Welcome to the Actor’s Guide to the End of the World Podcast, this is Episode 50! We have decided to look back on the past 50 episodes and talk about what the experience was like, what was our favorite parts as well as the biggest surprises. The conversation ranges widely from takes that we thought we got right, and some that were wrong, and how the podcast changed our mind on certain things. This is a wide-ranging conversation, and have you ever heard of the Soderbergh - three shot rule?...
This is a special one, thanks to everyone for the support and sharing the journey with us.
Follow @actorsguidepodcast on all podcast platforms, including video on YouTube and Substack.
Leave a review if you enjoy the podcast, it really helps others find us. Also follow @actorsguidepodcast on all social media!
@ekansoong @riansheehykelly
Soderbergh 3 shot rule- https://www.andsoitbeginsfilms.com/2018/04/breaking-down-steven-soderberghs-three.html
HIDDEN GEMS:
Diary of a CEO with Vanessa Van Edwards Body Language Expert- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHUrdELKjDw
John Donahue “Benedictus” - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1056526.Benedictus
Time stamps:
(0:00) Intro
(2:30) Our take on AI
(7:40) The Gen-Z Stare
(10:50) Biggest surprise of the podcast
(18:15) On setting goals as an actor
(21:30) Rían’s clips from his life plays in his head
(28:00) Watching self tapes for 4 seconds
(33:25) Hidden Gems
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(01:32):
All right, welcome to the Actors Guide to
the Underworld podcast where we talk
about acting in Hollywood
and why people understand
I'm E-Kan SooNG and this is...
Rían Sheehy Kelly, what's happening?
What's up, buddy?
Follow us wherever you find your podcasts
at Actors Guide Podcasts. We're on all
social media for fun
clips during the week.
Follow Actors Guide Podcast.
Leave us a review, leave us a like. We
(01:53):
got a new review last
week. It was very...
That was a good one,
wasn't it? I just saw that.
Yeah, old friend.
We reconnected through
this podcast, so a shout out.
Who did say that my voice sounded like
ASMR, so I'm gonna talk like
this for the rest of the day.
Oh, there you go. Yeah,
you did get a shout out.
Welcome to the Actors Guide to the End of the World.
(02:13):
On the episode today, this is episode
number 50, we have a little look back at
the past episodes, our favorite bits.
We talk about things that we thought we
really got right. We talk about things
that we felt that we got wrong.
Yeah, we talk about goals
in acting and in life and...
Bits that still resonate with us. So this
(02:35):
is big episode number 50. I'll put in
crowd applause sounds and...
Away we go.
I didn't know what you
were gonna say there.
Just sit back and relax
and enjoy the episode.
And today's show is brought to you by...
Tired of looking up at your romantic
lead? Need a step letter or
kiss your romantic co-star?
Tired of just being Danny DeVito in twins
and not Arnold Schwarzenegger in twins?
(02:57):
Give yourself a boost
with Hollywood Heels Insoles.
You're gonna go from Tom Cruise to Terry
Crews. Now in Crocs.
This is a special week,
everyone. This is episode 50.
The big fire.
I didn't want to make a big deal about
this, but I'm wearing buttons and a
collar. I dressed up nice for this.
Oh, you should have told me, man. I was
actually thinking of that.
(03:18):
I was like, should I
dress up for this episode?
Do you know what, though? I have to say,
I took inspiration from Brandon Finn.
I mean, not obviously today, but Brandon
Finn dressed up for
our podcast, which was...
I thought that was really cool.
And that was a good...
I thought that was a good little reminder
to just, you know, dress to impress.
(03:41):
I completely agree.
And I actually think that's a thing.
That wasn't by accident.
Brandon Finn was dressed
in nine for our podcast.
And I think when he does
appearances, that's how he goes.
So it is a good lesson learned.
So this week I'm
wearing a collar and buttons.
I didn't want to draw
attention to this, but
(04:02):
I've been living out of a
suitcase for nine months.
I do not have a lot of clothes.
That being said, this is the debate is,
is I have one good shirt and we have a
few big guests coming up.
And I want to dress well for them.
He has three.
Yeah, exactly.
Three t-shirts.
Yeah. So this is a special episode.
(04:23):
The past year, this is roughly a year.
We just wanted to celebrate on episode 50
because it's a nice round number.
But I don't want to pet ourselves.
This is not going to be, you know,
patting ourselves on
the back for 40 minutes.
No, please.
But I will say our take on namely A.I.
has been pretty good.
(04:45):
I think we kind of jumped in
with the Ben Affleck episode.
That was almost a year ago.
Ben Affleck came out with, you know, very
articulate, very clear
points about what he thought A.I.
was and where he thought A.I. was going.
He said it was a tool.
It was going to be very
good for mundane tasks.
(05:08):
But as far as replacing the artists,
replacing the creator, it wasn't going to
happen, at least not any time soon.
And he wasn't worried.
Now, this is a whole year ago.
So that's a long time considering all the
things that we have seen.
Here we are, you know, a couple of weeks
after the announcement of Tilly.
(05:29):
And we don't see anything substantive
that Tilly is going to be winning any
Oscars anytime soon.
So should we have around the podcast?
To be honest, that's not too far off.
We could easily have her on the podcast.
You know, we didn't mention this.
I don't know if you knew this.
They turn off their comments.
Tilly has turned off her
comments on social media.
Oh, is there like a page?
(05:51):
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
100%.
So she was an Instagram
just like anyone else.
You know, maybe some people actually
thought she was real, but she had an
Instagram where she has an Instagram just
like any other, you know, aspiring actor.
And they had to turn off their comments.
Speaking of A.I., to all the people who
trust chat GPT implicitly, I was just
(06:14):
looking up the accuracy rate of it.
It's not great.
Like at times it's it's pretty low.
I just I know people who
trust it for everything.
And I'm like, I'm at that.
Yeah, it has no interest in being right.
It just aggregates information.
And this seems the most likely answer.
There you go.
Also this week, we're not going to dive
into it, but, you know, Sora to whatever
(06:35):
that is, it's just like basically this
app that just pumps your face and your
your likeness in a
bunch of crazy scenarios.
We were wondering what is the market for
wanting to see yourself in a bunch of
whether it's a TV
series property or whatnot.
That's what Sora to is.
So to is basically tick
tock where have you seen this?
(06:57):
No, it's it's kind of incredible.
I'm wondering what the market is.
I absolutely will not use it.
It will take your likeness and put it in
a bunch of crazy, extravagant, wild,
hilarious scenarios.
You could put your friends in your in
your sort to you can put them all in fake
scenarios and drag them all in your A.I.
(07:20):
slop and you can literally watch yourself
repeatedly throughout the day just going
through this wormhole
as if it's tick tock.
Do you know what that does it seamlessly?
Do you know what that seems like?
It seems like that's such a like a quick
hit, like a quick dopamine hit, like the
actual longevity of that, I
wouldn't imagine, is great.
(07:41):
Like how much
entertainment can you get from that?
It's a real novelty kind of a thing.
It's just a kind of, oh, what kind of
shite is it going to throw out now?
OK, that's I can't imagine
that's in any way sustainable.
And I agree.
But also, to be fair, it's like you are
speaking from a very grounded,
(08:01):
well-balanced person who
does not go on tick tock.
And I think that's I do not.
I think that's the point is we have we
have, you know, hundreds of millions of
people who actually actively are getting
that dopamine hit in similar ways.
It just they're not
watching videos of themselves.
But the other thing as well, I think it
does is like it's it's it's smacks of
like just further isolation.
(08:24):
Like if you're at home watching fake
videos of yourself in imaginary
situations, like what are you doing?
I mean, you're not you
don't learn anything from that.
You're not interacting
with anybody. Really.
That is a danger.
Well, yeah, because I've you know, I have
two nieces and I look at them.
And I worry about that
because I'm like one already.
(08:46):
You know, the older one is so phone savvy
and screen savvy because that's just the
world that she grew up in.
She knows how to use a screen.
And she's known since she was, you know,
two or three years old, she was able to
pick up on the how you operate a screen.
And I I don't know.
I'm so glad that I that I that I grew up
in an era where that wasn't an issue.
(09:07):
Before we move on, we were this was
supposed to be easy,
quick, quick topic before we go.
Before we move on and not to get too
dark, but someone
just mentioned recently,
have you heard of the Gen Z stare?
The Gen Z stare. You
don't know what that is.
That doesn't mean anything to you, right?
OK, so basically when we have, you know,
(09:27):
in the working world at this point,
you know, I mean, I'm not saying us
because we don't have corporate jobs,
but a lot of other people
are, you know, you're forced.
I know exactly right. So, you know, a lot
of jobs there, you
know, you have boomers,
you have millennials and then you have
Gen Z, which is, you know,
the one after millennials.
Gen Z basically grew up with a, you know,
(09:47):
social media and a screen in their hand.
And like like like you're saying anyway,
so people are realizing this huge
generation gap that we have.
And a lot of times older people are
having trouble interacting with Gen Z.
And so one of the things that was talked
about about this
interaction is the Gen Z stare.
(10:07):
So essentially how people were describing
because I didn't know exactly what it was
until we started talking about it.
A lot of times Gen Z will just stare at
you and and it's not rude
or meant to be condescending.
It wasn't meant to be anything. But the
thing is, is according to how someone was
explaining it to me,
they're so used to getting taught and
(10:29):
interacted with the screen that their
facial gestures or indications
weren't necessary to reciprocate because
they're learning from a screen.
So the point is, is when you're
interacting, say, for example, you're
serving someone at the bar and you're
giving someone good service.
Or if someone introduces you to a mutual
(10:50):
friend and they just happen to be Gen Z,
he's like, oh, hi, my name is Econ.
And then you try to relate and you try to
like, you know, kind of engage, but in an
open and vulnerable way,
you try to match and mirror.
Gen Z will just stare at
you a lot of the times.
It's not malicious.
That's just their base level because
they're used to learning and
interacting with the screen.
(11:11):
And also, I'll take it
another step further.
When you're asking stuff from A.I., you
don't actually need to be that polite.
You can say yes and you can say please
and you can do all that stuff.
But when it comes down to it, a guy is
going to give you
whatever you want and it doesn't.
You don't have to say
thank you or please.
I think that's kind of like what we're
getting at, that this is the next step.
(11:33):
And should we be worried?
I just realized you were
frozen the entire time.
No, I was just practicing.
That's my Gen Z stare.
I was going to say how long
I could play that out for.
You were literally frozen.
But yeah, there you go.
I'm going to see how
long it takes you to know.
(11:53):
That's crazy.
That's very unnerving.
Kids, sometimes kids do that, too.
Like kids will stare at you.
You know what I mean?
You're like, wow.
You know, you'd be like out in public and
a kid will just stare
at you because they've
no self-consciousness about.
And you're like, oh,
that's it's kind of unnerving.
All right.
Well, that was a that
was a fun and bright topic.
That was a nice little laugh.
(12:14):
Well, I was going to ask, what has been
what has been your
favorite part of doing this
podcast or what have you personally
learned or that says,
what have you learned that
sort of surprised you
about it that you enjoy?
OK.
You know, it's one thing to speculate
(12:35):
when we're getting ready to do it.
And it's another thing
to actually have done it.
And you're like, oh, this actually is
what it was like or what happened.
Yeah.
What were your expectations going in?
Where did I, you know, did you have
expectations about what
it was going to be like?
To be honest, no.
And I think that that
helped me out a lot.
You know, we're obviously not the first
people to do a podcast,
(12:57):
but, you know, I want to
say 50 feels like nothing, which is the
crazy thing is 50 feels
like we're just and this is
kind of like what I was expecting.
I felt like 50 episodes would be we're
just getting the hang of it.
And I feel like we're
actually getting the hang of it.
The other thing I would say is I don't
(13:19):
want to say it actually was like therapy.
But the actual doing of it
was like, oh, this actually.
This actually does a lot of good for me
personally, being able to
talk about things that I had
on my mind and that has nothing to do
(13:41):
with the audience's reception of it.
It doesn't, you know, on a base level.
Me as a person is enjoying this and also
finds its beneficial as
a person and as a human
being, aside from being as an actor,
aside from being your
friend, just on a base level,
(14:04):
expressing myself and being able to speak
about it in a safe environment.
And also the fact that some people might
enjoy it and get help out of it.
I cared very little about this is going
to make me feel good.
I absolutely never thought about that at
all or considered that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like that.
I like that.
That's a great unexpected result.
(14:24):
I think for me, like I like similarly, I
went in with zero expectations.
I mean, I remember we talked about it
when we had coffee that day and it just
seemed like, oh yeah,
that might be a cool idea.
And without really knowing what it was
going to look like, it's
been an enjoyable process
learning it and
learning kind of how it works.
But by far, I think my favorite part of
(14:46):
it love having guests on.
I really enjoy that.
Like learning about other people and
chatting to other people.
And like that has been, I'm surprised at
how much I really, really enjoy that.
I love it.
I just, not that I, not surprised that I
enjoy it, but how much I enjoy it.
It puts me in touch with people that I
wouldn't maybe normally get to spend that
(15:08):
much time talking to,
you know what I mean?
A dedicated however long, hour and a
half, two hours talking
and finding out about them.
I find that to be so enjoyable and
enlightening and it kind of
like opens up a whole new swath
of people like to talk to and parts of
(15:30):
this industry to learn
about and, you know, like
talking to Kirsten and Patrick and
Brandon and like, Sean,
everybody we've had on, I've
really enjoyed that, that,
you know, that process of it.
And I like the fact that there's like two
of us sort of chatting
to one person as well,
because we both sort of
bring something different.
(15:51):
But I, I, um, yeah, that's
been so enjoyable for me.
I really feel quite comfortable talking
to, you know, like I
really feel at home doing that.
You know, and we've
been really fortunate.
We, you know, we have people that we, you
know, respond well to, but also are very
articulate, you know, great stories.
(16:11):
In Kevin Welch's episode of like the
stories about football
and like his journey inside,
like all of that stuff is
really interesting to me.
One thing I do enjoy is when we talk
about topics and I sort
of discover something as
we're talking about it that I didn't know
was in there, you know,
that I didn't know was
in my head.
And I'm like, oh, that's how
I actually think about that.
(16:31):
And I don't know until
it's coming out of my mouth.
It's been a really enjoyable experience.
I feel like it's put me in touch with,
um, the sort of wider
community and the, the
industry sort of at large that I would
not have had the
opportunity to do, or just, I
just wouldn't have had the even idea to,
to get that deep into it.
So some of the union issues, some of the
(16:52):
nuts and bolts of it,
um, some of the industry
news, the things that are going on, it,
it kind of forces me to
pay attention to things
in a way that I really didn't before in
any level of detail.
And then I've had a lot of, you know,
we've had a lot of
feedback and I talked to my
friends or listened to the podcast and
they'll bring up topics
and they say, oh, I love
(17:12):
that conversation about this, or I love
that you brought this up.
And that's really cool.
Like that, that, that you would sort of
have an impact on other people as well.
Um, so I, I, yeah, it's been a really,
really gratifying experience so far.
A couple of those things, 50 episodes in.
I've never done anything
consistently like that.
(17:33):
And it was really good practice for me as
well to be like, Hey,
when it came down to
it, the mindset was every
week it's going to get out.
That's it there.
You know, I can fight it.
I can, I can complain
about it all I want.
Um, and, and I, and I have, yeah, I'm
just joking around,
but, um, you know, it's,
it's kind of like this
great mindset every week.
(17:54):
We were like, this episode's gunning out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And also like to entertain people, like,
you know, when you hear back and you get
feedback and people are
like, Oh, I love this.
I love that.
Like we're entertaining
people in some ways as well.
And that's really cool to me.
Cause I mean, that's what I'd love that.
You know, that's what I love about.
It's one of the things I love about
(18:15):
acting and I like entertaining people.
I like making people think I like make me
people laugh, you know.
Um, so that's a really cool.
Oh, when we were talking about the guest
interviews, I realized, you know, we're
busy, we have lives.
Sometimes we lose touch with friends.
Sometimes we don't have a chance to have
a deep conversation.
(18:36):
Uh, maybe you can chat with someone and
catch up with someone on coffee, but
this is a opportunity where, Hey, we can
have a deep dive conversation.
It doesn't matter if we knew the person
for 10 years or not.
Um, it's a very special opportunity to be
like, I got to know
someone on a deeper level.
That's a, that's a great point.
Cause I think, um, you wouldn't
ordinarily get to sit
(18:58):
someone down and have a
conversation with them for a couple of
hours about their life experience and ask
them in that way, because it's more of a
natural conversation.
Doesn't really follow that same path.
You know what I mean?
Unless you're like, Hey, I want to learn
more about you, but
it's more of a two way
street.
So I think the opportunity to get to know
(19:19):
someone in that way
is, is, is quite unique.
I like the contrast of talking to someone
I know and learning
more about them in that
way, but also then talking
to people I've never met.
Like I didn't know Brandon.
I'd never spoken to
Brandon before we shot it.
And I had a great conversation.
You know, I really enjoyed
that and learning about it.
Just looking past at the last 50, are
there any tidbits from guest interviews
(19:43):
that stick out to you now?
I'll start and, you know, I, and I, you
know, we kind of do this when we do our
little after party after the guest, but
you know, just because there was a recent
interview, I'm still wrestling with the
idea, you know, uh, Sean, Sean Sharma was
talking about this idea that, you know,
to have a certain focus, let's say, for
example, what is your goal as an actor?
(20:05):
And you could easily say,
well, I just want to work.
Well, you know, the analogy was, well,
you, you go into the
grocery store and you just
say, I want to eat.
It's like, what aisle
are you going to go to?
What are you going to make?
Are you going to make Italian or are you
going to make a salad?
You know what I mean?
So this idea of, you know, kind of
(20:27):
focusing your efforts, I
realized that I was with
how I approached
specific specifically acting.
I just enjoyed it.
I still enjoy it.
I enjoy doing drama.
I could do comedy.
You know, occasionally I might do a
sketch or a goofy little
thing, but maybe that's
just really how I feel about acting.
(20:47):
If I wanted to succeed, would it benefit
myself for taking a lane or do I need to
choose a lane with acting and a lot of
the other pursuits
that I have that I'm, you
know, doing online?
That's just something
that's been on my mind.
It's just that idea that, you know, that
stood out to me as well.
And I loved what he said about, you know,
(21:07):
if you want to be in a game of throne
style show, he's like, are you sending
your stuff to Nina Gold?
Are you, you know what I mean?
Are you seeking out the casting directors
and the directors and the showrunners and
the people that make this kind of stuff
and sending stuff to
them or targeting them?
Or, uh, that was really helpful for me.
Um, and it's an interesting topic to
(21:28):
getting very specific about your goals.
Because I think it really, really helps
some people to be hyper specific and it's
limiting for other people.
Just, just because, you know, just
speaking for myself.
So well, there's a certain amount you
can, you can be specific in this career.
(21:49):
But as you know, it's like, it takes a
lot of twists and turns and it's hard to,
unless you're creating your own stuff,
it's kind of hard to
know, to dictate what's
next.
Yeah.
Um, that's it.
That's a very tricky thing.
I have found for myself, it's a kind of a
combination of the two.
If I get too specific about what I want,
because my, because of the way my brain
works, it's, it's,
(22:10):
it's incredibly visual.
Like I, um, you know, I can, I can, when
I think of things, I
get sometimes get bogged
down in the details of them because I
have a very visual
brain and I can see all the
parts and then I start noticing issues
and problems and trying to fix them.
Yeah.
It gets burned into your brain.
Yeah.
I just, I just, because I see it so
clearly, I get lost in it.
(22:31):
And I also, and I don't know if this is
the case for a lot of people, but I,
throughout my day will get sort of a, not
all the time, but a lot of the day I will
get, um, like little clips of bits and
pieces of my life in quite clear detail.
It's like a, it's like a showreel of my
life just running and it can be from.
Sorry, because we, I remember you, you,
(22:53):
you mentioned this and
it never made it into
an episode, but yeah, explain, explain
this to me because
that's, that's the first
time I ever heard of this.
And I didn't know if this was a case for
people, but I will get like little
see comment, comment
shows that actors guy podcast.
So sort of randomly, uh, I will get
little clips in my head of various
(23:15):
different pieces of my life.
There's no rhyme or reason to it.
It could be from when I was five or 12
or, you know, could
be three months ago or
whatever, but I'll get like little
snapshots of my life
and they'll just come.
They're just, it's like, there's a little
screen over here and I can, I look up at
it every so often, there'll be like clips
of my life just playing.
Um, how many times do you see the same
clip over and over again?
(23:37):
I mean, not often, but I can access, I
can access different parts of my life
visually, very easily.
You know what I mean?
And if I, if I think of, I can think, I
can remember the details.
It's not like I have
a photographic memory.
I don't, you know what I mean?
I can't look at a page and memorize it.
You know what I mean?
Like that right away.
I'm going to get lost in this now.
This is what I'm talking
(23:57):
about with specificity.
With specificity, if I, if I get too
specific on what I want, I get caught up
in the images, I have to lean into the
emotion of it rather than a specific
image of it sometimes.
I think my real question to you, because
I know that you have a deep passion for
for acting is do you even have a goal?
(24:18):
Whether it's all, you know, sketched out
very loosely, or it's
very, very, very defined.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do.
I do.
I mean, I have several markers and goals,
um, that I, you know, that I have in my
mind, but, but again, it's like the
attachment to them, I have to be careful
(24:40):
with, like I can't, I can't get too
attached to a specific outcome, but I do.
I have a number of goals that, um, but
then try and enjoy
what I'm doing right now.
Obviously, you know, you don't have to,
I'm not pulling, you know, you don't
have to say any of these, but I think
that's kind of like what I'm getting
at is, is I don't like I, I
(25:01):
don't, and that bothers me.
It's like, it's bothering more me more
now after this kind of conversation,
as far as, you know, you want to eat,
what do you want to eat?
Um, it's bothering and this is kind of
actually perfect that we circle around
about this because it took us 50 episodes
and we look at our
careers very differently.
And this is kind of like a perfect
(25:23):
example of that because I have no goal.
And I'm jealous of you because I knew
that you had a very clear defined
passion and desire for the acting career,
but also I had a feeling you had goals,
whether you define them or not, you had a
compass directing you and I kind of
(25:43):
didn't, and I just enjoyed the ride and I
was so much far on the other spectrum.
And it did me well.
And to be honest, I very much enjoy life
and I enjoyed this career so far,
but that's the stark difference between
how we look at it and there we go.
Yeah.
And it's interesting in your case because
you have worked a lot, you know,
(26:04):
and I, I wonder if in the past, if that
lack of specificity has helped you in
some ways, cause there's less attachment
to an outcome, it might've made you more
free to just kind of go
with whatever's coming.
But if, if you've hit a point where you'd
like to set some goals, we'll give it a
try and see how it's, you know, see what
(26:25):
it does for your day today.
Cause really whatever goals you have, you
still have to live in now.
You still have to just
deal with the moment you have.
So I would suggest try it.
I think that's spot on because, you know,
regardless of where we, you know, we,
we, we got into acting
(26:45):
as, as for a reason, right?
It's whether you, whether you, you know,
there's some reason why we all like
wandered into acting and for me, this
idea of freedom and
not having expectations,
not having necessarily disappointments,
not having anything to hold onto, but
also being free to play in that putting
restrictions actually worried me.
(27:06):
It would have worried if I was going to
define too many goals, it actually would
have worried me that I would, you know,
be too tight, be restricted, et cetera,
et cetera.
So that's, that's what I'm, I need to
play around with those
guidelines and boundaries too.
So there you go.
I agree with that.
I think, I think there's a
bit of trial and error to it.
(27:26):
So, I mean, one thing you could do, you
know, is, is like write, write some
down or think about it in a way and then
see if that changes, see what that
does to your experience of it, like
there's no harm in trying anything.
Like there's no, this is nothing to lose.
Basically.
Yeah.
(27:46):
This is what I'm saying with that.
But yeah, I do have goals, but again, I
have to be careful with the
specificity of those goals that it
doesn't take me out of what I'm doing.
And I don't see the lack of them.
Like I don't want to live in the lack of,
Oh, I'll be happy when this,
because that's not, that's
not the point of them for me.
It's, it's a sort of an overarching
destination that I trust I'll get to,
(28:06):
but I have to really
just enjoy the process.
And I do.
And one thing I was going to say on the
visual stuff in the imagination is that
it used to hinder me in the sense that,
um, when I would get a, an audition or a
script or whatever, and I'd read this
character, I would already have an image
in my mind of what
this person looked like.
And it didn't look like me because I
(28:27):
would have an image of
who I would cast in this.
So it took a number of years.
And that hurts you.
That hurts you.
Well, it does because it's, you're
already thinking it's
somebody else other than you.
And it took me a while
to sort of marry the idea.
No, this is me.
I'm just, I just get
to play this character.
And I get to have this character, but
this character looks like me because they
have to look like me because they are me.
(28:48):
You know what I mean?
You know, that visual thing, um, it can
be a real asset or it can be a bit of a,
a hindrance in some ways, like, but it's,
it's overall, I think
it's a, it's a great
asset now, but I had
to learn how to use it.
I'd say, you know, it'd be, we'd be wrong
to not say anything that we were wrong
(29:08):
about. And it's nice to
follow up on this one topic.
When we were talking about the casting
directors watching
tapes for four seconds, we
did talk about this a good amount.
We actually did two episodes on that, um,
because we had different feelings and we,
we thought about it and, uh, we actually
did a follow episode on that.
For those that don't remember, there was
(29:30):
a viral clip about a casting director
making a bold claim saying that she
knows, uh, she'll watch an actor's self
tape for four seconds.
She'll know that's all she needs to know.
She was very bold about it.
She was almost laughing about it.
It got clipped.
It got blown up.
And there's a lot of things about that.
(29:51):
Um, that triggered a lot of actors, but
it was also wrapped
up into, it was a first
episode of a podcast.
They were talking off the cuff.
It was great to get views and gear it
great to get some virality.
I don't know if it was the virality that
they wanted, but it brought up a larger
question that happened
in the acting community.
(30:12):
Looking back on it, their job is not to
watch every minute of our acting.
And their job is also not
to be our acting teacher.
They are hired.
Ideally, hopefully on a good show and
they are hired and they're a good casting
director, they are
hired for their tastes.
They choose certain actors
that might fit on this show.
(30:32):
It's more the importance of your moment
before, uh, the character genre.
All of it needs to be crystal clear in
the first, however
many seconds, they might
give a note that was translated to them
by the people on high, the producers
or the creators, they might, they might
(30:53):
actually have great instincts, but that
is not primarily their job is please
direct us to a great performance.
They can help.
Hopefully that made any sense.
No, absolutely.
It did.
It did make sense.
And I think what I took from it as well,
and I changed my mind on it too.
I had a very emotional response to it.
One, you're right.
I don't know anyone else's job.
It's none of my
business, how they do their job.
(31:14):
It's also none of my business.
What happens afterwards?
I can't control how
somebody receives something at all.
So all I can do is, is, is do my best and
then just let it go.
It was a great reminder to me to, uh, to
be so specific at the top and to, to
nail that moment and not worry about,
cause I know that
like, and I've talked to
(31:34):
other actors who do it, oh, this great
moment towards the end of the tape.
I really liked the way I did that or said
that like, they're probably not going to
get there, you know what I mean?
Uh, so it was a good reminder to me to do
like, to, to, to just be dropped in from
the top and then also let it go.
All the actors that I know that are
killers, I'm talking about killers.
(31:56):
They loved the fact that
that was a talking point.
They loved the fact that they already
knew that off the top and they love the
fact that this is the bar and this is the
bar that I try to crush every self-tape.
And that was it.
I was like, this, this was, this was an
illuminating conversation and you have,
you know, everyone talking about the
(32:17):
details as far as no, I'm a really nice
casting director.
I watch every 13 hours of self tapes and
I watch every, and I'm not judging that,
but you start to wonder, it's like, okay,
who's really telling the truth here?
Poor and constructive, a practical thing
that I can do is this
is really important.
Crush the top of your tape,
(32:37):
know exactly what you're doing.
And you turn on the tape and it's like,
this is an actor who knows what they're
doing.
That's it.
If you're on social media, if you're on
Tik TOK, if you're on Instagram, imagine
how many videos you're swiping by.
Imagine how many photos of your, all your
friends and all your family friends that
you're swiping by, they
don't, they come and go.
You're passing by them in a blink.
(32:57):
And how do you stop someone from
scrolling past your video?
It's the hook.
It's the hook, something intriguing, a
great photo, whatever, what have you, you
have way less than four seconds to get
them to stop scrolling.
It's no different than, you know, reading
the first page of a book.
You, you open up a book.
(33:18):
All you have to do is read that first
page that might get you sucked in.
If that first page doesn't work, then
you're going to move
on to the next thing.
I don't know about that.
I'm with the book.
I'm not just reading.
Oh, I don't know.
I know that people don't read.
Let's go back to the Instagram.
I'm reading more than one page of a book.
It's like, no, this is shite.
Um, uh, I want to attribute
(33:39):
this to Steven Soderbergh.
Steven Soderbergh says, I just need to
watch the first scene of a movie and I'll
know if the director
knows what he's doing.
Interesting.
I mean, Soderbergh is
obviously a very skilled director.
I'm going to kind of
lean towards what he thinks.
It's an interesting thing to think about.
The last thing I'll say about that, that
cast director four second thing is
(34:00):
sentences like that, that, that generate
buzz and go viral and create all this
emotion, it does lack
any context or nuance.
A soundbite.
But yeah, but it definitely helped me
clarify the bit that I can control
and what's important and a good reminder
to hit it from the top.
Like you say, first scene of a movie,
first paragraph of something you read,
(34:21):
like, yeah, you want to be drawn in, you
want to be entertained.
You want to, you want to, as, as, as, as
Brian Stepanek says, lean in.
You want the audience to lean in.
You know what I mean?
So anyway, that was, uh, that was
something that, yeah, I changed my mind
on as well pretty quickly.
Once we started to talk about it, uh,
after my knee jerk reaction.
(34:42):
Yeah.
And I mean, that knee jerk reaction, a
lot of people are still feeling that way.
So it's, it's one of those things where,
you know, this is ongoing.
Our industry is just ongoing, evolving
what we deal with and
how we interact with it.
This idea of hidden gems.
We managed to do that 50 for 50 episodes.
We're terrible.
(35:03):
What is your experience?
Hidden gems was a, you know, a fun thing
that we thought that we do.
It's a little treat.
If you listen to the end of the episode,
it's something from our life that we
thought might be helpful, some little
tidbit, you know, it
could even be a joke.
It could be any little thing that might
brighten up or help your day.
And it's a little treat, uh, at the end
of the episode, we call it hidden gems.
(35:25):
I have a mixed reaction to this cause
sometimes, sometimes it's great.
Cause it forces you to look at your week
and go, okay, what was cool about this
week or what did I, you know, the hard
part for me is like, sometimes I'm like,
there was nothing like
different or new in the week.
So it doesn't have to be from that week.
It's just, it's hard to,
it's hard to track it down.
Um, what's your hidden gem for this week?
(35:46):
Maybe this will inspire me.
So I stumbled across, this was
recommended by a friend
on their social media.
Uh, this is a video, uh, very popular.
Podcast or creator.
It's called the diary of a CEO.
He interviews needless to say, I mean,
obviously, I mean, he's huge.
So you probably heard of him.
(36:07):
But this one video that he did with a
body language expert.
Now here's the thing you can easily say,
Hey, uh, how is your hidden gem?
This guy that has 12 million, 11 million
followers on, on YouTube.
That's kind of like not the point because
in this sea of content, it's chances
are you don't know what, what the video
I'm going to talk about.
(36:27):
You know what I mean?
So, um, I'm glad that someone suggested
it and shared it because I watched every
minute of it and I
thought it was incredible.
He brings on a body language expert.
She's been working with people for years
and just put out a book.
She's working on her
second Vanessa van Edwards.
She's the founder of science of people.
And, uh, she gives people science backed
(36:48):
skills to improve communication and
leadership.
She would call herself an introvert.
She's ideally dealing with introverts and
people who come to her classes and she's
teaching people about the
science behind body language.
Now, first off, actors
need to watch this video.
I mean, to talk about your base zero,
(37:09):
they talk about, you know, quote unquote,
resting bitch face.
Obviously that's a problematic.
She is resting bothered face, just so you
know, but little things like what is your
base zero?
What are you giving off to the world?
What are you giving off to your friends?
How does that affect your world?
What are some things, practical things
that you can change that are backed by
(37:29):
science that can make you more popular,
help you build friends.
This is not some result oriented.
You're trying to scam people.
It's just, this is what I've been telling
the world for my entire life.
And I had no idea I was doing this.
It's the way that I hold my hands in a
zoom meeting is indicating something and
it's bothering people and
(37:50):
they don't even know why.
I just think it's practical advice to be
like, Oh, this is interesting.
I can add this to my life.
Um, anyway, it's great video.
Uh, huge interview.
We'll put the link in the description,
but I'm, I feel like I'm a better person
and more comfortable learning what I
(38:12):
learned in that video.
Okay.
So while you're improving your body
language, I'll be
practicing my Gen Z stare.
I don't know if they actually talk about
the Gen Z stare, but
they actually might've.
So yeah.
This book, did I talk about this before?
Oh, okay.
This is new.
Okay, cool.
What is this?
(38:32):
Okay.
So this, there's a, an
Irish poet, um, who passed away.
His name is John O'Donohue.
And he is an
absolutely incredible writer.
The one of his books that I, that I
returned to a lot, um,
is called Benedictus.
(38:53):
And it's a, it says
it's a book of blessings.
It's not like a, it's not
religious or anything, but it's
um, it's just a collection of poems for
different, different situations in life.
Like for example, uh, it's, it's, it's,
it's, you know,
broken down into categories
like thresholds, it's for your birthday,
(39:13):
for the traveler for,
so there's all these
poems for different, for different parts
of life and they are just stunningly
beautiful and some are just heartbreaking
and some are really
helpful and uplifting.
It's a really, he's a really just an
incredible, incredible writer.
And, uh, I would recommend that to
(39:34):
anybody through his poetic blessings.
John O'Donohue, uh, also ignites us in a
greater understanding of our innate
qualities and perhaps for the first time
we experienced the true sense of
belonging in this awful troubled world,
drawing on the heritage of ancient
Celtic thought and imagination.
Benedictus is ultimately a sanctuary of
peace and a gentle, illuminating
gift of life on our
path through this world.
I actually couldn't
(39:55):
recommend this more highly.
He is phenomenal.
Nice.
John O'Donohue.
Uh, here's another book called Annam
Kara, which is great as well.
Um, what is it?
Turn of us.
Is this, uh, what year is this from 2007?
Oh, okay.
(40:16):
And so this is obviously in, in, I mean,
it's in English, right?
But it's derived from,
uh, he's a poet and author.
Um, he died in 2008, but he just, uh,
like a native Irish speaker, uh, he's
(40:38):
described online as an Irish poet,
author, priest and Hegelian philosopher.
But he just, it's, it's just a beautiful
collection of poetry and has really,
like I returned to it a lot.
It's, you know, just to give context to
certain situations and stuff.
So yeah, really beautiful.
Awesome.
There you go.
(40:59):
Look at that.
Number 50, number 50,
hidden gem, everyone.
Way to land the dismount.
Uh, all right, there you go.
Well, this is it.
Uh, I hope you enjoyed the episode.
We'll see you next week.
We have some big guests coming up.
So it's an exciting time.
See you next time.
See you next time.
All right, welcome to the Actors Guide to
the Underworld podcast where we talk
about acting in Hollywood
and why people understand
I'm E-Kan SooNG and this is...
Rían Sheehy Kelly, what's happening?
What's up, buddy?
Follow us wherever you find your podcasts
at Actors Guide Podcasts. We're on all
social media for fun
clips during the week.
Follow Actors Guide Podcast.
Leave us a review, leave us a like. We
(01:53):
got a new review last
week. It was very...
That was a good one,
wasn't it? I just saw that.
Yeah, old friend.
We reconnected through
this podcast, so a shout out.
Who did say that my voice sounded like
ASMR, so I'm gonna talk like
this for the rest of the day.
Oh, there you go. Yeah,
you did get a shout out.
Welcome to the Actors Guide to the End of the World.
(02:13):
On the episode today, this is episode
number 50, we have a little look back at
the past episodes, our favorite bits.
We talk about things that we thought we
really got right. We talk about things
that we felt that we got wrong.
Yeah, we talk about goals
in acting and in life and...
Bits that still resonate with us. So this
(02:35):
is big episode number 50. I'll put in
crowd applause sounds and...
Away we go.
I didn't know what you
were gonna say there.
Just sit back and relax
and enjoy the episode.
And today's show is brought to you by...
Tired of looking up at your romantic
lead? Need a step letter or
kiss your romantic co-star?
Tired of just being Danny DeVito in twins
and not Arnold Schwarzenegger in twins?
(02:57):
Give yourself a boost
with Hollywood Heels Insoles.
You're gonna go from Tom Cruise to Terry
Crews. Now in Crocs.
This is a special week,
everyone. This is episode 50.
The big fire.
I didn't want to make a big deal about
this, but I'm wearing buttons and a
collar. I dressed up nice for this.
Oh, you should have told me, man. I was
actually thinking of that.
(03:18):
I was like, should I
dress up for this episode?
Do you know what, though? I have to say,
I took inspiration from Brandon Finn.
I mean, not obviously today, but Brandon
Finn dressed up for
our podcast, which was...
I thought that was really cool.
And that was a good...
I thought that was a good little reminder
to just, you know, dress to impress.
(03:41):
I completely agree.
And I actually think that's a thing.
That wasn't by accident.
Brandon Finn was dressed
in nine for our podcast.
And I think when he does
appearances, that's how he goes.
So it is a good lesson learned.
So this week I'm
wearing a collar and buttons.
I didn't want to draw
attention to this, but
(04:02):
I've been living out of a
suitcase for nine months.
I do not have a lot of clothes.
That being said, this is the debate is,
is I have one good shirt and we have a
few big guests coming up.
And I want to dress well for them.
He has three.
Yeah, exactly.
Three t-shirts.
Yeah. So this is a special episode.
(04:23):
The past year, this is roughly a year.
We just wanted to celebrate on episode 50
because it's a nice round number.
But I don't want to pet ourselves.
This is not going to be, you know,
patting ourselves on
the back for 40 minutes.
No, please.
But I will say our take on namely A.I.
has been pretty good.
(04:45):
I think we kind of jumped in
with the Ben Affleck episode.
That was almost a year ago.
Ben Affleck came out with, you know, very
articulate, very clear
points about what he thought A.I.
was and where he thought A.I. was going.
He said it was a tool.
It was going to be very
good for mundane tasks.
(05:08):
But as far as replacing the artists,
replacing the creator, it wasn't going to
happen, at least not any time soon.
And he wasn't worried.
Now, this is a whole year ago.
So that's a long time considering all the
things that we have seen.
Here we are, you know, a couple of weeks
after the announcement of Tilly.
(05:29):
And we don't see anything substantive
that Tilly is going to be winning any
Oscars anytime soon.
So should we have around the podcast?
To be honest, that's not too far off.
We could easily have her on the podcast.
You know, we didn't mention this.
I don't know if you knew this.
They turn off their comments.
Tilly has turned off her
comments on social media.
Oh, is there like a page?
(05:51):
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
100%.
So she was an Instagram
just like anyone else.
You know, maybe some people actually
thought she was real, but she had an
Instagram where she has an Instagram just
like any other, you know, aspiring actor.
And they had to turn off their comments.
Speaking of A.I., to all the people who
trust chat GPT implicitly, I was just
(06:14):
looking up the accuracy rate of it.
It's not great.
Like at times it's it's pretty low.
I just I know people who
trust it for everything.
And I'm like, I'm at that.
Yeah, it has no interest in being right.
It just aggregates information.
And this seems the most likely answer.
There you go.
Also this week, we're not going to dive
into it, but, you know, Sora to whatever
(06:35):
that is, it's just like basically this
app that just pumps your face and your
your likeness in a
bunch of crazy scenarios.
We were wondering what is the market for
wanting to see yourself in a bunch of
whether it's a TV
series property or whatnot.
That's what Sora to is.
So to is basically tick
tock where have you seen this?
(06:57):
No, it's it's kind of incredible.
I'm wondering what the market is.
I absolutely will not use it.
It will take your likeness and put it in
a bunch of crazy, extravagant, wild,
hilarious scenarios.
You could put your friends in your in
your sort to you can put them all in fake
scenarios and drag them all in your A.I.
(07:20):
slop and you can literally watch yourself
repeatedly throughout the day just going
through this wormhole
as if it's tick tock.
Do you know what that does it seamlessly?
Do you know what that seems like?
It seems like that's such a like a quick
hit, like a quick dopamine hit, like the
actual longevity of that, I
wouldn't imagine, is great.
(07:41):
Like how much
entertainment can you get from that?
It's a real novelty kind of a thing.
It's just a kind of, oh, what kind of
shite is it going to throw out now?
OK, that's I can't imagine
that's in any way sustainable.
And I agree.
But also, to be fair, it's like you are
speaking from a very grounded,
(08:01):
well-balanced person who
does not go on tick tock.
And I think that's I do not.
I think that's the point is we have we
have, you know, hundreds of millions of
people who actually actively are getting
that dopamine hit in similar ways.
It just they're not
watching videos of themselves.
But the other thing as well, I think it
does is like it's it's it's smacks of
like just further isolation.
(08:24):
Like if you're at home watching fake
videos of yourself in imaginary
situations, like what are you doing?
I mean, you're not you
don't learn anything from that.
You're not interacting
with anybody. Really.
That is a danger.
Well, yeah, because I've you know, I have
two nieces and I look at them.
And I worry about that
because I'm like one already.
(08:46):
You know, the older one is so phone savvy
and screen savvy because that's just the
world that she grew up in.
She knows how to use a screen.
And she's known since she was, you know,
two or three years old, she was able to
pick up on the how you operate a screen.
And I I don't know.
I'm so glad that I that I that I grew up
in an era where that wasn't an issue.
(09:07):
Before we move on, we were this was
supposed to be easy,
quick, quick topic before we go.
Before we move on and not to get too
dark, but someone
just mentioned recently,
have you heard of the Gen Z stare?
The Gen Z stare. You
don't know what that is.
That doesn't mean anything to you, right?
OK, so basically when we have, you know,
(09:27):
in the working world at this point,
you know, I mean, I'm not saying us
because we don't have corporate jobs,
but a lot of other people
are, you know, you're forced.
I know exactly right. So, you know, a lot
of jobs there, you
know, you have boomers,
you have millennials and then you have
Gen Z, which is, you know,
the one after millennials.
Gen Z basically grew up with a, you know,
(09:47):
social media and a screen in their hand.
And like like like you're saying anyway,
so people are realizing this huge
generation gap that we have.
And a lot of times older people are
having trouble interacting with Gen Z.
And so one of the things that was talked
about about this
interaction is the Gen Z stare.
(10:07):
So essentially how people were describing
because I didn't know exactly what it was
until we started talking about it.
A lot of times Gen Z will just stare at
you and and it's not rude
or meant to be condescending.
It wasn't meant to be anything. But the
thing is, is according to how someone was
explaining it to me,
they're so used to getting taught and
(10:29):
interacted with the screen that their
facial gestures or indications
weren't necessary to reciprocate because
they're learning from a screen.
So the point is, is when you're
interacting, say, for example, you're
serving someone at the bar and you're
giving someone good service.
Or if someone introduces you to a mutual
(10:50):
friend and they just happen to be Gen Z,
he's like, oh, hi, my name is Econ.
And then you try to relate and you try to
like, you know, kind of engage, but in an
open and vulnerable way,
you try to match and mirror.
Gen Z will just stare at
you a lot of the times.
It's not malicious.
That's just their base level because
they're used to learning and
interacting with the screen.
(11:11):
And also, I'll take it
another step further.
When you're asking stuff from A.I., you
don't actually need to be that polite.
You can say yes and you can say please
and you can do all that stuff.
But when it comes down to it, a guy is
going to give you
whatever you want and it doesn't.
You don't have to say
thank you or please.
I think that's kind of like what we're
getting at, that this is the next step.
(11:33):
And should we be worried?
I just realized you were
frozen the entire time.
No, I was just practicing.
That's my Gen Z stare.
I was going to say how long
I could play that out for.
You were literally frozen.
But yeah, there you go.
I'm going to see how
long it takes you to know.
(11:53):
That's crazy.
That's very unnerving.
Kids, sometimes kids do that, too.
Like kids will stare at you.
You know what I mean?
You're like, wow.
You know, you'd be like out in public and
a kid will just stare
at you because they've
no self-consciousness about.
And you're like, oh,
that's it's kind of unnerving.
All right.
Well, that was a that
was a fun and bright topic.
That was a nice little laugh.
(12:14):
Well, I was going to ask, what has been
what has been your
favorite part of doing this
podcast or what have you personally
learned or that says,
what have you learned that
sort of surprised you
about it that you enjoy?
OK.
You know, it's one thing to speculate
(12:35):
when we're getting ready to do it.
And it's another thing
to actually have done it.
And you're like, oh, this actually is
what it was like or what happened.
Yeah.
What were your expectations going in?
Where did I, you know, did you have
expectations about what
it was going to be like?
To be honest, no.
And I think that that
helped me out a lot.
You know, we're obviously not the first
people to do a podcast,
(12:57):
but, you know, I want to
say 50 feels like nothing, which is the
crazy thing is 50 feels
like we're just and this is
kind of like what I was expecting.
I felt like 50 episodes would be we're
just getting the hang of it.
And I feel like we're
actually getting the hang of it.
The other thing I would say is I don't
(13:19):
want to say it actually was like therapy.
But the actual doing of it
was like, oh, this actually.
This actually does a lot of good for me
personally, being able to
talk about things that I had
on my mind and that has nothing to do
(13:41):
with the audience's reception of it.
It doesn't, you know, on a base level.
Me as a person is enjoying this and also
finds its beneficial as
a person and as a human
being, aside from being as an actor,
aside from being your
friend, just on a base level,
(14:04):
expressing myself and being able to speak
about it in a safe environment.
And also the fact that some people might
enjoy it and get help out of it.
I cared very little about this is going
to make me feel good.
I absolutely never thought about that at
all or considered that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like that.
I like that.
That's a great unexpected result.
(14:24):
I think for me, like I like similarly, I
went in with zero expectations.
I mean, I remember we talked about it
when we had coffee that day and it just
seemed like, oh yeah,
that might be a cool idea.
And without really knowing what it was
going to look like, it's
been an enjoyable process
learning it and
learning kind of how it works.
But by far, I think my favorite part of
(14:46):
it love having guests on.
I really enjoy that.
Like learning about other people and
chatting to other people.
And like that has been, I'm surprised at
how much I really, really enjoy that.
I love it.
I just, not that I, not surprised that I
enjoy it, but how much I enjoy it.
It puts me in touch with people that I
wouldn't maybe normally get to spend that
(15:08):
much time talking to,
you know what I mean?
A dedicated however long, hour and a
half, two hours talking
and finding out about them.
I find that to be so enjoyable and
enlightening and it kind of
like opens up a whole new swath
of people like to talk to and parts of
(15:30):
this industry to learn
about and, you know, like
talking to Kirsten and Patrick and
Brandon and like, Sean,
everybody we've had on, I've
really enjoyed that, that,
you know, that process of it.
And I like the fact that there's like two
of us sort of chatting
to one person as well,
because we both sort of
bring something different.
(15:51):
But I, I, um, yeah, that's
been so enjoyable for me.
I really feel quite comfortable talking
to, you know, like I
really feel at home doing that.
You know, and we've
been really fortunate.
We, you know, we have people that we, you
know, respond well to, but also are very
articulate, you know, great stories.
(16:11):
In Kevin Welch's episode of like the
stories about football
and like his journey inside,
like all of that stuff is
really interesting to me.
One thing I do enjoy is when we talk
about topics and I sort
of discover something as
we're talking about it that I didn't know
was in there, you know,
that I didn't know was
in my head.
And I'm like, oh, that's how
I actually think about that.
(16:31):
And I don't know until
it's coming out of my mouth.
It's been a really enjoyable experience.
I feel like it's put me in touch with,
um, the sort of wider
community and the, the
industry sort of at large that I would
not have had the
opportunity to do, or just, I
just wouldn't have had the even idea to,
to get that deep into it.
So some of the union issues, some of the
(16:52):
nuts and bolts of it,
um, some of the industry
news, the things that are going on, it,
it kind of forces me to
pay attention to things
in a way that I really didn't before in
any level of detail.
And then I've had a lot of, you know,
we've had a lot of
feedback and I talked to my
friends or listened to the podcast and
they'll bring up topics
and they say, oh, I love
(17:12):
that conversation about this, or I love
that you brought this up.
And that's really cool.
Like that, that, that you would sort of
have an impact on other people as well.
Um, so I, I, yeah, it's been a really,
really gratifying experience so far.
A couple of those things, 50 episodes in.
I've never done anything
consistently like that.
(17:33):
And it was really good practice for me as
well to be like, Hey,
when it came down to
it, the mindset was every
week it's going to get out.
That's it there.
You know, I can fight it.
I can, I can complain
about it all I want.
Um, and, and I, and I have, yeah, I'm
just joking around,
but, um, you know, it's,
it's kind of like this
great mindset every week.
(17:54):
We were like, this episode's gunning out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And also like to entertain people, like,
you know, when you hear back and you get
feedback and people are
like, Oh, I love this.
I love that.
Like we're entertaining
people in some ways as well.
And that's really cool to me.
Cause I mean, that's what I'd love that.
You know, that's what I love about.
It's one of the things I love about
(18:15):
acting and I like entertaining people.
I like making people think I like make me
people laugh, you know.
Um, so that's a really cool.
Oh, when we were talking about the guest
interviews, I realized, you know, we're
busy, we have lives.
Sometimes we lose touch with friends.
Sometimes we don't have a chance to have
a deep conversation.
(18:36):
Uh, maybe you can chat with someone and
catch up with someone on coffee, but
this is a opportunity where, Hey, we can
have a deep dive conversation.
It doesn't matter if we knew the person
for 10 years or not.
Um, it's a very special opportunity to be
like, I got to know
someone on a deeper level.
That's a, that's a great point.
Cause I think, um, you wouldn't
ordinarily get to sit
(18:58):
someone down and have a
conversation with them for a couple of
hours about their life experience and ask
them in that way, because it's more of a
natural conversation.
Doesn't really follow that same path.
You know what I mean?
Unless you're like, Hey, I want to learn
more about you, but
it's more of a two way
street.
So I think the opportunity to get to know
(19:19):
someone in that way
is, is, is quite unique.
I like the contrast of talking to someone
I know and learning
more about them in that
way, but also then talking
to people I've never met.
Like I didn't know Brandon.
I'd never spoken to
Brandon before we shot it.
And I had a great conversation.
You know, I really enjoyed
that and learning about it.
Just looking past at the last 50, are
there any tidbits from guest interviews
(19:43):
that stick out to you now?
I'll start and, you know, I, and I, you
know, we kind of do this when we do our
little after party after the guest, but
you know, just because there was a recent
interview, I'm still wrestling with the
idea, you know, uh, Sean, Sean Sharma was
talking about this idea that, you know,
to have a certain focus, let's say, for
example, what is your goal as an actor?
(20:05):
And you could easily say,
well, I just want to work.
Well, you know, the analogy was, well,
you, you go into the
grocery store and you just
say, I want to eat.
It's like, what aisle
are you going to go to?
What are you going to make?
Are you going to make Italian or are you
going to make a salad?
You know what I mean?
So this idea of, you know, kind of
(20:27):
focusing your efforts, I
realized that I was with
how I approached
specific specifically acting.
I just enjoyed it.
I still enjoy it.
I enjoy doing drama.
I could do comedy.
You know, occasionally I might do a
sketch or a goofy little
thing, but maybe that's
just really how I feel about acting.
(20:47):
If I wanted to succeed, would it benefit
myself for taking a lane or do I need to
choose a lane with acting and a lot of
the other pursuits
that I have that I'm, you
know, doing online?
That's just something
that's been on my mind.
It's just that idea that, you know, that
stood out to me as well.
And I loved what he said about, you know,
(21:07):
if you want to be in a game of throne
style show, he's like, are you sending
your stuff to Nina Gold?
Are you, you know what I mean?
Are you seeking out the casting directors
and the directors and the showrunners and
the people that make this kind of stuff
and sending stuff to
them or targeting them?
Or, uh, that was really helpful for me.
Um, and it's an interesting topic to
(21:28):
getting very specific about your goals.
Because I think it really, really helps
some people to be hyper specific and it's
limiting for other people.
Just, just because, you know, just
speaking for myself.
So well, there's a certain amount you
can, you can be specific in this career.
(21:49):
But as you know, it's like, it takes a
lot of twists and turns and it's hard to,
unless you're creating your own stuff,
it's kind of hard to
know, to dictate what's
next.
Yeah.
Um, that's it.
That's a very tricky thing.
I have found for myself, it's a kind of a
combination of the two.
If I get too specific about what I want,
because my, because of the way my brain
works, it's, it's,
(22:10):
it's incredibly visual.
Like I, um, you know, I can, I can, when
I think of things, I
get sometimes get bogged
down in the details of them because I
have a very visual
brain and I can see all the
parts and then I start noticing issues
and problems and trying to fix them.
Yeah.
It gets burned into your brain.
Yeah.
I just, I just, because I see it so
clearly, I get lost in it.
(22:31):
And I also, and I don't know if this is
the case for a lot of people, but I,
throughout my day will get sort of a, not
all the time, but a lot of the day I will
get, um, like little clips of bits and
pieces of my life in quite clear detail.
It's like a, it's like a showreel of my
life just running and it can be from.
Sorry, because we, I remember you, you,
(22:53):
you mentioned this and
it never made it into
an episode, but yeah, explain, explain
this to me because
that's, that's the first
time I ever heard of this.
And I didn't know if this was a case for
people, but I will get like little
see comment, comment
shows that actors guy podcast.
So sort of randomly, uh, I will get
little clips in my head of various
(23:15):
different pieces of my life.
There's no rhyme or reason to it.
It could be from when I was five or 12
or, you know, could
be three months ago or
whatever, but I'll get like little
snapshots of my life
and they'll just come.
They're just, it's like, there's a little
screen over here and I can, I look up at
it every so often, there'll be like clips
of my life just playing.
Um, how many times do you see the same
clip over and over again?
(23:37):
I mean, not often, but I can access, I
can access different parts of my life
visually, very easily.
You know what I mean?
And if I, if I think of, I can think, I
can remember the details.
It's not like I have
a photographic memory.
I don't, you know what I mean?
I can't look at a page and memorize it.
You know what I mean?
Like that right away.
I'm going to get lost in this now.
This is what I'm talking
(23:57):
about with specificity.
With specificity, if I, if I get too
specific on what I want, I get caught up
in the images, I have to lean into the
emotion of it rather than a specific
image of it sometimes.
I think my real question to you, because
I know that you have a deep passion for
for acting is do you even have a goal?
(24:18):
Whether it's all, you know, sketched out
very loosely, or it's
very, very, very defined.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do.
I do.
I mean, I have several markers and goals,
um, that I, you know, that I have in my
mind, but, but again, it's like the
attachment to them, I have to be careful
(24:40):
with, like I can't, I can't get too
attached to a specific outcome, but I do.
I have a number of goals that, um, but
then try and enjoy
what I'm doing right now.
Obviously, you know, you don't have to,
I'm not pulling, you know, you don't
have to say any of these, but I think
that's kind of like what I'm getting
at is, is I don't like I, I
(25:01):
don't, and that bothers me.
It's like, it's bothering more me more
now after this kind of conversation,
as far as, you know, you want to eat,
what do you want to eat?
Um, it's bothering and this is kind of
actually perfect that we circle around
about this because it took us 50 episodes
and we look at our
careers very differently.
And this is kind of like a perfect
(25:23):
example of that because I have no goal.
And I'm jealous of you because I knew
that you had a very clear defined
passion and desire for the acting career,
but also I had a feeling you had goals,
whether you define them or not, you had a
compass directing you and I kind of
(25:43):
didn't, and I just enjoyed the ride and I
was so much far on the other spectrum.
And it did me well.
And to be honest, I very much enjoy life
and I enjoyed this career so far,
but that's the stark difference between
how we look at it and there we go.
Yeah.
And it's interesting in your case because
you have worked a lot, you know,
(26:04):
and I, I wonder if in the past, if that
lack of specificity has helped you in
some ways, cause there's less attachment
to an outcome, it might've made you more
free to just kind of go
with whatever's coming.
But if, if you've hit a point where you'd
like to set some goals, we'll give it a
try and see how it's, you know, see what
(26:25):
it does for your day today.
Cause really whatever goals you have, you
still have to live in now.
You still have to just
deal with the moment you have.
So I would suggest try it.
I think that's spot on because, you know,
regardless of where we, you know, we,
we, we got into acting
(26:45):
as, as for a reason, right?
It's whether you, whether you, you know,
there's some reason why we all like
wandered into acting and for me, this
idea of freedom and
not having expectations,
not having necessarily disappointments,
not having anything to hold onto, but
also being free to play in that putting
restrictions actually worried me.
(27:06):
It would have worried if I was going to
define too many goals, it actually would
have worried me that I would, you know,
be too tight, be restricted, et cetera,
et cetera.
So that's, that's what I'm, I need to
play around with those
guidelines and boundaries too.
So there you go.
I agree with that.
I think, I think there's a
bit of trial and error to it.
(27:26):
So, I mean, one thing you could do, you
know, is, is like write, write some
down or think about it in a way and then
see if that changes, see what that
does to your experience of it, like
there's no harm in trying anything.
Like there's no, this is nothing to lose.
Basically.
Yeah.
(27:46):
This is what I'm saying with that.
But yeah, I do have goals, but again, I
have to be careful with the
specificity of those goals that it
doesn't take me out of what I'm doing.
And I don't see the lack of them.
Like I don't want to live in the lack of,
Oh, I'll be happy when this,
because that's not, that's
not the point of them for me.
It's, it's a sort of an overarching
destination that I trust I'll get to,
(28:06):
but I have to really
just enjoy the process.
And I do.
And one thing I was going to say on the
visual stuff in the imagination is that
it used to hinder me in the sense that,
um, when I would get a, an audition or a
script or whatever, and I'd read this
character, I would already have an image
in my mind of what
this person looked like.
And it didn't look like me because I
(28:27):
would have an image of
who I would cast in this.
So it took a number of years.
And that hurts you.
That hurts you.
Well, it does because it's, you're
already thinking it's
somebody else other than you.
And it took me a while
to sort of marry the idea.
No, this is me.
I'm just, I just get
to play this character.
And I get to have this character, but
this character looks like me because they
have to look like me because they are me.
(28:48):
You know what I mean?
You know, that visual thing, um, it can
be a real asset or it can be a bit of a,
a hindrance in some ways, like, but it's,
it's overall, I think
it's a, it's a great
asset now, but I had
to learn how to use it.
I'd say, you know, it'd be, we'd be wrong
to not say anything that we were wrong
(29:08):
about. And it's nice to
follow up on this one topic.
When we were talking about the casting
directors watching
tapes for four seconds, we
did talk about this a good amount.
We actually did two episodes on that, um,
because we had different feelings and we,
we thought about it and, uh, we actually
did a follow episode on that.
For those that don't remember, there was
(29:30):
a viral clip about a casting director
making a bold claim saying that she
knows, uh, she'll watch an actor's self
tape for four seconds.
She'll know that's all she needs to know.
She was very bold about it.
She was almost laughing about it.
It got clipped.
It got blown up.
And there's a lot of things about that.
(29:51):
Um, that triggered a lot of actors, but
it was also wrapped
up into, it was a first
episode of a podcast.
They were talking off the cuff.
It was great to get views and gear it
great to get some virality.
I don't know if it was the virality that
they wanted, but it brought up a larger
question that happened
in the acting community.
(30:12):
Looking back on it, their job is not to
watch every minute of our acting.
And their job is also not
to be our acting teacher.
They are hired.
Ideally, hopefully on a good show and
they are hired and they're a good casting
director, they are
hired for their tastes.
They choose certain actors
that might fit on this show.
(30:32):
It's more the importance of your moment
before, uh, the character genre.
All of it needs to be crystal clear in
the first, however
many seconds, they might
give a note that was translated to them
by the people on high, the producers
or the creators, they might, they might
(30:53):
actually have great instincts, but that
is not primarily their job is please
direct us to a great performance.
They can help.
Hopefully that made any sense.
No, absolutely.
It did.
It did make sense.
And I think what I took from it as well,
and I changed my mind on it too.
I had a very emotional response to it.
One, you're right.
I don't know anyone else's job.
It's none of my
business, how they do their job.
(31:14):
It's also none of my business.
What happens afterwards?
I can't control how
somebody receives something at all.
So all I can do is, is, is do my best and
then just let it go.
It was a great reminder to me to, uh, to
be so specific at the top and to, to
nail that moment and not worry about,
cause I know that
like, and I've talked to
(31:34):
other actors who do it, oh, this great
moment towards the end of the tape.
I really liked the way I did that or said
that like, they're probably not going to
get there, you know what I mean?
Uh, so it was a good reminder to me to do
like, to, to, to just be dropped in from
the top and then also let it go.
All the actors that I know that are
killers, I'm talking about killers.
(31:56):
They loved the fact that
that was a talking point.
They loved the fact that they already
knew that off the top and they love the
fact that this is the bar and this is the
bar that I try to crush every self-tape.
And that was it.
I was like, this, this was, this was an
illuminating conversation and you have,
you know, everyone talking about the
(32:17):
details as far as no, I'm a really nice
casting director.
I watch every 13 hours of self tapes and
I watch every, and I'm not judging that,
but you start to wonder, it's like, okay,
who's really telling the truth here?
Poor and constructive, a practical thing
that I can do is this
is really important.
Crush the top of your tape,
(32:37):
know exactly what you're doing.
And you turn on the tape and it's like,
this is an actor who knows what they're
doing.
That's it.
If you're on social media, if you're on
Tik TOK, if you're on Instagram, imagine
how many videos you're swiping by.
Imagine how many photos of your, all your
friends and all your family friends that
you're swiping by, they
don't, they come and go.
You're passing by them in a blink.
(32:57):
And how do you stop someone from
scrolling past your video?
It's the hook.
It's the hook, something intriguing, a
great photo, whatever, what have you, you
have way less than four seconds to get
them to stop scrolling.
It's no different than, you know, reading
the first page of a book.
You, you open up a book.
(33:18):
All you have to do is read that first
page that might get you sucked in.
If that first page doesn't work, then
you're going to move
on to the next thing.
I don't know about that.
I'm with the book.
I'm not just reading.
Oh, I don't know.
I know that people don't read.
Let's go back to the Instagram.
I'm reading more than one page of a book.
It's like, no, this is shite.
Um, uh, I want to attribute
(33:39):
this to Steven Soderbergh.
Steven Soderbergh says, I just need to
watch the first scene of a movie and I'll
know if the director
knows what he's doing.
Interesting.
I mean, Soderbergh is
obviously a very skilled director.
I'm going to kind of
lean towards what he thinks.
It's an interesting thing to think about.
The last thing I'll say about that, that
cast director four second thing is
(34:00):
sentences like that, that, that generate
buzz and go viral and create all this
emotion, it does lack
any context or nuance.
A soundbite.
But yeah, but it definitely helped me
clarify the bit that I can control
and what's important and a good reminder
to hit it from the top.
Like you say, first scene of a movie,
first paragraph of something you read,
(34:21):
like, yeah, you want to be drawn in, you
want to be entertained.
You want to, you want to, as, as, as, as
Brian Stepanek says, lean in.
You want the audience to lean in.
You know what I mean?
So anyway, that was, uh, that was
something that, yeah, I changed my mind
on as well pretty quickly.
Once we started to talk about it, uh,
after my knee jerk reaction.
(34:42):
Yeah.
And I mean, that knee jerk reaction, a
lot of people are still feeling that way.
So it's, it's one of those things where,
you know, this is ongoing.
Our industry is just ongoing, evolving
what we deal with and
how we interact with it.
This idea of hidden gems.
We managed to do that 50 for 50 episodes.
We're terrible.
(35:03):
What is your experience?
Hidden gems was a, you know, a fun thing
that we thought that we do.
It's a little treat.
If you listen to the end of the episode,
it's something from our life that we
thought might be helpful, some little
tidbit, you know, it
could even be a joke.
It could be any little thing that might
brighten up or help your day.
And it's a little treat, uh, at the end
of the episode, we call it hidden gems.
(35:25):
I have a mixed reaction to this cause
sometimes, sometimes it's great.
Cause it forces you to look at your week
and go, okay, what was cool about this
week or what did I, you know, the hard
part for me is like, sometimes I'm like,
there was nothing like
different or new in the week.
So it doesn't have to be from that week.
It's just, it's hard to,
it's hard to track it down.
Um, what's your hidden gem for this week?
(35:46):
Maybe this will inspire me.
So I stumbled across, this was
recommended by a friend
on their social media.
Uh, this is a video, uh, very popular.
Podcast or creator.
It's called the diary of a CEO.
He interviews needless to say, I mean,
obviously, I mean, he's huge.
So you probably heard of him.
(36:07):
But this one video that he did with a
body language expert.
Now here's the thing you can easily say,
Hey, uh, how is your hidden gem?
This guy that has 12 million, 11 million
followers on, on YouTube.
That's kind of like not the point because
in this sea of content, it's chances
are you don't know what, what the video
I'm going to talk about.
(36:27):
You know what I mean?
So, um, I'm glad that someone suggested
it and shared it because I watched every
minute of it and I
thought it was incredible.
He brings on a body language expert.
She's been working with people for years
and just put out a book.
She's working on her
second Vanessa van Edwards.
She's the founder of science of people.
And, uh, she gives people science backed
(36:48):
skills to improve communication and
leadership.
She would call herself an introvert.
She's ideally dealing with introverts and
people who come to her classes and she's
teaching people about the
science behind body language.
Now, first off, actors
need to watch this video.
I mean, to talk about your base zero,
(37:09):
they talk about, you know, quote unquote,
resting bitch face.
Obviously that's a problematic.
She is resting bothered face, just so you
know, but little things like what is your
base zero?
What are you giving off to the world?
What are you giving off to your friends?
How does that affect your world?
What are some things, practical things
that you can change that are backed by
(37:29):
science that can make you more popular,
help you build friends.
This is not some result oriented.
You're trying to scam people.
It's just, this is what I've been telling
the world for my entire life.
And I had no idea I was doing this.
It's the way that I hold my hands in a
zoom meeting is indicating something and
it's bothering people and
(37:50):
they don't even know why.
I just think it's practical advice to be
like, Oh, this is interesting.
I can add this to my life.
Um, anyway, it's great video.
Uh, huge interview.
We'll put the link in the description,
but I'm, I feel like I'm a better person
and more comfortable learning what I
(38:12):
learned in that video.
Okay.
So while you're improving your body
language, I'll be
practicing my Gen Z stare.
I don't know if they actually talk about
the Gen Z stare, but
they actually might've.
So yeah.
This book, did I talk about this before?
Oh, okay.
This is new.
Okay, cool.
What is this?
(38:32):
Okay.
So this, there's a, an
Irish poet, um, who passed away.
His name is John O'Donohue.
And he is an
absolutely incredible writer.
The one of his books that I, that I
returned to a lot, um,
is called Benedictus.
(38:53):
And it's a, it says
it's a book of blessings.
It's not like a, it's not
religious or anything, but it's
um, it's just a collection of poems for
different, different situations in life.
Like for example, uh, it's, it's, it's,
it's, you know,
broken down into categories
like thresholds, it's for your birthday,
(39:13):
for the traveler for,
so there's all these
poems for different, for different parts
of life and they are just stunningly
beautiful and some are just heartbreaking
and some are really
helpful and uplifting.
It's a really, he's a really just an
incredible, incredible writer.
And, uh, I would recommend that to
(39:34):
anybody through his poetic blessings.
John O'Donohue, uh, also ignites us in a
greater understanding of our innate
qualities and perhaps for the first time
we experienced the true sense of
belonging in this awful troubled world,
drawing on the heritage of ancient
Celtic thought and imagination.
Benedictus is ultimately a sanctuary of
peace and a gentle, illuminating
gift of life on our
path through this world.
I actually couldn't
(39:55):
recommend this more highly.
He is phenomenal.
Nice.
John O'Donohue.
Uh, here's another book called Annam
Kara, which is great as well.
Um, what is it?
Turn of us.
Is this, uh, what year is this from 2007?
Oh, okay.
(40:16):
And so this is obviously in, in, I mean,
it's in English, right?
But it's derived from,
uh, he's a poet and author.
Um, he died in 2008, but he just, uh,
like a native Irish speaker, uh, he's
(40:38):
described online as an Irish poet,
author, priest and Hegelian philosopher.
But he just, it's, it's just a beautiful
collection of poetry and has really,
like I returned to it a lot.
It's, you know, just to give context to
certain situations and stuff.
So yeah, really beautiful.
Awesome.
There you go.
(40:59):
Look at that.
Number 50, number 50,
hidden gem, everyone.
Way to land the dismount.
Uh, all right, there you go.
Well, this is it.
Uh, I hope you enjoyed the episode.
We'll see you next week.
We have some big guests coming up.
So it's an exciting time.
See you next time.
See you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.