March 25, 2025 • 34 mins
Welcome to the Actor's Guide Podcast, Episode 21!
This is our Indie Film episode and we get to a lot of gems that didn’t make it during award season. There was also some backlash from crew members of Oscar darling, Anora. What really happened on set? And was Sean Baker anti-union? We get into the story and talk about the tricky line where independent film is today as well as why unions are so important for artists.
Also, they discuss how the film Sing Sing, the true story of inmates starting a rehabilitative theater program at the Sing Sing prison, experimented with a new financial model for their film - they paid everyone the SAME - all cast and crew, plus they got equity and points on the backend. The filmmakers are trying to revolutionize the film world and are launching a company to do it more. This is an incredible idea, and the guys will talk about whether it might be a sing of things to come for the indie film world.
E-Kan and Rían also talk about the milestone California just hit with upcoming film and tv production talks about everything you need to know about what’s coming in the Golden State and how you can help. Information on Keep California Rolling below - nothing is guaranteed and we need to let our state representatives know how important this is.
There’s also plenty of love for inspirational actors like Colman Domingo, and E-Kan and Rían get into a discussion on a quote from Meryl Streep - Are actors more Zen? And how has acting made E-Kan a better person?
This is a good one, folks!
Send us your questions actorsguidepodcast@gmail.com! Follow us on YouTube, Substack, and all social media @actorsguidepodcast!
Links:
https://keepcaliforniarolling.org/
Ekan’s video on California production https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHZgkUmSgZI/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
Sing Sing paid everyone the same - https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/sing-sing-filmmakers-paid-everyone-on-set-the-same-1235945503/
Anora controversy -https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/anora-iatse-union-set-1236162501/
https://www.indiewire.com/features/interviews/can-sing-sing-pay-equity-model-save-indie-film-interview-1235079671/
"Rust" Documentary - https://press.hulu.com/shows/last-take-rust-and-the-story-of-halyna/
Hidden Gems:
Bear Market Coffee in Dublin https://www.bearmarket.ie/pages/blackrock-coffee-shop?srsltid=AfmBOopW3nRPRTuOYiGPZriIFFgM2RpmB7Hu9Pe-fIpwrPaFU5YSmTmv
Dr. Bronner’s Salsuds
Time stamps:
(00:00) Intro
(02:55) California hits record
(06:28) Sing Sing filmmakers experiment with new pay model
(11:20) Why we love Colman Domingo
(14:25) Anora backlash
(19:45) Gwyneth Paltrow comments on Intimacy Coordinator
(21:43) Why we need unions
(27:20) Are actors more zen?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I knew at an early age, part of the
(00:02):
reason why I became an
actor is I had an inkling
that it was going to
make me a better person.
Really?
That is...
When I was secretly dreaming of possibly
becoming an actor without
any rhyme or reason, I thought
if I became an actor, it
would make me a better person.
It hasn't made everybody a
better person, I would say.
(00:23):
It's not a cure-all, everyone.
Hey, guys.
Welcome to The Actor's Guide to the End
of the World podcast
where we talk about acting
in Hollywood in a way people understand.
I'm your host, E-Kan Soong
and this is my co-host.
Rían Sheehy Kelly, how's it going?
What's up, buddy?
I'm good.
Follow us wherever you find your
podcasts, at actor's guide
podcast, and make sure you
follow us on all social
media, at actor's guide podcast.
(00:44):
And if you get a chance, write a review.
We greatly appreciate it.
So first up, we have big
news coming out of California.
A record number of film and TV projects
just got approved for the tax credit.
So that's huge.
That's a really good sign.
We also have a story that Sing Sing,
Oscar-nominated film, they
(01:04):
paid everyone on set the same.
And they're going to try to create a new
pay model for independent film.
We also have a story coming out of Inora.
There's been some
backlash for our Oscars darling.
There's reports from the crew that when
the film shoot turned
union, that Sean Baker threw
(01:26):
a hissy fit, in quotes,
possibly he was anti-union.
So not a great look for a filmmaker who
often does films about
marginalized communities.
So we're going to take a
look into what really happened.
So this is our indie film episode.
These are the stories from the Oscars
that didn't make a lot
of the airwaves, but we're
(01:46):
doing it this episode.
And we reveal the secret of the Bermuda
Triangle once and for all.
People listen to the end and go, God,
those fucking guys did it again.
I hate them.
That's not true, by the way.
We don't do that.
So if you're planning on listening to the
episode all the way through to hear about
the Bermuda Triangle, don't.
It's not true.
But if you like indie
film, keep listening.
And also, if you don't get make it to the
(02:08):
end of the episode,
we do have hidden gems.
Hidden gems is a little nugget.
We like to say thanks for
listening all the way through.
It's a little thing that we learned along
the way or we found during our week.
And we want to share with others that we
think people might enjoy.
And now, a word from our sponsor.
And our sponsor this
week is AI Headshots.
(02:29):
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(02:49):
There you go.
Jesus.
So this just got announced this week.
51 titles just got approved
for film and TV tax credits.
That's the most ever in the first round.
Yeah, go ahead.
So sorry, 50, okay, across the board.
Sorry, film and TV tax credits.
So exactly.
(03:10):
I was just about to bring that up.
So technically what we're looking at, we
have one couple of the
high profile projects.
There's one project with RuPaul.
I don't know whether that's TV or film.
The next movie from the Everything
Everywhere All At Once
directors, their next project
is one of them, which is really cool.
(03:31):
And a lot of independent films.
So out of all those 51, I think like 46
is indie films, which is cool.
I mean, to be honest,
that's actually another sign.
The fact that indie films
are blossoming right now.
We're coming off of a
Nora's, you know, award season.
So yeah, indie films
looking really strong.
(03:52):
We've talked about
Keep California Rolling.
We talked about Stay in LA.
Keep California Rolling is a movement to
keep productions in California.
They recently just lobbied over in
Sacramento, 100 members from the
Entertainment Union Coalition
talking to lawmakers and pushing them to
prioritize California jobs.
I don't know if they're correlated, but
(04:14):
it's a really great sign for California.
These productions are estimated to spend
$346.9 million in wages,
approximately $577.8 million
in qualified expenditures expected to
hire 6,490 cast and crew members.
I don't know if you know this, but is
that unprecedented
levels of production in LA in
(04:34):
the last few years?
Or is that kind of...
I don't know...
The record breaking part of this is the
fact that 51 projects
is the most that was ever
approved in the first
round of tax incentives.
So that's the record breaking.
As far as the amount of money, I'm not
sure how the money
works out because we got to
remember with all of these great
(04:56):
movements, we actually need to get it
approved by lawmakers
in California.
So nothing is for certain.
Newsom proposed $750 million for the film
and tax credit, obviously, of boosting it
up.
He proposed that last year.
So that's not...
I didn't realize that.
I thought it was a done deal.
(05:17):
We talked about...
I just did a video about this this week.
I'll put in the show description, but
those two bills that we
talked about a couple weeks
ago to improve the tax credits, that
needs to get approved.
Keep California rolling.
It's lobbying.
It's basically a bunch of members talking
about how important
California jobs are and
how important it is to California.
(05:38):
We're always going to be lobbying.
ABL, guys.
ABL.
Always be lobbying.
But the fact that 51 projects just got
announced and people are intending to
shoot in California,
it's great.
Yeah.
That's a big boost.
I often wonder how that
stacks up to other cities.
Like how many...
(06:00):
I must look at...
It's funny.
I've been meaning to
dig into the numbers.
So yeah.
Thanks for tuning in, guys.
We'll do some research down the line.
Exactly.
Thanks for listening to us speculate on
what we'd like to do.
(06:21):
So the Sing Sing filmmakers, they had a
revolutionary pay model
for financing Sing Sing.
They paid everyone on set the same, top
down, Coleman Domingo,
everyone, and all crew.
But also everybody got
equity, which is unheard of.
I mean it's crazy.
(06:42):
It's like...
It's like...
That's very, very rare.
Sing Sing was the true life story about a
rehabilitative
theater program at the Sing
Sing Correctional Facility.
A lot of the actors
were real former prisoners.
So just imagine the camaraderie and the
(07:02):
community on this set.
That just sounds like
a great set to be on.
And scale means the minimum that your
union will allow you to be paid.
As of the time of this article, for low
budget films, this is low
budget is between $300,000
and $700,000.
The SAG daily rate is $420.
(07:23):
For films with budgets below $2 million,
so a little higher, the rate is $783.
Part of their strategy and part of their
vision is it's usually
very vague how you determine
who gets points.
So on crew would usually never get it.
Smaller actors sometimes won't get it,
depending on what the production is.
So they wanted a system
(07:44):
that had transparency.
They wanted a system where if you worked
this many days during a
phase of production, you
would get that many points.
This has never been done before.
And so, and then there's a quote here
from one of the filmmakers.
Their quote is, "The other bigger thing
that we were trying to
solve was everyone kills
themselves for an independent film.
(08:05):
But then if the film is a success,
financially or otherwise,
only a few people typically
share in that success.
And the rest of the people are thanked
for their service and
they move on to the next
one where they kill themselves again."
The filmmakers were Greg Quidar and Clint
Bentley, who are also launching a company
called Ethos, who are looking to expand
this model and do this
for other independent films.
(08:26):
They also talk about how investors
usually get paid first.
The investors get paid 100% of their
investment first plus 20%
before those with creative
equity receive a penny.
So they created the split off the top
where 60% went to
investors first and 40% went to
cast and crew.
And then once investors got 120%, then
(08:47):
they split it 50-50.
So this is all an experiment.
They said it's less about financial
structure and more about mentality.
Everyone needs to be on board, including
Coleman Domingo,
including all the other investors.
And so this is a perfect example of this
tricky territory where
we're in for Hollywood studios
and independent films.
Their first film, they had 30 equity
(09:08):
holders on the creative side.
It was called Jockey, Sing Sing that they
had 80 and then it
sold to A24 out of last
year's Toronto Film Festival.
They were using this as experiment to
scale up and everyone
is getting rewarded.
Everyone is getting rewarded
for all of their hard work.
This is the tricky line that
(09:29):
we're in for independent film.
We talk about Brady Corbett making $0 for
The Brutalist, Sean
Baker, independent film
lifer, talked about you get paid your
minimum and then you live
off that for three or four
years.
And so this is the tricky territory where
what is sustainable for
independent filmmakers?
(09:51):
And Hollywood studios don't
really know what they're doing.
So hopefully this is
going in the right direction.
To make it harder is in the era of
streaming, usually films
would make revenue off of box
office.
Sometimes they don't make it to the
theater or sometimes
they don't get a good run in
the theater.
And then also they make money on DVDs.
Well if we don't have that, then there's
(10:12):
really only streaming
left and they don't see a lot
of revenue coming from that.
Also add this idea of ownership.
I mean how amazing is that?
Every cast and crew would
have a piece of ownership.
When the actors and the writers were
striking and we were
negotiating two years ago, we
were fighting the studios for part
(10:34):
ownership revenue sharing.
We didn't get it.
So this is how much,
this is how big that is.
The fact that they would get a piece of
the pie in the film's success.
I mean, yeah, I love
hearing stories like that.
I love if we're scaled up
and people started doing it.
I don't know.
(10:55):
You know, like I don't
know if I see it spreading.
But how cool would that be?
I know, I know.
I think people need to find flexibility
and basically find a way
out that's sustainable.
I mean at the very least I think this is
huge for independent film.
You know, I've been
listening a lot to Coleman Domingo.
(11:15):
I've been watching a lot
of clips of Coleman Domingo.
He has a wonderful, he's a great story.
I really enjoy watching his interviews,
but he talks about how
he wasn't making money
as an actor and he thought, "Well, this
is as good as it gets."
He was going from jobs
to his bartending job.
He's a great example of an actor who just
(11:36):
stuck with it and is now
getting great recognition
and great success.
But like, I had a number of years that
were just grinding away.
Like a lot of actors do.
But I love hearing those success stories.
Yeah, we talked about this briefly
before, but I'll never forget.
One of my favorite bits from him is
people interview because
he used to bartend and do
(11:57):
all those waiter jobs.
And people would be like, "Man, I
remember you when you
were a struggling actor."
His mindset, which says a lot to what
you're saying, is he
never had that story in his
head.
He was like, "Oh, I don't remember I was
ever a struggling actor.
I was never a suffering artist.
I don't remember that.
I remember embracing the journey and
(12:19):
enjoying the ride and all
that stuff and just working
my butt off."
So I think it's another
great story on mindset.
There's nothing better than working with
somebody who just like a
bigger actor or a bigger star
who just likes everybody, who just sounds
good to work with and
is very respectful of
everybody and friendly.
I heard a story from one of the drivers
(12:44):
yesterday on this
production that I'm on about a...
And I won't mention any names here, but
about a very problematic
actor on a job a few years
ago here, like just a nightmare.
He was telling me all the different
stories from set, which were...
(13:07):
Because that stuff gets around.
That's the thing.
Like when somebody acts in
that way, the news travels.
How do they expect to continue working if
that's how they treat people?
And it was a foreign
production in Ireland.
There wasn't an Irish actor or anything.
It was someone from overseas.
And it was quite...
(13:27):
For anyone who's trying to deduce who it
is, he was an Irish...
I'll never.
No, you'll never find it.
I mean, it may not have been male either.
I said actor, but I
meant that as a generic term.
Yeah, that's true.
That's true.
It's even more important, the camaraderie
and the community on set.
And I always believe that it goes from
the top stars down,
whether it's the director,
(13:47):
obviously, but also if it's a A-list
star, then they usually control the tone.
So I hope that they're good team players.
It's always so encouraging when you work
on a set that's really warm and friendly
and everybody's having a good time.
Like the production I'm on at
the moment is a joy to be on.
(14:10):
Like everybody's so relaxed and it's fun
and there's no stress, anything else.
And I understand that there are pressures
and there are time pressures.
This is too good a segue to Nora.
If you haven't heard, there has been a
little backlash
rumblings from set from a Nora.
There is a a online group primarily of
(14:34):
Hollywood professionals
that were sharing stories from
a Nora set.
I'm in the group and the thing is with
anonymous posts, you
have to be really careful.
This story got picked
up in Hollywood Reporter.
According to the story, I Atsi, the union
that represents most crew
members, they intervened
(14:54):
after there was a vote
from the crew to go union.
It was a surprise to a lot
of crew members supposedly.
They had negotiations
behind closed doors.
One of the reports said that Sean Baker
threw a "hissy fit" and was
colder to the crew afterwards.
Supposedly the producers fought tooth and
nail to avoid it going union.
(15:15):
There were other reports from other
members who said it
didn't feel like that.
They didn't describe it as a "hissy fit".
They said that Sean Baker looked
emotional and grateful.
They said that no one
complained about union wages.
Everyone felt like it was a typical indie
shoot, got paid fair wages.
So we don't know exactly what happened,
but we do know that it
(15:35):
turned union towards the
end of the shoot.
It could be and this is a big thing.
If the union crew is working non-union,
those hours that they're
working, they might not
get paid overtime.
Possibly we don't know.
(15:56):
Also those hours won't
go to their insurance.
That's the thing.
Yes, that's the key
because I saw that post.
I don't know if it's easier or harder.
We're not working for hours
to get our health insurance.
We're actually working towards how much
money you make on a side
project and you have to
get $23,000 a year to
(16:17):
make health insurance.
I thought it was more now.
Is it not more now?
Health insurance are
being provided by this.
Go ahead.
What is it?
$25,950.
$26,000.
Out of all of Sean Baker's films, we go
from Tangerine, we go to
Red Rocket, we go to Florida
Project, all these independent great
films that he's been
doing for the past 10, 15,
(16:39):
20 years.
Most of them were non-union.
Oh, I didn't realize that.
The only one was Florida Project.
Florida Project was a big movie.
Directors in the DGA technically can work
a non-union film, which is just bonkers.
That's already a whole other issue that
we got to deal with.
The non-union crew.
(17:00):
With a budget of $6 million.
Exactly.
A budget for $6 million.
The process started and they
essentially flipped the crew.
From the actor's perspective, a SAG
actor, let's say, is wanted by a
non-union production.
A SAG actor can require
(17:21):
or demand a SAG contract.
In that situation, and I think more
actors need to know this because I
learned this recently,
the actors actually have the power to
flip a production union.
Obviously, we're a little union biased,
but we want more productions to go union.
This gets tricky when you say that
someone usually works
non-union because we don't want
(17:44):
it to sound like they're
disrespecting the crew.
If we're talking about a non-union film
that you can imagine,
he shoots pretty run and
gun.
He has a very indie feel.
He used this as an example.
Actors were approaching real people and
(18:05):
he was getting it on film.
He would get them to
sign a release later.
He was using real people in a run and gun
scene in real crowds.
The issue was, he goes, "Do you know how
much more difficult
that is to do when there's
40 people around you and you just want
everyone to go away?"
He goes, "Come on guys, do we need the
head of transportation here?"
(18:25):
I'll just speak for an example.
I produced full on web series.
I shot short films and stuff like that.
First of all,
obviously, it was low budget.
The hard work was
just doing the paperwork.
That being said, it was important for us
to do the paperwork
because we were like, "Okay,
we want to play by the rules and also
(18:49):
being part of SAG, I
wanted to make sure it was
all kosher."
When you talk about anyone who's doing an
independent film right now, it's like, of
course it makes more money sense to make
things non-union
because it's so difficult.
It's so difficult to have all the
paperwork and have all the
(19:09):
regulations and you can't
be as run and gun.
I think the point I'm trying to make is
how you were saying
where everyone was just all
cool, common, and
collected and casual, here we are.
I can't even imagine what...
I'm sure Inoura was still a great
experience, but you can
imagine it's a little...
One of his indie films
might be a little messier.
(19:30):
That's a bad way of saying it and it's
sad because you're saying,
"Hey, all these regulations
and restrictions that are protecting us,
they kind of got in the way
because there's regulations
that this person has to be here."
Nicole Kimman just made a comment about
the intimacy coordinator.
She's doing sex scenes
with Kimmy Chalamet right now.
(19:51):
Literally right now, they're having sex.
I'm just joking.
Wait, it wasn't Nicole Kimman.
It was Gwyneth Paltrow, wasn't it?
Oh, my God.
I don't think it was Nicole Kimman.
Thank you.
Gwyneth Paltrow.
Gwyneth Paltrow is having sex scenes with
Timothee Chalamet and
she goes, "I'm from a
different generation.
This intimacy coordinator, you can back
(20:12):
up and I don't need your help."
Now...
The quote that I read today was she said
something like, "I'm from
an era where you get naked,
you get into bed and there's a camera
rolling," or something like that.
I might be butchering that quote.
That was the quote that I read.
No, that was another quote there.
Yeah, exactly.
So that gives you an idea.
(20:33):
Which is vital though, I think.
Right, but it's to protect people.
It's not regulation
for regulation's sake.
That one is vital to protect people
because it's such a
sensitive area and you've heard
horror stories of, I don't want to say
being abused, but like,
you know, they're pretty
much being abused on sets.
(20:54):
So I think an intimacy coordinator is a
brilliant thing to have on a
set and I think it's vital.
So I...
Filmmaker saying it gets in the way.
I think that loses validity when it's to
do with something as
basic as people's safety
in areas like that.
And so on top of that,
we should mention this.
(21:16):
Mikey Madison declined from having an
intimacy coordinator on the set of Inora.
Now it's up to her.
She was offered by the
production and she declined.
Now if you watch Inora, it's
about she plays a sex worker.
There's a lot of sex scenes in it and it
was up to her, but she declined.
(21:37):
And also to your point of why this is so
important, aside from
intimacy coordinator,
we're also coming off of Rust.
Rust is where the director of photography
got shot on set accidentally.
It was the Alec Baldwin feature film.
So that already right off the bat gives
(21:58):
you an idea of how
important and how aware everyone
is about union's
production safety and also unions.
And so I completely agree.
I completely agree
with what you're saying.
I mean, this is here to protect everyone.
Was that set...
Sorry to interrupt you.
Was that set non-union or was it a union
set that were just regulations?
No, that was union.
(22:18):
It was union.
That's what I thought.
That was union.
Yeah.
And yeah, corners were cut a lot in that
production, but from
what I read, I don't know.
But like, it seems like there were a lot
of corners cut and
safety was obviously not
prioritized.
But there is a Rust
documentary right now.
(22:39):
I'll put the link in the description.
If you talk to any of the crew members on
that, if you talk to
any crew members, they
said it's almost like required watching
for film and TV
professionals, the Rust documentary.
So I'll put a link in the description so
people should check that out.
Yeah.
Like ideally, every film is union because
(23:00):
it just protects people.
Well, really, on that
note, most films aren't.
A lot of them are studio films and
necessarily they're union.
But if you talk about like a lot of
horror films, I mean, the
fact that we didn't know
that most of Sean
Baker's movies were non-union.
I mean, here's the thing.
If you're if you're doing a independent
film for two million
(23:21):
dollars, a lot of people are
doing it non-union in
the woods of Kentucky.
And financially, that
actually makes a lot of sense.
Obviously, you want to make sure that,
you know, your actors are safe.
But a lot of low budget films are
non-union specifically for that reason.
They can't they can't
afford and do all the paperwork.
(23:42):
Oh, so how do they use actors?
How do they use union actors?
They're just that's a big question.
A lot of people are
working off the clock.
I want to say for big stars, there might
be a couple waivers.
Yeah, it just won't go to their SAG SAG
health insurance money.
You get kicked out of the union.
They got you. Yeah.
(24:02):
I don't know if there's any hard fest
rules on it, but I need
to find this out because
it's fascinating to me.
Compose a penalty for
working on your job.
Yes, potential consequences include hefty
fines, suspension or
even expulsion from the
union. SAG is clear about the fact that
there can be
consequences to the union at large
if too many members
decide to work non-union jobs.
And, you know, a lot of this
(24:23):
union stuff is is is messy.
But, you know, you can imagine coming off
of the two strikes where
we're being more informed
and everyone's more engaged.
And in America, you know,
pro union is a big deal.
It's been it's been making huge waves in
the past couple of years.
Obviously, now it's a little different
now that Trump is president.
And we'll see how that goes.
(24:43):
But it's very it's
become a very stuff is messy.
Yeah, it is because it's become a very
political thing where
unions are being sort of
demonized. Whereas, you know, organized
labor is the only power
that that people really
have. You know, otherwise you're
dependent on companies
giving you fair conditions and
(25:04):
fair wages. It's gotten harder and harder
to make a living in in
the entertainment industry
for a lot of people.
So go the unions, I say.
Fights power, man.
That's the other thing. It's like without
without union
minimums, you and I and other
actors, we all love to act.
So basically, we're like, you know,
honestly, if you pay me
(25:24):
fifteen dollars or if you just
buy me lunch, of course I'll do it.
So so basically we were we would all be,
you know, usually when
artists and money, usually
they don't mix very well.
So we need these regulations to protect
and have some standards as far as this is
sustainable and these minimums are there.
And, you know, the thing is, like,
(25:45):
because a lot of this job
is, you know, a lot of the
work you do as an actor is unpaid and you
pay for classes, you
pay for casting websites,
you get headshots.
There's a lot of cost involved.
And then the vast majority of the work
you do is essentially a
job interview where you
are just applying for jobs all the time.
(26:05):
And but you don't get paid for that.
So when you do get paid, a union ensures
that at least there is
a minimum rate that kind
of covers some of that cost.
I was talking to a friend of mine one
time and he's he did a
commercial and it was a big
it was a national commercial.
And he got I don't know, he ended up
getting about 50
(26:25):
grand or something for it.
And, you know, someone said, oh, yeah,
it's pretty good for a
day's work as in kind of
like, oh, must be nice for you.
And he goes, he goes, do you know how
many days I had to work
for that day's work just
to get to that day's work?
You know what I mean?
Good. You know how many days I've put in
that I didn't get paid a penny for.
So it's not, you know, people look at the
(26:47):
rates of paying out.
That's crazy.
And you're like, well, it's not when you
like add up all the
other things involved in it.
Yeah. Like, I don't know any other job
like that where the vast
majority of the work you
do for that profession is unpaid.
It's a high risk, high reward profession.
And that's why we love it.
You know, if everyone
could do this, everyone would.
But this is this is kind of like the
(27:07):
danger that we're playing.
I just saw a clip of Meryl Streep today
saying actors are very zen
because she said a lot of
the time you're not working.
And then when you are working, you're
completely consumed by that that job.
And then you're not working again.
And she said, so they're very zen because
they're they're they have
(27:28):
to be exactly where they are.
You know, you have to be OK with the not
working and then you're on
the job and you're like you're
consumed by that. I don't know if I fully
agree with that if if
actors are very zen when they're
not working. But it was
an interesting take on it.
Interesting.
(27:48):
Yeah, that that's that's a cool point.
I think that's a very
rosy way of looking at it.
But also, she's the
ultimate professional.
I think maybe it's it's it's we hope and
aspire to being more zen,
being able to deal with the
ups and downs.
(28:09):
And I you know, in a dream world as well
as Meryl Streep, you know what I mean?
But I think yeah, I think it it forces us
to try to be more zen if
we can handle this over
amount of time.
It's probably easier to be like that when
you're when you're in her position.
But I don't know, maybe
she was always like that.
It was just an interesting take on it.
(28:31):
And I don't think it
applies to everybody.
But it's an interesting idea that like
actors are very present in
what they're doing because
that's all they have, you know.
Huh, I guess it depends
on what people mean by Zen.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, one thing I will say is, is I knew
I knew at an early age,
(28:53):
part of the reason why I became
an actor is I had an inkling that it was
going to make me a better person.
And just imagine I had a feeling that
even my team, I'm not even
joking around, even in my
teens, I was secretly dreaming of
possibly becoming an actor without any
any rhyme or reason.
I thought if I became an actor, it would
(29:14):
it would make me a better person.
And I'm not going to lie, I was right.
Like it was forcing me to get on a call,
forcing me to be in touch
with my feelings in all the
weird ways.
I didn't know anything right or wrong.
And I didn't even know if I
was going to become an actor.
But I just had this
in the back of my head.
And so my point is, is,
is I was kind of right.
(29:35):
And I still believe it.
I think it can, you know,
change my life for better here.
And here me speaking, you
know, I'm not Meryl Streep.
I'm not a bajillionaire.
But I'm going to say that whatever I
could learn through doing this over
years, it probably did
force me to become a little more Zen.
That's a very self-aware kind of a month,
(29:57):
you know, point of view, I think.
And, you know, by better person, do you
mean like a more
well-rounded person, a more engaged
person or less of a bastard?
Because initially when you said a better
person, I meant, you know,
I'm a bit of a bastard, but
this will make me a better person.
(30:17):
No, no, yeah, not the latter.
So more engaged.
Yes, that's okay.
And, you know, loosely more
in touch with my feelings.
To be honest, I think it
actually might be a bit of both.
I think that being less of a bastard is
actually kind of more
of a symptom or of a
byproduct of maybe being a little more
balanced and a little more Zen.
(30:38):
I agree.
I just it's a really healthy take on it,
I think, and it's a
really good reason to do it.
Maybe a better person.
I love that.
Yeah.
And I think so too.
It hasn't made everybody a
better person, I would say.
I think you're...
I agree.
I agree.
It's not a cure-all, everyone.
(31:00):
It's not a cure-all.
So my hidden gem for this
week is just based on a...
Just because I feel like I've gone there
so often since I've been
home that I should just give
them a shout out.
But Bear Coffee in Blackrock, which is on
the south side of
Dublin, we usually go to after
swimming on a Sunday,
(31:21):
after jumping in the sea.
I say swimming, jumping in the sea for
three to four minutes,
freezing our asses off.
We go to Bear Coffee.
And the coffee is lovely.
It's right in the
middle of Blackrock there.
The coffee is lovely.
They let us sit there for hours.
Sometimes we'll sit there
for hours just chatting away.
And they're very
friendly and accommodating.
And they have a nice little outdoor
section at the back, which is covered.
(31:41):
And it's full of sparrows, which I
discovered the other day.
There's a lot of birds.
So it's like it's like drinking coffee in
an aviary that's populated by sparrows.
So Bear Coffee in Blackrock.
There you go.
Wow.
That's B-E-A-R, not bear as in naked.
It's bear as in the animal.
(32:02):
Bear Market Coffee.
We'll put the link in the description.
So my hidden gem, this is coming off of,
if you listened to last
episode, we did hidden
gems that were very health conscious.
And I just want to say, I did laundry for
the first time in a while.
I probably shouldn't say it like that.
But-
Your hidden gem is laundry?
(32:23):
Come on, man.
No, no.
Are you kidding me?
This is freaking Dr.
Bronner's suds.
Do you know Dr.
Bronner's?
Do I know Dr.
Bronner's?
No, I don't.
Oh, are you saying?
Okay, good.
So not only a lot of
people, a lot of people know Dr.
Bronner's, but I don't know if they've
actually did Sal's suds.
(32:43):
Okay.
Dr.
Bronner's is one of the most purist.
They're very open about what chemicals
they put in their, um, their cleansers.
So you can have like hand soap, you know,
you can use the hand
soap and, and, and it
doubles as shampoo and all that stuff.
I'm actually surprised
you haven't heard of Dr.
(33:03):
Bronner's.
So this is a, this is a huge gem for you.
So Dr.
Bronner's is everywhere.
It's in Target and all that stuff.
But Sal's suds is a biodegradable
cleaner, concentrated all purpose.
Okay.
So just to give you an idea,
the beauty of these things.
Oh, see.
I use their, uh, I use, I buy their, I
(33:25):
buy their peppermint and I buy their
lavender soap.
Exactly.
That's literally what
I use for body wash.
It's cost effective, but also has many,
many multiple purposes, but it's also
very clean and good for the environment
and supposedly healthy for us.
Right.
Uh, less chemicals.
Anyway, so this is specifically a
biodegradable
cleaner, all purpose cleaner.
(33:48):
The flavor is Siberian fear, uh, Oh no,
Siberian fur and spruce.
Okay.
When you say flavor, you mean the scent.
Don't, yeah, I'm not,
I'm not, yeah, exactly.
Send thank you.
Do not drink it.
Do not drink it.
Everyone.
It doesn't do that.
Um, so we have here, you
could use it for laundry.
You could use it for a
(34:09):
few drops for dishes.
You could use it to mop the floor.
You could use it to
rinse fruits and veggies.
You can use it to wipe patio furniture,
car washing, exterior windows.
Anyway, you could use it
to wax up a slip and slide.
There you go.
Dr.
Bronner.
Exactly.
So if you're a Dr.
Bronner's fans, uh, try the suds.
(34:32):
And the soap, the soap is great.
Try the peppermint soap.
That by our soap is brilliant.
The peppermint on the lavender.
I respect that.
Um, all right, guys,
that's our, that's our episode.
Uh, catch us next week.
And, uh, if you get a chance, leave us a
review, leave us a like,
and we'll see you next week.
See you next week guys.
I knew at an early age, part of the
(00:02):
reason why I became an
actor is I had an inkling
that it was going to
make me a better person.
Really?
That is...
When I was secretly dreaming of possibly
becoming an actor without
any rhyme or reason, I thought
if I became an actor, it
would make me a better person.
It hasn't made everybody a
better person, I would say.
(00:23):
It's not a cure-all, everyone.
Hey, guys.
Welcome to The Actor's Guide to the End
of the World podcast
where we talk about acting
in Hollywood in a way people understand.
I'm your host, E-Kan Soong
and this is my co-host.
Rían Sheehy Kelly, how's it going?
What's up, buddy?
I'm good.
Follow us wherever you find your
podcasts, at actor's guide
podcast, and make sure you
follow us on all social
media, at actor's guide podcast.
(00:44):
And if you get a chance, write a review.
We greatly appreciate it.
So first up, we have big
news coming out of California.
A record number of film and TV projects
just got approved for the tax credit.
So that's huge.
That's a really good sign.
We also have a story that Sing Sing,
Oscar-nominated film, they
(01:04):
paid everyone on set the same.
And they're going to try to create a new
pay model for independent film.
We also have a story coming out of Inora.
There's been some
backlash for our Oscars darling.
There's reports from the crew that when
the film shoot turned
union, that Sean Baker threw
(01:26):
a hissy fit, in quotes,
possibly he was anti-union.
So not a great look for a filmmaker who
often does films about
marginalized communities.
So we're going to take a
look into what really happened.
So this is our indie film episode.
These are the stories from the Oscars
that didn't make a lot
of the airwaves, but we're
(01:46):
doing it this episode.
And we reveal the secret of the Bermuda
Triangle once and for all.
People listen to the end and go, God,
those fucking guys did it again.
I hate them.
That's not true, by the way.
We don't do that.
So if you're planning on listening to the
episode all the way through to hear about
the Bermuda Triangle, don't.
It's not true.
But if you like indie
film, keep listening.
And also, if you don't get make it to the
(02:08):
end of the episode,
we do have hidden gems.
Hidden gems is a little nugget.
We like to say thanks for
listening all the way through.
It's a little thing that we learned along
the way or we found during our week.
And we want to share with others that we
think people might enjoy.
And now, a word from our sponsor.
And our sponsor this
week is AI Headshots.
(02:29):
Want to look like Brad Pitt?
And our sponsor this week is AI.
Oh my God, I don't know if I'm going to
be able to say this.
Want to look like Brad Pitt?
Would you look like an armpit?
AI Headshots got you covered.
Maybe it's Maybelline.
Maybe you're fugly, but thankfully
there's an app for that.
AI Headshots, it's
like you, but way better.
(02:49):
There you go.
Jesus.
So this just got announced this week.
51 titles just got approved
for film and TV tax credits.
That's the most ever in the first round.
Yeah, go ahead.
So sorry, 50, okay, across the board.
Sorry, film and TV tax credits.
So exactly.
(03:10):
I was just about to bring that up.
So technically what we're looking at, we
have one couple of the
high profile projects.
There's one project with RuPaul.
I don't know whether that's TV or film.
The next movie from the Everything
Everywhere All At Once
directors, their next project
is one of them, which is really cool.
(03:31):
And a lot of independent films.
So out of all those 51, I think like 46
is indie films, which is cool.
I mean, to be honest,
that's actually another sign.
The fact that indie films
are blossoming right now.
We're coming off of a
Nora's, you know, award season.
So yeah, indie films
looking really strong.
(03:52):
We've talked about
Keep California Rolling.
We talked about Stay in LA.
Keep California Rolling is a movement to
keep productions in California.
They recently just lobbied over in
Sacramento, 100 members from the
Entertainment Union Coalition
talking to lawmakers and pushing them to
prioritize California jobs.
I don't know if they're correlated, but
(04:14):
it's a really great sign for California.
These productions are estimated to spend
$346.9 million in wages,
approximately $577.8 million
in qualified expenditures expected to
hire 6,490 cast and crew members.
I don't know if you know this, but is
that unprecedented
levels of production in LA in
(04:34):
the last few years?
Or is that kind of...
I don't know...
The record breaking part of this is the
fact that 51 projects
is the most that was ever
approved in the first
round of tax incentives.
So that's the record breaking.
As far as the amount of money, I'm not
sure how the money
works out because we got to
remember with all of these great
(04:56):
movements, we actually need to get it
approved by lawmakers
in California.
So nothing is for certain.
Newsom proposed $750 million for the film
and tax credit, obviously, of boosting it
up.
He proposed that last year.
So that's not...
I didn't realize that.
I thought it was a done deal.
(05:17):
We talked about...
I just did a video about this this week.
I'll put in the show description, but
those two bills that we
talked about a couple weeks
ago to improve the tax credits, that
needs to get approved.
Keep California rolling.
It's lobbying.
It's basically a bunch of members talking
about how important
California jobs are and
how important it is to California.
(05:38):
We're always going to be lobbying.
ABL, guys.
ABL.
Always be lobbying.
But the fact that 51 projects just got
announced and people are intending to
shoot in California,
it's great.
Yeah.
That's a big boost.
I often wonder how that
stacks up to other cities.
Like how many...
(06:00):
I must look at...
It's funny.
I've been meaning to
dig into the numbers.
So yeah.
Thanks for tuning in, guys.
We'll do some research down the line.
Exactly.
Thanks for listening to us speculate on
what we'd like to do.
(06:21):
So the Sing Sing filmmakers, they had a
revolutionary pay model
for financing Sing Sing.
They paid everyone on set the same, top
down, Coleman Domingo,
everyone, and all crew.
But also everybody got
equity, which is unheard of.
I mean it's crazy.
(06:42):
It's like...
It's like...
That's very, very rare.
Sing Sing was the true life story about a
rehabilitative
theater program at the Sing
Sing Correctional Facility.
A lot of the actors
were real former prisoners.
So just imagine the camaraderie and the
(07:02):
community on this set.
That just sounds like
a great set to be on.
And scale means the minimum that your
union will allow you to be paid.
As of the time of this article, for low
budget films, this is low
budget is between $300,000
and $700,000.
The SAG daily rate is $420.
(07:23):
For films with budgets below $2 million,
so a little higher, the rate is $783.
Part of their strategy and part of their
vision is it's usually
very vague how you determine
who gets points.
So on crew would usually never get it.
Smaller actors sometimes won't get it,
depending on what the production is.
So they wanted a system
(07:44):
that had transparency.
They wanted a system where if you worked
this many days during a
phase of production, you
would get that many points.
This has never been done before.
And so, and then there's a quote here
from one of the filmmakers.
Their quote is, "The other bigger thing
that we were trying to
solve was everyone kills
themselves for an independent film.
(08:05):
But then if the film is a success,
financially or otherwise,
only a few people typically
share in that success.
And the rest of the people are thanked
for their service and
they move on to the next
one where they kill themselves again."
The filmmakers were Greg Quidar and Clint
Bentley, who are also launching a company
called Ethos, who are looking to expand
this model and do this
for other independent films.
(08:26):
They also talk about how investors
usually get paid first.
The investors get paid 100% of their
investment first plus 20%
before those with creative
equity receive a penny.
So they created the split off the top
where 60% went to
investors first and 40% went to
cast and crew.
And then once investors got 120%, then
(08:47):
they split it 50-50.
So this is all an experiment.
They said it's less about financial
structure and more about mentality.
Everyone needs to be on board, including
Coleman Domingo,
including all the other investors.
And so this is a perfect example of this
tricky territory where
we're in for Hollywood studios
and independent films.
Their first film, they had 30 equity
(09:08):
holders on the creative side.
It was called Jockey, Sing Sing that they
had 80 and then it
sold to A24 out of last
year's Toronto Film Festival.
They were using this as experiment to
scale up and everyone
is getting rewarded.
Everyone is getting rewarded
for all of their hard work.
This is the tricky line that
(09:29):
we're in for independent film.
We talk about Brady Corbett making $0 for
The Brutalist, Sean
Baker, independent film
lifer, talked about you get paid your
minimum and then you live
off that for three or four
years.
And so this is the tricky territory where
what is sustainable for
independent filmmakers?
(09:51):
And Hollywood studios don't
really know what they're doing.
So hopefully this is
going in the right direction.
To make it harder is in the era of
streaming, usually films
would make revenue off of box
office.
Sometimes they don't make it to the
theater or sometimes
they don't get a good run in
the theater.
And then also they make money on DVDs.
Well if we don't have that, then there's
(10:12):
really only streaming
left and they don't see a lot
of revenue coming from that.
Also add this idea of ownership.
I mean how amazing is that?
Every cast and crew would
have a piece of ownership.
When the actors and the writers were
striking and we were
negotiating two years ago, we
were fighting the studios for part
(10:34):
ownership revenue sharing.
We didn't get it.
So this is how much,
this is how big that is.
The fact that they would get a piece of
the pie in the film's success.
I mean, yeah, I love
hearing stories like that.
I love if we're scaled up
and people started doing it.
I don't know.
(10:55):
You know, like I don't
know if I see it spreading.
But how cool would that be?
I know, I know.
I think people need to find flexibility
and basically find a way
out that's sustainable.
I mean at the very least I think this is
huge for independent film.
You know, I've been
listening a lot to Coleman Domingo.
(11:15):
I've been watching a lot
of clips of Coleman Domingo.
He has a wonderful, he's a great story.
I really enjoy watching his interviews,
but he talks about how
he wasn't making money
as an actor and he thought, "Well, this
is as good as it gets."
He was going from jobs
to his bartending job.
He's a great example of an actor who just
(11:36):
stuck with it and is now
getting great recognition
and great success.
But like, I had a number of years that
were just grinding away.
Like a lot of actors do.
But I love hearing those success stories.
Yeah, we talked about this briefly
before, but I'll never forget.
One of my favorite bits from him is
people interview because
he used to bartend and do
(11:57):
all those waiter jobs.
And people would be like, "Man, I
remember you when you
were a struggling actor."
His mindset, which says a lot to what
you're saying, is he
never had that story in his
head.
He was like, "Oh, I don't remember I was
ever a struggling actor.
I was never a suffering artist.
I don't remember that.
I remember embracing the journey and
(12:19):
enjoying the ride and all
that stuff and just working
my butt off."
So I think it's another
great story on mindset.
There's nothing better than working with
somebody who just like a
bigger actor or a bigger star
who just likes everybody, who just sounds
good to work with and
is very respectful of
everybody and friendly.
I heard a story from one of the drivers
(12:44):
yesterday on this
production that I'm on about a...
And I won't mention any names here, but
about a very problematic
actor on a job a few years
ago here, like just a nightmare.
He was telling me all the different
stories from set, which were...
(13:07):
Because that stuff gets around.
That's the thing.
Like when somebody acts in
that way, the news travels.
How do they expect to continue working if
that's how they treat people?
And it was a foreign
production in Ireland.
There wasn't an Irish actor or anything.
It was someone from overseas.
And it was quite...
(13:27):
For anyone who's trying to deduce who it
is, he was an Irish...
I'll never.
No, you'll never find it.
I mean, it may not have been male either.
I said actor, but I
meant that as a generic term.
Yeah, that's true.
That's true.
It's even more important, the camaraderie
and the community on set.
And I always believe that it goes from
the top stars down,
whether it's the director,
(13:47):
obviously, but also if it's a A-list
star, then they usually control the tone.
So I hope that they're good team players.
It's always so encouraging when you work
on a set that's really warm and friendly
and everybody's having a good time.
Like the production I'm on at
the moment is a joy to be on.
(14:10):
Like everybody's so relaxed and it's fun
and there's no stress, anything else.
And I understand that there are pressures
and there are time pressures.
This is too good a segue to Nora.
If you haven't heard, there has been a
little backlash
rumblings from set from a Nora.
There is a a online group primarily of
(14:34):
Hollywood professionals
that were sharing stories from
a Nora set.
I'm in the group and the thing is with
anonymous posts, you
have to be really careful.
This story got picked
up in Hollywood Reporter.
According to the story, I Atsi, the union
that represents most crew
members, they intervened
(14:54):
after there was a vote
from the crew to go union.
It was a surprise to a lot
of crew members supposedly.
They had negotiations
behind closed doors.
One of the reports said that Sean Baker
threw a "hissy fit" and was
colder to the crew afterwards.
Supposedly the producers fought tooth and
nail to avoid it going union.
(15:15):
There were other reports from other
members who said it
didn't feel like that.
They didn't describe it as a "hissy fit".
They said that Sean Baker looked
emotional and grateful.
They said that no one
complained about union wages.
Everyone felt like it was a typical indie
shoot, got paid fair wages.
So we don't know exactly what happened,
but we do know that it
(15:35):
turned union towards the
end of the shoot.
It could be and this is a big thing.
If the union crew is working non-union,
those hours that they're
working, they might not
get paid overtime.
Possibly we don't know.
(15:56):
Also those hours won't
go to their insurance.
That's the thing.
Yes, that's the key
because I saw that post.
I don't know if it's easier or harder.
We're not working for hours
to get our health insurance.
We're actually working towards how much
money you make on a side
project and you have to
get $23,000 a year to
(16:17):
make health insurance.
I thought it was more now.
Is it not more now?
Health insurance are
being provided by this.
Go ahead.
What is it?
$25,950.
$26,000.
Out of all of Sean Baker's films, we go
from Tangerine, we go to
Red Rocket, we go to Florida
Project, all these independent great
films that he's been
doing for the past 10, 15,
(16:39):
20 years.
Most of them were non-union.
Oh, I didn't realize that.
The only one was Florida Project.
Florida Project was a big movie.
Directors in the DGA technically can work
a non-union film, which is just bonkers.
That's already a whole other issue that
we got to deal with.
The non-union crew.
(17:00):
With a budget of $6 million.
Exactly.
A budget for $6 million.
The process started and they
essentially flipped the crew.
From the actor's perspective, a SAG
actor, let's say, is wanted by a
non-union production.
A SAG actor can require
(17:21):
or demand a SAG contract.
In that situation, and I think more
actors need to know this because I
learned this recently,
the actors actually have the power to
flip a production union.
Obviously, we're a little union biased,
but we want more productions to go union.
This gets tricky when you say that
someone usually works
non-union because we don't want
(17:44):
it to sound like they're
disrespecting the crew.
If we're talking about a non-union film
that you can imagine,
he shoots pretty run and
gun.
He has a very indie feel.
He used this as an example.
Actors were approaching real people and
(18:05):
he was getting it on film.
He would get them to
sign a release later.
He was using real people in a run and gun
scene in real crowds.
The issue was, he goes, "Do you know how
much more difficult
that is to do when there's
40 people around you and you just want
everyone to go away?"
He goes, "Come on guys, do we need the
head of transportation here?"
(18:25):
I'll just speak for an example.
I produced full on web series.
I shot short films and stuff like that.
First of all,
obviously, it was low budget.
The hard work was
just doing the paperwork.
That being said, it was important for us
to do the paperwork
because we were like, "Okay,
we want to play by the rules and also
(18:49):
being part of SAG, I
wanted to make sure it was
all kosher."
When you talk about anyone who's doing an
independent film right now, it's like, of
course it makes more money sense to make
things non-union
because it's so difficult.
It's so difficult to have all the
paperwork and have all the
(19:09):
regulations and you can't
be as run and gun.
I think the point I'm trying to make is
how you were saying
where everyone was just all
cool, common, and
collected and casual, here we are.
I can't even imagine what...
I'm sure Inoura was still a great
experience, but you can
imagine it's a little...
One of his indie films
might be a little messier.
(19:30):
That's a bad way of saying it and it's
sad because you're saying,
"Hey, all these regulations
and restrictions that are protecting us,
they kind of got in the way
because there's regulations
that this person has to be here."
Nicole Kimman just made a comment about
the intimacy coordinator.
She's doing sex scenes
with Kimmy Chalamet right now.
(19:51):
Literally right now, they're having sex.
I'm just joking.
Wait, it wasn't Nicole Kimman.
It was Gwyneth Paltrow, wasn't it?
Oh, my God.
I don't think it was Nicole Kimman.
Thank you.
Gwyneth Paltrow.
Gwyneth Paltrow is having sex scenes with
Timothee Chalamet and
she goes, "I'm from a
different generation.
This intimacy coordinator, you can back
(20:12):
up and I don't need your help."
Now...
The quote that I read today was she said
something like, "I'm from
an era where you get naked,
you get into bed and there's a camera
rolling," or something like that.
I might be butchering that quote.
That was the quote that I read.
No, that was another quote there.
Yeah, exactly.
So that gives you an idea.
(20:33):
Which is vital though, I think.
Right, but it's to protect people.
It's not regulation
for regulation's sake.
That one is vital to protect people
because it's such a
sensitive area and you've heard
horror stories of, I don't want to say
being abused, but like,
you know, they're pretty
much being abused on sets.
(20:54):
So I think an intimacy coordinator is a
brilliant thing to have on a
set and I think it's vital.
So I...
Filmmaker saying it gets in the way.
I think that loses validity when it's to
do with something as
basic as people's safety
in areas like that.
And so on top of that,
we should mention this.
(21:16):
Mikey Madison declined from having an
intimacy coordinator on the set of Inora.
Now it's up to her.
She was offered by the
production and she declined.
Now if you watch Inora, it's
about she plays a sex worker.
There's a lot of sex scenes in it and it
was up to her, but she declined.
(21:37):
And also to your point of why this is so
important, aside from
intimacy coordinator,
we're also coming off of Rust.
Rust is where the director of photography
got shot on set accidentally.
It was the Alec Baldwin feature film.
So that already right off the bat gives
(21:58):
you an idea of how
important and how aware everyone
is about union's
production safety and also unions.
And so I completely agree.
I completely agree
with what you're saying.
I mean, this is here to protect everyone.
Was that set...
Sorry to interrupt you.
Was that set non-union or was it a union
set that were just regulations?
No, that was union.
(22:18):
It was union.
That's what I thought.
That was union.
Yeah.
And yeah, corners were cut a lot in that
production, but from
what I read, I don't know.
But like, it seems like there were a lot
of corners cut and
safety was obviously not
prioritized.
But there is a Rust
documentary right now.
(22:39):
I'll put the link in the description.
If you talk to any of the crew members on
that, if you talk to
any crew members, they
said it's almost like required watching
for film and TV
professionals, the Rust documentary.
So I'll put a link in the description so
people should check that out.
Yeah.
Like ideally, every film is union because
(23:00):
it just protects people.
Well, really, on that
note, most films aren't.
A lot of them are studio films and
necessarily they're union.
But if you talk about like a lot of
horror films, I mean, the
fact that we didn't know
that most of Sean
Baker's movies were non-union.
I mean, here's the thing.
If you're if you're doing a independent
film for two million
(23:21):
dollars, a lot of people are
doing it non-union in
the woods of Kentucky.
And financially, that
actually makes a lot of sense.
Obviously, you want to make sure that,
you know, your actors are safe.
But a lot of low budget films are
non-union specifically for that reason.
They can't they can't
afford and do all the paperwork.
(23:42):
Oh, so how do they use actors?
How do they use union actors?
They're just that's a big question.
A lot of people are
working off the clock.
I want to say for big stars, there might
be a couple waivers.
Yeah, it just won't go to their SAG SAG
health insurance money.
You get kicked out of the union.
They got you. Yeah.
(24:02):
I don't know if there's any hard fest
rules on it, but I need
to find this out because
it's fascinating to me.
Compose a penalty for
working on your job.
Yes, potential consequences include hefty
fines, suspension or
even expulsion from the
union. SAG is clear about the fact that
there can be
consequences to the union at large
if too many members
decide to work non-union jobs.
And, you know, a lot of this
(24:23):
union stuff is is is messy.
But, you know, you can imagine coming off
of the two strikes where
we're being more informed
and everyone's more engaged.
And in America, you know,
pro union is a big deal.
It's been it's been making huge waves in
the past couple of years.
Obviously, now it's a little different
now that Trump is president.
And we'll see how that goes.
(24:43):
But it's very it's
become a very stuff is messy.
Yeah, it is because it's become a very
political thing where
unions are being sort of
demonized. Whereas, you know, organized
labor is the only power
that that people really
have. You know, otherwise you're
dependent on companies
giving you fair conditions and
(25:04):
fair wages. It's gotten harder and harder
to make a living in in
the entertainment industry
for a lot of people.
So go the unions, I say.
Fights power, man.
That's the other thing. It's like without
without union
minimums, you and I and other
actors, we all love to act.
So basically, we're like, you know,
honestly, if you pay me
(25:24):
fifteen dollars or if you just
buy me lunch, of course I'll do it.
So so basically we were we would all be,
you know, usually when
artists and money, usually
they don't mix very well.
So we need these regulations to protect
and have some standards as far as this is
sustainable and these minimums are there.
And, you know, the thing is, like,
(25:45):
because a lot of this job
is, you know, a lot of the
work you do as an actor is unpaid and you
pay for classes, you
pay for casting websites,
you get headshots.
There's a lot of cost involved.
And then the vast majority of the work
you do is essentially a
job interview where you
are just applying for jobs all the time.
(26:05):
And but you don't get paid for that.
So when you do get paid, a union ensures
that at least there is
a minimum rate that kind
of covers some of that cost.
I was talking to a friend of mine one
time and he's he did a
commercial and it was a big
it was a national commercial.
And he got I don't know, he ended up
getting about 50
(26:25):
grand or something for it.
And, you know, someone said, oh, yeah,
it's pretty good for a
day's work as in kind of
like, oh, must be nice for you.
And he goes, he goes, do you know how
many days I had to work
for that day's work just
to get to that day's work?
You know what I mean?
Good. You know how many days I've put in
that I didn't get paid a penny for.
So it's not, you know, people look at the
(26:47):
rates of paying out.
That's crazy.
And you're like, well, it's not when you
like add up all the
other things involved in it.
Yeah. Like, I don't know any other job
like that where the vast
majority of the work you
do for that profession is unpaid.
It's a high risk, high reward profession.
And that's why we love it.
You know, if everyone
could do this, everyone would.
But this is this is kind of like the
(27:07):
danger that we're playing.
I just saw a clip of Meryl Streep today
saying actors are very zen
because she said a lot of
the time you're not working.
And then when you are working, you're
completely consumed by that that job.
And then you're not working again.
And she said, so they're very zen because
they're they're they have
(27:28):
to be exactly where they are.
You know, you have to be OK with the not
working and then you're on
the job and you're like you're
consumed by that. I don't know if I fully
agree with that if if
actors are very zen when they're
not working. But it was
an interesting take on it.
Interesting.
(27:48):
Yeah, that that's that's a cool point.
I think that's a very
rosy way of looking at it.
But also, she's the
ultimate professional.
I think maybe it's it's it's we hope and
aspire to being more zen,
being able to deal with the
ups and downs.
(28:09):
And I you know, in a dream world as well
as Meryl Streep, you know what I mean?
But I think yeah, I think it it forces us
to try to be more zen if
we can handle this over
amount of time.
It's probably easier to be like that when
you're when you're in her position.
But I don't know, maybe
she was always like that.
It was just an interesting take on it.
(28:31):
And I don't think it
applies to everybody.
But it's an interesting idea that like
actors are very present in
what they're doing because
that's all they have, you know.
Huh, I guess it depends
on what people mean by Zen.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, one thing I will say is, is I knew
I knew at an early age,
(28:53):
part of the reason why I became
an actor is I had an inkling that it was
going to make me a better person.
And just imagine I had a feeling that
even my team, I'm not even
joking around, even in my
teens, I was secretly dreaming of
possibly becoming an actor without any
any rhyme or reason.
I thought if I became an actor, it would
(29:14):
it would make me a better person.
And I'm not going to lie, I was right.
Like it was forcing me to get on a call,
forcing me to be in touch
with my feelings in all the
weird ways.
I didn't know anything right or wrong.
And I didn't even know if I
was going to become an actor.
But I just had this
in the back of my head.
And so my point is, is,
is I was kind of right.
(29:35):
And I still believe it.
I think it can, you know,
change my life for better here.
And here me speaking, you
know, I'm not Meryl Streep.
I'm not a bajillionaire.
But I'm going to say that whatever I
could learn through doing this over
years, it probably did
force me to become a little more Zen.
That's a very self-aware kind of a month,
(29:57):
you know, point of view, I think.
And, you know, by better person, do you
mean like a more
well-rounded person, a more engaged
person or less of a bastard?
Because initially when you said a better
person, I meant, you know,
I'm a bit of a bastard, but
this will make me a better person.
(30:17):
No, no, yeah, not the latter.
So more engaged.
Yes, that's okay.
And, you know, loosely more
in touch with my feelings.
To be honest, I think it
actually might be a bit of both.
I think that being less of a bastard is
actually kind of more
of a symptom or of a
byproduct of maybe being a little more
balanced and a little more Zen.
(30:38):
I agree.
I just it's a really healthy take on it,
I think, and it's a
really good reason to do it.
Maybe a better person.
I love that.
Yeah.
And I think so too.
It hasn't made everybody a
better person, I would say.
I think you're...
I agree.
I agree.
It's not a cure-all, everyone.
(31:00):
It's not a cure-all.
So my hidden gem for this
week is just based on a...
Just because I feel like I've gone there
so often since I've been
home that I should just give
them a shout out.
But Bear Coffee in Blackrock, which is on
the south side of
Dublin, we usually go to after
swimming on a Sunday,
(31:21):
after jumping in the sea.
I say swimming, jumping in the sea for
three to four minutes,
freezing our asses off.
We go to Bear Coffee.
And the coffee is lovely.
It's right in the
middle of Blackrock there.
The coffee is lovely.
They let us sit there for hours.
Sometimes we'll sit there
for hours just chatting away.
And they're very
friendly and accommodating.
And they have a nice little outdoor
section at the back, which is covered.
(31:41):
And it's full of sparrows, which I
discovered the other day.
There's a lot of birds.
So it's like it's like drinking coffee in
an aviary that's populated by sparrows.
So Bear Coffee in Blackrock.
There you go.
Wow.
That's B-E-A-R, not bear as in naked.
It's bear as in the animal.
(32:02):
Bear Market Coffee.
We'll put the link in the description.
So my hidden gem, this is coming off of,
if you listened to last
episode, we did hidden
gems that were very health conscious.
And I just want to say, I did laundry for
the first time in a while.
I probably shouldn't say it like that.
But-
Your hidden gem is laundry?
(32:23):
Come on, man.
No, no.
Are you kidding me?
This is freaking Dr.
Bronner's suds.
Do you know Dr.
Bronner's?
Do I know Dr.
Bronner's?
No, I don't.
Oh, are you saying?
Okay, good.
So not only a lot of
people, a lot of people know Dr.
Bronner's, but I don't know if they've
actually did Sal's suds.
(32:43):
Okay.
Dr.
Bronner's is one of the most purist.
They're very open about what chemicals
they put in their, um, their cleansers.
So you can have like hand soap, you know,
you can use the hand
soap and, and, and it
doubles as shampoo and all that stuff.
I'm actually surprised
you haven't heard of Dr.
(33:03):
Bronner's.
So this is a, this is a huge gem for you.
So Dr.
Bronner's is everywhere.
It's in Target and all that stuff.
But Sal's suds is a biodegradable
cleaner, concentrated all purpose.
Okay.
So just to give you an idea,
the beauty of these things.
Oh, see.
I use their, uh, I use, I buy their, I
(33:25):
buy their peppermint and I buy their
lavender soap.
Exactly.
That's literally what
I use for body wash.
It's cost effective, but also has many,
many multiple purposes, but it's also
very clean and good for the environment
and supposedly healthy for us.
Right.
Uh, less chemicals.
Anyway, so this is specifically a
biodegradable
cleaner, all purpose cleaner.
(33:48):
The flavor is Siberian fear, uh, Oh no,
Siberian fur and spruce.
Okay.
When you say flavor, you mean the scent.
Don't, yeah, I'm not,
I'm not, yeah, exactly.
Send thank you.
Do not drink it.
Do not drink it.
Everyone.
It doesn't do that.
Um, so we have here, you
could use it for laundry.
You could use it for a
(34:09):
few drops for dishes.
You could use it to mop the floor.
You could use it to
rinse fruits and veggies.
You can use it to wipe patio furniture,
car washing, exterior windows.
Anyway, you could use it
to wax up a slip and slide.
There you go.
Dr.
Bronner.
Exactly.
So if you're a Dr.
Bronner's fans, uh, try the suds.
(34:32):
And the soap, the soap is great.
Try the peppermint soap.
That by our soap is brilliant.
The peppermint on the lavender.
I respect that.
Um, all right, guys,
that's our, that's our episode.
Uh, catch us next week.
And, uh, if you get a chance, leave us a
review, leave us a like,
and we'll see you next week.
See you next week guys.
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