February 24, 2025 • 28 mins
Welcome to Episode 17 of the Actor's Guide to the End of the World!
Maya Hawke's comments about Instagram and social media have sent shockwaves through the acting community and Hollywood, shining a light on the state of the industry and asking the big question - do actors have to be on social media? E-Kan and Rían dig into the power of social media, their love hate relationship with it, and the hard truth actors need to face - but also uncover the brighter side and how this might not be as bad as it sounds. And if you’re an actor not on social media, this episode might change your mind. On the flip side, E-Kan mentions some things that actors can learn from the YouTubers and some telling signs of how the industry embraces them even more with high profile projects as well as why fame is more ambiguous than ever right now. And coincidentally, Rian will finally find out who Mr. Beast is. The icing on the cake? Ethan Hawke's comments about all this was HILARIOUS. You’re not going to want to miss this.
They also get into the hidden world of financing an Oscar campaign and how much it really costs to win an Oscar. Is it worth it? They get into what goes on behind the scenes, the many rules and regulations controlling how you campaign and what you can and cannot say. Listen and you’ll find out the moment in history when Oscar campaigns really became a thing. And if that wasn't enough, Brady Corbet, award winning director of Oscar favorite "The Brutalist" reveals he made zero dollars for making the movie and shoots commercials to pay the bills.
This gets the guys onto the interesting balance between making money and pursuing your creative ambitions. E-Kan shares why he thinks he has been so successful in the commercial world and gives insight on the power of mindset, and Rían shares a cool metaphor for building new neural pathways he learned from Lesly Kahn. This is going to be a good one, folks.
New episodes every Monday! All shows are on YouTube and Substack as well! Let us know what you think. Email us at actorsguidepodcast@gmail.com. Follow us on all social media @actorsguidepodcast
https://variety.com/2025/tv/news/maya-hawke-producers-cast-actors-instagram-followers-1236309282/
https://variety.com/2025/film/awards/the-brutalist-brady-corbet-no-money-1236311496/
https://deadline.com/2023/10/oscars-campaign-fees-rising-1235585681/
Hidden Gems:
White House (Baldoyle) -http://thewhitehousebarandfood.com/
Nobel Prize Winner - Harvard Professor William Lipscomb
Time stamps:
(00:00) Intro
(03:40) Maya Hawke and Instagram
(11:30) Why this is a trap for actors
(13:40) Do actors need to be on social media?
(15:30) What are the best practices for actors and Instagram?
(16:30) They've been doing this forever
(20:30) Studios are starting to invest in Influencers
(25:20) What Ethan Hawke had to say about it
(27:40) How much does an Oscar campaign cost?
(29:45) Brady Corbet made zero dollars on The Brutalist
(34:00) The mindset traps for actors and building new neural pathways
(41:00) When Oscar campaigns became a thing
(43:00) Hidden Gems
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Ethan Hawke went on to say he meets so
many young actors that think being an
actor is protein
shakes and going to the gym.
I saw that quote.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh my God. This makes
it all so much better.
Hey guys, this is the Actors Guide to the
End of the World podcast where we talk
about acting in Hollywood
in a way people understand.
I'm E-Kan Soong and this is...
Rían Sheehy Kelly, how are you doing?
(00:21):
Follow us wherever you find your podcast
at Actors Guide podcast.
We're on YouTube, we're on Substack and
follow us on all social
media at Actors Guide podcast.
So on the episode today,
the lot to a lot to jump into.
We're going to start with Maya Hawke's
comments on Instagram and social media.
How Instagram is maybe unfortunately for
a lot of actors a necessary part of the
(00:43):
filmmaking business.
Also, Ethan Hawke had comments about it,
which were really funny.
We're going to talk about how much money
actually goes into an Oscar campaign.
All the money that we don't hear that
studios are pumping into these films.
More than you would think.
Then you hear stories like Brady Corbett,
the director of The
Brutalist, said he made no money.
(01:04):
Zero dollars making The Brutalist.
How is that possible?
Exactly. And this is why
you guys got to tune in.
This episode will blow your mind. I'm
just saying it right here.
What a massive claim.
This will blow your mind.
What a massive claim out the gate.
Also, E-Can has some great news, which
we're not allowed to talk
about, but we're just very.
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
(01:25):
Yep, very exciting news.
We're gonna get into
all that this episode.
It's gonna blow your
mind, sit back and enjoy.
Enjoy your last moments of having a mind.
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(01:46):
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(02:06):
conditions or horrified stares.
What's up buddy?
Let me tell you what's up.
I'll tell you what's up.
The sun came out today for
the first time in 11 days.
There has been zero hours
of sunlight for 11 days.
Wow.
And it has been rough.
I nearly cried when
the sun came out today.
It was just...
There might have been an hour of...
(02:27):
There might have been a little bit of
daylight the other day,
but more or less for the last 11 days
we've had zero sunlight.
You know the way in West LA they have
like June gloom and then May gray
and then no sky July.
It was kind of like that
where it was just no sunshine.
But over there it's just called Ireland.
It's just called February.
Yeah.
(02:48):
You really
underestimate how that impacts you.
Everything just felt
very bleak and miserable.
I was like, this is
how we're going to end.
But it's sunny today
and I went for a walk.
All right. So a lot to get into today.
We have a lot...
And before we do, can I just say a
massive congratulations to Egan
(03:10):
who will be working
for the month of March.
I'm thrilled.
We will both be working for
the month of March actually.
On two different projects.
So...
Yeah.
Your boys are going to get
a little work in this month.
So we'll have more details
later on, but it's very exciting.
It's just going to be
great to be back on set.
So I'm pretty thrilled.
(03:30):
But yeah, can't wait to
tell you guys all about it.
So jumping into word
around town, Maya Hawk,
if you do not know of the story,
she was being
interviewed on Happy Sad Confused.
I believe that's the name of the podcast.
And it was pretty eye opening.
The 20 or 30 seconds
that were being circulated,
she was basically saying the conundrum of
(03:51):
being obviously a working actor
and now a known celebrity and also doing
a lot of great films and TV shows.
She's basically saying the conundrum is
she has to be on Instagram
or at least she feels like
she has to be on Instagram.
She was considering
deleting her Instagram.
Yet film producers are saying to her,
(04:12):
you understand that if you have an
Instagram and a
certain amount of followers,
I can most likely get a film financed.
Also, if you don't have an Instagram,
we need a collective amount of followers
from your surrounding cast.
And so this is the analytics.
(04:33):
This is the math of financing and
producing a film in this day and age.
If it's true, and I mean, I have no
reason not to believe what she's saying.
This is the finance and this is the
analytics of creating
a film around someone.
That means that if the lead does not have
a huge Instagram or
social media following,
that means that their ensemble is mostly
(04:55):
going to be a lot of people that do.
Right. So they have to make up the
numbers and that limits
their casting choices.
I do want to make sure it's clear.
Maya Hawk revealed that she knows several
smart directors who
have been told by producers
that they must cast actors with a certain
amount of Instagram followers.
So just to put a little context, it's
like on that level, we're talking,
(05:15):
we're not talking about,
you know, low level directors.
We're talking about the
top and top of the industry.
And this is what the trend is.
Like, well, two things.
One, has it been proven that Instagram
followers translates into box offices?
I mean, is that, I don't know, but like,
(05:35):
is that a proven metric?
You know, if we have a collective
following of 12 million people,
it will equal this
many dollars for a movie.
Is that proven or is that just a, is that
just something that they like believe?
I don't know.
No, I think that's exactly
where my mind went as well.
So we can start right there.
(05:57):
Part of the reason why I feel like, you know, very, you know,
and Ria and I were discussing this a lot
over the past couple of weeks,
when we were discussing the whole four
seconds casting director controversy,
that kind of made its
waves through the Hollywood.
And I was really happy to talk about it
because I saw so many sides of it when
actors and other people were chiming in
(06:17):
on social media and so on and,
and seeing all sides of it.
And this one, I had an
immediate gut reaction as well.
But when you see other people chime in about it, you see,
Oh, this is why they're angry.
This is why they're scared.
And a lot of actors like
you're forcing us to do Instagram.
You're I can't believe you, you can
reduce us to a number
and all these things
(06:37):
that can take power away from an actor.
The way I look at this, I
asked the same exact thing.
You're telling me that Hollywood studios
are trying to use any analytics to make
their business more profitable.
That does not sound like a shock and thatdoes not sound like a shock.
That does not sound like a shock and does
that does not sound like a bad idea.
(06:58):
I will. I will repeat, though.
I have always thought that Hollywood
studios don't know what they're doing
and they don't know now after two strikes
and after a pandemic and after so on
and so forth.
They're trying to figure it out.
Some companies are thriving.
Some companies are stagnant.
But when it comes down to it, these
(07:19):
analytics are the only things that they
have to try to make a profitable,
profitable business.
So I think it's one way for them to try
to have an idea because I agree.
I do not know how many people will tune
into a show because of their huge
following on Instagram.
That being said, someone with a huge
(07:40):
following on Instagram is also kind of
doing free advertising for them.
So that's a plus.
And then on top of it, let's talk about
let's talk about box office bombs.
There's no certainty
for a film to do well.
Off the top of my head, we have, you
know, the fall guy this year was a major
(08:01):
disappointment.
You have Ryan Gosling, you have Emily
Blunt, you have Ryan
Gosling at the height
of his popularity.
And in all honesty, I wish I saw it and I
probably will because I like Ryan
Gosling.
And to be honest, I thought the movie,
for the most part, I thought it looked
really fun.
It checks all the boxes.
And yet that was a major disappointment.
We also have, obviously,
(08:21):
Joker 2 for various reasons.
There are so many films that they're so
optimistic about yet the numbers and
the box office, that was the response.
So what I'm getting into is they need as
much analytics as they can.
And this is just one piece
(08:41):
that may or may not work.
But at least it's
something instead of flying blind.
Yeah.
And I, you know, I understand.
I understand people getting scared of
that idea because it, you know, it seems.
I don't know.
I guess it seems unfair.
But also, so I, years ago, like quite a
few years ago, an actor I know is doing
(09:04):
a movie and one of the execs from the
studio told him that they cast a couple
of people based on
their Instagram following.
So I knew this.
I knew this was a
practice for a few years.
The other thing is after said that, one
of the execs, one of the executives.
But also like I have friends who now have
(09:25):
large Instagram followings, but it's
because of their work that they now have
large Instagram followings.
They didn't start that way
and they just kept getting work.
So to be honest, I, you know, it doesn't,
it doesn't particularly change my
opinion one way or the other.
It's not a surprise really that that's,
that that's a practice and that's a
consideration for studios.
I don't think it's a deal breaker.
(09:47):
You know, I don't feel like it's, it's
going to prevent me from getting work or
not. I'm not, you know what I mean?
My Instagram
following is, is, is not big.
So like, it doesn't really
matter one way or the other.
It's not the difference
between 10,000 and 2 million.
And it doesn't change.
It doesn't change our job.
You know what I mean?
You still have to do it.
It's like the forest, like you said, it's
like the four seconds cast director.
(10:08):
It doesn't change our job.
The other thing about that is, you know,
I suppose it's about advantages in
this industry.
My Hawk came in with advantages, you
know, being, being the daughter of
Ethan Hawke and she, so she already had a
leg up in this industry, which other
people have spoken, you know, spoken
(10:30):
about the whole idea of Nepo babies and
whatever.
And again, it's not something I weighed
into it because it's kind of irrelevant.
You know what I mean?
That's good for her.
Like that's, that's very fortunate for
her and she's capitalized and she's a
very good actor, but people will look to
things as, as a, like as a marker of how
unfair this business can be.
(10:52):
And it's, yeah, it's not fair.
You know what I mean?
Like, I think that's a great point.
That's a great point.
Go ahead.
Yeah, it's just, it's not a
fair business and we know that.
And, uh, I still choose to do it.
So I, you know, I have to accept a
certain amount of
that and go, yeah, okay,
that's just how it is.
You know, I completely agree.
(11:12):
Um, you know, the, the, the power of the
story, first of all, it was, it was nice
when people are openly talking about
what's behind closed doors and, and, and
these meetings, because, you know, for
something that specific, it was news to
me to have it put that bluntly.
But I completely agree when you're an
actor and you freak out or, uh, um, you
know, you're angered or you're saddened.
(11:34):
Are we using this as a story to tell us
and make us feel better?
This is why we're not more successful.
That's a very good point.
It's like you and me kind of like
bouncing each other off where I like to
think that our conversations are actually
lifting each other up.
And maybe some people who are listening
and you could easily take this clip,
this, this, this clip and say, this is
(11:56):
why it's so hard being an actor.
This is why I shouldn't do it.
This is why I don't work.
This is why all the things just
fulfilling that
prophecy of why it's a sad,
hard life, which it's, it's, it is a hard
life, but it doesn't need to be sad and
disempowering.
So that's the shift that I'm making where
(12:16):
this is information.
We're not in control that we don't have
Maya Hawks jeans and who her, our, our
parents are so already right off the bat.
Like you said, it's like, Hey, this was
never really a fair fight.
Yeah, right.
But I agree with you on the conversations
and like, cause sometimes I don't even
know that that story is, is
what's behind the thought.
You know what I mean?
(12:36):
Like that's the, that's the, the story
I'm telling myself is that, oh, that's
why I'm not more successful
until I'm talking about it.
And that thought is
challenged from outside.
Cause like left in my own head, I don't
always know exactly why I'm thinking
something or what's underneath it.
So I think it's great
to talk about this stuff.
Um, you know, I went out to a show last
(12:57):
night with some actors and, uh, I was
talking about some stuff that was
rattling around in my head.
Just, you know, some insecurities and
stuff that will, that don't reflect the
reality of what's going on.
But it's only when I say them out loud
and people go, that's
nonsense that you're
like, yeah, that is actually rubbish.
You know, you're dead, right?
(13:18):
That doesn't make any sense, but
unchallenged in my
head, it'll just bounce
around there and I'll
just sort of accept it.
I look at it.
This is the way I argue to a lot of
actors for someone who
says I'm not on social
media.
Uh, my talent will speak for itself and
they'll find me however they find me.
I don't go to a restaurant
if they're not on Google maps.
(13:40):
I don't go to a
restaurant if they're not on Yelp.
So this is how finicky I am.
If they're not on Yelp or blah, blah,
blah, I'm not making
the trek out to go see
them.
So this kind of like how I look at it was
like, I feel like
actors kind of just need
to exist online.
I know that this might,
that might be polarizing.
We don't have huge volumes, but we do, we
(14:01):
do water that we do nurture that whole
side of the business where, you know, we
kind of got to be on it.
We got to let people
know what we're up to.
It is an interesting
conversation because you hear it a lot.
And I've heard this from a few people in
the industry that like the first place
that they will go looking, you know, that
maybe production or whatever will go
looking to find out more
(14:22):
about you will not be your IMDB.
It will be your Instagram tech, you know,
usually, because that's the most
accessible form of social media to see
who you are as a
person or how you present
yourself to the world and
can they work with this person?
So I think, yeah, it's one, that's where
people go to find out about you to, you
(14:45):
know, people who aren't on a fair plate,
you know what I mean?
I wouldn't, I think, I think if I, if I
think if I wasn't, honestly, if I think
if we weren't doing this podcast, I would
be taking longer breaks from Instagram
because of how addictive it is for me.
Oh, I don't blame you, man.
I mean, if we weren't actors, if we
weren't actors, I
wouldn't be on social media.
(15:06):
No. And I've heard as well, people say,
you know, if you want to, if you want to
post personal stuff, political stuff or
whatever, have a separate private
Instagram to do that. That's just for
your friends. I've heard that.
Yeah, that's exactly what we needed.
Another account to handle.
I couldn't, you know, we won't dive into
the granular of social media this
(15:28):
episode, but I will admit people are
suggesting people go to Instagram over
IMDB just having your acting reel, the
first thing on your page pinned up to the
top. I do not do that. There are a lot of
things that make all the sense in the
world and all the good practice. And yet
I don't do that. I'd rather pan a video
of me celebrating my butt off at the
(15:50):
Eagles parade. That's
just me. But my point
is, you know, but like you're quite good.
I would consider you quite good at social
media because you make videos and you put
them out there. So like, I think you use
social media more effectively than I do.
But the other thing is it's a weird
hybrid of personal and professional. So
of course you want to
put stuff, you know,
it's and I may be putting your reel up
(16:12):
pinned as a good
idea, but I don't I don't
want to. I know exactly. I'm the same
way. I'm the same
way. So maybe there is an
argument there for a personal page and a
professional page. I don't know. So the
point that I was getting to about these
analytics and we actually I should
probably bring some people on because I
(16:33):
have a lot of independent filmmakers who
have done this. The old school way of
getting an independent film produced is
you sell foreign sales rights. So this is
a strategy that a lot of people did. You
know, I don't even know if it's still
going on. I think it
still is, but it's just
a different ballgame with streaming. But
you have an independent film and you
(16:53):
talk to foreign sales agents who
represent Germany, Spain, France, all the
countries, you know, Asia, etc, etc.
You're selling these film rights saying,
hey, when your film is made, we have the
right to distribute in our country and
we pay we're pre paying you money. How do
(17:15):
they value how much these rights cost?
They use it by the cast. So they have a
list and pages of actors saying this
person's worth this much. If you can get
this person in your film, it's worth this
much and so on and so forth. So this is
before the point is made. Yeah. So this
is this is a strategy to make films. So
(17:38):
if you're going to say, well, that feels
really dirty and gross. Well, talk to all
the independent filmmakers who got their
films made during that way. Because to be
honest, there wasn't
any other better way.
There's no easy way to do it, really. But
my point is, is isn't that a very similar
parallel where, hey, this is the
collective Instagram
followers and this is the
(17:59):
collective power of your ensemble. And
this is how much
we're willing to give you
for your for your film rights. I'm just
saying that's something that's been in
the industry for I mean, at this point,
probably 40, 50 years. Oh, yeah. I like I
don't think it sounds dirty. I understand
it. But it's a gamble. You know what I
mean? It doesn't guarantee anything like
(18:20):
just because you have big names in a
movie. So I don't know if it's a very
reliable metric. Similarly, I don't know
that Instagram following is a very
reliable metric. I
understand I to that to
that point, you know, you got to keep in
mind that, you know, these movies tend to
be horror films, maybe a little B level
movies, B movies. So when it comes
(18:41):
back in it, exactly. So back in the day,
it's like, hey, we got an independent
film. If it blows up in America, great.
But we might be able to make our money
back and take less of a hit. We sold a
bunch of DVDs in Asia. Yeah, I was just
saying, like, I don't know how reliable a
metric it is of sales. It's I don't blame
studios for doing that. I get it. Like I
(19:02):
understand the theory behind it. I just
don't know if it's reliable. It's a pity
as well, because it's sort of I think it
probably is a bit of a barrier to how to
how am I gonna say it might be a barrier
to getting the best cast possible for
that particular movie, because if you're
(19:23):
sort of if you're limiting yourself by
Instagram followers, they're possibly
doing the movie a disservice by, you
know, excluding people based on following
or lack of following. So oh, this is the
one thing I want to add. You know, it's
also we got to acknowledge that, you
know, maybe it was accelerated during the
pandemic. This is also in the
(19:44):
conversation of TikTok being banned,
unbanned and so on and so forth.
Everything is data.
There it's worth everything.
It's ad sales. That's how Google makes
most of its money on ad sales on Internet
search and so on and so forth. So
everything is data. That's what companies
care about. That's what they're going to
pay for. As far as the power of
(20:07):
influencers, I feel like that's just
going to grow. The power
of influence, the power
of social media, I don't think it's going
down. I think it's going to grow. So
whatever this might be, this might be a
different situation than say 10 years ago
when they gave a show to someone who is
big on YouTube. It doesn't have to be an
(20:29):
influencer. It could be a really talented
person who has a huge Instagram
following like Kevin Hart, like The Rock,
Ryan Reynolds, you know what I mean? So
it goes both ways where, hey, they just
became more valuable because they're
huge on social media. So as far as, oh,
so this new trend of influence in social
media, I think studios are starting to
(20:50):
invest a lot more into people who have
influence. The Mr. Beast apparently was
successful with his Beast games on
Amazon. He did a, you know, it's
essentially like a
survivor squid game type
competition game. Apparently people,
apparently people survived and apparently
(21:11):
it succeeded. And then also HBO is doing
a reality show, a docu-series with the
Paul brothers, Logan Paul, Jake Paul. I
know HBO Max is investing that that's
about to come out and we'll see how the
analytics work out. But I feel like the
(21:31):
past three, four, five years is unlike,
unlike anything we've ever seen. Few
things makes me feel older than hearing
about YouTube stars that I know nothing
about. I have heard the name Mr. Beast so
many times and every time I hear to go,
who's that again? And I go and I make a
(21:51):
mental note to look up Mr. Beast and it
instantly goes out of my head because I
don't care at all. Like I don't even care
a little. I just don't dabble in that
kind of world at all. Like it's not, it's
not, uh, Oh yeah. I'm not here to argue
one way or the other, but also you, you
haven't really seen any of it. No. Right.
So you know what I
(22:11):
mean? It's like, I, I'm
a little split down the middle because
when I got onto YouTube and I started
embracing and making stuff on it, I kind
of needed to learn what the world was.
The, the YouTube game, and this is
perfect for another
podcast, but the YouTube game
was all about a marathon. It was never
about short term. It was never about
instant fame. They have a top type of
(22:32):
hours regardless of who they are and what
their shtick is, the type of hours that
they put in and the disciplining and
consistency. Actors don't understand the
type of hours that they put in. It's
bonkers. So at the very least you learn
the long-term discipline. They know how
(22:55):
to brand, they branded themselves. And
next thing you know, Amazon gives them a
bajillion dollars to a goof off and have
a competition game show. Teach their own.
There's a, there's a million things for
everyone. And one
thing I will say, uh, on
that note, the, the beauty and the curse
of the internet is everything is diverse
and spread out. Meaning everyone is quote
(23:16):
unquote, like, you know, locally famous.
You have huge, huge stars across the
world and on the
internet and you couldn't
even pick out their face. And that just,
that just shows it's a perfect telling
thing where if I, if you follow someone
on Instagram with
150,000 followers, I bet
(23:36):
you I don't even know who they are. And
so my point is, is
like we would dream of,
oh, this is what fame is. I have 150,000
followers and you look around and
chances are no one knows who they are.
This is, if you're chasing after fame,
that's really relative. And I don't even
know what that is. And so that's kind of
like where fame is ambiguous in this day
(23:59):
and age. And I feel like we have to, you
know, ground ourselves in something else.
I'm just looking them up here in real
time. I'm now I know, now I know what Mr.
Beast looks like. I know what Mr. Beast
looks like and he does not look like what
I thought he would look like by the name
Mr. Beast. He does not look like a beast.
That's my initial
impression. Not a beast.
You thought he was actually like a
Sasquatch snow,
(24:20):
snowman. He's 26 years old.
Yeah. He's a youngin. He's a youngin and
he has 363 million
subscribers on his main
channel. And then he has another channel
and another channel and another channel.
And don't forget about, he has a food
snack line and also a
power drink line. So
going back, bridging back to this home,
my thing is like, you
know, we feel lesser
(24:40):
than because we look at each other's, you
know, following. We
feel even more reason.
Hey, producers are looking at us, judging
our numbers. We feel judged. And I think
that that might be the root of, and I
feel the same way.
Just like any other human
being on social media. It's like, this
is, this is the game
that we're in yet going
back to, you just got to keep doing the
(25:02):
work. That's it.
Yeah. Control what you can
control. And in the words of Denzel
Washington, the best marketing is being
really good. Obviously, you know, there's
probably many people who said that, but
it's cooler when Denzel says it. Yeah.
Yeah. I think he said
the best branding, the
best branding is being really good. Yep.
Anyway, I just saw this now. Ethan Hawke
(25:24):
had comments about it, which makes it
even better. Ethan
Hawke at the Berlin Film
Festival was asked about his remark, his
daughter's remarks. Ethan Hawke said,
he's encountered this phenomenon as well.
And it's crazy. I feel, I really feel for
these people. It's really hard. Sometimes
(25:44):
I'll be sending a movie up and someone
will say, Oh, you should cast Susie. I'm
like, who is she? She has 10 million
followers. I'm like, okay, cool. Has she
acted before? No, but, and you're like,
wow. So this is going to help me get the
movie made. This is crazy. Hawke goes. So
(26:04):
if I don't have this public facing
platform, I don't have
a career and I've, if
I get more followers, I might get that
part. What? Uh,
either Hawke went on to say
he meets so many young actors that think
being an actor is
protein shakes and going
to the gym. I saw that. Yeah. Oh my God.
(26:25):
This makes it all so much better. I wish
they could meet Phil Hoffman. Like I did
when I was 18 because there's a much more
substantive and enjoyable life. I mean,
go to the gym if you
want to, but that doesn't
make you Robert De Niro is not great
because he has a six pack.
If the park calls for it,
he'll do it. And that's awesome. But he's
so much more than
that. Now this is, this is
a great story because it's Ethan Hawke,
(26:45):
but going back to what
we were saying, there's
so many different ways and aspects. You
can dice up the story.
And so I just say, you
know, for ourselves, it's like, we take
it, we move on. It
doesn't really change that
much. Do you work and keep going and just
know that this is part of the game? Yeah,
totally. I'll be honest. The job that I
booked is not from my
(27:06):
Instagram. Same. The two jobs
I've been doing here, I guarantee you no
amount of Instagram
posts or stories would
have gone through those jobs. Yeah,
exactly. Anyway, so
moving on, how much money goes
into an Oscar campaign? I think we'll,
(27:27):
we'll start with Brady
Corbett story first, actually.
Let's start with the guess. I'm going to
guess. Oh, okay. How
much? Do you have a figure?
There's not one figure. It's a range, but
yeah, you can, you can
guess. So let's, let's,
let's go ahead. Guess how much Oscar
campaign is worth. So
(27:48):
it's, so it's a hundred million
dollar movie. So it's not even a $200
million blockbuster. So
it's like a, say it's even
like a 60 or an $80 million movie. I
would say they put in 5
million into Oscar campaigns.
That seems like a lot. I don't know. Oh
wow. Even that's really
on the low range. A few
(28:09):
million dollars for a smaller film and 20
to 30 for major studio
contenders. What? And
to be honest, that's probably old. That's
probably old news. Is it
worth that much? So we're
going to get into that. Just give me a
straight answer. He
can't. This is 2019. So this is
going off of 2019. They, they paid 20 or
(28:31):
$30 million in 2019. So
let that's actually a good,
good place to start. And put in
perspective, Brady Corbett,
according to him made $0 on
the brutalist. I don't, I'm not, I'm not
their account. I don't
know how all the ins and outs
work of that, but it does not shock me.
They shot in Hungary. They
shot massive tax credits.
(28:52):
Everyone's flying to Europe and going to
Europe to shoot these,
these movies. But if you, and I
did watch the movie, so I have a little
context. I mean, it's epic. Great
performances. What you,
it's what worthy of this. It's also three
and a half hours long, but
it's an epic movie. And you
know, you want to guess that most of the
money that they put into
the movie is on the screen.
(29:13):
And apparently Brady Corbett made $0. He
says that he didn't make
money until he directed three
ads or commercials in Portugal. That's
the first time he made any money in
years. And so this is
the thing. It's like, you know, people
can, you know, we're the
face of, you know, actors are,
(29:33):
are in commercials and people can easily
judge commercials, but
you're like, Hey, we got to pay
these bills. And sometimes being, you
know, in a Netflix show, isn't going to
pay those bills like
it is for a, you know, target commercial.
That's the irony of it,
isn't it? Like the work that,
the work that you love and the work that
you want to do often doesn't
pay as well as the work that
like, uh, right. Like, we're like
(29:54):
commercials that people don't set out to,
I don't think people get
into acting to be in commercials as a,
you know, as a, as a goal, but it's
amazing how like they can
pay for your whole year. Also you can
work with Oscar nominated directors in a
commercial, you know,
like even I did, I did a commercial in
Mexico city, um, a few years ago and the
(30:16):
director was, uh, Dave
Myers, who's two directs, like has
dropped every music video, like every
major star you can think of.
He's directed their music videos. Oh,
he's huge. I mean, he's been, he's been
crushing commercials for years.
Uh, let's see off the top of my head.
That actually reminded me. I, I did a
Facebook commercial back when
(30:36):
they were called Facebook. Um, it was
actually in the, the start of the
pandemic. It was very under wraps
because people were just getting used to
zoom. Um, it was a Facebook commercial
directed by Michelle Gondry.
Wow. Wow. Talk about that's out of left
field. That's out of left field. And
then, you know, it's, it's like,
you know, all this, it's like, I, a lot
(30:57):
of, I, I, a lot of my, my earnings is
from commercials. So I'm not,
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna poopoo not
one, one bit. I commercials are high on
my priority list. Oh, you
push it through the commercial world. I
don't know. Really lucky. Many people
who, who make as much as you do from
commercials, who work as much as you do
in commercials. That's a, you have a
(31:18):
particularly amazing track record of
commercials. This, this is fit for
another podcast. I honestly don't know if I'm good or I'm really lucky.
And I'm not being humble. I, for some
reason, I'm very lucky because when I get
one, it runs. I am not,
I like, I'll be, I'll be
perfectly honest with you. It can be both
(31:39):
kind of surprised. I yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's true. That's true. You can't be
both. Um, I'm kind of surprised that I
don't book more commercials. I'm honest. I'm not the guy that books a
commercial year. And I know actors like
that. But if I book one, it's going to
run anyway. So I don't
want to, uh, dive into that.
(32:00):
No, because I was having this
conversation yesterday with, um, some of
the actors I went to the show with
afterwards and we're
talking about kind of people were talking
about sort of insecurities. It was like a
topic that came up just to, you know, the
insecure thoughts you have. And what are
the actors said? Uh, she goes, she goes, I'm always very confident in my work and I am too.
Like that's, I don't feel it's not, I
(32:21):
don't feel my insecurity or sorry,
insecure thoughts don't pop up in terms
of my work per se. You
know what I mean? Like I'm
confident in the work that I do and I'm
confident that jobs come my way. It's
other stuff that trips me
up. So when you say like I'm
lucky, I think that's also a mindset as
well, you know, which I think helps you. It's a very positive kind of a mindset. So you're saying that
lucky helps me mindset wise. I think
(32:46):
lucky is a mindset. Like I think that
that kind of feeds itself when you say
I'm very lucky. I think that's a very
positive kind of mindset that sort of
feeds itself. And like, I don't think
it's a coincidence that a lot of the commercials that you do go, you know, in the way that they do. That's a great point. That's a greatpoint. And, you know, it's also where we're talking, you know, we'll eventually do our super now. And I think that's a good point.
You know, that's also where we're
(33:06):
talking, you know, we'll eventually do
are supernatural meditation subconscious
episode later. But there's a lot to dig
into there that I don't even we're just skimming the surface here, but I completely agree. I like to have that mindset and it's worked for me. It's just something that I I've always felt. And whether it's rooted in anything real or not. I mean, we'll never know.
I'm just skimming the surface
here, but I completely agree.
I like to have that
mindset and it's worked for me.
It's just something that I've always felt
and whether it's rooted
in anything real or not,
(33:27):
I mean, we'll never know.
It doesn't matter though.
Like it doesn't really
matter because it's like the idea
that like I always had this
idea in the back of my head
that this career will work out for me.
You know, always, even when
I kind of had a lot of doubt
and a lot of self doubt,
always, it was always a voice
in the back of my head going,
it'll work, it'll work, it'll work.
So I always believed that.
And, you know, now that it
(33:48):
is working and, you know,
it looks at my career, it looks a lot
different than it did,
you know, 10 years ago,
five years ago, whatever.
That belief, I've
started to really see the value
of that belief.
I don't know where it came from either.
Cause, you know,
especially in the beginning
or there was periods of time
where the evidence didn't
(34:08):
support it, but I just felt,
no, it's okay, keep working.
And similarly, when
you hear actors who are,
who, and I'm not blaming
anybody for this or judging them,
but they talk about, oh,
it's so hard, it's so hard,
it's so hard.
But I think part of how
hard it is, is saying that,
because it just reinforces
it in your head all the time.
(34:29):
You know, that this is a
hard business, hard business,
it's a hard business.
The people I see that are most successful
are the people that kind of
have a kind of a confidence
that yeah, everything's
good and it's not hard.
Like it's easy.
Whether that's true or
not, it doesn't matter.
The attitude sort of serves them.
If that makes any
sense, which it may not.
I love that.
And I think, I totally believe that.
(34:49):
And I think that Leslie
also kind of preaches that.
She uses a metaphor that you're skiing,
you're skiing down a slope.
And the more times that you go down,
you're making grooves of
the path of your track.
Yeah, neuropaths.
The more that those,
exactly, those tracks
are just getting deeper, deeper, deeper.
(35:10):
And maybe they're a good track, maybe
they're a good path,
or maybe they're not,
maybe they're not helping you.
And I would like to say that,
for both of us in
this particular instance,
it happened to be a good track
that we always happen to believe.
And it's kind of ingrained after a while
and it's just there.
She also uses that as an analogy
(35:30):
for forging new neural
pathways in the way you work.
Because I will say with
all this mindset stuff,
you still have to put in the work.
You still have to train
and be as good as you can be.
And I, for myself, like
continually try to practice that
and reinforce it and get better.
But like, her thing about
the tracks in the snow is
it takes time to
forge new neural pathways.
(35:52):
So, you know, you've the old grooves
that you can fall back into very easily,
or you can forge new ones.
And the reason you
have to keep practicing
is it snows every night.
Because in order to make them deeper,
you have to keep working in that way.
So, like related to this,
if you want to adopt that mindset,
(36:12):
it might take a bit of work.
You know what I mean?
It might take a bit of,
but the benefits of it are
massive in my experience.
That's great.
So, let's get back to this.
So, we're talking about Oscar campaigns.
This is the stuff that
studios don't talk about.
In 2019, we're looking at 20 to $30
million for contenders.
(36:34):
Whether that's increased or not,
it just gives you a gauge.
There are strict rules as far as,
oh, okay, this is
actually what I want to start,
because you touched on this.
It absolutely does help the movie.
It absolutely does an Oscar campaign,
Oscar buzz, say a nomination.
(36:56):
Brady Corbett is not
unhappy to fly around the world
to promote this film.
Yeah, he got paid $0 for it.
He knows that it's crucial
for more people to see it.
It's crucial to obviously win it
if people, you know,
you're more likely to win it
if people actually see your movie.
If Demi Moore gives a viral
speech at the Golden Globes,
these little things are
(37:18):
all part of the influence of,
I want to go see this movie.
I got to see this movie.
So, there's no doubt
that it helps the movie.
It just kind of
interesting how the studios
have so much money to shell out.
Yeah, that is surprising,
especially when we hear
about guest stars being billed
(37:39):
as co-stars, and
yeah, when we're fighting
to get a fair wage, that
there's $20 to $30 million.
When they ask us to
do favors to save $200,
you start wondering.
Yeah, yeah, that's
where that money's going,
into the Oscar budget.
There are strict rules and regulations.
(38:01):
How big is your party?
What you can have at the party?
How many people you can invite at
screenings and invites?
Oh.
The whole words, or the
phrase, for your consideration,
is specifically because you can't say,
please vote for me.
Oh, wow, okay.
I know, I didn't know that.
I learned so much when I
was looking into this story.
(38:22):
So many rules,
regulations, and this is the tip
of the iceberg.
For you to be considered,
let's, oh, I do want to say,
the SAG Awards are this weekend.
We're recording before the SAG Awards,
but the SAG Awards are the award show
for all SAG members, obviously.
This is not the only award show,
(38:43):
but to submit for
consideration, you have to pay.
You have to pay an entry to submit.
For the SAG Awards?
Yep.
Oh, interesting.
For an individual,
it's hundreds of dollars.
For an entire film, it's thousands.
So this is, all these
academies and all these bodies
(39:03):
are accepting these fees
just for these award shows.
To email blast, hey,
for your consideration,
consider so-and-so to
nominate for the SAG Awards.
You have to pay thousands of dollars.
Really?
For an email blast.
The SAG Awards is not the only one.
In all of these guilds,
(39:23):
in all of these awards,
let's see, an email blast for
documentaries is $500 to $250.
It's $500.
A cost of a mailing
to its members is $500.
The academy fee, after
nominations are announced,
the academy, for each blast, it's $1,000.
(39:48):
So when you say blast,
like, what's the stop meaning
you sending out an email blast?
Will they just go,
hey, you can't do that?
Or is it just, do you
have to do it through them
or is there a--
That's a great point.
So the email blast is an official email
blasted from the academy.
So say, for example,
like, we're members of SAG,
so the entire membership
(40:08):
of SAG that has an email,
we'll get blasted and
say, hey, vote for so-and-so
for this role in The Brutalist.
And so when our emails
got flooded with screenings
and all that stuff,
every so often you will see
an email blast about a
film or a behind the scenes
or an interview, I had
no idea it cost that much.
And so there you go.
(40:30):
That's the money
behind an Oscar campaign.
20 to 30 million dollars, like.
Side little note about
when this all started.
The way that the story goes, it goes back
to Shakespeare in Love.
Shakespeare in Love.
Of all the people, the mastermind,
the Oscars mastermind, Harvey Weinstein,
(40:51):
Shakespeare in Love, so people remember,
that was the year that they beat
Saving Private Ryan for Best Picture.
There was a war going on
during the campaign season.
Harvey Weinstein was
going for it like he was
and they got Best Picture.
And I wanna say, since then,
(41:11):
they had to put regulations,
they had to put rules
on it, and now it became
this huge thing after all these years
of what the Oscars is.
And I'm not gonna lie, I
actually remember watching
Shakespeare in Love, I
actually really liked it.
It really, the pre-actor Econ,
it just struck something at me.
Anyway.
You're like, I wanna
be like Joseph Fiennes.
Exactly.
Speaking of Saving Private
(41:32):
Ryan, they actually filmed
the beach scene down in
Wexford here in Ireland,
storming the beach.
Oh, that famous scene.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Saving Private Ryan
was a heavy favorite, so.
Masterminded by notorious bastards.
Exactly.
That's Hollywood, huh?
You know, and the funny thing is,
I can see it making more sense in the 90s
(41:56):
when there was DVD
sales and there was much,
I imagine a much bigger profit on movies.
I feel like it's
bragging rights, it's prestige.
How much does it help Netflix bottom line
if Amelia Perez wins Oscars?
I suppose it's a draw for them.
If you go to a streaming service and
they'll do it on Mac,
(42:16):
so they'll do it on Apple TV or whatever,
Oscar winners, and
they'll have it as a category.
And it does, I don't
know, like just for myself,
I will look to them first.
So consciously rate
them higher in my head,
because I'm like, oh, they want Oscars.
It's important for box office
and it's important for diverse films.
It's important for
diverse actors and so on.
And they call it the Oscar bump.
(42:37):
You know, it's gonna get eyeballs.
You just talk about like,
you just walk around and say,
yeah, I want an Oscar.
I mean, come on, that's kinda awesome.
All right, well, I feel
like that's a good place
to pin it.
This was a great episode.
Thanks guys.
Oh, well, duh, what am I doing?
I forgot hidden gems.
Let's do hidden gems.
Yeah, you forgot hidden gems.
(42:58):
You can, you fucking idiot.
(laughing)
Hoping to get by without a hidden gem.
I was, but I had a lot
of think about it today
and I did come up with one
and I can't remember it now.
So at the end of every episode,
we put out a couple of hidden gems,
a little nugget from the week.
Oh, I remembered.
I'll start.
This is for anybody, this is for celiacs
(43:20):
because there are
people with a gluten allergy
in the Dublin area.
This is a very specific hidden gem
on the north side of Dublin.
But I went to a pub
called the White House,
which is in Baldoyle, near
Port Mernic, where I'm from.
And my mother has a severe gluten allergy
(43:42):
and one of the owners of
this pub turns out a celiac
and the head chef is celiacs,
so they have
unbelievable gluten-free options.
My mom had like a proper
burger bone on a sandwich
for the first time in about 10 years
and a gluten-free
dessert and was over the moon.
So if you have, yeah, if you're looking
for really good gluten-free options,
(44:02):
the White House in
Baldoyle is a fantastic pub.
Sounds great.
That sounds really good.
The beauty of being
here at my family's home,
they have some stuff
literally for 50 some years.
The ironing board is the ironing board
that my mom had in Kentucky
because an old roommate
left at their apartment.
They're older than I am.
For the people watching,
(44:23):
for the people listening
on YouTube, I'm showing a book here.
This is a national diary from 1969.
And it's so adorable
because when my dad didn't use it
and 10 years later, he
wrote 1979 over it, okay?
And for those that don't know,
my dad was and is a math professor.
Anyway, so the first page is this article
(44:48):
that he cut and pasted in
the first page of this journal.
It was an article interviewing
a Harvard University professor
who just won the
Nobel Prize in chemistry,
William N. Lipscomb.
Anyway, so they're interviewing him
about his prize-winning
research of boron and hydrogen
(45:09):
for all the people looking
for some saucy chemistry.
His one quote was so applicable
and I just thought it
was really, really fun.
When you found out that
you won the Nobel Prize,
what did you feel?
Did you feel like he at
least achieved recognition?
He goes, "No, I just said I was pleased.
(45:30):
Some reporters didn't
understand that at all."
You see, in scientific research,
you know what you have accomplished
and the people in your
field who read your papers know
recognition grows
right along with your work,
rather undramatically.
And that's the part I was reading.
Because I was like,
this idea that, you know,
are we chasing after a result?
Are we chasing after an award?
Are we chasing after booking jobs?
(45:51):
Are we chasing after
bragging to your friends?
Are you chasing after
Instagram followers?
The work is always going to be the work
and it's gonna be undramatic.
Is that because scientific achievements
are so precisely measurable?
Of course.
And I couldn't work in a
field which isn't measurable.
Besides, I doubt anyone can work
for a Nobel Prize in any field.
(46:14):
He doesn't think you can
work towards a Nobel Prize.
That would stop the flow of ideas.
All you can bring to your
task is a consuming interest
in your subject and
patience and hard work.
All you can bring to your
task is a consuming interest
in your subject and
patience and hard work.
You can't chase after a Nobel Prize and
that's my hidden gem.
(46:34):
Some words from it.
How hidden is that?
You were not expecting that.
Nothing boron about that, hidden gem.
I was just trying to think
of hydrogen and boron puns.
I hope you enjoyed this
episode and we'll see you next week.
See you next week, you bastards.
All right.
See you next week.
Ethan Hawke went on to say he meets so
many young actors that think being an
actor is protein
shakes and going to the gym.
I saw that quote.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh my God. This makes
it all so much better.
Hey guys, this is the Actors Guide to the
End of the World podcast where we talk
about acting in Hollywood
in a way people understand.
I'm E-Kan Soong and this is...
Rían Sheehy Kelly, how are you doing?
(00:21):
Follow us wherever you find your podcast
at Actors Guide podcast.
We're on YouTube, we're on Substack and
follow us on all social
media at Actors Guide podcast.
So on the episode today,
the lot to a lot to jump into.
We're going to start with Maya Hawke's
comments on Instagram and social media.
How Instagram is maybe unfortunately for
a lot of actors a necessary part of the
(00:43):
filmmaking business.
Also, Ethan Hawke had comments about it,
which were really funny.
We're going to talk about how much money
actually goes into an Oscar campaign.
All the money that we don't hear that
studios are pumping into these films.
More than you would think.
Then you hear stories like Brady Corbett,
the director of The
Brutalist, said he made no money.
(01:04):
Zero dollars making The Brutalist.
How is that possible?
Exactly. And this is why
you guys got to tune in.
This episode will blow your mind. I'm
just saying it right here.
What a massive claim.
This will blow your mind.
What a massive claim out the gate.
Also, E-Can has some great news, which
we're not allowed to talk
about, but we're just very.
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
(01:25):
Yep, very exciting news.
We're gonna get into
all that this episode.
It's gonna blow your
mind, sit back and enjoy.
Enjoy your last moments of having a mind.
And now, a word from our sponsor.
Meet Life Double.
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(01:46):
and no one will be any the wiser.
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It's time for your yearly physical?
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(02:06):
conditions or horrified stares.
What's up buddy?
Let me tell you what's up.
I'll tell you what's up.
The sun came out today for
the first time in 11 days.
There has been zero hours
of sunlight for 11 days.
Wow.
And it has been rough.
I nearly cried when
the sun came out today.
It was just...
There might have been an hour of...
(02:27):
There might have been a little bit of
daylight the other day,
but more or less for the last 11 days
we've had zero sunlight.
You know the way in West LA they have
like June gloom and then May gray
and then no sky July.
It was kind of like that
where it was just no sunshine.
But over there it's just called Ireland.
It's just called February.
Yeah.
(02:48):
You really
underestimate how that impacts you.
Everything just felt
very bleak and miserable.
I was like, this is
how we're going to end.
But it's sunny today
and I went for a walk.
All right. So a lot to get into today.
We have a lot...
And before we do, can I just say a
massive congratulations to Egan
(03:10):
who will be working
for the month of March.
I'm thrilled.
We will both be working for
the month of March actually.
On two different projects.
So...
Yeah.
Your boys are going to get
a little work in this month.
So we'll have more details
later on, but it's very exciting.
It's just going to be
great to be back on set.
So I'm pretty thrilled.
(03:30):
But yeah, can't wait to
tell you guys all about it.
So jumping into word
around town, Maya Hawk,
if you do not know of the story,
she was being
interviewed on Happy Sad Confused.
I believe that's the name of the podcast.
And it was pretty eye opening.
The 20 or 30 seconds
that were being circulated,
she was basically saying the conundrum of
(03:51):
being obviously a working actor
and now a known celebrity and also doing
a lot of great films and TV shows.
She's basically saying the conundrum is
she has to be on Instagram
or at least she feels like
she has to be on Instagram.
She was considering
deleting her Instagram.
Yet film producers are saying to her,
(04:12):
you understand that if you have an
Instagram and a
certain amount of followers,
I can most likely get a film financed.
Also, if you don't have an Instagram,
we need a collective amount of followers
from your surrounding cast.
And so this is the analytics.
(04:33):
This is the math of financing and
producing a film in this day and age.
If it's true, and I mean, I have no
reason not to believe what she's saying.
This is the finance and this is the
analytics of creating
a film around someone.
That means that if the lead does not have
a huge Instagram or
social media following,
that means that their ensemble is mostly
(04:55):
going to be a lot of people that do.
Right. So they have to make up the
numbers and that limits
their casting choices.
I do want to make sure it's clear.
Maya Hawk revealed that she knows several
smart directors who
have been told by producers
that they must cast actors with a certain
amount of Instagram followers.
So just to put a little context, it's
like on that level, we're talking,
(05:15):
we're not talking about,
you know, low level directors.
We're talking about the
top and top of the industry.
And this is what the trend is.
Like, well, two things.
One, has it been proven that Instagram
followers translates into box offices?
I mean, is that, I don't know, but like,
(05:35):
is that a proven metric?
You know, if we have a collective
following of 12 million people,
it will equal this
many dollars for a movie.
Is that proven or is that just a, is that
just something that they like believe?
I don't know.
No, I think that's exactly
where my mind went as well.
So we can start right there.
(05:57):
Part of the reason why I feel like, you know, very, you know,
and Ria and I were discussing this a lot
over the past couple of weeks,
when we were discussing the whole four
seconds casting director controversy,
that kind of made its
waves through the Hollywood.
And I was really happy to talk about it
because I saw so many sides of it when
actors and other people were chiming in
(06:17):
on social media and so on and,
and seeing all sides of it.
And this one, I had an
immediate gut reaction as well.
But when you see other people chime in about it, you see,
Oh, this is why they're angry.
This is why they're scared.
And a lot of actors like
you're forcing us to do Instagram.
You're I can't believe you, you can
reduce us to a number
and all these things
(06:37):
that can take power away from an actor.
The way I look at this, I
asked the same exact thing.
You're telling me that Hollywood studios
are trying to use any analytics to make
their business more profitable.
That does not sound like a shock and thatdoes not sound like a shock.
That does not sound like a shock and does
that does not sound like a bad idea.
(06:58):
I will. I will repeat, though.
I have always thought that Hollywood
studios don't know what they're doing
and they don't know now after two strikes
and after a pandemic and after so on
and so forth.
They're trying to figure it out.
Some companies are thriving.
Some companies are stagnant.
But when it comes down to it, these
(07:19):
analytics are the only things that they
have to try to make a profitable,
profitable business.
So I think it's one way for them to try
to have an idea because I agree.
I do not know how many people will tune
into a show because of their huge
following on Instagram.
That being said, someone with a huge
(07:40):
following on Instagram is also kind of
doing free advertising for them.
So that's a plus.
And then on top of it, let's talk about
let's talk about box office bombs.
There's no certainty
for a film to do well.
Off the top of my head, we have, you
know, the fall guy this year was a major
(08:01):
disappointment.
You have Ryan Gosling, you have Emily
Blunt, you have Ryan
Gosling at the height
of his popularity.
And in all honesty, I wish I saw it and I
probably will because I like Ryan
Gosling.
And to be honest, I thought the movie,
for the most part, I thought it looked
really fun.
It checks all the boxes.
And yet that was a major disappointment.
We also have, obviously,
(08:21):
Joker 2 for various reasons.
There are so many films that they're so
optimistic about yet the numbers and
the box office, that was the response.
So what I'm getting into is they need as
much analytics as they can.
And this is just one piece
(08:41):
that may or may not work.
But at least it's
something instead of flying blind.
Yeah.
And I, you know, I understand.
I understand people getting scared of
that idea because it, you know, it seems.
I don't know.
I guess it seems unfair.
But also, so I, years ago, like quite a
few years ago, an actor I know is doing
(09:04):
a movie and one of the execs from the
studio told him that they cast a couple
of people based on
their Instagram following.
So I knew this.
I knew this was a
practice for a few years.
The other thing is after said that, one
of the execs, one of the executives.
But also like I have friends who now have
(09:25):
large Instagram followings, but it's
because of their work that they now have
large Instagram followings.
They didn't start that way
and they just kept getting work.
So to be honest, I, you know, it doesn't,
it doesn't particularly change my
opinion one way or the other.
It's not a surprise really that that's,
that that's a practice and that's a
consideration for studios.
I don't think it's a deal breaker.
(09:47):
You know, I don't feel like it's, it's
going to prevent me from getting work or
not. I'm not, you know what I mean?
My Instagram
following is, is, is not big.
So like, it doesn't really
matter one way or the other.
It's not the difference
between 10,000 and 2 million.
And it doesn't change.
It doesn't change our job.
You know what I mean?
You still have to do it.
It's like the forest, like you said, it's
like the four seconds cast director.
(10:08):
It doesn't change our job.
The other thing about that is, you know,
I suppose it's about advantages in
this industry.
My Hawk came in with advantages, you
know, being, being the daughter of
Ethan Hawke and she, so she already had a
leg up in this industry, which other
people have spoken, you know, spoken
(10:30):
about the whole idea of Nepo babies and
whatever.
And again, it's not something I weighed
into it because it's kind of irrelevant.
You know what I mean?
That's good for her.
Like that's, that's very fortunate for
her and she's capitalized and she's a
very good actor, but people will look to
things as, as a, like as a marker of how
unfair this business can be.
(10:52):
And it's, yeah, it's not fair.
You know what I mean?
Like, I think that's a great point.
That's a great point.
Go ahead.
Yeah, it's just, it's not a
fair business and we know that.
And, uh, I still choose to do it.
So I, you know, I have to accept a
certain amount of
that and go, yeah, okay,
that's just how it is.
You know, I completely agree.
(11:12):
Um, you know, the, the, the power of the
story, first of all, it was, it was nice
when people are openly talking about
what's behind closed doors and, and, and
these meetings, because, you know, for
something that specific, it was news to
me to have it put that bluntly.
But I completely agree when you're an
actor and you freak out or, uh, um, you
know, you're angered or you're saddened.
(11:34):
Are we using this as a story to tell us
and make us feel better?
This is why we're not more successful.
That's a very good point.
It's like you and me kind of like
bouncing each other off where I like to
think that our conversations are actually
lifting each other up.
And maybe some people who are listening
and you could easily take this clip,
this, this, this clip and say, this is
(11:56):
why it's so hard being an actor.
This is why I shouldn't do it.
This is why I don't work.
This is why all the things just
fulfilling that
prophecy of why it's a sad,
hard life, which it's, it's, it is a hard
life, but it doesn't need to be sad and
disempowering.
So that's the shift that I'm making where
(12:16):
this is information.
We're not in control that we don't have
Maya Hawks jeans and who her, our, our
parents are so already right off the bat.
Like you said, it's like, Hey, this was
never really a fair fight.
Yeah, right.
But I agree with you on the conversations
and like, cause sometimes I don't even
know that that story is, is
what's behind the thought.
You know what I mean?
(12:36):
Like that's the, that's the, the story
I'm telling myself is that, oh, that's
why I'm not more successful
until I'm talking about it.
And that thought is
challenged from outside.
Cause like left in my own head, I don't
always know exactly why I'm thinking
something or what's underneath it.
So I think it's great
to talk about this stuff.
Um, you know, I went out to a show last
(12:57):
night with some actors and, uh, I was
talking about some stuff that was
rattling around in my head.
Just, you know, some insecurities and
stuff that will, that don't reflect the
reality of what's going on.
But it's only when I say them out loud
and people go, that's
nonsense that you're
like, yeah, that is actually rubbish.
You know, you're dead, right?
(13:18):
That doesn't make any sense, but
unchallenged in my
head, it'll just bounce
around there and I'll
just sort of accept it.
I look at it.
This is the way I argue to a lot of
actors for someone who
says I'm not on social
media.
Uh, my talent will speak for itself and
they'll find me however they find me.
I don't go to a restaurant
if they're not on Google maps.
(13:40):
I don't go to a
restaurant if they're not on Yelp.
So this is how finicky I am.
If they're not on Yelp or blah, blah,
blah, I'm not making
the trek out to go see
them.
So this kind of like how I look at it was
like, I feel like
actors kind of just need
to exist online.
I know that this might,
that might be polarizing.
We don't have huge volumes, but we do, we
(14:01):
do water that we do nurture that whole
side of the business where, you know, we
kind of got to be on it.
We got to let people
know what we're up to.
It is an interesting
conversation because you hear it a lot.
And I've heard this from a few people in
the industry that like the first place
that they will go looking, you know, that
maybe production or whatever will go
looking to find out more
(14:22):
about you will not be your IMDB.
It will be your Instagram tech, you know,
usually, because that's the most
accessible form of social media to see
who you are as a
person or how you present
yourself to the world and
can they work with this person?
So I think, yeah, it's one, that's where
people go to find out about you to, you
(14:45):
know, people who aren't on a fair plate,
you know what I mean?
I wouldn't, I think, I think if I, if I
think if I wasn't, honestly, if I think
if we weren't doing this podcast, I would
be taking longer breaks from Instagram
because of how addictive it is for me.
Oh, I don't blame you, man.
I mean, if we weren't actors, if we
weren't actors, I
wouldn't be on social media.
(15:06):
No. And I've heard as well, people say,
you know, if you want to, if you want to
post personal stuff, political stuff or
whatever, have a separate private
Instagram to do that. That's just for
your friends. I've heard that.
Yeah, that's exactly what we needed.
Another account to handle.
I couldn't, you know, we won't dive into
the granular of social media this
(15:28):
episode, but I will admit people are
suggesting people go to Instagram over
IMDB just having your acting reel, the
first thing on your page pinned up to the
top. I do not do that. There are a lot of
things that make all the sense in the
world and all the good practice. And yet
I don't do that. I'd rather pan a video
of me celebrating my butt off at the
(15:50):
Eagles parade. That's
just me. But my point
is, you know, but like you're quite good.
I would consider you quite good at social
media because you make videos and you put
them out there. So like, I think you use
social media more effectively than I do.
But the other thing is it's a weird
hybrid of personal and professional. So
of course you want to
put stuff, you know,
it's and I may be putting your reel up
(16:12):
pinned as a good
idea, but I don't I don't
want to. I know exactly. I'm the same
way. I'm the same
way. So maybe there is an
argument there for a personal page and a
professional page. I don't know. So the
point that I was getting to about these
analytics and we actually I should
probably bring some people on because I
(16:33):
have a lot of independent filmmakers who
have done this. The old school way of
getting an independent film produced is
you sell foreign sales rights. So this is
a strategy that a lot of people did. You
know, I don't even know if it's still
going on. I think it
still is, but it's just
a different ballgame with streaming. But
you have an independent film and you
(16:53):
talk to foreign sales agents who
represent Germany, Spain, France, all the
countries, you know, Asia, etc, etc.
You're selling these film rights saying,
hey, when your film is made, we have the
right to distribute in our country and
we pay we're pre paying you money. How do
(17:15):
they value how much these rights cost?
They use it by the cast. So they have a
list and pages of actors saying this
person's worth this much. If you can get
this person in your film, it's worth this
much and so on and so forth. So this is
before the point is made. Yeah. So this
is this is a strategy to make films. So
(17:38):
if you're going to say, well, that feels
really dirty and gross. Well, talk to all
the independent filmmakers who got their
films made during that way. Because to be
honest, there wasn't
any other better way.
There's no easy way to do it, really. But
my point is, is isn't that a very similar
parallel where, hey, this is the
collective Instagram
followers and this is the
(17:59):
collective power of your ensemble. And
this is how much
we're willing to give you
for your for your film rights. I'm just
saying that's something that's been in
the industry for I mean, at this point,
probably 40, 50 years. Oh, yeah. I like I
don't think it sounds dirty. I understand
it. But it's a gamble. You know what I
mean? It doesn't guarantee anything like
(18:20):
just because you have big names in a
movie. So I don't know if it's a very
reliable metric. Similarly, I don't know
that Instagram following is a very
reliable metric. I
understand I to that to
that point, you know, you got to keep in
mind that, you know, these movies tend to
be horror films, maybe a little B level
movies, B movies. So when it comes
(18:41):
back in it, exactly. So back in the day,
it's like, hey, we got an independent
film. If it blows up in America, great.
But we might be able to make our money
back and take less of a hit. We sold a
bunch of DVDs in Asia. Yeah, I was just
saying, like, I don't know how reliable a
metric it is of sales. It's I don't blame
studios for doing that. I get it. Like I
(19:02):
understand the theory behind it. I just
don't know if it's reliable. It's a pity
as well, because it's sort of I think it
probably is a bit of a barrier to how to
how am I gonna say it might be a barrier
to getting the best cast possible for
that particular movie, because if you're
(19:23):
sort of if you're limiting yourself by
Instagram followers, they're possibly
doing the movie a disservice by, you
know, excluding people based on following
or lack of following. So oh, this is the
one thing I want to add. You know, it's
also we got to acknowledge that, you
know, maybe it was accelerated during the
pandemic. This is also in the
(19:44):
conversation of TikTok being banned,
unbanned and so on and so forth.
Everything is data.
There it's worth everything.
It's ad sales. That's how Google makes
most of its money on ad sales on Internet
search and so on and so forth. So
everything is data. That's what companies
care about. That's what they're going to
pay for. As far as the power of
(20:07):
influencers, I feel like that's just
going to grow. The power
of influence, the power
of social media, I don't think it's going
down. I think it's going to grow. So
whatever this might be, this might be a
different situation than say 10 years ago
when they gave a show to someone who is
big on YouTube. It doesn't have to be an
(20:29):
influencer. It could be a really talented
person who has a huge Instagram
following like Kevin Hart, like The Rock,
Ryan Reynolds, you know what I mean? So
it goes both ways where, hey, they just
became more valuable because they're
huge on social media. So as far as, oh,
so this new trend of influence in social
media, I think studios are starting to
(20:50):
invest a lot more into people who have
influence. The Mr. Beast apparently was
successful with his Beast games on
Amazon. He did a, you know, it's
essentially like a
survivor squid game type
competition game. Apparently people,
apparently people survived and apparently
(21:11):
it succeeded. And then also HBO is doing
a reality show, a docu-series with the
Paul brothers, Logan Paul, Jake Paul. I
know HBO Max is investing that that's
about to come out and we'll see how the
analytics work out. But I feel like the
(21:31):
past three, four, five years is unlike,
unlike anything we've ever seen. Few
things makes me feel older than hearing
about YouTube stars that I know nothing
about. I have heard the name Mr. Beast so
many times and every time I hear to go,
who's that again? And I go and I make a
(21:51):
mental note to look up Mr. Beast and it
instantly goes out of my head because I
don't care at all. Like I don't even care
a little. I just don't dabble in that
kind of world at all. Like it's not, it's
not, uh, Oh yeah. I'm not here to argue
one way or the other, but also you, you
haven't really seen any of it. No. Right.
So you know what I
(22:11):
mean? It's like, I, I'm
a little split down the middle because
when I got onto YouTube and I started
embracing and making stuff on it, I kind
of needed to learn what the world was.
The, the YouTube game, and this is
perfect for another
podcast, but the YouTube game
was all about a marathon. It was never
about short term. It was never about
instant fame. They have a top type of
(22:32):
hours regardless of who they are and what
their shtick is, the type of hours that
they put in and the disciplining and
consistency. Actors don't understand the
type of hours that they put in. It's
bonkers. So at the very least you learn
the long-term discipline. They know how
(22:55):
to brand, they branded themselves. And
next thing you know, Amazon gives them a
bajillion dollars to a goof off and have
a competition game show. Teach their own.
There's a, there's a million things for
everyone. And one
thing I will say, uh, on
that note, the, the beauty and the curse
of the internet is everything is diverse
and spread out. Meaning everyone is quote
(23:16):
unquote, like, you know, locally famous.
You have huge, huge stars across the
world and on the
internet and you couldn't
even pick out their face. And that just,
that just shows it's a perfect telling
thing where if I, if you follow someone
on Instagram with
150,000 followers, I bet
(23:36):
you I don't even know who they are. And
so my point is, is
like we would dream of,
oh, this is what fame is. I have 150,000
followers and you look around and
chances are no one knows who they are.
This is, if you're chasing after fame,
that's really relative. And I don't even
know what that is. And so that's kind of
like where fame is ambiguous in this day
(23:59):
and age. And I feel like we have to, you
know, ground ourselves in something else.
I'm just looking them up here in real
time. I'm now I know, now I know what Mr.
Beast looks like. I know what Mr. Beast
looks like and he does not look like what
I thought he would look like by the name
Mr. Beast. He does not look like a beast.
That's my initial
impression. Not a beast.
You thought he was actually like a
Sasquatch snow,
(24:20):
snowman. He's 26 years old.
Yeah. He's a youngin. He's a youngin and
he has 363 million
subscribers on his main
channel. And then he has another channel
and another channel and another channel.
And don't forget about, he has a food
snack line and also a
power drink line. So
going back, bridging back to this home,
my thing is like, you
know, we feel lesser
(24:40):
than because we look at each other's, you
know, following. We
feel even more reason.
Hey, producers are looking at us, judging
our numbers. We feel judged. And I think
that that might be the root of, and I
feel the same way.
Just like any other human
being on social media. It's like, this
is, this is the game
that we're in yet going
back to, you just got to keep doing the
(25:02):
work. That's it.
Yeah. Control what you can
control. And in the words of Denzel
Washington, the best marketing is being
really good. Obviously, you know, there's
probably many people who said that, but
it's cooler when Denzel says it. Yeah.
Yeah. I think he said
the best branding, the
best branding is being really good. Yep.
Anyway, I just saw this now. Ethan Hawke
(25:24):
had comments about it, which makes it
even better. Ethan
Hawke at the Berlin Film
Festival was asked about his remark, his
daughter's remarks. Ethan Hawke said,
he's encountered this phenomenon as well.
And it's crazy. I feel, I really feel for
these people. It's really hard. Sometimes
(25:44):
I'll be sending a movie up and someone
will say, Oh, you should cast Susie. I'm
like, who is she? She has 10 million
followers. I'm like, okay, cool. Has she
acted before? No, but, and you're like,
wow. So this is going to help me get the
movie made. This is crazy. Hawke goes. So
(26:04):
if I don't have this public facing
platform, I don't have
a career and I've, if
I get more followers, I might get that
part. What? Uh,
either Hawke went on to say
he meets so many young actors that think
being an actor is
protein shakes and going
to the gym. I saw that. Yeah. Oh my God.
(26:25):
This makes it all so much better. I wish
they could meet Phil Hoffman. Like I did
when I was 18 because there's a much more
substantive and enjoyable life. I mean,
go to the gym if you
want to, but that doesn't
make you Robert De Niro is not great
because he has a six pack.
If the park calls for it,
he'll do it. And that's awesome. But he's
so much more than
that. Now this is, this is
a great story because it's Ethan Hawke,
(26:45):
but going back to what
we were saying, there's
so many different ways and aspects. You
can dice up the story.
And so I just say, you
know, for ourselves, it's like, we take
it, we move on. It
doesn't really change that
much. Do you work and keep going and just
know that this is part of the game? Yeah,
totally. I'll be honest. The job that I
booked is not from my
(27:06):
Instagram. Same. The two jobs
I've been doing here, I guarantee you no
amount of Instagram
posts or stories would
have gone through those jobs. Yeah,
exactly. Anyway, so
moving on, how much money goes
into an Oscar campaign? I think we'll,
(27:27):
we'll start with Brady
Corbett story first, actually.
Let's start with the guess. I'm going to
guess. Oh, okay. How
much? Do you have a figure?
There's not one figure. It's a range, but
yeah, you can, you can
guess. So let's, let's,
let's go ahead. Guess how much Oscar
campaign is worth. So
(27:48):
it's, so it's a hundred million
dollar movie. So it's not even a $200
million blockbuster. So
it's like a, say it's even
like a 60 or an $80 million movie. I
would say they put in 5
million into Oscar campaigns.
That seems like a lot. I don't know. Oh
wow. Even that's really
on the low range. A few
(28:09):
million dollars for a smaller film and 20
to 30 for major studio
contenders. What? And
to be honest, that's probably old. That's
probably old news. Is it
worth that much? So we're
going to get into that. Just give me a
straight answer. He
can't. This is 2019. So this is
going off of 2019. They, they paid 20 or
(28:31):
$30 million in 2019. So
let that's actually a good,
good place to start. And put in
perspective, Brady Corbett,
according to him made $0 on
the brutalist. I don't, I'm not, I'm not
their account. I don't
know how all the ins and outs
work of that, but it does not shock me.
They shot in Hungary. They
shot massive tax credits.
(28:52):
Everyone's flying to Europe and going to
Europe to shoot these,
these movies. But if you, and I
did watch the movie, so I have a little
context. I mean, it's epic. Great
performances. What you,
it's what worthy of this. It's also three
and a half hours long, but
it's an epic movie. And you
know, you want to guess that most of the
money that they put into
the movie is on the screen.
(29:13):
And apparently Brady Corbett made $0. He
says that he didn't make
money until he directed three
ads or commercials in Portugal. That's
the first time he made any money in
years. And so this is
the thing. It's like, you know, people
can, you know, we're the
face of, you know, actors are,
(29:33):
are in commercials and people can easily
judge commercials, but
you're like, Hey, we got to pay
these bills. And sometimes being, you
know, in a Netflix show, isn't going to
pay those bills like
it is for a, you know, target commercial.
That's the irony of it,
isn't it? Like the work that,
the work that you love and the work that
you want to do often doesn't
pay as well as the work that
like, uh, right. Like, we're like
(29:54):
commercials that people don't set out to,
I don't think people get
into acting to be in commercials as a,
you know, as a, as a goal, but it's
amazing how like they can
pay for your whole year. Also you can
work with Oscar nominated directors in a
commercial, you know,
like even I did, I did a commercial in
Mexico city, um, a few years ago and the
(30:16):
director was, uh, Dave
Myers, who's two directs, like has
dropped every music video, like every
major star you can think of.
He's directed their music videos. Oh,
he's huge. I mean, he's been, he's been
crushing commercials for years.
Uh, let's see off the top of my head.
That actually reminded me. I, I did a
Facebook commercial back when
(30:36):
they were called Facebook. Um, it was
actually in the, the start of the
pandemic. It was very under wraps
because people were just getting used to
zoom. Um, it was a Facebook commercial
directed by Michelle Gondry.
Wow. Wow. Talk about that's out of left
field. That's out of left field. And
then, you know, it's, it's like,
you know, all this, it's like, I, a lot
(30:57):
of, I, I, a lot of my, my earnings is
from commercials. So I'm not,
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna poopoo not
one, one bit. I commercials are high on
my priority list. Oh, you
push it through the commercial world. I
don't know. Really lucky. Many people
who, who make as much as you do from
commercials, who work as much as you do
in commercials. That's a, you have a
(31:18):
particularly amazing track record of
commercials. This, this is fit for
another podcast. I honestly don't know if I'm good or I'm really lucky.
And I'm not being humble. I, for some
reason, I'm very lucky because when I get
one, it runs. I am not,
I like, I'll be, I'll be
perfectly honest with you. It can be both
(31:39):
kind of surprised. I yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's true. That's true. You can't be
both. Um, I'm kind of surprised that I
don't book more commercials. I'm honest. I'm not the guy that books a
commercial year. And I know actors like
that. But if I book one, it's going to
run anyway. So I don't
want to, uh, dive into that.
(32:00):
No, because I was having this
conversation yesterday with, um, some of
the actors I went to the show with
afterwards and we're
talking about kind of people were talking
about sort of insecurities. It was like a
topic that came up just to, you know, the
insecure thoughts you have. And what are
the actors said? Uh, she goes, she goes, I'm always very confident in my work and I am too.
Like that's, I don't feel it's not, I
(32:21):
don't feel my insecurity or sorry,
insecure thoughts don't pop up in terms
of my work per se. You
know what I mean? Like I'm
confident in the work that I do and I'm
confident that jobs come my way. It's
other stuff that trips me
up. So when you say like I'm
lucky, I think that's also a mindset as
well, you know, which I think helps you. It's a very positive kind of a mindset. So you're saying that
lucky helps me mindset wise. I think
(32:46):
lucky is a mindset. Like I think that
that kind of feeds itself when you say
I'm very lucky. I think that's a very
positive kind of mindset that sort of
feeds itself. And like, I don't think
it's a coincidence that a lot of the commercials that you do go, you know, in the way that they do. That's a great point. That's a greatpoint. And, you know, it's also where we're talking, you know, we'll eventually do our super now. And I think that's a good point.
You know, that's also where we're
(33:06):
talking, you know, we'll eventually do
are supernatural meditation subconscious
episode later. But there's a lot to dig
into there that I don't even we're just skimming the surface here, but I completely agree. I like to have that mindset and it's worked for me. It's just something that I I've always felt. And whether it's rooted in anything real or not. I mean, we'll never know.
I'm just skimming the surface
here, but I completely agree.
I like to have that
mindset and it's worked for me.
It's just something that I've always felt
and whether it's rooted
in anything real or not,
(33:27):
I mean, we'll never know.
It doesn't matter though.
Like it doesn't really
matter because it's like the idea
that like I always had this
idea in the back of my head
that this career will work out for me.
You know, always, even when
I kind of had a lot of doubt
and a lot of self doubt,
always, it was always a voice
in the back of my head going,
it'll work, it'll work, it'll work.
So I always believed that.
And, you know, now that it
(33:48):
is working and, you know,
it looks at my career, it looks a lot
different than it did,
you know, 10 years ago,
five years ago, whatever.
That belief, I've
started to really see the value
of that belief.
I don't know where it came from either.
Cause, you know,
especially in the beginning
or there was periods of time
where the evidence didn't
(34:08):
support it, but I just felt,
no, it's okay, keep working.
And similarly, when
you hear actors who are,
who, and I'm not blaming
anybody for this or judging them,
but they talk about, oh,
it's so hard, it's so hard,
it's so hard.
But I think part of how
hard it is, is saying that,
because it just reinforces
it in your head all the time.
(34:29):
You know, that this is a
hard business, hard business,
it's a hard business.
The people I see that are most successful
are the people that kind of
have a kind of a confidence
that yeah, everything's
good and it's not hard.
Like it's easy.
Whether that's true or
not, it doesn't matter.
The attitude sort of serves them.
If that makes any
sense, which it may not.
I love that.
And I think, I totally believe that.
(34:49):
And I think that Leslie
also kind of preaches that.
She uses a metaphor that you're skiing,
you're skiing down a slope.
And the more times that you go down,
you're making grooves of
the path of your track.
Yeah, neuropaths.
The more that those,
exactly, those tracks
are just getting deeper, deeper, deeper.
(35:10):
And maybe they're a good track, maybe
they're a good path,
or maybe they're not,
maybe they're not helping you.
And I would like to say that,
for both of us in
this particular instance,
it happened to be a good track
that we always happen to believe.
And it's kind of ingrained after a while
and it's just there.
She also uses that as an analogy
(35:30):
for forging new neural
pathways in the way you work.
Because I will say with
all this mindset stuff,
you still have to put in the work.
You still have to train
and be as good as you can be.
And I, for myself, like
continually try to practice that
and reinforce it and get better.
But like, her thing about
the tracks in the snow is
it takes time to
forge new neural pathways.
(35:52):
So, you know, you've the old grooves
that you can fall back into very easily,
or you can forge new ones.
And the reason you
have to keep practicing
is it snows every night.
Because in order to make them deeper,
you have to keep working in that way.
So, like related to this,
if you want to adopt that mindset,
(36:12):
it might take a bit of work.
You know what I mean?
It might take a bit of,
but the benefits of it are
massive in my experience.
That's great.
So, let's get back to this.
So, we're talking about Oscar campaigns.
This is the stuff that
studios don't talk about.
In 2019, we're looking at 20 to $30
million for contenders.
(36:34):
Whether that's increased or not,
it just gives you a gauge.
There are strict rules as far as,
oh, okay, this is
actually what I want to start,
because you touched on this.
It absolutely does help the movie.
It absolutely does an Oscar campaign,
Oscar buzz, say a nomination.
(36:56):
Brady Corbett is not
unhappy to fly around the world
to promote this film.
Yeah, he got paid $0 for it.
He knows that it's crucial
for more people to see it.
It's crucial to obviously win it
if people, you know,
you're more likely to win it
if people actually see your movie.
If Demi Moore gives a viral
speech at the Golden Globes,
these little things are
(37:18):
all part of the influence of,
I want to go see this movie.
I got to see this movie.
So, there's no doubt
that it helps the movie.
It just kind of
interesting how the studios
have so much money to shell out.
Yeah, that is surprising,
especially when we hear
about guest stars being billed
(37:39):
as co-stars, and
yeah, when we're fighting
to get a fair wage, that
there's $20 to $30 million.
When they ask us to
do favors to save $200,
you start wondering.
Yeah, yeah, that's
where that money's going,
into the Oscar budget.
There are strict rules and regulations.
(38:01):
How big is your party?
What you can have at the party?
How many people you can invite at
screenings and invites?
Oh.
The whole words, or the
phrase, for your consideration,
is specifically because you can't say,
please vote for me.
Oh, wow, okay.
I know, I didn't know that.
I learned so much when I
was looking into this story.
(38:22):
So many rules,
regulations, and this is the tip
of the iceberg.
For you to be considered,
let's, oh, I do want to say,
the SAG Awards are this weekend.
We're recording before the SAG Awards,
but the SAG Awards are the award show
for all SAG members, obviously.
This is not the only award show,
(38:43):
but to submit for
consideration, you have to pay.
You have to pay an entry to submit.
For the SAG Awards?
Yep.
Oh, interesting.
For an individual,
it's hundreds of dollars.
For an entire film, it's thousands.
So this is, all these
academies and all these bodies
(39:03):
are accepting these fees
just for these award shows.
To email blast, hey,
for your consideration,
consider so-and-so to
nominate for the SAG Awards.
You have to pay thousands of dollars.
Really?
For an email blast.
The SAG Awards is not the only one.
In all of these guilds,
(39:23):
in all of these awards,
let's see, an email blast for
documentaries is $500 to $250.
It's $500.
A cost of a mailing
to its members is $500.
The academy fee, after
nominations are announced,
the academy, for each blast, it's $1,000.
(39:48):
So when you say blast,
like, what's the stop meaning
you sending out an email blast?
Will they just go,
hey, you can't do that?
Or is it just, do you
have to do it through them
or is there a--
That's a great point.
So the email blast is an official email
blasted from the academy.
So say, for example,
like, we're members of SAG,
so the entire membership
(40:08):
of SAG that has an email,
we'll get blasted and
say, hey, vote for so-and-so
for this role in The Brutalist.
And so when our emails
got flooded with screenings
and all that stuff,
every so often you will see
an email blast about a
film or a behind the scenes
or an interview, I had
no idea it cost that much.
And so there you go.
(40:30):
That's the money
behind an Oscar campaign.
20 to 30 million dollars, like.
Side little note about
when this all started.
The way that the story goes, it goes back
to Shakespeare in Love.
Shakespeare in Love.
Of all the people, the mastermind,
the Oscars mastermind, Harvey Weinstein,
(40:51):
Shakespeare in Love, so people remember,
that was the year that they beat
Saving Private Ryan for Best Picture.
There was a war going on
during the campaign season.
Harvey Weinstein was
going for it like he was
and they got Best Picture.
And I wanna say, since then,
(41:11):
they had to put regulations,
they had to put rules
on it, and now it became
this huge thing after all these years
of what the Oscars is.
And I'm not gonna lie, I
actually remember watching
Shakespeare in Love, I
actually really liked it.
It really, the pre-actor Econ,
it just struck something at me.
Anyway.
You're like, I wanna
be like Joseph Fiennes.
Exactly.
Speaking of Saving Private
(41:32):
Ryan, they actually filmed
the beach scene down in
Wexford here in Ireland,
storming the beach.
Oh, that famous scene.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Saving Private Ryan
was a heavy favorite, so.
Masterminded by notorious bastards.
Exactly.
That's Hollywood, huh?
You know, and the funny thing is,
I can see it making more sense in the 90s
(41:56):
when there was DVD
sales and there was much,
I imagine a much bigger profit on movies.
I feel like it's
bragging rights, it's prestige.
How much does it help Netflix bottom line
if Amelia Perez wins Oscars?
I suppose it's a draw for them.
If you go to a streaming service and
they'll do it on Mac,
(42:16):
so they'll do it on Apple TV or whatever,
Oscar winners, and
they'll have it as a category.
And it does, I don't
know, like just for myself,
I will look to them first.
So consciously rate
them higher in my head,
because I'm like, oh, they want Oscars.
It's important for box office
and it's important for diverse films.
It's important for
diverse actors and so on.
And they call it the Oscar bump.
(42:37):
You know, it's gonna get eyeballs.
You just talk about like,
you just walk around and say,
yeah, I want an Oscar.
I mean, come on, that's kinda awesome.
All right, well, I feel
like that's a good place
to pin it.
This was a great episode.
Thanks guys.
Oh, well, duh, what am I doing?
I forgot hidden gems.
Let's do hidden gems.
Yeah, you forgot hidden gems.
(42:58):
You can, you fucking idiot.
(laughing)
Hoping to get by without a hidden gem.
I was, but I had a lot
of think about it today
and I did come up with one
and I can't remember it now.
So at the end of every episode,
we put out a couple of hidden gems,
a little nugget from the week.
Oh, I remembered.
I'll start.
This is for anybody, this is for celiacs
(43:20):
because there are
people with a gluten allergy
in the Dublin area.
This is a very specific hidden gem
on the north side of Dublin.
But I went to a pub
called the White House,
which is in Baldoyle, near
Port Mernic, where I'm from.
And my mother has a severe gluten allergy
(43:42):
and one of the owners of
this pub turns out a celiac
and the head chef is celiacs,
so they have
unbelievable gluten-free options.
My mom had like a proper
burger bone on a sandwich
for the first time in about 10 years
and a gluten-free
dessert and was over the moon.
So if you have, yeah, if you're looking
for really good gluten-free options,
(44:02):
the White House in
Baldoyle is a fantastic pub.
Sounds great.
That sounds really good.
The beauty of being
here at my family's home,
they have some stuff
literally for 50 some years.
The ironing board is the ironing board
that my mom had in Kentucky
because an old roommate
left at their apartment.
They're older than I am.
For the people watching,
(44:23):
for the people listening
on YouTube, I'm showing a book here.
This is a national diary from 1969.
And it's so adorable
because when my dad didn't use it
and 10 years later, he
wrote 1979 over it, okay?
And for those that don't know,
my dad was and is a math professor.
Anyway, so the first page is this article
(44:48):
that he cut and pasted in
the first page of this journal.
It was an article interviewing
a Harvard University professor
who just won the
Nobel Prize in chemistry,
William N. Lipscomb.
Anyway, so they're interviewing him
about his prize-winning
research of boron and hydrogen
(45:09):
for all the people looking
for some saucy chemistry.
His one quote was so applicable
and I just thought it
was really, really fun.
When you found out that
you won the Nobel Prize,
what did you feel?
Did you feel like he at
least achieved recognition?
He goes, "No, I just said I was pleased.
(45:30):
Some reporters didn't
understand that at all."
You see, in scientific research,
you know what you have accomplished
and the people in your
field who read your papers know
recognition grows
right along with your work,
rather undramatically.
And that's the part I was reading.
Because I was like,
this idea that, you know,
are we chasing after a result?
Are we chasing after an award?
Are we chasing after booking jobs?
(45:51):
Are we chasing after
bragging to your friends?
Are you chasing after
Instagram followers?
The work is always going to be the work
and it's gonna be undramatic.
Is that because scientific achievements
are so precisely measurable?
Of course.
And I couldn't work in a
field which isn't measurable.
Besides, I doubt anyone can work
for a Nobel Prize in any field.
(46:14):
He doesn't think you can
work towards a Nobel Prize.
That would stop the flow of ideas.
All you can bring to your
task is a consuming interest
in your subject and
patience and hard work.
All you can bring to your
task is a consuming interest
in your subject and
patience and hard work.
You can't chase after a Nobel Prize and
that's my hidden gem.
(46:34):
Some words from it.
How hidden is that?
You were not expecting that.
Nothing boron about that, hidden gem.
I was just trying to think
of hydrogen and boron puns.
I hope you enjoyed this
episode and we'll see you next week.
See you next week, you bastards.
All right.
See you next week.
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