July 19, 2024 • 43 secs
In a conversation that combines expertise and humour, Elena Baeva, CEO of 365 Talent Portal and ex-Microsoft, talks about how companies that use Microsoft technologies can leverage and embrace AI.
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(00:00):
Welcome to the 365 pod, a technology podcast
which supports companies to successfully use and leverage
their Microsoft product stack.
We do this through news, insights, tips, and
more.
I'm Sandra Kutzenko, I'm the Director of Training
Services for 365 Talent Portal, which is the
(00:23):
company who created and who is sponsoring this
wonderful podcast.
And I am your host for this episode.
Today is our very, very first episode of
the 365 pod, so we're very excited.
And we decided that it would be fun
to have this as a bit of an
(00:43):
interview boss kind of episode.
So with me today is Elena Baeva, who
is the founder and CEO of 365 Talent
Portal.
Now, Elena has a huge wealth of knowledge
of the Microsoft space.
So with this episode, my intention is really
to take this as an opportunity to ask
(01:03):
her a lot of questions that I don't
get to ask her, you know, usually at
work in the day-to-day and really
draw out what she knows and what she
can share with you that will benefit you.
A little bit of background about Elena, she's
got over 25 years of experience in the
tech sector, nine of which were spent working
with Microsoft directly.
(01:24):
So she's got that insider knowledge for you.
And for the past 11 years, she has
been leading our company, 365 Talent Portal.
She's also the International Vice President of the
International Association of Microsoft Channel Partners, or IAMCP.
Thank you so much for joining me, Elena,
(01:44):
today.
How are you doing?
Very well, super excited about today and I'm
quite intrigued about this interview boss podcast.
So I think we might be starting a
trend, Sandra.
I think that'd be amazing.
So let's dive in.
Can you first tell us a bit more
(02:05):
about what drove you to start 365 Talent
Portal and what is it you stand for
as a business leader?
Of course, yes.
So, okay.
So here's what happened 12 years ago.
So I was working at Microsoft and I
had this business idea and it was brewing
(02:25):
inside of me and I just, I was
so excited about it, I couldn't sleep.
And I was hoping that another partner would
take it on and launch the service because
I was working with a lot of partners.
I even shared it with many partners and
they were saying, well, that's really good.
Well, what a good idea.
Why isn't nobody doing it?
(02:46):
So then I just sat on it for
about a year and it was just building
inside of me.
I started putting together business plans and thinking,
well, someone should do it.
Then one day I was driving to work.
And so, you know, this is stupid.
I should do it.
If nobody is doing it, maybe I should
do it.
It's my opportunity, but you know what?
(03:06):
I was a bit scared.
So I had a comfortable job and like,
yeah, I had a young daughter.
She was like three years old.
So it's not the comfortable time to leave
a steady job and dive into a world
of the unknown entrepreneurship.
But then after thinking for a while, and
I was very lucky.
(03:26):
My husband was super supportive and that was
a big part of my success.
So he encouraged me to think about it
more and to pursue it because ultimately the
fear of failure was not as strong of
my fear of not trying.
(03:46):
So for me, and that's actually a really
stand for this.
So following your instinct and being brave, because
there's nothing.
It's like in the days when you die,
you're probably not going to think about all
like, oh, I failed in this and I
failed there.
You're going to think about the things you
haven't done and you haven't yet, you haven't
achieved.
So I really wanted to, to try no
matter what.
(04:06):
And I was prepared to take the risk.
And that's very important.
And that's, I would encourage anyone to do
that.
Thank you.
That's an awesome piece of insight.
And I think it's something that people miss
a lot.
They are scared of doing something and they
do not consider what is the consequence of
not doing it.
And that maybe that is actually a much
scarier thing.
(04:27):
So thanks for sharing that.
Very useful.
Totally.
Because people are afraid of like, oh, what
if it doesn't work out, et cetera.
But think about what if you don't try,
so what's worse for you?
So not trying or not working out.
Absolutely.
So now let's talk a little bit about
end users.
They are the people for whom we want
(04:48):
this podcast to be useful.
And there's a lot happening right now in
our space.
It's very active and, you know, so in
this context of like all that's happening at
the moment, why would you say companies should
go with Microsoft stack solutions as opposed to
(05:09):
their competitors?
I mean, when you look at most businesses,
most businesses, I'd say, if not all businesses
are probably using Windows, Outlook, Teams is very
popular since COVID, Word, Excel.
You're probably using Azure.
You might not even know it.
(05:30):
You're probably using SharePoint, Power Platform to some
degree.
So these are all solutions provided by Microsoft.
And it makes a lot of sense to
have all these technologies being connected and talking
to each other, because if you want to
be productive and effective, you want your systems
to be aligned, right?
And to sit in the most efficient place.
(05:52):
So I think that's the benefit of having
everything provided by the same vendor.
Now, of course, there is a risk putting
all your eggs in one basket.
And the only downside, I'd say, is if
you have one supplier that comes with the
risk.
(06:13):
But when you think it's like Microsoft is
a pretty stable, big company, so the second
largest organisation in the world in terms of
your shareholding, and they've grown tremendously.
And when you look at the amount of
innovation that's going into them right now, it's
a pretty safe bet, I'd say.
So, yeah.
(06:34):
That's very true.
And that's one thing that I've found very
exciting about it lately.
So we use this as a company, right?
You know this, Microsoft, and particularly the whole
Microsoft 365 range.
And very often, I'll go into the list
of Microsoft 365 apps, just log into my
account, and often there's going to be a
new one that, oh, I didn't know that
existed.
(06:54):
And they just keep adding new features, new
tools, new capabilities.
And now, even just something as simple as
Microsoft 365 has awesome elements, awesome pieces of
technology.
There's a whole learning thing now that I've
discovered very recently with courses you can take
as an employee.
So that's also one thing I find is
really cool as a Microsoft user.
(07:17):
Very much so.
I mean, there's so much.
It's so hard to keep on top of
it.
But there's a massive investment behind it.
It's like they're probably the most serious company
right now that looks at the businesses, not
just the personal productivity, but businesses as an
organisation.
So I would say it's the benefits outweigh
the risks, definitely.
(07:38):
That makes a lot of sense, yes.
So when companies are implementing larger Microsoft solutions,
like, for example, Dynamics 365, in your experience,
what are the main challenges and pitfalls that
lead to project failure?
That's one of the big fears people have,
right?
(07:58):
So what have you seen as main challenges
and pitfalls?
I mean, starting a new project is, I
totally understand and sympathise with a lot of
companies that are on board on a new
CRM or new ERP system.
And it could be scary because you actually
don't know what you don't know.
And that's kind of one of the, yeah,
(08:20):
a lot of them take a lot of
time to decide.
And again, that leads to my first point
when I was talking about jumping into the
unknown and the fear of failure.
It will be there.
So especially if you haven't had this experience
before, you're starting something new.
And I've seen a lot of, like, over
my 25 years in this space, I've seen
(08:41):
a lot of good practises and I've seen
a lot of mistakes that people have made.
But a couple of examples I really want
to give our audience of things they can
do in the beginning of a project and
maybe at the end of the project, because
these are very important things to make it
successful.
So when, and again, because you're starting something
(09:01):
new, and if you don't have the internal
knowledge of that ERP or CRM solution, you
are relying on an external provider to bring
that knowledge.
So you're putting your trust in an external
organisation, which is great because there's so many
reputable partners out there, but you're putting all
(09:22):
your trust in that organisation.
And sometimes even that organisation would need help
from your team, and you might not have
the knowledge or resources to provide that help.
So it is quite confusing starting this and
especially defining your requirements, et cetera, and you're
relying on someone else coming in and in
(09:43):
and out of your organisation and trying to
gather this so they can create these processes
and everything, so as a requirements review.
But the best practises that I've seen, and
a lot of organisations have now woken up
to that, is to hiring an internal project
manager.
So this is someone who doesn't work for
the partner or the vendor that is implementing
(10:05):
the system, they work for you as an
end user.
And it could be, depends on the duration
of the project.
It could be someone for a few months
for the duration of the project, or it
could be for a few years if it's
a complex implementation.
So it could be freelance, it could be
permanent, but this person, it works for you.
They're paid by you to work for you,
represent your interests, and they know about it.
(10:27):
You need to hire someone experienced who has
done it before and who can guide you.
Maybe they can guide you with the selection
of the solution, with the selection of the
vendors.
They're knowledgeable.
You're not doing it from a position of
not knowing and worrying about making a mistake.
You're hiring someone internally that has been there,
has done that, and brings experience.
(10:48):
So this type of internal project manager is
also highly valuable for the partners you work
with, because they have someone that they can
speak the same language.
And certainly the implementation is much more productive
from day one, because you have two knowledgeable
sides talking to each other and thinking about
defining what a success looks like in common
(11:09):
terms.
So that role is absolutely crucial for the
success of a project.
Otherwise, you're relying just on an external organisation
to make the success for you.
So that's step number one.
And then, clearly, the implementation, there are lots
of...
It could be quite complex, etc.
So I'm not going to talk about it.
(11:29):
We don't have enough time.
But at the end of the implementation, also,
that's another common mistake.
A lot of people think, oh, I've implemented
the system, job done.
So it's like, it's all great.
But the success of the implementation is not
just about the system and the solution.
It's about people and the user adoption.
So make sure that you plan for that,
(11:52):
because you might have the best processes, the
best system.
But if your users have not been trained
on using it, if they have not been
involved in the process, and they don't know
how to use the system, there'll be so
much resistance.
And they will not use it in the
right way.
They might not even use it at all.
So many implementations, they won't even touch it.
(12:14):
So they just say, well, I have no
idea.
It looks different from what I'm used to.
I used to do it this way.
You want me to do it that way?
I won't do it.
I won't bother.
I'll just carry on doing what I was
doing.
So it's very, very important.
And I'm simplifying.
But user adoption is a very, very important
part of the success of the implementation.
So make sure that you plan for that.
(12:35):
And it might be the case that you
might need to bring another organisation, because implementation
partners are often great at delivering the systems,
but you need different skills to train someone.
So you might think about, OK, what skills
do I need?
What resource do I need in order to
make this effective?
And I know, Sandra, you've had first-hand
experience with some of our clients in that.
(12:57):
So what are your thoughts on that as
well?
Well, yeah, that's been really interesting, because for
us on the training side, we're kind of
the people to whom the clients come when
they have a system they're not using.
So this is like, we see essentially the
results of bad user adoption practises, user adoption
that was not done properly, not done with
the right priorities in mind, or sometimes not
(13:19):
done at all.
And then the clients come to us, and
they go, OK, well, I've invested all that
money into my system.
People are not using it.
And there's all these things I want to
do with it, but I can't do anything,
because I don't know how.
I don't want to call back the partner.
I've already put so much money into it.
So now it feels like a huge waste.
Can you help me?
So that's kind of where we are.
And that's why we've been trying as a
(13:42):
company to advocate for better user adoption practises,
because it's actually so important to your client's
happiness at the end.
And training is a big part of that.
It's not the only part, but it's a
big part.
And one thing that's important to understand when
we're in the middle of Microsoft technologies is
we're used to it, but it does take
a bit of learning, especially Microsoft Dynamics.
(14:04):
It's a really powerful solution, but you can't
just go log into it and know how
to use it.
There's a lot of other CRMs you can
do that.
You can kind of fly through learning a
few things, but Dynamics, you have to be
hot.
So yeah, definitely user adoption is really important,
and training needs to be a big part
(14:26):
of it, which it's not really at the
moment.
And I would say also training with future
-proofing in mind, because very often when training
is done, we're just training a first round
of users.
And we're not thinking about how are the
new joiners going to be trained afterwards?
How is the user going to manage when
they just want to do a tiny update
or a tiny tweak to their customisation system?
(14:49):
We're creating a solution where they're overly reliant
on the partner or on learning partners to
come back in every time there's a new
need, and that creates a reluctance and a
resistance.
And then people just don't get trained, and
then people just don't use the system.
So it's definitely, I completely agree with you,
absolutely essential.
And there's one thing I'm curious about.
(15:11):
So I know you've been very involved in
supporting partner with the first thing you were
talking about, getting that external consultant within the
organisation to support with the communications with the
partners and with the implementation.
Is there a success story that you'd be
able to share without breaking confidentiality, like examples
of a scenario when you've accompanied an end
(15:34):
-user successfully with a model like this?
So again, I won't mention names, but there've
been examples, a lot of examples of partners
putting together requests for information, like requests for
proposals, RFPs.
So that's the customer comes together with a
(15:58):
bunch of requirements and they go out with
this RFP and RFI.
And it's done with something in mind that
they wanted to, but without understanding really the
journey and what their real needs are.
So as I said, that goes back to,
you don't know what you don't know.
(16:19):
So you're asking the vendors and the providers
to send you back information for what you
think is important to you, but you're missing
the big picture.
So you blindly going after a certain set
of requirements that you've done.
And we've seen that they select someone to
deliver what they want.
And that partner goes after nods and say,
(16:41):
yeah, we're ticking every box on what you
want.
And at the end of the implementation is
like, oops, we've missed out this and we've
missed out that.
And the partner you've selected or the vendor
selected just can't provide it because your requirements
and scope was this.
And you had no visibility of what you
really needed.
And you actually, sometimes your scope was bigger
(17:03):
than what you needed.
So, or it might have been in a
completely direction from where you needed to go.
So there's a lot of that.
And on the other spectrum, we've seen partners
requesting the end users to have an internal
resource or the end users, the customer proactively
(17:26):
hiring and cleverly hiring this person ahead of
time.
So when you have this person from day
one, that actually works really well.
It saves you a lot of time, a
lot of money as well, because you're certainly
focused on the things you want.
And actually you gain speed because you're doing
(17:46):
things properly.
So ultimately it costs you less.
You might need to pay that person, but
this person will save you so much money
from the implementation and the time and efficiency.
So it's a no brainer when you think
about it.
But I've seen this done successfully now because
(18:08):
customers don't know about this model.
They often realise it later throughout the project.
And at that point, this person comes in
a recovery mode.
So to undo the things that were done
and fix the mistakes.
And this is a much more expensive scenario.
So if you want to do it properly,
do it before you even start implementation.
(18:29):
Find someone with experience and knowledge in, if
you want to implement the ERP system, find
someone who's done it before, who's chosen and
implemented the solutions that you want to implement,
because that would be really the best and
most effective way you can help yourself.
(18:50):
And the partner who is going to work
with you to do the actual implementation.
That's very true.
And it was also a really good point
you made about how just the scoping itself
is enough, like the initial building of the
plan.
It's hard as a business to know exactly
how to do this, how do you identify
the real needs, how it's really valuable to
(19:11):
actually have guidance from somebody who's done it
before at that stage of the process.
Exactly, exactly.
Now, talking of user adoption and adopting new
technologies.
So we've talked a little bit about how
we're seeing an acceleration in our space of
(19:32):
updates and news.
And particularly something that's happening right now is
we're getting a lot of new things in
the AI area and in the low-code
area with Power Platform and solutions like this.
How do you see this impacting Microsoft end
users and what can they do to stay
on top of the technology progress and of
(19:54):
what's happening with the Microsoft products?
Oh my God, this is a massive area
and this is coming to us at the
speed of light, Sandra.
And we just can't ignore this anymore.
And just to put things into perspective, so
Chad GPT had the fastest growth ever when
(20:18):
you look at the time they got to
1 million users.
Guess how long it took them to get
to 1 million users?
And I'll give you examples.
So Netflix got there in three and a
half years.
Airbnb got there in two and a half
years.
Twitter, it took them two years.
Facebook, 10 months.
What do you think for Chad GPT?
(20:40):
I think I've heard it.
It's something crazy like a week or just
completely mad.
Five days, five days.
It's mad.
It's mad.
In five days they got to 1 million
users.
And I was like, we're talking like different
volume right now.
So what is this telling us?
That we all need to get on board
with AI quickly.
I mean, it's already in our lives whether
(21:01):
we like it or not.
And a lot of the things we do,
a lot of the companies are using AI
already.
A lot of the Microsoft solutions are using
AI already.
But we need to start understanding it and
customers will need to start thinking about it
because end users need to start thinking about
it because their own customers will be asking
questions about it.
(21:22):
They'll be expecting it.
Employees would be expecting you to get on
board.
So I mean, it's very hard to predict
where we'll be in a year, but it's
going to be much more advanced where it's
now at this rate.
I mean, just looking six months ago, we
thought AI was, I was like seeing so
(21:44):
much in every month.
There's just so much being released and done.
It's just, I've never seen such an innovation.
And years ago, we were excited about internet.
This is much bigger than internet.
So yeah, I think right now we just
can't ignore it.
You can't just put your head in the
(22:04):
sand and say, well, I'll just see what
happens because it's developing so quickly.
If you're not keeping up, you'll have so
much to catch on.
It's ridiculous.
And to be honest, I think everyone needs
to be in an AI business.
Every business will have an AI element.
(22:27):
And the risk is if you're not, you
probably will be out of business because all
your competitors will be.
So it's not an option to say, oh,
it's not for me.
Whatever business you're in, it's most likely going
to impact you and demand it from you
to stay competitive.
So otherwise, you're not going to be productive.
You're not going to be efficient.
(22:48):
You'll be losing people.
You'll be like, customers will be leaving.
And again, you can't sustain your business unless
you start thinking about it.
So yeah, I think it needs to be
on top of mind for everyone.
Unfortunately, it's not a good to have.
It's a must have now.
That's true.
And I mean, it's a really powerful tool
if you think about it.
(23:08):
I know there's a lot of reluctance like
this number of companies that just don't really
know how, don't really want to start looking
into this.
But there's been good results in terms of
productivity improvement, just engagement because it's actually fun
once you get started to use AI for
certain things, see what it comes back with.
(23:28):
There's a good reward for your investment, I
feel, in this particular technology.
Absolutely.
And then there are lots of ways to
learn about it.
There are free resources, et cetera.
And for you to try as well.
Just get your hands dirty.
Play with it.
It's like, what's the worst that can happen?
So yeah.
Very true.
Now, there's one thing, though, where I'd love
(23:50):
your insights.
Obviously, as you said, this is accelerating really
quickly, right?
AI, there's new copilots coming out all the
time, new updates, new features, new capabilities.
It's really overwhelming.
And even the people in our space, like
the consultants who are head down into it,
they are struggling to keep up.
It's too fast for them even.
(24:12):
So what would be your advice to an
end user company whose main focus is not
IT and it's not AI, when we're already
struggling, what would you say they should do
in order to make the most of what's
happening with AI?
Yeah.
I mean, I completely understand it.
It's normal to be scared of the unknown.
And it's, yeah, with AI, it's like such
(24:33):
a huge beast that is, like, where do
you tackle it?
And it's like, well, it's...
So maybe define first, like, what does it
mean for you?
And maybe look at the areas in your
business where you are least productive.
So are there any areas?
(24:54):
Because every business has areas where you're not
productive and efficient.
And I bet you there are ways AI
can help.
So I wouldn't start doing research for AI,
for everything AI, because you'll get lost.
And it's like, yeah, you started exploring this
and one thing leads to another and another
and another.
And it is just like you've wasted days
(25:14):
and months just researching it.
But just be practical.
So for your business, where do you want
to improve productivity and efficiency?
And why are you wasting time?
Why are you wasting resources right now?
So is there anything that can help you?
And then go and maybe ask Chad GPT,
what is the best tool that can help
(25:36):
you?
Ask AI to help you find the answer.
And I know that, I mean, there is
a risk.
I mean, some jobs might be at risk,
because maybe you don't need certain jobs anymore,
if it could be automated, etc.
But it's also an opportunity, because maybe you
can refocus people to develop more strategic roles
(26:02):
and to focus on doing more strategic work
or more creative work and something that would
add even more value.
So some things that AI can't do, get
AI to do the mundane, repeatable jobs that
you don't need in human intelligence.
But just focus your people on something that
they enjoy and that they can bring more
(26:23):
value than anyone else.
That's a really good advice.
And I was thinking about that recently, that
indeed, AI, that's a way for essentially increasing
your workforce without increasing your workforce.
Suddenly, you're freeing up time from people's day
-to-day jobs, repetitive tasks, time-consuming tasks,
(26:43):
you're accelerating the way they work.
And suddenly, they can focus on other things.
They can be happier because they're doing things
that are much more creative and much more
interesting.
They can start new projects, they can get
help in areas where they would be stuck.
So it's actually, if you look at this
as an opportunity, suddenly, it's a very empowering
tool.
And that's actually the way I got started
(27:05):
with it.
I just started asking myself, whenever I had
a task I didn't really want to do,
or a task that I felt was going
to take me ages, how can AI help
me?
And as a business leader, I think that's
something you can do to start AI adoption
in your business.
I mean, you, Elena, were a big part
of us starting using AI because you started
using it yourself.
You told us about how you were using
it, and that was an inspiration for me
(27:27):
to try.
And then I just tell myself, okay, so
I really don't want to be writing five
social media posts today.
How can AI make this faster?
And I would never actually write the entire
post with AI because I feel that's not
where it's good, but it helps generate ideas,
it helps to generate a structure, and then
you have saved yourself at least half the
time it would have taken if AI wasn't
(27:48):
there at all.
Absolutely.
And I love how people can be creative
with AI and do things that you would
have never thought that it was technology for.
And yeah, so it's interesting.
Once you get hooked into that, you see
more and more opportunities of using it and
leveraging for day-to-day stuff as well.
(28:09):
So it's not just strategic big areas, but
just small things.
What could save you time and make you
more productive?
Absolutely.
So you sound like you're more on the
excited side when it comes to that, right?
Some people are excited, some people are apprehensive.
From your point of view, what are the
(28:29):
main pros, the main risks that we need
to pay attention to?
And how would you advise companies when it
comes to managing the risks around AI?
So again, it needs to be...
So control is very important.
So in terms of control of your data
and where things sit and what people are
(28:51):
using.
So therefore, actually using Microsoft Copilot is a
really safe bet because if you're just using
open AI, your data could be shared with
your competitors and all the information could be
shared with your competitors.
So I think it's very important.
(29:13):
Other risks in terms of individual roles, et
cetera, a lot of people are worried.
And we work in the tech space where
some developers are saying, am I going to
be redundant if AI can do my coding?
So what am I here for?
But there are a lot of other ways
we can start thinking and re-skilling.
(29:33):
So thinking of what type of skills you
need in order to stay relevant.
And so it's all about relevancy.
How can you remain relevant in the age
of AI?
And thinking, okay, I might be losing some
of the jobs I'm getting and losing some
of the things I've been doing comfortably, but
what could I learn?
(29:54):
What could I gain that would give me
a differentiation and advantage?
Welcome to the 365 pod, a technology podcast
which supports companies to successfully use and leverage
their Microsoft product stack.
We do this through news, insights, tips, and
more.
I'm Sandra Kutzenko, I'm the Director of Training
Services for 365 Talent Portal, which is the
(00:23):
company who created and who is sponsoring this
wonderful podcast.
And I am your host for this episode.
Today is our very, very first episode of
the 365 pod, so we're very excited.
And we decided that it would be fun
to have this as a bit of an
(00:43):
interview boss kind of episode.
So with me today is Elena Baeva, who
is the founder and CEO of 365 Talent
Portal.
Now, Elena has a huge wealth of knowledge
of the Microsoft space.
So with this episode, my intention is really
to take this as an opportunity to ask
(01:03):
her a lot of questions that I don't
get to ask her, you know, usually at
work in the day-to-day and really
draw out what she knows and what she
can share with you that will benefit you.
A little bit of background about Elena, she's
got over 25 years of experience in the
tech sector, nine of which were spent working
with Microsoft directly.
(01:24):
So she's got that insider knowledge for you.
And for the past 11 years, she has
been leading our company, 365 Talent Portal.
She's also the International Vice President of the
International Association of Microsoft Channel Partners, or IAMCP.
Thank you so much for joining me, Elena,
(01:44):
today.
How are you doing?
Very well, super excited about today and I'm
quite intrigued about this interview boss podcast.
So I think we might be starting a
trend, Sandra.
I think that'd be amazing.
So let's dive in.
Can you first tell us a bit more
(02:05):
about what drove you to start 365 Talent
Portal and what is it you stand for
as a business leader?
Of course, yes.
So, okay.
So here's what happened 12 years ago.
So I was working at Microsoft and I
had this business idea and it was brewing
(02:25):
inside of me and I just, I was
so excited about it, I couldn't sleep.
And I was hoping that another partner would
take it on and launch the service because
I was working with a lot of partners.
I even shared it with many partners and
they were saying, well, that's really good.
Well, what a good idea.
Why isn't nobody doing it?
(02:46):
So then I just sat on it for
about a year and it was just building
inside of me.
I started putting together business plans and thinking,
well, someone should do it.
Then one day I was driving to work.
And so, you know, this is stupid.
I should do it.
If nobody is doing it, maybe I should
do it.
It's my opportunity, but you know what?
(03:06):
I was a bit scared.
So I had a comfortable job and like,
yeah, I had a young daughter.
She was like three years old.
So it's not the comfortable time to leave
a steady job and dive into a world
of the unknown entrepreneurship.
But then after thinking for a while, and
I was very lucky.
(03:26):
My husband was super supportive and that was
a big part of my success.
So he encouraged me to think about it
more and to pursue it because ultimately the
fear of failure was not as strong of
my fear of not trying.
(03:46):
So for me, and that's actually a really
stand for this.
So following your instinct and being brave, because
there's nothing.
It's like in the days when you die,
you're probably not going to think about all
like, oh, I failed in this and I
failed there.
You're going to think about the things you
haven't done and you haven't yet, you haven't
achieved.
So I really wanted to, to try no
matter what.
(04:06):
And I was prepared to take the risk.
And that's very important.
And that's, I would encourage anyone to do
that.
Thank you.
That's an awesome piece of insight.
And I think it's something that people miss
a lot.
They are scared of doing something and they
do not consider what is the consequence of
not doing it.
And that maybe that is actually a much
scarier thing.
(04:27):
So thanks for sharing that.
Very useful.
Totally.
Because people are afraid of like, oh, what
if it doesn't work out, et cetera.
But think about what if you don't try,
so what's worse for you?
So not trying or not working out.
Absolutely.
So now let's talk a little bit about
end users.
They are the people for whom we want
(04:48):
this podcast to be useful.
And there's a lot happening right now in
our space.
It's very active and, you know, so in
this context of like all that's happening at
the moment, why would you say companies should
go with Microsoft stack solutions as opposed to
(05:09):
their competitors?
I mean, when you look at most businesses,
most businesses, I'd say, if not all businesses
are probably using Windows, Outlook, Teams is very
popular since COVID, Word, Excel.
You're probably using Azure.
You might not even know it.
(05:30):
You're probably using SharePoint, Power Platform to some
degree.
So these are all solutions provided by Microsoft.
And it makes a lot of sense to
have all these technologies being connected and talking
to each other, because if you want to
be productive and effective, you want your systems
to be aligned, right?
And to sit in the most efficient place.
(05:52):
So I think that's the benefit of having
everything provided by the same vendor.
Now, of course, there is a risk putting
all your eggs in one basket.
And the only downside, I'd say, is if
you have one supplier that comes with the
risk.
(06:13):
But when you think it's like Microsoft is
a pretty stable, big company, so the second
largest organisation in the world in terms of
your shareholding, and they've grown tremendously.
And when you look at the amount of
innovation that's going into them right now, it's
a pretty safe bet, I'd say.
So, yeah.
(06:34):
That's very true.
And that's one thing that I've found very
exciting about it lately.
So we use this as a company, right?
You know this, Microsoft, and particularly the whole
Microsoft 365 range.
And very often, I'll go into the list
of Microsoft 365 apps, just log into my
account, and often there's going to be a
new one that, oh, I didn't know that
existed.
(06:54):
And they just keep adding new features, new
tools, new capabilities.
And now, even just something as simple as
Microsoft 365 has awesome elements, awesome pieces of
technology.
There's a whole learning thing now that I've
discovered very recently with courses you can take
as an employee.
So that's also one thing I find is
really cool as a Microsoft user.
(07:17):
Very much so.
I mean, there's so much.
It's so hard to keep on top of
it.
But there's a massive investment behind it.
It's like they're probably the most serious company
right now that looks at the businesses, not
just the personal productivity, but businesses as an
organisation.
So I would say it's the benefits outweigh
the risks, definitely.
(07:38):
That makes a lot of sense, yes.
So when companies are implementing larger Microsoft solutions,
like, for example, Dynamics 365, in your experience,
what are the main challenges and pitfalls that
lead to project failure?
That's one of the big fears people have,
right?
(07:58):
So what have you seen as main challenges
and pitfalls?
I mean, starting a new project is, I
totally understand and sympathise with a lot of
companies that are on board on a new
CRM or new ERP system.
And it could be scary because you actually
don't know what you don't know.
And that's kind of one of the, yeah,
(08:20):
a lot of them take a lot of
time to decide.
And again, that leads to my first point
when I was talking about jumping into the
unknown and the fear of failure.
It will be there.
So especially if you haven't had this experience
before, you're starting something new.
And I've seen a lot of, like, over
my 25 years in this space, I've seen
(08:41):
a lot of good practises and I've seen
a lot of mistakes that people have made.
But a couple of examples I really want
to give our audience of things they can
do in the beginning of a project and
maybe at the end of the project, because
these are very important things to make it
successful.
So when, and again, because you're starting something
(09:01):
new, and if you don't have the internal
knowledge of that ERP or CRM solution, you
are relying on an external provider to bring
that knowledge.
So you're putting your trust in an external
organisation, which is great because there's so many
reputable partners out there, but you're putting all
(09:22):
your trust in that organisation.
And sometimes even that organisation would need help
from your team, and you might not have
the knowledge or resources to provide that help.
So it is quite confusing starting this and
especially defining your requirements, et cetera, and you're
relying on someone else coming in and in
(09:43):
and out of your organisation and trying to
gather this so they can create these processes
and everything, so as a requirements review.
But the best practises that I've seen, and
a lot of organisations have now woken up
to that, is to hiring an internal project
manager.
So this is someone who doesn't work for
the partner or the vendor that is implementing
(10:05):
the system, they work for you as an
end user.
And it could be, depends on the duration
of the project.
It could be someone for a few months
for the duration of the project, or it
could be for a few years if it's
a complex implementation.
So it could be freelance, it could be
permanent, but this person, it works for you.
They're paid by you to work for you,
represent your interests, and they know about it.
(10:27):
You need to hire someone experienced who has
done it before and who can guide you.
Maybe they can guide you with the selection
of the solution, with the selection of the
vendors.
They're knowledgeable.
You're not doing it from a position of
not knowing and worrying about making a mistake.
You're hiring someone internally that has been there,
has done that, and brings experience.
(10:48):
So this type of internal project manager is
also highly valuable for the partners you work
with, because they have someone that they can
speak the same language.
And certainly the implementation is much more productive
from day one, because you have two knowledgeable
sides talking to each other and thinking about
defining what a success looks like in common
(11:09):
terms.
So that role is absolutely crucial for the
success of a project.
Otherwise, you're relying just on an external organisation
to make the success for you.
So that's step number one.
And then, clearly, the implementation, there are lots
of...
It could be quite complex, etc.
So I'm not going to talk about it.
(11:29):
We don't have enough time.
But at the end of the implementation, also,
that's another common mistake.
A lot of people think, oh, I've implemented
the system, job done.
So it's like, it's all great.
But the success of the implementation is not
just about the system and the solution.
It's about people and the user adoption.
So make sure that you plan for that,
(11:52):
because you might have the best processes, the
best system.
But if your users have not been trained
on using it, if they have not been
involved in the process, and they don't know
how to use the system, there'll be so
much resistance.
And they will not use it in the
right way.
They might not even use it at all.
So many implementations, they won't even touch it.
(12:14):
So they just say, well, I have no
idea.
It looks different from what I'm used to.
I used to do it this way.
You want me to do it that way?
I won't do it.
I won't bother.
I'll just carry on doing what I was
doing.
So it's very, very important.
And I'm simplifying.
But user adoption is a very, very important
part of the success of the implementation.
So make sure that you plan for that.
(12:35):
And it might be the case that you
might need to bring another organisation, because implementation
partners are often great at delivering the systems,
but you need different skills to train someone.
So you might think about, OK, what skills
do I need?
What resource do I need in order to
make this effective?
And I know, Sandra, you've had first-hand
experience with some of our clients in that.
(12:57):
So what are your thoughts on that as
well?
Well, yeah, that's been really interesting, because for
us on the training side, we're kind of
the people to whom the clients come when
they have a system they're not using.
So this is like, we see essentially the
results of bad user adoption practises, user adoption
that was not done properly, not done with
the right priorities in mind, or sometimes not
(13:19):
done at all.
And then the clients come to us, and
they go, OK, well, I've invested all that
money into my system.
People are not using it.
And there's all these things I want to
do with it, but I can't do anything,
because I don't know how.
I don't want to call back the partner.
I've already put so much money into it.
So now it feels like a huge waste.
Can you help me?
So that's kind of where we are.
And that's why we've been trying as a
(13:42):
company to advocate for better user adoption practises,
because it's actually so important to your client's
happiness at the end.
And training is a big part of that.
It's not the only part, but it's a
big part.
And one thing that's important to understand when
we're in the middle of Microsoft technologies is
we're used to it, but it does take
a bit of learning, especially Microsoft Dynamics.
(14:04):
It's a really powerful solution, but you can't
just go log into it and know how
to use it.
There's a lot of other CRMs you can
do that.
You can kind of fly through learning a
few things, but Dynamics, you have to be
hot.
So yeah, definitely user adoption is really important,
and training needs to be a big part
(14:26):
of it, which it's not really at the
moment.
And I would say also training with future
-proofing in mind, because very often when training
is done, we're just training a first round
of users.
And we're not thinking about how are the
new joiners going to be trained afterwards?
How is the user going to manage when
they just want to do a tiny update
or a tiny tweak to their customisation system?
(14:49):
We're creating a solution where they're overly reliant
on the partner or on learning partners to
come back in every time there's a new
need, and that creates a reluctance and a
resistance.
And then people just don't get trained, and
then people just don't use the system.
So it's definitely, I completely agree with you,
absolutely essential.
And there's one thing I'm curious about.
(15:11):
So I know you've been very involved in
supporting partner with the first thing you were
talking about, getting that external consultant within the
organisation to support with the communications with the
partners and with the implementation.
Is there a success story that you'd be
able to share without breaking confidentiality, like examples
of a scenario when you've accompanied an end
(15:34):
-user successfully with a model like this?
So again, I won't mention names, but there've
been examples, a lot of examples of partners
putting together requests for information, like requests for
proposals, RFPs.
So that's the customer comes together with a
(15:58):
bunch of requirements and they go out with
this RFP and RFI.
And it's done with something in mind that
they wanted to, but without understanding really the
journey and what their real needs are.
So as I said, that goes back to,
you don't know what you don't know.
(16:19):
So you're asking the vendors and the providers
to send you back information for what you
think is important to you, but you're missing
the big picture.
So you blindly going after a certain set
of requirements that you've done.
And we've seen that they select someone to
deliver what they want.
And that partner goes after nods and say,
(16:41):
yeah, we're ticking every box on what you
want.
And at the end of the implementation is
like, oops, we've missed out this and we've
missed out that.
And the partner you've selected or the vendor
selected just can't provide it because your requirements
and scope was this.
And you had no visibility of what you
really needed.
And you actually, sometimes your scope was bigger
(17:03):
than what you needed.
So, or it might have been in a
completely direction from where you needed to go.
So there's a lot of that.
And on the other spectrum, we've seen partners
requesting the end users to have an internal
resource or the end users, the customer proactively
(17:26):
hiring and cleverly hiring this person ahead of
time.
So when you have this person from day
one, that actually works really well.
It saves you a lot of time, a
lot of money as well, because you're certainly
focused on the things you want.
And actually you gain speed because you're doing
(17:46):
things properly.
So ultimately it costs you less.
You might need to pay that person, but
this person will save you so much money
from the implementation and the time and efficiency.
So it's a no brainer when you think
about it.
But I've seen this done successfully now because
(18:08):
customers don't know about this model.
They often realise it later throughout the project.
And at that point, this person comes in
a recovery mode.
So to undo the things that were done
and fix the mistakes.
And this is a much more expensive scenario.
So if you want to do it properly,
do it before you even start implementation.
(18:29):
Find someone with experience and knowledge in, if
you want to implement the ERP system, find
someone who's done it before, who's chosen and
implemented the solutions that you want to implement,
because that would be really the best and
most effective way you can help yourself.
(18:50):
And the partner who is going to work
with you to do the actual implementation.
That's very true.
And it was also a really good point
you made about how just the scoping itself
is enough, like the initial building of the
plan.
It's hard as a business to know exactly
how to do this, how do you identify
the real needs, how it's really valuable to
(19:11):
actually have guidance from somebody who's done it
before at that stage of the process.
Exactly, exactly.
Now, talking of user adoption and adopting new
technologies.
So we've talked a little bit about how
we're seeing an acceleration in our space of
(19:32):
updates and news.
And particularly something that's happening right now is
we're getting a lot of new things in
the AI area and in the low-code
area with Power Platform and solutions like this.
How do you see this impacting Microsoft end
users and what can they do to stay
on top of the technology progress and of
(19:54):
what's happening with the Microsoft products?
Oh my God, this is a massive area
and this is coming to us at the
speed of light, Sandra.
And we just can't ignore this anymore.
And just to put things into perspective, so
Chad GPT had the fastest growth ever when
(20:18):
you look at the time they got to
1 million users.
Guess how long it took them to get
to 1 million users?
And I'll give you examples.
So Netflix got there in three and a
half years.
Airbnb got there in two and a half
years.
Twitter, it took them two years.
Facebook, 10 months.
What do you think for Chad GPT?
(20:40):
I think I've heard it.
It's something crazy like a week or just
completely mad.
Five days, five days.
It's mad.
It's mad.
In five days they got to 1 million
users.
And I was like, we're talking like different
volume right now.
So what is this telling us?
That we all need to get on board
with AI quickly.
I mean, it's already in our lives whether
(21:01):
we like it or not.
And a lot of the things we do,
a lot of the companies are using AI
already.
A lot of the Microsoft solutions are using
AI already.
But we need to start understanding it and
customers will need to start thinking about it
because end users need to start thinking about
it because their own customers will be asking
questions about it.
(21:22):
They'll be expecting it.
Employees would be expecting you to get on
board.
So I mean, it's very hard to predict
where we'll be in a year, but it's
going to be much more advanced where it's
now at this rate.
I mean, just looking six months ago, we
thought AI was, I was like seeing so
(21:44):
much in every month.
There's just so much being released and done.
It's just, I've never seen such an innovation.
And years ago, we were excited about internet.
This is much bigger than internet.
So yeah, I think right now we just
can't ignore it.
You can't just put your head in the
(22:04):
sand and say, well, I'll just see what
happens because it's developing so quickly.
If you're not keeping up, you'll have so
much to catch on.
It's ridiculous.
And to be honest, I think everyone needs
to be in an AI business.
Every business will have an AI element.
(22:27):
And the risk is if you're not, you
probably will be out of business because all
your competitors will be.
So it's not an option to say, oh,
it's not for me.
Whatever business you're in, it's most likely going
to impact you and demand it from you
to stay competitive.
So otherwise, you're not going to be productive.
You're not going to be efficient.
(22:48):
You'll be losing people.
You'll be like, customers will be leaving.
And again, you can't sustain your business unless
you start thinking about it.
So yeah, I think it needs to be
on top of mind for everyone.
Unfortunately, it's not a good to have.
It's a must have now.
That's true.
And I mean, it's a really powerful tool
if you think about it.
(23:08):
I know there's a lot of reluctance like
this number of companies that just don't really
know how, don't really want to start looking
into this.
But there's been good results in terms of
productivity improvement, just engagement because it's actually fun
once you get started to use AI for
certain things, see what it comes back with.
(23:28):
There's a good reward for your investment, I
feel, in this particular technology.
Absolutely.
And then there are lots of ways to
learn about it.
There are free resources, et cetera.
And for you to try as well.
Just get your hands dirty.
Play with it.
It's like, what's the worst that can happen?
So yeah.
Very true.
Now, there's one thing, though, where I'd love
(23:50):
your insights.
Obviously, as you said, this is accelerating really
quickly, right?
AI, there's new copilots coming out all the
time, new updates, new features, new capabilities.
It's really overwhelming.
And even the people in our space, like
the consultants who are head down into it,
they are struggling to keep up.
It's too fast for them even.
(24:12):
So what would be your advice to an
end user company whose main focus is not
IT and it's not AI, when we're already
struggling, what would you say they should do
in order to make the most of what's
happening with AI?
Yeah.
I mean, I completely understand it.
It's normal to be scared of the unknown.
And it's, yeah, with AI, it's like such
(24:33):
a huge beast that is, like, where do
you tackle it?
And it's like, well, it's...
So maybe define first, like, what does it
mean for you?
And maybe look at the areas in your
business where you are least productive.
So are there any areas?
(24:54):
Because every business has areas where you're not
productive and efficient.
And I bet you there are ways AI
can help.
So I wouldn't start doing research for AI,
for everything AI, because you'll get lost.
And it's like, yeah, you started exploring this
and one thing leads to another and another
and another.
And it is just like you've wasted days
(25:14):
and months just researching it.
But just be practical.
So for your business, where do you want
to improve productivity and efficiency?
And why are you wasting time?
Why are you wasting resources right now?
So is there anything that can help you?
And then go and maybe ask Chad GPT,
what is the best tool that can help
(25:36):
you?
Ask AI to help you find the answer.
And I know that, I mean, there is
a risk.
I mean, some jobs might be at risk,
because maybe you don't need certain jobs anymore,
if it could be automated, etc.
But it's also an opportunity, because maybe you
can refocus people to develop more strategic roles
(26:02):
and to focus on doing more strategic work
or more creative work and something that would
add even more value.
So some things that AI can't do, get
AI to do the mundane, repeatable jobs that
you don't need in human intelligence.
But just focus your people on something that
they enjoy and that they can bring more
(26:23):
value than anyone else.
That's a really good advice.
And I was thinking about that recently, that
indeed, AI, that's a way for essentially increasing
your workforce without increasing your workforce.
Suddenly, you're freeing up time from people's day
-to-day jobs, repetitive tasks, time-consuming tasks,
(26:43):
you're accelerating the way they work.
And suddenly, they can focus on other things.
They can be happier because they're doing things
that are much more creative and much more
interesting.
They can start new projects, they can get
help in areas where they would be stuck.
So it's actually, if you look at this
as an opportunity, suddenly, it's a very empowering
tool.
And that's actually the way I got started
(27:05):
with it.
I just started asking myself, whenever I had
a task I didn't really want to do,
or a task that I felt was going
to take me ages, how can AI help
me?
And as a business leader, I think that's
something you can do to start AI adoption
in your business.
I mean, you, Elena, were a big part
of us starting using AI because you started
using it yourself.
You told us about how you were using
it, and that was an inspiration for me
(27:27):
to try.
And then I just tell myself, okay, so
I really don't want to be writing five
social media posts today.
How can AI make this faster?
And I would never actually write the entire
post with AI because I feel that's not
where it's good, but it helps generate ideas,
it helps to generate a structure, and then
you have saved yourself at least half the
time it would have taken if AI wasn't
(27:48):
there at all.
Absolutely.
And I love how people can be creative
with AI and do things that you would
have never thought that it was technology for.
And yeah, so it's interesting.
Once you get hooked into that, you see
more and more opportunities of using it and
leveraging for day-to-day stuff as well.
(28:09):
So it's not just strategic big areas, but
just small things.
What could save you time and make you
more productive?
Absolutely.
So you sound like you're more on the
excited side when it comes to that, right?
Some people are excited, some people are apprehensive.
From your point of view, what are the
(28:29):
main pros, the main risks that we need
to pay attention to?
And how would you advise companies when it
comes to managing the risks around AI?
So again, it needs to be...
So control is very important.
So in terms of control of your data
and where things sit and what people are
(28:51):
using.
So therefore, actually using Microsoft Copilot is a
really safe bet because if you're just using
open AI, your data could be shared with
your competitors and all the information could be
shared with your competitors.
So I think it's very important.
(29:13):
Other risks in terms of individual roles, et
cetera, a lot of people are worried.
And we work in the tech space where
some developers are saying, am I going to
be redundant if AI can do my coding?
So what am I here for?
But there are a lot of other ways
we can start thinking and re-skilling.
(29:33):
So thinking of what type of skills you
need in order to stay relevant.
And so it's all about relevancy.
How can you remain relevant in the age
of AI?
And thinking, okay, I might be losing some
of the jobs I'm getting and losing some
of the things I've been doing comfortably, but
what could I learn?
(29:54):
What could I gain that would give me
a differentiation and advantage?
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