February 8, 2025 • 40 mins
Listen to Art Slut, Ann Wood interview old pal and Austin 80's & 90's Musician and Superstar, Gretchen Phillips of Two Nice Girls and Meat Joy. Part 1 with Part 2 to follow.
Hear Songs from Girls In the Nose, Meat Joy, Two Nice Girls and a most recent twist in her musical exploration.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
So we fucked it.
Because it was there.
We're artsluts.
Hey everybody.
I want to give a little backstory on our guest today, Gretchen Phillips.
I met Gretchen Phillips after a Meet Joy show with Sheila and Terry.
(00:24):
I don't really remember if we actually spoke, but I believe Sheila got Gretchen's address.
Meet Joy was like lightning in a bottle and influenced us forming the artsluts.
Sheila and I began writing letters back and forth to Gretchen.
as punks did in that day, which resulted in one of many infamous Ann and Sheila roadtrips.
Driving to Austin and Bucky, Sheila shortly decided to go back home and I stayed.
(00:48):
I already loved Austin musicians like the Butthole Surfers, Big Boys, The Dicks, evenbefore discovering Meat Joy.
And while in Austin, I fell in love with the music of Daniel Johnston.
I was welcoming into Austin by Gretchen and her friends, and she actually gave me a placeto stay, which I...
didn't appreciate enough at the time.
(01:09):
And I was invited to open up for Glass Eye and Bubble Puppy at Wavy Gravy's celebration atthe Continental Club.
So who is Gretchen Phillips?
If you know her, you already know this, Gretchen is a force of nature, smart, funny,talented.
Her songwriting, guitar playing, and performing have always pushed boundaries.
Listen in for her frequent use of the Yamaha DJ X2 and then hear polished crafted songs oftwo nice girls.
(01:36):
and her most recent exploration into ambient country with Pico Farad.
Whether assigned to a major label or putting out a cassette of her reading porn overmusic, her creativity is unparalleled.
Her mission to inject her experience as a lesbian into mainstream music underscores herhumanistic approach to life and people.
(01:56):
Hey everybody, we've got a really good treat today.
We have Old Friend and...
Pretty famous lady, Gretchen Phillips from Two Nice Girls and Meet Joy and Queen of Austinmusic scene.
Welcome to the show, Gretchen.
Thank you so much and thanks for having me.
Yeah, you bet.
(02:16):
I have really been enjoying doing a deep dive on your work because I'm familiar withobviously Meet Joy and Two Nice Girls and yesterday you texted me to check out Bits and
Bobs which I enjoyed so much.
In particular, I love the hernia song.
Five dollar hernia?
I loved it.
(02:37):
I wrote it.
I wrote it right here.
Run in the cassette and just making it up on the spot.
That's folk music for you.
Not particularly interesting chord progressions, but let the stream of consciousness go.
Most recently, Gretchen pulled out all the old archives and put together an album of musiccalled Bits and Bobs.
(03:04):
I'm only going to play you a portion of this next song, but I loved it.
You'll hear why.
It's called My Hernia.
you
To add insult to injury, I don't have insurance.
It's a long story having to do with homophobia at University of Texas at Austin.
(03:29):
Although I've been with my girlfriend for 16 years, the state doesn't recognize same-sexpartnership by the same token.
I don't really want to get domestically hooked up with her.
It's just not hot to us.
Scared, where am gonna come up with the money for this hernia?
(03:54):
It's the sort of thing you actually have to have surgery for
(04:15):
Right, and it kind of, I have a note here, don't talk about yourself,
But it reminded me of this song that Sheila and I did called Civilization that was about agame that had 13 steps.
So it had 13 verses.
So I was remembering that.
(04:38):
But you know, there's so much that I was really identifying and I'm sure that Terry Woodand other creative women our age would is that whole sensibility at this time in our life
to like digitize our work and somehow, you know, get it in the vault in a way.
And I noticed you've been doing that and pulling out some really some gems.
(05:02):
Yeah, I mean, well, my archive is at Cornell.
So they have on a hard drive every video performance of mine that I have.
Wow, that's great.
I not childhood stuff, but what was easy enough for me to just run.
I put out a call for VCRs because they're all a little bit different.
(05:25):
And I found one that seemed pretty good.
And then I just would, in real time, run the VCR.
while doing other things and digitize, you know, ancient footage and put it on there sothat it's in a repository someplace outside of my home.
now that requires curiosity on someone's part to then go look at it.
(05:49):
But that's not, you know, but at least it's it's quote unquote safe someplace.
Absolutely.
What's your what's your connection to Cornell?
They have a really cool human sexualities collection and an archivist who has beenconcentrating since the early 90s, particularly on that.
And then my particular collection also ties into their punk collecting.
(06:12):
So they have two great women archivists who are, and Cornell was, you know, wanted mystuff.
And so they also have Robert Moog.
Not all of it, but some.
There's some Ed Wood.
in there.
There's a lot of witches, like the dude who was a book collector who started Cornell.
(06:36):
He was super into witchcraft and stuff.
So they really cool old texts on that.
Giant punk, hip hop holdings, zines.
It's just a really good place.
That's great.
Yeah.
I've been tapping into the Internet Archive as a part of the Library of Congress.
Cool.
Which is, it might be another good spot.
(06:56):
It's kind of more of a all access repository, you know, like you said, of just kind ofeverything.
Gretchen's next band with Kaye Turner called Girls in the Nose was around for a while andthis is a song called Where Girls Go.
(07:44):
You got your blue suede shoes, jeans, milt,
you
(08:27):
Stone
(09:27):
I hate to make you mad.
When I'm with my girlfriends, I'm feeling so glad.
Let's start a new tradition.
Start
I was thinking
(10:15):
I just have so many questions for you.
You know, one of the things I wanted to tap into was, and I've kind of read some of yourinterviews and so forth, is that unusual time period that we were in, in the 80s, as far
as like our community and music and creativity.
And then I also wanted to tap into, in fact, let's start here with my second question.
(10:41):
Are you, as an artist, are you more about
Process or product would you say?
process.
Yeah, that's kind of the instinct I got So your first band was called meat.
Joy, which is definitely about process for sure that whole Fluxus movement and that wholeartistic movement.
(11:01):
Can you talk about how meat?
Joy started?
Yeah, but just all of those little sounds that sound like beeps and things is that on yourend?
Yeah, okay.
That's fine as long as it's not telling us anything.
Sorry about that.
What sound?
that a man created am I supposed to pay attention to?
How is it that you're asking me to stop paying attention to my train of thought and payattention to your like, know, alarm on some version?
(11:25):
I would say there is a great book that we wrote about Meatjoy and how it formed that youcan get through Bandcamp through our Meatjoy music site that really tells the history in a
good way.
know, quickly I'll just say Meatjoy was a gang of
people who were interested in artists stretching outside of their sort of prescribed artarea, let's say.
(11:50):
I'm sorry, Ann, I've told this story so many times.
Let's skip it.
It's okay.
I think I just don't have the attention span for it today.
It's totally fine.
If you heard episode three, you have already heard Me Joy, which is a band that was aroundin 1984, 1985.
And we're to listen to a great song called
(12:12):
My heart crawls off.
(12:37):
I'll just call the office
It just made me dizzy
(13:50):
Everybody
Forget it Gretchen, cause she loves somebody else
(14:22):
Bye!
you
(15:15):
Do you see how you're killing me inside?
you
(15:41):
Because I've been dying
Let's jump back into your process.
(16:01):
I know that you started playing music from a young age.
Yeah.
Are you up for talking about your creative process?
I guess one of my questions was, obviously you have been a spokeswoman for the lesbiancommunity for ages.
What's the combination between your message of lesbian culture and getting that in?
(16:27):
mainstream society and then just the creative process as a seed.
Well, mean, one thing that I have been really noticing lately is the idea of currents.
And what is a current?
Like when I'm jamming with people, our sound waves in the room are kind of a current.
(16:50):
It's just really one step removed from solid matter, sound waves.
And these ways of being attuned to currents, I think I've always been really interested inthat.
(17:12):
And there's the flow.
There's the direction where everything's going.
Go with the flow.
Right.
then there can be, I don't like where the flow is going.
When I was a child,
sexism was rampant.
It was very casual.
It was very commonplace.
It was an all advertising.
(17:33):
was everything a boy said to me in elementary school.
And that was a very strong current that I didn't agree with in terms of just literally themessage girls can't do this, girls can't do that.
And so for me, okay, well then how do I create a countercurrent?
And if I'm going counter to a current that is pretty strong,
(17:57):
Who are my companions here?
Am I by myself?
Have I found some other folks who are interested in the highways and the byways off thebeaten track?
Have I created an identity that's so profound that to be in the mainstream is gross to me?
I would never want to do that.
(18:17):
You know, there's just, I can pay attention to currents to the blood flowing through mybody, how my aging heart reacts.
what's going on with digestion, all of the weather certainly.
And I've been feeling a lot actually politically lately around currents of respect.
(18:38):
And that's something I've always really thought about as far as human rights or, well, Idon't wanna just say human rights, because I don't know if you know this amazing Moondog
song.
Do you know the musician Moondog?
I've got my notepad, so I'm taking notes, though.
Okay.
(18:58):
Moondog has an amazing song called Enough About Human Rights.
Enough about human rights.
What about whale rights?
What about snail rights?
What about stoat rights?
What about goat rights?
And in fact, he was a complicated dude who apparently was quite anti-Semitic.
(19:21):
So what about rights?
But I think this larger question for me as a child of the universe, which I feel very muchlike I've always been in touch with, is that a current that can exist, that it's a flow
(19:41):
that allows me to just trip along and have a process of a life.
In terms of saying, it the process?
It's very much a process.
Where I'm just.
you know, tripping along, thinking, being curious, wanting to know.
I have a bit of a scientific component to my personality and my sort of leanings.
(20:03):
So I'll run a few different experiments and take notes.
Your upbringing, your dad being a scientist.
I think it's just the way I was born this way, certainly dad, but also I think I was born,I think a scientist is by nature curious and you know,
I do have that.
(20:24):
So in a room of jamming, a kind of curiosity about here we are, we're all on A.
What happens if I take it to the four, I could take it to the five, I could take it tosomething completely different?
What happens if we do this?
And certainly that was the case for me as a person slotted to be straight as a kid, ofcourse.
(20:47):
What happens if I don't do this?
What happens if I go with the current of my desire that is counter to the...
In fact, in Houston there were gay radio shows on public access, there was gay bookstores,there was certainly lesbian folk music that I could listen to.
So it all for me is basically riding the currents of life.
(21:12):
It's nothing different from that.
Two nice girls formed in 85 and continued until the early 90s.
I believe one of their launch to major label was their song, Sweet Jane.
(22:20):
So good in my head
Jack is in his corset, and Jane is in her vest.
Me, I'm in a nice girls' band, riding in a sluts' becky, I wish.
(22:46):
Those were different times When the boys said study, who's first?
And the ladies, they all derived Sweet Jane, Jane Sweet Jane, Jane Sweet Jane, Jane
(23:26):
Jack is a banker
(23:47):
See
Soldiers, yeah
Jackie say, give me love ooh ooh ooh With affection, sing me another love song But thistime with a little dedication Sing it, sing it, sing it, sing it You know that's what I
(24:21):
like, love ooh ooh
(24:47):
took me dancing after work, across the floor, then they're all cheek to cheek, with alover I can make every day it's just her.
(25:08):
Spin and tail with sibling
And the children are the only ones who will just stick to those ones that I like, is justto die.
you
(25:30):
and break it.
Just give me love
(26:05):
Sweet day, with affection Sing me another love song But this time with a little dedicationSing it, sing it, sing it, sing it Sweet day, know that's what I like
you
(26:40):
That totally makes sense.
It's really interesting to hear the progression of your music because again, I have thisconnection with you, always have, but the parallels, like you doing, your new band that I
was listening to.
(27:00):
Pico Farad?
Yeah, it's like basically ambient country or something, right?
Yeah, mean, well, that's total current making.
Total.
know, we're just making a current.
And then I had after our first practice, I was like, this is great.
But, know, I felt like I want something more.
(27:20):
And I thought of the most sort of counter genre to ambient, which was what about classiccountry?
Right.
But then the classic country actually just emotionally fits.
(27:41):
Yeah.
You know, the emotion of...
Right.
Of...
Usually loss, those are the songs I'm drawn to, you know, or kind of if it's togetheragain, a kind of minor key togetherness, but there's such a bittersweetness to it.
And even the pacing of country is like very straight ahead, know, right?
(28:07):
So yeah, I really enjoyed that.
you know, one of the things I've always explored, but even more specifically since COVIDis the effect of
music and sound on people in a way of communicating that is
can't be specified.
(28:28):
You know what I'm saying?
Like you can communicate an emotion through just sound as opposed to message.
Outside of language.
Right.
Okay.
So music is music as an instrumental form of communicating that is not necessarily boundby language for its meaning.
(28:50):
Right.
Yeah.
So crazy.
Because when I was listening to the
process of that band, encourage everybody to check this out.
Pico Farad, where's that name come from?
It's a unit of measurement in electronics and I think it's really ferred, but we like tosay farad.
(29:11):
But it's like a milliferred, micro ferred, pico ferred.
It's an electronic measurement.
That's so cool.
Do you feel like it communicates better in a live improvisational setting or more onrecording?
mean, what we have on SoundCloud is a thousand years old from like the third time weplayed.
(29:31):
have so many buildings since then.
is, I mean, it's, we keep trying to record ourselves and release it, but it's, it'salways, I would say that it's a very much a live thing.
Although I don't think it's a terrible thing on recording either.
I am so not product oriented frankly that I have I think pretty great products that couldbe released that I keep to myself because that step is not as interesting to me any
(30:05):
longer.
The magic of our, know, the meaning of objects when we started out and what was preciousabout them and what has become
I feel like, you know, too much information, honestly, TMI, in every fucking form thereis.
(30:30):
So in a certain way, I'm, I hold back, think somewhat going to yet another man who ismaking money in a tech way off of the fruits of my lesbian labor, and I will never see it.
Where it's kind of like,
And Sara, I guess you had to be there.
(30:53):
I don't necessarily any longer feel like what I have to say is so important that by anymeans necessary the message must get out there.
I've handed the baton to younger people.
I don't think that it's imperative in the way that that was very much a driving force whenI was young.
(31:19):
Yeah.
And it just felt like I had a job I needed to do, but it kind of feels like, okay, I did apretty good job of establishing, I mean, me plus a bunch of other people.
am certainly not saying that this is just me.
Right.
It's not a singularity, but, you know, what does happen in a relay to that person who wentout second and there's other people now running with the baton doing very well.
(31:44):
I still am a runner.
I still like to run.
But in this race, it's not that important for me with those spectators to be going aroundagain.
Right.
Right.
Well, I will certainly listen to whatever you put out for sure.
Also on Bits and Bob is Andy's dance solo.
I believe this might have been the beginning of Gretchen's ambient phase.
(34:03):
you
(35:31):
you
you
(36:15):
you
(38:29):
You know, I'm going to give you a flashback moment.
On one of our episodes with Pam and Terry, we all talked about the blue truck.
okay.
I have so much to say about the blue truck.
Sugarball.
Is that the name of it?
Sugarball.
my God, I love that truck.
(38:51):
Dotson.
Yes, I loved it so much.
And Pam is pretty convinced that she actually borrowed it for a while.
As well, like it took the circuit, but I mean, it was literally life changing for me.
and I'll just, you know, on a personal note, just say you were life changing for me.
(39:14):
you know, just making that connection and, and, know, transitioning what turned out, youknow, out of the arts, let's into other stuff.
So thank you for that.
But you got me in a sport, which was crazy because I was riding a bike.
everywhere in August heat in Austin and hot.
(39:35):
Thanks for listening to Art Sluts Radio.
Hey, if you identify with the Art Sluts, explore our herstory at artsluts.net.
That's A-R-T-S-L-U-T-S dot net and purchase downloads of our music wherever you streammusic.
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(40:00):
Currently, 21 states have limited access to women's healthcare, including abortion, and 15of those have a total ban.
Talking about your abortion experience, voting and donating to support abortion rightswill make a difference.
(40:21):
Leave you be
It's just my music, baby
So we fucked it.
Because it was there.
We're artsluts.
Hey everybody.
I want to give a little backstory on our guest today, Gretchen Phillips.
I met Gretchen Phillips after a Meet Joy show with Sheila and Terry.
(00:24):
I don't really remember if we actually spoke, but I believe Sheila got Gretchen's address.
Meet Joy was like lightning in a bottle and influenced us forming the artsluts.
Sheila and I began writing letters back and forth to Gretchen.
as punks did in that day, which resulted in one of many infamous Ann and Sheila roadtrips.
Driving to Austin and Bucky, Sheila shortly decided to go back home and I stayed.
(00:48):
I already loved Austin musicians like the Butthole Surfers, Big Boys, The Dicks, evenbefore discovering Meat Joy.
And while in Austin, I fell in love with the music of Daniel Johnston.
I was welcoming into Austin by Gretchen and her friends, and she actually gave me a placeto stay, which I...
didn't appreciate enough at the time.
(01:09):
And I was invited to open up for Glass Eye and Bubble Puppy at Wavy Gravy's celebration atthe Continental Club.
So who is Gretchen Phillips?
If you know her, you already know this, Gretchen is a force of nature, smart, funny,talented.
Her songwriting, guitar playing, and performing have always pushed boundaries.
Listen in for her frequent use of the Yamaha DJ X2 and then hear polished crafted songs oftwo nice girls.
(01:36):
and her most recent exploration into ambient country with Pico Farad.
Whether assigned to a major label or putting out a cassette of her reading porn overmusic, her creativity is unparalleled.
Her mission to inject her experience as a lesbian into mainstream music underscores herhumanistic approach to life and people.
(01:56):
Hey everybody, we've got a really good treat today.
We have Old Friend and...
Pretty famous lady, Gretchen Phillips from Two Nice Girls and Meet Joy and Queen of Austinmusic scene.
Welcome to the show, Gretchen.
Thank you so much and thanks for having me.
Yeah, you bet.
(02:16):
I have really been enjoying doing a deep dive on your work because I'm familiar withobviously Meet Joy and Two Nice Girls and yesterday you texted me to check out Bits and
Bobs which I enjoyed so much.
In particular, I love the hernia song.
Five dollar hernia?
I loved it.
(02:37):
I wrote it.
I wrote it right here.
Run in the cassette and just making it up on the spot.
That's folk music for you.
Not particularly interesting chord progressions, but let the stream of consciousness go.
Most recently, Gretchen pulled out all the old archives and put together an album of musiccalled Bits and Bobs.
(03:04):
I'm only going to play you a portion of this next song, but I loved it.
You'll hear why.
It's called My Hernia.
you
To add insult to injury, I don't have insurance.
It's a long story having to do with homophobia at University of Texas at Austin.
(03:29):
Although I've been with my girlfriend for 16 years, the state doesn't recognize same-sexpartnership by the same token.
I don't really want to get domestically hooked up with her.
It's just not hot to us.
Scared, where am gonna come up with the money for this hernia?
(03:54):
It's the sort of thing you actually have to have surgery for
(04:15):
Right, and it kind of, I have a note here, don't talk about yourself,
But it reminded me of this song that Sheila and I did called Civilization that was about agame that had 13 steps.
So it had 13 verses.
So I was remembering that.
(04:38):
But you know, there's so much that I was really identifying and I'm sure that Terry Woodand other creative women our age would is that whole sensibility at this time in our life
to like digitize our work and somehow, you know, get it in the vault in a way.
And I noticed you've been doing that and pulling out some really some gems.
(05:02):
Yeah, I mean, well, my archive is at Cornell.
So they have on a hard drive every video performance of mine that I have.
Wow, that's great.
I not childhood stuff, but what was easy enough for me to just run.
I put out a call for VCRs because they're all a little bit different.
(05:25):
And I found one that seemed pretty good.
And then I just would, in real time, run the VCR.
while doing other things and digitize, you know, ancient footage and put it on there sothat it's in a repository someplace outside of my home.
now that requires curiosity on someone's part to then go look at it.
(05:49):
But that's not, you know, but at least it's it's quote unquote safe someplace.
Absolutely.
What's your what's your connection to Cornell?
They have a really cool human sexualities collection and an archivist who has beenconcentrating since the early 90s, particularly on that.
And then my particular collection also ties into their punk collecting.
(06:12):
So they have two great women archivists who are, and Cornell was, you know, wanted mystuff.
And so they also have Robert Moog.
Not all of it, but some.
There's some Ed Wood.
in there.
There's a lot of witches, like the dude who was a book collector who started Cornell.
(06:36):
He was super into witchcraft and stuff.
So they really cool old texts on that.
Giant punk, hip hop holdings, zines.
It's just a really good place.
That's great.
Yeah.
I've been tapping into the Internet Archive as a part of the Library of Congress.
Cool.
Which is, it might be another good spot.
(06:56):
It's kind of more of a all access repository, you know, like you said, of just kind ofeverything.
Gretchen's next band with Kaye Turner called Girls in the Nose was around for a while andthis is a song called Where Girls Go.
(07:44):
You got your blue suede shoes, jeans, milt,
you
(08:27):
Stone
(09:27):
I hate to make you mad.
When I'm with my girlfriends, I'm feeling so glad.
Let's start a new tradition.
Start
I was thinking
(10:15):
I just have so many questions for you.
You know, one of the things I wanted to tap into was, and I've kind of read some of yourinterviews and so forth, is that unusual time period that we were in, in the 80s, as far
as like our community and music and creativity.
And then I also wanted to tap into, in fact, let's start here with my second question.
(10:41):
Are you, as an artist, are you more about
Process or product would you say?
process.
Yeah, that's kind of the instinct I got So your first band was called meat.
Joy, which is definitely about process for sure that whole Fluxus movement and that wholeartistic movement.
(11:01):
Can you talk about how meat?
Joy started?
Yeah, but just all of those little sounds that sound like beeps and things is that on yourend?
Yeah, okay.
That's fine as long as it's not telling us anything.
Sorry about that.
What sound?
that a man created am I supposed to pay attention to?
How is it that you're asking me to stop paying attention to my train of thought and payattention to your like, know, alarm on some version?
(11:25):
I would say there is a great book that we wrote about Meatjoy and how it formed that youcan get through Bandcamp through our Meatjoy music site that really tells the history in a
good way.
know, quickly I'll just say Meatjoy was a gang of
people who were interested in artists stretching outside of their sort of prescribed artarea, let's say.
(11:50):
I'm sorry, Ann, I've told this story so many times.
Let's skip it.
It's okay.
I think I just don't have the attention span for it today.
It's totally fine.
If you heard episode three, you have already heard Me Joy, which is a band that was aroundin 1984, 1985.
And we're to listen to a great song called
(12:12):
My heart crawls off.
(12:37):
I'll just call the office
It just made me dizzy
(13:50):
Everybody
Forget it Gretchen, cause she loves somebody else
(14:22):
Bye!
you
(15:15):
Do you see how you're killing me inside?
you
(15:41):
Because I've been dying
Let's jump back into your process.
(16:01):
I know that you started playing music from a young age.
Yeah.
Are you up for talking about your creative process?
I guess one of my questions was, obviously you have been a spokeswoman for the lesbiancommunity for ages.
What's the combination between your message of lesbian culture and getting that in?
(16:27):
mainstream society and then just the creative process as a seed.
Well, mean, one thing that I have been really noticing lately is the idea of currents.
And what is a current?
Like when I'm jamming with people, our sound waves in the room are kind of a current.
(16:50):
It's just really one step removed from solid matter, sound waves.
And these ways of being attuned to currents, I think I've always been really interested inthat.
(17:12):
And there's the flow.
There's the direction where everything's going.
Go with the flow.
Right.
then there can be, I don't like where the flow is going.
When I was a child,
sexism was rampant.
It was very casual.
It was very commonplace.
It was an all advertising.
(17:33):
was everything a boy said to me in elementary school.
And that was a very strong current that I didn't agree with in terms of just literally themessage girls can't do this, girls can't do that.
And so for me, okay, well then how do I create a countercurrent?
And if I'm going counter to a current that is pretty strong,
(17:57):
Who are my companions here?
Am I by myself?
Have I found some other folks who are interested in the highways and the byways off thebeaten track?
Have I created an identity that's so profound that to be in the mainstream is gross to me?
I would never want to do that.
(18:17):
You know, there's just, I can pay attention to currents to the blood flowing through mybody, how my aging heart reacts.
what's going on with digestion, all of the weather certainly.
And I've been feeling a lot actually politically lately around currents of respect.
(18:38):
And that's something I've always really thought about as far as human rights or, well, Idon't wanna just say human rights, because I don't know if you know this amazing Moondog
song.
Do you know the musician Moondog?
I've got my notepad, so I'm taking notes, though.
Okay.
(18:58):
Moondog has an amazing song called Enough About Human Rights.
Enough about human rights.
What about whale rights?
What about snail rights?
What about stoat rights?
What about goat rights?
And in fact, he was a complicated dude who apparently was quite anti-Semitic.
(19:21):
So what about rights?
But I think this larger question for me as a child of the universe, which I feel very muchlike I've always been in touch with, is that a current that can exist, that it's a flow
(19:41):
that allows me to just trip along and have a process of a life.
In terms of saying, it the process?
It's very much a process.
Where I'm just.
you know, tripping along, thinking, being curious, wanting to know.
I have a bit of a scientific component to my personality and my sort of leanings.
(20:03):
So I'll run a few different experiments and take notes.
Your upbringing, your dad being a scientist.
I think it's just the way I was born this way, certainly dad, but also I think I was born,I think a scientist is by nature curious and you know,
I do have that.
(20:24):
So in a room of jamming, a kind of curiosity about here we are, we're all on A.
What happens if I take it to the four, I could take it to the five, I could take it tosomething completely different?
What happens if we do this?
And certainly that was the case for me as a person slotted to be straight as a kid, ofcourse.
(20:47):
What happens if I don't do this?
What happens if I go with the current of my desire that is counter to the...
In fact, in Houston there were gay radio shows on public access, there was gay bookstores,there was certainly lesbian folk music that I could listen to.
So it all for me is basically riding the currents of life.
(21:12):
It's nothing different from that.
Two nice girls formed in 85 and continued until the early 90s.
I believe one of their launch to major label was their song, Sweet Jane.
(22:20):
So good in my head
Jack is in his corset, and Jane is in her vest.
Me, I'm in a nice girls' band, riding in a sluts' becky, I wish.
(22:46):
Those were different times When the boys said study, who's first?
And the ladies, they all derived Sweet Jane, Jane Sweet Jane, Jane Sweet Jane, Jane
(23:26):
Jack is a banker
(23:47):
See
Soldiers, yeah
Jackie say, give me love ooh ooh ooh With affection, sing me another love song But thistime with a little dedication Sing it, sing it, sing it, sing it You know that's what I
(24:21):
like, love ooh ooh
(24:47):
took me dancing after work, across the floor, then they're all cheek to cheek, with alover I can make every day it's just her.
(25:08):
Spin and tail with sibling
And the children are the only ones who will just stick to those ones that I like, is justto die.
you
(25:30):
and break it.
Just give me love
(26:05):
Sweet day, with affection Sing me another love song But this time with a little dedicationSing it, sing it, sing it, sing it Sweet day, know that's what I like
you
(26:40):
That totally makes sense.
It's really interesting to hear the progression of your music because again, I have thisconnection with you, always have, but the parallels, like you doing, your new band that I
was listening to.
(27:00):
Pico Farad?
Yeah, it's like basically ambient country or something, right?
Yeah, mean, well, that's total current making.
Total.
know, we're just making a current.
And then I had after our first practice, I was like, this is great.
But, know, I felt like I want something more.
(27:20):
And I thought of the most sort of counter genre to ambient, which was what about classiccountry?
Right.
But then the classic country actually just emotionally fits.
(27:41):
Yeah.
You know, the emotion of...
Right.
Of...
Usually loss, those are the songs I'm drawn to, you know, or kind of if it's togetheragain, a kind of minor key togetherness, but there's such a bittersweetness to it.
And even the pacing of country is like very straight ahead, know, right?
(28:07):
So yeah, I really enjoyed that.
you know, one of the things I've always explored, but even more specifically since COVIDis the effect of
music and sound on people in a way of communicating that is
can't be specified.
(28:28):
You know what I'm saying?
Like you can communicate an emotion through just sound as opposed to message.
Outside of language.
Right.
Okay.
So music is music as an instrumental form of communicating that is not necessarily boundby language for its meaning.
(28:50):
Right.
Yeah.
So crazy.
Because when I was listening to the
process of that band, encourage everybody to check this out.
Pico Farad, where's that name come from?
It's a unit of measurement in electronics and I think it's really ferred, but we like tosay farad.
(29:11):
But it's like a milliferred, micro ferred, pico ferred.
It's an electronic measurement.
That's so cool.
Do you feel like it communicates better in a live improvisational setting or more onrecording?
mean, what we have on SoundCloud is a thousand years old from like the third time weplayed.
(29:31):
have so many buildings since then.
is, I mean, it's, we keep trying to record ourselves and release it, but it's, it'salways, I would say that it's a very much a live thing.
Although I don't think it's a terrible thing on recording either.
I am so not product oriented frankly that I have I think pretty great products that couldbe released that I keep to myself because that step is not as interesting to me any
(30:05):
longer.
The magic of our, know, the meaning of objects when we started out and what was preciousabout them and what has become
I feel like, you know, too much information, honestly, TMI, in every fucking form thereis.
(30:30):
So in a certain way, I'm, I hold back, think somewhat going to yet another man who ismaking money in a tech way off of the fruits of my lesbian labor, and I will never see it.
Where it's kind of like,
And Sara, I guess you had to be there.
(30:53):
I don't necessarily any longer feel like what I have to say is so important that by anymeans necessary the message must get out there.
I've handed the baton to younger people.
I don't think that it's imperative in the way that that was very much a driving force whenI was young.
(31:19):
Yeah.
And it just felt like I had a job I needed to do, but it kind of feels like, okay, I did apretty good job of establishing, I mean, me plus a bunch of other people.
am certainly not saying that this is just me.
Right.
It's not a singularity, but, you know, what does happen in a relay to that person who wentout second and there's other people now running with the baton doing very well.
(31:44):
I still am a runner.
I still like to run.
But in this race, it's not that important for me with those spectators to be going aroundagain.
Right.
Right.
Well, I will certainly listen to whatever you put out for sure.
Also on Bits and Bob is Andy's dance solo.
I believe this might have been the beginning of Gretchen's ambient phase.
(34:03):
you
(35:31):
you
you
(36:15):
you
(38:29):
You know, I'm going to give you a flashback moment.
On one of our episodes with Pam and Terry, we all talked about the blue truck.
okay.
I have so much to say about the blue truck.
Sugarball.
Is that the name of it?
Sugarball.
my God, I love that truck.
(38:51):
Dotson.
Yes, I loved it so much.
And Pam is pretty convinced that she actually borrowed it for a while.
As well, like it took the circuit, but I mean, it was literally life changing for me.
and I'll just, you know, on a personal note, just say you were life changing for me.
(39:14):
you know, just making that connection and, and, know, transitioning what turned out, youknow, out of the arts, let's into other stuff.
So thank you for that.
But you got me in a sport, which was crazy because I was riding a bike.
everywhere in August heat in Austin and hot.
(39:35):
Thanks for listening to Art Sluts Radio.
Hey, if you identify with the Art Sluts, explore our herstory at artsluts.net.
That's A-R-T-S-L-U-T-S dot net and purchase downloads of our music wherever you streammusic.
All contributions and purchases will go to support Planned Parenthood.
(40:00):
Currently, 21 states have limited access to women's healthcare, including abortion, and 15of those have a total ban.
Talking about your abortion experience, voting and donating to support abortion rightswill make a difference.
(40:21):
Leave you be
It's just my music, baby
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