April 14, 2025 • 28 mins
Welcome to the Actor's Guide Podcast, Episode 24! This episode is also a change of pace from previous episodes - unreleased footage that got cut from a previous episode. E-Kan and Rían discuss the unique and intense bond actors and crew make shooting a production, and are these relationships real or fake? Also why being on set is very much like a dinner party, as E-Kan likes to call it. E-Kan then has a flashback to his worst on set experience, and they describe what makes a bad set, as well as wonder why background actors get treated so poorly. And why it's helpful to think of actors as the head of the Acting Department on set.
This episode gets real, ya’ll.
What do you think of E-Kan’s story? What’s your worst on set experience?
Email us at @actorsguidepodcast@gmail.com
Follow us on YouTube, Substack, and all social media @actorsguidepodcast!
Time stamps:
(00:00) Intro
(01:51) The unique relationships made on set
(05:00) Are these relationships on set real or fake?
(08:48) E-Kan's worst on-set experience
(12:00) There's no excuse for treating background actors badly on set
(17:50) Why Christian Bale might have a point
(18:35) We're the Acting Department
(23:30) Acting can be a grind
(24:50) The differences between a bad day at your side job and on set
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Right off the bat, when I met the
creators and the head show
runners, it is kind of hilarious
because when I introduced myself, one of
them just had this look of confusion.
And I'm like, "Wait, confusion?"
When you got there?
I don't even know what the speculation, I
don't even know what it was about, but it
was confusion as in...
(00:22):
Guys, this guy is Asian?
Did anybody know he was Asian?
Did we know that?
I thought it was worse than that.
Hey, all.
Welcome to the Actors Guide to the End of
the World podcast
where we talk about acting
in Hollywood in a way people understand.
I'm your host, E-Kan
Soong, and I am on the road.
I'm a far off land.
(00:43):
I am excited to tell you about the trip
when I get back, but
until then, we have another
bonus episode.
This one's a little different.
I did some digging and found some
unreleased footage from a previous
episode that we never
got a chance to air.
It was a great conversation nonetheless.
Rian and I talk about
relationships we make on set.
(01:05):
Are they real?
Are they fake?
We discuss.
And we also talk about
worst on set experiences.
So that's a doozy.
Anyway, it's a great episode.
Hope you enjoy it.
Follow us wherever you find your podcast.
We're on YouTube.
We're on Substack.
Follow us wherever you find your social
media, at Actors Guide Podcast.
(01:27):
Make sure you follow, like, subscribe,
and if you get a chance
to read a review, we would
greatly appreciate it.
Hope you enjoy the episode.
Now, a word from our
sponsor for today's episode.
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(01:48):
Ruffalo, and Sir Patrick Stewart.
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The sense of community on any project,
whether it's good or bad,
they're good sets and they're
bad sets.
That's a bit reductive.
There are, you know,
sets that are tougher.
No, I think that's true.
There's good sets of bad sets.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(02:33):
just haven't worked in them
where like every part of this,
we're trying to make something.
And then you've only have
control over your own bit.
You don't have
control over anything else.
I have no control over
how something turns out.
It doesn't really matter.
You know what I mean?
All I can do is show up and do my thing.
But I love it.
I love being a part of that.
No, no, I think that's great.
I'll always use this metaphor.
(02:54):
It's the best party.
Being on a great set, being able to
collaborate in that way,
it's the best party.
Just enjoy it while it lasts, because
when the shoot is over,
you're going to be like leaving the party
and it's never going to happen again.
No, that collection of
people will never be together
in the same way again.
And that's, I think
that's really appealing to me.
(03:15):
And I talked to somebody recently,
they couldn't handle that part of it.
They realized that they, you know,
they liked a lot of the things around it,
but they just didn't
like the work itself.
And I think that overwhelmed them,
that it just, it felt fake or something.
But to me, I actually
loved the intensity of it.
(03:36):
I have lifelong
friends that I met, you know,
doing jobs that were so
intense and then they ended.
And that was okay,
because they're meant to end.
Like, for example, I did an indie movie
in Illinois last year.
Because we were in a
small, we're in a small town.
It's not a big city.
We're in the town of Champaign,
which if you don't know is a,
(04:00):
it's a college town in Illinois.
It's about two hours south of Chicago.
It was like being at summer
camp for adults, you know,
because we were all
in this place together
and I had such a blast.
And I, you know, it
was the kind of thing,
because I was on it from
start to finish, you know,
I was there for the whole time,
for the five weeks or whatever.
I was determined to just be present
(04:20):
and enjoy every second
of it and do everything.
You know what I mean?
Before going out, I was gonna go out.
watching people set up for shots. I'm so
fascinated by how people work.
(04:42):
And I love that. And you know, it's so
funny because I'm the
same way as an actor.
We have such a small part of the entire
puzzle, but I love seeing how shots are
constructed and how they produce things.
We're saying that some people have
trouble with the
intensity of the experience.
What, what, what, what, what, what, what,
what, what, what, what, what, what, what,
some people do, but I was talking to, I
(05:04):
don't know what that means is what I'm
saying. Like they didn't like the ups and
downs of how a shoot ends and they fell
like they didn't, they didn't enjoy it.
No, I don't think it was that I probably
didn't verbalize that very effectively,
but I think what I, what I got from it
was that it felt
because you feel so close to
(05:24):
people in that environment, because
you're working long hours, you're working
together, you're, you know, I think they
felt close to people.
And when it ended, I think they felt like
it diminished, like it was fake or
something. Like it
wasn't real, like it ends.
And then that's a really good point.
I love this.
This is something that we can dive into a
(05:44):
whole nother episode.
Let's do it now.
And it is.
Let's dive in now.
Let's say, for example, we go to the
party, we have super high expectations.
We want it to be the best party ever.
We want it to be the best shoot ever.
And sometimes they're disappointing.
Yeah.
And that's the, that's the game.
That's the role of dice.
You can't really force that.
You can't really create that.
(06:05):
But if it happens, I want to be
pleasantly surprised.
And I think it's, and I don't want to
judge whoever was having this
opinion, because I
think it's very relevant.
A lot of people are saying like, Hey, I
just had the great experience with
15 people and I don't talk to them
anymore after five years.
And I'm so disappointed because I thought
that there were going to be
really good friends and we lost touch.
(06:25):
And that's, I think that's what it is.
Yeah.
Hey, sometimes it all
doesn't end up how we hoped.
No, because I think it's jarring.
I think that's the thing.
It's a jet, like a.
people and you're like, Oh man, we're so
close. And then like you say,
you never hear from them again. You're
like, I thought we were close.
(06:46):
What was that? And I think you kind of,
you know, I think you can distrust the
whole process then, you know, and go,
whole experiences. Yeah.
And in a sense, it's
very, it is artificial.
You know what I mean?
It is an artificially intense
(07:07):
environment, but that's okay.
It's also ironic because we're people who
our job is to play pretend.
Yeah.
We go to a dinner party.
I keep using this party metaphor, but
it's just easy and relatable.
You love parties.
You're a party animal.
We go to a dinner party.
We have a great conversation and we
become, we think we become friends.
Yeah.
(07:27):
They're like, "I love
your Hawaiian shirt."
You're like, "Thank you very much."
And we realize, oh, they were just
networking or they were
just using me to ask a favor
and so on and so forth.
I don't go in there saying, "Hey, you
guys burned me before.
I don't want to get to know you because I
know that we're all
going to be chummy and
then it's going to be done and then we're
not going to talk to each other anymore.
So why am I going to bother?"
(07:49):
And so I understand protecting your heart
like that, but it's also interesting how
that could be projected by someone who's
like, "Yeah, no, I've
done this before and
I'm not going to do that again."
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right?
I mean, you can look at
that as relationships.
You could talk to them and say, "Well,
this happened to my
(08:10):
ex-girlfriend and I'm scared
to do it again."
I don't know that it's, yeah, that
extreme of like, "Oh, I'm
never going to get to..."
I think it was just a disappointing
experience for this particular person.
It was just
disappointing, which I understand.
Oh, I'm not knocking that.
I mean, here's the thing.
We can have a horrific experience on set.
I've had some unpleasant ones.
(08:31):
I wouldn't say horrific.
That could be so strong.
That could be so strong.
I never want to work as an actor again.
Sure.
Oh, absolutely.
I'm sure that happens all the time.
It's their choice to
whether they want to...
They enjoy the work or not.
Can you talk about any of those
unpleasant experiences on set?
I'd love to know.
Or are they not?
(08:52):
Can you not say?
Oh, I can talk about it.
I will just talk about the bullet points
of how it all went down.
And this is just loosely painting a
picture of what I call a bad set.
It was a big episode.
It was one of their
towards the end of the season.
(09:13):
Right off the bat when I met the creators
and the head show
runners, and I'm not going
to...
It doesn't matter what the...
Yeah, you don't have to
give any specifics at all.
It is hilarious because when I introduced
myself, one of them just had this look of
confusion.
And I'm like, "Wait, confusion?"
(09:34):
When you got there?
I don't even know what the speculation...
I don't even know what it was about, but
it was confusion as in...
Guys, this guy is Asian?
Did anybody know he was Asian?
Did we know that?
I thought it was worse than that.
I thought it was someone...
I rubbed someone the
wrong way and it was personal.
(09:56):
And of course, I'm just
going off of what I saw.
A deep confusion, and this
is introducing shaking hand.
No smile, no nothing, which is fine.
A deep confusion, and I
proceed to say, "Oh, I'm the..."
And I say my role.
I'm the da-da-da.
(10:16):
It's like, "Hello.
You did write this episode, right?
Is there something wrong here?"
I thought I might have triggered a
flashback to someone in
their life and it just flooded
them.
And I'm like, "Oh, okay.
Well, I'll just go
back to my trailer now."
So that's how the day started off.
(10:37):
Actually, technically, the day started
off me going over, driving
into parking and transpo.
I don't know the guys directing the
parking with their exact title.
They immediately shoot me out
and assumed I was background.
It was a big episode, first season, and
(10:58):
they were probably all stressed.
But my point is, is you add up all these
little things and it's
understood that it's really
stressful.
But the attitude of everyone going down
the row of, "Hey, I
would like to believe it all
(11:19):
trickles down from the top."
And I don't want to tarnish this
production because it's
very, very much beloved.
But I'm just saying that we dream of
being the number one on the call sheet.
We dream of running the show.
And I want to say that I
would not run a set like that.
But as soon as I go into parking, they
(11:39):
shoot me out, assume I'm background.
Of course, every principal actor is going
to get offended about that.
That's how the day starts.
Right.
I actually talked to somebody, another
actor friend of mine
recently, where somebody thought
he was background and
treated him poorly as a result.
And he got annoyed at them.
And they kept apologizing
and saying, "I'm so sorry.
I thought you were...
I didn't realize you're an actor.
(12:00):
I thought you were background."
And he was like, "You
shouldn't treat anybody like that.
Even if you thought I was background.
You should never
treat anybody like that."
And I think that's the lesson there.
It's like, "Oh, they
thought I was background."
Okay.
That doesn't give you
any less respect in there.
He's like, "I thought
(12:20):
you were a club human.
I thought you were just furniture."
That's a great point.
And it's also going back to the whole
union negotiations and
the meetings when you could
be in a meeting and understand and hear
concerns about people
who work puppets, people
who do stunts, people who do
specifically Spanish dubbing.
They all want their bills to be paid and
(12:42):
they all want to protect themselves.
And we can have respect for all of them,
but you're completely right.
It's like you treated them subhuman.
Oh, oh, that makes sense.
Yeah.
Oh, wait.
Here's the truth of it.
For now, until AI changes this, you
cannot make something
without background actors.
I mean, they're vital.
You need them in there.
You know what I mean?
(13:04):
So it's just, I don't know, even those
stories are a good lesson for me.
Treat everybody with respect.
You know what I mean?
Which sounds so basic and you shouldn't
have to say it, but absolutely do.
100%.
And that says what a good set is.
And also, I'll just add
this as a cherry on top.
When you hear stories that Tom Cruise
remembers everyone's name.
(13:26):
That's a story.
Tom Cruise remembers everyone's name.
I'm talking about in the production
office and on set, just
imagine the type of respect,
you know, regardless of what happens in
their personal lives,
you know, this is not part
of that conversation.
But, you know, we can easily knock these
top movie stars and
then we can also see, oh,
this is why they're a top movie star for
(13:48):
eons and generations
because that's how they run
a set.
So, you know, that's something that we
need to appreciate and
applaud more from our actors
in our top top top.
Absolutely.
I was doing a job one time and we were
doing a scene in like a
restaurant and at the end
of the day, one of the background actors
(14:08):
came up to say something to me.
He'd been there all day, you know, and he
starts talking to me and I could see the
ideas kind of like unsure
of what to do and panicking.
And he told me this like heartfelt story
about how his family would be so proud of
him and it was lovely.
It really was.
I was like, oh, thanks so much.
And I was, I shook his hand and I could
see the ideas kind of,
you know, panicking and
(14:29):
they sort of ushered him out.
And I was like, oh no, thanks a million.
I really appreciate it.
It was lovely talking.
And as a joke, I turned to one of the
ideas and went, don't
ever let an extra touch me
again.
And his face dropped and
I was like, I'm kidding.
He's lovely.
Stop.
Just relax.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
It's an important lesson.
It's an important lesson
because here's the thing.
Accidents and symptoms happen because of
(14:50):
past bad experiences.
Background actors talking, making stars
in a, you know, feel uncomfortable.
And it's one of those things where we
have to understand and
address that, hey, we want
to create an environment, but we can't
also make assumptions
about every actor, about every
background actor that they're going to
go, you know, cuckoo
(15:10):
whenever they talk to one
of the, one of the principal actors.
And I think that's, you know, that's,
that's one of those things to finish off.
The, that, that, uh, you know,
disappointing experience.
Now here's the thing.
I love the job and I
still get residuals from it.
So, you know, I'm just
putting in perspective.
This is, this is, that was
just the start of the day.
Oh, actually now I remember even, even a
couple other things.
(15:31):
So my scene was not heavy lifting.
I'm doing a big wide shot of
me, um, uh, doing the scene.
I didn't need too much direction.
It was fairly straightforward.
And you do your thing.
It's a big, it's a big, you
know, it's a big ballroom.
There's a, there's a lot of moving parts
when I'm essentially
(15:52):
doing the action and they
know that I'm rehearsing and, or maybe I
don't think I was
shooting, but I was doing a camera
rehearsal.
I don't even know his position, but it
was definitely not an
AD, but one of those guys
who is in charge of
the technical aspects.
I literally see him.
I'm in the head of the ballroom.
(16:14):
I literally see him directing cameras,
waving his hands, walking
towards me, you know, 50
feet ahead in a way, gesticulating his
arms, almost to make it a
point saying what we were
doing was not important.
So my point is, is, and I
(16:36):
think he was even talking.
That's a hell of a gesture by the way.
I'm trying to think what the gesture was.
Exactly.
You're, you're directing cameras or doing
all this stuff,
almost trying to make it a
show and me rehearsing was not more
important than whatever
the hell you were doing.
Okay.
(16:56):
It's just one of those things is like,
just imagine every audition
or every shoot, everything
you've done and someone in
front of you going like this.
That's what Christian Bale,
Christian Bale in trouble.
I know exactly.
It's also a great story for another
episode, but it's one of
those things where as an actor,
if you've been on set long enough, you'd
(17:17):
be like, I could see
why Christian Bale lost
his temper.
I mean, here's the thing.
It's like there was a chain of command
and I'm not saying I'm
at the top of chain of
command, but if you're running a set, you
have to understand
what your priorities are.
Maybe I wasn't that important of me
needing to say lines that
(17:38):
you guys sent me there to
do and him waving his arms, doing all the
cameras, maybe that was more important.
But my point is, is he's standing in
front of me, walking
towards me and I want to say
yelling.
It's not exactly
encouraging when I'm like, oh, okay.
So I guess we're going to roll one.
(17:58):
You know what I mean?
Yeah, actually that reminds me.
Here's one for you.
So I was talking to an actor one time, I
was talking to an
actor one time about he got
annoyed because they'd spent so long
setting up for a shot
and then they needed it.
They needed the shot.
They were like, we're losing light.
We need the shot done right away.
(18:20):
And he's like, hang on a second.
You guys spent forever setting this up.
One of the other actors stood up and
said, no, we're not doing it.
And everybody kind of got very awkward.
Someone said, well, I'm
the acting department.
You have the camera department, the
lighting department, we're
the acting department because
you don't always think of yourself as a
department, as an actor.
That's one of those things that I dream
(18:41):
that we would have the
power and the influence and
also the composure to say that.
So the icing on the cake, the icing on
the cake of all the things
because I just need to air
this out.
My coverage is pretty much done.
Two incidents happen with head stars.
(19:03):
One pleasant one, one very
pleasant one, not so pleasant.
During the rehearsals,
this is the pleasant one.
One of the heavy
recurrings and she's a saint.
She's a saint, especially if you're an
Asian in entertainment.
She's always been a saint.
She's been working for years.
(19:23):
During between takes,
she gestured me over.
She said, oh, come say hi, come say hi.
I don't know her personally, but I knew I
recognized her because
Asian actors all know her.
Is it do Asian actors all know each other
the way Irish actors,
Irish people know each other?
Oh, 100 percent.
Oh, 100 percent.
Anyway, so she was so sweet.
(19:43):
She goes, oh, you're doing a great job.
Come say hi.
You know, not the fact
that I needed a compliment.
It's just
acknowledgement that I was alive.
Yeah, you have to keep.
So that was very sweet.
I was doing I had to do off camera lines
later on for a for one
of the scenes between, you
know, a special scene between some of the
(20:04):
leads and the romantic leads.
Yep.
I had to do my lines off
camera for a certain cue.
There's a lot of stuff going on.
And then I have to give my cue because
I'm part of the party.
I said the cue at the wrong time, which
happens because they're
like, oh, yeah, where's the guy?
Where's the guy?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So OK, so say your line, right?
(20:27):
It's chaos, which is my point of how are
you running your set?
And I'm not blaming on them,
but I happen to make a mistake.
One of the romantic leads yells out and
to be honest, I thought he was trying to
get fired from the show.
That's what his attitude was.
He yells out.
He yells out.
Oh, yeah, it's real hard, right?
(20:48):
Oh, I know.
I don't know if I've
ever even told the story.
So just imagine you show up, you're paid.
It's a beloved TV show.
I'm not trying to
romanticize this experience.
I was like, hey, let's
just have a good experience.
I'm I'm here to do my job
and, you know, happily go home.
(21:10):
That happens.
And this guy, well, one of the leads
makes a point to have
that kind of attitude.
It was uncalled for.
No one protected me.
I didn't need anyone protected.
But my point is, is just imagine all the
ways that an actor could respond to that.
(21:32):
Yeah.
The first one that came to my mind was
like, you know, when someone beeps at you
in traffic for going too slow, for going
and you're just like, you know what?
I'm going to slow so much.
Exactly.
And it drives you crazy.
You can't really do that.
And I say you can't keep messing it up
over and over and over.
Right, right, right.
Exactly.
(21:53):
So imagine all the different ways that
you can react to this.
Yeah.
So do you cry?
Do you go do you run to your trailer and
you cry about it later?
Do you talk to your therapist?
Do you never act again?
I know some people have experiences doing
these small roles and say, I'm never
doing a day player, one line
and co-star.
I know some people who shunned acting.
(22:13):
Really?
These type of experiences.
Oh, yeah.
100%.
And it's one of those things was like,
hey, we were through a pandemic and we
were striking for four months.
I know a lot of people who
didn't want to act again.
I know a lot of people who just
hightailed in and said,
I'm moving back to Illinois.
We pay a price.
It's not all, it's not
all roses in this industry.
Yeah.
The question is, is it still worth us to
(22:37):
pay this price to be in this industry?
Be is what we love.
If you don't love acting and aren't
willing to earn your stripes growing up,
I'm sorry, not growing up, but building
your resume, working your way up the
ladder, training and getting skills.
If you don't have that and if you don't
(22:58):
want to say, I'm going to vote, devote 10
years of my life and that price is too
high for me to ask for
what I'm getting out.
I respect a lot of people
moving away from the industry.
Oh, Jesus.
I do too.
They say that.
Yeah, this is the, this is no different.
So if you say that, Hey,
this is how actors get treated.
I know a lot of people after the
negotiations say this.
(23:19):
Yeah, this is what
they think about actors.
This is what the
studio thinks about actors.
This is what they think about.
They're trying to create AI.
This is how little they think of actors.
I know some people who walked away from
the industry on that alone.
Yeah.
So this is my point
where, Hey, we're on a set.
This is a, you're not AIing me out, but
this is how a set could
(23:40):
be treating each other.
You just went to the
worst dinner party ever.
And the question is, is how quickly are
you going to be going
to another dinner party?
And that's my point because this is what
that party was like and
no one was protecting it.
I don't know what the drama was behind.
It's like, I don't
know what the drama was.
I don't know why
everyone was just stressed out.
(24:00):
I don't know if that person was trying to
get kicked off of the set or fired.
Right.
There was something else going on, but
down the row, this was
an experience where I'm
like, wow, that it's a great story.
It's a great story to have.
And it's a great little badge of honor.
People have had much worse stories, but
(24:21):
this is, you know,
when you're, when you're
the lowest on the call sheet or you're
low on the call sheet,
this is what you need
to be prepared for.
And you, this is how it, it, it, it,
across the board, we
have to protect ourselves
spiritually, emotionally, and our craft.
I've been yelled at in every job I've had
at some point, I think, you know what I
mean? Like, like it happens a lot.
(24:42):
Does it carry more weight on a set?
Do you think, is it more damaging because
of how hard it is to get there?
Is that a hundred
percent context is everything.
You're saying that, Hey, this is a
uncomfortable working
environment at, say,
Starbucks versus being on a set of a TV
(25:04):
show that millions of people are going to
watch. It's not just the stakes.
It's the context.
I used to bartend.
I used to work, I used to work catering
jobs is I cared so little for that job.
It did not matter how
much you belittled me.
That there was no
(25:25):
skin in the game for me.
And then you say someone, let's say,
let's paint a picture
of someone who loves to
act and someone who is, is so invested
emotionally and spiritually to do this
job and also put in perspective that a
lot of people would
love to be on a network
(25:45):
TV show.
Oh yeah.
It's a huge deal.
I, I, I, it is the
stakes and I realized that.
To be honest, you, you actually probably
love acting actually more than I do.
And it's the worst
experience of your life.
Yeah.
So, so it's the context of everything.
If you told me I have a horrible life
working at Starbucks for seven years, I'd
be like, yeah, okay.
(26:06):
That would just be my side job because
it's, it's allowing
me to focus on my main
job, which is acting now.
Most of my experiences were really
pleasant, but that's, that's kind of like
my point of going back to your friend
where it's like, he's like, I've been on,
I've been on a lot of shoots.
I made some friends, but sometimes they
were mostly disappointing.
The juice wasn't worth the squeeze.
But yeah, I thought that was a really
brave decision because they decided that
(26:27):
they didn't actually like the craft of
it, the job of it themselves.
I don't know if I may have talked about
this before, but they
didn't like the job.
They liked a lot of the things around it.
They liked, you know,
they liked the money.
They liked the, the sort of the ego boost
it gives you, you know, when people are
treating you well or
you see yourself on TV.
(27:00):
Uh, when you see people make big
decisions and protect themselves, it's,
it's, it's beautiful.
It's admirable.
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's people who
saw clarity, this
example, saw clarity during
the pandemic and say, I'm going to make
a, b, or c change and
completely change my life
(27:20):
because I've, I see,
I see the way forward.
I know a lot of actors who are incredibly
talented, stress balls.
Um, you rehearse with them and they look
like they're being
tortured, literally tortured.
And I wonder, uh, and they work, they
work and you know, it's
not all been pleasant and
(27:41):
straight up, but you wonder, do you
really hate this experience of acting?
Like, like if you told me that this was
the worst, worst part of
your day is, is rehearsing
for this scene.
I would have believed you and it kind of
goes back to, Hey, it's not all highs.
It's not all highs for everyone, but if
(28:02):
that is going to be your
life or the life of your
career at the end of the day, is that
price you're paying for
that emotional anguish worth
it?
I hope it is.
And I hope, I hope that everyone who's
still in the industry is,
is, is, is in it for their,
for the reason.
You know what I mean?
Well, that's our show everyone.
(28:22):
I enjoyed it.
If you get a chance, please leave a
review on YouTube or on sub stack.
We're on all social media
at actor's guide podcast.
See you next week.
Right off the bat, when I met the
creators and the head show
runners, it is kind of hilarious
because when I introduced myself, one of
them just had this look of confusion.
And I'm like, "Wait, confusion?"
When you got there?
I don't even know what the speculation, I
don't even know what it was about, but it
was confusion as in...
(00:22):
Guys, this guy is Asian?
Did anybody know he was Asian?
Did we know that?
I thought it was worse than that.
Hey, all.
Welcome to the Actors Guide to the End of
the World podcast
where we talk about acting
in Hollywood in a way people understand.
I'm your host, E-Kan
Soong, and I am on the road.
I'm a far off land.
(00:43):
I am excited to tell you about the trip
when I get back, but
until then, we have another
bonus episode.
This one's a little different.
I did some digging and found some
unreleased footage from a previous
episode that we never
got a chance to air.
It was a great conversation nonetheless.
Rian and I talk about
relationships we make on set.
(01:05):
Are they real?
Are they fake?
We discuss.
And we also talk about
worst on set experiences.
So that's a doozy.
Anyway, it's a great episode.
Hope you enjoy it.
Follow us wherever you find your podcast.
We're on YouTube.
We're on Substack.
Follow us wherever you find your social
media, at Actors Guide Podcast.
(01:27):
Make sure you follow, like, subscribe,
and if you get a chance
to read a review, we would
greatly appreciate it.
Hope you enjoy the episode.
Now, a word from our
sponsor for today's episode.
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Says your little friend literally shit
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Welcome to the Royal Academy for Dramatic
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(01:48):
Ruffalo, and Sir Patrick Stewart.
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The sense of community on any project,
whether it's good or bad,
they're good sets and they're
bad sets.
That's a bit reductive.
There are, you know,
sets that are tougher.
No, I think that's true.
There's good sets of bad sets.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(02:33):
just haven't worked in them
where like every part of this,
we're trying to make something.
And then you've only have
control over your own bit.
You don't have
control over anything else.
I have no control over
how something turns out.
It doesn't really matter.
You know what I mean?
All I can do is show up and do my thing.
But I love it.
I love being a part of that.
No, no, I think that's great.
I'll always use this metaphor.
(02:54):
It's the best party.
Being on a great set, being able to
collaborate in that way,
it's the best party.
Just enjoy it while it lasts, because
when the shoot is over,
you're going to be like leaving the party
and it's never going to happen again.
No, that collection of
people will never be together
in the same way again.
And that's, I think
that's really appealing to me.
(03:15):
And I talked to somebody recently,
they couldn't handle that part of it.
They realized that they, you know,
they liked a lot of the things around it,
but they just didn't
like the work itself.
And I think that overwhelmed them,
that it just, it felt fake or something.
But to me, I actually
loved the intensity of it.
(03:36):
I have lifelong
friends that I met, you know,
doing jobs that were so
intense and then they ended.
And that was okay,
because they're meant to end.
Like, for example, I did an indie movie
in Illinois last year.
Because we were in a
small, we're in a small town.
It's not a big city.
We're in the town of Champaign,
which if you don't know is a,
(04:00):
it's a college town in Illinois.
It's about two hours south of Chicago.
It was like being at summer
camp for adults, you know,
because we were all
in this place together
and I had such a blast.
And I, you know, it
was the kind of thing,
because I was on it from
start to finish, you know,
I was there for the whole time,
for the five weeks or whatever.
I was determined to just be present
(04:20):
and enjoy every second
of it and do everything.
You know what I mean?
Before going out, I was gonna go out.
watching people set up for shots. I'm so
fascinated by how people work.
(04:42):
And I love that. And you know, it's so
funny because I'm the
same way as an actor.
We have such a small part of the entire
puzzle, but I love seeing how shots are
constructed and how they produce things.
We're saying that some people have
trouble with the
intensity of the experience.
What, what, what, what, what, what, what,
what, what, what, what, what, what, what,
some people do, but I was talking to, I
(05:04):
don't know what that means is what I'm
saying. Like they didn't like the ups and
downs of how a shoot ends and they fell
like they didn't, they didn't enjoy it.
No, I don't think it was that I probably
didn't verbalize that very effectively,
but I think what I, what I got from it
was that it felt
because you feel so close to
(05:24):
people in that environment, because
you're working long hours, you're working
together, you're, you know, I think they
felt close to people.
And when it ended, I think they felt like
it diminished, like it was fake or
something. Like it
wasn't real, like it ends.
And then that's a really good point.
I love this.
This is something that we can dive into a
(05:44):
whole nother episode.
Let's do it now.
And it is.
Let's dive in now.
Let's say, for example, we go to the
party, we have super high expectations.
We want it to be the best party ever.
We want it to be the best shoot ever.
And sometimes they're disappointing.
Yeah.
And that's the, that's the game.
That's the role of dice.
You can't really force that.
You can't really create that.
(06:05):
But if it happens, I want to be
pleasantly surprised.
And I think it's, and I don't want to
judge whoever was having this
opinion, because I
think it's very relevant.
A lot of people are saying like, Hey, I
just had the great experience with
15 people and I don't talk to them
anymore after five years.
And I'm so disappointed because I thought
that there were going to be
really good friends and we lost touch.
(06:25):
And that's, I think that's what it is.
Yeah.
Hey, sometimes it all
doesn't end up how we hoped.
No, because I think it's jarring.
I think that's the thing.
It's a jet, like a.
people and you're like, Oh man, we're so
close. And then like you say,
you never hear from them again. You're
like, I thought we were close.
(06:46):
What was that? And I think you kind of,
you know, I think you can distrust the
whole process then, you know, and go,
whole experiences. Yeah.
And in a sense, it's
very, it is artificial.
You know what I mean?
It is an artificially intense
(07:07):
environment, but that's okay.
It's also ironic because we're people who
our job is to play pretend.
Yeah.
We go to a dinner party.
I keep using this party metaphor, but
it's just easy and relatable.
You love parties.
You're a party animal.
We go to a dinner party.
We have a great conversation and we
become, we think we become friends.
Yeah.
(07:27):
They're like, "I love
your Hawaiian shirt."
You're like, "Thank you very much."
And we realize, oh, they were just
networking or they were
just using me to ask a favor
and so on and so forth.
I don't go in there saying, "Hey, you
guys burned me before.
I don't want to get to know you because I
know that we're all
going to be chummy and
then it's going to be done and then we're
not going to talk to each other anymore.
So why am I going to bother?"
(07:49):
And so I understand protecting your heart
like that, but it's also interesting how
that could be projected by someone who's
like, "Yeah, no, I've
done this before and
I'm not going to do that again."
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right?
I mean, you can look at
that as relationships.
You could talk to them and say, "Well,
this happened to my
(08:10):
ex-girlfriend and I'm scared
to do it again."
I don't know that it's, yeah, that
extreme of like, "Oh, I'm
never going to get to..."
I think it was just a disappointing
experience for this particular person.
It was just
disappointing, which I understand.
Oh, I'm not knocking that.
I mean, here's the thing.
We can have a horrific experience on set.
I've had some unpleasant ones.
(08:31):
I wouldn't say horrific.
That could be so strong.
That could be so strong.
I never want to work as an actor again.
Sure.
Oh, absolutely.
I'm sure that happens all the time.
It's their choice to
whether they want to...
They enjoy the work or not.
Can you talk about any of those
unpleasant experiences on set?
I'd love to know.
Or are they not?
(08:52):
Can you not say?
Oh, I can talk about it.
I will just talk about the bullet points
of how it all went down.
And this is just loosely painting a
picture of what I call a bad set.
It was a big episode.
It was one of their
towards the end of the season.
(09:13):
Right off the bat when I met the creators
and the head show
runners, and I'm not going
to...
It doesn't matter what the...
Yeah, you don't have to
give any specifics at all.
It is hilarious because when I introduced
myself, one of them just had this look of
confusion.
And I'm like, "Wait, confusion?"
(09:34):
When you got there?
I don't even know what the speculation...
I don't even know what it was about, but
it was confusion as in...
Guys, this guy is Asian?
Did anybody know he was Asian?
Did we know that?
I thought it was worse than that.
I thought it was someone...
I rubbed someone the
wrong way and it was personal.
(09:56):
And of course, I'm just
going off of what I saw.
A deep confusion, and this
is introducing shaking hand.
No smile, no nothing, which is fine.
A deep confusion, and I
proceed to say, "Oh, I'm the..."
And I say my role.
I'm the da-da-da.
(10:16):
It's like, "Hello.
You did write this episode, right?
Is there something wrong here?"
I thought I might have triggered a
flashback to someone in
their life and it just flooded
them.
And I'm like, "Oh, okay.
Well, I'll just go
back to my trailer now."
So that's how the day started off.
(10:37):
Actually, technically, the day started
off me going over, driving
into parking and transpo.
I don't know the guys directing the
parking with their exact title.
They immediately shoot me out
and assumed I was background.
It was a big episode, first season, and
(10:58):
they were probably all stressed.
But my point is, is you add up all these
little things and it's
understood that it's really
stressful.
But the attitude of everyone going down
the row of, "Hey, I
would like to believe it all
(11:19):
trickles down from the top."
And I don't want to tarnish this
production because it's
very, very much beloved.
But I'm just saying that we dream of
being the number one on the call sheet.
We dream of running the show.
And I want to say that I
would not run a set like that.
But as soon as I go into parking, they
(11:39):
shoot me out, assume I'm background.
Of course, every principal actor is going
to get offended about that.
That's how the day starts.
Right.
I actually talked to somebody, another
actor friend of mine
recently, where somebody thought
he was background and
treated him poorly as a result.
And he got annoyed at them.
And they kept apologizing
and saying, "I'm so sorry.
I thought you were...
I didn't realize you're an actor.
(12:00):
I thought you were background."
And he was like, "You
shouldn't treat anybody like that.
Even if you thought I was background.
You should never
treat anybody like that."
And I think that's the lesson there.
It's like, "Oh, they
thought I was background."
Okay.
That doesn't give you
any less respect in there.
He's like, "I thought
(12:20):
you were a club human.
I thought you were just furniture."
That's a great point.
And it's also going back to the whole
union negotiations and
the meetings when you could
be in a meeting and understand and hear
concerns about people
who work puppets, people
who do stunts, people who do
specifically Spanish dubbing.
They all want their bills to be paid and
(12:42):
they all want to protect themselves.
And we can have respect for all of them,
but you're completely right.
It's like you treated them subhuman.
Oh, oh, that makes sense.
Yeah.
Oh, wait.
Here's the truth of it.
For now, until AI changes this, you
cannot make something
without background actors.
I mean, they're vital.
You need them in there.
You know what I mean?
(13:04):
So it's just, I don't know, even those
stories are a good lesson for me.
Treat everybody with respect.
You know what I mean?
Which sounds so basic and you shouldn't
have to say it, but absolutely do.
100%.
And that says what a good set is.
And also, I'll just add
this as a cherry on top.
When you hear stories that Tom Cruise
remembers everyone's name.
(13:26):
That's a story.
Tom Cruise remembers everyone's name.
I'm talking about in the production
office and on set, just
imagine the type of respect,
you know, regardless of what happens in
their personal lives,
you know, this is not part
of that conversation.
But, you know, we can easily knock these
top movie stars and
then we can also see, oh,
this is why they're a top movie star for
(13:48):
eons and generations
because that's how they run
a set.
So, you know, that's something that we
need to appreciate and
applaud more from our actors
in our top top top.
Absolutely.
I was doing a job one time and we were
doing a scene in like a
restaurant and at the end
of the day, one of the background actors
(14:08):
came up to say something to me.
He'd been there all day, you know, and he
starts talking to me and I could see the
ideas kind of like unsure
of what to do and panicking.
And he told me this like heartfelt story
about how his family would be so proud of
him and it was lovely.
It really was.
I was like, oh, thanks so much.
And I was, I shook his hand and I could
see the ideas kind of,
you know, panicking and
(14:29):
they sort of ushered him out.
And I was like, oh no, thanks a million.
I really appreciate it.
It was lovely talking.
And as a joke, I turned to one of the
ideas and went, don't
ever let an extra touch me
again.
And his face dropped and
I was like, I'm kidding.
He's lovely.
Stop.
Just relax.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
It's an important lesson.
It's an important lesson
because here's the thing.
Accidents and symptoms happen because of
(14:50):
past bad experiences.
Background actors talking, making stars
in a, you know, feel uncomfortable.
And it's one of those things where we
have to understand and
address that, hey, we want
to create an environment, but we can't
also make assumptions
about every actor, about every
background actor that they're going to
go, you know, cuckoo
(15:10):
whenever they talk to one
of the, one of the principal actors.
And I think that's, you know, that's,
that's one of those things to finish off.
The, that, that, uh, you know,
disappointing experience.
Now here's the thing.
I love the job and I
still get residuals from it.
So, you know, I'm just
putting in perspective.
This is, this is, that was
just the start of the day.
Oh, actually now I remember even, even a
couple other things.
(15:31):
So my scene was not heavy lifting.
I'm doing a big wide shot of
me, um, uh, doing the scene.
I didn't need too much direction.
It was fairly straightforward.
And you do your thing.
It's a big, it's a big, you
know, it's a big ballroom.
There's a, there's a lot of moving parts
when I'm essentially
(15:52):
doing the action and they
know that I'm rehearsing and, or maybe I
don't think I was
shooting, but I was doing a camera
rehearsal.
I don't even know his position, but it
was definitely not an
AD, but one of those guys
who is in charge of
the technical aspects.
I literally see him.
I'm in the head of the ballroom.
(16:14):
I literally see him directing cameras,
waving his hands, walking
towards me, you know, 50
feet ahead in a way, gesticulating his
arms, almost to make it a
point saying what we were
doing was not important.
So my point is, is, and I
(16:36):
think he was even talking.
That's a hell of a gesture by the way.
I'm trying to think what the gesture was.
Exactly.
You're, you're directing cameras or doing
all this stuff,
almost trying to make it a
show and me rehearsing was not more
important than whatever
the hell you were doing.
Okay.
(16:56):
It's just one of those things is like,
just imagine every audition
or every shoot, everything
you've done and someone in
front of you going like this.
That's what Christian Bale,
Christian Bale in trouble.
I know exactly.
It's also a great story for another
episode, but it's one of
those things where as an actor,
if you've been on set long enough, you'd
(17:17):
be like, I could see
why Christian Bale lost
his temper.
I mean, here's the thing.
It's like there was a chain of command
and I'm not saying I'm
at the top of chain of
command, but if you're running a set, you
have to understand
what your priorities are.
Maybe I wasn't that important of me
needing to say lines that
(17:38):
you guys sent me there to
do and him waving his arms, doing all the
cameras, maybe that was more important.
But my point is, is he's standing in
front of me, walking
towards me and I want to say
yelling.
It's not exactly
encouraging when I'm like, oh, okay.
So I guess we're going to roll one.
(17:58):
You know what I mean?
Yeah, actually that reminds me.
Here's one for you.
So I was talking to an actor one time, I
was talking to an
actor one time about he got
annoyed because they'd spent so long
setting up for a shot
and then they needed it.
They needed the shot.
They were like, we're losing light.
We need the shot done right away.
(18:20):
And he's like, hang on a second.
You guys spent forever setting this up.
One of the other actors stood up and
said, no, we're not doing it.
And everybody kind of got very awkward.
Someone said, well, I'm
the acting department.
You have the camera department, the
lighting department, we're
the acting department because
you don't always think of yourself as a
department, as an actor.
That's one of those things that I dream
(18:41):
that we would have the
power and the influence and
also the composure to say that.
So the icing on the cake, the icing on
the cake of all the things
because I just need to air
this out.
My coverage is pretty much done.
Two incidents happen with head stars.
(19:03):
One pleasant one, one very
pleasant one, not so pleasant.
During the rehearsals,
this is the pleasant one.
One of the heavy
recurrings and she's a saint.
She's a saint, especially if you're an
Asian in entertainment.
She's always been a saint.
She's been working for years.
(19:23):
During between takes,
she gestured me over.
She said, oh, come say hi, come say hi.
I don't know her personally, but I knew I
recognized her because
Asian actors all know her.
Is it do Asian actors all know each other
the way Irish actors,
Irish people know each other?
Oh, 100 percent.
Oh, 100 percent.
Anyway, so she was so sweet.
(19:43):
She goes, oh, you're doing a great job.
Come say hi.
You know, not the fact
that I needed a compliment.
It's just
acknowledgement that I was alive.
Yeah, you have to keep.
So that was very sweet.
I was doing I had to do off camera lines
later on for a for one
of the scenes between, you
know, a special scene between some of the
(20:04):
leads and the romantic leads.
Yep.
I had to do my lines off
camera for a certain cue.
There's a lot of stuff going on.
And then I have to give my cue because
I'm part of the party.
I said the cue at the wrong time, which
happens because they're
like, oh, yeah, where's the guy?
Where's the guy?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So OK, so say your line, right?
(20:27):
It's chaos, which is my point of how are
you running your set?
And I'm not blaming on them,
but I happen to make a mistake.
One of the romantic leads yells out and
to be honest, I thought he was trying to
get fired from the show.
That's what his attitude was.
He yells out.
He yells out.
Oh, yeah, it's real hard, right?
(20:48):
Oh, I know.
I don't know if I've
ever even told the story.
So just imagine you show up, you're paid.
It's a beloved TV show.
I'm not trying to
romanticize this experience.
I was like, hey, let's
just have a good experience.
I'm I'm here to do my job
and, you know, happily go home.
(21:10):
That happens.
And this guy, well, one of the leads
makes a point to have
that kind of attitude.
It was uncalled for.
No one protected me.
I didn't need anyone protected.
But my point is, is just imagine all the
ways that an actor could respond to that.
(21:32):
Yeah.
The first one that came to my mind was
like, you know, when someone beeps at you
in traffic for going too slow, for going
and you're just like, you know what?
I'm going to slow so much.
Exactly.
And it drives you crazy.
You can't really do that.
And I say you can't keep messing it up
over and over and over.
Right, right, right.
Exactly.
(21:53):
So imagine all the different ways that
you can react to this.
Yeah.
So do you cry?
Do you go do you run to your trailer and
you cry about it later?
Do you talk to your therapist?
Do you never act again?
I know some people have experiences doing
these small roles and say, I'm never
doing a day player, one line
and co-star.
I know some people who shunned acting.
(22:13):
Really?
These type of experiences.
Oh, yeah.
100%.
And it's one of those things was like,
hey, we were through a pandemic and we
were striking for four months.
I know a lot of people who
didn't want to act again.
I know a lot of people who just
hightailed in and said,
I'm moving back to Illinois.
We pay a price.
It's not all, it's not
all roses in this industry.
Yeah.
The question is, is it still worth us to
(22:37):
pay this price to be in this industry?
Be is what we love.
If you don't love acting and aren't
willing to earn your stripes growing up,
I'm sorry, not growing up, but building
your resume, working your way up the
ladder, training and getting skills.
If you don't have that and if you don't
(22:58):
want to say, I'm going to vote, devote 10
years of my life and that price is too
high for me to ask for
what I'm getting out.
I respect a lot of people
moving away from the industry.
Oh, Jesus.
I do too.
They say that.
Yeah, this is the, this is no different.
So if you say that, Hey,
this is how actors get treated.
I know a lot of people after the
negotiations say this.
(23:19):
Yeah, this is what
they think about actors.
This is what the
studio thinks about actors.
This is what they think about.
They're trying to create AI.
This is how little they think of actors.
I know some people who walked away from
the industry on that alone.
Yeah.
So this is my point
where, Hey, we're on a set.
This is a, you're not AIing me out, but
this is how a set could
(23:40):
be treating each other.
You just went to the
worst dinner party ever.
And the question is, is how quickly are
you going to be going
to another dinner party?
And that's my point because this is what
that party was like and
no one was protecting it.
I don't know what the drama was behind.
It's like, I don't
know what the drama was.
I don't know why
everyone was just stressed out.
(24:00):
I don't know if that person was trying to
get kicked off of the set or fired.
Right.
There was something else going on, but
down the row, this was
an experience where I'm
like, wow, that it's a great story.
It's a great story to have.
And it's a great little badge of honor.
People have had much worse stories, but
(24:21):
this is, you know,
when you're, when you're
the lowest on the call sheet or you're
low on the call sheet,
this is what you need
to be prepared for.
And you, this is how it, it, it, it,
across the board, we
have to protect ourselves
spiritually, emotionally, and our craft.
I've been yelled at in every job I've had
at some point, I think, you know what I
mean? Like, like it happens a lot.
(24:42):
Does it carry more weight on a set?
Do you think, is it more damaging because
of how hard it is to get there?
Is that a hundred
percent context is everything.
You're saying that, Hey, this is a
uncomfortable working
environment at, say,
Starbucks versus being on a set of a TV
(25:04):
show that millions of people are going to
watch. It's not just the stakes.
It's the context.
I used to bartend.
I used to work, I used to work catering
jobs is I cared so little for that job.
It did not matter how
much you belittled me.
That there was no
(25:25):
skin in the game for me.
And then you say someone, let's say,
let's paint a picture
of someone who loves to
act and someone who is, is so invested
emotionally and spiritually to do this
job and also put in perspective that a
lot of people would
love to be on a network
(25:45):
TV show.
Oh yeah.
It's a huge deal.
I, I, I, it is the
stakes and I realized that.
To be honest, you, you actually probably
love acting actually more than I do.
And it's the worst
experience of your life.
Yeah.
So, so it's the context of everything.
If you told me I have a horrible life
working at Starbucks for seven years, I'd
be like, yeah, okay.
(26:06):
That would just be my side job because
it's, it's allowing
me to focus on my main
job, which is acting now.
Most of my experiences were really
pleasant, but that's, that's kind of like
my point of going back to your friend
where it's like, he's like, I've been on,
I've been on a lot of shoots.
I made some friends, but sometimes they
were mostly disappointing.
The juice wasn't worth the squeeze.
But yeah, I thought that was a really
brave decision because they decided that
(26:27):
they didn't actually like the craft of
it, the job of it themselves.
I don't know if I may have talked about
this before, but they
didn't like the job.
They liked a lot of the things around it.
They liked, you know,
they liked the money.
They liked the, the sort of the ego boost
it gives you, you know, when people are
treating you well or
you see yourself on TV.
(27:00):
Uh, when you see people make big
decisions and protect themselves, it's,
it's, it's beautiful.
It's admirable.
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's people who
saw clarity, this
example, saw clarity during
the pandemic and say, I'm going to make
a, b, or c change and
completely change my life
(27:20):
because I've, I see,
I see the way forward.
I know a lot of actors who are incredibly
talented, stress balls.
Um, you rehearse with them and they look
like they're being
tortured, literally tortured.
And I wonder, uh, and they work, they
work and you know, it's
not all been pleasant and
(27:41):
straight up, but you wonder, do you
really hate this experience of acting?
Like, like if you told me that this was
the worst, worst part of
your day is, is rehearsing
for this scene.
I would have believed you and it kind of
goes back to, Hey, it's not all highs.
It's not all highs for everyone, but if
(28:02):
that is going to be your
life or the life of your
career at the end of the day, is that
price you're paying for
that emotional anguish worth
it?
I hope it is.
And I hope, I hope that everyone who's
still in the industry is,
is, is, is in it for their,
for the reason.
You know what I mean?
Well, that's our show everyone.
(28:22):
I enjoyed it.
If you get a chance, please leave a
review on YouTube or on sub stack.
We're on all social media
at actor's guide podcast.
See you next week.
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