July 1, 2025 • 43 mins
Welcome to Episode 35 of the Actor's Guide to the End of the World! This week, CA got some big news and a step forward for getting production back in CA. E-Kan and Rían talk about the latest progress in CA’s $750 million film/tv tax credit as well as what just went down the FilmLA contract renewal. FilmLA is the non-profit that helps LA filmmakers get permits for their productions, at least that’s the idea. But with productions leaving CA in droves, LA filmmakers want some major change and showed it by making their voices heard at a town hall in Downtown LA. You’ll hear what went down.
The guys also continue their conversation on making your own work, obstacles and roadblocks they’ve faced, and some practical tricks and methods to trick your brain and get sh#* done.
E-Kan also saw a talk with Lin-Manuel Miranda, Leslie Odom Jr. and shares incredible lessons on leadership and collaboration from the Broadway gods themselves. And that gets them to Rían’s worst audition story for a musical and what could’ve been… if Rían just knew how to dance. You’ll also hear why Christopher Nolan said “You don’t need to be typing to be writing”, and E-Kan says “Write what makes you angry.”
If you find yourself hitting stumbling blocks, this episode might help you.
https://deadline.com/2025/06/california-passes-750m-film-tax-credit-funding-1236444493/
Lin-Manuel Miranda and Leslie Odom Jr conversation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzHVG7r0G0c
E-Kan directed a short- No Laughing Matter: Tears of A Clown link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=sleaN1b0og8&t=1s&sttick=0
Hidden Gems:
B&H Bild Expo- https://www.bildexpo.com/
Time stamps
(0:00) Intro
(3:50) CA Film TV Tax Credits
(5:10) FilmLA Tax Renewal
(08:40) Creating your own work
(09:45) Rían’s worst audition story was for a musical
(12:20) E-Kan enters a singing contest
(15:00) Rían was almost a pop star
(17:00) Why Lin-Manuel Miranda’s the best
(21:00) Roadblocks that Rían faces
(23:00) Practical ways to get started creating
(26:40) Trick your brain
(29:00) Get a deadline
(38:00) Lesson E-Kan learned and why consistency is key
(40:25) Hidden Gems
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So I go to the
audition, do the
singing audition
and the acting
audition, and that
went fine.
And then I got a
callback and I was
like, oh, sweet. I
got a callback.
Went to the
callback.
Well, the callback
was a dance call
with me and what in
my mind can only
have been a room
full of
professional
dancers. And here's
me, an idiot who's
never danced
(00:20):
a step in his
life. Cold sweat
going down my neck.
I was like, oh no.
Welcome to the
Actors' Guide to
the End of the
World podcast where
we talk about
acting in Hollywood
in a way people
understand. I'm
your host E-Kan Soong
and this is...
Rían Sheehy Kelly.
How are you?
What's up buddy?
Follow us wherever
(00:40):
you find your
podcasts at Actors' Guide
podcast. We're
on all social media
at Actors' Guide
podcast. Please
leave a like, leave
a review,
give us any
comment or
feedback. We really
appreciate it and
it helps
the channel.
And it makes us
feel nice. So, it's
more important.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, it does.
Actually, I do want
to throw this out
there. He
(01:01):
actually might
be listening. Shout
out to Casey
Babcock. Have not
spoken to Casey in
years, but he sent
me a message
and he loves the
podcast. So...
Oh, it's nice.
It's little things
like that really
does make my day
It's a if it's a
blast from the past
from our lives when
you're like, I
(01:22):
would have never
guessed but it
actually really
It's nice. Yeah, I
hear that now word
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Welcome to the
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(01:43):
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[Laughter]
What's up?
Hot up.
Hot and bothered
over in
Los Angeles.
(02:10):
This is not a test.
There's an active
manhunt.
Thankfully, Rian
got back safely so
we can do
this episode.
So nothing will
stop us from giving
you the best Actors
Guide to the End of
the World
podcast here.
But Rian luckily
made it back alive.
(02:30):
Not a great
advertisement for
LA, but this is
literally what's
happening in Rian's
neck of the woods.
I believe that.
Yeah. Anyway, yeah
starting off on a
cherry note. So on
the show for today,
(02:52):
let's, we're
actually going to
talk a lot about
LA. Well, a decent
amount about LA.
Mostly good news,
not about an active
shooter, but we
have good news
coming out
of film and
TV. We have
governor Newsom,
$750 million in tax
incentives is
moving
forward. Also,
(03:12):
we have film LA, a
lot of progress
with film LA,
renewing the
contract.
We're going to
get into all the
details about that.
And then we also
are going to
revisit our
conversation
about creating your
own content. What
are the
roadblocks we.
massively
(03:33):
overblown but
But thank you. So
first off let's
talk about the
seven hundred fifty
million dollars
tax incentive
Governor Newsom put
that into effect or
made a proposal
last year and made
another step to
getting passed
officially
There was one vote
this week. It is
(03:54):
getting added to a
bill officially and
With this last step
California Film TV
tax incentives will
get the 750 million
dollars. Nice. It's
great. It wasn't
guaranteed but
It's it's almost
there. So we're
almost there and it
(04:15):
could
happen this week
There's another
bill that we've
talked
about AB 1138
AB 1138
Will make the
program more
Versatile for
different types of
productions the
bill will expand to
sitcoms animation
and large-scale
competition shows
So there you go. So
(04:35):
this is what we've
been talking about
over the past few
months and
It might it might
make it it might
make a step in the
right direction and
and California
starts
getting back into
The swing of
things. So this is
great news really
good. Yeah
(05:05):
So that's a great
segue because the
other big news
coming out of LA,
we have film LA.
There was actually
a big town hall.
There was a
meeting. I believe
the board
had to vote.
So there was a lot
of, there was
actually a little
tension last week.
So film LA, their
(05:25):
contract is up for
renewal. So a lot
of people have been
talking
about permits.
We need to rehaul
how things are
permitted in LA,
making things,
making shoots
easier, making film
makers, making it
easier for
film makers.
So film LA was kind
of in charge of
that. They, their
contract was under
renewal and they
were doing
the vote.
(05:47):
And stay in LA.
There's a lot of
other voices.
Adrian Nazarian was
one of them.
Making a push to
rehaul how film LA
does permits. So we
talked about
this a bit.
Karen Bass has been
making a push to,
you know, making
permits easier.
(06:07):
If you're an
independent
filmmaker, you know
a lot about
this stuff.
I vaguely know, I
just knew it was
hard and I just
know it's
expensive.
Film LA is a
nonprofit. So get
this. Film LA is a
nonprofit that is
supposedly in
charge of helping
film makers
shoot their
projects. It just
so happens that you
(06:27):
have to pay them
for their services.
Okay. So after all
these years,
everyone's like,
productions are
running away from
LA and we think
that you guys might
be part of
the problem.
So this is a
nonprofit. And from
what I heard,
there's one tier,
whether you're a
Marvel film or an
(06:49):
independent
filmmaker,
you have to pay
essentially $900
base. And also
supposedly film LA
has been over the
course of the week,
has been sending
out emails,
essentially
pressuring people
to kind of back
off. So that's kind
of not a
great look.
(07:09):
I mean, we've seen
several of these
emails online. So
we might put a
couple of these
links just in case
you want to see it.
Talk about a rock
and a hard place.
If they didn't get
their contract,
then it's
essentially chaos
because there's no
film LA and then
you have film
makers trying to do
their thing when
(07:30):
they lived and
worked with film LA
for years.
Or you get film LA
to overhaul
everything. So they
ended up with the
board renewing
another five years,
which some people
are like, I mean,
we're locked in for
five years.
But film LA agreed
to restructure and
(07:52):
adjust to improve
their contracts and
make it easier for
filmmakers.
There's so many
moving parts to
bringing production
back to Los
Angeles. It's kind
of nice to know
that, hey, we are
we are making
progress. So Stan
LA was a big
part of that.
They were posting a
lot. They either
way, they did renew
(08:13):
the contract and
they are going to
reevaluate. But
it's clear that
there's still a lot
of work to be done
and more pressure
is going to be put
on these lawmakers
to get some change
for a system that
definitely
does not work.
So we'll keep an
eye on that. Just
hoping for the best
here. But we are
making progress in
Los Angeles.
(08:35):
Yeah,
exactly, exactly.
That's our word
around town.
I feel like this is
a good episode for
picking up round
two of Talking
About Korean and
Growing Projects.
This is the time,
there's a lot of
people who are
itching, who are
hungry to
make their
own stuff, make
their own work.
(08:56):
I saw a talk not
too long ago,
Lin-Manuel Miranda,
who's a Broadway
genius, created
Hamilton, created
several other plays
and musicals.
Lin-Manuel Miranda
was having a
conversation with
Leslie Odom Jr.
For those that
don't know,
Hamilton is about
Alexander Hamilton,
a lot of
(09:16):
relationships,
it's a historical
retelling of that
time set with many
diverse characters
and also a lot
of rap and hip-hop.
It was
revolutionary for
the Broadway world,
which is part of
the reason why
younger audiences
(09:39):
love it so much.
I don't know if
you're familiar
with these musicals
or if you're
familiar
with musical
theater.
Maybe I just
haven't
seen enough.
Can I tell us?
So- Who's
for a musical?
So- Oh my God.
I was actually
(09:59):
wondering if you're
a singer.
Yeah, let's get
into this.
The singing was...
(11:46):
And that was the
end of that.
Wow.
Yeah.
So it was just, it
was like, it
was like a.
I was gonna say,
this sounds like a
Tina Fey movie or
something.
(12:12):
Oh, no, I think
that's the actor
move. I think you
got you got to go
out with your
guns blazing
Probably I had a
personal
achievement this
past month
Benson Boone I
don't expect you to
know who Benson
Boone is. I didn't
know who Benson
Boone was
He's basically the
hottest male young
hot singer
(12:33):
Around right now.
He's a white guy
with a very cute
mustache very
charming guy
I absolutely do not
know who he was if
I didn't see
My sister watching
him on Jimmy Fallon
this week. My point
is is Benson Boone
happened to show up
in New York in
Soho the area in
Soho he gave out a
(12:54):
bunch of JBL
speakers the
city went mad
Tour the city tour
the city apart now
Here's the thing
you and me might be
the only people who
really don't know
who Benson Boone is
He sold out his
concert in
literally eight
seconds. He's been
on Coachella all
the Grammys
He's already been
all on all the
award shows.
Everyone
loves this guy
(13:15):
No, no, I
absolutely do love
this guy for
someone that
doesn't know who he
is. He is very
charming. So
we go to JBL
it just so happens
that we happen to
walk into a
Benson Boone
karaoke contest
The first ten
people who sing a
Benson Boone song
gets a free speaker
(13:36):
Well, you know how
me and my sister
love free stuff. My
sister was
going to do it
I was like you're
going to do this. I
was like, well, you
need a
speaker go ahead
I'll film you and I
was so resistant.
I'm waiting in line
first ten people
We literally are in
the front of the
line. I can get a
free
speaker if I want
I'm like there's
nobody in the
store. I'm like am
I really going to
be singing a
(13:56):
Benson Boone song
and I don't even
know who he is or
know any of the
songs and
Me I faced my fears
Some dude who was
absolutely horrible
was before us and
he goes dude
Just get the
speaker. Give it
away as a gift.
You're there
It was the greatest
advice ever my
(14:17):
sister sings. She
was I mean to be
fair not great
it's a test to see
if she uh...
if she listens
Yeah, yeah, I'm
baiting her I sing
in public not only
did I
choose the song
The one song that I
thought I knew he
(14:37):
played a
different song I
Sang in public for
what I thought was
an eternity for
three minutes
My sister said I
actually sounded
good and
the employee
Thought I sounded
good. I she
probably said that
to everyone my
point is is
So the fact that
you actually sing
in public. I think
that's actually
really admirable
(15:02):
I'll try to believe
at one point.
No way!
What on earth?
Early 2000s,
early 2000s.
We gotta
talk about this.
I didn't even know
about that.
We'll get
into that.
You are so light
years ahead of me.
The fact that you
had an Irish single
that I tried to
sing a karaoke
song, Benson Boone,
(15:24):
with 10 people in
the store and I
almost died.
That being said,
I'm very
proud of myself
and I was facing my
fears and
who knows,
I might actually
start singing a
little bit.
You never know.
You might see me at
the karaoke bars,
everyone.
And now it sounds
like you're a fully
fledged booney.
Which I assume is
what they
call his fans.
Anyway, so
(15:45):
Leslie Odom Jr.
Who's a
big star now.
He talked about why
Lin Manuel was the
best to work with.
He said, part of
his genius is that
he allows
other people
to just be as
brilliant as him
and shine just as
brightly
as he does.
(16:06):
Lin Manuel is
obviously
the writer.
He's also in it and
everything,
but he's the
mastermind of
Hamilton and
in the Heights.
And Leslie Odom Jr.
also said
this quote,
some people only
let you be as tall
only when you're
walking on
your knees.
Which I thought was
very poetic.
And I thought was
(16:27):
really interesting.
He's right.
Some people don't
let other people
outshine them.
Some people only,
some people
have to be
the star
of the show.
Lin Manuel is not.
He's not like that
and he never was.
And there's a
reason why he's
kind of like
a Broadway phenom
and the golden boy.
(16:48):
The reason why I
bring this up is
that's actually
kind of a great
lesson for anyone
creating
their own project.
Lin Manuel
explains, he goes,
"I feel like I'm
always making a
high
school musical.
"I'm making a high
school musical.
(17:09):
"I'm trying to
compete with band,
"with the football
practice, with
everyone else.
"I need to get my
cast to
get on board.
"I need my shit to
be the coolest,
funnest
shit around.
"Because I'm
competing with
everyone else
"and they're not
getting paid."
What does he mean
with that?
Or if he's putting
(17:29):
together a musical
in high school.
It's basically
extracurricular
activity, right?
Oh, okay, sorry.
Yeah,
exactly, exactly.
So that's
the point.
So he feels like
he's always making
a high school play
where he's
competing with a
bunch of
other things
that might be more
interesting and he
wants everyone
to get on board and
have a great time.
(17:51):
Because it's that
kind of
mentality where,
you have to get
these people to be
in your musical.
He is always
competing with,
and I think that's
the metaphor.
If you're starting
something small
or you're putting
together an
independent film
or you're putting
together a
web series,
(18:11):
I think that's
actually kind of
the perfect
mentality.
It's how do I make
this the greatest
experience
where as much money
as you might have,
you're not gonna be
paying as
much as HBO Max.
If you have anyone
who's going to come
show up on time,
be professional, be
part of
your vision,
(18:32):
and essentially
take a pay cut,
make it the best
time ever.
Everyone that I
worked with on my
projects,
absolutely
indebted to.
Still to this day.
I'll speak from
experience in LA.
A lot of people
wanna say that
(18:54):
they're in charge
or producing
something, but they
don't actually,
they actually just
wanted to say that
they're a producer.
They didn't
actually wanna
produce the thing.
A lot of people
wanna say that
they're a director
and just boss
people around.
A lot of people
care about what
(19:14):
they're
actually doing
on set versus, hey,
let's try
to make this
the best thing
possible.
What I'm saying is,
and this goes back
to Kirsten Sheridan
and the episode
that we
did with her,
where we talked to
great directors
and there's not a
lot of ego.
If anything, how do
you set the table
(19:35):
for actors
to shine?
I think that's kind
of like, this is a
good place to start
if you're creating
your own stuff.
I was indebted to
everyone who came
on my production,
any actor who
donated their time.
The first, I said
this last time,
the first season,
the first few
episodes was
shot on iPhones, so
we tried to keep it
really,
really simple.
(19:55):
The second season,
I had a friend with
a beautiful camera.
I had DP, we had
real crew come in
and they just
wanted to be part
of the show.
They were all down
to play and if
you're not a dick,
chances are people
wanna shoot.
I think people are
hungry right now.
People got a
little time.
(20:16):
There's not a lot
of jobs out there.
There's not a lot
of money out there.
Let's be honest, if
you're working a
current
streaming show,
you're actually
probably not
getting a lot of
residuals
either because of
the way
that pay works.
There's not a lot
of work for the
middle class
and younger actors.
(20:39):
You really should
be making
your own stuff
because no one's
getting
paid anyway.
(22:47):
but it looks like
he's just churning
it out
pretty easily.
So, it's
interesting to me,
what are the
barriers to doing
your own stuff?
Yeah, let's talk
about this.
I'm glad you asked
because this
is the time
to dig into it a
little bit.
So, I was actually,
before you brought
up your partner,
I was actually
going to say,
(23:08):
a great first step
is finding a
good partner.
So, what kind of
stuff were you
guys writing?
So, we'd write
comedy
sketches and stuff.
(24:27):
approach, I think,
to writing.
And it shows
in his films.
They're very
entertaining and
fun and funny.
Real quick, I just
saw something pop
up on Instagram.
Christopher Nolan
wrote, and I'm
paraphrasing, "You
don't need to be
typing to be
writing,"
which is brilliant.
So basically, a lot
of the writing is
maybe staring at a
(24:48):
blank screen, but
also a lot
of writing could be
taking a walk,
thinking about
ideas and
all that stuff.
So let's dig into
this, because I
think this
is great.
These are some
practical
first steps.
And now
here's the thing.
We talked about
this a little bit
recently.
Because you and I
are very different
in certain ways, or
(25:08):
kind of different
in certain ways.
And I would say
that we kind of
complement each
other fairly well.
If you're looking
to partner up with
a creative person
or a creative
collaboration,
ideally,
you hope that
someone's strengths
would complement
your weaknesses, et
(25:28):
cetera, et
cetera, and
you guys can both
grow together.
What would be the
next step?
What if you
committed to doing
a sketch on camera
and actually
posting it?
You would still be
writing the sketch.
You obviously are
acting regularly.
What would it be
like if you were
actually directing
yourself or someone
was directing
you and you were
writing these
sketches on camera?
Is there still--
(25:50):
that's just one
step, I think,
further of putting
yourself out there.
(26:20):
doing that I can
commit to
doing a sketch.
Yeah, I think so.
A lot of what I've
learned from
creating
my own stuff
or with my
co-creating, a lot
of it
bleeds into this.
I cultivate the
strong, strong
desire to
(26:41):
express myself.
Before I created my
web series,
that wasn't that
long ago,
six years ago,
I was
already acting.
Dude, I was scared.
But I knew that
there was something
in me that
was like,
okay, I need to get
these stories out.
My point is, is
with enough
leverage,
there was a handful
of stories.
First of all, I was
crafting
with my friend.
(27:01):
It got to the point
where if I don't
get this out,
I'm going to die.
Like, it needs that
much leverage.
Okay, it needs to
be like, like, say
for example, this.
Wait, that's how it felt too?
That was the--
Absolutely.
Every week
we do this,
and I don't wanna
sound dramatic.
The best times that
I have doing
this podcast
(27:22):
is when I can't
wait to talk
about this.
If I don't talk
about this with
Rian, I'm
going to die.
So just keep in
mind, I
know, I know.
It's funny, we were
talking about
whether I was
intense last week.
So.
This is the motor
that's in me.
And it starts with
morning pages in
the morning.
Sometimes you're
doodling and you're just
writing some pages
(27:43):
first thing in the
morning and
you're like,
okay, this is
something that's
bothering me.
I can't
figure this out.
Maybe this is good
for the podcast
or maybe this is a
great TV show idea.
Anyway, so starting
out from that
little nugget,
and it depends on
the type of person,
some people, and I
vouch for
experimenting
with both,
if you need
(28:03):
caffeine or if you
need to be in a
great mood,
freaking chug the
caffeine and
start writing.
Whatever you need
to do to kick you
over that edge,
I will absolutely
do it because it's
that hard sometimes
to actually
get to work.
I need that kick.
If you're gonna
treat yourself to a
scone and a coffee,
(28:24):
freaking do it and
just chug it, okay?
Right chug
it. I'm right
The other flip side
of it and and this
is this is you
know, these are all
various things that
writers say
Write what makes
you angry if you
needed to get to
that page or get to
that type
typewriter, I don't
(28:45):
know if anyone uses
a typewriter
anymore if you
needed to
Get the initiative
to actually get to
the page find what
makes you angry and
start with there
So those are both
sides of the coin
where obviously
you're
experimenting
you're seeing what
works you're seeing
what you care about
Urgency helps out a
lot a deadline
(29:06):
helps out a lot the
indie little short
film that you shot
in three days with
with your
Buddies in Ireland.
Mmm. There was a
deadline the short
film that I did
with my with my
co-co
writing partner
It was a it was the
time of it coming
out the it is the
scary clown movie
He pitched me this
idea. What if it's
(29:26):
a documentary?
Following real
clowns because of
the scary clown
Representation it's
ruining their lives
when he said that
idea to me. I said
drop everything we
have to do this now
No, here's a and we
were going to shoot
(29:47):
this and release
this by
Halloween. I
Had a deadline I
literally dressed
up five of my
friends in full-on
clown makeup clown
costumes walking
around Hollywood
We got it out on
Halloween. We'll
put the link in the
in the show notes
I will never do
anything more proud
than I am of this
short film
We did get some
good things at
festivals. I don't
(30:08):
care if I haven't
directed anything.
I was fairly
confident
We did all the
legwork. We wrote
all those things.
We got it done.
We're like, let's
just see what
happens because
it's so
clear my head
(31:26):
Dude, I love this.
Let me throw this
at you because I'm
so glad you
brought this up.
A couple tidbits,
it's very
appropriate for
this, but also if
you're listening,
this might help
just joggle around
some ideas.
I totally know what
you mean. If you
feel it's better to
write or
easier to write,
(31:46):
do it on a notepad,
literally by hand,
if you have to.
Sure, it might use
up a lot of ink or
a lot of paper, but
either way,
you're writing.
Or a lot of people
use the freaking
Apple iPhone Notes
and just jot down
that because it
helps them to have
the clean slate.
Exactly. Yeah
(32:24):
make it. And
exactly. Exactly.
But it's a box.
Yeah, yeah, I
like talking about
(34:10):
hidden gem because
I don't have
another one
this week.
I think that's a
topical one
considering we're
talking
about this stuff.
Yeah.
That is a worthy,
worthy hidden gem.
I think
it's spot on.
So a couple things
about this.
It's, yeah, how do
we break through?
What are some
practical things?
And even talking
about it and also
it's like, you
(34:30):
know,
accountability
partners, whatever
people need and
kind of can get
that going.
I know as one other
actor who I'm
sorry, one other
writer who I
believe
always writes
by hand.
If what whatever
you can kind of
turn the sensor off
and quiet the
(34:52):
voices in our head
to do this
creative work.
Trust me.
I know or I can
understand how
horrible it is.
We need all the all
the weapons we have
to try to get
around it.
One other thing
that's kind of
tangential to that.
(35:13):
This idea and you
know, another nod
to Kirsten Sharon
is when she talked
about this, when
she when she
pitches stories and
she talks about
stories, she
pitches her kids.
She pitches her
kids and she tells
them, hey, what do
you think
about this?
Yada, yada, yada.
She's not
the only one.
That's not the only
time I heard of it.
I believe it was
Paul Schrader, a
great, great
screenwriter, wrote
many classics.
(35:33):
He argues it's a
filmmaking
at least.
Let's just talk
about film is an
oral medium
storytelling.
All of this is an
oral tradition.
Tell a story
to someone.
Tell a story
to someone.
And if you could
tell the story for
20 minutes, 25
minutes without
(35:53):
them
getting bored, you
might have a
feature film there.
And that's
literally it.
How do we keep this
so stupid simple?
(36:38):
I did that a few
times and I
finished it and I
felt such a sense
of accomplishment.
Even if I never
went back and
looked at that
script again, or if
it wasn't
something that
I wanted to really
remake or revisit,
the fact that I got
it finished
gave me a lot
of confidence to
kind of move
forward a bit.
And I guarantee you
can go back and
look at those
(36:58):
scripts now and
they'd be
probably show
you.
But it
didn't matter.
It's just the fact
that I did get them
finished.
One last thing
before we
wrap up here.
Let's say for
example, you were
asking for
practical things.
What was lacking
for me is I didn't
give
myself a runway.
I wanted to do a
(37:18):
web series.
People were like,
"Well, web series,
everyone's doing a
web series.
What are you
going to do?
You're going to
sell it to
Netflix?"
We were just like,
"Let's just make a
great show.
It stands on its
own and maybe
something happens."
Naturally, there's
no celebrities in
it and no, it
didn't get
sold to Netflix.
We were very
proud of it.
We did three
episodes, the first
(37:39):
season, and then we
did another four
episodes, the
second season.
My point is, I
didn't give myself
enough runway to
have many, many,
many
episodes to keep
me to keep
doing it.
I did three
episodes.
We love it.
We're proud of it.
It took me a
certain amount of
months to do it.
And then we did
(37:59):
another
second season.
There was nowhere
to go with it,
meaning that now,
whether it's social
media, whether
it's YouTube,
whatever, what have
you, give yourself
a runway and
stick to it.
And also, it just
so happens, here we
are doing a
weekly podcast.
This is the only
consistent thing
I've ever
done in my life.
(38:20):
This literally is
the only thing that
I said, "Hey, let's
try to do this
every week.
And what is it
going to look like
if we actually
stick to it?"
And here we are.
And then I see the
benefit of it.
If we did our web
series, which
technically we
could have, I mean,
it might
have killed
us, but we
technically could
have done episodes
(38:41):
longer, weekly, and
people who
put that much
more work into it,
they win.
That's the key, I
think, is
consistency.
And even the
people, I don't
think you have to
kill yourself, but
you do have to be
consistent,
I think.
And I see the
people who put out
the sketches just
do it all the time.
Some of them hit,
some of them don't
hit, you know
(39:02):
what I mean?
But it's the
frequency and the
volume of them.
And ultimately over
time, there's going
to be great
ones in there.
Exactly.
And either way, if
one of them doesn't
hit, then you have
the next one to
move on to.
(39:34):
Can you imagine how
much someone would
be overthinking if
you put out a
sketch
every six months
and you only have
the next six months
or let's say if
it's a TV show when
they do it
like a season
every three years
or whatever because
production is crazy
or a film that
takes five years.
You only get that
other bite of the
apple after
five years.
(39:55):
Like I almost look
at it as a benefit
with technology and
with so many things
in our fingertips.
Dude we could be
popping out a
million things but
it's hard to get
over that hump
and everyone's
distracted
on TikTok.
Exactly.
(40:15):
Exactly.
I put it there.
All right.
I think that's
pretty good
for today.
Hidden Gems, you
already did yours.
Let me just throw
this one out.
This happened last
week, but I feel
like everyone
should kind of get
it on their
radar because
I had a great time.
There was a
conference.
People might have
heard of this huge
photo store.
(40:37):
It's called B&H.
It's like this
mecca of photo and
film gear.
It's based out of
New York, but I
believe there might
be a couple of
locations around
the country.
Anyway, they had a
huge expo for two
days in New York.
I didn't know what
it was, to
(40:58):
be honest.
It was free for
everyone.
It was amazing.
They had so many
vendors there.
You could play with
new gear.
It's for
photographers,
content creators.
Everyone was there,
especially
in New York.
You could imagine
it was Mob, just by
photographers
alone.
They had
incredible panels.
I'll probably be
(41:18):
putting some of
them on my YouTube
and talking about
it in future
episodes.
So much
wisdom there.
They had a free
cruise, a sunset
cruise in New York
for one of
the days.
They show up or
they had a lottery
for people just to
be on a cruise with
free food and
drinks.
It was incredible.
I don't know how
(41:39):
much they're going
to be able to do
this, if they could
do it every
year.
Anyway, just want
to throw
that out there.
Met a lot of
new friends.
It was a great
environment.
Build expo.
That's my
hand in jam.
That's it.
Yours was
art of war.
The war of art.
The war of art.
Not the ...
Not to be
confused with ...
(41:59):
Sunzoos.
Epic.
It was the
art of war.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is probably a
great book too.
Perhaps it'll ...
No, no.
That one's a
good one too.
You really do.
Oh, you're kidding
me. Wow, you
(42:19):
actually had it.
Yeah. Someone
sent it to me.
Actually. Yeah.
Palomar sent it to
me. I didn't
know where
to find it.
It's up to you if
you want to put it
in the show notes.
You can stick it at
the end of
the podcast.
After the credits,
you can stick it--
tack it on
to the end.
Wait, wait,
wait, wait.
Are there going to
(42:40):
copyright issues?
Has this ever been
publicly rel--
who owns it,
technically?
I have no idea.
But it's like
20-something
years old.
We might get
ripped off.
We might get ripped
down if we actually
put music
in our show.
So let's double
check that.
Anyway, so Rian
might be a pop star
after this episode.
So this might be
his last
episode here.
This is from the
early 2000s, guys.
I was in my
(43:00):
early 20s.
Alright, that's our
show everyone.
Enjoy. Leave us a
review. Leave us a
like if you get a
chance and see you
next week
So I go to the
audition, do the
singing audition
and the acting
audition, and that
went fine.
And then I got a
callback and I was
like, oh, sweet. I
got a callback.
Went to the
callback.
Well, the callback
was a dance call
with me and what in
my mind can only
have been a room
full of
professional
dancers. And here's
me, an idiot who's
never danced
(00:20):
a step in his
life. Cold sweat
going down my neck.
I was like, oh no.
Welcome to the
Actors' Guide to
the End of the
World podcast where
we talk about
acting in Hollywood
in a way people
understand. I'm
your host E-Kan Soong
and this is...
Rían Sheehy Kelly.
How are you?
What's up buddy?
Follow us wherever
(00:40):
you find your
podcasts at Actors' Guide
podcast. We're
on all social media
at Actors' Guide
podcast. Please
leave a like, leave
a review,
give us any
comment or
feedback. We really
appreciate it and
it helps
the channel.
And it makes us
feel nice. So, it's
more important.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, it does.
Actually, I do want
to throw this out
there. He
(01:01):
actually might
be listening. Shout
out to Casey
Babcock. Have not
spoken to Casey in
years, but he sent
me a message
and he loves the
podcast. So...
Oh, it's nice.
It's little things
like that really
does make my day
It's a if it's a
blast from the past
from our lives when
you're like, I
(01:22):
would have never
guessed but it
actually really
It's nice. Yeah, I
hear that now word
from our sponsor
Welcome to the
Royal Academy for
Dramatic Barks,
where your puppies
will be trained by
acting legends
Ellen Barkin.
(01:43):
And Sir
Patrick Stewart.
Sign up today!
[Laughter]
What's up?
Hot up.
Hot and bothered
over in
Los Angeles.
(02:10):
This is not a test.
There's an active
manhunt.
Thankfully, Rian
got back safely so
we can do
this episode.
So nothing will
stop us from giving
you the best Actors
Guide to the End of
the World
podcast here.
But Rian luckily
made it back alive.
(02:30):
Not a great
advertisement for
LA, but this is
literally what's
happening in Rian's
neck of the woods.
I believe that.
Yeah. Anyway, yeah
starting off on a
cherry note. So on
the show for today,
(02:52):
let's, we're
actually going to
talk a lot about
LA. Well, a decent
amount about LA.
Mostly good news,
not about an active
shooter, but we
have good news
coming out
of film and
TV. We have
governor Newsom,
$750 million in tax
incentives is
moving
forward. Also,
(03:12):
we have film LA, a
lot of progress
with film LA,
renewing the
contract.
We're going to
get into all the
details about that.
And then we also
are going to
revisit our
conversation
about creating your
own content. What
are the
roadblocks we.
massively
(03:33):
overblown but
But thank you. So
first off let's
talk about the
seven hundred fifty
million dollars
tax incentive
Governor Newsom put
that into effect or
made a proposal
last year and made
another step to
getting passed
officially
There was one vote
this week. It is
(03:54):
getting added to a
bill officially and
With this last step
California Film TV
tax incentives will
get the 750 million
dollars. Nice. It's
great. It wasn't
guaranteed but
It's it's almost
there. So we're
almost there and it
(04:15):
could
happen this week
There's another
bill that we've
talked
about AB 1138
AB 1138
Will make the
program more
Versatile for
different types of
productions the
bill will expand to
sitcoms animation
and large-scale
competition shows
So there you go. So
(04:35):
this is what we've
been talking about
over the past few
months and
It might it might
make it it might
make a step in the
right direction and
and California
starts
getting back into
The swing of
things. So this is
great news really
good. Yeah
(05:05):
So that's a great
segue because the
other big news
coming out of LA,
we have film LA.
There was actually
a big town hall.
There was a
meeting. I believe
the board
had to vote.
So there was a lot
of, there was
actually a little
tension last week.
So film LA, their
(05:25):
contract is up for
renewal. So a lot
of people have been
talking
about permits.
We need to rehaul
how things are
permitted in LA,
making things,
making shoots
easier, making film
makers, making it
easier for
film makers.
So film LA was kind
of in charge of
that. They, their
contract was under
renewal and they
were doing
the vote.
(05:47):
And stay in LA.
There's a lot of
other voices.
Adrian Nazarian was
one of them.
Making a push to
rehaul how film LA
does permits. So we
talked about
this a bit.
Karen Bass has been
making a push to,
you know, making
permits easier.
(06:07):
If you're an
independent
filmmaker, you know
a lot about
this stuff.
I vaguely know, I
just knew it was
hard and I just
know it's
expensive.
Film LA is a
nonprofit. So get
this. Film LA is a
nonprofit that is
supposedly in
charge of helping
film makers
shoot their
projects. It just
so happens that you
(06:27):
have to pay them
for their services.
Okay. So after all
these years,
everyone's like,
productions are
running away from
LA and we think
that you guys might
be part of
the problem.
So this is a
nonprofit. And from
what I heard,
there's one tier,
whether you're a
Marvel film or an
(06:49):
independent
filmmaker,
you have to pay
essentially $900
base. And also
supposedly film LA
has been over the
course of the week,
has been sending
out emails,
essentially
pressuring people
to kind of back
off. So that's kind
of not a
great look.
(07:09):
I mean, we've seen
several of these
emails online. So
we might put a
couple of these
links just in case
you want to see it.
Talk about a rock
and a hard place.
If they didn't get
their contract,
then it's
essentially chaos
because there's no
film LA and then
you have film
makers trying to do
their thing when
(07:30):
they lived and
worked with film LA
for years.
Or you get film LA
to overhaul
everything. So they
ended up with the
board renewing
another five years,
which some people
are like, I mean,
we're locked in for
five years.
But film LA agreed
to restructure and
(07:52):
adjust to improve
their contracts and
make it easier for
filmmakers.
There's so many
moving parts to
bringing production
back to Los
Angeles. It's kind
of nice to know
that, hey, we are
we are making
progress. So Stan
LA was a big
part of that.
They were posting a
lot. They either
way, they did renew
(08:13):
the contract and
they are going to
reevaluate. But
it's clear that
there's still a lot
of work to be done
and more pressure
is going to be put
on these lawmakers
to get some change
for a system that
definitely
does not work.
So we'll keep an
eye on that. Just
hoping for the best
here. But we are
making progress in
Los Angeles.
(08:35):
Yeah,
exactly, exactly.
That's our word
around town.
I feel like this is
a good episode for
picking up round
two of Talking
About Korean and
Growing Projects.
This is the time,
there's a lot of
people who are
itching, who are
hungry to
make their
own stuff, make
their own work.
(08:56):
I saw a talk not
too long ago,
Lin-Manuel Miranda,
who's a Broadway
genius, created
Hamilton, created
several other plays
and musicals.
Lin-Manuel Miranda
was having a
conversation with
Leslie Odom Jr.
For those that
don't know,
Hamilton is about
Alexander Hamilton,
a lot of
(09:16):
relationships,
it's a historical
retelling of that
time set with many
diverse characters
and also a lot
of rap and hip-hop.
It was
revolutionary for
the Broadway world,
which is part of
the reason why
younger audiences
(09:39):
love it so much.
I don't know if
you're familiar
with these musicals
or if you're
familiar
with musical
theater.
Maybe I just
haven't
seen enough.
Can I tell us?
So- Who's
for a musical?
So- Oh my God.
I was actually
(09:59):
wondering if you're
a singer.
Yeah, let's get
into this.
The singing was...
(11:46):
And that was the
end of that.
Wow.
Yeah.
So it was just, it
was like, it
was like a.
I was gonna say,
this sounds like a
Tina Fey movie or
something.
(12:12):
Oh, no, I think
that's the actor
move. I think you
got you got to go
out with your
guns blazing
Probably I had a
personal
achievement this
past month
Benson Boone I
don't expect you to
know who Benson
Boone is. I didn't
know who Benson
Boone was
He's basically the
hottest male young
hot singer
(12:33):
Around right now.
He's a white guy
with a very cute
mustache very
charming guy
I absolutely do not
know who he was if
I didn't see
My sister watching
him on Jimmy Fallon
this week. My point
is is Benson Boone
happened to show up
in New York in
Soho the area in
Soho he gave out a
(12:54):
bunch of JBL
speakers the
city went mad
Tour the city tour
the city apart now
Here's the thing
you and me might be
the only people who
really don't know
who Benson Boone is
He sold out his
concert in
literally eight
seconds. He's been
on Coachella all
the Grammys
He's already been
all on all the
award shows.
Everyone
loves this guy
(13:15):
No, no, I
absolutely do love
this guy for
someone that
doesn't know who he
is. He is very
charming. So
we go to JBL
it just so happens
that we happen to
walk into a
Benson Boone
karaoke contest
The first ten
people who sing a
Benson Boone song
gets a free speaker
(13:36):
Well, you know how
me and my sister
love free stuff. My
sister was
going to do it
I was like you're
going to do this. I
was like, well, you
need a
speaker go ahead
I'll film you and I
was so resistant.
I'm waiting in line
first ten people
We literally are in
the front of the
line. I can get a
free
speaker if I want
I'm like there's
nobody in the
store. I'm like am
I really going to
be singing a
(13:56):
Benson Boone song
and I don't even
know who he is or
know any of the
songs and
Me I faced my fears
Some dude who was
absolutely horrible
was before us and
he goes dude
Just get the
speaker. Give it
away as a gift.
You're there
It was the greatest
advice ever my
(14:17):
sister sings. She
was I mean to be
fair not great
it's a test to see
if she uh...
if she listens
Yeah, yeah, I'm
baiting her I sing
in public not only
did I
choose the song
The one song that I
thought I knew he
(14:37):
played a
different song I
Sang in public for
what I thought was
an eternity for
three minutes
My sister said I
actually sounded
good and
the employee
Thought I sounded
good. I she
probably said that
to everyone my
point is is
So the fact that
you actually sing
in public. I think
that's actually
really admirable
(15:02):
I'll try to believe
at one point.
No way!
What on earth?
Early 2000s,
early 2000s.
We gotta
talk about this.
I didn't even know
about that.
We'll get
into that.
You are so light
years ahead of me.
The fact that you
had an Irish single
that I tried to
sing a karaoke
song, Benson Boone,
(15:24):
with 10 people in
the store and I
almost died.
That being said,
I'm very
proud of myself
and I was facing my
fears and
who knows,
I might actually
start singing a
little bit.
You never know.
You might see me at
the karaoke bars,
everyone.
And now it sounds
like you're a fully
fledged booney.
Which I assume is
what they
call his fans.
Anyway, so
(15:45):
Leslie Odom Jr.
Who's a
big star now.
He talked about why
Lin Manuel was the
best to work with.
He said, part of
his genius is that
he allows
other people
to just be as
brilliant as him
and shine just as
brightly
as he does.
(16:06):
Lin Manuel is
obviously
the writer.
He's also in it and
everything,
but he's the
mastermind of
Hamilton and
in the Heights.
And Leslie Odom Jr.
also said
this quote,
some people only
let you be as tall
only when you're
walking on
your knees.
Which I thought was
very poetic.
And I thought was
(16:27):
really interesting.
He's right.
Some people don't
let other people
outshine them.
Some people only,
some people
have to be
the star
of the show.
Lin Manuel is not.
He's not like that
and he never was.
And there's a
reason why he's
kind of like
a Broadway phenom
and the golden boy.
(16:48):
The reason why I
bring this up is
that's actually
kind of a great
lesson for anyone
creating
their own project.
Lin Manuel
explains, he goes,
"I feel like I'm
always making a
high
school musical.
"I'm making a high
school musical.
(17:09):
"I'm trying to
compete with band,
"with the football
practice, with
everyone else.
"I need to get my
cast to
get on board.
"I need my shit to
be the coolest,
funnest
shit around.
"Because I'm
competing with
everyone else
"and they're not
getting paid."
What does he mean
with that?
Or if he's putting
(17:29):
together a musical
in high school.
It's basically
extracurricular
activity, right?
Oh, okay, sorry.
Yeah,
exactly, exactly.
So that's
the point.
So he feels like
he's always making
a high school play
where he's
competing with a
bunch of
other things
that might be more
interesting and he
wants everyone
to get on board and
have a great time.
(17:51):
Because it's that
kind of
mentality where,
you have to get
these people to be
in your musical.
He is always
competing with,
and I think that's
the metaphor.
If you're starting
something small
or you're putting
together an
independent film
or you're putting
together a
web series,
(18:11):
I think that's
actually kind of
the perfect
mentality.
It's how do I make
this the greatest
experience
where as much money
as you might have,
you're not gonna be
paying as
much as HBO Max.
If you have anyone
who's going to come
show up on time,
be professional, be
part of
your vision,
(18:32):
and essentially
take a pay cut,
make it the best
time ever.
Everyone that I
worked with on my
projects,
absolutely
indebted to.
Still to this day.
I'll speak from
experience in LA.
A lot of people
wanna say that
(18:54):
they're in charge
or producing
something, but they
don't actually,
they actually just
wanted to say that
they're a producer.
They didn't
actually wanna
produce the thing.
A lot of people
wanna say that
they're a director
and just boss
people around.
A lot of people
care about what
(19:14):
they're
actually doing
on set versus, hey,
let's try
to make this
the best thing
possible.
What I'm saying is,
and this goes back
to Kirsten Sheridan
and the episode
that we
did with her,
where we talked to
great directors
and there's not a
lot of ego.
If anything, how do
you set the table
(19:35):
for actors
to shine?
I think that's kind
of like, this is a
good place to start
if you're creating
your own stuff.
I was indebted to
everyone who came
on my production,
any actor who
donated their time.
The first, I said
this last time,
the first season,
the first few
episodes was
shot on iPhones, so
we tried to keep it
really,
really simple.
(19:55):
The second season,
I had a friend with
a beautiful camera.
I had DP, we had
real crew come in
and they just
wanted to be part
of the show.
They were all down
to play and if
you're not a dick,
chances are people
wanna shoot.
I think people are
hungry right now.
People got a
little time.
(20:16):
There's not a lot
of jobs out there.
There's not a lot
of money out there.
Let's be honest, if
you're working a
current
streaming show,
you're actually
probably not
getting a lot of
residuals
either because of
the way
that pay works.
There's not a lot
of work for the
middle class
and younger actors.
(20:39):
You really should
be making
your own stuff
because no one's
getting
paid anyway.
(22:47):
but it looks like
he's just churning
it out
pretty easily.
So, it's
interesting to me,
what are the
barriers to doing
your own stuff?
Yeah, let's talk
about this.
I'm glad you asked
because this
is the time
to dig into it a
little bit.
So, I was actually,
before you brought
up your partner,
I was actually
going to say,
(23:08):
a great first step
is finding a
good partner.
So, what kind of
stuff were you
guys writing?
So, we'd write
comedy
sketches and stuff.
(24:27):
approach, I think,
to writing.
And it shows
in his films.
They're very
entertaining and
fun and funny.
Real quick, I just
saw something pop
up on Instagram.
Christopher Nolan
wrote, and I'm
paraphrasing, "You
don't need to be
typing to be
writing,"
which is brilliant.
So basically, a lot
of the writing is
maybe staring at a
(24:48):
blank screen, but
also a lot
of writing could be
taking a walk,
thinking about
ideas and
all that stuff.
So let's dig into
this, because I
think this
is great.
These are some
practical
first steps.
And now
here's the thing.
We talked about
this a little bit
recently.
Because you and I
are very different
in certain ways, or
(25:08):
kind of different
in certain ways.
And I would say
that we kind of
complement each
other fairly well.
If you're looking
to partner up with
a creative person
or a creative
collaboration,
ideally,
you hope that
someone's strengths
would complement
your weaknesses, et
(25:28):
cetera, et
cetera, and
you guys can both
grow together.
What would be the
next step?
What if you
committed to doing
a sketch on camera
and actually
posting it?
You would still be
writing the sketch.
You obviously are
acting regularly.
What would it be
like if you were
actually directing
yourself or someone
was directing
you and you were
writing these
sketches on camera?
Is there still--
(25:50):
that's just one
step, I think,
further of putting
yourself out there.
(26:20):
doing that I can
commit to
doing a sketch.
Yeah, I think so.
A lot of what I've
learned from
creating
my own stuff
or with my
co-creating, a lot
of it
bleeds into this.
I cultivate the
strong, strong
desire to
(26:41):
express myself.
Before I created my
web series,
that wasn't that
long ago,
six years ago,
I was
already acting.
Dude, I was scared.
But I knew that
there was something
in me that
was like,
okay, I need to get
these stories out.
My point is, is
with enough
leverage,
there was a handful
of stories.
First of all, I was
crafting
with my friend.
(27:01):
It got to the point
where if I don't
get this out,
I'm going to die.
Like, it needs that
much leverage.
Okay, it needs to
be like, like, say
for example, this.
Wait, that's how it felt too?
That was the--
Absolutely.
Every week
we do this,
and I don't wanna
sound dramatic.
The best times that
I have doing
this podcast
(27:22):
is when I can't
wait to talk
about this.
If I don't talk
about this with
Rian, I'm
going to die.
So just keep in
mind, I
know, I know.
It's funny, we were
talking about
whether I was
intense last week.
So.
This is the motor
that's in me.
And it starts with
morning pages in
the morning.
Sometimes you're
doodling and you're just
writing some pages
(27:43):
first thing in the
morning and
you're like,
okay, this is
something that's
bothering me.
I can't
figure this out.
Maybe this is good
for the podcast
or maybe this is a
great TV show idea.
Anyway, so starting
out from that
little nugget,
and it depends on
the type of person,
some people, and I
vouch for
experimenting
with both,
if you need
(28:03):
caffeine or if you
need to be in a
great mood,
freaking chug the
caffeine and
start writing.
Whatever you need
to do to kick you
over that edge,
I will absolutely
do it because it's
that hard sometimes
to actually
get to work.
I need that kick.
If you're gonna
treat yourself to a
scone and a coffee,
(28:24):
freaking do it and
just chug it, okay?
Right chug
it. I'm right
The other flip side
of it and and this
is this is you
know, these are all
various things that
writers say
Write what makes
you angry if you
needed to get to
that page or get to
that type
typewriter, I don't
(28:45):
know if anyone uses
a typewriter
anymore if you
needed to
Get the initiative
to actually get to
the page find what
makes you angry and
start with there
So those are both
sides of the coin
where obviously
you're
experimenting
you're seeing what
works you're seeing
what you care about
Urgency helps out a
lot a deadline
(29:06):
helps out a lot the
indie little short
film that you shot
in three days with
with your
Buddies in Ireland.
Mmm. There was a
deadline the short
film that I did
with my with my
co-co
writing partner
It was a it was the
time of it coming
out the it is the
scary clown movie
He pitched me this
idea. What if it's
(29:26):
a documentary?
Following real
clowns because of
the scary clown
Representation it's
ruining their lives
when he said that
idea to me. I said
drop everything we
have to do this now
No, here's a and we
were going to shoot
(29:47):
this and release
this by
Halloween. I
Had a deadline I
literally dressed
up five of my
friends in full-on
clown makeup clown
costumes walking
around Hollywood
We got it out on
Halloween. We'll
put the link in the
in the show notes
I will never do
anything more proud
than I am of this
short film
We did get some
good things at
festivals. I don't
(30:08):
care if I haven't
directed anything.
I was fairly
confident
We did all the
legwork. We wrote
all those things.
We got it done.
We're like, let's
just see what
happens because
it's so
clear my head
(31:26):
Dude, I love this.
Let me throw this
at you because I'm
so glad you
brought this up.
A couple tidbits,
it's very
appropriate for
this, but also if
you're listening,
this might help
just joggle around
some ideas.
I totally know what
you mean. If you
feel it's better to
write or
easier to write,
(31:46):
do it on a notepad,
literally by hand,
if you have to.
Sure, it might use
up a lot of ink or
a lot of paper, but
either way,
you're writing.
Or a lot of people
use the freaking
Apple iPhone Notes
and just jot down
that because it
helps them to have
the clean slate.
Exactly. Yeah
(32:24):
make it. And
exactly. Exactly.
But it's a box.
Yeah, yeah, I
like talking about
(34:10):
hidden gem because
I don't have
another one
this week.
I think that's a
topical one
considering we're
talking
about this stuff.
Yeah.
That is a worthy,
worthy hidden gem.
I think
it's spot on.
So a couple things
about this.
It's, yeah, how do
we break through?
What are some
practical things?
And even talking
about it and also
it's like, you
(34:30):
know,
accountability
partners, whatever
people need and
kind of can get
that going.
I know as one other
actor who I'm
sorry, one other
writer who I
believe
always writes
by hand.
If what whatever
you can kind of
turn the sensor off
and quiet the
(34:52):
voices in our head
to do this
creative work.
Trust me.
I know or I can
understand how
horrible it is.
We need all the all
the weapons we have
to try to get
around it.
One other thing
that's kind of
tangential to that.
(35:13):
This idea and you
know, another nod
to Kirsten Sharon
is when she talked
about this, when
she when she
pitches stories and
she talks about
stories, she
pitches her kids.
She pitches her
kids and she tells
them, hey, what do
you think
about this?
Yada, yada, yada.
She's not
the only one.
That's not the only
time I heard of it.
I believe it was
Paul Schrader, a
great, great
screenwriter, wrote
many classics.
(35:33):
He argues it's a
filmmaking
at least.
Let's just talk
about film is an
oral medium
storytelling.
All of this is an
oral tradition.
Tell a story
to someone.
Tell a story
to someone.
And if you could
tell the story for
20 minutes, 25
minutes without
(35:53):
them
getting bored, you
might have a
feature film there.
And that's
literally it.
How do we keep this
so stupid simple?
(36:38):
I did that a few
times and I
finished it and I
felt such a sense
of accomplishment.
Even if I never
went back and
looked at that
script again, or if
it wasn't
something that
I wanted to really
remake or revisit,
the fact that I got
it finished
gave me a lot
of confidence to
kind of move
forward a bit.
And I guarantee you
can go back and
look at those
(36:58):
scripts now and
they'd be
probably show
you.
But it
didn't matter.
It's just the fact
that I did get them
finished.
One last thing
before we
wrap up here.
Let's say for
example, you were
asking for
practical things.
What was lacking
for me is I didn't
give
myself a runway.
I wanted to do a
(37:18):
web series.
People were like,
"Well, web series,
everyone's doing a
web series.
What are you
going to do?
You're going to
sell it to
Netflix?"
We were just like,
"Let's just make a
great show.
It stands on its
own and maybe
something happens."
Naturally, there's
no celebrities in
it and no, it
didn't get
sold to Netflix.
We were very
proud of it.
We did three
episodes, the first
(37:39):
season, and then we
did another four
episodes, the
second season.
My point is, I
didn't give myself
enough runway to
have many, many,
many
episodes to keep
me to keep
doing it.
I did three
episodes.
We love it.
We're proud of it.
It took me a
certain amount of
months to do it.
And then we did
(37:59):
another
second season.
There was nowhere
to go with it,
meaning that now,
whether it's social
media, whether
it's YouTube,
whatever, what have
you, give yourself
a runway and
stick to it.
And also, it just
so happens, here we
are doing a
weekly podcast.
This is the only
consistent thing
I've ever
done in my life.
(38:20):
This literally is
the only thing that
I said, "Hey, let's
try to do this
every week.
And what is it
going to look like
if we actually
stick to it?"
And here we are.
And then I see the
benefit of it.
If we did our web
series, which
technically we
could have, I mean,
it might
have killed
us, but we
technically could
have done episodes
(38:41):
longer, weekly, and
people who
put that much
more work into it,
they win.
That's the key, I
think, is
consistency.
And even the
people, I don't
think you have to
kill yourself, but
you do have to be
consistent,
I think.
And I see the
people who put out
the sketches just
do it all the time.
Some of them hit,
some of them don't
hit, you know
(39:02):
what I mean?
But it's the
frequency and the
volume of them.
And ultimately over
time, there's going
to be great
ones in there.
Exactly.
And either way, if
one of them doesn't
hit, then you have
the next one to
move on to.
(39:34):
Can you imagine how
much someone would
be overthinking if
you put out a
sketch
every six months
and you only have
the next six months
or let's say if
it's a TV show when
they do it
like a season
every three years
or whatever because
production is crazy
or a film that
takes five years.
You only get that
other bite of the
apple after
five years.
(39:55):
Like I almost look
at it as a benefit
with technology and
with so many things
in our fingertips.
Dude we could be
popping out a
million things but
it's hard to get
over that hump
and everyone's
distracted
on TikTok.
Exactly.
(40:15):
Exactly.
I put it there.
All right.
I think that's
pretty good
for today.
Hidden Gems, you
already did yours.
Let me just throw
this one out.
This happened last
week, but I feel
like everyone
should kind of get
it on their
radar because
I had a great time.
There was a
conference.
People might have
heard of this huge
photo store.
(40:37):
It's called B&H.
It's like this
mecca of photo and
film gear.
It's based out of
New York, but I
believe there might
be a couple of
locations around
the country.
Anyway, they had a
huge expo for two
days in New York.
I didn't know what
it was, to
(40:58):
be honest.
It was free for
everyone.
It was amazing.
They had so many
vendors there.
You could play with
new gear.
It's for
photographers,
content creators.
Everyone was there,
especially
in New York.
You could imagine
it was Mob, just by
photographers
alone.
They had
incredible panels.
I'll probably be
(41:18):
putting some of
them on my YouTube
and talking about
it in future
episodes.
So much
wisdom there.
They had a free
cruise, a sunset
cruise in New York
for one of
the days.
They show up or
they had a lottery
for people just to
be on a cruise with
free food and
drinks.
It was incredible.
I don't know how
(41:39):
much they're going
to be able to do
this, if they could
do it every
year.
Anyway, just want
to throw
that out there.
Met a lot of
new friends.
It was a great
environment.
Build expo.
That's my
hand in jam.
That's it.
Yours was
art of war.
The war of art.
The war of art.
Not the ...
Not to be
confused with ...
(41:59):
Sunzoos.
Epic.
It was the
art of war.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is probably a
great book too.
Perhaps it'll ...
No, no.
That one's a
good one too.
You really do.
Oh, you're kidding
me. Wow, you
(42:19):
actually had it.
Yeah. Someone
sent it to me.
Actually. Yeah.
Palomar sent it to
me. I didn't
know where
to find it.
It's up to you if
you want to put it
in the show notes.
You can stick it at
the end of
the podcast.
After the credits,
you can stick it--
tack it on
to the end.
Wait, wait,
wait, wait.
Are there going to
(42:40):
copyright issues?
Has this ever been
publicly rel--
who owns it,
technically?
I have no idea.
But it's like
20-something
years old.
We might get
ripped off.
We might get ripped
down if we actually
put music
in our show.
So let's double
check that.
Anyway, so Rian
might be a pop star
after this episode.
So this might be
his last
episode here.
This is from the
early 2000s, guys.
I was in my
(43:00):
early 20s.
Alright, that's our
show everyone.
Enjoy. Leave us a
review. Leave us a
like if you get a
chance and see you
next week
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