March 7, 2025 • 39 mins
In this episode of The 365 Pod, we are thrilled to feature Milan Milincevic, a highly respected figure in the Dynamics space. Milan's journey is truly inspiring, starting as a .NET developer in college and eventually finding his passion in Dynamics NAV.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:06):
Hey everyone, welcome to the 365 POD.
Today's guest is Milan, I'm very excited to
have you on, thank you so much for
coming on the podcast.
Obviously we've known each other for a couple
of years now, you are very well respected
in the ecosystem as a dynamics developer and
then over time you've not just been accredited
but obviously you're now an MVP which is
(00:27):
amazing to see.
So we wanted to have you on the
podcast to speak to the audience about that
specific journey and hopefully offer some inspiration of
people who are not from the standard background,
they're from different countries, you know, a lot
of the MVPs tend to come from the
States, so it's great to see a couple
more Europeans on that band of MVPs.
So yeah, thank you so much for being
on the podcast Milan, how are you doing?
(00:48):
Yeah good, thanks and how you imagine, first
of all yeah I would like to thank
you so much for having me today, I
really appreciate the opportunity and this is actually
my first time on a podcast so I'm
both excited and a bit of nervous as
well, so but I'm definitely looking forward to
(01:10):
the conversation.
Yeah well you'll definitely smash it but hopefully
we don't put you off doing more podcasts
in the future, hopefully it's an enjoyable experience.
But yeah I mean obviously you've spoken at
so many conferences so I imagine speaking in
a room full of people is a bit
more terrifying than this but who knows, we
have some feedback at the end.
It is definitely, it is, I mean at
(01:31):
least when I started it was quite horrifying
to be fair with me, I was so
nervous but now since you are doing it
more and more and more it just gets
more natural and now it is completely fine.
But yeah I hope it will be better
with podcast, it will not be the same
as starting.
Yeah fingers crossed, we'll have to give each
(01:52):
of us some feedback and then I mean
one of the reasons I wanted to get
you on a podcast is because what I
think is great is where you've, you know,
where you've come from, what you've done with
your career, obviously developer is a typically kind
of persona or personality that would be seen
on stage so I just really think that
that's amazing for you to kind of break
that stereotype.
(02:14):
But tell the viewers and the listeners a
little bit about yourself and how I guess
we first met if you want to start
with that.
Yeah of course I can start with that.
So yeah as we already said my name
is Milan and I come from Croatia originally,
so from a town called Osijek.
(02:35):
It is a bit on the countryside in
Croatia so it is not unfortunately on the
coast and I started my career there.
I went to a university there and I
started my career as a web developer actually
as a .NET engineer and then one thing
led to another, we moved to another city
and then I started looking for a new
(02:57):
job and I started working with Navision which
was like predecessor of Business Central and then
I just actually fell in love with it
for the first time.
I don't know why but I started liking
it and I started working more and more
with it and then one thing led to
another and then the last I think it
(03:19):
was one year, one and a half year
ago I actually met Imogen when I was
looking for a new job.
Imogen was actually the one who helped me
move to Norway where I am actually now.
So yeah I mean we work, me and
(03:41):
my wife we work in Croatia and we
decided as a next step that we would
like to move somewhere from Croatia and it
was actually a perfect timing, perfect moment for
that and all things like kind of get
settled and we started looking where we can
go and then I saw this ad for
that Imogen posted and then we met, we
(04:04):
stayed in touch after that as well and
we still meet at these conferences.
We always do, don't we?
The last conference obviously was directions, I was
on the bumper cars, I turned around and
I smashed into you and I was like
what's going on?
So actually it's a very small space, the
BC space, but I think that's one of
the great things about this community as well
(04:24):
as obviously the wider Microsoft community is that
you can get these amazing opportunities.
I know that you said that you don't
necessarily know why you loved Nav back then
but do you know why you loved BC
or you know why you love this community
now you're so heavily involved in it?
Yeah so you know as we talk about
(04:45):
these stereotypes of developers I mean I also
find myself that I don't see myself a
lot of in this territory because I also
see developers to be like a bit introvert
and then I'm kind of to be more
open, more social guy and that helped me
(05:08):
actually enroling in community but we can talk
about that a bit later.
How I started liking Business Central, it was
just because with .NET and web application it
was just more pure technical and it was
just but when we're working with ERP systems
like Business Central you also need to know
(05:30):
a bit of business processes itself and that
was the thing that always that I always
found interesting.
So since my college days I was I
like this part of the that area that
part of the business as well and then
this BC actually gave me opportunity and then
(05:51):
when you work on these different projects you
will learn more and more different business processes
and the one project maybe you will work
on.
Every industry is different which is half the
battle isn't it right?
Yeah.
Every industry is so different it's madness.
That is true and then I just felt
that this is the thing that I want
(06:15):
to spend my time that I want to
work on but to be fair you know
when you tell people what you are working
on and when you tell them it is
some ERP system they usually think it is
boring and I don't know for me it
is fun but probably maybe even for you
this is not the best of fun.
(06:35):
But yeah I mean working on it
it's filled me pressure and we have this
great community which I always admire and I
always have this passion to just keep learning
(06:57):
new stuff and just keep growing and I
think this is the best way then I
just started learning from additional people who are
active in community.
I thought after that maybe I could also
offer something as a bank to give something
back to those to that community and then
I also enrol actually myself there and I
(07:18):
started being more and more active.
Yeah yeah excellent because I think obviously you
were very well involved in the Croatian side
of things I remember when we were speaking
when we first started working together you're like
oh I speak at conferences I really enjoy
that and everything I now have followed your
lead so I've spoken at a few conferences
now I think we both spoke at Dynamics
(07:38):
Minds last year as well I've got one
this year as well so I'm excited about
that so hopefully we'll see you there get
to see you in person Dynamics Minds but
I think do you believe that the move
from Croatia to Norway you know one what
motivated you to to move there as well
do you think it was for the more
opportunities was it for the cold weather was
(08:01):
it for the skiing what for you was
was it a career choice do you think?
To be fair what I like most was
the offer and opportunity that that I got
but to be fair you know five years
ago my wife started learning the region we
(08:22):
were still in Zagreb in Croatia and I
thought I tell her why are you learning
this we will never need this language I
don't I mean I don't see any value
in it and because I always thought if
we move somewhere this will be probably some
other country in Europe maybe Switzerland Germany Belgium
I don't know Netherlands I didn't think as
much about Norway and then when we started
(08:45):
looking for a job we just explored our
options we didn't we didn't have one country
in mind where we actually just want to
go but we were just looking more about
opportunities also like that country is good to
live in that work-life balance yeah safety
(09:07):
and all of that and then all of
a sudden you will come up with that
job opportunity and I thought this could be
interesting and now you know we live here
in Norway for a year my wife is
fluent now in the region and she's using
it every day yeah but I still can't
yeah it is but you know I only
(09:29):
know maybe 20 words you know I didn't
learn a lot so yeah that is the
problem but I mean it's not a problem
actually but the thing is that we are
working official language in the team is English
and I don't feel so obligated to so
stressed to learn it so fast and then
I'm just spending my time on other things
(09:51):
yeah yeah on the work side of things
technology because there's always a new tech these
days isn't there every every three weeks let's
say there's a new release or something which
is great and it means that someone like
yourself can always be on your toes but
it is almost as if that your wife
manifested this career opportunity for your birth isn't
it she kind of she just was like
(10:11):
okay that's what I'm gonna learn and then
five years later you're living there which is
I think that's really exciting yeah I was
so naive you know she probably had some
plan for it I started learning German you
know and I learned German for two years
and now I don't need it well maybe
me and her were actually in cahoots you
know I mean she made me put the
(10:31):
advert out there yeah you know I should
I should see it but no that that's
that's fine yeah it's fab and do you
think the move has allowed you to get
more involved in the community because at the
time when we first started working together you
weren't MVP title yet so do you think
that moving to Norway amplified you or in
(10:53):
any way or how did you I guess
initially get involved in the community so I
mean at the time before we moved there
I was still at the moment I was
already active a lot in Europe in like
in different conferences in the like international community
a lot but but now when we moved
(11:18):
here I'm trying to start to be more
active here as well so there are a
few of these local Norwegian conferences so that
they're also I try to meet as much
as new people as I could just to
get familiar how they are working here and
and maybe in the future I try to
(11:39):
I will try to enrol a bit more
also maybe because in Croatia together with two
friends of mine we organise these monthly meetups
actually and we have these like user groups
and then someone from community every month every
month have a session and then we have
a joint gathering networking after the session and
(12:01):
we started it like last year 13-14
months ago and we like I think that
Croatia is a small country and it is
not a big community there but still every
month we gather around 40-50 people for
these meetups yeah that's a good turnout definitely
(12:22):
this is really nice and then I think
that over the years maybe I will try
to if time allows me an opportunity I
would like to start something similar here in
Norway as well because I think it is
actually nice to network to share experience to
share knowledge and then you always can learn
new things from others so yeah yeah yeah
(12:46):
are you involved with the IMCP in Norway
I know that they've got a chapter there
sorry I didn't say it's called the IMCP
it's the International Association of Microsoft Partners and
it's a it's a it's a partner network
I know that there's a chapter in Norway
so definitely if you haven't I could I
could make an introduction to the chapter head
(13:08):
because that could be a really good way
for you to to speak to more it's
not necessarily competition for BDO but it's it's
something to really I think you'd really enjoy
that definitely definitely yeah just I would like
for you to to connect me with with
them I didn't talk with them so I
don't know anything about it so I'm curious
(13:31):
to see yeah I'll send you the details
don't worry I've got your back yeah it's
really it's really cool IMCP it's it's kind
of like a partner to partner network and
there's it's very successful there's a global the
global branch out there and I've been to
a couple of the UK ones this is
a big German chapter and I know that
they're attempting to create one in Norway obviously
that will be in Oslo as well because
(13:52):
majority of where the tech companies are so
that's good for you but yeah I mean
I guess speaking of the community obviously you're
keen you've committed hopefully there was something that
we also reflect the success you had in
Croatia perhaps in Norway what do you think
motivates you you've talked about how you learn
from other people you want to give back
(14:13):
to those people is there anything else that
you think is why you speak at these
conferences or do you just love it yeah
I mean speaking conferences is one thing what
I also try to do is write some
blog posts also to be active in some
of these online activities or some social networks
(14:38):
as well and and then to try to
help other people because you know when I
when I started and there was not there
was not much opportunities to learn all of
these things and then having all of these
MVPs sharing knowledge and some other people who
are not MVPs but are very active in
community sharing their knowledge it actually helped me
(14:59):
a lot and then that was actually the
main thing that I wanted to achieve as
well so for example I really enjoy I
got from time to time people since reach
out to me asking for some question that
they saw maybe some blog post or YouTube
video or something and I say okay we
have this and this issue can you maybe
advise us and for me this is nice
(15:21):
for sure so yeah yes giving back yeah
giving back something I think that this is
really nice and I think and as I
said I think that uh the thing that
drives me the most is actually this continual
continuous of learning because if you don't learn
a new things every day will just be
(15:44):
easily replaced over time I think and we
were just stuck somewhere in the past and
I think that this way is also a
good opportunity to not only to share things
but also to learn new things because there
is still a lot of things that that
I don't know I mean no no I
mean no one knows everything so I really
(16:06):
enjoy it yeah yeah fantastic and I guess
if somebody was to ask you for a
bit of advice of how they could follow
in your tracks or obviously you were doing
the user groups is there anything else that
you would recommend to people who want to
give back to the community for what they
can do yeah you know I would say
(16:28):
that they should just start enroling somehow either
they if they can have someone like close
to them who is already active in community
or either just if they don't know they
should I mean try to reach maybe to
someone if they need help with it but
the simplest thing is just to start with
(16:51):
anything writing some posts writing some comments somewhere
replying to other people posts or trying to
submit some sessions or trying to speak at
these user groups as well because we have
it in Croatia but also I think that
in all other countries you have similar things
and these are actually a good training before
(17:13):
because there is less people on those user
groups and you have this friendly atmosphere all
the time and it is quite it is
a bit easier to speak there than maybe
in conference in front of 1500 or whatever
people that you don't know so yeah definitely
I think that this is the way to
go and then I mean I got recognised
(17:36):
with this MVP like last year in September
but to be fair that was never my
motivation I didn't do that to become MVP
this was just a recognition that I'm doing
something okay I hope so something good I
hope but I didn't go toward that that
(17:57):
I put this as a goal I mean
my goal is just to have fun while
doing that and just as I said I
try to be to meet a lot of
new people as well and to talk with
new people to see how they are working
to to see in some other not companies
only but other countries how there is what
(18:19):
is their culture how they are taking some
problems and stuff so I think that this
is actually the main goal because I think
that if people if people have this goal
just to become MVP I think they are
doing this from a wrong reasons I would
say but this is just my opinion maybe
(18:39):
I'm not saying that I'm right or not
but this is how I look no no
I do understand definitely what you're saying then
I've been at kind of sessions at various
conferences where they've been like speak with an
MVP and a lot of people just put
their hand up being like how do I
become an MVP so I think that you
doing it as in this is a nice
pat on the back it's a nice you
know recognition of what I've been achieving but
I'm here because I want to help the
(19:00):
community I want to get involved you don't
just do it for the title so I
really really love that I think that's a
really commendable thing I'm definitely you know the
listeners should take away if that you are
doing it if you want to be an
MVP stop just do it and then because
you want to put something better and make
the community a better place because you are
always learning would you say in terms of
(19:21):
the tools to reach out is it predominantly
LinkedIn or are there like websites or their
blogs are there like on Reddit is there
anything there that you think that there's an
underground community it was a Twitter and next
but now a lot of people move to
LinkedIn so I would say that LinkedIn is
that now the the main one also having
(19:42):
a own blog post this is also really
great but for example if for a technical
people for developers Microsoft like kind of open
source make open these codes the code for
business et al like this base app and
(20:02):
other apps just to not go to too
much detail to you but and then people
easily can make a changes there as well
so if then you see some bug you
can you can easily come and contribute by
yourself and you don't need to open a
ticket for Microsoft and to wait I don't
know a month or two it doesn't matter
because they have some probably better ways to
(20:24):
spend their time you can just come easily
and fix those things by yourself so I
think this is also really great and a
really really nice project because a lot of
this started like a year ago or a
year and a half or something like that
and a lot of people from community get
started being active there so I think this
is really nice yeah yeah definitely and I
(20:49):
think that's really nice obviously there is that
sense of community sometimes the tickets with Microsoft
can take a little bit longer than I
expected purely probably just because of the demand
with that saying as well I mean one
of the things I think it's really important
to address is as a developer what do
you see by heart by nature what are
you believing at the minute in terms of
(21:10):
the impacts of AI on coding what's your
initial thoughts on this and this isn't a
right or wrong answer it's just really gauge
your perspective yeah to be fair I'm I
think that this is a really I mean
everyone saw that they see that this is
(21:30):
a really next big thing coming around and
it is already there and I think that
I talked with a friend of mine and
he said something really good that we shouldn't
wait for this to be perfect because if
we just wait for this to be perfect
(21:50):
we will be we will fall behind we
will be far far behind others so I
think that we just started immediately if we
already didn't using it as much as possible
I mean we need to remain positive about
it and of course there are it is
not perfect yet but over time it will
be better and better and there is no
(22:11):
doubt that this is the future and this
will change a lot in the coming period
so if I can advise somehow I would
say that just try to start using it
and try to see how you can use
it the best you can I mean there
is already I think a lot of not
(22:31):
only blog posts but people already talk a
lot about it so I think that I
don't know I think that people had some
issues some companies maybe had some issues to
see the real value in currently and maybe
they are missing some use cases currently but
I think that this should change by now
(22:52):
and I hope that a lot of companies
is already using it.
Yeah yeah I think that what we see
when we are conducting say co-pilot training
with end users and partners alike is that
there's a there's a there's half the group
who are like keen but absolutely terrified because
they have no idea what AI is so
half of our training course is about mindset
(23:14):
and it's what it is and what it
isn't and we really express the limitations because
I think that's the most important thing and
then half the room is like well this
guy the other day was like well the
graduates are using it and they're using this
and it's all rubbish and then we're trying
to educate them like what you put in
is what you get out and how you
speak to AI and everything and obviously security
is like a big big thing um yeah
(23:37):
I've been with all these companies oh yeah
we're using charge UBT and I'm like stop
like please stop stop using because they're putting
like vital company IP into that database I'm
like no no please stop so we are
pushing people to you know try and focus
on co-pilot for the tenant but yeah
I think it's the boat's left the port
I guess could be the metaphor to use
(23:58):
so you need to be on it otherwise
because it's going to be happening and the
um I think it was the founder of
Google said that the impact of AI will
have a couple of weeks ago he said
that the impact of AI will have as
much as an implication as the discovery of
electricity on the human race which is kind
well maybe that's a bit extreme but who
knows where it's going to go because obviously
(24:19):
we're only on machine learning and LLMs at
the minute so who knows what the next
step is everybody's terrified definitely I think that
we are not we are I think that
a lot most of the people are not
even aware how big how much things will
change in the future I mean we we
(24:41):
don't know yet I don't know I also
for me it's also sometimes hard to imagine
um what will happen in the next five
years six ten years I mean this is
uh who knows maybe we will all um
yeah I don't know we'll all stop coding
and there will be a AI doing all
(25:02):
the things and maybe we'll just I mean
I think that all of most of the
roles will just change and they will evolve
into something definitely that would be fun to
see yeah because what we do now our
jobs didn't really exist like 10 20 like
the role of a recruiter obviously that was
my that's my background that wasn't a thing
(25:23):
when my family were growing up like that
that role didn't exist so I think as
with anything as the times change the opportunity
is going to change so people shouldn't be
scared of AI they should definitely embrace it
I mean because obviously your area of expertise
is more BC so what are you your
what your current thoughts on what Microsoft is
releasing with it with Copilot and Business Central
(25:43):
or AI tools within BC yeah so Microsoft
started um releasing some smaller features in BC
before but now we are getting a few
bigger ones with the agents and there is
this sales order and there are some new
(26:06):
coming up soon and I was part because
one of the good things having uh being
an MVP is then you you you are
often can see this in private previews or
before they are in public and then you
know you see what product team is working
on and for sure I think in the
next couple of months next half a year
or now soon that there will be a
(26:27):
lot of great uh improvement yeah a lot
of cool new features and I'm looking to
see how the customers will adopt this I
think it offers a lot but uh currently
what what I can see from my perspective
for example and I'm also leading a small
team of developers here and what we do
(26:48):
is uh all of us are using like
github copilot and trying to there is this
a new new model yeah and then chatting
uh I mean just in the code it
is getting better as well also of course
then for email coaching summarising translations I don't
know uh copilot for teams in some customer
(27:11):
meetings we are also using it and um
yeah I mean creating some custom of some
of our team members also created some custom
copilot agents where they use this some kind
of uh documents so it can help them
on answering there as well uh but I
(27:32):
think that uh one of the biggest thing
because we also here at BTO have this
AI centre of excellence team which is helping
additional another companies of um enroling with AI
and there are a few things first I
think that uh the big the biggest thing
(27:53):
and one huge part of this AI creation
is compliance and legal stuff as you already
said and people are not also aware of
that and they are not compliant so a
huge part is just make I mean this
is not a fun part but you need
to set the things to be right but
another thing is also at least in Norway
(28:14):
customers currently have a lot of issues not
issues I would say but their data is
not properly structured or not taught correctly and
then it is not just a Norwegian thing
I think that's every company across the globe
we're finding as well it's actually when it
shows you the data is crucial isn't it
if people don't have that CRM system or
(28:35):
anything in place then it is yeah the
emails is just a whole storage system for
so many companies it's mental yeah yeah it
is so I think there will be some
definitely some rise I think in data analytics
and preparing the data to use it properly
(28:55):
and to have it but now yeah I
think that what we also trying to do
with this AI I mean here in video
and companies that they are offering these courses
to managers and to decide decision makers in
(29:16):
other companies so basically just important people in
another companies can be familiar with the AI
and then they will be easily they can
make easier make some decisions actually because if
they don't know anything and there is a
lot of I think I would say that
there is a lot of companies who couldn't
start it yet and they are not so
(29:38):
familiar with it and I think it is
important for them just to know the how
the things are and the facts so they
can maybe better make some decisions I would
say yeah definitely I agree with that so
the way that we proposition it for our
because our focus within is just within Copilot
M365 now because we're seeing
Hey everyone, welcome to the 365 POD.
Today's guest is Milan, I'm very excited to
have you on, thank you so much for
coming on the podcast.
Obviously we've known each other for a couple
of years now, you are very well respected
in the ecosystem as a dynamics developer and
then over time you've not just been accredited
but obviously you're now an MVP which is
(00:27):
amazing to see.
So we wanted to have you on the
podcast to speak to the audience about that
specific journey and hopefully offer some inspiration of
people who are not from the standard background,
they're from different countries, you know, a lot
of the MVPs tend to come from the
States, so it's great to see a couple
more Europeans on that band of MVPs.
So yeah, thank you so much for being
on the podcast Milan, how are you doing?
(00:48):
Yeah good, thanks and how you imagine, first
of all yeah I would like to thank
you so much for having me today, I
really appreciate the opportunity and this is actually
my first time on a podcast so I'm
both excited and a bit of nervous as
well, so but I'm definitely looking forward to
(01:10):
the conversation.
Yeah well you'll definitely smash it but hopefully
we don't put you off doing more podcasts
in the future, hopefully it's an enjoyable experience.
But yeah I mean obviously you've spoken at
so many conferences so I imagine speaking in
a room full of people is a bit
more terrifying than this but who knows, we
have some feedback at the end.
It is definitely, it is, I mean at
(01:31):
least when I started it was quite horrifying
to be fair with me, I was so
nervous but now since you are doing it
more and more and more it just gets
more natural and now it is completely fine.
But yeah I hope it will be better
with podcast, it will not be the same
as starting.
Yeah fingers crossed, we'll have to give each
(01:52):
of us some feedback and then I mean
one of the reasons I wanted to get
you on a podcast is because what I
think is great is where you've, you know,
where you've come from, what you've done with
your career, obviously developer is a typically kind
of persona or personality that would be seen
on stage so I just really think that
that's amazing for you to kind of break
that stereotype.
(02:14):
But tell the viewers and the listeners a
little bit about yourself and how I guess
we first met if you want to start
with that.
Yeah of course I can start with that.
So yeah as we already said my name
is Milan and I come from Croatia originally,
so from a town called Osijek.
(02:35):
It is a bit on the countryside in
Croatia so it is not unfortunately on the
coast and I started my career there.
I went to a university there and I
started my career as a web developer actually
as a .NET engineer and then one thing
led to another, we moved to another city
and then I started looking for a new
(02:57):
job and I started working with Navision which
was like predecessor of Business Central and then
I just actually fell in love with it
for the first time.
I don't know why but I started liking
it and I started working more and more
with it and then one thing led to
another and then the last I think it
(03:19):
was one year, one and a half year
ago I actually met Imogen when I was
looking for a new job.
Imogen was actually the one who helped me
move to Norway where I am actually now.
So yeah I mean we work, me and
(03:41):
my wife we work in Croatia and we
decided as a next step that we would
like to move somewhere from Croatia and it
was actually a perfect timing, perfect moment for
that and all things like kind of get
settled and we started looking where we can
go and then I saw this ad for
that Imogen posted and then we met, we
(04:04):
stayed in touch after that as well and
we still meet at these conferences.
We always do, don't we?
The last conference obviously was directions, I was
on the bumper cars, I turned around and
I smashed into you and I was like
what's going on?
So actually it's a very small space, the
BC space, but I think that's one of
the great things about this community as well
(04:24):
as obviously the wider Microsoft community is that
you can get these amazing opportunities.
I know that you said that you don't
necessarily know why you loved Nav back then
but do you know why you loved BC
or you know why you love this community
now you're so heavily involved in it?
Yeah so you know as we talk about
(04:45):
these stereotypes of developers I mean I also
find myself that I don't see myself a
lot of in this territory because I also
see developers to be like a bit introvert
and then I'm kind of to be more
open, more social guy and that helped me
(05:08):
actually enroling in community but we can talk
about that a bit later.
How I started liking Business Central, it was
just because with .NET and web application it
was just more pure technical and it was
just but when we're working with ERP systems
like Business Central you also need to know
(05:30):
a bit of business processes itself and that
was the thing that always that I always
found interesting.
So since my college days I was I
like this part of the that area that
part of the business as well and then
this BC actually gave me opportunity and then
(05:51):
when you work on these different projects you
will learn more and more different business processes
and the one project maybe you will work
on.
Every industry is different which is half the
battle isn't it right?
Yeah.
Every industry is so different it's madness.
That is true and then I just felt
that this is the thing that I want
(06:15):
to spend my time that I want to
work on but to be fair you know
when you tell people what you are working
on and when you tell them it is
some ERP system they usually think it is
boring and I don't know for me it
is fun but probably maybe even for you
this is not the best of fun.
(06:35):
But yeah I mean working on it
it's filled me pressure and we have this
great community which I always admire and I
always have this passion to just keep learning
(06:57):
new stuff and just keep growing and I
think this is the best way then I
just started learning from additional people who are
active in community.
I thought after that maybe I could also
offer something as a bank to give something
back to those to that community and then
I also enrol actually myself there and I
(07:18):
started being more and more active.
Yeah yeah excellent because I think obviously you
were very well involved in the Croatian side
of things I remember when we were speaking
when we first started working together you're like
oh I speak at conferences I really enjoy
that and everything I now have followed your
lead so I've spoken at a few conferences
now I think we both spoke at Dynamics
(07:38):
Minds last year as well I've got one
this year as well so I'm excited about
that so hopefully we'll see you there get
to see you in person Dynamics Minds but
I think do you believe that the move
from Croatia to Norway you know one what
motivated you to to move there as well
do you think it was for the more
opportunities was it for the cold weather was
(08:01):
it for the skiing what for you was
was it a career choice do you think?
To be fair what I like most was
the offer and opportunity that that I got
but to be fair you know five years
ago my wife started learning the region we
(08:22):
were still in Zagreb in Croatia and I
thought I tell her why are you learning
this we will never need this language I
don't I mean I don't see any value
in it and because I always thought if
we move somewhere this will be probably some
other country in Europe maybe Switzerland Germany Belgium
I don't know Netherlands I didn't think as
much about Norway and then when we started
(08:45):
looking for a job we just explored our
options we didn't we didn't have one country
in mind where we actually just want to
go but we were just looking more about
opportunities also like that country is good to
live in that work-life balance yeah safety
(09:07):
and all of that and then all of
a sudden you will come up with that
job opportunity and I thought this could be
interesting and now you know we live here
in Norway for a year my wife is
fluent now in the region and she's using
it every day yeah but I still can't
yeah it is but you know I only
(09:29):
know maybe 20 words you know I didn't
learn a lot so yeah that is the
problem but I mean it's not a problem
actually but the thing is that we are
working official language in the team is English
and I don't feel so obligated to so
stressed to learn it so fast and then
I'm just spending my time on other things
(09:51):
yeah yeah on the work side of things
technology because there's always a new tech these
days isn't there every every three weeks let's
say there's a new release or something which
is great and it means that someone like
yourself can always be on your toes but
it is almost as if that your wife
manifested this career opportunity for your birth isn't
it she kind of she just was like
(10:11):
okay that's what I'm gonna learn and then
five years later you're living there which is
I think that's really exciting yeah I was
so naive you know she probably had some
plan for it I started learning German you
know and I learned German for two years
and now I don't need it well maybe
me and her were actually in cahoots you
know I mean she made me put the
(10:31):
advert out there yeah you know I should
I should see it but no that that's
that's fine yeah it's fab and do you
think the move has allowed you to get
more involved in the community because at the
time when we first started working together you
weren't MVP title yet so do you think
that moving to Norway amplified you or in
(10:53):
any way or how did you I guess
initially get involved in the community so I
mean at the time before we moved there
I was still at the moment I was
already active a lot in Europe in like
in different conferences in the like international community
a lot but but now when we moved
(11:18):
here I'm trying to start to be more
active here as well so there are a
few of these local Norwegian conferences so that
they're also I try to meet as much
as new people as I could just to
get familiar how they are working here and
and maybe in the future I try to
(11:39):
I will try to enrol a bit more
also maybe because in Croatia together with two
friends of mine we organise these monthly meetups
actually and we have these like user groups
and then someone from community every month every
month have a session and then we have
a joint gathering networking after the session and
(12:01):
we started it like last year 13-14
months ago and we like I think that
Croatia is a small country and it is
not a big community there but still every
month we gather around 40-50 people for
these meetups yeah that's a good turnout definitely
(12:22):
this is really nice and then I think
that over the years maybe I will try
to if time allows me an opportunity I
would like to start something similar here in
Norway as well because I think it is
actually nice to network to share experience to
share knowledge and then you always can learn
new things from others so yeah yeah yeah
(12:46):
are you involved with the IMCP in Norway
I know that they've got a chapter there
sorry I didn't say it's called the IMCP
it's the International Association of Microsoft Partners and
it's a it's a it's a partner network
I know that there's a chapter in Norway
so definitely if you haven't I could I
could make an introduction to the chapter head
(13:08):
because that could be a really good way
for you to to speak to more it's
not necessarily competition for BDO but it's it's
something to really I think you'd really enjoy
that definitely definitely yeah just I would like
for you to to connect me with with
them I didn't talk with them so I
don't know anything about it so I'm curious
(13:31):
to see yeah I'll send you the details
don't worry I've got your back yeah it's
really it's really cool IMCP it's it's kind
of like a partner to partner network and
there's it's very successful there's a global the
global branch out there and I've been to
a couple of the UK ones this is
a big German chapter and I know that
they're attempting to create one in Norway obviously
that will be in Oslo as well because
(13:52):
majority of where the tech companies are so
that's good for you but yeah I mean
I guess speaking of the community obviously you're
keen you've committed hopefully there was something that
we also reflect the success you had in
Croatia perhaps in Norway what do you think
motivates you you've talked about how you learn
from other people you want to give back
(14:13):
to those people is there anything else that
you think is why you speak at these
conferences or do you just love it yeah
I mean speaking conferences is one thing what
I also try to do is write some
blog posts also to be active in some
of these online activities or some social networks
(14:38):
as well and and then to try to
help other people because you know when I
when I started and there was not there
was not much opportunities to learn all of
these things and then having all of these
MVPs sharing knowledge and some other people who
are not MVPs but are very active in
community sharing their knowledge it actually helped me
(14:59):
a lot and then that was actually the
main thing that I wanted to achieve as
well so for example I really enjoy I
got from time to time people since reach
out to me asking for some question that
they saw maybe some blog post or YouTube
video or something and I say okay we
have this and this issue can you maybe
advise us and for me this is nice
(15:21):
for sure so yeah yes giving back yeah
giving back something I think that this is
really nice and I think and as I
said I think that uh the thing that
drives me the most is actually this continual
continuous of learning because if you don't learn
a new things every day will just be
(15:44):
easily replaced over time I think and we
were just stuck somewhere in the past and
I think that this way is also a
good opportunity to not only to share things
but also to learn new things because there
is still a lot of things that that
I don't know I mean no no I
mean no one knows everything so I really
(16:06):
enjoy it yeah yeah fantastic and I guess
if somebody was to ask you for a
bit of advice of how they could follow
in your tracks or obviously you were doing
the user groups is there anything else that
you would recommend to people who want to
give back to the community for what they
can do yeah you know I would say
(16:28):
that they should just start enroling somehow either
they if they can have someone like close
to them who is already active in community
or either just if they don't know they
should I mean try to reach maybe to
someone if they need help with it but
the simplest thing is just to start with
(16:51):
anything writing some posts writing some comments somewhere
replying to other people posts or trying to
submit some sessions or trying to speak at
these user groups as well because we have
it in Croatia but also I think that
in all other countries you have similar things
and these are actually a good training before
(17:13):
because there is less people on those user
groups and you have this friendly atmosphere all
the time and it is quite it is
a bit easier to speak there than maybe
in conference in front of 1500 or whatever
people that you don't know so yeah definitely
I think that this is the way to
go and then I mean I got recognised
(17:36):
with this MVP like last year in September
but to be fair that was never my
motivation I didn't do that to become MVP
this was just a recognition that I'm doing
something okay I hope so something good I
hope but I didn't go toward that that
(17:57):
I put this as a goal I mean
my goal is just to have fun while
doing that and just as I said I
try to be to meet a lot of
new people as well and to talk with
new people to see how they are working
to to see in some other not companies
only but other countries how there is what
(18:19):
is their culture how they are taking some
problems and stuff so I think that this
is actually the main goal because I think
that if people if people have this goal
just to become MVP I think they are
doing this from a wrong reasons I would
say but this is just my opinion maybe
(18:39):
I'm not saying that I'm right or not
but this is how I look no no
I do understand definitely what you're saying then
I've been at kind of sessions at various
conferences where they've been like speak with an
MVP and a lot of people just put
their hand up being like how do I
become an MVP so I think that you
doing it as in this is a nice
pat on the back it's a nice you
know recognition of what I've been achieving but
I'm here because I want to help the
(19:00):
community I want to get involved you don't
just do it for the title so I
really really love that I think that's a
really commendable thing I'm definitely you know the
listeners should take away if that you are
doing it if you want to be an
MVP stop just do it and then because
you want to put something better and make
the community a better place because you are
always learning would you say in terms of
(19:21):
the tools to reach out is it predominantly
LinkedIn or are there like websites or their
blogs are there like on Reddit is there
anything there that you think that there's an
underground community it was a Twitter and next
but now a lot of people move to
LinkedIn so I would say that LinkedIn is
that now the the main one also having
(19:42):
a own blog post this is also really
great but for example if for a technical
people for developers Microsoft like kind of open
source make open these codes the code for
business et al like this base app and
(20:02):
other apps just to not go to too
much detail to you but and then people
easily can make a changes there as well
so if then you see some bug you
can you can easily come and contribute by
yourself and you don't need to open a
ticket for Microsoft and to wait I don't
know a month or two it doesn't matter
because they have some probably better ways to
(20:24):
spend their time you can just come easily
and fix those things by yourself so I
think this is also really great and a
really really nice project because a lot of
this started like a year ago or a
year and a half or something like that
and a lot of people from community get
started being active there so I think this
is really nice yeah yeah definitely and I
(20:49):
think that's really nice obviously there is that
sense of community sometimes the tickets with Microsoft
can take a little bit longer than I
expected purely probably just because of the demand
with that saying as well I mean one
of the things I think it's really important
to address is as a developer what do
you see by heart by nature what are
you believing at the minute in terms of
(21:10):
the impacts of AI on coding what's your
initial thoughts on this and this isn't a
right or wrong answer it's just really gauge
your perspective yeah to be fair I'm I
think that this is a really I mean
everyone saw that they see that this is
(21:30):
a really next big thing coming around and
it is already there and I think that
I talked with a friend of mine and
he said something really good that we shouldn't
wait for this to be perfect because if
we just wait for this to be perfect
(21:50):
we will be we will fall behind we
will be far far behind others so I
think that we just started immediately if we
already didn't using it as much as possible
I mean we need to remain positive about
it and of course there are it is
not perfect yet but over time it will
be better and better and there is no
(22:11):
doubt that this is the future and this
will change a lot in the coming period
so if I can advise somehow I would
say that just try to start using it
and try to see how you can use
it the best you can I mean there
is already I think a lot of not
(22:31):
only blog posts but people already talk a
lot about it so I think that I
don't know I think that people had some
issues some companies maybe had some issues to
see the real value in currently and maybe
they are missing some use cases currently but
I think that this should change by now
(22:52):
and I hope that a lot of companies
is already using it.
Yeah yeah I think that what we see
when we are conducting say co-pilot training
with end users and partners alike is that
there's a there's a there's half the group
who are like keen but absolutely terrified because
they have no idea what AI is so
half of our training course is about mindset
(23:14):
and it's what it is and what it
isn't and we really express the limitations because
I think that's the most important thing and
then half the room is like well this
guy the other day was like well the
graduates are using it and they're using this
and it's all rubbish and then we're trying
to educate them like what you put in
is what you get out and how you
speak to AI and everything and obviously security
is like a big big thing um yeah
(23:37):
I've been with all these companies oh yeah
we're using charge UBT and I'm like stop
like please stop stop using because they're putting
like vital company IP into that database I'm
like no no please stop so we are
pushing people to you know try and focus
on co-pilot for the tenant but yeah
I think it's the boat's left the port
I guess could be the metaphor to use
(23:58):
so you need to be on it otherwise
because it's going to be happening and the
um I think it was the founder of
Google said that the impact of AI will
have a couple of weeks ago he said
that the impact of AI will have as
much as an implication as the discovery of
electricity on the human race which is kind
well maybe that's a bit extreme but who
knows where it's going to go because obviously
(24:19):
we're only on machine learning and LLMs at
the minute so who knows what the next
step is everybody's terrified definitely I think that
we are not we are I think that
a lot most of the people are not
even aware how big how much things will
change in the future I mean we we
(24:41):
don't know yet I don't know I also
for me it's also sometimes hard to imagine
um what will happen in the next five
years six ten years I mean this is
uh who knows maybe we will all um
yeah I don't know we'll all stop coding
and there will be a AI doing all
(25:02):
the things and maybe we'll just I mean
I think that all of most of the
roles will just change and they will evolve
into something definitely that would be fun to
see yeah because what we do now our
jobs didn't really exist like 10 20 like
the role of a recruiter obviously that was
my that's my background that wasn't a thing
(25:23):
when my family were growing up like that
that role didn't exist so I think as
with anything as the times change the opportunity
is going to change so people shouldn't be
scared of AI they should definitely embrace it
I mean because obviously your area of expertise
is more BC so what are you your
what your current thoughts on what Microsoft is
releasing with it with Copilot and Business Central
(25:43):
or AI tools within BC yeah so Microsoft
started um releasing some smaller features in BC
before but now we are getting a few
bigger ones with the agents and there is
this sales order and there are some new
(26:06):
coming up soon and I was part because
one of the good things having uh being
an MVP is then you you you are
often can see this in private previews or
before they are in public and then you
know you see what product team is working
on and for sure I think in the
next couple of months next half a year
or now soon that there will be a
(26:27):
lot of great uh improvement yeah a lot
of cool new features and I'm looking to
see how the customers will adopt this I
think it offers a lot but uh currently
what what I can see from my perspective
for example and I'm also leading a small
team of developers here and what we do
(26:48):
is uh all of us are using like
github copilot and trying to there is this
a new new model yeah and then chatting
uh I mean just in the code it
is getting better as well also of course
then for email coaching summarising translations I don't
know uh copilot for teams in some customer
(27:11):
meetings we are also using it and um
yeah I mean creating some custom of some
of our team members also created some custom
copilot agents where they use this some kind
of uh documents so it can help them
on answering there as well uh but I
(27:32):
think that uh one of the biggest thing
because we also here at BTO have this
AI centre of excellence team which is helping
additional another companies of um enroling with AI
and there are a few things first I
think that uh the big the biggest thing
(27:53):
and one huge part of this AI creation
is compliance and legal stuff as you already
said and people are not also aware of
that and they are not compliant so a
huge part is just make I mean this
is not a fun part but you need
to set the things to be right but
another thing is also at least in Norway
(28:14):
customers currently have a lot of issues not
issues I would say but their data is
not properly structured or not taught correctly and
then it is not just a Norwegian thing
I think that's every company across the globe
we're finding as well it's actually when it
shows you the data is crucial isn't it
if people don't have that CRM system or
(28:35):
anything in place then it is yeah the
emails is just a whole storage system for
so many companies it's mental yeah yeah it
is so I think there will be some
definitely some rise I think in data analytics
and preparing the data to use it properly
(28:55):
and to have it but now yeah I
think that what we also trying to do
with this AI I mean here in video
and companies that they are offering these courses
to managers and to decide decision makers in
(29:16):
other companies so basically just important people in
another companies can be familiar with the AI
and then they will be easily they can
make easier make some decisions actually because if
they don't know anything and there is a
lot of I think I would say that
there is a lot of companies who couldn't
start it yet and they are not so
(29:38):
familiar with it and I think it is
important for them just to know the how
the things are and the facts so they
can maybe better make some decisions I would
say yeah definitely I agree with that so
the way that we proposition it for our
because our focus within is just within Copilot
M365 now because we're seeing
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