April 18, 2025 • 41 mins
Helpful episodes to listen to first
Episode 40 - Website and Email Filtering
Episode 56 - Home Network Attacks From Within
Episode 57 - How Firewalls Protect You And What You Might Be Missing
Questions we answer in this episodeWhat is a trojan horse?
What are two ways an outbound firewall protects you?
What is an outbound firewall's greatest frustration and greatest strength?
What is an allow list?
Episode summaryIf you want to protect your computer, you need both an inbound and outbound firewall.
Almost nobody uses an outbound firewall - despite it's awesomeness.
The firewall limits the damage malware can do by blocking it from phoning home or spreading through your network.
Sure, you'll need to pay attention when your firewall asks you questions.
But that tiny hassle is worth the warm fuzzy you'll get knowing that only apps you trust can make outbound calls.
Call to actionJoin the tiny but elite crowd of people using an outbound firewall.
If you're on a Mac, get Little Snitch Mini.
If you're on Windows or Linux, get Portmaster by Safing.
Then report back on the forum how it goes.
LinksMark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Super Simple Security Principles. I'm Nick Jackson and I want to
love computers but they don't want to love me back. I am learning how to stay
safe online from a good buddy of mine, my master guardian, Makani Mason. He
wrote his first computer program at the age of six. This filled his face as a
(00:25):
computer nerd and guys, he knows his stuff. He knows it. Now he spends his time each week
teaching people like you and me how to stay ahead of the bad guys, hallelujah
folks. He keeps it super simple and we love it. Learn along with me each week. I
(00:48):
ask questions and make sure he keeps it super relevant and simple for us. If I
can do it, you can do it. We got this. Let's dive in. This is episode 59. Dude,
kind of crazy. Oh yeah. Why everyone needs an outbound firewall. Here are the
(01:13):
questions we'll be answering in today's episode. What is the Trojan horse? Dude,
not to play spoiler, but I know this one from experience, from rough personal
experience. It is a virus and as I recall, it's nasty. Anyways, what are two ways an
(01:35):
outbound firewall protects you? Two ways, yes. Dude, my first thought was, what's a
firewall again? It's a good thing we keep things simpler out here, so no worries.
What is an outbound firewall's greatest frustration and greatest strength? My
(01:56):
guess is its effectiveness. That's a guess. I'm guessing, so we'll find out.
What is an allow list? Is that like a web and app approval type list? Let's see.
All right, man. Dude, I'm kind of pumped. I'm kind of pumped. Initially, I was
(02:21):
like, this could be difficult to take in. Dry and scary, I think are some of the words you use.
Dry and scary were the words I used. I was like, yikes, this could be dry and scary. But then you threw that
(02:43):
first question in, and what's Trojan horse? I was like, okay, so you got me because I've had
experience with this. It was brutal. Let me set it up this way too, Nick,
because I think this is something that will appeal to a lot of listeners and I
suspect you've had some experience with. I get a lot of questions from people of
(03:05):
what tools they need to install on their computer to keep it safe. Now, for
years, most people, and I still get this a lot, is what antivirus should I
use? A lot of people feel like VPN, they want to throw that in the mix too.
But honestly, and we've talked about my first recommended tool, but anyway, so
(03:28):
actually before I get into that, that's kind of my premise, is this is
why I feel like this is interesting, because this is my second
answer, basically, to the tools that you want to use to keep your computer safe.
Antivirus, we'll talk about that later, but this is something I just get so much.
One of the most basic questions, because there's commercials on TV about this
(03:50):
security suite, there's the Norton security suite, there's the PCmatic,
there's all these things, right? And when people ask me, I'm like, well, I'm not super
enthusiastic about it, right? So this is what my answer is. Okay, so let me rephrase
this if I could. If you're asking our Master Guardian, or you're thinking to
(04:14):
yourself, I wonder what Makani would do to keep my computer safe, this is gonna be
his second response, right? Second response. This is gonna be his
second response, so this is gonna be big. Yeah, exactly. That's why I'm excited
about it, because number one, we did in episode 57, right? Yeah. And that's
(04:38):
your inbound firewall. Yep, yep, I remember that one. The second one is, you
know, kind of a compliment to it, but it's the outbound firewall. Okay. But the
interesting thing is, you know, we talked about in that one, almost everybody these
days has an inbound firewall. The operating systems, Mac and Windows, and
(04:59):
Linux, I suspect, although I don't use that daily on a home computer, but they
have them built in. And so most people are using those. Excellent. But an outbound
firewall, by comparison, almost nobody uses. I don't have the stats on that, but
very, very low, despite its awesomeness. So that's part of the other reason why
(05:23):
I'm excited about it, is because it's just, it's a big win. And not only does
it help you keep your computer safe, but one of its unique things is the way it
does it, it helps you actually know and have, at least have some hope or
confidence, more than just hope, I should say, really, that it's keeping your
(05:45):
computer safe. Does that make sense? Let me paraphrase. Okay, you ready? Okay, so our
first answer, just to help people remember, is an answer that we told you
how to make sure those settings were on, and how to do a couple of key things, a
(06:12):
most of the times, they're coming with these features. Second, this is where we
get to finally get our hands dirty, we get to build up some defense. Yeah, well,
so we'll table that for now, because we'll get back, it'll make a lot more sense once
we actually discuss what the outbound firewall does, because it has kind of a
(06:37):
unique contribution, at least in my mind, compared to antivirus and VPN, and even
an inbound firewall. And that's, but that's the greatest feature and, or, you
know, the question, the frustration and greatest feature. But we gotta, we
gotta work up to that one, so we're gonna have to hang tight on what that looks
like, exactly. Okay, okay, I'm excited. Hey, you did it, you did it, mission
(07:04):
accomplished. I think we're ready, I think we're ready. You took dry and dull, or what
did I say? Dry and scary. Dry and scary, yes, that's right, dry and scary, and you got
me ready to go. So let's jump in, man, where are we starting? Okay, so we just first
need to understand just a little bit about what it does. Okay. And, you know, you
(07:28):
kind of alluded in the opening questions that maybe you've forgotten, you know,
maybe, or our listeners might, what an inbound firewall does, right? So quick
recap there is an inbound firewall limits these computer calls, as we talk
about them, phone calls, so to speak, that your computer can accept. So very
(07:52):
similarly, an outbound firewall limits the outbound calls that can be made from
your computer, right? So if you think about your home, you know, what calls
you're going to accept, so obviously we don't do this in our home, we don't, we
don't normally, like, you know, restrict who can make what phone calls at home,
right? Yeah. That's a different parallel, but that's what we're talking about here.
(08:15):
Yeah. Now, we've talked about it a lot, we even named an episode about it, do you
remember, have I beat it into your head enough yet, Nick, that you can
tell me what our simple inbound firewall rule is? Oh, badger, put me on the spot, I
always hate when you put me on the spot. Help me out, give me a tip, give me a hint.
(08:42):
Regarding which inbound calls we should accept. Don't answer the phone. Oh, yeah.
Don't answer the phone. Yeah. No, that's okay. Don't answer those
Kobe calls, just don't answer them. Right. It's a simple rule, you just don't answer them at all,
(09:05):
period, right? I remember this by, it's the don't answer the unknown call, unbound,
the inbound coming phone call that you don't recognize. Oh, right, unknown call or
whatever, right. Yeah, you know, that's how I look at it, just so you could get into
(09:26):
our psyche. Yeah, okay. Yeah, although see, it's even more extreme than that, because we
don't even really, for most people, we don't actually like have a known or
unknown. Right. We just don't accept any, right? Right. But as it turns out, and
we'll talk about this more in just a second, but it's, that's kind of similar
to what the outbound thing is, but first, that simple rule, it won't work for an
(09:51):
outbound firewall, right? Because, right, we need our computers to make a lot of
outbound calls. Right, that makes sense. Like, yeah, we're asking them to make
outbound calls all the time, right? Right. Oh, yeah, you want to go browse, you want
to go connect to a website, that's an outbound call. You want to send a message,
(10:12):
you know, you want to check your email, any of those things, basically
everything. I mean, anytime you're doing anything on the internet, that is an
outbound call you're making. Yeah. Right, so what we want to do, it's actually kind
of similar to the unknown caller thing, just in the other direction, so I don't
know if that just makes it more confusing, but the way I would say it is,
(10:35):
we just want to make sure that only apps we trust are allowed to make outbound
calls. That's the level at which we're isolating how outbound calls can make.
Okay, we're talking about a computer, but then within that computer, this app is
making outbound calls, like calls originate from individual apps or the
(10:57):
operating system itself. Yeah. Right, and so when we install apps, we want to say,
okay, this app can make calls, and obviously any app that we're
intentionally installing, right, that means we want to allow it to make
outbound calls. Yeah. So maybe this sounds kind of like, duh, what's the
(11:18):
point, right? Right. But the idea is, if something gets installed that we did not
want to install, that snuck onto our computer in some fashion, that's a
whole different topic, but if there's malware that gets onto our
computer and we haven't said that can make outbound calls, then it won't be
(11:39):
able to. That's what an outbound firewall can do for us. Nice. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay.
So, yeah, go ahead. While you were explaining this, I was thinking of the
(12:00):
movie Wreck-It Ralph, Wreck the Internet or something like that. I'm not exactly
sure. Oh yeah, uh-huh. Have you seen that? I've seen it. I don't remember it super well,
but go ahead. Yeah, so I was thinking about these outbound calls and outbound
calls from our specific apps that we make, etc., and I was thinking about how, you
(12:23):
know, I've always kind of worried because something sneakily get in, and so this is
the solution to that. That's exactly right. So, okay, awesome.
Let's go. You made that super simple. Well, good, and so let's tie it back to our
opening question to the allow list, right, because this is a good general
(12:46):
concept to understand, and this is basically an outbound firewall implements
an allow list, and all an allow list is is if something hasn't been put on the
allow list, then it's not allowed, like it's automatically locked. Right, it's not
allowed to make those calls, and if there's no connection, there's
(13:07):
essentially no worry. Yeah, well, and you know the other kind of
list that people are used to is, you know, we call them a blacklist or a block list,
right, and so then it's only things that are on the list are prohibited from
making calls or from whatever, you know, website filtering. Like when back in, way
(13:30):
back, this was a long time ago, so I don't expect you or any of our listeners
necessarily to remember, but if you want a refresher on allow list and block list,
we talked about it back in episode 40, and in that context, we were talking about
websites, for example, and in there, a better approach is to do a block list. We
want to block some bad websites. Yeah, but in this case, a safer approach, like
(13:55):
there's just different situations where you want to use an allow list and some
situations where you want to use a block list, right? Yeah, that makes sense. That
makes sense, and so for apps and for an outbound firewall, the more useful
approach, the safer, effective approach, is to use an allow list because, like you
said, something might have snuck on there, and that's the whole point. You want, you
(14:19):
want to assume that it's bad until you approved it. Right, yep. Okay, so any other
questions there before we talk about the two specific protections that this
provides against malware that does sneak on there? No, I think we're ready for that
(14:42):
next step. Okay. I'm ready. Okay, so this is, we're gonna talk about the Trojan
Horse for a second to help talk about what this is. So, obviously, you have a
Trojan, or you have experience with your computer on a Trojan Horse. We're gonna
have you, I want you to probably share, well, maybe next episode, because I know we talked
(15:04):
about it a little bit, and I want you to get into all the details probably next, next
episode, but what I'll say about Trojan Horse here is it is a delivery mechanism,
and so, in other words, it could range from just minor harm all the way to massive harm,
(15:26):
but in explaining how it works, like, do you know the original story of, like, the Trojan Horse,
where we got the name from for the computer virus? Yeah. I think, I would say you probably do. Yeah.
You want to tell just a two-sentence version of it? Or I can. A massive army snuck into a wooden
(15:48):
horse that they left at the gates, you know, they brought the horse into the gates, they conquered
the city. Yeah, well, well, actually, what they did was, there was just a small, because, you know,
you can only fit so many in the, in the horse, right, and so, right, and then the Trojans brought
the horse into their city after the Greeks supposedly, like, sailed away, and then at night,
(16:13):
the few people who had snuck in, in the, were, they were hiding in the Trojan Horse, then went
open the gates for the whole big army. Ah, see? Right. That's why I needed your explanation. Yeah,
yeah, that's good. I mean, I reread it. I didn't remember exactly what it was, but anyway, that's,
(16:34):
okay, so, and, and so, a Trojan Horse, in this context, it's kind of a similar idea, right,
because what we're dealing with here, the outbound firewall is not going to stop that Trojan Horse
from getting in, in the first place. It's also not going to provide complete protection against
all the different kinds of damage that a Trojan Horse virus could do, because, like I said, there's
(17:00):
a lot of different, it's a delivery mechanism for viruses, so there's, that's a whole different,
like, there's lots of attacks related to a Trojan Horse that gets onto your system, and so there's
different layers of protection for that, but an outbound firewall is definitely one of them,
and it is a, it is a strong one, and here's what it can do. Well, in one sentence, we'll call it
(17:24):
this. It will stop the malware that does get onto your systems from phoning home, okay? That means...
Stops them from opening the gates. Yeah, exactly, right, yeah, right. Sorry, I didn't even tie it
back to the metaphor. Good, yes, thank you for tying it back to the metaphor, right? It stops
them from opening the gates. That's, that's one of the main things it does, which, in terms of
(17:47):
computers, what that means is, one thing malware likes to do is download a lot more malware, you
know? It has to sneak in, it sometimes has to be small to get inside, right? But then, if it can
phone home, it can download a whole bunch more malware onto your systems. Great, here's more.
Let in that army. Exactly, let in the army, right? So, that's one thing it shuts down. Another thing...
(18:11):
Then it seems like it would be easier to squash the attack. Exactly, yes, and that's one of the
key features we're gonna get to, right? Is because, right, at that point, you'll know about it as well,
right? Oh, nice, yes. See? So, I kind of gave a spoil, but that's what we're getting to. This is,
and it's worth repeating, and we'll get into it more, but you will know about it, and this is one
(18:36):
of the key differences. The malware, it's very hard for it to stay hidden, and we'll get into
the specifics of that, but that's one of the key features. Yeah, so the second kind of thing, it's
all connected to the phone home, but I want to give some specific examples there, is, so, say
that small army, they came in, and part of what they did was they scattered around, saw the layout
(19:00):
of the guards, right? And then, they report back to their leaders, okay, here's what everything looks
like, so here's the best way to make the entrance. I mean, obviously, they just threw open the gates, but
that could be another strategy, right? And in computer terms, that's part of what happens, is
sometimes malware will go around and look at all the kinds of devices that are on your home network,
(19:20):
here's the ways we can exploit it, they explore, and so then they can report back, you know, all the
information they find about your home network. Inside the horse, essentially. If the leaders stayed in the horse, and they
sent out a few little spies to spy around, just look around, and they'd come back and report to them.
That's what, yeah, well, as well, sort of, or this might be a cell phone, you know, it was like, back to like
(19:45):
the leaders on outside of the walls, even, and let them know, oh, okay, here's a weak point, you know, this
guards asleep over there, or whatever, you know, okay, I didn't really flesh out the whole metaphor
perfectly. But yeah, so, or, and we won't even try to bring this into the metaphor necessarily. But a
(20:07):
very big thing too, is just stealing any of your data that it can find on there, you know, passwords,
social security, email, whatever, you know, your financial records, anything it can find on your
computers. So, but it blocks all those things, the the scouting of your network, the uploading of your
private data, because all that involves, of course, network, you know, connecting back to home, you
(20:35):
know, those are just a few examples. But that's the big, really big one is it stops malware from phoning
home. That's, I mean, that's a really big win. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so the second protection is, this is, if
you remember, in Episode 56, we talked about an inbound firewall stopping malware from spreading on
(21:00):
your home network. Yeah. Well, same idea here. An outbound firewall is going to do the same in a
little bit different way, but it's going to help stop that malware from spreading to other devices
on your home network. Okay. You know, more is better. An inbound and outbound firewall on every
(21:21):
computer is going to be good protection. Nice. Because it stops, you know, an inbound firewall stops it from
getting infected, right? And an outbound firewall stops it from infecting others if it, if something gets
past its defenses. And so, you know, back to our whole layers of protection, right? Right. Awesome.
(21:48):
Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. It does. Okay. All right. So now we're to the kind of the main, main
thing, which is the kind of the frustration aspect that we, and, and its strength, right? Yeah. Because, so we
(22:11):
talked a minute ago, how an outbound firewall uses the allow list for apps. Yeah. Right. So in practice, what
this means, what it looks like is the first time you run an app, you're going to get a, you know, after you've
installed outbound firewall, of course, right? You would get a pop-up asking, is it okay for this app to connect to
(22:34):
the internet? Yeah. Right. Now, pop-ups tend to be a great source of annoyance for most people. Right? Yeah,
exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so it's something I want to talk about just for a minute, because with the way
security has been going in general, we are already getting an increasing amount of pop-ups asking for every little
(23:00):
different piece of permission for apps. Right? Yeah. And the outbound firewall, well, yes, it adds one more of these
pop-ups. Right? Now, here's the thing. In a lot of ways, these new questions are a good thing, because it means we get
more control over what the apps are doing. We don't just all of a sudden, we install an app and we let them do
(23:24):
anything and everything on our computers that they want. That's been the source of a lot of problems over the years.
So when you see these, just remember, this is, you know, it may not be a perfect approach, we might find better
ways, but it is a step forward in keeping your computer safe. It's you taking control. You know, instead of letting
(23:46):
everything just whimsically, magically, hopefully take care of itself. It's you taking these loose ends and taking
control. You know, so yeah, these are pop-ups that matter. But it's saying like, my guess is it tells us, hey, look,
(24:06):
we're gonna allow this for a certain period of time or with certain parameters that first time going back to what you
were talking about, first time using it, what happens.
Yeah, well, so it's, there's, there's a whole range of depending on how you want to do it. But for most people, my
(24:27):
recommendation, and you can have, depending on the firewall, just have it just be a simple, does this app have
permission to do outbound calls, you know, forever? Or does it not? Yeah, for most people that I mean, that that's
kind of the biggest bang for your buck. Now, I do absolutely like you can have and the firewall I've been using is,
(24:48):
you know, kind of computer geek friendly. So yeah, I mean, I can do it temporary, I can specify the types of calls it
can make, which websites it can talk to. And you can get into all that if you really want to, you know, and that's
only available to you. But for most people, that's just going to be way too much noise. I'm way, way too much noise.
So my recommendation, certainly to start with for anybody is just do the simple, this app, yes. And then if any, you
(25:17):
know, anything that pops up that you don't recognize, you don't understand what it is, you know, you didn't install
intentionally, say no. Yeah, you know, and come to the forum and let me know. So we can talk about it. Right? Like,
yeah.
But does that make sense? Whereas a starting total sense? Yeah. So but part of the thing I want to emphasize here is, you
(25:44):
know, these pop ups can be annoying, and we've got more and more of them. But these, specifically, when I'm talking
about permission pop ups, you know, an outbound firewall is one of these kind of permission pop ups. You can't, you
know, like, if you're not willing to take a moment to read the pop ups, don't install an outbound firewall, because it
(26:04):
won't help you.
It will drive you bonkers.
Yeah, it'll just drive you bonkers. And then you'll just say yes, and it won't do anything. And it'll just make your
other pop up behavior even worse. Because, I mean, this is one of the most fundamental security principles I teach is
learning to pay attention to pop ups, breaking the habit of just ignoring universally all pop ups. You've got to make a
(26:29):
distinction. Cookie pop ups, fine, ignore them and click off reflexively. You know, as long as you're sure it's a cookie pop up,
that's a different, different story. But permission pop ups, please pay attention to.
Do you know how I look at this is my metaphor. This is how I look at it.
(26:49):
Yeah.
Oh,
when they're when you're driving, there are certain road signs that you can kind of ignore.
Oh, yeah, this is exactly the metaphor. Yeah, I've talked about I agree.
Yep. Yep. Yeah, it's stuck in my head since you've got the mile markers. Yeah, the mile markers. Like I ignore those
completely, unless I'm getting off an exit, right? Right. And that's the funny thing. And so I look at it. four way
(27:17):
stops. There's no way in heck, I'm ignoring those. I don't want to get T-boned, you know, two ways, stops like across
highways. Like, you bet I'm stopping like, like, there, there are certain road signs that you got to pay attention to. And
these are to basically some, not to sum it up, but to put it all in a bag is really, what we're doing is we're creating this
(27:49):
defense. And the best way to enforce our defense is by paying attention to the road signs that our pop up is going to give us.
Yep. Yeah. No, it's like that back in. Yeah. No, you're basically being the general, you're overseeing your troops and how
(28:10):
they're administered. Yeah, exactly. And it's important. And I know it, we don't want to, but with the way world's going and
increasing technology, you know, we don't have to become mechanics, but we do have to be a little more. You know, we've got to
learn a little bit. Right. So, so hopefully this show, you can't stay ignorantly blessed. Eventually you got to, you got to
(28:35):
take a step in the right direction. It's not going to get easier. It's only going to get worse. Exactly. So the second half of
this point is we've talked about the frustration of pop-ups, right? So why do I say that this is also, because this is the part
that these pop-ups, I also consider the firewalls greatest strengths. And here's why, because chances are these days, if you, if
(29:02):
one of your devices gets infected with malware, you're going to know about it. We talked about this earlier. You will find out
about it rather than what malware wants to do of staying hidden forever. Because these days, you know, long ago, it didn't
always, it wasn't always the case. But these days, the chances of you getting malware that doesn't try to make any outbound
(29:25):
call is, I mean, I don't know what the statistics are, but it's going to be very low because they just, they all want to, there's so
many reasons to. And so anytime, you know, if it makes an outbound call, your outbound firewall is going to catch it. And
assuming, again, you pay attention to the pop-up, like we've been talking about, you're going to know about it. It won't be able to
(29:45):
stay hidden. You know, that pop-up, it's annoying, but it's also the thing that tells you that you have malware.
Right. It's going to be like, dude, guess what? Troops got in.
Yeah, exactly. But the thing, and so for me, one of the things that that accomplishes is it helps you actually have some
(30:06):
level of confidence. And this goes back to the thing that I get asked a lot from people is, you know, it's like they install
something, but how do they know it's doing anything for them? How do they know that their computer is safe? How do they know
they're being protected at all? Well, an outbound firewall is one of the great answers to that because it will watch and it will
let you know. It can't protect you from everything, but it does do a fantastic job at limiting the damage and especially at
(30:32):
letting you know when something failed.
Nice. Nice. Nice. So, in other words, these are road signs you never ignore. Any that you get, especially if it's all of a sudden red flag and something.
Yep, exactly. And so that's really this one point that we're talking about right now is why I made the title, you know, why everyone
(31:00):
needs an outbound firewall because everyone wants to keep their computer safe and everyone wants to have some confidence that it
actually is safe. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, that's kind of the summary of it. So, awesome. So, I've got one last thing to talk about
now. We're on a little bit long, but that's okay. And I just want to say like what the status is of outbound firewall tools that are
(31:29):
available, right? Yeah. And this won't be heavy, so this should go pretty quick, but the outbound firewall that I have been using since
2011 at least, that's my earliest purchase record, it's called Little Snitch. Okay. I like it. Yeah. It's kind of a funny name, right?
(31:50):
Right. Snitching on the apps that are, you know, making calls. So, it's Mac only. And, but I will say though, it is, I would consider it a
computer geek tool. Okay. Okay. Like it gives you full control over all of it and which means I don't really necessarily recommend it for our
(32:13):
average listener, but I'm just throwing it out there because the makers of Little Snitch in November of 2023, they realized there was a little bit of a
missing thing and they released Little Snitch Mini. Okay. And this is a greatly simplified version, exactly, specifically designed for people like
(32:33):
you, Nick, and the everyday user. Yes. Okay. So, they took all the same power, all the learning experience they've had for the last, you know, what, 15 years,
at least, well, that's actually how long, I'm not sure how they've been around even longer than that, but anyway, and then just put a simple version so you can just do the,
okay, yes to this app and that's it, you know, kind of thing. Little Snitch Mini. Yep, Little Snitch Mini. And the baseline version actually is even free. So, I have to say in full disclosure, I haven't
(33:11):
tested it myself yet. I'm going to be putting it on the computers my wife and kids use, but I do feel very comfortable recommending it. Okay. Now, I know we have predominantly Windows users, just because that's the
general. So, there is one there and I suggest trying out Port Master. Now, we'll have links for these. You don't have to try to, you know, search them or whatever, but it also has a free version and I do use Windows, but primarily for gaming. I'm not a heavy, like,
(33:46):
day-to-day, I don't do my software development on Windows. So, I can't, I'm not like, this is amazing and perfect and everything, but I have had it installed now for, I don't know, six months, a year, I can't remember exactly when I put it on. And I am comfortable, I've done enough research on it and I've had it on there for a while, like, I'm comfortable recommending at least for people to give it a try. Okay.
(34:09):
And so, this is one of those times where I wish I had more experience, I could say, you know, perfect, but I'm kind of hoping that, you know, over time with our community, with our listeners, we can get people using it, sharing experiences on the forum and help me build that, because I'm only one person. I can't test out all the tools all the time, especially with this one too, because outbound firewalls are such, you know, a rarely used tool in general in the population.
(34:35):
You can't even, like, get lots of, you know, YouTube reviews or anything like that. So, anyway, that's my hope is that over time we can help fill in that gap and get people reporting back and gather data on it. So, yeah.
Awesome.
Yeah. And then finally, if you're wondering about, like, your phones, there's not really, there's no outbound firewalls to speak of that I saw there. There's a couple, anyway, nothing worth exploring or using from my perspective at this stage.
(35:10):
Right.
It's a totally different beast. So, anyway. So, that's what we've done.
Can I weigh in for 30 seconds?
Yeah, absolutely.
Isn't this what we kind of learned about one of our previous episodes too with phones and why we recommend Apple over some of these other phones is because Apple does such a good job of thoroughly vetting their apps, you know?
(35:37):
Oh, yeah, that's, I mean, yeah, there's some truth to that.
Okay. Maybe I'm not entirely correct. My bad.
No, no, no. I, well, so I would just caveat, like, I mean, obviously I favor Apple. My only hesitation was there how strongly, you know, like, you know, and like Apple very recently had, you know, an app store breach, but it was such big news because it's so much more rare.
(36:04):
Not breach, exactly, but whatever. They had some, they had malware in one of the apps that was found there.
But as far as this goes, like, in general, apps are a lot more under tighter controls on phones, both Apple and Android, than computers are.
And so that's, I would put the emphasis here, there, rather than Apple versus Android.
(36:31):
This distinction is because phones are a lot more tighter than computers.
Yeah, exactly.
Okay.
Yep.
So if we reach that point, what's our call to action?
Yeah, well, so here's how I want to state it, because, you know, I want you to join the tiny but elite crowd of people using an outbound firewall.
(36:58):
You know, if you're on a Mac, get Little Snitch Mini. If you're on Windows or Linux, it's also available on Linux, get Portmaster.
And then come, and this is an important part of this one. I mean, I always talk about come and talking on the forum.
But this one, I especially want to emphasize, because I need more data. I need to hear other people, how their experiences go.
So I would be super grateful for anybody who would, you know, try it out and report back.
(37:23):
Obviously, it might be six months from now, I know that you report back or a month or whatever, but what your experience looks like with that.
I was going to say, shout out to those that are using them right now. If you're using them, let us know.
You know, if you've got a product that you can speak to that works well, let us know. We'd love to hear about them.
(37:50):
Yeah, well, and I want to backpedal on the six months, because I mean, I'd love to hear what their experience is just installing it.
And then after a week, like, have they had any pops up? Because I know Portmaster, for example, is very heavy into trying to make it so it doesn't ask you too often.
Like it tries to know about a bunch of apps that are OK or whatever. And I haven't installed it.
(38:15):
I almost never install anything on Windows. So I haven't really given it a thorough vetting, you know, at this point.
But anyway. OK, so and of course, the links will be in the in the show notes, but that's awesome.
Dude, that was a good episode, man. Yeah, I was super fun, man. I'd love to talk with you.
(38:41):
Yeah, yeah. Might have been a little long, but hey, I was good. Yeah.
So you're going to get it that way. No, you got to get them excited for the last episode, man.
Oh, I was waiting for you. Thank you. Thank you. I about forgot I was ready to high five.
And this is one of my super exciting sneak peek in the next episode.
(39:07):
OK, next episode is our 10th and final episode of the Home Network series.
Oh, let's go. You made it. You made it. Yeah, let's go. Here we go.
Congratulations. If you've made it through all 10, you guys are amazing.
(39:29):
Thanks for sticking with us. We know we have some specific gals that are listening faithfully.
Yep, yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. So we're wrapping things up with an episode that's designed to inspire you to take action, which I absolutely love.
(39:52):
We really want you to take some action. That said, because we are who we are, it's just one small step.
So, yes, but based on any of the nine call to actions that we use from this series.
(40:13):
So spoiler alert, we might not be reviewing all of those.
So you might have to take a quick listen at the call to actions on each one before you take a peek at this episode.
Yeah, well, and we've been upgrading our show notes a lot, too.
Yeah. Make some of those. Yeah. So that's a quick and easy way to review the call to actions.
(40:37):
And also, if you subscribe to our weekly email, you know, we send out a one minute summary of the episode with the call to action as well.
So, you know, a lot of ways, if you're ready to take calls, actually, we're doing everything we possibly can to make that simple for you to know and see and get to when you have time and that sort of thing.
(40:57):
So that's right. That's right. OK, now I'm ready. Now you're ready.
Are you ready to take action and wondering where to start? Get my Bulletproof My Identity Starter Kit for free.
The seven most vital layers of protection everyone needs. I'll send you one step at a time and help you if you get stuck.
(41:22):
Just go to BulletproofMyID.com and enter your name and email and I will send you the first step.
Again, that's BulletproofMyID.com.
Welcome to Super Simple Security Principles. I'm Nick Jackson and I want to
love computers but they don't want to love me back. I am learning how to stay
safe online from a good buddy of mine, my master guardian, Makani Mason. He
wrote his first computer program at the age of six. This filled his face as a
(00:25):
computer nerd and guys, he knows his stuff. He knows it. Now he spends his time each week
teaching people like you and me how to stay ahead of the bad guys, hallelujah
folks. He keeps it super simple and we love it. Learn along with me each week. I
(00:48):
ask questions and make sure he keeps it super relevant and simple for us. If I
can do it, you can do it. We got this. Let's dive in. This is episode 59. Dude,
kind of crazy. Oh yeah. Why everyone needs an outbound firewall. Here are the
(01:13):
questions we'll be answering in today's episode. What is the Trojan horse? Dude,
not to play spoiler, but I know this one from experience, from rough personal
experience. It is a virus and as I recall, it's nasty. Anyways, what are two ways an
(01:35):
outbound firewall protects you? Two ways, yes. Dude, my first thought was, what's a
firewall again? It's a good thing we keep things simpler out here, so no worries.
What is an outbound firewall's greatest frustration and greatest strength? My
(01:56):
guess is its effectiveness. That's a guess. I'm guessing, so we'll find out.
What is an allow list? Is that like a web and app approval type list? Let's see.
All right, man. Dude, I'm kind of pumped. I'm kind of pumped. Initially, I was
(02:21):
like, this could be difficult to take in. Dry and scary, I think are some of the words you use.
Dry and scary were the words I used. I was like, yikes, this could be dry and scary. But then you threw that
(02:43):
first question in, and what's Trojan horse? I was like, okay, so you got me because I've had
experience with this. It was brutal. Let me set it up this way too, Nick,
because I think this is something that will appeal to a lot of listeners and I
suspect you've had some experience with. I get a lot of questions from people of
(03:05):
what tools they need to install on their computer to keep it safe. Now, for
years, most people, and I still get this a lot, is what antivirus should I
use? A lot of people feel like VPN, they want to throw that in the mix too.
But honestly, and we've talked about my first recommended tool, but anyway, so
(03:28):
actually before I get into that, that's kind of my premise, is this is
why I feel like this is interesting, because this is my second
answer, basically, to the tools that you want to use to keep your computer safe.
Antivirus, we'll talk about that later, but this is something I just get so much.
One of the most basic questions, because there's commercials on TV about this
(03:50):
security suite, there's the Norton security suite, there's the PCmatic,
there's all these things, right? And when people ask me, I'm like, well, I'm not super
enthusiastic about it, right? So this is what my answer is. Okay, so let me rephrase
this if I could. If you're asking our Master Guardian, or you're thinking to
(04:14):
yourself, I wonder what Makani would do to keep my computer safe, this is gonna be
his second response, right? Second response. This is gonna be his
second response, so this is gonna be big. Yeah, exactly. That's why I'm excited
about it, because number one, we did in episode 57, right? Yeah. And that's
(04:38):
your inbound firewall. Yep, yep, I remember that one. The second one is, you
know, kind of a compliment to it, but it's the outbound firewall. Okay. But the
interesting thing is, you know, we talked about in that one, almost everybody these
days has an inbound firewall. The operating systems, Mac and Windows, and
(04:59):
Linux, I suspect, although I don't use that daily on a home computer, but they
have them built in. And so most people are using those. Excellent. But an outbound
firewall, by comparison, almost nobody uses. I don't have the stats on that, but
very, very low, despite its awesomeness. So that's part of the other reason why
(05:23):
I'm excited about it, is because it's just, it's a big win. And not only does
it help you keep your computer safe, but one of its unique things is the way it
does it, it helps you actually know and have, at least have some hope or
confidence, more than just hope, I should say, really, that it's keeping your
(05:45):
computer safe. Does that make sense? Let me paraphrase. Okay, you ready? Okay, so our
first answer, just to help people remember, is an answer that we told you
how to make sure those settings were on, and how to do a couple of key things, a
(06:12):
most of the times, they're coming with these features. Second, this is where we
get to finally get our hands dirty, we get to build up some defense. Yeah, well,
so we'll table that for now, because we'll get back, it'll make a lot more sense once
we actually discuss what the outbound firewall does, because it has kind of a
(06:37):
unique contribution, at least in my mind, compared to antivirus and VPN, and even
an inbound firewall. And that's, but that's the greatest feature and, or, you
know, the question, the frustration and greatest feature. But we gotta, we
gotta work up to that one, so we're gonna have to hang tight on what that looks
like, exactly. Okay, okay, I'm excited. Hey, you did it, you did it, mission
(07:04):
accomplished. I think we're ready, I think we're ready. You took dry and dull, or what
did I say? Dry and scary. Dry and scary, yes, that's right, dry and scary, and you got
me ready to go. So let's jump in, man, where are we starting? Okay, so we just first
need to understand just a little bit about what it does. Okay. And, you know, you
(07:28):
kind of alluded in the opening questions that maybe you've forgotten, you know,
maybe, or our listeners might, what an inbound firewall does, right? So quick
recap there is an inbound firewall limits these computer calls, as we talk
about them, phone calls, so to speak, that your computer can accept. So very
(07:52):
similarly, an outbound firewall limits the outbound calls that can be made from
your computer, right? So if you think about your home, you know, what calls
you're going to accept, so obviously we don't do this in our home, we don't, we
don't normally, like, you know, restrict who can make what phone calls at home,
right? Yeah. That's a different parallel, but that's what we're talking about here.
(08:15):
Yeah. Now, we've talked about it a lot, we even named an episode about it, do you
remember, have I beat it into your head enough yet, Nick, that you can
tell me what our simple inbound firewall rule is? Oh, badger, put me on the spot, I
always hate when you put me on the spot. Help me out, give me a tip, give me a hint.
(08:42):
Regarding which inbound calls we should accept. Don't answer the phone. Oh, yeah.
Don't answer the phone. Yeah. No, that's okay. Don't answer those
Kobe calls, just don't answer them. Right. It's a simple rule, you just don't answer them at all,
(09:05):
period, right? I remember this by, it's the don't answer the unknown call, unbound,
the inbound coming phone call that you don't recognize. Oh, right, unknown call or
whatever, right. Yeah, you know, that's how I look at it, just so you could get into
(09:26):
our psyche. Yeah, okay. Yeah, although see, it's even more extreme than that, because we
don't even really, for most people, we don't actually like have a known or
unknown. Right. We just don't accept any, right? Right. But as it turns out, and
we'll talk about this more in just a second, but it's, that's kind of similar
to what the outbound thing is, but first, that simple rule, it won't work for an
(09:51):
outbound firewall, right? Because, right, we need our computers to make a lot of
outbound calls. Right, that makes sense. Like, yeah, we're asking them to make
outbound calls all the time, right? Right. Oh, yeah, you want to go browse, you want
to go connect to a website, that's an outbound call. You want to send a message,
(10:12):
you know, you want to check your email, any of those things, basically
everything. I mean, anytime you're doing anything on the internet, that is an
outbound call you're making. Yeah. Right, so what we want to do, it's actually kind
of similar to the unknown caller thing, just in the other direction, so I don't
know if that just makes it more confusing, but the way I would say it is,
(10:35):
we just want to make sure that only apps we trust are allowed to make outbound
calls. That's the level at which we're isolating how outbound calls can make.
Okay, we're talking about a computer, but then within that computer, this app is
making outbound calls, like calls originate from individual apps or the
(10:57):
operating system itself. Yeah. Right, and so when we install apps, we want to say,
okay, this app can make calls, and obviously any app that we're
intentionally installing, right, that means we want to allow it to make
outbound calls. Yeah. So maybe this sounds kind of like, duh, what's the
(11:18):
point, right? Right. But the idea is, if something gets installed that we did not
want to install, that snuck onto our computer in some fashion, that's a
whole different topic, but if there's malware that gets onto our
computer and we haven't said that can make outbound calls, then it won't be
(11:39):
able to. That's what an outbound firewall can do for us. Nice. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay.
So, yeah, go ahead. While you were explaining this, I was thinking of the
(12:00):
movie Wreck-It Ralph, Wreck the Internet or something like that. I'm not exactly
sure. Oh yeah, uh-huh. Have you seen that? I've seen it. I don't remember it super well,
but go ahead. Yeah, so I was thinking about these outbound calls and outbound
calls from our specific apps that we make, etc., and I was thinking about how, you
(12:23):
know, I've always kind of worried because something sneakily get in, and so this is
the solution to that. That's exactly right. So, okay, awesome.
Let's go. You made that super simple. Well, good, and so let's tie it back to our
opening question to the allow list, right, because this is a good general
(12:46):
concept to understand, and this is basically an outbound firewall implements
an allow list, and all an allow list is is if something hasn't been put on the
allow list, then it's not allowed, like it's automatically locked. Right, it's not
allowed to make those calls, and if there's no connection, there's
(13:07):
essentially no worry. Yeah, well, and you know the other kind of
list that people are used to is, you know, we call them a blacklist or a block list,
right, and so then it's only things that are on the list are prohibited from
making calls or from whatever, you know, website filtering. Like when back in, way
(13:30):
back, this was a long time ago, so I don't expect you or any of our listeners
necessarily to remember, but if you want a refresher on allow list and block list,
we talked about it back in episode 40, and in that context, we were talking about
websites, for example, and in there, a better approach is to do a block list. We
want to block some bad websites. Yeah, but in this case, a safer approach, like
(13:55):
there's just different situations where you want to use an allow list and some
situations where you want to use a block list, right? Yeah, that makes sense. That
makes sense, and so for apps and for an outbound firewall, the more useful
approach, the safer, effective approach, is to use an allow list because, like you
said, something might have snuck on there, and that's the whole point. You want, you
(14:19):
want to assume that it's bad until you approved it. Right, yep. Okay, so any other
questions there before we talk about the two specific protections that this
provides against malware that does sneak on there? No, I think we're ready for that
(14:42):
next step. Okay. I'm ready. Okay, so this is, we're gonna talk about the Trojan
Horse for a second to help talk about what this is. So, obviously, you have a
Trojan, or you have experience with your computer on a Trojan Horse. We're gonna
have you, I want you to probably share, well, maybe next episode, because I know we talked
(15:04):
about it a little bit, and I want you to get into all the details probably next, next
episode, but what I'll say about Trojan Horse here is it is a delivery mechanism,
and so, in other words, it could range from just minor harm all the way to massive harm,
(15:26):
but in explaining how it works, like, do you know the original story of, like, the Trojan Horse,
where we got the name from for the computer virus? Yeah. I think, I would say you probably do. Yeah.
You want to tell just a two-sentence version of it? Or I can. A massive army snuck into a wooden
(15:48):
horse that they left at the gates, you know, they brought the horse into the gates, they conquered
the city. Yeah, well, well, actually, what they did was, there was just a small, because, you know,
you can only fit so many in the, in the horse, right, and so, right, and then the Trojans brought
the horse into their city after the Greeks supposedly, like, sailed away, and then at night,
(16:13):
the few people who had snuck in, in the, were, they were hiding in the Trojan Horse, then went
open the gates for the whole big army. Ah, see? Right. That's why I needed your explanation. Yeah,
yeah, that's good. I mean, I reread it. I didn't remember exactly what it was, but anyway, that's,
(16:34):
okay, so, and, and so, a Trojan Horse, in this context, it's kind of a similar idea, right,
because what we're dealing with here, the outbound firewall is not going to stop that Trojan Horse
from getting in, in the first place. It's also not going to provide complete protection against
all the different kinds of damage that a Trojan Horse virus could do, because, like I said, there's
(17:00):
a lot of different, it's a delivery mechanism for viruses, so there's, that's a whole different,
like, there's lots of attacks related to a Trojan Horse that gets onto your system, and so there's
different layers of protection for that, but an outbound firewall is definitely one of them,
and it is a, it is a strong one, and here's what it can do. Well, in one sentence, we'll call it
(17:24):
this. It will stop the malware that does get onto your systems from phoning home, okay? That means...
Stops them from opening the gates. Yeah, exactly, right, yeah, right. Sorry, I didn't even tie it
back to the metaphor. Good, yes, thank you for tying it back to the metaphor, right? It stops
them from opening the gates. That's, that's one of the main things it does, which, in terms of
(17:47):
computers, what that means is, one thing malware likes to do is download a lot more malware, you
know? It has to sneak in, it sometimes has to be small to get inside, right? But then, if it can
phone home, it can download a whole bunch more malware onto your systems. Great, here's more.
Let in that army. Exactly, let in the army, right? So, that's one thing it shuts down. Another thing...
(18:11):
Then it seems like it would be easier to squash the attack. Exactly, yes, and that's one of the
key features we're gonna get to, right? Is because, right, at that point, you'll know about it as well,
right? Oh, nice, yes. See? So, I kind of gave a spoil, but that's what we're getting to. This is,
and it's worth repeating, and we'll get into it more, but you will know about it, and this is one
(18:36):
of the key differences. The malware, it's very hard for it to stay hidden, and we'll get into
the specifics of that, but that's one of the key features. Yeah, so the second kind of thing, it's
all connected to the phone home, but I want to give some specific examples there, is, so, say
that small army, they came in, and part of what they did was they scattered around, saw the layout
(19:00):
of the guards, right? And then, they report back to their leaders, okay, here's what everything looks
like, so here's the best way to make the entrance. I mean, obviously, they just threw open the gates, but
that could be another strategy, right? And in computer terms, that's part of what happens, is
sometimes malware will go around and look at all the kinds of devices that are on your home network,
(19:20):
here's the ways we can exploit it, they explore, and so then they can report back, you know, all the
information they find about your home network. Inside the horse, essentially. If the leaders stayed in the horse, and they
sent out a few little spies to spy around, just look around, and they'd come back and report to them.
That's what, yeah, well, as well, sort of, or this might be a cell phone, you know, it was like, back to like
(19:45):
the leaders on outside of the walls, even, and let them know, oh, okay, here's a weak point, you know, this
guards asleep over there, or whatever, you know, okay, I didn't really flesh out the whole metaphor
perfectly. But yeah, so, or, and we won't even try to bring this into the metaphor necessarily. But a
(20:07):
very big thing too, is just stealing any of your data that it can find on there, you know, passwords,
social security, email, whatever, you know, your financial records, anything it can find on your
computers. So, but it blocks all those things, the the scouting of your network, the uploading of your
private data, because all that involves, of course, network, you know, connecting back to home, you
(20:35):
know, those are just a few examples. But that's the big, really big one is it stops malware from phoning
home. That's, I mean, that's a really big win. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so the second protection is, this is, if
you remember, in Episode 56, we talked about an inbound firewall stopping malware from spreading on
(21:00):
your home network. Yeah. Well, same idea here. An outbound firewall is going to do the same in a
little bit different way, but it's going to help stop that malware from spreading to other devices
on your home network. Okay. You know, more is better. An inbound and outbound firewall on every
(21:21):
computer is going to be good protection. Nice. Because it stops, you know, an inbound firewall stops it from
getting infected, right? And an outbound firewall stops it from infecting others if it, if something gets
past its defenses. And so, you know, back to our whole layers of protection, right? Right. Awesome.
(21:48):
Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. It does. Okay. All right. So now we're to the kind of the main, main
thing, which is the kind of the frustration aspect that we, and, and its strength, right? Yeah. Because, so we
(22:11):
talked a minute ago, how an outbound firewall uses the allow list for apps. Yeah. Right. So in practice, what
this means, what it looks like is the first time you run an app, you're going to get a, you know, after you've
installed outbound firewall, of course, right? You would get a pop-up asking, is it okay for this app to connect to
(22:34):
the internet? Yeah. Right. Now, pop-ups tend to be a great source of annoyance for most people. Right? Yeah,
exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so it's something I want to talk about just for a minute, because with the way
security has been going in general, we are already getting an increasing amount of pop-ups asking for every little
(23:00):
different piece of permission for apps. Right? Yeah. And the outbound firewall, well, yes, it adds one more of these
pop-ups. Right? Now, here's the thing. In a lot of ways, these new questions are a good thing, because it means we get
more control over what the apps are doing. We don't just all of a sudden, we install an app and we let them do
(23:24):
anything and everything on our computers that they want. That's been the source of a lot of problems over the years.
So when you see these, just remember, this is, you know, it may not be a perfect approach, we might find better
ways, but it is a step forward in keeping your computer safe. It's you taking control. You know, instead of letting
(23:46):
everything just whimsically, magically, hopefully take care of itself. It's you taking these loose ends and taking
control. You know, so yeah, these are pop-ups that matter. But it's saying like, my guess is it tells us, hey, look,
(24:06):
we're gonna allow this for a certain period of time or with certain parameters that first time going back to what you
were talking about, first time using it, what happens.
Yeah, well, so it's, there's, there's a whole range of depending on how you want to do it. But for most people, my
(24:27):
recommendation, and you can have, depending on the firewall, just have it just be a simple, does this app have
permission to do outbound calls, you know, forever? Or does it not? Yeah, for most people that I mean, that that's
kind of the biggest bang for your buck. Now, I do absolutely like you can have and the firewall I've been using is,
(24:48):
you know, kind of computer geek friendly. So yeah, I mean, I can do it temporary, I can specify the types of calls it
can make, which websites it can talk to. And you can get into all that if you really want to, you know, and that's
only available to you. But for most people, that's just going to be way too much noise. I'm way, way too much noise.
So my recommendation, certainly to start with for anybody is just do the simple, this app, yes. And then if any, you
(25:17):
know, anything that pops up that you don't recognize, you don't understand what it is, you know, you didn't install
intentionally, say no. Yeah, you know, and come to the forum and let me know. So we can talk about it. Right? Like,
yeah.
But does that make sense? Whereas a starting total sense? Yeah. So but part of the thing I want to emphasize here is, you
(25:44):
know, these pop ups can be annoying, and we've got more and more of them. But these, specifically, when I'm talking
about permission pop ups, you know, an outbound firewall is one of these kind of permission pop ups. You can't, you
know, like, if you're not willing to take a moment to read the pop ups, don't install an outbound firewall, because it
(26:04):
won't help you.
It will drive you bonkers.
Yeah, it'll just drive you bonkers. And then you'll just say yes, and it won't do anything. And it'll just make your
other pop up behavior even worse. Because, I mean, this is one of the most fundamental security principles I teach is
learning to pay attention to pop ups, breaking the habit of just ignoring universally all pop ups. You've got to make a
(26:29):
distinction. Cookie pop ups, fine, ignore them and click off reflexively. You know, as long as you're sure it's a cookie pop up,
that's a different, different story. But permission pop ups, please pay attention to.
Do you know how I look at this is my metaphor. This is how I look at it.
(26:49):
Yeah.
Oh,
when they're when you're driving, there are certain road signs that you can kind of ignore.
Oh, yeah, this is exactly the metaphor. Yeah, I've talked about I agree.
Yep. Yep. Yeah, it's stuck in my head since you've got the mile markers. Yeah, the mile markers. Like I ignore those
completely, unless I'm getting off an exit, right? Right. And that's the funny thing. And so I look at it. four way
(27:17):
stops. There's no way in heck, I'm ignoring those. I don't want to get T-boned, you know, two ways, stops like across
highways. Like, you bet I'm stopping like, like, there, there are certain road signs that you got to pay attention to. And
these are to basically some, not to sum it up, but to put it all in a bag is really, what we're doing is we're creating this
(27:49):
defense. And the best way to enforce our defense is by paying attention to the road signs that our pop up is going to give us.
Yep. Yeah. No, it's like that back in. Yeah. No, you're basically being the general, you're overseeing your troops and how
(28:10):
they're administered. Yeah, exactly. And it's important. And I know it, we don't want to, but with the way world's going and
increasing technology, you know, we don't have to become mechanics, but we do have to be a little more. You know, we've got to
learn a little bit. Right. So, so hopefully this show, you can't stay ignorantly blessed. Eventually you got to, you got to
(28:35):
take a step in the right direction. It's not going to get easier. It's only going to get worse. Exactly. So the second half of
this point is we've talked about the frustration of pop-ups, right? So why do I say that this is also, because this is the part
that these pop-ups, I also consider the firewalls greatest strengths. And here's why, because chances are these days, if you, if
(29:02):
one of your devices gets infected with malware, you're going to know about it. We talked about this earlier. You will find out
about it rather than what malware wants to do of staying hidden forever. Because these days, you know, long ago, it didn't
always, it wasn't always the case. But these days, the chances of you getting malware that doesn't try to make any outbound
(29:25):
call is, I mean, I don't know what the statistics are, but it's going to be very low because they just, they all want to, there's so
many reasons to. And so anytime, you know, if it makes an outbound call, your outbound firewall is going to catch it. And
assuming, again, you pay attention to the pop-up, like we've been talking about, you're going to know about it. It won't be able to
(29:45):
stay hidden. You know, that pop-up, it's annoying, but it's also the thing that tells you that you have malware.
Right. It's going to be like, dude, guess what? Troops got in.
Yeah, exactly. But the thing, and so for me, one of the things that that accomplishes is it helps you actually have some
(30:06):
level of confidence. And this goes back to the thing that I get asked a lot from people is, you know, it's like they install
something, but how do they know it's doing anything for them? How do they know that their computer is safe? How do they know
they're being protected at all? Well, an outbound firewall is one of the great answers to that because it will watch and it will
let you know. It can't protect you from everything, but it does do a fantastic job at limiting the damage and especially at
(30:32):
letting you know when something failed.
Nice. Nice. Nice. So, in other words, these are road signs you never ignore. Any that you get, especially if it's all of a sudden red flag and something.
Yep, exactly. And so that's really this one point that we're talking about right now is why I made the title, you know, why everyone
(31:00):
needs an outbound firewall because everyone wants to keep their computer safe and everyone wants to have some confidence that it
actually is safe. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, that's kind of the summary of it. So, awesome. So, I've got one last thing to talk about
now. We're on a little bit long, but that's okay. And I just want to say like what the status is of outbound firewall tools that are
(31:29):
available, right? Yeah. And this won't be heavy, so this should go pretty quick, but the outbound firewall that I have been using since
2011 at least, that's my earliest purchase record, it's called Little Snitch. Okay. I like it. Yeah. It's kind of a funny name, right?
(31:50):
Right. Snitching on the apps that are, you know, making calls. So, it's Mac only. And, but I will say though, it is, I would consider it a
computer geek tool. Okay. Okay. Like it gives you full control over all of it and which means I don't really necessarily recommend it for our
(32:13):
average listener, but I'm just throwing it out there because the makers of Little Snitch in November of 2023, they realized there was a little bit of a
missing thing and they released Little Snitch Mini. Okay. And this is a greatly simplified version, exactly, specifically designed for people like
(32:33):
you, Nick, and the everyday user. Yes. Okay. So, they took all the same power, all the learning experience they've had for the last, you know, what, 15 years,
at least, well, that's actually how long, I'm not sure how they've been around even longer than that, but anyway, and then just put a simple version so you can just do the,
okay, yes to this app and that's it, you know, kind of thing. Little Snitch Mini. Yep, Little Snitch Mini. And the baseline version actually is even free. So, I have to say in full disclosure, I haven't
(33:11):
tested it myself yet. I'm going to be putting it on the computers my wife and kids use, but I do feel very comfortable recommending it. Okay. Now, I know we have predominantly Windows users, just because that's the
general. So, there is one there and I suggest trying out Port Master. Now, we'll have links for these. You don't have to try to, you know, search them or whatever, but it also has a free version and I do use Windows, but primarily for gaming. I'm not a heavy, like,
(33:46):
day-to-day, I don't do my software development on Windows. So, I can't, I'm not like, this is amazing and perfect and everything, but I have had it installed now for, I don't know, six months, a year, I can't remember exactly when I put it on. And I am comfortable, I've done enough research on it and I've had it on there for a while, like, I'm comfortable recommending at least for people to give it a try. Okay.
(34:09):
And so, this is one of those times where I wish I had more experience, I could say, you know, perfect, but I'm kind of hoping that, you know, over time with our community, with our listeners, we can get people using it, sharing experiences on the forum and help me build that, because I'm only one person. I can't test out all the tools all the time, especially with this one too, because outbound firewalls are such, you know, a rarely used tool in general in the population.
(34:35):
You can't even, like, get lots of, you know, YouTube reviews or anything like that. So, anyway, that's my hope is that over time we can help fill in that gap and get people reporting back and gather data on it. So, yeah.
Awesome.
Yeah. And then finally, if you're wondering about, like, your phones, there's not really, there's no outbound firewalls to speak of that I saw there. There's a couple, anyway, nothing worth exploring or using from my perspective at this stage.
(35:10):
Right.
It's a totally different beast. So, anyway. So, that's what we've done.
Can I weigh in for 30 seconds?
Yeah, absolutely.
Isn't this what we kind of learned about one of our previous episodes too with phones and why we recommend Apple over some of these other phones is because Apple does such a good job of thoroughly vetting their apps, you know?
(35:37):
Oh, yeah, that's, I mean, yeah, there's some truth to that.
Okay. Maybe I'm not entirely correct. My bad.
No, no, no. I, well, so I would just caveat, like, I mean, obviously I favor Apple. My only hesitation was there how strongly, you know, like, you know, and like Apple very recently had, you know, an app store breach, but it was such big news because it's so much more rare.
(36:04):
Not breach, exactly, but whatever. They had some, they had malware in one of the apps that was found there.
But as far as this goes, like, in general, apps are a lot more under tighter controls on phones, both Apple and Android, than computers are.
And so that's, I would put the emphasis here, there, rather than Apple versus Android.
(36:31):
This distinction is because phones are a lot more tighter than computers.
Yeah, exactly.
Okay.
Yep.
So if we reach that point, what's our call to action?
Yeah, well, so here's how I want to state it, because, you know, I want you to join the tiny but elite crowd of people using an outbound firewall.
(36:58):
You know, if you're on a Mac, get Little Snitch Mini. If you're on Windows or Linux, it's also available on Linux, get Portmaster.
And then come, and this is an important part of this one. I mean, I always talk about come and talking on the forum.
But this one, I especially want to emphasize, because I need more data. I need to hear other people, how their experiences go.
So I would be super grateful for anybody who would, you know, try it out and report back.
(37:23):
Obviously, it might be six months from now, I know that you report back or a month or whatever, but what your experience looks like with that.
I was going to say, shout out to those that are using them right now. If you're using them, let us know.
You know, if you've got a product that you can speak to that works well, let us know. We'd love to hear about them.
(37:50):
Yeah, well, and I want to backpedal on the six months, because I mean, I'd love to hear what their experience is just installing it.
And then after a week, like, have they had any pops up? Because I know Portmaster, for example, is very heavy into trying to make it so it doesn't ask you too often.
Like it tries to know about a bunch of apps that are OK or whatever. And I haven't installed it.
(38:15):
I almost never install anything on Windows. So I haven't really given it a thorough vetting, you know, at this point.
But anyway. OK, so and of course, the links will be in the in the show notes, but that's awesome.
Dude, that was a good episode, man. Yeah, I was super fun, man. I'd love to talk with you.
(38:41):
Yeah, yeah. Might have been a little long, but hey, I was good. Yeah.
So you're going to get it that way. No, you got to get them excited for the last episode, man.
Oh, I was waiting for you. Thank you. Thank you. I about forgot I was ready to high five.
And this is one of my super exciting sneak peek in the next episode.
(39:07):
OK, next episode is our 10th and final episode of the Home Network series.
Oh, let's go. You made it. You made it. Yeah, let's go. Here we go.
Congratulations. If you've made it through all 10, you guys are amazing.
(39:29):
Thanks for sticking with us. We know we have some specific gals that are listening faithfully.
Yep, yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. So we're wrapping things up with an episode that's designed to inspire you to take action, which I absolutely love.
(39:52):
We really want you to take some action. That said, because we are who we are, it's just one small step.
So, yes, but based on any of the nine call to actions that we use from this series.
(40:13):
So spoiler alert, we might not be reviewing all of those.
So you might have to take a quick listen at the call to actions on each one before you take a peek at this episode.
Yeah, well, and we've been upgrading our show notes a lot, too.
Yeah. Make some of those. Yeah. So that's a quick and easy way to review the call to actions.
(40:37):
And also, if you subscribe to our weekly email, you know, we send out a one minute summary of the episode with the call to action as well.
So, you know, a lot of ways, if you're ready to take calls, actually, we're doing everything we possibly can to make that simple for you to know and see and get to when you have time and that sort of thing.
(40:57):
So that's right. That's right. OK, now I'm ready. Now you're ready.
Are you ready to take action and wondering where to start? Get my Bulletproof My Identity Starter Kit for free.
The seven most vital layers of protection everyone needs. I'll send you one step at a time and help you if you get stuck.
(41:22):
Just go to BulletproofMyID.com and enter your name and email and I will send you the first step.
Again, that's BulletproofMyID.com.
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