January 18, 2025 • 36 mins
Listen to Art Sluts, Teri and Ann share songs, memories and comment on then and now. Art Sluts were a groundbreaking feminist punk performance art band (1983-1986).
This episode is part II of Teri and Ann listening along with you to the KCOU radio interview from 1985 shortly after the release of their first album, For Your Protection.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
So we fucked it.
Welcome back, slabs!
Let's continue with part two of the Art Sluts radio interview from 1985.
(00:25):
That turned out really nice.
Yes.
When did you guys record this demo tape?
On the,
something of something.
The box says...
27th of January.
It sounds very very real casual.
I mean a lot of people when they record, you know for the first time Stiffen up, but youguys, you know seem just pull it off.
(00:49):
We had a great atmosphere.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
(01:10):
well that's...
They're belly-grown coffee beans.
Boone County.
We also wanted to just maintain like that we wanted to communicate the way we are on stagethrough the demo because on stage it's impossible.
Yeah, it's impossible.
(01:31):
Yeah, we're kind of you know into performance art and we have a lot of props.
didn't know I was until I saw myself on videotape and I realized that I'm really strange.
We jump around a lot and make obscene gestures and all kinds of weird stuff.
I guess that was at the Chez Cafe.
(01:53):
You cut your hair.
You were reading a poem and you got so carried away with it.
And I've talked to many people who are very affected by that, positively.
It was very emotional for them as well as for you.
Yeah, that was really intense.
Actually what happened was it was planned.
This was when Lori Creason was in the band and she's done a lot of theater work and shesaid, you know, why don't you cut your hair on your nighttime fable poem, which is a poem
(02:17):
about street hassling and
and the whole territoriality thing with women being outside at night and being in man'sterritory.
Anyway, and so I didn't tell anyone else in the band that I was gonna cut my hair.
And my hair was pretty long on the side anyway.
And so I just pulled out these scissors and started cutting.
And then it was followed by Angie's song, which is a very powerful song Pam sings.
(02:40):
And half the women at the Shae were just in tears and I was in tears and we were all intears.
It was just intense.
For me, what that act was, it was not like a conscious, I was not trying to communicatesomething specific, but when I look at it in a retrospect, I realized that it was my
(03:02):
inability to express the oppression that I was feeling.
And I couldn't even identify it specifically at that time.
you know, when you, you know, I mean, I guess it's...
not at maybe not in the same boat, but people who are cutters or whatever.
In a way, it's like the concept of like changing your body, changing yourself, maybegetting a tattoo or whatever is like something that you can control when you feel like
(03:28):
you're in an impressive situation.
really think about that.
It also is relevant to gender transition and gender transition surgery.
Right.
Okay.
It's also relevant because there is a long history, including people like Yoko Ono.
and Maria Abramovich doing this female body art.
And this is how I connect us to the history of women in art, right?
(03:49):
The whole Fluxus movement that Annie and Beth are part of.
And really Yoko Ono did a piece called Cut in Carnegie Hall in either 62 or 64.
Hall, girlfriend.
I swear I didn't know.
I know, but see what I'm saying?
That's how you know we're in the Zeke, guys.
We're connecting with something in the arc.
(04:10):
type of human field that we were giving expression to.
Right.
Right.
That's like, this is a way that people who are oppressed take back power or express theirown soulfulness is by doing physical things that release trauma.
Public as well as this, which is the origin of Dionysus.
(04:30):
The theater started with this catharsis of Greek.
And to the extreme is the, you know, the famous photo of the guy who sets himself on fire.
I mean, that's just, you know, political protest.
So that happened what two years ago, somebody set themselves on fire.
know.
Right.
And these are still very meaningful.
So we're a part of something that's much bigger than ourselves.
(04:50):
And that's partly why it was so instantaneously popular.
Right.
Because there was definitely something bigger than us individually.
The next song seems to be, just from the title, seems to very humorous.
it's not at all.
a very serious song.
It is.
It's about an epidemic.
Yeah, it's sweeping the world.
It has been for ages.
(05:12):
nobody ever talks about this.
It's like so many...
Why don't people talk about it?
Well, hey, Terri, what is it?
It's a taboo subject.
Let's play it.
Yeah.
It's a problem.
There's a problem that...
we need to talk to you about it's serious a real issue yeah i mean i know people aretelling you about new causes and and new things that need to be discussed but no one ever
(05:35):
talked about this is not a dead issue yeah it's not what's the problem the problem withthat did you know
Dead people don't pay any taxes Dead people don't need any money Yeah, I mean really,think about it Think about all those dead people lying around six feet underground in
(05:58):
their best clothes with all that makeup I mean, how pretentious It's like they're gonnaget up and go somewhere or something Right, and they have those big funeral parades for
Think about how much it costs Silly!
It's a people don't clean the kitchen Dead people never take out the trash Dead peopledon't water the plants Dead people don't clean the cat box And you know what?
(06:19):
not even sure if some of know that they're dead because a lot of them just lie around allbloody and cut up and moaning.
They don't even bother to get buried under the ground.
And then we've got to look at them all sick angry.
god, they're love.
(07:06):
Let's see.
well what else do you think about this columbia you know people maybe there's people whodon't know about the art movement columbia as they're you know the really hasn't been a
good credit or anything like that but it's a sure it's just it's just so many things thatfollowed by feds i mean yeah that which it's like i think people are drawn into the art
(07:27):
movement by who they are in a fake on because it's bujoire or because it's it's been along time and i don't know where it's happening and and we've been called ten easy steps
to becoming an artist is sort of a
It's a parody on, oh yes, you could become an artist too, just wear a black leather jacketand carry around notebooks.
a beret.
Don't eat paper.
(07:50):
Don't get enough sleep Free association.
This is a great free association I did last night.
Listen, oh god, you're gonna love it.
A red fox.
And then the sun comes down.
Bursting into white lights!
Bring it to the world, sister.
Bring it to the world.
firecrackers.
Dig that Buddha groove.
(08:11):
Yeah, mean I feel like at that time period not everybody but there was definitely amovement in different cities of people that were Really taking control of their lives and
their message and their You know kind of in an isolated yet extreme way, you know what Imean?
(08:36):
punk rock thing was.
And that's what I mean when I was saying earlier, we just instantly had this belief andidea that we could publicly perform, right?
And that what we were saying was important.
It was something revolutionary and powerful.
And we know because of Fact Sheet Five and the other mechanisms, there trading tapes, theother mechanism, and you were really good at this, social networking outside of our
(09:05):
specific.
Columbia sphere and reaching out to finding the mycelial network.
how did we know that that was important?
mean, how did you how did we, you know, it's like, I mean, I mean, I always had kind of asense of the homogenous nature of culture, especially at that time.
(09:27):
And I felt that that that if you stepped out of your line, you know, you were maybe not
punished, you were were shunned.
And so all the people that were sort of shunned for stepping out of their lane ended upcoming together.
And what it created was such a powerful movement and underground.
(09:51):
And people talk about underground like underground music, whatever.
It truly was underground.
It was not anything that, you know, mainstream society.
And that's partly what's going on right now with psychedelics.
Like when we were in our 20s, it was this
punk rock thing that we were part of.
And now it's like, mm, okay, altering your consciousness.
(10:11):
And how we knew it was useful is that we were giggling and just gonna show it to ourfriends.
And then from the very first show, was it at the Chautauqua Center?
Chautauqua Center was the first show, we made money, there was people.
then we running around, I didn't remember us going to the mall.
So that was great.
That's a great story.
We were doing on the spot happening.
(10:32):
We were.
And performance art outside of a venue.
So that's what made it underground.
Right.
It was something we're doing with our bodies that we were energetically generating and howwe knew it was important is the response that we got.
Contraceptives.
Arbor.
play it.
(10:52):
You know.
The thing that really bugs me is about contraceptives.
They're messy.
You can't find one that'll actually work 100%.
You never know.
Well, you know what I think.
(11:13):
Dial frames and IUDs Falling out between my knees My boyfriend poked his ding-a-ling On myIUD string
Then he pulled out really quick, said, what's that poking on my dick?
It's just my IUD string.
He said, I don't want to touch that thing.
(11:36):
Contraceptors are a bore.
I don't want them anymore.
They cost me lots of hard-earned cash.
Always got to keep them stashed.
Once my sponge got stuck up there During a brand new affair My old boyfriend came by forlunch Honey, I can't reach my sponge He said, relax, I'll get it
(12:02):
I know what your vagina's like I said, wow, thank you Mike After all, what are friendsfor?
And I still say Contraceptives are a bore I don't want them anymore They were all made bymen I can't even get them in
(12:23):
The pill is like a vitamin It makes me ill and my head spins But you can have sex anytimeSo all the men think it's fine But it makes me fat, I cry all day So I don't wanna have
sex anyway Contraceptors are a bore I don't want them anymore They cost me lots ofhard-earned cash And I always gotta keep them stashed
(12:55):
Rubbers stickin' in the trash, spermicide gives me a rash.
Why can't scientists discover a way to keep me from becoming a mother?
I know it's just biology, but all this monthly I wonder if I'm gonna have baby It'sfrustrating the hell out of me Contraceptives are a bore, I don't want them anymore I have
(13:25):
sex and still be free from hassles and uncertainty
Contraceptives are a bore, contraceptives are a bore, contraceptives are a bore,contraceptives are a bore.
That was great.
Another another that should go to the top of the billboard charts if this weren't the 80sright?
(13:57):
He wouldn't
What like you know I can all get it out old boss of mine said that you're in the art slotI said why are you saying it that way because you named yourself?
(14:26):
said I said well if it didn't trip you out so much you wouldn't say it like that.
It's no big deal It's true.
They say art what yeah, yeah, what tell my mother you know I'm in a band in the arts.
Let's what the arts lot
It's a five letter word mother.
(14:48):
Wefster says slut is a dirty untidy careless woman.
And we're all definitely untidy.
Wrong day.
Yes right, give me two more days.
Okay, just don't take off your hat, who knows what's underneath it.
It was a few weeks before the Memorial Union UMC show.
(15:11):
And at that show we had the spray painted t-shirts that said art sluts and we wore cutevintage dresses over them and shredded the dress.
That's right.
I forgot about that.
right.
I wrote down sluts, just even saying sluts, right?
Yes.
That we were women speaking openly of our own physical and sexual desires directly,crassly.
Yeah.
(15:32):
Right?
With wanting sex, saying that we wanted sex.
That was still very taboo then.
And saying that we wanted sex was a way that we were genderqueer.
a way that we were acting like men.
Right.
Right.
I heard quite a bit of, you know, was 40 years ago.
But some of the things I was saying on the podcast, the radio interview, were quite genderessentialist about the differences between men and women.
(15:54):
don't, I don't feel that way now.
Right.
But I was definitely speaking in a very essentialist way that men were like this and womenwere like this.
They were very different.
And I think that's another thing that's kind of dated about what, what we did is that wewere definitely, it was the perspective of you were
male or you were a female and it was that specific oppression.
(16:22):
and onto other places.
the Midwest.
We really would like to tour this summer, it's totally a matter of finances and planning.
And if we're supposed to tour, everything will fall into place and we'll just go.
If the hand is guiding you from the top, you'll do it, right?
I don't really feel that much guided.
(16:44):
It's more like if path opens up in front, we can go.
Yeah.
you're planning to send this demo tape out to various record companies and labels andpeople?
No.
No?
No.
want to play.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
And maybe a few radio stations.
Places that'll give us like airtime.
(17:05):
We want to stick to mainly performance for while.
We can make money on that.
can quit our real life jobs and do what we want to be doing.
mean, what a drag to be pasted to a record album.
I mean, that'd be boring.
I'd rather be on stage.
It'd be really gross.
record album.
We'd have to have pop-up cutouts of ourselves.
(17:29):
way they could see us and wiggle the record cover.
Look for that one in the future.
Actually, our first tape that we actually make beyond the demo.
Is that a secret?
We wanted to package it like a tampon box and put a string on the end of the cassette.
(17:55):
Yes, pull it out of the box.
fits a cassette that fits perfectly into a 10 size for your protection.
But candor and honesty you can trust.
You can also make your own record label or tape label and name it something just as funny.
Yeah, we've got our copyright.
(18:15):
So, tell me what are your plans for playing live in Columbia and elsewhere in the nearfuture?
We're going to be playing on campus at the Memorial Union Auditorium on the 22nd duringWomen's Week at 8 o'clock.
Friday night?
Yeah, the 22nd.
Yeah.
(18:35):
And she playing Kansas City in the near future?
Playing March 16th at the Full Killer in Kansas City.
And then we're playing for Women's Week at KOPN.
Up at KOPN during Women's Week and during their open house March 3rd on Sunday.
That'll be on the air of course.
Sounds good.
March 3rd.
And things come up all the time, you know, just spontaneous like yeah, yeah Like you saidwhen it warms up watch out Columbia All right.
(19:06):
The next song we have is we are not equal Why don't you guys talk a little bit about this?
You know seems like a pretty caustic statement we could yeah forever
One of the things, this is just a personal comment.
But one of the things that I always felt estranged by, the things like the ERA, the equalrights, then just thinking about things like being equal to men, that's an impossibility
(19:37):
that could never happen, that will never happen.
Well, but the push is, like you say in the song, the push has been on for women to be moreand more like men.
To get along in the To get along in And women are doing essential difference between malesand females.
They're different.
They have different genders.
You know, have different genitals and they will never be equal because it's an inherentdifference.
(20:01):
So why do we try to push to...
Not only the difference in sexes, but the difference in people in general too, just...
being able to get beyond stereotypes, beyond images.
And also the whole idea of this song has to do with just in the last century, mainly thelast 30 or 40 years, this push on to have women not eat so that they can waste away and
(20:26):
die.
And all the models who have very, you know, they look like men.
Most of the top models these days are very flat chested.
have very slim hips.
no hips.
No stomach, very long legs.
Muscular.
Yeah, right.
They're very much like men, you know?
It's like, let's hold up this image of women and look like men and call them the mostbeautiful women we've ever seen.
(20:48):
Or little girls.
Yeah, the boy.
The little bondage crap.
14 year old bondage.
The helpless little pine tails and little...
Anyway, that's what this is about.
Well, let's hear it.
I'm not your Barbie doll.
I'm not a convenience store.
I am not your mother.
I'm not your hole.
I am not your...
Your secretary, I am not.
(21:10):
Your analyst, I am not.
Your maid, I am not.
Your pet, I am not a girl.
We are not equal.
I am a woman.
I am a woman.
I am not.
know last summer I worked in a sweatshop, better known as the North Village Sub ShopBakery.
Sometimes it would get up to 135 degrees back there in the summer and my body wasn't usedto it.
(21:36):
I lost about 25 pounds in two months.
But everyone started telling me, hey Pam, you look really good.
You look really healthy.
But I didn't feel healthy.
I had headaches all the time and threw up a lot.
But I kind of got off on the fact that everyone thought I was attractive.
I want to say something about images in our society.
(21:56):
We have a history of images and as long as we buy into them they become real.
In China for centuries they bound women's feet.
It was normal.
Men were attracted to women with small crippled feet.
And in 15th century Europe millions of women were burned as witches because they didn'tfit the norm.
In parts of Africa they still cut out women's clitorises and sew up their vaginas so mencan have a tight fit.
(22:22):
In 20th century America, we have high-heeled shoes so we can run, so we can't run fromdanger, so we slip on ice.
We wear clothes that bind so we can't move freely.
And we are constantly reminded, through the media and each other, that thin is attractive.
During the Renaissance, women were portrayed as being full, figured, and voluptuous.
(22:43):
A woman with fat on her body was considered attractive.
A woman who was thin obviously was too poor to eat well.
Today in America, a woman who is fat either hates herself or has hormone problems or isusing it as a defense mechanism against men.
A woman who literally starves herself to fit the ideal image of success, who eats dietpills, speed, who works out for the sole reason of losing weight.
(23:09):
This is what is attractive in America.
For those of us who can never attain this ideal, we hate our bodies.
We look in the mirror and groan.
We will for the rest of our lives feel uncomfortable in a body given to us by nature.
Isn't it strange that at a time when women are becoming stronger, when we are finallybecoming more vocal, when we are standing up for what we believe in, the push is on not
(23:34):
only to be equal to them and act like them to get along in their world, but to look likethem.
Bind those breasts, that stomach, build up those muscles, but not too much, and dosomething about those hips.
Be thin, be childlike.
But don't be a woman.
A woman's body is disgusting.
It makes babies and it bleeds.
(23:55):
We cannot accept the fact that we have women's bodies, that we have rounded bellies,rounded breasts, rounded hips, that we are soft and fleshy.
In 20th century America, we have anorexia nervosa and bulimia, diseases common among womentoday.
How many women do know that aren't on a diet?
(24:16):
How many women do you know that don't know exactly how much they weigh?
We are obsessed.
While people in Ethiopia literally die from lack of food, we die because we're afraid ofit.
We feel guilty for eating it.
Food sustains our bodies.
Food makes us healthy.
Food is for the living.
I refuse to become an image of man.
(24:37):
I don't want to be equal to that.
I will not act like men or look like them.
At a time when women finally have their foot in the door, that foot cannot be attached toa wasted life starving for acceptance.
We are all products of our environment.
I will no longer be a product of victim mentality.
It's real and it's wrong and what needs to be changed will be changed because we do notgive up that easy.
(25:01):
I am transforming.
I am the giver of life.
I am a woman.
I am not your maid.
I am not your pet.
I am not a girl.
We are not equal.
I am a woman.
I am a woman.
When you guys performed that, and when you do perform it, what is the response to thatsong?
(25:25):
It's got a standing ovation at the blue note.
Yeah, people are quiet and very attentive.
It's pretty amazing.
But it was also the point where, see that's the people that were sitting in front of uswhen we did it at the Bluenot.
This is the song where in the middle of this song the fraternity boys started to sing,drink motherfuckers, drink motherfuckers and cheer each other and you know obviously it
(25:46):
was just too much of them to handle because it's...
It's so real.
I mean it's hard for me to listen to that song when Pam presented her rap with that I wasblown away because...
It hurts.
I mean even though you know I like to consider myself you know like work through somethings there's still the stuff
she's talking about is really real.
It affects all women.
I think there's very few women that have gotten beyond that.
(26:08):
It's just so true.
Anywhere, at school, at work, anywhere in your life, you run into women.
One of the things that we were talking about one day was that a room full of people, menand women, how many men do you know that would say something bad about their bodies that
would say, you know, I really don't like my body, it's really My hips are kind of bummingme out this week because I think I gained two pounds when I ate that cheesecake and stuff.
(26:35):
hear that but you hear women willingly constantly talking about how much they can't standtheir also the fact that if you notice there's no huge great assortment of male magazines
that emulate a male physical image where there's tons of female magazines that just pushit on you.
How many times do you see a man on TV saying, yes fellows, 16 hour accutum now for you toslim down.
(27:01):
Another interesting topic I don't think we've covered.
We were talking about the Blue Note show and the response of the frat boys.
That's hilarious.
I think it's very...
Remember how weird that was?
It was like kind of empowering and a little bit scary because I remember that there wereseveral cars that had their windshields smashed also that night.
(27:25):
Yeah, that's true.
That's right.
But the polarization and the influence of violence in tribalism is really frightening.
And at that time, I mean, we were pretty fearless anyway, you know, I guess because we hadeach other too.
We weren't just standing up there by ourselves, but.
Well, we were, yeah, we were also doing other protests, right?
(27:47):
I had just, well, I went on to be in the shantytown that we built when I was in gradschool on the lawn and we lived in it.
We did that shirt free protests in the park.
think those things actually launched out of the arts, let's say, because I think thisprotest was in 86.
And I know that I went to graduate school in 86, in the fall of 86.
Right.
So where did we just from being with each other?
(28:08):
Yeah.
Well, you know, and we knew this seems obvious, but naming yourself Artslutz wasautomatically going to draw some people that were like, oh, yeah, know, loose women, you
know, they're going to be performing and stripping or what, which we did.
Right.
In our own way.
All the time.
(28:30):
All right.
You have one more song that's on the tape.
called Space.
Is that?
It's about another one of my messed up relationship.
Why did you name Well that one also became a moving vehicle.
Yeah, we were driving.
I was really angry at this person so I just started yelling, space up!
(28:50):
started singing behind her.
Yeah, that's how this Cole Porter's song.
Cole Porter's song.
Alright, let's start.
This next song is called Space.
There's a little bit about interparticipation.
Don't be scared.
Just move when she gets you to test participate.
Test participate.
(29:14):
I went over to see him because I really like his place.
But you know what he said when I walked in the door?
said, baby, I just need some space.
And I said, hey, that's cool, because I need some space too.
Wiggles, just me little space.
But I wanted to scream inside my head, yeah, space.
Like isn't that the whole idea for you to be in your space and me to be in my space?
(29:35):
So can be alone together, together alone.
We sit together on the couch, but we're a million miles away.
You with your cat.
and me with my childhood and there's plenty of space lots of space glorious space betweenyou and me oh god it just drives me crazy i don't know what to say we there's no sense in
(29:56):
it why should we even be around each other when we're both too nervous to care foranything to be able to cherish anything but space dead space empty space between you and
me well i'm tired of building walls and i'm tired of running away i'm tired of
I'm too intense.
I just don't need it anymore.
(30:17):
just don't need it.
we don't like to be categorized as a feminist band because it's not all it cuts us offfrom not only men but it also cuts us off from women who look at some stuff you know some
(30:41):
women and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and andand and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
But that doesn't mean that you know I mean the group is obviously more than just me and Ihope that everything that we create is bigger than ourselves The group is also very
(31:09):
anti-label.
Yeah, just in nature.
Yeah, that's what I that's what I was trying to say, but she was better with concise wordsIt's not enough it doesn't you know it would be the Venn diagram
That's right.
(31:30):
And we're an entire universe.
Okay, well that was great, you guys summed that up real well.
What can I say after that?
You guys seem to touch on more than just issues that affect you personally, you to touchon world issues sometimes too.
The effect is personal.
Well yeah, there was a poem that one of you guys read at one of your last shows about,didn't you write it?
(31:55):
It's about Ronald Reagan.
Terrible responsibility.
Yeah, yeah, you read that to me at the store and that was really, really good.
It was just real, I don't know, intense.
Thank you so well you guys want to talk about the next song it's called nice guys wellThat was our second song we ever wrote.
Yeah, I wrote it because we still love it this guy asked me out that I Couldn't understandwhy he was attracted to me because he was so conventional such a nice guy Yeah, and Sheila
(32:25):
knew him and so she gave me the lowdown on him and I it was like he wanted to see Wow Sofriendly and so nice that I didn't want to just say no.
I don't want to go out with you, but
But I kind of just kept staying away from him, but I wrote this song anyway, and he'sprobably heard it, and I'm terribly embarrassed.
But anyway, I did it.
(32:53):
He's got a water bed He's got a VCR He's even got a red sports car But I don't wanna goout with him anyway I don't wanna go out with him anyway
(33:19):
He's tall.
Six foot two.
He's got a great body.
Nice buns.
He's even got a real good job.
But I don't wanna go out with him anyway.
(33:39):
I don't wanna go out with him anyway.
He sponsors softball teams.
Hit him, Joe.
He doesn't do cocaine.
Not up his nose.
He even watches MTV.
(34:01):
But I don't want to go out with him anyway.
I don't want to go out with
He's a nice guy.
Nice What?
You know those nice guys?
I don't I like nice guys.
(34:24):
They clip their nose hairs.
I just don't fold their underwear.
I just don't like them.
I just don't.
I hate little E.
I just don't.
don't them.
don't like them.
don't I don't like them.
They make me sick.
Fuck them.
(34:44):
The spinning wheel just spinning and spinning.
is.
I think this is a good time to kind of wrap it up.
Final thing I was going to say is that Women's March is January 18th.
Yes.
And I'm sure there's going to be something going on in Atlanta, but I definitely plan tojust saw it on Facebook.
It's like, fuck Trump, we're doing it anyway.
I would also just, I'm going to send you a list of the women performers that I think youshould look at because our work can stand in comparison to it.
(35:14):
Well, and I can also post that on the description of the website, the podcast, I mean.
So.
Yeah, yeah, that's great.
Thanks for listening to Art Slutz Radio.
Hey, if you identify with the Art Slutz, explore our herstory at artslutz.net.
That's A-R-T-S-L-U-T-S dot net.
(35:36):
And purchase downloads of our music wherever you stream music.
All contributions and purchases will go to support Planned Parenthood.
Currently, 21 states have limited access to women's health care.
including abortion, and 15 of those have a total ban.
Talking about your abortion experience, voting and donating to support abortion rightswill make a difference.
(36:07):
Please!
It's just my music, baby
So
So we fucked it.
Welcome back, slabs!
Let's continue with part two of the Art Sluts radio interview from 1985.
(00:25):
That turned out really nice.
Yes.
When did you guys record this demo tape?
On the,
something of something.
The box says...
27th of January.
It sounds very very real casual.
I mean a lot of people when they record, you know for the first time Stiffen up, but youguys, you know seem just pull it off.
(00:49):
We had a great atmosphere.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
(01:10):
well that's...
They're belly-grown coffee beans.
Boone County.
We also wanted to just maintain like that we wanted to communicate the way we are on stagethrough the demo because on stage it's impossible.
Yeah, it's impossible.
(01:31):
Yeah, we're kind of you know into performance art and we have a lot of props.
didn't know I was until I saw myself on videotape and I realized that I'm really strange.
We jump around a lot and make obscene gestures and all kinds of weird stuff.
I guess that was at the Chez Cafe.
(01:53):
You cut your hair.
You were reading a poem and you got so carried away with it.
And I've talked to many people who are very affected by that, positively.
It was very emotional for them as well as for you.
Yeah, that was really intense.
Actually what happened was it was planned.
This was when Lori Creason was in the band and she's done a lot of theater work and shesaid, you know, why don't you cut your hair on your nighttime fable poem, which is a poem
(02:17):
about street hassling and
and the whole territoriality thing with women being outside at night and being in man'sterritory.
Anyway, and so I didn't tell anyone else in the band that I was gonna cut my hair.
And my hair was pretty long on the side anyway.
And so I just pulled out these scissors and started cutting.
And then it was followed by Angie's song, which is a very powerful song Pam sings.
(02:40):
And half the women at the Shae were just in tears and I was in tears and we were all intears.
It was just intense.
For me, what that act was, it was not like a conscious, I was not trying to communicatesomething specific, but when I look at it in a retrospect, I realized that it was my
(03:02):
inability to express the oppression that I was feeling.
And I couldn't even identify it specifically at that time.
you know, when you, you know, I mean, I guess it's...
not at maybe not in the same boat, but people who are cutters or whatever.
In a way, it's like the concept of like changing your body, changing yourself, maybegetting a tattoo or whatever is like something that you can control when you feel like
(03:28):
you're in an impressive situation.
really think about that.
It also is relevant to gender transition and gender transition surgery.
Right.
Okay.
It's also relevant because there is a long history, including people like Yoko Ono.
and Maria Abramovich doing this female body art.
And this is how I connect us to the history of women in art, right?
(03:49):
The whole Fluxus movement that Annie and Beth are part of.
And really Yoko Ono did a piece called Cut in Carnegie Hall in either 62 or 64.
Hall, girlfriend.
I swear I didn't know.
I know, but see what I'm saying?
That's how you know we're in the Zeke, guys.
We're connecting with something in the arc.
(04:10):
type of human field that we were giving expression to.
Right.
Right.
That's like, this is a way that people who are oppressed take back power or express theirown soulfulness is by doing physical things that release trauma.
Public as well as this, which is the origin of Dionysus.
(04:30):
The theater started with this catharsis of Greek.
And to the extreme is the, you know, the famous photo of the guy who sets himself on fire.
I mean, that's just, you know, political protest.
So that happened what two years ago, somebody set themselves on fire.
know.
Right.
And these are still very meaningful.
So we're a part of something that's much bigger than ourselves.
(04:50):
And that's partly why it was so instantaneously popular.
Right.
Because there was definitely something bigger than us individually.
The next song seems to be, just from the title, seems to very humorous.
it's not at all.
a very serious song.
It is.
It's about an epidemic.
Yeah, it's sweeping the world.
It has been for ages.
(05:12):
nobody ever talks about this.
It's like so many...
Why don't people talk about it?
Well, hey, Terri, what is it?
It's a taboo subject.
Let's play it.
Yeah.
It's a problem.
There's a problem that...
we need to talk to you about it's serious a real issue yeah i mean i know people aretelling you about new causes and and new things that need to be discussed but no one ever
(05:35):
talked about this is not a dead issue yeah it's not what's the problem the problem withthat did you know
Dead people don't pay any taxes Dead people don't need any money Yeah, I mean really,think about it Think about all those dead people lying around six feet underground in
(05:58):
their best clothes with all that makeup I mean, how pretentious It's like they're gonnaget up and go somewhere or something Right, and they have those big funeral parades for
Think about how much it costs Silly!
It's a people don't clean the kitchen Dead people never take out the trash Dead peopledon't water the plants Dead people don't clean the cat box And you know what?
(06:19):
not even sure if some of know that they're dead because a lot of them just lie around allbloody and cut up and moaning.
They don't even bother to get buried under the ground.
And then we've got to look at them all sick angry.
god, they're love.
(07:06):
Let's see.
well what else do you think about this columbia you know people maybe there's people whodon't know about the art movement columbia as they're you know the really hasn't been a
good credit or anything like that but it's a sure it's just it's just so many things thatfollowed by feds i mean yeah that which it's like i think people are drawn into the art
(07:27):
movement by who they are in a fake on because it's bujoire or because it's it's been along time and i don't know where it's happening and and we've been called ten easy steps
to becoming an artist is sort of a
It's a parody on, oh yes, you could become an artist too, just wear a black leather jacketand carry around notebooks.
a beret.
Don't eat paper.
(07:50):
Don't get enough sleep Free association.
This is a great free association I did last night.
Listen, oh god, you're gonna love it.
A red fox.
And then the sun comes down.
Bursting into white lights!
Bring it to the world, sister.
Bring it to the world.
firecrackers.
Dig that Buddha groove.
(08:11):
Yeah, mean I feel like at that time period not everybody but there was definitely amovement in different cities of people that were Really taking control of their lives and
their message and their You know kind of in an isolated yet extreme way, you know what Imean?
(08:36):
punk rock thing was.
And that's what I mean when I was saying earlier, we just instantly had this belief andidea that we could publicly perform, right?
And that what we were saying was important.
It was something revolutionary and powerful.
And we know because of Fact Sheet Five and the other mechanisms, there trading tapes, theother mechanism, and you were really good at this, social networking outside of our
(09:05):
specific.
Columbia sphere and reaching out to finding the mycelial network.
how did we know that that was important?
mean, how did you how did we, you know, it's like, I mean, I mean, I always had kind of asense of the homogenous nature of culture, especially at that time.
(09:27):
And I felt that that that if you stepped out of your line, you know, you were maybe not
punished, you were were shunned.
And so all the people that were sort of shunned for stepping out of their lane ended upcoming together.
And what it created was such a powerful movement and underground.
(09:51):
And people talk about underground like underground music, whatever.
It truly was underground.
It was not anything that, you know, mainstream society.
And that's partly what's going on right now with psychedelics.
Like when we were in our 20s, it was this
punk rock thing that we were part of.
And now it's like, mm, okay, altering your consciousness.
(10:11):
And how we knew it was useful is that we were giggling and just gonna show it to ourfriends.
And then from the very first show, was it at the Chautauqua Center?
Chautauqua Center was the first show, we made money, there was people.
then we running around, I didn't remember us going to the mall.
So that was great.
That's a great story.
We were doing on the spot happening.
(10:32):
We were.
And performance art outside of a venue.
So that's what made it underground.
Right.
It was something we're doing with our bodies that we were energetically generating and howwe knew it was important is the response that we got.
Contraceptives.
Arbor.
play it.
(10:52):
You know.
The thing that really bugs me is about contraceptives.
They're messy.
You can't find one that'll actually work 100%.
You never know.
Well, you know what I think.
(11:13):
Dial frames and IUDs Falling out between my knees My boyfriend poked his ding-a-ling On myIUD string
Then he pulled out really quick, said, what's that poking on my dick?
It's just my IUD string.
He said, I don't want to touch that thing.
(11:36):
Contraceptors are a bore.
I don't want them anymore.
They cost me lots of hard-earned cash.
Always got to keep them stashed.
Once my sponge got stuck up there During a brand new affair My old boyfriend came by forlunch Honey, I can't reach my sponge He said, relax, I'll get it
(12:02):
I know what your vagina's like I said, wow, thank you Mike After all, what are friendsfor?
And I still say Contraceptives are a bore I don't want them anymore They were all made bymen I can't even get them in
(12:23):
The pill is like a vitamin It makes me ill and my head spins But you can have sex anytimeSo all the men think it's fine But it makes me fat, I cry all day So I don't wanna have
sex anyway Contraceptors are a bore I don't want them anymore They cost me lots ofhard-earned cash And I always gotta keep them stashed
(12:55):
Rubbers stickin' in the trash, spermicide gives me a rash.
Why can't scientists discover a way to keep me from becoming a mother?
I know it's just biology, but all this monthly I wonder if I'm gonna have baby It'sfrustrating the hell out of me Contraceptives are a bore, I don't want them anymore I have
(13:25):
sex and still be free from hassles and uncertainty
Contraceptives are a bore, contraceptives are a bore, contraceptives are a bore,contraceptives are a bore.
That was great.
Another another that should go to the top of the billboard charts if this weren't the 80sright?
(13:57):
He wouldn't
What like you know I can all get it out old boss of mine said that you're in the art slotI said why are you saying it that way because you named yourself?
(14:26):
said I said well if it didn't trip you out so much you wouldn't say it like that.
It's no big deal It's true.
They say art what yeah, yeah, what tell my mother you know I'm in a band in the arts.
Let's what the arts lot
It's a five letter word mother.
(14:48):
Wefster says slut is a dirty untidy careless woman.
And we're all definitely untidy.
Wrong day.
Yes right, give me two more days.
Okay, just don't take off your hat, who knows what's underneath it.
It was a few weeks before the Memorial Union UMC show.
(15:11):
And at that show we had the spray painted t-shirts that said art sluts and we wore cutevintage dresses over them and shredded the dress.
That's right.
I forgot about that.
right.
I wrote down sluts, just even saying sluts, right?
Yes.
That we were women speaking openly of our own physical and sexual desires directly,crassly.
Yeah.
(15:32):
Right?
With wanting sex, saying that we wanted sex.
That was still very taboo then.
And saying that we wanted sex was a way that we were genderqueer.
a way that we were acting like men.
Right.
Right.
I heard quite a bit of, you know, was 40 years ago.
But some of the things I was saying on the podcast, the radio interview, were quite genderessentialist about the differences between men and women.
(15:54):
don't, I don't feel that way now.
Right.
But I was definitely speaking in a very essentialist way that men were like this and womenwere like this.
They were very different.
And I think that's another thing that's kind of dated about what, what we did is that wewere definitely, it was the perspective of you were
male or you were a female and it was that specific oppression.
(16:22):
and onto other places.
the Midwest.
We really would like to tour this summer, it's totally a matter of finances and planning.
And if we're supposed to tour, everything will fall into place and we'll just go.
If the hand is guiding you from the top, you'll do it, right?
I don't really feel that much guided.
(16:44):
It's more like if path opens up in front, we can go.
Yeah.
you're planning to send this demo tape out to various record companies and labels andpeople?
No.
No?
No.
want to play.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
And maybe a few radio stations.
Places that'll give us like airtime.
(17:05):
We want to stick to mainly performance for while.
We can make money on that.
can quit our real life jobs and do what we want to be doing.
mean, what a drag to be pasted to a record album.
I mean, that'd be boring.
I'd rather be on stage.
It'd be really gross.
record album.
We'd have to have pop-up cutouts of ourselves.
(17:29):
way they could see us and wiggle the record cover.
Look for that one in the future.
Actually, our first tape that we actually make beyond the demo.
Is that a secret?
We wanted to package it like a tampon box and put a string on the end of the cassette.
(17:55):
Yes, pull it out of the box.
fits a cassette that fits perfectly into a 10 size for your protection.
But candor and honesty you can trust.
You can also make your own record label or tape label and name it something just as funny.
Yeah, we've got our copyright.
(18:15):
So, tell me what are your plans for playing live in Columbia and elsewhere in the nearfuture?
We're going to be playing on campus at the Memorial Union Auditorium on the 22nd duringWomen's Week at 8 o'clock.
Friday night?
Yeah, the 22nd.
Yeah.
(18:35):
And she playing Kansas City in the near future?
Playing March 16th at the Full Killer in Kansas City.
And then we're playing for Women's Week at KOPN.
Up at KOPN during Women's Week and during their open house March 3rd on Sunday.
That'll be on the air of course.
Sounds good.
March 3rd.
And things come up all the time, you know, just spontaneous like yeah, yeah Like you saidwhen it warms up watch out Columbia All right.
(19:06):
The next song we have is we are not equal Why don't you guys talk a little bit about this?
You know seems like a pretty caustic statement we could yeah forever
One of the things, this is just a personal comment.
But one of the things that I always felt estranged by, the things like the ERA, the equalrights, then just thinking about things like being equal to men, that's an impossibility
(19:37):
that could never happen, that will never happen.
Well, but the push is, like you say in the song, the push has been on for women to be moreand more like men.
To get along in the To get along in And women are doing essential difference between malesand females.
They're different.
They have different genders.
You know, have different genitals and they will never be equal because it's an inherentdifference.
(20:01):
So why do we try to push to...
Not only the difference in sexes, but the difference in people in general too, just...
being able to get beyond stereotypes, beyond images.
And also the whole idea of this song has to do with just in the last century, mainly thelast 30 or 40 years, this push on to have women not eat so that they can waste away and
(20:26):
die.
And all the models who have very, you know, they look like men.
Most of the top models these days are very flat chested.
have very slim hips.
no hips.
No stomach, very long legs.
Muscular.
Yeah, right.
They're very much like men, you know?
It's like, let's hold up this image of women and look like men and call them the mostbeautiful women we've ever seen.
(20:48):
Or little girls.
Yeah, the boy.
The little bondage crap.
14 year old bondage.
The helpless little pine tails and little...
Anyway, that's what this is about.
Well, let's hear it.
I'm not your Barbie doll.
I'm not a convenience store.
I am not your mother.
I'm not your hole.
I am not your...
Your secretary, I am not.
(21:10):
Your analyst, I am not.
Your maid, I am not.
Your pet, I am not a girl.
We are not equal.
I am a woman.
I am a woman.
I am not.
know last summer I worked in a sweatshop, better known as the North Village Sub ShopBakery.
Sometimes it would get up to 135 degrees back there in the summer and my body wasn't usedto it.
(21:36):
I lost about 25 pounds in two months.
But everyone started telling me, hey Pam, you look really good.
You look really healthy.
But I didn't feel healthy.
I had headaches all the time and threw up a lot.
But I kind of got off on the fact that everyone thought I was attractive.
I want to say something about images in our society.
(21:56):
We have a history of images and as long as we buy into them they become real.
In China for centuries they bound women's feet.
It was normal.
Men were attracted to women with small crippled feet.
And in 15th century Europe millions of women were burned as witches because they didn'tfit the norm.
In parts of Africa they still cut out women's clitorises and sew up their vaginas so mencan have a tight fit.
(22:22):
In 20th century America, we have high-heeled shoes so we can run, so we can't run fromdanger, so we slip on ice.
We wear clothes that bind so we can't move freely.
And we are constantly reminded, through the media and each other, that thin is attractive.
During the Renaissance, women were portrayed as being full, figured, and voluptuous.
(22:43):
A woman with fat on her body was considered attractive.
A woman who was thin obviously was too poor to eat well.
Today in America, a woman who is fat either hates herself or has hormone problems or isusing it as a defense mechanism against men.
A woman who literally starves herself to fit the ideal image of success, who eats dietpills, speed, who works out for the sole reason of losing weight.
(23:09):
This is what is attractive in America.
For those of us who can never attain this ideal, we hate our bodies.
We look in the mirror and groan.
We will for the rest of our lives feel uncomfortable in a body given to us by nature.
Isn't it strange that at a time when women are becoming stronger, when we are finallybecoming more vocal, when we are standing up for what we believe in, the push is on not
(23:34):
only to be equal to them and act like them to get along in their world, but to look likethem.
Bind those breasts, that stomach, build up those muscles, but not too much, and dosomething about those hips.
Be thin, be childlike.
But don't be a woman.
A woman's body is disgusting.
It makes babies and it bleeds.
(23:55):
We cannot accept the fact that we have women's bodies, that we have rounded bellies,rounded breasts, rounded hips, that we are soft and fleshy.
In 20th century America, we have anorexia nervosa and bulimia, diseases common among womentoday.
How many women do know that aren't on a diet?
(24:16):
How many women do you know that don't know exactly how much they weigh?
We are obsessed.
While people in Ethiopia literally die from lack of food, we die because we're afraid ofit.
We feel guilty for eating it.
Food sustains our bodies.
Food makes us healthy.
Food is for the living.
I refuse to become an image of man.
(24:37):
I don't want to be equal to that.
I will not act like men or look like them.
At a time when women finally have their foot in the door, that foot cannot be attached toa wasted life starving for acceptance.
We are all products of our environment.
I will no longer be a product of victim mentality.
It's real and it's wrong and what needs to be changed will be changed because we do notgive up that easy.
(25:01):
I am transforming.
I am the giver of life.
I am a woman.
I am not your maid.
I am not your pet.
I am not a girl.
We are not equal.
I am a woman.
I am a woman.
When you guys performed that, and when you do perform it, what is the response to thatsong?
(25:25):
It's got a standing ovation at the blue note.
Yeah, people are quiet and very attentive.
It's pretty amazing.
But it was also the point where, see that's the people that were sitting in front of uswhen we did it at the Bluenot.
This is the song where in the middle of this song the fraternity boys started to sing,drink motherfuckers, drink motherfuckers and cheer each other and you know obviously it
(25:46):
was just too much of them to handle because it's...
It's so real.
I mean it's hard for me to listen to that song when Pam presented her rap with that I wasblown away because...
It hurts.
I mean even though you know I like to consider myself you know like work through somethings there's still the stuff
she's talking about is really real.
It affects all women.
I think there's very few women that have gotten beyond that.
(26:08):
It's just so true.
Anywhere, at school, at work, anywhere in your life, you run into women.
One of the things that we were talking about one day was that a room full of people, menand women, how many men do you know that would say something bad about their bodies that
would say, you know, I really don't like my body, it's really My hips are kind of bummingme out this week because I think I gained two pounds when I ate that cheesecake and stuff.
(26:35):
hear that but you hear women willingly constantly talking about how much they can't standtheir also the fact that if you notice there's no huge great assortment of male magazines
that emulate a male physical image where there's tons of female magazines that just pushit on you.
How many times do you see a man on TV saying, yes fellows, 16 hour accutum now for you toslim down.
(27:01):
Another interesting topic I don't think we've covered.
We were talking about the Blue Note show and the response of the frat boys.
That's hilarious.
I think it's very...
Remember how weird that was?
It was like kind of empowering and a little bit scary because I remember that there wereseveral cars that had their windshields smashed also that night.
(27:25):
Yeah, that's true.
That's right.
But the polarization and the influence of violence in tribalism is really frightening.
And at that time, I mean, we were pretty fearless anyway, you know, I guess because we hadeach other too.
We weren't just standing up there by ourselves, but.
Well, we were, yeah, we were also doing other protests, right?
(27:47):
I had just, well, I went on to be in the shantytown that we built when I was in gradschool on the lawn and we lived in it.
We did that shirt free protests in the park.
think those things actually launched out of the arts, let's say, because I think thisprotest was in 86.
And I know that I went to graduate school in 86, in the fall of 86.
Right.
So where did we just from being with each other?
(28:08):
Yeah.
Well, you know, and we knew this seems obvious, but naming yourself Artslutz wasautomatically going to draw some people that were like, oh, yeah, know, loose women, you
know, they're going to be performing and stripping or what, which we did.
Right.
In our own way.
All the time.
(28:30):
All right.
You have one more song that's on the tape.
called Space.
Is that?
It's about another one of my messed up relationship.
Why did you name Well that one also became a moving vehicle.
Yeah, we were driving.
I was really angry at this person so I just started yelling, space up!
(28:50):
started singing behind her.
Yeah, that's how this Cole Porter's song.
Cole Porter's song.
Alright, let's start.
This next song is called Space.
There's a little bit about interparticipation.
Don't be scared.
Just move when she gets you to test participate.
Test participate.
(29:14):
I went over to see him because I really like his place.
But you know what he said when I walked in the door?
said, baby, I just need some space.
And I said, hey, that's cool, because I need some space too.
Wiggles, just me little space.
But I wanted to scream inside my head, yeah, space.
Like isn't that the whole idea for you to be in your space and me to be in my space?
(29:35):
So can be alone together, together alone.
We sit together on the couch, but we're a million miles away.
You with your cat.
and me with my childhood and there's plenty of space lots of space glorious space betweenyou and me oh god it just drives me crazy i don't know what to say we there's no sense in
(29:56):
it why should we even be around each other when we're both too nervous to care foranything to be able to cherish anything but space dead space empty space between you and
me well i'm tired of building walls and i'm tired of running away i'm tired of
I'm too intense.
I just don't need it anymore.
(30:17):
just don't need it.
we don't like to be categorized as a feminist band because it's not all it cuts us offfrom not only men but it also cuts us off from women who look at some stuff you know some
(30:41):
women and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and andand and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
But that doesn't mean that you know I mean the group is obviously more than just me and Ihope that everything that we create is bigger than ourselves The group is also very
(31:09):
anti-label.
Yeah, just in nature.
Yeah, that's what I that's what I was trying to say, but she was better with concise wordsIt's not enough it doesn't you know it would be the Venn diagram
That's right.
(31:30):
And we're an entire universe.
Okay, well that was great, you guys summed that up real well.
What can I say after that?
You guys seem to touch on more than just issues that affect you personally, you to touchon world issues sometimes too.
The effect is personal.
Well yeah, there was a poem that one of you guys read at one of your last shows about,didn't you write it?
(31:55):
It's about Ronald Reagan.
Terrible responsibility.
Yeah, yeah, you read that to me at the store and that was really, really good.
It was just real, I don't know, intense.
Thank you so well you guys want to talk about the next song it's called nice guys wellThat was our second song we ever wrote.
Yeah, I wrote it because we still love it this guy asked me out that I Couldn't understandwhy he was attracted to me because he was so conventional such a nice guy Yeah, and Sheila
(32:25):
knew him and so she gave me the lowdown on him and I it was like he wanted to see Wow Sofriendly and so nice that I didn't want to just say no.
I don't want to go out with you, but
But I kind of just kept staying away from him, but I wrote this song anyway, and he'sprobably heard it, and I'm terribly embarrassed.
But anyway, I did it.
(32:53):
He's got a water bed He's got a VCR He's even got a red sports car But I don't wanna goout with him anyway I don't wanna go out with him anyway
(33:19):
He's tall.
Six foot two.
He's got a great body.
Nice buns.
He's even got a real good job.
But I don't wanna go out with him anyway.
(33:39):
I don't wanna go out with him anyway.
He sponsors softball teams.
Hit him, Joe.
He doesn't do cocaine.
Not up his nose.
He even watches MTV.
(34:01):
But I don't want to go out with him anyway.
I don't want to go out with
He's a nice guy.
Nice What?
You know those nice guys?
I don't I like nice guys.
(34:24):
They clip their nose hairs.
I just don't fold their underwear.
I just don't like them.
I just don't.
I hate little E.
I just don't.
don't them.
don't like them.
don't I don't like them.
They make me sick.
Fuck them.
(34:44):
The spinning wheel just spinning and spinning.
is.
I think this is a good time to kind of wrap it up.
Final thing I was going to say is that Women's March is January 18th.
Yes.
And I'm sure there's going to be something going on in Atlanta, but I definitely plan tojust saw it on Facebook.
It's like, fuck Trump, we're doing it anyway.
I would also just, I'm going to send you a list of the women performers that I think youshould look at because our work can stand in comparison to it.
(35:14):
Well, and I can also post that on the description of the website, the podcast, I mean.
So.
Yeah, yeah, that's great.
Thanks for listening to Art Slutz Radio.
Hey, if you identify with the Art Slutz, explore our herstory at artslutz.net.
That's A-R-T-S-L-U-T-S dot net.
(35:36):
And purchase downloads of our music wherever you stream music.
All contributions and purchases will go to support Planned Parenthood.
Currently, 21 states have limited access to women's health care.
including abortion, and 15 of those have a total ban.
Talking about your abortion experience, voting and donating to support abortion rightswill make a difference.
(36:07):
Please!
It's just my music, baby
So
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