Welcome to the Actor’s Guide to the End of the World Podcast, Episode 52! We get back to the ongoings in the industry, and it’s a lot of bad (surprise), but there’s some good too. Casting Networks, the casting site that most actors need to subscribe to, announced major changes about charging fees to agents and managers. (Video attached below.) E-Kan and Rían talk about the repercussions and what actors need to know, as well as speculation of AI entering the casting industry which brings up the question - would AI replace casting directors, and what would that look like…
But some great news as well- California has huge push for projects coming into the state, including Heat 2, a Daniels film, and a Jumanji movie. Also, Rían’s Rainmaker just got picked up for another season! The guys also share lessons learned from recent guest Brian Stepanek and hugely successful director David Nutter who recently spoke at Lesly Kahn Studios. Some real dimes in this one, you’ll want to hear this.
We also have another Reddit Rundown, where we go into the hottest topics on the actor subreddit, and an actor sent cold emails to top 60 agencies ranked on IMDB, and the results might surprise you.
Follow @actorsguidepodcast on all podcast platforms, including video on YouTube and Substack.
Leave a review if you enjoy the podcast, it really helps others find us. Also follow @actorsguidepodcast on all social media!
@ekansoong @riansheehykelly
HIDDEN GEMS:
NY Ferry - https://www.ferry.nyc/
https://tubitv.com/movies/100047053/glamping
Time stamps:
(0:00) Intro
(2:10) Brian Stepanek afterparty
(6:11) David Nutter hugely successful director talks about his process
(16:35 ) Where the younger generation will learn
(18:12) Casting Networks announces changes that might devastate actors
(28:00) Will AI replace casting directors?
(36:00) Big projects coming to LA and California
(37:20) Reddit Rundown- An actor sent cold email to top 60 agencies
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
AI analyzing your self
tapes for gestures, features,
and using that to
streamline the casting process.
AI could analyze a bajillion self tapes.
These are all match our
physical specs features.
These are all the
intonations and the facial features.
(00:21):
And it could, you know,
essentially do it in a blink of a second.
Now that's insane.
Forget about watching
self tapes for four seconds.
This is a whole nother level.
All right.
Welcome to the Actors Guide
to the End of World Podcast
where we talk about acting in Hollywood
and why people understand I'm E-Kan Soong.
I'm Rían Sheehy Kelly. How you doing?
(00:42):
What's up buddy?
Follow us wherever you find your podcasts
at Actors Guide Podcast
or on all social media
at Actors Guide Podcast.
So we have video on YouTube on sub stack
on all social media at
Actors Guide Podcast.
All right.
We talk a lot about the chaos
that is happening with casting networks.
(01:03):
Uh oh.
We talk about AI in
casting among all things.
We talk about some highlights
from our Brian Stepanek episode,
some things that suck
out to us that resonated.
And also we have a hot
Reddit story, the Reddit rundown.
We dive into the best
(01:23):
bits of the acting subreddit.
It's called the Reddit rundown
and we have a hot one this week.
So you don't want to miss that.
The Reddit rundown is a,
I will say the Reddit
rundown is a working title.
We may come up with a better name for it.
We could call it have you read it?
Reddit rebels.
No, that's not gonna work.
(01:44):
Speaking of send us your ideas on titles
at Actors Guide Podcast at gmail.com.
Now a word from our
sponsor for today's episode.
Does your pet get the yips in auditions?
Does your little friend literally shit
the bed at callbacks?
Welcome to the Royal
Academy for Dramatic Barks
where your puppies will be trained
by acting legends, Ellen Barkin,
Mark Ruffalo
(02:05):
And Sir Patrick Stewart.
Sign up today.
So let's just get into it.
We have an amazing show.
We haven't done it yet,
but I just have a good feeling about it.
We have a lot to talk about.
Well, that's just show doomed.
Yeah, I know that's a kiss to death.
So Brian Stepanek, we
(02:26):
had him on last week.
It was packed, a lot of wisdom.
There's a couple of
things that I thought were
just stuck out to me.
So I just wanted to, you know,
for our little after party here, we'll
start off with that.
When he started out his career,
he didn't, he basically
said, I'm gonna do everything
or at least be open to doing everything.
He had a story with his father about how
(02:47):
he was about to sign an agent.
He said, and his father said, well,
you should get them to
sign you for voiceover too.
And so Brian's like, yeah, why not?
Why should be able to, I
should just try to do everything.
And this idea that there was no,
there was this
openness and he would just,
he was just an actor who wanted to work.
(03:10):
There was no ego.
There was no humility.
I'm sorry.
There was a lot of humility.
There was no ego.
He was a star on the Disney channel.
He made tons of money doing commercials
and he wanted to work
and he has a family in a house.
So it seems interesting that he started
directing musical theater.
Like that was, you know,
(03:30):
the first kind of thing
he had done was direct musical theater
and understood that world
and how he translated that
into kids TV and beyond.
And then also big action
movies and Michael Bay films
and all kinds of different work.
But yeah, bounced
around genres and styles.
(03:50):
Obviously, Leslie Khan comes into play
and he was able to
kind of hone those skills,
but I haven't, I
don't know a lot of actors
that have been able to
do that successfully.
Also, you know, it's
like also that great story
about how his agent told him not to take
the sweet life of Zack and Cody.
So the role he's most known for,
his agent told him not to take it.
(04:12):
It's funny because, you
know, the past few weeks
we've been talking
about how actors can focus
and pick a lane.
And according to Brian,
he didn't have any ideas
of what type of actor he wanted to be.
He just wanted to act
and he just wanted to work.
Well, I think that's
a good lesson as well.
And like you said, there is no one lane.
It's really whatever works for you.
It's whatever, I think, whatever approach
(04:36):
helps you to enjoy it the most.
And for some people
that's like laser focus,
I want this, I want, you know,
and take every step they
can to get towards that thing.
For some people it's just to work.
I, you know, I see the merit in the
different approaches.
For me, it's just a combination of a lot
of different things.
(04:56):
I just pull from
different advice I've heard
and how people approach it.
I like, I really enjoy hearing,
and that's like, that's a
big part of this podcast for me
is like, I really enjoy
hearing other people's experience
because it helps me sort of
figure out what I believe.
And I pick up things from
people that I then employ.
And maybe I get to look at
(05:18):
something in a different way.
And yeah, I find that
really just really interesting.
I do think that improv
background is so helpful as well.
Like the Second City
background and sketch and improv.
I really, I see that
help a lot of actors.
And like, you know, when I
was training at Second City,
I was so in awe of people there.
(05:39):
I really just, funny people and
improvisers, you know,
when they're good, just blow my mind.
It's such a great skill.
There's such a, there's a
real joy in that availability
to whatever's just
coming to you, just listening
and taking it on board.
(06:01):
Yeah, that's a great point.
So he had musical theater.
He obviously was very
successful at Second City
and that translates to
the commercials for sure.
Yeah. So yeah,
that's a really good skill to have.
You know, I was just
on the listening thing.
I just went to a talk with
TV director, David Nutter,
who's a, you know, has had a brilliant--
(06:21):
Oh, you went to that?
Yeah, it was excellent.
This is at Lesley Khan's studio.
They invite people in once a month to
have a kind of a Q&A.
And David Nutter came back.
He's actually been in a little while ago.
He was in as well, but
he's a really interesting guy
and I loved his take on
his career and on directing
and how he approaches it.
But he worked with Jonathan Price.
(06:44):
He directed Game of Thrones
just briefly on his, you know,
resumes for people who
aren't familiar with him.
He's directed everything.
I mean, he directed an
episode of the Sopranos.
He directed a bunch of
episodes of Game of Thrones.
He directed an episode of
a few episodes, I think.
Definitely one episode of the West Wing.
You know, he was
called the pilot whisperer
because he was so
good at directing pilots,
but his approach to
(07:04):
directing was that he--
Wow.
He has to feel it, he said.
And he said that early in his career,
he wasn't very technically aware.
Like he didn't have a
ton of technical knowledge
about lighting and cameras necessarily,
but what he knew he
was good at was he knew
how to make people care about something.
(07:25):
And so he goes, it
has to have heart in it.
And it shows when he
described the things,
like he directed the X-Files
and he's just had an incredible career,
but he was working with the actor,
Jonathan Price, British
actor, who was phenomenal.
Like one of the best actors around.
Yeah, he's great.
For a long time.
And he wanted to, he said
(07:47):
he wanted to compliment him,
but he didn't want to, you know,
he don't want to come
across as like a sort of a fanboy
or anything, you know,
because they were working together.
But he said, the
compliments he gave him was he said,
you're the best listener
I've ever seen on film.
And, which is incredible.
And that is such a skill.
(08:09):
I mean, you can see when
an actor is really listening
and it's a good reminder to me,
because, you know, all
of the elements of this
are really important, I find.
And listening is so important in acting.
And it's an easy thing to forget
(08:29):
because it seems so obvious and trite,
but it's, yeah, I
thought that was a beautiful,
a beautiful compliment
in a way of looking at it.
Not only is it easy to forget,
I think it's harder to
do even in our day and age
with all the
distractions and all those things.
I mean, if you're walking around,
I think a lot of people are just not
(08:49):
listening in general.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, forget about it.
You know, acting, it's literally our job
and we still forget.
So David Nutter is primarily a director.
Yeah.
He's not a writer.
No, I don't think so.
Yeah, that's quite a career.
I'm jealous of you guys.
Sounds like a great talk.
(09:10):
So a big time director comes in
and talks to a room full of actors.
Like, was there kind
of like an overarching,
was he kind of just
telling stories about his,
what he looks for and
what he, about his life?
Or what was the--
There wasn't any, he came in
and then he just gave a
(09:31):
little bit of his background.
Here's a little bit about me.
Here's where I started.
And then people just asked him questions.
And I think because
of the way he started,
people asked him questions.
He wasn't so much about specific projects
or how do I get this?
It was more about his
approach to directing,
which was really,
I just thought it was a really brilliant
(09:52):
way of approaching directing.
I mean, it's all,
he told us about his first film was about
Vietnam and Vietnam vets
and the trauma that
that had inflicted on them.
And he talked about his
own life and his own career,
but it was more about the why of,
(10:15):
like why he does what he
does and how he approaches it.
And it was a really
insightful kind of a talk
that didn't feel at all
like anybody was trying to
sell themselves to him.
You know what I mean?
It was a very organic
kind of a chat where
people were just asking how,
where do you think that came from?
(10:36):
Or the heart that you talk about,
like how do you approach?
What sells a script for you
when he gets approached with a project?
Like what is it that
makes the final decision?
And he has to feel it.
It was just a, he's a remarkable guy.
And at the moment he's
working with a group of Norwegian
actors who have come
over for a few weeks.
And he's doing like a showcase with them
(10:58):
where he's rehearsing scenes with them.
So it was really cool
to meet them as well.
And like they kept coming up to me going,
yeah, they were there.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm gonna go see their
performance tomorrow.
Yeah, I saw that email.
I saw that email.
That's awesome.
That's something going on for me.
But they kept coming up to me going,
(11:18):
you're the Irish guy.
And I was like, yeah, like,
cause they're doing scenes,
they're doing scenes
from some Irish stuff
and some like a Martin McDonough play.
And I think one of, and the Banshees of
the country as well.
(11:48):
Yeah, I mean, they had a very specific context,
but sorry, that was a bit
of a tangent there with just.
No, no, no, that was good.
Let's talk about that.
So this whole thing
about the feeling stuff.
It's interesting.
And I, you know, we don't
need to spend too much time on
because it's so
subjective and kind of theoretical,
but I think it speaks
to that deeper reason
(12:08):
why that you were talking about that.
I think us as actors and
I guess artists in general
need to kind of hone,
because if a director says,
well, I'm always figuring out what the
audience is feeling,
it's us as actors, how
do we actually do that?
You know what I mean?
It's like, we want to
get away from how we feel
(12:30):
as we often talk about at the studio.
It's not about how the actor feels,
it's about how the audience feels.
It's about how we were
making the audience feel
in our performance and
our listening as well.
You know what I mean?
So I'm just kind of,
it's just interesting
when you have a bunch of
actors hear that from a director,
but I think where the real craft is,
is how do we actually start executing
(12:52):
and being able to hone
those skills in our performance?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I think that's why it's
valuable to hear other people's,
like in other jobs,
like their take on things,
because it can get a bit myopic, I think,
when it's all, when
you're just, you know,
talking to actors about acting.
(13:13):
There are, it's interesting to hear
what other people look for as well,
or how they do their jobs.
Like the way he
directs, he was talking to,
he said he never yells
because he doesn't need to.
He's like, that's not his style.
One thing I thought he
said, which was brilliant,
he's like, it was just
something that he'd heard early on
(13:33):
when he started directing, goes,
I heard early on a piece of advice
that someone gave him was
to treat adults like kids
and treat kids like adults
when you're directing them,
which is very interesting.
I don't know if he stuck to that,
but like that was just
some advice that he had heard.
Yeah, that's great advice.
I think it is.
Wow.
(13:55):
All right, so any other
things from David Nutter?
No, it was just a really brilliant chat.
It was just really great
to hear his experience.
He did talk about specific shows as well,
which I was like really interested in,
because I, like the
West Wing and Sopranos
are two of my favorite shows,
it was really great to
hear his experience of that
and his experience with
(14:16):
David Chase, who ran Sopranos.
David Chase stayed very
close to the show the whole time.
I mean, I think he kept
a pretty close control
over the whole thing and it shaped it.
And it shows, I think,
because the themes that
followed through Sopranos,
it feels like a very
cohesive show all the way through.
There's arcs through seasons
(14:36):
and there's arcs
through the whole series.
There's themes that
come up again and again.
So he's the guy, as far as
Sopranos went, he was the guy.
And his experience
with him was really good.
And he said, I said,
what was it like dropping into a show
that was so well established?
He directed the episode
where Tony's been shot
(14:58):
and he's in a coma.
And in the coma, he has
this kind of coma dream
where he's another person.
He's like a salesman.
He's lost his briefcase.
And it's a really cool
episode, but he directed that.
But talking about dropping into that
and he said he was nervous going in
(15:18):
because this is such a great show.
Wow. Yeah, yeah.
And then the West Wing--
Well, hold on.
I'm looking at it, that was six seasons.
So he's literally
dropping in for one episode
in the sixth season, that's insane.
Yeah, in one of the
greatest shows of all time.
And then the West Wing,
he was talking about
doing the walking talks
(15:38):
and like bumping into furniture.
Because it's so, you know what I mean?
It's such a style.
And he said, Alison Janney was great.
You know, he just, I don't know,
he's just had a
wonderful, wonderful career.
And he's so, his perspective on it,
like he was so grateful
for the career that he's had
(15:58):
and talked about how fortunate he's been.
And yeah, just a really wonderful guy.
Well, that's cool.
Okay, well, let us know next week
how the performance goes
with all the Norwegians.
Absolutely. He brought them all over
to LA, that's crazy.
I hope they brought their sunblock.
Yeah, I mean, they're all going around
(16:18):
and they're meeting with every,
because he knows everybody too.
So they've met with a load of people
and going to groundlings and they're
doing all the LA things.
It's a short trip, but they're like,
they're really getting a
great view of LA, you know?
They're getting an overview.
One last thing about Brian Stepanek.
We talked about how he didn't hold on
(16:39):
to anything too tightly,
but the fact that how open-minded he was
when he started his
podcast is just this idea that,
hey, obviously he's a
long-standing teacher,
he's a great actor.
He had a lot of wisdom to pass on.
And he just felt like,
this is the way that I can kind of help
the younger generation.
(17:01):
They might be struggling.
And this is the way for
him to pass on the wisdom
and teaching.
And I think that's,
that's looking ahead,
embracing social media.
He talked about embracing TikTok
and he's not above anything.
And I thought he did a lot of good sense
(17:21):
because, hey, he's looking
to see how this industry turns
and he's ready to pivot
just like anyone else.
And it really resonated with me
because way back when we
first started doing our podcast,
I had that revelation a long time ago.
We talked about it before.
When I embraced creating my own stuff,
(17:43):
social media, starting to do YouTube,
a really wise friend
basically said to me,
and I was shocked when she said it.
She goes, this is how
young people are gonna learn.
Podcasting, YouTube,
maybe you can throw
in social media there,
but that can scare a lot of people,
but here we are and it's not looking to
change anytime soon.
(18:03):
I thought he was on point.
And if I'm gonna trust anybody,
I would trust Brian for sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
So enough for the fun stuff.
This is the word around town.
Since last we spoke to all
you guys, it just so happened.
There's a lot that
happened in the actors community.
You guys probably have heard online.
(18:23):
There's a lot going on
with casting networks.
New changes have been announced.
And in my humble opinion,
it could be devastating
for the middle-class actor.
They are going to start
charging agents and managers.
They are going to start
charging agents and managers fees.
They just decide agents and managers
are going to be charged more,
(18:45):
the bigger their
roster. Their roster, yeah.
Meaning that it behooves them to pay less
by cutting and trimming their rosters.
It just makes sense.
And why wouldn't the agent take a flyer
on a new talent when they're like,
okay, I gotta worry
about my actors right now.
(19:06):
And a lot of them aren't working.
And then on top of it,
the more actors I bring on,
I'm going to pay more fees,
which I haven't for the 15 years.
So needless to say, the
industry is getting tight
and this is an insane
time for that to happen.
And here we go.
So I think it's a huge
(19:27):
blow to the middle-class actor
who is going to be
working more commercials,
which are on casting networks.
It is owned by talent
services, actually talent systems,
talent systems, which
owns spotlight in the UK.
So all our friends across the pond,
these changes very well
could be coming over to them.
First of all, all the
agents and managers freaked out.
(19:48):
There was a huge
petition that was going around.
A week ago, there was 4,000,
there was basically 4,000 signatures in,
I don't know, three or four days.
The word was getting around.
People were flooding casting
networks, canceling accounts.
I was checking in with
my agent, I was like,
"Hey, just checking in.
(20:09):
I heard how it's going."
And at that time,
these changes were
supposedly pushed to January.
So we can talk about
social media and all that stuff
and maybe even this podcast.
Hey, does this do any good?
Getting the word around,
it's kind of amazing
because it sometimes works.
(20:33):
They pushed the fees to January.
My agent said, "Hey, just so you know,
I know a lot of people are
canceling their accounts.
Don't do anything rash yet.
We're busy negotiating."
Yeah, I think there's a
couple of issues here.
One is, I think one is systemic.
So one is just the model of-
Dreed?
No, sorry.
(20:54):
One is the model of exponential growth,
which we've seen is the
problem with streaming services
as well, or one of the
problems with streaming services
is that you can only
get so many subscribers.
So when you have
shareholders that you're trying to
increase the value of,
you're trying to
increase the value for them
of your company, like talent systems,
where do you go?
(21:15):
Because there's only so many actors
that can pay subscription fees.
So then you look, so to show growth,
you have to go to the next logical step,
which for them is agents.
So that's part of the problem,
because when you run this type of system,
that's a for-profit system,
which people are required to be a part of
in order to get work.
(21:36):
There's only so much,
you can only mine actors for so much.
And also, actors tend to make the least
in this industry of
anybody, by and large.
So that's an issue.
The model itself is kind of flawed
because how do you keep making money?
How do you show growth?
So that's one issue.
(21:57):
Two, the only power we
have against those systems
is collective bargaining.
And it's gotten to the point now
where there are so many
different casting sites.
Now, talent systems
own four or five of them.
So you're paying a lot of
different subscriptions,
or you could be paying a
lot of different subscriptions
to the same company.
And then also you've actors access
on the other side for theatrical stuff.
(22:18):
But there is an uproar about it
now that agents are being charged.
There has been--
Which is ironic.
Right.
Which is ironic because, well, also,
you're completely right, actors access
has already been charging agents and
managers already anyway.
The model and the tiers were different,
but they were already being charged.
(22:38):
So, and then on top of it, this uproar,
and here's the thing, obviously,
I totally forgot the bright side.
The bright side is, is, hey,
we're all kind of banding together
agents, actors, managers,
and so on, and a lot
of people are leaving
casting networks for a different website.
Right now, apparently a lot of people
are moving to
casting.com, but it's just funny
(22:59):
how we were up roaring for years,
yet now there's a petition
and there's some movement.
I mean, to be fair, there has been,
and my agents, my reps have
always been great about it.
Like they've put out messages
about casting networks for a long time
and saying, please
don't, for a long time,
my theatrical agency was,
(23:21):
we were sending videos to
them and they would upload them.
So we didn't, as actors,
didn't have to pay subscription fees
because they
understand how unfair that is.
Wait, that was in America?
Yeah, here. In America?
Yeah.
So they understood for a long time
how difficult this makes life for actors
because there are so many casts involved
in just staying in the game.
(23:43):
Casting websites, headshots, classes,
everything costs, you know what I mean?
Everything costs money.
And if you're not
working, all of that money
is just going out and you're using,
a lot of people are using a side job
to support that money, to stay in acting
when it's mostly
outgoing and not incoming.
100%. 100%, rather.
But my agents have always
been very mindful of that.
(24:04):
And they understand
that that pricing system
is very tough on actors.
And it has gone up.
It went up again recently.
Casting networks has increased their fees
a few times over the years.
And that was some of the issue
with the actors' access terms of service.
Because I know there are a number of
class action lawsuits
against talent system.
(24:25):
We have that one.
Yeah, so it's a system
that's not sustainable.
I think that model of like,
we pay all of this money out.
Because I'm a member of Spotlight too.
So I have to be a member of Spotlight
if I want to work in Ireland and the UK.
That's kind of the part of the deal.
(24:46):
So you're in Spotlight.
Yeah, yeah, I pay Spotlight membership
as well as actors'
access and whatever else.
But the, when you add this all up,
it's like, it's a very expensive,
it's just, it feels very unfair.
And I don't think
charging agents is fair either.
You know what I mean?
Like there has to be a
(25:07):
better way for this to operate.
And I understand there are
costs involved in all of this.
And they are a private
company that has taken this on.
The problem with that is
like, there's no other way.
You don't have an option really.
You have to use these websites.
So they have a kind of a monopoly.
Yeah, if you want to be a
commercial, you gotta be a member.
(25:28):
Well that's the point. We have casting.com.
Yeah, we have casting.com
that's finally coming up as an option.
And also this is another talking point.
A lot of the actors
keep harping on iactor.
iactor was a website that sag after
was in the works of
trying to get up and running.
A hundred percent, we've
talked about this enough.
And unfortunately
(25:48):
they don't have the money
to get it to be effectively run.
They're already short staff
and they have too many
other things to worry about.
And to get a site
that's actually comparable
is not in the ballpark,
but that is a big
point of contention that,
(26:11):
hey, we wanted our own site.
We wanted our own database.
It's not even mediocre.
It's actually way below mediocre.
So that's one thing.
This might be the push
to get to casting.com.
Casting.com is gonna be a
lot more friendly with fees,
we hope.
For those who might be wondering,
Financier, Redbird Capital,
(26:32):
they took over talent
systems three, four years ago.
They're a big player.
They were dealing with the Paramount,
Skydance merger.
They got big pockets.
And they also are funding Ben Affleck
and Matt Damon's production company.
So they were heavily in Hollywood.
And this dude is,
the Redbird Capital's,
(26:55):
they're really going for it.
They're really going for it.
Yeah, and look, of course
there's costs involved in this.
I understand.
I'm not saying that
everything should be free
all the time to everybody.
I understand there are
costs involved in these systems
and servers and upkeep of
websites and everything else.
It's just when you own
a number of different
(27:15):
casting websites and
then we're sort of required
to be a member of each of them,
what's that about?
You know what I mean?
Well then, then you're just preying on
people who don't
really have another option.
You're like, well, you could be a member
of Casting Frontier or
casted talent or whatever.
You can't just have all of it.
(27:36):
You can't be firing out
hundreds of dollars every month
to be a member of six
different casting websites
just to get a shot at the same jobs
you would have if there were one.
You know what I mean?
So moving on, there's actually,
it actually gets better.
It gets better.
Tempted to play clown music,
just circus music
just to lighten this up.
You know, it's like,
(27:57):
(vocalizing)
I'm gonna put that in.
I don't know how long we'll play.
Maybe you could just sing it.
You saw this video.
There was this video circulating.
This is part of a bigger design.
Casting Networks has
been incorporating AI tools.
And I'm actually friends
(28:17):
with the guy who did this video.
It was really circulating.
I think you saw it, you know,
a bunch of us, people
were sending it to me.
It was kind of going into
this thing about how agents
and managers are kind
of like just collateral.
They're fine with agents and managers
possibly leaving the site
because the end goal is
that AI will be casting
(28:42):
and it will be a direct
link to actors and brands.
Which is really scary.
I mean, this is the
scariest part of all of this
is that they would cut out,
you know, agents and use AI.
Eventually they'll get some money
from agents and managers
and then they'll push them out
and maybe there's no agents and managers.
We love you agents and managers,
(29:03):
but hypothetically Casting Networks
might not even want you.
And so if there's a bunch of actors
who are willing to
subscribe and hungry to work,
then they would pay a subscription
to get direct casting to brands
and then just use AI as a
funnel into their projects.
Now I will say, you know,
I saw a lot of people share this video.
(29:24):
A lot of, I'm friends with, with Jeff.
Who knows, depending on where this goes,
we actually might eventually have him on.
He's actually the chair of
the Hollywood Communications
committee for SAG after.
Okay.
You share this video and
this is not a knock against him.
I never saw the story of
(29:46):
the CEO of Casting Networks
actively saying this was the plan
is to eliminate
casting directors and use AI.
I'd be surprised if he did say that.
I mean, that'd be a
crazy fucking thing to say.
So that's not like my point.
So to be fair, because
obviously I share a lot
of these things online.
(30:08):
Most of my videos are mostly
things that I know for sure
and have evidence of,
and I'm not knocking Jeff.
I just couldn't find it for myself.
Because it sparked a
lot of fear hit this plan.
I wasn't sure if he was speculating,
but I personally did not see that story.
So I want everyone to essentially stop
freaking the fuck out.
That being said, it
(30:30):
is an interesting story
and it's something that
we should keep an eye on
because it is true that
there are sites using AI
to help cast.
There are services like that.
So just imagine when I read
it, I was like, oh my God,
I can't believe this is real.
(30:52):
There is the possibility of AI
analyzing your
self-tapes for gestures, features,
and using that to
streamline the casting process.
Now, it's not a far
stretch that casting networks
will start incorporating these tools.
They'll get your, you know,
(31:12):
get your feet a little wet
and get you used to using the tools.
You're like, oh, isn't this nice?
How your job is so much
easier now that you can, you know,
use the casting, you know, these AI
tools, streamline it.
AI could analyze a bajillion self-tapes.
Okay, these are all match
our physical specs features.
These are all the
intonations and the facial features.
(31:35):
And it could, you know, essentially do it
in the blink of a second.
Now that's insane.
And forget about watching
self-tapes for four seconds.
This is a whole nother level.
This is a whole nother level.
So that very well, that
very well could happen.
So here we are, you know, locked in arms
(31:57):
with our casting director,
friends, agents, managers,
and hoping that humans
still are in our business.
I swear to God, the more I hear about AI,
the fucking less I want
anything to do with it at all.
I just, it seems to
be, every time I hear it,
I'm like, it's the bad seems to have far
away the good of it.
And I'm sure, I know there
are good applications of it,
(32:18):
but my God, is it sucking the life
out of everything at the moment?
I just, not to be pessimistic or
negative, but Christ.
I'm just so sick of hearing about it.
Like every time I hear of it in
connection to something,
I think, well,
there's somebody's job gone.
That's the first thing
that comes into my head.
I'm like, all right,
well, that's somebody's job.
That doesn't exist.
(32:40):
Yeah, just the automation of everything,
this is just a general
note, but like the automation,
even when you go to the airport and like,
there's all these
kiosks and you check your bag
and then there's one
person instead of people at,
people on the desk checking people in.
It's just like one person watching
everybody's bag on air.
Like it's just,
everything's getting more and more
and more and more
(33:01):
automated and less personal
and less flexible as a result,
because there is no way to go.
I got theory for you.
I got theory.
I know that you had your run-ins
with those little Waymo
food bots or whatever,
but what, I'd go to a
restaurant every so often in Philly
and they have a robot busser.
(33:23):
They have a busser to,
Yeah.
It's a whole that's,
brings out the dishes
and how old the place,
and you see them around, right?
Yeah.
I'm not gonna lie.
They have a couple servers there
that's been working there forever.
I think their
service, the humans got worse
as the robots got in,
(33:44):
like I think they've,
they're checked out.
I think they're checked out.
I think the service got worse
when they got this robot help.
And I don't know.
I, it might be an image
of the rest of society
when we started going to
get automated and robotified.
I went to a Lakers game
downtown a couple of weeks ago
(34:04):
and I was pulling into the car park.
Looking you Jack Nicholson.
Yeah, I know dude.
My pal, Amy was in town from Sydney.
A friend of mine from
school, from high school,
secondary school, but I
was pulling into the car park
and there was like a
robot thing in front of me
that was blocking the way.
And I don't know what
(34:25):
the purpose of it was.
It was like a little robot
security guard or something.
I couldn't, it was like
moving around in the driveway.
I was like, what the fuck is this thing?
And it wouldn't get out of the way.
And eventually it sort of
moved off to the side, but like,
Wow.
We are living in the future that we saw.
You know what I mean?
As this robot wasn't
around all over the place.
I mean more and more driver
(34:45):
Waymo still freaked me out.
Like every time I say Waymo,
look in the driver's
seat and the passenger seat
and there's two seats
there and a steering wheel
and nobody in it.
I'm like, this is bananas.
How are we here?
It's just very awkward.
I also don't trust them to not,
like I'm very cautious
when I'm doing anything
around the Waymo, cause I'm like,
(35:06):
I don't know if I trust this, you know.
I think that's fair.
I don't think there's anybody on the route either.
But like, I'm like, this thing,
this thing glaze is out.
So needless to say, it's gonna get tight.
It's gonna get a little
tight around during the holidays
in our industry, but you can trust us.
We're gonna have eyes on it.
(35:26):
You know, and I'll
actually the one thing,
and I'm not joking when I say this.
If you have a good agent,
this is the time when
you have a good agent,
thank your lucky stars,
you know, send them a love,
give them a hug.
I don't wanna get too sentimental here,
but yeah, if you have a great agent,
be very, very happy and
grateful because they're not,
(35:48):
I mean, it's tricky.
Oh, actually I wanted
to throw this out there.
So this is a bright spot.
We just got news, more word around town.
We just got news that
there are many, many projects
coming to Los Angeles.
One, namely, Heat 2.
Michael Mann is bringing
back Heat 2, shooting in LA.
(36:10):
We got a Jumanji film.
We got Bill Murray
projects, the Daniels movies.
We got a, this all just got announced.
They got more movies,
more films and projects
coming into California.
So that is a bright spot
and keep trucking along.
On the good news train, I
just wanna give a shout out.
The Rainmaker was renewed for season two,
(36:32):
which is huge for everybody involved.
Are you serious?
Yeah, which is brilliant.
USA Network is a show that
I was involved in last year.
Which just finished airing,
but they got renewed for season two.
So that's great news for everybody.
Michael Seitzman, the
showrunner and all the cast,
Milo and Lana and PJ Byrne.
Dude, congrats man.
(36:54):
You got a breaking news.
This is as of
yesterday of us recording this.
So congratulations to everybody involved.
I'm thrilled for everybody.
I just, you know, it's
great to see it come out
and do so well and get renewed.
Just on the theme of agents,
I browsed the acting subreddit.
(37:15):
The Reddit rundown.
Yeah, you can't really pray to that
when I came up with that earlier.
Already Reddit.
Shit names aside.
So I read this post this morning,
which I thought was very interesting
because, you know, people talk about,
actually talk about reps a lot.
They talk about agents a lot
and changing reps and getting reps.
And getting reps.
(37:36):
But what I saw this
morning was a post from an actor
and I went back down through the post
to kind of gather a bit more information.
But basically the title is,
I cold submitted to 60 talent agencies
listed in the IMDB top 1000.
So these would be the top
talent agencies in the US
and some of them in the world.
(37:57):
Some of them would be international,
but they'd be pretty, you know,
they'd be pretty,
in a lot of people's
eyes, unapproachable agencies.
But so out of the 60 submissions,
and basically this actor,
he sent a very basic email,
which is basically, here's my stuff.
You know, I'd love to, I'd
love to hear more from you,
but he sent his headshots,
(38:19):
his IMDB pro and his resume.
And out of the 60 submissions,
nine agencies responded,
which is quite a high number.
Two asked for self tapes,
one passed and one scheduled to zoom
and later offered representation.
Two asked for zoom meetings,
both offered representation.
One requested an in-person meeting
and also offered representation.
One requested more
(38:40):
materials than ghosted.
Three replied, but
lagged on replying felt iffy
and didn't move forward.
So out of 51 agencies
did not respond at all,
but he got nine
responses, which is pretty good.
So 16 sent, sorry, 60 emails sent,
no response from 51, got nine replies
and four agencies offered representation
from cold submissions.
(39:00):
That is a pretty, those
are pretty good numbers,
to be honest.
And to send- Terrific
numbers, terrific numbers.
To send 60 emails is not that hard.
It sounds like a lot of
emails, but it's not that hard
because you're basically
sending the same thing.
You're just
personalizing to every person going,
"Hey, here I am."
He actually put the text of his email,
which I think a lot of
(39:20):
people would be interested in
because that's, a lot of people don't
know how much to say
or, you know, how much
personality do they put in?
How long is it?
But he kept it short,
which I think is sort of instrumental.
Yeah, go ahead, read that.
He said, "It was a version of this.
My name is," blank, "I
am an actor living in,"
whatever market he's in, I don't know,
(39:40):
"I am seeking either commercial or
theatrical representation.
I have included links to my work.
Thank you for your time."
And then the links.
And that was it.
That's a really
straightforward, very simple email
because there's a tendency
to feel like you need to ask
in a certain way or sort of disguise it
as something else as well when it's not.
(40:01):
Everybody knows what a submission is.
They understand it, you understand it.
I'm submitting my work to you,
obviously to talk about representation.
Here it is, thanks for your time.
And I think that
simplicity would serve people,
would serve actors if they are
approaching agencies.
You don't have to, you know, put a load
of flowers around it
to kind of make it seem more palatable.
(40:22):
It's, you know, at the end of the day,
they know what you're doing.
Now, maybe some agents feel that,
and I'd love to hear
people's take on it, but...
I thought it was very
interesting how stripped down
and simple this email was.
There's no, like, a lot of
(40:42):
people are trying to crack,
showing their personality,
trying to stand out on a cold email,
which is almost impossible.
A lot of people arereferral only.
So this is... His results are amazing.
Anyway, I just want to put that,
because I'm pretty shocked,
because I try to be
pretty simple with my emails,
but that's way less
(41:02):
personality that even I have,
than I would have
assumed would be successful.
I agree.
It was... I haven't seen it
put that strip down before.
But it was interesting
that that got responses.
And it speaks to kind of the theme of it.
It speaks to kind of the amount of time
that people have to spend
to read these emails,
(41:22):
if they even read them.
You know, you're being
respectful of their time, too.
And I guess if you
have a decent bodywork...
Now, this actor, I will just
say a couple of things a bit.
This actor, he described...
He's a male, 25 to 35.
His ethnic
background, he's Cuban, he said,
but looks Caucasian.
So that's just to give you
(41:44):
male, 25 to 35, Cuban heritage,
looks Caucasian.
That's what he has said about
himself and his demographic,
because people did ask.
And people also asked about his credits.
So let's just give a picture here.
People asked about his credits.
He has a couple of co-stars,
and he just did a guest star.
And this was before the pandemic.
(42:05):
So he's newish enough, but
still, you know, a new talent.
Yeah, absolutely.
But before the pandemic
is a while ago, you know,
that's... to get that
kind of response from credits
that are like 2019 and
(42:25):
back, that's pretty good.
And it speaks to...
I think there's an
assumption in a lot of people,
because I've been guilty
of this, you know, as well,
where I feel like people
don't want to hear from me,
you know what I mean?
I feel like... and that's maybe partly a
cultural thing as well.
There's a bit of an Irish aspect of that.
So you started a podcast.
I started a podcast, so I
(42:46):
wouldn't shut the fuck up,
so people have no
choice but to listen to me.
Every week.
But there's a thing about, I
don't want to bother people.
There's a kind of an attitude.
I don't want to bother
them. I'll leave them alone.
It's culturally not that acceptable or
celebrated in Ireland to like...
You just be yourself up or brag about
yourself, you know what I mean?
(43:07):
It's just not that kind of
culture, you know what I mean?
Yeah, the tall puppy syndrome.
Yeah, like that Australian concept of
tall puppy syndrome.
A little bit of that, but also slightly
different in that like,
"I know, I'll just leave them alone."
The tendency is towards humility to a
fault, you know what I mean?
(43:27):
Where it's sort of like overly humble or,
you know, I don't want to...
"I know, I wouldn't say anything."
I don't want to brag about anything.
So there's some of that that I still have
to deal with every so often
in myself where I have to go, "Just
fucking... life is too
short. Just contact people."
You're also doing them a favour.
(43:48):
Like if you believe in yourself, you're
offering value to them as well.
It's not like it's a one-sided favour.
"Oh, we'll take you on as a favour to
you." It's not about that at all.
Here's a working
relationship, you know what I mean?
This is what I bring. If
that's something that, you know,
you think will bring value to you and to
your agency, great. Let's work together.
So I have to take some
(44:08):
of the emotion out of it.
I will add, I think that's great. And,
you know, this is,
you know, to juxtapose,
part of the reason why we want to talk
about this is as bleak as it
might be on testing networks.
Here we go with a great response. This is
a current recent story.
And this guy got
commercial representation.
This guy got
representation from being bold.
(44:29):
And I will add about this whole thing
about, you know,
putting yourself out there.
There's nothing...
This is the lowest bar
is sending a cold email.
Like that is the lowest bar
of putting yourself out there.
It is, but it's very difficult for
people. You know, mentoring.
I know that. I don't want to disrespect
(44:50):
it. I'm just putting in perspective.
I know. I get what you're saying. Yeah.
Versus back in the day, I literally, and
I'm scared to do it now.
You know, a lot of people say you got to
get on the phone, get on the phone.
A lot of people are
making cold phone calls.
And I remember back in the day, I would
make a cold phone call to an agent.
(45:11):
I would be so stuttering. I
would be sweating bullets.
I have, and I can't even
verbatim repeat it to you.
I have had the most
embarrassing cold phone calls.
You would have thought
it was out of a TV show.
And my point is, once I got into that,
like cold email, I'll blast it all day.
(45:33):
It's like, it's like, I'm celebrating
these cold emails anyway.
So to wrap up, I run out. Did you mention
that whole talent link?
Did you mention that?
So I haven't gotten to that part yet. So
then, so there's a
thing called talent link,
which you can do through Actors Access
where basically, I
think you pay a small fee
and then you can then they will submit to
(45:54):
agents on your behalf or
maybe you submit through them.
I don't know exactly how it works.
I used a similar one a few good few years
back where a similar type of thing where
you send emails out to a
bunch of cast and directors.
All right. Sorry, agents rather. So
through talent link,
you can do this as well.
So he also, after he had done these cold
submissions submitted through
(46:15):
talent link and through that,
six agencies offered him representation.
Two were across the board representation
and four were commercial only.
What was interesting about it was two of
the agencies that had that hadn't
responded to his cold emails did respond
through talent link.
So maybe that's a way that's another way
to do it. But I think that's great.
(46:37):
I think it's great because I think it's
all valid. They're all I
mean, they're all valid ways of.
But the fact that he did both and had a
sort of a comparison but also got a
response from the cold emails.
It's great to know that talent link. Hey,
it works for some people.
The email us actors guide podcast at
Gmail. If you you know, if you have
stories about this, some people have
success on talent link.
(46:57):
And it also goes to show you we don't
know if they even open up these emails.
Maybe he got the wrong email.
Maybe he got the wrong assistant. Maybe
the assistant was snoozing that day.
So there it goes to show you that
sometimes emails not reliable. And we
hope we have you don't know
about that part of the story.
So it's not the fact that talent was more
successful. It's the fact that someone
didn't get his email.
One thing I will add and I will be
(47:19):
careful the way I say this because as an
ethnic actor, I know a lot of people will
be like, oh, well, you got advantages
because you're Asian because I've been
hearing that all like everyone who's
ethnic hears that all the time.
And so the point is is is I can say that
(47:43):
his type 25 to 34, you know, young.
We didn't see his headshot of Cuban, but
also looks Caucasian. That's kind of a
great look that would
fit on a lot of rosters.
I know some actors are thinking about
that. And I'm just throwing that out
there where, you know, we try to be as
(48:04):
objective with these numbers as possible.
Yet we needed all this information. And
part of the reason why we're doing this
post is because we got so much
information and it shows a really good
insight into, hey,
this is what this guy did.
And it was successful even despite how
tight our industry is right now. So
absolutely. I think it's and it's just
he's not he's not offering any advice.
(48:26):
He's just giving his experience. He's
like, this is what I
did. This is what happened.
So I think there's a lesson no matter,
you know, and there's roles for
everybody. You know what I mean? There's
roles for every type.
As long as you're not white. I'm still
getting roles, man. I'm still getting
roles. I was just seeing
if you would get that one.
But like, you know, I would not let that.
(48:49):
That's going to stay in
the podcast. Yeah. Of course.
But people get so upset about this stuff.
You know, people get very passionate
about it. I'm like, guys, fucking relax.
Well, I think we all need to come by and
hold hands, hold hands. We're going to
get through this together.
Find an agent manager, hold their hand,
give them a hug. A casting director.
(49:12):
We're going to get this together.
You know what? Don't call the email cast
directors. Don't hold their hands. Yeah.
But, you know, it's a testament to just
putting yourself out there and really
just not worrying about how it comes
back. You know, like there's something.
Especially at a time when like a lot of
people are just a lot of pessimism.
(49:33):
People are like, oh, we're all, you know,
the industry is in a
terrible state. And maybe it is.
But it just is what it is right now. You
know what I mean? Like there's no, we
can't change the industry. So you can
just, all you can control is your
reaction to it or how you, or the actions
that you take or don't take.
And to a certain degree, your attitude.
You know what I mean? You can control
your attitude towards it too. So I don't
(49:54):
know. I like hearing sort of success
stories from actions like that. You're
like, okay, great.
Good for you. You know?
I will say, just be respectful of
people's time. You know, don't be, you
don't have to be pushy. You don't have to
be, just don't be a dick. And, you know,
be polite and
understand that people have...
(50:15):
We're going to get done on hats. That's
going to be our tagline. Don't be a dick.
Yeah. Just be sound. Just be sound, guys.
Let's do hidden gems. Let me knock mine
out. It was recent. It was fine. I'm in
New York. And my sister had tickets to
the NYC, well, the New York ferry. The
New York ferry is essentially a slower
(50:37):
transport. Instead of taking a stuffed
subway train, you could just hop a ferry.
You're in the gorgeous Hudson River.
Don't drink it. But you're in the
gorgeous Hudson River. I saw, I got, I
call it sunset, beautiful skylines,
landscapes. I had a great time. One
(50:58):
ticket is $450. You could buy a bunch and
they're, you know, you could buy a pack
and they're $290. But it's not a bad
ride. And then free transfers for two
hours. I was having a bowl. My office
was, was North, sorry. Yeah.
I will say in Chicago, the water taxi is
very similar. You can take the water taxi
up to Chicago River. I haven't done that.
It's British. You can take it from Navy
(51:19):
Pier all the way up. Like it's class. So
I love that. I love that. The ferry on
the Hudson. It's a fun, cheap little boat
ride. Enjoy yourself. So that's my,
that's my hidden gem. Great hidden gem.
Mine is a very special one. It is a film,
which is out now on Tubi as
of today called "Glamping".
(51:41):
Written by Rosemary Adisi, who's a
phenomenal, just a wonderful person and a
really great writer. She wrote this as a
short film. She wrote this and made it as
a short, submitted it to Tubi as part of
a competition and won the whole thing.
And it has been made into a feature.
There are some people from
(52:01):
Leslie Kahn involved in it too.
I had the pleasure of meeting Rosie and,
you know, she was prepping the prep in
the film and stuff. And she's just a joy
to be around and like, just a, she's a
great writer. She's a great actor. She
just has a great approach. She's very
positive. And it's so cool to see this
(52:22):
get turned into a movie, you know, which
is being produced by Tubi, I believe. I
think Issa Rae is a producer on it as
well. It's like a, you know,
it's turned into a big film.
I believe the budget that they initially
offered, they increased it. So, yeah. So
the movie is called "Glamping". It's out
now on Tubi. Written by Rosemary. She's
(52:44):
also in the movie. And I'm really excited
for it. It's like a horror, you know,
it's like a kind of a fun horror movie
that has like sort of echoes of the early
90s kind of teen horror
movies, which are really fun.
It's great. It's great. There you go. All
(53:06):
right. Well, that's our show. Have a
great week. We'll be back next time. Hope
you enjoyed it. See you next week.
AI analyzing your self
tapes for gestures, features,
and using that to
streamline the casting process.
AI could analyze a bajillion self tapes.
These are all match our
physical specs features.
These are all the
intonations and the facial features.
(00:21):
And it could, you know,
essentially do it in a blink of a second.
Now that's insane.
Forget about watching
self tapes for four seconds.
This is a whole nother level.
All right.
Welcome to the Actors Guide
to the End of World Podcast
where we talk about acting in Hollywood
and why people understand I'm E-Kan Soong.
I'm Rían Sheehy Kelly. How you doing?
(00:42):
What's up buddy?
Follow us wherever you find your podcasts
at Actors Guide Podcast
or on all social media
at Actors Guide Podcast.
So we have video on YouTube on sub stack
on all social media at
Actors Guide Podcast.
All right.
We talk a lot about the chaos
that is happening with casting networks.
(01:03):
Uh oh.
We talk about AI in
casting among all things.
We talk about some highlights
from our Brian Stepanek episode,
some things that suck
out to us that resonated.
And also we have a hot
Reddit story, the Reddit rundown.
We dive into the best
(01:23):
bits of the acting subreddit.
It's called the Reddit rundown
and we have a hot one this week.
So you don't want to miss that.
The Reddit rundown is a,
I will say the Reddit
rundown is a working title.
We may come up with a better name for it.
We could call it have you read it?
Reddit rebels.
No, that's not gonna work.
(01:44):
Speaking of send us your ideas on titles
at Actors Guide Podcast at gmail.com.
Now a word from our
sponsor for today's episode.
Does your pet get the yips in auditions?
Does your little friend literally shit
the bed at callbacks?
Welcome to the Royal
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where your puppies will be trained
by acting legends, Ellen Barkin,
Mark Ruffalo
(02:05):
And Sir Patrick Stewart.
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So let's just get into it.
We have an amazing show.
We haven't done it yet,
but I just have a good feeling about it.
We have a lot to talk about.
Well, that's just show doomed.
Yeah, I know that's a kiss to death.
So Brian Stepanek, we
(02:26):
had him on last week.
It was packed, a lot of wisdom.
There's a couple of
things that I thought were
just stuck out to me.
So I just wanted to, you know,
for our little after party here, we'll
start off with that.
When he started out his career,
he didn't, he basically
said, I'm gonna do everything
or at least be open to doing everything.
He had a story with his father about how
(02:47):
he was about to sign an agent.
He said, and his father said, well,
you should get them to
sign you for voiceover too.
And so Brian's like, yeah, why not?
Why should be able to, I
should just try to do everything.
And this idea that there was no,
there was this
openness and he would just,
he was just an actor who wanted to work.
(03:10):
There was no ego.
There was no humility.
I'm sorry.
There was a lot of humility.
There was no ego.
He was a star on the Disney channel.
He made tons of money doing commercials
and he wanted to work
and he has a family in a house.
So it seems interesting that he started
directing musical theater.
Like that was, you know,
(03:30):
the first kind of thing
he had done was direct musical theater
and understood that world
and how he translated that
into kids TV and beyond.
And then also big action
movies and Michael Bay films
and all kinds of different work.
But yeah, bounced
around genres and styles.
(03:50):
Obviously, Leslie Khan comes into play
and he was able to
kind of hone those skills,
but I haven't, I
don't know a lot of actors
that have been able to
do that successfully.
Also, you know, it's
like also that great story
about how his agent told him not to take
the sweet life of Zack and Cody.
So the role he's most known for,
his agent told him not to take it.
(04:12):
It's funny because, you
know, the past few weeks
we've been talking
about how actors can focus
and pick a lane.
And according to Brian,
he didn't have any ideas
of what type of actor he wanted to be.
He just wanted to act
and he just wanted to work.
Well, I think that's
a good lesson as well.
And like you said, there is no one lane.
It's really whatever works for you.
It's whatever, I think, whatever approach
(04:36):
helps you to enjoy it the most.
And for some people
that's like laser focus,
I want this, I want, you know,
and take every step they
can to get towards that thing.
For some people it's just to work.
I, you know, I see the merit in the
different approaches.
For me, it's just a combination of a lot
of different things.
(04:56):
I just pull from
different advice I've heard
and how people approach it.
I like, I really enjoy hearing,
and that's like, that's a
big part of this podcast for me
is like, I really enjoy
hearing other people's experience
because it helps me sort of
figure out what I believe.
And I pick up things from
people that I then employ.
And maybe I get to look at
(05:18):
something in a different way.
And yeah, I find that
really just really interesting.
I do think that improv
background is so helpful as well.
Like the Second City
background and sketch and improv.
I really, I see that
help a lot of actors.
And like, you know, when I
was training at Second City,
I was so in awe of people there.
(05:39):
I really just, funny people and
improvisers, you know,
when they're good, just blow my mind.
It's such a great skill.
There's such a, there's a
real joy in that availability
to whatever's just
coming to you, just listening
and taking it on board.
(06:01):
Yeah, that's a great point.
So he had musical theater.
He obviously was very
successful at Second City
and that translates to
the commercials for sure.
Yeah. So yeah,
that's a really good skill to have.
You know, I was just
on the listening thing.
I just went to a talk with
TV director, David Nutter,
who's a, you know, has had a brilliant--
(06:21):
Oh, you went to that?
Yeah, it was excellent.
This is at Lesley Khan's studio.
They invite people in once a month to
have a kind of a Q&A.
And David Nutter came back.
He's actually been in a little while ago.
He was in as well, but
he's a really interesting guy
and I loved his take on
his career and on directing
and how he approaches it.
But he worked with Jonathan Price.
(06:44):
He directed Game of Thrones
just briefly on his, you know,
resumes for people who
aren't familiar with him.
He's directed everything.
I mean, he directed an
episode of the Sopranos.
He directed a bunch of
episodes of Game of Thrones.
He directed an episode of
a few episodes, I think.
Definitely one episode of the West Wing.
You know, he was
called the pilot whisperer
because he was so
good at directing pilots,
but his approach to
(07:04):
directing was that he--
Wow.
He has to feel it, he said.
And he said that early in his career,
he wasn't very technically aware.
Like he didn't have a
ton of technical knowledge
about lighting and cameras necessarily,
but what he knew he
was good at was he knew
how to make people care about something.
(07:25):
And so he goes, it
has to have heart in it.
And it shows when he
described the things,
like he directed the X-Files
and he's just had an incredible career,
but he was working with the actor,
Jonathan Price, British
actor, who was phenomenal.
Like one of the best actors around.
Yeah, he's great.
For a long time.
And he wanted to, he said
(07:47):
he wanted to compliment him,
but he didn't want to, you know,
he don't want to come
across as like a sort of a fanboy
or anything, you know,
because they were working together.
But he said, the
compliments he gave him was he said,
you're the best listener
I've ever seen on film.
And, which is incredible.
And that is such a skill.
(08:09):
I mean, you can see when
an actor is really listening
and it's a good reminder to me,
because, you know, all
of the elements of this
are really important, I find.
And listening is so important in acting.
And it's an easy thing to forget
(08:29):
because it seems so obvious and trite,
but it's, yeah, I
thought that was a beautiful,
a beautiful compliment
in a way of looking at it.
Not only is it easy to forget,
I think it's harder to
do even in our day and age
with all the
distractions and all those things.
I mean, if you're walking around,
I think a lot of people are just not
(08:49):
listening in general.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, forget about it.
You know, acting, it's literally our job
and we still forget.
So David Nutter is primarily a director.
Yeah.
He's not a writer.
No, I don't think so.
Yeah, that's quite a career.
I'm jealous of you guys.
Sounds like a great talk.
(09:10):
So a big time director comes in
and talks to a room full of actors.
Like, was there kind
of like an overarching,
was he kind of just
telling stories about his,
what he looks for and
what he, about his life?
Or what was the--
There wasn't any, he came in
and then he just gave a
(09:31):
little bit of his background.
Here's a little bit about me.
Here's where I started.
And then people just asked him questions.
And I think because
of the way he started,
people asked him questions.
He wasn't so much about specific projects
or how do I get this?
It was more about his
approach to directing,
which was really,
I just thought it was a really brilliant
(09:52):
way of approaching directing.
I mean, it's all,
he told us about his first film was about
Vietnam and Vietnam vets
and the trauma that
that had inflicted on them.
And he talked about his
own life and his own career,
but it was more about the why of,
(10:15):
like why he does what he
does and how he approaches it.
And it was a really
insightful kind of a talk
that didn't feel at all
like anybody was trying to
sell themselves to him.
You know what I mean?
It was a very organic
kind of a chat where
people were just asking how,
where do you think that came from?
(10:36):
Or the heart that you talk about,
like how do you approach?
What sells a script for you
when he gets approached with a project?
Like what is it that
makes the final decision?
And he has to feel it.
It was just a, he's a remarkable guy.
And at the moment he's
working with a group of Norwegian
actors who have come
over for a few weeks.
And he's doing like a showcase with them
(10:58):
where he's rehearsing scenes with them.
So it was really cool
to meet them as well.
And like they kept coming up to me going,
yeah, they were there.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm gonna go see their
performance tomorrow.
Yeah, I saw that email.
I saw that email.
That's awesome.
That's something going on for me.
But they kept coming up to me going,
(11:18):
you're the Irish guy.
And I was like, yeah, like,
cause they're doing scenes,
they're doing scenes
from some Irish stuff
and some like a Martin McDonough play.
And I think one of, and the Banshees of
the country as well.
(11:48):
Yeah, I mean, they had a very specific context,
but sorry, that was a bit
of a tangent there with just.
No, no, no, that was good.
Let's talk about that.
So this whole thing
about the feeling stuff.
It's interesting.
And I, you know, we don't
need to spend too much time on
because it's so
subjective and kind of theoretical,
but I think it speaks
to that deeper reason
(12:08):
why that you were talking about that.
I think us as actors and
I guess artists in general
need to kind of hone,
because if a director says,
well, I'm always figuring out what the
audience is feeling,
it's us as actors, how
do we actually do that?
You know what I mean?
It's like, we want to
get away from how we feel
(12:30):
as we often talk about at the studio.
It's not about how the actor feels,
it's about how the audience feels.
It's about how we were
making the audience feel
in our performance and
our listening as well.
You know what I mean?
So I'm just kind of,
it's just interesting
when you have a bunch of
actors hear that from a director,
but I think where the real craft is,
is how do we actually start executing
(12:52):
and being able to hone
those skills in our performance?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I think that's why it's
valuable to hear other people's,
like in other jobs,
like their take on things,
because it can get a bit myopic, I think,
when it's all, when
you're just, you know,
talking to actors about acting.
(13:13):
There are, it's interesting to hear
what other people look for as well,
or how they do their jobs.
Like the way he
directs, he was talking to,
he said he never yells
because he doesn't need to.
He's like, that's not his style.
One thing I thought he
said, which was brilliant,
he's like, it was just
something that he'd heard early on
(13:33):
when he started directing, goes,
I heard early on a piece of advice
that someone gave him was
to treat adults like kids
and treat kids like adults
when you're directing them,
which is very interesting.
I don't know if he stuck to that,
but like that was just
some advice that he had heard.
Yeah, that's great advice.
I think it is.
Wow.
(13:55):
All right, so any other
things from David Nutter?
No, it was just a really brilliant chat.
It was just really great
to hear his experience.
He did talk about specific shows as well,
which I was like really interested in,
because I, like the
West Wing and Sopranos
are two of my favorite shows,
it was really great to
hear his experience of that
and his experience with
(14:16):
David Chase, who ran Sopranos.
David Chase stayed very
close to the show the whole time.
I mean, I think he kept
a pretty close control
over the whole thing and it shaped it.
And it shows, I think,
because the themes that
followed through Sopranos,
it feels like a very
cohesive show all the way through.
There's arcs through seasons
(14:36):
and there's arcs
through the whole series.
There's themes that
come up again and again.
So he's the guy, as far as
Sopranos went, he was the guy.
And his experience
with him was really good.
And he said, I said,
what was it like dropping into a show
that was so well established?
He directed the episode
where Tony's been shot
(14:58):
and he's in a coma.
And in the coma, he has
this kind of coma dream
where he's another person.
He's like a salesman.
He's lost his briefcase.
And it's a really cool
episode, but he directed that.
But talking about dropping into that
and he said he was nervous going in
(15:18):
because this is such a great show.
Wow. Yeah, yeah.
And then the West Wing--
Well, hold on.
I'm looking at it, that was six seasons.
So he's literally
dropping in for one episode
in the sixth season, that's insane.
Yeah, in one of the
greatest shows of all time.
And then the West Wing,
he was talking about
doing the walking talks
(15:38):
and like bumping into furniture.
Because it's so, you know what I mean?
It's such a style.
And he said, Alison Janney was great.
You know, he just, I don't know,
he's just had a
wonderful, wonderful career.
And he's so, his perspective on it,
like he was so grateful
for the career that he's had
(15:58):
and talked about how fortunate he's been.
And yeah, just a really wonderful guy.
Well, that's cool.
Okay, well, let us know next week
how the performance goes
with all the Norwegians.
Absolutely. He brought them all over
to LA, that's crazy.
I hope they brought their sunblock.
Yeah, I mean, they're all going around
(16:18):
and they're meeting with every,
because he knows everybody too.
So they've met with a load of people
and going to groundlings and they're
doing all the LA things.
It's a short trip, but they're like,
they're really getting a
great view of LA, you know?
They're getting an overview.
One last thing about Brian Stepanek.
We talked about how he didn't hold on
(16:39):
to anything too tightly,
but the fact that how open-minded he was
when he started his
podcast is just this idea that,
hey, obviously he's a
long-standing teacher,
he's a great actor.
He had a lot of wisdom to pass on.
And he just felt like,
this is the way that I can kind of help
the younger generation.
(17:01):
They might be struggling.
And this is the way for
him to pass on the wisdom
and teaching.
And I think that's,
that's looking ahead,
embracing social media.
He talked about embracing TikTok
and he's not above anything.
And I thought he did a lot of good sense
(17:21):
because, hey, he's looking
to see how this industry turns
and he's ready to pivot
just like anyone else.
And it really resonated with me
because way back when we
first started doing our podcast,
I had that revelation a long time ago.
We talked about it before.
When I embraced creating my own stuff,
(17:43):
social media, starting to do YouTube,
a really wise friend
basically said to me,
and I was shocked when she said it.
She goes, this is how
young people are gonna learn.
Podcasting, YouTube,
maybe you can throw
in social media there,
but that can scare a lot of people,
but here we are and it's not looking to
change anytime soon.
(18:03):
I thought he was on point.
And if I'm gonna trust anybody,
I would trust Brian for sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
So enough for the fun stuff.
This is the word around town.
Since last we spoke to all
you guys, it just so happened.
There's a lot that
happened in the actors community.
You guys probably have heard online.
(18:23):
There's a lot going on
with casting networks.
New changes have been announced.
And in my humble opinion,
it could be devastating
for the middle-class actor.
They are going to start
charging agents and managers.
They are going to start
charging agents and managers fees.
They just decide agents and managers
are going to be charged more,
(18:45):
the bigger their
roster. Their roster, yeah.
Meaning that it behooves them to pay less
by cutting and trimming their rosters.
It just makes sense.
And why wouldn't the agent take a flyer
on a new talent when they're like,
okay, I gotta worry
about my actors right now.
(19:06):
And a lot of them aren't working.
And then on top of it,
the more actors I bring on,
I'm going to pay more fees,
which I haven't for the 15 years.
So needless to say, the
industry is getting tight
and this is an insane
time for that to happen.
And here we go.
So I think it's a huge
(19:27):
blow to the middle-class actor
who is going to be
working more commercials,
which are on casting networks.
It is owned by talent
services, actually talent systems,
talent systems, which
owns spotlight in the UK.
So all our friends across the pond,
these changes very well
could be coming over to them.
First of all, all the
agents and managers freaked out.
(19:48):
There was a huge
petition that was going around.
A week ago, there was 4,000,
there was basically 4,000 signatures in,
I don't know, three or four days.
The word was getting around.
People were flooding casting
networks, canceling accounts.
I was checking in with
my agent, I was like,
"Hey, just checking in.
(20:09):
I heard how it's going."
And at that time,
these changes were
supposedly pushed to January.
So we can talk about
social media and all that stuff
and maybe even this podcast.
Hey, does this do any good?
Getting the word around,
it's kind of amazing
because it sometimes works.
(20:33):
They pushed the fees to January.
My agent said, "Hey, just so you know,
I know a lot of people are
canceling their accounts.
Don't do anything rash yet.
We're busy negotiating."
Yeah, I think there's a
couple of issues here.
One is, I think one is systemic.
So one is just the model of-
Dreed?
No, sorry.
(20:54):
One is the model of exponential growth,
which we've seen is the
problem with streaming services
as well, or one of the
problems with streaming services
is that you can only
get so many subscribers.
So when you have
shareholders that you're trying to
increase the value of,
you're trying to
increase the value for them
of your company, like talent systems,
where do you go?
(21:15):
Because there's only so many actors
that can pay subscription fees.
So then you look, so to show growth,
you have to go to the next logical step,
which for them is agents.
So that's part of the problem,
because when you run this type of system,
that's a for-profit system,
which people are required to be a part of
in order to get work.
(21:36):
There's only so much,
you can only mine actors for so much.
And also, actors tend to make the least
in this industry of
anybody, by and large.
So that's an issue.
The model itself is kind of flawed
because how do you keep making money?
How do you show growth?
So that's one issue.
(21:57):
Two, the only power we
have against those systems
is collective bargaining.
And it's gotten to the point now
where there are so many
different casting sites.
Now, talent systems
own four or five of them.
So you're paying a lot of
different subscriptions,
or you could be paying a
lot of different subscriptions
to the same company.
And then also you've actors access
on the other side for theatrical stuff.
(22:18):
But there is an uproar about it
now that agents are being charged.
There has been--
Which is ironic.
Right.
Which is ironic because, well, also,
you're completely right, actors access
has already been charging agents and
managers already anyway.
The model and the tiers were different,
but they were already being charged.
(22:38):
So, and then on top of it, this uproar,
and here's the thing, obviously,
I totally forgot the bright side.
The bright side is, is, hey,
we're all kind of banding together
agents, actors, managers,
and so on, and a lot
of people are leaving
casting networks for a different website.
Right now, apparently a lot of people
are moving to
casting.com, but it's just funny
(22:59):
how we were up roaring for years,
yet now there's a petition
and there's some movement.
I mean, to be fair, there has been,
and my agents, my reps have
always been great about it.
Like they've put out messages
about casting networks for a long time
and saying, please
don't, for a long time,
my theatrical agency was,
(23:21):
we were sending videos to
them and they would upload them.
So we didn't, as actors,
didn't have to pay subscription fees
because they
understand how unfair that is.
Wait, that was in America?
Yeah, here. In America?
Yeah.
So they understood for a long time
how difficult this makes life for actors
because there are so many casts involved
in just staying in the game.
(23:43):
Casting websites, headshots, classes,
everything costs, you know what I mean?
Everything costs money.
And if you're not
working, all of that money
is just going out and you're using,
a lot of people are using a side job
to support that money, to stay in acting
when it's mostly
outgoing and not incoming.
100%. 100%, rather.
But my agents have always
been very mindful of that.
(24:04):
And they understand
that that pricing system
is very tough on actors.
And it has gone up.
It went up again recently.
Casting networks has increased their fees
a few times over the years.
And that was some of the issue
with the actors' access terms of service.
Because I know there are a number of
class action lawsuits
against talent system.
(24:25):
We have that one.
Yeah, so it's a system
that's not sustainable.
I think that model of like,
we pay all of this money out.
Because I'm a member of Spotlight too.
So I have to be a member of Spotlight
if I want to work in Ireland and the UK.
That's kind of the part of the deal.
(24:46):
So you're in Spotlight.
Yeah, yeah, I pay Spotlight membership
as well as actors'
access and whatever else.
But the, when you add this all up,
it's like, it's a very expensive,
it's just, it feels very unfair.
And I don't think
charging agents is fair either.
You know what I mean?
Like there has to be a
(25:07):
better way for this to operate.
And I understand there are
costs involved in all of this.
And they are a private
company that has taken this on.
The problem with that is
like, there's no other way.
You don't have an option really.
You have to use these websites.
So they have a kind of a monopoly.
Yeah, if you want to be a
commercial, you gotta be a member.
(25:28):
Well that's the point. We have casting.com.
Yeah, we have casting.com
that's finally coming up as an option.
And also this is another talking point.
A lot of the actors
keep harping on iactor.
iactor was a website that sag after
was in the works of
trying to get up and running.
A hundred percent, we've
talked about this enough.
And unfortunately
(25:48):
they don't have the money
to get it to be effectively run.
They're already short staff
and they have too many
other things to worry about.
And to get a site
that's actually comparable
is not in the ballpark,
but that is a big
point of contention that,
(26:11):
hey, we wanted our own site.
We wanted our own database.
It's not even mediocre.
It's actually way below mediocre.
So that's one thing.
This might be the push
to get to casting.com.
Casting.com is gonna be a
lot more friendly with fees,
we hope.
For those who might be wondering,
Financier, Redbird Capital,
(26:32):
they took over talent
systems three, four years ago.
They're a big player.
They were dealing with the Paramount,
Skydance merger.
They got big pockets.
And they also are funding Ben Affleck
and Matt Damon's production company.
So they were heavily in Hollywood.
And this dude is,
the Redbird Capital's,
(26:55):
they're really going for it.
They're really going for it.
Yeah, and look, of course
there's costs involved in this.
I understand.
I'm not saying that
everything should be free
all the time to everybody.
I understand there are
costs involved in these systems
and servers and upkeep of
websites and everything else.
It's just when you own
a number of different
(27:15):
casting websites and
then we're sort of required
to be a member of each of them,
what's that about?
You know what I mean?
Well then, then you're just preying on
people who don't
really have another option.
You're like, well, you could be a member
of Casting Frontier or
casted talent or whatever.
You can't just have all of it.
(27:36):
You can't be firing out
hundreds of dollars every month
to be a member of six
different casting websites
just to get a shot at the same jobs
you would have if there were one.
You know what I mean?
So moving on, there's actually,
it actually gets better.
It gets better.
Tempted to play clown music,
just circus music
just to lighten this up.
You know, it's like,
(27:57):
(vocalizing)
I'm gonna put that in.
I don't know how long we'll play.
Maybe you could just sing it.
You saw this video.
There was this video circulating.
This is part of a bigger design.
Casting Networks has
been incorporating AI tools.
And I'm actually friends
(28:17):
with the guy who did this video.
It was really circulating.
I think you saw it, you know,
a bunch of us, people
were sending it to me.
It was kind of going into
this thing about how agents
and managers are kind
of like just collateral.
They're fine with agents and managers
possibly leaving the site
because the end goal is
that AI will be casting
(28:42):
and it will be a direct
link to actors and brands.
Which is really scary.
I mean, this is the
scariest part of all of this
is that they would cut out,
you know, agents and use AI.
Eventually they'll get some money
from agents and managers
and then they'll push them out
and maybe there's no agents and managers.
We love you agents and managers,
(29:03):
but hypothetically Casting Networks
might not even want you.
And so if there's a bunch of actors
who are willing to
subscribe and hungry to work,
then they would pay a subscription
to get direct casting to brands
and then just use AI as a
funnel into their projects.
Now I will say, you know,
I saw a lot of people share this video.
(29:24):
A lot of, I'm friends with, with Jeff.
Who knows, depending on where this goes,
we actually might eventually have him on.
He's actually the chair of
the Hollywood Communications
committee for SAG after.
Okay.
You share this video and
this is not a knock against him.
I never saw the story of
(29:46):
the CEO of Casting Networks
actively saying this was the plan
is to eliminate
casting directors and use AI.
I'd be surprised if he did say that.
I mean, that'd be a
crazy fucking thing to say.
So that's not like my point.
So to be fair, because
obviously I share a lot
of these things online.
(30:08):
Most of my videos are mostly
things that I know for sure
and have evidence of,
and I'm not knocking Jeff.
I just couldn't find it for myself.
Because it sparked a
lot of fear hit this plan.
I wasn't sure if he was speculating,
but I personally did not see that story.
So I want everyone to essentially stop
freaking the fuck out.
That being said, it
(30:30):
is an interesting story
and it's something that
we should keep an eye on
because it is true that
there are sites using AI
to help cast.
There are services like that.
So just imagine when I read
it, I was like, oh my God,
I can't believe this is real.
(30:52):
There is the possibility of AI
analyzing your
self-tapes for gestures, features,
and using that to
streamline the casting process.
Now, it's not a far
stretch that casting networks
will start incorporating these tools.
They'll get your, you know,
(31:12):
get your feet a little wet
and get you used to using the tools.
You're like, oh, isn't this nice?
How your job is so much
easier now that you can, you know,
use the casting, you know, these AI
tools, streamline it.
AI could analyze a bajillion self-tapes.
Okay, these are all match
our physical specs features.
These are all the
intonations and the facial features.
(31:35):
And it could, you know, essentially do it
in the blink of a second.
Now that's insane.
And forget about watching
self-tapes for four seconds.
This is a whole nother level.
This is a whole nother level.
So that very well, that
very well could happen.
So here we are, you know, locked in arms
(31:57):
with our casting director,
friends, agents, managers,
and hoping that humans
still are in our business.
I swear to God, the more I hear about AI,
the fucking less I want
anything to do with it at all.
I just, it seems to
be, every time I hear it,
I'm like, it's the bad seems to have far
away the good of it.
And I'm sure, I know there
are good applications of it,
(32:18):
but my God, is it sucking the life
out of everything at the moment?
I just, not to be pessimistic or
negative, but Christ.
I'm just so sick of hearing about it.
Like every time I hear of it in
connection to something,
I think, well,
there's somebody's job gone.
That's the first thing
that comes into my head.
I'm like, all right,
well, that's somebody's job.
That doesn't exist.
(32:40):
Yeah, just the automation of everything,
this is just a general
note, but like the automation,
even when you go to the airport and like,
there's all these
kiosks and you check your bag
and then there's one
person instead of people at,
people on the desk checking people in.
It's just like one person watching
everybody's bag on air.
Like it's just,
everything's getting more and more
and more and more
(33:01):
automated and less personal
and less flexible as a result,
because there is no way to go.
I got theory for you.
I got theory.
I know that you had your run-ins
with those little Waymo
food bots or whatever,
but what, I'd go to a
restaurant every so often in Philly
and they have a robot busser.
(33:23):
They have a busser to,
Yeah.
It's a whole that's,
brings out the dishes
and how old the place,
and you see them around, right?
Yeah.
I'm not gonna lie.
They have a couple servers there
that's been working there forever.
I think their
service, the humans got worse
as the robots got in,
(33:44):
like I think they've,
they're checked out.
I think they're checked out.
I think the service got worse
when they got this robot help.
And I don't know.
I, it might be an image
of the rest of society
when we started going to
get automated and robotified.
I went to a Lakers game
downtown a couple of weeks ago
(34:04):
and I was pulling into the car park.
Looking you Jack Nicholson.
Yeah, I know dude.
My pal, Amy was in town from Sydney.
A friend of mine from
school, from high school,
secondary school, but I
was pulling into the car park
and there was like a
robot thing in front of me
that was blocking the way.
And I don't know what
(34:25):
the purpose of it was.
It was like a little robot
security guard or something.
I couldn't, it was like
moving around in the driveway.
I was like, what the fuck is this thing?
And it wouldn't get out of the way.
And eventually it sort of
moved off to the side, but like,
Wow.
We are living in the future that we saw.
You know what I mean?
As this robot wasn't
around all over the place.
I mean more and more driver
(34:45):
Waymo still freaked me out.
Like every time I say Waymo,
look in the driver's
seat and the passenger seat
and there's two seats
there and a steering wheel
and nobody in it.
I'm like, this is bananas.
How are we here?
It's just very awkward.
I also don't trust them to not,
like I'm very cautious
when I'm doing anything
around the Waymo, cause I'm like,
(35:06):
I don't know if I trust this, you know.
I think that's fair.
I don't think there's anybody on the route either.
But like, I'm like, this thing,
this thing glaze is out.
So needless to say, it's gonna get tight.
It's gonna get a little
tight around during the holidays
in our industry, but you can trust us.
We're gonna have eyes on it.
(35:26):
You know, and I'll
actually the one thing,
and I'm not joking when I say this.
If you have a good agent,
this is the time when
you have a good agent,
thank your lucky stars,
you know, send them a love,
give them a hug.
I don't wanna get too sentimental here,
but yeah, if you have a great agent,
be very, very happy and
grateful because they're not,
(35:48):
I mean, it's tricky.
Oh, actually I wanted
to throw this out there.
So this is a bright spot.
We just got news, more word around town.
We just got news that
there are many, many projects
coming to Los Angeles.
One, namely, Heat 2.
Michael Mann is bringing
back Heat 2, shooting in LA.
(36:10):
We got a Jumanji film.
We got Bill Murray
projects, the Daniels movies.
We got a, this all just got announced.
They got more movies,
more films and projects
coming into California.
So that is a bright spot
and keep trucking along.
On the good news train, I
just wanna give a shout out.
The Rainmaker was renewed for season two,
(36:32):
which is huge for everybody involved.
Are you serious?
Yeah, which is brilliant.
USA Network is a show that
I was involved in last year.
Which just finished airing,
but they got renewed for season two.
So that's great news for everybody.
Michael Seitzman, the
showrunner and all the cast,
Milo and Lana and PJ Byrne.
Dude, congrats man.
(36:54):
You got a breaking news.
This is as of
yesterday of us recording this.
So congratulations to everybody involved.
I'm thrilled for everybody.
I just, you know, it's
great to see it come out
and do so well and get renewed.
Just on the theme of agents,
I browsed the acting subreddit.
(37:15):
The Reddit rundown.
Yeah, you can't really pray to that
when I came up with that earlier.
Already Reddit.
Shit names aside.
So I read this post this morning,
which I thought was very interesting
because, you know, people talk about,
actually talk about reps a lot.
They talk about agents a lot
and changing reps and getting reps.
And getting reps.
(37:36):
But what I saw this
morning was a post from an actor
and I went back down through the post
to kind of gather a bit more information.
But basically the title is,
I cold submitted to 60 talent agencies
listed in the IMDB top 1000.
So these would be the top
talent agencies in the US
and some of them in the world.
(37:57):
Some of them would be international,
but they'd be pretty, you know,
they'd be pretty,
in a lot of people's
eyes, unapproachable agencies.
But so out of the 60 submissions,
and basically this actor,
he sent a very basic email,
which is basically, here's my stuff.
You know, I'd love to, I'd
love to hear more from you,
but he sent his headshots,
(38:19):
his IMDB pro and his resume.
And out of the 60 submissions,
nine agencies responded,
which is quite a high number.
Two asked for self tapes,
one passed and one scheduled to zoom
and later offered representation.
Two asked for zoom meetings,
both offered representation.
One requested an in-person meeting
and also offered representation.
One requested more
(38:40):
materials than ghosted.
Three replied, but
lagged on replying felt iffy
and didn't move forward.
So out of 51 agencies
did not respond at all,
but he got nine
responses, which is pretty good.
So 16 sent, sorry, 60 emails sent,
no response from 51, got nine replies
and four agencies offered representation
from cold submissions.
(39:00):
That is a pretty, those
are pretty good numbers,
to be honest.
And to send- Terrific
numbers, terrific numbers.
To send 60 emails is not that hard.
It sounds like a lot of
emails, but it's not that hard
because you're basically
sending the same thing.
You're just
personalizing to every person going,
"Hey, here I am."
He actually put the text of his email,
which I think a lot of
(39:20):
people would be interested in
because that's, a lot of people don't
know how much to say
or, you know, how much
personality do they put in?
How long is it?
But he kept it short,
which I think is sort of instrumental.
Yeah, go ahead, read that.
He said, "It was a version of this.
My name is," blank, "I
am an actor living in,"
whatever market he's in, I don't know,
(39:40):
"I am seeking either commercial or
theatrical representation.
I have included links to my work.
Thank you for your time."
And then the links.
And that was it.
That's a really
straightforward, very simple email
because there's a tendency
to feel like you need to ask
in a certain way or sort of disguise it
as something else as well when it's not.
(40:01):
Everybody knows what a submission is.
They understand it, you understand it.
I'm submitting my work to you,
obviously to talk about representation.
Here it is, thanks for your time.
And I think that
simplicity would serve people,
would serve actors if they are
approaching agencies.
You don't have to, you know, put a load
of flowers around it
to kind of make it seem more palatable.
(40:22):
It's, you know, at the end of the day,
they know what you're doing.
Now, maybe some agents feel that,
and I'd love to hear
people's take on it, but...
I thought it was very
interesting how stripped down
and simple this email was.
There's no, like, a lot of
(40:42):
people are trying to crack,
showing their personality,
trying to stand out on a cold email,
which is almost impossible.
A lot of people arereferral only.
So this is... His results are amazing.
Anyway, I just want to put that,
because I'm pretty shocked,
because I try to be
pretty simple with my emails,
but that's way less
(41:02):
personality that even I have,
than I would have
assumed would be successful.
I agree.
It was... I haven't seen it
put that strip down before.
But it was interesting
that that got responses.
And it speaks to kind of the theme of it.
It speaks to kind of the amount of time
that people have to spend
to read these emails,
(41:22):
if they even read them.
You know, you're being
respectful of their time, too.
And I guess if you
have a decent bodywork...
Now, this actor, I will just
say a couple of things a bit.
This actor, he described...
He's a male, 25 to 35.
His ethnic
background, he's Cuban, he said,
but looks Caucasian.
So that's just to give you
(41:44):
male, 25 to 35, Cuban heritage,
looks Caucasian.
That's what he has said about
himself and his demographic,
because people did ask.
And people also asked about his credits.
So let's just give a picture here.
People asked about his credits.
He has a couple of co-stars,
and he just did a guest star.
And this was before the pandemic.
(42:05):
So he's newish enough, but
still, you know, a new talent.
Yeah, absolutely.
But before the pandemic
is a while ago, you know,
that's... to get that
kind of response from credits
that are like 2019 and
(42:25):
back, that's pretty good.
And it speaks to...
I think there's an
assumption in a lot of people,
because I've been guilty
of this, you know, as well,
where I feel like people
don't want to hear from me,
you know what I mean?
I feel like... and that's maybe partly a
cultural thing as well.
There's a bit of an Irish aspect of that.
So you started a podcast.
I started a podcast, so I
(42:46):
wouldn't shut the fuck up,
so people have no
choice but to listen to me.
Every week.
But there's a thing about, I
don't want to bother people.
There's a kind of an attitude.
I don't want to bother
them. I'll leave them alone.
It's culturally not that acceptable or
celebrated in Ireland to like...
You just be yourself up or brag about
yourself, you know what I mean?
(43:07):
It's just not that kind of
culture, you know what I mean?
Yeah, the tall puppy syndrome.
Yeah, like that Australian concept of
tall puppy syndrome.
A little bit of that, but also slightly
different in that like,
"I know, I'll just leave them alone."
The tendency is towards humility to a
fault, you know what I mean?
(43:27):
Where it's sort of like overly humble or,
you know, I don't want to...
"I know, I wouldn't say anything."
I don't want to brag about anything.
So there's some of that that I still have
to deal with every so often
in myself where I have to go, "Just
fucking... life is too
short. Just contact people."
You're also doing them a favour.
(43:48):
Like if you believe in yourself, you're
offering value to them as well.
It's not like it's a one-sided favour.
"Oh, we'll take you on as a favour to
you." It's not about that at all.
Here's a working
relationship, you know what I mean?
This is what I bring. If
that's something that, you know,
you think will bring value to you and to
your agency, great. Let's work together.
So I have to take some
(44:08):
of the emotion out of it.
I will add, I think that's great. And,
you know, this is,
you know, to juxtapose,
part of the reason why we want to talk
about this is as bleak as it
might be on testing networks.
Here we go with a great response. This is
a current recent story.
And this guy got
commercial representation.
This guy got
representation from being bold.
(44:29):
And I will add about this whole thing
about, you know,
putting yourself out there.
There's nothing...
This is the lowest bar
is sending a cold email.
Like that is the lowest bar
of putting yourself out there.
It is, but it's very difficult for
people. You know, mentoring.
I know that. I don't want to disrespect
(44:50):
it. I'm just putting in perspective.
I know. I get what you're saying. Yeah.
Versus back in the day, I literally, and
I'm scared to do it now.
You know, a lot of people say you got to
get on the phone, get on the phone.
A lot of people are
making cold phone calls.
And I remember back in the day, I would
make a cold phone call to an agent.
(45:11):
I would be so stuttering. I
would be sweating bullets.
I have, and I can't even
verbatim repeat it to you.
I have had the most
embarrassing cold phone calls.
You would have thought
it was out of a TV show.
And my point is, once I got into that,
like cold email, I'll blast it all day.
(45:33):
It's like, it's like, I'm celebrating
these cold emails anyway.
So to wrap up, I run out. Did you mention
that whole talent link?
Did you mention that?
So I haven't gotten to that part yet. So
then, so there's a
thing called talent link,
which you can do through Actors Access
where basically, I
think you pay a small fee
and then you can then they will submit to
(45:54):
agents on your behalf or
maybe you submit through them.
I don't know exactly how it works.
I used a similar one a few good few years
back where a similar type of thing where
you send emails out to a
bunch of cast and directors.
All right. Sorry, agents rather. So
through talent link,
you can do this as well.
So he also, after he had done these cold
submissions submitted through
(46:15):
talent link and through that,
six agencies offered him representation.
Two were across the board representation
and four were commercial only.
What was interesting about it was two of
the agencies that had that hadn't
responded to his cold emails did respond
through talent link.
So maybe that's a way that's another way
to do it. But I think that's great.
(46:37):
I think it's great because I think it's
all valid. They're all I
mean, they're all valid ways of.
But the fact that he did both and had a
sort of a comparison but also got a
response from the cold emails.
It's great to know that talent link. Hey,
it works for some people.
The email us actors guide podcast at
Gmail. If you you know, if you have
stories about this, some people have
success on talent link.
(46:57):
And it also goes to show you we don't
know if they even open up these emails.
Maybe he got the wrong email.
Maybe he got the wrong assistant. Maybe
the assistant was snoozing that day.
So there it goes to show you that
sometimes emails not reliable. And we
hope we have you don't know
about that part of the story.
So it's not the fact that talent was more
successful. It's the fact that someone
didn't get his email.
One thing I will add and I will be
(47:19):
careful the way I say this because as an
ethnic actor, I know a lot of people will
be like, oh, well, you got advantages
because you're Asian because I've been
hearing that all like everyone who's
ethnic hears that all the time.
And so the point is is is I can say that
(47:43):
his type 25 to 34, you know, young.
We didn't see his headshot of Cuban, but
also looks Caucasian. That's kind of a
great look that would
fit on a lot of rosters.
I know some actors are thinking about
that. And I'm just throwing that out
there where, you know, we try to be as
(48:04):
objective with these numbers as possible.
Yet we needed all this information. And
part of the reason why we're doing this
post is because we got so much
information and it shows a really good
insight into, hey,
this is what this guy did.
And it was successful even despite how
tight our industry is right now. So
absolutely. I think it's and it's just
he's not he's not offering any advice.
(48:26):
He's just giving his experience. He's
like, this is what I
did. This is what happened.
So I think there's a lesson no matter,
you know, and there's roles for
everybody. You know what I mean? There's
roles for every type.
As long as you're not white. I'm still
getting roles, man. I'm still getting
roles. I was just seeing
if you would get that one.
But like, you know, I would not let that.
(48:49):
That's going to stay in
the podcast. Yeah. Of course.
But people get so upset about this stuff.
You know, people get very passionate
about it. I'm like, guys, fucking relax.
Well, I think we all need to come by and
hold hands, hold hands. We're going to
get through this together.
Find an agent manager, hold their hand,
give them a hug. A casting director.
(49:12):
We're going to get this together.
You know what? Don't call the email cast
directors. Don't hold their hands. Yeah.
But, you know, it's a testament to just
putting yourself out there and really
just not worrying about how it comes
back. You know, like there's something.
Especially at a time when like a lot of
people are just a lot of pessimism.
(49:33):
People are like, oh, we're all, you know,
the industry is in a
terrible state. And maybe it is.
But it just is what it is right now. You
know what I mean? Like there's no, we
can't change the industry. So you can
just, all you can control is your
reaction to it or how you, or the actions
that you take or don't take.
And to a certain degree, your attitude.
You know what I mean? You can control
your attitude towards it too. So I don't
(49:54):
know. I like hearing sort of success
stories from actions like that. You're
like, okay, great.
Good for you. You know?
I will say, just be respectful of
people's time. You know, don't be, you
don't have to be pushy. You don't have to
be, just don't be a dick. And, you know,
be polite and
understand that people have...
(50:15):
We're going to get done on hats. That's
going to be our tagline. Don't be a dick.
Yeah. Just be sound. Just be sound, guys.
Let's do hidden gems. Let me knock mine
out. It was recent. It was fine. I'm in
New York. And my sister had tickets to
the NYC, well, the New York ferry. The
New York ferry is essentially a slower
(50:37):
transport. Instead of taking a stuffed
subway train, you could just hop a ferry.
You're in the gorgeous Hudson River.
Don't drink it. But you're in the
gorgeous Hudson River. I saw, I got, I
call it sunset, beautiful skylines,
landscapes. I had a great time. One
(50:58):
ticket is $450. You could buy a bunch and
they're, you know, you could buy a pack
and they're $290. But it's not a bad
ride. And then free transfers for two
hours. I was having a bowl. My office
was, was North, sorry. Yeah.
I will say in Chicago, the water taxi is
very similar. You can take the water taxi
up to Chicago River. I haven't done that.
It's British. You can take it from Navy
(51:19):
Pier all the way up. Like it's class. So
I love that. I love that. The ferry on
the Hudson. It's a fun, cheap little boat
ride. Enjoy yourself. So that's my,
that's my hidden gem. Great hidden gem.
Mine is a very special one. It is a film,
which is out now on Tubi as
of today called "Glamping".
(51:41):
Written by Rosemary Adisi, who's a
phenomenal, just a wonderful person and a
really great writer. She wrote this as a
short film. She wrote this and made it as
a short, submitted it to Tubi as part of
a competition and won the whole thing.
And it has been made into a feature.
There are some people from
(52:01):
Leslie Kahn involved in it too.
I had the pleasure of meeting Rosie and,
you know, she was prepping the prep in
the film and stuff. And she's just a joy
to be around and like, just a, she's a
great writer. She's a great actor. She
just has a great approach. She's very
positive. And it's so cool to see this
(52:22):
get turned into a movie, you know, which
is being produced by Tubi, I believe. I
think Issa Rae is a producer on it as
well. It's like a, you know,
it's turned into a big film.
I believe the budget that they initially
offered, they increased it. So, yeah. So
the movie is called "Glamping". It's out
now on Tubi. Written by Rosemary. She's
(52:44):
also in the movie. And I'm really excited
for it. It's like a horror, you know,
it's like a kind of a fun horror movie
that has like sort of echoes of the early
90s kind of teen horror
movies, which are really fun.
It's great. It's great. There you go. All
(53:06):
right. Well, that's our show. Have a
great week. We'll be back next time. Hope
you enjoyed it. See you next week.
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