July 8, 2025 • 33 mins
Are you ready to take a leap of faith?
Do you have a dream deep inside - a vision, a longing, an idea that pops into your mind from time-to-time, but just won't go away?
If you've been wrestling with hesitation, fear, or self-doubt, this episode is for you! Belle catches up with former colleague Matt Hale, who quit his job as an award-winning radio producer to try something few people have ever dared to try. Hear how Matt and his wife are now living their dream life. And it all began with a leap of faith.
Hear the extended (45-min) version on YouTube
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EPISODE LINKS: Matt Hale - Comedy Hypnotist | Matt at Edinburgh Fringe | Matt on Facebook | Matt on Instagram
DISCLAIMER: The information shared in this podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only. I am not a medical professional. If you’re experiencing health or mental health issues, please seek advice from a qualified healthcare provider.
CREDITS: Theme Music: "Strive to Be Better" by Craig Riley (licensed) Incidental Music: "Advertime" written by Rafael Krux "Magical Transition written by Kevin MacLeod (freepd.com)
#StepIntoMePodcast #MattHale #HypnoHale #LeapOfFaith #Reinvention #InnerWisdom #PersonalGrowth #ComedyHypnotist #AuthenticLiving #DreamChasing #edfringe #DaretoDiscover
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
(gentle music)
(00:03):
- Well, hello, and thank you for joining us
for episode seven of Step Into Me,
the podcast where we explore what it really means
to listen to your inner voice
and find the courage to step into your dream life.
Today I'm joined by someone who embodies the spirit
of taking a leap of faith, my former radio colleague, Matt Hale.
(00:25):
Matt's journey from award-winning radio producer
to international comedy hypnotist is a testament
to what can happen when you trust
that still small voice inside
and dare to take a leap into the unknown.
- I've just never wanted to die not knowing.
I find those little niggles too loud to not address.
(00:48):
- Well, as you'll soon discover,
sometimes a rich life is way more than just what's in the bank.
Matt's story is all about building a life full of freedom,
adventure, love, and having the courage to follow your heart.
So grab a cup of tea and settle in
because you are about to hear a truly inspiring story.
(01:11):
(bell ringing)
It's 3.15 a.m.
and Matt Hale is up and preparing for work.
Like breakfast radio people, the world over.
This is the less than glamour aside to the business.
But, Matt is good at what he does.
He's not only extremely popular amongst colleagues
(01:33):
and listeners, he's also won multiple awards
and he's at the very top of his game.
But radio isn't Matt's only interest,
a curiosity about hypnotism has got him thinking.
And increasingly, that early morning alarm
is starting to take its toll.
As much as I was going in to do a really fun and,
(01:54):
yeah, let's face it, a high-stress job.
Yeah, the most fun shift of the day in radio terms,
but you were constantly feeling tired
because you're living a life where no one else
of your normal friends except that, you know,
that the few people in that same studio are living those hours.
So consequently, you never really go to bed early
enough to get the amount of sleep you want.
(02:15):
So bit by bit, day by day, each week you can't get more tired
and more tired.
At the end of the week, you're absolutely shattered
and then you're kind of relaxed the weekend and do it again.
And it wasn't just the waking up for you.
I mean, you were the guy who was always doing the wild
and wacky stuff, too, weren't you?
I mean, that's one of the things I remember about you, Matt,
is that you were, when I said, "Yes, Guy,"
(02:35):
I don't mean that you were sucking up to the boss or anything,
but you were the "Yes, Guy," who, when there was, you know,
let's jump out of a plane or do something silly.
You were that guy, so there was a lot on you, wasn't there?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it did some ridiculously stupid
and also equally fun things.
And it was just that thing, I was like,
"Hey, let's get Matt to do this, let's get into the yo."
(02:58):
I think probably one of the most memorable ones
was getting strapped to the bonnet of a car
at a monster truck show and then getting driven through
the wall of fire as that wall exploded into flames
on strapped to the bonnet of the car.
And I looked back and I was like,
"I don't think that was that safe, actually."
(laughing)
(03:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's one of those things you just didn't question,
like, "Oh, I'm a great rodeo,"
and we'll talk about that."
And I was like, look, back on it, it was like,
it was actually the visiting company that ran that event.
It was the managers 14-year-old son,
and I was like, "Oh, yeah, just hold on here, hold on there."
Oh, yeah, and make sure you put your head down
'cause you don't want your next snap back when you go,
"Oh, okay."
(03:38):
That shouldn't be an aside to tell me,
that should be like the very first thing you tell me.
Oh, goodness.
The world has changed so much in such a short time, isn't it?
Thank goodness.
So you've got this brilliant career, basically.
Obviously you're tied, but you've won lots of awards.
You've also met a wonderful woman along the way.
And life is pretty good, I imagine.
(03:59):
So when did you first start hearing that sort of little
niggling thought that maybe there's something else out there
for you and maybe you have to move on from what you're doing?
I was always interested in hypnosis,
but because I had this series of really great careers,
I actually started out as a DJ in clubs,
(04:19):
so that was my first career in that.
That took me to various countries.
I'd go and work for a few months here,
a few months there, DJ in clubs.
Then I ended up in radio,
but in amongst all that,
I was always fascinated with how the mind worked
and what you could do with it, that kind of thing,
found hypnosis started dabbling with that in my probably
early 20s, but because I was involved with these
(04:40):
really fun careers,
I never really had the time to jump into it
and give the time to put a show together,
because it's just too hard if you're,
especially in the radio career,
where you're getting up and it's all encompassing for so much.
So I would always say if there was something that perked my mind
into gear and reminded me,
(05:01):
like, oh, that hypnosis thing,
I was like, oh yeah, the greats at some point,
but the catalyst was actually when I decided to quit radio,
thinking that I would probably come back into radio after it,
and then my wife would go to go traveling for a year.
It was during that year that I actually realized,
well, do you know what?
I don't have to necessarily go back into radio straight away.
(05:22):
I could try this thing that I've had in my back of my mind
for so long.
I mean, there's plenty, plenty of things I'd tried along the way,
which weren't so all encompassing to try,
and I've always wanted to kind of give stuff a go,
but trying to put a show together while you're trying
to do breakfast radio was really tricky just simply because it was
the opposite ends of the day.
(05:43):
So that never counterpourwishing,
except for that kind of just mild interest in it.
So let's just backtrack a little bit
because yours was no ordinary resignation,
either, was it?
I mean, you go into the boss,
and do you want to share how you explained to him
that you were quitting radio?
Yeah, okay, yeah.
And that also, sometimes I forget that,
(06:05):
and then I realise that it's probably the most ridiculous part
of it is that when I boss at the time who did have a friend
as he said to a human,
it wasn't really a massive surprise when I said
the stupid words to him,
but it was just a surprise that I was quitting a very good job
at that time.
But yeah, I told him I was about to travel the world
for a year in the world's worst Elvis suit.
(06:25):
So a joke got out of hand.
I ended up with this really terrible Elvis suit,
and rather than just waste it, I thought,
oh, we've got this year long trip coming up.
So why don't I take it with me, get some silly photos?
It was kind of, it was, because this is back in 2008,
it was before social media being a massive deal,
it was before going viral was a big thing,
(06:47):
but it was probably along the lines of something
that you might plan properly to do now.
I've got to make this a thing,
but it was just a joke that got out of hand,
but as I went around the world,
I'd get these photos and videos in this Elvis suit
under the guise of crap Elvis.
And yeah, it became quite a thing.
I've got a lot of media coverage as I went along.
And you can still Google it to this stuff.
(07:09):
I think the website, crapelvis.com still exists,
so it's a website, I think so.
(laughs)
So you've made this decision, you and your wife, Catherine,
that you're going to take a year.
Obviously you started thinking a little bit more
about this comedy hypnotist thing.
Take us through the mindset at that stage.
(07:30):
I mean, how did you take those first steps?
Because it's a big thing.
I mean, I think a lot of people would have spent the year away
and then gone back to what they know,
better than they know.
But you didn't, you sort of then started taking these little steps
to all this comedy hypnotist thing.
So just tell it, talk us through.
If you can remember, what was going through your mind
(07:51):
at that time?
No, it was really interesting.
Because I've always backed myself and I've always thought,
yeah, it'll probably work out, okay, probably fine.
It'll probably be good.
I can probably do that.
So I've always backed myself.
I left radio, which was obviously to a lot of people,
oh, no, you can't because you've got a good job
in something that's so few jobs, jobs, hard to get back in.
(08:12):
But I just kind of thought, well, look,
I don't expect to kind of walk straight back into a job
or the same job after a year.
But I'll probably get a job in the media somehow,
at some point, with my experience and connections.
And that, whether it takes a bit of time or not,
I'll probably be able to do that.
So it wasn't a big fear of leaving for the year
(08:34):
and not getting back into the media.
But yeah, then over that year, that freedom over that year
really had me thinking that, hey, look, actually,
when I come back, I really do have the chance to,
you know, at least try something different.
Because if that doesn't work out,
I can just then get back on that track of looking
(08:57):
for a job in something I know again.
But why don't I just put a little bit of time and effort
into seeing if I could put him noticed to show together?
You know, it's something I always wanted to do,
being in the back of my mind.
And I've always been wanting to one that I never want
to die wondering.
And I'd rather know that it didn't work out,
but at least I tried it rather than not know
(09:18):
what might have happened.
And I wasn't doing it to think, this is my next career.
This will take over everything.
This will take me around the world.
It was just like, I think it'd be a really fun thing
to do.
And yeah, I reckon I could do that.
I'm going to try and put a show together.
So that was the move to that decision to at least give it
(09:38):
a go when I got back.
But I, you know, that wasn't going to pay the bills initially.
So I took myself through a surfing instructor's course.
I was at a very keen surface.
So that meant I could teach surfing part time
and then try and put the show out there.
And then bit by bit, as I managed to put more shows together
(10:00):
and get booked and things like that,
I could start taking the foot off the surfing work.
So that was a stopgap.
And yeah, yeah, I mean, obviously worked out.
But that was how it kind of came to be of giving it a go, I guess.
But you weren't a hypnotist, were you?
I mean, you were funny guys.
So I can understand that you'd have a little bit of confidence
(10:22):
in actually being able to be funny on stage.
But is there a hypnosis school?
I mean, how do you learn to do that?
You know, looking to my eyes, looking to my eyes.
You can't fake it.
I just, I just an idiot with a stupid idea.
That's it.
No, you're right.
So of course, you know, it's off to Hogwarts for a semester.
(10:43):
No.
Yeah, I wasn't a hypnotist in the traditional sense
in that I wasn't doing it regularly.
I wasn't structured.
And I wasn't that kind of thing.
But I was dabbling with hypnosis.
I learned some techniques I've been using for years
and just in social settings and just mucking around with it
and read stuff in old books and talk some old hypnotist.
(11:05):
But it was just these were just things I'd just say, every now and then I'd
muck around with.
But then, and that, I guess that was part of the like, it was always top of mind
because just every now and then I kind of scratch that each a little bit.
But yeah, so when I wanted to put the show together,
then I just was like, well, I mean, I live in what's class as the one of
the world's most remote cities in the respect that it's the furthest away
(11:28):
from the next major city that's perth Western Australia.
So, yeah, it wasn't like I had either someone who could teach me there
or a class I could take.
It's not something you do at school.
No, so I was basically just looked at whatever I could find
to get my information on online at the time.
So it was not very well structured in my learning initially.
(11:54):
But it was enough to put a show together and see what happened.
So, you know, I found some guys in the US had put some training stuff together
but I couldn't get over there and so I got some information from them and
yeah, all sorts of things.
So I basically, you know, started to model a show on their format and
they helped me with that and, yeah, just put a show on to see what happened.
(12:16):
But what I always do explain with stage hypnosis is that it's really funny.
There's no real proper rehearsal, proper practice other than doing it because,
you know, unlike a singer where, you know, you rehearse your songs and
as long as you remember those words and hit those notes your final, a
comedian whether the audience like the jokes or not, you know the jokes you
(12:36):
want to tell or whether you're a magician, as long as you practice it, they're
mirrored after all the slights of hands and you can get away with it.
But as a hypnotist you can't really rehearse properly unless you have
those bodies in the seats ready to be hypnotised because, you know,
you can rehearse the words you want to say but you don't really know how it's
going to work.
So initially that first show is you're almost crossing your fingers behind your
(12:58):
back thinking, "Cheese, I hope this works."
Now I've got, you know, a hundred people in this room watching me do this.
And did it work?
I mean, how did it first get me?
Where was it?
Do you remember?
Yeah, I do remember it.
It was at a balls club in a free mental Western Australia, North Free Mental Balls Club.
I think that was my, I'm pretty sure that was my first show I did.
I did a few around the same time.
(13:20):
So I think that was the very first one.
But basically, you know, you certainly don't go out and advertise,
"Hey, come to my very first show because that doesn't instill confidence in the audience."
But if you're just boldly, confidently pronounced at your stage comedy hypnotist
in your running a show, well, the people who don't know you then don't
know that's your first show.
(13:41):
It's almost like fake it to you make it kind of, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
It was funny.
I thought, well, I've got this kind of suite of skills, hypnotic skills that I've learnt
and other people seem to be able to make the work in a live stage show setting.
So hopefully it will also work for me.
And if nobody else knows the truth, that's my first time trying it.
(14:05):
They may confidently come into that show believing that I have the ability to pull this off.
And thank goodness that you were able to get people out of hypnosis too.
Could be disastrous.
There'd be people walking around, probably, and are clacking like chickens for the rest of their life.
Well, I'll definitely pull you up there because like one of the very first things I always
(14:26):
proclaimed as a fun thing, but also laying down a marker, is I've always had this 100%
chicken freak guarantee because...
Right.
Yeah, because ever since the start of doing it, I never wanted it to be mysterious in any
way.
I wanted people to know how and why it worked because this thing, as much as I enjoyed seeing
(14:47):
stage hypnosis shows, most of the shows I saw, I wasn't, they were definitely not a style
that either, you know, people were doing embarrassed things or put over like, "Oh, this is a bit
of a power I have."
And stuff like that, when I was wanted people to know, like, it's, this is basic psychology.
You know, how you can use your mind to get yourself in that kind of state of mind and use your
imagination and all this kind of thing.
(15:09):
So I always wanted to modernise it, but so one of the first markers I laid down was like,
"No chickens in the show!"
I love it.
And it's funny, it just became a funny little tag line.
Yeah.
So what part did visualisation play for you met?
Did you, were you seeing yourself on stage and thinking, "Yeah, I can do this because it's
(15:30):
not every day you wake up and think, "I'm going to be a comedy hypnotist."
And so did that play any role for you?
Yeah.
Because I think for a lot of people it would have to.
Yeah, absolutely.
I've always been a very, very visual thinker.
And so I think even before I knew what visualisation was, I was naturally doing that anyway.
And now I do it purposely.
But I was constantly seeing things, you know, how things work in my mind and placing myself
(15:55):
in that situation.
I think radio played a big part of that because that, you know, obviously one of the terms
we're using radio as an industry term is, you know, radio is theatre with the mind.
And it is because you're purely auditory medium, but you're hoping to paint that picture
in people's mind.
So, you know, with radio you're doing that naturally and purposefully all the time.
(16:16):
And so of course, you know, when I was thinking about doing this show, I was seeing myself doing
this show because that's the thing.
If you're, if you can't see yourself doing it, if you can't imagine yourself doing it,
you're working against yourself already.
And you can change that way of thinking, you know, you can force that image of like, okay,
well, even though I'm not that sure I can do this, let me imagine if I could, like, what
(16:37):
would that look like in my mind?
But I already had that thing of like, I saw a hip and dis do a show once and I thought,
well, he could have, you know, I probably could.
So I could at least see myself doing it in my mind.
And yeah, that, that definitely helps me work towards actually believing it was possible
and carrying through with at least testing that theory out and going all in on me like,
(17:03):
will it, will not, will it or will not work for me?
Will it, and also will I or will I not enjoy it?
Because I didn't know that.
And this wasn't about setting out a career path which would find me, you know, 15 years
later with TV shows and world tours and all sorts of things behind me because of it.
It was just basically like, let's see, let's put a show together.
(17:26):
It could have just been the one, could have enjoyed it, but decided I didn't really want to do
it as something to earn money.
It could have been a financial disaster.
All right, it could have just not worked or could have all these different things, but I
at least saw myself in my mind being able to do it.
So enough to give it a go and see what happened.
So having that vision, do you think that helped through the challenges because there must
(17:47):
have been setbacks and challenges along the way as well?
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, what were some of those that you encountered?
Well, I think the main thing is at the time there was no one doing shows.
So it was interesting because some people was like, you can look at this in two ways.
It's a very unique niche.
No one else in the local market was doing hipnotic shows.
(18:08):
There was just no one.
But on the other side of that, it means there was no demand for it either.
So the challenge.
Yeah, you know?
So it's not like, you know, eventually obviously, you know, you've got taken up by various
entertainment agents, but they didn't have 10 hypnotists on their book.
They didn't have one hypnotist on their book, you know?
(18:30):
So whereas you might go to an entertainment agency, hey, can you give us some ideas for
your end of your event and they go, sure, you know, do you want to audition?
Do you want to band?
Do you want to carry over?
Do you want to comedian?
Do you want to balance things?
Act or whatever.
But there's multiples of a lot of things, especially musicians and bands and things like
that.
And then you can hear that someone would come out and go, no, actually do you have a hypnotist?
(18:51):
And so, yeah, so that market didn't really exist.
So I kind of had to create that market.
Again, you know, if you just proclaim that you're a comedy hypnotist, people don't come
to you and go, cool, let's book you.
They want to see that you've done it.
They want to see some proof.
They want to see that other people enjoy it.
So my initial challenge was, well, I need to put shows on myself that I have video and
(19:14):
photos and feedback from audiences and proof that this is a thing that I can competently
do and it might be great for other people, whether it's a public venue that wants to book me
or whether it's somebody who wants to book me for an event that they can have the confidence
in doing so.
So, yeah, that big, big challenge was that actually no one was wanting a hypnotist
(19:35):
time.
Oh my goodness.
But then, you know, but then you start getting the gigs.
I see that, you know, on Facebook that you were getting gigs on mind sites and comedy festivals
and, you know, people are flying you to different locations to do corporate gigs and all
this sort of stuff.
And this starts to look like a full-time job, maybe not a career at this stage, a job.
(19:58):
And then I just remembered that I see a photo of you and Mike Tyson from memory that you
even know did him as well.
So, how is this feeling at this stage because suddenly you'll, there must have been that little
turning point where you thought, hey, I can make a life of this.
Yeah, I do know what it was.
(20:18):
I think what happened was I got invited, that's, that thing that Tyson came out because I
was in Vegas talking at a hypnosis training event.
And so, that was one of those things.
I was like, well, I've been doing this thing on my own and then through the power of social
media, even at that point, other people.
And then, in the industry, I started to take note and I, you know, got invited, I did want
(20:41):
to come and talk at this training event because it seemed like what I was doing, I was doing
it well and people seemed to like it and seemed to be a slightly different take on how it
had been and I was like, well, maybe I'm pretty good at this.
I mean, I knew I was doing the shows, okay, you know, the shows felt good to me in that.
But that was really nice.
I was like, well, maybe I do have legs in this because it did seem to snowball very,
(21:04):
very quickly, you know.
It did.
And so, really, realistically, within a couple of years, I was working absolutely full-time
within a couple of years of starting that even within the year, I think, but within two
years, I was already traveling a lot with the show, so not just doing shows locally.
I was getting booked for different things and first little bit TV came along and stuff like
(21:26):
that.
So, that kind of happened very quickly.
And your lovely wife, Catherine, who had her own successful career, prior to meeting
you.
And this takes off and then she takes a huge leap of faith as well and gives away her career
to become your manager.
So, what was that like for Catherine to leave her high profile job to start traveling
(21:50):
the world with her?
Yeah.
So, this is an interesting way.
This developed because what happened with me is as much as my career as a hypnotist
and before that, my career was a radio guy and things like that.
I've not been someone who's like, "I live in Breathe Radio, why I live in Breathe Hypnotist,
I've just loved doing those things as my job, but I have all these other things in my life
(22:12):
that I absolutely love doing, you know, I'm surfing, I'm traveling, I'm going to have
a coffee, I'm walking the dog, blah, blah, blah, blah, so having this very flexible job
now of shows which sometimes would be occasioned to be a couple in a week, but then sometimes
you might have a break of two weeks before there was another show.
So, you know, that made it be very flexible for me to just suddenly go, "I don't have a show
(22:37):
for a couple weeks, I can still want some emails and they're trying to develop some business,
but why don't I just pop up to Bali for five days and answer any emails from there while
I'm surfing all day?"
You know, so the problem with that was, was that, unfortunately, you know, Catherine had
a very good job in corporate finance that she'd been 20 years in the same company and that
(23:00):
comes with the corporate holidays of, you have to request your holiday and you only get
so many holidays a year and that doesn't afford you being able to go and kind of just
pop up to Bali with your husband next week just because he found that a cheap flight,
generally found a cheap flight on Tuesday to go, or they can't think so.
We've got this point where Catherine had been in that company so long she was allowed
(23:26):
to take a year off without pay and still have that job open to come back to.
So, yeah, so what the plan was, was like, "Okay, if I get to a point where I've booked
in a certain amount dollar value of worth of bookings in the future, so we know that's
(23:46):
going to come in, providing, I'll do those shows."
Then we know that's business that will pay the mortgage and everything like that and
we can test Catherine working in the business because what had happened was I couldn't
grow the business more because I was too busy doing the shows.
So I could do more shows but I didn't have the time to develop the business side to actually
(24:11):
get those extra shows.
So we thought, well, look, we don't need to match what Catherine's earning now in a business.
But for us to both have a very flexible, enjoyable life, there's a certain figure that my hypnosis
business would need to hit to cover both of us having a more flexible lifestyle together.
(24:33):
So we just said, let's try this for a year.
Once we triggered that, okay, we've got enough business already for this year.
Now let's flip Catherine into the business and see if with her business skills, if she
can develop the business further to make this more sustainable as a thing.
Of course, we didn't know even if we worked well together either.
(24:55):
No, and it would be a whole new skill set also for Catherine, I imagine, its PR and it's
so all of that.
She would have never believed that she would have a enduring career in the arts after being
a corporate banker.
No, never the two-shell meet.
So consequently, we tried that back in 2014 and here we are in 2025 and proud and happy to
(25:17):
say that Catherine is still my manager and producer and it's worked incredibly well.
We did have to learn to work around each other in the ways that we work because we both
work very differently because it's not that Catherine does every single bit of the office
stuff.
There's a lot of social side and media side and bits and pieces that I do.
So consequently, I do a lot of admin as well but we very quickly discovered that we don't
(25:43):
work the same in the same office.
So we had a home office at home and so we consequently we ended up making sure we had two
home offices at home because we worked differently.
Catherine was very structured, had a really good business planning way and whereas I was
like, "I'm doing this but oh, Surfs, I'll pop down now or like, oh someone just call
(26:04):
me a foot coffee, I'll go down now and I'll do this later so I'll just go back to the
office."
So I was very flexible and yeah, so we have very different ways of working but once we kind
of got around that we worked out a really good way of working together and that is something
that wasn't a guarantee because just because you're in love with someone doesn't mean
that you're spending your work together is a natural conclusion.
(26:25):
And the amount of people say to us, "Oh my god, I could never work with my husband or
you could never work with my wife."
But fortunately it's worked really well for us and we both enjoy the travel of where this
job takes us and we leverage that.
So for example, I had a, well I've actually just got a cruise ship actually, I've just been
(26:46):
on a cruise ship the last few days and so Catherine came on with me with that.
It's great, we're on the ship for five days but I just do one night of shows so we do the
stops like anybody else does but it's a lovely time and we feel like a passenger except
I get paid and pop up and do a couple of shows in a beautiful theatre and then you know
with a few weeks ago we were in Vietnam at a big conference doing a corporate event for
(27:11):
a big company and so we flew in a few days early and so that 45 minute show that I end
up doing for that conference ended up becoming part of a six day trip away for us all because
of work.
So we really leverage the work.
So consequently, do we both earn as much as we would if Catherine had been in her corporate
(27:33):
finance role and I maybe developed the business a bit more?
No, definitely not but the freedom it's given us has been amazing.
We've had a incredibly amazing time and we'll continue to do so in the way that we worked.
And that's exactly what you can't put a price tag on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's why I've created this podcast to help demonstrate that we can create these
(27:56):
lives.
I mean, it's not everyone's idea to be on cruise ships and Vietnam the next day and you
know, that's not everyone's dream life but I think the main word that you're using there
is work.
I mean, it's not just that you wish for thinking and this is this fabulous life that's
just happening to you.
You've actually created it and hats off to you because it's just an amazing story and
(28:18):
as an outsider, you know, an old work colleague and you just sort of follow your steps on
Facebook, it's just amazing to see that, oh, now you're doing this and now you're doing that
and oh, look, there you are with Mike Tyson and you know, and now you're doing a month at
Edinburgh Fringe and you know, it's just this incredible journey which has been so lovely
(28:39):
to watch from the sidelines but it's not all smooth sailing is it because there are setbacks
and I imagine something like COVID would have had a huge impact on you guys.
So, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
How have you navigated that because I know you talk about not fearing failure but tomorrow
there could be some article about the dangers of comedy hypnotists and suddenly you're
(29:02):
gix get canceled.
I mean, how do you navigate that?
Yeah, well, I mean, obviously you can take COVID as the as the example because it happens.
So that realistically was where one day we were finishing up our Adelaide Fringe run
of 27 shows and the next day it was locked down and oh, we actually didn't know when we
(29:24):
be able to work again because we're suddenly the thing which has been amazing which was
like travel and working with big groups of people on stage together.
So, suddenly became almost the worst things to be doing.
Couldn't travel, couldn't have people next to each other, couldn't have contact.
It became like, wow, I don't even know if and when this returns is this even,
(29:49):
I'm going to be viable ever again.
And so at that time it was obviously a bit of a wait and see but we had to obviously still
try and look at what could do in the meantime.
So I took my other side of my hypnotic tool belt and started running online group sessions
(30:10):
for all sorts of things.
Actually, anxiety relief was one of the biggest things during COVID of course but you know,
reduced drinking, your mind set to be able to reduce your alcohol intake, common things
like quitting smoking and now obviously quitting vaping as well.
I pivoted to doing a lot of one-on-one Zoom sessions with people but also some group Zoom
(30:30):
sessions with people doing that and I put out some online courses for different things.
So, yeah, I just had to kind of pivot to doing some online stuff but the entertainment side
of it during that obviously went to nothing except for me fully embracing TikTok just
for my own sanity of loving doing stupid stuff on video.
But yeah, the actual show side of stuff obviously completely dried out.
(30:54):
So, yeah but that was one of the things that well, what skills do I have?
I still had a lot of skills that could be translated to a different style and yeah, that
was kind of able to get through with that.
Yeah, so I never kind of fear like something happening that which would make me unable
to stand on a stage or something like that.
(31:14):
I know there's always going to be something I'll be able to do with the knowledge and skills
I've built up that they'd be transferable to something.
That's where mind set is so important isn't it?
I mean, that's you absolutely excel in terms of that sort of positive mindset and just
that attitude of, okay, we're in lockdown, I can't do my shows, what can I do?
(31:37):
And so many people are only focused on what they can't do.
How much of a role does mindset play in just your day-to-day life and your career?
Oh absolutely huge, absolutely hugely because for a starter you'd never leave a full-time
job in employment with paid holiday, paid sick leave, superannuation and that kind of thing.
(32:01):
If you didn't at least have a positive outlook on what you're about to attempt, may vaguely
be possible but it could also not work out as well and you'd have to navigate that so you
definitely need to be looking at it from a positive side because I think a lot of people
do look at situations and a lot of people said to me, "I wish I could find a job where I
could travel with or I wish I didn't have to request my holiday or whatever it is" but
(32:27):
the fact is is that those people are probably coming from a mindset of not believing that
there's a possibility for them whereas I've always gone from that other side of thinking
and sometimes incorrectly thinking about thinking, "I could probably do that but also
never, never been afraid of failure." Obviously I don't want things to fail but I know that
(32:50):
if I fail at least I know that that wasn't the thing for me or actually I can't do that
but also along the way of those failings something else comes up, you either meet someone that
leads to something else or you find a little new skill that you were good at that in that
thing but it didn't end up being the thing that led to the thing you were originally going for
(33:11):
or things like that so I think too often with mindset you're taught that like you've got
to lean into it and believe that you can do it, you can do it, you can do your whole body,
your whole mind, your whole spirit and that but I actually, I don't think that's the case,
I just think like, you can be realistic, you can be realistic and kind of go, "I
(33:33):
could put my money into it, I could, lots of hard work into it and it could still go wrong,
of course it could but I'm still going to give it a go because what's the worst going to happen?"
The worst that can happen is like, "Oh it didn't work out, well I'll try something else"
or "it didn't work out and I'm going to have to find another way of getting this money or whatever
(33:54):
it is but I've always come from that side of, I've just never wanted to die not knowing."
I find those little niggles too loud to not address those little, those in a voices that you talk about,
those however you frame them, I've always found that they're too loud to ignore
(34:14):
and sometimes they're in very quick turn around and be like, "Oh I should give it a try there,
and then sometimes it does take years for me, the hypnosis thing, I've been
dabbing with hypnosis for the last 20s but it was not until my late 30s that I actually put a show
together, that was a very long little thing in the back of my mind before it counter-fruition.
(34:38):
Yeah well that's similar to with this podcast I suppose, for me it's always been there and it
just got to the point where I thought, "I can't not do it because it keeps saying, come on,
do this thing." And you know when it first started and it's only been a handful of episodes so far
but it's been so fabulous, I suppose when you started podcasts you have to start with people that
(35:03):
you know but no one has said no so far, everyone's gone, "Yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm happy to tell my story."
That's fantastic and that's the thing and also that same thing I was like you should never be
afraid of reaching out to people who you may, you're initially thinking, "Oh they'll never come on,
they'll have too busy, they're too famous, they're too blah blah blah" because you know what,
you could send that message and they could just resonate with what you're asking them about and they're
(35:25):
like, "I'd love to do that for this person" or "I know what it was like when I was starting out" or
"I know you know what I mean" so you know again that's that thing I've not limited in yourself on
where you reach because what's the worst that could happen if you reach out and say, "Would you come
on, pop my podcast?" and someone says, "Now it's like, oh no worries, but you could have let, but they
could say no but tell you what you should, you should speak to this person and then they'd love
(35:48):
to do it." So that's that thing of like being open to believing the possibility that it could work
out but also being open to the fact that that might not necessarily work out but something's going to
come from it so yeah but also something that you just you just mentioned then and things worth
expanding on is, I always think that people when you see, "Oh there's Belle doing a podcast,
(36:09):
there's Matt doing a stage him notice a show" if you say, "I want to start podcast, I want to
a show" it seems like a mountain to climb right but you don't have to go zero to a hundred
you know it in you don't have to be like, "Oh now I wasn't a hip-nissist and now I'm doing five shows
a week or whatever it is" you know like just the smallest steps will start that journey.
(36:31):
The smallest achievable step so for example, you know if you wanted to start podcast and you've
never done anything like that before, the smallest thing of googling like, "How do I register for
a podcast?" or coming up with a domain name, a registry website, you know those are things are
very very simple to do but there's still a key part of the journey but it sets you on the step because
(36:53):
if you have them registered a name for your podcast then you're probably going to take the next step
and what do our next do? How do I, what microphone do I need to get well on Google? You know so
it's it's those things whereas I think some people will look at things and kind of go, "Oh my god how
would you ever do that or how would you ever do this?" because they only see the the top of the
mountain and that just seems too far to climb but they don't see that first little step or handrail
(37:17):
at the bottom that you've got to attach yourself to which is super easy super simple but once you kind
of set yourself on the way you you want to do that next step you want to do that next step one of
the next step and then suddenly, "Oh god I've booked myself this thing I'm doing now, I've booked a venue
or you know I'm doing my first recording or whatever it is" you know so I must mention the Tadex talk
because I think it's fabulous that you gave the power of probably and you've talked about that a little
(37:42):
bit here can you share what that is all about and how it's shaped your choices over the years?
I tell you how I came to realising it. I went from being like the other side of radio where
you're trying to get guests in and things like that to actually you know becoming the guests on
radios and then I found there's a lot of common questions that people want to ask you about
(38:04):
you know how you got started to do that, hypnotist and things like that and I would quite honestly say
"oh yeah so someone doing a show and I thought "oh I could probably do that" and then people were kind of
laugh as if I just made a joke and I'm like this is quite a common thing and then I realise like
this is okay this is obviously not the way most people think so you know I realise that most people
(38:25):
don't look at things and just kind of go "well there's someone doing it it's a thing so I could probably
do it" I then realised that as a percentage probably more people look at things and kind of go
"geez I wish I could do that" but like then their default thinking is all obviously I wouldn't be
able to because I'm not like that person or I'm not able to you know stand or hear or I'm not able to
(38:48):
do this but I realised that if you actually look at it from the I can probably do that perspective
it just opens up more opportunities because that willingness to think you can do it but being happy
to fail ends up giving you more successes in the long term because surely you may fail at a few things
(39:10):
but you definitely gonna have a few wins along the way whereas if you look to it and kind of get
"nah I wish you could do it" obviously I probably can't do that" then you just not even gonna try
there's gonna be no result from anything either way no small win no big win no knowledge of yes or
no I could do it or not you just don't know so I just realised that coming from that looking at it
(39:34):
as you know I can probably do that way of thinking is a big plus and I always say to people
because sometimes people say "yeah but I don't think about that" and I just say to them "well why don't you
think I probably can begin to think about that" that really is a starting point
(39:54):
maybe you need to start thinking that you can think or like "yeah well about it yeah I probably
can think about that let me try it and see what happens" I probably can think I can probably
do that yeah so have you had any little niggles you know I mean you've been doing this as you said
for 15 years now but are you gonna become a chef or what's that being? oh sorry yeah oh I guess so
(40:20):
there's always things but I've been so busy with my shows because obviously they
became such a big thing and I write shows that I tour with and when I'm doing festivals basically
you're not essentially getting booked for a festival you're you're finding a venue to become part
that venue and then you're responsible for the marketing and you know you literally tens of
(40:40):
thousands of dollars in the hold before you've even sold a ticket which you get percentage of so
bit by bit you know you climb in that the whole so going into a festival run you're realistically
spend months before that working on it whether it's right in the show promoting the show design
in the artwork marketing the show doing press and media for sure all these different things so it's
(41:00):
very time-consuming that they're they're also incredibly fun it does restrict me time-wise sometimes
on some other things I want to try but as I am able to manage that time better like this year actually
took a couple of festivals off this year so get gave a bit more time but my first career was as a DJ
in clubs and I've always managed to keep DJing alive in the background and do the odd set here and
(41:25):
there but it's something I still want to lean into further and I start producing a bit of my own music
but it's something I've just done oh I haven't had enough time to do so as something that's in the back
of my mind which is always like oh yeah I get back to the laptop to start working on this or put a
big dance music event on that kind of thing I'll be doing a few more of those probably next year
(41:51):
or either late this year or next year I do I do actually have a crossover project with my DJ
background and my hip not at correct background I have a project called the club notice experience which is
a called it a guided visualization to dance music it happens in a dance floor it's fully interactive
basically I'm doing a DJ set but with a mic headset mics on DJing this very specific set
(42:16):
but also getting people to close their eyes at certain times picture things I've got custom visuals
that go with it and it's a very emotionally charged very uplifting hour you know it's on the
dance for its dancing it's stillness it's everything across his hour so it combines that thing of like
you know it is hypnotic when you find yourself on a dance floor and you lose yourself in music that's
(42:40):
why we say things like that you know you do go into a trance with music you just completely lose yourself
in that world so that is something that probably next year or even later this year will come back so
there's always something shouting in the background but trust me it will get itched oh that is
so good to hear well you're in the UK at the moment and you will be performing for a full month
(43:03):
I think with only one day off I think it is at the Edinburgh Springs yes 2025 just in case somebody's
listening to this in 2020/17 yes would you like to give it a quick plug as to where you'll be the
people what they can expect and how to get tickets and things yeah it's such a fun show it's a very
if you've ever seen a hipnotic show it's very different from a rig in a hipnotic show I keep getting told
(43:25):
very upbeat fun fast pace I've been up just as much an idiot on stages just to set the scene for
everybody right at the start it's a sing along it's a party more than a show I always say and especially
this year because it's a 90s theme hipnotic show everyone either loves or hates but equally enjoys
the love or hate relationship with some of those tunes we play but yeah so you you can find me
(43:47):
at the Edinburgh fringe this year 2025 from July 30 to August 25 with fun believable but I'm always
touring so if you are listening in the future do look me up I've gone viral over the last year with over
150 million views online so there's a lot of silly videos out there on tiktok and we just put the
same videos on instagram and facebook as well so you can finally mat high or hipnotist or hipno
(44:11):
high but yeah always always feel free to get in touch anyone listening as well because I love
connecting with people so people and DM me any questions as well yeah fantastic you are the one of the
richest people I know and like I said at the start it's got nothing to do with how much is in your bank
account but but because you really have created such a rich life for yourself and for Catherine
(44:34):
the two of you doing it together and I think it's just truly an inspirational story so Matt Hale
thank you so much for taking the time to share your story and wisdom absolutely pleasure
it's been lovely chatting and I think it just goes to show what can happen when we listen to that
little voice take a leap of faith and trust that we can probably do that even if it means starting
(44:56):
from zero so remember you don't have to blow up your whole life overnight sometimes just the
tiniest step is all it takes to set something extraordinary in motion I'm blin dali this is step
into me helping you find the courage to be true to yourself
(gentle music)
(00:03):
- Well, hello, and thank you for joining us
for episode seven of Step Into Me,
the podcast where we explore what it really means
to listen to your inner voice
and find the courage to step into your dream life.
Today I'm joined by someone who embodies the spirit
of taking a leap of faith, my former radio colleague, Matt Hale.
(00:25):
Matt's journey from award-winning radio producer
to international comedy hypnotist is a testament
to what can happen when you trust
that still small voice inside
and dare to take a leap into the unknown.
- I've just never wanted to die not knowing.
I find those little niggles too loud to not address.
(00:48):
- Well, as you'll soon discover,
sometimes a rich life is way more than just what's in the bank.
Matt's story is all about building a life full of freedom,
adventure, love, and having the courage to follow your heart.
So grab a cup of tea and settle in
because you are about to hear a truly inspiring story.
(01:11):
(bell ringing)
It's 3.15 a.m.
and Matt Hale is up and preparing for work.
Like breakfast radio people, the world over.
This is the less than glamour aside to the business.
But, Matt is good at what he does.
He's not only extremely popular amongst colleagues
(01:33):
and listeners, he's also won multiple awards
and he's at the very top of his game.
But radio isn't Matt's only interest,
a curiosity about hypnotism has got him thinking.
And increasingly, that early morning alarm
is starting to take its toll.
As much as I was going in to do a really fun and,
(01:54):
yeah, let's face it, a high-stress job.
Yeah, the most fun shift of the day in radio terms,
but you were constantly feeling tired
because you're living a life where no one else
of your normal friends except that, you know,
that the few people in that same studio are living those hours.
So consequently, you never really go to bed early
enough to get the amount of sleep you want.
(02:15):
So bit by bit, day by day, each week you can't get more tired
and more tired.
At the end of the week, you're absolutely shattered
and then you're kind of relaxed the weekend and do it again.
And it wasn't just the waking up for you.
I mean, you were the guy who was always doing the wild
and wacky stuff, too, weren't you?
I mean, that's one of the things I remember about you, Matt,
is that you were, when I said, "Yes, Guy,"
(02:35):
I don't mean that you were sucking up to the boss or anything,
but you were the "Yes, Guy," who, when there was, you know,
let's jump out of a plane or do something silly.
You were that guy, so there was a lot on you, wasn't there?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it did some ridiculously stupid
and also equally fun things.
And it was just that thing, I was like,
"Hey, let's get Matt to do this, let's get into the yo."
(02:58):
I think probably one of the most memorable ones
was getting strapped to the bonnet of a car
at a monster truck show and then getting driven through
the wall of fire as that wall exploded into flames
on strapped to the bonnet of the car.
And I looked back and I was like,
"I don't think that was that safe, actually."
(laughing)
(03:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's one of those things you just didn't question,
like, "Oh, I'm a great rodeo,"
and we'll talk about that."
And I was like, look, back on it, it was like,
it was actually the visiting company that ran that event.
It was the managers 14-year-old son,
and I was like, "Oh, yeah, just hold on here, hold on there."
Oh, yeah, and make sure you put your head down
'cause you don't want your next snap back when you go,
"Oh, okay."
(03:38):
That shouldn't be an aside to tell me,
that should be like the very first thing you tell me.
Oh, goodness.
The world has changed so much in such a short time, isn't it?
Thank goodness.
So you've got this brilliant career, basically.
Obviously you're tied, but you've won lots of awards.
You've also met a wonderful woman along the way.
And life is pretty good, I imagine.
(03:59):
So when did you first start hearing that sort of little
niggling thought that maybe there's something else out there
for you and maybe you have to move on from what you're doing?
I was always interested in hypnosis,
but because I had this series of really great careers,
I actually started out as a DJ in clubs,
(04:19):
so that was my first career in that.
That took me to various countries.
I'd go and work for a few months here,
a few months there, DJ in clubs.
Then I ended up in radio,
but in amongst all that,
I was always fascinated with how the mind worked
and what you could do with it, that kind of thing,
found hypnosis started dabbling with that in my probably
early 20s, but because I was involved with these
(04:40):
really fun careers,
I never really had the time to jump into it
and give the time to put a show together,
because it's just too hard if you're,
especially in the radio career,
where you're getting up and it's all encompassing for so much.
So I would always say if there was something that perked my mind
into gear and reminded me,
(05:01):
like, oh, that hypnosis thing,
I was like, oh yeah, the greats at some point,
but the catalyst was actually when I decided to quit radio,
thinking that I would probably come back into radio after it,
and then my wife would go to go traveling for a year.
It was during that year that I actually realized,
well, do you know what?
I don't have to necessarily go back into radio straight away.
(05:22):
I could try this thing that I've had in my back of my mind
for so long.
I mean, there's plenty, plenty of things I'd tried along the way,
which weren't so all encompassing to try,
and I've always wanted to kind of give stuff a go,
but trying to put a show together while you're trying
to do breakfast radio was really tricky just simply because it was
the opposite ends of the day.
(05:43):
So that never counterpourwishing,
except for that kind of just mild interest in it.
So let's just backtrack a little bit
because yours was no ordinary resignation,
either, was it?
I mean, you go into the boss,
and do you want to share how you explained to him
that you were quitting radio?
Yeah, okay, yeah.
And that also, sometimes I forget that,
(06:05):
and then I realise that it's probably the most ridiculous part
of it is that when I boss at the time who did have a friend
as he said to a human,
it wasn't really a massive surprise when I said
the stupid words to him,
but it was just a surprise that I was quitting a very good job
at that time.
But yeah, I told him I was about to travel the world
for a year in the world's worst Elvis suit.
(06:25):
So a joke got out of hand.
I ended up with this really terrible Elvis suit,
and rather than just waste it, I thought,
oh, we've got this year long trip coming up.
So why don't I take it with me, get some silly photos?
It was kind of, it was, because this is back in 2008,
it was before social media being a massive deal,
it was before going viral was a big thing,
(06:47):
but it was probably along the lines of something
that you might plan properly to do now.
I've got to make this a thing,
but it was just a joke that got out of hand,
but as I went around the world,
I'd get these photos and videos in this Elvis suit
under the guise of crap Elvis.
And yeah, it became quite a thing.
I've got a lot of media coverage as I went along.
And you can still Google it to this stuff.
(07:09):
I think the website, crapelvis.com still exists,
so it's a website, I think so.
(laughs)
So you've made this decision, you and your wife, Catherine,
that you're going to take a year.
Obviously you started thinking a little bit more
about this comedy hypnotist thing.
Take us through the mindset at that stage.
(07:30):
I mean, how did you take those first steps?
Because it's a big thing.
I mean, I think a lot of people would have spent the year away
and then gone back to what they know,
better than they know.
But you didn't, you sort of then started taking these little steps
to all this comedy hypnotist thing.
So just tell it, talk us through.
If you can remember, what was going through your mind
(07:51):
at that time?
No, it was really interesting.
Because I've always backed myself and I've always thought,
yeah, it'll probably work out, okay, probably fine.
It'll probably be good.
I can probably do that.
So I've always backed myself.
I left radio, which was obviously to a lot of people,
oh, no, you can't because you've got a good job
in something that's so few jobs, jobs, hard to get back in.
(08:12):
But I just kind of thought, well, look,
I don't expect to kind of walk straight back into a job
or the same job after a year.
But I'll probably get a job in the media somehow,
at some point, with my experience and connections.
And that, whether it takes a bit of time or not,
I'll probably be able to do that.
So it wasn't a big fear of leaving for the year
(08:34):
and not getting back into the media.
But yeah, then over that year, that freedom over that year
really had me thinking that, hey, look, actually,
when I come back, I really do have the chance to,
you know, at least try something different.
Because if that doesn't work out,
I can just then get back on that track of looking
(08:57):
for a job in something I know again.
But why don't I just put a little bit of time and effort
into seeing if I could put him noticed to show together?
You know, it's something I always wanted to do,
being in the back of my mind.
And I've always been wanting to one that I never want
to die wondering.
And I'd rather know that it didn't work out,
but at least I tried it rather than not know
(09:18):
what might have happened.
And I wasn't doing it to think, this is my next career.
This will take over everything.
This will take me around the world.
It was just like, I think it'd be a really fun thing
to do.
And yeah, I reckon I could do that.
I'm going to try and put a show together.
So that was the move to that decision to at least give it
(09:38):
a go when I got back.
But I, you know, that wasn't going to pay the bills initially.
So I took myself through a surfing instructor's course.
I was at a very keen surface.
So that meant I could teach surfing part time
and then try and put the show out there.
And then bit by bit, as I managed to put more shows together
(10:00):
and get booked and things like that,
I could start taking the foot off the surfing work.
So that was a stopgap.
And yeah, yeah, I mean, obviously worked out.
But that was how it kind of came to be of giving it a go, I guess.
But you weren't a hypnotist, were you?
I mean, you were funny guys.
So I can understand that you'd have a little bit of confidence
(10:22):
in actually being able to be funny on stage.
But is there a hypnosis school?
I mean, how do you learn to do that?
You know, looking to my eyes, looking to my eyes.
You can't fake it.
I just, I just an idiot with a stupid idea.
That's it.
No, you're right.
So of course, you know, it's off to Hogwarts for a semester.
(10:43):
No.
Yeah, I wasn't a hypnotist in the traditional sense
in that I wasn't doing it regularly.
I wasn't structured.
And I wasn't that kind of thing.
But I was dabbling with hypnosis.
I learned some techniques I've been using for years
and just in social settings and just mucking around with it
and read stuff in old books and talk some old hypnotist.
(11:05):
But it was just these were just things I'd just say, every now and then I'd
muck around with.
But then, and that, I guess that was part of the like, it was always top of mind
because just every now and then I kind of scratch that each a little bit.
But yeah, so when I wanted to put the show together,
then I just was like, well, I mean, I live in what's class as the one of
the world's most remote cities in the respect that it's the furthest away
(11:28):
from the next major city that's perth Western Australia.
So, yeah, it wasn't like I had either someone who could teach me there
or a class I could take.
It's not something you do at school.
No, so I was basically just looked at whatever I could find
to get my information on online at the time.
So it was not very well structured in my learning initially.
(11:54):
But it was enough to put a show together and see what happened.
So, you know, I found some guys in the US had put some training stuff together
but I couldn't get over there and so I got some information from them and
yeah, all sorts of things.
So I basically, you know, started to model a show on their format and
they helped me with that and, yeah, just put a show on to see what happened.
(12:16):
But what I always do explain with stage hypnosis is that it's really funny.
There's no real proper rehearsal, proper practice other than doing it because,
you know, unlike a singer where, you know, you rehearse your songs and
as long as you remember those words and hit those notes your final, a
comedian whether the audience like the jokes or not, you know the jokes you
(12:36):
want to tell or whether you're a magician, as long as you practice it, they're
mirrored after all the slights of hands and you can get away with it.
But as a hypnotist you can't really rehearse properly unless you have
those bodies in the seats ready to be hypnotised because, you know,
you can rehearse the words you want to say but you don't really know how it's
going to work.
So initially that first show is you're almost crossing your fingers behind your
(12:58):
back thinking, "Cheese, I hope this works."
Now I've got, you know, a hundred people in this room watching me do this.
And did it work?
I mean, how did it first get me?
Where was it?
Do you remember?
Yeah, I do remember it.
It was at a balls club in a free mental Western Australia, North Free Mental Balls Club.
I think that was my, I'm pretty sure that was my first show I did.
I did a few around the same time.
(13:20):
So I think that was the very first one.
But basically, you know, you certainly don't go out and advertise,
"Hey, come to my very first show because that doesn't instill confidence in the audience."
But if you're just boldly, confidently pronounced at your stage comedy hypnotist
in your running a show, well, the people who don't know you then don't
know that's your first show.
(13:41):
It's almost like fake it to you make it kind of, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
It was funny.
I thought, well, I've got this kind of suite of skills, hypnotic skills that I've learnt
and other people seem to be able to make the work in a live stage show setting.
So hopefully it will also work for me.
And if nobody else knows the truth, that's my first time trying it.
(14:05):
They may confidently come into that show believing that I have the ability to pull this off.
And thank goodness that you were able to get people out of hypnosis too.
Could be disastrous.
There'd be people walking around, probably, and are clacking like chickens for the rest of their life.
Well, I'll definitely pull you up there because like one of the very first things I always
(14:26):
proclaimed as a fun thing, but also laying down a marker, is I've always had this 100%
chicken freak guarantee because...
Right.
Yeah, because ever since the start of doing it, I never wanted it to be mysterious in any
way.
I wanted people to know how and why it worked because this thing, as much as I enjoyed seeing
(14:47):
stage hypnosis shows, most of the shows I saw, I wasn't, they were definitely not a style
that either, you know, people were doing embarrassed things or put over like, "Oh, this is a bit
of a power I have."
And stuff like that, when I was wanted people to know, like, it's, this is basic psychology.
You know, how you can use your mind to get yourself in that kind of state of mind and use your
imagination and all this kind of thing.
(15:09):
So I always wanted to modernise it, but so one of the first markers I laid down was like,
"No chickens in the show!"
I love it.
And it's funny, it just became a funny little tag line.
Yeah.
So what part did visualisation play for you met?
Did you, were you seeing yourself on stage and thinking, "Yeah, I can do this because it's
(15:30):
not every day you wake up and think, "I'm going to be a comedy hypnotist."
And so did that play any role for you?
Yeah.
Because I think for a lot of people it would have to.
Yeah, absolutely.
I've always been a very, very visual thinker.
And so I think even before I knew what visualisation was, I was naturally doing that anyway.
And now I do it purposely.
But I was constantly seeing things, you know, how things work in my mind and placing myself
(15:55):
in that situation.
I think radio played a big part of that because that, you know, obviously one of the terms
we're using radio as an industry term is, you know, radio is theatre with the mind.
And it is because you're purely auditory medium, but you're hoping to paint that picture
in people's mind.
So, you know, with radio you're doing that naturally and purposefully all the time.
(16:16):
And so of course, you know, when I was thinking about doing this show, I was seeing myself doing
this show because that's the thing.
If you're, if you can't see yourself doing it, if you can't imagine yourself doing it,
you're working against yourself already.
And you can change that way of thinking, you know, you can force that image of like, okay,
well, even though I'm not that sure I can do this, let me imagine if I could, like, what
(16:37):
would that look like in my mind?
But I already had that thing of like, I saw a hip and dis do a show once and I thought,
well, he could have, you know, I probably could.
So I could at least see myself doing it in my mind.
And yeah, that, that definitely helps me work towards actually believing it was possible
and carrying through with at least testing that theory out and going all in on me like,
(17:03):
will it, will not, will it or will not work for me?
Will it, and also will I or will I not enjoy it?
Because I didn't know that.
And this wasn't about setting out a career path which would find me, you know, 15 years
later with TV shows and world tours and all sorts of things behind me because of it.
It was just basically like, let's see, let's put a show together.
(17:26):
It could have just been the one, could have enjoyed it, but decided I didn't really want to do
it as something to earn money.
It could have been a financial disaster.
All right, it could have just not worked or could have all these different things, but I
at least saw myself in my mind being able to do it.
So enough to give it a go and see what happened.
So having that vision, do you think that helped through the challenges because there must
(17:47):
have been setbacks and challenges along the way as well?
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, what were some of those that you encountered?
Well, I think the main thing is at the time there was no one doing shows.
So it was interesting because some people was like, you can look at this in two ways.
It's a very unique niche.
No one else in the local market was doing hipnotic shows.
(18:08):
There was just no one.
But on the other side of that, it means there was no demand for it either.
So the challenge.
Yeah, you know?
So it's not like, you know, eventually obviously, you know, you've got taken up by various
entertainment agents, but they didn't have 10 hypnotists on their book.
They didn't have one hypnotist on their book, you know?
(18:30):
So whereas you might go to an entertainment agency, hey, can you give us some ideas for
your end of your event and they go, sure, you know, do you want to audition?
Do you want to band?
Do you want to carry over?
Do you want to comedian?
Do you want to balance things?
Act or whatever.
But there's multiples of a lot of things, especially musicians and bands and things like
that.
And then you can hear that someone would come out and go, no, actually do you have a hypnotist?
(18:51):
And so, yeah, so that market didn't really exist.
So I kind of had to create that market.
Again, you know, if you just proclaim that you're a comedy hypnotist, people don't come
to you and go, cool, let's book you.
They want to see that you've done it.
They want to see some proof.
They want to see that other people enjoy it.
So my initial challenge was, well, I need to put shows on myself that I have video and
(19:14):
photos and feedback from audiences and proof that this is a thing that I can competently
do and it might be great for other people, whether it's a public venue that wants to book me
or whether it's somebody who wants to book me for an event that they can have the confidence
in doing so.
So, yeah, that big, big challenge was that actually no one was wanting a hypnotist
(19:35):
time.
Oh my goodness.
But then, you know, but then you start getting the gigs.
I see that, you know, on Facebook that you were getting gigs on mind sites and comedy festivals
and, you know, people are flying you to different locations to do corporate gigs and all
this sort of stuff.
And this starts to look like a full-time job, maybe not a career at this stage, a job.
(19:58):
And then I just remembered that I see a photo of you and Mike Tyson from memory that you
even know did him as well.
So, how is this feeling at this stage because suddenly you'll, there must have been that little
turning point where you thought, hey, I can make a life of this.
Yeah, I do know what it was.
(20:18):
I think what happened was I got invited, that's, that thing that Tyson came out because I
was in Vegas talking at a hypnosis training event.
And so, that was one of those things.
I was like, well, I've been doing this thing on my own and then through the power of social
media, even at that point, other people.
And then, in the industry, I started to take note and I, you know, got invited, I did want
(20:41):
to come and talk at this training event because it seemed like what I was doing, I was doing
it well and people seemed to like it and seemed to be a slightly different take on how it
had been and I was like, well, maybe I'm pretty good at this.
I mean, I knew I was doing the shows, okay, you know, the shows felt good to me in that.
But that was really nice.
I was like, well, maybe I do have legs in this because it did seem to snowball very,
(21:04):
very quickly, you know.
It did.
And so, really, realistically, within a couple of years, I was working absolutely full-time
within a couple of years of starting that even within the year, I think, but within two
years, I was already traveling a lot with the show, so not just doing shows locally.
I was getting booked for different things and first little bit TV came along and stuff like
(21:26):
that.
So, that kind of happened very quickly.
And your lovely wife, Catherine, who had her own successful career, prior to meeting
you.
And this takes off and then she takes a huge leap of faith as well and gives away her career
to become your manager.
So, what was that like for Catherine to leave her high profile job to start traveling
(21:50):
the world with her?
Yeah.
So, this is an interesting way.
This developed because what happened with me is as much as my career as a hypnotist
and before that, my career was a radio guy and things like that.
I've not been someone who's like, "I live in Breathe Radio, why I live in Breathe Hypnotist,
I've just loved doing those things as my job, but I have all these other things in my life
(22:12):
that I absolutely love doing, you know, I'm surfing, I'm traveling, I'm going to have
a coffee, I'm walking the dog, blah, blah, blah, blah, so having this very flexible job
now of shows which sometimes would be occasioned to be a couple in a week, but then sometimes
you might have a break of two weeks before there was another show.
So, you know, that made it be very flexible for me to just suddenly go, "I don't have a show
(22:37):
for a couple weeks, I can still want some emails and they're trying to develop some business,
but why don't I just pop up to Bali for five days and answer any emails from there while
I'm surfing all day?"
You know, so the problem with that was, was that, unfortunately, you know, Catherine had
a very good job in corporate finance that she'd been 20 years in the same company and that
(23:00):
comes with the corporate holidays of, you have to request your holiday and you only get
so many holidays a year and that doesn't afford you being able to go and kind of just
pop up to Bali with your husband next week just because he found that a cheap flight,
generally found a cheap flight on Tuesday to go, or they can't think so.
We've got this point where Catherine had been in that company so long she was allowed
(23:26):
to take a year off without pay and still have that job open to come back to.
So, yeah, so what the plan was, was like, "Okay, if I get to a point where I've booked
in a certain amount dollar value of worth of bookings in the future, so we know that's
(23:46):
going to come in, providing, I'll do those shows."
Then we know that's business that will pay the mortgage and everything like that and
we can test Catherine working in the business because what had happened was I couldn't
grow the business more because I was too busy doing the shows.
So I could do more shows but I didn't have the time to develop the business side to actually
(24:11):
get those extra shows.
So we thought, well, look, we don't need to match what Catherine's earning now in a business.
But for us to both have a very flexible, enjoyable life, there's a certain figure that my hypnosis
business would need to hit to cover both of us having a more flexible lifestyle together.
(24:33):
So we just said, let's try this for a year.
Once we triggered that, okay, we've got enough business already for this year.
Now let's flip Catherine into the business and see if with her business skills, if she
can develop the business further to make this more sustainable as a thing.
Of course, we didn't know even if we worked well together either.
(24:55):
No, and it would be a whole new skill set also for Catherine, I imagine, its PR and it's
so all of that.
She would have never believed that she would have a enduring career in the arts after being
a corporate banker.
No, never the two-shell meet.
So consequently, we tried that back in 2014 and here we are in 2025 and proud and happy to
(25:17):
say that Catherine is still my manager and producer and it's worked incredibly well.
We did have to learn to work around each other in the ways that we work because we both
work very differently because it's not that Catherine does every single bit of the office
stuff.
There's a lot of social side and media side and bits and pieces that I do.
So consequently, I do a lot of admin as well but we very quickly discovered that we don't
(25:43):
work the same in the same office.
So we had a home office at home and so we consequently we ended up making sure we had two
home offices at home because we worked differently.
Catherine was very structured, had a really good business planning way and whereas I was
like, "I'm doing this but oh, Surfs, I'll pop down now or like, oh someone just call
(26:04):
me a foot coffee, I'll go down now and I'll do this later so I'll just go back to the
office."
So I was very flexible and yeah, so we have very different ways of working but once we kind
of got around that we worked out a really good way of working together and that is something
that wasn't a guarantee because just because you're in love with someone doesn't mean
that you're spending your work together is a natural conclusion.
(26:25):
And the amount of people say to us, "Oh my god, I could never work with my husband or
you could never work with my wife."
But fortunately it's worked really well for us and we both enjoy the travel of where this
job takes us and we leverage that.
So for example, I had a, well I've actually just got a cruise ship actually, I've just been
(26:46):
on a cruise ship the last few days and so Catherine came on with me with that.
It's great, we're on the ship for five days but I just do one night of shows so we do the
stops like anybody else does but it's a lovely time and we feel like a passenger except
I get paid and pop up and do a couple of shows in a beautiful theatre and then you know
with a few weeks ago we were in Vietnam at a big conference doing a corporate event for
(27:11):
a big company and so we flew in a few days early and so that 45 minute show that I end
up doing for that conference ended up becoming part of a six day trip away for us all because
of work.
So we really leverage the work.
So consequently, do we both earn as much as we would if Catherine had been in her corporate
(27:33):
finance role and I maybe developed the business a bit more?
No, definitely not but the freedom it's given us has been amazing.
We've had a incredibly amazing time and we'll continue to do so in the way that we worked.
And that's exactly what you can't put a price tag on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's why I've created this podcast to help demonstrate that we can create these
(27:56):
lives.
I mean, it's not everyone's idea to be on cruise ships and Vietnam the next day and you
know, that's not everyone's dream life but I think the main word that you're using there
is work.
I mean, it's not just that you wish for thinking and this is this fabulous life that's
just happening to you.
You've actually created it and hats off to you because it's just an amazing story and
(28:18):
as an outsider, you know, an old work colleague and you just sort of follow your steps on
Facebook, it's just amazing to see that, oh, now you're doing this and now you're doing that
and oh, look, there you are with Mike Tyson and you know, and now you're doing a month at
Edinburgh Fringe and you know, it's just this incredible journey which has been so lovely
(28:39):
to watch from the sidelines but it's not all smooth sailing is it because there are setbacks
and I imagine something like COVID would have had a huge impact on you guys.
So, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
How have you navigated that because I know you talk about not fearing failure but tomorrow
there could be some article about the dangers of comedy hypnotists and suddenly you're
(29:02):
gix get canceled.
I mean, how do you navigate that?
Yeah, well, I mean, obviously you can take COVID as the as the example because it happens.
So that realistically was where one day we were finishing up our Adelaide Fringe run
of 27 shows and the next day it was locked down and oh, we actually didn't know when we
(29:24):
be able to work again because we're suddenly the thing which has been amazing which was
like travel and working with big groups of people on stage together.
So, suddenly became almost the worst things to be doing.
Couldn't travel, couldn't have people next to each other, couldn't have contact.
It became like, wow, I don't even know if and when this returns is this even,
(29:49):
I'm going to be viable ever again.
And so at that time it was obviously a bit of a wait and see but we had to obviously still
try and look at what could do in the meantime.
So I took my other side of my hypnotic tool belt and started running online group sessions
(30:10):
for all sorts of things.
Actually, anxiety relief was one of the biggest things during COVID of course but you know,
reduced drinking, your mind set to be able to reduce your alcohol intake, common things
like quitting smoking and now obviously quitting vaping as well.
I pivoted to doing a lot of one-on-one Zoom sessions with people but also some group Zoom
(30:30):
sessions with people doing that and I put out some online courses for different things.
So, yeah, I just had to kind of pivot to doing some online stuff but the entertainment side
of it during that obviously went to nothing except for me fully embracing TikTok just
for my own sanity of loving doing stupid stuff on video.
But yeah, the actual show side of stuff obviously completely dried out.
(30:54):
So, yeah but that was one of the things that well, what skills do I have?
I still had a lot of skills that could be translated to a different style and yeah, that
was kind of able to get through with that.
Yeah, so I never kind of fear like something happening that which would make me unable
to stand on a stage or something like that.
(31:14):
I know there's always going to be something I'll be able to do with the knowledge and skills
I've built up that they'd be transferable to something.
That's where mind set is so important isn't it?
I mean, that's you absolutely excel in terms of that sort of positive mindset and just
that attitude of, okay, we're in lockdown, I can't do my shows, what can I do?
(31:37):
And so many people are only focused on what they can't do.
How much of a role does mindset play in just your day-to-day life and your career?
Oh absolutely huge, absolutely hugely because for a starter you'd never leave a full-time
job in employment with paid holiday, paid sick leave, superannuation and that kind of thing.
(32:01):
If you didn't at least have a positive outlook on what you're about to attempt, may vaguely
be possible but it could also not work out as well and you'd have to navigate that so you
definitely need to be looking at it from a positive side because I think a lot of people
do look at situations and a lot of people said to me, "I wish I could find a job where I
could travel with or I wish I didn't have to request my holiday or whatever it is" but
(32:27):
the fact is is that those people are probably coming from a mindset of not believing that
there's a possibility for them whereas I've always gone from that other side of thinking
and sometimes incorrectly thinking about thinking, "I could probably do that but also
never, never been afraid of failure." Obviously I don't want things to fail but I know that
(32:50):
if I fail at least I know that that wasn't the thing for me or actually I can't do that
but also along the way of those failings something else comes up, you either meet someone that
leads to something else or you find a little new skill that you were good at that in that
thing but it didn't end up being the thing that led to the thing you were originally going for
(33:11):
or things like that so I think too often with mindset you're taught that like you've got
to lean into it and believe that you can do it, you can do it, you can do your whole body,
your whole mind, your whole spirit and that but I actually, I don't think that's the case,
I just think like, you can be realistic, you can be realistic and kind of go, "I
(33:33):
could put my money into it, I could, lots of hard work into it and it could still go wrong,
of course it could but I'm still going to give it a go because what's the worst going to happen?"
The worst that can happen is like, "Oh it didn't work out, well I'll try something else"
or "it didn't work out and I'm going to have to find another way of getting this money or whatever
(33:54):
it is but I've always come from that side of, I've just never wanted to die not knowing."
I find those little niggles too loud to not address those little, those in a voices that you talk about,
those however you frame them, I've always found that they're too loud to ignore
(34:14):
and sometimes they're in very quick turn around and be like, "Oh I should give it a try there,
and then sometimes it does take years for me, the hypnosis thing, I've been
dabbing with hypnosis for the last 20s but it was not until my late 30s that I actually put a show
together, that was a very long little thing in the back of my mind before it counter-fruition.
(34:38):
Yeah well that's similar to with this podcast I suppose, for me it's always been there and it
just got to the point where I thought, "I can't not do it because it keeps saying, come on,
do this thing." And you know when it first started and it's only been a handful of episodes so far
but it's been so fabulous, I suppose when you started podcasts you have to start with people that
(35:03):
you know but no one has said no so far, everyone's gone, "Yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm happy to tell my story."
That's fantastic and that's the thing and also that same thing I was like you should never be
afraid of reaching out to people who you may, you're initially thinking, "Oh they'll never come on,
they'll have too busy, they're too famous, they're too blah blah blah" because you know what,
you could send that message and they could just resonate with what you're asking them about and they're
(35:25):
like, "I'd love to do that for this person" or "I know what it was like when I was starting out" or
"I know you know what I mean" so you know again that's that thing I've not limited in yourself on
where you reach because what's the worst that could happen if you reach out and say, "Would you come
on, pop my podcast?" and someone says, "Now it's like, oh no worries, but you could have let, but they
could say no but tell you what you should, you should speak to this person and then they'd love
(35:48):
to do it." So that's that thing of like being open to believing the possibility that it could work
out but also being open to the fact that that might not necessarily work out but something's going to
come from it so yeah but also something that you just you just mentioned then and things worth
expanding on is, I always think that people when you see, "Oh there's Belle doing a podcast,
(36:09):
there's Matt doing a stage him notice a show" if you say, "I want to start podcast, I want to
a show" it seems like a mountain to climb right but you don't have to go zero to a hundred
you know it in you don't have to be like, "Oh now I wasn't a hip-nissist and now I'm doing five shows
a week or whatever it is" you know like just the smallest steps will start that journey.
(36:31):
The smallest achievable step so for example, you know if you wanted to start podcast and you've
never done anything like that before, the smallest thing of googling like, "How do I register for
a podcast?" or coming up with a domain name, a registry website, you know those are things are
very very simple to do but there's still a key part of the journey but it sets you on the step because
(36:53):
if you have them registered a name for your podcast then you're probably going to take the next step
and what do our next do? How do I, what microphone do I need to get well on Google? You know so
it's it's those things whereas I think some people will look at things and kind of go, "Oh my god how
would you ever do that or how would you ever do this?" because they only see the the top of the
mountain and that just seems too far to climb but they don't see that first little step or handrail
(37:17):
at the bottom that you've got to attach yourself to which is super easy super simple but once you kind
of set yourself on the way you you want to do that next step you want to do that next step one of
the next step and then suddenly, "Oh god I've booked myself this thing I'm doing now, I've booked a venue
or you know I'm doing my first recording or whatever it is" you know so I must mention the Tadex talk
because I think it's fabulous that you gave the power of probably and you've talked about that a little
(37:42):
bit here can you share what that is all about and how it's shaped your choices over the years?
I tell you how I came to realising it. I went from being like the other side of radio where
you're trying to get guests in and things like that to actually you know becoming the guests on
radios and then I found there's a lot of common questions that people want to ask you about
(38:04):
you know how you got started to do that, hypnotist and things like that and I would quite honestly say
"oh yeah so someone doing a show and I thought "oh I could probably do that" and then people were kind of
laugh as if I just made a joke and I'm like this is quite a common thing and then I realise like
this is okay this is obviously not the way most people think so you know I realise that most people
(38:25):
don't look at things and just kind of go "well there's someone doing it it's a thing so I could probably
do it" I then realised that as a percentage probably more people look at things and kind of go
"geez I wish I could do that" but like then their default thinking is all obviously I wouldn't be
able to because I'm not like that person or I'm not able to you know stand or hear or I'm not able to
(38:48):
do this but I realised that if you actually look at it from the I can probably do that perspective
it just opens up more opportunities because that willingness to think you can do it but being happy
to fail ends up giving you more successes in the long term because surely you may fail at a few things
(39:10):
but you definitely gonna have a few wins along the way whereas if you look to it and kind of get
"nah I wish you could do it" obviously I probably can't do that" then you just not even gonna try
there's gonna be no result from anything either way no small win no big win no knowledge of yes or
no I could do it or not you just don't know so I just realised that coming from that looking at it
(39:34):
as you know I can probably do that way of thinking is a big plus and I always say to people
because sometimes people say "yeah but I don't think about that" and I just say to them "well why don't you
think I probably can begin to think about that" that really is a starting point
(39:54):
maybe you need to start thinking that you can think or like "yeah well about it yeah I probably
can think about that let me try it and see what happens" I probably can think I can probably
do that yeah so have you had any little niggles you know I mean you've been doing this as you said
for 15 years now but are you gonna become a chef or what's that being? oh sorry yeah oh I guess so
(40:20):
there's always things but I've been so busy with my shows because obviously they
became such a big thing and I write shows that I tour with and when I'm doing festivals basically
you're not essentially getting booked for a festival you're you're finding a venue to become part
that venue and then you're responsible for the marketing and you know you literally tens of
(40:40):
thousands of dollars in the hold before you've even sold a ticket which you get percentage of so
bit by bit you know you climb in that the whole so going into a festival run you're realistically
spend months before that working on it whether it's right in the show promoting the show design
in the artwork marketing the show doing press and media for sure all these different things so it's
(41:00):
very time-consuming that they're they're also incredibly fun it does restrict me time-wise sometimes
on some other things I want to try but as I am able to manage that time better like this year actually
took a couple of festivals off this year so get gave a bit more time but my first career was as a DJ
in clubs and I've always managed to keep DJing alive in the background and do the odd set here and
(41:25):
there but it's something I still want to lean into further and I start producing a bit of my own music
but it's something I've just done oh I haven't had enough time to do so as something that's in the back
of my mind which is always like oh yeah I get back to the laptop to start working on this or put a
big dance music event on that kind of thing I'll be doing a few more of those probably next year
(41:51):
or either late this year or next year I do I do actually have a crossover project with my DJ
background and my hip not at correct background I have a project called the club notice experience which is
a called it a guided visualization to dance music it happens in a dance floor it's fully interactive
basically I'm doing a DJ set but with a mic headset mics on DJing this very specific set
(42:16):
but also getting people to close their eyes at certain times picture things I've got custom visuals
that go with it and it's a very emotionally charged very uplifting hour you know it's on the
dance for its dancing it's stillness it's everything across his hour so it combines that thing of like
you know it is hypnotic when you find yourself on a dance floor and you lose yourself in music that's
(42:40):
why we say things like that you know you do go into a trance with music you just completely lose yourself
in that world so that is something that probably next year or even later this year will come back so
there's always something shouting in the background but trust me it will get itched oh that is
so good to hear well you're in the UK at the moment and you will be performing for a full month
(43:03):
I think with only one day off I think it is at the Edinburgh Springs yes 2025 just in case somebody's
listening to this in 2020/17 yes would you like to give it a quick plug as to where you'll be the
people what they can expect and how to get tickets and things yeah it's such a fun show it's a very
if you've ever seen a hipnotic show it's very different from a rig in a hipnotic show I keep getting told
(43:25):
very upbeat fun fast pace I've been up just as much an idiot on stages just to set the scene for
everybody right at the start it's a sing along it's a party more than a show I always say and especially
this year because it's a 90s theme hipnotic show everyone either loves or hates but equally enjoys
the love or hate relationship with some of those tunes we play but yeah so you you can find me
(43:47):
at the Edinburgh fringe this year 2025 from July 30 to August 25 with fun believable but I'm always
touring so if you are listening in the future do look me up I've gone viral over the last year with over
150 million views online so there's a lot of silly videos out there on tiktok and we just put the
same videos on instagram and facebook as well so you can finally mat high or hipnotist or hipno
(44:11):
high but yeah always always feel free to get in touch anyone listening as well because I love
connecting with people so people and DM me any questions as well yeah fantastic you are the one of the
richest people I know and like I said at the start it's got nothing to do with how much is in your bank
account but but because you really have created such a rich life for yourself and for Catherine
(44:34):
the two of you doing it together and I think it's just truly an inspirational story so Matt Hale
thank you so much for taking the time to share your story and wisdom absolutely pleasure
it's been lovely chatting and I think it just goes to show what can happen when we listen to that
little voice take a leap of faith and trust that we can probably do that even if it means starting
(44:56):
from zero so remember you don't have to blow up your whole life overnight sometimes just the
tiniest step is all it takes to set something extraordinary in motion I'm blin dali this is step
into me helping you find the courage to be true to yourself
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