August 12, 2025 • 44 mins
Welcome to Episode 41 of the Actor's Guide to the End of the World! E-Kan and Rían jump around this episode with a nice a recap of our recent guests Patrick Massett and Kevin Walsh, and some not so nice news with Actors Access changing their terms of service. You will hear what actors need to know, why actors are in a sticky situation, and the root of the problem actors have with Actors Access.
They also get into a discussion about keeping your status as an actor in a turbulent time in the industry. Then somehow the guys start comparing, who talks about their feelings less- the Irish or the Asians? And of course they start talking about their feelings. This is a deep one, ya'll.
Then E-Kan talks about the recent survey that said the top job wanted by young children was YouTuber or streamer, and why it might not be a bad thing.
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Time stamps:
(0:00) Intro
(2:40) Actors Access drama
(11:49) Rían's fear of getting in trouble
(19:00) Recap of Patrick Massett and Kevin Walsh interviews and insights
(08:07) When Kevin first got the acting bug
(23:00) Actions dictate Feelings
(26:27) Asian vs Irish culture - who talks about their feelings less?
(34:00) YouTube is young kids' top profession
(19:40) A crazy story with the guns and the armorer
(41:40) Hidden Gems
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
But it just so happens in our
(00:01):
culture, we don't really touch.
Like, you know, I wasn't hugged a lot.
Like in Asian culture, you kind of don't.
That's the, that's the whole thing.
It's just don't hug each other.
I mean, welcome to the actor's guide to
the end of the world podcast,
where we talk about acting in Hollywood
in a way people understand.
(00:22):
I'm your host, E-Kan Soong.
And this is.
Rían Sheehy Kelly
We also talk about
acting in a real sexy way.
We don't laugh.
We don't.
At all.
We might, we might test that out.
Make it sound, make it
seem really alluring.
Listen to us wherever you find your
podcast at Actors Guide Podcast.
We have video on YouTube and Substack.
(00:43):
We have new episodes every Monday.
Make sure you follow us on all social
media at Actors Guide Podcast.
Yeah.
We're talking MySpace.
We're talking Friendster.
We're talking Bebo.
Get on them all.
God, I went, I got to
see this Bebo thing.
Dude, you would have loved Bebo.
For those old enough and in the right
region of the world, Bebo was incredible.
(01:04):
I can't even describe how cool it was.
Like it was our first
form of social media.
You could give someone
your love for the day.
That was a thing that you
could give, but only one person.
You could have like a video box on your
page, on your homepage.
You could do, I don't know.
It was cool.
It was cool.
You could have your top friends.
So people would like,
that was a big thing.
Like your top.
Oh, I remember that was it.
(01:24):
MySpace did something similar.
Did they?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm sure a lot of it was ripped from
MySpace, but it was
definitely, um, the best
form of social media that has existed.
I think so far.
Well, a lot of people are missing the
days of Instagram where you can just
casually post a photo and, and, and we
know that that's not, that's not going to
be a welcome by the algorithm.
So, um, yeah, it's just not those days,
(01:47):
not those days anymore.
Those days are gone.
On the show for today, Actors Access, the
popular Actors site has changed their
terms of service, who has it these days.
And it puts all of us
Actors in a sticky situation.
We also talk about holding onto your
status and power as an actor in an
industry where that does not
necessarily come naturally.
(02:08):
Also how 30% of kids chose YouTuber as
their number one profession.
Good times.
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So I do need to talk about
this Actors Access thing.
Um, so there's a kicker to
the story and I have to be very
delicate of how I put this.
(02:50):
Actors Access, um, they recently changed
their terms of service.
Yeah.
Let's give this some context just for
people who don't know, like my dad
who listens to this podcast.
Hi dad.
So basically as a, as a brief overview,
in order to submit for auditions,
there are a couple of casting websites,
which you need to be a member of and
need to go through because there is
(03:10):
literally no other way to do this.
There's a monopoly on it.
There is a monopoly.
So there's a couple and there's, there's
a few of them, but a lot of the casting
websites are owned by one company.
Now Actors Access and Casting Networks
are two separate companies.
Um, Casting Networks is owned by a
company called, I think, Talent
Services, Inc.
And they own, I think five casting
(03:32):
websites, including Spotlight in the UK.
So basically you pay
to be on these websites.
They host your headshots, some video, but
essentially the same thing.
You have to pay to be on these websites
in order to submit for jobs to get work.
So it is in essence,
a pay to play system.
I heard what the issue was with the
(03:52):
change in the terms of service and put
in a clause saying that if you opt in,
you are not allowed to participate in
a class action lawsuit, you are not
allowed to sue them in
a class action lawsuit.
Now this sounds innocuous because most
companies do do this.
It's pretty standard for
a lot of tech companies.
(04:14):
It just so happens that it triggered me
because I'm aware that Actors Access
and Casting Frontier, um, break down,
talent systems, casting networks.
Yeah.
Casting networks.
They have an active class action lawsuit
against them from last year.
Yeah.
So it's just the timing of it.
(04:35):
I was like, Oh hell no.
If you opt in, you would, uh, essentially
cancel out previous class action lawsuits
that are, that are against them.
So tricking all the Actors logging into
your action Actors Access, Oh, we
changed the terms of
service, blah, blah, blah.
I'm not going to read it.
And then you just
(04:55):
continue and click and click.
Yes.
So I did a video.
I got the word out.
I was not the first one to talk about it.
There's no easy situation around this.
Basically what I was saying or offering
was, Hey, we talked about this on the
podcast, we transfer, change their terms
of service after people balked and called
(05:15):
them out and they rectified it.
This is an opportunity.
We share the word and they realize, Hey,
we're not okay with this.
And maybe they will
change the terms of service.
There's no easy way around this.
I was suggesting if you have an audition,
use email or we transfer, talk to your
(05:36):
agent, this is more work
for the agent as a manager.
I don't think that they would love it.
This is not a great situation to avoid
you and I, uh, uh, not logging into
Actors Access.
Okay.
So there's that, um, that's not a great
situation, but this is essentially
holding out in a way, a quote unquote
boycott of Actors Access until maybe
(05:59):
they change the
situation, change the clause.
Yeah.
That's where we are.
Uh, and someone responded on my reel and
he's in the industry.
I have a loose under a
loose idea of who he is.
Uh, he makes a point.
He goes, you know, that all the companies
have this in their clause.
(06:20):
They were advised by their
legal counsel to put this in.
That's all it is.
Nothing more.
And I try not to be a complete asshole
and I say, that's fair.
Um, the difference.
Oh, he, he, he mentioned TikTok because
TikTok has stuff like that.
(06:41):
A lot of apps, a lot
of platforms have that.
I go, the difference is, is TikTok is a
free app and Actors Access is a service
that essentially has had a monopoly on
our industry that we've been fighting
for years, uh, also just because every
company or a lot of companies have it
(07:01):
doesn't make it right and, uh, doesn't
make, doesn't mean that we can't do
something about it.
And also this one clause is violating the
one, uh, the one opportunity or the one
way that we can actually do something
about it is class action.
Right.
(07:22):
That's the difference.
And it should be noted as well that the
cost of these casting websites
typically falls on Actors.
Uh, casting directors don't pay for the
use of these sites as far as that.
True.
Is that correct?
I think so.
Oh, maybe that's why I got confused.
Agents do have to pay,
but casting directors don't.
Yes.
Okay.
Well that, that kind of makes more sense.
(07:44):
The burden obviously should be on the
studios yet somehow all the actors
are always getting the footing, the bill.
Yeah.
So the kicker to the story, I was
optimistically just hoping that, you
know, the, the problem would vanish.
I'm going to be very discreet when I say
this, uh, people higher up contacted me.
(08:06):
My rep and, uh, wanted
to point out a few things.
They saw my video.
I was kind of impressed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, I was kind of impressed slash
surprised that they saw my video.
Um, I'm not going to say too much here,
but, uh, they expressed their point.
(08:32):
Saying that this is fairly standard of,
you know, being advised by your council.
And I have an opportunity to send them a
message and I'm not joking
around when I say that I have an
opportunity to kind of share my side of
what is our world in which you just
respond with, I know
you are, but what am I?
(08:54):
We'll see if I can't
think of anything better.
Yeah.
Takes one for that one.
The one thing I will say is, is, um, if
you're a new actor and why, I don't want
to say you knew, if you're an actor who's
actively submitting on actor's
access, submitting yourself, and maybe
don't have a rep, you're in a really
tough position, you probably clicked yes
on the, on the thing.
(09:15):
No one blames you.
It's a crappy situation.
There's no real way around it.
You and I are not actively on actors
access all the time.
So we kind of can, can skate by, but I
just want to say this
is a crappy situation.
So, uh, you know, we're just trying to
find our way out of it.
And before we leave this, I will say just
like, you know, that obviously there
(09:35):
needs to be a platform by
which you can submit auditions.
I understand that like it may, you know,
there is a cost to that, to
hosting and everything else.
I think it's just unfairly weighted
against actors where there, we bear the
cost of all of that stuff, where they're
not charging studios for the use of these
websites and they're not charging the
(09:56):
parent casting directors.
So it's just, it just seems like it's
very unfairly weighted on the part of the
industry that has in some ways, the least
power that has to, you know, that
has to use these
things in order to get work.
And if you're not charging anyone else,
that just feels unfair.
I think that's the, that's a great point.
That's a great point.
That's at the heart of like the, the sort
(10:19):
of unfair way that this is, is skewed.
Yeah.
The burden should be on the studios or at
least try to make it easier on us.
And it's not, and then, you know, actors
don't know where to direct their
anger and, and frustration.
And yeah, it's just, we're
still in the same situation.
Right.
And in an industry that's, that's often
(10:40):
hard to make a living in.
There are a lot of costs involved with
just staying in the game.
And like I say, I've
chosen to be in this industry.
I understand that, that it is not
necessarily fair and that there are these
things exist, it's just the more of them
there are, the more difficult it is to
maintain and, and, and have like, you
know, we've talked about this before, but
(11:01):
like the sort of middle-class actor who
makes enough money to do, to have a life
and support themselves and a family, you
know, if that's, if that's their
situation with acting and that's ever
increasingly hard to do, I think.
And, and there are a lot of things like
(11:22):
the cost of all of these, all of these
considerations go, go into that.
So I think more fairness would be, or
just spreading out some of the, the
bird would be really helpful.
Actually, this is helpful.
This is, this is the
core of it right here.
My reps were very kind and said, I wasn't
in trouble, but it does make me think.
(11:44):
It does make me consider what
I share on social media now.
It's funny, isn't it?
Getting in trouble is like a big fear of
mine, like a vague fear that sits in the
back of my eye, I don't
want to get in trouble.
I don't want to piss anyone off.
I don't want to get in trouble.
Just, it's a funny one, like in trouble.
Like being kicked out of,
there's so many actors I know.
(12:06):
Yeah. I think actors are in general are coming
from a place of fear and powerlessness.
Yeah.
What do you, what do
you want to get trouble?
I don't want to, I don't know.
I think it's just maybe
the way it's sort of set up.
It's the way you, maybe it's the way, uh,
the industry feels when you come into it.
Like there's a sort of,
uh, there's a hierarchy.
(12:28):
This is a great segue.
So we're moving on from actors.
We're going to do a little, uh, recap or
a little after party talk about, uh, our
recent guests, Patrick
Masset and also Kevin Walsh.
We did a back to back
episodes with, with two guests.
There were, there were a lot of fun.
It was an insight into, well, Patrick
specifically, we got a real insight into
(12:49):
what Hollywood used to be like.
And, uh, there was a, uh, kind of outs,
like Patrick had a great stories about,
but against all odds, you know, getting
scripts out there, uh, uh, getting
pitches and selling, selling scripts
early on in their career, there was a
(13:10):
renegade mentality, but it not at all.
Did I feel like Patrick felt powerless or
against the machine
or bottom of the totem
pole.
I still feel like there are some actors
that I know that don't feel low status.
(13:33):
No people pleasing, uh, uh, afraid.
And then there are some actors that do,
and this is not about whether they're
famous or not, but I just think there's
an interesting shift where it's easy for
an actor to be pigeonholed low status.
Yet personally for me, you know, maybe,
maybe that's my problem.
Maybe that's my problem.
I don't personally feel,
(13:55):
um, afraid all the time.
Yeah.
Afraid that I'm going to lose the job.
Afraid of even in our little actors
access situation, I
did not really feel that
scared, but my point is, is where, where
do, where do people fall in line?
Because I feel like that's been handed
over to us from an old slowly dying
(14:18):
version of Hollywood that I don't know,
for some reason, it just trickled down to
all the actors and
actors feel low status.
Yeah.
And I think you make a few really good
points there and talking about Patrick
in the sort of golden age of Hollywood,
it did, you know, his experience of it
was, was, you know, gave us a sort of a
window into like the sort of cool
seat of the pants,
(14:39):
things are getting made.
You know, it was a really, it was a
really cool snapshot.
However, the industry was far from
perfect in those days.
You know what I mean?
There was a lot of, there was a lot of
inequality in, you know, there was
that there was discrimination.
There was all of these
other things going on.
So it was the golden era for
some people, but not for others.
(15:00):
Um, but what you're talking about the
status thing is, is, is great because
I think some of like, I don't feel low
status either, but I think some of that
has come with age and experience.
I think when you're starting out, when
you're new, it's much easier to
feel kind of, um, overwhelmed by it.
(15:22):
But I think the trick is to like, find
that, find that high status and that
sense of self worth and self esteem.
Um, in an industry that doesn't promote
it necessarily, it's the trick
is to find it for yourself somehow.
And I, I'm not claiming to have any
answers there at all, but, but the
actors that I see do well tend to have
(15:43):
that, whether it comes from like a full
life, or it's just how they are in the
world or their, their own self belief.
They are the actors, the ones, the most
successful actors I know seem to have,
have that kind of status.
Um, whether it's acquired or natural.
And I think the trick is to try and find
that as best you can.
(16:04):
Some of it is creating your own work.
I see, I see that in people who like, we
had this talk in, in class, in a
day, where one of the actors was talking
about, he goes, well,
I don't really feel,
we were talking about, you know, the
state of the industry and, and, and, you
know, where we're at right now.
And a lot of people have a very bleak
outlook on that, but, but his take on it,
which I thought was kind of cool was he's
(16:24):
like, well, I don't, he's like, I've
never felt welcomed by the industry.
He's like, so for me, he's like the kind
of, you know, what I see as the, the way
for it is to just keep
making my own work, directing.
He's like, just got an
interest in directing.
He's just directed his, you
know, his first short film.
So his, his, his approach to it is born
(16:45):
of years of never feeling like he was in
the circle or, you know what I mean?
Like, like it was
welcoming him in with open arms.
So it's made no difference.
It was like during the strike when there
was people who were used to actors who
were used to supporting themselves with
another job, it didn't necessarily hit
them as hard as the actors who are
working pretty consistently just from
(17:06):
because they didn't have a fallback.
They didn't have, then
they had to scramble for jobs.
So it's an interesting thing.
People's people's approach to it and
where they find that sense of sense of
status and sense of self worth.
That's not connected to whether
somebody's going, here's a job or not.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
I'm going back to you said that, uh, and
(17:27):
this might be completely disconnected.
You said that you always felt like, you
know, growing up or in the back of your
head, you always thought that, Oh, I
might get in trouble
or I might do something
wrong, or I might get in like, what,
what, what, how's
that play into all this?
Because you have a pretty good sense of,
you know, mindset, but that sometimes
just pops in your head.
Yeah.
It's just something I
(17:47):
have to contend with.
And I think it's a sort of, uh, I don't
know if it's an anxiety thing, but it's
just, uh, for no reason at all at times,
my brain will tell me everybody's mad at
you and it's all your fault.
You know what I mean?
It's just things like that.
Like, Oh no, I've
pissed everybody off somehow.
You know what I mean?
(18:07):
Um, uh, and I think that's just part of
the daily sort of mental stuff that I
deal with sometimes.
No, it doesn't ripple me.
You know what I mean?
It doesn't affect my life.
I think in the past that times it was
more, um, impactful on my sort of mental
(18:30):
general overall mental health.
But I can slip back in there if I'm not,
if I'm, if I'm not careful, you know what
I mean?
I'm like, I'm like, Oh no, I've, I've
pissed everyone off.
Um, and I have heard some people I've
heard, I've heard people have those
feelings every so often that makes sense.
But how I, I mean, I generally walk
around the world pretty confident.
(18:50):
You know what I mean?
I'm, I'm good at talking to people.
I like people.
I enjoy that.
Yeah.
You're comfortable.
You're fairly comfortable in your skin.
You know, going back to the, this, this
idea and going back to our, our recent
conversations, that's what was so
striking to me
because obviously completely
different worlds of, of Kevin Walsh and
Patrick Masset, they were both great
(19:10):
conversations, just
completely different worlds.
Right.
But in those, it was kind of, for me, it
was kind of a snapshot of being in, uh,
and the entertainment industry.
I wouldn't even necessarily say
Hollywood, but being in the, in the
entertainment industry.
Kevin Walsh was a perfect example of
he's, he's been around.
He's lived a couple of lives, uh, a
(19:31):
former, uh, footballer, formal football
prayer, player, the phrase footballer.
I know exactly.
Exactly.
It's like, this is, this
is the proper way to say it.
I've already, I'm learning here.
So, uh, for soccer, for the Americans.
I appreciate that.
Exactly.
Exactly.
That feels like the coolest way to say it
to my definitely is because it doesn't
apply here.
(19:51):
You can't say an NFL
player is a football.
Exactly.
They're like a football player.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Um, anyway, so baller, it was just, it
was kind of inspiring
because this is a guy, uh,
always was interested in acting classes,
workshops, want to talk about movies,
(20:12):
uh, you know, see plays, even when he
was, you know, even
before he was an actor.
Moving out to LA, he has a bar job.
He has a, you know, a, a, a, a young kid.
And yet it does not look like he's lost
any enthusiasm of doing the grind of, uh,
(20:34):
getting in the entertainment industry,
booking jobs and working at it and
pursuing his dream, not at any point does
he feel low status or he's embarrassed
tail between his legs.
He's making work.
And also he just worked his ass off, um,
putting together a play and successfully
closing a play last, last month in LA.
(20:55):
So it's like, you know, that kind of like
my point where in this conversation, um,
mindset and how you carry yourselves.
I think that's, it's inspiring.
It's inspiring for me.
That's one, one of the takeaways for me.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I think a positive attitude
carries people a long way.
Cause like you see, you see what people
(21:16):
in all walks of life, but there are
people, I don't have to be careful.
Myself, the way I talk about myself, I
have to be careful with that because I
can, I can, I can use negative language
at times, which doesn't serve me.
Cause it sort of
reinforces negative beliefs in me.
So I have to be careful about the
language that I use, the
(21:37):
way I think about things.
That takes constant,
um, adjusting, I think.
Uh, you know, just in life, I have to be
aware of when I'm like, oh, that's not,
that's not a helpful way because the
people that I like to
be around are people
who are positive, you know, people who
are, you know, that make you feel good.
(21:57):
And that don't, don't try and convince
you of how tough things are for them in
order to like, listen to
response, um, whatever that is.
And I'm not like, and I'm
not denigrating that either.
Cause I understand sort of where it comes
from, but it's, I have to kind of put a
lot of, not a lot of them, but I have to
(22:18):
put work in, I think,
to, to, to reminding
myself of like, that's
how I want to live my life.
Cause it feels good.
Feeling positive feels good.
Feeling resentful or
feeling bitter or feeling angry.
You know, it doesn't, it's not enjoyable.
You know, there's a, there's a kind of,
uh, you know, that, that, that kind of
(22:39):
self-righteous sort of justified anger
can feel kind of good in a moment.
But overall is not a, it's not
a healthy way for me to live.
It's not a positive way for me to live.
This just came into my
mind and I'm kind of ripping.
I probably heard Seth Godin, who's a
brilliant author, you know, say something
similar to this, but I have to ask you
(23:00):
because I'm trying to pinpoint it because
you and I are, are, you know, a few
things we, we, we think very differently.
Would you say that your
feelings dictate your actions or
your actions dictate your feelings?
Uh, I have learned that
my actions dictate my fear.
Well, I think that a lot of, you know, a
number of years sober and you
(23:22):
know, in sort of like a number of years
in recovery has
really turned that around.
By the way, congratulations.
I don't know if you say that.
Yeah.
So for sober birthday.
Yes.
That's right.
14, 14, 14 years, which is magic.
(23:43):
It's, it's, it's a, it's an absolute
gift, but the, like, you know, learning
from other people has turned that around
and it's a great distinction because I
think I used to be, my actions
used to be led by my feelings.
And I think I have learned now that it's
absolutely the opposite.
They, they say, um,
(24:03):
esteemable actions create self-esteem.
You know, and I have learned that my
actions can absolutely change and dictate
my mood and it's only
action that changes my mood.
I often can't think my way out of
something negative, but I can act my
way out of it and, and,
and my thinking will change.
(24:24):
Now I didn't come up
with that myself at all.
I learned that from other people, but
I've, I've, I've seen it work in my
life time and time again, and it's
something that, uh, I try to practice.
You know, daily now.
So absolutely you're right.
Actions dictate feeling and I don't, I
don't do it perfectly by any means.
(24:44):
I mean, I do, you know, have my feelings
do often dictate actions, but I've
learned that like,
it's, it's the opposite.
It's kind of the, when you think about
the theory of
meditation, like not getting
attached to the thoughts that come into
your mind, but just kind of letting them
pass, not letting the thoughts dictate
your feeling, because you know, like when
(25:06):
you, when you have anxious thoughts in
your mind, your body changes, you know,
you produce cortisol, your, your, your
heart rate increases, your adrenaline
increases, all of these things.
You know, there's a lot of evidence to
back up the fact that, you know, if you
can change your thoughts, it changes
your, your, your chem,
the chemistry of your
body and the way that I, the most
(25:26):
efficient way I have found to get there
is to take some contrary action to take
some action that seems like it's not
the answer, you know, and again, that
was, you know, I learned
that from other people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The one thing I will say is when I w when
I was saying that, you know, in a lot of
(25:47):
ways you and I are fairly different and I
won't go on and on about this, but, you
know, needless to say, and I don't know
if you knew this, I'm Asian.
We're not known for being very emotional
growing up with a lot of feelings.
Uh, sorry.
I just, I just need a sec.
I just need to say, I know exactly.
I know this is the shocker reading.
(26:07):
I'm still reading from that revelation as
an audio podcasts, you know, that, that
would, that would have been, I feel like
that would have been
pertinent information
to have at the beginning.
If you can't see that, Ryan is reeling
for the listeners because they can't see
your, your facial expressions, but you
know, you can, you can see it on YouTube
and sub stack everyone.
(26:28):
I grew up in an environment where we
don't, we don't, you
know, we didn't grow up
very expressive, effusive of our
feelings, yada, yada, yada.
Feelings are so not part of my language.
They almost don't even exist.
And so that's part of the reason why I
became an actor because I was like, oh,
there are all these other things that
people experience and think about and
(26:49):
talk about.
And I'm like, Oh, there might be some
really cool things in
that, but I absolutely
had no recollection of any
of those things growing up.
And so that's my baseline zero.
And so here I am, I'm so captivated by
how you look at the world because I'm
talking to all the actors and they tell
me about their feelings.
(27:11):
And I'm like, wow, I can't even imagine
being so wrapped up in feelings and being
like, wow, they felt this way and it
caused them to do this and that.
And they're feeling that.
And I'm like, I almost don't even, I
can't almost can't even comprehend it.
Huh?
And so that's where the two, the two
(27:33):
sides of this where
that's where I'm coming from.
So that's why I love having these
conversations because I'm, I'm, I'm
learning more about this world, but I'm
also learning more about myself.
To be honest.
So I grew up in a culture that's not big
on, Oh, that's true.
Man expressing his
feelings either, to be honest.
You know what I mean?
It's changing, but that has to start to
(27:55):
be the case in Ireland.
It's still a far stretch from typical
Asian culture though.
Probably.
I don't know, to be honest.
I don't really know.
Really?
I know that like that, you know, the,
the, the Ireland that
I grew up in, you know,
guys didn't really talk
about their feelings too much.
Um, which was a problem.
Um, let me, let me put it this way.
(28:16):
Did you guys hug?
Yeah, we did.
Yeah.
My family are very
loving and very, um, open.
My, my, my family, I just meant the
culture is sort of at large.
But, um, I just want to say this.
I don't want to engender stereotypes.
The fact that Asians might be
colder or less, less feeling.
(28:39):
It's just how they show
their feeling in, in the culture.
My parents love me tons and I, I, I've
come to grips with that as I, as I grown
older, it wasn't always roses growing up,
but, but it just so
happens in our culture.
We don't really touch like, you know, I
wasn't hugged a lot.
Like in Asian culture, you kind of don't
(29:00):
that's the, that's the whole thing.
It's just different.
You know what I mean?
Okay.
I mean, it's like, it's like, you know, I
don't want this to be weird, but it's
like, I, you need to go to one of those
groups where they just hug each other.
I saw it on TV.
No, it's just, it's just not our usual
thing where it's like, if you say I love
(29:22):
you, then someone usually just gets
confused and not know how to respond.
You know, it's just like, that's, that's
kind of like, and I'm not saying that the
old Asian people are like that.
It's just, of course, right.
It's just show love in different ways.
I'm not, I'm not knocking at all.
I'm just saying that this,
this is a different language.
How is it shown then?
What's the mechanism?
(29:43):
What's the, you know, this is really a
therapy session at this point.
Um, I would guess, uh, well, I, I, I
would, I would default to the, the, the
love languages.
If anyone knows that book, um, there's
the, did you, have
you ever heard of this?
The, the five love languages.
(30:04):
It's basically, um, I think it's vaguely,
but not, yeah, it's essentially words,
words, gifts, touch, spending time.
To be honest, I always forget the fifth,
but my point is, is high fives.
I want to say, um, gift gift cards.
(30:27):
Close Asian culture for sure.
It's, I felt love through
protection, taking care of.
Wow.
That's interesting.
It just reminded me of something there
and it's not, maybe this is not
parallel, just, it just sparks up naming,
but the play, um, I think it's
fences is the play.
Oh, okay.
(30:48):
Uh, by August Wilson.
And it was done.
There's two, there's a video that goes
around of like, there's a scene.
Um, I think it's, but there's two, uh,
James Earl Jones played the
role and then years later.
Oh, well, Dunsell did the movie.
Sorry.
That's right.
(31:08):
Yeah.
But he did the play as well.
Oh yeah, he did.
He, I hear that's right.
He did the play.
Yeah.
So James Earl Jones.
And he's and if the scene is the dad gone
like you I don't have to
like you I put food on the table
That's the I'm paraphrasing, but that's
(31:29):
the basic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I
take care of you. I make
sure you eat. Yeah. Yeah
It's a great thing.
Yeah, but it's interesting
I don't know why that it just sparked out
of me where I was like
who says I got to like you
You know that idea of like don't I do all
these things? That's how that's how love
was shown in that instance
But yeah, yeah, no, there's definitely a
parallel there. No, you're right, but I
(31:49):
don't get the sense
that you feel like you
were
Deprived
Necessarily, I don't feel like oh, yeah
Yeah, I absolutely do not obviously if
anyone knows me I spend a lot of time
with my family if anything
I spend more time with my family than
most people. I absolutely enjoy it.
There's not part of it. That's a burden
I we have a great relationship and yeah,
(32:10):
absolutely no point was it do I ever feel
deprived that that was no
I don't I don't get this answer you do
I'm very fortunate. I mean
both of us have great families
I forget that sometimes
as well because I know that
You know, I hear
people talk about you know
I went home to wherever the grammar, you
know to see family and
they'd say it like it's a chore
Almost sometimes, you know something like
(32:32):
you know, I spent four days on my family
So I couldn't wait to get out of there
Never in my life has a trip to Ireland
been long enough for me
it is always too short and I was just
home for six months
and that was too short I
Miss it all the time. So
when I every time I leave
Every time I've left and no
trip has ever been so I had
(32:54):
Other things to bring out today. I had a
super fun thing that we're probably gonna
have to push the next week
What a teaser guys tune in next week for
the super the super fun
thing that he comes talking about
I know I had a lot of fun things planned
But I don't know if you if you're aware
of this the survey of when they when they
ask the kids of what they want
(33:15):
To be when they grow up
Guess what the number one the number one
profession is youtuber or streamer
according to the study
out of 12 to 15 year olds
polled 30% of them wanted to be youtubers
or streamers my point is is
this is the world that we live in and I I
(33:36):
Don't hate it that everyone wants to be a
youtuber and streamer
These are the options that we gave them
These are the options that are the most
efficient because if you
play your cards, right?
you're gonna meet Barack Obama and you're
gonna sell ads on better help and AG one
and you're gonna achieve
all your dreams on YouTube and
(33:56):
express your desires and
meanwhile most of the the the majors that
are being studied in college those jobs
are not going to exist in five years, so
You know starting the conversation now
with Patrick Madison and Kevin Walsh and
this is what Hollywood is and this is
what Hollywood used to
I've made
this revelation this past month where
(34:18):
Hollywood is completely changed
YouTube is the number one streamed
platform by a mile and
This is what we have to deal with. Yeah,
and so I'm looking at all the other
actors and and many
actors and many writers
morning the days and
Gripping on to what Hollywood used to be
(34:38):
with cold dead hands
and I'm like, oh my god
it's like I've been holding on for a
pretty long time and
I'm like, I I don't I think
I'm finally about to let go now
I don't know where you fall in this but
here I am us talking about
this stuff and I'm gonna be like I
Do not want to be the dinosaur
(35:00):
the the last one at
the party holding on to a
Fading delusion and this is where my head
is going and I'm trying to
release myself of all this anyway
Yeah, that's my that's my spiel which is
what but I've heard it anecdotally from
my friends who have kids that like
You know one of my friends asked his
(35:21):
Nice or nephew what are you into? You
know, what are you
like? What are you into?
What do you like to do and they said
YouTube shorts that was their interest.
That was what they were into YouTube
shorts short videos on YouTube
So I I just YouTube
YouTube shorts very specific
So I agree with you that like I that is
the way things are going
(35:41):
I think it boils down to
the fact that like this career
Has never and will never look like I
think it's going to look even if it's
Whatever. I think it is. I'm always
100% wrong because I can never predict
how it's gonna look it is an
unpredictable career
And even when I think something's gonna
go one way the reality of it
(36:02):
is always something different
The second I think I know how something's
going to go. I'm wrong.
You're okay with the unknown and
I think there's a lot of humility in that
I think that that's fair.
Yeah. Yeah. No, I get that
I think you know, I tried to be because I
I find myself going well
this is gonna be that or this is gonna be
that I can't but I have to
just be open to everything and
You know, I heard John Spencer talk about
(36:24):
it the late the late John
Spencer who's a brilliant actor
Also, you know was sober
Was sober a number of years when he died,
but he talked about how
Acting was his drug
the next job was his drug
That was his addiction was getting the
next job getting the next job
And I kind of thought landed with me
because I really resonate
with that because I love it
(36:45):
So much that that the thrill of getting
the job and then getting to do the job
and meeting everybody
Is the buzz of it for me?
And then what happens after that is not
as important. It used to be more
important, but it's
somewhere along the way. I've kind of
you know
That's faded to the background a bit, you
(37:05):
know, right on that note if that's
something that obviously
I'm assuming you could you could say that
You could say that that's a bad thing or
you could say that
it's a good thing which
Part the idea that a job is almost like
that. That's the drug is
getting to the next job
Yeah, so how do you take I'm not I'm not
saying it as about or go thing. I'm just
(37:26):
I'm just kind of that's how it feels
to me I don't know if it's a good thing
or a bad thing but ultimately it's not
gonna make you happy, you know
I mean if it is a true addiction and and
and just getting the job is the absolute
goal of your life then getting the
Job is not gonna make you happy because
it's always gonna go but I think there is
a there is a certain aspect of it
You know for me there is
a certain aspect of that
(37:46):
Ever in my life cuz ultimately that no no
career is ever gonna make you happy
This this is actually thank you for
bringing that that's actually also a way
of where we're going with this the whole
bringing up the whole
YouTube streamer thing if
This is the new Hollywood in a way.
That's a great opportunity for a lot of
people because it's
eliminating gatekeepers
It's eliminating gatekeepers
(38:06):
You could create something on YouTube or
tick-tock or create something and blow up
and I think that's kind
of like where a lot of
Actors, you know, maybe like you and I
where it's like that that doesn't come
That's not first thing on our list. Yeah,
and I think that what
I'm getting at is is is
there are
(38:27):
the industry took a huge hit how do you
get your power back and
What happens because what happens when
there's no studios to get jobs from or
shoes or shows or films?
Now here's the thing. Obviously, we know
that studios are not going to disappear
but on that note if there are fewer jobs
(38:50):
fewer actors who get that buzz and
Then what next
obviously I this is getting dark
But let me let me just say what what the
next segment was because I
gotta end on a happier note
So we were supposed to talk about the New
York Times top 100 list
Yeah, so my whole big plan spoiler alert.
We didn't make the list this year. Yeah
(39:11):
so New York Times put out the top 100
films of the 21st century and
They put this out maybe a month ago
It's really interesting. It's these are
the best films from the past 25 years and
so my whole mindset of all this is is we
see where Hollywood is we're embracing
(39:33):
where Hollywood's going and
Also, I don't know if we got time today.
We might have to do it next
week. We get to appreciate
The greatest films of the past 25 years
and my point is is if we can't appreciate
the best films of the 21st century
Hollywood is cooked
Hollywood is so cooked if we can't you
(39:54):
know at least embrace
what?
the great
History and the films that Hollywood has
produced. That's my that's my
Just the only thing a lot to that before
we wrap it up is like
There are there are
good and bad aspects to
Everything if you look at the music
(40:14):
industry as a parallel the music industry
completely changed with stream
Big record deals went away. Nobody could
make money nobody musician very hard for
musicians to make money
on the flip side of that
There's access anybody can make music,
you know same as same
as the film industry
It used to be very expensive and only a
few people could make movies because only
a few people had the
money in the equipment
(40:35):
Now with the advent of technology and the
internet everything else
everybody can make a movie
So there's a democratization of access,
but there's also you know the breaking of
the system that that benefited
You know a few people in a huge way
so I don't know I
Feel that whatever comes next is
(40:55):
You know could be great like if the
studio system breaks down completely
Okay
then everybody just makes like you say
YouTube is the way for it and people
making their own content and
We'll see where that goes
But I you know, I don't know
I don't know all I know is what I can
control and that's to get as good at this
as I can and try and make
you know make stuff
(41:15):
with people that I like and
Take it from there. I'm not trying to
predict the future. Yeah, as I'm
100% wrong every time. All right, that's
a great place to end it
Just remember Reins Reins wrong a hundred
percent of the time you heard it here
folks. Yeah. Yep. I am the world's worst
Fortune chatter. Do you have a hidden
(41:37):
gem? I actually do have a hidden gem. Um,
let me let me throw something out there
Now I
Don't know if in all honesty, I don't
know how often people have been using it
But let me just tell you that I used it
for the first time and
I was really impressed
so
it's
(41:58):
It's built on it's essentially comes with
every iPhone. I think they
have a basic translate app
it has many many languages, hopefully it
has your language, but
There's a part of it
where you can essentially
Use the camera within the app to take a
picture of language and it
(42:18):
just instantly translates it
Yeah
Now I know that probably androids had
this five seven years ago
This is not even this is like the basic
iPhone app where I'm talking about like
my mom is writing messy Chinese like
quick casual handwriting Chinese and
They translated it really
(42:39):
well and I'm like, oh my god
This is what we're talking about reading
Chinese. I'm like, yeah,
that's pretty good. Anyway, so
let me I mean, I don't know if a bunch of
people have already been using this but I
I was pretty blown away by how easy it
was to use so that's
my that's my hidden gem
(42:59):
Nice. Nice. Yeah, okay
My hidden gem for this
week is by no means hidden
But it is a gem. I'm gonna add to the
visibility of it because it's pretty
visible as it is, but the Rainmaker
TV show Oh
Comes okay next Friday actually it'll be
coming out this if you're
listening to this on a Monday
(43:20):
It'll be coming up the same
week Friday the 15th. Nice
There you go Friday the 15th of August on
USA Network and then a week later
streaming on peacock
It is a peacock as adaptation of a John
Grisham novel. There was a movie the
Rainmaker with Matt Damon years ago
This is the TV series version
of it. It's got a great cast
(43:40):
Of which I am a grateful member
Yeah, and had a blast shooting us. But
yeah, it's got really good
really good people involved
I think it's gonna be really cool tell
some of the cast John Slattery John
Slattery great actor PJ
Byrne fantastic Lana, Maria
Perilla
a
(44:03):
Wonderful actor at the helm and a British
actor called Milo
Callahan who's excellent
and
Madison Eiseman who plays his girlfriend
who's a fantastic actor as well. So yeah,
really great people involved helmed by
Michael Seitzman and
Directed by a number of people including
Russell Lee fine who's a brilliant
(44:24):
cinematographer and worked on
Season four and five of the wire
Wow, nice. There you go. That's a worthy
hidden gem. This is this is the big week
So yeah, there you go. The Rainmaker give
it a watch. Love that
That's the show. Hope you enjoyed it
Leave us a review a like if you get a
chance if you enjoyed it and see you next
(44:47):
week. See you next week guys
But it just so happens in our
(00:01):
culture, we don't really touch.
Like, you know, I wasn't hugged a lot.
Like in Asian culture, you kind of don't.
That's the, that's the whole thing.
It's just don't hug each other.
I mean, welcome to the actor's guide to
the end of the world podcast,
where we talk about acting in Hollywood
in a way people understand.
(00:22):
I'm your host, E-Kan Soong.
And this is.
Rían Sheehy Kelly
We also talk about
acting in a real sexy way.
We don't laugh.
We don't.
At all.
We might, we might test that out.
Make it sound, make it
seem really alluring.
Listen to us wherever you find your
podcast at Actors Guide Podcast.
We have video on YouTube and Substack.
(00:43):
We have new episodes every Monday.
Make sure you follow us on all social
media at Actors Guide Podcast.
Yeah.
We're talking MySpace.
We're talking Friendster.
We're talking Bebo.
Get on them all.
God, I went, I got to
see this Bebo thing.
Dude, you would have loved Bebo.
For those old enough and in the right
region of the world, Bebo was incredible.
(01:04):
I can't even describe how cool it was.
Like it was our first
form of social media.
You could give someone
your love for the day.
That was a thing that you
could give, but only one person.
You could have like a video box on your
page, on your homepage.
You could do, I don't know.
It was cool.
It was cool.
You could have your top friends.
So people would like,
that was a big thing.
Like your top.
Oh, I remember that was it.
(01:24):
MySpace did something similar.
Did they?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm sure a lot of it was ripped from
MySpace, but it was
definitely, um, the best
form of social media that has existed.
I think so far.
Well, a lot of people are missing the
days of Instagram where you can just
casually post a photo and, and, and we
know that that's not, that's not going to
be a welcome by the algorithm.
So, um, yeah, it's just not those days,
(01:47):
not those days anymore.
Those days are gone.
On the show for today, Actors Access, the
popular Actors site has changed their
terms of service, who has it these days.
And it puts all of us
Actors in a sticky situation.
We also talk about holding onto your
status and power as an actor in an
industry where that does not
necessarily come naturally.
(02:08):
Also how 30% of kids chose YouTuber as
their number one profession.
Good times.
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And now comes with a bidet.
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So I do need to talk about
this Actors Access thing.
Um, so there's a kicker to
the story and I have to be very
delicate of how I put this.
(02:50):
Actors Access, um, they recently changed
their terms of service.
Yeah.
Let's give this some context just for
people who don't know, like my dad
who listens to this podcast.
Hi dad.
So basically as a, as a brief overview,
in order to submit for auditions,
there are a couple of casting websites,
which you need to be a member of and
need to go through because there is
(03:10):
literally no other way to do this.
There's a monopoly on it.
There is a monopoly.
So there's a couple and there's, there's
a few of them, but a lot of the casting
websites are owned by one company.
Now Actors Access and Casting Networks
are two separate companies.
Um, Casting Networks is owned by a
company called, I think, Talent
Services, Inc.
And they own, I think five casting
(03:32):
websites, including Spotlight in the UK.
So basically you pay
to be on these websites.
They host your headshots, some video, but
essentially the same thing.
You have to pay to be on these websites
in order to submit for jobs to get work.
So it is in essence,
a pay to play system.
I heard what the issue was with the
(03:52):
change in the terms of service and put
in a clause saying that if you opt in,
you are not allowed to participate in
a class action lawsuit, you are not
allowed to sue them in
a class action lawsuit.
Now this sounds innocuous because most
companies do do this.
It's pretty standard for
a lot of tech companies.
(04:14):
It just so happens that it triggered me
because I'm aware that Actors Access
and Casting Frontier, um, break down,
talent systems, casting networks.
Yeah.
Casting networks.
They have an active class action lawsuit
against them from last year.
Yeah.
So it's just the timing of it.
(04:35):
I was like, Oh hell no.
If you opt in, you would, uh, essentially
cancel out previous class action lawsuits
that are, that are against them.
So tricking all the Actors logging into
your action Actors Access, Oh, we
changed the terms of
service, blah, blah, blah.
I'm not going to read it.
And then you just
(04:55):
continue and click and click.
Yes.
So I did a video.
I got the word out.
I was not the first one to talk about it.
There's no easy situation around this.
Basically what I was saying or offering
was, Hey, we talked about this on the
podcast, we transfer, change their terms
of service after people balked and called
(05:15):
them out and they rectified it.
This is an opportunity.
We share the word and they realize, Hey,
we're not okay with this.
And maybe they will
change the terms of service.
There's no easy way around this.
I was suggesting if you have an audition,
use email or we transfer, talk to your
(05:36):
agent, this is more work
for the agent as a manager.
I don't think that they would love it.
This is not a great situation to avoid
you and I, uh, uh, not logging into
Actors Access.
Okay.
So there's that, um, that's not a great
situation, but this is essentially
holding out in a way, a quote unquote
boycott of Actors Access until maybe
(05:59):
they change the
situation, change the clause.
Yeah.
That's where we are.
Uh, and someone responded on my reel and
he's in the industry.
I have a loose under a
loose idea of who he is.
Uh, he makes a point.
He goes, you know, that all the companies
have this in their clause.
(06:20):
They were advised by their
legal counsel to put this in.
That's all it is.
Nothing more.
And I try not to be a complete asshole
and I say, that's fair.
Um, the difference.
Oh, he, he, he mentioned TikTok because
TikTok has stuff like that.
(06:41):
A lot of apps, a lot
of platforms have that.
I go, the difference is, is TikTok is a
free app and Actors Access is a service
that essentially has had a monopoly on
our industry that we've been fighting
for years, uh, also just because every
company or a lot of companies have it
(07:01):
doesn't make it right and, uh, doesn't
make, doesn't mean that we can't do
something about it.
And also this one clause is violating the
one, uh, the one opportunity or the one
way that we can actually do something
about it is class action.
Right.
(07:22):
That's the difference.
And it should be noted as well that the
cost of these casting websites
typically falls on Actors.
Uh, casting directors don't pay for the
use of these sites as far as that.
True.
Is that correct?
I think so.
Oh, maybe that's why I got confused.
Agents do have to pay,
but casting directors don't.
Yes.
Okay.
Well that, that kind of makes more sense.
(07:44):
The burden obviously should be on the
studios yet somehow all the actors
are always getting the footing, the bill.
Yeah.
So the kicker to the story, I was
optimistically just hoping that, you
know, the, the problem would vanish.
I'm going to be very discreet when I say
this, uh, people higher up contacted me.
(08:06):
My rep and, uh, wanted
to point out a few things.
They saw my video.
I was kind of impressed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, I was kind of impressed slash
surprised that they saw my video.
Um, I'm not going to say too much here,
but, uh, they expressed their point.
(08:32):
Saying that this is fairly standard of,
you know, being advised by your council.
And I have an opportunity to send them a
message and I'm not joking
around when I say that I have an
opportunity to kind of share my side of
what is our world in which you just
respond with, I know
you are, but what am I?
(08:54):
We'll see if I can't
think of anything better.
Yeah.
Takes one for that one.
The one thing I will say is, is, um, if
you're a new actor and why, I don't want
to say you knew, if you're an actor who's
actively submitting on actor's
access, submitting yourself, and maybe
don't have a rep, you're in a really
tough position, you probably clicked yes
on the, on the thing.
(09:15):
No one blames you.
It's a crappy situation.
There's no real way around it.
You and I are not actively on actors
access all the time.
So we kind of can, can skate by, but I
just want to say this
is a crappy situation.
So, uh, you know, we're just trying to
find our way out of it.
And before we leave this, I will say just
like, you know, that obviously there
(09:35):
needs to be a platform by
which you can submit auditions.
I understand that like it may, you know,
there is a cost to that, to
hosting and everything else.
I think it's just unfairly weighted
against actors where there, we bear the
cost of all of that stuff, where they're
not charging studios for the use of these
websites and they're not charging the
(09:56):
parent casting directors.
So it's just, it just seems like it's
very unfairly weighted on the part of the
industry that has in some ways, the least
power that has to, you know, that
has to use these
things in order to get work.
And if you're not charging anyone else,
that just feels unfair.
I think that's the, that's a great point.
That's a great point.
That's at the heart of like the, the sort
(10:19):
of unfair way that this is, is skewed.
Yeah.
The burden should be on the studios or at
least try to make it easier on us.
And it's not, and then, you know, actors
don't know where to direct their
anger and, and frustration.
And yeah, it's just, we're
still in the same situation.
Right.
And in an industry that's, that's often
(10:40):
hard to make a living in.
There are a lot of costs involved with
just staying in the game.
And like I say, I've
chosen to be in this industry.
I understand that, that it is not
necessarily fair and that there are these
things exist, it's just the more of them
there are, the more difficult it is to
maintain and, and, and have like, you
know, we've talked about this before, but
(11:01):
like the sort of middle-class actor who
makes enough money to do, to have a life
and support themselves and a family, you
know, if that's, if that's their
situation with acting and that's ever
increasingly hard to do, I think.
And, and there are a lot of things like
(11:22):
the cost of all of these, all of these
considerations go, go into that.
So I think more fairness would be, or
just spreading out some of the, the
bird would be really helpful.
Actually, this is helpful.
This is, this is the
core of it right here.
My reps were very kind and said, I wasn't
in trouble, but it does make me think.
(11:44):
It does make me consider what
I share on social media now.
It's funny, isn't it?
Getting in trouble is like a big fear of
mine, like a vague fear that sits in the
back of my eye, I don't
want to get in trouble.
I don't want to piss anyone off.
I don't want to get in trouble.
Just, it's a funny one, like in trouble.
Like being kicked out of,
there's so many actors I know.
(12:06):
Yeah. I think actors are in general are coming
from a place of fear and powerlessness.
Yeah.
What do you, what do
you want to get trouble?
I don't want to, I don't know.
I think it's just maybe
the way it's sort of set up.
It's the way you, maybe it's the way, uh,
the industry feels when you come into it.
Like there's a sort of,
uh, there's a hierarchy.
(12:28):
This is a great segue.
So we're moving on from actors.
We're going to do a little, uh, recap or
a little after party talk about, uh, our
recent guests, Patrick
Masset and also Kevin Walsh.
We did a back to back
episodes with, with two guests.
There were, there were a lot of fun.
It was an insight into, well, Patrick
specifically, we got a real insight into
(12:49):
what Hollywood used to be like.
And, uh, there was a, uh, kind of outs,
like Patrick had a great stories about,
but against all odds, you know, getting
scripts out there, uh, uh, getting
pitches and selling, selling scripts
early on in their career, there was a
(13:10):
renegade mentality, but it not at all.
Did I feel like Patrick felt powerless or
against the machine
or bottom of the totem
pole.
I still feel like there are some actors
that I know that don't feel low status.
(13:33):
No people pleasing, uh, uh, afraid.
And then there are some actors that do,
and this is not about whether they're
famous or not, but I just think there's
an interesting shift where it's easy for
an actor to be pigeonholed low status.
Yet personally for me, you know, maybe,
maybe that's my problem.
Maybe that's my problem.
I don't personally feel,
(13:55):
um, afraid all the time.
Yeah.
Afraid that I'm going to lose the job.
Afraid of even in our little actors
access situation, I
did not really feel that
scared, but my point is, is where, where
do, where do people fall in line?
Because I feel like that's been handed
over to us from an old slowly dying
(14:18):
version of Hollywood that I don't know,
for some reason, it just trickled down to
all the actors and
actors feel low status.
Yeah.
And I think you make a few really good
points there and talking about Patrick
in the sort of golden age of Hollywood,
it did, you know, his experience of it
was, was, you know, gave us a sort of a
window into like the sort of cool
seat of the pants,
(14:39):
things are getting made.
You know, it was a really, it was a
really cool snapshot.
However, the industry was far from
perfect in those days.
You know what I mean?
There was a lot of, there was a lot of
inequality in, you know, there was
that there was discrimination.
There was all of these
other things going on.
So it was the golden era for
some people, but not for others.
(15:00):
Um, but what you're talking about the
status thing is, is, is great because
I think some of like, I don't feel low
status either, but I think some of that
has come with age and experience.
I think when you're starting out, when
you're new, it's much easier to
feel kind of, um, overwhelmed by it.
(15:22):
But I think the trick is to like, find
that, find that high status and that
sense of self worth and self esteem.
Um, in an industry that doesn't promote
it necessarily, it's the trick
is to find it for yourself somehow.
And I, I'm not claiming to have any
answers there at all, but, but the
actors that I see do well tend to have
(15:43):
that, whether it comes from like a full
life, or it's just how they are in the
world or their, their own self belief.
They are the actors, the ones, the most
successful actors I know seem to have,
have that kind of status.
Um, whether it's acquired or natural.
And I think the trick is to try and find
that as best you can.
(16:04):
Some of it is creating your own work.
I see, I see that in people who like, we
had this talk in, in class, in a
day, where one of the actors was talking
about, he goes, well,
I don't really feel,
we were talking about, you know, the
state of the industry and, and, and, you
know, where we're at right now.
And a lot of people have a very bleak
outlook on that, but, but his take on it,
which I thought was kind of cool was he's
(16:24):
like, well, I don't, he's like, I've
never felt welcomed by the industry.
He's like, so for me, he's like the kind
of, you know, what I see as the, the way
for it is to just keep
making my own work, directing.
He's like, just got an
interest in directing.
He's just directed his, you
know, his first short film.
So his, his, his approach to it is born
(16:45):
of years of never feeling like he was in
the circle or, you know what I mean?
Like, like it was
welcoming him in with open arms.
So it's made no difference.
It was like during the strike when there
was people who were used to actors who
were used to supporting themselves with
another job, it didn't necessarily hit
them as hard as the actors who are
working pretty consistently just from
(17:06):
because they didn't have a fallback.
They didn't have, then
they had to scramble for jobs.
So it's an interesting thing.
People's people's approach to it and
where they find that sense of sense of
status and sense of self worth.
That's not connected to whether
somebody's going, here's a job or not.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
I'm going back to you said that, uh, and
(17:27):
this might be completely disconnected.
You said that you always felt like, you
know, growing up or in the back of your
head, you always thought that, Oh, I
might get in trouble
or I might do something
wrong, or I might get in like, what,
what, what, how's
that play into all this?
Because you have a pretty good sense of,
you know, mindset, but that sometimes
just pops in your head.
Yeah.
It's just something I
(17:47):
have to contend with.
And I think it's a sort of, uh, I don't
know if it's an anxiety thing, but it's
just, uh, for no reason at all at times,
my brain will tell me everybody's mad at
you and it's all your fault.
You know what I mean?
It's just things like that.
Like, Oh no, I've
pissed everybody off somehow.
You know what I mean?
(18:07):
Um, uh, and I think that's just part of
the daily sort of mental stuff that I
deal with sometimes.
No, it doesn't ripple me.
You know what I mean?
It doesn't affect my life.
I think in the past that times it was
more, um, impactful on my sort of mental
(18:30):
general overall mental health.
But I can slip back in there if I'm not,
if I'm, if I'm not careful, you know what
I mean?
I'm like, I'm like, Oh no, I've, I've
pissed everyone off.
Um, and I have heard some people I've
heard, I've heard people have those
feelings every so often that makes sense.
But how I, I mean, I generally walk
around the world pretty confident.
(18:50):
You know what I mean?
I'm, I'm good at talking to people.
I like people.
I enjoy that.
Yeah.
You're comfortable.
You're fairly comfortable in your skin.
You know, going back to the, this, this
idea and going back to our, our recent
conversations, that's what was so
striking to me
because obviously completely
different worlds of, of Kevin Walsh and
Patrick Masset, they were both great
(19:10):
conversations, just
completely different worlds.
Right.
But in those, it was kind of, for me, it
was kind of a snapshot of being in, uh,
and the entertainment industry.
I wouldn't even necessarily say
Hollywood, but being in the, in the
entertainment industry.
Kevin Walsh was a perfect example of
he's, he's been around.
He's lived a couple of lives, uh, a
(19:31):
former, uh, footballer, formal football
prayer, player, the phrase footballer.
I know exactly.
Exactly.
It's like, this is, this
is the proper way to say it.
I've already, I'm learning here.
So, uh, for soccer, for the Americans.
I appreciate that.
Exactly.
Exactly.
That feels like the coolest way to say it
to my definitely is because it doesn't
apply here.
(19:51):
You can't say an NFL
player is a football.
Exactly.
They're like a football player.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Um, anyway, so baller, it was just, it
was kind of inspiring
because this is a guy, uh,
always was interested in acting classes,
workshops, want to talk about movies,
(20:12):
uh, you know, see plays, even when he
was, you know, even
before he was an actor.
Moving out to LA, he has a bar job.
He has a, you know, a, a, a, a young kid.
And yet it does not look like he's lost
any enthusiasm of doing the grind of, uh,
(20:34):
getting in the entertainment industry,
booking jobs and working at it and
pursuing his dream, not at any point does
he feel low status or he's embarrassed
tail between his legs.
He's making work.
And also he just worked his ass off, um,
putting together a play and successfully
closing a play last, last month in LA.
(20:55):
So it's like, you know, that kind of like
my point where in this conversation, um,
mindset and how you carry yourselves.
I think that's, it's inspiring.
It's inspiring for me.
That's one, one of the takeaways for me.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I think a positive attitude
carries people a long way.
Cause like you see, you see what people
(21:16):
in all walks of life, but there are
people, I don't have to be careful.
Myself, the way I talk about myself, I
have to be careful with that because I
can, I can, I can use negative language
at times, which doesn't serve me.
Cause it sort of
reinforces negative beliefs in me.
So I have to be careful about the
language that I use, the
(21:37):
way I think about things.
That takes constant,
um, adjusting, I think.
Uh, you know, just in life, I have to be
aware of when I'm like, oh, that's not,
that's not a helpful way because the
people that I like to
be around are people
who are positive, you know, people who
are, you know, that make you feel good.
(21:57):
And that don't, don't try and convince
you of how tough things are for them in
order to like, listen to
response, um, whatever that is.
And I'm not like, and I'm
not denigrating that either.
Cause I understand sort of where it comes
from, but it's, I have to kind of put a
lot of, not a lot of them, but I have to
(22:18):
put work in, I think,
to, to, to reminding
myself of like, that's
how I want to live my life.
Cause it feels good.
Feeling positive feels good.
Feeling resentful or
feeling bitter or feeling angry.
You know, it doesn't, it's not enjoyable.
You know, there's a, there's a kind of,
uh, you know, that, that, that kind of
(22:39):
self-righteous sort of justified anger
can feel kind of good in a moment.
But overall is not a, it's not
a healthy way for me to live.
It's not a positive way for me to live.
This just came into my
mind and I'm kind of ripping.
I probably heard Seth Godin, who's a
brilliant author, you know, say something
similar to this, but I have to ask you
(23:00):
because I'm trying to pinpoint it because
you and I are, are, you know, a few
things we, we, we think very differently.
Would you say that your
feelings dictate your actions or
your actions dictate your feelings?
Uh, I have learned that
my actions dictate my fear.
Well, I think that a lot of, you know, a
number of years sober and you
(23:22):
know, in sort of like a number of years
in recovery has
really turned that around.
By the way, congratulations.
I don't know if you say that.
Yeah.
So for sober birthday.
Yes.
That's right.
14, 14, 14 years, which is magic.
(23:43):
It's, it's, it's a, it's an absolute
gift, but the, like, you know, learning
from other people has turned that around
and it's a great distinction because I
think I used to be, my actions
used to be led by my feelings.
And I think I have learned now that it's
absolutely the opposite.
They, they say, um,
(24:03):
esteemable actions create self-esteem.
You know, and I have learned that my
actions can absolutely change and dictate
my mood and it's only
action that changes my mood.
I often can't think my way out of
something negative, but I can act my
way out of it and, and,
and my thinking will change.
(24:24):
Now I didn't come up
with that myself at all.
I learned that from other people, but
I've, I've, I've seen it work in my
life time and time again, and it's
something that, uh, I try to practice.
You know, daily now.
So absolutely you're right.
Actions dictate feeling and I don't, I
don't do it perfectly by any means.
(24:44):
I mean, I do, you know, have my feelings
do often dictate actions, but I've
learned that like,
it's, it's the opposite.
It's kind of the, when you think about
the theory of
meditation, like not getting
attached to the thoughts that come into
your mind, but just kind of letting them
pass, not letting the thoughts dictate
your feeling, because you know, like when
(25:06):
you, when you have anxious thoughts in
your mind, your body changes, you know,
you produce cortisol, your, your, your
heart rate increases, your adrenaline
increases, all of these things.
You know, there's a lot of evidence to
back up the fact that, you know, if you
can change your thoughts, it changes
your, your, your chem,
the chemistry of your
body and the way that I, the most
(25:26):
efficient way I have found to get there
is to take some contrary action to take
some action that seems like it's not
the answer, you know, and again, that
was, you know, I learned
that from other people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The one thing I will say is when I w when
I was saying that, you know, in a lot of
(25:47):
ways you and I are fairly different and I
won't go on and on about this, but, you
know, needless to say, and I don't know
if you knew this, I'm Asian.
We're not known for being very emotional
growing up with a lot of feelings.
Uh, sorry.
I just, I just need a sec.
I just need to say, I know exactly.
I know this is the shocker reading.
(26:07):
I'm still reading from that revelation as
an audio podcasts, you know, that, that
would, that would have been, I feel like
that would have been
pertinent information
to have at the beginning.
If you can't see that, Ryan is reeling
for the listeners because they can't see
your, your facial expressions, but you
know, you can, you can see it on YouTube
and sub stack everyone.
(26:28):
I grew up in an environment where we
don't, we don't, you
know, we didn't grow up
very expressive, effusive of our
feelings, yada, yada, yada.
Feelings are so not part of my language.
They almost don't even exist.
And so that's part of the reason why I
became an actor because I was like, oh,
there are all these other things that
people experience and think about and
(26:49):
talk about.
And I'm like, Oh, there might be some
really cool things in
that, but I absolutely
had no recollection of any
of those things growing up.
And so that's my baseline zero.
And so here I am, I'm so captivated by
how you look at the world because I'm
talking to all the actors and they tell
me about their feelings.
(27:11):
And I'm like, wow, I can't even imagine
being so wrapped up in feelings and being
like, wow, they felt this way and it
caused them to do this and that.
And they're feeling that.
And I'm like, I almost don't even, I
can't almost can't even comprehend it.
Huh?
And so that's where the two, the two
(27:33):
sides of this where
that's where I'm coming from.
So that's why I love having these
conversations because I'm, I'm, I'm
learning more about this world, but I'm
also learning more about myself.
To be honest.
So I grew up in a culture that's not big
on, Oh, that's true.
Man expressing his
feelings either, to be honest.
You know what I mean?
It's changing, but that has to start to
(27:55):
be the case in Ireland.
It's still a far stretch from typical
Asian culture though.
Probably.
I don't know, to be honest.
I don't really know.
Really?
I know that like that, you know, the,
the, the Ireland that
I grew up in, you know,
guys didn't really talk
about their feelings too much.
Um, which was a problem.
Um, let me, let me put it this way.
(28:16):
Did you guys hug?
Yeah, we did.
Yeah.
My family are very
loving and very, um, open.
My, my, my family, I just meant the
culture is sort of at large.
But, um, I just want to say this.
I don't want to engender stereotypes.
The fact that Asians might be
colder or less, less feeling.
(28:39):
It's just how they show
their feeling in, in the culture.
My parents love me tons and I, I, I've
come to grips with that as I, as I grown
older, it wasn't always roses growing up,
but, but it just so
happens in our culture.
We don't really touch like, you know, I
wasn't hugged a lot.
Like in Asian culture, you kind of don't
(29:00):
that's the, that's the whole thing.
It's just different.
You know what I mean?
Okay.
I mean, it's like, it's like, you know, I
don't want this to be weird, but it's
like, I, you need to go to one of those
groups where they just hug each other.
I saw it on TV.
No, it's just, it's just not our usual
thing where it's like, if you say I love
(29:22):
you, then someone usually just gets
confused and not know how to respond.
You know, it's just like, that's, that's
kind of like, and I'm not saying that the
old Asian people are like that.
It's just, of course, right.
It's just show love in different ways.
I'm not, I'm not knocking at all.
I'm just saying that this,
this is a different language.
How is it shown then?
What's the mechanism?
(29:43):
What's the, you know, this is really a
therapy session at this point.
Um, I would guess, uh, well, I, I, I
would, I would default to the, the, the
love languages.
If anyone knows that book, um, there's
the, did you, have
you ever heard of this?
The, the five love languages.
(30:04):
It's basically, um, I think it's vaguely,
but not, yeah, it's essentially words,
words, gifts, touch, spending time.
To be honest, I always forget the fifth,
but my point is, is high fives.
I want to say, um, gift gift cards.
(30:27):
Close Asian culture for sure.
It's, I felt love through
protection, taking care of.
Wow.
That's interesting.
It just reminded me of something there
and it's not, maybe this is not
parallel, just, it just sparks up naming,
but the play, um, I think it's
fences is the play.
Oh, okay.
(30:48):
Uh, by August Wilson.
And it was done.
There's two, there's a video that goes
around of like, there's a scene.
Um, I think it's, but there's two, uh,
James Earl Jones played the
role and then years later.
Oh, well, Dunsell did the movie.
Sorry.
That's right.
(31:08):
Yeah.
But he did the play as well.
Oh yeah, he did.
He, I hear that's right.
He did the play.
Yeah.
So James Earl Jones.
And he's and if the scene is the dad gone
like you I don't have to
like you I put food on the table
That's the I'm paraphrasing, but that's
(31:29):
the basic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I
take care of you. I make
sure you eat. Yeah. Yeah
It's a great thing.
Yeah, but it's interesting
I don't know why that it just sparked out
of me where I was like
who says I got to like you
You know that idea of like don't I do all
these things? That's how that's how love
was shown in that instance
But yeah, yeah, no, there's definitely a
parallel there. No, you're right, but I
(31:49):
don't get the sense
that you feel like you
were
Deprived
Necessarily, I don't feel like oh, yeah
Yeah, I absolutely do not obviously if
anyone knows me I spend a lot of time
with my family if anything
I spend more time with my family than
most people. I absolutely enjoy it.
There's not part of it. That's a burden
I we have a great relationship and yeah,
(32:10):
absolutely no point was it do I ever feel
deprived that that was no
I don't I don't get this answer you do
I'm very fortunate. I mean
both of us have great families
I forget that sometimes
as well because I know that
You know, I hear
people talk about you know
I went home to wherever the grammar, you
know to see family and
they'd say it like it's a chore
Almost sometimes, you know something like
(32:32):
you know, I spent four days on my family
So I couldn't wait to get out of there
Never in my life has a trip to Ireland
been long enough for me
it is always too short and I was just
home for six months
and that was too short I
Miss it all the time. So
when I every time I leave
Every time I've left and no
trip has ever been so I had
(32:54):
Other things to bring out today. I had a
super fun thing that we're probably gonna
have to push the next week
What a teaser guys tune in next week for
the super the super fun
thing that he comes talking about
I know I had a lot of fun things planned
But I don't know if you if you're aware
of this the survey of when they when they
ask the kids of what they want
(33:15):
To be when they grow up
Guess what the number one the number one
profession is youtuber or streamer
according to the study
out of 12 to 15 year olds
polled 30% of them wanted to be youtubers
or streamers my point is is
this is the world that we live in and I I
(33:36):
Don't hate it that everyone wants to be a
youtuber and streamer
These are the options that we gave them
These are the options that are the most
efficient because if you
play your cards, right?
you're gonna meet Barack Obama and you're
gonna sell ads on better help and AG one
and you're gonna achieve
all your dreams on YouTube and
(33:56):
express your desires and
meanwhile most of the the the majors that
are being studied in college those jobs
are not going to exist in five years, so
You know starting the conversation now
with Patrick Madison and Kevin Walsh and
this is what Hollywood is and this is
what Hollywood used to
I've made
this revelation this past month where
(34:18):
Hollywood is completely changed
YouTube is the number one streamed
platform by a mile and
This is what we have to deal with. Yeah,
and so I'm looking at all the other
actors and and many
actors and many writers
morning the days and
Gripping on to what Hollywood used to be
(34:38):
with cold dead hands
and I'm like, oh my god
it's like I've been holding on for a
pretty long time and
I'm like, I I don't I think
I'm finally about to let go now
I don't know where you fall in this but
here I am us talking about
this stuff and I'm gonna be like I
Do not want to be the dinosaur
(35:00):
the the last one at
the party holding on to a
Fading delusion and this is where my head
is going and I'm trying to
release myself of all this anyway
Yeah, that's my that's my spiel which is
what but I've heard it anecdotally from
my friends who have kids that like
You know one of my friends asked his
(35:21):
Nice or nephew what are you into? You
know, what are you
like? What are you into?
What do you like to do and they said
YouTube shorts that was their interest.
That was what they were into YouTube
shorts short videos on YouTube
So I I just YouTube
YouTube shorts very specific
So I agree with you that like I that is
the way things are going
(35:41):
I think it boils down to
the fact that like this career
Has never and will never look like I
think it's going to look even if it's
Whatever. I think it is. I'm always
100% wrong because I can never predict
how it's gonna look it is an
unpredictable career
And even when I think something's gonna
go one way the reality of it
(36:02):
is always something different
The second I think I know how something's
going to go. I'm wrong.
You're okay with the unknown and
I think there's a lot of humility in that
I think that that's fair.
Yeah. Yeah. No, I get that
I think you know, I tried to be because I
I find myself going well
this is gonna be that or this is gonna be
that I can't but I have to
just be open to everything and
You know, I heard John Spencer talk about
(36:24):
it the late the late John
Spencer who's a brilliant actor
Also, you know was sober
Was sober a number of years when he died,
but he talked about how
Acting was his drug
the next job was his drug
That was his addiction was getting the
next job getting the next job
And I kind of thought landed with me
because I really resonate
with that because I love it
(36:45):
So much that that the thrill of getting
the job and then getting to do the job
and meeting everybody
Is the buzz of it for me?
And then what happens after that is not
as important. It used to be more
important, but it's
somewhere along the way. I've kind of
you know
That's faded to the background a bit, you
(37:05):
know, right on that note if that's
something that obviously
I'm assuming you could you could say that
You could say that that's a bad thing or
you could say that
it's a good thing which
Part the idea that a job is almost like
that. That's the drug is
getting to the next job
Yeah, so how do you take I'm not I'm not
saying it as about or go thing. I'm just
(37:26):
I'm just kind of that's how it feels
to me I don't know if it's a good thing
or a bad thing but ultimately it's not
gonna make you happy, you know
I mean if it is a true addiction and and
and just getting the job is the absolute
goal of your life then getting the
Job is not gonna make you happy because
it's always gonna go but I think there is
a there is a certain aspect of it
You know for me there is
a certain aspect of that
(37:46):
Ever in my life cuz ultimately that no no
career is ever gonna make you happy
This this is actually thank you for
bringing that that's actually also a way
of where we're going with this the whole
bringing up the whole
YouTube streamer thing if
This is the new Hollywood in a way.
That's a great opportunity for a lot of
people because it's
eliminating gatekeepers
It's eliminating gatekeepers
(38:06):
You could create something on YouTube or
tick-tock or create something and blow up
and I think that's kind
of like where a lot of
Actors, you know, maybe like you and I
where it's like that that doesn't come
That's not first thing on our list. Yeah,
and I think that what
I'm getting at is is is
there are
(38:27):
the industry took a huge hit how do you
get your power back and
What happens because what happens when
there's no studios to get jobs from or
shoes or shows or films?
Now here's the thing. Obviously, we know
that studios are not going to disappear
but on that note if there are fewer jobs
(38:50):
fewer actors who get that buzz and
Then what next
obviously I this is getting dark
But let me let me just say what what the
next segment was because I
gotta end on a happier note
So we were supposed to talk about the New
York Times top 100 list
Yeah, so my whole big plan spoiler alert.
We didn't make the list this year. Yeah
(39:11):
so New York Times put out the top 100
films of the 21st century and
They put this out maybe a month ago
It's really interesting. It's these are
the best films from the past 25 years and
so my whole mindset of all this is is we
see where Hollywood is we're embracing
(39:33):
where Hollywood's going and
Also, I don't know if we got time today.
We might have to do it next
week. We get to appreciate
The greatest films of the past 25 years
and my point is is if we can't appreciate
the best films of the 21st century
Hollywood is cooked
Hollywood is so cooked if we can't you
(39:54):
know at least embrace
what?
the great
History and the films that Hollywood has
produced. That's my that's my
Just the only thing a lot to that before
we wrap it up is like
There are there are
good and bad aspects to
Everything if you look at the music
(40:14):
industry as a parallel the music industry
completely changed with stream
Big record deals went away. Nobody could
make money nobody musician very hard for
musicians to make money
on the flip side of that
There's access anybody can make music,
you know same as same
as the film industry
It used to be very expensive and only a
few people could make movies because only
a few people had the
money in the equipment
(40:35):
Now with the advent of technology and the
internet everything else
everybody can make a movie
So there's a democratization of access,
but there's also you know the breaking of
the system that that benefited
You know a few people in a huge way
so I don't know I
Feel that whatever comes next is
(40:55):
You know could be great like if the
studio system breaks down completely
Okay
then everybody just makes like you say
YouTube is the way for it and people
making their own content and
We'll see where that goes
But I you know, I don't know
I don't know all I know is what I can
control and that's to get as good at this
as I can and try and make
you know make stuff
(41:15):
with people that I like and
Take it from there. I'm not trying to
predict the future. Yeah, as I'm
100% wrong every time. All right, that's
a great place to end it
Just remember Reins Reins wrong a hundred
percent of the time you heard it here
folks. Yeah. Yep. I am the world's worst
Fortune chatter. Do you have a hidden
(41:37):
gem? I actually do have a hidden gem. Um,
let me let me throw something out there
Now I
Don't know if in all honesty, I don't
know how often people have been using it
But let me just tell you that I used it
for the first time and
I was really impressed
so
it's
(41:58):
It's built on it's essentially comes with
every iPhone. I think they
have a basic translate app
it has many many languages, hopefully it
has your language, but
There's a part of it
where you can essentially
Use the camera within the app to take a
picture of language and it
(42:18):
just instantly translates it
Yeah
Now I know that probably androids had
this five seven years ago
This is not even this is like the basic
iPhone app where I'm talking about like
my mom is writing messy Chinese like
quick casual handwriting Chinese and
They translated it really
(42:39):
well and I'm like, oh my god
This is what we're talking about reading
Chinese. I'm like, yeah,
that's pretty good. Anyway, so
let me I mean, I don't know if a bunch of
people have already been using this but I
I was pretty blown away by how easy it
was to use so that's
my that's my hidden gem
(42:59):
Nice. Nice. Yeah, okay
My hidden gem for this
week is by no means hidden
But it is a gem. I'm gonna add to the
visibility of it because it's pretty
visible as it is, but the Rainmaker
TV show Oh
Comes okay next Friday actually it'll be
coming out this if you're
listening to this on a Monday
(43:20):
It'll be coming up the same
week Friday the 15th. Nice
There you go Friday the 15th of August on
USA Network and then a week later
streaming on peacock
It is a peacock as adaptation of a John
Grisham novel. There was a movie the
Rainmaker with Matt Damon years ago
This is the TV series version
of it. It's got a great cast
(43:40):
Of which I am a grateful member
Yeah, and had a blast shooting us. But
yeah, it's got really good
really good people involved
I think it's gonna be really cool tell
some of the cast John Slattery John
Slattery great actor PJ
Byrne fantastic Lana, Maria
Perilla
a
(44:03):
Wonderful actor at the helm and a British
actor called Milo
Callahan who's excellent
and
Madison Eiseman who plays his girlfriend
who's a fantastic actor as well. So yeah,
really great people involved helmed by
Michael Seitzman and
Directed by a number of people including
Russell Lee fine who's a brilliant
(44:24):
cinematographer and worked on
Season four and five of the wire
Wow, nice. There you go. That's a worthy
hidden gem. This is this is the big week
So yeah, there you go. The Rainmaker give
it a watch. Love that
That's the show. Hope you enjoyed it
Leave us a review a like if you get a
chance if you enjoyed it and see you next
(44:47):
week. See you next week guys
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