Apple TV’s “Chief of War” Brandon Finn talks Going Toe to Toe with Jason Momoa

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(03:03):
If you haven't seen the show, Jason
Momoa is almost completely naked,
last showing a shark.
That scene in particular, that
sequence, let's be honest, nobody's
looking at the shark.
Nobody's looking at J.P. C. We all
know what everybody's looking at.
Jason Momoa is the one person where
I'm like, yeah, I buy that.
Yeah.

(03:23):
What we were told was episodes one
and episodes two were going to be
strictly in Hawaiian
language.
And I thought, okay, that's fine.
Fast forward a couple of months
later, I'm looking at all the
scripts for the episodes
and I'm thinking, oh, I'm not
speaking any English.
I'm going to
****
bricks.
I was in full panic mode.
The story itself is very much the

(03:44):
story that is Game of Thrones.
This actually happened.
It's a huge win for the state of
Hawaii, let alone
the kingdom of Hawaii.
Chief of War will always be the
epitome of having Hawaiian language
in film and TV for
generations to come.
Hollywood in a way people understand. I'm E-Kan Soong.

(04:05):
And I'm Rían Sheehy Kelly

(04:43):
of the history of Hawaii.
Brandon's a part of it, and he
tells us of this journey
of just being a hustling
actor to series regular,
next to Jason Momoa.
Cliff Curtis.
You hear the ins and outs, the
audition process,
what it was like shooting
in Hawaii and New Zealand
for nine months.
That was brilliant, too.

(05:03):
I really enjoyed
getting into the nitty gritty
of jumping from a guest
star to a series regular.
Not only did he add on 20 pounds,
he's rival opposite Jason Momoa,
not intimidating at all.
He also learned the
Hawaiian native language, Olelo.
Beautiful
pronunciation there, thanks.

(05:23):
I've been doing my research.
Anyway, so we talk
all about that and more.
Sit back and enjoy this episode
with Brandon Finn.
All right, I'm ready.
For audio listeners, Brandon is
looking very sharp,
already outdressing us, so we do
need to point that out.
Meanwhile, Rian's wearing
basketball shorts.
That's not a true game.
I'm joking, I'm joking.

(05:44):
Rian's wearing buttons,
Rian's wearing buttons.
I'm wearing
athleisure, very comfortable,
but either way, you look great.
You were saying that this is the
last of your press tour,
and we're so happy
to have you on here.
Thank you so much.
The show just came out.
You finally get to
see everyone's reaction.
This is an exciting
time for a lot of actors
and for you to be able to come on.

(06:06):
This is great,
because we wanna hear
what this journey has been.
We're so thrilled
to talk about this.
I was just gonna say, it's a
beautiful reminder
that you've worked so hard for such
a long period of time
that when the moment finally comes,
it's like it's there,
and you can't believe it,
and then you blink
twice, and then it's gone.
(Rian laughs)
You know? Yeah.

(06:28):
This premiere that we had in Hawaii
for "Chief of War"
streaming on Apple TV
Plus happened on July 18th,
and now it's October 1st.
And I swear, it came like a blur.
Have your own journey as an actor,
and it's a lot of ups
and downs and mostly downs,
and then you finally
get to a place where,

(06:48):
for me at least, it was my first
series regular job,
and we started shooting
in January, I'm sorry,
September of 2022.
We, yeah. Wow.
Wow. That's when we first
started shooting "Chief of War."
Oh, I didn't realize.
Okay, okay, so I wanna dive deep
into all of this stuff,
but before we get there,
"Chief of War" on Apple TV,

(07:10):
I believe the official
premiere was August 1st,
so even your Hawaii premiere was
even before that,
August 1st, the finale, it was
episodes every week,
so the finale just
happened a couple weeks ago
in late September.
Viewers are great,
Jason Momola co-created,
he also directed some, he's acting,
obviously he's starring in it.

(07:31):
Cliff Curtis, one of
my favorite actors.
Love Cliff Curtis.
It's an epic show, and
your role is kind of like
this rival badass to Jason Momola.
It's a breakout role, and it just
all is coming together.
Before we get into it, you know,
because I was watching the show in
the lead-up to this,
and you've such a brilliant
presence on screen.

(07:51):
You've a wonderful
presence and a stillness,
and as a real, you have so much
status in the show,
and so much for your
first series regular role,
incredible job, I just
wanna say, incredible.
Thank you so much,
that was such a beautiful,
I feel like I have
nothing to say now.
That was such a
beautiful, beautiful setup
and introduction for me, thank you.

(08:13):
Let's start in the beginning.
When did you start
acting, where did you grow up?
You know, obviously we're friends,
you know, a lot of mutual friends,
all the guys over
at Graham Shields.
I don't know too much of your
acting life before that, so.
I was born in Wailuku, Maui,
and I don't remember much about
being on Maui Island,
but when I was about two years old,

(08:33):
moved to Oahu where
my grandparents were,
and my initial
introduction to any arts,
if you consider martial arts,
the performing
arts was martial arts.
My dad signed me
up at four years old
into Karate at the time,
and martial arts was a big
influence on my life

(08:55):
at a very, very early age.
Now, I didn't connect the dots to
way later in my own life.
I loved film, I loved movies.
I remember the first
movie I ever watched.
They would have reruns in the
theaters in Hawaii
of "Star Wars, A New
Hope," episode four.
Yeah. Yeah.
And that was the first thing I ever
saw in a movie theater

(09:17):
was this menacing
black figure, Darth Vader,
coming through the white background
on the ship with Princess Leia.
I think I might've been
like six or seven years old
when I watched that.
Fast forward, when I
got into high school,
I was trying to fill
my fine arts credit,
and I didn't wanna do photography.
I couldn't play an

(09:38):
instrument to save my life.
The only other option was this
theater 101 class.
And so I took it just out of
curiosity, not really--
And that's in high school.
That was in high school.
I went to a high school called
Punahou High School.
It's the same high
school, not to get political,
that Barack Obama
ended up attending
and graduated from. Oh, cool.
Yeah.

(09:59):
And yeah, had the initial spark hit
me in high school
during the theater program.
There was something
about being on stage
and sharing a story,
bringing that story to life
that I found immensely attractive.
I was just drawn to it.
Sadly, in college, I didn't

(10:19):
necessarily pursue it at all.
I ran into some financial problems
where I didn't have
money in my bank account.
I didn't really have a job.
So I ended up going
to Chapman University
in Orange County for a
semester, dropped out,
moved back home to Hawaii.
I started working at a restaurant,
local restaurant chain
in Hawaii called Zippy's.

(10:40):
I worked there for like six months.
Both my mom and dad to this day
work as flight attendants for
Hawaiian Airlines.
At the time, this
was 2011 into 2012.
They both suggested, hey, maybe
apply for the airline
as a flight attendant.
Perhaps that'll
get you on your feet.
You can figure it out from there
once you have a steady income.

(11:01):
Now I did that, I
got hired in 2018.
Hawaiian Airlines has two bases,
one in Honolulu,
one in Los Angeles.
And so I base
transferred to Los Angeles.
And it really freed up my schedule
because the only
flights out of Los Angeles
for Hawaiian Airlines was literally
from LAX to Honolulu
and then Honolulu back
to LAX, they call it.

(11:21):
It's like the death march
because you're doing
two flights in one day.
And let's be honest,
people in Los Angeles
flying to Hawaii
and back, the worst.
I knew it, I knew it.
No problem, say it.
You know, the worst.
The only one that maybe tops that
is San Diego to Maui.

(11:43):
We don't have to get into that
because now we're
getting off-topic.
But I would, so I did
that and on my days off,
I would study at
whatever acting studios
I can find myself access to.
So I ended up initially at a place
called Ivana Chubix
off Nelworlds, I'm sure you guys
have heard of it.
I know Ivana Chubix.
Yeah, it was nice to find a place

(12:05):
that gave you live feedback and a
place to practice.
And fumble, truth be told,
literally fumble, figure it out.
There I met, I consider
this guy my brother now.
There I met an
individual named Davis Cameron.

(12:25):
Oh, I had a feeling
it's gonna be him.
Yeah, it was Davis Cameron.
And Davis, through
our friendship says,
"Hey, I'm gonna go
check out this place
"called Graham Shields Studio.
"Maybe, you know, if it's something
that interests you,
"maybe come along."
So I ended up following him there
and through Graham Shields Studio,
the specificity,
specifically with self-tapes,
because now this is the era

(12:47):
that we're living
in with auditions.
That's where I began to
find some real traction.
And one thing led to another,
I ended up booking a job with
Hawaii Five O years ago.
That's how I got,
I had to join SAG.
That led to Magna PI,
and then it led to
Fantasy Island, Three Women,

(13:08):
and then lo and behold, this
audition from Jason Momoa
and company called Chief of War,
talking about the unification story
of the Hawaiian Islands
and its history came through.
And I find myself
auditioning initially
for Jason's brother.
So if you guys have watched the

(13:28):
show, Siwa Ikulele,
he's the guy that plays Na, he's
got the big hair.
That's the role I
initially auditioned for.
Interesting.
I think that, yeah.
I think what ended up
happening to make it easier,
I think they sent
like this group of males
from this age and above one
audition for one character.

(13:50):
And then they sent males
from this age and below
this audition and they kind of just
filtered it through
from there, just to make it easier
for casting, I think,
because they can
kind of pick and choose.
And it's funny you say that,
because if I didn't know
anything about the show,
I would have thought
that you would have been
like Jason Momoa's
nice younger brother,

(14:10):
because you're so
friendly and nice and like chill.
And then I realized
that you're kind of like
this rival badass with this Mohawk.
And I was like, oh,
and almost didn't
recognize you at first,
but that's kind of a
testament to your acting
and this performance.
I take it as a
compliment, I really do.
Because that's not
who I am in real life.
If I was that in real life, I think

(14:31):
it'd be a problem.
(laughing) Yeah, Hawaii Airlines
would not have you on
if that was you in real life.
(laughing)
No.
Before this
audition, so all of these,
so Magnum PI, Hawaii Five-O,
were they all, were
they co-stars, guest stars?
Like what was the...
I ended up having a
co-star for Hawaii Five-O.

(14:52):
Do not, for our
friendship and our relationship,
do not look up what the scene is,
because it's trash,
it's absolutely trash.
I was still trying
to figure it out.
(laughing)
And the only thing
that scene served
was that it forced me to join SAG.
Tell us what the role is.
The guy's name was Dylan.

(15:13):
And apparently I beat
up Megan Rath's brother.
And Megan, Megan Rath was one of
the series regulars
on Hawaii Five-O, and so she comes
into the restaurant
and she beats me up.
And I don't have a
problem being beat up.
I have a problem with
what I was doing on screen.
It was way too much.

(15:35):
I thought it looked
like I'm doing theater,
and I'm trying to emote
emotion to the back row.
It's just way too much.
Yeah.
It was.
This is your first co-star.
It's all right.
Funny story, even prior to that,
I tell this story on a podcast I
did with Cliff Curtis.
What initially made me SAG

(15:55):
eligible was I got booked
on a feature film with Goldie Hawn
and Amy Schumer called "Snatched."
Wow.
Oh, I think, yeah, she played,
Goldie Hawn was her mother.
They played like a
mother-daughter thing?
Yeah, apparently good enough to get
the one-liner audition booked.

(16:17):
Not good enough to make the film
because I got cut from the film.
Yeah, and I told my
whole family about it.
Like, "Hey, I'm
gonna bring this film."
And it's like, lo and
behold, I'm not even there.
It was so, it was
so heart-wrenching.
So my journey has been like,
usually that's the
end of the story.
He tried, that's it.

(16:38):
Changed my career now.
Brandon, real quick,
what years, what years?
2017 was snatched.
In 2019, Hawaii Five-O was out.
Okay.
And then I believe 2021,
I got an episode on
Magnum PI as a guest star.
Pretty nice.
Yeah, "Three Woman" was booked

(17:01):
and then "Fantasy
Island" was booked.
I think "Fantasy Island" came out
before "Three Women" did.
And "Three Women" was on stars.
Which was like, it's great,
but also I feel like not a lot of
people have stars, you know?
Yeah, it's tricky with these
platforms and channels.
You never know.
It's funny,
because I got booked on
a stars show last year,
and then the character got cut, and
I was devastated.

(17:22):
And it got cut like the day before
I was due to fly out
to shoot at Chicago.
And it was like,
it was like, "Oh, you're joking."
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It got cut before you
even made it to six.
And I was devastated,
because I felt like it
was my fault somehow.
And they're like, "No, it was like,
"it's just a big rewrite."
And I just cut.
It's hard not to feel that way.
I get it.
Yeah.
It was a big learning
experience to like go,

(17:43):
"Okay, there's nothing I could have
done differently."
I think most actors have experience
getting on the cutting room floor
or something getting cut the not.
So, yeah.
But you went through that like
right at the beginning.
I did.
And there was a first thing that
ever happened to me.
And, you know, looking back on it,
it's probably best

(18:03):
that that happened first.
You know?
Yeah.
Somewhere further down the line.
But yeah, it was such a heart
wrenching moment.
And I told myself,
"Well, at least
there's a strong chance
something like
that never happened."
Well, you know, we'd
never say never again.
(laughing)
I gotta do something that won't
happen again, you know?

(18:24):
It's not where it happened.
Maybe the universe
speak for itself.
It already got out of the sister.
I jumped that box.
I don't know what we're
doing here doing this.
We don't have to
revisit that, you know?
Let's cut to Graham
Shields, self tapes.
You're feeling
good about self-tapes.
Everything is moving to self-tapes.
Can you talk about how

(18:45):
your process has changed,
what you were kind of
learning at the studio,
and then kind of
getting into the chief of war.
Yeah, the specificity
with what I looked like
in that 16 by nine
frame became paramount.
And I realized,

(19:05):
initially I was such a,
I was very anti-self tape,
because I felt like you've now
taken me out of the room
and in a room I can
give you all the energy,
all the nuance, all the charisma
that I carry as myself
before the audition even begins.
And I always felt like

(19:25):
that was such a deterrent
or a discouragement at the time.
And then slowly my
mentality on it changed
because I realized the technicality
that we're now
addressing with self-tapes,
especially in film and TV,
are 100% applicable to
what you're gonna do on set.

(19:47):
And even here, I
think Econ and Reem here,
your faces are kind
of on my screen here,
but if truth be told, I gotta look
kind of here instead.
And then with Graham's rules,
there's always source
to source to source,
action, action, action.
And now the
specificity of Econ's here now.
Okay, now I'm gonna deliver the

(20:08):
line here instead.
And then if I lose
my eye line there
and I get lost in a
different thought,
perhaps like my
mother or my father,
I'll just stay there for a second
and then come back to Econ.
And it's crazy because you feel
like you're cheating yourself
and then you realize
film and TV is all cheating.
It's all.

(20:29):
You guys are not even looking at
you because he can't.
He physically can't.
There's all kinds of grips and gear
and camera equipment in the way.
And so that being said,
before I get off too
much into the tangent there,
I changed my mentality and I
realized like, okay,
let me learn how best

(20:50):
to use the technical,
have that meet what I already bring
and then put that into
the work with Self-Hitch.
That is brilliant.
You're absolutely right.
And hearing you say that and having
seen you on the show,
that absolutely tracks.
Like watching your, like I said,

(21:10):
like your stillness
and your status on camera
and your skill in that as well,
not to mention performance,
but it really looks like you've
been doing it forever.
Oh man.
It's so powerful and it really
struck me like very early on.
I was like, wow, that's so great.
And you're absolutely right.
Cause we were talking about this,

(21:31):
the difference
between sort of like people
who are so technically aware,
like Tom Cruise, for example,
is a master technician who
understands the camera
and who understands how film works.
There's a real power in that.
And to hear you say
marrying what you bring
to that technical
awareness is phenomenal.
I think that's a brilliant lesson

(21:51):
for people to learn.
I never wanna sound
like I'm preaching,
but I will share my own experiences
if people are willing to listen.
And that being said,
I love the technical.
I love being as
specific as possible,
especially with camera coverage,
what lens we're using,
how tight we are, how wide back we
are with the master shot.

(22:13):
And also I never
want any individual
to lose sight of
their own intuition.
Because I think the intuition
is truly what makes
the individual pop.
And so it's always an emphasis on
blending the technical
with who you are
authentically, genuinely.

(22:34):
Because everybody can be technical.
Everybody can
learn to be technical.
And in fact, I think
that's what helps people
start booking jobs is
being more technical,
being more specific.
I've heard this from a
lot of friends of mine
that I've made, specifically my
friend James Udom,
who plays Tony in "Chief of War."
He's a Yale School of Drama
graduate, so is Graham Shules.

(22:56):
And I remember
James sharing with me
that some of his
classmates would get upset at him
because James would
double down on who he was.
And what Yale School of
Drama was teaching them
was to kind of abandon
who you are in so few words.
And he would share with me that if

(23:17):
I abandon who I am,
I'm losing what only I can bring.
I'm not saying I
can't be technical,
I can't do this, I can't do that.
But I cannot
completely abandon who I am.
Now what's the difference between
me or the guy next to me
or the thousand others
that are gonna audition
for the same role?

(23:37):
Yeah, and then on top of it,
I don't wanna take us on a tangent,
but what's the
difference between us and AI?
It's not only are there
gonna be a million actors,
there's gonna be a million AI
versions out there
that are gonna be--
So I think that's a great point.
I do wanna go back to,
so we're gonna get into the
auditioning process
for Chief of War,

(23:57):
but just real quick,
your mentality
shift for self tapes,
what were the numbers?
Because you booked
Snatch, was that in person?
Eventually most of
these jobs, Magnum PI,
I'm assuming was self tape,
most of these jobs
were actually self tape
than in person, right?
Yeah, the only one that I
actually booked in person
was Snatched.

(24:19):
That was the only one where I
actually came into the room,
oh, you know, I take it back,
Snatched and Hawaii Five-O.
And Hawaii Five-O,
that aired in 2019.
And so being in the room
was still a relevant thing
at that time.
Magnum PI, three women,
Fantasy Island, Chief of

(24:41):
War were all self tapes,
Zoom callbacks, and in
fact, I did a chemistry read
as a callback for three women
with the female lead
that I had the scenes with,
which I thought
was, you know, same.
I still had the
same anti-Zoom thought.
It's just like, how are we gonna do

(25:01):
a chemistry read over Zoom?
It doesn't make any sense.
And I got over that, obviously.
Yeah, yeah, I still got it.
And with that in particular,
I realized, yeah,
you've done the homework.
Obviously, they liked what you did
because they saw your initial tape.
Just abandon any of those
preconceived decisions,

(25:23):
choices I've made,
and just listen to her.
And I think what
ended up helping me too
was that I was first up.
We found out I was first up.
And so she was doing
things and she was physically,
I remember she was
physically indicating
that she was listening to what I
was saying to her.
And I remember
stopping what I was saying,

(25:43):
and I started laughing
because of the things
she was doing physically.
And I really think that helped.
Because I don't know
what other people did.
And truth be told, I shouldn't care
what other people did.
But I remember
taking the time to notice
what she was doing and
then acknowledging it
and then going on with the scene

(26:04):
wherever we picked it up.
That's wonderful.
On that, just so everyone knows,
Three Women is on
Star is Betty Gilpin,
Shailene Woodley, Blair Underwood.
So that's an incredible cast.
It's funny you say that because,
and I don't wanna dive too much
into the weeds here,
I hate going first
for the audition.

(26:24):
Oh, wow. So the fact that you,
like, I mean,
we're not here to break
any actors' superstitions or myths,
but I remember, now I remember
when we went back into the office,
I remember I
always hated going first
because I assumed, and
this might be hubris,
I assumed they're working,
they're trying to get up to speed.

(26:46):
The producers,
directors, or writers
are trying to figure
out what they want.
And by the eighth, ninth time,
they're gonna be like,
okay, this is what we want.
This is what we
want the scene to be.
And then whoever is at
an eighth, ninth time,
they're like, okay,
if he can do that,
he or she can do that,
they're gonna nail it,
they're gonna book it, we know
exactly what we want.
And that's when it happens.

(27:07):
I hear you on that.
It's hard, it's hard,
especially when we were
in that period of time where you
would physically go
and now you see the
lineup and you're like,
this feels like a weird fight.
This feels like a weird, like,
we're all gonna get in a ring,
we're starting bouncing
heads off the floor here.
It's weird, it's a weird feeling.

(27:28):
And then the head games with
positioning and going first.
And then if you're not first,
now you hear people
hitting beats and marks
and you're like, should I do that?
I don't wanna do that, I've already
made the decision.
(laughing)
I don't wanna hear that.
I don't wanna hear that.
I wanna go first.
I wanna go first, because I want
that to be the first time
that they see whatever I'm doing.

(27:48):
And I don't want it
to be like a first.
And they're like, oh,
this guy did it before him.
But he's so not this person.
I'd rather not
listen to any of that,
just go first, to be honest.
Yeah, there you go, there you go.
Okay, so let's talk
about "Chief of War."
How many auditions,
assuming that the first time
you said was for the brother role.
So how many self-tapes was it?

(28:08):
How much time passed between
callback and audition?
What happened?
The initial tape happened,
and I auditioned for the role Nahi,
which was Jason
Momoa's youngest brother.
The initial
breakdown for that character
was that he was supposed
to be the young hothead
who hadn't had as

(28:29):
much war experience
as his two older brothers.
And so he had something to prove.
And I tapped into that,
and I remember maybe about two or
three weeks later,
they said, hey,
we'd love your tape.
We'd like to do a Zoom callback
with the producers.

(28:49):
And so it was
Justin Chun, Doug Jung,
our showrunner, Thomas
Paz-Sibit, our writer.
And I did the notes,
and three weeks go by,
I think, it's not me.
I get it, I'm five
feet nine inches tall,
Jason's six four,
Greek God, it's whatever.

(29:10):
And we get an email saying, hey,
Jason's watched the tapes.
He thinks the role that you
currently audition for
is not gonna work,
but we'd like your work.
We'd love to give you a different
role to audition for.
And so I got a
different Zoom callback.

(29:31):
I didn't have to
send in another tape.
I just went to another Zoom
callback with different sides,
different character.
And now I'm auditioning
for the Prince of Maui,
Prince Kalanikou Pule.
And Justin Chun, I remember, was a
big fan of the work.
So was Thomas Paz-Sibit.
I did it seven or eight times,

(29:53):
and Justin would walk me through.
And what's beautiful
about the relationship
with Justin Chun was he
spoke to me as an actor,
because he was an actor himself.
Yeah, I'm aware of him.
I know his work.
Yeah, he's in this space
where he's directing now,
and I love that for him.
And he finds so much

(30:13):
more freedom in that.
But the fact that he
could use vernacular
that I was going to
understand as an actor
was incredibly helpful.
They wanted to make sure
the actor could portray
the relationship
between father and son.
I think that was a huge, huge key
with making sure they
got the right person.

(30:34):
And I find out later,
maybe about a month later,
that I get network approved.
And my ignorant, innocent mind had
no idea what that meant.
I said, "What does that mean?
"Did I get the job?
"Did I not get the job?"
She goes, "You have the job.
"They're just waiting
for the contracts now."
And I started crying.
I started crying.

(30:55):
This was June, June
2nd, I think, of 2022.
Yeah. Yeah.
Just crazy.
But more specificity with the
audition process itself,
talk about moving
pieces and this and that,
they initially had Cliff Curtis
playing that role.
Wait, the role that you did?

(31:16):
Yes, that was the initial-- Wow.
They had, and they
realized Cliff Curtis
being son to Tim Mueta Morrison,
who is AKA Boba Fett, Django Fett,
in the Star Wars franchise.
It's too close.
That's the dynamic duo that they
initially pitched.

(31:37):
And they realized
that it's not gonna work.
I think, let's see
if Cliff is interested
in playing this other villain from
a different island.
And he was very
much attracted to that.
And it was Cliff's idea,
from what I'm told
with Thomas Pothritt
and some of the other producers,
that Prince Kupule
should be a younger guy.
And then it just kinda
clicked in their mind,

(31:57):
okay, we got this
guy, Brandon Finn.
Brilliant. Yeah.
And so my work can
speak for itself,
and also the cards kinda have to
fold out correctly.
Absolutely.
It was this perfect, perfect setup
where I found a place
among this cast of legends
to share this story about the
Hawaiian Islands.

(32:19):
How brilliant.
Did you find that,
so stepping up to a
role of that magnitude
with everything involved there,
did that feel natural for you?
Was it daunting in any way?
Did you feel,
what were your thoughts going into
a role of that size?
Yeah, the scale of
which we were dealing with
was menacing at first.

(32:42):
It might sound cocky,
it might sound overly confident.
And truth be told,
I have the utmost
confidence in myself
with whatever scale it is.
And truthfully, I kinda had to with
Jason at the helm.
Let alone a guy like Cliff Curtis.
Cliff Curtis is insane.

(33:02):
Seriously, he's a good maniac.
Absolutely insane.
And he kinda walks this line
where you're not too
sure how method he goes.
Like, is it, is it not?
I think it is.
He's gonna throw the
kitchen sink at you,
and then he's gonna not
apologize for it after.
That's just the legend
that we're dealing with.

(33:23):
And so that being said,
I'm very much a
product of my environment.
If I'm surrounded by these
murderers, these killers,
I will do my part.
I didn't have any, I didn't have
any issue with that.
And I think that's a mentality that
we all need to have,
especially when we start
to get to that tear up.
You know, it's like, if
we're gonna make the move,
you gotta be ready for

(33:43):
that move regardless.
I will say what was
really, really nerve-wracking
was learning the Hawaiian language.
Oh, thank you, thank you.
I've talked about that.
I wanted to just chat about that, yeah.
I really wanted to.
Yeah, so how much did you know,
and how much did you,
how much did you know at the
audition process?
None. Oh my God.
Did you just

(34:04):
prefer, was the audition,
the audition was in English? No, the audition was
in English. What?
Thank the Lord Almighty. Okay.
The audition was in English,
and the initial thought was,
what we were told was,
episodes one and episodes two
were going to be strictly in
Hawaiian language.
And I thought, okay, that's fine.
And now, fast forward

(34:24):
a couple months later,
I'm looking at all the
scripts for the episodes,
and I'm thinking, oh, I'm not
speaking any English.
I'm gonna shit bricks.
Like literally, I
can't, I knew phrases.
I knew certain greetings because I
was a kid from Hawaii,
but I was never required to learn
more than a phrase,
a sentence, ever.

(34:44):
And the fact that
I was going to be,
not just speaking Hawaiian,
but also having conversations
and having to listen to Hawaiian
being spoken back to me,
it really, I think for the first
two to three weeks
of pre-production, I
was in full panic mode,
full panic mode.
And I couldn't do
anything other than address it

(35:08):
from morning to night,
as many times as I
could make the repetition.
That's what I was gonna do.
And that's initially what was the
biggest roadblock
in my journey on Chief of War.
Wow, because it's
funny, like there are,
because I was just reading up a
little bit about it,
because I didn't know a whole lot

(35:28):
about the Hawaiian language,
but there are parallels
between that and Irish.
The Irish language is
kind of a similar thing,
like where we have
to learn it in school,
everybody, it's
compulsory to learn in school.
It's our national language,
but it's not spoken very widely.
It's spoken in maybe,
like 2% of the population will be
fluent native Irish speakers.
And it's a language that was

(35:48):
suppressed as well,
like similar to Hawaiian,
it was suppressed when
the British took over,
and they ruled Ireland,
they tried to
suppress the language,
and now it's undergone
a sort of a resurgence.
I love that.
I mean, for obvious reasons,
I love that any
recipe in a language,

(36:08):
let alone a culture
that has been snuffed out
or disappear or
demolished from history itself
is one of those things where like,
let that culture live on.
And I believe,
because Hawaiian, I
just in reading about it,
it was outlawed in,
there was a year that there was,
I think it was like
1897 or something,
it was the Hawaiian

(36:29):
language is outlawed.
Yeah, they did not
want that language
to breathe life any longer.
And only recently,
even before chief of war,
there has been an
incredible resurgence
with making sure the Hawaiian
language has life again.

(36:51):
There's a lot of immersion schools
within Hawaii itself
that strictly speak Olelo Hawaii,
the Hawaiian language to their
students and back.
A really, really cool part,
and one of the
most important parts,
I think that transcends just the
entertainment industry,
and what we do as
actors as a whole,

(37:12):
is that chief of war will always be
the epitome of having Hawaiian
language in film and TV
for generations to come.
And I know Hawaii is such
a small geographic area,
and yet those people exist,
Hawaiian still exist.
They deserve to
hear their language,

(37:33):
let alone their
culture and their history,
see the light of day in the
entertainment industry.
And the fact that
I'm a part of that,
it's just unbelievable.
That's awesome,
that's a perfect segue.
Real quick, so growing
up, you didn't speak it.
I didn't have any requirement
to speak any more than
a phrase, a sentence.

(37:55):
There was always like Aloha Kākou,
which is hello
everyone, Mahalo, Mahalo Nui.
Thank you.
In essence, we are grateful is the
true translation.
But to say anything
more than the greetings
and the hellos and goodbyes, I was
never required to.

(38:15):
Are you taught
Hawaiian history in that?
Is that a big part
of the school system?
There is, and it's not.
When I was going through primary
school or elementary,
and even into high school, it was
kind of like an elective.
It was an option.
And now, from what I've been told
from a lot of the
alumni from Punahou School,
they're making it a requirement

(38:36):
now, which is, I love that,
because it was never a requirement
when I was in school.
I just wanna, kind of
like what you were saying
as far as the importance of letting
the language live,
especially cemented in
this Apple TV series,
it's not gonna be hidden.
I mean, people are
talking about it now,
but if you wanna add on anything,
but this is based
on a true story of,

(38:57):
back in the late 18th century,
based on true history of how the
separate islands united,
they're all separate kingdoms
believed in separate gods.
And it was this story of how it
kind of eventually unified
as Hawaii.
So this is kind of

(39:17):
amazing that this is part
of Hawaii's history on top of
inventing that language.
You're right, that
was a perfect segue
because Hawaiian
history, Hawaiian culture,
it doesn't have any examples in the
entertainment industry
outside of "Chief of War."
Of course, there's the short films
and the independent films
that shed light upon what that is,

(39:39):
but they also don't have
the scale, the audience,
the reach, the way that Jason Momoa
and Apple TV Plus does.
And so the fact that
this thing even exists
is just, it's a huge win
for the state of Hawaii,
let alone the kingdom of Hawaii.
And I'm so proud

(39:59):
to be a part of that
because that didn't exist
prior to "Chief of War."
I can imagine not being Jason Momoa
and pitching to Apple TV,
"Hey, I have this beautiful story."
Truth be told, the story itself is
very much the story
that is "Game of Thrones."
Yeah.
I was just about to say that, I was

(40:20):
about to say that.
And it's also, it's
kind of like Shogun
over the Hawaiian natives peoples,
but also kind of
like "Game of Thrones."
But "Game of Thrones"
isn't real, so you top that.
This is real history.
It's a real, this
actually happened.
And Thomas Pazibit
was sharing something
a couple of weekends ago at the
Pacific Island Film Festival

(40:41):
about, we weren't
selling a Hawaiian story.
We were selling a
really good story.
It just so happens to be about the
Hawaiian islands.
There's a differentiation there.
In fact, in my own history,
when I was starting to touch up
upon certain events
and things within
the culture itself,

(41:01):
I kid you not, certain priests
that were a part of
one island's dynasty
would be shunned for whatever
reason, kicked out,
and they would sail
to a different island
and then work against that island.
And in essence, work as a priest

(41:22):
for a different island.
Because now they had
inside information.
It's like, that's
"Game of Thrones."
(all laughing)
We're just missing the dragons.
And so it became, some
battles were actually
more to do with murdering the
priest than the king himself.
Because they realized, oh, the
priest had so much more power,
so much more influence,

(41:43):
whispering nonsense
into the king's ear.
It's such a bizarre translation,
because you're right,
"Game of Thrones" is not,
that type of thing
actually happened
within Hawaiian
history, Hawaiian culture.
And so it's just a
really good story.
What I didn't expect was like,
there are a lot of parallels in it

(42:05):
to sort of Irish history
and the tribalism and the
indigenous language
and all of these
things that I was like,
oh my God, this is like similar.
Like it's very
different in a lot of ways,
but it's quite
similar in a lot of ways.
And I wasn't prepared for that.
And it drew me right in.
I was so thrilled
that it was in Hawaiian.
That was so, because

(42:26):
there's been more and more
Irish language films
coming out recently,
like "Nee Cap" would be one of the
most prominent ones
more recently, but like,
and there's a lot of Irish history,
it's quite well-documented on film,
but you're absolutely right.
There isn't a Hawaiian parallel.
There isn't a Hawaiian
equivalent until this.
And it's such a brilliant thing to
be a part of that.

(42:47):
How special.
It's incredible.
It's really incredible.
I don't wanna get
too lost in the meaning
of other projects
that come down the pipe
for any one of us
individually for that matter.
But the fact that this
came my way, our way,
I don't know if another project
will mean as much
or hit as close to home

(43:08):
as "Chief of War" does.
And kind of lining it back,
my familiarity with Irish history is not good at all.
But I will say,
I imagine some of the attraction
that you had to it too
is the spiritual element.
Absolutely.
You know, with some

(43:28):
of the fairy tales
within Gaelic history,
where I don't know
what it's called.
(speaking in foreign language)
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely right.
But like the spiritual element is
very interesting,
very attractive material for an audience.
The kind of witness and see how

(43:50):
that influences their people
and what decisions they make
because of the spiritual element,
because of the
quote unquote prophecy.
Yeah, and the thread of that
throughout history.
You know what I mean?
That's still being sort of woven
into the society.
Because Hawaii is such a
fascinating place to me
because it is a state,
but it's so unique and different.

(44:11):
And when you say
the kingdom of Hawaii,
like that to me is a place to be.
That to me exemplifies
it more than like a state.
You know what I mean?
A US state.
Yeah, yeah.
It's such a special kind of a place
that I'm thrilled that there's
something that's elevating
that on the world stage a bit.
Yeah.
I definitely wanna
get to a Hawaii more,

(44:33):
but can we talk a little
bit about the shooting?
The shooting process?
Oh yeah, for sure, for sure.
The preparation, besides we also
wanna talk about,
I read you added 20 pounds.
You packed on 20 pounds roughly.
So I wanna talk about that.
I wanna talk about the
training and preparation,
learning the language, Olelo.

(44:53):
Olelo.
Olelo.
Is that here?
Olelo.
So how much time did
they give you to, thank you.
How much time did
they give you to prep
and get up to
speed before shooting?
I had a month and a half
before we started
principal photography.
That month and a
half, I kid you not,

(45:14):
I would wake up and I
would listen to recordings
first thing I did in the morning.
By the time I was going to bed,
I would fall asleep to recordings
because it was the only
way I was gonna jam in
as much repetition as
I needed as possible.
The three of us were actors.
You understand,

(45:34):
learning your lines is like
on a scale of one to 10 of how much
work you've done is zero.
Yeah, 100%.
Just to get that out of the way,
it had to be this constant thing
because I had to be at a place
where I was comfortable enough
that it was going to

(45:55):
phonetically sound correct
at any given moment
and still be in a space
where I was free
enough to change it
because of what I'm listening to
within the conversation itself.
It was--
Adlib, you provide--
Oh, for sure.
I don't wanna derail
this, but it's funny.
Last week, I just
happened to say a story.

(46:16):
I had to speak
Chinese in an audition.
And when I work on my Chinese,
I drill it with my mom
going into the self-dip.
Drill, drill.
Anyway, long story short,
so I'm in a room,
callbacks with producers
for a very big TV show.
I get to the
Chinese part, I forget it.
It goes out of my head and I
screamed gibberish Chinese.

(46:39):
And not only that, if you're like,
"Okay, well, come on, they're not
gonna know, who cares?"
I literally
screamed gibberish Chinese.
And one of the producers,
there's a guy
sitting next to the camera,
a Chinese guy, like an Asian dude,
just sitting next to the camera.
And I looked at
him dead in the eyes.
I was like, "Oh yeah, he

(46:59):
knows I'm full of shit."
The positive about this is
I did end up booking that role.
I did book that role.
But I was hanging on by a thread.
So either way, don't let go of you.
I love that you're
looking at him going,

(47:19):
"You know, no one else
knows, but you know."
I can picture you doing that
and then in the
room, like clocking him
and going, "Don't you?"
Like the internal dialogue,
"Don't you wrap me up, you ugly."
(laughing)
Exactly, exactly.
So either way,
we know that Chinese Mandarin
is a very, very
difficult language to learn,

(47:41):
but you had a month and a half
and you want to
essentially become almost fluent.
I can't even
imagine the type of work
that would have to go into that.
And then you're in LA, you're
getting ready to fly out there.
What's the, you know,
what's your life like?
It was, the good thing is they flew
me out pretty early.

(48:01):
They flew me out early enough
to have like a month and
a half of pre-production
in Hawaii,
because that's where we
initially started shooting
was Hawaii, which was good,
because not only did we have to do
the language lessons
on a daily basis,
I'm a scrawny kid
and I'm, you know,
that's my natural state.

(48:22):
I'm like 165 pounds, five feet,
nine inches tall.
And I knew that's not gonna work.
It wouldn't really do
justice to the characters,
to the warriors that
existed in Hawaii in 1795.
It just wouldn't.
So I started the language lessons

(48:43):
on a daily basis.
I started eating a lot more carbs.
It's a lot of sweet
potato, a lot of rice,
and then increasing the protein
with steak, chicken,
occasionally,
again, thank you, Jason.
(laughing) Did you have someone
helping you with this
or was this like a,
you're just like a program
that you're like,
I'm just gonna do this?
Yeah, no, no, I mean,

(49:04):
we had the stunt team.
So we work out with
the stunt team a lot.
I didn't have an
actual individual trainer,
but as a cast like Tekohei Tuaka,
who plays Namake,
the other brother of Jason's,
and Siwa, who's
the younger brother,
the three of us in particular,
we would go to the gym
together all the time.

(49:24):
And so we kind of had
each other to train with.
And we would also go through
rigorous stunt training.
So pre-production,
you're packing on pounds,
you're working out, you're just
crushing the gym,
and then language lessons just over
and over and over again.
My testosterone
was through the roof.

(49:45):
That's the highest my
testosterone has ever been
since being, I
don't know, 18, I swear.
And then on top of
that, we had to make sure,
I can get pretty dark, but the
Hawaiians were dark.
So we spent a lot of
time in the sun as well.
And the fabric that we're wearing,

(50:07):
it's called malo, M-A-L-O,
and it's practically in between
your butt cheeks.
It's just a loincloth.
And so it's a bunch of kids from
Hawaii and New Zealand
that are walking
around Sandy's Beach in Oahu
with models on, it's like, "Holy

(50:27):
shit, this is crazy."
(laughing)
We were gonna get tan there.
And then whatever
we couldn't get tan,
they would make up,
hair and makeup department
would have to fill in the rest.
And that was a whole
nightmare in itself too,
because everybody has these
elaborate tattoos.
Kaie Keelee, who's played by
Temueta Morrison,
half his face

(50:47):
historically was all black.
And so he, brother man,
would sit in the chair
three hours every morning.
Three hours.
And then it would take, I don't
know, hour and a half
after he was done to
take all of that stuff off.
Oh my gosh.
And then there were some days they
had him on the schedule
and then they didn't get to it.

(51:08):
So they would have to push back and
Temueta would be like,
"Thank you for
calling me half past 12.
(laughing)
Appreciate it.
(laughing)
What the fuck is this?
(laughing)
But nothing, I'll just take a bus.
Yeah, it's so bad.
That's right.
You can't just kind of
leave that tattoo on.
It's half of your face.

(51:28):
He's not gonna walk around Hawaii
and in his normal life like that.
I'm so glad that you brought up
essentially a loincloth
because if you
haven't seen the show,
Jason Momoa is
almost completely naked,
lassoing a shark.
This is what
you're going up against.
He's a tall task.
It's a tall task.
That's a lot.

(51:49):
That scene in particular, that
sequence, let's be honest.
Nobody's looking at the shark.
Nobody's looking at J.P.'s face.
We all know what
everybody's looking at.
(laughing)
No matter what you are.
Yeah.
100%.
I will say Jason
Momoa is the one person
where I'm like, "Yeah, I buy that."
Yeah.
I buy that.
He could do that.

(52:09):
He could do that.
I barely, I kind of
believe Tom Cruise.
Like I kind of,
maybe the Rock Johnson,
but Jason Momoa, oh, I believe.
He's got that in him, man.
He really does.
If I could take time to
give Jason Momoa flowers.
He has this perceived
notion from the public that,

(52:29):
yeah, he's a six foot
four 13 year old child
stuck in a Greek God's body.
That's what it is.
Truth be told, as playful as he is,
the man is an absolute genius
when it comes to action on film.
He really is.
He knew exactly
where his big frame was

(52:51):
within that 16 by nine frame.
So on that note, he
directed the series,
I'm sorry, he
directed the season finale.
He did, yeah.
Epic battle scenes.
And obviously, this has been,
we'll put a link
in the description,
but I just heard the story.
He's getting ready to direct this
huge finale shoot

(53:12):
and the volcanoes are erupting.
For the first time in 38 years,
it was just like
the Hawaii universe
was kind of in
concert with your shoot.
100% in sync with
what we were doing.
We couldn't believe it.
The fact that it hadn't
gone off in 30 plus years

(53:35):
and it just so
happens that chief of war
is in Kalapana on the big island,
shooting the
scene, the grand finale,
which by the way had
a volcano erupting.
This historically happened
and it took out Cliff Curtis'
character, Keowah.
It took out half of Keowah's army.

(53:56):
That's real.
That historically happened.
And the fact that it actually went
off while we were there,
that was the biggest blessing omen
that we could have possibly had
happen genuinely.
The funny story, they told us,
hey, no drones,
it's not right here.
You're not supposed
to film the volcano

(54:16):
and Apple went, yeah,
yeah, yeah, send the drones.
So they sent it.
(laughing)
I mean, it all went
well, so it was worth it.
Yeah, yeah.
So let's talk
about, on this podcast,
we talk a lot about
the acting industry
and the film industry.
So let's talk about
Hawaii a little bit

(54:36):
because I love speaking to,
and we talked a little bit
about this last
time we saw each other.
I was curious, as
a native Hawaiian,
not only do you see your
state and your homeland,
a huge influx of tourism.
We had, well, Hawaii had fires.
There's a lot of people

(54:57):
who were buying up land,
buying up houses.
There's kind of this
tricky relationship
between tourism and the natives.
And then also on top of it,
this bustling film industry,
I feel like it's
kind of in this lull
and slow down, this
rise and slow down,
a lot like Los

(55:18):
Angeles and California.
Yeah.
We had a lot of TV shows,
Chief of War is the
big TV show right now.
Lilo and Stitch was a huge hit,
but right now there's not a TV show
right now in Hawaii.
The film and
entertainment industry within Hawaii
is a very lucrative opportunity for
the people of Hawaii.

(55:39):
And they're currently out of work.
They don't have the
influx, like you were saying,
of jobs that used to exist there.
I remember there
was a period of time
where I think it was Doogie,
Kamehaloa for Disney,
Magnum PI.
And NCIS Hawaii was
on for a lot of that.
NCIS Hawaii, thank you very much.
And then there was also this other,

(56:00):
before Rescue High Surf, it was
called Kanui Road.
And my experience
with some of that crew,
they would be so
grateful for the work
that they
oftentimes were short hands
with a different production
happening around the
same time simultaneously.
And they would be
shot left and right
with going from

(56:20):
production to production.
And they're happy, I
mean, yeah, of course,
it's crazy hours, they
work from God knows when
to God knows when, they're
collecting overtime happily.
Yeah, right.
Because if they're not doing that,
they have to work jobs
that adhere to the tourists.
The business plan
for the state of Hawaii
is so geared toward tourism,

(56:41):
they don't really
have any other choice.
That's how the state
of Hawaii makes money
from visitors coming to the islands
and spending money
for these businesses.
So, not everybody
has a job in tourism,
but it's very prevalent
within the state of Hawaii
and the people of Hawaii.
They work either airline jobs, like
myself, my family,

(57:01):
they work in
hotels, restaurants, bars,
booking, accommodations.
And that's not an easy
thing, it's almost as if
throughout the years and
throughout the decades,
the people of Hawaii
have become programmed
to be subservient to tourism,
because they have no other choice.

(57:22):
And that's really where that
negativity stems from,
if any at all.
Truthfully, I really
consider my home state,
my hometown to be the
friendliest, I really do.
Now, there is a line,
if you cross that line
and you're
disrespectful, you're gonna hear it
without a doubt, like
you should from any place,

(57:44):
regardless of what
you do. Yeah, of course.
Even the Hawaiian language and what
is considered Pigeon,
even as a kid growing
up, Pigeon was the language
that the plantation
workers spoke with each other
because it culminated from
Hawaiians, Portuguese,
Filipinos, Chinese and Japanese,

(58:04):
all working the
plantation fields within Hawaii
for the white folks
that took the land.
And they all had to
communicate with each other,
hence why Pigeon became Pigeon.
They were speaking their own
English to each other,
and it was this broken
culmination of language,
that's where Pigeon derives from.
Pigeon itself, the
way it's structured

(58:28):
is very much similar to the way
the Hawaiian
language is structured.
So that was very helpful, just as a
side thought there.
But that even
Pigeon itself as a kid,
what I was saying was, that was
looked down upon.
You're not supposed to speak Pigeon
because it was indicative of you
being of a lower stature,

(58:48):
of a lower status in society.
And so like I
said, this programming
of being almost
subservient to the tourists,
why are we, yeah,
that's how we make money,
but why do we have to be
subservient to them?
It's too far programmed
into what's the culture.

(59:09):
And people come to
Hawaii and they get lays,
and they have no idea of the
immense intricate history
that is involved with
the Hawaiian islands.
And that, if anything,
people think of Pearl Harbor,
and that's already
too far down the road.
And no disrespect to

(59:30):
anybody who was there,
who's lost their
lives during Pearl Harbor,
but even beyond that,
what Hawaii was before then
is not even acknowledged.
Not to the scale that I think it
deserves, at least,
because that would
speak of the things
that shouldn't be
spoken of regarding

(59:51):
how the state of Hawaii is being
the state of Hawaii.
That's really interesting.
I didn't know that about the
plantations and the pigeon.
Yeah.
Pigeon and that.
But it's interesting, and not to
make too close a parallel,
but there's a sort of a cultural
identity in Ireland as well,

(01:00:12):
that's a little
bit, not subservient,
but something akin to that,
where even with, you see
it in the film industry,
so Ireland's bustling at the
moment, film-wise.
Yeah, yeah.
That was just out there
for six months working.
One of the jobs I did
was an American show.
There's a lot of
things shooting there,
but the sort of a
feeling that you're lucky,
you're lucky to be working.

(01:00:33):
Yeah, yeah.
You're lucky that
doesn't work here.
So just keep your
mouth shut and just,
do you want the work to go away?
So it's a very tricky--
Yeah, almost as if it's trying to
limit your ability
to express yourself in whatever
way, shape, or form.
I love that you shared that

(01:00:55):
about the industry within Ireland,
because that whole concept of, oh,
you should be lucky.
Yeah, it's like,
yeah, you should be happy.
You should be happy
if you have a job.
You should be happy
if you have income.
Like, yes, and--
So we're wrapping up here.
Thank you again.
I could keep talking,
this is a privilege.
Yeah, no, we do.
We do.
(laughing)
As far as the shoot, as

(01:01:16):
far as the shoot here,
what were the biggest takeaways
that you learned,
your first series regular?
I don't even know how many months
were you shooting?
Yeah, I wasn't
shooting every single day
the way Jason was,
which I was grateful for,
because it allowed me
to have space to learn
and pick up things
from being on set.

(01:01:36):
In fact, the days that I wasn't
working or shooting,
I would oftentimes
request or ask permission
to shadow an
individual like Justin Chong,
or Brian Mendoza, for instance,
who directs some of
the episodes in between,
and even Jason himself when, yeah.
Just to pick up as
much information,
because it's not every day that the

(01:01:58):
three of us are on set.
And the fact that I
had this wonderful,
wonderful opportunity to be on set
for three months in Hawaii
and then six months in New Zealand,
I was like, I'm gonna try to fill
in as much information
as I possibly can.
I still don't know how
this thing creates itself.
I really don't.
The fact that
anything is actually made

(01:02:18):
and gets to screen is a bona fide,
certified miracle.
Isn't it?
I always think that
it takes so many people
to create that thing.
And there's so many things that
could go wrong along the way
and it requires so
many things to go right
in order for that to
just be on a screen.
Yeah, yeah.
It's mind blowing to me.
You see these

(01:02:39):
podcasts and they talk about,
being a director is knowing you've
got five shots left
and you're only gonna get two.
Then you're like,
you're the only person.
You're like, holy shit.
This is, they gotta, it's like,
there's a part of it that becomes
like an indie shoot.
It does.
It becomes an
independent film shoot
where you're gonna have to make
decisions on the spot.

(01:03:00):
That's amazing.
What point of the shoot
in these nine episodes
and what point did you feel like,
okay, I think I got it.
I get into the flow of
the shoot, schedule, life.
Yeah.
I don't think it happened to me
until I was maybe two
or three months in New Zealand,

(01:03:21):
where it was this
thing that like, okay,
this is what I do now.
It took me a long time to kind of,
and not so much being the flow,
because I could feel
myself being in the flow
even early on,
like from the get go.
But it wasn't as anxiety inducing

(01:03:44):
as it used to be.
And that was a beautiful, beautiful
self actualization
slash realization from me,
because you can
kind of breathe now.
Like, no, this is, you kind of
embrace what you do
as a whole and
realize, this is what I do.
There's no ifs,

(01:04:04):
ands, or buts about it.
It in essence is getting rid of the
imposter syndrome.
Imposter syndrome, yeah.
And then some of that
kind of seeps into like,
oh, if I spend too
much time on set,
they're gonna realize I'm a fake.
Like, we're all fakes, buddy.
(laughing)
We're all fakes. Yeah, yeah.
All full of shit.

(01:04:25):
It's a matter of whether or not
you're good at it.
That's really what it is, you know?
And so that moment
of like realizing,
no, I'm an actor, man.
This is what you do.
It was a beautiful moment.
But I remember
thinking maybe three months
into being in New Zealand,
where I really stepped into that.
And you know how you
do an audition live,
or you do a Zoom call back

(01:04:47):
and you can feel the
heart start to palpitate?
Yeah.
Boom, ba-boom, ba-boom, ba-boom.
I remember the last three months,
I would show up to set,
and it really
started in the makeup room.
I would feel like
this, this like coming to.
And what was really
helpful physically was

(01:05:07):
getting the sides
cut every morning,
getting the hair done,
and then you'd see
this long mohawk.
And now I've got this tattoo coming
down my left side.
Like, I don't need to
pretend anything here.
This is doing all the work.
I will say having a badass mohawk
and also that sleeve
tattoo, that does help.

(01:05:29):
85% of the work, genuinely.
Yeah.
And what brought it to my attention
was my head of hair department.
Her name is Anna Lynn Cruz.
She would see the
switch of gears in me
as she would cut my hair every
morning, genuinely.
She goes, "Oh, there he is."
I love that so much.

(01:05:50):
Cause like, it's not just that.
It's all the prep
you've done before that,
but that combined,
like that last piece
and that feeling of like, "Oh, this
is what I do now.
I'm an actor."
And I swear to God,
I've only felt like that in the
last three years.
And I didn't, and I've
been doing this a while.
And like, you know,
and even the experience
of like working in
Ireland for six months

(01:06:10):
in a country that I fucking love
and I love working in,
I was like, "Oh, I'm an actor now."
And I was so grateful to
just be like doing this,
that thing that I
love, that kind of a scale
with all these people
that I really enjoy.
Like, I'm so grateful.
And I love hearing you say that.
Like, this is such a
beautiful realization.

(01:06:32):
And you're dead right.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
And I'm sure you've
experienced this too,
where you show up to
set and you're like,
"Oh, my heart's not racing."
Yeah.
You know, there's like a-
I belong here.
Yeah, I love them.
And that's, we have,
I remember early on
and it's probably true for
everybody's career,
but it's so incredibly

(01:06:53):
difficult to just start off
at a place where
you're just relaxed.
And then to have that
relaxation as step one
become part of the process,
not as something that
really takes a lot of effort
to just become relaxed,
but it's just there now.
At peace, at peace.

(01:07:14):
It speaks volumes to know like,
that's your process now.
You start at relaxed.
You don't have to work your way up
to become relaxed,
which is half the battle when you-
I remember, for instance, there was
a commercial audition
that I had down Wilshire, I think.
And I didn't put
enough coins in the meter.

(01:07:35):
So, and I knew my group was up
for this commercial audition.
I sprinted to the car, put a couple
quarters back in.
I sprinted back, shit you not.
That audition I booked
because that was the
most relaxed I ever was.
Are you serious?
Yes, yes.
I exerted all of the
energy in the sprint
to make sure the car
was okay, turned down.

(01:07:56):
And I was just so trained of any
extra energy that I had.
And I booked that
commercial audition.
That's not a bad lesson.
That's not a bad lesson.
But you know, you
don't, you get to a point,
so you stick around long enough.
You're like, you don't have to
sprint and come back
and then do that
just to be relaxed.

(01:08:16):
You just realize
you're relaxed now.
And conversely, I remember,
is when I was living in Chicago,
I went in for an
audition at a casting office
that I had just
booked a movie through.
So I went in with pretty confident.
I drank a coffee
right before I walked in.
Yeah.
The adrenaline hit me
right in the audition
and my legs started to shake.
And I was like, looking at it.
And then they're looking at it.
I'm like, I don't

(01:08:36):
know what's wrong.
I'm like, I'm so sorry.
(laughing)
And they're like, are you okay?
And I'm like, yeah, I
think I have to leave.
And they're like, all right.
(laughing)
Yeah, I think I should call my
doctor right now.
This is a great lesson
because for the non actors,
there's so much
besides the technique,
like you said, knowing the
technique, the craft of acting,

(01:08:58):
there's so much that
goes into doing our job.
That is just dealing
with the adrenaline
and the craziness up here.
Yeah.
Just to get out of our way.
Yeah, it's true.
Getting out of your way is
literally half the battle.
I love that you
brought that up in the phrase
that you did, get out of the way.

(01:09:18):
You do the homework, you
throw it out, you know?
Yeah.
Just get out of the way.
I love where we are.
Just the last thing
about "Chief of War",
was there anything
through this process
that really surprised you?
Yeah, no.
More than anything else,
it was one thing to go through the
journey and realize like,
oh, I can do this now.

(01:09:40):
Whatever it is,
technically within a scene
or a scene partner, I can do that.
And that kind of
took care of itself
throughout that journey.
What did really shake me was,
I don't have a wife,
I don't have a significant other,
I don't have children.
And I saw some of my co-stars,

(01:10:02):
some of my best friends that I made
throughout the series,
who had wives, who had children,
juggle doing their job
and trying to make time
even remotely with their families,
with their wife, with their kids,
with their husband, whoever.
And that really put things in

(01:10:22):
perspective for me.
I don't wanna discourage anybody.
I never wanna discourage anybody.
If anybody wants to be an actor,
I'd be the first to
tell you, hey, do it.
There is a side to it where if you
stick around long enough
and you're good at what you do,
you're giving away
time in your life.

(01:10:43):
And you have to be okay with that.
And so does, sadly, so does your
significant other,
so does your
children, if you have any.
And I remember that being a huge
impact in my mentality.
If you're gonna do the production,
I heard it from somebody else.
This isn't
something I came up with,

(01:11:05):
but let's be
honest, any production,
people are gonna get divorced.
People are gonna go through really
bad relationships
in terms of a lack of communication
for whatever reason,
or the obvious
reasons, because time zones,
make it worth it.
If you're the
actor, do the homework,
make sure you're prepared,

(01:11:28):
because people are sacrificing
their time for this.
And not just their time, but
perhaps time with their children,
time with their wives, their
significant others,
their husbands, it
cannot just be for nothing.
That was one in particular what
really, really shook me.

(01:11:49):
That's beautiful.
My language coach,
Keabe Gujiu and one of my good
friends, Te Kohei Tuhaka.
Both who have three or four
children and wives.
And I remember being in
New Zealand and in Hawaii
and in both instances,
they would try to spend as much
time on the phone
with FaceTime as they could.

(01:12:10):
And I thought,
man, that's not easy.
That's a really beautiful insight
into the process.
And it speaks to, I think it speaks
to your humility,
your level of
commitment and passion,
which is really
clear, your love for it.
It really all comes across.

(01:12:31):
And I think that's a really
wonderful thing for me to hear,
not least, but for other
people to hear as well.
Like that's to make it worth it.
That's a really
impactful statement.
I love that. I appreciate that.
I just have one last
question in account,
sorry, before we wrap up.
I just wanted to ask,
so like coming out of this process

(01:12:52):
and being at the end of like the
sort of the press tour,
have you, and maybe it's
too early to notice this,
but have you noticed,
what has it changed
for you in your life?
Are you, like are there, you know,
on a practical level,
obviously, are
there offers coming in?
Or is it just a confidence thing?
Do you feel like it's just changed
the face of your life,

(01:13:13):
you know, your day to day?
Yeah, it's been this thing where
I've noticed the
auditions coming in
seem to be aware of my
work with Chief of War.
Within the last month or two,
the auditions that have come in
where I realized like,

(01:13:33):
oh, I don't think
that would have came in.
And you know, this is me kind of
speculating really.
I don't know for certain.
But what's
interesting is that I've noticed
that even general
meetings that I've had
or people that I've met through
being on Chief of War
has gone a long way and
I believe will continue
to go a long way,

(01:13:54):
especially perhaps three or four
years down the road from now.
Where it's, yes, you
have to do the work,
you have to do the
best with your auditions
and leave it all out there.
And at the same time,
there's this building block
of work that has nothing
to do with the work itself,
but sadly your

(01:14:14):
connections and your introductions
to people within
the industry as well.
And that's a great point.
When we talk about networking,
we talk about the craft of acting.
It doesn't need to
be one or the other.
It doesn't need to
be all networking.
You just like goof off
and party all the time.
It's you did the
work, you were training
and you got the opportunity.
And now networks are
networking and connections

(01:14:35):
are just going to supplement and
amplify all the work
that you've already done.
So we're kind of,
that's part of the reason,
just to kind of circle this back,
when I hang out with you and all
the Graham Shields guys,
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's just such an act, like a
friendly attitude
about you guys.
Yeah, yeah.
Like over the course of
the past year and a half,
the industry is kind of

(01:14:56):
faltering, stuttering.
You guys look happy,
like you're still working
and not at any point did I feel
like you were the type
of guy to be competitive, jealous.
I mean, this is
without the Mohawk, right?
I was just saying like,
you all had this good energy
about you since the beginning.

(01:15:17):
This is the type
of guy that you are.
No, I thank you
for saying that, man.
Like specifically within Graham
Shields community
that I've become a part of,
especially with Aaron Anastasi,
Davis Cameron, Rexon, Amy
Ward, I love those guys.
And you know, and I kid you not,

(01:15:38):
I would show up to class literally
for my mental health.
That was like the
best part of my week.
Yeah, because it wasn't just me.
We all share that
same mentality where,
yes, we're rooting for
ourselves, obviously.
We're also rooting for each other.
And there was this understanding

(01:15:58):
even within each individual
that we're not
competing against each other.
It's not a rat race.
And that goes a long way.
To have a genuine
community that supports you
and has ideas and
looks for the best interest
in your work and vice versa, that
really goes a long way
because it can be really lonely.

(01:16:20):
I'm sure you guys have felt that.
It's designed for us to feel
discouraged and alone
and on the verge of
quitting at any given moment.
And to have community that shares a
sentiment otherwise
just goes such a long way.

(01:16:41):
It's not to say that you can't have
the competitive edge.
Of course, get the
competitive edge.
I find that mentality
more to exist in Hawaii
because of how small it
is more than anything.
That's a whole--
Interesting.
Yeah, that we could
share on a different--
Let's do-- yeah, yeah, yeah.
Part two-- actually,

(01:17:01):
this is a good segue.
Part two, when we talk about season
two of "Chief of War."
[LAUGHTER] So as far as on the
horizon, you're available.
Everyone, Brandon Finn, is
available right now.
So no word about pickup.
No word about pickup.
But--
Yeah, not a--
You're waiting?
Yeah, still waiting.

(01:17:23):
There's talks.
But talks don't exist and facts
don't exist until deadline
or--
I know.
I know what a reporter
comes out with something.
We're going to put
your social media
handles in the show description.
But just for the audio listeners,
do you want to say the best way to
get a hold of you?

(01:17:44):
Yeah.
Don't.
Contact my man.
[LAUGHTER]
Don't.
What do you do?
Don't contact Brandon Finn.
He's already too busy.
No, no.
I will say this because I don't
want to sound pretentious.
I don't want to sound pretentious.
I will say there's been a huge
increase in just visibility

(01:18:05):
with my name out there.
And it's the first time for me.
And I've also spent a lot of time
with someone who is Jason Mamaw.
And that man has
no time to himself.
None.
And some of it's by
design because he's
a certain type of
individual that likes company.
And some of it's not
his control at all.
He cannot go

(01:18:26):
walking down the street.
And I think that really put me in a
space where I just
get worried about
strangers contacting me.
And it's not to say, hey, I'm not
looking for work.
I'd love to work
wherever the work is.
My one social media
account is on Instagram.

(01:18:47):
It's called-- the
handle is the Brandon Finn.
T-H-E-B-R-A-N-D-O-N-F-I-N-N.
And outside of that, if
there's any work in Kuwait,
please contact my
manager, Brian Fitzgerald.
Love that.
That's professional right there.
I will say one last thing.

(01:19:08):
I have a feeling if you're ever
flying Hawaii Airlines,
if you were a flight attendant, you
would be getting
recognized left and right.
Yeah, I haven't
worked since the premiere.
That's correct.
And I'm a little
hesitant to as well.
I just-- I don't--

(01:19:28):
it feels like I would
be doing more press.
And it's like, I need--
I don't want to do--
I don't want to do more work.
You know?
I don't mind doing press.
I believe that.
Yeah, I don't mind
doing press, but I
don't want to be
doing press while I go,
here's your can of Sprite, sir.
Would you like anything else?
Yeah.
All right.
Well, Brandon,
this has been amazing.
If you have a hidden

(01:19:49):
gem, you can offer one,
but you don't have to.
Yeah, yeah.
This kind of lines back into if I
can share this hidden gem
with what we were talking about,
about juggling personal life
with the job once you have the job.
And there's this beautiful
documentary on HBO called
The Last Hollywood Stars.

(01:20:11):
And it's about Joe Engleward.
And it's about Paul Newman and
their relationship.
And I think that's a
really telling documentary
about what life can potentially be
when you're a working actor,
let alone a legendary movie star

(01:20:32):
like Paul Newman was.
But that, to me,
shed light upon the life
and making sure you're
in the right state of mind
to juggle both lives, because
that's a difficult thing.
So I know my hidden gem there.
There you go.
That's a beautiful hidden gem.
That's a great hidden gem.

(01:20:53):
I didn't want to put you
under too much pressure,
but that was a great one.
So, Rian, do you want
to jump in with yours?
Mine is--
So mine's a bit--
yeah, mine this week is--
so I stumbled upon
a Spotify playlist.
I was looking for a song, and I
stumbled upon this sort of--
Oh, nice.
These audio files about like--
and whatever you think about this

(01:21:14):
is entirely valid,
about the idea of vibrations and
what you put out in the world
and where you get back and just all
this mindset stuff.
And it's just taken me
down this rabbit hole of--
I started listening to a
guy called Joe Dispencer,
and then I was listening to some of
the Abraham Hicks stuff.
And not settling on
any one aspect of it,
but it's taken me down this rabbit

(01:21:35):
hole of just changing
the way you look at the world.
Because I've been kind of dabbling
in this for a while.
And certainly over
the last few years,
it's become very much--
I've become really
interested in it,
and I've seen the
changes in my life.
What is this?
This is a Spotify playlist of--
What's this Spotify playlist?
Are they like meditations?
Somewhere.

(01:21:56):
There's one called--
the one I popped up on is like--
and I'm not endorsing
this user in any way,
but it's called Be
Better Every Day.
And I just found a load of
different sort of files,
audio files of just people.
It's taken me down all these little
avenues of really
delving into this stuff.
No, no, I love that.
I kind of get the sense of what--
Yeah, not to take--
I'm sorry, I didn't
mean to cut you off.
No, please, please, I'll jump in.

(01:22:17):
I kind of get a sense of what
you're talking about.
Because I sense within myself very
much so I can be very--
it's kind of what feeds the
character I was playing.
I can be very dark.
I can be very brooding.
I can be very pessimistic almost to
a certain degree.
And I try to find--
I don't mind going

(01:22:38):
there, because oftentimes I
find strength in it.
I really do.
I'm getting upset, kind of fanning
the flames of making it
bigger than it actually is.
Like anger.
Anger gives you fuel.
Anger on the same way.
On the same way.
Like if you allow me,
I'll talk some Mad Smack.

(01:22:58):
Mad Smack, because I'll
start to feed off of it
and use it for
whatever I think is effective.
Now, that doesn't mean I have to
speak about everything
in my life that way.
What you're sharing about the
vibration of things
and being
grateful, that positivity,
I realize I often lack.
[LAUGHTER]
And it's--

(01:23:19):
I do.
Wow.
I wouldn't have guessed.
No, no, I definitely do.
And I think the only
thing that works for me
is that I am aware of it.
That's the only thing
that really saves me.
Now, like I was saying, if I think
it's going to be useful,
I'll let myself fly off the cuff.
But hearing you share that about--

(01:23:40):
especially when it comes to
manifesting thoughts
or thinking of the future and
realizing how far you've come,
even within your own journey.
It's just like, I love
hearing that from you,
that vibrational change of
frequency almost.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I really appreciate that.
And I can tell with you, because
that darkness you talk about,
that's always there.

(01:24:00):
That's always accessible for me.
I can use that if I need to.
I realize that how I exist day to
day, it's a choice.
My perception of my life can seem
amazing or not great at all.
And the material aspects of it
haven't changed much.
It's my perception of it.
So it's just kind of my perception

(01:24:20):
when I find it slipping into that
sort of negativity
or pessimism or darkness.
That's a nice hidden gem.
So Reem, we'll put the
playlist in the description.
Mine does fall in line a little bit
with your guys, which is great.
I just discovered this app.
It's called Deepstash.
Instead of
doomscrolling, it's basically

(01:24:42):
chunks, quick little
bits of learning ideas,
whether it's books, podcasts.
It literally will just pop in
nuggets of productivity,
nuggets from a self-help book.
It could be anything, just ideas,
genius of da Vinci,
how to invest your
time, invest your money,

(01:25:02):
all these little hits.
So instead of doomscrolling, you
can learn a
two-minute chunk of something.
So I just downloaded it.
I just started it.
I'm going to give it a try.
It's free.
That's the app.
It's called Deepstash.
I think all of our
hidden gems kind of work well.
Yeah, I feel
spiritual hidden gems there.
Yeah, exactly.
So this is a great place to end.
Brandon Finn, it

(01:25:23):
has been a pleasure.
I enjoyed this so much, genuinely.
Thank you so much, you guys.
I'd be happy to come back anytime
you guys want me to.
I love it.
I love that.
I'm so thrilled for you as well.
Congratulations on everything.
Thank you, guys.
We have a really
wonderful chat to you.
Thank you for the love.
Thank you for the support.
Thank you for the aloha.

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