September 14, 2024 • 40 mins
Join Teri, Pam and Ann while they introduce themselves and discuss topics of the day including feminism in the 80's and now. Hear songs like Art Sluts, Me and my Little Fingers and David Letterman. All proceeds from the sale of Art Sluts music benefits Planned Parenthood.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
So we fucked it.
it was there.
We're artsluts.
Anyway, hey, welcome to the artsluts.
Yeah, it's gonna happen.
(00:25):
Because we're artsluts.
Whoa, man, you're your host engineer.
So maybe maybe one of y 'all can be the host on the next one.
And avoid my faux pas.
No, I think it's good.
So anyway, we were talking about Kenny Green and the bar next to the sub shop and thenChautauqua Center.
(00:50):
I did talk to Ro at the Chautauqua Center for we should introduce ourselves.
Yeah.
What's your name?
You're right.
My name's Ann Wood.
I'm Pam Doherty.
I'm Terry Chalky.
And we're the.
people that remain from the arts lets.
Which is a punk Sheila Brynjolfsson is here in spirit.
(01:10):
Absolutely.
She's very, she's enjoying herself for sure.
And so the arts lets with the all woman punk rock band in the eighties, basically from 84to 86 in Columbia, Missouri, in the middle of a punk rock DIY scene that happened almost a
decade before the gorilla girl scene.
(01:32):
Absolutely.
Evergreen.
and, Olivia where I live.
I'm right now in Olympia right now.
And I'm in Atlanta.
Now, do you, do you characterize us as punk rock?
Because I going to say performance.
always thought of us as per for a performance art band because we had elements of that,but yeah, we had punk though too.
(01:52):
Yeah, we did, but I we were more than more than punk rock.
Well, first of all, DIY, you get to
self -defined, right?
You get to choose and whatever comes out of your mouth about who you are, that's who youare, right?
But I definitely, one of things I definitely wanted to bring up today, as I just finishedrereading for the second time, is Assuming the Ecosexual Position by Annie Sprinkl and
(02:15):
Beth Stevens.
And what they talk about is that they're a part of the Fluxus art movement, which is,know, a European art movement that Yoko Ono was part of that, Carolee Schneeman was part
of that, and we're clearly
historically embedded in that kind of a particular kind of feminist body art performanceart.
And that what we were doing had no precedent in the culture that we were in.
(02:38):
And don't forget Yayoi Kusama, who also did nude performance art and painting on her bodyin 1960.
Right.
like us, so that was in Caroline Schneemann, the Meatjoy stuff happened in 62, 64.
But you know, American artists have always been very America as a culture has been veryinhospitable to well, so misogynist, right?
(03:06):
But females women using their bodies as part of the art so the way that we cut our hairthe way that we Right did all those costume changes all of that.
So definitely saw ourselves as the site of art Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And the fluxes movement is about that.
It's about
your life being an offering of art, your whole life, the whole thing.
(03:31):
So we were talking a few minutes ago before we pushed the record button about Take Three,how we met each other and what was influencing us back then.
Terry, I hesitate to ask you a third time, but I would love to hear your story about,please, Stevens.
(03:55):
Okay, I'm from west side of Cleveland, Ohio, but I need to get away from my family oforigin and all that scene.
So I got a scholarship to Columbia, Missouri, and I went to this fancy, my papa called ita rich bitch school.
I went to Stevens College, which is a private women's school.
And there were three professors there, Wally Wells, Dr.
(04:19):
Jimmy, James Whitehall, two other guys I can't remember right now.
But I will get my notes.
Anyway, they had created - I went to school because I wanted to be a talk show host likeDavid Letterman.
really?
Let's take a listen to my song, David Letterman.
(04:41):
I know that a lot of people have, you know, kind of heroes or superstars in the media andI have one too.
I know it's kind of silly but my hero is David Letterman and I wrote this song for him andsomeday he'll hear it and he'll want to marry me.
He will.
Yeah, Terry.
(05:01):
He will.
I want a fan that will tell stupid jokes I want to be like David Letterman Even when I wasa little girl David You were an excuse to stay up late
(05:27):
I watch all the stupid pet tricks I snack on Mr.
Larry's toast sticks And David, I'm in love
With the space between your two front teeth I want a TV show of my very own I want tolaugh at my own jokes I want fan mail from around the world I want to be like David
(06:02):
Letterman Whenever I get depressed about
Nuclear waste or my love life or death or the government or the imminent apocalypse All Igotta do is turn on the tube And David you're there with your perfect smile You keep me
(06:28):
from feeling blue
well.
(07:04):
I like the way you humiliate people, you're so rude.
And the tacky fake New York skyline you sit in front of is so cool.
I want a TV show of my very own I want a laugh at my own jokes I want fan mail from aroundthe world I want to be like David Letterman
(07:36):
And you know I like you in Velcro David All those famous people on your show Like LaurieAnderson And David Byrne Steve Weir Herman Rob Dylan Tom Waits Peter Tosh Alan Ginsburg
Well I just wanna be like them And sit next to you on the show
(08:02):
I want a talk show of my very own and get paid for having fun I want the arts floods towrite me a song I want to be like David David David Letterman
(08:26):
yeah, no for real.
So I was a communications major But then I had this work trade working in the collegiateroom, which is this little, you know snack shop where you cooked hamburgers That's how we
met all the guys that we hung out with because they were also working there Yeah, and Ithis guy was down there while he was and he would like say really loud Masturbation to get
everybody's attention.
We were like, who is that guy?
(08:48):
Right.
It was like a conversation starter.
He was a polyamorous He taught a class on intentional communities.
He was a total wild card
And actually died of cancer two years after I graduated.
But he and these other professors created an interdisciplinary degree called humanecology.
my gosh.
So I studied systems theory, solar panels.
(09:09):
We had a beta house that we energy retrofitted with a zen garden in the back.
So it was very, very revolutionary.
And the main thing they were teaching us was to think critically.
And they were concerned about climate change then.
In 1983 is when I graduated.
So that education completely changed my world, you know, and I still live by the valuesand the ideas that I learned then.
(09:33):
So it was definitely, even though everybody was like, what did you do with all that money?
How are you going to get work?
Cause what I was working at the rag rag stock in the sub shop after I got a degree, youknow, Terry that you worked at rag stock too.
I forgot about that.
I have that cute little picture of me with the beanie on the phone.
that's right.
That's right.
(09:53):
I'm going to throw my kitty some treats so she'll be quiet.
OK, show her.
Show that pussy some treats.
You do it.
That's that's actually how I met Sheila was I applied for the job.
Yeah, you were the assistant manager, right?
I was assistant manager and we were we were just troublemakers, as you know.
(10:13):
Yeah.
We just.
Well, I remember all those those beautiful fur coats.
my god.
In the back room.
yes, they were used a couple times.
Our auxiliary shag fest.
That was so awesome.
I hadn't thought about that in a while either.
And how we decorated, we separated the clothes by color.
(10:36):
So it'd be everything red, everything blue, everything in a rainbow.
And that's revolutionary.
That's like, that's like current design.
We're talking about rag it was vintage.
Were you talking about Sheila's shop?
Yeah, vintage clothes, right?
Vintage, beautiful clothes, which I wore all the time with my high heels and my cutelittle hats and gloves to go dancing at By George's, which we all called Bihexual Jorge's.
(11:01):
By George's, That's right.
But we said, hang out with Fex and wear our clothes sloppy.
OK.
Let's take a listen to the Art Sluts theme song written by all the Art Sluts.
(11:23):
We don't shave our armpits We don't wash our hair We like being single We don't wearunderwear We smoke lots of smacks And drink too much coffee We hang out with facts And
(11:48):
wear our clothes sloppy
Because we're arse -luss Do it for the inspiration Do it for investigation To find out howthey tick Then we found they had a dick So we fucked it
(12:09):
As it was there, we're arts floods.
We cut our hair really funny.
We used dog clippers to save some money.
(12:32):
We call our boyfriends instead of honey.
We don't really mean to, but we, we treat them crummy, cause we're art slugs.
Do it for the inspiration, do it for investigation, to find out how they tick, then wefound they had a dick!
(13:00):
So we fucked it.
Because it was there.
We're art slots.
We go to their band practices and pretend that we care.
(13:22):
We stare at their paintings and play with our hair.
We try to express our repressed masculinity.
We were 15 when we lost our virginity.
(13:45):
We're arts -lusts Do it for the inspiration Do it for investigation To find out how theytick Then we found they had a dick So we fucked it
Cause it was there We're our blood
(14:11):
there and I saved them really cool clothes from my store.
I find sex very inspirational to my artwork.
I really like painting but I'd rather have it kind of around my toes and up my legs andthe back and well you know what I mean.
Well you guys I still haven't worked out my line yet.
don't have a pan.
This is a demo tape man.
(14:35):
Well, okay, we'll just forget it.
Cutter some slack.
Yeah, you know, this is just...
We are slugs.
Do it for the inspiration.
Do it for investigation.
Too fun to hardly tick.
Then we found they had a dick.
So we fuck them.
(14:57):
And you know, it's interesting when I was going back to thinking about how I got into thismindset, one of the
critical things that happened before I got into music was I was going to school in Indianaand it was a called a living learning center, which is like you had to have done travel to
another country or you had to be studying something unique or and so it was a place whereevery instead of dinner they would have a lecturer come in.
(15:25):
Anyway, long story short, we started my girlfriend and I started dressing up to shock.
That was like 1982.
That's what I'm saying.
rock.
And we go downtown and we go to the gay bar, punk rock bar, drag show.
(15:47):
was like depending on the time of the evening, the very last thing was drag show or nomaybe it was drag show then punk rock show.
And so that was like my first.
Indiana or this was Columbia?
This was Indiana.
I was at school there and then I transferred because I lost my Pell Grant because ofRonald Reagan.
Yeah, hey, it worked out, right?
(16:07):
I get to meet you all.
So went to UMC then?
went to UMC then?
Okay, okay.
And what was your major?
Indiana was Japanese and religious studies.
then in Columbia, it was English, creative writing, poetry.
So yeah.
(16:28):
And Pam grew up in Columbia and actually went to
Mizzou and moved into a dorm, even though my parents' house was just a couple miles out oftown because I wanted to, you know, college life and hated the dorm experience.
(16:48):
And that first or I guess it was the second year I joined the Missourians for Safe Energyto try to stop this nuclear power plant from being built in Callaway County.
And I met all these very cool hippies that were 10 years older than me.
and had the Third Street House.
(17:08):
And that's where you met the Anarchists.
Anarchists Collective, yeah.
And so I just quit school and moved into Third Avenue.
And that started my trajectory to working at KOPN, learning about KOPN and all these otherthings that were going on.
Was the Anarchists Collective?
Yeah, it was called the Third Avenue Anarchists Collective.
(17:30):
And they put out
Anarchy a Journal of Desire armed.
I was very proud of living I still have a copy of that It's brilliant.
Yeah, I mean still very radical cutting -edge thinking -huh Yeah, and then how did thethree of us?
Meet each other.
Well, I know that it happened because when I was working at ragstock with Anne and SheilaAfter work, sometimes we would get high and that's when we started to make all the music
(17:57):
in the kitchen every day hanging out in me How did you meet Anne and Sheila?
I got a job at Ragstock.
was working at Ragstock.
And then I met you because I was working at the sub shop.
So this is my first because Lori and you and I all worked at the sub shop.
the people that - the sub shop too.
Yeah.
And then, and Angie too, right?
Or did Angie work at Ernie's?
Angie worked at Ernie's.
(18:18):
Okay.
So we're talking about two blocks.
to Ernie's.
Really?
Who slept with who?
Like a block because the sub shop was across the street from Ernie's.
then the bar And then to talk -
don't remember the name of the bar, but it was right next to it.
And then Chautauqua Center right was right down the street.
thought that's where we had our first show.
(18:40):
Yeah, I thought of that.
I thought of the other guy's name.
So the the guys that did the jujitsu training, which I did for summer, it was Kenny Greenand Tink.
Remember Tink?
was.
Tink.
Yeah.
wow.
When I got done with work at Sub Shop and I would go over to the bar and Tank would sitdown next to me.
So nice.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
would tell my troubles to him and he would give me all these remarkable solutions becauseI think he used to be in the armed forces or the military.
(19:07):
And so he would give me all this wisdom about sort of like, you have no idea what whatreal trouble is like.
yeah, he would always give me advice.
He was my my therapist.
Working at the sub shop was a big crossover for me because the boys, Pete Spots, who Istill know you guys, right?
(19:29):
He just moved back to Columbia two years ago, right?
But Pete Spots, Jeff Fander, Miriam Harline, who is now Melanie Henry, all this group ofpeople that were going to school at UMC but working at the sub shop.
Right?
And then taking classes, we all took classes on astrology and poetry and channeling at theChautauqua Center.
(19:54):
So that's how we knew each other.
And then I had that job for a little while at the city, which I quit to go rescue Pam fromAustin, which was hilarious.
I want to take a minute to to like give Sheila's introduction, if that's okay with youall.
please.
Yeah.
OK.
So for sure, I think we all agree that.
(20:15):
the artslets would not have happened if it weren't for Sheila.
Absolutely.
Pam mentioned, would you tell the story the first time you saw her?
just I was at Ernie's and she walked in the door and I just remember just droppingeverything and just staring at her because she just had this profound physical beauty.
(20:36):
Well, not just physical, but just spiritual stunning.
And and I remember
It's at a certain point realizing I wasn't the only one in Ernie staring at her.
Everyone was.
And a lot of people actually knew her, but she just very quietly went and sat at the atthe counter on a stool and ordered some coffee and wasn't really actually chatting anyone
(20:59):
up.
But I just remember that was my first impression was that I couldn't ever remember seeinganyone as beautiful.
And I know that's subjective, but.
And then to find out she was like a car mechanic.
Let's take a listen to Sheila's a mechanical genius.
(21:44):
When you cook the toast
and I tried it the other day.
(22:13):
And I said, that's good, yeah we gotta do that.
Okay, Sheila said, where's the coffee?
And I said...
But you know Sheila, she's an electrical genius!
Yeah, she's an electrical genius!
mechanic!
She's an electrical magician!
Yeah!
(22:33):
She's family of magicians!
She's a magical genius!
She's an electrical magician!
on and the light came on, there was no sound.
(23:20):
Yeah!
It's tire!
Speaking of cars, yeah, Sheila learned it's learning how to fix her own car because...
(24:04):
So she her background is her mom was from She said Persia, but I guess it would have beenIraq and then her dad was from Sweden or a Swedish descent Her her upbringing.
I don't know if y 'all are aware of this, but it's very Wild, I don't know the extent ofwhat she experienced.
(24:25):
She grew up in a trailer
a little bit outside of Columbia, I believe.
And her father, I believe, was an alcoholic.
And one night she woke up, he had set the trailer on fire on purpose.
And she left and shortly after that, she ran away from home.
(24:46):
She was 14.
and she went to Minneapolis because of Bob Dylan and she ended up meeting, yeah, she endedup meeting all these hippies and she forged her driver's license to say she was 16 so she
wouldn't get arrested and it was not till like years later that she told me, because Ialways thought she was, know, we were the same age, you she was older than me.
(25:11):
Yes, and so, and as you guys know, the Sheila that you met,
could she could kind of do anything, know, car mechanic.
Just had the confidence in yourself.
Exactly.
And she did a wrestling, comprehensive wrestling encyclopedia before she died.
And she ended up, she dropped out of school and then she ended up getting her GED, wentand taught at Columbia College and became a medieval scholar.
(25:39):
So yeah.
So, but
But she was just stunningly beautiful.
funny and smart.
funny, funny.
So yeah, we did the first song that we wrote.
And I can't remember.
I think this is right before, Terry, you started coming over.
I believe you can correct me if I'm wrong.
(26:01):
The maggots and potatoes.
Which was true.
It was there because there were actual maggots in the potato.
the maggots.
I remember that.
We lived upstairs at the...
I believe I was there at the originating incident.
At the Hinkson house, there was a tiny little kitchen.
It was just like a little studio.
And underneath is where Sheila kept her sort of like onions and potatoes and whatnot.
(26:25):
And I lived on the same floor, but in another bedroom.
And yeah, maggots and potatoes.
And so we did the punk rock version.
Here's the first song we ever wrote called, maggots and potatoes.
I remember the maggots.
Julie, remember the maggots that we had no potatoes?
mean a couple months ago.
(26:46):
they were gross.
You were, I can't stand it.
I remember the black slime.
You remember the black slime?
no, no, but I remember the white squirmy.
the pink.
and the smell when you opened the And you the cereal out.
it was bad.
It was almost like the frozen chicken levers.
it was bad.
(27:06):
the maggots.
maggots.
Maggots and potatoes.
Maggots and potatoes.
maggots.
(27:29):
I'm
Yeah
It's dancing!
Little maggot condoms!
Maggameth in potatoes!
Wait for me, maggot!
(28:06):
Turn on the fuckers now!
Yeah, mega!
Fuck you, mega!
You make me sick!
Fuck off, ass!
Ass!
Mega makes me sick!
it was really close!
Fuck you, mega!
so close!
It was a metal party!
(28:29):
I hate you so much!
That was really disgusting!
fuck you, man!
I'm going to you have to cry!
(28:58):
And the next day at Ernie's played it for many people, including Joe Madison.
You remember him?
Yes, I do.
The lawyer.
Yeah.
And everybody laughed.
And of course, that like just fed our encouragement.
then Terry, read this.
What I remember about Terry, I don't know why I don't remember the rag stock thing asmuch, but I remember vividly the three of us sitting around smoking pot in Sheila's
(29:23):
bedroom recording and you were playing like
like a Mason jar with beans in it.
Yeah, a jar with beans in it.
Yeah.
For the percussion.
But because I already thought I was a musician because I've been doing music with BrianHelton and Kara Tomlinson.
So when I was still at Stevens, I had a...
(29:46):
because of Laurie Anderson's album came out.
And we really loved Superman and we're like, this is so minimalist, we could do this.
So good.
know?
Yeah, mean the thing when right before the maggots and potatoes, like I can't remember theexact thing but Ragstock, remember the road apple?
(30:08):
That was where the punk rock shows would be.
Klaus and
One of the other guys, I Tim and Artie came and put a poster up at Ragstock and it said,Rode Apple.
We didn't go to that show, but we went to Club Decrepit, which was in the basement of ahouse.
And we saw Causes of Tragedy.
Jesus.
And they were horrible.
(30:30):
They really horrible.
And we were like, we could do better than this.
Come on.
And I had this visual of everybody there, including myself, were all dressed in black.
And Sheila was there.
And she had this forest green.
jacket, know, 40s coat on.
She was the only color in the entire and we did this.
Yeah, exactly.
Said, we can do this is terrible.
(30:52):
We can do this.
Mm hmm.
Was the road apple that kind of metal building out in the outskirts of time where that'swhere all the queer shit was to all the the all the dark dances and there was it wasn't
there a gay bar different one outside of Columbia?
Not that wasn't the road apple.
(31:12):
Nothing ever lasted very long.
You know, it like I was like there for a year or half a half a year or something and justkept changing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the first the first show was in the basement of the Chautauqua Center.
That's right.
Yeah.
OK.
So so vivid.
(31:33):
That's so vivid.
Now, Pam, you had you had not joined us yet.
I had not joined yet.
I was there to watch and I thought.
I thought it was so cool.
And then when Terry came over, at some point I had sung Terry my song, Me And I was like,we have to get her, it's too good.
get Pam.
(31:55):
Here's my song written before joining the art sluts, Me and My Little Fingers.
Well, you know, Sheila, well, the other day after work, you know, I just walked into thisbar, you know, just to get a drink, to relax a little bit, you know, just drink a beer
and, and, you know, I know how you feel about your libido, but I think I got the solutionto this problem because I was sitting at the bar, ordered a draw and I pulled out a
(32:21):
cigarette.
This guy on my right's already got out his light and I said to myself, shit, not again.
Baby, what's your name and how old are you?
How long you been in this town and do ya go to school?
Do you get high and would you like to try to get to know me, know me better?
(32:45):
I said, okay baby so ya'll wanna screw?
Well there's just one thing I wanna ask you.
Ask you gonna jump on, off and lay your weary head down.
Cause I get better satisfaction when there's no one around, just me.
Me and my little fingers Me Me and my little fingers Well I fantasize, romanticize Youknow that no one satisfies Like me Me and my little fingers Yeah well I was sitting at
(33:21):
home I answered the phone It was the pretty nice guy that I know
He said, tonight's a movie that I really wanna see and I was wondering if you wanted togo.
And later that night, after the show, we get in his car, he says, I'll drive you home.
We get there and then he says, can I come in?
(33:43):
I'd to know you, know you better.
I said.
Okay baby so y 'all wanna screw?
Well that's just one thing I wanna ask you Ask you gonna jump on, off and lay your wearyhead down Cause I get better satisfaction when there's no one around Just me, me and my
(34:03):
little fingers Me, me and my little fingers Well I fantasize, romanticize, you know thatno one satisfies
Like me, me and my little fingers
(34:26):
And so she's like, Ann and Sheila need to hear this song.
And then when they're like, you want to join?
I just thought I was the coolest person on the planet because Ann and Sheila and Terrywere so cool.
And I was, I was not, was, I didn't see myself that In my eyes, you were like the realmusician.
was like, wow, we actually got a real musician.
(34:48):
You didn't have to teach yourself how to the guitar.
You already knew how to play the guitar.
Actually, you know who taught me how to play the guitar?
Lee Ruth.
my God.
Yeah, I started my I love sisters and I, my dad had met him at KOPN and had all of us gotake lessons.
(35:08):
Well, I think me and at least another sister, two more sisters, Angie and Debbie tooklessons from Lee Ruth who is still around playing.
He is.
Okay, listen, Pam, I swear that Lee Ruth sang this song.
I can see your halo standing by my window.
(35:29):
That's D.
Werner.
You have to, I need a copy of that song.
It stays in the back of my mind.
And when I went to go, I found somebody who, it was Mike McMahon, still talked to Lee Ruthand asked him, he's like, I didn't write that song.
I had it in my brain.
But that was a Lee Ruth song because we used to hang out at the Shea, right?
When the art sluts, I met my husband.
(35:51):
That's right.
Larry.
Right?
Larry Williams, he was a big slab.
Yes, he was.
Right.
And then we had the Terry and Larry show on Wednesday nights at the Shea where wesponsored things.
And that's where I remember your sister and her partner at the time, was the.
What is her name?
Anyway, they did performance together.
(36:12):
They did dance poetry stuff, right?
Yes.
Yes.
I that.
You know, so D Werner was a folk musician in St.
Louis who
was my mom and dad's best friend.
She just died a few years ago and she performed at a lot of different events over theyears.
I a couple of her albums.
(36:33):
You have that song on an album?
yeah.
I will push or shove you through the doors I've opened.
That's remarkable.
My brain remembers it.
My brain, don't, but the lyrics are so compelling.
It's like, I love you, but I'm not going to shove you or push you.
And if you want me, come get me.
And so many of her liberatories are so unique.
(36:57):
And I just they're all.
Wish that they had been out there more.
You know, she wasn't really out there to promote herself.
She was just writing songs and performing.
Well, I think that that's a big part of what like we're thinking about the culture that wewere in was a very DIY culture full of musicians and artists.
(37:18):
And so it didn't seem odd for us to go, well, we could do that.
We just did it.
it was was unselfconscious.
It wasn't like I mean, of course, we would joke about becoming famous and all that.
But it was really it was to to please ourselves and our friends.
And it was, you know, I think everybody had that.
Well, also a little bit of my punk teenager.
(37:39):
If those boys can do that, I can do it better.
I mean, it's definitely for me a feminist position of anything you could do, I could dobetter.
Right.
And if you're going to go and have this blah, blah, all that, I'm going to, you know, andI should, I, I was just going to say D was my original inspiration for becoming a musician
(38:02):
and writing songs and learning how to play guitar.
That's great.
I have, keep these old guitar player magazines because when they come into the store andthey're just fascinating.
mean, they're just so in depth.
And so I was
Then there's funny ads and stuff, but every once in a while it'll hit me.
And they had like a center spread in the 1976 magazine and it had every different genre,know, country, bluegrass, classical, rock, not a single female guitar player anywhere on
(38:34):
there.
Wow.
Wow.
Remarkable.
Until next time, we're Artslut.
We're artsluts.
Okay, one more time.
Thanks for listening to artsluts radio.
(38:55):
Hey, if you identify with the artsluts, explore our herstory at artsluts .net.
That's -R -T -S -L -U -T -S dot net and purchase downloads of our music wherever youstream music.
(39:17):
Currently, 21 states have limited access to women's health care, including abortion, and15 of those have a total ban.
Talking about your abortion experience, voting and donating to support abortion rightswill make a difference.
(39:37):
I hate to leave you
It's just my music, baby
So we fucked it.
it was there.
We're artsluts.
Anyway, hey, welcome to the artsluts.
Yeah, it's gonna happen.
(00:25):
Because we're artsluts.
Whoa, man, you're your host engineer.
So maybe maybe one of y 'all can be the host on the next one.
And avoid my faux pas.
No, I think it's good.
So anyway, we were talking about Kenny Green and the bar next to the sub shop and thenChautauqua Center.
(00:50):
I did talk to Ro at the Chautauqua Center for we should introduce ourselves.
Yeah.
What's your name?
You're right.
My name's Ann Wood.
I'm Pam Doherty.
I'm Terry Chalky.
And we're the.
people that remain from the arts lets.
Which is a punk Sheila Brynjolfsson is here in spirit.
(01:10):
Absolutely.
She's very, she's enjoying herself for sure.
And so the arts lets with the all woman punk rock band in the eighties, basically from 84to 86 in Columbia, Missouri, in the middle of a punk rock DIY scene that happened almost a
decade before the gorilla girl scene.
(01:32):
Absolutely.
Evergreen.
and, Olivia where I live.
I'm right now in Olympia right now.
And I'm in Atlanta.
Now, do you, do you characterize us as punk rock?
Because I going to say performance.
always thought of us as per for a performance art band because we had elements of that,but yeah, we had punk though too.
(01:52):
Yeah, we did, but I we were more than more than punk rock.
Well, first of all, DIY, you get to
self -defined, right?
You get to choose and whatever comes out of your mouth about who you are, that's who youare, right?
But I definitely, one of things I definitely wanted to bring up today, as I just finishedrereading for the second time, is Assuming the Ecosexual Position by Annie Sprinkl and
(02:15):
Beth Stevens.
And what they talk about is that they're a part of the Fluxus art movement, which is,know, a European art movement that Yoko Ono was part of that, Carolee Schneeman was part
of that, and we're clearly
historically embedded in that kind of a particular kind of feminist body art performanceart.
And that what we were doing had no precedent in the culture that we were in.
(02:38):
And don't forget Yayoi Kusama, who also did nude performance art and painting on her bodyin 1960.
Right.
like us, so that was in Caroline Schneemann, the Meatjoy stuff happened in 62, 64.
But you know, American artists have always been very America as a culture has been veryinhospitable to well, so misogynist, right?
(03:06):
But females women using their bodies as part of the art so the way that we cut our hairthe way that we Right did all those costume changes all of that.
So definitely saw ourselves as the site of art Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And the fluxes movement is about that.
It's about
your life being an offering of art, your whole life, the whole thing.
(03:31):
So we were talking a few minutes ago before we pushed the record button about Take Three,how we met each other and what was influencing us back then.
Terry, I hesitate to ask you a third time, but I would love to hear your story about,please, Stevens.
(03:55):
Okay, I'm from west side of Cleveland, Ohio, but I need to get away from my family oforigin and all that scene.
So I got a scholarship to Columbia, Missouri, and I went to this fancy, my papa called ita rich bitch school.
I went to Stevens College, which is a private women's school.
And there were three professors there, Wally Wells, Dr.
(04:19):
Jimmy, James Whitehall, two other guys I can't remember right now.
But I will get my notes.
Anyway, they had created - I went to school because I wanted to be a talk show host likeDavid Letterman.
really?
Let's take a listen to my song, David Letterman.
(04:41):
I know that a lot of people have, you know, kind of heroes or superstars in the media andI have one too.
I know it's kind of silly but my hero is David Letterman and I wrote this song for him andsomeday he'll hear it and he'll want to marry me.
He will.
Yeah, Terry.
(05:01):
He will.
I want a fan that will tell stupid jokes I want to be like David Letterman Even when I wasa little girl David You were an excuse to stay up late
(05:27):
I watch all the stupid pet tricks I snack on Mr.
Larry's toast sticks And David, I'm in love
With the space between your two front teeth I want a TV show of my very own I want tolaugh at my own jokes I want fan mail from around the world I want to be like David
(06:02):
Letterman Whenever I get depressed about
Nuclear waste or my love life or death or the government or the imminent apocalypse All Igotta do is turn on the tube And David you're there with your perfect smile You keep me
(06:28):
from feeling blue
well.
(07:04):
I like the way you humiliate people, you're so rude.
And the tacky fake New York skyline you sit in front of is so cool.
I want a TV show of my very own I want a laugh at my own jokes I want fan mail from aroundthe world I want to be like David Letterman
(07:36):
And you know I like you in Velcro David All those famous people on your show Like LaurieAnderson And David Byrne Steve Weir Herman Rob Dylan Tom Waits Peter Tosh Alan Ginsburg
Well I just wanna be like them And sit next to you on the show
(08:02):
I want a talk show of my very own and get paid for having fun I want the arts floods towrite me a song I want to be like David David David Letterman
(08:26):
yeah, no for real.
So I was a communications major But then I had this work trade working in the collegiateroom, which is this little, you know snack shop where you cooked hamburgers That's how we
met all the guys that we hung out with because they were also working there Yeah, and Ithis guy was down there while he was and he would like say really loud Masturbation to get
everybody's attention.
We were like, who is that guy?
(08:48):
Right.
It was like a conversation starter.
He was a polyamorous He taught a class on intentional communities.
He was a total wild card
And actually died of cancer two years after I graduated.
But he and these other professors created an interdisciplinary degree called humanecology.
my gosh.
So I studied systems theory, solar panels.
(09:09):
We had a beta house that we energy retrofitted with a zen garden in the back.
So it was very, very revolutionary.
And the main thing they were teaching us was to think critically.
And they were concerned about climate change then.
In 1983 is when I graduated.
So that education completely changed my world, you know, and I still live by the valuesand the ideas that I learned then.
(09:33):
So it was definitely, even though everybody was like, what did you do with all that money?
How are you going to get work?
Cause what I was working at the rag rag stock in the sub shop after I got a degree, youknow, Terry that you worked at rag stock too.
I forgot about that.
I have that cute little picture of me with the beanie on the phone.
that's right.
That's right.
(09:53):
I'm going to throw my kitty some treats so she'll be quiet.
OK, show her.
Show that pussy some treats.
You do it.
That's that's actually how I met Sheila was I applied for the job.
Yeah, you were the assistant manager, right?
I was assistant manager and we were we were just troublemakers, as you know.
(10:13):
Yeah.
We just.
Well, I remember all those those beautiful fur coats.
my god.
In the back room.
yes, they were used a couple times.
Our auxiliary shag fest.
That was so awesome.
I hadn't thought about that in a while either.
And how we decorated, we separated the clothes by color.
(10:36):
So it'd be everything red, everything blue, everything in a rainbow.
And that's revolutionary.
That's like, that's like current design.
We're talking about rag it was vintage.
Were you talking about Sheila's shop?
Yeah, vintage clothes, right?
Vintage, beautiful clothes, which I wore all the time with my high heels and my cutelittle hats and gloves to go dancing at By George's, which we all called Bihexual Jorge's.
(11:01):
By George's, That's right.
But we said, hang out with Fex and wear our clothes sloppy.
OK.
Let's take a listen to the Art Sluts theme song written by all the Art Sluts.
(11:23):
We don't shave our armpits We don't wash our hair We like being single We don't wearunderwear We smoke lots of smacks And drink too much coffee We hang out with facts And
(11:48):
wear our clothes sloppy
Because we're arse -luss Do it for the inspiration Do it for investigation To find out howthey tick Then we found they had a dick So we fucked it
(12:09):
As it was there, we're arts floods.
We cut our hair really funny.
We used dog clippers to save some money.
(12:32):
We call our boyfriends instead of honey.
We don't really mean to, but we, we treat them crummy, cause we're art slugs.
Do it for the inspiration, do it for investigation, to find out how they tick, then wefound they had a dick!
(13:00):
So we fucked it.
Because it was there.
We're art slots.
We go to their band practices and pretend that we care.
(13:22):
We stare at their paintings and play with our hair.
We try to express our repressed masculinity.
We were 15 when we lost our virginity.
(13:45):
We're arts -lusts Do it for the inspiration Do it for investigation To find out how theytick Then we found they had a dick So we fucked it
Cause it was there We're our blood
(14:11):
there and I saved them really cool clothes from my store.
I find sex very inspirational to my artwork.
I really like painting but I'd rather have it kind of around my toes and up my legs andthe back and well you know what I mean.
Well you guys I still haven't worked out my line yet.
don't have a pan.
This is a demo tape man.
(14:35):
Well, okay, we'll just forget it.
Cutter some slack.
Yeah, you know, this is just...
We are slugs.
Do it for the inspiration.
Do it for investigation.
Too fun to hardly tick.
Then we found they had a dick.
So we fuck them.
(14:57):
And you know, it's interesting when I was going back to thinking about how I got into thismindset, one of the
critical things that happened before I got into music was I was going to school in Indianaand it was a called a living learning center, which is like you had to have done travel to
another country or you had to be studying something unique or and so it was a place whereevery instead of dinner they would have a lecturer come in.
(15:25):
Anyway, long story short, we started my girlfriend and I started dressing up to shock.
That was like 1982.
That's what I'm saying.
rock.
And we go downtown and we go to the gay bar, punk rock bar, drag show.
(15:47):
was like depending on the time of the evening, the very last thing was drag show or nomaybe it was drag show then punk rock show.
And so that was like my first.
Indiana or this was Columbia?
This was Indiana.
I was at school there and then I transferred because I lost my Pell Grant because ofRonald Reagan.
Yeah, hey, it worked out, right?
(16:07):
I get to meet you all.
So went to UMC then?
went to UMC then?
Okay, okay.
And what was your major?
Indiana was Japanese and religious studies.
then in Columbia, it was English, creative writing, poetry.
So yeah.
(16:28):
And Pam grew up in Columbia and actually went to
Mizzou and moved into a dorm, even though my parents' house was just a couple miles out oftown because I wanted to, you know, college life and hated the dorm experience.
(16:48):
And that first or I guess it was the second year I joined the Missourians for Safe Energyto try to stop this nuclear power plant from being built in Callaway County.
And I met all these very cool hippies that were 10 years older than me.
and had the Third Street House.
(17:08):
And that's where you met the Anarchists.
Anarchists Collective, yeah.
And so I just quit school and moved into Third Avenue.
And that started my trajectory to working at KOPN, learning about KOPN and all these otherthings that were going on.
Was the Anarchists Collective?
Yeah, it was called the Third Avenue Anarchists Collective.
(17:30):
And they put out
Anarchy a Journal of Desire armed.
I was very proud of living I still have a copy of that It's brilliant.
Yeah, I mean still very radical cutting -edge thinking -huh Yeah, and then how did thethree of us?
Meet each other.
Well, I know that it happened because when I was working at ragstock with Anne and SheilaAfter work, sometimes we would get high and that's when we started to make all the music
(17:57):
in the kitchen every day hanging out in me How did you meet Anne and Sheila?
I got a job at Ragstock.
was working at Ragstock.
And then I met you because I was working at the sub shop.
So this is my first because Lori and you and I all worked at the sub shop.
the people that - the sub shop too.
Yeah.
And then, and Angie too, right?
Or did Angie work at Ernie's?
Angie worked at Ernie's.
(18:18):
Okay.
So we're talking about two blocks.
to Ernie's.
Really?
Who slept with who?
Like a block because the sub shop was across the street from Ernie's.
then the bar And then to talk -
don't remember the name of the bar, but it was right next to it.
And then Chautauqua Center right was right down the street.
thought that's where we had our first show.
(18:40):
Yeah, I thought of that.
I thought of the other guy's name.
So the the guys that did the jujitsu training, which I did for summer, it was Kenny Greenand Tink.
Remember Tink?
was.
Tink.
Yeah.
wow.
When I got done with work at Sub Shop and I would go over to the bar and Tank would sitdown next to me.
So nice.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
would tell my troubles to him and he would give me all these remarkable solutions becauseI think he used to be in the armed forces or the military.
(19:07):
And so he would give me all this wisdom about sort of like, you have no idea what whatreal trouble is like.
yeah, he would always give me advice.
He was my my therapist.
Working at the sub shop was a big crossover for me because the boys, Pete Spots, who Istill know you guys, right?
(19:29):
He just moved back to Columbia two years ago, right?
But Pete Spots, Jeff Fander, Miriam Harline, who is now Melanie Henry, all this group ofpeople that were going to school at UMC but working at the sub shop.
Right?
And then taking classes, we all took classes on astrology and poetry and channeling at theChautauqua Center.
(19:54):
So that's how we knew each other.
And then I had that job for a little while at the city, which I quit to go rescue Pam fromAustin, which was hilarious.
I want to take a minute to to like give Sheila's introduction, if that's okay with youall.
please.
Yeah.
OK.
So for sure, I think we all agree that.
(20:15):
the artslets would not have happened if it weren't for Sheila.
Absolutely.
Pam mentioned, would you tell the story the first time you saw her?
just I was at Ernie's and she walked in the door and I just remember just droppingeverything and just staring at her because she just had this profound physical beauty.
(20:36):
Well, not just physical, but just spiritual stunning.
And and I remember
It's at a certain point realizing I wasn't the only one in Ernie staring at her.
Everyone was.
And a lot of people actually knew her, but she just very quietly went and sat at the atthe counter on a stool and ordered some coffee and wasn't really actually chatting anyone
(20:59):
up.
But I just remember that was my first impression was that I couldn't ever remember seeinganyone as beautiful.
And I know that's subjective, but.
And then to find out she was like a car mechanic.
Let's take a listen to Sheila's a mechanical genius.
(21:44):
When you cook the toast
and I tried it the other day.
(22:13):
And I said, that's good, yeah we gotta do that.
Okay, Sheila said, where's the coffee?
And I said...
But you know Sheila, she's an electrical genius!
Yeah, she's an electrical genius!
mechanic!
She's an electrical magician!
Yeah!
(22:33):
She's family of magicians!
She's a magical genius!
She's an electrical magician!
on and the light came on, there was no sound.
(23:20):
Yeah!
It's tire!
Speaking of cars, yeah, Sheila learned it's learning how to fix her own car because...
(24:04):
So she her background is her mom was from She said Persia, but I guess it would have beenIraq and then her dad was from Sweden or a Swedish descent Her her upbringing.
I don't know if y 'all are aware of this, but it's very Wild, I don't know the extent ofwhat she experienced.
(24:25):
She grew up in a trailer
a little bit outside of Columbia, I believe.
And her father, I believe, was an alcoholic.
And one night she woke up, he had set the trailer on fire on purpose.
And she left and shortly after that, she ran away from home.
(24:46):
She was 14.
and she went to Minneapolis because of Bob Dylan and she ended up meeting, yeah, she endedup meeting all these hippies and she forged her driver's license to say she was 16 so she
wouldn't get arrested and it was not till like years later that she told me, because Ialways thought she was, know, we were the same age, you she was older than me.
(25:11):
Yes, and so, and as you guys know, the Sheila that you met,
could she could kind of do anything, know, car mechanic.
Just had the confidence in yourself.
Exactly.
And she did a wrestling, comprehensive wrestling encyclopedia before she died.
And she ended up, she dropped out of school and then she ended up getting her GED, wentand taught at Columbia College and became a medieval scholar.
(25:39):
So yeah.
So, but
But she was just stunningly beautiful.
funny and smart.
funny, funny.
So yeah, we did the first song that we wrote.
And I can't remember.
I think this is right before, Terry, you started coming over.
I believe you can correct me if I'm wrong.
(26:01):
The maggots and potatoes.
Which was true.
It was there because there were actual maggots in the potato.
the maggots.
I remember that.
We lived upstairs at the...
I believe I was there at the originating incident.
At the Hinkson house, there was a tiny little kitchen.
It was just like a little studio.
And underneath is where Sheila kept her sort of like onions and potatoes and whatnot.
(26:25):
And I lived on the same floor, but in another bedroom.
And yeah, maggots and potatoes.
And so we did the punk rock version.
Here's the first song we ever wrote called, maggots and potatoes.
I remember the maggots.
Julie, remember the maggots that we had no potatoes?
mean a couple months ago.
(26:46):
they were gross.
You were, I can't stand it.
I remember the black slime.
You remember the black slime?
no, no, but I remember the white squirmy.
the pink.
and the smell when you opened the And you the cereal out.
it was bad.
It was almost like the frozen chicken levers.
it was bad.
(27:06):
the maggots.
maggots.
Maggots and potatoes.
Maggots and potatoes.
maggots.
(27:29):
I'm
Yeah
It's dancing!
Little maggot condoms!
Maggameth in potatoes!
Wait for me, maggot!
(28:06):
Turn on the fuckers now!
Yeah, mega!
Fuck you, mega!
You make me sick!
Fuck off, ass!
Ass!
Mega makes me sick!
it was really close!
Fuck you, mega!
so close!
It was a metal party!
(28:29):
I hate you so much!
That was really disgusting!
fuck you, man!
I'm going to you have to cry!
(28:58):
And the next day at Ernie's played it for many people, including Joe Madison.
You remember him?
Yes, I do.
The lawyer.
Yeah.
And everybody laughed.
And of course, that like just fed our encouragement.
then Terry, read this.
What I remember about Terry, I don't know why I don't remember the rag stock thing asmuch, but I remember vividly the three of us sitting around smoking pot in Sheila's
(29:23):
bedroom recording and you were playing like
like a Mason jar with beans in it.
Yeah, a jar with beans in it.
Yeah.
For the percussion.
But because I already thought I was a musician because I've been doing music with BrianHelton and Kara Tomlinson.
So when I was still at Stevens, I had a...
(29:46):
because of Laurie Anderson's album came out.
And we really loved Superman and we're like, this is so minimalist, we could do this.
So good.
know?
Yeah, mean the thing when right before the maggots and potatoes, like I can't remember theexact thing but Ragstock, remember the road apple?
(30:08):
That was where the punk rock shows would be.
Klaus and
One of the other guys, I Tim and Artie came and put a poster up at Ragstock and it said,Rode Apple.
We didn't go to that show, but we went to Club Decrepit, which was in the basement of ahouse.
And we saw Causes of Tragedy.
Jesus.
And they were horrible.
(30:30):
They really horrible.
And we were like, we could do better than this.
Come on.
And I had this visual of everybody there, including myself, were all dressed in black.
And Sheila was there.
And she had this forest green.
jacket, know, 40s coat on.
She was the only color in the entire and we did this.
Yeah, exactly.
Said, we can do this is terrible.
(30:52):
We can do this.
Mm hmm.
Was the road apple that kind of metal building out in the outskirts of time where that'swhere all the queer shit was to all the the all the dark dances and there was it wasn't
there a gay bar different one outside of Columbia?
Not that wasn't the road apple.
(31:12):
Nothing ever lasted very long.
You know, it like I was like there for a year or half a half a year or something and justkept changing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the first the first show was in the basement of the Chautauqua Center.
That's right.
Yeah.
OK.
So so vivid.
(31:33):
That's so vivid.
Now, Pam, you had you had not joined us yet.
I had not joined yet.
I was there to watch and I thought.
I thought it was so cool.
And then when Terry came over, at some point I had sung Terry my song, Me And I was like,we have to get her, it's too good.
get Pam.
(31:55):
Here's my song written before joining the art sluts, Me and My Little Fingers.
Well, you know, Sheila, well, the other day after work, you know, I just walked into thisbar, you know, just to get a drink, to relax a little bit, you know, just drink a beer
and, and, you know, I know how you feel about your libido, but I think I got the solutionto this problem because I was sitting at the bar, ordered a draw and I pulled out a
(32:21):
cigarette.
This guy on my right's already got out his light and I said to myself, shit, not again.
Baby, what's your name and how old are you?
How long you been in this town and do ya go to school?
Do you get high and would you like to try to get to know me, know me better?
(32:45):
I said, okay baby so ya'll wanna screw?
Well there's just one thing I wanna ask you.
Ask you gonna jump on, off and lay your weary head down.
Cause I get better satisfaction when there's no one around, just me.
Me and my little fingers Me Me and my little fingers Well I fantasize, romanticize Youknow that no one satisfies Like me Me and my little fingers Yeah well I was sitting at
(33:21):
home I answered the phone It was the pretty nice guy that I know
He said, tonight's a movie that I really wanna see and I was wondering if you wanted togo.
And later that night, after the show, we get in his car, he says, I'll drive you home.
We get there and then he says, can I come in?
(33:43):
I'd to know you, know you better.
I said.
Okay baby so y 'all wanna screw?
Well that's just one thing I wanna ask you Ask you gonna jump on, off and lay your wearyhead down Cause I get better satisfaction when there's no one around Just me, me and my
(34:03):
little fingers Me, me and my little fingers Well I fantasize, romanticize, you know thatno one satisfies
Like me, me and my little fingers
(34:26):
And so she's like, Ann and Sheila need to hear this song.
And then when they're like, you want to join?
I just thought I was the coolest person on the planet because Ann and Sheila and Terrywere so cool.
And I was, I was not, was, I didn't see myself that In my eyes, you were like the realmusician.
was like, wow, we actually got a real musician.
(34:48):
You didn't have to teach yourself how to the guitar.
You already knew how to play the guitar.
Actually, you know who taught me how to play the guitar?
Lee Ruth.
my God.
Yeah, I started my I love sisters and I, my dad had met him at KOPN and had all of us gotake lessons.
(35:08):
Well, I think me and at least another sister, two more sisters, Angie and Debbie tooklessons from Lee Ruth who is still around playing.
He is.
Okay, listen, Pam, I swear that Lee Ruth sang this song.
I can see your halo standing by my window.
(35:29):
That's D.
Werner.
You have to, I need a copy of that song.
It stays in the back of my mind.
And when I went to go, I found somebody who, it was Mike McMahon, still talked to Lee Ruthand asked him, he's like, I didn't write that song.
I had it in my brain.
But that was a Lee Ruth song because we used to hang out at the Shea, right?
When the art sluts, I met my husband.
(35:51):
That's right.
Larry.
Right?
Larry Williams, he was a big slab.
Yes, he was.
Right.
And then we had the Terry and Larry show on Wednesday nights at the Shea where wesponsored things.
And that's where I remember your sister and her partner at the time, was the.
What is her name?
Anyway, they did performance together.
(36:12):
They did dance poetry stuff, right?
Yes.
Yes.
I that.
You know, so D Werner was a folk musician in St.
Louis who
was my mom and dad's best friend.
She just died a few years ago and she performed at a lot of different events over theyears.
I a couple of her albums.
(36:33):
You have that song on an album?
yeah.
I will push or shove you through the doors I've opened.
That's remarkable.
My brain remembers it.
My brain, don't, but the lyrics are so compelling.
It's like, I love you, but I'm not going to shove you or push you.
And if you want me, come get me.
And so many of her liberatories are so unique.
(36:57):
And I just they're all.
Wish that they had been out there more.
You know, she wasn't really out there to promote herself.
She was just writing songs and performing.
Well, I think that that's a big part of what like we're thinking about the culture that wewere in was a very DIY culture full of musicians and artists.
(37:18):
And so it didn't seem odd for us to go, well, we could do that.
We just did it.
it was was unselfconscious.
It wasn't like I mean, of course, we would joke about becoming famous and all that.
But it was really it was to to please ourselves and our friends.
And it was, you know, I think everybody had that.
Well, also a little bit of my punk teenager.
(37:39):
If those boys can do that, I can do it better.
I mean, it's definitely for me a feminist position of anything you could do, I could dobetter.
Right.
And if you're going to go and have this blah, blah, all that, I'm going to, you know, andI should, I, I was just going to say D was my original inspiration for becoming a musician
(38:02):
and writing songs and learning how to play guitar.
That's great.
I have, keep these old guitar player magazines because when they come into the store andthey're just fascinating.
mean, they're just so in depth.
And so I was
Then there's funny ads and stuff, but every once in a while it'll hit me.
And they had like a center spread in the 1976 magazine and it had every different genre,know, country, bluegrass, classical, rock, not a single female guitar player anywhere on
(38:34):
there.
Wow.
Wow.
Remarkable.
Until next time, we're Artslut.
We're artsluts.
Okay, one more time.
Thanks for listening to artsluts radio.
(38:55):
Hey, if you identify with the artsluts, explore our herstory at artsluts .net.
That's -R -T -S -L -U -T -S dot net and purchase downloads of our music wherever youstream music.
(39:17):
Currently, 21 states have limited access to women's health care, including abortion, and15 of those have a total ban.
Talking about your abortion experience, voting and donating to support abortion rightswill make a difference.
(39:37):
I hate to leave you
It's just my music, baby
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