Nana Malone

You definitely don't want to miss this episode. We have an amazing conversation with Wall Street Journal & USA Today Bestselling author Nana Malone. We fangirl over her books and amazing covers where she is sometimes featured as one of her cover models. Come hear all the tea.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Hi and welcome to the author spotlight with Kenya Gorey Bell and myself, Moni Boyce.
Today we have in the studio with us, Nana Malone, Wall Street, USA Today, bestsellingauthor.
Woo!
YAY!
Thank you guys for having me.
Yes, thank you so much for being here.
Will you share a little bit about yourself with us?

(00:22):
Yeah, no, I've been published since 2010.
So I've been in this romance game a little, for a little while.
141 titles, I guess now, would take over.
And I write sexy feel good romance across many, many genres.
I've written it all.

(00:42):
So I've written rom-com and sports romance and billionaires and...
Yeah, I mean, I don't really do small town or like super duper dark, although some peopleare calling take over a dark romance.
I'm like, he barely killed anyone.
I don't know what his problem is.
He didn't kill him, he just maimed him.

(01:03):
God, I just, what's the problem?
Yeah, so yeah, obviously I write a lot.
I've always got characters in my head.
And for anyone who sees my name, Nana from Ghana, I am actually from Ghana, and a lot ofmy heroines tend to be from Ghana as well.
And that is it.

(01:25):
In terms of introduction, also I'm the creator of the Brandable Challenge and Audio andColor grant program.
Now that's it.
I keep, like, I'm like, oh, I've done other things.
we love it.
We want you to share all your alcholades.
You should be so like proud and just like of everything that you've accomplished.

(01:45):
I mean, especially like you said, as a black woman in this industry.
So, yes, we want to give you your flowers now because you've been amazing and done so manyamazing things.
Thank you.
It's easy to forget some of the things along the way, though.
You're like, oh, yeah, I guess we did.
Hahaha!
Because I always say the great the great Nana Malone but then I said the great then I messup your name because I Was talking to our friend Sierra Simone and she kept saying I kept

(02:11):
saying cuz I'm so southern I kept saying Nana and she said she kept like she wasn't tryingto correct him She was like gently correcting me is Nana and I was like
Yeah.
I mean, I say, I just always say like when I usually, if I'm doing a live or something, Iremind everyone, I'm like Nana from Ghana, I'm your Ghanaian book bestie.

(02:31):
So that like, cause once you like get Nana from Ghana in your head, I will have people sayit to my face, who like Nana from Ghana.
And I'm like, yes.
And then like, you just like build that.
that.
Like last night I kept saying, Nana, it's Nana, not Nana.
If you just, if you, if you, can I, I'll just send you a Ghanaian flag and then you'll belike, Ghana, got it.

(02:53):
It's right there.
It won't work.
Listen, my Southern isms are so ingrained.
But I'm so glad you're here because I always look to you as like the guide for like mycareer because you are unstoppable.

(03:14):
Your books are phenomenal.
Like you have, like they say, no skips.
You are just fabulous.
skips.
You are just fabulous to me.
Like you are hashtag goals for me.
And I think a lot of other people, and I just wanna know, like, we'll talk about thebooks, but just drop gems about things that you have learned navigating this business as a

(03:44):
woman and as a black woman, that you can impart to readers.
And because I think what you've done successfully
crosses romance and goes more into like just regular careers and everything else.
Just how you have moved in this industry and remain so successful.

(04:05):
Oh, well, first of all, thank you.
So many skips.
You just don't, I tend to not live on social media.
So you just don't see my skips.
But like the number of times, I mean, like call my kid.
Tina will tell you, she's like, she had a skip yesterday because she said this to me andthat was really out of pocket.
And I'll be like, and then I have to go up there and be like, I'm sorry, mommy fucked up.

(04:27):
But yeah, I mean, from the business perspective, I mean, I was, I was in corporate for along time running large scale technology teams.
And so, I mean, I think the number one thing that I, and for those of you who are readersand don't know authors, if you've ever taken Gallup strengths, that's a huge thing in
like, especially the romance industry right now, we're always like, what are your topfive?

(04:48):
Number one for me is the cheaper.
So that probably, I have 141 books, so that shouldn't surprise anyone.
But one of my top strengths is learner.
And I think that even if people have low learner,
The idea is to especially in an industry that changes so fast at the drop of a hat isAlways be willing to learn and not just like always taking courses because I do take a

(05:14):
course Um all the time.
I'm a course for I said it Um, I will buy will buy them all I do I don't know what I havecourses I haven't even cracked open but I bought them.
I just bought the door.
I just bought the adores Taylor's blurb course
I don't know when I'm gonna have time to look at it and PS if I need help on a blubber, Ijust call her.
But that's not the point.

(05:35):
The point is I bought the class.
But like, but outside of that, like be willing to be wrong.
The number of times that like I'll do something and someone will be like, ah, and I'mlike, fuck, is that wrong?
PS, I curse a lot, so sorry for the listeners.
But like, I'm always like, like I always the first question I ask myself, was I wrong?

(05:58):
Sometimes the answer is yes.
Mm-hmm.
is I'm pretty fast and I can fix it quickly.
Usually the answer is yes, you are wrong.
Almost always because there's something to be learned.
And I think with every book, I learned something about myself or I changed something.
And then, and there are times when I've been like, I don't need to do all that.
And every time, and the problem is you can't see it in the moment, but then like three,four years later, you're like, that was my bad.

(06:27):
Yeah.
hahaha
That was me.
And like, an example of it is, I had submitted a book to a publisher and this was at theheight of New Adult.
So like 2013, 2014.
And the publisher was like, oh, we actually, we really love the book, but we want you tochange the entire thing to first person.

(06:47):
And at the time I wrote third person.
Hehehe
And for new adults, especially in that genre, like the thing was, because everyone wascoming from YA, which had made the shift from third to first, like in the early, the
decade earlier.
And so I was like, I was like, no, I was, and I just looked at them and I was like, no,thanks.

(07:10):
And in the end, that book was actually super successful the way I had done it.
So we were both right and we were both wrong.
But what would have served me better if I had just learned how to do it then, because I dohave books that I was just carrying on doing my own thing.
And third person that I would have been served better and seeing the market trend towardsthat.

(07:33):
Now, you can still get away with things that are still you, right?
So for me, I don't write first person first.
I'm just like, that doesn't work with my brand of storytelling because I have a lot ofsuspense.
So it doesn't really work with my brand of storytelling.
I need people to actually be like surprised about things that happen.
Like it just doesn't work for me.

(07:53):
And so I write first person pass and that takes the thing that I do well in terms ofpacing and how I tell a story but it also serves the market and going, well look but now
it's funny because a lot of people are going back to third and I'm like, I told you peoplethe way I love to be right.
So, but like be willing to be wrong.

(08:13):
because you don't learn anything that way.
You don't grow, you don't grow as a writer, you don't grow as a person.
I always tell my teenager, like, I was like, you can't learn with a full cup.
And so when she's talking to me about something, she goes, oh, but this and this and thisand that, I'm like, is your cup full?
If your cup is full, we can table this conversation till you pour something out of it.
And it's usually assumptions that you think you know about things, because you don't know.

(08:36):
I've been in this game 15 years, 15, 16 years now.
I don't know anything.
Every time I start a book, I'm like, how does one even write?
It's
But like, because you can go on with all the confidence and like bravado, but that ishubris.
You don't know anything.
Assume your own stupidity and learn as you're going and be like, oh, actually I did learnthis thing.

(08:57):
And there's usually like a nugget somewhere that someone said about one thing that you'relike, oh, if I really build the character like this, well, maybe I, and I always look at
things like, well, you know, that's not my current method, but sure, I'll try it once.
And things that I don't do are things that just haven't worked for me yet.
So there are things that I've learned about myself and my process and I'm like, no, I doit like this.

(09:18):
Like I had a very good friend who was like, oh my God, I cannot live without my alpha andmy beta readers.
And I was like, I just really can't write by committee.
You know, but like I have a.
you do then?
What do you what do you do then you just write and then like okay I'm down I'm alonebitch.

(09:39):
No, I mean, look, I write and then I call Sierra Simone and I'm like, I don't know whatI'm doing.
And then like I rolled around on the floor for like three days and I cry.
And then like my brain is like, you have a problem here.
And it's almost always the pacing because I can feel that in my bones.
But like, I don't use alpha or beta readers just because I just personally don't, ithasn't worked for me.

(10:04):
But you know, I had a great lesson from Sky Warren on Takeover.
Um, and she was like, get some beta readers, but ask them specific questions, likespecifically, and then she sat me down and gave me a list of questions to ask.
And so I tried a beta reader that time and it did work better.
And like, it also gave me confidence cause I, I covered my basis and there was like onething that she was like, I was confused about this and that was an easy fix and I was

(10:30):
like, gotcha.
And I could go in and fix it.
But like, I wasn't irritated with the process because
I was asking the wrong questions before from a beta reader because I was getting betas whowere just like, no, this is great, I love it.
And I'm like, that doesn't tell me anything.
Or like we're getting people who aren't writers or who don't think with an editor'smindset.

(10:52):
They just don't, because that's not their job.
And that's, you know, a lot of readers, I love my readers and my readers are fantastic.
But sometimes readers will be like, oh, I would have done it like this.
And I'm like, great, then write a book.
You sound like you're a writer.
Because that's not the purpose of a beta or alpha reader, right?
Yeah.
They're meant to tell you if there are gaps or holes or confusion, at least how I look atthem, right?
Some people need a confidence boost.

(11:13):
Some people are like, I just need someone to tell me it's great.
That's great, but maybe don't pay someone for that.
But like, I personally, I'm like, since I know that this experience was good and I can usethem more in the future, depending on like the list of questions I have, the right
questions.
But like, I have an editor that I trust with my life.
She's done 70 books of mine and...

(11:34):
Even like I wrote acquisition book two in this trilogy, take over trilogy, the Kings ofthe Orgrim.
And I acquisition, she was like, she was no, I loved it.
However, the first 45 pages, what the hell?
You know, and she was like, she's like at page 46, you start cooking with grease.
She's like, I don't know what happened, but it's too long.

(11:56):
It's too whiny.
It's too something, fix this.
And...
I mean, she gave me more notes than that.
Angie, if you're listening, I did take, you saw, I took the note.
But like, I knew, when I read it and I was looking through the actual four first 45, I waslike, oh, oh.
That's what she meant.

(12:16):
And I could just take the note, because I was willing to be wrong.
Because if I've gone and I know what I'm talking about, that's a full cup and you can'tever get anything poured into it.
So like, that's really my only advice, be willing to be wrong and accept that you'rewrong.
Like I walked in like, I don't know what the hell I'm doing, but maybe I have enoughexperience to go, we'll figure something out.

(12:37):
And I always even learn even more in those experiences.
And I'm like, hey, it worked out and I learned something.
And what I was doing was the wrong thing.
Cool, cool, now I know not to do that again.
But sometimes I have to learn lessons over and over and over again.
I've done that.
Don't do that for anyone who wants to be a writer.
Don't learn the lesson the first time, it'll be easier.

(12:59):
But yeah, be willing to be wrong, but I think that that's a great lesson for life.
Like you see it a lot online, people are just like, I'm right about this.
And I'm like, no, you're not.
Because you're like, you're trying to have a non nuanced conversation on the internet withpeople and like you're arguing with strangers who are sort of, and so it's like, well,
don't do that.
Like, because you're not going to have a nuanced conversation.
And I find that a lot of that is like, people are just like, wanting to be like, ah, andI'm like, well, that's nice, but I could be writing.

(13:25):
So
validation and they want to be right.
But I think.
and you're not going to be.
No one is like, you're just, you're never gonna be proven right ever by having an argumentwith a stranger.
And you said, you tell your teenager, which this impressed upon me, you said about beingwilling to be wrong, but knowing when your cup is overflowing or too full to manage.

(13:48):
And I think so many times as writers and as women, we are just like, I've talked to threepeople this week who've said, I'm overwhelmed, right?
So what do you do when that happens?
I was over mom last weekend and cried my eyes out.
I'd like, everything was fine.
Everything was cool.
And then I got like a random weird note from my publisher like about something that wasgoing on.

(14:11):
And I was like, ah!
And I just, I was angry crying, but that really, angry crying is usually over mom crying.
But I mean, I'd stack the deck because I hadn't edit.
I hadn't expected that came in on top of everything else.
And so it's like, you can...
You really have to know your limit and be very attuned to your body and very attuned towhat you're doing.

(14:32):
I mean, and also do the self-care things, exercise, eat properly, go to bed.
Those are standards that everyone's like, yeah, yeah.
I'm like, no, but they actually affect how much you're able to handle what you're able todo.
After going through burnout a couple years ago and like still coming out the other side ofthat, the self-care part, I try to tell people now like, do it because I was that person

(14:57):
that wasn't like giving myself enough sleep.
And I suffered.
That, I mean, that is a big thing.
I did it this past week.
It was not ideal, but I had to turn in a book.
I had to do edits on another book.
And then I had like a quick novella that was due that because other things have piled up,I hadn't had time to do it.
Now I'm a former project manager.

(15:17):
And so I don't miss dates.
And so I was up till 2, 3 a.m.
for three or four days in a row.
And then I was wondering why I was falling asleep at the wheel the other day.
And I was like, oh, that was probably okay.
Exactly.
And so you just, you have to, you have to have a system of checks and balances.
And you have to, my daughter is a student athlete and one of the, I'm always sending herlike motivational things.

(15:40):
And, you know, one of them that like, I think resonated with me.
I mean, I sent it to her, but you know, teenagers, they treat you like a man who doesn'tlike you.
You know, you text them and they just go, hey, four hours later after they saw, four hoursafter they saw the checks.
Anyway, so I sent it to her and she just was like, cool.
That's it.
But it did just be very interesting.

(16:01):
Like, you know, when an athlete like is on the court or whatever and does something wrong,it's important to have a reset routine because like we all start the year off with like,
you know, like I set goals, but like people are like, I said my resolutions and da da.
And then like the moment something goes wrong, we're like, ah, that's out the window.
But it's like, if you just can reset yourself.
And it's like when we were like, I'm gonna self-cam and I drink all this water, I'm gonnado this and I'm gonna do that.

(16:23):
Like, have I had my water today?
The answer is no, I have not.
Cause I had a call and then I had another call and then another call.
And so I didn't do those things, but as soon as I'm done, I'm just gonna take 10 minutes,do some deep breathing, reset, reframe my mind.
The one thing I did do this morning is I did write.
So that was already bonus points for me.
But I'm going to do a quick 10 minute, I'm restarting my day from now.

(16:48):
What's the thing I was supposed to do?
Do it, get the water, drink the water, eat something else.
I nibbled on a quick piece of toast, but I was like,
Go get the smoothie, go do the thing, go do the bit, go take a quick walk, come back, sitdown, look at your list of things to do today and then attack it from there.
Cause I have done some words today.

(17:09):
So, but have the reset routine, I think is really important.
Cause last week's and stuff happened, like I said, with my publisher.
And I just, my day had started out great, fantastic.
I was on cloud nine.
I was like, man, you can't touch me today.
Yeah
I worked out, I was having a great day.
And then this one little thing, this one little thing happened that like sent me into likea death spiral for two days.

(17:35):
And I was like, oh, I wasn't fine.
Okay, all right, I wasn't fine.
And so like, I've just been like really trying to focus on the breathing, like it's allsorted out now, but it's like, oh my God, I wasn't like, if I had looked properly on
Thursday night, you know, I would have been like, oh, maybe I'm not fine.
And I wasn't, because I had to turn something in on Thursday, which I did, and I had toturn something else in on Monday, which I did.

(17:59):
And, but like, I had too much on the plate.
I wasn't fine.
I should have just been like, one of y'all is getting this late.
I mean, or four weeks ago, set myself up for a healthier interaction.
But that's, you know, past Nana was writing checks that future Nana was not ready to cash.
So, but we have to, you have to pay attention to your body.

(18:20):
You have to pay attention to your brain.
And sometimes you're bringing it, your body's just like, no, we're just gonna sleep now.
And it does.
And you're like, unscheduled nap.
hahahaha
what happens.
after, like I just had a really, and I was like in every day since, because I already,everybody already know, do not call me before 10 a.m.

(18:41):
But I've been actually sleeping till 11.
My body was just like, I get up, you know, I do the mom thing.
I talk about being a mom like it's an offshoot, like it's just a hobby.
So I get up, get the kids ready, get them on the bus, and baby I get back in this bed forlike three or four hours.
Hehehehe
And that's the best sleep.

(19:03):
That's the best sleep.
Listen, my husband be fighting for his life in the sheets.
OK, that's a whole nother.
Yeah, nightmares, the whole thing, you know, ex-soldier.
So I can't sleep at night, but he sleeps better when I'm in the bed with him.
So when I go to bed in the morning, that's like my good sleep.
That's my good sleep.

(19:23):
So nobody can call me.
Actually, I got up to day at 11.
Don't don't talk that.
good that you know that.
One of the things people will ask me about, yeah, people will ask me about projectmanagement for writers, and I was like, well, you pick your own schedule.
What works for you?
I can come up here and be like, wake up every morning, first thing, like 5.30, writewords, exercise.

(19:49):
I can tell you all that, because that's supposed to be my ideal routine, but if youdon't...
mentally get going till 11 o'clock or whatever, then that's, that's when you get up.
That's when you can have your good moments.
That's when you like, you have to work it according to what your schedule is.
And I think that a lot of those kinds of things like the project manager, or what's your,what's the best like process or whatever, the best is what works for you.

(20:13):
People get really annoyed when I say that, because they're like, I just want an answer.
And I was like, well, what works for you?
That's the answer.
People get really mad.
They want like a...
the magic we want the magic Nana routine the magic Nana sauce
have a magic bullet, but no one's gonna like it.
The magic bullet is all right.

(20:34):
Y'all are on the podcast.
So I'm gonna tell you, there is no magic.
I love
I'm getting closer!
But like we are all looking for a magic bullet short, short cut.
I mean, and it's like, it's funny.
Cause there's all the conversation around like AI and whatever.
And I was like, guys, listen, it's not there.
You can't, it can't actually do that because you still have to read it and write it.

(20:59):
Like, I don't know what to tell you, but it's not there.
So like, these are like dumb conversations that we're having focused on writing.
to me.
It's so the whole conversation around all of that is so bizarre.
Or like, I'm just, I'm like, I'm like, guys, it can't actually, but they're like, it'sgetting so good.
I'm like, well, will screaming into the ether fix it?
No?
Okay.
Then work your, find a way around it or like find a way through it.

(21:22):
Like I, you're wasting time arguing about it on the internet.
Like there's my log in a Facebook, someone's screaming about AI something.
And I'm like, they're like, I'll never support this person.
I'm like, okay, cool.
But why don't you just get back to work?
Like, I just, the way that like, I'm so just like, I'm such a mom, like, listen.
Do it or don't, I don't like, like I got work to do.

(21:44):
Like if you, if you were spending, because I just, I personally believe in no free words.
Like I used to do a lot of free words.
People would come and ask me to do a blog.
I would do a blog.
People would come and ask me to do such and such.
I would do such and such.
Back in the day when X was Twitter and Twitter was the thing, people would be on therearguing with fighting for their lives, which was, and I was like, okay.
But then I was like, all that time you spent on Twitter and X arguing with a stranger onthe internet, what if you'd written a thousand words?

(22:08):
Yes!
wrote a book and that
a thousand words on the little Twitter manifesto.
They sure did.
And I was like, but what if, and then they complain that they're not selling any books.
Like I was like, I don't know what to tell you.
Like this is the first chapter of the, almost half of the first chapter, babe.
And it's like a, it's a dissertation.
Yeah.

(22:29):
and they're mad and you're like, okay, I hear you, but A, you're not gonna change thatperson's mind.
Exactly.
And I think that's part of the problem is everybody's so out to change other people'sminds about something.
I'm like, let them have their opinion or how they feel.
That's them.
Why does that bother you so much?
unless someone is hurting someone or causing like harm and damage, like, you know, likeI'm sure you guys saw the Twitter shenanigans or Twitter TikTok shenanigans about people

(23:01):
like black readers shitting on a black author.
And I was like, huh?
Wait, Black Readers shouldn't what?
I'll send it to you later, you know I got all the tea.
I have to admit, right now I've been kind of like not on social media, I'm like a ghost atthis moment, so
they're trying to shit on like the sweetest author of all time.
Like she's so nice.

(23:21):
She's, she's well, I don't, yeah, but like, I don't want to bring attention to people whoare like going to go look at that.
It's called for only one week and it's a great beautiful sweet story And uh, y'all gocheck it out.
But the thing is like your point you were making nana.
Go ahead

(23:42):
No, it's just like that, like we'd rather spend time doing that.
I'm like, all that time you spent doing that, you could have written like really goodwords.
And so like, don't look at me and be talking about like, oh, well, I just never have anytime to write.
I'm like, get off of Twitter.
I just write, get off of Twitter.
I don't know what else to say to you.
listen, I'ma have, listen, I'ma have to, I always got time to share the tea.

(24:05):
I'm messy.
I'm like, God is working on me with that.
Nella, you know, Moni, you know, I love the mess.
I love the tea.
Nella be like, I'm working.
I'm like, but listen, here goes some tea.
Let me get some tea in.
is, I love tea, right?
I look, cause listen, I don't live on Petty Avenue because like, listen, Petty Avenue, thecost of living there, I'm just like, why, I can't know.

(24:32):
But I'm gonna drive through and maybe get some ice cream every now and again.
But let me tell you about when I'm gonna drive through Petty Avenue, is my work done?
Yes.
Is my family taken care of?
Yes.
Like, have I done everything I need to do?
Yes.
And then I'm gonna be like, ooh girl, did you see?
Cause the way that I'd be living
Because the way that I am living in Josh Jackson and Lupita Nyong'o's relationship rightnow is not even healthy in any way, shape or form.

(24:58):
But listen, but I'm not gonna be up and all on all the gossip sites trying to be like,okay, so but when did he and Jodi break up?
Because I don't have time for that.
I'm gonna wait till all my work is done.
And then at night, when my work is done and I'm getting ready for bed, I'm like, okay, sothen they want vacation in Mexico, right?
But then Jodi, everyone remember how Jodi a couple months ago was like, oh, but it's justa beautiful thing, you know?

(25:18):
Like...
we had a beautiful moment and sometimes it doesn't work out.
It's not a failure.
And I'm like, PR spin, PR spin, PR spin, how they get together.
I want to know the deets, but I can't live them.
Cause who has time?
I have books to write.
but I'm more interested in the Andrew Lincoln and Danai Gurira, like the budding...

(25:45):
Listen, I don't know how you say...
more for that than even the Rick Michonne-like relationship.
the way that man looks at her, but like, I know.
Look, look.
Okay, look.
I just, every time I see the two of them, I'm like, okay, so we're giving, we're givingCarrie and what and what's his name energy.

(26:08):
I was like, no, it's fine.
I just didn't know.
because the way he like, the way that interviewer was interviewing her about the show andhe's like, yeah, but look at her dress.
Like he, the man, I just was like, okay, okay.
Listen, I feel like I'm witnessing something I shouldn't see, but like I'm here withpopcorn because you know, I didn't know it was that kind of movie, this red carpet.

(26:33):
I didn't know that, I just, okay.
If nothing else, they are giving the people what they want.
YEAH!
and maybe it's an act, these people are actors, that is their job.
However, I mean, so like, you know, right?
And so like, but like, I want to be in it because the way I should have been a gossipcolumnist, I just, the way I think, even for my New York City days, I should have been a

(26:57):
gossip columnist, the way that I was all in it.
But I'm not, I'm a romance author.
So I have to make these people get on the page and bone and give them a reason to bomb.
Hehe
That's the gig.
But tell us this, you have been so successful in the indie world.

(27:17):
Just you started out trad, then you went to indie, right?
What is making you go back into the traditional publishing?
You know, even at this point, you know, I'm assuming because I'm nosy, they must haveoffered you some excellent money.

(27:39):
because you don't even need that type of headache.
Yeah, no, it's so true.
No, I mean, the money was good, but it wasn't about the money per se.
I mean, long story short, I had an idea for a YA book and I was talking to this producerfriend who's also an author that I knew.

(28:02):
And we'd been talking for ages, going back and forth, back and forth.
And she'd always be like, send me a log line.
And I would send her one, nothing would ever happen.
And finally she sends, she's like, oh, send me a log line for that YA.
and I sent her one, she's like, yes, this, can you pitch it?
And pitch it to other producers and a streamer.
And I'm gonna be careful about what I say just because it did not go well in the end.

(28:30):
And so, and I pitched it, but what was interesting is like I wrote the pitch and theywanted me in the room to pitch to the streamer and I was like, me?
But honestly,
supposed to just be like, yes, here's the thing.
And then you guys go off and decide if you want to make it.
But they wanted me in the room.
And the streamer was very impressed.
And they were like, oh.
And they were like, I was like, yeah, it's a book.
I was like, it was a YA.

(28:51):
That one is done.
But the feedback has been to age it up.
And they wanted it aged up.
And I was like, well, then it's no longer a coming of age story.
And then it's got to be something else.
And so I have to now write that book.
And they're like, how quickly?
And I was like, I can write a book in two months.
Like, what's?
How hard is that?
And they were like, wow, okay, yes, it's a book.

(29:12):
And I was like, yeah.
So anyway, fast forward, finally, it's been a year or whatever.
And finally they come with an offer, the streamer does to make this, whatever.
But then they're like, the money they're offering is not what they should offer.
And then my lawyer starts asking questions, where's the option?
And they're like, what option?

(29:32):
It's not a book.
And I was like,
the writer we hired knows it's a book, they're waiting on the book.
I turn in a book to you and you told me, I turn in a book to the producer, the producerwas like, this is a great book, it's amazing, bopity bop, you're now telling me it's not a
book.
So basically some, I don't know what happened, but all I know is that my money that wouldhave been an option was not there and that they were saying, here's a small, small amount

(29:59):
of money and you get an executive producer credit.
And I was like,
And where it really went wrong was that the producer was insisting that I take it andbeing very aggressive insisting that I take it.
In that kind of like year time, my agent and I had been talking before it all came upanyway, but she wasn't my agent then.

(30:24):
But I told her what happened, the aging it up.
I sent her the book.
She's like, oh, that's not the way we talked about, this is actually really good.
And so she decided to represent me.
And so then I had an agent and they were, they did not like that.
They did not like that someone, and my agency comes with a film agent.
So they did not like that.
And so it just blew up.
It was very, it was very nasty.

(30:46):
And you know, people wanted to sue, like it was a whole thing.
Oh yeah, uh-huh.
And a whole slew of other things that I'm not interested in getting into.
But they were very unhappy.
And so...
my agent looked at me and she was like, we can't use that book.
And I was like, I know.

(31:08):
So I had to rewrite a story, like the same similar themes, because what everyone reallyloved about the YA was like this dynamic between like this young Danya girl and her
mother, really, which is like, you know, but also what I wanted to do was tell a storywhere, because every story you ever see of like Africans is like either struggling at
home, or like here in America struggling, even it's like, oh, yeah, you know.

(31:33):
You have to work hard to like whatever, whatever.
And you never get to see this other side of people who like are not struggling.
Cause that's the one story even told of African Africans.
It's like, oh, everyone's struggling so hard.
Bopity bop, that's the story.
That's the story you get told, which is not particularly my story and the story of peopleI know.
So I was like, that never resonates.
And like, that's not true.
People were like, oh, so you're a taxi driver.

(31:55):
And I'm like, no, my dad's a fucking PhD.
You took the internet to West Africa.
What are you talking about?
Yeah.
And so I just really wanted to look at that kind of like different slice of life.
Like what happens when the heroine doesn't mean money?
She's running around in her new shoes and bag and like, you know, like decked head to toeand like, you know, Prada and gunnion designers mixing and matching and looking fabulous.

(32:22):
Like that's the kind of heroine I want to tell stories about that matches my experienceand matches the people that I know.
And
that real kind of fun, but like that doesn't match indie at all.
Like if you look at the indie market, those aren't, you know, like you're getting likestories about nothing that go on for a thousand pages and stay on the New York Times to

(32:43):
sell a list when they literally say nothing.
Um, that's what's selling an indie right now.
Um, and I'm like, no, it's boring.
I, that's boring to me to write.
Um.
And it just doesn't fit, it's not dark, it's not like billionaire, mine, it doesn't fit.
And so the kind of story I'm trying to tell is like crazy rich Asians, like what that didfor that market, what that did for, you know, to show showcasing of Hawaiian culture and

(33:12):
like this whole other thing that like we don't know anything about.
And it was like rich and just like so culturally rich, like you could like feel it.
you were there, you were walking the halls, you could smell the expensive, whatever thehell that is that they spray in the hotels, but you could, it was a whole experience.
And I wanted to do that, but for Ghanaians, you know, like the rich color, like, you know,like, when you go to church, it's a freaking fashion show.

(33:36):
Like, it's not even funny.
Like, it's like, if you came and like, whatever like shoes you had in your closet and likethe name on them wasn't Jimmy Choo, like, what are you doing?
Like step up your game.
And so I just really wanted to like,
showcase that world in that kind of vein, and it wasn't a story for Indy.
And also, you know, I would like to get a movie made of it because I know that the story'sgood.

(33:58):
So, um, it comes with...
just hearing, just listening to you talk about it.
It's amazing.
Yeah, so I mean, rewriting the book, well, I mean, it wasn't rewriting.
It was like coming up with like taking the things, the concept that like, obviously Iloved and it's like intrinsically me because I am from Ghana and these are the people in

(34:20):
the culture that I know.
And then like having to conceptualize a new story, that part sucked because I loved it thefirst story.
However, ask for me, I don't like Assam, which is in Ghana, Assam is like trouble.
I don't like worries.
So.
Plus you also don't mess with me because if you paint me in a corner, I will write myselfout of it.

(34:40):
So I did.
And so, but it was a story that was kind of like a bigger, broader, and it's, you know,and I've always, I've kind of been hybrid indie and tried for a bit.
You know, I went back a little bit for some Harlequin stuff and I was like, oh yeah,that's what I don't like.
But I mean, my new publisher is very different.
I'm with Galleries, I'm gonna shoot for now.
And it's like just, it's bigger, it's broader, like the ideas that they have for the bookand.

(35:05):
for where I could go.
The book is written, so we're in edits right now.
So it's gonna release in 2025, as far as I know.
That's kind of what...
ARK!
Woohoo!
I know, I can't wait!
Oh my god, I can't wait!
I'm not like now.
Y'all arcs are different, man.
They are very different in trad.
So like, it's gonna be interesting.

(35:26):
So it's very interesting.
But yeah, no, but like my editor, she is, I can't even say, like it's Carrie Farron andshe is a kingmaker in the romance world.
You know, she, like early Lisa Kleypass, like all those people, Sarah McLean, like she'sediting Misha Sharma.
Like she's, as an editor, she is.

(35:47):
unparalleled.
So I'm excited to have her like, like the edits I've seen so far, like she's, it's reallygreat because she doesn't touch the things that make me magical.
But she has like ideas.
She's like, Oh, what if we move this over here?
How do you feel?
And I'm like, Oh, yes.
Just to like make it like, it's like, it's like me, but like, you know, it's like you

(36:08):
Yeah, a little finessing, a little finessing and you keep your voice.
I'm so excited and this is what you deserve.
This is what this type of thing is what you deserve.
Thank you, yeah.
Now I've been working very hard and like, and it'll be great to kind of, cause I have likethe kind of, I have story ideas that like don't match the Nana Malone indie brand that,

(36:33):
you know, cause like I'm obsessed with like Bama Rush.
You know, I'm obsessed with Bama Rush.
Like I rush the sorority, I don't know why, but I mean, I wouldn't set it in Bama, but Idid do sorority rush when I was in college, you know?
And so like,
I'm like, the fact that like Bama Rush is a thing, I'm like, okay.

(36:54):
And the way that like people are like, you know, like they're rooting for their girls andthey're, and I'm like, yes, this is crazy.
I've already told my daughter you're not doing that.
You're gonna be an AKA.
You're not doing that, okay?
You're not doing that.
You're going to be an AKA.
The best part is when she gets there, she will decide for herself.

(37:18):
Not with my money.
Yeah
Don't be, listen, don't joke because the way I got there, like when I got to college, Iwas like, well, I guess I can get a job.
Don't, don't play.
Cause when you start playing with ultimatums, whoo, as a child who was.
whole go down Moses thing.
We're gonna do the whole.
Listen, as a woman who was given many an ultimatum, I would not suggest, as a parent, Igive very few.

(37:43):
Because I don't know what kind of like, it depends on the personality type, but like I...
strong.
She's her father.
She's very...
Look, I'm the softy.
She's very strong.
when I grew up and then like kind of came into my own, I was like, you want to tell mewhat to do?
I dare you.

(38:03):
One of us will cry and it won't be me.
And apparently I carry that energy everywhere I go.
good energy to have.
I'm kind of the same way like I'm not you know I'm gonna do what I want to do at the endof the day.
Yeah, you know, like, I mean, the thing is I will take advice and like I said, I love tolearn because I assume I'm not right.

(38:26):
But like, if someone comes at me and then ultimately, the way like, you should just see,if you see me go like this, just start to like crack my neck, it's literally my insides
trying to be like, oh, hell no.
Like, you know?
And the person could be right, who knows?
The point is you came at me with the wrong energy and now you must cry.

(38:46):
I don't make the rules.
Is that the energy you took into brown nipple challenge and audio and color?
Yeah, when I started the Brown Nipple Challenge, it was meant to be, I was just trying tohave a response to what was going on in 2020.

(39:09):
I've been out protesting, but I couldn't give that kind of energy.
It also felt futile, right?
Because it's like, all that's gonna happen is more black and brown bodies in jail for acouple of nights.
I just...
and it didn't feel safe and it was very anxiety inducing.
And I couldn't, I didn't want to take my daughter into that realm, you know, because shewanted to do something.

(39:33):
And so I had to figure out a way that I could affect change.
The change that might actually do something, change that was on the more positive endinstead of really looking at like stopping the negative.
Cause like people are people and they're gonna do what they're gonna do.
And like, you know, like I can't, I don't have time to argue with people, right?
And so when I started Brown Apple Challenges, kind of, I mean, honestly, I think I, I'mgoing to give credit.

(39:59):
I think it was Mel Harlow who gave the, who had the name.
Cause I was like, Oh, you know, I was like, I was like, I don't, I didn't have any, I waslike, Oh, like Brown Book Seers, like, like Brown Girl Books or something.
Cause these are like Brown Book Seers already.
And I was like, and she was like, and I was like, I just like, you know, I was like, I waslike, I wanted like, give like the Brown Apple Girls a shot and like I was conceptualizing
it.
And then

(40:19):
I was like, it's just basically like a book club.
You know, I was telling her, like, I was trying to gather like my author friends to do itas well.
And she was like, yeah, she's like, oh, like a brown nipple challenge, like bookchallenge.
And I was like, brown nipple challenge.
So I think that was Mel.
I have to go back to like my DMs and go look, but I think that was Mel Harla.
And when I came up with it, you know, it was meant to be like a, you know, like book club.

(40:45):
Cause people kept like acting like their Google was broken.
They're like, where, but where?
I want to read, I want to read diversely.
But where, where shall I find books with like people who are brown, who have melanin?
I was like, what should you do?
You take your happy ass to Google and you type it in.

(41:07):
African-American books, books by Asian authors.
I mean, the people act very dumb, but they're also lazy.
Like this, it's also like the rise of the lazy person.
Like the number of times I've had people for takeover, like very excited, they're like,they'll be on TikTok and they'll DM me, they'll be like, oh my God, I wanna read this,
what's the synopsis?

(41:28):
Mm-hmm.
Go to Amazon or my website and figure it out.
more than one, at least four.
And I've been like, Jesus better take this wheel before I go ahead and take it.
I just, I'm like, so I just leave, you leave it.
Or like my assistant, I'm like, respond very nicely.

(41:50):
And deal with this.
But like people just, the rise of laziness, they're like, oh, but I can't.
So I don't even look at the author.
I'm like, and you know, like really educating people be like, you're like, Amazon is analgorithm.
So if you never, ever, ever had picked up a book or looked at a book or looked for a bookwritten by someone Brown, then they will never show you that.

(42:11):
And back in the early days when I was starting, if you tagged your book as multicultural,they actively didn't show it.
Even if you were also like contemporary, they instead showed your book to urban, which ifyou know me and you've read any of my books, you're like, that's not urban, which is an...

(42:32):
satisfactory experience and I would get the reviews that showed it.
I was like, why are you showing my books to people who like urban books that don't makeany sense?
I just happen to have brown nipples in here, like what are you doing?
And so at some point I have to take my books out of multicultural until the white girlsdiscovered multicultural and they were like, well he's Italian and she's German so it's

(42:52):
multicultural and I'm like, hmm.
And so, right?
And so then it became safe because they were like, well no, white women are using it.
So now we got a show, keep showing it to the other categories.
And so that was like a real determined shift.
Cause like in that category before, man, the way you would get showed it to urban readersso fast.

(43:13):
And there's nothing wrong with urban readers.
My books were not urban.
So they were getting sent a bad experience.
And so I really wanted to just showcase like all authors of color and really be like, hey,who are writing romance?
Cause that's my space.
Like people were like, oh, do it for sci-fi.
I was like, I don't read enough sci-fi.
you do it for sci-fi.

(43:33):
And I was like, Brown Nipples really says you're gonna be seeing some of these titties,which is romance.
I don't know what to tell you.
And so I was like, I picked books that were in my genre because I did understand that itwas like, in terms of marketing, people wanna keep reading, they want the same but
different.
So, if someone is like Mel Harlow writes small town romance, I would be like, hey Mel, orlike small town spicy, right?

(44:00):
Mel is like,
contemporary and then she's like spicy and then she sets it in a small town.
But because she's not cutesy like if you if you read it like there's like Lucy Square isvery cutesy and then you've got this neighbor and that neighbor and that neighbor that's
not really Mel it's just Mel is like old school like Nora Roberts with like a higher heatkick that's how I would describe it anyway.

(44:22):
And but I was like well pick an author that's like you.
in your genre, like in what you do, so that your readers are going to go, oh, that soundseasy.
That's just like Mel.
I had no idea that there was a black woman who writes just like Mel out there.
And that's an easy thing.
Cause like you had people who were writing small town who wanted, who were like, can I doKennedy Ryan?

(44:44):
And I was like, that don't.
Sorry.
Doesn't that smell good?
Like, Kennedy is amazing.
Kennedy is fantastic.
He's poignant.
Kennedy's gonna make you cry.
Kennedy's gonna make you think.
You talking about the dog ran into the thing and then the dog tripped the guy and then thegirl fell on him and then they kissed and that was closed door.

(45:09):
That's what you write and you're talking about you wanna do Kennedy Ryan.
I'm sorry.
You ain't ready for that.
What are you talking about?
You're reading.
they know.
That's the name.
Yeah.
the name they know, right?
Like people who are like, oh, can I do you?
And I was like...
You write very dark.
in the book?
Is there a heist?
I was like, you write very dark.

(45:30):
I appreciate you, but that's not, people are going to be disappointed.
And so trying to get people to understand, I'm like, pick an author, for every authorthat's out there, there's someone like them who is Asian, who is South Asian, who is
Middle Eastern, who is Black, who is whatever.
There's somebody out there, just decolonize your bookshelves and people will act likethey, I can only find one author.

(45:55):
I'm like,
There's a lot of other races.
I'm not even saying they gotta be black.
I'm just saying brown.
And so that was like a education thing that had to happen.
And, but you know, went off with a rising success because people really didn't want tohelp.
They just needed to be told what to do.
And like, cause people are like, I wanna help.

(46:15):
And I'm like, I don't know, we can do something.
Like, you know, but like it just, the book club helped.
And then a very good friend of mine, Andy Aren't, reached out and she said, hey, I noticedthe first couple of books that you personally picked since you're the spearheader didn't
have audio books.
And I was like, yeah, dude, some of these books, because my eyeballs are hurting.
And she was like, she goes, we should fix that.

(46:36):
And I was like, OK.
She's like, how do I help?
I'm like, share it, I guess.
But she had an investor type like in the in the romance space who wanted to do somethingwith her, like a project.
and pay her like decent money.
Like, you know, they were like, yeah, we have 30 grand.
We'd love to give it to you to do something.
And she was like, you won't give me that 30 grand, but let me tell what you're gonna giveit to me for.

(46:57):
She was like, what if we could do like a grant program?
And I was like, I don't know anything about non-profit.
Like the way I was like, oh, that sounds like extra work, but Andy, he's a force.
She was like, I was like, dude, Andy, I don't have, cause like, I was like, cause ofcourse I was like, oh, but then who's available for the grant?
And we have, like, I was like, I read, but like, I have to write, and I cannot makereading my full-time job.

(47:17):
And she's like, we'll get judges, don't worry.
And I was like, everything I had like a thing about, she was like, don't worry.
I was like, Andy is a force of nature.
Next thing I knew, next thing I know, we've got a nonprofit, and like, we're about tostart our third round.
Next thing, and the romance community was just so amazing.
They just, like, I'm always, like, there's, you see a lot of shenanigans, you do.

(47:40):
There's, there's much shenanigans.
but the way that they will come for you, help you and support you.
People I've never even met who are like, here's a whole chunk of money.
And I'm just like, for real?
And it's very heartwarming because you can get, when you see all the negative things, youcan get discouraged, you can get depressed, you can get like, there's not, you're like, oh

(48:04):
my God, there's no way to change.
But I personally believe that people want to be good, they want to do good, they want,people do want to help.
Sometimes they're dumb and you have to tell them what to do.
But I find that when you give people an opportunity and you're like, this is what I needand this is how I need it, they'll be like, oh, great.

(48:25):
I just needed to know what to do.
Like taking the extra step to like think that through what to do.
Not everyone can do that.
And it's been interesting trying to like relearn that.
But like, if you tell most people, like give some money to this, this is what it's doing.
Boppity boppity bop, they'll be like, here's a check.
You know?

(48:46):
And you're also getting a lot of people who are like, cause you know, like a lot of D andI programs are being shut down.
You're getting a lot of people who also are like, we did that last year.
No money for you.
We're getting a lot of corporate people like that.
Oh wow.
Yeah, everybody feels like I did it when I needed to and now I can push it to the side.
And now it's like, okay, it will come back up again.

(49:07):
There's another like spring coming, I'm telling you.
I was like, when it comes up again and then you come with your sorry self and you're like,oh yes, we support it.
I'll be like, actually, cause that's when I will get on the internet.
Yeah, no, I'm right here with you.
I remember you were taught.
I remember when you posted your black square.
Remember when you were saying, yes, we got these programs.

(49:28):
I also remember when you canceled them.
And then when people came to you for money and said, we need your help.
And you're like, oh, that's no longer a company priority.
And I have the receipt.
So I can't like, when it happens again, they want to be like, oh, but we want to help you.
I'll be like, no, I remember.
I will not take money from people.
That's a lie.
I'll take your money.
This is.
just do it when it's like a public outcry about it.
You got to be doing it all the time.

(49:48):
money because my whole thing is I want all, like, I want the global majority to staywinning it, stay doing stuff, take the money.
So, proud of the people, but you know.
forward the tea to me.
I will disseminate widely.
That's my goal.
Look, that almost journalism degree.

(50:09):
I didn't go that way, but I love like I would have been the what?
Like you said, the gossip person, I would have been the inquirer.
I would have had the shots.
But can we also talk about another beautiful thing that I think that you did, which wasputting yourself on some of your covers, which I think are absolutely gorgeous.

(50:33):
Yes, I know.
Look at that.
It's gorgeous.
It's beautiful.
Yeah, no, I mean, the cover thing, it's funny.
A lot of people are like, oh my God, boss move.
But like, at the end of the day, I did them because I couldn't find something that Ineeded.
And, you know, and it highlighted, because again, I've been here since the Paleolithic eraof romance.

(50:57):
I've been here a long time.
And when I go looking for images and the same tired, you know the one where the guy who,
been in tears like when you're trying to look for stock images and you just you're justlike it's gonna look like everybody else's cover
It's the same images.
You know the one where like this is beautiful, dark skinned girl, her hair shorter, right?

(51:19):
It's like relaxed, you know, to the nth degree.
Right, no, it's not even a bob.
It's like, it's short.
Like, yeah, kind of.
Like, and it's just like at the nape of her neck.
And then the guy looks like he's eroded out, like I don't even, like dark hair.
You know exactly the set of images.
How come they still out there?
How come we can't do that?

(51:40):
And then like one, and then one author put him, this, I don't know if y'all remember this,cause the way my memory works is like, I don't forget things.
And so one author had him on like a lot of her covers.
And then he came out as like a birther.
Yeah, no, he like, yeah, he did something like really heinous or said that like he didn'tlike, it was something like with either body image or something like that about certain

(52:09):
women, and it was really terrible.
That's a different one.
Okay, so that's a different guy, okay.
Okay.
The, cause the one that came out was like no big women was, I think he had prosthetics.
He was like a big, I can't remember his name.
Like he was like a big, he was like a vet.

(52:32):
And just like very muscled out.
He wasn't that guy.
I'm talking about the guy.
And I don't know if his name is Jimmy, but like I'm talking about the guy that's been inall of the IR photos.
He looks like he does, you know, corn, but with a P.
And I was like, like 1970s corn, like 1980s, you know, you know what I mean?

(52:54):
You know what I mean?
That's what it looks.
And that comes up too.
Shut the door.
What's so interesting about that is now, was it going back to your AI discussion, and thenwe got to get into the gentlemen roles.

(53:15):
The thing about, cause we taking up all down the town, wait a minute.
This has just become a gossip fatty thing.
But what's funny about what's so ironic is, now people are using really beautiful
finessed black AI art on interracial art on these AI covers.

(53:39):
And people are saying, how dare you?
But the writers are saying, we have been begging for years.
And so how dare you?
So, and that is a whole different ball of wax.
I mean, well, the AI, because I, what I say, like I consider myself, like I'm in aprivileged position.

(54:03):
And so how I use my privilege is I try and bring everybody up while I'm here.
Because like, who knows how long I'll be here, right?
And so if I can bring anybody up behind me, I'm like, come on, come on, like a whole crackopen the door and be like, shove people in like, under like, under my arm, be like, shh,
don't tell, just get in.
Um, and so like that's, you know, like, you know, like, cause you know, don't say you'redoing it.

(54:26):
Cause then I, they got something to say.
Um, but like, I do say like, you know, everyone who has something to say about AI and weall have our stances, right?
You know, cause like, if it's stolen from actual artists and it's stolen from styles, thenI think that that, that is wrong.
However.

(54:48):
If we're talking about just a style of something, and then also what you have accent, likeif you are a non-melanated author and you have had nothing but a plethora of everything,
because I will tell you, the reason I was on my own covers is I was redoing covers and mypublisher, my publicist at the time, you know, so my publicist, Nina, said, listen, given

(55:14):
everything with 2020, I think it's time for you to put black girls on your covers again,because I had done it for many years.
And it was fine at first, and then it started to hurt me because people were like, oh,it's not for me.
And then they carried on.
And so I took black girls off the covers and weird thing, I started selling so greatassholes.
But anyway, and she's like, it's time to go back, especially after what you've done withBradnickle challenge and what you're doing in 2020, let's go back.

(55:38):
And I was like, ah, couldn't find a single picture with black, dark skinned black woman ina ball gown with a.
The third is the caveat really, with a hot dude.
Cause you see these boos out here, either look at that poindexter or like they'd be corn.
So, and we couldn't find one.

(55:58):
So I called around, I was willing to pay.
So I called around to all the romance photographers and they were like, oh, black womendon't sell.
With their whole chests.
And we're like, I don't have any black models.
And I was like, can you find one?
I couldn't find one, right?
Cause like she, it was Royals.
And so she needed to look the part.
And so I called a good friend of mine.

(56:20):
I've done covers with him before, Wander Aguiar, who is a poor lady.
And so just, he's fantastically talented and he's very, very kind.
And he also is like, this, he's like, this is wrong.
He's like, he's an image of real life.
He's like, it's like, he's like, it's so weird.
Cause he has a model Amber, who is the most beautiful woman alive.
I think I have a serious crush on Amber cause that woman is like, wow.

(56:42):
He's like, I post a photo of Amber.
He's like, she...
gets the most likes by miles on all of the photos that I post.
He's like, but she sells the least amount.
And I'm like, word.
So because that is the fact, right?
And he's like, it's hard to get.
I mean, she's happy to come and shoot all the time, but she wants to be paid for her time,right?

(57:08):
And so finally, I call him, and I was like, hey, what's Amber doing?
And he said, he's like, oh, I said, what does Amber look like right now?
And he's like, oh, she looks great.
She's beautiful.
Just stunning.
And I was like, of course, let's look.
I want to book a shoot with her.
He's like, oh, she's beautiful.
And she's six months pregnant.
And I was like, that's not the vibe.
no!
Thank you.
sound the vibe.
And I was like, are you kidding?

(57:29):
He's like, yeah.
And I was like, how pregnant?
Cause like at six months I had, you know, I had HG, so hypermesis.
And I was like, I was still quite thin at six months.
Um, cause I couldn't eat anything.
And he was like, oh no, she's, she can't see your feet pregnant.
And I was like, nevermind.
Um, and so I was like, I, you know, I didn't know what to do.

(57:50):
And, and Nina looked at me and she was like, you need to be on the cover.
And I was like, you're out of your goddamn mind.
And I called Wander laughing.
I called Wander's partner, Andre, and I was laughing about it.
I was like, I said I should do the cover myself.
And he was like, oh my God, perfect.
And him and Wander were like, yes.
And before I knew it, Wander had me dresses and hair and makeup.

(58:14):
And he was like, come on this date.
He's like, we'll try and get Andrew here.
We'll see who else is available.
And it turned out to be Philip.
And I turned up.
on a weekend in September that year, and I went and shot.
We make up in here.
that story, and I just love those covers are just absolutely beautiful to me
Thank you.
And then.
everything I saw a picture of you like in front of like a red door something you are youhad on red you were in London I was like we need these pictures on covers too I'm like

(58:48):
just random Nana pictures
Just rich random.
Yeah, I mean, and I do that when I go anywhere, I travel internationally, I definitely, Iwill hire like a local photographer and do photos for content.
Just because like, you know, you just kind of always need stuff.
And it's like, think of it as like B-roll, but for authors, I'm like, you know, you justgo around the city to take pictures.

(59:10):
I mean, London was from that grade.
Cause like red is like, I should always, Nina Kalbisch, you should only ever wear red.
My guest ma'am.
But yeah, no, and then like for these, the Kobo original ones, you know, when I did theoriginals with Kobo, they were like, we've seen you on your own covers, we want that.
And I was like, again?
But guys, I've already, I've done this.

(59:32):
This is, you know, it's a one trick pony.
They were like, we want it.
And I was like, okay.
So I did those and a different photographer.
But yeah, I mean, and what was interesting is after, I, you know, I was terrified, youknow?
Cause I mean, I put myself out there, but like in work.
you know, but like with your whole face, that's opening up like a wound from like a corewound from being young and being called ugly by, you know, non-melanated kids in

(59:58):
Massachusetts.
I mean, it was Massachusetts, so fair.
But, you know, like I was called ugly constantly.
And so like, I just, I just don't have like a very specific, like I'm not, don't worry.
I'm plenty confident.
My husband is like a little too overconfident.
But,
Hahaha!
But like, I was like, I'm not gonna open myself up to a wound like that.
I've done a lot of therapy and a lot of work.

(01:00:19):
This is, that's not dumb.
Why would I want to do that?
And so like, I just, I literally, I dropped the covers and I ran.
I didn't look at the internet until my phone started to blow up and Ciara Simone is like,ah!
I mean, she'd already seen them, but like she hadn't seen them in like the cover, thething, and it's like, ah!

(01:00:39):
And I was like, and then like, and then I went and looked and the-
The response was overwhelmingly just supportive and positive.
But what was interesting is that people's response was like, oh my God, now that you'vedone it, it's giving me the courage to do it myself.
And I was like, it was not the...
Don't do it!

(01:01:01):
No, get the cover get a photo shoot booked but unless you
No, but I mean, but I was like, that's not the point.
The point is that photographers should have images available.
Stopped photo places should have images available.
Like they should be available and they're not.
That is the point.

(01:01:22):
So that we can affect change.
It's real down.
And I was like, the point was to affect change.
Cause the fact that I had to, my old ass had to shimmy into a dress and hope and pray thatshit was gonna fit.
Cause it was a pandemic baby.
And my ass was doing things.
It had its own zip code.
when you say shimmy it's girl, please back

(01:01:42):
No, I'm not, I'm not, like, I'm not a fit size.
Like, this was a designer.
I walked into his shop and I was like, I'm not a size two.
And I got black girl ass, like, I don't know what we gonna do in here.
There were some things I tried on that, like my thigh was not, I was like, that's not,stop it.

(01:02:04):
They made me work though.
They made that and then I love that you it was high concept It was a princess.
It had a prince.
You had the princess vibe.
It was a beautiful like till this day.
I just I get that is so yummy And it's indicative Of the stories that you write which Ilove like, you know, I love london bridge, you know, I love um uh Ben that's my that's my

(01:02:32):
favorite of all your like
Top 10 of my favorite.
But let's get into the Gentleman Rogue series.
Oh my God.
Like she, you did your big one with that series.
Talk about how that came to be.
And then go into like take over and what we're looking forward to next.

(01:02:58):
Because.
I love the gentlemen rogue series.
It's like, that's my favorite series, even though Big Ben is my favorite book by you.
We gonna just like, we gonna start with, and then you got, is it Shane East, who does thevoice on there, on Big Ben?
Okay, cause I had to, I told Nana, I was like, I had to stop listening to him in my earholes because he was talking about my lady parts.

(01:03:28):
But I went back,
I had to do it like in doses because after him in my ears, I was like, baby, we got totalk.
But then I got over it and it's fantastic.
Her books are fantastic on audio.
Like Nana is doing, oh my God, you are so top tier.
But tell us about Jim Summon Rogues.

(01:03:50):
So the rogue started.
I mean, how I get most of my ideas is I will watch a movie, and then I'm like, oof, I needto fix that.
So.
Of course I'm always like, no, this was cute.
That was cute what y'all did, but let me fix it real quick.
So, but it was that you can tell it was written by men.

(01:04:10):
And so there was like no love story.
And so like the whole time, I don't know if y'all saw the Kingsman, but like there we are.
And like, we're all like, no, Eggsy and Roxy.
Eggsy and Roxy, they saved the world together.
Eggsy and Roxy.
And then they do not in fact kiss.

(01:04:31):
And at the end, like he gets to get the princess who got herself locked up and who's like,you can have that ass though.
The fuck.
to go.
So I was like, I'm gonna fix that for you.
I was like, secret government organization.
And I was like, obviously, black girls.
And I was like, but instead of the guy being like, the legacy and this is his, you know, Iwas like, no, she's the legacy.

(01:04:55):
Yeah, yeah, she's the legacy.
And really like, I just incorporated all the things that I love.
So like, you know, Kingsman was like the catalyst, like thought of like, let me fix it.
But then I incorporated all the things like, you know, black girl, like I loved alias.
I loved the femnichita.
I loved like all these, the queen sono.
And I wanted to just encapsulate and incorporate that onto the thing.

(01:05:19):
So it was like black girl alias is like my wheelhouse.
Like I was like, alias, make it black, you know?
And I like, and I just really, I really loved that.
So like that was the idea behind Saf and Lachlan really.
It started, I was like, secret government organization.
And then I was like, they gotta save the world against whatever.
And I was like, who is she?
And then that really started to build.

(01:05:39):
And I was like, she's a badass.
And what if she has to, and then I started like being like, okay, make a trophy.
And I was like, you can't just go in there and be like, okay, and then they fight.
And then there's a gunshot and then, you know, so I was like, make it trophy.
And I was like, give me the tropes.
And I was like, oh, like, I was like, I really played around with that in terms of like,oh, let's do a fun prequel.

(01:06:01):
Let's do a, you know, let's like give it.
this to a free prequel, which is like a thing people use as a device and something to do.
Let's give it a free prequel.
Let's, you know, let's see what we can do with that.
And so I tried it and so I did a one night stand, which that always, that works best forfree prequels because then they've met before.

(01:06:25):
And, you know, there's something very much about the air that that's the free prequel thatpeople like, oh my God, yes, that people really resonated with.
And so they came.
to the king and the king picks up basically and they have a one night stand.
And then he, she's, you know, three months later she's done her job, training people,arguing with her brother who everyone the moment they read the king of the world gave

(01:06:51):
book.
And, you know, she she'd been given her new training assignment, but it's the guy that,you know, she, you know rocked his world and ran out on.
But you know, weirdly he does not remember her.
And she thinks it's like part of the thing.
Oh, he's like, oh, of course I don't know you.
And she's like, right, we don't know each other.

(01:07:12):
But then she realized he's not pretending.
He doesn't know her.
And that's the, and that's the hook of like how it goes.
So she's mad.
She is mad, mad.
Like I've rocked your world like that.
me, sir.
Yeah
She's like, I put that Meghan Markle on you and you walk it around, you're like, you don'tknow me.

(01:07:35):
So that was how the catalyst started, like really and how I built that world.
And then like, you build fascinating characters around that, you know.
Did you always plan for it to be like a four, well, with the eight, five, it's five.
But did you always plan for it to be a four book series?
Yeah, I mean, I did.

(01:07:55):
I mean, well, I mean, I left an opening, right?
Like, I put openings in there for future characters in case I want to go back.
You are, that's like, you are so smart to do that.
I love that.
Like, you know, keep the series going.
Keep it going, baby.
yeah, I mean, no, I very much listened to Bella Andre at this, like one RWA many yearsago.

(01:08:16):
She was like, never, ever, ever close a series, what's wrong with you?
And very smart.
And so like, I mean, when I did, I did all the, I did the boys, like, so it's the fivebooks.
And especially in the spies when I, I knew the villain was going to be last becauseeverybody, like you'd seen Drake and then.

(01:08:37):
Hahaha!
I love the first one, but then the, okay, cause I write villains, you know, when I sawthe, that's the, you know, and you, and I liked when your, your men are always so
protective.
That's what, that's like the,
Tell us about the Nana Malone guarantee before we get into takeover.

(01:08:58):
What is the Nana Malone guarantee in your books?
But because I always get these strong protective alpha men, right?
What else is there?
but it's funny because I don't even, most of the time, I wouldn't say that I write alphasbecause they are heroes.
Every last one of them are heroes.
Even the villain was a hero.

(01:09:19):
Like I like a hero.
I like a hero archetype.
I really, I really, really like heroes.
Like it's, they may be alpha and maybe sometimes unhinged, but they're always heroes.
They're always, they will always choose to do the right thing.
for the people that they need to do the right thing for.

(01:09:41):
Is the caveat, right?
Cause sometimes they be killing people, it happens.
But like, especially for the villain.
I mean, I think Drake, like I set him up for a long time.
And I mean, and I told you in the King that maybe he wasn't actually a villain.
Like I did tell you, cause he did save Saf's life.
You know, everyone kind of forgot about that.

(01:10:01):
But like Saf, I mean, but Saf has a right to be big mad because she's like, even thoughshe knows he didn't.
kill her parents.
That's not a spoiler, it says it in the thing.
But she's still like, I hate you, you worked for the man who did it and you were part ofthe catalyst and if you hadn't been there, you know, so she's mad, you know, and she has a
right to be.

(01:10:23):
And so she, but like, I mean, she tried to kill him.
Except like, her brother was like, her brother was like, no, we don't kill people.
And she's like, tell him that.
And so with the villain, I had to show that, I mean, he's a hero, but sometimes you're atwar and so you do things.

(01:10:44):
And sometimes it ends just by the means.
And then you act accordingly, right?
And so I always knew that it was, I was like, it was someone called the villain.
And it was like, I had to really sink in.
I couldn't make him the hero.
I couldn't show he was a hero, right?
And so like when he kidnaps Daphne, I had to like make that shit real.

(01:11:08):
But it's still me, so it's still funny.
You know, like she's still like, Daphne's a spitfire.
So she's like, you know, cussing him out.
And you know, like it's still funny.
And he's still, and he's got a dry wit in there.
And you know, and you know from the spy, in Gabe's book that like, he's just a spy.
He's not necessarily the villain.

(01:11:29):
And so you like, you know, you see the reader is like in on it and there, but like thereader is also like he did kidnap a bitch.
Where are we going?
Oh, he's, he put her, she's kidnapped.
She's chained up for real.
Oh, because you have to like fulfill the promise of the promise.
So like they want to see a villain.

(01:11:49):
And then, I mean.
I found writing kidnap that people like did the first kidnap with toxic.
They love that.
They love an unrequested vacation.
Yeah, I'd request it.
Yes!
You know...
Force the battle!
You know...
like that!
That's even better!
It's like, you're about to have a forced sabbatical that you didn't know you were taking.

(01:12:12):
Yeah.
Love for sabbaticals.
See, I love that word play.
See, that collaboration, I love it.
I mean, like that's just.
a tad bit better.
That's what, 17 years in the game.
Yeah, well, I mean, a lot longer than that writing in the game.
We won't talk about how long that was, but this is the 15, 16 in the, like to bepublished.

(01:12:39):
But yeah, no, that unscheduled vacation.
Yeah.
unplanned unrequested yes
yeah, you did not plan that.
It's like how I'll be like, oh no, I'm doing this thing and then I take an unplanned napand I'm like, ah!
Yeah.
But yeah, no, so for me that series was a lot of fun.

(01:13:00):
However, it was very hard after so long doing cliffhangers to go back to standalones.
Very, very difficult.
And, oh, cliffhangers, 100%.
Yeah, 100%.
Because I like that way of storytelling.
It's like, I already write like it's television or a movie.

(01:13:24):
And so for me,
I grew up in the 80s and 90s, even though I'm 29 again.
I grew up in the 80s and...
And I'm just the face, as long as the face part still says, can get away with 29, I'mgonna claim it.
And so I just really love that way of storytelling.

(01:13:46):
And like you'll get people who get mad.
Meh, meh, meh.
We not...
They, you know, they get mad about core fighters, but they all secretly want and lovethem.
They keep coming back for them now.
People are liars.
That's what I've discovered.
the thing is like you have like with Takeover, which is a like a marriage of conveniencekind of forced marriage type book, right?

(01:14:08):
That book you're about, you just released it and then when the next one's coming out,when?
So that's not alone.
I think that as long as it's like not over six months.
You need to come and tell the people in my DMs that that's not a long time to wait.
I'm fighting for my life and my own DM.

(01:14:28):
Okay?
I am, people are like, May?
I'm like, bitch, I waited a year for a Holly Black book.
Shut the fuck up.
Like, I don't know what you-
I waited a year for a Harley Black book.
one?
Which the Cool Prince series?
It was one before that, but I was like, I had just kind of picked it up because I waslike, oh, because I was kind of looking actually for something for Teelet.

(01:14:50):
And I was like, oh, this actually looks interesting.
Then I read it and I was like, it's like a clip hanger.
And I was like, okay.
And then I was like, when is it coming out?
And then I saw it was a year later and I was like, hmm.
I'm sorry.
I've never, listen, I've never gotten over it and I'm still mad.
But like I was like, it's only three months.

(01:15:11):
Wait.
Oh, but people are mad funny.
They're like in there like I'm waiting for my arc and I was like, y'all ain't getting arcsfor book two.
I don't know what to tell you.
Mmm.
Yeah
art team, you can apply to join it.
But you're not, I'm not, because I did, I didn't influencer like send out on the firstbook.

(01:15:31):
Um, and, you know, and I, I'm so grateful there were a lot of people who signed up and nowthat was great.
Um, so they got the paperback, you know, like I sent the paper back, I was like, great,cool, cool.
But like, people are like, they think that it's gonna be like a big send and a big thing.
That's not how booktos work, baby.
Yeah.
Book three, I'll do something.
And for the influencers who helped me out on the first round, I'll probably be like, hey,here's the E art.

(01:15:55):
I'm not sending you any physical, I might send you some art.
The people did really respond to the art though, which was great.
Because the art was spicy.
But like, and although I don't understand art, I'm not an art person.
Where do you put the art?
What are you doing with the art?

(01:16:15):
Where does it go?
leave it in the book and they just go visit it sometimes.
But so, okay, I don't get it.
Maybe art was super spicy.
So that was great.
And then I put it in these envelopes that were like marked not safe for work.
And so people were like, people were wild and out opening up on the internet.

(01:16:37):
So I was like, okay.
you didn't slip it into the pages Because I put mine in the pages where it's supposed towhere the scene was supposed to be
Yes, I will do that.
Like I'm gonna do a special edition like on my website.
just a vellum page.

(01:16:57):
It's not like the actual picture.
I do that with the, like what you said, like the special edition.
It'll be with the special edition.
But for the ones I already have done, I'm just slipping them inside.
Yeah, like, I mean, the special edition, I'm just gonna like actually make a page, like,and here is, so I'll show you guys that.

(01:17:19):
I don't know if this is gonna be seen, so.
not on the recording audio!
No, I wanna see it.
WHOA!
I was not expecting that!
What?
And then I just put it in these envelopes and then put like a wax seal for not safe forwork.
Okay, DM me that.

(01:17:39):
Yeah, cause I was like, I'm gonna know the artist, but you don't have to say it, if youdon't want to say it on here, you can just tell us after we step over.
the artist is my cousin.
She's a fantastic artist, but she doesn't take commissions.
So I had to like fight her.
to hide the hosuek!
She's a fantastic artist.
want that getting out.
She just...

(01:18:01):
She ain't trying to get put out to church.
We're her dibbichus.
she doesn't.
She didn't take commissions for a reason because she's like, look, I'm trying to makemoney.
And she's like, I know you're not gonna give me like a million changes, so fine.
But she was like, I'm not, cause she used to take commissions at first and she had acouple of nightmare clients that taught her.
She's like.

(01:18:21):
There's always one that ruins it for everybody else.
And so I called her and I was like, you're my cousin.
So you're gonna do this.
So what we're gonna do is, and you're gonna do that.
tell her I'm good.
Tell her I pay on time and I don't ask for money.
Listen, tell, yeah.
Listen, like Fat Joe said, yesterday price ain't today's price, baby.
Wherever they say they want, I pay them they money.

(01:18:44):
I put their money in their hand up front.
up front, take it, take it from me.
I mean, the art thing, I mean, it's so fascinating because there's some artists that Ilove that I'll see and I'm like, oh my God, I love their art.
And then like, you'll see them, like, I saw one that Katie Robert had because she's a lotlike a monster romance.
And then like, I see the artist and I keep following the artist and I see other thingsthat they do and they do great like monster stuff, like alien stuff.

(01:19:10):
Like it's very, like they're very, very good.
And then you see someone hires them because someone thinks like me and it's like, oh myGod, I love their style.
I'm gonna use them for contemporary.
And then you see the contemporary and you're like.
Yeah.
That motherfucker needs ears, elf ears.
And two days, right?
And you're like, you can tell that like, they're not in their comfort zone.

(01:19:33):
And so.
been getting them to draw fat girls the way fat girls like she should be plumper you knowshe needs a bigger like the proportions are proportionate
have to give them, I mean, I, okay, so I'm gonna give you what I was told from KenyaWright, cause she used to have, she has had like a lot of like artwork and stuff and she's

(01:20:02):
like, you have to provide the exact image.
And so for my cousin, cause I was like, well, here are the pages.
And she was like, I'm not reading all that.
She's like, no, I can't, but I need to visually, she's like, who do they look like?
So I had to send her like, I'm like, oh.
Like every romance hero, he's Henry Cavill.
I was like, well, she is more Yara Shaheed.
And she's like, all right, cool.
And then she's like, what do you want in this scene?
And I was like, just read these pages.

(01:20:23):
And she was like, just tell me.
And I was like, ah!
So like, can you write?
She was like, she goes, well, it sucks that Tumblr's gone.
But she's like, get a corn with a pea clip of the exact body type, whatever you're lookingfor.
get that clip and send it to the artist.

(01:20:43):
I'm gonna do this.
Ah, okay.
No, this is bad.
everybody looks how you want them to look and they're doing what you want them to do.
Well, I need that book so I can have that picture, baby.
Ha ha.
Yeah
Actually, I'm about, I'm doing my store stuff today, so I'll be...
your money today.

(01:21:03):
Don't worry about it.
doing my store stuff today, so that special edition paperback is going to be up in my upin my store probably by this weekend.
Okay, so...
Okay, well to that point, I know we are going over our time, so I do wanna bring it to aclose.
But what I'd like for you to tell us, I know you have acquisition coming out in May, whatelse are you working on?

(01:21:30):
And then also tell us where people can go to follow you, find you online, and all thatgood stuff.
all the places.
I'm working on
overview of TakeOver because we didn't even talk about that yet.
Yeah.
so Take Over.
Take Over is an arranged marriage, King Arthur retelling.

(01:21:51):
So if you like Arthurian legend, I am doing my take like King Arthur but make abillionaire black girl.
So it's an arranged marriage.
Gwen and Atticus, when Atticus is trying to acquire like a portion of Gwen's father'scompany, he says, cool, but you have to marry my daughter.
And he's like, I've seen your daughter.
Now Gwen is like, no thanks, I'm not interested.

(01:22:13):
And he's like, that's cute.
You're going to be mine.
And that man from the moment he decided he's going to marry her is like, my wife, my wife,my wife, my wife, my wife.
And she's like, not yet, bitch.
And he's like, oh no, you mine.
And so watching them do that, like entanglement is hilarious.
But like it really, like, if you love King Arthur, like Merlin is in there, Percival is inthere, Gawain is in there, like, and their names are, you can tell from their names who

(01:22:40):
they are.
And obviously I could, Arthur is just not sexy.
So we couldn't.
So we had to.
And so Atticus is the name and Gwen I kept the name.
And so I really love it.
It's gone back to my clickhanger style.
That's just a very easy style for me to do.

(01:23:01):
It's must see television.
You have to come back to like watch the next episode.
That's really how I liked it.
Like it just, I like telling stories like that.
that compel you that you are so engrossed in the story that you're like, oh my God, oh myGod, that you have to come back.
Like back in the 80s, like who shot JR, what?
You're right!

(01:23:22):
you were gonna die if you didn't find out and we won't be tied to you if someone spoiledit for you.
So, I mean, so it was really like, I love that style of story talk.
So take over is a cliffhanger.
But it also just lets me tell like a different kind of emotional story.
If you ask me now, I think that my roads were too long, quite frankly, because theyreached into like a hundred thousand more territory, 110.

(01:23:47):
And that was too long for me to even I had to keep at the end.
But the stories have filled it.
It's not like nothing happens, like so much happens, but don't let me get in there with asuspense storyline because I'm gonna be like, and then this happened and then that
happened.
And so for me, I experienced fatigue writing them at the end, by the end, by the time Igot to the villain, I was so tired.

(01:24:09):
So, and I was like, oh, I miss, it's like I've written a whole three movies in one, andI'm like, ugh, and that was very tiring.
So I do love that kind of storytelling.
So for me, Takeover is just like,
It was just really delicious to like really sit in these characters.
And because it's like the legend that I love so much, like I don't usually do retellings.

(01:24:31):
And so like doing a retelling that I like, I could get behind, I was like Arthurianretelling.
Yes.
And it's just very, very sexy, very, very spicy Atticus.
Like he's very cold at the start.
And he's just like, he's just like very cold alpha kind of brutal billionaire.
But then like, you know, he sees her and he's like.
He's like, how much do we give them in his brother's like 200K?

(01:24:53):
And he was like, make it 30 mil, like something insane, you know, like big billionaireenergy.
And so that's, that's Atticus.
And he's got a filthy mouth on him because Gwen is always like, use your words,communicate.
And so he's like, no, I'm going to use my words, huh?
And that's, and that's, that's.

(01:25:13):
That's.
billionaire, little psychopathic, listen, say less.
You ain't got to say nothing else.
And then with that picture.
yeah.
I mean, he, and he is a jealous little bitch sometimes.
Like he, there is a Lance a lot type of character.
His name is Lance.
And so he, every time we see Lance around her, he, it's not a love triangle, anyone who'slike, I don't know.

(01:25:41):
But every time he sees Lance, he is not happy about it.
And if Lance is sniffing around Gwen, he is unhappy about it.
And when he gets unhappy,
He uses his mouth and his fingers and his, well, you get the idea.
So he, yeah, he makes himself known that like that's his, he does not play by Gwen, anyonewho hurts Gwen is not gonna end up walking for very long.

(01:26:05):
So I really love him.
And just like that, their relationship just like, and how they start to like, just likework around each other.
Like I think it's actually really beautiful.
I'm not too heavy on the angst, but there's a little angst like, come on, you guys get ittogether.
But book two acquisition is a lot more angsty because, you know, I had to end up acliffhanger and make it.

(01:26:26):
No.
a duet or you gonna...
It's a trilogy.
Yeah, it's like we've never met, that's weird.
Listen, I would listen.
I struggle, I struggle.
You know, only for you and Sierra, I keep wanting to say her real name, do I do thesemultiple book series, these series, okay?

(01:26:51):
Very rarely, because your writing can hold up, you know, cause some people by the time youget to the second book, you be like, okay, you could have, this could have all happened in
book one sis.
Yeah.
But you keep it going because you had an intrigue and all of that because that's what youkeep coming back for.

(01:27:13):
So I love that.
But I was just hoping, you know, maybe we could go and get it on out and then for thesummer.
super cute.
That's great.
I don't know why you're delusional, but okay, cool.
I mean, everyone's entitled to their delusions.
Listen, I'm a stand alone girl.
I'm right about stand alone.
That's all I
See, I love a good series.
Like, I wanna be in it.
Like, raw it out.

(01:27:35):
Only for Nana is only for Nana in Sierra, Samoan and maybe not really know maybe nobodyelse really like Like like the holly black I did like I'm in I've gotten into fence.
Let me ask you this Nana Are you going to and I know you got to go but do you?

(01:27:56):
Are you exploring writing romantic or anything fantasy at all?
Because I know that's a big push in the industry right now.
no, I mean, I like reading some of it.
It's not really my steez, but I probably will go, I mean, I'm definitely, I'm working on aparanormal series that's gonna be under a pen name.

(01:28:17):
And then I have an idea for something more, I guess it'll be more new adulty, but that'sbeen like on my back burner for a long time.
that will be like in that realm, I guess.
But exploring like, you know, African mythology and, you know, like incubus and all ofthat kind of stuff.

(01:28:44):
I think like that one's been in my head and I'm like, ah.
And I just, I'm like desperate to write that, but I'll finally have a little bit of spaceand time in the next few months.
As to where to find me, because Moni was like, let's wrap this up.
Hehehehe
you can find me, um, uh, all the usual social media places, Instagram, Facebook.

(01:29:08):
I am on Tik TOK, but sort of, um, Instagram, Facebook, I'm more on Instagram than anythingelse.
So not a Malone writer, Facebook, not Malone writer for my page and not a Malone sassyreaders for my group.
Um, and, uh, Tik TOK is either.
I have a lot of Tik TOK accounts.
So cause
I'd be getting shadow bands so fast.

(01:29:29):
Nana Malone writer, Nana Malone writer, Nana Malone one or Nana from Ghana.
Either way, if you type in Nana Malone, they all come up.
And then in terms of like where to find me, like where to get my books, my books are wide.
So they're available at your favorite vendor.
Your favorite vendor should be me shopnana Malone.com.

(01:29:50):
So shopnana Malone.com is where you should be getting all of your books from.
But if you must,
Get them elsewhere.
Apple, Amazon, Apple, Nook, Google, Kobo.
And my people who were like, oh, but I only read on KU.
You can do Kobo Plus.
It's 9.99 and you get all, you can read audio and ebook for cheaper than the cost of KU.

(01:30:17):
And you get, yeah.
time I heard?
Okay, let me.
know that?
Yeah.
I didn't know you could get audio too, because you know I have turned into an audio girlynow.
Yeah.
Yeah, you can get audio too, it's great.
And they don't require exclusivity so the authors get paid better.
Yeah, we need Amazon need to stop that but we'll talk off.

(01:30:37):
We'll do because look
but.
I could sit here and talk to the cows come home.
It's the producer in me that's like, ooh, you're running over the...
busy running her empire instead of like...
because we thank you so much for giving us because I realized when we sent the Calendlyinvite it only had like 30 minutes and I was like, Yeah.

(01:31:00):
It's okay.
She's like, oh, that's the we'll just get that one.
Can you
I was like, is it a podcast?
I was like, that's hilarious, okay.
Yeah, that was an error on my part.
Yeah, no, that was always meant to be an hour.
Of course.
of your schedule, dropping gyms and being your fabulous self.

(01:31:22):
Yes, I know we love this because we always want this to feel like authentic and like we'rejust having a conversation And this has been so juicy and so much fun
Yeah, thank you guys so much for having me.
I had a blast, I had fun.
Hopefully I said something that helped somebody somewhere.
And if not, just go get Dirty Takeover.
It'll be up in the store hopefully by this weekend.

(01:31:43):
Awesome
Thank you so much.
Thank you guys.
Have a great day.
You too!