Our first guest! Oscar-nominated writer-director Kirsten Sheridan talks growing up on film sets, Cillian Murphy, and Hulu’s Say Nothing | Ep 31 - The Actor’s Guide to the End of the World

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey everyone, welcome to the Actors'

(00:01):
Guide to the End of the World podcast
where we talk about acting in Hollywood
in a way people understand.
I'm E-Kan Soong and this is...
Rían Sheehy Kelly, how you doing?
What's up buddy?
What's up buddy?
As always, follow us wherever you find
your podcasts at Actors' Guide podcast.
We have video on YouTube on Substack.
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Follow us on all social
Follow us on all social
media at Actors' Guide podcast.
Leave us a like, leave us a review.

(00:22):
Leave us a like, leave us a review.
It really helps the channel.
Today is a very special episode.
Today is a very special episode.
We're having our first
ever guest to the podcast.
Oscar-nominated writer Kirsten Sheridan.
Oscar-nominated writer Kirsten Sheridan.
She also has directed incredible films.
Has a hit show on Hulu.
has a hit show on Hulu, say nothing.
Say nothing.
has a hit show on Hulu, say nothing.
Also, a graduate of Mount Temple
Comprehensive School.
Comprehensive School, like myself.
Like myself.

(00:42):
Comprehensive School, like myself.
For the Americans, that's high school.
So we got deep Irish connections here.
So we got deep Irish connections here.
We talk about so many
things in this episode.
What it was like to work with a
25-year-old Killian Murphy.
You should see these casts in her films.
You should see these casts in her films.
It's really incredible.
She also talked about what it was like to
grow up on Daniel Day-Lewis film sets
with her father, legendary director Jim
Sheridan, directing.

(01:03):
We also talked with her about building a
filmmaking community,
which Kirsten has done in Dublin with the
factory, now Bow Street.
And she is launching
something similar in L.A. this summer.
So needless to say, Rian and I hit a home
So needless to say, Rian and I hit a home
run with our first guest.
We're pretty much just going
to quit after this episode.
Thanks and good night.
Without further ado, please enjoy this
Without further ado, please enjoy this
conversation with Kirsten Sheridan.

(01:24):
conversation with Kirsten Sheridan.
Hey, Kirsten. Thanks
Hey, Kirsten. Thanks
for joining the show.
Hello.
I don't know if Rian mentioned to you,
you're our very first guest.
I kind of thought I might be, but I was
I kind of thought I might be, but I was
like, oh, I'm excited.
I'm exciting, freaky.
Freaky.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
This is a huge deal for Rian and I.
This is a huge deal for for Rian and I.
Not so much for you, but
it's a big deal for us.

(01:45):
Yeah. Also, we've been staring at each
other's faces for six months doing this.
And it's great to have another human
being in here, let me tell you.
Yeah, yeah. So everyone knows Kirsten
Sheeran, an Oscar-nominated writer.
So they say?
Apparently so.
Yes, they do.
Depends who you slip at
22, you know what I mean?

(02:07):
So also, you directed incredible films.
The casts in your films, we're going to
talk about all these amazing
actors that you worked with.
Recently, you have a hit show in Hulu,
"Say Nothing," and then you
also teach acting as well.
So we have a lot to dive into.
Yep, yep, yep.
We're going to talk about your incredibly
strong neck muscles from wearing all

(02:28):
these hats, which is
quite unbelievably impressive.
I am just blown away by
the magnitude of the talent.
Oh my God. Well, honestly, when you say
the cast thing, it's the one thing that
I'm like, yes, I have
worked with amazing actors.
But I kind of feel like, to do it with
me, I'm just so lucky to have been
involved with all of them, really.

(02:49):
From people who are completely unknowns
to stars, you know, it's been great.
Yeah. I actually watched, I rewatched
"Disco Pigs" this morning to remind
myself, because it's been
a long time since I saw it.
What a film. My God.
So, Matt, when you rewatch, I mean, how
do you feel as an actor?
When I rewatch, I just like, I see every

(03:11):
mistake. I see it, like, not from the
acting, but from my part in it, you know,
I'm like, not enough
money, not enough time.
Why didn't we act, you know, but like,
what do you think, see as an actor?
I feel exactly the same about stuff when
I watch stuff back. I'll critique my
performance from the lens of who I am now
and what I'm wearing now, of course.
But from an outside perspective, watching

(03:33):
that film again, it's a
great film. It is mental.
And, you know, like, Killian, I mean that
in the best possible way, but Killian
Murphy, like, both of them,
they're both mesmerizing it.
Like, they're two super actors and it's
just put together beautifully. The
script, obviously, like, it's written by
Enda Welsh for anybody who doesn't know.
But it's brilliantly directed. I forgot

(03:56):
how it made me feel at the time when I
watched it. And I was
like, yeah, yeah, it is.
And just real quick for our audience,
Disco Pigs was essentially Killian
Murphy's first real major
role on screen, I believe.
Yes, I know. There's a tiny, there's a
tiny, tiny wrinkle in that one. He had

(04:16):
actually been in, I cast him in Disco
Pigs, but another movie was made just
before Disco Pigs, which was a movie by
John Carney, actually.
So, Killian played in that movie, but it
was in Disco Pigs that he kind of got to
play. Yeah, he had obviously already
played that character on stage so
powerfully that I think Disco Pigs was

(04:37):
like, you know, his real kind of
a meaty role that he could revisit, you
know? Yeah. Remember, like, kind of real,
there is something sort of otherworldly
about him on screen, particularly in that
film. He's just like...
One of the things he was so amazing at
even back then was, you know, I would
look at the playback on the monitor and

(04:59):
he would come in and look at himself, but
in this incredibly objective way where
he'd be like, do you see that?
I think I need to up that by like a
little bit and I need to take it down
there. And I was like, wow, I hadn't
worked with an actor at that point who
was able to kind of craft their
performance and watching the playback in
cahoots with the director.

(05:20):
And I was like, Jesus,
okay. So that was amazing.
Which is interesting because that kind of
brings me to, you know, a question
about... So both of you, I mean, at that
time, you were in your
20s when you directed that?
That is, I mean, to direct a movie like
that in your 20s, you know, where does
the confidence to direct something like

(05:42):
that at that age go, you know what, give
me the reins to this
thing because I can do this?
And you did, but like, did you always
have that confidence or was that
something that you sort of like...
It's always been a
big headed bitch, Rean.
I love it.
No, no, no. You know, it's really weird.
It's kind of like the trick for me, and
it's not even a trick. It's just kind of

(06:03):
like a happy accident.
I kind of feel this is an actor's
podcast. So you're going to think that
I'm like making this up to kind of make
actors seem like the best thing ever.
But I truly believe that like actors are
out on such a limb and it's a terrifying
place to be. And I kind of feel like my
maternal instinct really kicks in.

(06:25):
And I feel like I just want to like
support them and not make them feel like
they're doing the most terrifyingly
vulnerable thing in the
world, which they are.
And so I totally just forget about my own
like worries in that, you know, I'm just
like, number one, I had end a script and
I adored end as a person,
as a writer, everything.

(06:46):
And so I was like, I only felt like,
Jesus, I better get up and make sure I do
the best for the script.
And then when I'd be on set, it never
really occurred to me like, how do I feel
being 26 or 23 or whatever I was on set?
Because I was like, is Elaine okay? Is
Killian okay? Is the little kid okay? You
know, like, so it's kind of hand.

(07:11):
We actually talked about that recently
when we were discussing directors on set
and how they feel their role,
whether it was TV or film. Can you talk a
little bit more about when
you said the maternal instinct?
Is that kind of how you feel the
relationship is as yourself as a director
when you're on your set?

(07:32):
Yes and no. I mean, I've spoken to Rean
about this before. I kind of feel like
depending on the actor.
So like some actors want you to be, yes,
absolutely, the mother hen. Other actors
want you to push them.
Other actors might push you back and it's
all part of the actual process, you know?
And even sometimes they're not conscious

(07:53):
that it's part of the process, but you
better be conscious that it's part of the
process as a director.
Like I've had actors start fights with me
because they want to see that I can be
like, no, we're going to go
for another take and that's it.
You know, like and that's not my normal
happy place, but I'm like, oh, so you

(08:13):
kind of have to be a chameleon and
whatever is required, I feel, is like
sometimes you have to be the dad,
sometimes you have to be the mom,
sometimes you have to be the best friend.
Sometimes you leave them alone, you know?
So, yeah, it really is
for me just like chameleon.
Yeah, it requires a great deal of skill
and sort of just emotional intelligence

(08:34):
to be able to read people and to be able
to work with them in that way.
Right, right, right, right. Yeah.
Kirsten, would you say because going back
to Disco Pigs because that was like, you
know, mid 20s, did you feel like you had
that skill and you knew that that was a
skill even back then
on directing Disco Pigs?
The need to be a chameleon and kind of
work with specific actors and kind of

(08:55):
hone certain things
depending on what they needed?
I think looking back now, like this is
where you see the mistakes as a director.
I think I almost made the mistake of
almost giving line
readings in my 20s, you know?
I was like, you know, I was like so
specific to in the weeds.
And now when I think of it like I'm like,

(09:16):
I would never be that in the weeds.
I think that is just a learning curve of
of age and craft that like you learn
like, you know, that is not how someone
wants to be directed.
Yeah, I think as an actor too, you kind
of learn, but just as you go, you get
less precious about it because you're
like, oh, it's not it's not as you know,
I don't have to be as
specific as that in that way.

(09:39):
Yeah. And then like if an actor does want
a line reading like like like like that's
fine. I would do that.
But but I think in the kind of bigger
scheme, the one thing I mean, you know,
everyone always is like, what's it like
having a dad being a director?
But the one thing that I can really say I
did kind of learn by osmosis is is that
it's so OK as the director

(10:00):
to be like, I have no idea.
I don't know. What do you think?
You know, and then suddenly the crew are
all like, I think this and the actors
like I think that and everyone's kind of
involved and there's an energy going.
And then you might be
like, oh, that's exactly it.
What you just said mixed with this and
let's put like 10 percent on it.

(10:22):
That's what we need, you know. So I think
that was really helpful because I think
so many young directors are terrified
that they need to have all the answers.
And the more they let
go of that. I love that.
Those are the type of sets that I love
being on because in the moment, the
director might not
always have the answer.
But as a collaboration, everyone is
trying to solve the problem at hand and

(10:43):
everyone together can can get through it.
And I think there's nothing worse I can
imagine as an actor.
Like, again, I think
actors are out on a limb.
So they're kind of like
kids to me, like two year olds.
But in a good way, you know, the way you
can't lie to a two year old.
So like if you're lying to an actor
pretending, you know, the answer to
everything, I think it's nothing more

(11:04):
terrifying for the actor because they're
like, oh, they have a clue.
They're like acting all like, you know,
put this there, do that.
Like, oh, no, they're
pretending to be the director.
And that's kind of
breaks the trust. Yeah. Yeah.
You talked about having
a dad who's a director.

(11:25):
Also, sorry, just no legendary director,
legendary director Jim Sheridan.
So just back to the start.
So you grew up in you grew up in New York
for a little bit too, right?
So born born in
Dublin, lived in New York.
Yeah, we went to New York
for the 80s, which I go time.
Go talk to me. Yeah.
That was when Times
Square was Times Square.

(11:48):
You know, honestly, we
made a movie about it.
We didn't have AC.
Everyone was broke in the 80s,
but I think Dublin was a very,
Ireland was a hard place in the 80s.
And so even though we
were broke in New York,
it was probably more like
light and energy and colorful
than, you know, the things
that people were dealing with

(12:09):
back in Ireland in the 80s.
So yeah, my dad was in
theater for that whole decade.
And then in the 90s, he got into film.
So then we went back to Ireland
and it was a whole other ballgame.
That's interesting.
So do you remember much of New York?
Do you remember much of that time?
Yeah, yeah.
Obviously, yeah.
We'll talk, we'll get to "In America,"
which is a stunning film, but yeah.

(12:29):
So you've memories of
that time and how it was.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, I mean, you know, when you read,
then when you read,
when you watch the film,
you're like, that
didn't happen like that.
We didn't win the ET doll.
We lost the fucking ET doll.
(laughing)
Frank, hi, Anne!
Loads of stuff like that, you know?
But yeah, a lot of it is
But yeah, a lot of it is

(12:50):
very close to the truth
in a weird way.
Okay, so before we
Okay, so before we
dive into "In America,"
can you kind of walk us
through the first experience
you had on set?
Yeah, that's a mad one.
Yeah, that's a mad one.
Because yeah, it was in
the theater first, right?
And so I was the kid who
would sit in the front row
and mouthed the lines for the actors,

(13:11):
thinking I was a big help.
So I'd be like seven
years old being like,
in the front row, and
then they would say,
"Will you please put that
child up into the lighting box?
Because she is distracting us so much."
So then I sit in the lighting box
and I thought I was the kind
of master of the lighting box.

(13:32):
And those are plays
that your dad directed?
Directed and sometimes acted in.
Directed and sometimes acted in.
Okay. Yeah, yeah.
There's a mad, funny
story about him acting
in one of the plays, but
when my mom went into labor
with my little sister, and anyway,
I'll tell you that later.
Okay, all right, cool.
We'll get to that offer.
I think that's a story later.
But the first set
experience on film set was,

(13:54):
like it was a mad one.
It was Daniel playing
Christy Brown in "My Left Foot,"
and I was an extra, but I
got to like observe Daniel,
and I would help feed
him sometimes in my memory.
Maybe I made this up
the way memory works,
but in my memory, I was
playing his little sister,
and so at lunch, you
would need to help him

(14:15):
put stuff for eating.
And I remember once at
rap seeing him walking off,
and I was like, like I had
forgotten that he could walk.
(all laughing)
But what an incredible experience to see,
and maybe confusing for a
young student of that age,
to see method acting up close.
That level of it, which I don't know

(14:37):
that anybody gets
close to his level of that.
Was it weird coming back
to Ireland after New York?
Was it jarring?
Like had you gotten used to America?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
In New York, I was like,
we don't understand her accent.
And in Ireland, it was like,
you think you're fucking great American.
(all laughing)
Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(14:57):
Yeah, it was always a...
Yeah. And then you went, we actually went
to the same school,
same secondary school.
That's right.
If you're American, Mount Temple.
Nice. So small in Ireland, isn't it? Mad.
Yeah.
Gano and a lot of you
Gano and a lot of you
too went to Mount Temple.
Absolutely.
Sorry, just to keep it
chronological for a second.

(15:18):
So you came back to Ireland, your dad
starts working in
film, you're around that.
Yeah.
Were you kind of
immersed in it from then on?
Do you feel?
Pretty much. Yeah.
Pretty much like I was kind of do what I
do now with my kids.
Like I use them as guinea
pigs when I have a pitch.
You know, I'm like, sit down.
OK, so and then I go into a hole and

(15:38):
they're like, yeah, well,
you know, they say the wildest things,
they're so much smarter than I was.
But when I was that age, I was like
reading scripts and, you know,
giving feedback and then like, obviously
my left foot exploded.
And I was I didn't realize the impact.
I was like, what age was
I like, 13 or something.

(15:59):
So I didn't really get how big a deal it
was, you know, on an international scale.
You were like reading scripts and and
just immersed in all
that, even at that age.
Yeah, I would say from 13 on, you know,
like, because then it was like the field
and into the West and my dad actually
said for Into the West, he was like,
I'm going to write this movie and it's

(16:20):
about kids going
across Ireland on a horse.
So we're going to get a horse and go
across Ireland to research it.
And I was like, amazing.
And I still have not forgiven him that he
does had not done that.
We didn't get to do that.
Yeah, then once it got to
in the name of the father,
yeah, it all just kind of
took off, I suppose, you know.

(16:43):
Wow, what a what a childhood.
Can you talk about the first moment where
you knew that you
wanted to be a director?
Yeah, I mean, I was I was as a younger
kid, I was mad about
photography and music
and the concept that I could somehow
bring photography and music together.
So that was like my
like my goal in my head.

(17:05):
But I think honestly, probably the whole
Daniel experience and once I started
seeing work and
directly like on the ground
floor with actors and
just that whole dynamic.
And my dad did plays
even when he was back
in Ireland and my uncle's a playwright
and I was, you know,
the assistant
director on my uncle's plays.
And so I think just
seeing the psychological

(17:28):
work with the actor is
probably what got me really hooked.
You know, oh, that's interesting.
Yeah. What a great way in as well.
And it's like it shows.
Yeah, what an education.
And had you been writing the whole time?
Did you always write or was that
something that kind of I still know?
I know we talked about this before.
I still don't like to write.

(17:49):
I have to have a gun to.
Oh, wow.
I mean, I like it.
But like, you know, there's people who
like going to the gym and they're like,
I'm going to the gym.
You're like, what is wrong with you?
Yeah. 100%. 100.
I am one of those.
So you actually do gravitate more towards
directing versus writing?
I did gravitate towards directing.
And then then I opened the acting school

(18:11):
in Ireland and kind of got with with John
and Lance and Shimmy
and Jerry Grinnell and
kind of got immersed in that.
And then then I had three kids.
And so writing became like a
much more manageable world.
And being forced into the writing world,
actually, in retrospect,
I did so much more work at like finding

(18:31):
your voice in the writing world,
you know, like directing.
Like I was doing end display.
I was doing my dad's thing.
I was doing other people's stuff.
And now that I've been a writer producer
for the whole time, I've been in L.A.,
which is 12 years.
I'm like, oh, now I have a I have what I
want, you know, in terms of voice.

(18:52):
Yeah.
Let's if you don't mind, just chat about
the acting school for a minute.
What did that come out of?
I like really like I just you know, how
did that come about?
That came about because John Carney rang
me and was like, I'm bored.
And I was like, I'm lonely.

(19:13):
And he was like, me too.
Anyone else? And so I was like, I just
saw this movie called Kisses.
Let's call Lance.
Maybe he's bored and lonely.
So he got Lance and Lance was like, OK,
so the three of us kind of three
directors got together and we we ended up
in a position where we had a free
building in Grand Canal Dock for a year.

(19:34):
So it was a beautiful spot in Dublin.
Beautiful spot.
But like a 10,000 square foot building
that was freezing with pigeon shit
everywhere. And like it was like how why
would anyone want this?
And it was before Google and Facebook and
all those people moved into that area.

(19:58):
to like bang down the doors and then
nobody came but then a
wave of actors arrived and
we were like what do we do with these
people and so it just
happened that organically that
we created an acting studio which was
just a once a week like
meetup of actors that was
invite only and totally free like throw

(20:21):
five quid into the
bucket for the heat which we
can't afford and actually Jack Rayner was
one of the first people
involved in that actor
studio and then from the studio we
suddenly a year later we
were like shit we got to pay
rent on this building now so let's start
a year long actors
program and that's kind of

(20:42):
how that started.
And just so for those that don't know
this is around 2010 or?
2010, 2012.
Was this originally the factory?
Yes, exactly yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, actually mentioned Kisses there I
was actually I was a
location trainee on Kisses.
So I stood out overnight telling me where

(21:03):
to go for and I was
like you know what fuck
this I'm gonna still be
an actor I don't like this.
Yeah, location trainee is a real fun.
Can we go back to in America for a little
bit because nominated
for an Oscar for writing
how did that project come about and also
you know your father
directed that film Incredible
Best, Samantha Morton, Patty Considine.

(21:25):
Can we talk about how
all that came about?
Yeah, of course.
I mean I'll try and do this the shortest
version I can but
basically my dad always wanted to
do a story of us going to America and it
was this kind of fun
family goes to New York.
Oh look they've no money huh the 80s it
was it was kind of
like a funny just episodic

(21:46):
story and and he couldn't crack it
because he was like what's
at stake like what is the
internal journey what's the emotional
journey it's not about
family going to America like
who cares you know even though it was a
love song or a love poem
to New York and immigration
and all of that but there just wasn't
enough to get into it
you know meat on the bone I

(22:06):
suppose and so then he was like I'm going
to take he's going to
take his childhood and
marry it with his adulthood.
So my dad had a brother who actually did
pass away from a brain
tumor but it was his brother
and so he turned it into his son in the
movie so it was this
strange combo of you know

(22:28):
generational trauma brought into the
heart of the movie and
then it became a much deeper
movie about letting go of death and you
know starting anew and
and all of that kind of
stuff you know so yeah he used like like
the the the table the
things the things on the
table for our actual life but like

(22:50):
underneath it all was
was his his childhood.
That's brilliant so it had a lot of
emotional depth yeah and and
writing on that um you know
how was that for you how
was the process of that?
It was I mean this is the one thing with
this is what goes back to
you saying like Oscar nominated
you feel like such imposter syndrome

(23:11):
because I was like I wrote a diary of
what it was like being
12 in New York like you know yeah and my
dad is as he's very funny
about it because he'll say
like he wrote this whole script about
this main character called
Johnny and then he read our
scripts and he was like you wrote me out
of my own movie like I am

(23:35):
nowhere in this movie and we were
like well yeah you were at work like mom
does everything so you
know so we wrote him out of
the movie but then in actual fact like he
the movie but then in actual fact like he
took a combo of like things from my
script I think I was
like only 16 the first first draft I did
and then by the time he made it I was

(23:56):
pregnant so I was like
26 it's 10 years later so there was so
many iterations between
16 and 26 but the really
interesting thing which I think you guys
would be interested in the
most is that we had a blueprint
of a script and then he got Patty
Considine who plays him who plays my dad
to set and Sam Morton
couldn't come I think she was on Mission

(24:17):
Impossible actually she still had the
shaved head and I think
she was on set and so I had
And so some of the best moments in that
movie are improv moments
that my dad had a little
camera kind of like the
little kid in the movie.

(24:38):
He had his little video cam and he'd
throw me into the scene
and then he'd throw Patty
in and then he'd come in
and pretend to be Jimin.
It was really weird because I was playing
my mother and I was
pregnant with my daughter.
Wow.
She was.

(25:01):
and therapy bills it was it was next to
that. Yeah it was it was a
it's a brilliant movie if
anybody hasn't seen it it was the first
movie that I went to see
on my own in the cinema.
Oh yeah. I'm not quite
doing stuff on my own. I went I
(laughing)
Oh my God, that's wild.

(25:22):
Incredible, I'm not even Irish
and I felt so connected to it.
(laughing) There you go.
(laughing)
Well I think it's an
American immigration story too,
right, for like everybody, you know?
Yeah, 100%.
But that was just a
really interesting eye-opener
to see like how the
actors can contribute.
Like Patti brought a lot of his own ideas
and his own personal
experience to those improv's

(25:43):
and you know, that's again,
like I was watching going,
like everything is kind
of accepted and welcome
when it all fits together, you know?
Love that. Yeah.
Can you talk about how
long was the rehearsal process
and I mean, you said
the first draft was 16
and I guess it was made when you were 26.
So how was that 10 years

(26:05):
and how long of that was
rehearsal for the film?
I mean, I feel like most writers,
like when you can't crack it,
so I think he put it away for a long time
and then came back to it and was like,
I need to insert the
story of the dead child
at the center of this movie.
And after that, it kind

(26:26):
of started to, you know,
kind of gain some
traction and some energy.
And so the rehearsal process with Patti
would have been
really short, really short,
like only a couple of days.
Yeah, but even in that
rehearsal, it was like,
there's a scene where Patti comes in
and he confronts Jimin
and it's a great scene
where he's like, and that

(26:47):
was all in the rehearsal.
Yeah, yeah, another great actor, my God.
Yeah, for everyone,
Jimin Honsu, who was just,
he did "Amistad" but he
was essentially blowing up
around that time as well.
So the incredible catch
just for that film alone.
Yeah.
And Sarah Bouljour, right?
It was a Sarah Bouljour.
Sarah and Emma, yeah, two actual sisters.

(27:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's right, that's right.
Yeah, yeah, brilliant.
And we're gonna move
on, but for in America,
just the process you
nominated for an Oscar,
at what point were you like,
I can't believe this
movie's actually getting made.
(laughing) After you had the
script and dress for so long.
(laughing) I mean, I think that happens to everyone
on every movie, doesn't it?
Although I think, like for me it does.

(27:31):
I'm like, it takes you 10 years and then,
but I think my dad hit a wave
that was a really sweet spot
in filmmaking and I hate to say that
that wave is not there anymore.
I think there's always another wave.
So, it might be a different,
it might come with
different structures in it,
but I think like the

(27:52):
90s into the early 2000s,
if you had made a few good indie films
and you had a name that
you're very good working
with actors, it was like,
yeah, it was a different, right?
There wasn't the streamers,
there was like a way to get things done.
People were taking risks
People were taking risks
and all of that kind of thing.
So, sorry, I don't think
that answered your question.

(28:13):
No, I mean, that's great though
because we definitely
wanna dig into that later
because we talk a lot
about the industry on our show.
Just gonna say that's, you know,
like that, it is a big change.
We've seen it and you've seen it.
And like you say, I am
hopeful and optimistic
that there will be another wave
of sort of independent
filmmaking like that again.

(28:34):
In the interim, how have you found it?
Because, you know, on our end, it's like,
you know, what we're
going for is kind of different
TV and streaming is even different.
Being in LA right now is very different.
I don't know what your
experience of that is
as a writer and a
director and a producer,
but like as an actor,
there's a lot of pessimism
around at the moment.

(28:55):
Have you had to kind of,
how have you adapted to that?
Like how have you, like, does that,
how has that changed
your sort of day to day?
How you approach things and pitch things
that hasn't made much difference?
I mean, there's so many different facets
of that conversation, isn't there?
Like the first one that
comes to mind is mental health.
Yeah.

(29:15):
It is so rough, you know,
like when you're a creative
and you know, you're
in a transition period
or whatever the hell you
want to call this period,
waiting for the next
energetic wave, you know,
it's a tough time for sure.
And I suppose that's
part of the reason why,

(29:35):
like I love collaboration.
I think that keeps me sane.
So like, obviously I would
love a job in a writer's room,
but failing that, I
will start a writer's group
with people who are also feeling
incredibly isolated,
you know, and yeah, it's
just, that's part of what,
one of the reasons
that I would want to start

(29:56):
a filmmaking community in LA.
I mean, LA being one of the most diverse,
but also the most
disconnected cities on the planet.
And so yeah, I think it's crucial.
And I guess on a creative level,
it's really good and really bad.
I think they're really good of it.

(30:16):
I hate to say it, but it's like,
it really makes you dig so deep.
And that's not something I want to do.
Like who wants to have to do that?
It's not fun.
Exactly.
Absolutely.
But I think that's a really good point
because I have found that
like the sense of community,
when I say people,
there's a sense of pessimism.
I mean that because, you know,

(30:37):
I mean, I'm in a kind of class
and we've talked about
classes, me and you Kirsten,
like, and I think, you know,
at a time when there's not a lot of work,
I think that for a lot of people,
maybe that's the first thing to drop off
and I understand it from
a financial perspective,
but what it gives,
what it's given me is
a sense of community
that I didn't really have in the same way
before I was doing it.

(30:58):
You know what I mean?
I have a sense of community.
There's a sense of
we're all trying to improve
and to work, you know, to
get better at what we do
and to make things together.
You get to hear about
people making their own stuff.
So I love the idea of you
kind of laying the groundwork
to create this community
here because you're right.
I've never heard it described like that,
but you're absolutely right.

(31:18):
LA is widely diverse and so disconnected.
And it feels like now more than ever,
when a lot of people have left, you know,
there's a lot of uncertainty.
There's not a lot of stuff getting made,
but if a community comes out of that,
then that's a phenomenal thing, you know?
And I also think that's incredible
for our listeners to hear,

(31:39):
when you talk about the
grind and needing to dig deeper,
I mean, your career is incredible.
Oscar nominated all
the way back in America,
but now you have, we can
talk about Say Nothing now.
You just had a hit Hulu show
that's getting nominated for awards.
Your career has gone
through decades at this point.

(32:00):
So I think it's
encouraging for others to hear
that it's still a grind
and it's still really difficult.
And you still think no matter what,
like will I ever work again?
Like every time I start a new screenplay,
I'm like, do I know how
to write a screenplay?
Shit, how do I do this again?
You know, and it's

(32:21):
just the process, right?
Like it happens every single time.
And I remember someone saying to me
like about the different rungs,
like we're all just on
different rungs of the ladder.
Like my dad is trying to get financing
for whatever movie he's
trying to make right now.
I'm trying to get financing.
You know, the person that
might come to me for mentorship

(32:42):
is trying to get financing for a movie.
We're all trying to keep our energy up.
Like there really is no
golden key, no golden moment.
And if there is, it
will probably disappear.
Like so like, you know,
unless you're one of 1%
of people who just are always working,
like I feel like you
have to be really careful
that you don't say to

(33:03):
yourself, like when I get there,
I will have made it, you
know, when I get there.
Cause it kind of, you're
just constantly on a ladder,
no matter what rung you're on, you know?
And that's not a bad thing.
So yeah.
Not at all, not at all.
Hearing other people,
I like talking to you
and talking to other actors about it,
like really helps you.

(33:23):
It helps me understand
that where I'm like, okay,
we're all just doing this stuff.
And I get to sort of just be grateful
for what I'm doing right now and go,
this is just the thing
that I'm doing right now.
It's not, happiness
is not far off in some,
cause the goalposts move all the time.
Yeah, all the time, exactly.
But I think creatively what
it's done, which is, you know,
again, like I'm
thankful for it, but it's,
it's like being thankful

(33:44):
for like the hardest thing
in the world as well, because, you know,
there's so much noise now as a writer,
you have to have a
voice that is so distinct
and also can't be, can't be a device.
It can't be like, you know,
like style over substance.
So like, yeah, it has to be authentic.
And like so deep that

(34:05):
it can like break through
the amount of competition and
the same as an actor, right?
So like, it's a lot to ask
of a person to dig that deep,
but that's where we are, unfortunately.
Yeah, yeah.
I heard someone say the
other day, a few weeks ago,
someone, I heard it
somewhere where someone said,
adversity is a privilege.
And I'd never heard that before.

(34:25):
And I'd like, I haven't
stopped thinking about it.
I'm like, oh yeah,
that's really interesting.
Like to be in a position
to have adversity in this,
especially in this kind of career is a
privilege, you know,
You know, I don't always feel like that.
I don't always feel like that.
If you can use it, yeah.
If you can use it, yeah.
Exactly, if you can
use it, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sometimes I'm like, what the fuck?
Yeah, what are we doing?
I know.
This might be a good time
to talk about Say Nothing.

(34:47):
This is a hit show for Hulu.
This is a hit show for Hulu.
Can you talk about
how all that came about
and what the process has been like?
Yeah, so, well, I guess it
came about because this book,
this author called Patrick Raden-Keeffe
Patrick Raden-Keeffe wrote it
wrote an incredible
book called Say Nothing.
It's brilliant.
I mean, I hadn't even read it.
I mean, I hadn't even read it.

(35:07):
And I can't believe like, as
an Irish person who's like,
grew up, you know, with all
these stories all the time,
like, grew up about
like hearing about the IRA,
hearing about the politics,
hearing about the British,
the occupation, like my dad
had made like multiple movies
about the subject matter,
about the subject matter,
and I had never read the book.
and I had never read the book.
And so, a writer friend

(35:28):
of mine here in Los Angeles
put my name forward
to be part of the team.
And so, you know, I went
through the usual process
of being interviewed
and sending in samples
samples and all of that.
and all of that.
And then we did a small writer's room.
I think back, maybe back then
they were called mini rooms.
I don't know, but we
did that for like 20 weeks
and broke the story.
And then there was only

(35:49):
four of us, which was amazing
because sometimes there's 10 people.
And so, yeah.
When you say broke the
story just for people
who don't understand that term,
what does that mean in writing?
I guess it means like we
knew we had at the time,
10 episodes, nine to 10 episodes,
and like how to take that 40 year history

(36:10):
that 40 year history and
and put it into 10 episodes
without losing the thread.
And I guess what Patrick had done so well
was pick out four people
to tell the entire story
of the North.
Yeah, it's incredible.
And a great cast as well.
And really, yeah, a
really successful show.
Yeah, I think the
fact that he took people

(36:31):
who were on the same side of the divide
is what was so smart.
Like it wasn't black
versus white, us versus them.
It was like, show the
victim, show the victim
and show the perpetrator
and see how it can affect
both of those people on a human level.
And that was just so welcome.

(36:51):
And that was just so welcome.
Now keep in mind, I'm a
silly American, right?
So I-- Oh, absolutely.
This is a really
This is a really
polarizing, highly political.
Can you talk about the response after,
now that the show's come out and what,
now that the show's come out and what,
I mean, obviously great
directing, great writing
and the show's getting great reviews,
and the show's getting great reviews,
but like personally,

(37:12):
but like personally, have you,
what has the response been?
Well, it's funny
Well, it's funny
because Patrick is an author.
I think he's an Irish background,
but I think he's from Boston.
And Josh, Josh Sedimer, the show runner
is from San Diego, I
believe, like a very California guy.
And originally I was like,
how are they going to get this?

(37:35):
How are they gonna
understand the level of complexity?
But I have to say like hats off,
I don't know whether it was
the ton of research they did
or whether just somehow they were plugged
into the characters in such a way
that it is a universal story of like
of like when you're in
when you're in an oppressive situation
that you then you make certain choices

(37:55):
that you then have to live
with for the rest of your life.
And that's a universal story
no matter what
conflict you're talking about.
So, I guess the response, yeah,
Yeah.
So, I guess the response, yeah,
So I guess the response, yeah,
one of the responses
that was amazing to me was,
I heard a podcast and I
can't remember which one it was,
but it was some young English people

(38:17):
and they were like 20 years old.
No, it was all that.
And I was like, to hear.
choice again. So far you're a 100% it was
great. Not that good. But to hear them
say like I had no idea of this this is

(38:40):
part of my country and I had no idea this
was going on or like this was an
eye-opener or like I felt like I under-
It is a new day.
Like I was kind of, my brain
is still in 1990, you know?

(39:02):
Like when I left Ireland,
probably like, you know,
or when we came back or whatever,
I'm still to some degree
burdened and privileged
with all of the information about the
past and they're not.
And so I was able to listen
to that podcast just like,
oh my God, it's such a
different time, you know?

(39:22):
Wow. That's really interesting.
I actually took part in a documentary
when I was about 14.
There was a documentary
made called "Hwen Pease Talks"
and they took, I think
they took like 10 of us
from Mount Temple, 10 from Belfast,
and then I think it was
like 10 from Warrington
where the IRA bomb had gone off.
Wow. And they followed us around.
We went to Glen Cree in Wicklow.

(39:44):
We all met up there and then
they kind of took us around.
We went up north, we
went to the Falls Road,
we went to the Shankill Road.
We met the Northern
Ireland Secretary at the time.
We met, was it, was it Mary
Robinson was president at that?
We met a lot of leaders, but we also did
like just activities
that teenagers would do as well.
And we talked a lot about the conflict.
And we talked a lot about the conflict.

(40:04):
And what struck me was like the people,
the kids in Belfast were
obviously like lived it
and were so well versed in it.
We had a fairly good awareness.
Everybody from the south had
a lot of awareness about it.
The kids from
Warrington didn't know anything.
They didn't even
understand why a bomb had gone off
in their town, you know what I mean?

(40:24):
They're not taught about it.
History in England is not
taught in the same way at all
as our history.
And they just were
clueless about all of it,
which was kind of a really
eyeopening for me at the time.
So it's great to hear that,
that people understanding
it now because of something
you know, that you've

(40:46):
created and helped create.
That's really powerful.
That's a big thing.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's, yeah,
there's so much to say.
If I start on saying
nothing, I'll just stay in.
Say anything, you'll be
like 20 years later and then.
(laughing)
(laughing) Two of us just close our laptops.
(laughing)

(41:08):
Like in 1983, do you know that?
(laughing)
But I suppose like ultimately, you know,
I mean, one of the amazing things,
like I think when you
look and step back from it,
you're like the fact that globally,
the Good Friday Agreement,
which was the peace agreement
that brought together the
North and South finally,
is kind of like seen as a
moment in global history

(41:30):
where like people who
are ethnically like.
of that, you know? Yeah, yeah, it was a
big deal. Yeah, I remember, I remember
even just the feeling
at the time and like the kind of, and

(41:51):
also economically at that
time Ireland was kind of
coming out of a shit period. We talked
about the 80s earlier, but it was like
the 80s was rough in
Ireland. And the 90s was a time of kind
of hope for want of a better
word, but it was just money
started to come into the country for the
first time ever, which we
lost our minds with for a little
while. I remember like, everybody was

(42:12):
like, I don't care, I'll
just throw this job away because
another one will be along any second now.
By a property of Bulgaria
and everything else. But,
but it was a really, it was really
optimistic time and
everything sort of funneled into that,
that you know, the Good Friday Agreement
was huge. Also Ireland went to
the World Cup in 1990 for the
first time ever. And then again in 1994,

(42:33):
there was just there was so much and I
remember it as a ton
of optimism at the time. I don't know if
you had the same kind of
feeling, but in my mind that the
90s was a real time of optimism in
Ireland. Yeah, totally, totally. Well, it
couldn't have gotten
much worse than the 80s. I would love to

(42:56):
talk about Ireland in the
90s. Sorry to spoil your
guy's party here. So I do have to ask, we
talk, we talk a lot about the
globalization of the
Hollywood industry or the film industry.
Can you kind of talk about your
experience now, now that

(43:16):
you worked on a Hulu show that obviously
it's shot mostly in UK, I
believe, right? Can you talk about
just what you're seeing on your side as
far as how the game has changed with
streamers? We can talk
about how there's an explosion of things
shooting in the UK, in Ireland. Well,

(43:38):
it's so funny because
like, it's hard to move to LA, you know,
you got to get a visa, then
you got to pay the LA rent,
then you got to be like, oh shit, my
friends live in Eagle Rock, which from
the west side might as
well be Galway, like might as well be
across the country or wherever like, so
you do all this to get

(43:58):
to LA and then everyone's shooting in
Dublin. So that's kind of
weird. But I suppose like,
I wish I knew more about the, you know,
the financial slash
economic policy side of things
and where it's all going and, and how to

(44:19):
glass ball for all of
that. But I suppose what I've
noticed more from a creative point of
view, because that's probably where my,
my brain first goes is
like, I remember being told a little
while ago in relation to
streamers that like, it has to be
completely authentically local and
completely globally
universal at the same time.

(44:44):
But then you see like a great show, you
know, and you're like, I
see exactly what you mean,
you know what I mean? And I mean, there
has been an incredible Irish wave, I
guess, when you look
at kneecap and even say
nothing and you know, some some

(45:29):
If you don't double down on it, like
what's gonna happen?
I think it's you're probably just gonna
kind of disappear into the into the
vanilla kind of mid, right? And so
So yeah
I'm kind of like more thinking more
extreme these days and then you have to
be careful that you're
not just trying to do shock
value extreme right so like it's got to
be authentically extreme and

(45:50):
whether that means like just
Extremely vulnerable like I feel for a
while especially with women that there
was this kind of we had to have
authentic
Vulnerability in the Phoebe Waller bridge
sense. So like she had to go out on such
a limb personally and be so exposed

(46:10):
I was like really is this that's the bar
like we have to go that far
Yeah, that's really
that's that's asking a lot
You know and there was then there was
like other like you look
at a baby reindeer, you know
Yeah, like I love that too. It's so good.
But like the mental health question
there, too, you know,
like I hope it's cathartic

(46:32):
Yeah, but yeah, you know, maybe it's
really difficult to I think it's both so
yeah. Yeah, that's a great point. I think
Yeah, because I you know
I've learned or have been told in the
last few years particularly being classic
the worst thing you can be as an actress
forgettable if you go in and do a
believable general performance

(46:52):
Yeah, you're nowhere. You're nowhere. If
you're not specific
either be comically bad
Or be, you know hyper specific and
memorable and make choices
So that yeah, that's I think that's the
same across the board.
Like yeah, it's funny
It's funny you were saying that because
incredibly authentic but
also incredibly universally

(47:13):
Relatable that's also in
America. That's that's kind of
It just so happens that now with
streamers and so many channels and
tick-tock and YouTube
There's so much competition and how do
you make your way above all the noise and
try to make a great piece of art?
So it's
So it's
That's the that's the million dollar
question, isn't it? Yeah

(47:33):
And the only answer I found is to like go
deeper into that level whether it's
cultural voice
personal voice vulnerability
You know
How far out on a limb you're willing to
go as a writer is exactly the same
question as an actor in my opinion
You know, I mean, of course there's craft
and you can learn craft to some degree
and I've been trying

(47:54):
to do that for 20 years
So I get that part of it, too
Like there's actors who can turn up to
set and do what you know, they're like
just genius craftsmen and women so
but I think if you're a
creator and you're trying to
Punch it like out of that mix, you know
the amount of people I do think there's

(48:14):
only one way to go
and that's inside right?
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I love
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I love
the fact that like you
never I feel like you never
Master it like no one's ever gone. All
right, I'm good now. I've learned
That's me. I've got it down like
everybody's still trying to get that
You know get whatever that next little
bit of that next level is
Totally totally and actually I've seen

(48:36):
the flip side where you get you get to a
level that you can't reach again
You're like, oh my god when I was 21 when
I was 32, whatever it is, you
know when I was eight years old
I did that, you know, like it's scary to
reach that moment where
you're like, oh, I guess I made it
And sometimes it's just who you were who
you were at that time
Like I often think when I came to America

(48:57):
the first time I was I
was 25 and it was 2007
That I did things that I
wouldn't dare do now out of sheer
Ignorance and like not knowing any better
ignorance is bliss. Exactly. Yeah,
there's a bit of that. I wish I still had
I remember seeing a Brian Cranston
interview and he was I think that was
that was one of them

(49:17):
You know just like
he's just in it for that
Three minutes and then after that it's
like I don't I don't care.
Yeah, I'm with the audition. Yeah
Yeah, and then actually we had we had
Danny DeVito once come to come to us in
the factory and he you know
He was talking about
what you're talking about
Rean like yeah
we were all pissed off and then Danny

(49:38):
DeVito came one day and like it was the
best day ever and we
It kind of saved the day but
it always lives the party up
He took like a picture of his foot. He
does this thing called
troll foot and I was like
He did troll foot in the factory this is
like absolute claim to fame now

(50:00):
But he talked about one of his first
auditions where he was like,
I'm gonna roll into the room
He made an entrance by just rolling into
the room and he's like
Be careful everyone do not try that do
not try that at home.
They need to be professional
So, so this is a perfect time can we talk

(50:24):
about the what you're building in LA and
your teaching classes
Yeah, well, I mean I'm
hoping to I guess like, you know
I'm basically starting quite
small this summer with some
Workshops that I'm doing a couple nights
a week with with actors
I've done a lot of research and
development about like what's working and
what's not working in LA and and

(50:45):
There's a lot out there and there's a lot
of gurus some I'm
sure are great, you know
but I guess
My kind of philosophy has always been
like if you've got 30 different actors
You've got 30 different methods because
that's just how I am on set
and so my thing is like kind of hand
selecting and curating

(51:06):
a group of people and
whatever that grows into whether it grows
into just a
filmmaking community whether I
Get an investor and find a building and
it turns into like an art center
like all of these things are kind of
welcome and I kind of guess I
Trust in the process that are organically
as long as I'm open to it

(51:27):
It will become exactly what
it needs to be for this city
Yeah, yeah
Like writers directors actors, it could
be informal. It could be formal, you know
All of these things all of the above and
so I've reached out to just
various places here in LA that that I'll

(51:47):
possibly partner up with and
And yeah, just have a have a space is
what would be great. I
Classes, I don't know that there's
community in the same way where people
are just kind of meeting and making
stuff, you know, right?
Like like like the factory like the attic
studio was you know at one
point in Ireland and yeah

(52:09):
you know
Yeah, it makes no sense. You're like
there's directors that just graduated
UCLA. There's the AFI Conservatory
There's the Sundance lab and then there's
actors sitting at home on their own
It's like this makes no sense
But why it's so easy to put these groups
of people together so that things
naturally organically bubble up and you

(52:31):
know again whether that's a formal
setting or whether it's whether it is
something that you know
You know, I can provide a space for and
I can provide a space for and it just
happens then that's
that's that's the goal
Yeah
Because I love that I heard recently
someone say don't wait for someone to
reach down and pull you up to their level
Make things with your friends, you know,
make things with your peers. They just

(52:51):
all come up together
You know like the Wes Anderson's and all
these people that like make things with
people that they they work
with over and over and over
again, I think that's so
So yeah, yeah, and I got like recently I
had a screenplay and it got like
had a screenplay and it got like
You know
They were like we're not making that and
the reason we're not making it is these
things these four things

(53:11):
And then we all went away and we were
like they're the four things we love
We're gonna double down triple down
quadruple down on those four things like
Four things that made it interesting so
So it's kind of like that like LA right
now like everyone's worried about jobs

(53:33):
Everyone's worried about all these things
political politics like we can go on and
on but it's now is the time, right?
When when your back is
When when your back is
against the wall to shift
Absolutely. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah
Well, we'll definitely have all the
details for for your
workshop in the in the show notes
And we're gonna talk a
little bit more about that
Would you say that though your workshop

(53:54):
that you're you're launching is kind of
an evolution from your
from the factory and and
both street and in in
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I guess exactly. I mean
that's my that's my that's my backstory
You know is is well just from sets from
theater to film to to the factory to both

(54:14):
Street and now I'm in LA
I'm like why not?
create a space where
Magic can happen
As you know a lot of our audience are
actors we'd even get to
Robin Williams
You know you worked with Kelly Murphy

(54:35):
when he's in his mid-20s Kelly Murphy
Were you ever surprised
that he won an Oscar? No
No way, absolutely zero surprise
Okay, like okay so written on the cards
You know at the same time though like
there's a lot of people I would feel that
way about who haven't yet

(54:56):
You know, yeah, there's a lot of actors.
I've worked it. I think Killian though
takes the craft
Incredibly seriously, you
know, like you can you can tell
from day one
He was like vicious in a good way about
about about pushing
back at but in a great way
You know, like like he
was he was the opposite of

(55:16):
Okay, whatever you say, you know and and
I remember being like wow
This is that keeps me on my toes, but
it's part of the reason I think why
It is that drive is very strong
Sorry, I sorry. I have
to ask so in in what way
Because both of you were
fairly young in what way

(55:38):
Was he able to viciously protect his art
and his craft but also not
throw you off or offend you? Yeah
Yeah, good question. I mean, it's kind of
like the way I would be like I have to I
wake up in the morning
And I think I have to
not fail and as words
I think I was aware I was so aware that

(56:01):
Killian did not want to
fail pig the character
So it's got nothing to do Achilles ego
versus my ego versus what
the director and the actor are
It was not that it was it was pig saying
like I can't do that and me
being like oh shit, right?
Okay, I have to listen to this
This is so so it was coming from that

(56:23):
place and I guess that's
the difference, you know
When it comes from an ego place, it's a
whole different story
And I'm sure you guys you know, you can
smell that a mile away
It's all horseshit and if we have if we
have to do that stupid dance then fine
But you know, I think if you cast
properly like that's my whole
thing cast properly and you'll

(56:44):
You won't be in that that
stupid waste of space, you know
Yeah, cuz I think that ego space is
underpinned by self-centered
fear always it's always always
But but sometimes covered
in so many layers that yeah
You're wasting hours of the cruise time
and the money and you're going. Oh my god
Yeah

(57:07):
I remember early on talking about ego and
like I remember very
early on Shimmy Marcus who
Kristen obviously knows well
I directed an ad that I was in and we had
to wear I remember how to
wear a shower cap in the ad
Well, I'm one of them we did a series of
stings for like the Simpsons or something
that hates me ice cream
So I do our shower cap and I was like, oh
man, I look like an idiot and he goes if
you're worried about how you look

(57:27):
You've already lost
My god, I was so embarrassed. I was like,
oh my god, he's right
So grateful to him for saying that
because I just it's just one of those
things that stuck in my
head forever, you know
So, uh, I have to ask about directing
Robin Williams. So August rush is another
feature you directed
It was a great movie Jonathan Reese Myers
Kerry Russell. Um, can you talk a little

(57:50):
bit about that experience?
Yeah, I mean that was
so I went from disco pigs
Which was a low-budget indie that like
was produced by you know
Someone who I was like, oh my friends are
doing this with me, you know, like we all
I felt like Irish people
we all know each other, um
we all know each other then
then the next thing I got was like a 30

(58:11):
million dollar Warner
Brothers budget with like a crew of
hundreds and I would try to run away from
the crew with like the actors and the
cinematographer and be like
They won't notice
Yeah, because you're so not light on your
Because you're so not light on your feet
when you have that kind of huge dinosaur

(58:33):
of a production, you know
You know like it's so hard to move that
Like it's so hard to move that like you
can't just turn around and be like let's
go over there, you know
and
That indie sense was
That indie sense was
something that that I really loved
um, but in saying all that like
but in saying all that like, you know, I
You know, I mean I
think I have an unlikely
unlikely
Trajectory and I think it really is like
trajectory and I think it really is like

(58:55):
Trajectory and I think it really is like
not many people have like like the good
Not many people have like like the good
nepotism factor that I have like like in
America had come out and um
and
and
and and and I think disco pigs I've
And and and I think disco pigs had
obviously come out and the
combo of those two things
Like so it's kind of interesting because
Like so it's kind of interesting because
it's like disco pigs
I was like, I feel like that was my work

(59:16):
and in America. I'm
like that's more kind of
I'm like, that's more kind of branding
branding slash marketing slash, you know
um
And so but both of those things are just
And so but both of those things are just
a reality that are helpful in this world
and so I think the combo of both of those
things is what got me in
the door for august rush, but
It was an interesting one because the

(59:37):
producer was the one who had
It was almost based on his own child
You know the moment where the the baby is
You know the moment where the the baby is
born and he's conducting
Was like a moment that happened for the
Was like a moment that happened for the
producer. So I was in
this interesting position of
of of like trying to bring the producer's
of of like trying to
bring the producer's vision
vision to the screen
to the screen
almost more than my own so like

(59:59):
I loved it. I loved it. I loved this
I loved it. I loved it. I loved this
acting. I loved the music
I loved being part of it, but it didn't
feel like an auteur
movie in that sense, you know
Um makes sense and I don't know if that
movie would be made nowadays

(01:00:24):
Yeah, so I don't know.
Like if you're trying
to make that movie now,
maybe you'd be making
it for like 10 million.
like 10 million. I don't know.
I don't know.
like 10 million. I don't know.
Yeah, yeah.
It's it's such a different
It's such a different
dynamic with the output.
So I was just gonna
say, do you guys like turn
on the streamers?
I won't even go there
on which exact ones,
but, and are like,
there's hundreds of movies
I've never heard of.
never heard of when did they make them?
When did they make them?
Who is in them? What are they about? They

(01:00:44):
Who is in them?
What are they about?
They all kind of look
the same on each streamer,
has their own particular brand.
And it's just like,
And it's just like, maybe they're good,
maybe they're good. But
what's going on?
what's going on?
Absolutely. There's so much noise. I find
Absolutely, there's so much noise.
I find it really hard to pick.
What is going on?
it really hard. Yeah, like I find it
Yeah, like I find it almost
impossible to pick a movie,
almost impossible to pick a movie,
specifically a movie because I think
specifically a movie,
because I think shows,

(01:01:05):
shows, you'll hear a lot more about shows
you'll hear a lot more
about shows sometimes,
because people are like,
oh, you have to watch this,
or you have to watch.
or you have to watch this.
It's impossible to find
them because there's like 20
there's like 20 different streamers and
different streamers and
channels you have to sign up for.
channels you have to sign exactly.
Exactly, exactly.
Exactly. So so to wrap up on this,
So to wrap up on this, because,
because so you worked with incredible
so you worked with
incredible actors, incredible cast.
actors, incredible cast, can you talk
Can you talk about how you
kind of used your experiences
Is to teach actors. And if you have any
to teach actors?

(01:01:26):
Is to teach actors. And if you have any
And if you have any tips for actors,
tips for actors, let's start with self
let's start with self tapes.
tapes. What are what are few things that
What are a few main
things that you look for
you look for or really resonate with?
or really resonate with?
you look for or really resonate with?
It's such a contradiction because I'm
It's such a contradiction,
because I'm like, I hate,
like, I hate I'm trying to talk about
I'm trying to talk about
teaching actors in a school,
teaching actors in a school. And I hate
and I hate the word
teach, I hate the word act,

(01:01:47):
the word teach. I hate the word act.
and I hate,
(laughing)
How am I supposed to
say this is something
that I'm interested in doing
when I can't even use the words?
So, um.
That's hilarious.
That's a good place to start.
You just don't like those three words.
Yeah, I don't like to
think of myself as a teacher.
I like to think of myself as
someone who just clears a path
for what you're gonna bring to the table.

(01:02:09):
And then acting obviously like, you know,
it's like how to not act, right?
So like.
Yeah, don't get caught acting.
Don't get caught acting, yeah.
So I suppose it is a
world of self-tapes, right?
Like, I hate to say it,
but I still do see self-tapes
where I'm like, I can't
believe they're not in focus

(01:02:30):
with bad lighting and bad sound.
Like, I know that that's so basic,
but I have to, it
must need to be repeated.
Like, that's wild.
(laughing) That's such a basic thing.
But I guess, I mean, I've
spoken to a lot of actors
about self-tapes and, I mean, I love them
because it takes me like,

(01:02:50):
it takes me just like
a second to get a vibe,
like maybe 10 seconds to get
a vibe off an actor, you know?
The only thing I, the
hardest thing for me
is when they're good at acting.
And so, you know, but you're like,
where's the real person
so that I can get a sense,
you know, like, I'm always telling actors
this one piece of advice,

(01:03:10):
and I actually don't know
if it's good for like career and audition
and casting directors,
but obviously you get your sides, right?
And the scene is usually one note.
Like, it's a scene where you're angry,
or it's a scene where you're breaking up,
or it's one of these things.
And so, I'm always like, how
do we put an arc on that scene

(01:03:31):
so that there's three
emotions that we hit,
very different emotions.
And even if it makes no fucking sense
that you would be smiling in the middle
of the breakup scene,
it still does because you're
now masking all of the pain
because you're smiling, right?
So, I'm always trying
to like, as a director,

(01:03:52):
I'm like, I can't tell
range in these self-tapes
and these audition
tapes because they're either
written bad sometimes, or
they're just a slice of a moment
that, yeah, you're angry.
I mean, the worst thing to see is a scene
where someone's angry.
I have no idea if you can act,
if you're just being an angry, right?
Yeah.

(01:04:13):
Yeah, we kind of call
that, it absolutely makes sense
because we call that sort of, you know,
where we take classes at those,
just call that like state of being,
you're just playing a
state of being, like angry.
And it's generally like from denial
And it's generally like from denial
to tapping into the
fear and vulnerability
and then to truth, you know what I mean?
Like, but those three
things are polar opposites

(01:04:34):
of each other, so at least you're showing
you can go from one to another, you know?
I love that, and on that note,
you said something about, you know,
you could tell if
someone is a good actor,
but you didn't get a sense of them.
How would you describe that?
Like, is it just
purely, is it kind of like
this sixth sense as far
as, I know that they have

(01:04:56):
an incredible craft, but also
I actually see their essence?
It's kind of, it's still
ambiguous to try to put words
to it in a way, right?
Right, exactly, and
like there's some actors
who are so good at what
they do that sometimes you're,
I guess they'd be more
some of the stars, I guess,
but you're like, wow,
like, it's so perfectly tuned,

(01:05:20):
but sometimes the
mistakes are all so interesting.
Sometimes things come
alive and that change,
so like I can appreciate the craft,
but like exactly, can I see the essence
of the actual person in
there somewhere, you know?
And like I do this
silly thing where like,
when I was shooting,

(01:05:41):
and especially when I did
this crazy experimental improv movie,
where I would roll on
the actors all the time
without them knowing,
you know, and then they,
we'd watch the takes
or we'd watch the edit
and they'd be like,
Jesus, that's a mad moment,
and I'd be like, yeah,
because it's five
minutes before I called action.
Like it's you sitting.

(01:06:02):
Amazing.
Amazing.
It's you sitting at the
back garden or whatever,
thinking about the scene,
and it's the most magical
moment because, you know,
you're just so in it.
And I would just, yeah,
I'm not gonna say what
my tricks were to do that.
No, no, that's great.
I think they appreciate it.
I was doing it out of the
corner that, you know, yeah.

(01:06:23):
And that's just
because they're so unguarded
in that moment, right?
It's very hard to be unguarded
with a camera in your face.
I worked with a director a few years ago,
a couple of years ago on a short thing,
Bryce Dallas Howard,
and she was telling me a story
about working with Clint Eastwood,
and he would do, he
wouldn't ever say action.
I never say action.

(01:06:43):
Like I hate saying action,
and I always do end boards on set.
I hate head boards.
I hate makeup checks.
I always work with a
makeup artist who's like chill,
who I'm like, no checks.
And she's like, no
checks, you know, like, yeah.
Unless there's like a
major issue, you know,
because it just all
adds up to this like moment
of artifice, right?

(01:07:03):
Where you're like, and go, be.
Yeah.
(laughing)
Yeah.
Yeah, and you go, be real.
And then the slap, you know,
like the sound of the board
and like the, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, totally.
I have to ask one more.
So when you're auditioning,
what do you think about
actors changing your words?
If you're watching an audition.

(01:07:24):
I personally have no
problem with that, you know?
Like, I think if an
actor is a real handful,
you'll hear about it
beforehand, you know?
And if they're worth
it, then they're worth it.
And you're like, oh shit, I
have to tell the producer,
they're gonna have fun here, you know?
But, you know, I mean,
I know I might be giving
the wrong advice because

(01:07:45):
I've heard across the board
how directors like are,
and I'm just not that way.
So like, I don't wanna
say like, but for me,
or a question or a I don't know what to
do here or do you mind

(01:08:06):
if I change all the words?
Like I'll be like no because I'll just do
what I want on this on the
day like I'm going to be the
one in the edit room making all the
choices like so there's
nothing wrong with letting people
actually you were asking about Robin
earlier Robin would always do three four
or five takes and then
he'd always be like just give me one or

(01:08:26):
two and I'd be like of
course and he'd go insane you know
and you know it was like he just needed
that that was his thing and
like imagine saying no no you
can't have your own sorry no way moving
on yeah yeah yeah too much
of your time but I'd love to
if you if you want to say anything about

(01:08:48):
your very exciting
upcoming project there's a few
I'm like oh there's a few of them well
there's one I was talking
about recently I'm I'm I've been
trying to uh do Grace O'Malley who's an
Ireland's kind of iconic
pirate queen uh her story of her
life and there was this incredible moment

(01:09:09):
in time where she met Queen
Elizabeth um and so it's this
it's this story of these two women in a
room together for like two
weeks a week two weeks and
there there's 800 years of hatred in the
room with them and they
managed to find a way through
as both of them as kind of equals and

(01:09:29):
leaders and it's about
motherhood and leadership and
vulnerability and wounding and all these
things so yeah I'm kind of
in love with that story so
that's something that I'm I'm anxious to
get off the ground next I
love that's exciting and it
speaks to what you talked about with Say
Nothing where you're kind
of zeroing in on on a very

(01:09:51):
personal experience that you know is is
also universal like that's
the that's the magic of it
I think and and the question now I think
being like is there a way to
have power and lead and not
turn into a dictator or uh you know like
is there a way to keep
your humanity and your soul

(01:10:13):
and your vulnerability and lead an entire
country like it's it's a
question like right now looking
at the world leaders that's it that's a
big question yeah tv data I know we're
trying to figure that out
yeah maybe we look to the past for for
people who could do it for a
moment so that we can learn
how to do it again and what's what are

(01:10:36):
the best ways to to stay in
contact with you we're going
to put the the website to your to your
workshop and your your your
own website in the show notes
perfect is that the best way to yeah
that's perfect yeah that's great kirson
shardin.net everyone
do do you want to do a hidden gem do you
want to do a hidden gem no
no this is great so kirson we

(01:10:56):
talked about if you have a hidden gem we
would love that and uh this is what i'm
doing right now what
i'm doing as people can't see i am
googling because i forgot
the name of it oh yeah no i'm
so excited for this one as well by the
way uh it's uh it's an irish
thing it's in our group chat
rian we have a group chat with 300 Irish

(01:11:18):
people we do of our closest
friends oh really how do you
get into that club you gotta be irish
just gotta be irish that's it irish in
l.a that's about that's
the only criteria all we do is talk about
tea and um different types of tea and
where to get the best
tea that's that's pretty accurate yeah
exactly but there's a place

(01:11:41):
that has um what we call a 99
uh which is uh which is an ice cream that
me and reen would
have had in the awful 80s
and in the 90s and then when we were
drunk in the 2000s you know
i got them for my kids now uh
you know in this decade but it's

(01:12:01):
basically soft serve ice
cream and you get you get an
irish flake which is a bar of chocolate
which from cadburys and
you put the flake into the
ice cream so it's a soft serve ice cream
with a chocolate flake in
the middle of it and yes
this can take up hours of of group chat
time i saw that you
mentioned it i saw that you mentioned
it i was like 99 i googled it real quick

(01:12:24):
and i was like oh i see now
and it yeah it looks delicious
absolute childhood staple i i know what
it is it's uh it's called
which is a very irish name it's
called smashed af oh wow and it's smashed
burgers it's in burbank
uh riverside drive and

(01:12:44):
burbank and it's burgers uh but with the
99s so burgers and chips wow
i didn't even know that was
there yeah i live i live very very close
by to that uh and it's
irish the established irish
owned i'm pretty sure it was going to be
a chip shop like actual fish
and chips irish i think but
then they went for the smashed burgers
and the 99s what a hidden gem i know

(01:13:07):
that's better than me
have you found because so irish chippers
are kind of a they're i
haven't found anything
haven't found anything
outside of the taste remotely close nope
and that's the end of the
podcast yeah thanks good night
kings i don't know if the king's head
shop maybe this is going to

(01:13:27):
be my hidden gem because i've
never mentioned it before but i do go
down there quite a bit
there's a shop in the king's
head pub in san jamonica which sells a
load of irish stuff there's
englishy stuff in there but

(01:13:50):
That's that's gonna be my hidden gem
because Kirsten has inspired me
I love that so we'll keep it LA local.
I'll throw one out. Um
So, uh, I'm gonna this is actually an
Italian name, but it's all on Tico Veneo
It's an Italian sandwich shop. Now.
Here's the thing. They actually started

(01:14:10):
one they it's it's from Italy
They opened one up in K town in Los
Angeles. I think they have a second
location in Beverly Hills
The thing is is I actually
tried it here in Manhattan
So there's a handful ones
in Manhattan. Oh incredible
My sister who's a diehard New Yorker sets
the best sandwich she's had in New York
and she's she's craving raving about it

(01:14:32):
So well, hey, there's one in K-10. I
believe there's one in Beverly Hills
I'll Antico Veneo and
authentic Italian deli sandwiches. So
Yeah, so we have three LA head and gems
everyone you guys need
These guys

(01:14:54):
Firing out free publicity like suckers.
We've been waiting for
free stuff one of these days
When I suspect you might get a free 99
that's let's hope let's go there and say
hey if I get one free 99
It's all been worth it. This whole
podcast experiment is all right. Well,
this has been great Kirsten
So thankful that you could do this with

(01:15:16):
us been magic. Yes. Great. Thank you guys

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Our first guest! Oscar-nominated writer-director Kirsten Sheridan talks growing up on film sets, Cillian Murphy, and Hulu’s Say Nothing | Ep 31

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Our first guest! Oscar-nominated writer-director Kirsten Sheridan talks growing up on film sets, Cillian Murphy, and Hulu’s Say Nothing | Ep 31