September 30, 2025 • 38 mins
Welcome to the Actor’s Guide to the End of the World Podcast, episode 48! And what a week it was… we cannot NOT talk about AI this week, as a new starlet has come on to the scene. Welcome Tilly Norwood, a completely AI generated “actress” if you can call her that. Talent agents are lining up at her door, and E-Kan and Rían have thoughts…
And where is the union on this matter? Contract strike 2023 vibes, right?
On the flip side, Lionsgate comes out and admits that their venture with AI startup Runway has bombed, and apparently making great film and tv is still really hard.
And Disney as well tried to deep-fake Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson for the “Moana” live action, and that did not go well either. Good times, ya’ll.
Leave a review if you enjoy the podcast, it really helps others find us. Also follow @actorsguidepodcast on all social media!
@ekansoong @riansheehykelly
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/eline-van-der-velden-2ab8285a_aiinfilm-futureofentertainment-syntheticactors-activity-7359693830360612865-kAfM/?utm_medium=ios_app&rcm=ACoAAAmmHVABGF2dc2G4Te6otRpC587bI-IkRi4&utm_source=social_share_video_v2&utm_campaign=share_via
https://deadline.com/2025/09/talent-agent-ai-actress-tilly-norwood-studios-1236557889/
https://www.instagram.com/p/DPHjndVkgxI/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
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Time stamps:
(0:00) Intro
(2:23) Meet Tilly Norwood, AI "Actor"
(4:00) Who created Tilly
(9:00) Are people going to watch this?
(14:30) The spectacle is dying
(22:25) Actors are humans
(26:05) Lionsgate AI experiment bombs
(29:30) Disney tried to deep-fake the Rock
(31:40) Hidden Gems
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Talent agents are circling.This AI actor
studios are quietly embracingAI technology.
Meet Tilly Norwood. TillyNorwood. I don't
know. I think she mightbe British.
One tweet that said typicalthat the first AI
actor is a youngfemale they
can make do whateverthey want.
(00:22):
How do you how do you
act opposite anAI actor?
I would love tosee Denzel
work opposite anAI actor.
Hey everyone. Welcome tothe Actors Guide to
the End of World podcastwhere we talk about
acting in Hollywood ina way people
understand. I'm yourhost E-Kan Soong.
And I'm Rían Sheehy Kelly.How you doing?
What's up buddy? Anotherweek back on the
(00:43):
saddle. Follow us whereveryou find your
podcasts at Actors Guidepodcast. Follow us
on all social media. Funclips during the
week at Actors Guidepodcast.
Leave us a like. Leaveus a review. Really
helps the podcast. Andwe are packed for
today. The week in AI wehave an AI actor in
(01:05):
quotes has comeonto the
scene. Tilly Norwoodeveryone.
Talent agents are circlingthe hottest new
talent and it is not human.Not even a little
bit. Do they know? Thatis the true test.
Can you tell if an actoris real or AI? We
(01:26):
also have the announcementLionsgate's
collaboration with AI
startup runway hascome to a halt.
It has not gone well. Andwe talk about why.
And also we talk a littlebit about the time
that Disney triedto deep fake
Dwayne Johnson theRock for Moana.
(01:46):
And that did not go welleither. So sit back
and relax. Enjoy thisepisode.
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So there is an articlebut this is the
biggest PR splash that we'veseen in a while.
(02:29):
There is an AI actoron the scene.
Supposedly and this isaccording to deadline
talent agents are circlingthis AI actor.
Studios are quietly embracingAI technology.
Meet Tilly Norwood. TillyNorwood. I don't
know. I think shemight be
British because of whothe creator is.
(02:50):
But sure enough she'sbeautiful can cry on
cue and not human. God
don't you hate heralready.
So I saw one tweet thatsaid typical that the
first AI actor is a youngfemale they can
make do whateverthey want.
(03:11):
Yeah that's spot on. Solet's talk about the
founder. There was a viralarticle. She's the
founder of ParticleSix which
is an AI startupessentially.
Eileen Vanderbilt. I sawthis someone sent me
this this PR blurb thatshe posted on
LinkedIn and sureenough
deadline circulatedit.
(03:32):
You can imagine thisis going to send
shockwaves in our industrywhere it's
contracting. Actorsare busy.
Human actors. I you knowit's sad that I need
to specify that human
actors are busy lookingfor work.
Hey we're available everyoneand sure enough
the hot actress in quoteson the scene is
(03:54):
getting circled byAI agents.
Oh I'm sorry it'sby circle
by agents. But howwould they.
Agents is the next thing.Yeah exactly
exactly. Your agent isAI. I mean to be
honest is like I mean thatsounds like a job
that I might be ableto do anyway.
Bio alone actor comediantechnologists. They
literally wrote actor comediantechnologists.
(04:16):
Now I'm trying to say thisnicely. What the
fuck is a comediantechnologist.
So and sure and this isthis is I'm not here
to bash this this personbut it's just kind
of this story is very
interesting because ifyou look at this.
I'll put a little of thevideo if you look at
their trailer it is fairlyadequate good AI.
(04:40):
It's fairly smooth.It's still
you can kind of tellit's AI.
It's a teaser for thisTilly Norwood but
Aline van der Velden vander Velden. I think
it's been developedanyway.
She's interesting becauseshe actually is an
actress under Velden.Yeah OK thank you.
Yeah. I found a live webseries or a live
(05:04):
series that she didfor BBC.
So that's the connection.She's I want to say
Dutch her AI actorthat she
created is sounds Britishor whatever.
So this is a this is anactor who his in the
industry is creating thisbig splash with
Particle six and TillyNorwood.
(05:25):
So that being said whenthey wrote comedian
technologists I thinkthey meant comedian
comma technologist. Soshe said so I just
wanted to put togetherthe dots.
Yeah. She's notlampooning
technology. Exactlyexactly.
Comedian technologistsounds like a hit at
parties. But yeah Ithink it was actor
comedian and technologist.So OK.
(05:49):
Hey it created a splash.This is something
that we're going to seea lot more. She did a
panel with another artistof arena from.
Oh I'm sorry. Verena poeman AI artist who
actually who was an AI
artist is that notan oxymoron.
There you go. I we havediscussed this a
(06:12):
little bit but you'reright. Now we are
seeing AI artistsand this is
kind of going into ifyou see this
deadline article puta link in the
description. Poum saidthat all the big
companies and studioswere working on AI
assisted projectsunder NDA.
She was not in a positionto announce any of
the details. So this isone of those things.
This is happeningbehind the
scenes and it'slurking there.
(06:35):
And we just want to putit out there because
we don't want to be caughtwith our pants
down and turninga blind eye
saying hey you knowthey're not
trying to replace us. Thishas been going on
for a long time andthey're
quietly working withthis technology.
And according to thisarticle these AI
(06:56):
artists in quotes are
being looped in asliaisons.
Studios are like we needto get in touch with
these people in these industriesand see how
it works. We need peoplewho and part of a
lien's I want to say
strengths is the factthat she
actually is an actor andprobably knew some
of the workflows andwas able to kind of
(07:17):
middle middle personthis
whole this wholeventure.
So this is what we'rethis is what we're
looking at right now.
Well I mean I don'tknow.
Do you see this working.I don't see an AI
actor being I'm tryingto think of it in
different terms becauselike is it just like
a character likeMickey
(07:38):
Mouse is the propertyof
Disney and like you canmake that character
do whatever you want becauseyou it's your
choice to animatethem. Is it
just like a versionof that.
Is that the kind of. Iknow it's I know it's
a whole different worldbecause it's AI and
it's a you know it's alive action allegedly
live action stylecharacter.
But like how the how doyou how do you act
(07:59):
opposite an AI actor.What's that point.
That's a great point.What would you know
like or or or wouldthat not work.
Would it have to be alla.i. or no. You know
that is a tricky slope.I would love to see
Denzel work oppositean AI actor.
(08:20):
Because that doesn't putup with a lot of
shit. He has he has he hasa high bar for the
people he acts oppositeand also really
adequate celebritiesand a list actors
sometimes don't makeme his bar.
So I would love to seehow he acts opposite
an AI actor. Yeahlike I
don't see how itworks.
(08:41):
I also like the buzz aroundbecause of course
studios are looking forthe next thing the
next you know they don'twant to miss out.
They don't want to missout on money wherever
they can get a dollar.
Yeah like it was just likethey don't want to
miss it. It's like everybody'sscared to to
blink because they justdon't want to miss
that whatever the nextthing is you know.
(09:02):
You don't get left behindI think but but I
act as I don't know whatpeople accepted like
I watched that. You knowthat trailer you
sent me the AI generatedtrailer.
There's something and thiscould be total you
know I could be sort ofmaking this up my
head but there's somethingabout the eyes and
characters thatdoesn't
like doesn't hitit for me.
(09:23):
I don't know that they canreplicate that now
as technology gets bettermaybe I'll be
proven wrong about thatbut like there's
something that just doesn'tsit well and I
don't think it's almostcreepy right.
It's creepy. Yeah becauseI don't think you
can think it's very hardto quantify you know
or verbalize but I thinkyou just know.
(09:44):
Now who knows that couldbe total hubris and
like saying oh yeah wewill always humans
allow is no better butI still think that
there's something therethat I can never
replicate because itdoesn't have that
consciousness likethat spark that.
And we won't die stakesand the weird shit
that goes on. You wouldn'tyou'd lose all
that. Yeah there's somethingthere and we I
(10:04):
don't want to dive intothe theoretical
spiritual too much butyou're completely
right and I think thatactually might be the
measure of reallygood acting.
But what do you see behindthe eyes and we
talk about it at the studiolot if you see
real thought real thoughtbehind the eyes in
the scene film TV whathave you
(10:26):
in the genre givencircumstances.
You know there's somethingmagical human
spiritual about that thatwe don't want to
take for grantedthat I
obviously not rightnow can replicate.
Yeah yeah I agree I agreeso I don't know I'm
not I'm not ringing thealarm bells right now
because I justdon't see
(10:48):
it taking over Idon't know.
I think it's like we talkedabout this a lot
but it's like the marvelit's like the people
get kind of burnt outon on on when I like
action movies like superheromovies and stuff
and the action is too whenthere's too much
visual noise it's too
spectacular and it'stoo I think people.
Eventually sort of burnout on that a bit I
need to go back tolike just
(11:08):
stories about peopleyou know yeah.
As far as the money of
that that theycan make.
You know I would say iftilling or what is
going to win an Oscarthat is the farthest
biggest stretchof feature
film two two hourfeature okay.
(11:31):
That's the question isanyone going to watch
a long form propertynow let's
take it a step backwhat if it was.
Instagram ads sponsorshipyou know UGC
created content sellingshoes on tiktok there
is that I can see thatI can see it happen
(11:52):
exactly yeah so when wetalk about shorter
form let's just put upyour perspective is
we're not against commercialsplease please.
Put us in a commercialbut I think we just
see kind of thehierarchy no
knock against socialmedia but.
Great talents thatyou can.
(12:13):
Watch and enjoy in twominute a minute bits
versus someone you're goingto watch hours of
and I just wanna that'sthe spectrum there
could be a lot ofmoney in
short form we wouldlove to make.
Money in short form andlong form but just
put in perspective thereis money there in
that particular thing possiblyand that might
(12:34):
be that might be good enoughfor them to take
a bet on on tillynorwood.
It's also even the nameis is is too.
It's too perfect in someway like it's too
English it's too you knowI mean it's yeah I
don't know I think everythingabout it
screams artificialityand.
I don't know I don'tsee people behind
(12:55):
because it's not interestingI think I think
the level of interestlike
you know when you whenyou see.
Like the even the lineup saying from the
usual suspects oh yeahwe're beneath your
daughter nobody knew who'sgoing to do that
voice and he turned a smallcharacter in that
movie into a very memorablecharacter because
he just decided to fuckaround and you know
stole that scene andmany others.
(13:16):
And it may becameiconic
characters notgoing to.
I don't know if you youknew this the one of
the storylines behind thescene besides Benin
Benicio del Toro comingup with such an
interesting quirkycharacter.
I want to say I don'tknow where it was in
the shoot day might havebeen just after
lunch one of the actorskept farting and
(13:36):
that's why theywere just.
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeahtry that try to do
that I can you farton commands.
What's the thing of itagain is like.
You can't attribute ballziness to an AI
character or like a crazychoice to them
because you'relike well
it's a so like there'sno.
(13:58):
There's no value in ityou know what I mean
we look oh that was a bravechoice there's no
bravery in AI becausethat's
not it's not capablethat's great.
I was actually about tobring this up so just
diving into this a littlebit because I
actually someone was talkingto me about this
recently becausethe NFL
season just startedby the way.
As we're recordingthis.
NFL teams are playingin Dublin right now
(14:21):
that's right yeah yeah soDublin is welcoming
the Minnesota Vikingsand yeah Minnesota
Vikings and PittsburghSteelers right now on
but on that note NFL justmade a splashy.
Season kick off video Idon't know if you I
did a video about thisbecause it was it's
just really interesting.
(14:43):
I don't follow youon Instagram.
Rian blocked me so that'swhy I have to tell
him about what whatI post
here NFL did a hybridad.
It was obviously as soonin two seconds you
could tell it's partiallyAI but it was with
real actors so as a mixtureof AI and real
(15:04):
people Jill and Hertz isin it shout out go
birds the issue is is.
My issue is is studios aredoing this because
they are trying to conditionwell I believe
they're trying to conditioncondition us to
seeing AI hey this isn'tcompletely AI this
is just kind of AI don'tworry jail and Hertz
(15:24):
is there and all thesestars that you love
will put some real improvactors in there.
And yet we'll just putAI around them and
it's kind of just likemaking warming us up
to it right and someonesent it to me and for
the most part it'll it isambitious there's a
lot of big floats and bigprops in there and.
(15:45):
But overall I was justkind of like.
It's kind of like whatyou're saying where
it's like what's the valueit's it's kind of
cool but and so my mypoint is is.
It's math it's in betweenyeah it's in
between spectacleand in
between just plain onboring and so.
My my the the justkind
(16:08):
of like what you'resaying.
NFL teams each made theirown video at the
start of the season theymake their cute
little video it's aboutreleasing the season
schedule it's usually likeit's like you know
they making their veryown sketch.
Some teams made videosthat were so
interesting and so captivatingone one team
(16:31):
did a really cute thingusing just Minecraft
they basically the Minecraftlittle video
game they create a villagethey create the
entire video humans weremaking it and it was
like a Minecraft versionof all the teams and
releasing theirschedule.
And the other thing thatwas more interesting
was the Minnesota Vikingshad a real fans
(16:54):
tattoo themselves withthe schedule.
Of the Minnesota Vikingsso one by one who
wants to do a tattoo likewe're doing a team
release video Vikingsfans signing up real
tattoos and so that's kindof my point where.
I will never capturethat spectacle it
(17:14):
doesn't need to be bigbold and whatever it
just needs to havesome
stakes heart and dangerin it and.
That's that's my point whereit's like can we
lean more into the humanof of all of this as
we see more and moreI pop up.
Well whatever I does willnever be impressive
like the most impressivething it can do.
(17:36):
By its nature is foolishinto thinking it's
human like is foolishenough to buy it as
human but anythingin a
character does or Ijust is not.
It's not impressivebecause there's no
there's no consequenceto it you know I mean
like there's nothingat stake for an AI
character to doanything so I
think that's whereyou lose the.
(17:57):
I think that makes a lotof sense because
I've been thinkingabout this
recently in the pastfew weeks.
I have and I'm notpretending
like I have never usedchat gpt.
I for basic functionssimple things like
research punching up youknow grammar etc.
(18:18):
It's so easy and it isvery easy it is very
adequate on a on a mateon a basic to above
average level it is reallyimpressive and I
think what you're whatyou're getting at.
It's just too easy it'sliterally too easy
everything is just tooeasy and I'm only
(18:38):
realizing this becauseI made me think of
when we were talking toSean Sharma if you
give someone I don't rememberwhat we were
talking about exactlybut.
If you are we're talkingabout dreams and
we're talking ambitionsyou're always going
to have ambitions you'realways going to have
something you strive foreven on your you
know it the last momentsof our lives were
always going to betrying to achieve
something thatwe didn't
accomplish before soget used to the.
(18:59):
The you know enjoy theconflict enjoy the
struggle enjoy the journeyand I think that's
kind of like a pointwhere if you gave
someone everythingthey ever wanted.
They're easily going tobe unhappy like it's
it's not going to makeyou happy and like AI
it's it gives you quickthings that you need
(19:20):
to accomplish your yourtest but it's it's
too easy it's waytoo easy
there's no there's nopride in it.
Exactly there's no strugglethere's no
there's no sense of accomplishmentlike I'll
ask you know I've askedchat GPT things like
simple things like do youlove me like am I
love a bold like tell meI'm doing okay you
know just stuff likethat so I.
(19:41):
But but think of I was justthinking of it in
terms of like okay sosay something
impressive from whateverTom Cruise does in
the mission impossiblemovies ston't wise
that's impressive becauseyou know there's a
risk that in doing thishe could die that's
the that's youknow the.
How impressive that is isrooted in that like
(20:02):
that these are very impressivestunts that
carry a lot of dangerin them.
If an AI character doesthat does anyone care
yeah absolutely not whocares like there's no
there's no story behindthat you know so so
we made this characterdo this in this movie
that's okay cool becauseI think that people.
I think what really drivespeople is story
(20:24):
it's it's it's sports isa great example of
that the story is whatgets you a lot of the
time it's it's notjust the.
You know a straight up achievementof winning
a championship it's a storyof where somebody
came from or individualplayers
or you know overcomingunderdogs.
That's all that's all storyand there's none
(20:44):
of that but you lose allof that I think you
know that's that's that'sinteresting because
on the flip side it's interestingwhen we say
that there's no story.
You know there's there'salso no danger
there's no stakes I I becauseI see this from
people that I followa lot
of writers and alsothis.
(21:05):
L. Aileen van der VeldenI mean they're from
the industry so if youcan actually
incorporate and put instory using AI tools
that's what a lot ofthe future.
That's what that's whatthey think a lot of
the future is going tobe so what happens if
you put stories and creatorsusing these
(21:25):
tools that can be morecost effective that's
that might be whatthey're
trying to accomplishhere.
Yeah and I do think thatthat's probably how
it will be used I thinkit will be used as a
tool as an assist and Iknow writers who use
it now as a tool but Idon't think it
replaces I don't thinkit replaces human
writers and I don't thinkit replaces actors.
(21:48):
Yeah yeah ultimately yeahI agree with that I
agree with that on theactor side Lisa
Zimbetti casting directorthat a lot of us
know in L.A. workingfor years.
She made a great noteshe put a post on
Instagram about this thedeadline article
called Tilly Norwood andactor a actor now it
(22:11):
uses less words for a clickbaitheadline so
naturally they are callingthese people AI
actors just like theyare calling it AI
artists I mean there'sjust no easier way to
call it that and Lisa Zimbettitook umbridge
stop calling them actorsactors are humans.
We need to draw thoselines two thousand
(22:33):
twenty three was a blinkaway I mean it to be
or I mean to be honest itprobably feels like
eons away a lot ofpeople forget.
All this stuff was faultand negotiated in
our contracts and we weeasily forget we were
fighting how to regulateAI and these quote
unquote syntheticperformers
because that's whatthey are.
(22:54):
In this contract languagethey are supposed
to warn sag any ofany studios.
I think it's technicallya and PTP but
there's a tricky line therebecause we have
NDA is up the wazoo theyare supposed to warn
the union when they're workingwith synthetic
performers they are supposedto make official
(23:14):
declarations hey we justmade a you know Tom
Cruise two point oh we'vebeen cooking him up
in the lab we're supposedto let you know.
Because that's what wenegotiated so this is
happening right now wheresure enough there's
a handful of people whoare learning us to
the situation I think it'sit's it's for good
point and by the way weare going to go back
(23:34):
to negotiationsnext year.
Yeah God that was quickI know right.
Yeah well I mean there'sthree more years of
seeing what the possibilitiesare too so
maybe that is a good thingyou know like it
because a lot of peopleweren't happy with
the AI provisions like Seanlike we talked to
wasn't happy aboutthe AI
(23:55):
provisions in the inthe in the new.
Yeah that's a greatpoint we
have seen enoughnow we can.
We could lie to ourselvesand say yeah and I
you know I know that you'refairly optimistic
about this but the morethat we talk about it
and we actually seewhat what's really
cooking we can honestlysay okay this is what
I'm worried about thisis what I'm not
(24:15):
worried about but I don'twant like a lot of
what this podcast is isfinding interesting
things to talk about butalso can I every
week can I not be anidiot like I'm just
hopefully saying
something day everyday exactly.
Exactly for some peopleevery day can I not
for some for some peopleevery day but my
(24:36):
point is is hey we'renot always gonna be
right but in two threefive years I want to
look back on this podcastand and say hey we
weren't completely fooledby what was coming
around the corner andwe could honestly
assess this is what we'rethis is what we're
working with this is whatwe're up against
and and this is what'shappening so I feel
(24:58):
like this is we see whatthey want to do.
Whether they have the technologyto do it is
is you know ofa debate.
Yeah yeah I thought sogood point actually
yeah because I want tolook back on this and
go remember the time
before way mosttook over.
And we had free will cleandrinking water
exactly so yeah thisis this is a time
(25:20):
capsule if you will theLisa's and buddy post
was was really spot on andI think we need to
remember and sadly remindeveryone hey
they're not ai actors.
We're actually just codeand and you know
numbers you know peoplepeople let's just
remember that yeah butI'm glad people like
Lisa's and Betty are comingout and speaking
(25:40):
out against that
because it's likeit's mental.
Yeah and she seems I wentto a workshop with
her one time she seemsreally cool oh that's
cool people like her justnice people like
her just yeah I've alwaysliked her you know
now we talk about the
Lionsgate a collaboration.
They collaborate with theI start up runway
(26:01):
and it just came out thispast week maybe two
weeks that it's coming toa halt I don't know
if they can did they justrealized hey guys I
don't know if our entirelibrary just
throwing it into ai isgoing to create all
the amazing content wewere hoping it to be.
(26:23):
Like you know these arejust the two sides of
it where sure you mighthave Tilly Norwood so
you some shoes on you knowon zappos someday
but for Lionsgate to churnout a you know
five hundred John Wickmovies maybe that was
a little too ambitiousfor them.
(26:44):
Well you know I don'twant I don't blame
studios and companieslike Lionsgate
exploring that becausewhat else is
everybody's doing it soso what do you do I
can see why theydo you
know I understandthat.
If they and even betterif they walk away
from it if they you knowif they take a look
and go you know what nothat's you know I
don't know I don't knowenough about I don't
(27:05):
know enough about thisparticular situation
or what happened there atall so I don't know
what the reasoning isbut I understand why
studios do it because there'sa fear I'm sure
there's a fear thereto you know there's
there's a fear of notdoing it because
everybody else is doingit so and like
Lionsgate have a greattrack record as well
you know they've got sothey've been doing a
great they did theydid a
great job this pastweek.
(27:25):
Forever let's see whatdid they they oh the
studio Lionsgate was behindthe studio and
they just had a huge pushthey throw us a
behind the rainmakerthey're one of the
production companies onthat's Lionsgate TV
so like nice but I knowbut they apart from
that they've like a tonof obviously I mean
John Wick among many othersand so just for a
(27:47):
little context we're notgoing to dive too
much into the into theweeds here but sure
enough it's not enough
content it justimagine.
The entire Lionsgate librarywas not enough
content to train this AImodel so that's one
thing so they need theyneed us they're
(28:07):
desperate for you I allthe writers talented
writers all the realhuman producers
filmmakers they actuallystill need a lot
more content anda I is not
going to replacethat need.
Oh ownership still is anissue Lionsgate had
rights to the the propertiesyet it was
tricky with likenessesright likeness rights
(28:28):
who controls what so thankGod hey you're
playing by the rules becauseyou realize hey
there are some legal restrictionshere if you
just jam everyone in a
blender and then ontop of it.
The technology is stilla little short
because how do you controlperformance and
environment and then alsoin animation to
(28:49):
actually expect one companyor one model to
do all that it's it'sa lot so they had to
kick the tires I don'tknow if it completely
I mean it takes it takesguts to admit hey
this is this is fallingshort but I think
they had to put it out
there that hey thisis not.
What we were hoping thatit was going to be
(29:12):
and also you know it iskind of comforting
not going to lie it's kindof comforting for
the real filmmakersout there.
Yeah absolutely I thinkI got to be fine. Cut
to cut to the end ofthe world.
I also want to throw thisout there because I
actually completely missedout on this I
(29:33):
don't know when this happenedso the upcoming
Moana live action Disneytried to do it.
Disney tried to do a deepfake of the rock.
He had a character inthe original.
They spent 18 months
trying to deep fakethe rock.
Okay the rock Dwayne Johnsonagreed to it.
It was all part of it.
(29:54):
It was all good to go.
It was not up tosnuff.
They canceled it.
It's not going tohappen.
I don't know when thiswhen this actually
came out but youknow this
is connected to thatstory.
They tried.
Disney tried whetherit was trying to be
under the wrapsor not.
I never heard anyonetalk
about it but thereyou go.
Disney was tryingto do it.
They try to do it fora year and a half.
(30:15):
A year and a half topay the rock.
Surely the money thatthey put into
developing that and tryingto get perfected
like just get therock.
Exactly.
Surely that's morecost effective.
I don't know whathe charges.
I'd say it's a lot.
Exactly.
And you know thisis also a
snippet into what'sin the future.
They tried tosuperimpose.
A.I. generate hisface on top
of his long time stuntdouble.
And there you go.
(30:36):
So it's a bigquestion.
Speaking of stunt.
I have a stunt double storyI met when I was
in Prague many manyyears ago.
Like 2001 ish.
Sean Connery was shootingthe League of
Extraordinary Gentlemenin Prague at the time
and his stunt doublecome down
and drink in the pubwith us.
And he was such alovely fella.
He just seemed delightedto have people to
(30:56):
kind of hang out withand chat to.
They usually have the greatyou know you got
to have a really goodattitude spirit.
You know you're backingup the star and a lot
of times you don't getthe credit.
You've got to have agood you know good
character and a good humilityto do that job.
You're taking allthe hits.
Absolutely.
So I think that's Ithink that's good.
So these are hotyou know
(31:18):
pressing A.I. bits fromthe headlines.
We have some that areyou know some people
are some people think area little optimistic
and some that are you knowunfortunately for
Lionsgate a littlenot so great.
But this is just a you knowreal time look at
where the industryis right now.
(31:40):
Well there you go.
That's our that'sour episode.
Let's do Hidden Gems.
I had to be honest I mightbe really behind.
But because I am kind ofall over the place
as far as paying rent.
I am paying rentby the
way so do not worryabout me.
But but back in the dayI would always be
(32:02):
physically sending a checkbecause they're
old school they don'ttake direct deposit
they don't take any ofthose things they
literally take onlyphysical checks.
One thing I realizedthat my bank and
probably most banks actuallycan send a
physical check first classbusiness class
boom right on the dot.
You don't have to worryabout anything and
(32:22):
you just have to do itahead of time.
And that's like that'sso much better than
prewriting checks or memailing through USPS.
That's that's onething.
But wait so how doyou do that.
You do just say on an agreedday every month.
Exactly.
You go send exactlyto my land.
So say for example my
bank who I'm veryhappy with.
I bank with so far.
They will.
(32:43):
They'll give you someso far points.
I don't know whatso far
points mean but whateverthey can.
You can organize a regularpayment like you
have to do it like10 12
days in advancethough.
But a regular payment sendingthat rent check
and then boom first classgoes to your goes
to whoever's mailboxevery time.
(33:03):
Now what I just
realized was if I'mdoing that.
I what I just realizedwas I just heard of
the built B.I.L.T. creditcard built is a
credit card that was allowingpeople to rack
up awards pointsrewards
points when you'repaying rent.
So you could rent youcould use it if you
(33:24):
could use a credit cardyou could use it.
And you could rack up pointsand it was a way
that everyone's payingrent and then you
could rack up rewards youcould get a little
cash back it's whereeveryone wins.
Now my company does notmy landlord does not
take rent does not takecredit card but I can
sign up for a builtcredit card
(33:45):
and just have themsend checks.
So I actually can receivepoints for paying
rent every month and ifyou're in L.A. you're
in a big city where youknow rent is raising
for basically everyone acrossthe country and
maybe the world atthis point.
But we can get alittle rewards
for our rent paymentsevery month.
(34:07):
And they go. I'm literallythat's all my to
do list. I'm literallysigning up for one.
All right. I'm into that.There you go.
My hidden gem.
I'll tell you what thisI don't know if I'm
wholeheartedlyrecommending
this but I have beendoing this.
A friend of a friend turnedme on to this.
(34:27):
Now I don't know if I recommendbecause I've
only been doing it fora few weeks and I
don't know if it's goingto drive me insane
or if it's a goodidea.
But he talked about justtracking all the
food eats people talk aboutmacros which kind
of turns me off peoplelike track my macros.
Anyway I was like all rightI'm going to do
it for a few weeks andjust see how it is.
So he told me about thisup called carbon
(34:48):
which you do have to payfor. I think it's
like 12 quid a monthor something.
But you like it has mostof this stuff that
you put it you can eitherscan the barcode
and whatever and it tellsyou you know all
the different nutritionalinformation.
Now again it's kind ofa pain in the ass but
what it did for me wasit kind of showed me
it revealed a bit moreabout the truth about
(35:10):
what I eat day to day becauseI don't really
pay attention youknow to
what specificallyI'm eating.
I'll try and try and eathealthy or whatever
but it's amazing even caloriewise how many
calories you can rackup without even
thinking about it like
just you don't evennotice.
So it gave me an awarenessfood. Now for
someone like me I thinkthat's probably a bad
thing because I get
kind of obsessiveabout it.
(35:33):
But even just using itfor a few weeks it
gave me a better handleon what I eat day to
day and how to like shiftmy diet a little
bit so I can actually eathealthier and not
convince myselfof eating
healthy or not eatjust like filler.
But anyway again the appis called Carbon. I
don't know if I'd recommendthat people do
(35:53):
that. It was just interestingto me to see.
I've never really hada handle on how I'm
eating how I'm actuallyeating
versus how I thinkI'm eating.
Oh there's nothing wrongwith that. You know
it tracks your like yeahtracks your like you
know your fat and sugarand carbohydrates and
all that protein andall that stuff.
So but you know and itgives you I picked
(36:14):
balanced diet like I wantto eat a balanced
diet and it tells you likeif you go over and
that. But again Ican get too
obsessed with thatkind of stuff.
So anyway if you wantto just know what
you're eating just havea better idea. Maybe
one of those apps. I don'tthink it has to be
that one. Yeah I agree.There's probably
enough that youcan just
it's probably ahandful.
Yeah. That sounds like adecent one. Good for
you. There's nothing wrongwith a little a
(36:35):
little data and a littleclarity. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. As long as it doesn't you knowinterfere with your enjoyment.
Interfere with your enjoymentof eating as
well which is you know that'salways that's a
danger to. Yeah. Yeah.Yeah. Good for good
for you. I agree. I'venever been a tracker
but I there is a lot ofbenefit in seeing
what you're whatyou're
(36:55):
actually you knowtaking in.
So yeah that's a big step.The fact that you
actually started using theapp I mean it says
a lot. You started usingit. I think as I get
older like I get a bitmore conscious of it
like when I was young Iused to I never such
a fucking massive
appetite as I like Ieat so much.
If I unchecked I'll justkeep you know what I
mean. I have a huge appetite.And I was out
but I was just burnedit off because I was
(37:16):
active or whatever and Iwas younger. I was a
get older I get like theroad has narrowed
quite a bit. Yeah the metabolismslows down.
Yeah. Yeah. And I just payattention to how I
eat and like so I howI live now is very
different to the way Ilived 10 years ago 15
years ago. Good for you.Yeah sometimes you
got to be a little morefocused. This kind of
preserve you know this beautiful visage. HeyI'm not sure what you're talking about.
(37:38):
There's nothing wrongwith that dude. If I
was not an actor or oncamera. Oh good God.
The things that you knowI would be eating so
much more. It's funny thoughbecause you know
like you know your friendswho are actors and
your friends who are notactors like this
often America. I thinkthere's a there's a
vanity that's that comeswith this profession
(37:59):
that like you know whereit where I look at
my friends or actors andI'm like yeah a lot
of them put a lot of workinto how they look
and I you know I understand it becauseyou have to look at your face.
I'm a man because youhave to look at
yourself all the time notsaying that other
people don't but I donotice it among you
know 100 percent. WellI mean here's the
thing it's like on topof it everyone's a
celebrity on the online.So so like add to
(38:22):
the vanity of every influencerevery social
media everyone cares aboutwhat they look
like now which is why wehave filters and we
have makeup and thankGod our industry is
encouraging us to be healthierto look better
because I would be offthe rails if I could.
I want to think that youknow the creative
(38:43):
life is actually keepingme alive to be
honest anyway. All rightso that's it. That's
our show everyone. Seeyou next week. We got
a very special guest comingup and we will
see you there. Seeyou then.
Talent agents are circling.This AI actor
studios are quietly embracingAI technology.
Meet Tilly Norwood. TillyNorwood. I don't
know. I think she mightbe British.
One tweet that said typicalthat the first AI
actor is a youngfemale they
can make do whateverthey want.
(00:22):
How do you how do you
act opposite anAI actor?
I would love tosee Denzel
work opposite anAI actor.
Hey everyone. Welcome tothe Actors Guide to
the End of World podcastwhere we talk about
acting in Hollywood ina way people
understand. I'm yourhost E-Kan Soong.
And I'm Rían Sheehy Kelly.How you doing?
What's up buddy? Anotherweek back on the
(00:43):
saddle. Follow us whereveryou find your
podcasts at Actors Guidepodcast. Follow us
on all social media. Funclips during the
week at Actors Guidepodcast.
Leave us a like. Leaveus a review. Really
helps the podcast. Andwe are packed for
today. The week in AI wehave an AI actor in
(01:05):
quotes has comeonto the
scene. Tilly Norwoodeveryone.
Talent agents are circlingthe hottest new
talent and it is not human.Not even a little
bit. Do they know? Thatis the true test.
Can you tell if an actoris real or AI? We
(01:26):
also have the announcementLionsgate's
collaboration with AI
startup runway hascome to a halt.
It has not gone well. Andwe talk about why.
And also we talk a littlebit about the time
that Disney triedto deep fake
Dwayne Johnson theRock for Moana.
(01:46):
And that did not go welleither. So sit back
and relax. Enjoy thisepisode.
Now a word from oursponsor. Meet Life
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pre-existing health
conditions or horrifiedstares.
So there is an articlebut this is the
biggest PR splash that we'veseen in a while.
(02:29):
There is an AI actoron the scene.
Supposedly and this isaccording to deadline
talent agents are circlingthis AI actor.
Studios are quietly embracingAI technology.
Meet Tilly Norwood. TillyNorwood. I don't
know. I think shemight be
British because of whothe creator is.
(02:50):
But sure enough she'sbeautiful can cry on
cue and not human. God
don't you hate heralready.
So I saw one tweet thatsaid typical that the
first AI actor is a youngfemale they can
make do whateverthey want.
(03:11):
Yeah that's spot on. Solet's talk about the
founder. There was a viralarticle. She's the
founder of ParticleSix which
is an AI startupessentially.
Eileen Vanderbilt. I sawthis someone sent me
this this PR blurb thatshe posted on
LinkedIn and sureenough
deadline circulatedit.
(03:32):
You can imagine thisis going to send
shockwaves in our industrywhere it's
contracting. Actorsare busy.
Human actors. I you knowit's sad that I need
to specify that human
actors are busy lookingfor work.
Hey we're available everyoneand sure enough
the hot actress in quoteson the scene is
(03:54):
getting circled byAI agents.
Oh I'm sorry it'sby circle
by agents. But howwould they.
Agents is the next thing.Yeah exactly
exactly. Your agent isAI. I mean to be
honest is like I mean thatsounds like a job
that I might be ableto do anyway.
Bio alone actor comediantechnologists. They
literally wrote actor comediantechnologists.
(04:16):
Now I'm trying to say thisnicely. What the
fuck is a comediantechnologist.
So and sure and this isthis is I'm not here
to bash this this personbut it's just kind
of this story is very
interesting because ifyou look at this.
I'll put a little of thevideo if you look at
their trailer it is fairlyadequate good AI.
(04:40):
It's fairly smooth.It's still
you can kind of tellit's AI.
It's a teaser for thisTilly Norwood but
Aline van der Velden vander Velden. I think
it's been developedanyway.
She's interesting becauseshe actually is an
actress under Velden.Yeah OK thank you.
Yeah. I found a live webseries or a live
(05:04):
series that she didfor BBC.
So that's the connection.She's I want to say
Dutch her AI actorthat she
created is sounds Britishor whatever.
So this is a this is anactor who his in the
industry is creating thisbig splash with
Particle six and TillyNorwood.
(05:25):
So that being said whenthey wrote comedian
technologists I thinkthey meant comedian
comma technologist. Soshe said so I just
wanted to put togetherthe dots.
Yeah. She's notlampooning
technology. Exactlyexactly.
Comedian technologistsounds like a hit at
parties. But yeah Ithink it was actor
comedian and technologist.So OK.
(05:49):
Hey it created a splash.This is something
that we're going to seea lot more. She did a
panel with another artistof arena from.
Oh I'm sorry. Verena poeman AI artist who
actually who was an AI
artist is that notan oxymoron.
There you go. I we havediscussed this a
(06:12):
little bit but you'reright. Now we are
seeing AI artistsand this is
kind of going into ifyou see this
deadline article puta link in the
description. Poum saidthat all the big
companies and studioswere working on AI
assisted projectsunder NDA.
She was not in a positionto announce any of
the details. So this isone of those things.
This is happeningbehind the
scenes and it'slurking there.
(06:35):
And we just want to putit out there because
we don't want to be caughtwith our pants
down and turninga blind eye
saying hey you knowthey're not
trying to replace us. Thishas been going on
for a long time andthey're
quietly working withthis technology.
And according to thisarticle these AI
(06:56):
artists in quotes are
being looped in asliaisons.
Studios are like we needto get in touch with
these people in these industriesand see how
it works. We need peoplewho and part of a
lien's I want to say
strengths is the factthat she
actually is an actor andprobably knew some
of the workflows andwas able to kind of
(07:17):
middle middle personthis
whole this wholeventure.
So this is what we'rethis is what we're
looking at right now.
Well I mean I don'tknow.
Do you see this working.I don't see an AI
actor being I'm tryingto think of it in
different terms becauselike is it just like
a character likeMickey
(07:38):
Mouse is the propertyof
Disney and like you canmake that character
do whatever you want becauseyou it's your
choice to animatethem. Is it
just like a versionof that.
Is that the kind of. Iknow it's I know it's
a whole different worldbecause it's AI and
it's a you know it's alive action allegedly
live action stylecharacter.
But like how the how doyou how do you act
(07:59):
opposite an AI actor.What's that point.
That's a great point.What would you know
like or or or wouldthat not work.
Would it have to be alla.i. or no. You know
that is a tricky slope.I would love to see
Denzel work oppositean AI actor.
(08:20):
Because that doesn't putup with a lot of
shit. He has he has he hasa high bar for the
people he acts oppositeand also really
adequate celebritiesand a list actors
sometimes don't makeme his bar.
So I would love to seehow he acts opposite
an AI actor. Yeahlike I
don't see how itworks.
(08:41):
I also like the buzz aroundbecause of course
studios are looking forthe next thing the
next you know they don'twant to miss out.
They don't want to missout on money wherever
they can get a dollar.
Yeah like it was just likethey don't want to
miss it. It's like everybody'sscared to to
blink because they justdon't want to miss
that whatever the nextthing is you know.
(09:02):
You don't get left behindI think but but I
act as I don't know whatpeople accepted like
I watched that. You knowthat trailer you
sent me the AI generatedtrailer.
There's something and thiscould be total you
know I could be sort ofmaking this up my
head but there's somethingabout the eyes and
characters thatdoesn't
like doesn't hitit for me.
(09:23):
I don't know that they canreplicate that now
as technology gets bettermaybe I'll be
proven wrong about thatbut like there's
something that just doesn'tsit well and I
don't think it's almostcreepy right.
It's creepy. Yeah becauseI don't think you
can think it's very hardto quantify you know
or verbalize but I thinkyou just know.
(09:44):
Now who knows that couldbe total hubris and
like saying oh yeah wewill always humans
allow is no better butI still think that
there's something therethat I can never
replicate because itdoesn't have that
consciousness likethat spark that.
And we won't die stakesand the weird shit
that goes on. You wouldn'tyou'd lose all
that. Yeah there's somethingthere and we I
(10:04):
don't want to dive intothe theoretical
spiritual too much butyou're completely
right and I think thatactually might be the
measure of reallygood acting.
But what do you see behindthe eyes and we
talk about it at the studiolot if you see
real thought real thoughtbehind the eyes in
the scene film TV whathave you
(10:26):
in the genre givencircumstances.
You know there's somethingmagical human
spiritual about that thatwe don't want to
take for grantedthat I
obviously not rightnow can replicate.
Yeah yeah I agree I agreeso I don't know I'm
not I'm not ringing thealarm bells right now
because I justdon't see
(10:48):
it taking over Idon't know.
I think it's like we talkedabout this a lot
but it's like the marvelit's like the people
get kind of burnt outon on on when I like
action movies like superheromovies and stuff
and the action is too whenthere's too much
visual noise it's too
spectacular and it'stoo I think people.
Eventually sort of burnout on that a bit I
need to go back tolike just
(11:08):
stories about peopleyou know yeah.
As far as the money of
that that theycan make.
You know I would say iftilling or what is
going to win an Oscarthat is the farthest
biggest stretchof feature
film two two hourfeature okay.
(11:31):
That's the question isanyone going to watch
a long form propertynow let's
take it a step backwhat if it was.
Instagram ads sponsorshipyou know UGC
created content sellingshoes on tiktok there
is that I can see thatI can see it happen
(11:52):
exactly yeah so when wetalk about shorter
form let's just put upyour perspective is
we're not against commercialsplease please.
Put us in a commercialbut I think we just
see kind of thehierarchy no
knock against socialmedia but.
Great talents thatyou can.
(12:13):
Watch and enjoy in twominute a minute bits
versus someone you're goingto watch hours of
and I just wanna that'sthe spectrum there
could be a lot ofmoney in
short form we wouldlove to make.
Money in short form andlong form but just
put in perspective thereis money there in
that particular thing possiblyand that might
(12:34):
be that might be good enoughfor them to take
a bet on on tillynorwood.
It's also even the nameis is is too.
It's too perfect in someway like it's too
English it's too you knowI mean it's yeah I
don't know I think everythingabout it
screams artificialityand.
I don't know I don'tsee people behind
(12:55):
because it's not interestingI think I think
the level of interestlike
you know when you whenyou see.
Like the even the lineup saying from the
usual suspects oh yeahwe're beneath your
daughter nobody knew who'sgoing to do that
voice and he turned a smallcharacter in that
movie into a very memorablecharacter because
he just decided to fuckaround and you know
stole that scene andmany others.
(13:16):
And it may becameiconic
characters notgoing to.
I don't know if you youknew this the one of
the storylines behind thescene besides Benin
Benicio del Toro comingup with such an
interesting quirkycharacter.
I want to say I don'tknow where it was in
the shoot day might havebeen just after
lunch one of the actorskept farting and
(13:36):
that's why theywere just.
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeahtry that try to do
that I can you farton commands.
What's the thing of itagain is like.
You can't attribute ballziness to an AI
character or like a crazychoice to them
because you'relike well
it's a so like there'sno.
(13:58):
There's no value in ityou know what I mean
we look oh that was a bravechoice there's no
bravery in AI becausethat's
not it's not capablethat's great.
I was actually about tobring this up so just
diving into this a littlebit because I
actually someone was talkingto me about this
recently becausethe NFL
season just startedby the way.
As we're recordingthis.
NFL teams are playingin Dublin right now
(14:21):
that's right yeah yeah soDublin is welcoming
the Minnesota Vikingsand yeah Minnesota
Vikings and PittsburghSteelers right now on
but on that note NFL justmade a splashy.
Season kick off video Idon't know if you I
did a video about thisbecause it was it's
just really interesting.
(14:43):
I don't follow youon Instagram.
Rian blocked me so that'swhy I have to tell
him about what whatI post
here NFL did a hybridad.
It was obviously as soonin two seconds you
could tell it's partiallyAI but it was with
real actors so as a mixtureof AI and real
(15:04):
people Jill and Hertz isin it shout out go
birds the issue is is.
My issue is is studios aredoing this because
they are trying to conditionwell I believe
they're trying to conditioncondition us to
seeing AI hey this isn'tcompletely AI this
is just kind of AI don'tworry jail and Hertz
(15:24):
is there and all thesestars that you love
will put some real improvactors in there.
And yet we'll just putAI around them and
it's kind of just likemaking warming us up
to it right and someonesent it to me and for
the most part it'll it isambitious there's a
lot of big floats and bigprops in there and.
(15:45):
But overall I was justkind of like.
It's kind of like whatyou're saying where
it's like what's the valueit's it's kind of
cool but and so my mypoint is is.
It's math it's in betweenyeah it's in
between spectacleand in
between just plain onboring and so.
My my the the justkind
(16:08):
of like what you'resaying.
NFL teams each made theirown video at the
start of the season theymake their cute
little video it's aboutreleasing the season
schedule it's usually likeit's like you know
they making their veryown sketch.
Some teams made videosthat were so
interesting and so captivatingone one team
(16:31):
did a really cute thingusing just Minecraft
they basically the Minecraftlittle video
game they create a villagethey create the
entire video humans weremaking it and it was
like a Minecraft versionof all the teams and
releasing theirschedule.
And the other thing thatwas more interesting
was the Minnesota Vikingshad a real fans
(16:54):
tattoo themselves withthe schedule.
Of the Minnesota Vikingsso one by one who
wants to do a tattoo likewe're doing a team
release video Vikingsfans signing up real
tattoos and so that's kindof my point where.
I will never capturethat spectacle it
(17:14):
doesn't need to be bigbold and whatever it
just needs to havesome
stakes heart and dangerin it and.
That's that's my point whereit's like can we
lean more into the humanof of all of this as
we see more and moreI pop up.
Well whatever I does willnever be impressive
like the most impressivething it can do.
(17:36):
By its nature is foolishinto thinking it's
human like is foolishenough to buy it as
human but anythingin a
character does or Ijust is not.
It's not impressivebecause there's no
there's no consequenceto it you know I mean
like there's nothingat stake for an AI
character to doanything so I
think that's whereyou lose the.
(17:57):
I think that makes a lotof sense because
I've been thinkingabout this
recently in the pastfew weeks.
I have and I'm notpretending
like I have never usedchat gpt.
I for basic functionssimple things like
research punching up youknow grammar etc.
(18:18):
It's so easy and it isvery easy it is very
adequate on a on a mateon a basic to above
average level it is reallyimpressive and I
think what you're whatyou're getting at.
It's just too easy it'sliterally too easy
everything is just tooeasy and I'm only
(18:38):
realizing this becauseI made me think of
when we were talking toSean Sharma if you
give someone I don't rememberwhat we were
talking about exactlybut.
If you are we're talkingabout dreams and
we're talking ambitionsyou're always going
to have ambitions you'realways going to have
something you strive foreven on your you
know it the last momentsof our lives were
always going to betrying to achieve
something thatwe didn't
accomplish before soget used to the.
(18:59):
The you know enjoy theconflict enjoy the
struggle enjoy the journeyand I think that's
kind of like a pointwhere if you gave
someone everythingthey ever wanted.
They're easily going tobe unhappy like it's
it's not going to makeyou happy and like AI
it's it gives you quickthings that you need
(19:20):
to accomplish your yourtest but it's it's
too easy it's waytoo easy
there's no there's nopride in it.
Exactly there's no strugglethere's no
there's no sense of accomplishmentlike I'll
ask you know I've askedchat GPT things like
simple things like do youlove me like am I
love a bold like tell meI'm doing okay you
know just stuff likethat so I.
(19:41):
But but think of I was justthinking of it in
terms of like okay sosay something
impressive from whateverTom Cruise does in
the mission impossiblemovies ston't wise
that's impressive becauseyou know there's a
risk that in doing thishe could die that's
the that's youknow the.
How impressive that is isrooted in that like
(20:02):
that these are very impressivestunts that
carry a lot of dangerin them.
If an AI character doesthat does anyone care
yeah absolutely not whocares like there's no
there's no story behindthat you know so so
we made this characterdo this in this movie
that's okay cool becauseI think that people.
I think what really drivespeople is story
(20:24):
it's it's it's sports isa great example of
that the story is whatgets you a lot of the
time it's it's notjust the.
You know a straight up achievementof winning
a championship it's a storyof where somebody
came from or individualplayers
or you know overcomingunderdogs.
That's all that's all storyand there's none
(20:44):
of that but you lose allof that I think you
know that's that's that'sinteresting because
on the flip side it's interestingwhen we say
that there's no story.
You know there's there'salso no danger
there's no stakes I I becauseI see this from
people that I followa lot
of writers and alsothis.
(21:05):
L. Aileen van der VeldenI mean they're from
the industry so if youcan actually
incorporate and put instory using AI tools
that's what a lot ofthe future.
That's what that's whatthey think a lot of
the future is going tobe so what happens if
you put stories and creatorsusing these
(21:25):
tools that can be morecost effective that's
that might be whatthey're
trying to accomplishhere.
Yeah and I do think thatthat's probably how
it will be used I thinkit will be used as a
tool as an assist and Iknow writers who use
it now as a tool but Idon't think it
replaces I don't thinkit replaces human
writers and I don't thinkit replaces actors.
(21:48):
Yeah yeah ultimately yeahI agree with that I
agree with that on theactor side Lisa
Zimbetti casting directorthat a lot of us
know in L.A. workingfor years.
She made a great noteshe put a post on
Instagram about this thedeadline article
called Tilly Norwood andactor a actor now it
(22:11):
uses less words for a clickbaitheadline so
naturally they are callingthese people AI
actors just like theyare calling it AI
artists I mean there'sjust no easier way to
call it that and Lisa Zimbettitook umbridge
stop calling them actorsactors are humans.
We need to draw thoselines two thousand
(22:33):
twenty three was a blinkaway I mean it to be
or I mean to be honest itprobably feels like
eons away a lot ofpeople forget.
All this stuff was faultand negotiated in
our contracts and we weeasily forget we were
fighting how to regulateAI and these quote
unquote syntheticperformers
because that's whatthey are.
(22:54):
In this contract languagethey are supposed
to warn sag any ofany studios.
I think it's technicallya and PTP but
there's a tricky line therebecause we have
NDA is up the wazoo theyare supposed to warn
the union when they're workingwith synthetic
performers they are supposedto make official
(23:14):
declarations hey we justmade a you know Tom
Cruise two point oh we'vebeen cooking him up
in the lab we're supposedto let you know.
Because that's what wenegotiated so this is
happening right now wheresure enough there's
a handful of people whoare learning us to
the situation I think it'sit's it's for good
point and by the way weare going to go back
(23:34):
to negotiationsnext year.
Yeah God that was quickI know right.
Yeah well I mean there'sthree more years of
seeing what the possibilitiesare too so
maybe that is a good thingyou know like it
because a lot of peopleweren't happy with
the AI provisions like Seanlike we talked to
wasn't happy aboutthe AI
(23:55):
provisions in the inthe in the new.
Yeah that's a greatpoint we
have seen enoughnow we can.
We could lie to ourselvesand say yeah and I
you know I know that you'refairly optimistic
about this but the morethat we talk about it
and we actually seewhat what's really
cooking we can honestlysay okay this is what
I'm worried about thisis what I'm not
(24:15):
worried about but I don'twant like a lot of
what this podcast is isfinding interesting
things to talk about butalso can I every
week can I not be anidiot like I'm just
hopefully saying
something day everyday exactly.
Exactly for some peopleevery day can I not
for some for some peopleevery day but my
(24:36):
point is is hey we'renot always gonna be
right but in two threefive years I want to
look back on this podcastand and say hey we
weren't completely fooledby what was coming
around the corner andwe could honestly
assess this is what we'rethis is what we're
working with this is whatwe're up against
and and this is what'shappening so I feel
(24:58):
like this is we see whatthey want to do.
Whether they have the technologyto do it is
is you know ofa debate.
Yeah yeah I thought sogood point actually
yeah because I want tolook back on this and
go remember the time
before way mosttook over.
And we had free will cleandrinking water
exactly so yeah thisis this is a time
(25:20):
capsule if you will theLisa's and buddy post
was was really spot on andI think we need to
remember and sadly remindeveryone hey
they're not ai actors.
We're actually just codeand and you know
numbers you know peoplepeople let's just
remember that yeah butI'm glad people like
Lisa's and Betty are comingout and speaking
(25:40):
out against that
because it's likeit's mental.
Yeah and she seems I wentto a workshop with
her one time she seemsreally cool oh that's
cool people like her justnice people like
her just yeah I've alwaysliked her you know
now we talk about the
Lionsgate a collaboration.
They collaborate with theI start up runway
(26:01):
and it just came out thispast week maybe two
weeks that it's coming toa halt I don't know
if they can did they justrealized hey guys I
don't know if our entirelibrary just
throwing it into ai isgoing to create all
the amazing content wewere hoping it to be.
(26:23):
Like you know these arejust the two sides of
it where sure you mighthave Tilly Norwood so
you some shoes on you knowon zappos someday
but for Lionsgate to churnout a you know
five hundred John Wickmovies maybe that was
a little too ambitiousfor them.
(26:44):
Well you know I don'twant I don't blame
studios and companieslike Lionsgate
exploring that becausewhat else is
everybody's doing it soso what do you do I
can see why theydo you
know I understandthat.
If they and even betterif they walk away
from it if they you knowif they take a look
and go you know what nothat's you know I
don't know I don't knowenough about I don't
(27:05):
know enough about thisparticular situation
or what happened there atall so I don't know
what the reasoning isbut I understand why
studios do it because there'sa fear I'm sure
there's a fear thereto you know there's
there's a fear of notdoing it because
everybody else is doingit so and like
Lionsgate have a greattrack record as well
you know they've got sothey've been doing a
great they did theydid a
great job this pastweek.
(27:25):
Forever let's see whatdid they they oh the
studio Lionsgate was behindthe studio and
they just had a huge pushthey throw us a
behind the rainmakerthey're one of the
production companies onthat's Lionsgate TV
so like nice but I knowbut they apart from
that they've like a tonof obviously I mean
John Wick among many othersand so just for a
(27:47):
little context we're notgoing to dive too
much into the into theweeds here but sure
enough it's not enough
content it justimagine.
The entire Lionsgate librarywas not enough
content to train this AImodel so that's one
thing so they need theyneed us they're
(28:07):
desperate for you I allthe writers talented
writers all the realhuman producers
filmmakers they actuallystill need a lot
more content anda I is not
going to replacethat need.
Oh ownership still is anissue Lionsgate had
rights to the the propertiesyet it was
tricky with likenessesright likeness rights
(28:28):
who controls what so thankGod hey you're
playing by the rules becauseyou realize hey
there are some legal restrictionshere if you
just jam everyone in a
blender and then ontop of it.
The technology is stilla little short
because how do you controlperformance and
environment and then alsoin animation to
(28:49):
actually expect one companyor one model to
do all that it's it'sa lot so they had to
kick the tires I don'tknow if it completely
I mean it takes it takesguts to admit hey
this is this is fallingshort but I think
they had to put it out
there that hey thisis not.
What we were hoping thatit was going to be
(29:12):
and also you know it iskind of comforting
not going to lie it's kindof comforting for
the real filmmakersout there.
Yeah absolutely I thinkI got to be fine. Cut
to cut to the end ofthe world.
I also want to throw thisout there because I
actually completely missedout on this I
(29:33):
don't know when this happenedso the upcoming
Moana live action Disneytried to do it.
Disney tried to do a deepfake of the rock.
He had a character inthe original.
They spent 18 months
trying to deep fakethe rock.
Okay the rock Dwayne Johnsonagreed to it.
It was all part of it.
(29:54):
It was all good to go.
It was not up tosnuff.
They canceled it.
It's not going tohappen.
I don't know when thiswhen this actually
came out but youknow this
is connected to thatstory.
They tried.
Disney tried whetherit was trying to be
under the wrapsor not.
I never heard anyonetalk
about it but thereyou go.
Disney was tryingto do it.
They try to do it fora year and a half.
(30:15):
A year and a half topay the rock.
Surely the money thatthey put into
developing that and tryingto get perfected
like just get therock.
Exactly.
Surely that's morecost effective.
I don't know whathe charges.
I'd say it's a lot.
Exactly.
And you know thisis also a
snippet into what'sin the future.
They tried tosuperimpose.
A.I. generate hisface on top
of his long time stuntdouble.
And there you go.
(30:36):
So it's a bigquestion.
Speaking of stunt.
I have a stunt double storyI met when I was
in Prague many manyyears ago.
Like 2001 ish.
Sean Connery was shootingthe League of
Extraordinary Gentlemenin Prague at the time
and his stunt doublecome down
and drink in the pubwith us.
And he was such alovely fella.
He just seemed delightedto have people to
(30:56):
kind of hang out withand chat to.
They usually have the greatyou know you got
to have a really goodattitude spirit.
You know you're backingup the star and a lot
of times you don't getthe credit.
You've got to have agood you know good
character and a good humilityto do that job.
You're taking allthe hits.
Absolutely.
So I think that's Ithink that's good.
So these are hotyou know
(31:18):
pressing A.I. bits fromthe headlines.
We have some that areyou know some people
are some people think area little optimistic
and some that are you knowunfortunately for
Lionsgate a littlenot so great.
But this is just a you knowreal time look at
where the industryis right now.
(31:40):
Well there you go.
That's our that'sour episode.
Let's do Hidden Gems.
I had to be honest I mightbe really behind.
But because I am kind ofall over the place
as far as paying rent.
I am paying rentby the
way so do not worryabout me.
But but back in the dayI would always be
(32:02):
physically sending a checkbecause they're
old school they don'ttake direct deposit
they don't take any ofthose things they
literally take onlyphysical checks.
One thing I realizedthat my bank and
probably most banks actuallycan send a
physical check first classbusiness class
boom right on the dot.
You don't have to worryabout anything and
(32:22):
you just have to do itahead of time.
And that's like that'sso much better than
prewriting checks or memailing through USPS.
That's that's onething.
But wait so how doyou do that.
You do just say on an agreedday every month.
Exactly.
You go send exactlyto my land.
So say for example my
bank who I'm veryhappy with.
I bank with so far.
They will.
(32:43):
They'll give you someso far points.
I don't know whatso far
points mean but whateverthey can.
You can organize a regularpayment like you
have to do it like10 12
days in advancethough.
But a regular payment sendingthat rent check
and then boom first classgoes to your goes
to whoever's mailboxevery time.
(33:03):
Now what I just
realized was if I'mdoing that.
I what I just realizedwas I just heard of
the built B.I.L.T. creditcard built is a
credit card that was allowingpeople to rack
up awards pointsrewards
points when you'repaying rent.
So you could rent youcould use it if you
(33:24):
could use a credit cardyou could use it.
And you could rack up pointsand it was a way
that everyone's payingrent and then you
could rack up rewards youcould get a little
cash back it's whereeveryone wins.
Now my company does notmy landlord does not
take rent does not takecredit card but I can
sign up for a builtcredit card
(33:45):
and just have themsend checks.
So I actually can receivepoints for paying
rent every month and ifyou're in L.A. you're
in a big city where youknow rent is raising
for basically everyone acrossthe country and
maybe the world atthis point.
But we can get alittle rewards
for our rent paymentsevery month.
(34:07):
And they go. I'm literallythat's all my to
do list. I'm literallysigning up for one.
All right. I'm into that.There you go.
My hidden gem.
I'll tell you what thisI don't know if I'm
wholeheartedlyrecommending
this but I have beendoing this.
A friend of a friend turnedme on to this.
(34:27):
Now I don't know if I recommendbecause I've
only been doing it fora few weeks and I
don't know if it's goingto drive me insane
or if it's a goodidea.
But he talked about justtracking all the
food eats people talk aboutmacros which kind
of turns me off peoplelike track my macros.
Anyway I was like all rightI'm going to do
it for a few weeks andjust see how it is.
So he told me about thisup called carbon
(34:48):
which you do have to payfor. I think it's
like 12 quid a monthor something.
But you like it has mostof this stuff that
you put it you can eitherscan the barcode
and whatever and it tellsyou you know all
the different nutritionalinformation.
Now again it's kind ofa pain in the ass but
what it did for me wasit kind of showed me
it revealed a bit moreabout the truth about
(35:10):
what I eat day to day becauseI don't really
pay attention youknow to
what specificallyI'm eating.
I'll try and try and eathealthy or whatever
but it's amazing even caloriewise how many
calories you can rackup without even
thinking about it like
just you don't evennotice.
So it gave me an awarenessfood. Now for
someone like me I thinkthat's probably a bad
thing because I get
kind of obsessiveabout it.
(35:33):
But even just using itfor a few weeks it
gave me a better handleon what I eat day to
day and how to like shiftmy diet a little
bit so I can actually eathealthier and not
convince myselfof eating
healthy or not eatjust like filler.
But anyway again the appis called Carbon. I
don't know if I'd recommendthat people do
(35:53):
that. It was just interestingto me to see.
I've never really hada handle on how I'm
eating how I'm actuallyeating
versus how I thinkI'm eating.
Oh there's nothing wrongwith that. You know
it tracks your like yeahtracks your like you
know your fat and sugarand carbohydrates and
all that protein andall that stuff.
So but you know and itgives you I picked
(36:14):
balanced diet like I wantto eat a balanced
diet and it tells you likeif you go over and
that. But again Ican get too
obsessed with thatkind of stuff.
So anyway if you wantto just know what
you're eating just havea better idea. Maybe
one of those apps. I don'tthink it has to be
that one. Yeah I agree.There's probably
enough that youcan just
it's probably ahandful.
Yeah. That sounds like adecent one. Good for
you. There's nothing wrongwith a little a
(36:35):
little data and a littleclarity. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. As long as it doesn't you knowinterfere with your enjoyment.
Interfere with your enjoymentof eating as
well which is you know that'salways that's a
danger to. Yeah. Yeah.Yeah. Good for good
for you. I agree. I'venever been a tracker
but I there is a lot ofbenefit in seeing
what you're whatyou're
(36:55):
actually you knowtaking in.
So yeah that's a big step.The fact that you
actually started using theapp I mean it says
a lot. You started usingit. I think as I get
older like I get a bitmore conscious of it
like when I was young Iused to I never such
a fucking massive
appetite as I like Ieat so much.
If I unchecked I'll justkeep you know what I
mean. I have a huge appetite.And I was out
but I was just burnedit off because I was
(37:16):
active or whatever and Iwas younger. I was a
get older I get like theroad has narrowed
quite a bit. Yeah the metabolismslows down.
Yeah. Yeah. And I just payattention to how I
eat and like so I howI live now is very
different to the way Ilived 10 years ago 15
years ago. Good for you.Yeah sometimes you
got to be a little morefocused. This kind of
preserve you know this beautiful visage. HeyI'm not sure what you're talking about.
(37:38):
There's nothing wrongwith that dude. If I
was not an actor or oncamera. Oh good God.
The things that you knowI would be eating so
much more. It's funny thoughbecause you know
like you know your friendswho are actors and
your friends who are notactors like this
often America. I thinkthere's a there's a
vanity that's that comeswith this profession
(37:59):
that like you know whereit where I look at
my friends or actors andI'm like yeah a lot
of them put a lot of workinto how they look
and I you know I understand it becauseyou have to look at your face.
I'm a man because youhave to look at
yourself all the time notsaying that other
people don't but I donotice it among you
know 100 percent. WellI mean here's the
thing it's like on topof it everyone's a
celebrity on the online.So so like add to
(38:22):
the vanity of every influencerevery social
media everyone cares aboutwhat they look
like now which is why wehave filters and we
have makeup and thankGod our industry is
encouraging us to be healthierto look better
because I would be offthe rails if I could.
I want to think that youknow the creative
(38:43):
life is actually keepingme alive to be
honest anyway. All rightso that's it. That's
our show everyone. Seeyou next week. We got
a very special guest comingup and we will
see you there. Seeyou then.
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