shadow form.
Now whether our kids are gonnabe passive aggressive, that
probably depends on your kid's age.
I know my 3-year-old isn't really tooconcerned with offending me or not.
(23:43):
So he will be pretty directand blunt about that.
In fact, he might even be the Saturnin Aries saying, no, I want this now.
Mom, he likes to tellme exactly what to do.
The other day he straightup interrogated me.
He's like, mama.
You cannot talk to alittle brother that way.
A little brother is busywith something else.
And I'm like, okay.
(24:04):
But I'm mom has your, has your 3-year-old,like started lecturing you yet.
Yeah.
Her favorite thing tosay is don't be quick.
Don't be oh,
and don't be quick as code for any time Isort of move or speak with you know, tone
Uhhuh.
She has no, no patience for it, whichshe's a sensitive person and I'm
(24:27):
really glad that she's pointing outlike she can tell when I've shifted
into that sort of state of annoyance.
And is it annoying tobe called out for it?
Yes.
It's, but it's also helpful and adorable.
I know.
I'm always like, thank youand I'm still your mom.
I need you to do the thing,whatever the thing is in the moment.
But it's, it's good to like, sort ofshake us out of that seriousness when we.
(24:49):
Allow ourselves like totake the hint, right?
Yeah.
If you have the capacity to kind ofslow down and those really sweet tender
moments of asking the deeper questionsof like, what did the tree say?
Right?
Like kind of going to that place thatfeels not tangible, but like holds more
profound meaning here, Jupiter in canceris gonna last for this whole next year.
It's why I wanted to release starsand sprouts when Jupiter was in cancer
(25:11):
because it is such a beautiful, exaltedenergy connected with divine feminine,
with nurturing, with caring for,
so it's about getting more private,getting more safe, frankly,
your feelings are safe with me.
This space together that we're creatingis a space to be vulnerable and share
emotion and share struggles too.
So there's a lot of profoundtransformation possible.
(25:32):
There's this sort of tug and pullbetween this big performance and like
what are we doing on the outside thatis thinking fast and doing the thing
we want and getting it done immediatelywith this let's back off and slow
down and recognize, you know, maybe wecan take our time a little bit more.
We don't have to rush into thingsand demand that things be our way
in an effort to create a spacewhere like everybody feels safe.
(25:53):
So as a parent, I'm definitelygonna be kind of paying attention
to that in this season becauseI'm dealing with two headstrong
toddlers and it always is better.
Like when I can just like backoff of being, I don't know, boss
mom and I can say like, actually.
Time is abundant right now, and I don'tneed to force, you know, I can allow
for the space for them to just have thefeeling, or even just in the moments
(26:14):
that are really, really tough andthey're struggling, they're tantrumming
or whatever it is, like I'm strongenough to hold space for their emotion.
I don't need to also take thaton and let it like, blow me outta
proportion, get super fiery, right?
Because,
yeah,
I, being a fire sign, I tend tolike magnify some of those emotions.
It's something I'm reallyworking on as a mom.
It's like, no, I'm the adult andI can hold the space for them to
(26:37):
be upset and not also get upset.
What that's making me think of is whenI can feel my toddler kind of going,
off the rails with her emotions.
I leave my body like.
So I spend a lot of my, my timein my thinking space, like, like
right up here in my forehead.
And I like to reach out and engagewith stuff kind of in front of me.
(26:58):
And like, I'll just go with her.
I'll just go on that ride with her andthen I'm also like pissed or whatever.
So I like have to visualize kind of comingback into my body and actually really
being in the back of my body and the backof my mind and having that space, that
gulf between the outside of my body andwhere I'm choosing to sit in my own body.
(27:19):
And that is the distance that givesme time to decide how to react.
And that sounds great,but how do we do it?
And like, I can't do this all the time,but moments when I have felt that way.
Certain plants that have helped meget there are yarrow, which is very
protective and can kind of createthat boundary where you even just
(27:40):
have a sense of where you are.
Okay.
It's like, oh, here, I feel this edge and,and that edge is going to protect me and
give me that space and I can, move back.
I had a really profound experience withthat, with one drop of yarrow essence.
So that's like,
it's some pretty concentratedyarrow, you know,
Very little plant matter is required inthis, you know, no, flowers must be harmed
(28:01):
in, in the making of this experience.
I mean, you can really just,especially if it's a plant that you
start to have a relationship with,you can just think about yarrow
and, start to feel these things.
And also just thinking about trees thatlive for a long time, this moment feels
so hot, but the 300 year old cedar tree.
Could really care less, you know,so trying to think into that tree
(28:22):
that's, you know, down the roadthese are some of my little handholds
with plants in those hot moments.
Okay.
see this is why I knew wehad to do this together.
'cause now my brain's like, oh my God, andthis is the high side of Mars and Libra.
So you're like the stars and the sproutscoming together because it's really
that, like you're kind of talking likein a way about the detachment, right?
(28:43):
And it's not to be cold, it's notto cut off emotion, it's just to
cut off from like getting caughtin the fray, like you said.
Oh yeah.
No, but explain that to me again.
What planets are doing what right now?
So Mars, right, so I mentioned earlierMars in Libra, when it's in its shadow
form, it can be very passive aggressive.
Like it's aggression'cause it's Mars or action.
(29:03):
But it's done in a way that is maskingit with like, oh no, everything's fine.
'cause it's masking it with a Venutianbeauty, which is the sign of Libra.
But actually Mars in its high formwhen it's in Libra is the judge.
And what does the judge do?
It's able to step back and detach fromthe situation to have that objectivity
and then act on behalf of a greater good.
And so Mars in Libra is justice
(29:25):
and what is true justice like in the form?
Oh, this is good too.
I'm having like personal hits right now.
not even Libra season, butlike, I feel like this is very.
Potent right now, just in general, likein a collective sense, but that whole
sense of like acting in the judge ofLibra, the judge expression of that and
seeing the sides for what they are seeingthe situation with this level of, I'm
not getting caught up into the drama.
(29:46):
I'm able to assess it andbring together all sides.
And it's not necessarily going toaffect me one way or the other, but
like I'm balancing the whole situation.
' cause so much of Libra energy can easilyslip into I'm dependent on this person's,
opinion or belief or, problem or crisis.
And the high side of Libra is saying,okay, I see that and I'm able to
(30:09):
act in accordance with that, but I'macting on behalf of a greater good.
' Well Lughnasadh time is one of my favoritetimes and frankly it's because I am a Leo.
I was gonna say, I was like,I see stroke your hair.
Like Yeah, because it's me.
My birthday is like rightbefore this, so it kind of feels
like it's all part of that.
But I didn't know about it until I becamea witch, which was pretty recently.
(30:32):
So to find out that there was like aSabbat that was so close to my birthday
and like I always associate this with funand games and fire and just like Leo Joy.
I know a lot of people observe the eight,eight phenomenon on the Lionsgate portal,
and this happened so closely with that.
But like, thinking about the courage,the strength, that like idea of what a
lion represents in human consciousness.
(30:52):
To me Lughnasadh is that time andI just kinda lump it all in with
what I'm already going through.
So it feels like my own sense of renewal.
But how have you interactedwith this holiday, if at all?
You know, I was doing a lot of reflectionleading up to this episode and I was
remembering how I have like a, a reversedseasonal depression or something.
I get pretty low in the summer andI feel like it's around this time.
(31:15):
so when I was, you know, thinkingabout like, well it's kind of this
liminal, fire festivals are oftenassociated with the other world.
And I'm like, was Ijust tapping into that?
I'm like, I don't know.
'cause I really love Samhain.
I mean, that's myfavorite time of the year.
Like, what is it about?
It's like, oh, maybe Ijust wasn't as productive.
You know, a lot of my self-worthis like tied up in productivity.
So that kinda like depth ofsummer, you know, you're not
on a scheduler routine as much.
(31:37):
And then one of the images thatcame to mind is like a heavy bow,
like weighted down with fruit.
You know, like there's like asaturation in this moment, I think.
And so yeah, kind of a, maybe a darker.
Or maybe it's just slower.
It definitely has adrone to it or something.
I haven't lived into a lot of traditionsaround these points of year, I don't
(32:00):
have like a lot of history to call on.
It's sort of just this vagueHmm, I used to feel this way at
this time and, that might change.
One of the most favorite things aboutsummer is when it's warm at night
and you can kind of go outside andthis was more of a thing on the East
Coast where it was humid and the skywould feel kind of low and you'd kind
of go outside and feel like you wereinside there was like a safety there.
(32:20):
And everything was available to youeven in the middle of the night.
Maybe that there's somethingabout courage and lion with that.
I don't know.
But I think we're in the thick of it here.
I feel like we're on the precipiceof something after this point.
We'll start feeling the fall creep in.
And I think for traditions that Iwanna cultivate really are about craft.
' cause Lugh, the God Lugh islike multi-talented, right?
(32:41):
So the games Absolutely.
That would be so fun.
And then also craft and I are somethingabout like a basketry or, fabrics
I have stems from Fever Fewthat are like this crazy
iridescent purple at the bottom.
And then my St. Johns word stemsare like this vibrant orange red.
I don't really know what I amgonna do with them, but I really
(33:02):
wanna do something with them.
Oh my God, you should.
Yes.
And then we'll post it.
Yeah.
I was taking pictures this morning and Icould not get the color to come up of the
stems as they are of the St. John's wart.
I have a bias, right?
I have the Leo birthday, so like
Yes, you do.
I have like the joyous aspect around this.
In fact it kind of threw me ifyou're familiar, most people you
(33:22):
know the Vivaldi seasons, right?
And his summer?
Nope.
Oh no.
Okay.
I think if I played it, Ifeel like you would totally be
like, oh, I know what this is.
Oh, oh, oh, okay.
Music.
Yes.
I'm, I'm sorry.
I know I like jumped.
Sorry.
I'm like, I have no ideawhat constellation that is.
Just be ready.
We're gonna hop around a lot.
Yeah, so Vivaldi seasons in his summer,it's like very, like slow and languid.
(33:43):
And even think about like whata lion, like a lion sleeps.
At least the male lionsleeps a lot, right?
I mean even the, Taurus Bull too, if wethink about the middle of Taurus season
and how like, I mean I always think ofFerdinand the Bull like with his flowers.
Like there's an immovablequality to fixed signs.
Of course they're fixed.
And so I think about likehow slow a lion moves.
And I remember the first time Iheard Summer by Vivaldi, I was like.
(34:05):
That's not summer, like summer is joyousand it should sound more like spring.
But then, yeah, the, the oppression ofheat too can really suck energy out of us.
And I love what you saidabout the nighttime too.
That's one of my favoritethings about this time of year.
Like I love being on my deck with theTwinkle lights and just like having
it be kind of that liminal spacebetween, you know, day and night and
twilight's just my favorite time of day.
(34:27):
I think it's beautiful.
And Twilight lasts for so long here upin the Pacific Northwest, I feel that
like in between space to me it's alwayslike, that's a magical time and so I
get like pumped up and jazzed about it.
But I totally understand where like now inmy later years just kind of feeling like,
oh yes, there is this, like what is time?
There is no schedule.
Like there's no regimented anythingand it can just kind of feel like
(34:48):
we're waiting for something tohappen and for our energy to return.
I think because of that, to be honest,like if I reflect, I'm really kind of
bogus at traditions around this time.
Like as much as I wanna participatein games, it always just kind
of feels like I'm, you know,going this way, going that way.
Trying to figure out like,what are we gonna do tomorrow?
What are we gonna do next week?
I don't know.
And so there's this liminalquality to it that, especially with
(35:10):
kids, I definitely resonate with.
Yeah.
Like a preparation for what's next Ithink is already kind of on the agenda.
But you know, at the games, the gameswere, also ways to perform skill
for, you know, maybe deciding whathousehold you're going to be in for
the busy demands of the next few monthsof harvest and that kind of thing.
There was sort of a utilitariankind of gathering preparation.
(35:32):
Okay, how are we gonna organize ourselves,our resources, our people, you know
in that and, and this is thinkingfrom like, what we know of like Irish
traditional practice around this time.
So I think that that's fair to be, youknow, it's not necessarily like a trivial
game, and I think if I had infiniteresources, I would love to have kind of
like a little field day and a common green
(35:53):
mm-hmm.
In my neighborhood, you know, likea little block party type thing.
And just, you know, have that likesharing of food, sharing of resources,
sharing of parental oversight so youcan kind of relax for, a couple minutes.
But, well, actually, you know what?
I'll just tell my next doorneighbor and then it'll happen.
But I know myself, I would not beable to get that idea off the ground.
We've had a couple picnics throughoutthe summer that have been really, really
(36:16):
special, outside in the land and I'vealways needed to tell someone else
that idea and then they made it happen.
So I'll just have to do thatagain and get some games going
and, and maybe some crafts.
Yeah.
If Lughnasadh has a message formodern pagan parents, mamas out
there, what do you think it would be?
Well, this is less to do maybewith Lughnasadhs from like a, any
(36:40):
year, but like what you were justdescribing in the astrology and about
this tension of being rushed and notbeing interested in being rushed I
guess I just wanted to offer like.
Why are we in such a rush and the senseof importance of getting somewhere and
like who assigned to that importanceand, you know, what does it mean to
you to let go of that importance?
(37:00):
I wonder if maybe this season when we'retrying to, cultivate that objective
judgment, we can turn that eye to someof our other values and maybe free
ourselves from obligations that wedon't really need to keep carrying.
And you know what, to connect it backto what you said at the beginning was
like time is now, like the present time.
Why are we thinking about thenext season or the previous
(37:21):
season or where we have to go?
Being in that present place of like,it doesn't have to be anything.
It just can be and.
What is the rush for?
Like that objectivity, there'sa deep presence in that
and like 10 years from now, is itgonna matter that you were late,
that you were 10 minutes late?
Even if you were like chronically 10minutes late, even if you lost that job.
'cause you were chronically,you know what I mean?
(37:42):
Like, what is your kid gonna remember?
Is your kid gonna rememberthat stress of always feeling
rushed and the constant yelling?
I think that there's a greatervalue to letting go of that.
You know, caveats and asterisks there,there's sometimes it's really important
and sometimes that job is non-negotiable.
But yeah, I think having that10 year perspective, 20 year
(38:02):
perspective deathbed perspective.
Maybe we could just say likefive generations down the road.
I mean, like I,
I like to think onextremely long time scales.
All at once.
All at once.
Yeah.
It's a choice.
And so taking that pause and sayinglike, Hmm, do I need to be this way or.
Is there a different option?
I really love the idea that likethis time of year is like the earth
(38:24):
teaching us that wisdom of , Hey,actually you can be present.
Like you don't have toget to the next thing.
Time is abundant, you know?
Ooh,
we are here,
but I love, Samhain I wanna be there now.
I know we'll get there.
Okay, fine.
That's not to say it's not happening,but right now, and I really need this
reminder folks, because I've beentelling my husband for weeks that I,
(38:45):
all I wanna do is go shop for Halloween.
It's like watch Halloween, YouTube.
It's like my comfort thing.
And we are not even in Augustyet while we're recording this.
So I'm like,
oh my God.
But I'm so for that
need to be present, like
such duality,
enjoy.
I've been looking forward to summerall year and then it gets here and
it's like, okay, ready for fall?
Like so yes, thank you to our beautifulMother Earth for giving us this
(39:07):
season of presence and awareness.
And like I think to sortof round this out, right?
I mean this holiday ultimatelyis also about the recognition of.
The abundance, right?
Like seeing the fruits of ourlabor , and you know, participating,
in the labor together and recognizingour skills enjoying this time.
So I think it can be reallyeasy to sort of overexplain or
overcomplicate gratitude, especiallywhen we're talking with young kids.
(39:30):
And like, it's kind of an interesting,I don't know, from like my own
perspective, it's been really interestingtrying to explain that to them.
Where like, it's kind ofjust , needs had, needs met.
Like, you know, in terms of the mom sonrelationship in our family and to express
gratitude as something that like, I reallyfeel like has had to come from them seeing
us act as an example of saying thank you.
(39:52):
More a show don't tell kind of thing.
So around this time, of course, gratitudebeing so prominent of a theme and.
I know that I've talked previouslyon the podcast about I do the feast.
So the feast for Lughnasadh is gonnabe a big one, and I, I really prefer
to have this one outside if possible.
Because we do have the nice weather,so when I enjoy it and just be outdoors
(40:12):
together, enjoying the sunshineor maybe in the twilight hours.
And I try to just keep the gratitude,like really simple, but I also usually
will perform , the shortened blessings ofthe food and the drink for these times,
just so they kinda see me going throughthose motions and understanding like,
okay, there's something bigger going on.
It's not just like dinner outside.
there's actually a moment thatwe're taking to celebrate.
(40:32):
And a lot of my questions for themfrom about Solstice to now, like
winter solstice to now are verymuch about sort of the manifesting
of like, what are we going to do?
Lughnasadh says around the time that Istart switching into like the gratitude
of what has come and looking backward.
So that's kinda one of the waysI'm working with gratitude.
But I was curious about , howdoes one teach gratitude to their
(40:53):
children asking for a friend?
Yeah.
I think that when am I notthinking about John Moriarty?
Ugh, love him, please.
YouTube him.
He's an Irish philosopher,poet, writer, and he tells this
story about busy, busy mice.
And along this mouse's journey recognizesa series of other animals as great beings.
(41:14):
You know, what a great being andin the acknowledgement of the
majesty of these other animals he'sencountering there was great healing.
And I think that gratitude, you cankind of come at it and cultivate
it by just recognizing like, beautyand awe and that kind of thing.
And so I'd really like the idea of acouple poignant questions like you're
(41:35):
saying, and also just like a touch ofritual with some formal language to
sort of acknowledge a particular day.
But in general, I think conversationsabout like, isn't that just like
the most beautiful strawberry?
Mm. Yeah.
Like, isn't that just likethe most brilliant color here?
And I also like the idea of talkingmore about where things came from.
(41:55):
Like how do you think this got here?
You know by kind of going to plantsand places and more frequently saying
aloud like, oh, what a great being.
And just letting the rest,go off in their little minds.
Yeah.
But just posing that question, it'slike giving them the prompt, right.
And then letting them run with it.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
What a great being.
Just saying it.
(42:16):
And I think that that's maybe thedifference between saying and feeling,
you know, I can more potently, cultivatea, you know, a feeling of maybe it's
like a resonance, a frequency ofgratitude when I say what a great being,
what blessing, what awe, what, youknow, ridiculous deserved grace to
be in the presence of this tree.
(42:39):
Mm-hmm.
This blade of grass, this stone that'spressed into, a. Tar, which is ancient
other plants and animals, you know,like, nothing's mundane if you don't
want it to be, you can put that energy ofattention, of engagement towards anything.
just having that phrase and that noticing,
that awareness,
I think gratitude will come from there.
Yeah.
(42:59):
Yeah.
Okay.
I love, I feel like this came tolike such a beautiful circle where
like we talked about like thatquestioning why, and like going deeper
and then that need for belonging.
And then once that belongingis like, felt in the awareness
of wow, what a great being.
Oh, and then, and then thatonly asks like more questions.
Why?
I don't know.
I was just like, oh my gosh, whata beautiful, like, we've come to
(43:21):
this like gorgeous cyclical timeand I honestly feel like that.
Just so beautifullywraps this whole thing.
I'm just like so excited that youare gonna be with me on this journey
together and that we're talking aboutthe Sabbats, but also just like these
much greater more profound themes inquestioning all of our existence frankly,
and how that plays into parenting.
(43:42):
And then witnessing that sacredjourney within our own children too.
And then going through it also, whichthat in and of itself is a whole
conversation of the involvement.
You know, this
is making me think of another JohnMoriarty comment of you know, we can
experience our immortality, mortallyor immortally, but because we've
been given bodies, we experience itmortally and therefore exquisitely.
(44:07):
We are a life that has a limitedtimeline and we are shepherding
other lives this is our mortalchapter that we're engaging with.
And isn't it exquisite?
I mean, wow.
Mic drop please.
That was, that was exquisite.
And I just feel like that's all,that's where we need to end this.
(44:30):
'cause that was so perfectly,
that would be great.
So beautiful.
I'm having so much fun.
I have so thirsted for sharingthoughts for so long, so hopefully
someone actually listens.
It would be really fun tolike, have dialogue, you know?
Yes.
Well, hey, and any of you out there,I'd love to hear, we would love to
hear what you're doing to celebratethis first harvest with your family.
(44:51):
So you can comment on this podcast whetheryou go to your favorite podcast streaming
platform, and you can comment there.
I love it if you guys gave us arating so we can sort of move up and
reach more Pagan parents out there.
You can also comment on theYouTube video, which is on my
Cawnawyn Mor channel for right now.
That's where you can listen toall the Pagan Parenting podcast
episodes or, you can also email us.
At our new email, which isstarsandsproutspodcast@gmail.com,
(45:16):
would love to hear from any of you outthere, what you're doing with your kids
around this time of year, how you'rereflecting if you have any questions
for us wanna know any resources.
And then if you have any suggestionstoo for future episodes to cover.
'cause this is only the beginning.
We have a whole journey ahead of us.
Annette, thank you so much for joiningin on this entire journey, and as we go
(45:36):
forward, I cannot wait to have lots moreconversations with you, getting very deep
into all forms of paganism and parenthoodand connection to the earth and the stars.
Thank you all so much for listening andfor joining us today on this episode.
New episodes will bloom with thewheel every Sabbat and in between.
And until next time, keepgrowing wild rooted and radiant.
Welcome to Stars and Sprouts,a Pagan parenting podcast
where magic meets motherhood.
I'm your host, Cawnawyn Mor, here toexplore the sacred, the cyclical, and
the soulful path of raising childrenin rhythm with the earth and stars.
(00:30):
So today is a very special day.
Welcome i'd like to introduce youto my co-host, Annette, and she
is a fellow pagan mama, a naturelover, an earth honoring soul, and
I cannot wait for you to meet her.
Hi Annette.
Please introduce yourselfto our lovely audience.
Hi everybody.
Oh my goodness, Cawnawyn,I'm so excited to be here.
I'm so happy to have you finally.
(00:52):
I just, , started as a fan girl soto be on the other side of the mic
with you talking about these topicsthat I'm so excited about is really
so special and I just can't wait.
We've been dreaming this up for awhile now, so to finally be in the
first recording Zoom room together,I'm so stoked to have you here Yeah.
And be in presence with you.
(01:13):
And we've had so many incredibleconversations up until this
point, and so now we've made it.
And so we're, so
we've made it
excited to share this all with you.
Yeah.
And much has happened in thosein between moments that I think
we're all necessary to have likea really potent conversation now,
oh my gosh.
And for you especially, you've had somany changes in your family too, and
just the time that I've known you.
Yeah.
Isn't that wild Time is so strange.
(01:35):
Would you tell us a little bit aboutyour family and about your path and
how your spiritual life has evolvedalongside your motherhood journey?
Yeah, absolutely.
When I think of family, Iactually think of my parents
and how I grew up as a child.
And my household was prettysecular for most of my youth.
My mom came from a Catholic backgroundand my dad a Protestant background,
(01:56):
but they both explored Buddhismtogether and my dad actually chanted.
Twice a day, every day.
And an ancient Chinese dialectNichiren Shōshū Buddhism, it's
commonly practiced in Japan.
And so that was, eyeopening.
Not every suburban Philadelphiankid had that growing up experience.
He's now a Baptist, and yeah, I guessit just made me open-minded enough,
(02:16):
but, oh my goodness, my poor sixthgrade teacher, Mr. Burns, I distinctly
remember coming up to my teacher.
I have a bad habit of kinda likethrowing myself upon people to
like get some sort of, answer.
And I told Mr. Burns like, I wanna starta religion about like rocks and trees.
And so that kind of implies that I didn'tknow that that was actually viable already
existing very traditional thing despitemy, you know, super open-minded household.
(02:39):
So we traveled as a familyin just the United States.
And those were very like naturebased trips and had a lot of
exposure, to travel and being placesthat were about the landscape.
So, that groundwork was always there,but it, it's been a long time coming and
I'm kind of slow evolution to get to aplace where I would call myself, a witch.
(03:00):
And so now you know, I'ma parent of two girls and.
I have husband, and Iguess that's my family now.
My new nuclear grouphere, still adjusting.
the establishment of that family isvery much parallel to my timeline
of claiming a title of witch my gradschool years was when I was like
really starting to explore this.
(03:20):
And that was also when my relationship wasforming and deepening with my now husband.
So yeah, it's sort of justco-evolved and they've related to
each other mostly unintentionally.
I so resonate with you about having thatreality check of like, oh wait, my nuclear
family now is like my kids, my husband.
Because yeah, I, I still think of familyalso as my upbringing in a large way.
(03:42):
Remind me, what, what, what didyou go to your undergrad for?
I studied engineering actuallymaterial science, engineering and
biomedical engineering because I amstill kind of obsessed with trying to
understand like the root of the thing.
I've been turning over all thestones looking for that answer.
And I feel like I'm actually starting toget answers now, which is really exciting.
I feel like is such acommon thread, right?
Amongst many witches.
(04:02):
I know.
We have this like insatiable curiosityfor the why and the deeper why.
Not just the, well, this iswhat our answer was told.
No, actually we need to feelthat for ourselves and know
that internally for ourselves.
Yeah.
I think that that searching for thewhy is something that we all share.
That's like really driving so many ofus who have a spiritual path, especially
a spiritual path that we're forging.
Right?
(04:22):
Like not to.
Imply that, or assume thatwe all have authority issues.
Right?
But like,
I kind of think we do.
I think we do, I think we do.
I feel like that's like a, apassed down, like generational
trauma that we've all inherited.
But, you know, negativityaside, like just authenticity
to feel it, to really feel it.
You know, I think it hasto be kind of discovered.
I think it all just builds.
I feel like we're always spiralingtowards our understanding.
(04:45):
Gotta kind of go here and there.
There's these inflection pointsthat, you know, maybe kind
of stand out and remember.
Sometimes there's a momentof kind of like revelation.
I often look back and sort ofwonder why I didn't know it before.
Why didn't they teach us this in school?
Looking for kind of a lot of blame.
And more recently I'm thinkingthat revelation is such a
profound and powerful moment.
(05:05):
Why am I resentful, you know,of having discovered it.
Like the act of discovery is so profoundand like holds so much of the meaning
and the motivation and that kind of likeinternal shifting work it's a blessing,
it's a gift and to kind of have to workfor it and to earn it and to come to it,
with all of these years of experienceand perspective and therefore be all
(05:27):
the more profound is like so great.
It's been changing the wayI look at my, upbringing, my
parents and, and all of that.
Yeah.
I do think we have to do some likeserious internal and shadow work to like,
recognize that it is a blessing, right?
To see past the, like, judgmentof ourselves, of like, why
didn't I get there sooner?
And that recognition of like, oh,things are meant to be this way.
(05:47):
It feels.
Very like divine in the sense it'slike, oh wait, this, all these
steps have amassed at this point.
But you have to like be willingto accept the gift of that.
And not all of us arequite ready for that.
I'm curious, you mentioned the spiralingand how this has all taken shape and
shifted and how recently some of theseshifts mentally have been occurring.
Do you find that this has kind oftaken place as you become a parent?
(06:08):
And what other surprises have you seen inyour spirituality since becoming a mother?
Yeah, so like I really thinkparenthood is a crucible.
I mean not everybody's experience ofparenthood is the same, obviously.
And what I'm getting at there is that thedemands may not be equally distributed
among either partner, assuming thatit's two people, which it can be any,
you know, flavor and combination.
(06:28):
But but like, just that theburdens frequently fall primarily
on one person, especially inour sort of like modern culture.
I could say a lot about that, but I won't.
That's for more episodes in the future.
That's more episodes.
More episodes, yeah.
But yeah, like breastfeeding.
Oh my gosh.
It's an enormous amount of work andso when you're under that kind of
all the time demand, I think thatthat really distills things down
(06:53):
like that pressure clarifies desireand belief in a really big way a
new thing that I'm thinking about.
So similar to like Revelation being likean opportunity for joyous, savoring,
I think that this feeling I often havenow where it's like, I can look at my
family and my obligations, financialand otherwise, and sort of see how these
(07:14):
are like tethers upon me and ones thatI've chosen but actually I think that
with that tether, that holding back andthat peering over the edge, you can play
with possibility and you really feelthat continual, pressure, to strive,
I was plagued by indecisionbefore I had kids.
And just the act of doingsomething felt so magical.
(07:35):
'cause I had to like surmount theseamazing hurdles of inertia now.
Like you're constantly doing something andnow the tension is not about like a just
get off your butt and, like do a thing.
It's, it's like, oh, I can't,I can't quite get there.
But it's a striving andthat momentum is there.
And yeah, so I, I think that for me,and I wonder if other parents are
(07:56):
feeling this out there, it is an extremeclarifier, an accelerator of personal
development and spiritual development.
And even just like looking atyour kids and being like, wow,
you just came out that way.
Like, how can you be, unmovedby that and seeing that, it's
just mind blowing and I love it.
I love that you brought that up.
I feel like creatively I so resonatewith that I know in the past I've had
(08:18):
some conversations with Gemini from Witchspace about just like how everything
has to become really practical becauseit, like you said, clarifies it down.
Like, what do I really care about?
Like, what am I reallytrying to get out of this?
But even in music school when I went forconservatory, they talked about like,
putting yourself in a box creatively isfar more generative than just be given
an open prompt to like create anything.
(08:38):
Like, well, what do Ipluck out of thin air?
Whereas yeah, frictioncreates fire, right?
And so all of that friction aroundtrying to cram things in and
do, you have to be so decisive.
So I love that you brought thatup because I really resonate
with that on so many levels.
Parenthood is a challenge that like youcan really rise to meet should you so
choose and like allow it to evolve you.
So much beyond whatever you thought waspossible and like you had capacity for,
(09:01):
and you can actually really kind of seewhat you're made of in that process.
Yeah.
So you've mentioned a little bit aboutearth-based practices and I'm just curious
like what your sense of earth-basedspirituality and connection with the
land, what that means to you and likehow you work with that in your own
practice, if you'd be willing to share.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean that's actually changing, Idon't know, every day a little bit.
(09:22):
As I have another experience, it opensanother door what I guess I'm calling my
religion in many cultures and histories,like wasn't considered religion, right?
It was just like daily life like.
Sort of indigenous people acrossthe world had frequently had these
relationships with land where, what wemay now think of as inanimate objects
(09:42):
had consciousness and had sovereignty.
And so it's really just that.
It's like, I'm gonna talk to thesetrees and these rocks, you know,
and let them talk back to me.
It's like pure just what feels right.
And it's nice to look to othertraditions just to understand
kind of what are the patterns thatother people have picked up on.
And I do think that there's somethingabout things that people have done
(10:04):
repetitively, said repetitively that canbe, kind of generative in its own way.
Blessed Be, do I feel like thatphrase, you know, really carries
like a lot of magic in it.
Well I think it's magic has been kindof earned and imbued by so many people
saying it with an intention over time.
Can I feel it really in my body asbeing true or does it maybe have some
(10:28):
root in history so I grow, plants.
I've been studying herbalism was able totake an in-person class on energetics.
That totally opened my mind.
And I listen to plants and Ireceive messages from them.
And I think anybody can do that.
I think it's a skill that anyone candevelop and if you're interested.
(10:48):
You know, you're in the right place.
' cause I am very much lookingforward to talking about it.
I can't wait because this is so an areathat I am not, like, I didn't come into
witchy-ness through the herbalism door.
I came in very much through the astrologydoor, hence what this podcast was named.
Stars and Sprouts.
Yes, absolutely.
Because it felt very much like ourtwo minds in union together and
(11:09):
bringing in that like as above,so below energy to this as well.
What's so cool, I feel like so muchof what you're talking about mirrors
what I've listened to a lot of, likethe Norse artists that I listen to,
like through Wardruna and Heil ung talkabout like animism and their beliefs
that, everything has a consciousnessand like that interconnection with, all
plants, animals being rocks, energiesand how interconnected that feels.
(11:31):
And it's not like the straight cutand dry thing, but they're looking
toward these historical references and.
Gaining that knowledge and meaning.
And then what you said aboutBlessed Bee kind of reminded me
almost of like an where we've putin so much collective energy into
Right.
A word, right.
Or a being.
And that's what gives it its power,then it kind of has a life of its own,
which is its own interesting concept,which I'm sure we'll dive into also
(11:53):
because those are the kinds of thingsI want to nerd out about with you.
Now with kids, right?
So how are you kind of applying thesesame practices and are you, taking
any of these things that you'velearned in herbalism, maybe through
your class or just through your owncuriosity and how are you involving
your kids if you are into your practice?
Yeah, you know, I think it's kindalike what Gemini said, where it's
(12:13):
like, I'm a pagan parent because I'mPagan and I happen to be a parent.
It's not like I am, bringing them alongwith this like sort of magical journey.
But kids are very perceptive.
And so just doing anything in front ofthem inherently is doing it with them.
My medicine making, you know, oh,we're gonna pick these flowers.
So I have oil infusion of St. John'sblossoms and, a percentage of the flowers
(12:36):
in there were picked by my toddler.
We did that together.
She helps me make my teasand, some cooking together.
you know, you just, In little moments,you pepper in something about the plant
or, you kind of ask their opinion aboutthis or that let them taste these things.
And I'm hopeful that thesesmall things will add up and.
(12:57):
You know, add up to what, youknow, what is it all about?
Why, why does it even matter?
I really think the goalI have is a noticing.
I wanna sort of teach awakeness,you know, that observation.
Kids are obviously pretty intuitiveall on their own, but I also really
think there's something aboutbelonging that I want to impart.
And so it's not just about belongingto our family, which is so small and
(13:17):
so limited, you know, we can only doso much and be there in so many ways.
But they really belong to the earthand they belong to the plants.
, Dr. Robin Wall Kimer, who wrote BraidingSweet Grass and the service Berry.
Talks about species loneliness.
And I just, I see that everywhere.
You know, I feel like somuch of the dysfunction
mm-hmm.
Is in conversation and like, sort oflike the public discourse is like,
(13:38):
oh, you're just, you're so lost in ahuman centric world and really don't
need to spend so much time there.
I think belonging doesn't just comewith hugs and kisses, it comes with
responsibility I think Cawnawyn inour generation, were kind of really
getting slammed with a lot of like.
Environmental crisis news.
humans are so detrimental to theearth and there's really no way to
be without being destructive and,and letting 'em know like, actually
(14:01):
your role here is to be a steward.
And we have that power toactually augment this world.
Yes.
That's so beautiful and so true.
Oh my gosh.
Earlier we talked about like that sortof through line of wanting to know the
why, that I really feel that, what'sthe need underneath that is that sense
of like, I belong to something biggerthan just myself and why is that
Right?
And I need to investigate that andto be able to expose young children
(14:24):
to something as profound as that insuch a meaningful, easy to grasp way.
Talking to plants, right?
It has like ripple effectsthat we don't even know.
But it's gonna change their psyche,especially when they're so young, like
three years old, like both of our kids.
And so, and even younger than that too.
Right.
Has anything that you've evershown them, created a reaction
that you were surprised by?
Like, did they ever say anythingthat you're like, whoa, you
(14:46):
are picking this up, or, yeah.
Yeah.
I've asked my three year-old a few times.
What does that tree say?
Just to see, you know, kind of like,oh, like, do you ever see things?
Do you ever just, every here and there?
I'll ask something like that.
But but no, I think the thing thatis coming to mind for me is like many
toddlers, she'll wanna like, pick a floweror a leaf or whatever, and I'll just kind
(15:07):
of say like, oh, did you ask permission?
Or even more effective.
I'll just say like, oh,we'll just say hello.
And she does, she gets reallyexcited and she's like, hello.
You know?
Just really, engagesand gets more out of it.
Like, I think , the act of pickinglike really what is being desired
there, might be sort of a connection.
(15:27):
And so being told like,oh yeah, you can connect.
Here's how you do it.
You just say hello, you know avertedmany a tantrum with that and not, I'm not
saying that's gonna work for all kids.
My kids are maybe notthe most tantrum prone.
We'll wait and see on the secondone, but the first one I mean she
obviously, she has her moments.
Woo.
We need a nap every now and then.
Yeah, I've tried using thattactic and it definitely works.
Okay.
I like have you asked permission.
That's good.
(15:48):
I, I'm gonna steal that one.
See if that works.
' My uh, baby winter might actuallyrespect that a little bit more.
Be into that one.
Yes.
I have one last question for you,to get to know you a little better,
and that is what is your spiritualpractice teaching you right now?
Well, I feel like I'm on this likerollercoaster and speed racing path
of change in revelation recently.
(16:09):
So I've been thinking a lot about timeand something I've noticed for myself
is that I'll be kind of fixated onsomething conceptually and then some
amount of time later it'll like kindof lock in and I'll be like, ah, yes.
Like, I understand, or I believe, thething that's sort of in the conceptual
space right now is that all time isright now, time and sort of all past time
(16:30):
and all future time is right now, time.
I guess the significance there is thatthat is the way in which we connect to
our ancestors, which means that thatis also the way that we connect to our
children's children's children, you know?
And that lineage going forward.
And I think there's a lot of emphasison ancestor work and, exploring
(16:50):
what is lineage work, you know,and what does that look like?
Yes.
Truly we should have like a whole episodejust on that alone and bringing that
practice in with kids, but also, yeah,that recognition 'cause the whole notion
of time is like, I mean, it's one humansare certainly still trying to figure out
and also it has, a much greater meaningwhen you consider the lineage of being a
(17:11):
witch, of the lineage, of being a paganand like how so much of our attention is
turned backwards, but then also creatinga beautiful earth for like going forwards.
I'm so excited 'cause you are here andyou are bringing such like a steady,
grounded rhythm to this podcast.
So thank you for agreeing to be my co-hostand coming up with ideas with me and
I think this is gonna balance out my,astro babble like airy fire-ness a lot.
(17:35):
So thank you.
'Cause we need all theexpressions of magic and,
well, I have no shortage of wordsas well as you clearly can see.
So,
hey, I'm, I'm all for it.
We're only at the very beginning of thispodcast, which is wild for me to say.
'cause I feel like you and I havebeen discussing this for a long time.
So now that we're finally in thisbeginning place, see all of time
wrapped into one experience andnow we're gonna move forward.
(17:59):
So the main thing we wanted todiscuss today is the current holiday
season of Lammas or Lughnasadh.
This is the middle ofthe summer on August 1st.
So we're gonna move into a newsegment together now I usually
consider this to be called Lughnasadh.
Do you call it anything specificallyfor you or do you observe the holiday?
I'm curious.
I just say Lunasa I'm new here,I'm figuring out as we go.
(18:21):
See you guys we're all learning.
Yeah, it's definitely gonna be, thesewill be excellent markers in time.
'Cause.
Everything is very new.
Yeah,
great.
I love it.
Well, let's dive in to what we'redoing to celebrate this year's
Lughnasadh with our little ones.
I did mention we're gonna kind of use theWheel of the Year as a marker of time in.
(18:46):
Our podcast, but I'm not Wiccan andAnnette, you're not Wiccan, right?
So if you're not like super jivingwith any of these, the biggest reason
I wanted to use this was just becausethey're marking these points in
the year in a regular manner wherewe're seeing the seasons change.
I think we're here to just discuss howwe are working with these times of the
year with our families and with our kids.
(19:06):
And Annette, do you wanna start usoff and talk a little bit about how
Lughnasadh and the rhythms of theearth are kind of playing together?
Sure.
Yeah.
So obviously this is going todiffer depending on where you are.
But.
We're both in the Pacific Northwest.
And I've been thinking about, whatam I feeling that's really distinct
(19:27):
to this moment that wasn't trueat midsummer and is not gonna be
true, at that fall, equinox time.
And it just feels like anoppressively liminal space.
So , we're harvesting , certain plants inthe garden obviously have been yielding
for some time and others not yet.
This is maybe the last gasp momentwhere I am to sow seeds for some leafy
(19:49):
greens that could come in the fall.
So it's kind of this mixture ofboth harvest and your last sowing.
There's something about fire that'scoming up for me a lot right now,
and obviously it's very dry here.
I mean, Pacific Northwest, it's,you know, oh, the rainforest or, you
know, whatever mossy reputation is.
But there's really longstretches without rain.
(20:09):
And July and August are someof those longest stretches.
So things are crispy andthere's that potential for fire.
But there's also a lot of traditionalstories here about fire and salmon
and the salmon coming up riverand being called home by fire.
And just how that speaks to, earlyhigh harvest and an anticipation
of harvest and an anticipation ofa mass death that feeds the land.
(20:32):
And I'm, I'm kind of.
Getting that like peak around the cornerat some of those more fall flavored.
I I'm looking at you, Samhain,
oh my god.
I know.
I'm already excited.
I can't wait.
I'm feeling it too this year.
I don't know what it is.
Yeah.
Like it's something inthe wind or something.
I'm like, wait, Halloween islike in less than a hundred days.
Please.
I, let's just start now.
So not that I'm excited for death, butyeah, there's kinda like a let's get
(20:54):
on with it feeling that I'm having.
But the fire, yes.
Lemme stick with that.
So the, there's also the madone trees andthe, there're trees that look like fire.
Stilled, bright orange barkunderneath sort of peely layers.
And those are peeling right now andthey're shedding leaves right now.
and These are fire festivals, right?
I can see why that history is paired here.
(21:15):
You know, I always really look forwardto we have a blueberry bush outside in
our yard and it's been getting largerand larger and like the blueberries
and the lavender always come out likereally strong for us around Lughnasadh.
So now I always likeattribute those two things.
I know like a lot of Lammas culturebecause of the loaf mass is connected
to wheat, of course, and the firstwheat also, when you think of Virgo,
season too being associated withvirgin and the wheat and measuring the
(21:37):
wheat from the chaff and everything.
yeah, I always associate lavenderand blueberries with this time of
year and like look forward to thosebushes giving fruit and all the yummy
things that we make from that tosort of draw out the end of summer.
And I feel like here in the PacificNorthwest too, sometimes our summers
last until like October it feels like,and we have these beautiful lush falls.
But I love what you said about the treeseven now, like kind of shedding and
(21:58):
I had like the most visceral sensualexperience when you were describing that
and just like feeling and smelling it.
On August 1st, 2025 by noon Pacific Time.
The sun is at nine degrees of Leo.
I'm gonna put in a little bit of astrologyhere just to kind of talk about, kind
of wanna approach this from a parentperspective and just sort of give
(22:20):
an idea of what we might experience.
We're past that center point ofMercury retrograde, so we might
actually start seeing where the answersor the issues miscommunications.
Some things start to get resolved.
Clarity starts to return a little bit.
So I hope that is the case for you.
Something I did reallywanna mention though.
Mars is approaching its oppositionwith Saturn and Neptune, and this
(22:42):
is a little bit of a tough transit.
So as a parent, I'm looking at thisthinking, okay, so we have some coming
up against some sort of authorityin this transit because Mars wants
to go and move forward in Libra itprobably wants to go toward what it's
interested in, what it's curious about.
It maybe doesn't even know what directionit wants to go in, but it knows it wants
to move towards something that it likes.
(23:03):
Saturn in Aries is saying,no, no, I want this.
Like, actually I wantthis thing over here.
And so that could look likeyou as a parent figure being
like, we need to get this done.
In fact, we need to rush this 'causeit's Aries, it's Mars energy, so I need
to get, I need to get you out the door.
We have to go to, you know, whateverit is, your camp here, we have
to go to the bathroom something.
(23:23):
And that Mars is saying, no, I'mover here interested in this thing
and I care about this over hereand I really don't wanna do that.
And it might even look a littlebit Mars and Libra can look passive
aggressive in its shadow form.
Now whether our kids are gonnabe passive aggressive, that
probably depends on your kid's age.
I know my 3-year-old isn't really tooconcerned with offending me or not.
(23:43):
So he will be pretty directand blunt about that.
In fact, he might even be the Saturnin Aries saying, no, I want this now.
Mom, he likes to tellme exactly what to do.
The other day he straightup interrogated me.
He's like, mama.
You cannot talk to alittle brother that way.
A little brother is busywith something else.
And I'm like, okay.
(24:04):
But I'm mom has your, has your 3-year-old,like started lecturing you yet.
Yeah.
Her favorite thing tosay is don't be quick.
Don't be oh,
and don't be quick as code for any time Isort of move or speak with you know, tone
Uhhuh.
She has no, no patience for it, whichshe's a sensitive person and I'm
(24:27):
really glad that she's pointing outlike she can tell when I've shifted
into that sort of state of annoyance.
And is it annoying tobe called out for it?
Yes.
It's, but it's also helpful and adorable.
I know.
I'm always like, thank youand I'm still your mom.
I need you to do the thing,whatever the thing is in the moment.
But it's, it's good to like, sort ofshake us out of that seriousness when we.
(24:49):
Allow ourselves like totake the hint, right?
Yeah.
If you have the capacity to kind ofslow down and those really sweet tender
moments of asking the deeper questionsof like, what did the tree say?
Right?
Like kind of going to that place thatfeels not tangible, but like holds more
profound meaning here, Jupiter in canceris gonna last for this whole next year.
It's why I wanted to release starsand sprouts when Jupiter was in cancer
(25:11):
because it is such a beautiful, exaltedenergy connected with divine feminine,
with nurturing, with caring for,
so it's about getting more private,getting more safe, frankly,
your feelings are safe with me.
This space together that we're creatingis a space to be vulnerable and share
emotion and share struggles too.
So there's a lot of profoundtransformation possible.
(25:32):
There's this sort of tug and pullbetween this big performance and like
what are we doing on the outside thatis thinking fast and doing the thing
we want and getting it done immediatelywith this let's back off and slow
down and recognize, you know, maybe wecan take our time a little bit more.
We don't have to rush into thingsand demand that things be our way
in an effort to create a spacewhere like everybody feels safe.
(25:53):
So as a parent, I'm definitelygonna be kind of paying attention
to that in this season becauseI'm dealing with two headstrong
toddlers and it always is better.
Like when I can just like backoff of being, I don't know, boss
mom and I can say like, actually.
Time is abundant right now, and I don'tneed to force, you know, I can allow
for the space for them to just have thefeeling, or even just in the moments
(26:14):
that are really, really tough andthey're struggling, they're tantrumming
or whatever it is, like I'm strongenough to hold space for their emotion.
I don't need to also take thaton and let it like, blow me outta
proportion, get super fiery, right?
Because,
yeah,
I, being a fire sign, I tend tolike magnify some of those emotions.
It's something I'm reallyworking on as a mom.
It's like, no, I'm the adult andI can hold the space for them to
(26:37):
be upset and not also get upset.
What that's making me think of is whenI can feel my toddler kind of going,
off the rails with her emotions.
I leave my body like.
So I spend a lot of my, my timein my thinking space, like, like
right up here in my forehead.
And I like to reach out and engagewith stuff kind of in front of me.
(26:58):
And like, I'll just go with her.
I'll just go on that ride with her andthen I'm also like pissed or whatever.
So I like have to visualize kind of comingback into my body and actually really
being in the back of my body and the backof my mind and having that space, that
gulf between the outside of my body andwhere I'm choosing to sit in my own body.
(27:19):
And that is the distance that givesme time to decide how to react.
And that sounds great,but how do we do it?
And like, I can't do this all the time,but moments when I have felt that way.
Certain plants that have helped meget there are yarrow, which is very
protective and can kind of createthat boundary where you even just
(27:40):
have a sense of where you are.
Okay.
It's like, oh, here, I feel this edge and,and that edge is going to protect me and
give me that space and I can, move back.
I had a really profound experience withthat, with one drop of yarrow essence.
So that's like,
it's some pretty concentratedyarrow, you know,
Very little plant matter is required inthis, you know, no, flowers must be harmed
(28:01):
in, in the making of this experience.
I mean, you can really just,especially if it's a plant that you
start to have a relationship with,you can just think about yarrow
and, start to feel these things.
And also just thinking about trees thatlive for a long time, this moment feels
so hot, but the 300 year old cedar tree.
Could really care less, you know,so trying to think into that tree
(28:22):
that's, you know, down the roadthese are some of my little handholds
with plants in those hot moments.
Okay.
see this is why I knew wehad to do this together.
'cause now my brain's like, oh my God, andthis is the high side of Mars and Libra.
So you're like the stars and the sproutscoming together because it's really
that, like you're kind of talking likein a way about the detachment, right?
(28:43):
And it's not to be cold, it's notto cut off emotion, it's just to
cut off from like getting caughtin the fray, like you said.
Oh yeah.
No, but explain that to me again.
What planets are doing what right now?
So Mars, right, so I mentioned earlierMars in Libra, when it's in its shadow
form, it can be very passive aggressive.
Like it's aggression'cause it's Mars or action.
(29:03):
But it's done in a way that is maskingit with like, oh no, everything's fine.
'cause it's masking it with a Venutianbeauty, which is the sign of Libra.
But actually Mars in its high formwhen it's in Libra is the judge.
And what does the judge do?
It's able to step back and detach fromthe situation to have that objectivity
and then act on behalf of a greater good.
And so Mars in Libra is justice
(29:25):
and what is true justice like in the form?
Oh, this is good too.
I'm having like personal hits right now.
not even Libra season, butlike, I feel like this is very.
Potent right now, just in general, likein a collective sense, but that whole
sense of like acting in the judge ofLibra, the judge expression of that and
seeing the sides for what they are seeingthe situation with this level of, I'm
not getting caught up into the drama.
(29:46):
I'm able to assess it andbring together all sides.
And it's not necessarily going toaffect me one way or the other, but
like I'm balancing the whole situation.
' cause so much of Libra energy can easilyslip into I'm dependent on this person's,
opinion or belief or, problem or crisis.
And the high side of Libra is saying,okay, I see that and I'm able to
(30:09):
act in accordance with that, but I'macting on behalf of a greater good.
' Well Lughnasadh time is one of my favoritetimes and frankly it's because I am a Leo.
I was gonna say, I was like,I see stroke your hair.
Like Yeah, because it's me.
My birthday is like rightbefore this, so it kind of feels
like it's all part of that.
But I didn't know about it until I becamea witch, which was pretty recently.
(30:32):
So to find out that there was like aSabbat that was so close to my birthday
and like I always associate this with funand games and fire and just like Leo Joy.
I know a lot of people observe the eight,eight phenomenon on the Lionsgate portal,
and this happened so closely with that.
But like, thinking about the courage,the strength, that like idea of what a
lion represents in human consciousness.
(30:52):
To me Lughnasadh is that time andI just kinda lump it all in with
what I'm already going through.
So it feels like my own sense of renewal.
But how have you interactedwith this holiday, if at all?
You know, I was doing a lot of reflectionleading up to this episode and I was
remembering how I have like a, a reversedseasonal depression or something.
I get pretty low in the summer andI feel like it's around this time.
(31:15):
so when I was, you know, thinkingabout like, well it's kind of this
liminal, fire festivals are oftenassociated with the other world.
And I'm like, was Ijust tapping into that?
I'm like, I don't know.
'cause I really love Samhain.
I mean, that's myfavorite time of the year.
Like, what is it about?
It's like, oh, maybe Ijust wasn't as productive.
You know, a lot of my self-worthis like tied up in productivity.
So that kinda like depth ofsummer, you know, you're not
on a scheduler routine as much.
(31:37):
And then one of the images thatcame to mind is like a heavy bow,
like weighted down with fruit.
You know, like there's like asaturation in this moment, I think.
And so yeah, kind of a, maybe a darker.
Or maybe it's just slower.
It definitely has adrone to it or something.
I haven't lived into a lot of traditionsaround these points of year, I don't
(32:00):
have like a lot of history to call on.
It's sort of just this vagueHmm, I used to feel this way at
this time and, that might change.
One of the most favorite things aboutsummer is when it's warm at night
and you can kind of go outside andthis was more of a thing on the East
Coast where it was humid and the skywould feel kind of low and you'd kind
of go outside and feel like you wereinside there was like a safety there.
(32:20):
And everything was available to youeven in the middle of the night.
Maybe that there's somethingabout courage and lion with that.
I don't know.
But I think we're in the thick of it here.
I feel like we're on the precipiceof something after this point.
We'll start feeling the fall creep in.
And I think for traditions that Iwanna cultivate really are about craft.
' cause Lugh, the God Lugh islike multi-talented, right?
(32:41):
So the games Absolutely.
That would be so fun.
And then also craft and I are somethingabout like a basketry or, fabrics
I have stems from Fever Fewthat are like this crazy
iridescent purple at the bottom.
And then my St. Johns word stemsare like this vibrant orange red.
I don't really know what I amgonna do with them, but I really
(33:02):
wanna do something with them.
Oh my God, you should.
Yes.
And then we'll post it.
Yeah.
I was taking pictures this morning and Icould not get the color to come up of the
stems as they are of the St. John's wart.
I have a bias, right?
I have the Leo birthday, so like
Yes, you do.
I have like the joyous aspect around this.
In fact it kind of threw me ifyou're familiar, most people you
(33:22):
know the Vivaldi seasons, right?
And his summer?
Nope.
Oh no.
Okay.
I think if I played it, Ifeel like you would totally be
like, oh, I know what this is.
Oh, oh, oh, okay.
Music.
Yes.
I'm, I'm sorry.
I know I like jumped.
Sorry.
I'm like, I have no ideawhat constellation that is.
Just be ready.
We're gonna hop around a lot.
Yeah, so Vivaldi seasons in his summer,it's like very, like slow and languid.
(33:43):
And even think about like whata lion, like a lion sleeps.
At least the male lionsleeps a lot, right?
I mean even the, Taurus Bull too, if wethink about the middle of Taurus season
and how like, I mean I always think ofFerdinand the Bull like with his flowers.
Like there's an immovablequality to fixed signs.
Of course they're fixed.
And so I think about likehow slow a lion moves.
And I remember the first time Iheard Summer by Vivaldi, I was like.
(34:05):
That's not summer, like summer is joyousand it should sound more like spring.
But then, yeah, the, the oppression ofheat too can really suck energy out of us.
And I love what you saidabout the nighttime too.
That's one of my favoritethings about this time of year.
Like I love being on my deck with theTwinkle lights and just like having
it be kind of that liminal spacebetween, you know, day and night and
twilight's just my favorite time of day.
(34:27):
I think it's beautiful.
And Twilight lasts for so long here upin the Pacific Northwest, I feel that
like in between space to me it's alwayslike, that's a magical time and so I
get like pumped up and jazzed about it.
But I totally understand where like now inmy later years just kind of feeling like,
oh yes, there is this, like what is time?
There is no schedule.
Like there's no regimented anythingand it can just kind of feel like
(34:48):
we're waiting for something tohappen and for our energy to return.
I think because of that, to be honest,like if I reflect, I'm really kind of
bogus at traditions around this time.
Like as much as I wanna participatein games, it always just kind
of feels like I'm, you know,going this way, going that way.
Trying to figure out like,what are we gonna do tomorrow?
What are we gonna do next week?
I don't know.
And so there's this liminalquality to it that, especially with
(35:10):
kids, I definitely resonate with.
Yeah.
Like a preparation for what's next Ithink is already kind of on the agenda.
But you know, at the games, the gameswere, also ways to perform skill
for, you know, maybe deciding whathousehold you're going to be in for
the busy demands of the next few monthsof harvest and that kind of thing.
There was sort of a utilitariankind of gathering preparation.
(35:32):
Okay, how are we gonna organize ourselves,our resources, our people, you know
in that and, and this is thinkingfrom like, what we know of like Irish
traditional practice around this time.
So I think that that's fair to be, youknow, it's not necessarily like a trivial
game, and I think if I had infiniteresources, I would love to have kind of
like a little field day and a common green
(35:53):
mm-hmm.
In my neighborhood, you know, likea little block party type thing.
And just, you know, have that likesharing of food, sharing of resources,
sharing of parental oversight so youcan kind of relax for, a couple minutes.
But, well, actually, you know what?
I'll just tell my next doorneighbor and then it'll happen.
But I know myself, I would not beable to get that idea off the ground.
We've had a couple picnics throughoutthe summer that have been really, really
(36:16):
special, outside in the land and I'vealways needed to tell someone else
that idea and then they made it happen.
So I'll just have to do thatagain and get some games going
and, and maybe some crafts.
Yeah.
If Lughnasadh has a message formodern pagan parents, mamas out
there, what do you think it would be?
Well, this is less to do maybewith Lughnasadhs from like a, any
(36:40):
year, but like what you were justdescribing in the astrology and about
this tension of being rushed and notbeing interested in being rushed I
guess I just wanted to offer like.
Why are we in such a rush and the senseof importance of getting somewhere and
like who assigned to that importanceand, you know, what does it mean to
you to let go of that importance?
(37:00):
I wonder if maybe this season when we'retrying to, cultivate that objective
judgment, we can turn that eye to someof our other values and maybe free
ourselves from obligations that wedon't really need to keep carrying.
And you know what, to connect it backto what you said at the beginning was
like time is now, like the present time.
Why are we thinking about thenext season or the previous
(37:21):
season or where we have to go?
Being in that present place of like,it doesn't have to be anything.
It just can be and.
What is the rush for?
Like that objectivity, there'sa deep presence in that
and like 10 years from now, is itgonna matter that you were late,
that you were 10 minutes late?
Even if you were like chronically 10minutes late, even if you lost that job.
'cause you were chronically,you know what I mean?
(37:42):
Like, what is your kid gonna remember?
Is your kid gonna rememberthat stress of always feeling
rushed and the constant yelling?
I think that there's a greatervalue to letting go of that.
You know, caveats and asterisks there,there's sometimes it's really important
and sometimes that job is non-negotiable.
But yeah, I think having that10 year perspective, 20 year
(38:02):
perspective deathbed perspective.
Maybe we could just say likefive generations down the road.
I mean, like I,
I like to think onextremely long time scales.
All at once.
All at once.
Yeah.
It's a choice.
And so taking that pause and sayinglike, Hmm, do I need to be this way or.
Is there a different option?
I really love the idea that likethis time of year is like the earth
(38:24):
teaching us that wisdom of , Hey,actually you can be present.
Like you don't have toget to the next thing.
Time is abundant, you know?
Ooh,
we are here,
but I love, Samhain I wanna be there now.
I know we'll get there.
Okay, fine.
That's not to say it's not happening,but right now, and I really need this
reminder folks, because I've beentelling my husband for weeks that I,
(38:45):
all I wanna do is go shop for Halloween.
It's like watch Halloween, YouTube.
It's like my comfort thing.
And we are not even in Augustyet while we're recording this.
So I'm like,
oh my God.
But I'm so for that
need to be present, like
such duality,
enjoy.
I've been looking forward to summerall year and then it gets here and
it's like, okay, ready for fall?
Like so yes, thank you to our beautifulMother Earth for giving us this
(39:07):
season of presence and awareness.
And like I think to sortof round this out, right?
I mean this holiday ultimatelyis also about the recognition of.
The abundance, right?
Like seeing the fruits of ourlabor , and you know, participating,
in the labor together and recognizingour skills enjoying this time.
So I think it can be reallyeasy to sort of overexplain or
overcomplicate gratitude, especiallywhen we're talking with young kids.
(39:30):
And like, it's kind of an interesting,I don't know, from like my own
perspective, it's been really interestingtrying to explain that to them.
Where like, it's kind ofjust , needs had, needs met.
Like, you know, in terms of the mom sonrelationship in our family and to express
gratitude as something that like, I reallyfeel like has had to come from them seeing
us act as an example of saying thank you.
(39:52):
More a show don't tell kind of thing.
So around this time, of course, gratitudebeing so prominent of a theme and.
I know that I've talked previouslyon the podcast about I do the feast.
So the feast for Lughnasadh is gonnabe a big one, and I, I really prefer
to have this one outside if possible.
Because we do have the nice weather,so when I enjoy it and just be outdoors
(40:12):
together, enjoying the sunshineor maybe in the twilight hours.
And I try to just keep the gratitude,like really simple, but I also usually
will perform , the shortened blessings ofthe food and the drink for these times,
just so they kinda see me going throughthose motions and understanding like,
okay, there's something bigger going on.
It's not just like dinner outside.
there's actually a moment thatwe're taking to celebrate.
(40:32):
And a lot of my questions for themfrom about Solstice to now, like
winter solstice to now are verymuch about sort of the manifesting
of like, what are we going to do?
Lughnasadh says around the time that Istart switching into like the gratitude
of what has come and looking backward.
So that's kinda one of the waysI'm working with gratitude.
But I was curious about , howdoes one teach gratitude to their
(40:53):
children asking for a friend?
Yeah.
I think that when am I notthinking about John Moriarty?
Ugh, love him, please.
YouTube him.
He's an Irish philosopher,poet, writer, and he tells this
story about busy, busy mice.
And along this mouse's journey recognizesa series of other animals as great beings.
(41:14):
You know, what a great being andin the acknowledgement of the
majesty of these other animals he'sencountering there was great healing.
And I think that gratitude, you cankind of come at it and cultivate
it by just recognizing like, beautyand awe and that kind of thing.
And so I'd really like the idea of acouple poignant questions like you're
(41:35):
saying, and also just like a touch ofritual with some formal language to
sort of acknowledge a particular day.
But in general, I think conversationsabout like, isn't that just like
the most beautiful strawberry?
Mm. Yeah.
Like, isn't that just likethe most brilliant color here?
And I also like the idea of talkingmore about where things came from.
(41:55):
Like how do you think this got here?
You know by kind of going to plantsand places and more frequently saying
aloud like, oh, what a great being.
And just letting the rest,go off in their little minds.
Yeah.
But just posing that question, it'slike giving them the prompt, right.
And then letting them run with it.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
What a great being.
Just saying it.
(42:16):
And I think that that's maybe thedifference between saying and feeling,
you know, I can more potently, cultivatea, you know, a feeling of maybe it's
like a resonance, a frequency ofgratitude when I say what a great being,
what blessing, what awe, what, youknow, ridiculous deserved grace to
be in the presence of this tree.
(42:39):
Mm-hmm.
This blade of grass, this stone that'spressed into, a. Tar, which is ancient
other plants and animals, you know,like, nothing's mundane if you don't
want it to be, you can put that energy ofattention, of engagement towards anything.
just having that phrase and that noticing,
that awareness,
I think gratitude will come from there.
Yeah.
(42:59):
Yeah.
Okay.
I love, I feel like this came tolike such a beautiful circle where
like we talked about like thatquestioning why, and like going deeper
and then that need for belonging.
And then once that belongingis like, felt in the awareness
of wow, what a great being.
Oh, and then, and then thatonly asks like more questions.
Why?
I don't know.
I was just like, oh my gosh, whata beautiful, like, we've come to
(43:21):
this like gorgeous cyclical timeand I honestly feel like that.
Just so beautifullywraps this whole thing.
I'm just like so excited that youare gonna be with me on this journey
together and that we're talking aboutthe Sabbats, but also just like these
much greater more profound themes inquestioning all of our existence frankly,
and how that plays into parenting.
(43:42):
And then witnessing that sacredjourney within our own children too.
And then going through it also, whichthat in and of itself is a whole
conversation of the involvement.
You know, this
is making me think of another JohnMoriarty comment of you know, we can
experience our immortality, mortallyor immortally, but because we've
been given bodies, we experience itmortally and therefore exquisitely.
(44:07):
We are a life that has a limitedtimeline and we are shepherding
other lives this is our mortalchapter that we're engaging with.
And isn't it exquisite?
I mean, wow.
Mic drop please.
That was, that was exquisite.
And I just feel like that's all,that's where we need to end this.
(44:30):
'cause that was so perfectly,
that would be great.
So beautiful.
I'm having so much fun.
I have so thirsted for sharingthoughts for so long, so hopefully
someone actually listens.
It would be really fun tolike, have dialogue, you know?
Yes.
Well, hey, and any of you out there,I'd love to hear, we would love to
hear what you're doing to celebratethis first harvest with your family.
(44:51):
So you can comment on this podcast whetheryou go to your favorite podcast streaming
platform, and you can comment there.
I love it if you guys gave us arating so we can sort of move up and
reach more Pagan parents out there.
You can also comment on theYouTube video, which is on my
Cawnawyn Mor channel for right now.
That's where you can listen toall the Pagan Parenting podcast
episodes or, you can also email us.
At our new email, which isstarsandsproutspodcast@gmail.com,
(45:16):
would love to hear from any of you outthere, what you're doing with your kids
around this time of year, how you'rereflecting if you have any questions
for us wanna know any resources.
And then if you have any suggestionstoo for future episodes to cover.
'cause this is only the beginning.
We have a whole journey ahead of us.
Annette, thank you so much for joiningin on this entire journey, and as we go
(45:36):
forward, I cannot wait to have lots moreconversations with you, getting very deep
into all forms of paganism and parenthoodand connection to the earth and the stars.
Thank you all so much for listening andfor joining us today on this episode.
New episodes will bloom with thewheel every Sabbat and in between.
And until next time, keepgrowing wild rooted and radiant.
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