The Magic (and Mayhem) of Birth with Gemini from "Witchspace"

Cawnawyn and co-host Gemini from Witchspace share their deeply personal and candid birth stories, offering insights into the challenges and joys of parenting as a Pagan.   They also discuss the significance of community in motherhood, the highs and lows of spiritual practices with young children, and setting realistic expectations. Enjoy this honest conversation about the intersection of motherhood, witchcraft, and astrology.   Trigger warning: birth, trauma, described blood, etc. Birth stories are listed below in timestamps.   00:00 Welcome to Stars & Sprouts 00:28 Introduction to Pagan Parenting 02:13 Meet the Witch Moms: Cawnawyn and Gemini 03:51 The Realities of Parenting and Spirituality 12:51 Respecting Children's Autonomy in Spirituality 19:52 The Challenges of Pregnancy and Parenting 24:16 Birth Stories: Cawnawyn's Baby Winter Story 31:15 Birth Stories: Gemini's Baby Bat Story 40:09 Building a Supportive Community 43:59 Birth Stories: Cawnawyn's Baby Summer Story 51:30 Podcast Conclusion and Future Episodes   Stay tuned for educational episodes every three weeks, alternating between celebrations of Sabbats and enriching interviews with industry professionals.    Follow Witchspace on Instagram @witchspaceco and listen to the Witchspace Podcast with Gemini and Scorpio: https://open.spotify.com/show/2noeuqcAILZNYVe5wpT5Oc?si=d722cf8dc5574079   Follow Cawnawyn on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok @cawnawynmor for more music, astrology, and witchcraft.   Astrology classes, new podcast episodes, the Dark Moon Chronicle Blog, and music releases on cawnawynmor.com.   Music by C. A. Worden ©️ Smashing Ivory Productions LLC 2025 Violin - Jean-Philippe de Passos (via Musiversal)  

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to Stars and Sprouts.
A Pagan parenting podcastwhere magic meets motherhood.
I'm your host, Cawnawyn Mor, here toexplore the sacred, the cyclical, and
the soulful path of raising childrenin rhythm with the earth and stars.

(00:28):
So we are about to dive into thisepisode, and I want to just preface it
by saying this was the first episodethat was released on Witchspace
presents Pagan Parenting, which was theoriginal channel that the concept of
this podcast was formally introducedby both myself and Gemini, the host
of Witchspace, along with Scorpio.

(00:48):
So this episode was recorded over a yearago now, and I'm gonna go ahead and put
a little spoil alert up front, but Geminihas since had her second baby, so I'm
hoping to have her back on here to talkall things two kids together 'cause that
is something that she and I also sharenow and how her practice has changed.
But I love this conversation becausewe get into the nitty gritty of birth

(01:11):
and the mess of birth, but also thebeauty of community and motherhood
and exploring our own identitiesas pagans throughout this process.
So I hope you guys enjoy.
I am gonna just say there is alittle trigger warning 'cause
we do get pretty honest here.
Of course, this wouldn't be a motherhoodpodcast if it wasn't deeply honest, and
we definitely have our vulnerable moments.

(01:31):
So if you are somebody who's in thesort of raw, sacred time of just
after birth, and you're not ready tolisten to a birth story yet, please.
Take a pause on this one maybecome back to it another time.
If you do feel ready and you wannahear other birth stories like yours, or
you're just curious about what differentexperiences of birth might look like,
please feel free to listen and there'slots of other great stuff in here.

(01:53):
I'll put everything in the shownotes as well so you guys know
where that is in the time code.
So without further ado, I hope youenjoy this episode with me and my lovely
dear friend and co-host Witch Gemini.
Hi everybody.

(02:14):
I'm so excited.
I'm so ready to share this and I'mso ready to share you, Cawnawyn.
Oh my gosh, I'm so honored.
I was asked to share the experienceof parenthood because, oh my
gosh, what an experience it is
and I think anybody who's like seenyour Instagram sees how important
it's been for you in your journey?

(02:34):
Parenthood has changed my entire life.
Witchcraft has changed my entire life, andthey very much happened in the same era.
For me, being here in a place whereboth of them have come together in this
really awesome way and then being ableto share about that is just so exciting
and it's been really fun like, Openingup a little bit more about my journey.
I'm really excited to share witheverybody listening, everything that
we're gonna talk about and people we'regonna interview, and just these big

(02:58):
topics around parenthood and motherhoodand witchcraft all blending together.
Why has parenting become such abig part of who you are as a witch?
So, of course I'm gonna bring this.
I feel like this is just gonna bea theme in our show because we're
both total astrology nuts, right?
Yes.
So here we go like openingthe astrology door.

(03:18):
We've entered, so Ihave a fifth house sun.
My whole life I knew I wanted to bea mom, and then there was a period
in my twenties where I was actuallylike, no, I'm gonna be a girl boss.
I'm not doing the mom thing.
I don't want kids.
And then I had my progressedlunar return at around age 26
and was like, just kidding.
I need to be a mother, you know?
I'm like that's gonna be my Saturnreturn, we know what's happening.

(03:38):
Great.
Here's the plot line.
And sure enough, my son was born fivedays before my Saturn return went exact.
So he has the same Saturn as me.
Fun fact.
Uh, that's my first baby.
That's so cute.
So, and he's various Saturnian andhe has like a new moon on Saturn.
So this entire journey into parenthoodhas really come together through my
lens of astrology, which was my gatewayinto witchcraft in the first place, and

(04:00):
now standing on this side of it, havinghad two children and the spiritual
relationship that I've had to growwithin myself in order to like manage
everything and feel connected to myown body and connected to my role as
a mother has been so transformative.
Like I don't even recognize who I wasjust a few short years ago granted,

(04:21):
COVID happened at the same timeas a lot of this is happening and
everybody's like transformed a bit.
Yeah.
But I really, which I feel like, youknow, so many parents right now that
are new, like so much of our journeyis caught up with that whole story.
Absolutely.
Right.
Of, yeah.
The pandemic, I'm standing onthis side of it going like.
Everything has changed and in a reallybeautiful way and in a hard way.
I feel so empowered, but also humbled.

(04:43):
Like this morning I was cleaningour bathrooms because my
children had the stomach flu.
Right.
Like nothing humbles youlike cleaning a toilet.
Yeah.
You know, and so, but then at the sametime, like I get to like come here and
talk about witchcraft and motherhoodtogether and it feels like I'm on cloud
nine and it's just such a wonderfullyhuge experience of all the good, the
high, the bad, the ugly, the messy,

(05:04):
literally everything.
Yeah, literally everything.
We all have great plans when we'remothers and then we like realize like,
oh, those plans actually are not gonnabe what happened because my child is
like this other thing that like, welove them too, but you know, not what I
expected and so let's adapt and pivot.
It'll be interesting to see how many of myspiritual and like homeschool plans I have

(05:26):
that will like actually come to fruition.
But I think that's what I'm so excitedabout is being able to share the highs and
lows of that too, and that whole journey.
I have so many ideas for how I wannaincorporate Paganism in a safe way
for my kids and raise them with thoserelationships to earth and to their own
spirituality and how I can do that ina way that, you know, is empowering to

(05:47):
them and makes us closer as a family.
So that's what I'm really lookingto share, like going forward too.
And I know that when we've asked,you know, followers on Witchspace
the main channel, that's somethingthey're really interested too.
That's something that like, there'skind of a hole in the market in the
witchcraft community where there'sjust not a lot of like pagan parents

(06:10):
actually talking about what it'slike to be a parent who is Pagan.
Right.
I think the community is growing, whichis kind of cool 'cause I've been kind
of keeping tabs on it now for a while.
Mm-hmm.
And so I'm seeing moreopportunities pop up.
A lot of stuff around astrology of course.
I think 'cause course it's natural,like therapeutic method as well.
But it'll be exciting to see how thisgrows and progresses in the next few

(06:30):
years as the young community is reallygrowing and we're being exposed to more
than ever now of like different typesof witches and practices and cultures.
So seeing how that comes intoteaching children and raising a
family is gonna be really cool.
And one of the things that you mentionedthat I I think would be fun to sort
of talk a little bit about now in thisintroductory episode is Cawnawyn, what

(06:55):
did you expect Pagan parenting to belike before you were a Pagan parent?
Oh God, I think, uh, okay.
I had expectations more of myself,and I think this is something that
a lot of mothers and witches ingeneral can probably relate to that.
Like you have this idea that like you'regonna continue your spiritual practice

(07:15):
as is through motherhood, and then itlike goes out the window because oh my
God, you have this tiny dependent humanto completely take care of and like
there's no time for yourself and thenyou have to like rediscover who you are.
Now having changed.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
So for me, a lot of theexpectations I think were set up
around my own spiritual practice.
But in terms of like actually relatingit to motherhood, I think a lot of people

(07:36):
have really gorgeous, beautiful ideas forlike in pregnancy, what we do as witches.
Mm-hmm.
Like how we interact with crystalsand our water and are communicating
with the unborn child and meditatingand like I tried to some of that.
It's not that I didn't even attemptit, and I'm proud of myself for
like doing that because pregnancywas really difficult for me.
Um, mentally and physically.
I did the best I could, but I also feellike I'm glad I didn't stress myself

(08:00):
out too much, trying to incorporate toomuch because the whole process in and
of itself was like pretty difficult.
And now as a parent, I'm incorporatinglittle pieces where I can manage
responsibly and like easily,effectively, I guess with my kids.
But it's not been this likeday one, my children are like
surrounded in their crystals andlike we cleanse the house together.

(08:22):
And I actually talked about this alittle bit on my blog, which I've
been trying to post a bit more about
my parenting and like a more candidlook at that on cawnawynmor.com.
For the most part, a lot of it hasbeen very much like journaling and
make the mundane as magical as I can.
That has, at least for me, become thevery much practical way of doing things.
And I know you've said this tooon previous episodes where our

(08:44):
magic had to become very practical.
Like if it
Very practical.
Yeah.
Which I would love to hearhow that's gone for you too.
'cause I know you know, talking nowkind of a year later after our last like
crazy interview about this, how it'schanged for you too another year in?
It's so funny because like whenI think about it, I really kind
of think that I had no intentions

(09:07):
Yeah.
Of being a pagan parent, like.
Like I, obviously, I have a child, Iintend to parent and I am a witch, so
I intend to be Pagan, but I feel like alot of times I am trying not to do it.
Mm-hmm.
I'm trying, I'm just like, I'm gonnaparent and I'm gonna be a Pagan and
I'll deal with them separately andit's really baby bat who's sort of
like, no, I'm interested in things.

(09:29):
I would like the things.
So I have like a crystal cabinet thatwe put in when we bought our house.
It's beautiful.
I'm obsessed with it.
They will always come over and be like.
Crystal.
Crystal?.
Aw
uh, no.
Those are expensive and dangerous and die.
But Scorpio,
not the mouth!

(09:49):
Oh my God.
And not the mouth.
Like up in the office I have Diop,which is like a copper based crystal,
and they keep wanting to touch itand I'm shitting myself every time.
We're good so far.
But Scorpio had gottenthem an angelite crystal.
I had like a carnelian that I knewthey weren't gonna be able to destroy.
So they have crystals now andthey can say, this is carnelian.

(10:11):
Well, you know, in baby speak, right?
This is carnelian, this isangelite, this is Moonstone.
The moonstone is oval shaped.
And that's kind of it right now, right?
Like they're interested in it.
I'm gonna let them play with it.
But I'm not like sitting down and beinglike, this is how Moonstone works.
Right?
Don't, I don't have the time.
Learn your runes.

(10:32):
Um, right now that I have my own kitchenand my own oven, for real, for real,
congrats.
I'm really back intolike kitchen witchcraft.
Love it.
Well, I'll try to get them to like,participate in baking, but it's
mostly I'm trying to get them toparticipate in baking unless like.
Here are what all of these things mean.
Mm-hmm.
If one day they're like, whatdo all these things mean?

(10:53):
I'm gonna tell 'em I'm activelynot doing it, and they're coming
and being like, can I do this?
Please?
And like, it's kind of they're choosingtheir own journey in that way too.
Yeah.
Because I mean, which I think isappropriate, I mean, especially when
they're that young, like you andI both have very young children.
Yes.
So, um, letting them only like get asinvolved as they wanna get involved with
whatever, you know, they're seeing, momdo I think is appropriate because we can

(11:18):
kind of gauge what's appropriate for themto actually be exposed to, and then from
there they're the ones calling the shotsand then it's not being forced on them,
it's out of curiosity, which is great.
So,
and you're spot on because when I thinkabout like the way that I've spoken
about this on the main channel previous.
I had a, I have really shitty pregnancy.
Like I was miserablepretty much the whole time.

(11:38):
Mm-hmm.
I didn't do any magic while I waspregnant out of like, respect for my
unborn child, but like my, my personalpractice has changed so much by
virtue of this whole thing that it'salmost like Scorpio's gonna kill me.
Don't listen to any episodes prior tome having a kid, because it's different.
It's not the same anymore.
I was listening to Witchspace when Ihad first like, I mean, it was literally

(12:01):
the very first podcast I'd everturned on in my life, and it was like.
Okay, what is this witchcraft thing about?
Like I should probably listen to some realwitches and I found your guys' episode
and like listen from episode one andjust like started in the very beginning.
It's like so bad.
No it was great.
I loved it.
Like, I mean, obviously I'm still hereand at the time it was like 2019 for me

(12:21):
and I was just stepping right into it.
It was so fascinating to hear thedifferent practices from witches that
we're like doing this full time andthen you and I kind of went through
the parenthood journey together.
Yeah.
Which is very cool becauseboth of our practices changed
like around the same time.
And so that was really awesometo go in that journey with.
And like, I don't know, I thinkyour guys' season one was fabulous

(12:43):
and knowing about all the booksyou went into is so important.
Yes.
So, you know, I, I found the entirejourney of that, like really enlightening.
For me the pregnancy I didhesitate as well to get the unborn
children too involved with magicbecause yeah, it's not consensual.
One thing you'll notice about any of theposts that I do, I will not post my kids'
face for like the same, similar reason.

(13:04):
I know you have the sametactic with your child.
So respecting their consent,respecting their privacy is huge.
I'm not here to indoctrinate my child.
I want them to have the religious.
Freedom, the spiritual freedomthat, you know, in a lot of ways
I was not raised with at all.
And so like, what does that mean?
It means keeping things very open andletting their curiosity guide them.
And that's, I think a beautifulpart about paganism is like, it's

(13:27):
kind of choose your own adventure.
Yeah.
In a way, you know, as long asit actually is like of to the
freedom of the practitioners.
Can you tell me more about.
I guess your like long-term plans'cause you've mentioned homeschooling,
you've mentioned a couple of things.
What does it look like for you?
What's your mission statement nowso that when we finish like three
years of this, you can look backand be like, none of that happened.

(13:48):
What happened?
So what I think I'm gonna kind of focus onin terms of the realms of pagan education
is around the sabbats 'cause I thinkit's the easiest starting point and it's
something to celebrate every six weeks.
So kind of following the Wiccanfield will of the year without it
being like overly Wiccan, becauseI'm not a Wiccan, I'm a Pagan.

(14:08):
So like really building thatrelationship to let's look at the
seasons and how the earth is changing.
Let's celebrate that.
What can we do to celebrate that?
I also wanna make sure that I'm talkingwith my kids in an ongoing conversation
the same way we talk about likestranger danger or food or whatever
about like energetic relationships.

(14:29):
So being able to observe when youknow somebody is draining their
energy or if they're afraid, like whatthey can do to protect themselves.
And so just like having thoseconversations, I feel like kind
of is in the woowoo new age realm.
Mm-hmm.
But you know, I think it's soimportant and these kids like
they, they have like these wild,crazy imaginations and there's.
So observant.
So being able to give them a languageto process these big feelings they're

(14:53):
having around different energies and likesee, you know, kind of the world through
their eyes a little bit and give themtools to navigate the stuff that like,
I can't necessarily see or feel, but Imean, from my kids' astrology, I'm not
gonna be surprised if I start hearinglike, Hey, this ghost, like, followed me.
Not in those terms of course,but like, I wanna give them
tools to be able to navigate.

(15:13):
Different dimensions, I guess, becauseI think it's a much more well-rounded
experience for a young person to beable to like interact with all these
things with a sense of confidence.
And so many of us, I think we're afraidof the dark we don't have any tools and
our parents just tell us like, stop it.
There's no monster under the bed.
Yeah.
Like why not give your kid a toolto actually navigate that with
an energetic center that's gonnaempower and strengthen them?

(15:36):
Right?
So that's kind of likewhere I see it starting.
Mm-hmm.
And then as it goes on,I really appreciated.
You guys did an episode years ago, youguys talked about witchcraft for children,
like not being appropriate until age 18.
Even in the coven that I used to bein, there was a clear rule about 18.
I never wanna like hide it becausethen it becomes special, right?

(15:57):
Mm-hmm.
Then it becomes like,Ooh, what's mom doing?
And.
And there's this whole like mysteryand, and allure around it, right?
And so I wanna be very open andclear, but not like, come and
do this ritual with me child.
Like, that feels soinappropriate, you know?
And so like answering thequestions, allowing them to
interact with the different tools.
I mean, my son has a tarot deckthat I let him play with because

(16:17):
he's gonna chew on it, he's gonnabend it, he's gonna throw it.
And I was like, he seesme working with cards.
He should be able to have his own,but I don't like read into it as much.
Yeah,
it is kind of fun.
Like internally when he handsme the card and I'm like, which
card do you pull for Dada?
Mm-hmm.
And then he pulls out like the devil card.
Hilarious.
Like I love it.
And then also like we go to the magic shopthat's local to us and I let him pick out

(16:39):
a crystal, like what's the harm in that?
I'm not making it some big.
Oh, you picked a tiger's eye.
Yeah.
And that's gonna mean this.
And we go, no, it's just a, it'sjust a crystal that he liked and
called to him energetically and he'sgonna hold onto it and feel cool
about it and like, that's great.
That's where we're at.
So letting them again guide it.
I think you're gonna come back in10 years and be like, I did that.
I hope so.
That sounds really cool.

(16:59):
And, and this is so fun for me becauseI don't think about these things.
And then you say them and I'mlike, damn, wait, let's take this.
Let's take some notes.
This is why we have this podcastis so I can in here and be like,
Cawnawyn, what are you doing?
I'm gonna write it in likea slightly different font.
I'm gonna change the words a littlebit so that I can get the homework too.
I love it.
That's great.
Please, everybody, copy,take whatever you want.

(17:21):
I wanna share the ups and downsof this 'cause some of it's gonna
go great and some of it's gonnalike utterly miserably fail.
I wanna be a resource that I can'tfind right now, so I might as well just
like write my own version of it andsee if it can be helpful to somebody.
It's just nice to have somebodywho, first of all I relate to, who I
share so much of the experience withjust have just say normal ass shit.

(17:43):
And I'm like, damn, that's so smart.
That's so reasonable.
What a reasonable person.
I don't feel when you say thesethings that it's like too woo woo.
And that's something that I'malways afraid of as like a
parent of a young child is like.
When is it too far?
And I think sometimes when you'reon Instagram, especially, like
everybody's a trad wife now.
Everybody's a tra wife making sourdough.

(18:05):
Oh God.
Not wearing shoes.
Right.
And it's like, do Ilove, do I love to bake?
Do I love to wear dresses?
Do I like certain trappingsthat are related to that?
Absolutely.
But I also need just a reasonableperson to be reasonable with me.
And, and I, this is what I'mgetting from you right now.
So I imagine I'm onlygonna keep getting it.
That's like so many of these accountsand that's why they're successful, right?

(18:26):
Yeah.
Like to their credit, like they're,they're turning their life into
this fantasy that we all can kind oflike join in the wow of, you know,
yeah.
And envision ourselves in this placeof, wow, wouldn't it be amazing?
But like for real, I hate sourdough.
Like, I'm never gonna be that mom.
Yeah.
I'm a yeast girlie
I'm like, to their credit,like, cool, good for you.
Awesome.
Do your thing.

(18:46):
Like, I love that for them.
That's great.
That's just not me.
So I'm, I'm gonna try to be as like,real about a lot of this without,
you know, stepping on my children'sprivacy, but I'm gonna have my own
version of a fantasy, I think becauselike, whenever we put anything online,
it's just that tiny percentage of theday and it's gonna be the highlight.
I'm certainly taking the things I'mlearning from resources online, from

(19:06):
parents that I admire and like tryingto incorporate that into my day with
some success and lots of failures.
But you know, that's what I hopeto share is like, okay, like let's
put this into practical terms.
Does it actually make sense?
Does it actually hold water?
Does doesn't actually work?
And we go from there and it canbe kind of this fun place of
experimentation together, liketwo high peak Gemini energies.
There's a lot of Geminienergy in this room right now.

(19:29):
I would like the audience to justknow that my hair is in a messy
zone and I'm wearing the highschool that I work at, sweatshirt
and Cawnawyn is like beautifullyquaffed with crescent moon earrings.
So like you're a little bit moreliving the fantasy than I am right now.
You're so kind.
Thank you.
But it's also like so niceto know that you can kind of
live the fantasy a little bit.

(19:50):
Sometimes it gets easier.
There gets to be a point.
And I mean, girl, you have it hard'cause you had two under two for a while.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For gosh, what was that like?
Seven months was 2 under 2,
that's basically 10 years.
There were days that felt like 10 years.
It's been kind of weird actually beingon the other side of this going like,
oh, okay, I can breathe a little bit now.

(20:11):
I can actually put the crescentmoon earrings on and like
feel like a witch sometimes.
And you know, I think that's somethingthat I so admire about you guys being
able to like continue the podcastthrough everything because you
get that outlet of your witchcraftand your practice and your theory.
And I think for myself,I've had it kind of similar.
I've been doing the communityrituals with Divine Warrior
witches and it's been every sabbat.

(20:33):
So I'm very used to like incorporatingthe Sabbats into my life as like, oh,
this is a sacred time of celebration.
And so I've been able to go andparticipate in a community ritual,
lead it with my friends who are mybusiness partners, and we put this on my
witchcraft used to be so private and like,
yeah,
in my room and in the middle I was ona graveyard schedule through a lot of

(20:54):
the pandemic and so like doing ritualsliterally at like three in the morning.
It was that time it was fantastic,but you know, that's, that's no
longer, I'm not up at three in themorning like doing my own thing.
If I'm gonna do a ritual, I'm probablyleading it in some sort of a community
form, and when you're doing that, there'sa level of separation you have to have
because you're still event managing.
It's not like you canjust be in the magic.

(21:15):
We try to as best we can, but I'msure for you too, I mean like yeah,
you're in your witchcraft, but it'salso for the purpose of Witchspace.
Yeah.
So, but having that like constantrhythm of this place you can tap into
has been so helpful for me at least.
It's kind of what keeps usin touch with that side.
I just hope that this show can alsoserve as something that like people

(21:36):
can tap into, okay, this is myspiritual time, this is my practice,
like I'm getting back in touch with,
yeah.
I wish that we had this, this pregnant.
I know.
Same right.
Oh my God.
So bad.
Can we just, just like send itback in the past for a little bit?
One of the things that we have in our,like what are some things we might talk
about is like pagan pregnancy and itwas so, it was such a bad pregnancy.

(21:58):
It was so miserable.
I was throwing up all the time.
I was tired.
I remember we read a book on the podcast.
It was like being pregnant as a Pagan, Iwas like, I didn't do any of this shit.
Yeah, I remember
I didn't do any of it.
I like you almost like are kind of meanto yourself about it, where it's like,
I thought that I was gonna do better.

(22:18):
I thought that it was goingto be more spiritual to grow
another person and it wasn't.
And it's nice to be.
If you're listening and you're feelinglike that, like, Hey guys, we feel it too.
You're not alone.
Like it's not abnormalor bad or your fault.
It like every day can just be, tryto get through one day at a time

(22:40):
and survive it a little bit 'causeyou're no less than growing a human.
That's a lot and it deserves its owntime and space to just be what it is.
It doesn't have to be anythingwitchy or like aesthetic or whatever.
It, it can just be like whatyou need it to be in the moment.
And if that's surviving and like throwingup and like getting out of bed for

(23:00):
water and the bathroom, like it's okay.
Yeah, I know There's so many womenwho go through pregnancies where
they're like truly just in bed.
They're stuck and they can't move.
I can only imagine what that wouldbe like, 'cause I thankfully was
never in a position like that.
I can see how that would be sodifficult to sort of figure out
your own identity within that.
And maybe there's some women out therelistening that have gone through pregnancy

(23:21):
or going through it and like do havethis wonderful sacred experience and
that's lovely and I'm so happy for you.
I'm so happy for you.
I'm with you.
Like where my pregnancies forme were really hard on my mental
health and physically I wasmiserable and I was so excited.
Like when I had my second 'cause I knew itwould be my my last kid because we've got
two and one for each hand and I'm good.

(23:41):
Thank you very much.
Love that.
Good night ladies and gentlemen.
I knew when I was like had him, Iwas so happy because I was like,
I'm never gonna be pregnant again.
And I think, you know, like you and I, Ireally think one of the conversations we
should have is like, around our pregnancyand like the ups and downs of it.
Should we share our birth story?
Like, is that a thing we should do or not?
We absolutely can.

(24:02):
Because I believe it's soa thing that everyone does.
I'm like, oh my God, are wegonna, are we gonna do that?
Like, should we do that?
Do you wanna do it right now?
Do you wanna go firstor do you want me to go?
I can go first because I have two.
So we can go in order of like,
oh,
that's fine.
That's so smart.
I can bookend you.
Is that, do we wanna do that?
Well, all parenting starts with.
A child.
This is true.
Yes.
You have to birth achild before, well after,
we'll rewind in a, in an upcoming episodeto like talk pregnancy specific, but

(24:26):
I'm cool with doing the birth story.
So my first, okay.
So, okay.
Everyone has a birth plan or maybeyou don't, maybe you fly like by the
see your pants and that's cool too.
I had a birth plan.
I have a Jupiter in Virgo in the sixth.
So my birth plan was likefull on spreadsheet, insanity,

(24:48):
color coded nonsense.
Like it was insane.
And it had like everybody's phone number.
It had like all the different like colorcoded meanings of when I start saying this
you like, it was, it was next level crazy.
And it's, 'cause I think I was just sohormonal nuts by the end of my pregnancy,
like it has to go according to plan.
So the plan was to give birth ata birth center, then, you know, go

(25:09):
home with my kid and be like happy.
And for the most part, actually alot of that ended up working out.
My son was born on imbolc thenight before or like the two nights
before I started getting laborpains and I was in bed, right?
My doula came over, which we'regonna have my doula on here she
is fabulous, amazing person.
Oh my goodness.
One of my, my dear, dear friends,and is also a high priestess of

(25:33):
a coven, which is pretty cool.
So she came over and spentlike the whole day with me.
I was able to labor at home in bed,which was like pretty gosh darn amazing.
And we went to the birth center.
We get there.
I'm so excited.
I'm tired.
Things are good.
I'm so stoked.
They measure me.
I'm only a centimeter and a half.
I'm like, oh my God.
Hate it.
But internally, I was like.
I thought it might be harder.

(25:54):
So, okay.
Like we have a ways to go.
So I go home, I take a nap andthen I wake up and I'm like,
things are getting more intense.
And then around like midnight, Iwas like, this had better be it.
Like we're going.
So we all got in the car.
My sister was with us for this one.
She came with us and waslike filming part of it.
But I told her like, under nocircumstances film anything private,
like I just want, like when baby'shere and like some cute pictures of not

(26:15):
anything like me in labor screaming,which didn't really happen thankfully.
So like candid.
'cause we might as wellbe candid on the show.
I'm in the bathroom and I hadjust like calmed down when I got
there and then I'm trying to goto the bathroom and I was like.
Oh my God.
I can't, like, I can't golike, what's happening.
And so my, I am start like, Iliterally start like shrieking.
And my midwife is like, what's wrong?

(26:37):
Are you okay?
What's happening?
And I screamed, I can't poop.
And my midwife says, that's not poop.
That's your baby.
And I said, no, it's not.
And I screamed back andshe's like, yes it is.
And so I like felt and I went, holy,there's a head between my legs.
Then at that point I was convinced.
I get back in the tub I labor.

(26:58):
I think I pushed for 40 minutesfor my first one, and he came out.
And it was like the mostbeautiful moment in my life.
Oh my God.
Like I'll be honest, it was so incredible.
I'm holding him.
We're all crying.
It's, it's so great.
I had horrible back labor, by theway, like a godawful back labor, so
I was in a lot of pain at this point.
I stood up because they werelike, Hey, you need to get up,

(27:20):
and my placenta fell out just.
And a ton of blood came out justlike I was bleeding like crazy.
Mm-hmm.
I know.
Were you expecting thisGemini, where you're like,
I'm obsessed with stories, so I love this.
So blood just like came out.
Oh my God.
I get on the bed, I'm like a littledelusional at this point, and
they're like, keep talking to us.
You're doing okay.
But I was losing a lot of blood at thispoint, but we were able to do a delayed

(27:42):
cord cutting and I was able to nurse myson and he took a little nap and hung
out with dad and at that point they werelike, okay, we need to call an ambulance.
So my, yeah, my butt ass naked.
No phone, no id, nothing.
Transported to the hospital.
Although there was this whole argumentin the birth center, they were like,
which hospital should we go to?

(28:03):
Should we go to this localone or this local one?
And everyone was liketossing ideas around.
I was like, just take me tothis one now, and they're okay.
I was like, could you just decide please?
So they cart me in and I'mliterally, like I said, naked, no ID.
no phone, no nothing.
And I'm just kinda liketrying to chat and be like.
Cool with these EMTs whowere like handling me.

(28:23):
They take us to the local hospitaland they're like, so, you know,
where do you wanna go for this?
And I was like, I don'tknow, I've never been here.
They're like, why did you pick this?
I was like, someone needed to make agoddamn decision, so I made the decision.
It was you.
It was me.
So we get to the hospital andthey had to do the whole sweep
thing, which was god awful.
And my sister, like, I thinkwas scarred permanently.
She didn't want kids to begin with.

(28:44):
So now it's like a done deal.
But she was there and like could be myhalf a brain, which was really nice.
And then my husband and my son werelike behind her on the way 'cause
she rode with me in the ambulance.
And what was crazy, it was COVID, right?
They get to the front office andwhoever the front desk person was
was like, oh, you can't both go in.
There's only one visitor.

(29:04):
So it's either you or the baby.
And my husband's like, he is hours old.
Like, let us in now.
He's so fresh.
You can't do that.
What?
Yeah.
My husband was ready to punch somebody.
It got like, but thankfully oneof the like doctors or nurses,
like overheard like, no, no, no.
Come here.
You're fine.
Like come.
So they met with up with me and thenwe spent the whole day and night.

(29:28):
In the hospital altogether, the threeof us, while, I recovered and my son
was not admitted, so I was able to holdhim the whole time and he, he did great.
He was amazing.
What was great was my husband, beforewe left, I was like, you need to
bring an extra change of clothesin case we go to the hospital.
And he said, nah, nah, we'll be fine.
Well, my son had pooped on him, we'dhad blood on him, he peed on him, and
he only had one change of clothes.

(29:48):
So boys, men out there, dads orpartners, whoever the hell you are,
bring an extra change of clothes.
Just do it.
Okay.
Because he had to spend 24 hours inthose godawful disgusting clothes and
like sleep on the couch in the hospital.
And also my sister.
I told my sister, my postbirth meal has to be sushi.
I need
a hundred percent

(30:09):
like copious amounts of fish.
Well, she bought it.
And it was in our car the whole timewe're in the hospital 'cause they
wouldn't let us leave 'cause it was COVID.
So I had like the worst hospitalfood as my post birth meal.
And so she was just in the carand it was just in the car.
It was so stupid.
Yeah.
For a day and a half it was disgusting.
That sucks.
Um, I ate it anyway.

(30:29):
Spoil alert and I was fine.
I am so happy.
You were fine.
I would not, that was fine.
Like totally risky, stupid, but I was thattired and hungry and, and you was great.
Give birth like you're Yeah.
Oh my God.
It's insane.
I came home and had my son introducedto my parents and we spent the next
week living on the couch 'cause we wereconvinced that our child would not allow

(30:51):
us to live anywhere else in the house.
Mm-hmm.
Um, second time around, I will tell youit was much different and that was great.
But yeah.
Before I go into that, that was myfirst story of my first, my first
beautiful Aquarius, which I think on,on this podcast, I will refer to him
as either Baby Aquarius or Baby Winter.
'cause he was born mid-winter.
Mm-hmm.
So spoilers.
But yeah, there we are.

(31:15):
I love.
Okay, Gemini, your turn.
It was like whiplash.
'cause you're like, I had the mostbeautiful birth and everything was
wonderful and I'm in a birth center andthen you're like, I'm in the hospital.
That's really how it felt.
I love that.
That is what we started with becausenow I don't feel so bad when I talk
about how, um, my birth was low key.
Traumatic
birth is traumatic.

(31:36):
A trigger warning do, when you readthe description, it'll say like,
where our birth stories are for me.
That's fine.
Yeah.
I had sleep apnea.
When I was pregnant.
So when you have sleep apnea, itmakes your blood pressure go up.
So I was told I had to be induced becauseI could direct quote stroke at any time.
Fine.
So I went in and I was inducedand it didn't really work.

(31:56):
And so then I was induced a secondtime and then it kind of worked
and I just had like the most mildcontractions for like a full day.
And I remember at the end of the day beinglike, so like when do I get an epidural?
Like this is annoying.
Is that a thing that we do?
Like what is that?
And a nurse straight up laughed at me.
She's like, girl, no.
I was like, okay, rude, fine, offensive.

(32:19):
I was in the hospital in the processof being induced for like three days.
Wow.
And my water had broken, just barely.
So by that third day, it was like, you'regonna have to get put on antibiotics
or you're gonna have to do a C-section.
And I said, there's no way on God'sgreen and holy Earth that I am staying
in the labor and delivery section ofthis hospital another goddamn day.

(32:43):
Stab me in the back.
Let's go.
Slice me open.
I literally think I saidto the doctor, fine.
Cut me open.
So I had a C-section.
Which was fine.
It was not my game plan, but I still,I don't really think I had a game plan.
Now that I'm like looking back on it, Ithink I just kind of was like, I'm gonna
do whatever happens and that'll be it.

(33:04):
Game plans get thrown out the window everytime anyway, so I do think, spoiler alert,
I could have had a, a better gameplan, like maybe, maybe number two
I will have a better game plan.
No pressure either way, honestly.
So I remember saying to my husband.
to Mr. Gemini, don't leave the baby alone.
Do not like you have to staywith the baby the whole time.

(33:24):
You need to know where the baby is becauseI'm like, this baby's gonna get kidnapped.
Yeah.
You swapped at birth.
Yeah, they're not, they'renot getting kidnapped.
They, they put a little thing onyou, they put a little bracelet
on you and everybody has the samebracelet and you all get scanned.
But I'm just like so itchy and I don'tget to nurse for like the first hour.
And I we're talking about thisi'm like, not everybody does that.

(33:46):
And if you don't like.
Oh yeah.
Totally reasonable tonot nurse in the first
completely.
Absolutely.
It was such a weird feeling becauseI had expected and I went into it.
Expectations are the bane of parentingis what I'm discovering right now.
Expectations are straightup the bane of existence.
Okay.
Just throw them out thewindow like so much.

(34:07):
I expected to have thislike beautiful moment.
I made a comment to a friend literallya couple of days ago where I said
having a kid is like the single mostspiritual thing I have ever done,
and it is like the missing linkbetween the divine and the mundane.
But I don't think I felt that until babybat was like a year at least, like I felt

(34:33):
very disconnected the whole pregnancyand through the whole birth process
that it was just sort of like, well,I'm here and there's, there's a baby.
There was no likebeautiful spiritual moment.
There was a lot of babies crying.
There was a lot of, uh, napping.
When you have a c-section, thenurses come in and they're like, you

(34:53):
need to fart more because like thegas will build up in your abdomen.
So they're literally coming inand being like, did you fart?
Did you fart?
Did you, burp, are youreleasing gas in any way?
It's like.
Well, I don't know.
Yeah, I can't tell it.
You've got stuff on my legs.
They put like these sleeves onyour legs to make sure that the

(35:13):
blood is moving while the leg.
Wow.
It was so weird and I don't wanna saythat it was like an out of body experience
'cause I was very much there, but itwasn't what I expected and it took me a
really long time to like process that.
Because I think, Ithought, this is insane.
I think I thought giving birth was gonnabe like easy, not like, literally, like

(35:35):
I knew it was gonna hurt and be harder.
Sure.
I was like, well, this is whatpeople have done for forever.
Right.
Like, I'm, I'm gonna do it.
Spoiler alert.
I didn't,
we have this like preconception that like,oh, it's a natural thing, so therefore
it's going to be a natural experience.
And natural means like seamless,easy, peaceful, flowing, harmonious.
No,

(35:56):
and like I went in, I broughtmy, like I have a big, I
call it my pregnancy crystal.
It's like a big rose quartz with likea hematoid thing in it, like right
where a belly would be on a person.
And I brought my statuetteof Hera and I was like, okay,
yeah, we're just gonna do it.
We didn't, we didn't do it.
We didn't.
We laid down and somebody else did it.
I mean, to your credit, you did do it.
Like you were the body thatgave birth and bravo and

(36:18):
they were evicted.
Yeah.
It was just a day is reallywhat my birth story was.
It was just a day.
It happened.
It happened.
I wanted to ask you too, 'cause Irealize I've neglected to mention this,
um, how many weeks along were you.
Oh, I was 39.
I made them, I was like, I'mwaiting as long as humanly possible.
Mm-hmm.
Because the doctor, the highrisk doctor was like, well, we

(36:38):
wanna do it at like 38 weeks.
And I was like, no.
Mm-hmm.
No.
And I, I truly think thatlike, baby, that wasn't ready.
Mm-hmm.
That's why baby that wasn't coming.
Like, baby, that wasgonna be in my head baby.
That was gonna be like 41 weeks.
Right.
Uhhuh the baby that was chilling.
Um, but I was not, I was notstaying in that hospital for

(36:59):
another week and a half, so
no.
I don't blame you.
The mother and baby ones are sonice and it's so like cushy and
comfortable labor and delivery.
They're like, yeah, lay onthis like piece of wood.
For three days and then have,
oh my God.
No thank you.
I feel like you and I are gonnaunpack both of our stories at
some point even further, whichlike we'll save that for later.

(37:19):
I feel like I learned somuch listening to you though.
'cause like my mother had C-sectionsfor both my sister and I and I didn't
talk to her a lot about like thedetails 'cause I just didn't know.
So like, I don't know.
That was a very enlightening thing.
Oh yeah.
No, we can.
So thank you for sharing
like an in depth conversation ata later point because it's weird.
Well, I think there's a lot of curiosityabout it in terms of the feeling and the

(37:41):
process and all the logistics involved.
Yeah.
Where like, you know, peoplethat are like afraid of.
Yeah, what this is gonna be like.
I remember, I think it was morefor my first than my second.
'cause I had the confidence, likeI'd done it before, you know, with
my second, but my first, I rememberleading into birth, I was so scared
because, and I didn't wanna be scared.
I wanted to be in this like placeof total like peace with everything.

(38:02):
But I was like, I feel like I'm aboutto have the hardest marathon of my life
and I'm in the worst shape of my life.
Nice.
Like, I could not be in worse shape.
So how am I gonna do this?
Because there's no, youdon't get to peace out.
You don't get to be like.
Just kidding.
I'm not gonna, I'm gonna gohome and like drink a Starbucks.
Like, no, you have to finish it.
So one way or another.
Yeah.

(38:22):
And I remember just being like so scaredabout like, how is it gonna do it?
And that is why I think personally, oneof the things I would say is have either
a business or the hospital that youtrust or a birth team that you trust.
Yeah,
because like that for me, I mean, havingmy doula was the, the number one thing
that got me through both of my births.
And I will say that like I will singher praises forever 'cause having her

(38:43):
there and then my husband and my sisterfor my first one was really what got
me through the really hard moments.
And my midwives were incredible thatI had and I just, I loved my team, but
I built like this long relationshipwith them or in some cases family
relationship with them for so long.
So having that team of people thatyou can trust or in your case like a
hospital that like you felt confident

(39:04):
Is going to make sure I don't die.
Yeah.
Right.
With that like you can do kind ofanything, like get through, however
it's gonna turn out and the plan if itgets thrown out the window, so be it.
You've got a team of peoplearound you to help you.
One of the things I'll mentionjust 'cause I think it's one of the
coolest parts of the first storyis my doula the thing that got me.
'cause I was like really strugglinglike 40 minutes into back labor.

(39:26):
Oh my God, I don't knowhow I'm gonna do this.
And I remember crying and beinglike, I just wish I knew how
many more pushes were left.
Like it just feels like this likemountain that I don't see the end of.
And she told me, she was like,you're doing so, so good.
I love these like roaring lion sounds.
And my brain went.
Damn right.
I'm a Leo and I'm a lion.
And for the rest of that, I think withinlike minutes of her saying that, like

(39:49):
something shifted in my brain and I wasable to like literally roar out my child.
That's so like a lion, you know?
It was super cool, right?
And, but it was like she just knewthe right thing to say in that
moment that like got me to theplace I needed to be mentally to
like figure out the rest of it.
I'm looking, no one can see me,but I'm just staring lovingly
at Cawnawyn Mor right now.

(40:09):
Because as you were talking about this,in my head I was thinking like, and your,
your support can't be Instagram, right?
Like Yeah.
And I think that was something thatI got a little caught up in where I
was like following people who werehaving kids, and I was like listening
to stories and watching birthstories on YouTube, but like those
that's not actually supporting me.
It was great knowledge, but Iwasn't having conversations with

(40:32):
the people around me and the peoplewho were actively, like, I didn't
have a conversation with my mother.
I didn't have like a conversation withmy husband about what the game plan was.
I think the only thing I told himwas, I don't wanna have a c-section.
And then surprise we'rehaving a C-section.
And this is why I'm emotional becausethen I'm just thinking about it and
I'm thinking about like the witchspace journey and the Cawnawyn Mor
journey and how like I feel like Iget on every podcast I'm ever on and

(40:57):
I'm like, you need to build community.
You need to like build relationshipswith people and you are constantly
such a, an example of that.
Right.
Like you kind of dove in andimmediately were like, all right,
I'm gonna go do ritual with people.
I'm gonna go do witchcraft with people.
You have the divine warrior, coven, youhave all this stuff like you are doing
the thing that I keep saying you shoulddo, and then not doing, and I'm crying.

(41:22):
It's fine.
I'm not going to cry.
One of the things that is so difficultabout being a parent, about being
a mother, and sometimes aboutbeing a witch is feeling alone.
Yeah.
Is feeling like you're theonly person who understands the
reality that you're living in?
And I'm, I'm crying.

(41:42):
This sucks.
Um, but I hope that like people who arelistening to this feel less alone because
of listening to this because like, I feelless alone from having this conversation.
I'm really glad thatyou're feeling less alone.
I love you.
I think that.
It's a really admirable thing that bothyou and Scorpio have done because you
have made, which is everywhere, myselfincluded in this, feel less alone by

(42:06):
having voices to hear and talk to andlike listen to in your experience.
And I can only imagine being inthat place because of course, like.
Yes, we wanna build community.
Yes, we wanna go out there anddo the things and do the work.
But life can be really hard.
Life can be a lot, and you guys workincredibly hard and now you're also a

(42:27):
mother, so you have that, which I knowlike is an enormous amount of work
on top of an enormous amount of work.
And then you guys are stillout there saying that.
And to be in that position I thinkcould feel very, very lonely.
I am sure it's like unreal howmany lives you've probably touched.
I really applaud the work that you dobecause it makes so many people feel less

(42:49):
alone and I really empathize with like.
Then you're having to also navigateall of those same challenges.
Yeah.
You know, as your own person.
And it's difficult, and I thinkmotherhood can be incredibly
lonely because of how much of atransformation in our own identity
is wrapped up in this whole process.
Not to mention the re-parenting that ittakes coping with all of the different

(43:13):
hats we're wearing as witches, asmothers, as creators, as teachers,
as like all these things, right?
Nobody really gets thatunless you're doing it.
Unless you're in it.
The amount of people that you can berelatable with starts getting smaller
and smaller and like a full way.
And I think that's why it's like it'simportant to have these communities
that like maybe satisfy certain partsof you because you're probably never

(43:33):
gonna find anybody that is just like.
The person that like, oh, youcompletely understand me in every way.
Like even our own spouses can't do that.
Convince me to have a second child.
Oh God,
tell me your second birth story andconvince me to have another one.
Okay.

(43:53):
I don't.
We'll see.
Okay.
You'll, you, you can be the judge.
You, Gemini, and you out there listening.
So, okay.
Birth number two.
So first let me say my first birth,he came at 40 weeks and three days.
Okay.
For whatever reason, I wasabsolutely convinced that my
second birth would be much shorter.
Like it would just be like,it's gonna be really quick.
Mm-hmm.
It's gonna be like a few hours and it'sgonna be like at week 38 or week 37.

(44:17):
I just know it and I think it'sbecause I was absolutely convinced
I was having a Gemini plot twist.
This child in every single way hasbeen not what I expected like, and,
and that's why I'm like, I'm literallyjust, I've learned with him already
and I'm gonna keep learning thisprobably for the rest of my life, to
throw expectations out the window.
He is his own completely separatehuman and it's not what I thought.

(44:38):
And that's cool 'causehe can be his own person.
So he was due like two days beforethe summer solstice, so I was like,
there's no way this kid's a cancer.
He's a Gemini.
So June is rolling along.
I'm absolutely massive.
Um, I will say that pregnancywith a toddler was far more
difficult than 2 under 2.
For me personally, like I never wannabe pregnant with a toddler ever again.

(45:01):
That was like a level of exhaustionI was not ready for at all.
And my toddler is Sag rising.
He's wild, he's fun, he's crazy.
And it was a lot of a spring and a earlysummer of my God, I was very, very lucky
to have my husband with me for most ofthe month of June because we were under
the assumption that he would come early.
Well, he didn't come early.
He came at.

(45:21):
41 and 4.
So we get to cancer season,I'm like, I'm having a cancer.
Wasn't expecting that.
Okay.
And I, that should have been a cluebecause this child was not gonna come out.
No ma'am.
So we scheduled a ultrasoundto check on him because it had
been so late at like 41 weeks.
Um, by this point I was.
In the tub begging nightly.

(45:43):
I was out dancing the Heilung in myliving room, in the middle of the night
being like, I'm gonna dance this childout through the ritualistic drums,
and he's gonna hear his ancestorslike, I don't care what it takes.
Yes.
I don't know if thatworks right, but whatever.
And so I am, I'm likedesperate at this point.
I've waited so long, I'm soready to be done being pregnant.
We get an ultrasound and the kid's huge.

(46:03):
It was so cool seeing ultrasoundof like a 41 week baby, like wild.
So different than like your 20 week.
We were like made aware thatwhile he was perfectly healthy,
I had an excess amount of fluid.
And so what that means isthere's a lot of poop in there.
Really fun.
Yeah.
We we're gonna get socandid on this podcast.
There's no way to do motherhood like this.

(46:25):
There's not,
I think, and it's actually a hugelearning curve for me to do this.
So here we are.
I'm, I'm open.
We're out there we're, it's happening.
Witchcraft is messy and we love it.
And so is motherhood.
So basically he needs to come out.
Yeah.
So with my second, we decidedto induce with castor oil.
And I,
I've heard things
highly, highly heard.
Yes will say out loud like, do notdo this unless you have very safe,

(46:48):
direct communication with somebodywho is experienced in doing this.
Do not just take castor oil because youfeel like not being pregnant anymore.
Yeah.
And I was very concerned about this,but I would time out of the birth
center at 42 weeks, so I was like,oh my God, we gotta get in there.
'cause it was like 41and two at this point.
Yeah.
And I was like, I need toget into the birth center.
I'm willing to do whatever it takes.
Let's try this.
And my midwives had a very specificplan for how to do it, and I just

(47:13):
want people out there to know,like, don't just try this on a whim.
Like definitely get advice and astep-by-step plan on how to do this.
The best way I can describe thetaste of castor oil, which was
mixed for me into a milkshake
I didn't just take it straight becausewhole God, I would never, um, but it
tastes like you're eating lipstick.
Lovely.
I know.
So you're like having it in milkshakeAnd I took the first one and immediately

(47:36):
started getting like labor, like,oh, okay, we're in labor land because
I'd had false labor all of June.
Oh no.
Like the whole like, like the week37 hit and I was having false labor
pains like through all of that.
So my best friend came over with mydoula and we're all like hanging out.
And my parents were over it wasgoing slow, but it was good.
It was like super gorgeous weather outsideI was outside on my deck like pacing

(47:59):
laboring with fairy lights on our deck andwe're like, okay, I think it's time to go.
So we like left and went to thebirth center at around, I think
it was like 10 or 11 at night.
We get there and I get in the bathand I like take a shower, and then
I was like, okay, things are good.
And then I took a nap till2:00 AM and my labor stopped.
So I'm in the same room, the samebirth center, and my labor stalls and

(48:21):
they're like, you have to go home.
Okay.
Yeah.
You're not selling second child.
It's not,
I, I didn't think so, so I was likevery disappointed, as you can imagine.
Um, but I was like, okay, this kidhas his own his own like thing,
and I'm just gonna, I'm just gonnatry to be as positive as I can.
So we go home and the whole secondday they're like, okay, you're gonna

(48:44):
take two doses of the castor oil.
We're gonna like, just try to ham itout because like, I'd been laboring.
Yeah, and so we knew it was close,but it was like, what is happening?
It's June 30th at this point, sovery last day of June, I take two
doses and the labor picks up whereit left off so much more far ahead.
Yeah.
Three in the four in the afternoonis like when the labor started and
by eight o'clock we were at thebirth center and I was about ready

(49:07):
to have the baby in the parking lotbecause my midwife wasn't there yet.
I was like laboring fullon in this parking lot.
They get us in there, I get in the bath.
And they're like, we're gonna breakyour water 'cause it hasn't broken yet.
Mm-hmm.
And turns out my amniotic stackwas like literally a crab shell.
It was so hard and so thick.
That kid did not want to come out.

(49:28):
So they had to like work.
They had to like laborto get this thing popped.
And I pushed for eightminutes and he was out.
Okay, well, hey, that part's nice.
It's nice except that he had a recordbreaking head, like biggest head, any
of my midwives had ever delivered.
And then he was the biggest baby that hadbeen born at the birth center that month.

(49:49):
So he came out real quick.
Um, miraculously I did not haveanything above like, I think I had
a first degree tear, which was wild.
Yeah, I mean, it was crazy.
That's impressive.
He was ready to come out.
Once that water broke, hewas like, I'm out baby.
And wow, it was so intense.
But what happened was all of a suddenI'm like, this is getting very much

(50:10):
more intense and I'm very scared.
All of a sudden I started kindof shrieking and my midwife
was like, Cawnawyn low tones,and I remembered to roar.
Once again, she roared out herbaby and he actually came out.
He didn't come out in the tub.
We got out, I had to get out of the tub.
They had to do a, a fancy maneuver and weflipped him around or whatever, and I'm
like holding my baby, which was crazy.

(50:32):
And they'd had taken all the precautionsnecessary 'cause they had an idea of
why I bled so much the first time.
So I was able to go home with my son atlike two in the morning, being able to
like go home and get in bed with my son.
So great.
And like wake up in our house andintroduce him to his older brother,
which was the most magical moment.

(50:52):
Oh my God.
And he's just been our littlelike summer nugget ever since.
And it's
mm-hmm.
That was great.
But that birth Wow.
And like doing it again, I'll saylike, you know, your brain will
purposely forget the first labor.
Mm-hmm.
And so I was like,yeah, I can handle this.
Like I did it the first time.
Holy hell.
My body took over.
Like a primal thing.

(51:12):
Yeah.
Took over.
There was no controlling it other thanlike, in the case of use low tone.
Right.
That was so helpful to like roarthe baby out and do it like in a
lower way versus like shrieking.
There we have it.
So that was my, that was my summer baby.
My baby cancer.
And um, yeah.
What a great start to this podcast.

(51:33):
Oh yeah.
I can't wait to keep having theseconversations with you, Cawnawyn,
and I can't wait for you to haveconversations with other people and
for me to get to listen to them.
It's so fun talking togetherlike with another mama.
I love it.
It was lovely chatting with youabout all things Birth today.
Oh my God.
I know.
Always and forever.
Whenever you want me,
Oh always, and we're so excited,like to just keep doing this.

(51:55):
Thank you all so much for listeningto this episode of Stars and Sprouts:
Pagan Parenting New episodes willbloom with the wheel every Sabbat
and in between, so I will see you at.
Lughnasadh in the first week of August.
To explore more music, astrology,magic, and more, visit cawnawynmor.com.
Until next time, keep growingwild, rooted, and radiant.