October 29, 2024 • 37 mins
Mat Batterbee shares his unconventional career path, emphasising the value of diverse experiences and the potential for individuals without traditional qualifications to excel in tech. He discusses the benefits of remote work, the challenges partners face in finding talent, and the importance of cybersecurity for small businesses. Mat also highlights how embracing failure can lead to growth.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hi everyone and welcome to the 365 Pod.
This is a podcast ran by myself and
a couple of people from 365 Talent Portal
and the aim of the podcast really is
to talk about Microsoft Insights, Spectre Space and
how to teach people to leverage more knowledge
and user sharing within the ecosystem.
So today we have Matt Batterby.
(00:23):
Hi Matt.
Hi.
Yeah, so obviously you are the Global GTM
Solutions Director at Pax8.
You're very well credited in the ecosystem.
I've known you for a couple of years
now just from various conferences as have most
of the Talent 365 Portal team and we
know that, well, the reason we wanted you
on is because you've got a great understanding
(00:46):
of working with numerous partners, you're coming from
a different perspective and you've obviously been incredibly
successful at such a young age.
So welcome to the podcast Matt.
Thank you.
Thank you very much for having me on
and thanks for the warm welcome.
I feel like you've oversold me a little
bit but let's do it.
That's what it's about, you know, we're gassing
people up I guess.
But yeah, we'll go straight into a couple
(01:07):
of the questions Matt.
I just thank you so much for being
on the podcast in the first place but
one of the things for those who might
not know you in terms of our audience
is, you know, what's one thing that you
can tell the listeners that you think they
wouldn't necessarily expect from you?
That's something a bit different, like a personal
hobby or, you know, just give you the
(01:29):
context.
So yeah, I mean I've got two that
I don't think a lot of people know
about me.
So one is I absolutely love country music.
So I always, anytime the country artist comes
over to the UK I'm normally going to
see them with my wife which is awesome.
And the second thing is I just love
out hiking.
I love going out on my own in
(01:52):
the mountains or with my dogs.
My dogs keep me company as well.
But yeah, no headphones, just listen to the
nature and just enjoy a bit of peace.
That's my little hobby.
Definitely, I definitely agree with you on that
on the hiking thing.
I can't, a lot of my friends listen
to country music.
I've been to a Tim McGraw concert once
in Georgia, America, so that was kind of
(02:13):
cool.
It was pretty, that was actually my first
ever concert and I've been to a few
American country music, Texan, Georgian, where they do
all the, they ride the bulls and stuff.
I've been there as well.
Oh cool, yeah, no I need to, I
definitely need to up it a notch.
I've been to concerts in the UK.
We haven't done one yet over in the
(02:33):
States, so that's definitely on our list.
We want to go to Nashville, that's on
our to-do list.
That's what you've got to do, you have
to go to Tennessee, you've got to go
to a rodeo as well.
But that's pretty cool, thanks for sharing that
Matt.
On the hiking obviously, that's a passion we
both definitely share.
I think the best, the best thing about
that is when you go up a mountain
you don't have any signals.
(02:53):
Although there is, there's data on Everest, but
not apparently in the Lake District, so I
don't really, I can't fathom the two, but
that's I guess why we all like it.
Yeah, excellent.
And then you've been, correct me if I'm
wrong, in the tech space since 2017, it
might be a little bit earlier than that.
So obviously you've come from a different perspective.
(03:15):
Tell people a little bit about your history
and how you ended up working in this
space without coming from an IT or degree
background really.
Yeah, so I mean, you know, I've done
a number of different roles in the past.
I mean, I even was in army training
once upon a time and then got injured
and was kind of thinking of leaving anyway.
(03:36):
And then I was a gym instructor, so
I did the fitness industry side of things
as well.
So I've definitely always been a good people
person.
I think if you can get up and
dance around or do a spinning class in
front of people, you can talk to people
in a boardroom.
It's really easy.
And then, you know, I worked for a
startup business, you know, help them build out
a call centre and build out those policies
(03:57):
and procedures.
So I kind of came from a very
unique background of doing multiple things in different
industries, even healthcare and so on.
And then I saw this role within Microsoft
as a contractor and, you know, thought why
not give it a go and see what
happens.
And I think what kind of impressed in
the interview was I wasn't afraid to challenge,
(04:20):
even though I probably maybe knew less than
the people in the interview.
But they also tried to challenge me on
something in my industry that I worked in
at the time.
And I was able to kind of push
back and say, well, actually, I know my
industry, and here's the facts and figures.
So, yeah, I mean, you know, coming from
a different background, it was really interesting when
(04:41):
I actually started at Microsoft.
And there was a couple of people in
the team that had been around Microsoft for
a while, and then a couple of us
that kind of coming in fresh from completely
different industries.
And it was really interesting to hear that,
those, you know, those comments of, well, we've
done it like this for so long.
And it was me and the other guy
who were coming in from the outside kind
(05:03):
of going, why do you do it like
that?
Why is this happening?
And how can we improve this?
And we were the ones kind of looking
for ways in which we can improve, whereas
so many others were kind of looking at
that status quo.
And so it was good coming in.
And I think that's where I was able
to stand out somewhat is I maybe did
things a little bit different to the traditional
(05:23):
way of doing things, because I just looked
at it completely differently to a lot of
people.
Yeah.
And you've not come from the same cloth,
so you've not had that blueprint internally, where
it works this way, it works this way.
If you tend to come in from a
different perspective and just be more disruptive, and
as you said, challenging, I guess that's a
really important point to make to our listeners
is don't be afraid to touch your gut
(05:44):
feeling.
And if someone's telling you something, or if
you're coming from a different perspective, challenge them
on that, definitely.
You work amongst hundreds of partners and have
done since 2017.
What would you say is the biggest challenge
that they face compared to pre-pandemic or
what's changed over the...
I mean, we've got the markets changed quite
(06:04):
considerably, but for you from the partner's perspective,
what would you say is the biggest challenge
for them at the moment?
I definitely think in terms of depending on
what areas that they're focussing on, be it
AI, be it even dynamics and solutions like
that, is definitely a lack of talent in
the industry, which means that they are getting
outpriced very easily.
(06:25):
I think larger partners or larger companies that
have that budget can spend a little bit
more compared to a smaller business.
So definitely being outpriced, but I definitely think
since COVID, there's been a massive shift in
where people can do their roles.
And I'm a prime example of that.
Even when I was at Micro or even
now at PAX 8, part of the Microsoft
(06:46):
corporate teams of both, I was the only
person located in the UK doing those roles.
Everyone else was in North America.
So being able to do a role with
a lot of North America focus, but do
it from North Wales in my small little
town that has one road, a castle and
a beach, being able to do that.
(07:06):
Exactly.
What more do you need?
I've got everything I need right here, but
the industry has definitely changed.
So I think in terms of those challenges,
it is worth looking even outside of the
UK.
I think it frustrates me the most when
I see companies say, I don't know, let's
say they're located in Manchester or something like
that.
And they want someone that can go to
the office five days a week.
(07:28):
And I question that and say, well, no
wonder you're being outpriced, especially somewhere like that.
It's a big city.
There's a lot of competition.
There's a lot of companies there.
But being able to stretch further afield is
something that would be extremely valuable to any
business, especially whether it's places in the UK
(07:49):
that potentially don't have a higher salary bracket.
If you're in London, it's a high salary
bracket, but you hire someone up north, like
you and I, maybe we're a bit cheaper.
Definitely.
Or even, like I say, outside of the
UK, I think that's where people can get
some strong talent as well.
Definitely.
I would 100% agree with that.
(08:10):
And one other thing about a lot of
the companies I've worked with over the past
seven years, I guess, is they were so
used to having people come in the office.
And I get that companies have invested a
lot in these lovely office spaces, and I
love that they have that.
But don't be afraid to move away from
this old style model.
And yeah, if you hire somebody in London
who is on 70, 80K, but in theory,
(08:32):
you can get somebody who's based in Doncaster
for less money, and they probably could get
into London quicker than someone can get from
one side of London to the other.
So that's also something I think companies need
to be more open-minded.
If you want somebody in the office, don't
be afraid, not the train strikes or whatever,
to look bigger amongst the country.
Because I did some training for AI the
week, and I got home back to Newcastle
(08:54):
from London before the directors got home to
the other part of London because there was
all the delays in London.
And I emailed them, I was like, did
everyone get home safe?
And they were like, you're home already.
I was like, yeah.
And they couldn't fathom that because it was
quicker for me to get basically to Scotland.
So yeah, I definitely agree.
Look to the South Americas.
(09:15):
There's some amazing tech talent from the universities
coming out in Rio.
If you're a Spanish-speaking country, that also
means we can bring in bigger implementations because
you've got that multilingual style.
Yes, an accent is an accent, but at
the end of the day, it doesn't make
a difference.
I think that's really good advice to give
to companies.
Don't be afraid to look to other countries.
(09:35):
Is there anything, advice-wise, that you would
say that they can overcome being outpriced when
they are competing for salaries and stuff?
Because we know ourselves post-pandemic, some of
the bigger partners were charging 150k packages or
even base salaries for someone who only had
five years experience because they had the budgets.
(09:56):
And then your little small to medium business
who has been around for a couple of
years, they can't compete with that.
So what advice would you give those partners?
I think it's, I'd say it's sort of
having less of a strict kind of requirement
for the person taking on that role.
And I think, I mean, I've even got
an example of that where I remember we
were hiring someone, a company I was at,
(10:18):
and in the job description, it said, I
think it was 10 years experience.
And I kind of asked the question, said,
could I do that job?
And the person actually responded, and I didn't
realise I was asked in a way that
sounded like I was interested in the role,
but they kind of said, oh, that role's
kind of beneath where you're at.
And I said, I don't have 10 years
(10:39):
experience.
I don't have half that experience.
So if I can do that role and
it's beneath me, then we don't have to
have someone with 10 years experience.
And also when I look at Microsoft, I
think it's great.
And I look forward to the day that
I can say I've got 20 plus years
experience with this industry and be seen as
(11:00):
even more of a leader in the industry.
But when you look at the Microsoft licencing,
it doesn't look anything like it did two
years ago, let alone 10 years ago.
So sometimes having that fresher knowledge is actually
going to be extremely valuable.
In fact, it's funny, with the requirements from
Microsoft for some of the programmes for people
(11:21):
to attain the fundamentals certifications, the people that
fail those more are the ones that have
been around it longer, because actually they remember
how it was.
So let's say dynamics has changed and buttons
have moved places and they've made it more
productive.
Actually, dynamics looks completely different.
So those people that have been around it
(11:41):
longer are actually more likely to fail those
certs because they remember how it was.
So I think having that balance is ideal.
But yeah, I mean, again, you get someone
in who's a bit more fresher to the
industry, fresh ideas.
They've not got any bad habits in the
industry as well.
All these things can be even more valuable
sometimes than 10 plus years experience.
(12:04):
I definitely agree with that.
And I know that there is a big
movement, especially coming down from Microsoft, from the
distributors like yourself, where it's like, look at
the industry experience, look at the soft skills,
because I say this to my customers all
the time, you can't train personality, but you
can train technology.
So think about, you know, somebody who's driven,
who's more interested, who's innovative, and they might
(12:25):
have the industry experience.
And I know a lot of the partners
are moving towards that mentality, I guess, on
the point of adopting fresh ideas or being
more flexible on the job descriptions.
You mentioned don't put a figure down for
10 years.
Don't be fussy on location.
You know, is there anything else that you
would want to add to that, just to
give them a little more knowledge?
(12:49):
Yeah, I think it's just being very open
-minded, I think, is the way that I
would, you know, for example, I've never, well,
I did one week of a degree course,
and knew that I was not going to
last for three, four years, however long a
degree, don't even know how long a degree
is.
So that's not great.
(13:11):
But, you know, I didn't go to university,
I, at the time, didn't see the need
in me.
I was quite happy in what I was
doing in the fitness industry, and I think
I was going to university to do that.
But again, you know, I see people putting
down these roles where, you know, a degree
is required, and sometimes nothing specific, just a
(13:32):
degree.
And sometimes I have to question why, you
know, do you just want someone who's in
debt?
Like, you know, I can't think of why
is that degree, and you're not even, you
know, I get it if it's, I don't
know, maybe it's a business leadership role, and
they'd like someone to have a business leadership
degree, but sometimes it's not specific.
They just want someone who's been to university.
(13:52):
That doesn't make sense to me when I
think life experience can be even more valuable
sometimes.
Definitely, definitely.
And people, I know that there's a lot
of movement, I think, from people at Pax
8 and various other organisations who they've mentioned
about hiring people from apprenticeship level, and all
of those take about the skills.
(14:13):
I personally did history and political science.
How that interjects to me being an alliance
manager for a training partner and an implementation
partner, I do not understand how that works.
But, you know, so that also shows if
they want a degree, which companies shouldn't, you
know, don't say computer science.
You know, how many people in the finance
(14:33):
industry now work in technology?
Because they will, oh, I love the attention
to detail.
So don't just look at the university graduates,
be open-minded.
Yeah, 100% definitely, I agree with that.
And this is it.
And I feel like I'm in the perfect
role where I am in, and what I
mean by that is in an indirect provider,
because, and I think this stems back from
even being a fitness instructor.
(14:54):
The thing that I used to get out
of being a fitness instructor was I loved
helping people.
And in the role that I'm in now,
I get to help businesses.
And then, and I always say, someone asked
me the other day, how would I describe
my job to like my nana, who knows
nothing about technology?
And I said, I would say I'm a
helper.
I help these businesses here, which helps Pax8,
(15:15):
which helps Microsoft.
I am just the helper in the middle.
And I think those skills of just being
passionate about helping other people, and whether it's,
you know, their goals and getting in shape,
that's helped me along this journey of where
I'm at.
And those skills help me now, even though
they are completely different industries.
Yeah, I suppose that's such a good point.
(15:36):
Look at the value and what somebody values
when you're interviewing them.
What motivates this person?
What do they care about?
Ask them about their own hobbies.
You know, if they just like sitting at
a computer, that's not bad, most likely be
a developer.
If they like to be more active and
challenging, maybe they want to be challenged and
more people facing.
There's quite a lot of, you know, don't
look, be shy away from the shots.
(15:56):
Soft skills, I would definitely say.
Yeah, I agree with everything you've said there.
Earlier, you mentioned about bad habits, you know,
from either consultant developer perspective or just the
partner perspective.
Is there, you know, in terms of any
of the bad habits that you've observed in
the industry, you know, what can partners and
end users do to eliminate these and what
(16:17):
would they be really?
Yeah, that's quite a good question, sorry.
Yeah, no, it's a good question.
I think, you know, I see the bad
habits all the time and I don't see
it as it's anyone's particular fault.
I think Microsoft evolves very quickly.
I think a lot changes very quickly, but
also partners are also working very hard to
(16:39):
keep their customers and, you know, offer more
value to their customers and so on.
So trying to keep up with that, with
the technology, with the programmes from Microsoft, it
can become very, very difficult.
And I think in terms of, you know,
being able to kind of maximise the Microsoft
partnership is definitely something that I think can
bring a lot of value to partners, whether
it's, you know, the marketing consultations and free
(17:03):
go campaigns in a box and even the
technical pre-sales and deployment services.
These kind of resources from Microsoft, I mean,
there's upwards of $400,000 worth of investment
that partners can access as a Microsoft partner.
So they can really tap into a lot
of resources.
And as they start to tap into those
resources, they're going to see how they can
(17:24):
help educate their own people internally and build
up from within their business as well.
So yes, there's a tonne of value in
to the business in accessing those resources, whether
it's, you know, the marketing and so on,
it's going to attract more customers.
You're going to maximise every single customer opportunity,
but actually in really accessing those, you can
help build up your team internally as well
(17:46):
and help build a stronger team.
And then you start to almost keep building
upwards.
So you're not looking to hire people up
here because you've built them up and you're
looking to hire down here more, and then
you can get more entry-level people.
And I guess as well, that'll be a
way to tackle being outbidded by other competition.
(18:06):
And a big point that we always talk
about from the value proposition side and to
really improve staff retention is about training.
So, you know, a lot of companies these
days have a couple of hours set aside
a month where their employees have to stay
up to date with the latest technology, or,
you know, if you want to get this
certification or this course.
So yeah, definitely, I guess that's two points
(18:26):
that is really don't underestimate training and staying
up to date.
We have to, I mean, there's a new
release every 30 seconds.
Who knows what co-pilot's going to be
like soon.
It's changed since last week.
A hundred percent.
And there's nothing more when you are, you
know, maybe it's someone at a lower level
in an organisation, there's nothing worse than every
time a senior role becomes available, an external
(18:46):
is hired because it kind of kills your
expectation in terms of getting that promotion and
earning your way up the ladder when every
time a role, and it's not to say
you're going to go from, I don't know,
working in the call centre to being a
corporate vice president of the company.
But it's if every time these roles become
available, they just go straight external.
(19:07):
You're not, it's not even a case of
being outpriced.
You're just, you're not giving anyone a career
development plan that's realistic.
They'll go somewhere else that even offers that.
So sometimes, you know, money is important to
everyone.
I'm not going to, not going to be
stupid on that one, but I mean, I
I've moved roles for less money, but with
higher progression opportunities.
(19:29):
Um, because that's what motivates me.
Yes.
I need a certain amount of money to
look after my family, but you know, I
want a long-term career that I'm proud
of as well.
And I think if I'm not being given
that, then I would look elsewhere over more
than just money.
And I think, so, you know, being able
to build people up within your organisation and
(19:49):
promote from within people coming in at the
bottom end of the company, we'll also see
that happening.
And other people will talk and tell each
other stories of, Oh, I was doing your
role three years ago.
And they might have a director title or
senior director or VP.
And those things can be extremely valuable to
any business as well.
Yeah, definitely.
I really agree with that.
(20:10):
I think companies that have that internal and
they have not created that glass ceiling, they
are the companies with a strong retention and
their employees feel valued.
Whereas the organisations who like you said, hire
externally, they chuck high salaries, everybody to incentivise
them to say, but then they're like, well,
I'm the amount of times I've spoken to
people and like, I can't leave because I'm
on a ridiculous salary.
You know, the company actually, I have a
(20:31):
credit card that the company actually paid for
my takeaways for my family at the weekend
because they couldn't have that person leave, but
they weren't giving them what the person wanted,
which was a weekend.
Anyway, it was, there's nightmares of like that
across the entire market where companies are valuing
the person, they just see the skill set.
And again, that's another point I think we
could discuss for another several hours.
(20:54):
Promoting within it is really key.
And obviously alongside the training, I guess another
point to make on top of that is
in terms of the mindset shift required for
the partners to stay relevant at the moment
in the changing market, obviously, you know, there's
a couple of years ago, it was all
BC, then it was co-pilot power platform.
(21:16):
We saw that now it's more going into
cyber and more licencing.
So what will, can you discuss the mindset
shift that you think is required at the
moment for these partners to stay up to
date, to stay keen and to stay attractive
to the consumers?
Yeah, I think there's got to be a
shift in the way that partners are going
and selling to their customers.
It can't just be, I'm going to sell
(21:37):
you this product.
You know, there's a lot out there, but
also there's so many more challenges now for
an SMB more than ever before because of
how much technology is on the market.
I mean, the average SMB business uses seven
to 10 different vendors for that technology, which
kind of goes to explain why it's around
78% of SMBs have been hit with
(22:00):
a cyber attack in some way, shape or
form.
There's so many entry points.
So what I'm getting at in a long
and short way is, you know, it's how
partners can really just get to know their
customers and get to know not just the
IT decision maker, but the business decision makers
within their customers to understand, well, what challenges
are they all facing?
You know, an IT decision maker isn't going
(22:21):
to know the challenges that a sales person's
having with the CRM system is a perfect
example.
And being able to have those different conversations
and build those relationships within, you know, especially
an SMB, no customer's got the budget to
buy everything all at once, but being able
to build out an 18 month, two year
pipeline with your existing customers helps you stay
(22:44):
sticky.
You're going to continue to add that value
and you're continuing to help that customer evolve.
Essentially, you're going to help them grow their
business, which puts you in that sphere of
you're a trusted advisor.
You're not just a reseller.
You are their trusted advisor, almost like a
consultant for them.
It's going to really help them.
I think that's how customers can stay sticky.
(23:05):
And we see it all the time.
You know, customers that are buying just one
workload from Microsoft are the least sticky.
They will just jump ship for a little
bit better price.
Whereas if you're adding value services, other solutions
wrapping around that, you're not losing that customer.
You become very difficult to leave in a
(23:27):
good way.
Not that you're kind of locking in your
customers in a good way.
You are adding that value.
And you don't even in this day and
age, you don't even have to, you know,
deliver everything.
You know, I don't want to do a
sales pitch here for Pax8, but you know,
we have professional services that we help partners
with and other indirect providers too.
I want to be fair here.
Other indirect providers have those professional services as
(23:48):
well.
So the BBC, don't worry, Matt.
Yeah.
Jaffa cakes are good, but there are other
brands of cake biscuits that you can have.
But yeah.
So I just think, you know, and just
partnering up with other partners, you know, I
see it all the time at the Dynamics
events.
You see these partners that work together because
one does ERP brilliantly, the other one does
(24:08):
CRM brilliantly.
So when they have opportunities for each other,
they pass them over and they work together.
And I think being able to partner up
and have that partner network, you're going to
be able to offer everything.
And I think that's how partners can really
add a tonne of value.
It's not about being able to deliver everything.
It's about being able to just ask the
questions and understand and take those answers away.
(24:31):
And don't be afraid to really spend time
on nurturing that relationship.
And, you know, rather than jumping to the
next sale call, ask everything.
From our perspective, we started working with the
company, I think it was in February, I
met them at a conference.
We helped them on a couple of recruitment
roles, various places across the UK.
And then they asked us, oh, do you
guys do training?
And we did AI training for them.
(24:51):
And then when recently, when we were conducting
the AI training, we realised that they have
a system, dynamic system that hasn't been correctly
adopted.
Like none of the users are using it,
so they don't know how to.
So now we understand that that's a need
for them.
And we've already got a user adoption programme
that we have.
It's tailored to any world, any company.
It's very flexible.
We can, you know, we can help them.
But if I hadn't spent so much time
(25:12):
with this client, nurturing that relationship, asking those
funnel questions, why is that?
What is the issue?
What is the biggest predicament you're facing right
now that is stopping your company growing?
What does that mean for you?
And really finding out that value has meant
that we've, you know, we've done that we've
helped them considerably.
And also means hopefully at the end of
the year, that dynamic system I've spent an
(25:34):
absolute fortune with isn't going to go down
the drain.
And this is it.
I mean, you know, like security is the,
is one of the big things.
I know co-pilot and AI, but security
is the big hot topic from Microsoft.
And the funny thing is, you know, again,
I always end up using a dynamics example,
but you can slap on different security solutions
and so on.
(25:54):
But if that business, and you don't ask
the question, but they are actually, you know,
every sales person has their own Excel spreadsheet
that they're using as a CRM system that
they also share with their own personal one
drive.
So they can do a little bit of
work from home, like those things.
It's, you can do all the security you
want.
They could be emailing that to the wrong
person, if it's an Excel or anything like
(26:16):
that.
So, you know, again, it's, it's those data
silos.
It's those kinds of things.
So, but you're never going to uncover that
unless you speak to the sales team and
you speak to those leaders in the business.
So yeah, I think with partners, the big
thing that I think is a, the big
bet for not just FY25, but the future
is you have to get to know your
(26:37):
customers.
You have to, you know, be able to
offer those solutions right across the board from
Microsoft.
And, you know, that's going to be how
you're going to add real value, stay sticky
to your customers, and also attracting a lot
of net new as well.
And I think even understanding what industries the
customers are in, every industry has different challenges,
different line of business solutions that they potentially
(27:00):
require.
But again, you're not going to know that
unless you speak to them and understand what,
what do you do actually?
You know, what do you do?
It's a very simple question, but so many
partners don't ask.
They just, oh, you want 20 seats of
business premium.
Great.
I can do that for you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I guess once they feel more valued,
(27:21):
the customer, they'll continue to come back to
you and you'll probably get better job satisfaction
because you actually know you're making a difference.
And people like ourselves who are people, people,
they care about people, you know, they want
to support everybody.
They're the ones who are the best at
this role because they do actually genuinely care.
So don't be afraid to take five minutes
extra with a customer to ask those questions,
(27:42):
to find out a little bit about them.
A hundred percent agreed with that one as
well.
I guess we've kind of run through the
SMB, the cyber attack point and everything like
that.
Is there anything else that you would want
to add to that as, because it is
such a big topic for Microsoft at the
moment?
Yeah, I think, you know, especially in SMB,
you often hear the, we're too small comment
(28:05):
around SMBs and being too small for a
cyber attack.
And I think it's because when you look
at the news, it's, you know, in the
UK, you had JD sports, that's massive company
date, you know, millions of customers and, you
know, data being breached and so on.
When you're small, you're just too small to
be reported on because maybe it's a business
(28:25):
nobody's heard of, or, you know, not many
people have heard of or anything like that.
Whereas when it's JD sports, when it's the
NHS, when it's huge organisations or the government,
it's going to be a big news headline
and something that people will go and click
on.
It's just clickbait articles at the end of
the day when you've got a massive company.
So yeah, I mean, just because you're a
(28:46):
small business, even a one man band, it
doesn't matter, you know, you can still be
targeted.
And it's still very costly for a data
breach of client information, even to an SMB.
So just by spending a little bit more
to have the right solutions can save you
a lot in the long run, I think
is the big thing.
(29:07):
It's the same with, you know, you buy
clothes, you buy cheap, you buy twice, to
which I have learned recently needing to go
out and buy more new socks for when
I go on holiday tomorrow, because all my
socks had holes in because I bought cheap.
So I was told off and I bought
better socks.
It's the same with technology.
Well, I actually always buy men's socks now
(29:28):
because they're thicker than women's socks and women's
socks you can honestly, they've gone in about
six months.
So I always nick my boyfriend's socks.
So I do agree.
It's not like it's even cheaper.
It's just that the quality is better for
the men's stuff as well.
That's an issue in itself.
We won't discuss that today.
But is there anything else you think that
is really important for our listeners in terms
(29:50):
of hiring advice or anything that is important
you think that you should you want to
mention from your perspective?
Yeah, I think honestly, I think sometimes
Hi everyone and welcome to the 365 Pod.
This is a podcast ran by myself and
a couple of people from 365 Talent Portal
and the aim of the podcast really is
to talk about Microsoft Insights, Spectre Space and
how to teach people to leverage more knowledge
and user sharing within the ecosystem.
So today we have Matt Batterby.
(00:23):
Hi Matt.
Hi.
Yeah, so obviously you are the Global GTM
Solutions Director at Pax8.
You're very well credited in the ecosystem.
I've known you for a couple of years
now just from various conferences as have most
of the Talent 365 Portal team and we
know that, well, the reason we wanted you
on is because you've got a great understanding
(00:46):
of working with numerous partners, you're coming from
a different perspective and you've obviously been incredibly
successful at such a young age.
So welcome to the podcast Matt.
Thank you.
Thank you very much for having me on
and thanks for the warm welcome.
I feel like you've oversold me a little
bit but let's do it.
That's what it's about, you know, we're gassing
people up I guess.
But yeah, we'll go straight into a couple
(01:07):
of the questions Matt.
I just thank you so much for being
on the podcast in the first place but
one of the things for those who might
not know you in terms of our audience
is, you know, what's one thing that you
can tell the listeners that you think they
wouldn't necessarily expect from you?
That's something a bit different, like a personal
hobby or, you know, just give you the
(01:29):
context.
So yeah, I mean I've got two that
I don't think a lot of people know
about me.
So one is I absolutely love country music.
So I always, anytime the country artist comes
over to the UK I'm normally going to
see them with my wife which is awesome.
And the second thing is I just love
out hiking.
I love going out on my own in
(01:52):
the mountains or with my dogs.
My dogs keep me company as well.
But yeah, no headphones, just listen to the
nature and just enjoy a bit of peace.
That's my little hobby.
Definitely, I definitely agree with you on that
on the hiking thing.
I can't, a lot of my friends listen
to country music.
I've been to a Tim McGraw concert once
in Georgia, America, so that was kind of
(02:13):
cool.
It was pretty, that was actually my first
ever concert and I've been to a few
American country music, Texan, Georgian, where they do
all the, they ride the bulls and stuff.
I've been there as well.
Oh cool, yeah, no I need to, I
definitely need to up it a notch.
I've been to concerts in the UK.
We haven't done one yet over in the
(02:33):
States, so that's definitely on our list.
We want to go to Nashville, that's on
our to-do list.
That's what you've got to do, you have
to go to Tennessee, you've got to go
to a rodeo as well.
But that's pretty cool, thanks for sharing that
Matt.
On the hiking obviously, that's a passion we
both definitely share.
I think the best, the best thing about
that is when you go up a mountain
you don't have any signals.
(02:53):
Although there is, there's data on Everest, but
not apparently in the Lake District, so I
don't really, I can't fathom the two, but
that's I guess why we all like it.
Yeah, excellent.
And then you've been, correct me if I'm
wrong, in the tech space since 2017, it
might be a little bit earlier than that.
So obviously you've come from a different perspective.
(03:15):
Tell people a little bit about your history
and how you ended up working in this
space without coming from an IT or degree
background really.
Yeah, so I mean, you know, I've done
a number of different roles in the past.
I mean, I even was in army training
once upon a time and then got injured
and was kind of thinking of leaving anyway.
(03:36):
And then I was a gym instructor, so
I did the fitness industry side of things
as well.
So I've definitely always been a good people
person.
I think if you can get up and
dance around or do a spinning class in
front of people, you can talk to people
in a boardroom.
It's really easy.
And then, you know, I worked for a
startup business, you know, help them build out
a call centre and build out those policies
(03:57):
and procedures.
So I kind of came from a very
unique background of doing multiple things in different
industries, even healthcare and so on.
And then I saw this role within Microsoft
as a contractor and, you know, thought why
not give it a go and see what
happens.
And I think what kind of impressed in
the interview was I wasn't afraid to challenge,
(04:20):
even though I probably maybe knew less than
the people in the interview.
But they also tried to challenge me on
something in my industry that I worked in
at the time.
And I was able to kind of push
back and say, well, actually, I know my
industry, and here's the facts and figures.
So, yeah, I mean, you know, coming from
a different background, it was really interesting when
(04:41):
I actually started at Microsoft.
And there was a couple of people in
the team that had been around Microsoft for
a while, and then a couple of us
that kind of coming in fresh from completely
different industries.
And it was really interesting to hear that,
those, you know, those comments of, well, we've
done it like this for so long.
And it was me and the other guy
who were coming in from the outside kind
(05:03):
of going, why do you do it like
that?
Why is this happening?
And how can we improve this?
And we were the ones kind of looking
for ways in which we can improve, whereas
so many others were kind of looking at
that status quo.
And so it was good coming in.
And I think that's where I was able
to stand out somewhat is I maybe did
things a little bit different to the traditional
(05:23):
way of doing things, because I just looked
at it completely differently to a lot of
people.
Yeah.
And you've not come from the same cloth,
so you've not had that blueprint internally, where
it works this way, it works this way.
If you tend to come in from a
different perspective and just be more disruptive, and
as you said, challenging, I guess that's a
really important point to make to our listeners
is don't be afraid to touch your gut
(05:44):
feeling.
And if someone's telling you something, or if
you're coming from a different perspective, challenge them
on that, definitely.
You work amongst hundreds of partners and have
done since 2017.
What would you say is the biggest challenge
that they face compared to pre-pandemic or
what's changed over the...
I mean, we've got the markets changed quite
(06:04):
considerably, but for you from the partner's perspective,
what would you say is the biggest challenge
for them at the moment?
I definitely think in terms of depending on
what areas that they're focussing on, be it
AI, be it even dynamics and solutions like
that, is definitely a lack of talent in
the industry, which means that they are getting
outpriced very easily.
(06:25):
I think larger partners or larger companies that
have that budget can spend a little bit
more compared to a smaller business.
So definitely being outpriced, but I definitely think
since COVID, there's been a massive shift in
where people can do their roles.
And I'm a prime example of that.
Even when I was at Micro or even
now at PAX 8, part of the Microsoft
(06:46):
corporate teams of both, I was the only
person located in the UK doing those roles.
Everyone else was in North America.
So being able to do a role with
a lot of North America focus, but do
it from North Wales in my small little
town that has one road, a castle and
a beach, being able to do that.
(07:06):
Exactly.
What more do you need?
I've got everything I need right here, but
the industry has definitely changed.
So I think in terms of those challenges,
it is worth looking even outside of the
UK.
I think it frustrates me the most when
I see companies say, I don't know, let's
say they're located in Manchester or something like
that.
And they want someone that can go to
the office five days a week.
(07:28):
And I question that and say, well, no
wonder you're being outpriced, especially somewhere like that.
It's a big city.
There's a lot of competition.
There's a lot of companies there.
But being able to stretch further afield is
something that would be extremely valuable to any
business, especially whether it's places in the UK
(07:49):
that potentially don't have a higher salary bracket.
If you're in London, it's a high salary
bracket, but you hire someone up north, like
you and I, maybe we're a bit cheaper.
Definitely.
Or even, like I say, outside of the
UK, I think that's where people can get
some strong talent as well.
Definitely.
I would 100% agree with that.
(08:10):
And one other thing about a lot of
the companies I've worked with over the past
seven years, I guess, is they were so
used to having people come in the office.
And I get that companies have invested a
lot in these lovely office spaces, and I
love that they have that.
But don't be afraid to move away from
this old style model.
And yeah, if you hire somebody in London
who is on 70, 80K, but in theory,
(08:32):
you can get somebody who's based in Doncaster
for less money, and they probably could get
into London quicker than someone can get from
one side of London to the other.
So that's also something I think companies need
to be more open-minded.
If you want somebody in the office, don't
be afraid, not the train strikes or whatever,
to look bigger amongst the country.
Because I did some training for AI the
week, and I got home back to Newcastle
(08:54):
from London before the directors got home to
the other part of London because there was
all the delays in London.
And I emailed them, I was like, did
everyone get home safe?
And they were like, you're home already.
I was like, yeah.
And they couldn't fathom that because it was
quicker for me to get basically to Scotland.
So yeah, I definitely agree.
Look to the South Americas.
(09:15):
There's some amazing tech talent from the universities
coming out in Rio.
If you're a Spanish-speaking country, that also
means we can bring in bigger implementations because
you've got that multilingual style.
Yes, an accent is an accent, but at
the end of the day, it doesn't make
a difference.
I think that's really good advice to give
to companies.
Don't be afraid to look to other countries.
(09:35):
Is there anything, advice-wise, that you would
say that they can overcome being outpriced when
they are competing for salaries and stuff?
Because we know ourselves post-pandemic, some of
the bigger partners were charging 150k packages or
even base salaries for someone who only had
five years experience because they had the budgets.
(09:56):
And then your little small to medium business
who has been around for a couple of
years, they can't compete with that.
So what advice would you give those partners?
I think it's, I'd say it's sort of
having less of a strict kind of requirement
for the person taking on that role.
And I think, I mean, I've even got
an example of that where I remember we
were hiring someone, a company I was at,
(10:18):
and in the job description, it said, I
think it was 10 years experience.
And I kind of asked the question, said,
could I do that job?
And the person actually responded, and I didn't
realise I was asked in a way that
sounded like I was interested in the role,
but they kind of said, oh, that role's
kind of beneath where you're at.
And I said, I don't have 10 years
(10:39):
experience.
I don't have half that experience.
So if I can do that role and
it's beneath me, then we don't have to
have someone with 10 years experience.
And also when I look at Microsoft, I
think it's great.
And I look forward to the day that
I can say I've got 20 plus years
experience with this industry and be seen as
(11:00):
even more of a leader in the industry.
But when you look at the Microsoft licencing,
it doesn't look anything like it did two
years ago, let alone 10 years ago.
So sometimes having that fresher knowledge is actually
going to be extremely valuable.
In fact, it's funny, with the requirements from
Microsoft for some of the programmes for people
(11:21):
to attain the fundamentals certifications, the people that
fail those more are the ones that have
been around it longer, because actually they remember
how it was.
So let's say dynamics has changed and buttons
have moved places and they've made it more
productive.
Actually, dynamics looks completely different.
So those people that have been around it
(11:41):
longer are actually more likely to fail those
certs because they remember how it was.
So I think having that balance is ideal.
But yeah, I mean, again, you get someone
in who's a bit more fresher to the
industry, fresh ideas.
They've not got any bad habits in the
industry as well.
All these things can be even more valuable
sometimes than 10 plus years experience.
(12:04):
I definitely agree with that.
And I know that there is a big
movement, especially coming down from Microsoft, from the
distributors like yourself, where it's like, look at
the industry experience, look at the soft skills,
because I say this to my customers all
the time, you can't train personality, but you
can train technology.
So think about, you know, somebody who's driven,
who's more interested, who's innovative, and they might
(12:25):
have the industry experience.
And I know a lot of the partners
are moving towards that mentality, I guess, on
the point of adopting fresh ideas or being
more flexible on the job descriptions.
You mentioned don't put a figure down for
10 years.
Don't be fussy on location.
You know, is there anything else that you
would want to add to that, just to
give them a little more knowledge?
(12:49):
Yeah, I think it's just being very open
-minded, I think, is the way that I
would, you know, for example, I've never, well,
I did one week of a degree course,
and knew that I was not going to
last for three, four years, however long a
degree, don't even know how long a degree
is.
So that's not great.
(13:11):
But, you know, I didn't go to university,
I, at the time, didn't see the need
in me.
I was quite happy in what I was
doing in the fitness industry, and I think
I was going to university to do that.
But again, you know, I see people putting
down these roles where, you know, a degree
is required, and sometimes nothing specific, just a
(13:32):
degree.
And sometimes I have to question why, you
know, do you just want someone who's in
debt?
Like, you know, I can't think of why
is that degree, and you're not even, you
know, I get it if it's, I don't
know, maybe it's a business leadership role, and
they'd like someone to have a business leadership
degree, but sometimes it's not specific.
They just want someone who's been to university.
(13:52):
That doesn't make sense to me when I
think life experience can be even more valuable
sometimes.
Definitely, definitely.
And people, I know that there's a lot
of movement, I think, from people at Pax
8 and various other organisations who they've mentioned
about hiring people from apprenticeship level, and all
of those take about the skills.
(14:13):
I personally did history and political science.
How that interjects to me being an alliance
manager for a training partner and an implementation
partner, I do not understand how that works.
But, you know, so that also shows if
they want a degree, which companies shouldn't, you
know, don't say computer science.
You know, how many people in the finance
(14:33):
industry now work in technology?
Because they will, oh, I love the attention
to detail.
So don't just look at the university graduates,
be open-minded.
Yeah, 100% definitely, I agree with that.
And this is it.
And I feel like I'm in the perfect
role where I am in, and what I
mean by that is in an indirect provider,
because, and I think this stems back from
even being a fitness instructor.
(14:54):
The thing that I used to get out
of being a fitness instructor was I loved
helping people.
And in the role that I'm in now,
I get to help businesses.
And then, and I always say, someone asked
me the other day, how would I describe
my job to like my nana, who knows
nothing about technology?
And I said, I would say I'm a
helper.
I help these businesses here, which helps Pax8,
(15:15):
which helps Microsoft.
I am just the helper in the middle.
And I think those skills of just being
passionate about helping other people, and whether it's,
you know, their goals and getting in shape,
that's helped me along this journey of where
I'm at.
And those skills help me now, even though
they are completely different industries.
Yeah, I suppose that's such a good point.
(15:36):
Look at the value and what somebody values
when you're interviewing them.
What motivates this person?
What do they care about?
Ask them about their own hobbies.
You know, if they just like sitting at
a computer, that's not bad, most likely be
a developer.
If they like to be more active and
challenging, maybe they want to be challenged and
more people facing.
There's quite a lot of, you know, don't
look, be shy away from the shots.
(15:56):
Soft skills, I would definitely say.
Yeah, I agree with everything you've said there.
Earlier, you mentioned about bad habits, you know,
from either consultant developer perspective or just the
partner perspective.
Is there, you know, in terms of any
of the bad habits that you've observed in
the industry, you know, what can partners and
end users do to eliminate these and what
(16:17):
would they be really?
Yeah, that's quite a good question, sorry.
Yeah, no, it's a good question.
I think, you know, I see the bad
habits all the time and I don't see
it as it's anyone's particular fault.
I think Microsoft evolves very quickly.
I think a lot changes very quickly, but
also partners are also working very hard to
(16:39):
keep their customers and, you know, offer more
value to their customers and so on.
So trying to keep up with that, with
the technology, with the programmes from Microsoft, it
can become very, very difficult.
And I think in terms of, you know,
being able to kind of maximise the Microsoft
partnership is definitely something that I think can
bring a lot of value to partners, whether
it's, you know, the marketing consultations and free
(17:03):
go campaigns in a box and even the
technical pre-sales and deployment services.
These kind of resources from Microsoft, I mean,
there's upwards of $400,000 worth of investment
that partners can access as a Microsoft partner.
So they can really tap into a lot
of resources.
And as they start to tap into those
resources, they're going to see how they can
(17:24):
help educate their own people internally and build
up from within their business as well.
So yes, there's a tonne of value in
to the business in accessing those resources, whether
it's, you know, the marketing and so on,
it's going to attract more customers.
You're going to maximise every single customer opportunity,
but actually in really accessing those, you can
help build up your team internally as well
(17:46):
and help build a stronger team.
And then you start to almost keep building
upwards.
So you're not looking to hire people up
here because you've built them up and you're
looking to hire down here more, and then
you can get more entry-level people.
And I guess as well, that'll be a
way to tackle being outbidded by other competition.
(18:06):
And a big point that we always talk
about from the value proposition side and to
really improve staff retention is about training.
So, you know, a lot of companies these
days have a couple of hours set aside
a month where their employees have to stay
up to date with the latest technology, or,
you know, if you want to get this
certification or this course.
So yeah, definitely, I guess that's two points
(18:26):
that is really don't underestimate training and staying
up to date.
We have to, I mean, there's a new
release every 30 seconds.
Who knows what co-pilot's going to be
like soon.
It's changed since last week.
A hundred percent.
And there's nothing more when you are, you
know, maybe it's someone at a lower level
in an organisation, there's nothing worse than every
time a senior role becomes available, an external
(18:46):
is hired because it kind of kills your
expectation in terms of getting that promotion and
earning your way up the ladder when every
time a role, and it's not to say
you're going to go from, I don't know,
working in the call centre to being a
corporate vice president of the company.
But it's if every time these roles become
available, they just go straight external.
(19:07):
You're not, it's not even a case of
being outpriced.
You're just, you're not giving anyone a career
development plan that's realistic.
They'll go somewhere else that even offers that.
So sometimes, you know, money is important to
everyone.
I'm not going to, not going to be
stupid on that one, but I mean, I
I've moved roles for less money, but with
higher progression opportunities.
(19:29):
Um, because that's what motivates me.
Yes.
I need a certain amount of money to
look after my family, but you know, I
want a long-term career that I'm proud
of as well.
And I think if I'm not being given
that, then I would look elsewhere over more
than just money.
And I think, so, you know, being able
to build people up within your organisation and
(19:49):
promote from within people coming in at the
bottom end of the company, we'll also see
that happening.
And other people will talk and tell each
other stories of, Oh, I was doing your
role three years ago.
And they might have a director title or
senior director or VP.
And those things can be extremely valuable to
any business as well.
Yeah, definitely.
I really agree with that.
(20:10):
I think companies that have that internal and
they have not created that glass ceiling, they
are the companies with a strong retention and
their employees feel valued.
Whereas the organisations who like you said, hire
externally, they chuck high salaries, everybody to incentivise
them to say, but then they're like, well,
I'm the amount of times I've spoken to
people and like, I can't leave because I'm
on a ridiculous salary.
You know, the company actually, I have a
(20:31):
credit card that the company actually paid for
my takeaways for my family at the weekend
because they couldn't have that person leave, but
they weren't giving them what the person wanted,
which was a weekend.
Anyway, it was, there's nightmares of like that
across the entire market where companies are valuing
the person, they just see the skill set.
And again, that's another point I think we
could discuss for another several hours.
(20:54):
Promoting within it is really key.
And obviously alongside the training, I guess another
point to make on top of that is
in terms of the mindset shift required for
the partners to stay relevant at the moment
in the changing market, obviously, you know, there's
a couple of years ago, it was all
BC, then it was co-pilot power platform.
(21:16):
We saw that now it's more going into
cyber and more licencing.
So what will, can you discuss the mindset
shift that you think is required at the
moment for these partners to stay up to
date, to stay keen and to stay attractive
to the consumers?
Yeah, I think there's got to be a
shift in the way that partners are going
and selling to their customers.
It can't just be, I'm going to sell
(21:37):
you this product.
You know, there's a lot out there, but
also there's so many more challenges now for
an SMB more than ever before because of
how much technology is on the market.
I mean, the average SMB business uses seven
to 10 different vendors for that technology, which
kind of goes to explain why it's around
78% of SMBs have been hit with
(22:00):
a cyber attack in some way, shape or
form.
There's so many entry points.
So what I'm getting at in a long
and short way is, you know, it's how
partners can really just get to know their
customers and get to know not just the
IT decision maker, but the business decision makers
within their customers to understand, well, what challenges
are they all facing?
You know, an IT decision maker isn't going
(22:21):
to know the challenges that a sales person's
having with the CRM system is a perfect
example.
And being able to have those different conversations
and build those relationships within, you know, especially
an SMB, no customer's got the budget to
buy everything all at once, but being able
to build out an 18 month, two year
pipeline with your existing customers helps you stay
(22:44):
sticky.
You're going to continue to add that value
and you're continuing to help that customer evolve.
Essentially, you're going to help them grow their
business, which puts you in that sphere of
you're a trusted advisor.
You're not just a reseller.
You are their trusted advisor, almost like a
consultant for them.
It's going to really help them.
I think that's how customers can stay sticky.
(23:05):
And we see it all the time.
You know, customers that are buying just one
workload from Microsoft are the least sticky.
They will just jump ship for a little
bit better price.
Whereas if you're adding value services, other solutions
wrapping around that, you're not losing that customer.
You become very difficult to leave in a
(23:27):
good way.
Not that you're kind of locking in your
customers in a good way.
You are adding that value.
And you don't even in this day and
age, you don't even have to, you know,
deliver everything.
You know, I don't want to do a
sales pitch here for Pax8, but you know,
we have professional services that we help partners
with and other indirect providers too.
I want to be fair here.
Other indirect providers have those professional services as
(23:48):
well.
So the BBC, don't worry, Matt.
Yeah.
Jaffa cakes are good, but there are other
brands of cake biscuits that you can have.
But yeah.
So I just think, you know, and just
partnering up with other partners, you know, I
see it all the time at the Dynamics
events.
You see these partners that work together because
one does ERP brilliantly, the other one does
(24:08):
CRM brilliantly.
So when they have opportunities for each other,
they pass them over and they work together.
And I think being able to partner up
and have that partner network, you're going to
be able to offer everything.
And I think that's how partners can really
add a tonne of value.
It's not about being able to deliver everything.
It's about being able to just ask the
questions and understand and take those answers away.
(24:31):
And don't be afraid to really spend time
on nurturing that relationship.
And, you know, rather than jumping to the
next sale call, ask everything.
From our perspective, we started working with the
company, I think it was in February, I
met them at a conference.
We helped them on a couple of recruitment
roles, various places across the UK.
And then they asked us, oh, do you
guys do training?
And we did AI training for them.
(24:51):
And then when recently, when we were conducting
the AI training, we realised that they have
a system, dynamic system that hasn't been correctly
adopted.
Like none of the users are using it,
so they don't know how to.
So now we understand that that's a need
for them.
And we've already got a user adoption programme
that we have.
It's tailored to any world, any company.
It's very flexible.
We can, you know, we can help them.
But if I hadn't spent so much time
(25:12):
with this client, nurturing that relationship, asking those
funnel questions, why is that?
What is the issue?
What is the biggest predicament you're facing right
now that is stopping your company growing?
What does that mean for you?
And really finding out that value has meant
that we've, you know, we've done that we've
helped them considerably.
And also means hopefully at the end of
the year, that dynamic system I've spent an
(25:34):
absolute fortune with isn't going to go down
the drain.
And this is it.
I mean, you know, like security is the,
is one of the big things.
I know co-pilot and AI, but security
is the big hot topic from Microsoft.
And the funny thing is, you know, again,
I always end up using a dynamics example,
but you can slap on different security solutions
and so on.
(25:54):
But if that business, and you don't ask
the question, but they are actually, you know,
every sales person has their own Excel spreadsheet
that they're using as a CRM system that
they also share with their own personal one
drive.
So they can do a little bit of
work from home, like those things.
It's, you can do all the security you
want.
They could be emailing that to the wrong
person, if it's an Excel or anything like
(26:16):
that.
So, you know, again, it's, it's those data
silos.
It's those kinds of things.
So, but you're never going to uncover that
unless you speak to the sales team and
you speak to those leaders in the business.
So yeah, I think with partners, the big
thing that I think is a, the big
bet for not just FY25, but the future
is you have to get to know your
(26:37):
customers.
You have to, you know, be able to
offer those solutions right across the board from
Microsoft.
And, you know, that's going to be how
you're going to add real value, stay sticky
to your customers, and also attracting a lot
of net new as well.
And I think even understanding what industries the
customers are in, every industry has different challenges,
different line of business solutions that they potentially
(27:00):
require.
But again, you're not going to know that
unless you speak to them and understand what,
what do you do actually?
You know, what do you do?
It's a very simple question, but so many
partners don't ask.
They just, oh, you want 20 seats of
business premium.
Great.
I can do that for you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I guess once they feel more valued,
(27:21):
the customer, they'll continue to come back to
you and you'll probably get better job satisfaction
because you actually know you're making a difference.
And people like ourselves who are people, people,
they care about people, you know, they want
to support everybody.
They're the ones who are the best at
this role because they do actually genuinely care.
So don't be afraid to take five minutes
extra with a customer to ask those questions,
(27:42):
to find out a little bit about them.
A hundred percent agreed with that one as
well.
I guess we've kind of run through the
SMB, the cyber attack point and everything like
that.
Is there anything else that you would want
to add to that as, because it is
such a big topic for Microsoft at the
moment?
Yeah, I think, you know, especially in SMB,
you often hear the, we're too small comment
(28:05):
around SMBs and being too small for a
cyber attack.
And I think it's because when you look
at the news, it's, you know, in the
UK, you had JD sports, that's massive company
date, you know, millions of customers and, you
know, data being breached and so on.
When you're small, you're just too small to
be reported on because maybe it's a business
(28:25):
nobody's heard of, or, you know, not many
people have heard of or anything like that.
Whereas when it's JD sports, when it's the
NHS, when it's huge organisations or the government,
it's going to be a big news headline
and something that people will go and click
on.
It's just clickbait articles at the end of
the day when you've got a massive company.
So yeah, I mean, just because you're a
(28:46):
small business, even a one man band, it
doesn't matter, you know, you can still be
targeted.
And it's still very costly for a data
breach of client information, even to an SMB.
So just by spending a little bit more
to have the right solutions can save you
a lot in the long run, I think
is the big thing.
(29:07):
It's the same with, you know, you buy
clothes, you buy cheap, you buy twice, to
which I have learned recently needing to go
out and buy more new socks for when
I go on holiday tomorrow, because all my
socks had holes in because I bought cheap.
So I was told off and I bought
better socks.
It's the same with technology.
Well, I actually always buy men's socks now
(29:28):
because they're thicker than women's socks and women's
socks you can honestly, they've gone in about
six months.
So I always nick my boyfriend's socks.
So I do agree.
It's not like it's even cheaper.
It's just that the quality is better for
the men's stuff as well.
That's an issue in itself.
We won't discuss that today.
But is there anything else you think that
is really important for our listeners in terms
(29:50):
of hiring advice or anything that is important
you think that you should you want to
mention from your perspective?
Yeah, I think honestly, I think sometimes
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