Julie Francom, a birth photographer, discusses the power of photography in preparing for and processing birth. She shares her journey into birth photography and the importance of capturing empowering moments during labor. Julie highlights the strength and resilience she has witnessed in birthing women and the impact of documenting those moments. She emphasizes the value of birth photography in helping women prepare mentally for birth and process their birth experiences. Julie also provides tips for capturing birth memories, even without a professional photographer, and encourages women to educate themselves about their birth options.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction to Julie Francom and Birth Photography 04:42 The Pros of Having a Birth Photographer 08:53 Capturing Empowering Moments in Birth 29:58 Documenting Birth Memories 35:19 Educating Yourself about Birth Options
RESOURCES Child Whisperer - Carol Tuttle Fun loving, Sensitive, Determined, More Serious “When you understand your child’s energy type, you can tailor your parenting to meet their needs and strengths, creating a harmonious and supportive environment.” Julie's Photography Maternity Clothing Baby Gear
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
It's the Best Birth Podcast, wherewe interview experts that elevate
you as you prepare your heartand mind to have the best birth.
Each episode will interviewprofessionals so you are prepared
for pregnancy, birth, and postpartum.
Our experts will build your confidenceand empower you to trust your
intuition throughout your pregnancy.
This audio is takenfrom videos on YouTube.
(00:27):
Watch the entire episodes onYouTube at Birth Made Mindful.
Welcome to the Best Birth Podcast.
We are here today with Julie Francomwith Julie Francom birth photography,
and we are so excited to talk abouthow photography can actually help
us to prepare and process our birth.
Julie is a birth photographerand videographer.
(00:48):
She is a ride or die hype girland loves capturing laughter
and connections between people.
More than that, her favorite is capturingwomen in empowering ways, whether
at birth, bordeaux, shower sessions.
or even headshots.
She often edits photos while listeningto musical soundtracks, Hamilton and
Newsies are her current faves, she's areality TV junkie addicted to caffeine and
(01:11):
doesn't do anything productive until itis after 10 a Her core values are honesty,
loyalty, and integrity and she is aboveall fiercely loyal to those in her circle.
Julie is an Enneagram 3, the achiever andwill not stop entering birth photography
competitions until she wins an award.
I know I actually won, my goodness.
(01:32):
Since they're on my bio.
Update.
Yeah.
I need to update.
Anyways.
Congratulations.
Yeah.
She is a validationseeker all day, every day.
At some point, if we talk much, thetopic will surely turn to mental health
as she has done a ton of emotional andself work over the last three years.
All of her best advice usuallycomes out of a therapy session.
Same.
She attended, she attended at somepoint, find out more about Julie at
(01:56):
JulieFrankham .com and thank you Julie.
Yeah.
Tell us more!
I just want to know how yougot into photography and
specifically newborn photography.
Yeah, birth photography.
Birth photography, sorry.
Yeah, no, for sure.
I love that.
I just copied and pasted a bio, but yeah,I won an award in January this year.
So super excited about that.
Tell us more first.
Is that in a magazine?
Was that online?
That's a great question.
So there's a international birthphotographers group called...
my gosh.
(02:17):
International Association ofProfessional Birth Photographers, IAPVP.
And so they do a worldwide birthphotography competition every year.
And I've entered every yearand never won, which is fine.
It's hard.
It is hard because it'severywhere, everywhere.
Germany, people from Argentina,everywhere in Europe.
(02:39):
Of course, Canada and the UnitedStates are entering these competitions.
But I always, because I have an Enneagram3 , I need the words ... give me
all the recognition, all the praise,like that is just my personality.
If I'm not number one, then I'malways like, you know, which is fine.
But also therapy helps manage that.
But I want to, so they dodifferent categories and then
(03:04):
they do three different awardsin each category and then they do
a people's choice for each category.
and which is all the other photographersthat are members of the International
Association of Professional BirthPhotographers vote for their favorite.
So it's a really limited group and it'sall of the other birth photographers who
are in their front lines doing the work.
(03:25):
And I won a People's Choice Award.
I won the category for favoriteof all the birth photographers.
Will you paint the picture for ourlisteners of what that picture looks like?
Yeah, I sure can.
So is it a home birth and momhad her baby on her chest.
And the category isactually birth details.
And so she's actually, like, it'sfrom above, down, and so she's
(03:48):
actually holding onto the amnioticsac and, like, inspecting it.
And it's, like, three o'clock in the morning.
It's just a corner lightcoming from the living room.
And yeah, just, like, and really moody.
And she's just, like,admiring her amniotic sac.
Her baby was born en caul.
So they're like...
So you can't really seeany faces or anything.
You can see like the top of her, likefor her nose down, but the, in the, and
(04:10):
she's still in the water and the babyfuzzy hair and everything like that.
And tell us what does it meanto be born and call in call?
Yes.
That's a great question.
So en caul is, when the waterdoesn't break before the baby's born.
And so the baby's born in the sack.
So like the amniotic sack iscovering the head and face still.
It's separate.
It's really fast.
Like it separates really quickly afterthe baby's born usually, but yeah.
(04:33):
Pretty cool.
If you're a great photographer, you canactually capture it before it happens.
And sometimes if you're a greatphotographer, you also need
a little bit of luck becauseeverything happens so fast.
You need a little bit of luckand a little bit of skill and a
lot of skill and a lot of luck.
And then you come in an award.
Yes.
Well, I apologize for theway I misspoke earlier.
I have just always thought of newbornphotography and I know plenty of
people do birth photography, but Ihad never really thought of it myself.
So.
In thinking about that, what are thepros of having a birth photographer?
(04:54):
Yeah, I love that.
I think, first of all, I justwant to do a little tangent.
I'm full of tangents.
I tangent all the time.
usually when I tell people I'ma birth photographer, I'll get
like one of three reactions.
First, first, yeah.
First is like, Ooh, I wouldwant pictures of that.
You know, they imagine likecrowning shots and blood and like
documentary, like TLC type stuff.
(05:15):
other people are like curious.
They'd be like, okay.
That sounds weird, but also kind of cool.
And they're a little curious orthe third one is like, my gosh,
I had a birth photographer.
I've always wanted to know when they knowexactly what it is and what it means.
And I feel like you probably havea good mix of that for people who's
listening to this episode and belike, I'm not quite sure what that
is or that sounds really gross.
(05:37):
and there definitely are peoplewho want the crowning shots and all
of that, which I don't even know.
I love a good crowning shot.
It's pretty, pretty powerful,but also it's about like the.
beauty and the connection that youexperience as you labor, the joy on
your face and your partner's facewhen you meet your baby for the first
time, capturing, especially for avideo, capturing those first cries,
(05:58):
the first words you ever say to yourbaby, I'm getting chills right now.
I never get chills.
The first words your partner sayto the baby, the environment and
the challenge sometimes you gothrough in labor is you struggle or
work hard to bring that baby here.
And everybody works hard, no matterif you have an epidural, if you're
unmedicated, you're breathing athome, you have a scheduled C -section.
Your birth takes acompletely untwisted turn.
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I mean, there's just so much strength andpower no matter how it unfolds and having
somebody there that really knows howto document that experience while still
being mindful and respectful of all of themoving parts that are happening is really
important and really powerful and canhelp you prepare mentally for your birth.
(06:42):
It can help you process.
a crazy birth experience, especiallyif it took a way that you didn't
want it to go, or if you havea little bit of trauma from it.
And yeah, sorry, I think Iforgot what your question was.
No, you totally, I feel like answered it.
Yeah.
I was just talking about thepros of having a photographer.
And I feel like until you hear aboutit, until you see it, you don't
really know what you're missing.
Sarah has shown me some of her birthvideos and yeah, they made me cry.
(07:06):
You know, they are, they can betastefully done or, you know,
what, to what degree you want.
Some people want all of it, right?
They're like, give me all my, I'mgoing to be naked and give me all my,
and other people are like, I reallywant you to keep me super modest and
a good skilled birth photographer isgoing to know how to do that, right?
They're going to know all the rightangles to take and how to, and be
mindful of all those things while stillhaving a solid understanding of the
(07:27):
birth process and what is expected.
Although I say expected very looselybecause I don't trust babies.
babies are tricky and stinky all the time.
And, but like, you know, there's certainthings you can kind of anticipate
and, and move with and move around.
So I have a whole big variety of allthe people that have all the different
comfort levels and that's okay.
It's so impressive to me thata birth photographer can take
(07:49):
those moments of struggle.
And then when they actually put them intothe video, it's a moment of strength.
Yeah.
Well, that's what it is.
All like struggle, struggleis how you get to be strong.
Nothing becomes strong by doing.
easy things.
Like you think about your muscles, yourrelationships, any type of learning,
any type of skill, it takes pressureand tension and everything like that
(08:12):
in order to grow and become strong.
So of course, I think it's really easy.
I know for me, I had, I didn't havebirth photography and video with my
first, which is my biggest regret,but I had it for my last three.
And how I felt in my head and howit translated outward, sometimes
there's big disconnects in that.
And being able to look back andsee the reality, like what really
(08:35):
happened, what I really sounded like,how annoying my husband was not,
you know, those types of things.
Like, you were actually pretty good.
so cool.
Bonus points for thehusbands who hang in there.
For sure.
I feel like we don't getto see those parts a lot.
We hear about them after, or we see theend result, but we don't see the struggle.
(08:55):
We don't see the, the moments in between.
So it's, you're able to capturethat and have that as a memory.
I think that's a reallygood point actually.
Can I speak more to that?
Yeah, for sure.
Birth takes you very internal, right?
Especially if you're goingunmedicated, you don't have
epidural or anything like that.
And you don't notice thethings going on outside of you.
(09:16):
And...
I'm a really big detail person.
I want all the details.
I want to know what the hands are doing.
I want to see what the feet are doing.
I want to see what's going on, theconversations other people are having,
how other people, I like taking picturesof people sending text message updates
about the birth, things like that.
And you don't get to see thosethings when you're the birther.
Some of my favorite parts, I'll tellyou my two favorite parts from my
(09:38):
birth videos is one of them is my two-year -old at the time opened the door
to my bedroom and he had a fart gun.
And he...
push the fart gun so it made a fart noise.
I was completely oblivious.
I had no idea.
I was in the middle ofa contraction, I think.
And I see him opening the doorand making the little fart
gun go and everybody laughed.
It was so cute.
I completely was unaware of that.
And then another one is my mom holding myniece and they were playing downstairs.
(10:00):
So I was lingering upstairs and itwas so cool to see the little things
that were going on either in my roomor outside of my room that I was
just completely oblivious to and allthe memories that were being made.
They get to stay thereand I get to see them.
because I have that documented andI think it's just so beautiful.
I look at my birth videos morethan I look at my wedding.
(10:20):
I feel like it's more important.
Can I like say an unpopular opinion?
Birth photos and video are moreimportant than wedding photos and video.
I think it's a bigger day.
I think it's more important andthings that you're going to want to
remember probably more and stronger.
And I don't know.
That's my unpopular opinion.
But you also, you also need todocument it because when you're in
labor, that's the place you should be.
(10:42):
You should be in labor land.
And so should your partner.
Your partner shouldn't be focusing ongetting pictures for you and making
recordings and things like that.
They should be focused on youand what you need and how best to
serve you and not like trying todocument with their cell phones.
But what a precious memory that you cango back and then see everything that you
(11:02):
missed while you were doing the importantthing, laboring, bringing your baby about.
Well, you can see how strong you are.
Like how often do we get to seefrom the outside our strength?
It's so easy.
We as women, especially like in ourculture right now, it's so easy for us
to sit down, play ourselves, for us to,you know, have that negative feedback and
(11:23):
that negative self -talk and, and justbe, and don't, and not think that we're
as big of a deal as we actually are.
But then you get to go back and watch youworking through these really hard moments.
And then that sudden shift as you meetyour baby and all those big changes,
I think it's really empowering.
I had a client once who duringher labor, she kept saying,
I've done hard things before.
(11:45):
And a lot of times we just say, we tellourselves like in a model, like I can
do hard things, I can do hard things.
We probably all said that to ourselves.
But she said, I have done hard things.
And I love the reframing of that because,
It's basically like, Hey, Ihave a proven track record.
Like I can do this because I've donehard things like this before and
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made it through and made it throughand being able to look through
that and see that perspective.
And remember not only the joy andhappiness, but also how you powered
through and, and, and made it,you know, is really kind of cool.
What are some of the other demonstrationsof strength that you have seen as
you've been in these birth situations?
my gosh.
So,
(12:26):
I guess we never talked about how Igot started into birth photography.
I guess I was on a question,but we kind of, I don't know.
I tangented away from that,I think, but I started out as
a doula about nine years ago.
And I was a doula for about six yearsbefore I added birth photography in.
And I've done over 120 births so farbetween doula and birth photography.
(12:48):
And I had two babies alsoin between that as well.
And.
man, what are some of the,
my gosh, all this strength andstruggle and empowerment and things.
There's so much, like there's just somuch from just really long labors and
having to be able to adapt to that andbeing completely exhausted and people
(13:12):
not thinking that they could go anymoreto actually going more and having, you
know, seeing partners be really emotional.
when they're watching theirpartner who is birthing struggle.
And sometimes they don't know how tohandle that or how to approach that or
the best way to, nobody likes seeingthe one they love in pain or miserable.
(13:35):
So
just having to change plans or makedecisions or sometimes there's a
big transformation that happens inlabor when a big change needs to be
made and you're fighting it, right?
Like if you're at home and you'retransferring to the hospital.
and you don't want to becausethat's not your birth plan.
(13:56):
And sometimes we get so rigid in ourthinking for our birth plans, right?
But then you have to transfer.
That takes a lot of strength and a lot ofthinking when you're in a very vulnerable
place where you don't feel strong andyou don't feel like you're thinking
very well because labor land is hard.
And being able to see people,you're kind of forced in that
situation to make a big decisionsometimes emits a lot of struggle.
(14:23):
in opposition from the outside and it'sreally cool to see that thing happen
and that change shift when people justdo it, like they're at their very,
they're very most vulnerable and they'revery weakest and they're still making
decisions that take a lot of grit anda lot of strength and you, and they
(14:43):
don't think they have it in them.
And then they muster it up andthey do have it in, they either,
you know, push their baby outor make the decision to fly.
I say fly like is in fast not fly tothe hospital and I don't know it's just
I can't think of one specific exampleof strength well I can think of many
so I'm having a hard time choosing one.
(15:04):
I saw a mom once at a home birth whoI thought she was on transition when
I got there at 10 and by three shesaw on her baby and she was pushing
and trying and working hard in thebirth pool and it's home birth and
her midwife was there and she was
roaring and fighting and
to an outside person you wouldthink she was just losing
(15:26):
her mind how she was acting.
And she was like hitting her fistson tables and me and the rest of
the birth team were just like, I'mnot quite sure how to handle this.
Because sometimes as many births asyou see, they will still surprise you.
But she didn't want any cervical checks.
She had a key word in case shewanted to transfer to the hospital.
(15:47):
She
was very, very firm in howshe wanted her birth to go.
And her midwife kept asking her, like,we're not sure if you should be pushing.
We've been pushing.
Should we do a cervical check?
She said no.
The midwives respectedher, all of those things.
And then after hours likethis, she finally said, yes,
(16:07):
let's do a cervical check.
And then the midwives checked her andshe wasn't fully dilated, but she had
been pushing this whole time in the pool.
And we were all this like,
Not quite sure what to do here.
And so she didn't want to go to hospitalfor epidural or anything like that.
And this was a VBAC too.
She had had a C -section.
So she wanted a completelydifferent experience.
(16:29):
Her first was also a home birth transfer.
And so we just keptletting her labor hard.
And her husband, her sweet littlehusband kept saying he thought he saw
the head coming out because he's justcompletely oblivious for, because
you know, like the labia separatesand all sorts of things going on.
That's not the head, but itis foreign when you don't.
see it before and anyways, she wasstruggling and at one point she almost
(16:53):
pulled me into the birth pool for theroot -use sort of contraction and then
like grabbed onto me and like kind of sunkdown, like just dead weight dropped and
it was just really wild but then she gotto the hospital, we transferred to the
hospital in the middle of a rainstorm,it was pouring rain, I was running to
my car and trying to keep all my gearsafe and everything and we like sped
down the way to the hospital becauseI thought we were going to have a...
car birth so I was like speeding byand I'm like I want a document of
(17:15):
car birth and we get there and thehospital didn't receive us very well.
She ended up getting an epiduraland then the baby's heart rate
started doing not so well so theytook her back for a C -section and
this was at an IHC hospital so ofcourse nobody's allowed in the OR and...
(17:36):
But I sent my camera back with a dadand dad took pictures, but the cord was
wrapped around baby's neck four times.
Not, not neck, neck and body four times.
And they had to cut the cord before theycould even take baby out by C -section.
So normally cord around neckand body, not a problem.
Slip it over the head once baby's born.
Not really emergency,but everyone's smile is.
(17:58):
And this poor mom had been pushing sohard and that baby was not coming out.
It was not going to come outno matter how long she pushed.
And so.
she had to go through quite the processwhile she was in labor and working so
hard and her body was trying to descendand dilate and bring baby down and it
wasn't working and it couldn't work.
And so she had to go through that processwhile still going through all the physical
(18:25):
sensations of a body that is both workingwith her and against her at the same time.
And...
just listening to her afterwardsprocess and talk about the birth
experience and how validating
it was for her to be the one tocall all the shots and have a birth
(18:45):
team that allowed her to do that.
And even the hospital doctors werelike, starting to be like, well,
you're kind of worried about baby.
And they didn't do a C -sectionuntil she consented to it.
Her outcome was still a C -section.
But the process was so different for her.
And to watch her heal and processthrough that a second time when she
(19:07):
had such a hard time the first timebecause she was the one in control.
And she had that documentation, both videoand photos, showing her her whole process
helped her to really move through thatby viewing it and by also being the one
to be in control of the birth the wholetime, as much as control as we have.
(19:27):
I guess during the birth, becausewe know that sometimes you just have
to play with the cards you're dealt.
And sometimes those cards thatyou're dealt are not very fun.
So yeah, I don't know.
I love this story of someonewho was able to process their
birth through your photography.
What about preparing for labor?
How can you use kind of like some birthvideos or some birth photography to
(19:48):
help us get into a state of mind anda physical state where we're excited
and anticipatory towards the event.
Yeah, I absolutely love that.
And I love that question.
And I, the more I do this, the moreI really see, and it sounds probably
weird, like how would you use birthphotography to prepare for birth?
But there's a few different ways.
Like, first of all, I think by hiringa birth photographer, it shifts your
(20:12):
mindset into thinking about how you reallywant your birth to go and look and feel.
I've had many clients at when myclients are 36 weeks, I send out
a questionnaire about their birth,like who's on your birth team.
What do you want your birth to look like?
What sounds and what sensoryissues are you thinking?
What's really importantfor me to capture for you?
(20:33):
What things do you think you willwant to remember a few years down
the road and things like that?
And I've had a few clients tell me thatlike, wow, I really hadn't thought about
some of these things until you asked me.
And I'm actually glad you askedme because I didn't know that this
existed or I didn't know I couldask for that or I hadn't thought
about these different things.
And I feel like it kind of...
(20:54):
just by hiring a birth photographer, butalso if you have a good one that will
ask you questions like that, can help youget into a mindset where you're preparing
more, where you are more mindful of thethings that are coming into your space.
You're more mindful of your providerand what they're gonna do and what their
plans are for you and how your plansdo or do not align with those things.
(21:15):
So I feel like justthat big mindset shift,
especially at the end of pregnancy,can be really helpful and important.
as you walk into it.
I also think that by looking at, like ifyou're, I think this is really important
for first time moms too, but also I thinkfor second, third and fourth time moms
that have had documentation from theirprior births, going back, especially birth
(21:38):
videos are really, really cool because alot of first time moms, I mean we don't,
every first time mom, you can prepare allyou want, but actually going through it is
so different and it's gonna be unexpected,even if you're on your fifth baby.
Babies trick you, they surprise you.
I say I don't trust babiesall the time, they're little
stinkers, they do what they want.
And they can just, it'sjust so unpredictable.
(22:00):
But by going and watching avariety of birth videos, I
think photos are really great.
I love the power that cancome in a single image.
But that image is like my flash,usually I keep it on one over 200 or
one over 160, which what that means isone, one 60th of a second, one 200th.
(22:20):
of a second is what's captured.
So it's not even a second,it's a fraction of a second.
And that is really cool to havethat still image and it's really
fun to see all the different, Imean, it's just really powerful.
But when you have the video with it,you can like go through and see how
labor evolves and you can see how manyvariations of normal they are, how
(22:43):
some people are quiet as they bringtheir babies here, how some people
are really loud and strong and verbal.
how some people birth their babiesstanding up or on the toilet at a
toilet birth on New Year's Eve, howsome people deliver in bed and with an
epidural or on their hands and knees.
All of those differentvariations are of normal.
And it can help you really hone in whatyour preferences are and what you want.
(23:07):
I remember when I was preparingfor my first VBAC at home,
there was this birth video.
I can't remember what it's callednow, but it's on my playlist.
But that's how I envisioned my birth.
I'm like, in the pool, Iwant my husband behind me.
We're gonna catch baby up.
And I'm like, this is what I want.
This is absolutely what I want.
When it came down to it, I did notwant my husband in the pool with me.
(23:27):
And he was so grateful, becausehe did not want to get in.
But he was going to, forme, because he loves me.
But also, I had watched many moreto prepare, and I'm like, it's okay
if he's not in the pool with me.
But I had that vision.
I knew what I wanted, because...
I was able to watch a wholevariety of different situations.
On a little side note, I think it's reallybeautiful when siblings are there and
(23:50):
people have different views on whetheror not, or whether they think siblings
in the birth space is cool or not cool.
I think it's amazing.
I think it's really fun.
I think it helps normalize birthfor this younger generation.
And I think it allows them to formmemories around birth that are not
traumatic, like we all grew up with.
But when people say, hey,
(24:11):
I want my five year old or three year oldor whoever year old in the space with me.
What do you suggest I doto help them be ready?
Because I'm scared thatI'm going to terrify them.
I say, watch birth videos with them.
And when these moms are making loudnoises and roaring their babies or
(24:31):
in invisible pain sometimes, you cansay, hey, look how strong she is.
Look how hard she's workingto bring her baby here.
I'm gonna be just like that.
So when you see me making thesenoises, you can know how strong I
am and how hard I'm working to bringyour baby brother or sister here.
And I think that's really cool.
(24:53):
And I feel like it helps these kids know.
I feel like it's gonna helpnormalize birth and change birth
for the better as we grow up.
Like my daughter, side note,tangent again, my daughter's seven.
She has a boyfriend.
She's going into third grade.
She'll be eight soon.
And...
They go on kid dates at recessand hold hands and it's super
(25:15):
cute the way she talks about it.
When I grew up and marry him and wehave babies, he wants me to have my
babies in the hospital, but I wantto have them at home like you did.
And I was like, okay.
I was like, that's a problem, isn't it?
And she's like, yeah, so I think,I don't know, maybe I'll have
my babies in the hospital, butmaybe I'll have them at home.
And I was like, well, do you know what?
I think if you want to have yourbabies at home, then you're the boss
(25:37):
of your body, and you're the onewho's pushing a baby out, and so
you get the say of what you can do.
And if you want to marry this dude whenyou're 27 and old enough to get married,
because you're not getting marriedbefore, anyways, she's eight or seven.
And it's very hard for meto envision that right now.
But.
(25:59):
you're gonna have to have a hardconversation with him and he's
gonna have to get on board with you.
And it's just reallycute how they do that.
Or like when they draw, my two girls,one is six and one is seven, and
they all draw pictures of moms havingbabies and it's always in the tub.
And they drew pictures of mein the tub and then there's two
of them floating in the water.
Like they're a year and a halfapart so they weren't even born at
(26:19):
the same time but they're both likefloating in the water being born.
It's just so cute.
And that's the vision that they have.
Because every year, we watch theirbirth videos on their birthday.
We go through everybody's birthdayon everybody's birth videos on
everybody's birthday becausethey always want to see theirs.
And for my oldest, who I don't haveprofessionally, then we took some
cell phone pictures and little thingslike that and we go through those.
(26:41):
And it's so cool.
And they always say, hey, do youremember in your birth video, or do
you remember when Owen said, get thepoop out of the birth pool water?
That was so funny.
And they had these really cool memoriesof the day that they were born.
That is so special and so valuable.
And they get to see the joy onour faces when we receive them
(27:02):
and the sounds and the excitementthat we had when we met them.
And I think that's just so irreplaceable.
It's like, I'm a really nostalgic person.
So I just think of like thesebirth stories, they're heirlooms.
You get to pass thesedown for generations.
And, and can you imagine like, I knowthat when our grandparents were having
babies, these wasn't a thing, butlike, can you imagine if you could see
(27:23):
your, your grandma meeting your mom?
Like that's so cool.
I don't know.
Anyways.
I love that.
I love how you make it so individualizedand how it is similar to a birth
plan when you get that questionnaire.
And for you.
Are you there the whole birthor does it depend on the woman?
Is that one of the questions?
Are you there only in activelabor or the whole thing?
(27:43):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So, everybody's a little bit different,but my general, like if I were to have
a textbook answer, it would be like, Ilike to be there from six centimeters on
when you're in active labor until likeone to two hours after the baby's born.
Now for first time mom, yeah, I'll, I'llgo when they're about six centimeters,
(28:04):
unless labor is progressing really fast.
I'll go sooner.
because usually first timemoms take a little bit longer.
Although I did miss the first birthby eight minutes, just a few months
ago, because she went from threecenturies to baby in two hours.
So this is why I don't trust babies.
but yeah, if they're, if they have ahistory of fast birth, I want to head
out as soon as you know, they've hadan hour worth of contractions, because
(28:28):
nothing's worse than missing a birth.
Nothing is worse than it.
And so we just kind of.
keeping communication whenlabor starts and we decide
together when I'm going to come.
And everybody's just a littlebit different sometimes.
So yeah, I usually like to be there todocument active labor through pushing
and then after the baby's born, weget all the newborn exam, all the
(28:48):
documentation, the first moments,nursing if moms choose to breastfeed,
dad holding baby, other siblings meetingbaby if they're at home, all of those
really cool first moments and stuff.
Yeah.
Earlier you mentioned wantingto capture a car birth.
My friend had her fourthbaby in her minivan.
jealous.
(29:09):
Right.
She had gone to the hospital threetimes and they turned her away
and she rushed to the hospital.
She couldn't even make it to her hospital.
So she had to stop at the nearesthospital and it was during COVID.
And so of course the husbandpulled in and they stopped to
ask him the COVID questions.
(29:30):
And meanwhile, she had her baby.
my gosh.
So COVID, you know, but we, she made itthrough and now she takes a picture every
year in the car with him and hopes topass that car onto him when he's older.
my gosh.
Can you imagine having your first date?
yeah.
I was born in this car.
I was born here in backseat.
That's awesome.
(29:53):
We.
want to see all of your birthvideos, just the excitement
that you have for all of these.
I'm like, I should go and look her up soI can see the magic that she's producing.
If you can't have a birth photographeras amazing as you are, what can
you do to capture the memories?
Yeah.
You know what?
birth photography or birthin general is expensive.
(30:16):
It's expensive.
You gotta pay your midwife,your provider, hospital bills.
You gotta hire maybe a doula, abirth photographer, all those things.
And it can rock up really fast.
And not everybody canafford a birth photographer.
Not everybody wants another person intheir space, which is totally fine.
There is lots of things that couldprevent people from wanting one.
(30:39):
Maybe after all of this, they still thinkit's just gross and they don't want it.
But I...
I would highly recommend having somebodybe in charge of taking pictures.
It could be your partner.
We talked about why I think that yourpartner should be the one focusing
on you earlier, but that's okay.
Have your partner take pictures.
(30:59):
Sometimes, if the hospital is slow,you can give your camera to a nurse
to take pictures of both you andyour partner after the baby is born.
I mean, you shouldn't count onthat because it's not always
possible, but sometimes it is.
Even if you have your mother -in -law oryour doula, like when I started out as
a doula, kind of a short answer to whyI became a birth photographer is when
I started out as a doula, because I hadjust been fresh off of my first VBAC and
(31:23):
I had a photographer and a videographerand I knew that everybody, and I still
believe this, everybody deserves a pictureof the first time they see their baby.
Everybody does.
So I would get on my cell phone atthe moment of birth and like snap
away, and take pictures and like...
upload like 500 images to a Google Driveand be like, there's probably like 10
good ones in here, but here you go.
(31:44):
Because everybody deserves that, I think.
And so I would do thatfor all my doula clients.
And then a few years ago, or a fewyears, yeah, a few years ago, I sat
down with a birth photographer friend ofmine who's actually at my fourth birth.
And I was like, I shouldbe a birth photographer.
And she's like, you should.
So I bought a camera and I startedtaking it to my doulaverse.
And it is kind of a really short.
(32:04):
or a short version of a long story.
But I really think that any wayyou can document it, you should.
I feel like if you set up a GoProabove your head, clip onto the
hospital bed above your head and justpush play so you can get video of your
baby coming out, set up a camera ona tripod or something and just have
(32:28):
it take pictures every three secondsor however long, find some way.
I mean we live in this reallycool age where we have cameras
in our pockets everywhere we go.
So
I feel like some people say, wellI don't know if I want it or not.
And I say, you can never seepictures that you didn't take.
(32:49):
So yeah, find a way to find somebody,if you have a camera on a tripod,
give your phone to your doula.
have a nurse try and take it anything.
Yeah.
However you can, howeveryou can make it work.
Do it.
Document that birth.
You should, you just, you should.
I feel so strongly about this.
I love that strength.
And I love that you shared atthe beginning of the episode
(33:10):
that you're an Enneagram three.
Yeah.
I wanted to ask you, have youever read the child whisperer?
no.
It gives types for your children.
yes.
Like is your child sensitive?
Is your child, you know,the fun loving child.
But it made me think ofthe personality type.
If you know yours, then knowingyour kids is a joy as well.
Yeah, that is so cool.
(33:32):
Yeah, I think, yeah, sorry.
What other questions do you have?
Well, we want to know the resourcesthat you would like to share today.
Yeah.
Resources.
You asked me this, didn't you?
End of the question.
Do you remember what my answer was?
to get educated.
yes, okay, so yes, absolutely.
Okay, I remember now.
Yes, get educated.
Whether you're a first time mom or afifth time mom or a tenth time mom, I
feel like there's always more we can know.
And I feel like, I feel likethis is especially maybe
toward the first time moms.
You can never know enough.
(33:52):
There are so many podcasts andInstagram accounts and YouTube channels
and Facebook groups and everythinglike this just dedicated to birth.
However you want to birth.
You want to schedule C -section, cool.
There's a group for that.
There's an Instagram account.
You want to VBAC, cool.
There's lots of good resources for that.
You want unmedicated birth, awesome.
There's so many cool resources for that.
(34:13):
If you want to epidural and do everythingyour doctor says, that's really cool.
There's resources for that.
If you want to...
birth your baby in the woodsnext to a deer with only you,
there's a resource for that.
Get online and figure it outbecause if you don't know what
your options are, you have none.
You don't have any if youdon't know what they are.
And it doesn't matter if you decideto have a completely medicated
(34:37):
birth and that you trust your doctorand you want an epidural and you
want to be induced to 39 weeks.
That's okay if that's whereyou land, but make it a choice.
Make it something that you decided on.
and not something that was toldto you to do because that's where
birth trauma gets introduced.
Birth trauma is less about the endresult of the birth and more about
(34:59):
whether birthing people felt thatthey were seen, safe and heard in
their, and comforted in their birth.
And so learn as much as you can.
And then if you're, and then also ifyour birth takes an unexpected turn,
You are like, yes, I read about this once.
Or that person talked aboutit on this Instagram account.
(35:20):
There's just so many other things.
Immerse yourself in thatworld and have opinions.
Have strong ones.
And it doesn't matter if your birthturns out exactly how you wanted it to
in your perfect world, but it's aboutthe knowledge you learn along the way
that can help guide you when you'rein a spot where you're most vulnerable
and it's easy to be taken advantage of.
(35:42):
even by people that don't knowthey're taking advantage of you
because of your state of mind.
Thank you so much, Julie,for speaking to that.
I love that.
It's so true.
The more we can learn, themore we'll, we'll be informed.
So we have a mom squad secretthat we share each week from
someone in our community.
And this one is from Katie.
She says after birth, I wasmore sore than I expected.
(36:03):
It took about three to four weeksto feel mostly normal again.
Again, just giving our bodytime and learning that was
she was operating from theknowledge she had at that time.
And so the more we gain knowledge,the more we can expect and
anticipate and plan around.
I love that.
Julie, thank you for comingon our podcast today.
We are so excited to go checkout your award winning photo.
(36:25):
We will link that in the show notes.
Yes.
Thank you.
Thanks for joining us on today's episode.
We hope you've been elevated andinspired by this week's expert.
Subscribe today so you never missan episode and please share our
podcast or post on your socialmedia so that other moms and dads
to be can also have the best birth.
(36:45):
Please note that the informationprovided is based on the expert's
insights and personal experience.
It is not intended as medical guidance.
Please seek the advice of yourmedical provider as it applies
to your specific condition.
It's the Best Birth Podcast, wherewe interview experts that elevate
you as you prepare your heartand mind to have the best birth.
Each episode will interviewprofessionals so you are prepared
for pregnancy, birth, and postpartum.
Our experts will build your confidenceand empower you to trust your
intuition throughout your pregnancy.
This audio is takenfrom videos on YouTube.
(00:27):
Watch the entire episodes onYouTube at Birth Made Mindful.
Welcome to the Best Birth Podcast.
We are here today with Julie Francomwith Julie Francom birth photography,
and we are so excited to talk abouthow photography can actually help
us to prepare and process our birth.
Julie is a birth photographerand videographer.
(00:48):
She is a ride or die hype girland loves capturing laughter
and connections between people.
More than that, her favorite is capturingwomen in empowering ways, whether
at birth, bordeaux, shower sessions.
or even headshots.
She often edits photos while listeningto musical soundtracks, Hamilton and
Newsies are her current faves, she's areality TV junkie addicted to caffeine and
(01:11):
doesn't do anything productive until itis after 10 a Her core values are honesty,
loyalty, and integrity and she is aboveall fiercely loyal to those in her circle.
Julie is an Enneagram 3, the achiever andwill not stop entering birth photography
competitions until she wins an award.
I know I actually won, my goodness.
(01:32):
Since they're on my bio.
Update.
Yeah.
I need to update.
Anyways.
Congratulations.
Yeah.
She is a validationseeker all day, every day.
At some point, if we talk much, thetopic will surely turn to mental health
as she has done a ton of emotional andself work over the last three years.
All of her best advice usuallycomes out of a therapy session.
Same.
She attended, she attended at somepoint, find out more about Julie at
(01:56):
JulieFrankham .com and thank you Julie.
Yeah.
Tell us more!
I just want to know how yougot into photography and
specifically newborn photography.
Yeah, birth photography.
Birth photography, sorry.
Yeah, no, for sure.
I love that.
I just copied and pasted a bio, but yeah,I won an award in January this year.
So super excited about that.
Tell us more first.
Is that in a magazine?
Was that online?
That's a great question.
So there's a international birthphotographers group called...
my gosh.
(02:17):
International Association ofProfessional Birth Photographers, IAPVP.
And so they do a worldwide birthphotography competition every year.
And I've entered every yearand never won, which is fine.
It's hard.
It is hard because it'severywhere, everywhere.
Germany, people from Argentina,everywhere in Europe.
(02:39):
Of course, Canada and the UnitedStates are entering these competitions.
But I always, because I have an Enneagram3 , I need the words ... give me
all the recognition, all the praise,like that is just my personality.
If I'm not number one, then I'malways like, you know, which is fine.
But also therapy helps manage that.
But I want to, so they dodifferent categories and then
(03:04):
they do three different awardsin each category and then they do
a people's choice for each category.
and which is all the other photographersthat are members of the International
Association of Professional BirthPhotographers vote for their favorite.
So it's a really limited group and it'sall of the other birth photographers who
are in their front lines doing the work.
(03:25):
And I won a People's Choice Award.
I won the category for favoriteof all the birth photographers.
Will you paint the picture for ourlisteners of what that picture looks like?
Yeah, I sure can.
So is it a home birth and momhad her baby on her chest.
And the category isactually birth details.
And so she's actually, like, it'sfrom above, down, and so she's
(03:48):
actually holding onto the amnioticsac and, like, inspecting it.
And it's, like, three o'clock in the morning.
It's just a corner lightcoming from the living room.
And yeah, just, like, and really moody.
And she's just, like,admiring her amniotic sac.
Her baby was born en caul.
So they're like...
So you can't really seeany faces or anything.
You can see like the top of her, likefor her nose down, but the, in the, and
(04:10):
she's still in the water and the babyfuzzy hair and everything like that.
And tell us what does it meanto be born and call in call?
Yes.
That's a great question.
So en caul is, when the waterdoesn't break before the baby's born.
And so the baby's born in the sack.
So like the amniotic sack iscovering the head and face still.
It's separate.
It's really fast.
Like it separates really quickly afterthe baby's born usually, but yeah.
(04:33):
Pretty cool.
If you're a great photographer, you canactually capture it before it happens.
And sometimes if you're a greatphotographer, you also need
a little bit of luck becauseeverything happens so fast.
You need a little bit of luckand a little bit of skill and a
lot of skill and a lot of luck.
And then you come in an award.
Yes.
Well, I apologize for theway I misspoke earlier.
I have just always thought of newbornphotography and I know plenty of
people do birth photography, but Ihad never really thought of it myself.
So.
In thinking about that, what are thepros of having a birth photographer?
(04:54):
Yeah, I love that.
I think, first of all, I justwant to do a little tangent.
I'm full of tangents.
I tangent all the time.
usually when I tell people I'ma birth photographer, I'll get
like one of three reactions.
First, first, yeah.
First is like, Ooh, I wouldwant pictures of that.
You know, they imagine likecrowning shots and blood and like
documentary, like TLC type stuff.
(05:15):
other people are like curious.
They'd be like, okay.
That sounds weird, but also kind of cool.
And they're a little curious orthe third one is like, my gosh,
I had a birth photographer.
I've always wanted to know when they knowexactly what it is and what it means.
And I feel like you probably havea good mix of that for people who's
listening to this episode and belike, I'm not quite sure what that
is or that sounds really gross.
(05:37):
and there definitely are peoplewho want the crowning shots and all
of that, which I don't even know.
I love a good crowning shot.
It's pretty, pretty powerful,but also it's about like the.
beauty and the connection that youexperience as you labor, the joy on
your face and your partner's facewhen you meet your baby for the first
time, capturing, especially for avideo, capturing those first cries,
(05:58):
the first words you ever say to yourbaby, I'm getting chills right now.
I never get chills.
The first words your partner sayto the baby, the environment and
the challenge sometimes you gothrough in labor is you struggle or
work hard to bring that baby here.
And everybody works hard, no matterif you have an epidural, if you're
unmedicated, you're breathing athome, you have a scheduled C -section.
Your birth takes acompletely untwisted turn.
(06:20):
I mean, there's just so much strength andpower no matter how it unfolds and having
somebody there that really knows howto document that experience while still
being mindful and respectful of all of themoving parts that are happening is really
important and really powerful and canhelp you prepare mentally for your birth.
(06:42):
It can help you process.
a crazy birth experience, especiallyif it took a way that you didn't
want it to go, or if you havea little bit of trauma from it.
And yeah, sorry, I think Iforgot what your question was.
No, you totally, I feel like answered it.
Yeah.
I was just talking about thepros of having a photographer.
And I feel like until you hear aboutit, until you see it, you don't
really know what you're missing.
Sarah has shown me some of her birthvideos and yeah, they made me cry.
(07:06):
You know, they are, they can betastefully done or, you know,
what, to what degree you want.
Some people want all of it, right?
They're like, give me all my, I'mgoing to be naked and give me all my,
and other people are like, I reallywant you to keep me super modest and
a good skilled birth photographer isgoing to know how to do that, right?
They're going to know all the rightangles to take and how to, and be
mindful of all those things while stillhaving a solid understanding of the
(07:27):
birth process and what is expected.
Although I say expected very looselybecause I don't trust babies.
babies are tricky and stinky all the time.
And, but like, you know, there's certainthings you can kind of anticipate
and, and move with and move around.
So I have a whole big variety of allthe people that have all the different
comfort levels and that's okay.
It's so impressive to me thata birth photographer can take
(07:49):
those moments of struggle.
And then when they actually put them intothe video, it's a moment of strength.
Yeah.
Well, that's what it is.
All like struggle, struggleis how you get to be strong.
Nothing becomes strong by doing.
easy things.
Like you think about your muscles, yourrelationships, any type of learning,
any type of skill, it takes pressureand tension and everything like that
(08:12):
in order to grow and become strong.
So of course, I think it's really easy.
I know for me, I had, I didn't havebirth photography and video with my
first, which is my biggest regret,but I had it for my last three.
And how I felt in my head and howit translated outward, sometimes
there's big disconnects in that.
And being able to look back andsee the reality, like what really
(08:35):
happened, what I really sounded like,how annoying my husband was not,
you know, those types of things.
Like, you were actually pretty good.
so cool.
Bonus points for thehusbands who hang in there.
For sure.
I feel like we don't getto see those parts a lot.
We hear about them after, or we see theend result, but we don't see the struggle.
(08:55):
We don't see the, the moments in between.
So it's, you're able to capturethat and have that as a memory.
I think that's a reallygood point actually.
Can I speak more to that?
Yeah, for sure.
Birth takes you very internal, right?
Especially if you're goingunmedicated, you don't have
epidural or anything like that.
And you don't notice thethings going on outside of you.
(09:16):
And...
I'm a really big detail person.
I want all the details.
I want to know what the hands are doing.
I want to see what the feet are doing.
I want to see what's going on, theconversations other people are having,
how other people, I like taking picturesof people sending text message updates
about the birth, things like that.
And you don't get to see thosethings when you're the birther.
Some of my favorite parts, I'll tellyou my two favorite parts from my
(09:38):
birth videos is one of them is my two-year -old at the time opened the door
to my bedroom and he had a fart gun.
And he...
push the fart gun so it made a fart noise.
I was completely oblivious.
I had no idea.
I was in the middle ofa contraction, I think.
And I see him opening the doorand making the little fart
gun go and everybody laughed.
It was so cute.
I completely was unaware of that.
And then another one is my mom holding myniece and they were playing downstairs.
(10:00):
So I was lingering upstairs and itwas so cool to see the little things
that were going on either in my roomor outside of my room that I was
just completely oblivious to and allthe memories that were being made.
They get to stay thereand I get to see them.
because I have that documented andI think it's just so beautiful.
I look at my birth videos morethan I look at my wedding.
(10:20):
I feel like it's more important.
Can I like say an unpopular opinion?
Birth photos and video are moreimportant than wedding photos and video.
I think it's a bigger day.
I think it's more important andthings that you're going to want to
remember probably more and stronger.
And I don't know.
That's my unpopular opinion.
But you also, you also need todocument it because when you're in
labor, that's the place you should be.
(10:42):
You should be in labor land.
And so should your partner.
Your partner shouldn't be focusing ongetting pictures for you and making
recordings and things like that.
They should be focused on youand what you need and how best to
serve you and not like trying todocument with their cell phones.
But what a precious memory that you cango back and then see everything that you
(11:02):
missed while you were doing the importantthing, laboring, bringing your baby about.
Well, you can see how strong you are.
Like how often do we get to seefrom the outside our strength?
It's so easy.
We as women, especially like in ourculture right now, it's so easy for us
to sit down, play ourselves, for us to,you know, have that negative feedback and
(11:23):
that negative self -talk and, and justbe, and don't, and not think that we're
as big of a deal as we actually are.
But then you get to go back and watch youworking through these really hard moments.
And then that sudden shift as you meetyour baby and all those big changes,
I think it's really empowering.
I had a client once who duringher labor, she kept saying,
I've done hard things before.
(11:45):
And a lot of times we just say, we tellourselves like in a model, like I can
do hard things, I can do hard things.
We probably all said that to ourselves.
But she said, I have done hard things.
And I love the reframing of that because,
It's basically like, Hey, Ihave a proven track record.
Like I can do this because I've donehard things like this before and
(12:05):
made it through and made it throughand being able to look through
that and see that perspective.
And remember not only the joy andhappiness, but also how you powered
through and, and, and made it,you know, is really kind of cool.
What are some of the other demonstrationsof strength that you have seen as
you've been in these birth situations?
my gosh.
So,
(12:26):
I guess we never talked about how Igot started into birth photography.
I guess I was on a question,but we kind of, I don't know.
I tangented away from that,I think, but I started out as
a doula about nine years ago.
And I was a doula for about six yearsbefore I added birth photography in.
And I've done over 120 births so farbetween doula and birth photography.
(12:48):
And I had two babies alsoin between that as well.
And.
man, what are some of the,
my gosh, all this strength andstruggle and empowerment and things.
There's so much, like there's just somuch from just really long labors and
having to be able to adapt to that andbeing completely exhausted and people
(13:12):
not thinking that they could go anymoreto actually going more and having, you
know, seeing partners be really emotional.
when they're watching theirpartner who is birthing struggle.
And sometimes they don't know how tohandle that or how to approach that or
the best way to, nobody likes seeingthe one they love in pain or miserable.
(13:35):
So
just having to change plans or makedecisions or sometimes there's a
big transformation that happens inlabor when a big change needs to be
made and you're fighting it, right?
Like if you're at home and you'retransferring to the hospital.
and you don't want to becausethat's not your birth plan.
(13:56):
And sometimes we get so rigid in ourthinking for our birth plans, right?
But then you have to transfer.
That takes a lot of strength and a lot ofthinking when you're in a very vulnerable
place where you don't feel strong andyou don't feel like you're thinking
very well because labor land is hard.
And being able to see people,you're kind of forced in that
situation to make a big decisionsometimes emits a lot of struggle.
(14:23):
in opposition from the outside and it'sreally cool to see that thing happen
and that change shift when people justdo it, like they're at their very,
they're very most vulnerable and they'revery weakest and they're still making
decisions that take a lot of grit anda lot of strength and you, and they
(14:43):
don't think they have it in them.
And then they muster it up andthey do have it in, they either,
you know, push their baby outor make the decision to fly.
I say fly like is in fast not fly tothe hospital and I don't know it's just
I can't think of one specific exampleof strength well I can think of many
so I'm having a hard time choosing one.
(15:04):
I saw a mom once at a home birth whoI thought she was on transition when
I got there at 10 and by three shesaw on her baby and she was pushing
and trying and working hard in thebirth pool and it's home birth and
her midwife was there and she was
roaring and fighting and
to an outside person you wouldthink she was just losing
(15:26):
her mind how she was acting.
And she was like hitting her fistson tables and me and the rest of
the birth team were just like, I'mnot quite sure how to handle this.
Because sometimes as many births asyou see, they will still surprise you.
But she didn't want any cervical checks.
She had a key word in case shewanted to transfer to the hospital.
(15:47):
She
was very, very firm in howshe wanted her birth to go.
And her midwife kept asking her, like,we're not sure if you should be pushing.
We've been pushing.
Should we do a cervical check?
She said no.
The midwives respectedher, all of those things.
And then after hours likethis, she finally said, yes,
(16:07):
let's do a cervical check.
And then the midwives checked her andshe wasn't fully dilated, but she had
been pushing this whole time in the pool.
And we were all this like,
Not quite sure what to do here.
And so she didn't want to go to hospitalfor epidural or anything like that.
And this was a VBAC too.
She had had a C -section.
So she wanted a completelydifferent experience.
(16:29):
Her first was also a home birth transfer.
And so we just keptletting her labor hard.
And her husband, her sweet littlehusband kept saying he thought he saw
the head coming out because he's justcompletely oblivious for, because
you know, like the labia separatesand all sorts of things going on.
That's not the head, but itis foreign when you don't.
see it before and anyways, she wasstruggling and at one point she almost
(16:53):
pulled me into the birth pool for theroot -use sort of contraction and then
like grabbed onto me and like kind of sunkdown, like just dead weight dropped and
it was just really wild but then she gotto the hospital, we transferred to the
hospital in the middle of a rainstorm,it was pouring rain, I was running to
my car and trying to keep all my gearsafe and everything and we like sped
down the way to the hospital becauseI thought we were going to have a...
car birth so I was like speeding byand I'm like I want a document of
(17:15):
car birth and we get there and thehospital didn't receive us very well.
She ended up getting an epiduraland then the baby's heart rate
started doing not so well so theytook her back for a C -section and
this was at an IHC hospital so ofcourse nobody's allowed in the OR and...
(17:36):
But I sent my camera back with a dadand dad took pictures, but the cord was
wrapped around baby's neck four times.
Not, not neck, neck and body four times.
And they had to cut the cord before theycould even take baby out by C -section.
So normally cord around neckand body, not a problem.
Slip it over the head once baby's born.
Not really emergency,but everyone's smile is.
(17:58):
And this poor mom had been pushing sohard and that baby was not coming out.
It was not going to come outno matter how long she pushed.
And so.
she had to go through quite the processwhile she was in labor and working so
hard and her body was trying to descendand dilate and bring baby down and it
wasn't working and it couldn't work.
And so she had to go through that processwhile still going through all the physical
(18:25):
sensations of a body that is both workingwith her and against her at the same time.
And...
just listening to her afterwardsprocess and talk about the birth
experience and how validating
it was for her to be the one tocall all the shots and have a birth
(18:45):
team that allowed her to do that.
And even the hospital doctors werelike, starting to be like, well,
you're kind of worried about baby.
And they didn't do a C -sectionuntil she consented to it.
Her outcome was still a C -section.
But the process was so different for her.
And to watch her heal and processthrough that a second time when she
(19:07):
had such a hard time the first timebecause she was the one in control.
And she had that documentation, both videoand photos, showing her her whole process
helped her to really move through thatby viewing it and by also being the one
to be in control of the birth the wholetime, as much as control as we have.
(19:27):
I guess during the birth, becausewe know that sometimes you just have
to play with the cards you're dealt.
And sometimes those cards thatyou're dealt are not very fun.
So yeah, I don't know.
I love this story of someonewho was able to process their
birth through your photography.
What about preparing for labor?
How can you use kind of like some birthvideos or some birth photography to
(19:48):
help us get into a state of mind anda physical state where we're excited
and anticipatory towards the event.
Yeah, I absolutely love that.
And I love that question.
And I, the more I do this, the moreI really see, and it sounds probably
weird, like how would you use birthphotography to prepare for birth?
But there's a few different ways.
Like, first of all, I think by hiringa birth photographer, it shifts your
(20:12):
mindset into thinking about how you reallywant your birth to go and look and feel.
I've had many clients at when myclients are 36 weeks, I send out
a questionnaire about their birth,like who's on your birth team.
What do you want your birth to look like?
What sounds and what sensoryissues are you thinking?
What's really importantfor me to capture for you?
(20:33):
What things do you think you willwant to remember a few years down
the road and things like that?
And I've had a few clients tell me thatlike, wow, I really hadn't thought about
some of these things until you asked me.
And I'm actually glad you askedme because I didn't know that this
existed or I didn't know I couldask for that or I hadn't thought
about these different things.
And I feel like it kind of...
(20:54):
just by hiring a birth photographer, butalso if you have a good one that will
ask you questions like that, can help youget into a mindset where you're preparing
more, where you are more mindful of thethings that are coming into your space.
You're more mindful of your providerand what they're gonna do and what their
plans are for you and how your plansdo or do not align with those things.
(21:15):
So I feel like justthat big mindset shift,
especially at the end of pregnancy,can be really helpful and important.
as you walk into it.
I also think that by looking at, like ifyou're, I think this is really important
for first time moms too, but also I thinkfor second, third and fourth time moms
that have had documentation from theirprior births, going back, especially birth
(21:38):
videos are really, really cool because alot of first time moms, I mean we don't,
every first time mom, you can prepare allyou want, but actually going through it is
so different and it's gonna be unexpected,even if you're on your fifth baby.
Babies trick you, they surprise you.
I say I don't trust babiesall the time, they're little
stinkers, they do what they want.
And they can just, it'sjust so unpredictable.
(22:00):
But by going and watching avariety of birth videos, I
think photos are really great.
I love the power that cancome in a single image.
But that image is like my flash,usually I keep it on one over 200 or
one over 160, which what that means isone, one 60th of a second, one 200th.
(22:20):
of a second is what's captured.
So it's not even a second,it's a fraction of a second.
And that is really cool to havethat still image and it's really
fun to see all the different, Imean, it's just really powerful.
But when you have the video with it,you can like go through and see how
labor evolves and you can see how manyvariations of normal they are, how
(22:43):
some people are quiet as they bringtheir babies here, how some people
are really loud and strong and verbal.
how some people birth their babiesstanding up or on the toilet at a
toilet birth on New Year's Eve, howsome people deliver in bed and with an
epidural or on their hands and knees.
All of those differentvariations are of normal.
And it can help you really hone in whatyour preferences are and what you want.
(23:07):
I remember when I was preparingfor my first VBAC at home,
there was this birth video.
I can't remember what it's callednow, but it's on my playlist.
But that's how I envisioned my birth.
I'm like, in the pool, Iwant my husband behind me.
We're gonna catch baby up.
And I'm like, this is what I want.
This is absolutely what I want.
When it came down to it, I did notwant my husband in the pool with me.
(23:27):
And he was so grateful, becausehe did not want to get in.
But he was going to, forme, because he loves me.
But also, I had watched many moreto prepare, and I'm like, it's okay
if he's not in the pool with me.
But I had that vision.
I knew what I wanted, because...
I was able to watch a wholevariety of different situations.
On a little side note, I think it's reallybeautiful when siblings are there and
(23:50):
people have different views on whetheror not, or whether they think siblings
in the birth space is cool or not cool.
I think it's amazing.
I think it's really fun.
I think it helps normalize birthfor this younger generation.
And I think it allows them to formmemories around birth that are not
traumatic, like we all grew up with.
But when people say, hey,
(24:11):
I want my five year old or three year oldor whoever year old in the space with me.
What do you suggest I doto help them be ready?
Because I'm scared thatI'm going to terrify them.
I say, watch birth videos with them.
And when these moms are making loudnoises and roaring their babies or
(24:31):
in invisible pain sometimes, you cansay, hey, look how strong she is.
Look how hard she's workingto bring her baby here.
I'm gonna be just like that.
So when you see me making thesenoises, you can know how strong I
am and how hard I'm working to bringyour baby brother or sister here.
And I think that's really cool.
(24:53):
And I feel like it helps these kids know.
I feel like it's gonna helpnormalize birth and change birth
for the better as we grow up.
Like my daughter, side note,tangent again, my daughter's seven.
She has a boyfriend.
She's going into third grade.
She'll be eight soon.
And...
They go on kid dates at recessand hold hands and it's super
(25:15):
cute the way she talks about it.
When I grew up and marry him and wehave babies, he wants me to have my
babies in the hospital, but I wantto have them at home like you did.
And I was like, okay.
I was like, that's a problem, isn't it?
And she's like, yeah, so I think,I don't know, maybe I'll have
my babies in the hospital, butmaybe I'll have them at home.
And I was like, well, do you know what?
I think if you want to have yourbabies at home, then you're the boss
(25:37):
of your body, and you're the onewho's pushing a baby out, and so
you get the say of what you can do.
And if you want to marry this dude whenyou're 27 and old enough to get married,
because you're not getting marriedbefore, anyways, she's eight or seven.
And it's very hard for meto envision that right now.
But.
(25:59):
you're gonna have to have a hardconversation with him and he's
gonna have to get on board with you.
And it's just reallycute how they do that.
Or like when they draw, my two girls,one is six and one is seven, and
they all draw pictures of moms havingbabies and it's always in the tub.
And they drew pictures of mein the tub and then there's two
of them floating in the water.
Like they're a year and a halfapart so they weren't even born at
(26:19):
the same time but they're both likefloating in the water being born.
It's just so cute.
And that's the vision that they have.
Because every year, we watch theirbirth videos on their birthday.
We go through everybody's birthdayon everybody's birth videos on
everybody's birthday becausethey always want to see theirs.
And for my oldest, who I don't haveprofessionally, then we took some
cell phone pictures and little thingslike that and we go through those.
(26:41):
And it's so cool.
And they always say, hey, do youremember in your birth video, or do
you remember when Owen said, get thepoop out of the birth pool water?
That was so funny.
And they had these really cool memoriesof the day that they were born.
That is so special and so valuable.
And they get to see the joy onour faces when we receive them
(27:02):
and the sounds and the excitementthat we had when we met them.
And I think that's just so irreplaceable.
It's like, I'm a really nostalgic person.
So I just think of like thesebirth stories, they're heirlooms.
You get to pass thesedown for generations.
And, and can you imagine like, I knowthat when our grandparents were having
babies, these wasn't a thing, butlike, can you imagine if you could see
(27:23):
your, your grandma meeting your mom?
Like that's so cool.
I don't know.
Anyways.
I love that.
I love how you make it so individualizedand how it is similar to a birth
plan when you get that questionnaire.
And for you.
Are you there the whole birthor does it depend on the woman?
Is that one of the questions?
Are you there only in activelabor or the whole thing?
(27:43):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So, everybody's a little bit different,but my general, like if I were to have
a textbook answer, it would be like, Ilike to be there from six centimeters on
when you're in active labor until likeone to two hours after the baby's born.
Now for first time mom, yeah, I'll, I'llgo when they're about six centimeters,
(28:04):
unless labor is progressing really fast.
I'll go sooner.
because usually first timemoms take a little bit longer.
Although I did miss the first birthby eight minutes, just a few months
ago, because she went from threecenturies to baby in two hours.
So this is why I don't trust babies.
but yeah, if they're, if they have ahistory of fast birth, I want to head
out as soon as you know, they've hadan hour worth of contractions, because
(28:28):
nothing's worse than missing a birth.
Nothing is worse than it.
And so we just kind of.
keeping communication whenlabor starts and we decide
together when I'm going to come.
And everybody's just a littlebit different sometimes.
So yeah, I usually like to be there todocument active labor through pushing
and then after the baby's born, weget all the newborn exam, all the
(28:48):
documentation, the first moments,nursing if moms choose to breastfeed,
dad holding baby, other siblings meetingbaby if they're at home, all of those
really cool first moments and stuff.
Yeah.
Earlier you mentioned wantingto capture a car birth.
My friend had her fourthbaby in her minivan.
jealous.
(29:09):
Right.
She had gone to the hospital threetimes and they turned her away
and she rushed to the hospital.
She couldn't even make it to her hospital.
So she had to stop at the nearesthospital and it was during COVID.
And so of course the husbandpulled in and they stopped to
ask him the COVID questions.
(29:30):
And meanwhile, she had her baby.
my gosh.
So COVID, you know, but we, she made itthrough and now she takes a picture every
year in the car with him and hopes topass that car onto him when he's older.
my gosh.
Can you imagine having your first date?
yeah.
I was born in this car.
I was born here in backseat.
That's awesome.
(29:53):
We.
want to see all of your birthvideos, just the excitement
that you have for all of these.
I'm like, I should go and look her up soI can see the magic that she's producing.
If you can't have a birth photographeras amazing as you are, what can
you do to capture the memories?
Yeah.
You know what?
birth photography or birthin general is expensive.
(30:16):
It's expensive.
You gotta pay your midwife,your provider, hospital bills.
You gotta hire maybe a doula, abirth photographer, all those things.
And it can rock up really fast.
And not everybody canafford a birth photographer.
Not everybody wants another person intheir space, which is totally fine.
There is lots of things that couldprevent people from wanting one.
(30:39):
Maybe after all of this, they still thinkit's just gross and they don't want it.
But I...
I would highly recommend having somebodybe in charge of taking pictures.
It could be your partner.
We talked about why I think that yourpartner should be the one focusing
on you earlier, but that's okay.
Have your partner take pictures.
(30:59):
Sometimes, if the hospital is slow,you can give your camera to a nurse
to take pictures of both you andyour partner after the baby is born.
I mean, you shouldn't count onthat because it's not always
possible, but sometimes it is.
Even if you have your mother -in -law oryour doula, like when I started out as
a doula, kind of a short answer to whyI became a birth photographer is when
I started out as a doula, because I hadjust been fresh off of my first VBAC and
(31:23):
I had a photographer and a videographerand I knew that everybody, and I still
believe this, everybody deserves a pictureof the first time they see their baby.
Everybody does.
So I would get on my cell phone atthe moment of birth and like snap
away, and take pictures and like...
upload like 500 images to a Google Driveand be like, there's probably like 10
good ones in here, but here you go.
(31:44):
Because everybody deserves that, I think.
And so I would do thatfor all my doula clients.
And then a few years ago, or a fewyears, yeah, a few years ago, I sat
down with a birth photographer friend ofmine who's actually at my fourth birth.
And I was like, I shouldbe a birth photographer.
And she's like, you should.
So I bought a camera and I startedtaking it to my doulaverse.
And it is kind of a really short.
(32:04):
or a short version of a long story.
But I really think that any wayyou can document it, you should.
I feel like if you set up a GoProabove your head, clip onto the
hospital bed above your head and justpush play so you can get video of your
baby coming out, set up a camera ona tripod or something and just have
(32:28):
it take pictures every three secondsor however long, find some way.
I mean we live in this reallycool age where we have cameras
in our pockets everywhere we go.
So
I feel like some people say, wellI don't know if I want it or not.
And I say, you can never seepictures that you didn't take.
(32:49):
So yeah, find a way to find somebody,if you have a camera on a tripod,
give your phone to your doula.
have a nurse try and take it anything.
Yeah.
However you can, howeveryou can make it work.
Do it.
Document that birth.
You should, you just, you should.
I feel so strongly about this.
I love that strength.
And I love that you shared atthe beginning of the episode
(33:10):
that you're an Enneagram three.
Yeah.
I wanted to ask you, have youever read the child whisperer?
no.
It gives types for your children.
yes.
Like is your child sensitive?
Is your child, you know,the fun loving child.
But it made me think ofthe personality type.
If you know yours, then knowingyour kids is a joy as well.
Yeah, that is so cool.
(33:32):
Yeah, I think, yeah, sorry.
What other questions do you have?
Well, we want to know the resourcesthat you would like to share today.
Yeah.
Resources.
You asked me this, didn't you?
End of the question.
Do you remember what my answer was?
to get educated.
yes, okay, so yes, absolutely.
Okay, I remember now.
Yes, get educated.
Whether you're a first time mom or afifth time mom or a tenth time mom, I
feel like there's always more we can know.
And I feel like, I feel likethis is especially maybe
toward the first time moms.
You can never know enough.
(33:52):
There are so many podcasts andInstagram accounts and YouTube channels
and Facebook groups and everythinglike this just dedicated to birth.
However you want to birth.
You want to schedule C -section, cool.
There's a group for that.
There's an Instagram account.
You want to VBAC, cool.
There's lots of good resources for that.
You want unmedicated birth, awesome.
There's so many cool resources for that.
(34:13):
If you want to epidural and do everythingyour doctor says, that's really cool.
There's resources for that.
If you want to...
birth your baby in the woodsnext to a deer with only you,
there's a resource for that.
Get online and figure it outbecause if you don't know what
your options are, you have none.
You don't have any if youdon't know what they are.
And it doesn't matter if you decideto have a completely medicated
(34:37):
birth and that you trust your doctorand you want an epidural and you
want to be induced to 39 weeks.
That's okay if that's whereyou land, but make it a choice.
Make it something that you decided on.
and not something that was toldto you to do because that's where
birth trauma gets introduced.
Birth trauma is less about the endresult of the birth and more about
(34:59):
whether birthing people felt thatthey were seen, safe and heard in
their, and comforted in their birth.
And so learn as much as you can.
And then if you're, and then also ifyour birth takes an unexpected turn,
You are like, yes, I read about this once.
Or that person talked aboutit on this Instagram account.
(35:20):
There's just so many other things.
Immerse yourself in thatworld and have opinions.
Have strong ones.
And it doesn't matter if your birthturns out exactly how you wanted it to
in your perfect world, but it's aboutthe knowledge you learn along the way
that can help guide you when you'rein a spot where you're most vulnerable
and it's easy to be taken advantage of.
(35:42):
even by people that don't knowthey're taking advantage of you
because of your state of mind.
Thank you so much, Julie,for speaking to that.
I love that.
It's so true.
The more we can learn, themore we'll, we'll be informed.
So we have a mom squad secretthat we share each week from
someone in our community.
And this one is from Katie.
She says after birth, I wasmore sore than I expected.
(36:03):
It took about three to four weeksto feel mostly normal again.
Again, just giving our bodytime and learning that was
she was operating from theknowledge she had at that time.
And so the more we gain knowledge,the more we can expect and
anticipate and plan around.
I love that.
Julie, thank you for comingon our podcast today.
We are so excited to go checkout your award winning photo.
(36:25):
We will link that in the show notes.
Yes.
Thank you.
Thanks for joining us on today's episode.
We hope you've been elevated andinspired by this week's expert.
Subscribe today so you never missan episode and please share our
podcast or post on your socialmedia so that other moms and dads
to be can also have the best birth.
(36:45):
Please note that the informationprovided is based on the expert's
insights and personal experience.
It is not intended as medical guidance.
Please seek the advice of yourmedical provider as it applies
to your specific condition.
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