Katee Robert

We had the pleasure of speaking with New York Times and USA Today Bestselling author Katee Robert. Join us as she shares about her author journey, writing spicy romances about gods and goddesses, and so much more.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Hello and welcome to the author spotlight with Kenya Gori Bell and myself, Mommy Voice.
Today we have with us New York Times and USA Today bestselling author, Katie Robert.
Thank you so much for being able to join us today.
Please, if you would take the opportunity and tell us a little bit about yourself.

(01:06):
Yeah.

(01:49):
Yeah.

(02:18):
So I know you said you've been in this over a decade.
How many?
Because I, it was funny because I, when I'd gone to your site, I was just like, oh my God,I don't think I realize exactly how many books you've written.
So how many is it?
Oh my god!

(02:39):
That is amazing.
I love that.

(03:36):
Yeah.

(04:17):
I feel like you're the second person we've had on the show that had kind of the sameexperience of starting out traditional, then going independent, and then coming back into,
and kind of, like you said, being able to kind of call the shots about what they want toput out and not be kind of dictated to.
And so I love those stories of being more empowered once you step back into that space.

(04:48):
Yeah.

(05:19):
You

(05:54):
You

(06:25):
You
Yeah.

(08:32):
Yeah.
You
Uh, yeah.

(09:24):
Thank you.

(09:57):
you

(10:29):
You

(11:12):
Thank you.
You

(11:56):
Yeah.

(12:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.

(12:38):
Heheheheh!
That's crazy!

(13:28):
Bye.
Why am I so like, it's like I know that they have books in prison, but I'm just like, youget no, you got a notification that a person was like, that is so hilarious to me.

(13:53):
Yeah.
That is cute by me.
With all the silly water in the prison, but that is not.

(14:38):
Yes, oh my god, I'm sure people would be like, grabbing it off the shelf.

(16:01):
I'm going to go to bed.

(16:47):
Yeah.

(17:33):
Yeah.

(18:07):
Thank you.

(18:57):
You

(19:53):
No, but I love that because at least you're, you know, we always talk about like when itcomes to like diversity and inclusion is like people being allies, like you are like the
walking definition of doing that.
Like you walk the walk, you're not just like, you know, saying words and then there's nolike action or whatever behind it.
And I love that, that it does bother you, you know, and I think that's for a lot ofpeople, especially marginalized or people of color.

(20:20):
is that we want people to empathize and understand from our standpoint.
And I feel like you really get that.
And I love that.
I think that's so amazing that you want to stand up even if it means that some people maybe turned off by it or whatever.
It's like, you don't care.
I love it.

(20:50):
Yeah.
No.

(21:47):
you

(22:13):
Yeah.
Hehehehe

(22:47):
I'm going to go to bed.
Yeah.

(23:19):
Really?
Okay, now I have to take this test.
I've not taken it.

(23:42):
Yeah.
You

(24:18):
I'm
Hehehehehe

(24:44):
Interesting.

(25:19):
Okay.
Oh yeah, sales things.

(25:41):
Hey.

(26:16):
Oh, that's awesome!
Yeah, to be the ones at the forefront of that.

(26:52):
Hehehehe!
Yeah.

(27:23):
Oh wow!
Yeah.

(27:48):
you

(28:12):
Yeah, because I was lost in Ireland too as well, yeah.

(29:39):
It's amazing.

(30:03):
with
You

(30:58):
Yeah.
with
Yeah.
That's amazing.

(31:36):
Yeah.
I'm

(32:15):
You

(32:43):
Okay.

(33:39):
Yeah!
Yeah.

(34:18):
Yeah.

(34:40):
Yeah.
But also it's your books and you're allowed to create the world building or whatever thatis that you want.

(35:05):
Yeah.

(35:52):
you
Yeah.

(36:28):
Yeah.
Yes.

(36:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.

(37:25):
I'm

(38:41):
Thank you.

(39:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
that won't benefit you in the end, especially as a writer.
And I think sometimes it's hard for readers to understand that.

(39:26):
Like, you know, part of our decision -making isn't just based on giving them what theywant, but it has to make financial sense for us since this is how we make our money.

(40:00):
Can you talk a little bit more about like how you got into like deciding to doKickstarter?
Because I took, let's see, I can't even remember the name of the conference right now offthe top of my head, but it was 2021 and you gave kind of like a class on Kickstarter and
how to use it.
And I still have those notes because I'm like, I am gonna get to this to do that orwhatever.
But I just love that you kind of shared that with everybody and you weren't like kind oflike a hoarder, like I've managed to make this successful and I'm gonna keep it for

(40:27):
myself.
And you really, I mean, that was...
for me was probably one of my favorite classes that I took during that conference was theKickstarter one that you gave.
you

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Yeah.

(41:13):
Yeah.

(42:30):
Okay.
You

(42:54):
Yeah.
Okay.

(43:25):
Oh wow.
Yeah.

(43:49):
Yeah, I was gonna say.
Yeah.
God, now you're making me really want to...

(44:09):
Because I think some of us get in our head like, oh I have to wait until this, whetherthat's I get this amount of audience or make this amount of money or whatever, but now
you're making me reconsider maybe pushing my button and doing something sooner.
No, bro.

(44:29):
What kind of dog are you, huh?

(44:54):
Hahaha!
Yeah.
Exactly.

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Yeah.

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You're awesome.
Yeah.

(46:11):
No.
Yeah.

(47:04):
You

(47:28):
Oh

(48:04):
Yeah.
the end.

(48:43):
Mm.
Mm.
I mean that makes sense.
I mean a lot of times I think in a lot of different areas that happens where it's like youlove someone or like their work or whatever but maybe working styles just don't work or

(49:12):
different things like that.
So that makes sense.
But I mean, the thing is, too, I mean, people are walking into this and they have tounderstand this is your baby, your project.

(49:35):
So it is kind of your way.
So, I mean, they should be willing to adapt for the opportunity.
I mean, what they do personally in their own work is one thing.
But I think when you're working with someone else, and especially given it's somethingthat you created, they should be willing to adapt for a time to the way you want to do

(49:56):
things.
yeah yeah yeah, go right ahead
Oh no, you're totally fine!

(50:19):
First I was like, do you need to answer?
I didn't realize somebody else was at home with you.
I was like, if you need to go like talk to him really quickly.
But I want to know who do you have like a favorite character out of like the WickedVillains that you wrote?

(51:16):
Yeah.
Hahaha!

(51:45):
Yeah.

(52:08):
No.

(52:35):
Yeah.
I'm sorry.

(53:39):
you

(54:05):
you

(54:52):
Yeah.
Hehehehe

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You
Yeah.

(57:00):
Ooh, I love it.

(57:20):
I'm

(57:42):
Yeah.

(58:14):
Yeah.
I'm

(58:41):
Yes.
That's it.

(59:19):
Eww.
Oh, diversity.

(59:42):
Oh cool.
Okay.
And where can people find you at online?
You

(01:00:15):
I'm sorry.
Yeah, me too.
What?

(01:00:46):
Heheheheh!

(01:01:29):
you
Yeah.

(01:01:51):
So awesome.
Wow.
Yeah.

(01:02:20):
Yeah!
Yeah, I wouldn't want to go.

(01:03:25):
Yeah.
Wow.

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Yeah.
You

(01:04:09):
Mm, yeah.

(01:04:34):
I'm
Yeah.
Thank you so much for being a part.

(01:04:55):
Yeah.
Bye.

(14:35:35):
YAY!
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
I've been doing the romance thing for over a decade now, which is like 80 years in romanceyears, I think.

(14:35:58):
I write mostly like high heat romance in a variety of genres because I have ADHD and I getbored.
So currently, like dark romance and fantasy romance is where I've landed.
Oh, and a little bit of monster romance started.
So where will the future take me?
We don't know.

(14:36:19):
And I'm so glad you're here.
You were one of my first guests on the original author spotlight.
We talked a lot and then Katie blew up and then we were finally able to connect again.
And I just have to say, I'm so proud of you.
You have just taken the world by storm and like you're the bee's knees.

(14:36:41):
You are the most genuine person in, you know, on and off, you know.
live or the interwebs or whatever.
So that's why we're just like so happy that you're here with us.
And I think, you know, just watching you grow and watching you how you navigated the spaceof the author community, merging it with the business side is like a masterclass.

(14:37:11):
Just watching you work this like I am in awe.
I don't know.
And I'm not just saying that.
Um, I am in awe of you at this point.
You're amazing.
So welcome, welcome, welcome to the Out there Spotlight podcast.
It's all spite, it's all spite of me being like, ugh, this industry sucks.

(14:37:32):
Like, what are we doing?
I have a tiny modicum of power and I'm going to do whatever I can with it.
So we'll see.
I'm trying.
Oh god.
Oh, it's gotta be close to 100 now if I'm not over it.

(14:37:57):
Because I was averaging between 6 and 10 a year.
I'm still averaging between 6 and 10 a year.
It's...
I don't know how to do anything halfway and so...
Like initially it was just like I am I was working a minimum wage job and I'm notqualified to do anything else I think I am now but at the time it was like I'm a single

(14:38:21):
mom.
I have bills.
I can't pay them.
I I Need something and so I just happened to be in the right time in the right place withthe right book in like the Fifty Shades of Grey like when that was really hitting the
height of its fervor and then and then it all dried up in 2018 because that's what it doessometimes and so I

(14:38:43):
So then I went indie and that ended up being like the best thing for me because it was sofree and there wasn't people telling me no.
Like you can't do that.
You can't make everyone queer.
You can't, you know, do X, Y, Z.
Traditional really likes to tell people no.
Like no, that's not, that's not likable.
That's not forgivable.
You can't put a menage in the middle of whatever.

(14:39:04):
And so I did, I did it all.
And then it, it readers responded and it brought me back to traditional publishing, butlike,
I've learned a thing or two since then and so it's a partnership not a, oh my god I'm sothankful to be here.
And so I have no problem being like, no that doesn't work for me.
And I'm successful.

(14:39:26):
At this moment in time the golden light shines upon me, it will not always, but right nowit does and so while it does I'm just like elbowing my way through being like, we should
do this, like let's do this.
No one's telling me no, so I'm going to say yes, let's do it.

(14:40:04):
Well, traditional really benefits from authors just being happy to be there.
Like, they're in, cause the thing is, is that as we all saw during the trial with PenguinRandom House and Simon Schuster, like versus the US government, the CEO, the decision
makers at the top have no idea.

(14:40:25):
It's just vibes.
They don't know this works.
So I guess we're just going to keep doing it.
And so,
there are publishing houses that are becoming more innovative, especially in the lastcouple of years with like TikTok and like the industry is really changing in some ways.
Not in the ways it should change, but in some ways.
And so it's, it's nice to see authors kind of realizing like it's a business.

(14:40:51):
We can't all throw our weight around as much as we'd like to.
And like, there's a lot of things that I choose that are hills not to die on, but thestuff that's really important to me, like,
I don't care what the title is, as long as the cover's not hideous, we're fine.
Marketing, they're gonna do their thing.
I'm not precious about it, but when it comes to representation or like, you know, likecome on y 'all.

(14:41:15):
It's not that hard to just invite some more people to the table.
Right.
And so first let's talk about what three questions.
What was the book that was on the 50 Shades Cray so people can know to find that.
don't read it.
It's not even like it.

(14:41:36):
I was like, I don't know, 23 when I wrote it.
It's called Wrong Bed Right Guy.
My editor at the time was like, I want a wrong, because I was writing category romance,which is a very different animal than what I write now.
There's a lot of rules.
And my editor's like, I were launching this new like super sexy imprint.
I want a wrong bed book.

(14:41:57):
Cause like Wrong Bed is a trope that like is really prominent in Harlequin or at leastused to be.
And it's like, I want it, but with no cheating.
Like no cheating in this book, write this book for me.
And I had, I just, I injured myself at work.
Like I was lifting a box I should not have lifted and saw as home for like a week and ahalf or something.
And I wrote that book so fast and it's...

(14:42:21):
It's very much in everything but the kitchen sink because it's like he's a tattoo artistand they're like, oh no, he needs to be billionaire.
I'm like, he's a billionaire tattoo artist.
I don't know.
Like, whatever.
Like it's just if you like think about it at all, even a little bit, it falls apart.
But it was.
100%, 100%, but it had just a little it had something and like it like I said, it's fun,it's giddy, it's cracky, it's it's it's a sexy category romance, but.

(14:42:51):
love the fact that you said, don't read that book because I am like, now that people arediscovering my books, I'm like, don't read that book.
There's a couple years there when I was with like, Entangled Publishing specifically, likewith the Brazen imprint that like, I was just doing what I was doing and there I've slowly

(14:43:14):
been taking back rights on those books.
A lot of those books have disappeared because I'm like, it doesn't reflect who I am now orlike my values now and like, and unfortunately this is why friends don't sign contracts
with publishers unless you have an agent.
There are certain books I'll never get rights back to.
Mm -hmm.
I just took them off my website and like, we don't got to talk about it.

(14:43:34):
But I have the Come and Done Trilogy, which is Wrong Bed Right Guy, I think Chasing Mrs.
Right and I don't know, the third book, whatever it is.
Those ones I did republish in indie because I was like, it was like kind of a testament tothe time.
It's fine.
There's nothing like inherently horrible in those books.
It's just, you know, it's not what I put out now.

(14:43:54):
Okay, so let's talk about the one, okay, the books that blooded you, that brought you, andyou have to be under a rock if you haven't read Wicked Villain series, because that is, I
distinctly remember where I was when Sienna Snow told me, like, listen,

(14:44:24):
You are obviously a dark romance reader.
You got to read.
And you hadn't even came out with it yet.
And you was like, and we were following each other on Twitter.
It was like back when X was Twitter.
And you were like, I have this idea and I'm gonna do it.

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And I don't care.
Like you were so feisty about it.
It was like, I'm gonna do this thing.
saw a hole in the market at the time there was a lot of fairy tale retellings but thereweren't like villains were just sort of like people were doing i'm not the first i can't
even pretend i'm the first but like it wasn't as prominent as it is now and i was like ithink and i where it came to source is so like the wicked wallflowers podcast that used to

(14:45:12):
exist with jenny nordbeck and sarah holly they had like a facebook group thing and i
was just shit posting in there.
That's it.
I was shit posting.
I was like, Jafar is a daddy dom.
And they're like, oh my god, write this book.
And I was like, shit, I guess I'm writing it.
And it ended up being a blessing because I had promised that.
And so I couldn't chicken out on writing him as a daddy dom because I got in there and I'mlike, I don't know what I'm doing.

(14:45:34):
Oh, god, like, is this sexy?
I don't know if this is it is.
But yeah.
you know what, and when you hit published, I think we were all like ravenous for it andeverybody jumped on this book.
And then I think that is when the Katie Robert of today was bored because.
it it's interesting because like, when I find a new author, I really like reading theirbacklist because I can be like, oh, I see, like the fingerprints of like what you ended up

(14:46:02):
becoming like here.
And where I my fingerprints really started was actually the marriage contract, which it'sit's not queer at all.
It's not it's it's whatever.
But like I like I said, I've been writing category romance and I finally signed with anagent and was like, I just I'm burning out.
I need something else.
I was like, I want to write a mafia romance.
And she's like, I don't like, I don't really fuck with mafia romances, but like, you know,write it for me, send it to me.

(14:46:26):
We'll see what we do.
And so I wrote this, like first, this proposal in just a fury.
And I was like, she shoots the, her husband in the first chapter and like, blah, blah,blah.
She murders him.
And I was like, someone's going to tell me no.
Like someone is going to tell me no, because like, this is an unlikable heroin.
You can't just murder people.
Oh no.
My agent's like, this is great.
We're going on submission.

(14:46:47):
And then I was like, okay, well, the publishers are gonna be like, fuck off, you can't dothis.
And then they're like, no, this is good.
And so I ended up working with Leah Holtenschmidt at Forever Publishing.
And that was just like, there still was a lot of no, because Forever is very traditionalin like how they operate.

(14:47:10):
But it was a lot of like, hey,
run with it and like, Katie, could you maybe have like them break his fingers instead ofcut his fingers off?
Like just tone it down a tiny bit.
Like, but she really let me run and it started.
That's what like gave me and that's why I ended up writing Wicked Villains is cause I waslike, the market shifted to rom -coms, but like my readers for the O'Malley's and those

(14:47:34):
types of books are still exists.
Like they, I bet they'd want something like this if I write something like this, butdifferent.
And yeah.
And so.
If I had been thinking clearly, I probably would have started with a worthy opponentinstead of desperate measures because desperate measures go so hard so fast.
But, you know, it gave people something to talk about.
because that book starts out and I think he's, she's running from him and he catches heron the steps.

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And I was like, yes.
This is the fire of my dreams.
banned in a number of prisons.
Because I get notifications, or like, mail when they like, this book was not allowed to bein this prison.
And it's like, because there's assault.
And I was like, it's not actually, it's consensual non -consent, God.
But I digress.

(14:48:22):
explain that to a cis man and they're like absolutely not.
It's...
I didn't realize that you got the - because I also got one for your dad will do that waslike, they are having sex with their daughter -in -law and that's not - and I'm like, when
you say it like that, it sounds very gross, but like it's she's an adult.

(14:48:45):
-in -law.
She was her his son's ex -girlfriend fiance, whatever.
Okay?
Tell the dog.
really interesting to get those because they like flag the most like that I'm like, that'snot strictly speaking true, but I am not interested in arguing with you prison system.

(14:49:11):
Cause they send it to like the publisher and so for my indie stuff I get it cause I'm thepublisher.
It's very, the first time I got one I was like, why am I getting mail from prison?
Am I in trouble?
And I was like, oh no, we're just letting you know you're allowed to challenge it.
But this is what happened.
And I'm like, okay, I learned something today.

(14:49:33):
So how do they do that?
Do they confiscate the book or they confiscate the book that somebody has given aprisoner?
had to page through it because of this content.
So like, some prison guard had to page through the fucking books.
Like, oh, that brings me great joy, honestly.

(14:49:55):
on there, you know, band book in eight prisons.
Yeah.
You will have that instant New York time back seller thing.
Okay, so when you started the Wicked Villains, and to me, I just associate everything withyour career with fearlessness, of course.

(14:50:26):
And then, and we can go back to Wicked Villains.
Then I...
You immediately, as soon as you started getting popularity, as soon as you startedgrowing, growing, growing, you did something a lot of people have not done, had the

(14:50:46):
courage to do is you started putting what I call putting other people on.
You started the Kickstarters, giving opportunities to other authors, authors of color.
LGBTQIA authors who, and giving them space on your platform.

(14:51:08):
Why is that important to you?
I mean, I feel, and I recognize not everybody feels this way, and it's a point ofcontention with me that my coaches and therapists are like, Katie, this is not how people
operate, just chill.
And I'm like, but they should.
But like, I have accomplished my initial goals.

(14:51:28):
I did it way faster than I thought.
And even if I hadn't, like, I just, this industry sucks.
It sucks.
It's not fair to anyone who has any level of marginalization.
The more marginalizations you have, the worse it is.
And I just, it feels inherently so incredibly selfish to just use my platform only for mewhen I'm doing fine.

(14:51:50):
Like I'm benefiting, I have a position of privilege and it's allowed me to do, to takesome of these fearless steps and to swing really hard because you know, if I fail, it's
like, oh, well this queer white person failed, I guess that's, it's not going to be like,oh, well this.
you know, black person failed and therefore black people should not write this becausethat's how the industry thinks because they suck.

(14:52:12):
And so I did initial Kickstarter by myself and then I was like, I, you know, I wasapproached by Jenny Nordbach and Melody Carlisle at the time and they were like, Hey, we
want to do this anthology.
And I was like, well, what if we did it as a Kickstarter?
Like, what then?
And it just sort of spawned into this thing.
That's like, I really like.

(14:52:35):
being able to uplift other authors.
I really love being able to introduce my audience to authors and books that they mightlike.
Like, that they might not necessarily have picked up because of inherent bias or becausethat author is not getting the support that they should be from their publisher or because
they're an indie author and they're paying for all their support themselves or, you know,it's, it's our world fucking sucks.

(14:52:59):
And if I can make my corner of it a little more inclusive and like help people.
that's what I'm gonna do.
And I, when I kind of like knocked my goals out of the park in like 2021 ish, I likelooked around and was like, okay, I really like having like a guiding star to like shoot
for like as far as like another author whose career I admire.

(14:53:22):
And I really liked what Rick Raoordan did with Rick Raoordan Presents and where he waslike, hey, I'm fucking Percy Jackson's motherfucker.
Like I can do whatever I want.
And what he did is he worked with,
the imprint, which I think is his imprint, I still am not entirely certain how it works,but like to do presents and he landed his platform to authors so that they could tell

(14:53:42):
their own stories instead of being like, like a lot of popular authors get readers beinglike, write this character with this identity or whatever.
And it's like, but what if I gave you this author whose identity that is, and they wrotethat story and then I gave it to you, what then?
And so that's like, ultimately my goal, which I'm doing in like small ways now.

(14:54:02):
or like relatively small ways, but it, or it's like.
Romance gets really shitty advances if you're in traditional.
Like we tend to get significantly lower advances than any other genre, which is a podium Iwill not get on today.
But being like Kickstarter, like, hey, if we do really fair percentages, I think ourauthors in the last two years have averaged like 20 ,000.

(14:54:34):
just income that then they go and sell their book because like we don't retain rights tothat.
I have no desire to be a publisher on my own, but like we can give you a boost and thenhopefully give you a little bit of freedom to do, you know, what you would want to do.
And so it's, I don't know.
It's just, if you're familiar with Gallup Strengths Finders, I have consistency like islike my number 12 and it's just, it used to be called fairness.

(14:54:58):
And it's just like the inherent unfairness of the publishing industry insults me on apersonal level.
and if I can't fix the whole publishing industry I will continue to arm wrestle the partsof it I can fix.
Which, you know, is limited but not non -existent.

(14:55:27):
Right.

(14:56:02):
When I don't I don't want to do it as a Like I I don't know I try not to I don'tnecessarily like to be like here's this thing I'm doing because it feels very White savory
and that's not the position.
I would like to be in
right.
It's not performative because you could be in your position and then like step back andnot say anything, but you're consistently on every level putting your action behind your

(14:56:39):
words.
And that's appreciated.
but at the same time, you also are very talented.
So you can back up what you're saying with the work that you, it's like, it's a greatcombination at the same, it's a great combination and you're using it in a positive

(14:57:01):
impact.
And I don't want to be like, oh my God, let's let, because I know you shy away from anytype of like, it's you, right?
Because it's just inherently who you are.
And, but I just want to point out that, you know, we do appreciate it and we do, you know,we see you and, and people deserve to be, you know, acknowledged for that part.

(14:57:30):
What were your other, what were your top five strengths?
Cause I'm, I'm a big strength finder person.
So I had initially taken it in 2019 but like since then I've done a shit ton of coachingand I did therapy with like EMDR which actually like rewires your brain so I retook it
last year and it's like Activator's still number one forever and always like anybody who'sinteracted with me even a little bit.

(14:57:54):
It's like getting electrics input
futuristic significance and...
fuck.
Indelection, I think?
Something like that.
I know they're all up...
I should have it memorized at this point, but I do not.
I always mix up the numbers, but yeah, the significance was new, and that's...

(14:58:17):
but I also have like, maximizers like number six, and like, I just...
it's basically me being like, get out of my way, I'm gonna show you what to do with, like,my strings.
But also, you're not doing it fast enough, just...
was because I think my number one is communication, strategy, Achiever woo, winning othersover, which obviously.

(14:58:42):
Yeah, communication and woo, that's a combination right there.
That's powerhouse.
got to, Monie, you got to do it.
in a cult because I'm like, take this test, but it's legitimately, all of my friends havetaken it and it's allowed, and my husband, I made him take it and it's allowed me to learn
how to like communicate a little bit better with them.

(14:59:05):
Like my husband is number one strategic, number two self -assurance.
So like, you cannot tell that man shit.
Um.
And he's like, the lowest is like, I think 34 is individualization.
So he literally cannot conceive why people don't just do it his way, because his way isobviously the best.
Like he cannot comprehend.

(14:59:26):
And it was, oh, the amount of people, like self -assurance is like the least common one.
I have three or four people in my immediate life who have self -assurance in their topfive.
And I'm like, what is happening?
So it's, you know,
It's very interesting.
It's very frustrating when I'm like, no, but I'm right.

(14:59:47):
And they're like, no, you're not.
It's OK, though.
It's OK to be wrong.
And I'm like, no, but I am right this time.
Well, what's great about Strength Finders is that whatever your top thing is, the oppositeof that is your top pain point as well.
So being a communicator, if you don't communicate with me, I go off the wall.

(15:00:15):
Like depression, like whatever.
Y 'all know that Ima Simone is my best friend.
So she does, she's the opposite of me in a lot of ways.
So if she doesn't communicate with me, we have a problem.
Cause I'm gonna keep trying to communicate with her and she, and she's, she completelyshuts down.

(15:00:35):
So that is like, it is, and my husband is the same way.
I think his communication might be 36.
Yeah, the activator is has been historically incredibly frustrating working withtraditional because they move at the glacier pace and I'm like, I am 12 steps ahead.
Why are you ready?
You're not caught up.

(15:00:55):
Why can you not see especially like futuristic and maximizer?
I'm like, I can vividly see why this is a thing that's going to work.
But the data doesn't match that I'm like, fuck the data.
I know in my heart of hearts that this is true.
They don't like that.
But
But yeah, it was interesting because so Sourcebooks, my publisher that I love deeplycurrently, is I gave them print rights to wicked villains.

(15:01:27):
Which is interesting because they're having a lawyer read through it to make sure that themouse, you know, whatever, just super careful.
But I have covered veto rights for the first time ever with this.
And...
So it's been like, I'm like, I have this vision, I want to do this thing.
And they're like, well, nobody's doing that right now.
So there's no data.
Like the data supports this other thing.

(15:01:47):
And I'm like, no, I know.
But like, allow us to be on the cutting edge.
Allow us.
So yeah, and like, and like, that's kind of, I mean, Monster Clunches existed well beforeI ever did it, but they're kind of industry standard now.
And I...
don't think it's entirely arrogant to say that I have like a little bit of something to dowith that, like just a little bit.

(15:02:11):
And...
because I was like, I want that Katie Robert cover.
It's, it's, it surprised me so much because those books came out at the height of like thediscrete cover conversation.
And so I offered a discrete option in the first two, because I was like, certainly peoplewill buy that and print.
They didn't, they didn't.
And a lovely little college student, little, she, a whole ass adult, a whole ass adultcollege student actually like waved me down in public, like last summer, I think.

(15:02:41):
And she was holding the dragon's bride.
Like she had just been reading it in public because it's a conversational piece and that'smore powerful than people's shame about reading like sexy books in public.
And I think the traditional could learn something from that.
So.
So how did that play out when you pitched your fantasy series?

(15:03:09):
When you put Wicked Idol out there and you were like, this is what I'm thinking, Gods ofOlympus, let's talk about this.
What did they say?
How did that play out?
had coffee with my now editor at RWA in 2019 in New York.

(15:03:32):
Like I think that was the last one I went to before it imploded.
Yeah, and she's like, I'd love to work with you.
What do you what you got?
And I was like, man, I have this idea for Hades and Persephone because like I lookedaround at the market again and been like, it exists, but it hasn't been done in quite this
exact form.
And I think that
wicked villains people would jump to this pretty easily.

(15:03:54):
And like, I have an audience there, whatever.
And she's like, cool, done.
I mean, and so my agent called me on a while later and was like, they offered on this?
She's like, no other publisher would touch something like this right now because it wasall rom -coms, all rom -coms.
That's all anybody wanted.
Nobody wanted dark, sexy, anything.
And she's like, like I, my advance was $5 ,000.

(15:04:16):
It was nothing.
It was, she's like, you know, I guess we'll see.
Like, do you really want to do this?
And I was like, yeah, like, I am privileged that I write very fast naturally.
And so like, I can write three books and write them off, which is this insane thing tosay.
But like, I was like, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
And it's an experiment.
And then they ran with it and the audience responded really well to it.

(15:04:39):
And it just so happened that TikTok found wicked villains, like, right, like within fourmonths or
Yeah, like four to six months before Neon Gods came out.
And so like it was at the height that people were like, oh, what else is Katie Robertdone?
And they picked up that book and to this day it sells in print like about 2000 copies aweek.

(15:05:00):
Like not enough to be hit in lists, but every single week like clockwork it just sells.
And it's, it's, and I, I was burned very early in my career.
So I,
was like, I don't want to be friends with my editors.
I don't want like it has to be professional so I can tell them no.
But my editor is very much a yes and I'm like, what if I did this?

(15:05:24):
She's like, yes, and like, what if you did this and this?
Like, that's how the third book became a Minaj with three.
That's how the fifth book became a poly open poly not with four points of view in like,because I was like, what if Pandora and she's like, what if Pandora and Adonis and I was
like, yep, that's it.
And I recently was like, what if, you know, cause Hermes, no spoilers, but Hermes is thefinal book and it's a sapphic romance.

(15:05:52):
And I was like, but what if there was a third woman involved?
What if, what if this character was involved?
Like I realized that I'm writing book nine right now.
And so we're almost there, but like, what if, what if I just threw this curve ball andshe's like, that's amazing.
Yes.
Give it to me now.
So it's been really rewarding to work with someone who,
gets my vision and pushes me harder and also has the power within the company to supportit.

(15:06:18):
Which is like, cause you know, there's so many, like so many people that just want to tellyou no.
And thankfully she's high enough up that she can be like, no, but like, but, but yes, likelook at this, let's do it.
So yeah, it's just been, it's wild.
I cannot believe they're letting me write a 10 book series that we're almost done and thatthe sales just, you know, keep doing things.

(15:06:42):
It sh - could not work, but it did.
have the guys of Olympus, but it's not so rooted and stuck in the guys of Olympus.
You're playing around with Zeus, you're playing around with Hermes, who we saw in NeonGuys, which I think like,

(15:07:08):
when I read that book and I was like, okay, this chair scene, this public sex scene, I'mlike, we finna do that too.
Let me see, we finna.
It's so easy, like Sunday morning, the book that I was like, which is, I said, well, youknow, cause I always tell my author friends when they do something that is like,

(15:07:35):
fabulous.
I'm like, oh bitch, you gonna see this again.
We finished this.
I do the same thing!
Some of my favorite books I've ever written are because I like read a book and I was like,I have to I have to output something in conversation with this immediately.
Um, yeah.
to you Katie Robert if you want to accept it go you read that's the if you'll read nothingelse read that scene it either like Sunday morning cuz I told not even I was like listen

(15:08:03):
Katie ass is gonna see this shit again because look we can do this Like it was so it wasbecause my thing is okay, so I'm gonna go in I'm you know when I get excited I go to I go
to the side I go to the side so when I read that I was like oh my god
And nobody was like doing it like that, right?

(15:08:24):
And so Hades has her in this chair and it's like a throne, y 'all.
And he does this little, he has like all of these people in there.
It's like a rave.
I know everybody's reading at this point, but it's just delightful.
It's just so sinful and delightful.
So I just had to recreate.

(15:08:45):
I just loved it so much.
like It's so funny because that book is so The series as a whole so tame compared towicked villains At least initially like I start ramping it up in like book Six or so six
six book book six has puppy play.

(15:09:06):
I don't know.
I don't know what I'm doing I'm just writing books and stuff happens.
I'm texting Jenny Nord by being like I think I'm writing puppy play I
I don't know enough about this.
Please help." And she's like, you are.
Go do some research, please.
I'm like, okay.
Yeah, it's, there's just something about Hades and Persephone.
Like I, I think that book in particular really resonated with a lot of people because in alot of books, when you get Hades and Persephone, Persephone is kind of represented in a

(15:09:36):
very specific way.
That's like very sunshiny princess and like innocent and like virginal and
I was like, but Stephanie's always held the capacity to be the queen of the underworld.
Like she didn't change.
She always had that in her.
And so that's kind of the approach I took it with it.
And you know, by book three, most of the Greek mythology people who were mad at me droppedoff.

(15:10:02):
So I got lectured a lot in books one and two, specifically books one.
Like people were like, that's not how it is.
You did it wrong.
And I'm like, oh, they're gold read.
Go read some, like, classical texts if you'd like it to.
When like, mythology occupies a very similar space to folklore and fairy tales, and thatit's perpetually new because those core stories are so like, humanity resonates with it on

(15:10:35):
a particular level, which is why like, the descent to the underworld type myths, you findthem in a bunch of different cultures.
And so like, of course, putting our modern day spin in like, you know,
There are so many Hades and Persephone now and they're all very uniquely their own.
And it delights me because that's why I'm like, hey, you like this, like go read R .M.
Virtues, go read like Alicia Ray has one.

(15:10:57):
Like there's they're all over the place and they're all very different.
And it's like, but they still have that core component of the story that's really good andjust like, you know, scratches that itch.
And so, and then, so I coax them in and I was like, look, this is familiar.
You like this.
Oh, look.
Arison Psyche, you've heard this one before.
And then I was like, curveball, buckle up, you're in, you're invested.

(15:11:20):
Now it's my show.
I love a twist on Canon and I love a twist on tropes because I love when people get into abook and they're like, oh, this is enemies to lovers, but it's okay.
This is real enemies to lover.
He's actually really trying like that.

(15:11:40):
He really hates her.
She really hates like sometimes when in the tropes people don't go in hard.
And I think you do a great job of going in hard.
You do a good job of twisting tropes.
Twisting Canon and that is what makes writing new and fresh and I saw a post of yours onthreads and I wanted to talk to you because You know, I loved Roderick and and so you let

(15:12:09):
us know that you're not continuing with that series and
it like weekly.
I'm like, I'm so sorry.
I'm so creatively blocked with that series.
Like, I don't know what happened.
But it's like, every time I think about Cohen, my brain's like, get the fuck out of here.
And I'm like, I'm sorry.
I hope to come back to it someday.
At least try that one.

(15:12:30):
But if I write that one, then I have to write the rest.
It's just like, I set up a really impossible premise.
And I was very silly to be like, I'm going to write.
Seven books and they're all menages and they all happen on the same time and so it'soverlapping timelines and like it broke me It broke me by book two and I was like, oh no,

(15:12:51):
I've done a bad thing
had so many edits and I did so many edits for this.
I was like, look at this, this is great.
We're going in hard.
But I just thought you got consumed with the whole Gods of Olympus series.
And that took so much time, which it does when you're a hybrid author.

(15:13:13):
Yeah, it's also that like, I started Able in the pandemic and it was the first year when Istarted so many series, so many series.
And because I, the only place I could get even like a tiny bit of space for my family wasin my office.
So I just kept working instead of, you know, dealing with my emotions.

(15:13:33):
And then I crashed and burned pretty hard.
And so I had to like cut loose.
And that's why there haven't been more taboo books there.
you know, they're like, I started the scandalous scions, which is like O'Malley's, youknow, second generation.
And I will go back to that one because I'm kind of circling around from a different anglewith, uh, there's going to be Wicked Villains second gen or it's starting like the next

(15:14:01):
Kickstarter is the first of those books, but they have Romanovs in them, which Romanovsare from the O'Malley series.
And so it's all going to come full circle eventually, but.
Yeah, I just, I overreached and then, and then I got slapped in the face and I had to makesome tough decisions and part of that was creative and part of that, you know, was

(15:14:21):
financial.
Like I'd like to say otherwise, but I am the only person who may, like I'm the soleprovider of our family now.
So it has to be like, like that series was hard creatively and it just doesn't sell thatwell compared to anything else I've written.
So like,
It's like I could push through and burn myself out more, but it's not...
There's not even gonna be financial gain at the end of it.

(15:14:43):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, and you know, the Dark Olympus sells currently and so that's where we're at.

(15:15:04):
And at least for like, I kind of traded in chaos for like, I was like, I need to like, setsome boundaries for myself.
So I can't keep doing this.
And that's why I'm currently mostly trad.
But, you know, we'll see what happens in a couple years.
A lot could change.

(15:15:47):
No.
Oh good, that makes me happy because I feel like I am chaos when I try to teach things.
But yeah, I had been...
I'm a big nerd.

(15:16:08):
So I was already on Kickstarter as somebody backing Kickstarter projects.
Like I freaking love it.
It appeals like that early adapter in me that I'm like, oh, I got this before anybodyelse.
And they also have like crazy cool stuff.
And I noticed that there was not like romance authors exist on there.
and like do but like percentage wise and this is back in like 2019 ish 2020 I don't knowtimes a flat surface whenever I ran that first campaign I noticed that there weren't as

(15:16:40):
many romance authors compared to the amount of sci -fi fantasy authors I was seeing onthere and so I looked around oh it must have been 2020 I looked around I was like well
Wicked Villains is doing really well I don't have it in hardcovers why don't I run acampaign like for this established audience
because nobody was approaching me to do special editions of those books.
And so was like, fuck, I'll do it myself, fine.

(15:17:01):
And I did.
And it was a learning experience, like for a number of reasons, because like I said, I'mchaotic and I did not fully anticipate what I had bitten off.
But during that process, Kickstarter, the person, Orianna, who runs their comics and likepublishing like Fawcett,

(15:17:24):
had reached out to me and was like, listen, like romance is super underrepresented on thisplatform.
Like how do I appeal to romance people because we want them here.
Like we want them here.
And so I was like, let's do it.
And so it was a lot of just like, like I romance, especially indie romance tends to be onthe cutting edge of a lot of technology.

(15:17:46):
And so I don't know why we just kind of hopped right over Kickstarter.
It might just be because.
It didn't seem like a very welcoming space for our type of fiction at the time.
But since then, I've been seeing so many romance people on there and it's just like here,like I can't teach very well, but I will share all my information with us.
And I paired up with Jenny Nordback and Melody Carlisle.

(15:18:09):
And now it's just me and Jenny Nordback, but she's very organized in business and likespreadsheets.
We have so many spreadsheets.
And so it helped it be like, how do we make this manageable?
How do we like make it sustainable?
And then here's all this information to everybody because it's the amount of people we,well, not we specifically, but we as a community have brought to Kickstarter.

(15:18:31):
The amount of people that are like, I've never even tried Kickstarter, but now I'm onthere, is just like a boon to Kickstarter.
And so I think in July of this year, they're actually doing like a romance specific, likehighlighting romance projects, encouraging people to launch in July to be able to
spotlight them because they, they, they,
They're doing some cool stuff over there, but yeah, I was like, fucking Amazon sucks.

(15:18:54):
Publishers aren't particularly great.
All these, every time we turn around, some vendor is trying to pull some shenanigans withterms and services to fuck us over.
Like why not with Kickstarter, they take like approximately 8%.
That's lower than any other retailer.
Why not?
And yeah, so like why not launch some stuff there?

(15:19:15):
Why not use it to try to, and it's so scalable.
Like you don't have to run a million dollar campaign or 40 million like Brian Sanders,Brandon Sanderson.
You can run one, it's like a thousand dollars.
Like it's so, so feasible and.

(15:19:53):
My cowards, they're great Danes.
I have two great Danes and they are so scared of everything and someone knocked on mydoor.
And so they're like, um, yeah, Kickstarter is like, it's nice because it's really low riskto some degree.
Like as far as because like you only put in the money.

(15:20:14):
Like I would not, sorry.
I would not recommend sinking a shit ton of money if you're not really sure how peoplerespond, just because that's not financially viable really.
But if, say you have a series and maybe do an early release and special paperbacks ofthe...

(15:20:36):
Or do paperback really, or whatever, some special edition something with the ones that areout and then release the next book on Kickstarter as part of that campaign like that.
or work with other authors, that shared world, I've seen that a lot, and that is sobeneficial and does cross -pollination with audiences.

(15:20:58):
And then if you get some authors, that's kind of how we structure ours is we want severalauthors with pretty large platforms, and then we want authors who could benefit from those
platforms, whose readers, the big authors' readers maybe haven't found them, but here's anopportunity to in a way that's like,

(15:21:18):
the barrier to entry is really low.
It's a shared world to some degree or theme or whatever.
So it's like, you know, I know I like Katie Roberts, blah, blah, blah.
So maybe I'll write like this other books, blah, blah, blah.
And like, and then they have them all.
And so there's no reason for them not to read it and then go check out the other books,hopefully.
Yeah, it's your shared world thing is very, I think I've read all of the books across thatworld and everything.

(15:21:44):
And it's so innovative.
And I love like the different fantasy aspects of it, the mix up, like it's very spicy.
Everybody brings something different and fresh to the...
to the world that you share.
So what, and I'm asking for me, what are you looking for for people who you wanna, you andJenny are looking for in authors who might wanna do this with you?

(15:22:15):
So the first year had started as an anthology and then my activator got a hold of it and Iwasn't even one of the organizers.
I was like, what if we did this?
Like, hello, hello, hello.
I'd like to be involved in like, what if we did this thing?
And then season two, we kind of threw spaghetti at the wall.
Like, I'm not gonna lie.
It was kind of like, oh, no, let's just figure it out.
But with season three, we were a lot more, we're learning to be more intentional becauseit doesn't benefit authors.

(15:22:43):
to write something that's outside their wheelhouse and then like if people like it, thenthey go read their backlist and are disappointed or the author's uncomfortable and maybe
not necessarily hitting the notes we'd like to, which is it's a lose -lose.
So going forward, it's kind of like with this one, we sort of returned to dark romance.

(15:23:06):
Aaron Virtues is part of it, he did paranormal, but it's still totally very like identicalto the others.
And so it's kind of like, what do you already write?
What does it match the specs that we're putting together?
I can only control my audience.
So I'm like, what would my audience like?
What could we potentially do?

(15:23:26):
Or I can't control them, but I know what they like, I guess.
But the other thing that we're learning is that personality plays a part.
And so there are some authors who are really innovative and amazing.
And I f -
freaking obsessed with, but they don't necessarily are not necessarily a good fit for agroup project where they have to meet or where the procedure that we go through as far as

(15:23:52):
like we do more like traditional like dev edits, copy edits, proof continuity, likethere's a lot, it's a lot heavier than some of the authors do, which is we're learning, we
have to manage expectations all around.
And so I don't know what it's going to look like next time.
I'm not entirely certain.
I've gotten some advice on like, hey, like, you know, just because an author is amazingand we love them doesn't mean that they're a good fit for the project.

(15:24:19):
So like we have to, I don't, I, so.
Hmm.
Yeah, or it's just like, hey, this is how I do my stuff and like, I don't want to do ityour way.

(15:24:41):
And that's totally legitimate.
That is 100 % legitimate.
But it's I am a control freak, which is not a good fit for people who want to be moreindependent.
So that's what I'm learning to.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(15:25:17):
Yeah, I'm so sorry.
There is somebody on my front porch.
Oh, it's a gutter guy.
Okay.
Is it okay?
Can I run and shut the door and lock the dogs somewhere?
I don't know.
Is this an hour?
If we only have nine minutes left, I can finish out.
I'm so sorry.
I was like, who's knocking on my door?

(15:25:37):
Why are the dogs freaking out?
My husband didn't tell me they were coming right now.
So no.
No, they're fine.
They can hold for like 10 minutes.
They did not.
He didn't plan that well.

(15:26:00):
Oh, it's Aurora out of Wicked Villains.
It's 100 % Aurora.
I...
Partly just because I love my little shit starter, like I'll light stuff on fire eventhough I'm a sweet baby angel.
And part of it because it was either right before or right after Desperate Measures cameout.
Somebody had asked me on Twitter and I'm like, oh my god, when are you gonna write male-male?

(15:26:21):
And I was like, I like women.
So I'm probably gonna write female -female before male -male because like...
Why wouldn't I write the things I enjoy?
And I love the monoges with dudes and stuff, and whatever, but like...
And then there's like the fetishy, it, and whatever.
But the responses to that were so aggressive and gross that I was like, if I'm abiologist, that doesn't mean I want to study bugs.

(15:26:51):
And I'm like, why are you comparing sapphic fiction to bugs?
And so me being a spiteful asshole, I was like, okay, I hear you and I hear that you don'twant this.
So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna seed this character all the way through.
make you love this character and then she's gonna be in a sapphic romance.
Which is also what I'm doing with Hermes, I'm not apologizing.
So like, I'm gonna make you want this and you're going to thank me for it afterwards.

(15:27:14):
And you know, did I win over some people?
Yes.
Yeah.
appears in, we see her and she's a badass from the beginning.
And I think people are salivating for that book.
Like, you know what you're doing, Katie Robert, with the hair in your thing.
And it's funny.
It's really interesting to see now that we're like six books have released, but I'mwriting several books ahead of like release because traditional takes forever.

(15:27:40):
And it's really interesting to see how people's responses to Hermes have changed as aseries or changed, grown or like shifted as the series has continued because I am now
getting a bunch of like, oh my gosh, I guess Hermes have Dylan.
And I'm like, that's the wrong question.
Like they're all villains.
They suck.
Like they all suck.
Like they're all power, like nepo babies who don't know what they're doing and are notgood at their jobs.

(15:28:07):
Like Hermes, Hermes has her reasons and I think they're legitimate reasons.
Are her methods suspect?
Maybe.
But you know, I'm not writing reality.
Like you're gonna, you're gonna love her at the end of it.
Probably.
So yeah.
But yeah, I, she's my favorite of dark Olympus.
Like she has been from the moment she showed up on the page.
I actually,

(15:28:27):
The series was originally nine books.
And then I was like, no, Hermes needs a book like right now.
Like she needs a book and it has to be the end book.
And it, I didn't know exactly the form her story would take or like the structure of it orlike how, who would be her love interest until later.
But it just kind of proves that my subconsciousness is smarter than I am because it's veryperfect and like just a great end note to the series and like everything.

(15:28:54):
And it just.
it makes so much sense in the greater structure.
So I was just like, oh, I'm pretty smart.
I can't take credit for it, but my brain figured it out.
love that.
I love that for us as readers.
So much to look forward to.
So what have you been reading and loving lately?

(15:29:18):
And I already know, but you tell everybody because I was on the Elizabeth Stevens train.
I, I, like, I, somebody shared her cover from Dark City Omega before it came out.
And I was like, that cover is phenomenal.
I do need that in my life.
And then I read it and I was like, oh my God, like this book was written for, like, it'sjust so giddy and just like perfect and like sexy and hilarious and, and so I, and I don't

(15:29:50):
really fuck with alien romances.
Like for whatever reason, my brain just does not.
Right.
for the most part.
No, I read six of those books in a row, like of her her sci fi books.
And then she's very kind and generous and surprised sent me Shadowlands Omega, which comesout in three weeks and it is.

(15:30:10):
It's so it's a chunky boy.
And I'm like, I'm reading I'm like, okay, cool, cool.
I like this.
Yes.
And then it's like, um, shit, I can't remember his name because I'm bad of names like.
big daddy berserker, he's a good boy.
And I was like, he's a what now?
He's a what now?
And then it's like, oh no, she's dominant in the bedroom.

(15:30:32):
And she's like, you're gonna crawl for this.
And he does.
And he's like, if I say please, and he's like, please, can I do the thing and let's go.
And it's just, I've never read this specific dynamic before.
And it's so delightful and just like, and he's like,
And but he's also like he's submissive, but also like so much not.

(15:30:54):
He's like, yeah, I could murder your whole family and you'd still end up loving me.
And she's like, the fuck I would.
And he's like, and she's like, shit, I think he might be right.
And it's just like so, so.
I think I discovered her because I got into the sci -fi because under my other pen name, Iwrite sci -fi and I was like, where are the black girls in space?
And I know Theodore had some, but I was just scrambling around and then I saw ElizabethStevens and then the Zimri mates is what got me when she, I was like, oh, oh, everybody

(15:31:26):
needs to read this.
but with this I can't remember if it's book three or four like the snake boy That he'sjust the biggest dummy in existence.
He's like, nah, I don't like her that much and his like other half is just like activelyfighting Oh my god, I ate that with a spoon she's phenomenal and Everyone should pre

(15:31:47):
-order Shadowlands Omega or order it whenever this comes out but the other one that I readthey like we're talking about fearless authors is
Amber V.
Nicole.
Mm -hmm.
what the, I don't, the second book is called Throne of Broken Gods and I just read it andit's like fantasy -ish but like centered in a world that's similar enough to ours to like

(15:32:10):
be, it's not like a big jump, but like the swing she takes in those books is so utterlyfearless.
It's a, the female main character is the morally gray one who will, she murders so manypeople and I love her so much and he's like,
like literally called the world ender because he's like destroyed worlds.
He's basically a god and like he just loves her so much.

(15:32:35):
And I it it's one of those long I think it's gonna be like five books and we're only intotwo books and I'm like, I know you're going to hurt me and I know I'm going to thank you
for it.
But like I just I like seeking out authors who take wild or not wild swings but fearlessswings because it makes me want to go harder and like I find that very inspiring and like.

(15:32:58):
Amber v.
Nicole's gonna do great things.
Like she's already doing great things.
Yes, the book of Azrael.
Yes!
stay less because I am in my dark fantasy era and I love it here.
Diana is the most like the fuck what and like the first book follows like you know you'relike okay like I'm familiar with like these beats I know how this works I understand

(15:33:20):
what's going on and then it's like just kidding bitch and um and then like the wholesecond book it's like she honors the choices she makes in the first book which not all
authors do like it's very scary to like make a choice and then not walk it back.
Like to be like, no, I'm committing to the consequences of this action.
And like, she does.

(15:33:42):
And it's, I just, again, I'm sending screenshots to my friends, like just read it.
So, cannot recommend enough.
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
So what have, what do we have forward to you conferences and where can we find you on theinterwebs and what are you releasing?

(15:34:06):
You just dropped a book.
You just dropped a sapphic romance.
Oh no, April.
It'll be out in a couple weeks.
Yeah.
It's the succubus's prize.
It's for all my religious trauma babes.
It hurt me and now it's going to hurt you and you're welcome.

(15:34:26):
And then it's like a sapphic spring.
My second pirate book is sapphic and comes out in May and it's a selkie and a vampire.
and the Selfies lost her skin and that vampire is gonna murder her way to everything.
So it's great.
And as far as, I don't think I have any conferences on the books currently, but I will beat Ripped Bodice in Carver City.

(15:34:53):
No, that's not, that is not what that place is called.
Whatever, outside of LA, Culver, yeah.
I'm like, I'm going to Wicked Villains.
No, I'll be down there in May for a signing and then I will be doing a,
book tour in August for the next Dark Olympus book.
And I think those dates and places will be announced relatively soon.

(15:35:19):
Oh, oh goodness, I am, I'm on threads too much.
I am, I'm not gonna lie.
I am on TikTok and Instagram, not as prominently as I used to be.
And then I have a newsletter that if you don't wanna miss things, if I ever poof off theinternet, that's where to find me.

(15:35:39):
She has a great newsletter, very informative.
I love your newspaper -like format.
Yes, yeah.
So, but, because I think, I was like, I need to, I need to like be more serious in mynewsletter.
Like, Katie, she's doing like, this is very good.

(15:36:02):
It's just shitposting.
It's just me being like, here's vibes.
Here's what I'm doing.
Bye!
Like it's, I, yeah.
It, yeah.
say your book tour, I follow you a lot because you're so busy.
We don't talk as much as we used to.
But your book tour, my goodness, it was like a rock concert.

(15:36:30):
Were you scared?
Like all those people?
Because you're little.
And it was a lot of people, Katie.
we...
The first one I was pretty nervous about, but now I've kind of got the rhythm down, soit's not as bad.
I am not super scared of public speaking as long as, again, I can just shitpost with mymouth.

(15:36:51):
Just like, nah!
If I have to be professional, that's when I freeze up, but my readers are the best, andthey're super happy to ask questions and give me some kind of energy and response.
Yeah, it's a lot of people, but like I stamp sign now.
So like it's, we get the connection in the Q and a, and then I moved through people reallyquickly, which is good.

(15:37:14):
Cause I'm bad at small talk.
Like I am, it's not my strength.
I am so awkward.
It's, it's the neurodivergency and so, but then people can lead within like, I think I gotthrough 400 people in like an hour and a half, two hours.
So like, you know, you're not going to be waiting all night to like take your books homeand read them.
Yeah, so much fun.

(15:37:35):
So Culver City, that's going to be fantastic.
Come down here to the South, don't be scared.
I, you know, listen, I am talking, we're, I think we're gonna do some, probably in thewinter though, cause it's hot in the summer.
I went to Texas and I was like, nah, I can't do this anymore.

(15:37:58):
yeah, because we're about to like we got about two more weeks of pleasant weather.
And then you're going to be able to see the devil walking down the street.
I promise you.
It's going to be so hot.
So you're not going to steamy lit because I was hoping that you'd be as steamy lit thisyear.
No, I will, I think I'm gonna be a sponsor of something, but I will not be attending.

(15:38:25):
But I've also learned the hard way that, because I did a Polycon last year, I think, Idon't know, recently.
And it was overwhelming.
It was really overwhelming.
And I wasn't used to, like, because I attended in years past and she's like, you know, youget people and it's like fine, but I could chat with like the people.

(15:38:46):
I'm there for, which is the other authors.
And this one, I was not prepared, because I kind of hit that wave during the pandemic wheneveryone is at home.
And so I was not prepared.
We went through it, like 1 ,000 people over three signings.
And then I couldn't, it sounds like complaining, it's not complaining per se, it's justI'm an introvert.

(15:39:09):
And so I like even walking, I kept walking myself out of my room because I'm an idiot.
And every time I go down to the lobby to get new keys, somebody be like, Katie Robert.
I'm like, I'm in my sweatpants.
I can't talk to you right now.
I'm so sorry.
I am overstimulated.
So it wasn't, I think in the future for events and stuff, I'll stick to stuff like romanceauthor mastermind or like the craft events where it's like a little less reader centric.

(15:39:35):
Yeah.
Which, you know, it's a.
be, you know, body surfing, body waving through the people.
Cause I'm a extra, extra, extra.
That is like your, like that is your, I'm very high relator.
And so I have a relator in my top 10, which is like people and I, like I like my peopleand my people are pretty finite.

(15:39:58):
You have to know what your limits are.
But we are so happy you were able to come and chat with us.
And this has been fantastic.
Yes, thank you so much for having me.
This was, it's always a delight to chat with you.
You
All right, I'm gonna go wrestle with my dogs, I guess.

(15:40:19):
Bye.
Bye!