8 - Learning to Speak the Language of Birth within your mind, body and soul with Doula Katie Förster
August 31, 2024 • 38 mins
Katie Förster shares her journey to becoming a doula and the transformative experiences she had during her own births. She emphasizes the importance of preparing both the mind and body for birth and highlights the role of somatics in birth preparation. Somatics is the idea that our body is intelligent and can store trauma, but it is also the way to move through it. Katie discusses the power of curiosity, tracking sensations, and mindfulness exercises in connecting the mind and body during birth. She also emphasizes the importance of honoring individual choices and finding the most impactful preparation methods that feel good for each person.
CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction and Katie's Journey to Becoming a Doula 03:21 The Transformative Power of Birth 04:03 The Role of Somatics in Birth Preparation 09:18 Curiosity and Mindfulness in the Birth Experience 13:47 Honoring Individual Choices in Birth 16:14 Nutrition and Movement for Postpartum Recovery
RESOURCES Waking the Tiger - Healing Trauma Resilient- how to grow an unshakable core of calm, strength and happiness- Rick Hanson Ph.D "Allowing yourself to be vulnerable during birth doesn’t mean you are weak. It means you are strong enough to accept help, listen to your body, and trust the process."
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
It's the Best Birth Podcast, wherewe interview experts that elevate
you as you prepare your heartand mind to have the best birth.
Each episode will interviewprofessionals so you are prepared
for pregnancy, birth, and postpartum.
Our experts will build your confidenceand empower you to trust your
intuition throughout your pregnancy.
This audio is takenfrom videos on YouTube.
(00:27):
Watch the entire episodes onYouTube at Birth Made Mindful.
The Best Birth [00:01]
You're listening tothe Best Birth Podcast.
Our guest today is Katie Förster, a doulaand we're so excited to talk to her today.
Katie has been a birth doula for sevenyears and has always been fascinated
by the psychosomatic aspects of birth.
The births of each of her four childrenwere transformative in their own way
(00:50):
and she loves to support women as theyprepare for the life -changing threshold
of becoming a mother or a mother again.
Welcome, Katie.
Katie Foerster [00:29]
Hi, I'm excited to be here.
The Best Birth [00:32]
Can you tell us why youwanted to become a doula?
Tell us a little bit aboutyour journey getting there.
Katie Foerster [00:38]
Of course.
So my first birth, I wentinto it with this big ego.
(01:12):
I was like, I have thishigh pain tolerance.
My mom's such a baby and she had seven.
Like I'm not going to have a problem.
This will be fine.
So I didn't put a lot of time orenergy into preparing because I
was just like, Matt, I've got this.
I've always got it.
I'm fine.
It ended up being a very long and very
like difficult experience.
I didn't know how to engage.
I really wanted to go unmedicated,but didn't know how really
(01:35):
to engage with contractions.
I kind of, my husband jokes andsays that I was trying to win.
Like every contraction came andI was like, I'm better than you.
But that doesn't work.
That doesn't work for birth.
I didn't know it at the time,but that birth went very long.
I ended up choosing an epiduraland had a lot of complication,
not complications, but just.
(01:57):
things I didn't want around delivery andwalked away just feeling really defeated.
Like, why did I fail so bad at that?
I thought I'd be good at that.
Why did I fail?
So when I became pregnant again, itwas like, hey, I want to do something
really differently this time.
And I kind of explored all options.
It's like, do I just want to C -section?
Do I just want to opt out?
Like, I don't want to do that again.
(02:18):
That sucked.
But then I decided to take a hypnobirthingclass and that class really like
opened my eyes to a lot of things.
I realized how much...
I had been at odds with my body.
Like I had not known how to letmy body do what it needed to do.
I had tried to be in controlof birth the entire time.
And that revelation waslike, okay, that's not good.
(02:40):
And that probably applies toother parts of my life, right?
But I prepared for that birth verydifferently, very intentionally,
tried to engage with my body, dida lot of like relaxation tracks and
just practice being more present.
And that birth was beautiful.
It was a completely different story.
I went unmedicated, was superhappy with the experience.
(03:00):
It was fast.
She came in like just over two hours.
And after that, I walked awaywith just like this wind, like
just like beneath my wings, right?
It was just like a whole differentexperience becoming a mother after
having such a positive birth.
And my husband joked that wheneverI talked to anybody with a
uterus, that birth would somehowlike come into the conversation.
(03:24):
He's like, you've got todo something with that.
Like that's so much passion.
You need to do something there.
It's obviously something you love.
So we had those two babies in Germany.
That's where I was living at the time.
And then we moved over here and a friendwas like, you should become a doula.
I was like, what's that?
So I looked it up and Iwas like, that's a job.
That's a real job.
(03:45):
So I looked up the next training,took it and never looked back.
The Best Birth [03:20]
That is so fantastic.
I just love hearing about how youapproached birth in a different way
and how it made such a difference.
That concept of like battling againstyour body, even the term birth warrior
can sometimes cause people to feel likethey have to fight and bringing that
(04:08):
sort of energy into your birth whereit's like, I'm going to fight this.
I'm going to fight.
This can be really detrimental insteadof just feeling like I'm going to
surrender to this, or I am going to
Katie Foerster [03:22]
I'm gonna go.
Hmm
The Best Birth [03:50]
to own this.
I'm going to commune with thesecontractions in a way that allows
our body to open and expand andprepare for the delivery of our baby.
(04:30):
Katie Foerster [04:01]
Yeah, totally.
I would agree with that.
The Best Birth [04:03]
Can you tell us a little bit moreabout somatics and that approach?
What does that mean to you?
Katie Foerster [04:10]
So somatics is a relatively new field.
But I think anciently we've alwayshad access to this, but it's just
kind of coming back into our radar.
And basically it's the idea that our bodyis intelligent, that our body is both the
(04:52):
place that we put our trauma and like ourstruggles, that it can store those things.
And that is also the wayto move through them.
So somatics is usuallyconnected to the nervous system.
So understanding what our flight, fightand freeze, fawn responses all are.
and how we can use those responsesto like build out our ability to be
(05:13):
in our bodies and to move through anysort of difficult experiences we have
without it being like lasting traumatic.
Because we're built to be able to handledifficult experiences, it's in us, but
we're in a society where we're kind oftaught to pretend like things aren't hard.
And we're taught to kind of shovedown our difficult emotions, pretend
like we're not grieving, pretend likewe're not angry, like kind of get
(05:35):
over it and move on very quickly.
And somatics is kind of that fieldthat's just learning that if we can
tap into that intelligence of ourbody that is real and there and very
powerful, that we can move through alot of our history and just move into
the future in a way that's very presentand able to handle things that happen
(05:56):
without it becoming overwhelming, likesending us into a state of like flooded
or out of controlness or shut down.
which is where a lot of us live.
That's kind of my patternthat I've recognized is that
I tend to move into shutdown.
That's kind of the, I've got it allcovered, high pain tolerance, right?
It's like, I just don't feel it.
I just don't feel it.
But the body pays a pricewhen we just don't feel it.
(06:18):
Cause somebody has tofeel it cause it's real.
And so somatics and birth, I haven'treally been connected in a big way.
And that's my big passion right now.
I'm teaching like a birth class for doulasabout how to connect kind of that nervous
system somatics with the birth space.
and understanding trauma and itseffects in more of like a body
-based perspective rather than likea psychology mind -based perspective.
(06:40):
So that you teach for our womenso that they can connect their
mind and their body during birth?
Katie Foerster [06:19]
One of the big ones is during pregnancyto just kind of get very conscious.
I call it tracking and that's whatit's called in most of somatics
is learning to track what yourbody's doing, to track your current
feelings and to begin to engage withintense sensation in a safe way.
(07:03):
So one of the ways like a lot ofbirth classes teach is that you
hold a piece of ice in your hand.
You hold it in your hand and you try andsee can I engage with this sensation?
Is it overwhelming to me?
What does my mind do whileI'm holding this piece of ice?
Because your mind mightstart like, let it go.
I want to let it go.
And there may be actual panic thatkind of comes up when you're holding
(07:24):
a piece of ice, even though there's nodanger, it'll just melt into your hand.
There is no present danger.
But if your body has a large reaction tothat, that sensation intensity, then you
can notice, okay, I have some work here tobe done to be able to sit with intensity.
And I think that the
point of it's just to be conscious andjust to understand this is where I'm at.
(07:45):
Like there's no...
it's a long journey to be ableto connect with your body.
We live in a society wherewomen especially are taught
not to trust our bodies.
So learning that throughthat is really helpful.
Mindfulness exercises that are body based.
So not being mindful and likestaying in your brain, but being
mindful and sinking into your body.
(08:06):
Like what do I smell right now?
What can I feel?
How do my clothes feel on my body?
Can I feel the back of my body?
Like that's a big oneis, can I sense my back?
Because a lot of us are so brainand forward oriented that we're
not used to being in our back body.
So a lot of just very, very inwardand like body based preparations
(08:28):
like that can be very powerful.
The Best Birth [08:06]
One of the first times that I reallylike was in tune with the back
of my body, I was scuba diving.
And because I was wearing thetank on my back, it felt as if
there was weight or this pressure.
But then also when you're underwater,you're not in a world like ours because
there's everything that's above you,below you, around you, even though
(08:51):
our eyes are only focused forward.
And it's magical to go scuba diving.
Many people are really afraid ofthe creatures or being underwater.
Katie Foerster [08:12]
Hmm
Mm -hmm.
The Best Birth [08:34]
But then just realizing that I couldsettle in and allow my breath to regulate
and to control, and then you just getto experience the magic that's there.
Katie Foerster [08:45]
Hmm, that sounds super peaceful.
(09:13):
I think that part of the fear is that it'sjust a very different sensation and we're
not used to being with our sensations,like you said, but when we can sit into
it and be like, this is different, canI experiencing it without attaching
fear to it because it is unknown?
And can I let it be newand like just get curious?
And curiosity is a huge part of anybirth preparation can be really powerful.
(09:38):
Can I just be curiousabout what's happening?
Can I be curious about how itfeels to have my stomach grow?
Can I be curious about these newfeelings of guilt that I'm feeling?
Like, where is this coming from?
Can I be curious about the way myrelationship is shifting rather than
feeling like it's all an attack?
Can I just get curious about what'shappening and engage with it in
(09:59):
kind of that way where it's likeI'm tiptoeing towards rather than
trying to resist and shut out?
So.
The Best Birth [09:40]
You spoke of dealing with theintense emotions, learning how
to feel these in our bodies.
What else do you recommendas we're preparing for labor?
Katie Foerster [09:50]
I think that's just it.
Like it sounds so simple, but it'slearning to be okay with things when
(10:22):
they come up and creating space for them.
So noticing today, I am very on edge.
Where do I feel that in my body?
That's a question I ask myselfas I'm trying to learn to engage
better with my body all the time.
Where am I feeling this in my body?
What does this feel like in my body?
And allowing the spaceto just let it come.
(10:43):
I think I used to be very proudof the fact that I was very stoic.
I was like, I just don't, thingsdon't phase me and I'm fine.
And learning to engage my body, engagewith somatics is I've cried so much
more in the last two years than Ithink the rest of my life combined.
Because I just allow itto come without judging.
(11:03):
So a lot of times, I read a post by thison Instagram, it's one of my favorite
posts I think I've ever written.
I was in my first trimesterand my husband, I got really
emotional at something.
My husband was like, it's those hormones.
And I was like, Hmm, like, is itjust the hormones or is this real?
Like that feels so gaslighty.
And I know he didn't mean itto be that way, but I was like,
(11:25):
babe, this is real sadness.
This is not just hormones,just throwing out emotion.
Like this is my sadness.
And maybe because I'm hormonal,I'm less able to keep it under
control, but it's still there.
And so validating ourselves to thatI'm a good person and I'm feeling this.
This does not make me a bad mom.
This does not make me like frustrations.
(11:46):
A big one or their days where it's like,I don't want to be doing this today.
Like I just don't want a mom today.
It's too hard.
I don't want to do it.
And sitting with that fora minute and just saying, I
am feeling very overwhelmed.
Where am I feeling it in my body?
And for me, there's a lot of like,I can feel chaos in my chest.
Like it feels like, likethere's a storm inside my chest.
(12:07):
And just finding the language tosay, okay, where is it in my body?
Can I sit with it?
Can I acknowledge it?
And then move through it.
And there's a lot of releasethat happens when we learn to
say, okay, I can move through.
And this is very powerful for birthbecause we always talk about transition.
Like everybody has this huge emotionalbarrier they come up against.
But in my last birth, after workingwith somatics, I didn't hit a barrier
(12:30):
because I just was writing whatever came.
There was no dam to be unblocked.
And I think transition for a lot of womenis they hit this wall where they don't
know how to deal with that emotion andthe emotion has to come out and it's big.
And a lot of times it can be doubtin themselves or fear of the future,
inability to be with the unknown,the sensations become overwhelming.
(12:53):
And then we hit this big well.
And as we know, a lot oftransition is, does not last.
It's a short thing.
And that's how all emotions are.
They well up, they need to beacknowledged, and then they go back down.
But if you shove them down,there is no resolution.
So I always say emotions like insemantics is very similar to contractions.
We learn to ride them.
(13:14):
We learn to say, okay, here it comes.
And I'm not going to resist.
I'm not going to say,no, no, no, no, no, no.
Cause I know as a doula, anytimeyou see a woman who starts doing
this, that we are not coping.
We're trying to run.
We're in our flight response.
Anger's like, I want to be done.
I want this over.
Why did I do this?
Or like the classic getting mad at your...
Harper, you did this to me, that'syour fight response coming up.
(13:37):
And just realizing like, I am, my nervoussystem's feeling triggered right now.
And in birth that can be verycomforting to say, okay, this
is normal, this is human.
Humans get this way when they're feelingvery big emotions, and this will end.
And so practicing that during pregnancyin like smaller forms can help it be
smoother during birth to be able to say,okay, I can greet this with curiosity, I
(14:01):
can surrender to the bigness and accept.
I am feeling this right now, this is hard.
And then wait for the resolutionthat I can trust will come.
The Best Birth [13:44]
I heard a quote recently that was sayingIt's in the allow not the how and I feel
like that's exactly what we're talkingabout with surrendering and with letting
these big emotions move through usand not allowing them to be a barrier.
(14:24):
Katie Foerster [13:58]
Yeah, I would agree with that for sure.
I love this.
So I wrote a poem.
I talk about it on my podcast.
I have a podcast called Birth Mysticsand I wrote this poem my second
pregnancy and I really love it.
though the waves crash aroundme tumultuous and fierce.
I have nothing to fear for I amnot a ship navigating the storm.
I am Poseidon and the ocean is me.
(14:47):
And I think there's some of thatfear feels like this attack.
And that's where our nervous systemgets riled up because we feel
like something is attacking us.
And a lot of our fears, whether it bea C -section or non -consent from our
doctors or anything that during pregnancyyou feel like, I'm really afraid of
that, I don't want that to happen.
We often see it as this outsidething that's kind of like,
(15:09):
could possibly attack us.
But starting to recognize whetherit be the intensity of labor or
our fears that when we engagewith them, like it's part of us.
This fear is like a warning signal.
It's communication from our subconscioussaying there's something here we
need to have a plan or an idea ora better understanding of so that
(15:31):
it doesn't feel dangerous anymore.
So we know, okay, if that were tohappen, here's what I would do.
Or here's the chances of that happening.
So I have an appropriateamount of worry about it.
Cause sometimes we worry aboutsomething super, super un...
something that's not very likelyto happen, but we worry about it
as if it was likely to happen.
(15:51):
So a lot of times just engaging onceagain, that curiosity of high fear or
high intensity, what is the message?
What is the learning that you holdfor me that I can take and either
search for more understanding orunderstand myself better through?
So.
The Best Birth [15:46]
Being able to walk through those fearsduring pregnancy and even create a plan.
(16:15):
What would I do in this situation?
You know, so let's say your waterbreaks before your contractions start.
What is my plan?
What is my next step?
Or, you know, just like taking anyscenario from your birth plan and
actually walking to the edge of thatfear beyond that fear is going to
allow your body to be able to releaseand to kind of walk down a path that
(16:38):
you have mentally walked before.
Katie Foerster [16:07]
Thank you.
Yes.
And also, how am I goingto resource myself?
Like, what resources am I going todraw on if this thing I really don't
want to happen happens so that I canfeel supported, seen, held, loved,
even if I'm doing this thing thatI really don't want to have to do?
(16:58):
What resources do I have and howcan I engage with them, right?
It's also, because planning, a lot ofit's like planning is very cerebral.
And it is important that we have thatunderstanding to like soothe our logic
mind But that sometimes isn't enoughto sink down, but if we know okay Even
if I end up in my worst case My partnerknows what to say and what to do and I
(17:21):
we know how to connect with each otherso that I will feel like We're together.
I know who I can reach outto who's knowledgeable.
I know ways I can soothe myself Soresourcing can just be I know that I love
this music, I can ask to havethis music on during my C -section
because that's really helpful for me.
Like for me, the ocean waves, it's likethat was on through my entire last labor.
(17:43):
It was just the sound of the ocean.
And so I know that that's for me, acue to cue safety, to cue calmness.
And so understanding your ownpersonal resources and seeing how
they could support you in thosefears if they were to be actualized.
The Best Birth [17:35]
For the birth of my third son, I choseto have a home birth and the amount of
(18:04):
people that would ask me, well, what ifyou have to transfer to the hospital?
And as I started processing that myself,I thought we all utilize the resources
that we need at the time we need them.
Some of us choose to experienceour labor and our delivery and
our postpartum care at a hospital.
And as I was thinking about it,there was no sense of failure
(18:28):
to transfer to the hospital.
I said, my plan is to labor at home,to push my baby out at home and to stay
at home But if at any time I need theresources that a hospital can provide,
I'll transfer there and I'll utilizethose resources and the medical staff and
their training to benefit me and my baby.
And so there was no sense ofurgency or fear or, trepidation.
(18:52):
If this event happens, likethis is where we'll go.
And it gave me a huge sense of reliefand peace and a lot of other individuals
who are looking outside, all thatthey see is the fact that you'll be
a few minutes away from, assistanceif you have a medical emergency.
But in my mind, I wanted to createan environment that was quiet and
(19:14):
solitude and without the distractions,without that element of time.
what if I show up to the hospitaland I'm only two centimeters dilated?
What if I feel like I have to push andthen we don't make it to the hospital.
I wanted to be in my own home whereI could allow my body to birth
on whatever timeline it chose.
And that birth to me was an incredibleevidence of allowing our bodies to perform
(19:42):
in the way that, that they want to, andthe timeline that they have instead of.
Katie Foerster [18:58]
Yeah.
The Best Birth [19:22]
Trying to be on a different timelineand not to inconvenience a provider.
It was really magical.
Katie Foerster [19:29]
I love that for you.
That's beautiful.
I think that that's really healthy tosay, I see the hospital as a resource.
And a lot of people who do a homebirth really don't want that.
(20:04):
I plan when I was planning my firstout of hospital birth, so I have four
kids, the first two I told you about.
My third was a birth center.
My fourth was at home.
And I think for my like getting reallycurious about why is one of my holdups.
One of mine was I'm a doula.
I should not have things happen.
Like things should go smoothly.
because I know so much, right?
(20:24):
And like that was some sort ofinsurance that things would go well.
But I had to learn like,no, I need to trust my body.
And if my body needs help,I need to be okay with that.
I can't, I shouldn't be judging mybody if I end up needing assistance.
Like if I actually truly trust my body,like we talk about a lot in the natural
home birth community, like a lot of peoplechoose home birth because they want to
(20:45):
let their body do what it needs to do.
But does that trust end if yourbody needs medical support?
Do you know, like for some women Ifeel like that is a holdup where it's
like if I transfer I failed or mybody's failed or why couldn't my body
just do it the way it's supposed to.
But if you need help then your bodyneeds help and that's what it needs.
And taking kind of thatjudgment out of it, right?
(21:07):
And I think that's reallywhat it comes down to.
I love the births where women canreally be in their bodies and you can
see a difference like when they'retrying to think through what they're
doing like, was this position?
a good upright position from thisclass I took, or when they're asking
their bodies, what do you need?
When they're actually in their bodies andget in the most, I love when women get
(21:30):
in just these interesting positions ormake whatever noise they feel like their
body needs in order to cope, becausethat's an embodied birth is saying, okay,
I've learned all this, I've gathered allthese resources and now I'm hands off.
And now I'm going to followwhatever comes and however I
feel and whatever feels good.
without feeling like I need topeople please those around me.
(21:51):
That's a huge thing at the hospitalis that they've got this kind of
idea of this is how one should act.
You don't want to be a difficultpatient, but at home there's a lot
more space just to be whatever youneed to be and to act however you need
to act to get your baby out, right?
So I think that's really beautiful.
The Best Birth [21:45]
I've had three cesarean sectionsplanning to have a fourth baby.
(22:13):
I don't know how thatbirth is going to go.
You know, most of the time we, we canplan, but we don't know how it will go.
And already I feel so empowered bythis podcast and just making the best
birth for you and what that lookslike with my other three births.
I didn't really have alot of birth knowledge.
I kind of just went along withtrusting the professionals and
(22:34):
this is what they said to do.
And so I did it and justgiving myself grace for.
Katie Foerster [21:49]
you
The Best Birth [22:14]
what I knew at the time andmoving on towards that moving
forward and not judging myselffor what I knew at the time.
Katie Foerster [22:22]
Yeah, I think that's beautiful.
It's like how can I hold thatcompassion in my heart that I did
the best I could with the knowledgeI had at the time and use it to move
(22:57):
forward and maybe make decisions.
I want to show up in the world differentlynow without judging the way I used to.
So I think sometimes we are changing,we feel like regret or judgment towards
the things we're changing away from.
But I love that it's likeI did the best I could.
I had three jurisdictions,I have three babies.
And what are some ways, whether it'sa C -section or any other choice
(23:18):
I decide to make that feels right?
Like that sounds so simple,but what feels right for me?
And if the C -section feels right, whatare some things and resources I can
use to help myself feel more connected?
Like there's like gentle caesareans andfamily centered caesareans now that are
becoming more and more, more and moreused where you can have like the music on.
(23:38):
You ask the staff to keep their voicelow, skin to skin as soon as possible.
They have like clear drapes and allof these are beautiful resources
and options to help us to not havefeel like it's so black and white.
Like either I have a connected birth orI have a C -section and C -sections full
disconnection out of control medical.
Like a lot of times I'll havedual clients who end up with a C
-section are kind of like, well, Idon't know if I need you anymore.
(24:00):
And I'm like, you do.
I trust me.
Like I can still help so much to helpthis feel like a positive connected
experience, even though it's not the routethat you were originally planning to take.
So I think that's beautiful that you'rekind of thinking about how can I.
really be in my authenticity and be inwhat feels good and not feel like you're
(24:20):
moving into the birth community now withthis podcast and different things to not
feel like, I have to do it a differentway because I have more knowledge,
but to let that bring you full circle.
Cause that's the pendulum sometimes.
The pendulum swings fromfull medical to I don't trust
anything medical, full natural.
And we have to find that middleground of I trust my body and
I know that medical births arenecessary and it can be helpful.
(24:43):
and write for peopleto have medical births.
The Best Birth [24:23]
So Katie, because you support womenin their births, what are some of the
things that you have seen in labor thatcan really give that power to a family?
Katie Foerster [24:36]
I think just one of the bigthings is just saying things
(25:04):
in a way that is not leading.
Like just my language beinglanguage of what's right for you.
Here's some ideas.
Are you feeling good?
Check -ins.
Are you feeling good aboutwhat's happening right now?
Do you need more space asyou're making this decision?
Because a lot of times, especiallyin hospital births, but I hear this
at home as well, people feel liketheir provider's making a suggestion.
(25:28):
because of their own peoplepleasing tendencies, it
doesn't feel like a suggestion.
It feels like what they should be doingbecause, it's my medical professional.
They know better than me.
So I'll just do that.
But really giving people that spaceto say there are other options.
Is that what feels right?
Do you need a minute to check inwith yourself and sit with it if
(25:48):
this is the way forward for you?
And then also just holding thatspace for them to say no and being
that kind of buffer where it's like.
Okay, do you want some time to decide?
Should we have the staff, themidwife leave the room while
you guys have a discussion?
And then when we come back, youcan let us know what feels right.
And then reminding you, okay, ifyou want to say no, you can say no.
(26:09):
It's okay to say no.
It's okay to say yes,whatever feels right for you.
But making sure they have someone who'slike really just saying that's the power
of a doula in a lot of ways is that...
It's just this safe space.
And that's where some doulas, Ithink, struggle a little bit not
to bring their bias into the space.
But that's where I feel like my entiredoula journey, I've gone my path, right?
(26:32):
And I finally landed at a placewhere I'm like, you are the only
one who knows, the only one whoknows what a positive birth means.
And you are the only one who knowswhat is happening in your body.
Nobody else, not me, notthe provider, nobody.
And so you're the one.
who you need to express that.
You need to be able to say, this iswhy I'm feeling is right, or this is
(26:54):
what sounds good, or I'm really feelinglike I need some more time, or hey,
I'm feeling like something's going on.
Will you please listento me and pay attention?
And a lot of times women get reallycaught up in that people pleasing.
And so one of my big passions isjust to get really good prenatally
and say, hey, let's talk aboutyour people pleasing patterns.
Like what do they look like?
(27:15):
How are they possibly goingto show up during this birth?
and how do you want to show up?
How do you want to showup during this birth?
And what does a positivebirth mean for you?
And that's what I'm goingto support is those things.
The Best Birth [27:05]
I love that.
What are some of the ways we can getfamiliar with the ways that we cope
or the ways that we do people please?
(27:38):
Katie Foerster [27:13]
I love to ask this whenyou're with your partner.
I'll just talk about, okay, thinkabout or journal about, or if you have
a doula, you can have a conversation.
What in life, normal life,when you're feeling stressed,
what does that look like?
Like what things stress you out andhow do you react to that stress?
And a lot of times clients will be like,I don't know, and ask their partner and
(27:59):
it's like, hey, let's have a conversation.
Like for me, a lot of times my firstis I'll get annoyed a lot easier.
Like I get, my senses get very sensitive.
So like, I'll get overwhelmed throughlike sound is a big one for me.
Like my baby crying or loud noiseswill just all of a sudden be too much.
And then touch.
If people touch me like, and my kidshave stuff in my face, I'll get snappy.
(28:20):
And then my second phase,I call it phase two.
Phase two is shut down.
When I'm like, okay,nobody cares, whatever.
I'm just gonna like, I don't care.
I'm strong, I don't care.
I'm gonna shut it down.
Doesn't matter anymore.
And if I get to phase three, whichused to happen not very often,
crying but I'll just get to thepoint where I'm just like I'm just so
overwhelmed this is too much for me.
(28:40):
I've shifted this a lot I'm becauseI became so aware and it was like
is that how I want to show up inthe world is those three phases?
I've gotten a lot better being likehi self I'm overwhelmed now instead
of getting snappy because I feel likeno one's meeting my needs I'm gonna
ask for help or I'm gonna resourcemyself I'm gonna get resources so
I do not move into other phases
(29:02):
and helping clients see, okay,what is the beginning for you?
Do you withdraw?
Are you going to be weepy?
Are you going to be angry?
Or what's the, like if you're just annoyedor stressed, that immediate reaction.
And if that shows up in labor, then Ican say, Hey, I see that you're stressed.
Or your partner can say, Hey babe,it feels like you're stressed.
What do you need?
How can we help you?
(29:23):
Do you want to try this?
Do you want to try something new?
Do you want some water?
Are you hungry?
You know what I mean?
Just say, how can we shift this moment?
And then asking what helpsmost in those situations?
And for me, it's that directness.
Someone looks at me and says,Katie, I see that something's off.
Do you want to talk about it?
And I'm like, yes, I am so annoyedbecause this and this and that and that.
(29:45):
And then I can talk it out and then Imove through it because somebody cares.
And a lot of times that's what we need iswe just need to know that somebody cares.
But having those conversations withyour partner or your birth team
and being like, Hey, this is howI see myself becoming agitated.
Like I could see myself becomingbothered if my partner's on his phone.
That's what I hear a lot.
Like if my partner gets on theirphone, I'm immediately going to
(30:07):
be very easily annoyed becauseit feels like he doesn't care.
And then just let the partner know, Hey,then you need to be, if you're on the
phone updating, like let's talk aboutthe things that are okay on the phone.
Like, are you okay withhim updating people?
And if not, then like, whydon't you ask him to just not
be on the phone in advance?
Like, hey, babe, birth's a big deal.
(30:27):
And I really would love foryou to be present with me.
And one of the things that hurtsme is when you have your phone out.
Do you think it'd be okay if you justput your phone away for the entire birth?
I just, just not have it.
You know what I mean?
Like realizing what bothers me andcan I have a conversation in advance
that will keep it from happening?
The Best Birth [30:10]
(30:51):
Thank you.
Mm.
With birth, are there ways we canprepare beforehand as we head into birth
and thinking about our mental state?
Katie Foerster [30:39]
yes.
And I think the thing is like a lotof people take a birth class and
there's lots of tools and resourcesand options you can use to help
yourself to relax through birth.
(31:13):
Like I could go off for a verylong time on all the possibilities
that exist, but learning theones that really work for you.
Like I had one client,I'll never forget this.
She was taking a hypno breathingclass and she was like, I'm listening
to all the tracks every day.
Cause that's what they told me to do.
I was like, cool.
Which one do you like best?
She's like, I love the colors.
There's a colors one, colorsof peace where you imagine,
(31:34):
yes, the rainbow relaxation.
I love that one.
And I was like, great.
Are there some thatyou don't love as much?
She's like, ugh, I hate the affirmations.
They annoy me so bad.
I was like, why are you listening to them?
She's like, well, they said tolisten to all of them every day.
Like that'll help you.
And I was like, doesn'tsound like it's helping you.
So sometimes there's that level of like,
(31:55):
The Best Birth [31:10]
rainbow relaxation.
Katie Foerster [31:30]
I don't need to do all the things.
I need to find the things that arehelpful for me that really feel impactful.
I always say, we're busy people.
It's a busy world.
Let's find the most impactful things withthe least amount of effort that feel good.
Because if you have naturalmotivation to do something, it's easy.
There's ease.
But if you're trying to force yourselfto prepare in ways that don't even
(32:17):
feel that good, that's not great.
And that's a way you can learnto honor yourself and your
body and what works for you.
is simply to say, okay, I'mlooking up a couple different
guided meditations, for example.
Those can be very helpful to help you turnoff like the thought stream and sink into
more of your body or your subconscious.
And just saying, okay,which ones work best for me?
(32:40):
And I'm going to single inon some of those things.
Are there stretches that makemy body feel really good?
And I feel very like in tunewith my body while I stretch.
Like some people love to doyoga and that's a wonderful
way to prepare body and mind.
One of the simplest ones is the breath.
Like there's a whole bunch of exercisesthat come around just our breath,
because our breath is the bridge.
(33:01):
It's the constant, constantcompanion between us and our bodies.
Like we can always tune into our breath.
It's always there.
It'll be there in the OR.
It'll be there in a natural birth.
It'll be there in transition.
It'll be there postpartum.
And it's always, it's free.
It's easy.
And it's a way that we can really helpourselves relax is learning to tune
into and slow down just our breath.
(33:23):
Just that can be powerfulfor a lot of people.
So finding the things that feel good.
The Best Birth [33:04]
And I think it's important tonote too that there is such
a thing as too much research.
Once we feel like we have our answer,the more we research, maybe we would
get more fear or we would get toooverwhelmed or distracted or unsure.
(33:44):
So once you're sure, gowith that and move on.
Katie Foerster [33:24]
Yes, I would say like, there'sa lot of people do a lot of top
-down preparation, which means theyprepare cerebrally and expect it to
affect their body and their birth.
And then we do not have enough inmost classes and anything of bottoms
up preparation, which is ways that weprepare our bodies that can help our
(34:06):
minds fillet ease and then affect our bodyfrom like the body -based perspective.
And those things can just be eatinga little better, moving our bodies.
being in our sensationsand things like that.
But I agree, some people over researchto the point that they feel like, because
you don't birth in your research brain,that part of your brain is supposed
to turn off when you're in labor.
You're not supposed tobe in your facts brain.
(34:28):
You're supposed to be in yourlike, your animalistic brain, your
body, like your sensual brain, andin those, your emotional brain.
All those are supposedto be on during labor.
So some people gather lots offacts and expect that to be the
thing that carries them through.
but often that's the thingthat gets turned off.
And you're not supposed to access it.
And if you do, you have to comeout of the place you're supposed
(34:50):
to be during labor to access allthe information and then find your
way back in, which can be jarring.
So I agree, you'redefinitely over research.
The Best Birth [34:35]
In the book, resilient by Rick Hansen, hesays, allowing yourself to be vulnerable
during birth doesn't mean you're weak.
It means you are strong enoughto accept help, listen to your
body and trust the process.
(35:11):
Katie Foerster [34:49]
I love that.
The Best Birth [34:50]
Katie, you have been a wealthof knowledge, just this deep
well of beautiful water thathas poured over us and given our
hearts and minds hope for birth.
Do you have any favoriteresources that you'd like to
share with our listeners today?
Katie Foerster [34:57]
Aww.
(35:32):
there's a book called Wakingthe Tiger by Peter Levine.
If you especially are a woman who'sbirthing with a history of trauma, a
history of loss, and honestly, basicallyall of us have some level of developmental
trauma and things we've lived in ourculture that make us, that are very
heavy for us and difficult to overcome.
So trauma can be a trigger wordwhere people are like, I've never
been raped, so I'm not traumatizedor I've never had assault.
(35:55):
But trauma is just a very like, we allhave some trauma we need to move through.
So, but especially those who'vehad a larger event that they
know is very heavy for them.
I love that book.
It's a very accessible way tounderstand trauma and the body and
understand the ways we can supportour bodies in moving through trauma.
I really love that book.
Yeah,
(36:15):
that's one of my favorites.
The Best Birth [35:53]
Thank you.
Our mom squad secret ofthe week is by Helen.
She says proper nutrition and movement,especially after a cesarean section
is vital to full and healthy recovery.
Have a small snack with plant oranimal protein every two hours
to maintain a steady metabolism.
So that's great.
Just in talking about movementand the body and preparing from
(36:37):
the down up, that's, that'sa great way it is nutrition.
Katie Foerster [36:16]
Mmm, for sure.
The Best Birth [36:18]
Well, Katie, is there anythingelse that you'd like to share on
how we can prepare our hearts andminds for pregnancy and birth?
Katie Foerster [36:24]
there's that mixture.
I like to say that I love to livein that space that's between self
-reclamation and self -compassion.
Like, can I reclaim my voice?
Can I reclaim my autonomy?
(36:58):
Can I reclaim that, but not havethese huge expectations of myself?
That I'm setting myself up to fail bythinking that if I do these things,
then everything will go perfect.
Like, can I have that self-compassion in my other hand?
Where I can say, it's okaythat this is moving slow.
It's okay that I'm making a choicethat others might not think is
ideal because it feels right.
(37:18):
And if you can live in that placetogether and especially move those two
energies towards your body, becausethere is a lot to be reclaimed as
women in our society with our bodies.
Even just loving our bodies when they'renot the ideal body is a huge topic, right?
And that comes into birth with us.
But if we can take those twotopics and think, I can hold both
of those in my hands and grow.
(37:40):
For me, that's the key to growthis can I reclaim what there is
to reclaim and love and havecompassion for myself through it all.
So thank you guys for letting me come on.
It's been really great.
I'm always so excited toshare about these things.
I'm grateful for this opportunity.
The Best Birth [37:34]
Thank you so much forbeing on the podcast today.
Katie Foerster [37:36]
(38:01):
Awesome.
Thanks for joining us on today's episode.
We hope you've been elevated andinspired by this week's expert.
Subscribe today so you never missan episode and please share our
podcast or post on your socialmedia so that other moms and dads
to be can also have the best birth.
Please note that the informationprovided is based on the expert's
(38:22):
insights and personal experience.
It is not intended as medical guidance.
Please seek the advice of yourmedical provider as it applies
to your specific condition.
It's the Best Birth Podcast, wherewe interview experts that elevate
you as you prepare your heartand mind to have the best birth.
Each episode will interviewprofessionals so you are prepared
for pregnancy, birth, and postpartum.
Our experts will build your confidenceand empower you to trust your
intuition throughout your pregnancy.
This audio is takenfrom videos on YouTube.
(00:27):
Watch the entire episodes onYouTube at Birth Made Mindful.
The Best Birth [00:01]
You're listening tothe Best Birth Podcast.
Our guest today is Katie Förster, a doulaand we're so excited to talk to her today.
Katie has been a birth doula for sevenyears and has always been fascinated
by the psychosomatic aspects of birth.
The births of each of her four childrenwere transformative in their own way
(00:50):
and she loves to support women as theyprepare for the life -changing threshold
of becoming a mother or a mother again.
Welcome, Katie.
Katie Foerster [00:29]
Hi, I'm excited to be here.
The Best Birth [00:32]
Can you tell us why youwanted to become a doula?
Tell us a little bit aboutyour journey getting there.
Katie Foerster [00:38]
Of course.
So my first birth, I wentinto it with this big ego.
(01:12):
I was like, I have thishigh pain tolerance.
My mom's such a baby and she had seven.
Like I'm not going to have a problem.
This will be fine.
So I didn't put a lot of time orenergy into preparing because I
was just like, Matt, I've got this.
I've always got it.
I'm fine.
It ended up being a very long and very
like difficult experience.
I didn't know how to engage.
I really wanted to go unmedicated,but didn't know how really
(01:35):
to engage with contractions.
I kind of, my husband jokes andsays that I was trying to win.
Like every contraction came andI was like, I'm better than you.
But that doesn't work.
That doesn't work for birth.
I didn't know it at the time,but that birth went very long.
I ended up choosing an epiduraland had a lot of complication,
not complications, but just.
(01:57):
things I didn't want around delivery andwalked away just feeling really defeated.
Like, why did I fail so bad at that?
I thought I'd be good at that.
Why did I fail?
So when I became pregnant again, itwas like, hey, I want to do something
really differently this time.
And I kind of explored all options.
It's like, do I just want to C -section?
Do I just want to opt out?
Like, I don't want to do that again.
(02:18):
That sucked.
But then I decided to take a hypnobirthingclass and that class really like
opened my eyes to a lot of things.
I realized how much...
I had been at odds with my body.
Like I had not known how to letmy body do what it needed to do.
I had tried to be in controlof birth the entire time.
And that revelation waslike, okay, that's not good.
(02:40):
And that probably applies toother parts of my life, right?
But I prepared for that birth verydifferently, very intentionally,
tried to engage with my body, dida lot of like relaxation tracks and
just practice being more present.
And that birth was beautiful.
It was a completely different story.
I went unmedicated, was superhappy with the experience.
(03:00):
It was fast.
She came in like just over two hours.
And after that, I walked awaywith just like this wind, like
just like beneath my wings, right?
It was just like a whole differentexperience becoming a mother after
having such a positive birth.
And my husband joked that wheneverI talked to anybody with a
uterus, that birth would somehowlike come into the conversation.
(03:24):
He's like, you've got todo something with that.
Like that's so much passion.
You need to do something there.
It's obviously something you love.
So we had those two babies in Germany.
That's where I was living at the time.
And then we moved over here and a friendwas like, you should become a doula.
I was like, what's that?
So I looked it up and Iwas like, that's a job.
That's a real job.
(03:45):
So I looked up the next training,took it and never looked back.
The Best Birth [03:20]
That is so fantastic.
I just love hearing about how youapproached birth in a different way
and how it made such a difference.
That concept of like battling againstyour body, even the term birth warrior
can sometimes cause people to feel likethey have to fight and bringing that
(04:08):
sort of energy into your birth whereit's like, I'm going to fight this.
I'm going to fight.
This can be really detrimental insteadof just feeling like I'm going to
surrender to this, or I am going to
Katie Foerster [03:22]
I'm gonna go.
Hmm
The Best Birth [03:50]
to own this.
I'm going to commune with thesecontractions in a way that allows
our body to open and expand andprepare for the delivery of our baby.
(04:30):
Katie Foerster [04:01]
Yeah, totally.
I would agree with that.
The Best Birth [04:03]
Can you tell us a little bit moreabout somatics and that approach?
What does that mean to you?
Katie Foerster [04:10]
So somatics is a relatively new field.
But I think anciently we've alwayshad access to this, but it's just
kind of coming back into our radar.
And basically it's the idea that our bodyis intelligent, that our body is both the
(04:52):
place that we put our trauma and like ourstruggles, that it can store those things.
And that is also the wayto move through them.
So somatics is usuallyconnected to the nervous system.
So understanding what our flight, fightand freeze, fawn responses all are.
and how we can use those responsesto like build out our ability to be
(05:13):
in our bodies and to move through anysort of difficult experiences we have
without it being like lasting traumatic.
Because we're built to be able to handledifficult experiences, it's in us, but
we're in a society where we're kind oftaught to pretend like things aren't hard.
And we're taught to kind of shovedown our difficult emotions, pretend
like we're not grieving, pretend likewe're not angry, like kind of get
(05:35):
over it and move on very quickly.
And somatics is kind of that fieldthat's just learning that if we can
tap into that intelligence of ourbody that is real and there and very
powerful, that we can move through alot of our history and just move into
the future in a way that's very presentand able to handle things that happen
(05:56):
without it becoming overwhelming, likesending us into a state of like flooded
or out of controlness or shut down.
which is where a lot of us live.
That's kind of my patternthat I've recognized is that
I tend to move into shutdown.
That's kind of the, I've got it allcovered, high pain tolerance, right?
It's like, I just don't feel it.
I just don't feel it.
But the body pays a pricewhen we just don't feel it.
(06:18):
Cause somebody has tofeel it cause it's real.
And so somatics and birth, I haven'treally been connected in a big way.
And that's my big passion right now.
I'm teaching like a birth class for doulasabout how to connect kind of that nervous
system somatics with the birth space.
and understanding trauma and itseffects in more of like a body
-based perspective rather than likea psychology mind -based perspective.
(06:40):
So that you teach for our womenso that they can connect their
mind and their body during birth?
Katie Foerster [06:19]
One of the big ones is during pregnancyto just kind of get very conscious.
I call it tracking and that's whatit's called in most of somatics
is learning to track what yourbody's doing, to track your current
feelings and to begin to engage withintense sensation in a safe way.
(07:03):
So one of the ways like a lot ofbirth classes teach is that you
hold a piece of ice in your hand.
You hold it in your hand and you try andsee can I engage with this sensation?
Is it overwhelming to me?
What does my mind do whileI'm holding this piece of ice?
Because your mind mightstart like, let it go.
I want to let it go.
And there may be actual panic thatkind of comes up when you're holding
(07:24):
a piece of ice, even though there's nodanger, it'll just melt into your hand.
There is no present danger.
But if your body has a large reaction tothat, that sensation intensity, then you
can notice, okay, I have some work here tobe done to be able to sit with intensity.
And I think that the
point of it's just to be conscious andjust to understand this is where I'm at.
(07:45):
Like there's no...
it's a long journey to be ableto connect with your body.
We live in a society wherewomen especially are taught
not to trust our bodies.
So learning that throughthat is really helpful.
Mindfulness exercises that are body based.
So not being mindful and likestaying in your brain, but being
mindful and sinking into your body.
(08:06):
Like what do I smell right now?
What can I feel?
How do my clothes feel on my body?
Can I feel the back of my body?
Like that's a big oneis, can I sense my back?
Because a lot of us are so brainand forward oriented that we're
not used to being in our back body.
So a lot of just very, very inwardand like body based preparations
(08:28):
like that can be very powerful.
The Best Birth [08:06]
One of the first times that I reallylike was in tune with the back
of my body, I was scuba diving.
And because I was wearing thetank on my back, it felt as if
there was weight or this pressure.
But then also when you're underwater,you're not in a world like ours because
there's everything that's above you,below you, around you, even though
(08:51):
our eyes are only focused forward.
And it's magical to go scuba diving.
Many people are really afraid ofthe creatures or being underwater.
Katie Foerster [08:12]
Hmm
Mm -hmm.
The Best Birth [08:34]
But then just realizing that I couldsettle in and allow my breath to regulate
and to control, and then you just getto experience the magic that's there.
Katie Foerster [08:45]
Hmm, that sounds super peaceful.
(09:13):
I think that part of the fear is that it'sjust a very different sensation and we're
not used to being with our sensations,like you said, but when we can sit into
it and be like, this is different, canI experiencing it without attaching
fear to it because it is unknown?
And can I let it be newand like just get curious?
And curiosity is a huge part of anybirth preparation can be really powerful.
(09:38):
Can I just be curiousabout what's happening?
Can I be curious about how itfeels to have my stomach grow?
Can I be curious about these newfeelings of guilt that I'm feeling?
Like, where is this coming from?
Can I be curious about the way myrelationship is shifting rather than
feeling like it's all an attack?
Can I just get curious about what'shappening and engage with it in
(09:59):
kind of that way where it's likeI'm tiptoeing towards rather than
trying to resist and shut out?
So.
The Best Birth [09:40]
You spoke of dealing with theintense emotions, learning how
to feel these in our bodies.
What else do you recommendas we're preparing for labor?
Katie Foerster [09:50]
I think that's just it.
Like it sounds so simple, but it'slearning to be okay with things when
(10:22):
they come up and creating space for them.
So noticing today, I am very on edge.
Where do I feel that in my body?
That's a question I ask myselfas I'm trying to learn to engage
better with my body all the time.
Where am I feeling this in my body?
What does this feel like in my body?
And allowing the spaceto just let it come.
(10:43):
I think I used to be very proudof the fact that I was very stoic.
I was like, I just don't, thingsdon't phase me and I'm fine.
And learning to engage my body, engagewith somatics is I've cried so much
more in the last two years than Ithink the rest of my life combined.
Because I just allow itto come without judging.
(11:03):
So a lot of times, I read a post by thison Instagram, it's one of my favorite
posts I think I've ever written.
I was in my first trimesterand my husband, I got really
emotional at something.
My husband was like, it's those hormones.
And I was like, Hmm, like, is itjust the hormones or is this real?
Like that feels so gaslighty.
And I know he didn't mean itto be that way, but I was like,
(11:25):
babe, this is real sadness.
This is not just hormones,just throwing out emotion.
Like this is my sadness.
And maybe because I'm hormonal,I'm less able to keep it under
control, but it's still there.
And so validating ourselves to thatI'm a good person and I'm feeling this.
This does not make me a bad mom.
This does not make me like frustrations.
(11:46):
A big one or their days where it's like,I don't want to be doing this today.
Like I just don't want a mom today.
It's too hard.
I don't want to do it.
And sitting with that fora minute and just saying, I
am feeling very overwhelmed.
Where am I feeling it in my body?
And for me, there's a lot of like,I can feel chaos in my chest.
Like it feels like, likethere's a storm inside my chest.
(12:07):
And just finding the language tosay, okay, where is it in my body?
Can I sit with it?
Can I acknowledge it?
And then move through it.
And there's a lot of releasethat happens when we learn to
say, okay, I can move through.
And this is very powerful for birthbecause we always talk about transition.
Like everybody has this huge emotionalbarrier they come up against.
But in my last birth, after workingwith somatics, I didn't hit a barrier
(12:30):
because I just was writing whatever came.
There was no dam to be unblocked.
And I think transition for a lot of womenis they hit this wall where they don't
know how to deal with that emotion andthe emotion has to come out and it's big.
And a lot of times it can be doubtin themselves or fear of the future,
inability to be with the unknown,the sensations become overwhelming.
(12:53):
And then we hit this big well.
And as we know, a lot oftransition is, does not last.
It's a short thing.
And that's how all emotions are.
They well up, they need to beacknowledged, and then they go back down.
But if you shove them down,there is no resolution.
So I always say emotions like insemantics is very similar to contractions.
We learn to ride them.
(13:14):
We learn to say, okay, here it comes.
And I'm not going to resist.
I'm not going to say,no, no, no, no, no, no.
Cause I know as a doula, anytimeyou see a woman who starts doing
this, that we are not coping.
We're trying to run.
We're in our flight response.
Anger's like, I want to be done.
I want this over.
Why did I do this?
Or like the classic getting mad at your...
Harper, you did this to me, that'syour fight response coming up.
(13:37):
And just realizing like, I am, my nervoussystem's feeling triggered right now.
And in birth that can be verycomforting to say, okay, this
is normal, this is human.
Humans get this way when they're feelingvery big emotions, and this will end.
And so practicing that during pregnancyin like smaller forms can help it be
smoother during birth to be able to say,okay, I can greet this with curiosity, I
(14:01):
can surrender to the bigness and accept.
I am feeling this right now, this is hard.
And then wait for the resolutionthat I can trust will come.
The Best Birth [13:44]
I heard a quote recently that was sayingIt's in the allow not the how and I feel
like that's exactly what we're talkingabout with surrendering and with letting
these big emotions move through usand not allowing them to be a barrier.
(14:24):
Katie Foerster [13:58]
Yeah, I would agree with that for sure.
I love this.
So I wrote a poem.
I talk about it on my podcast.
I have a podcast called Birth Mysticsand I wrote this poem my second
pregnancy and I really love it.
though the waves crash aroundme tumultuous and fierce.
I have nothing to fear for I amnot a ship navigating the storm.
I am Poseidon and the ocean is me.
(14:47):
And I think there's some of thatfear feels like this attack.
And that's where our nervous systemgets riled up because we feel
like something is attacking us.
And a lot of our fears, whether it bea C -section or non -consent from our
doctors or anything that during pregnancyyou feel like, I'm really afraid of
that, I don't want that to happen.
We often see it as this outsidething that's kind of like,
(15:09):
could possibly attack us.
But starting to recognize whetherit be the intensity of labor or
our fears that when we engagewith them, like it's part of us.
This fear is like a warning signal.
It's communication from our subconscioussaying there's something here we
need to have a plan or an idea ora better understanding of so that
(15:31):
it doesn't feel dangerous anymore.
So we know, okay, if that were tohappen, here's what I would do.
Or here's the chances of that happening.
So I have an appropriateamount of worry about it.
Cause sometimes we worry aboutsomething super, super un...
something that's not very likelyto happen, but we worry about it
as if it was likely to happen.
(15:51):
So a lot of times just engaging onceagain, that curiosity of high fear or
high intensity, what is the message?
What is the learning that you holdfor me that I can take and either
search for more understanding orunderstand myself better through?
So.
The Best Birth [15:46]
Being able to walk through those fearsduring pregnancy and even create a plan.
(16:15):
What would I do in this situation?
You know, so let's say your waterbreaks before your contractions start.
What is my plan?
What is my next step?
Or, you know, just like taking anyscenario from your birth plan and
actually walking to the edge of thatfear beyond that fear is going to
allow your body to be able to releaseand to kind of walk down a path that
(16:38):
you have mentally walked before.
Katie Foerster [16:07]
Thank you.
Yes.
And also, how am I goingto resource myself?
Like, what resources am I going todraw on if this thing I really don't
want to happen happens so that I canfeel supported, seen, held, loved,
even if I'm doing this thing thatI really don't want to have to do?
(16:58):
What resources do I have and howcan I engage with them, right?
It's also, because planning, a lot ofit's like planning is very cerebral.
And it is important that we have thatunderstanding to like soothe our logic
mind But that sometimes isn't enoughto sink down, but if we know okay Even
if I end up in my worst case My partnerknows what to say and what to do and I
(17:21):
we know how to connect with each otherso that I will feel like We're together.
I know who I can reach outto who's knowledgeable.
I know ways I can soothe myself Soresourcing can just be I know that I love
this music, I can ask to havethis music on during my C -section
because that's really helpful for me.
Like for me, the ocean waves, it's likethat was on through my entire last labor.
(17:43):
It was just the sound of the ocean.
And so I know that that's for me, acue to cue safety, to cue calmness.
And so understanding your ownpersonal resources and seeing how
they could support you in thosefears if they were to be actualized.
The Best Birth [17:35]
For the birth of my third son, I choseto have a home birth and the amount of
(18:04):
people that would ask me, well, what ifyou have to transfer to the hospital?
And as I started processing that myself,I thought we all utilize the resources
that we need at the time we need them.
Some of us choose to experienceour labor and our delivery and
our postpartum care at a hospital.
And as I was thinking about it,there was no sense of failure
(18:28):
to transfer to the hospital.
I said, my plan is to labor at home,to push my baby out at home and to stay
at home But if at any time I need theresources that a hospital can provide,
I'll transfer there and I'll utilizethose resources and the medical staff and
their training to benefit me and my baby.
And so there was no sense ofurgency or fear or, trepidation.
(18:52):
If this event happens, likethis is where we'll go.
And it gave me a huge sense of reliefand peace and a lot of other individuals
who are looking outside, all thatthey see is the fact that you'll be
a few minutes away from, assistanceif you have a medical emergency.
But in my mind, I wanted to createan environment that was quiet and
(19:14):
solitude and without the distractions,without that element of time.
what if I show up to the hospitaland I'm only two centimeters dilated?
What if I feel like I have to push andthen we don't make it to the hospital.
I wanted to be in my own home whereI could allow my body to birth
on whatever timeline it chose.
And that birth to me was an incredibleevidence of allowing our bodies to perform
(19:42):
in the way that, that they want to, andthe timeline that they have instead of.
Katie Foerster [18:58]
Yeah.
The Best Birth [19:22]
Trying to be on a different timelineand not to inconvenience a provider.
It was really magical.
Katie Foerster [19:29]
I love that for you.
That's beautiful.
I think that that's really healthy tosay, I see the hospital as a resource.
And a lot of people who do a homebirth really don't want that.
(20:04):
I plan when I was planning my firstout of hospital birth, so I have four
kids, the first two I told you about.
My third was a birth center.
My fourth was at home.
And I think for my like getting reallycurious about why is one of my holdups.
One of mine was I'm a doula.
I should not have things happen.
Like things should go smoothly.
because I know so much, right?
(20:24):
And like that was some sort ofinsurance that things would go well.
But I had to learn like,no, I need to trust my body.
And if my body needs help,I need to be okay with that.
I can't, I shouldn't be judging mybody if I end up needing assistance.
Like if I actually truly trust my body,like we talk about a lot in the natural
home birth community, like a lot of peoplechoose home birth because they want to
(20:45):
let their body do what it needs to do.
But does that trust end if yourbody needs medical support?
Do you know, like for some women Ifeel like that is a holdup where it's
like if I transfer I failed or mybody's failed or why couldn't my body
just do it the way it's supposed to.
But if you need help then your bodyneeds help and that's what it needs.
And taking kind of thatjudgment out of it, right?
(21:07):
And I think that's reallywhat it comes down to.
I love the births where women canreally be in their bodies and you can
see a difference like when they'retrying to think through what they're
doing like, was this position?
a good upright position from thisclass I took, or when they're asking
their bodies, what do you need?
When they're actually in their bodies andget in the most, I love when women get
(21:30):
in just these interesting positions ormake whatever noise they feel like their
body needs in order to cope, becausethat's an embodied birth is saying, okay,
I've learned all this, I've gathered allthese resources and now I'm hands off.
And now I'm going to followwhatever comes and however I
feel and whatever feels good.
without feeling like I need topeople please those around me.
(21:51):
That's a huge thing at the hospitalis that they've got this kind of
idea of this is how one should act.
You don't want to be a difficultpatient, but at home there's a lot
more space just to be whatever youneed to be and to act however you need
to act to get your baby out, right?
So I think that's really beautiful.
The Best Birth [21:45]
I've had three cesarean sectionsplanning to have a fourth baby.
(22:13):
I don't know how thatbirth is going to go.
You know, most of the time we, we canplan, but we don't know how it will go.
And already I feel so empowered bythis podcast and just making the best
birth for you and what that lookslike with my other three births.
I didn't really have alot of birth knowledge.
I kind of just went along withtrusting the professionals and
(22:34):
this is what they said to do.
And so I did it and justgiving myself grace for.
Katie Foerster [21:49]
you
The Best Birth [22:14]
what I knew at the time andmoving on towards that moving
forward and not judging myselffor what I knew at the time.
Katie Foerster [22:22]
Yeah, I think that's beautiful.
It's like how can I hold thatcompassion in my heart that I did
the best I could with the knowledgeI had at the time and use it to move
(22:57):
forward and maybe make decisions.
I want to show up in the world differentlynow without judging the way I used to.
So I think sometimes we are changing,we feel like regret or judgment towards
the things we're changing away from.
But I love that it's likeI did the best I could.
I had three jurisdictions,I have three babies.
And what are some ways, whether it'sa C -section or any other choice
(23:18):
I decide to make that feels right?
Like that sounds so simple,but what feels right for me?
And if the C -section feels right, whatare some things and resources I can
use to help myself feel more connected?
Like there's like gentle caesareans andfamily centered caesareans now that are
becoming more and more, more and moreused where you can have like the music on.
(23:38):
You ask the staff to keep their voicelow, skin to skin as soon as possible.
They have like clear drapes and allof these are beautiful resources
and options to help us to not havefeel like it's so black and white.
Like either I have a connected birth orI have a C -section and C -sections full
disconnection out of control medical.
Like a lot of times I'll havedual clients who end up with a C
-section are kind of like, well, Idon't know if I need you anymore.
(24:00):
And I'm like, you do.
I trust me.
Like I can still help so much to helpthis feel like a positive connected
experience, even though it's not the routethat you were originally planning to take.
So I think that's beautiful that you'rekind of thinking about how can I.
really be in my authenticity and be inwhat feels good and not feel like you're
(24:20):
moving into the birth community now withthis podcast and different things to not
feel like, I have to do it a differentway because I have more knowledge,
but to let that bring you full circle.
Cause that's the pendulum sometimes.
The pendulum swings fromfull medical to I don't trust
anything medical, full natural.
And we have to find that middleground of I trust my body and
I know that medical births arenecessary and it can be helpful.
(24:43):
and write for peopleto have medical births.
The Best Birth [24:23]
So Katie, because you support womenin their births, what are some of the
things that you have seen in labor thatcan really give that power to a family?
Katie Foerster [24:36]
I think just one of the bigthings is just saying things
(25:04):
in a way that is not leading.
Like just my language beinglanguage of what's right for you.
Here's some ideas.
Are you feeling good?
Check -ins.
Are you feeling good aboutwhat's happening right now?
Do you need more space asyou're making this decision?
Because a lot of times, especiallyin hospital births, but I hear this
at home as well, people feel liketheir provider's making a suggestion.
(25:28):
because of their own peoplepleasing tendencies, it
doesn't feel like a suggestion.
It feels like what they should be doingbecause, it's my medical professional.
They know better than me.
So I'll just do that.
But really giving people that spaceto say there are other options.
Is that what feels right?
Do you need a minute to check inwith yourself and sit with it if
(25:48):
this is the way forward for you?
And then also just holding thatspace for them to say no and being
that kind of buffer where it's like.
Okay, do you want some time to decide?
Should we have the staff, themidwife leave the room while
you guys have a discussion?
And then when we come back, youcan let us know what feels right.
And then reminding you, okay, ifyou want to say no, you can say no.
(26:09):
It's okay to say no.
It's okay to say yes,whatever feels right for you.
But making sure they have someone who'slike really just saying that's the power
of a doula in a lot of ways is that...
It's just this safe space.
And that's where some doulas, Ithink, struggle a little bit not
to bring their bias into the space.
But that's where I feel like my entiredoula journey, I've gone my path, right?
(26:32):
And I finally landed at a placewhere I'm like, you are the only
one who knows, the only one whoknows what a positive birth means.
And you are the only one who knowswhat is happening in your body.
Nobody else, not me, notthe provider, nobody.
And so you're the one.
who you need to express that.
You need to be able to say, this iswhy I'm feeling is right, or this is
(26:54):
what sounds good, or I'm really feelinglike I need some more time, or hey,
I'm feeling like something's going on.
Will you please listento me and pay attention?
And a lot of times women get reallycaught up in that people pleasing.
And so one of my big passions isjust to get really good prenatally
and say, hey, let's talk aboutyour people pleasing patterns.
Like what do they look like?
(27:15):
How are they possibly goingto show up during this birth?
and how do you want to show up?
How do you want to showup during this birth?
And what does a positivebirth mean for you?
And that's what I'm goingto support is those things.
The Best Birth [27:05]
I love that.
What are some of the ways we can getfamiliar with the ways that we cope
or the ways that we do people please?
(27:38):
Katie Foerster [27:13]
I love to ask this whenyou're with your partner.
I'll just talk about, okay, thinkabout or journal about, or if you have
a doula, you can have a conversation.
What in life, normal life,when you're feeling stressed,
what does that look like?
Like what things stress you out andhow do you react to that stress?
And a lot of times clients will be like,I don't know, and ask their partner and
(27:59):
it's like, hey, let's have a conversation.
Like for me, a lot of times my firstis I'll get annoyed a lot easier.
Like I get, my senses get very sensitive.
So like, I'll get overwhelmed throughlike sound is a big one for me.
Like my baby crying or loud noiseswill just all of a sudden be too much.
And then touch.
If people touch me like, and my kidshave stuff in my face, I'll get snappy.
(28:20):
And then my second phase,I call it phase two.
Phase two is shut down.
When I'm like, okay,nobody cares, whatever.
I'm just gonna like, I don't care.
I'm strong, I don't care.
I'm gonna shut it down.
Doesn't matter anymore.
And if I get to phase three, whichused to happen not very often,
crying but I'll just get to thepoint where I'm just like I'm just so
overwhelmed this is too much for me.
(28:40):
I've shifted this a lot I'm becauseI became so aware and it was like
is that how I want to show up inthe world is those three phases?
I've gotten a lot better being likehi self I'm overwhelmed now instead
of getting snappy because I feel likeno one's meeting my needs I'm gonna
ask for help or I'm gonna resourcemyself I'm gonna get resources so
I do not move into other phases
(29:02):
and helping clients see, okay,what is the beginning for you?
Do you withdraw?
Are you going to be weepy?
Are you going to be angry?
Or what's the, like if you're just annoyedor stressed, that immediate reaction.
And if that shows up in labor, then Ican say, Hey, I see that you're stressed.
Or your partner can say, Hey babe,it feels like you're stressed.
What do you need?
How can we help you?
(29:23):
Do you want to try this?
Do you want to try something new?
Do you want some water?
Are you hungry?
You know what I mean?
Just say, how can we shift this moment?
And then asking what helpsmost in those situations?
And for me, it's that directness.
Someone looks at me and says,Katie, I see that something's off.
Do you want to talk about it?
And I'm like, yes, I am so annoyedbecause this and this and that and that.
(29:45):
And then I can talk it out and then Imove through it because somebody cares.
And a lot of times that's what we need iswe just need to know that somebody cares.
But having those conversations withyour partner or your birth team
and being like, Hey, this is howI see myself becoming agitated.
Like I could see myself becomingbothered if my partner's on his phone.
That's what I hear a lot.
Like if my partner gets on theirphone, I'm immediately going to
(30:07):
be very easily annoyed becauseit feels like he doesn't care.
And then just let the partner know, Hey,then you need to be, if you're on the
phone updating, like let's talk aboutthe things that are okay on the phone.
Like, are you okay withhim updating people?
And if not, then like, whydon't you ask him to just not
be on the phone in advance?
Like, hey, babe, birth's a big deal.
(30:27):
And I really would love foryou to be present with me.
And one of the things that hurtsme is when you have your phone out.
Do you think it'd be okay if you justput your phone away for the entire birth?
I just, just not have it.
You know what I mean?
Like realizing what bothers me andcan I have a conversation in advance
that will keep it from happening?
The Best Birth [30:10]
(30:51):
Thank you.
Mm.
With birth, are there ways we canprepare beforehand as we head into birth
and thinking about our mental state?
Katie Foerster [30:39]
yes.
And I think the thing is like a lotof people take a birth class and
there's lots of tools and resourcesand options you can use to help
yourself to relax through birth.
(31:13):
Like I could go off for a verylong time on all the possibilities
that exist, but learning theones that really work for you.
Like I had one client,I'll never forget this.
She was taking a hypno breathingclass and she was like, I'm listening
to all the tracks every day.
Cause that's what they told me to do.
I was like, cool.
Which one do you like best?
She's like, I love the colors.
There's a colors one, colorsof peace where you imagine,
(31:34):
yes, the rainbow relaxation.
I love that one.
And I was like, great.
Are there some thatyou don't love as much?
She's like, ugh, I hate the affirmations.
They annoy me so bad.
I was like, why are you listening to them?
She's like, well, they said tolisten to all of them every day.
Like that'll help you.
And I was like, doesn'tsound like it's helping you.
So sometimes there's that level of like,
(31:55):
The Best Birth [31:10]
rainbow relaxation.
Katie Foerster [31:30]
I don't need to do all the things.
I need to find the things that arehelpful for me that really feel impactful.
I always say, we're busy people.
It's a busy world.
Let's find the most impactful things withthe least amount of effort that feel good.
Because if you have naturalmotivation to do something, it's easy.
There's ease.
But if you're trying to force yourselfto prepare in ways that don't even
(32:17):
feel that good, that's not great.
And that's a way you can learnto honor yourself and your
body and what works for you.
is simply to say, okay, I'mlooking up a couple different
guided meditations, for example.
Those can be very helpful to help you turnoff like the thought stream and sink into
more of your body or your subconscious.
And just saying, okay,which ones work best for me?
(32:40):
And I'm going to single inon some of those things.
Are there stretches that makemy body feel really good?
And I feel very like in tunewith my body while I stretch.
Like some people love to doyoga and that's a wonderful
way to prepare body and mind.
One of the simplest ones is the breath.
Like there's a whole bunch of exercisesthat come around just our breath,
because our breath is the bridge.
(33:01):
It's the constant, constantcompanion between us and our bodies.
Like we can always tune into our breath.
It's always there.
It'll be there in the OR.
It'll be there in a natural birth.
It'll be there in transition.
It'll be there postpartum.
And it's always, it's free.
It's easy.
And it's a way that we can really helpourselves relax is learning to tune
into and slow down just our breath.
(33:23):
Just that can be powerfulfor a lot of people.
So finding the things that feel good.
The Best Birth [33:04]
And I think it's important tonote too that there is such
a thing as too much research.
Once we feel like we have our answer,the more we research, maybe we would
get more fear or we would get toooverwhelmed or distracted or unsure.
(33:44):
So once you're sure, gowith that and move on.
Katie Foerster [33:24]
Yes, I would say like, there'sa lot of people do a lot of top
-down preparation, which means theyprepare cerebrally and expect it to
affect their body and their birth.
And then we do not have enough inmost classes and anything of bottoms
up preparation, which is ways that weprepare our bodies that can help our
(34:06):
minds fillet ease and then affect our bodyfrom like the body -based perspective.
And those things can just be eatinga little better, moving our bodies.
being in our sensationsand things like that.
But I agree, some people over researchto the point that they feel like, because
you don't birth in your research brain,that part of your brain is supposed
to turn off when you're in labor.
You're not supposed tobe in your facts brain.
(34:28):
You're supposed to be in yourlike, your animalistic brain, your
body, like your sensual brain, andin those, your emotional brain.
All those are supposedto be on during labor.
So some people gather lots offacts and expect that to be the
thing that carries them through.
but often that's the thingthat gets turned off.
And you're not supposed to access it.
And if you do, you have to comeout of the place you're supposed
(34:50):
to be during labor to access allthe information and then find your
way back in, which can be jarring.
So I agree, you'redefinitely over research.
The Best Birth [34:35]
In the book, resilient by Rick Hansen, hesays, allowing yourself to be vulnerable
during birth doesn't mean you're weak.
It means you are strong enoughto accept help, listen to your
body and trust the process.
(35:11):
Katie Foerster [34:49]
I love that.
The Best Birth [34:50]
Katie, you have been a wealthof knowledge, just this deep
well of beautiful water thathas poured over us and given our
hearts and minds hope for birth.
Do you have any favoriteresources that you'd like to
share with our listeners today?
Katie Foerster [34:57]
Aww.
(35:32):
there's a book called Wakingthe Tiger by Peter Levine.
If you especially are a woman who'sbirthing with a history of trauma, a
history of loss, and honestly, basicallyall of us have some level of developmental
trauma and things we've lived in ourculture that make us, that are very
heavy for us and difficult to overcome.
So trauma can be a trigger wordwhere people are like, I've never
been raped, so I'm not traumatizedor I've never had assault.
(35:55):
But trauma is just a very like, we allhave some trauma we need to move through.
So, but especially those who'vehad a larger event that they
know is very heavy for them.
I love that book.
It's a very accessible way tounderstand trauma and the body and
understand the ways we can supportour bodies in moving through trauma.
I really love that book.
Yeah,
(36:15):
that's one of my favorites.
The Best Birth [35:53]
Thank you.
Our mom squad secret ofthe week is by Helen.
She says proper nutrition and movement,especially after a cesarean section
is vital to full and healthy recovery.
Have a small snack with plant oranimal protein every two hours
to maintain a steady metabolism.
So that's great.
Just in talking about movementand the body and preparing from
(36:37):
the down up, that's, that'sa great way it is nutrition.
Katie Foerster [36:16]
Mmm, for sure.
The Best Birth [36:18]
Well, Katie, is there anythingelse that you'd like to share on
how we can prepare our hearts andminds for pregnancy and birth?
Katie Foerster [36:24]
there's that mixture.
I like to say that I love to livein that space that's between self
-reclamation and self -compassion.
Like, can I reclaim my voice?
Can I reclaim my autonomy?
(36:58):
Can I reclaim that, but not havethese huge expectations of myself?
That I'm setting myself up to fail bythinking that if I do these things,
then everything will go perfect.
Like, can I have that self-compassion in my other hand?
Where I can say, it's okaythat this is moving slow.
It's okay that I'm making a choicethat others might not think is
ideal because it feels right.
(37:18):
And if you can live in that placetogether and especially move those two
energies towards your body, becausethere is a lot to be reclaimed as
women in our society with our bodies.
Even just loving our bodies when they'renot the ideal body is a huge topic, right?
And that comes into birth with us.
But if we can take those twotopics and think, I can hold both
of those in my hands and grow.
(37:40):
For me, that's the key to growthis can I reclaim what there is
to reclaim and love and havecompassion for myself through it all.
So thank you guys for letting me come on.
It's been really great.
I'm always so excited toshare about these things.
I'm grateful for this opportunity.
The Best Birth [37:34]
Thank you so much forbeing on the podcast today.
Katie Foerster [37:36]
(38:01):
Awesome.
Thanks for joining us on today's episode.
We hope you've been elevated andinspired by this week's expert.
Subscribe today so you never missan episode and please share our
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to be can also have the best birth.
Please note that the informationprovided is based on the expert's
(38:22):
insights and personal experience.
It is not intended as medical guidance.
Please seek the advice of yourmedical provider as it applies
to your specific condition.
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