August 31, 2024 • 44 mins
Kelly Dean, founder of the Tummy Team, shares her journey of discovering the importance of core strength and functional mobility before and after pregnancy. She emphasizes the need for awareness of proper posture and alignment, as well as the coordination between the core and pelvic floor. Kelly provides practical tips and exercises to strengthen the core and improve overall well-being. She also highlights the significance of the fourth trimester and the importance of allowing the body time to heal after childbirth. Kelly's approach focuses on empowering women to feel strong and connected to their bodies throughout their motherhood journey.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction and Background of Kelly Dean 06:17 The Importance of Core Strength and Functional Mobility 13:23 Posture and Alignment for a Strong Core 26:43 Honoring the Fourth Trimester: Allowing the Body to Heal 39:26 Small Changes, Big Impact: Incorporating Core Strengthening into Daily Life 43:47 Empowering Women: Seeking Support and Resources for a Healthy Motherhood Journey
RESOURCES Book - Hands Free Mama - Rachel Macy Stafford “When you finally let go of perfection, you discover it wasn’t necessary to carry all that weight to become the person you were meant to be.”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
It's the Best Birth Podcast, wherewe interview experts that elevate
you as you prepare your heartand mind to have the best birth.
Each episode will interviewprofessionals so you are prepared
for pregnancy, birth, and postpartum.
Our experts will build your confidenceand empower you to trust your
intuition throughout your pregnancy.
This audio is takenfrom videos on YouTube.
(00:27):
Watch the entire episodes onYouTube at Birth Made Mindful.
[00:02] Welcome to the Best Birth podcast.
We are so excited for our episode today.
We have our guest, Kelly Dean,the founder of the Tummy Team, and
she is going to teach us all aboutour core before labor and after.
Kelly Dean is a physical therapistand founder of the Tummy Team.
(00:49):
She has over 25 years of experience,but was motivated to do this work
because of her own motherhood journey.
She personally struggled withfive miscarriages and three
complicated full term births.
Her own motherhood journey lefther feeling broken and weak.
She discovered she had a six fingerdiastasis and severe functional
(01:09):
core weaknesses that no one inthe medical field could address.
So she created what she needed.
Now she works with clients aroundthe globe, teaches at a university.
and professional conferences andis on a mission to help women
know better so they can have abetter experience throughout their
pregnancy, birth, recovery and beyond.
Thank you so much for being here, Kelly.
(01:30):
Kelly Dean [01:03]
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having me.
I love talking about this.
I feel like when we knowbetter, we can do better, right?
The Best Birth [01:12]
And we would love to hear just thebasics of how you got into this very
specific field of helping our core's.
Kelly Dean [01:23]
(01:50):
Well, yeah, like my bio kind of said, I'vebeen a physical therapist for a long time.
It's so weird to say 25 years.
It's hard to think that you'vedone anything for 25 years.
But I was, when I was, Iwas a collegiate athlete.
So I was a swimmer in highschool and through college.
(02:11):
I swam on a athletic scholarship.
It was like my job.
And so I was always really,
in tune with my body and I dida lot of fitness and I thought
I knew how it was gonna be.
I thought I was just gonna beable to have a baby and do all
this stuff and bounce right back.
(02:31):
And that's not exactly how it worked.
And so when I first was in my firstpart of physical therapy, I was more
of a stroke and brain injury therapist.
I worked a lot in neuromuscular re -ed.
So not so much outpatient.
Not like what a lot of times people thinkabout when they go see a pelvic floor PT.
(02:54):
But my body kind of fell apart with allof the bursts, all the miscarriages, and
all the things I was trying to do to kindof, what I thought I needed to do to keep
myself strong was all the wrong things.
And I didn't know it.
I thought I was doing the right things.
I was doing lots of sit -ups and crunches.
I was running.
(03:15):
I was...
trying to do some things.
I was also doing yoga and Pilates andI thought I was doing all the right
things, but my body kind of was likefalling apart little by little with
each consecutive birth and the traumaof my birth and of the losses also
I know now really contributed to notreally being connected to my core, but
(03:38):
I didn't realize it was a core issue.
I thought it was just a try harder issue.
you know, I thought it was just do more.
and I, I kind of was surprised with mysister -in -law who's also a PT, saw
me at like a, Thanksgiving vacation andit's like, I think you have a diastasis.
(03:59):
And then she checked me and I had that sixfinger separation in my abdominal wall.
And it was just this eye opening moment,that I was like, there's something wrong.
And I thought, you know,
I could just rehab this, but therewas nobody really doing rehab.
Everybody was like, I don'tknow how you can fix that.
(04:20):
All of my colleagues, allof my friends that did PT,
nobody really knew what to do.
And a lot of people are like, Ithink you need to have surgery.
It's really bad.
So I went down the surgery route to kindof see, and that was mortifying because
they made it about like belly fat and youneed a tummy tuck and all of these things.
And I was like, but I am literally,
(04:41):
falling apart, my back hurt, I was wettingmy pants, my SI joint was always out,
I had all kinds of digestive issues, Ilooked six months pregnant all the time.
And I had very, like in hindsight, Icould see I had very little capacity for
new learning, for emotional stuff, forany of those kinds of things, you know?
(05:04):
And so I
kind of started figuring it out.
It's weird because at first I thought I'mjust going to save for the surgery, right?
And, in the meantime, I met with like,I had a bunch of girlfriends over
for, it was like a birthday dinnerand they were like, we should go.
Our kids are getting older.
We should go on a cruise together.
(05:26):
And I was like, I haveto save for surgery.
And they're like, why?
And so I started telling them andthey all lay down on the floor in
my living room and I check all ofthem and they all had like four or
five, six finger wide diastasis.
And I had this thing, like I was like,
wait a second, what is happening here?
Right?
Like either this is normal,which I knew it wasn't normal.
(05:48):
Or this is an epidemic, whichturns out it's kind of an epidemic.
And so all of those friendsstarted looking up stuff.
They're like, we're not getting surgery.
Let's figure this out.
And, and they startedsending me stuff to look at.
And they're like, youneed to look at this.
You need to look at that.
And I started looking at whatpeople were doing and there were
pieces of the puzzle out there.
(06:08):
but not the full puzzle.
And so I just kept workingat it, working on it.
And then I shared it at my mom'sgroup at my church and I checked 38
women and 36 of them had a diastasis.
And then my friend, my other friend said,it's like you have a little tummy team.
You're teaching everybodyhow to fix their tummy.
(06:29):
And that's how the tummy team came about.
And it's evolved since then, but.
You know, I think a lot of thingsthat we're passionate about come
from something that we've experiencedourselves and we want to help people
not go through what we went through.
The Best Birth [06:16]
Yes.
And I love how on your websiteit says just because it's
common, doesn't mean it's normal.
And it is everywhere and we hear about it.
(06:52):
Let's dive into how we can fix it.
So you talked about the puzzle pieces.
Can you tell us maybe what some of thosepieces were that you found that could
have been helpful, but maybe you didnot include the full picture of healing.
Kelly Dean [06:27]
Yeah.
Yes, I can.
I try to be really careful becauseI never want to talk disparagingly
(07:12):
about anybody else doing this workbecause I feel like anybody that does
this work is passionate about it.
So I'm not going to use names ofdifferent programs because I just
feel like that's not helpful.
But what I did find is the biggestthing I, the first thing I learned was
(07:34):
about the transverse abdominus muscle.
which is the deepest corsetcore muscle of our body.
We all know about our crunch muscle,like the rectus abdominis muscle and the
oblique muscle, but I started learningthat the transverse muscle is this muscle
that wraps around and pull you together.
So that was really like, Idon't even remember learning
(07:56):
about that muscle in school.
I'm sure we did, but itwasn't high on the radar.
We were learning about arms andlegs, you know, and not much about
those deep stabilizing muscles.
So I learned about that.
But then what I found wasmost of the things out there
were a series of exercises.
You know, do all these exercises on yourback, do all these exercises in hands
(08:18):
and knees, do all of these exercisessitting up and do millions of them a day.
And I was desperate like most people.
And so I started out doing the desperatething and it was not sustainable.
And it also, so,
So then I started feeling guilty becauseI wasn't doing enough because remember
how I thought it was a try harder problem.
(08:39):
So that just fed rightinto that try harder.
So it was like too much.
The other thing I learned about wassplinting using an abdominal rehab
splint to kind of pull the right andleft side together to help it heal.
And I thought like there was a lot ofmixed information out there about that.
But what I found was, thishelps me feel that muscle.
(09:02):
but there were some programs thathave you do it really tight and
do it for a really long time.
And as a physical therapist, I kind ofrealized like, if I, I need to put an
ACE wrap on a sprained ankle to walkon that ankle, but if I do it super
tight and never take it off, it's notgoing to help the angle long -term.
So like there's a rolefor it, but not forever.
(09:24):
And then I think the biggest thingI learned, and this came back
from like my stroke and braininjury kind of background was that
no matter how many exercises Ido, if it didn't move into how I
lived my life every day, then itwasn't going to impact things.
Like it had to have afunctional component of it.
(09:45):
So if how I'm bending over to pick upthe socks and the Legos off the floor
all day long is like a crunch pushing outon my tummy all day long, then I'm going
to be one step forward, two steps back.
So I had to figure out how to.
how to make it work in real life because Iwas a mom, I had little kids and I wasn't
going to be at the gym all the time.
(10:07):
but I still needed to be strongand feel better for motherhood.
So I think the big things that I learnedwas I needed to actually ironically
stop all the core work I was doingbecause it was using the wrong muscles.
I needed to find a balance betweenhow to activate the rest right muscles
and then how to use them functionally.
(10:27):
And then I needed to recognize what,
postures and what things werekeeping my body from healing.
Like the body has anatural capacity to heal.
I believe we're supposed tohave babies and not fall apart.
So why was I not healing?
And that was kind of the, thosewere the really big things that I
started seeing were missing fromthe information that was out there.
(10:49):
There was a lot of like littleYouTube videos and programs
on doing certain exercises.
but there wasn't this bigpicture of like, how does this
look in a real life situation?
The Best Birth [10:32]
So when you talk a little bit aboutfunctional mobility, can you give us
a few examples of postures or thingsthat we commonly might do wrong?
Kelly Dean [10:41]
Yeah.
And, and it's not necessarily wrong.
(11:11):
It's like we, if we don'tknow, we don't know.
Right.
But the biggest, I think thebiggest thing I can tell every mom
listening to this that you coulddo for your core is elongate.
You guys both did it.
Right.
Because the internal, if youthink about what your core muscles
(11:33):
are, they wrap around your torso.
The Best Birth [11:01]
I
Kelly Dean [11:09]
They connect your pelvisand your rib cage together.
They hold your organs in place.
They make you taller.
They stabilize your spine.
They, they support your pelvicfloor and they support the uterus
when you're pregnant, right?
Though that's what those muscles do.
If you think about what we doall day long, it's upright.
(11:55):
We do very few things thatare active laying down.
Most of their active day is sitting,standing, walking is upright.
Our body was designed forthat postural muscles.
to hold us upright.
So they are postural, structural,digestive and respiratory in nature.
(12:16):
And whatever we do, the most wins.
So no matter if you spend six hoursat the gym every day, who does that?
But some people maybe, you stillhave, you know, another what?
18 hours a day?
So what you're doing the most wins.
And if we can elongate, whenyou guys elongated, you felt
your core just did something.
It had to do something,whether you can maintain it or
(12:38):
not is another story, right?
But we have to start somewhere.
And if we can just think about theposture of how we're sitting, how we're
standing, how we're pushing the stroller,how we're picking up the car seat, how
we're unloading the dishwasher, howwe're nursing our babies, how we're
going to the bathroom, all of the things,how we're cleaning our house, how all
(13:00):
the things we do throughout the day,your core has a role in those things.
And I don't train you tooverthink those things.
I give you the foundational partand then I help you build it into
all of those things, which makes itnot only doable, but sustainable.
And then it makes your life be yourworkout because motherhood is a workout.
(13:22):
If it wasn't, we wouldn't be soexhausted at the end of the day.
Right.
So like it, let's make it workfor us instead of against us.
The Best Birth [13:03]
And are most of the things that we cando just like bringing conscious awareness
or are there actual tools like, youknow, like a belly band or like one of
those shoulder posture things that I'msure you've seen, and I'm not sure if
those are like a negative or a positive.
(13:44):
can you tell us a little bitabout how we can go about just
like bringing awareness to that?
Kelly Dean [13:22]
Well, what I tell everybody is50 % of the solution is awareness.
And then the other 50 % istools and strategies.
Okay?
So first, the reason I say 50%, and that'sa huge percentage, is just awareness.
(14:05):
So this is a lifeline to thatmom that is exhausted and
can't think of one more thing.
Awareness is 50 % of the solutionbecause our body has a capacity to
heal if we're not going against it.
So when I say awareness,
Posture is one of it and watching how manythings you are doing that are pushing out
and pulling apart your abdominal wall.
(14:27):
And those are usually things thatif you think about your pelvis,
your pelvis is like a bowl and yourrib cage like an upside down bowl.
I kind of tell people like two sidesof one of those plastic Easter eggs.
We want those to be aligned and elongated.
So when we are in a collapsedposition, like the...
(14:48):
typical nursing posturethat collapsed position.
It's like doing a crunch all day.
And when we do a crunch, weround and our belly pushes out.
Everybody that's listening to thishas had to do a crunch or chosen
to do a crunch in their life.
And they can think back and think, didmy tummy get flatter or did it push out?
It pushed out, right?
So avoiding things that arealways pushing out on your tummy.
(15:14):
So that's not just crunches,but how sitting collapsed.
holding our breath and bearing down,doing hmmmm stuff which pushes out,
those kinds of things, things that arepushing out, pushing out, pushing out.
If we can minimize and eliminatethat, you're gonna get halfway there.
And that was so true for mebecause I was doing lots and lots
(15:35):
of crunches every night and Ihad a six finger wide diastasis.
And when I learned about what thetransverse was and what it did and how
it elongated me and I just eliminatedit, it sounded so counterintuitive.
I eliminated the crunches.
I went from a six finger down to athree finger just by stopping doing the
things that were causing the damage.
(15:57):
It's kind of like if you have a leak inyour bath and you're in your basement,
you could spend all day with towelsand buckets, but if nobody turns
off the water, you're going nowhere.
So half of it is just that awarenesspart of knowing what's keeping your body
from healing and how the muscle works.
So that's the first half,not to be underestimated.
The second half is connecting to thatmuscle because if it's gotten stretched
(16:21):
out with pregnancy, if you're disconnectedfrom it because of trauma, or if you
had chronic habits of collapsing orpushing out, then you have to kind of
rewire your brain belly connection.
And we start that withactually some breathing.
Remember how I said that the core isa respiratory muscle when we do an
(16:46):
When we elongate and wedo a forced exhalation.
our tummy comes in, right?
That tummy comes in on a forcedblow like a shush or a blowing.
That kind of thing draws in.
If anybody's done choir, you know,you came up, you project more when
(17:07):
you draw that tummy in and youuse that diaphragmatic breathing.
Well, that tummy comes in on that exhale,but it also helps you to feel that muscle.
So,
we start retraining howpeople are breathing.
A lot of them are breathing all intheir chest muscles or breathing in
opposition where they're kind of suckingin their tummy and then collapsing.
And we need to actuallyexpand and draw in.
(17:31):
And that will actually pull thecore together like a nice snug
hug that holds you together.
It feels really good.
And the splint actually gives you...
a feedback to where that muscle is.
So we use the split as a feedback tool.
We put it on for the first, you know,initial part of rehab and initial part
(17:53):
of postpartum so people can connect.
And it's kind of like training wheels.
If they're not quite strong enough tosit up well all day, this kind of comes
along and gives them the support theyneed to put them in the best alignment.
And then and then it's like how oncewe get that initial connection and we.
we feel the muscle, then it's howare we using it, how we're walking.
(18:15):
What is my posture like when I'm walking,when I'm pushing the grocery cart, when
I'm lifting stuff, when I'm feedingthe dog, when I'm picking up the dog
poop, you know, how am I moving inways that keep me connected to my core?
So it's not like this separate exercisesover here and my life over here.
It should be the exercisesmake my life better.
(18:36):
My life makes my exercises stronger andit should be right married together.
like that.
The Best Birth [18:15]
I love how you talk about the maintenanceportion because you can solve for the
problem, but maintaining it or workingit into your normal life as a retrain.
I remember I had C -sections and therewere people who said, don't go up the
(18:58):
stairs or don't do this, you know, andI was very worried about the incision.
and so I thought that that was thereason, but looking back, I think
that I shifted in certain ways to.
compensate for my abs.
And so I, I thought, I cando this, but just because you
(19:18):
can, does that mean you should?
And so I was, I think I, I wasignoring their advice because, I
can do this, you know, but whatare you causing by doing that?
Kelly Dean [19:01]
Right, and I think our culture herein America especially is very much
like hit the ground running, you know?
And I actually am an instructorat a midwifery college as well,
(19:42):
and I teach functional core andpelvic floor to new midwives.
And one of the things we really, one ofour week's lessons is on what we call the
fourth trimester, which is that periodof time, and a trimester is three months.
after delivery to allow your bodyto gently and appropriately recover.
(20:03):
So much of the pelvic floor stuffand the diastasis stuff that I see is
people not allowing their body to healfrom this major thing that happened.
And the reality is you are, ittakes longer to heal because
you're asleep deprived.
You just ran a marathon and nobodyfed you while you were doing it.
(20:25):
and now you are keeping thisnewborn alive by the juice of
your boobs and you are exhausted.
So your nutrition really funnelsinto your breast milk and not
into how you heal your body.
And so we have to take time andit's appropriate to take time
(20:46):
and it doesn't mean you're weak.
It means you're doing it intentionally,not because you have to, because
you should, you deserve to.
take a hot second to let your body heal.
And, and I don't, thatdoesn't mean do nothing.
I just want to say that that doesn'tmean just lay on in the bed because
your body is a use it or lose it system.
(21:08):
It's, it's how are we inthose parenting postures?
Like how are we supporting ourselves?
Well, in those parenting postures,what kind of stretches are we doing?
What kind of belly breaths are we doing?
Kind of abdominal massage are we doing?
What kind of connectionexercises are we doing?
So we stay connected and, and when we'redisconnected from a muscle that got really
stretched out or a group of muscles thatgot really stretched out, and then we
(21:31):
start powering through pain, we don'tnotice things until they are significant.
And it's so much harder to fixsomething that's severe than it is
to listen to that little whisperand course correct, you know,
The Best Birth [21:21]
So when it comes to our fourth trimesterplan, is it intuitive or should we always
(21:53):
be seeking out the experts to kind ofguide us in that training schedule?
Kelly Dean [21:31]
I think it's a little bit of both, okay?
Because everybody has a little bit ofa different, you know, body awareness
and expectations of their life.
You know, somebody that's going home thathas three little ones at home and their
partner had to go back to work right awayhas a little bit different expectations
(22:17):
on them, you know, than somebody that'stheir new baby and first baby and...
you know, maybe they have theirmom there to help them or their
husband's on paternity leave forfour months or something like that,
you know, it's different scenarios.
But what I would say is take theadvice of experts who have been
there, who know what you don't know.
(22:38):
I would not go by how you feel becausehow you feel is really relative to your
emotions and your hormonal swings, right?
So when I say that is like,you could be very low.
struggling with some baby blues or somepostpartum depression and not want to
(22:58):
get up and do anything and getting up anddoing something actually would be helpful.
Or you could be really feeling great anddecide you want to clean the whole house
because you are losing it how dirty thehouse is and now you know you're off.
We kind of need to find a middleground and one of the concepts that
(23:19):
we use in the midwifery school is 777.
Seven days in the bed.
And that doesn't mean you can'tget up, but it means you're
pretty much staying in the bed.
People are bringing stuff to you.
You're figuring out the nursing.
You could prop yourself well, but sevendays kind of near the bed, which means
you're not really leaving the house.
(23:41):
You can go back and take apit stop at the bed anytime.
And then seven days, you know,touching back to the bed.
So that's like, you still,you can leave the house.
but when you come back, you lay down.
You don't go out and then comeback and unload the dishwasher and
check your email and do all thosethings when you're up and about.
So it's really giving that,that's just 21 days, right?
(24:04):
That's not even the full time.
And that feels stir crazy to somepeople, but if we set up a support
system ahead of time, we talk about thatfourth trimester in the second and third
trimester so that they have, they have.
stuff for fruit smoothies, they havesoups in the fridge, they have things
planned, they have a strategy for peoplebringing them stuff, they know what
(24:27):
kind of support they need that firstweek and then that second week being
able to do a little bit more and thatthird week you know have child care
set up or somebody that can help them.
So I think being proactive insteadof reactive can go a long way.
The Best Birth [24:14]
Hmm.
This is incredible.
And so often we feel like we'll getthat badge of honor if we are up
(24:48):
and at them, you know, like, lookat me, I had my baby this week and
I'm already out at church and I'malready doing the grocery shopping.
And we need to reverse that mentalitywhere we say it takes time for me to heal.
even if I have to be supportingthe family or supporting your job,
you're still like aware of whereyou should be on that timeline.
(25:09):
Kelly Dean [24:41]
Yeah, I think for sure.
And I think what we don't know, whatI see all the time, because they come
and tell me the truth, is those peopleare the ones that are also experiencing
prolapse or back pain or a lot of
postpartum anxiety because they'revery disconnected from their body.
(25:30):
So there's more going on.
It's really important that we don'tcompare ourselves to each other.
There's more going on.
And I think if we could changejust the culture of taking care
and honoring that sacred time afteryou brought a human being into
the world, it will go a long way.
(25:51):
And a lot of people like, Igotta get back, I gotta get back.
I was like, what if you go back to whatyou thought you needed to do and you
have a setback for six more months?
How crazy is that gonna drive you?
Like, let's just, you know, take our time.
And what's cool about...
Our approach here at the tummy team isI give them tangible things that they
can be doing every time they nurse thebaby, every time they change the baby.
(26:14):
I build things into baby care routine tobe mama care as well so that they feel
what people are usually grasping for is Ineed to feel strong and connected again.
And how I did that before was exercising,going for a long walk, doing these things.
And so now I'm like, what if I couldgive you some of those feelings?
before you jump back into that.
(26:37):
So that it's kind of like you'refeeling supported and you have
the tools you need going there.
And I think talking about it aheadof time, I think we're not doing
anybody any favors, like pretendingthat it's not gonna be hard.
I mean, I don't wanna scarepeople, but I wanna prepare them.
(26:58):
I wanna prepare them for any scenario.
so that they feel empowered tohandle whatever scenario that is.
The Best Birth [26:40]
I love that.
Well, we've talked a lotabout this abdominal area.
What about rib cage spreading?
Are you working with thatwith the tummy team as well?
Kelly Dean [26:50]
for sure.
So I, so if you think about, ifyou kind of visualize the core,
(27:23):
I'll give you this picture forthe people that are watching this.
so that's the transverseabdominis, that picture.
It's a corset that wraps around yourlower six ribs all the way to your sternum
from your back and all the way aroundyour pelvis down to your pubic bone.
And if you can kind of visualize likethose old fashioned corsets that they tied
up, we actually have that in our body.
(27:46):
underneath all the other muscles thatmuscle so where the rib so you got
to think about it pulls the ribs downand helps hold them together and It
holds the pelvis together so that SIjoint that gets wobbly or that pubic
symphysis joint that gets a little Youknow those things it helps glue those
those things together because our bodynaturally has a relaxant hormone That
(28:09):
makes everything spread to make room andallow the pelvis to open up for the baby
to get out of a very small hole right?
So we want to we want to honorthat our body's going to stretch,
but the muscles have to give usthe structure to hold us together.
We need we need this marriage betweenstability and flexibility, right?
(28:29):
Like we need we need to bestable and be able to open.
So in the rib cage, a lot of it comesdown to posture as well, because
we're seeing that people are havingtheir babies later in life and they
may be worked on a computer or.
you know, had access to a phoneand have been looking down.
So their peck muscles are tight and theirneck muscles are tight because they're
(28:53):
a little bit more rounded forward inour technology, loving state, right?
And so those muscles alsoattached to your rib cage.
So now your, your, your stomach ispulling out and your ribs are tight.
So if you go to come up, your ribs flare.
So a lot of what's going on isstrengthening the transverse throughout
(29:15):
the pregnancy and releasing and openingup these chest muscles and strengthening
those postural muscles that have gottenweak from the type of life we live
because those muscles are going to beon overtime when we start holding a baby
all day long and nursing a baby, right?
There will be in thosekidney bean postures.
So we want to prepare andstrengthen those muscles to be
(29:39):
able to hold the baby while we're
nursing them like, you know,eight hours a day, right?
So we want to recognize that there'sa portion of that that impacts
the ribs, impacts the pelvis.
Sometimes it's sciatica is part ofwhat's going on, pubic symphysis, hip
pain, even plantar fasciitis becauseof how our pelvis spreads and the
(30:00):
weight we put on our feet differently.
So it's, there's this whole fullbody thing that starts with the core.
The Best Birth [29:41]
And during pregnancy, what do yourecommend so that we can have that proper
core strength, even from the get go?
(30:20):
Kelly Dean [29:53]
Well, the first thing I do is I educateeverybody in what we call active sitting.
So having them and I'll take,take anybody that's listening.
You're going to start outsitting at the edge of your seat,
start at the edge of your seat.
So your feet are on the ground andyou'll feel your sit bones like the
(30:42):
part that's on the bicycle bike.
Right?
So the sit bones and elongating thatis putting your pelvis and rib cage in
the right alignment, neutral alignment.
So if you can do that at the edge ofyour seat, then I try to educate them
to find a chair that you could sit allthe way back, add lumbar support so that
you can maintain that upright position.
(31:03):
If you're sitting at a computer all dayin the car, driving around, whatever
your life looks like, how can we getthe pelvis and the rib cage to line up
throughout the day so that the transversehas options to work when that pelvis
and rib cage aren't lined up when peopleare sitting on their tailbone all day?
It turns off the transverse andit impacts the fetal alignment.
(31:26):
It puts the baby in a less thanoptimal alignment with the birth canal.
It also tightens up muscles in theglutes and in the pelvis that actually
keep the baby from being able to turnand drop down into the pelvic bowl.
So if we can get you in thosepositions, initially, I also teach a
lot of stretches, what we call neutralpelvis stretches, hamstring release,
(31:50):
A QL like the side torso release, abutt release, calf release, and we
build that into your everyday routine sothat you're feeling like those muscles
around your pelvis have the flexibilityto get you in the right alignment.
We teach them the transverse activation,that exhaling, and on that exhale, we
(32:12):
visualize zipping up our tummy and wedo some different activations that way.
And then what's really crucialfor preparing for birth is the
coordination and the disassociationbetween the core and the pelvic floor.
Cause the core is like a cylinderand the diaphragm is the roof of
the cylinder and the pelvic flooris the floor of the cylinder.
(32:33):
So we call it the floor of the coreand they, the core and the pelvic
floor have a co -contraction.
They work together 99 % of the time,except for when we have a bowel movement.
and when we give birth, thenthe transverse comes in and the
pelvic floor needs to let go.
And that coordination, if you have notpracticed it, is going to feel very
(32:57):
weird and difficult in the middle ofbirth, in the middle of transition,
in the middle of pushing phase.
I always tell people, you know,let's not give somebody a math
equation when they're in pain.
That's not going to be the besttime to learn new information.
So we work on that coordinationof the core and pelvic floor.
Every time they go to the bathroomand how many times a day do
(33:18):
you pee when you're pregnant?
Too many, right?
Every time you have a bowelmovement, drawing your tummy
in, relaxing your pelvic floor.
We teach people use a squatty potty, whichputs your feet up, opens up the pelvic
canal and it simulates the birth position.
Everybody gives birthin a squatted position.
Whether you're on your back, on yourside, you have to be in a squatted
position to get the baby out.
(33:38):
That's the only way.
Nobody's crossing theirlegs to get a baby out.
legs are opening up.
So we start practicing the alignment,the connection, the coordination.
So it's not foreign to your body.
You feel very empowered.
Even if you end up having an epidural, youfeel very empowered that you're connected
to your body because an epidural makesyou numb, doesn't make you paralyzed.
(34:01):
You actually still have voluntarycontrol of those muscles.
You just have no feedback loop.
So you have to have created afeedback loop prior so you know you
can do it without having to feel it.
The Best Birth [33:45]
Wow.
That is fascinating.
I feel like this is such valuableknowledge for a first time mom or
someone who is planning to havemore children, just learning how
(34:23):
to train your body to do this.
Kelly Dean [33:57]
Yeah, it's like I said at the verybeginning, I feel like when we know
more, like when we know the rightthings, we can have a better experience.
And sadly, I didn't learn any ofthis until I had had all my kids.
I had had all my kids and thenI was like, my gosh, everything
would have been so much better.
(34:43):
But I've had the pleasure and theprivilege of coaching thousands of women
through like really redemptive births.
And even if it ends up in a C-section, they feel like they
were connected to their body.
They feel like after the delivery,they could connect to their body again.
Even if they end up getting an epidural,when they wanted to not have an epidural,
(35:06):
they feel like they had a path andthey knew what they needed to do.
And it's just been, you know, I'vebeen able to be at several births.
I've been able to coach.
And now it's kind of interesting.
Like I'm now helping...
my kids' friends.
My kids haven't had babies yet, butmy kids' friends are having babies and
my friends' kids are having babies.
So I feel like I'm being reallya part of changing the next
(35:31):
generation of how they birth.
The Best Birth [35:06]
I love that.
I love the phrase that it's never toolate because like you said, it was after
you had your kids, but you were ableto shape so many other people's lives
because of the knowledge that you learned.
And even that awareness piece, the50 % that we talked about knowing that
(35:51):
I have recently been aware that I'vebeen holding my stomach muscles really
tight and not allowing that elongation.
And so being more aware has, hashelped me even now, even though I have.
given birth in the past and don'tknow if I will in the future.
It's just every little change helps.
Kelly Dean [35:42]
Well, and the other thing that I do,it is never too late because the other
(36:14):
part of my work is I actually trainPTs and OTs that work with seniors
that live in skilled nursing facilitiesand long -term care facilities.
I am working on core and pelvic floorat the end of their life when they're
struggling with incontinence, whenthey're struggling with back pain and
(36:35):
constipation.
I work with...
people when they have theirbabies with the little babies.
Like, I mean, we need core and functionalcore and pelvic floor for everything.
It's never too late because when, whenyou, I want you to be strong, like you
may, people may be hearing this afterthey're done having their kids and
they're like, I wish I would have known.
well, but what are you doing now?
(36:57):
You're still a parent.
You're still involved in your community.
You're still involved in your life.
And I want you to feel strong.
I don't want you.
to leak when you coughand sneeze or laugh.
I don't want you to be overwhelmedwith all of feeling like you don't
have the capacity, you don't feelstrong, you don't have the posture.
It's amazing how posture cantransform how you view the world
(37:22):
and how the world views you.
I think it's really, it'snever too late, never too late.
The Best Birth [37:02]
We've heard so much about that superwomanstance or that Superman stance.
I think recently a lot of people aretaking to just, how do you feel after
you stand in this stance for two minutes?
Kelly Dean [37:12]
Right.
Well, yeah.
And I have different ways that dependingon my audience that I share that, you
(37:48):
know, kind of like I sometimes speakat church groups and I'm like, you
need to stand like you're the daughterof a king because you are, right?
The daughter of a king, right?
Royalty stands a certain way.
When I'm talking to athletes, youknow, I also coach a swim team.
It sounds like I do a lot of differentthings, but I have a lot of passions.
So I go a lot of different directions.
(38:09):
I...
but I don't want them likeup on the blocks like this.
I'm like, you stand like an Olympian onthat block, you know, nice and tall and
connected to your body and strong andempowered and ready to go, you know,
like how we hold ourselves matters.
And it actually asks the muscles todo what we need them to do because if
(38:30):
everybody could just sit up taller.
they would have the strength to do it.
As soon as I tell everybody posture,if I even use the word posture
when I'm speaking, everybodyadjusts how they're sitting, but
nobody can maintain it, right?
Because it takes strength and strengthcomes from asking a muscle to do it
something over and over and over again.
(38:50):
So it comes down toconsistency and opportunity.
So I'm going to help you find theopportunities and help you be consistent.
Consistent doesn't mean youhave to be perfect at 100%.
It means what's going to work the best foryour life with what you have every day.
And so I think that that was the biggestthing when I started on my journey to
(39:11):
see who was doing this type of work.
It felt like a lot of pressure to beperfect, a lot of pressure to do so much.
And I had so much to do and I...
just it felt shaming a little bitlike if I wasn't going to do all the
things and I really don't want mywork to feel that way to anybody.
(39:32):
I want them to I want to createopportunities and awareness so that they
can see how even just a little step canchange the direction of the whole ship
you know and small things do matter andjust start small and be successful there.
The Best Birth [39:21]
In the book, Hands Free Mama, shesays, when you finally let go of
perfection, you discover it wasn'tnecessary to carry all that weight to
(39:57):
become the person you were meant to be.
Kelly Dean [39:32]
100%.
100%.
The Best Birth [39:35]
Kelly, this has been anincredible conversation.
We feel completely uplifted, elongated.
We feel like we want to bethat birth goddess and that
birth Olympian that we can be.
I am so excited to share yourresources with all of our listeners.
(40:18):
Are there any other resourcesthat you would recommend?
Maybe a book, another expert.
Kelly Dean [39:55]
Well, there's a lot of cool peopledoing a lot of cool things out there.
I want people to realize that I have,so I am a physical therapist and I
have, I had a clinic for a long timeand I recently transitioned to have a
(40:39):
completely online clinic, which allowsme to treat so many more people and
gives me the flexibility to do all theother teaching that I do and the coaching
and all the other things that I do.
But what's really cool is that,
have free resources on mywebsite, thetummyteam .com.
I have a paid membership that's like$15 a month where you can get just a
(41:02):
weekly series of like how to figure outthe breathing in a week, you know, like
a bunch of just bite -sized pieces forpeople that are in the throes of it.
And then I have...
you know, another level where you couldgo through the rehab course week by
week with videos, me showing you howto do this stuff so that you can go all
the way to prepare for your pregnancy.
(41:23):
You can go preparing for postpartum.
I have a trauma recovery course on there.
I have courses for men, for your husbands.
I have, you know, a course for toddlers.
So there's a lot of resources outthere at a small investment of time and
finances that you can get those resources.
I'm a fan of a lot of peopledoing this work, you know, and
(41:47):
doing different parts of the work.
I think Katie Baumann is reallycool because she talks a lot about
alignment and thinking about howwe sit and stand and how we move.
I've learned a lot from her.
Yeah, I can't think of it.
A lot of the people that I followare not people that, they're not
people that an average mama wouldprobably follow because I'm like,
(42:11):
I'm like, I nerd out on the science of it.
Good.
The Best Birth [41:47]
Nerds are welcome here.
Yes.
I love that you have made thiscare accessible to so many
people by having it online.
Thank you for doing that.
Every week we end by sharing amom squad secret of the week.
And so this one is from Sharon.
She says, if you can save some ofyour maternity leave or vacation days
(42:35):
for the four months sleep regression.
So a good thing to note too, afterthat third, that fourth trimester comes
that four months sleep regression.
Kelly Dean [42:13]
Yeah, so smart.
That's so smart.
I love that.
I wish I had that advice.
The Best Birth [42:21]
Kelly, is there anything elsethat you'd like to share today?
Kelly Dean [42:24]
I know I feel really honoredto be a part of this.
Thank you so much for helping get the wordout for all the things that you are doing.
(42:58):
I know I just do one piece of the puzzle.
I just want people to know thatthere's options out there and this is
a amazing time to be alive in the sensethat if you don't have a specialist
where you live, you have access to aspecialist no matter where you live.
Right.
And I, I love that.
Don't, don't settle for less.
(43:18):
Don't power through.
If something feels intuitivelywrong to you, keep looking.
You just haven't foundthe right answer yet.
And maybe it's me, but it might not be me.
Maybe it's somebody else, but justdon't give up because there's so
many amazing resources out there.
And just don't be scaredto ask your friends.
(43:41):
At the beginning of my story, youknow, like as my sister that checked my
diastasis, it was my girlfriends that...
that made me realize Ineeded to do this work.
It was my church group, mom's group thatwere like, my gosh, help me fix my tummy.
Ask people, don't be shy talking aboutthe things because you'll be surprised
at how many other people are strugglingand maybe they found an answer or
(44:02):
maybe together you can find an answer.
And I think I just want peopleto have hope and encouragement.
The Best Birth [43:41]
We love that.
Thank you so much for sharing today.
Kelly Dean [43:45]
Thanks for having me.
Thanks for joining us on today's episode.
We hope you've been elevated andinspired by this week's expert.
Subscribe today so you never missan episode and please share our
(44:23):
podcast or post on your socialmedia so that other moms and dads
to be can also have the best birth.
Please note that the informationprovided is based on the expert's
insights and personal experience.
It is not intended as medical guidance.
Please seek the advice of yourmedical provider as it applies
to your specific condition.
It's the Best Birth Podcast, wherewe interview experts that elevate
you as you prepare your heartand mind to have the best birth.
Each episode will interviewprofessionals so you are prepared
for pregnancy, birth, and postpartum.
Our experts will build your confidenceand empower you to trust your
intuition throughout your pregnancy.
This audio is takenfrom videos on YouTube.
(00:27):
Watch the entire episodes onYouTube at Birth Made Mindful.
[00:02] Welcome to the Best Birth podcast.
We are so excited for our episode today.
We have our guest, Kelly Dean,the founder of the Tummy Team, and
she is going to teach us all aboutour core before labor and after.
Kelly Dean is a physical therapistand founder of the Tummy Team.
(00:49):
She has over 25 years of experience,but was motivated to do this work
because of her own motherhood journey.
She personally struggled withfive miscarriages and three
complicated full term births.
Her own motherhood journey lefther feeling broken and weak.
She discovered she had a six fingerdiastasis and severe functional
(01:09):
core weaknesses that no one inthe medical field could address.
So she created what she needed.
Now she works with clients aroundthe globe, teaches at a university.
and professional conferences andis on a mission to help women
know better so they can have abetter experience throughout their
pregnancy, birth, recovery and beyond.
Thank you so much for being here, Kelly.
(01:30):
Kelly Dean [01:03]
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having me.
I love talking about this.
I feel like when we knowbetter, we can do better, right?
The Best Birth [01:12]
And we would love to hear just thebasics of how you got into this very
specific field of helping our core's.
Kelly Dean [01:23]
(01:50):
Well, yeah, like my bio kind of said, I'vebeen a physical therapist for a long time.
It's so weird to say 25 years.
It's hard to think that you'vedone anything for 25 years.
But I was, when I was, Iwas a collegiate athlete.
So I was a swimmer in highschool and through college.
(02:11):
I swam on a athletic scholarship.
It was like my job.
And so I was always really,
in tune with my body and I dida lot of fitness and I thought
I knew how it was gonna be.
I thought I was just gonna beable to have a baby and do all
this stuff and bounce right back.
(02:31):
And that's not exactly how it worked.
And so when I first was in my firstpart of physical therapy, I was more
of a stroke and brain injury therapist.
I worked a lot in neuromuscular re -ed.
So not so much outpatient.
Not like what a lot of times people thinkabout when they go see a pelvic floor PT.
(02:54):
But my body kind of fell apart with allof the bursts, all the miscarriages, and
all the things I was trying to do to kindof, what I thought I needed to do to keep
myself strong was all the wrong things.
And I didn't know it.
I thought I was doing the right things.
I was doing lots of sit -ups and crunches.
I was running.
(03:15):
I was...
trying to do some things.
I was also doing yoga and Pilates andI thought I was doing all the right
things, but my body kind of was likefalling apart little by little with
each consecutive birth and the traumaof my birth and of the losses also
I know now really contributed to notreally being connected to my core, but
(03:38):
I didn't realize it was a core issue.
I thought it was just a try harder issue.
you know, I thought it was just do more.
and I, I kind of was surprised with mysister -in -law who's also a PT, saw
me at like a, Thanksgiving vacation andit's like, I think you have a diastasis.
(03:59):
And then she checked me and I had that sixfinger separation in my abdominal wall.
And it was just this eye opening moment,that I was like, there's something wrong.
And I thought, you know,
I could just rehab this, but therewas nobody really doing rehab.
Everybody was like, I don'tknow how you can fix that.
(04:20):
All of my colleagues, allof my friends that did PT,
nobody really knew what to do.
And a lot of people are like, Ithink you need to have surgery.
It's really bad.
So I went down the surgery route to kindof see, and that was mortifying because
they made it about like belly fat and youneed a tummy tuck and all of these things.
And I was like, but I am literally,
(04:41):
falling apart, my back hurt, I was wettingmy pants, my SI joint was always out,
I had all kinds of digestive issues, Ilooked six months pregnant all the time.
And I had very, like in hindsight, Icould see I had very little capacity for
new learning, for emotional stuff, forany of those kinds of things, you know?
(05:04):
And so I
kind of started figuring it out.
It's weird because at first I thought I'mjust going to save for the surgery, right?
And, in the meantime, I met with like,I had a bunch of girlfriends over
for, it was like a birthday dinnerand they were like, we should go.
Our kids are getting older.
We should go on a cruise together.
(05:26):
And I was like, I haveto save for surgery.
And they're like, why?
And so I started telling them andthey all lay down on the floor in
my living room and I check all ofthem and they all had like four or
five, six finger wide diastasis.
And I had this thing, like I was like,
wait a second, what is happening here?
Right?
Like either this is normal,which I knew it wasn't normal.
(05:48):
Or this is an epidemic, whichturns out it's kind of an epidemic.
And so all of those friendsstarted looking up stuff.
They're like, we're not getting surgery.
Let's figure this out.
And, and they startedsending me stuff to look at.
And they're like, youneed to look at this.
You need to look at that.
And I started looking at whatpeople were doing and there were
pieces of the puzzle out there.
(06:08):
but not the full puzzle.
And so I just kept workingat it, working on it.
And then I shared it at my mom'sgroup at my church and I checked 38
women and 36 of them had a diastasis.
And then my friend, my other friend said,it's like you have a little tummy team.
You're teaching everybodyhow to fix their tummy.
(06:29):
And that's how the tummy team came about.
And it's evolved since then, but.
You know, I think a lot of thingsthat we're passionate about come
from something that we've experiencedourselves and we want to help people
not go through what we went through.
The Best Birth [06:16]
Yes.
And I love how on your websiteit says just because it's
common, doesn't mean it's normal.
And it is everywhere and we hear about it.
(06:52):
Let's dive into how we can fix it.
So you talked about the puzzle pieces.
Can you tell us maybe what some of thosepieces were that you found that could
have been helpful, but maybe you didnot include the full picture of healing.
Kelly Dean [06:27]
Yeah.
Yes, I can.
I try to be really careful becauseI never want to talk disparagingly
(07:12):
about anybody else doing this workbecause I feel like anybody that does
this work is passionate about it.
So I'm not going to use names ofdifferent programs because I just
feel like that's not helpful.
But what I did find is the biggestthing I, the first thing I learned was
(07:34):
about the transverse abdominus muscle.
which is the deepest corsetcore muscle of our body.
We all know about our crunch muscle,like the rectus abdominis muscle and the
oblique muscle, but I started learningthat the transverse muscle is this muscle
that wraps around and pull you together.
So that was really like, Idon't even remember learning
(07:56):
about that muscle in school.
I'm sure we did, but itwasn't high on the radar.
We were learning about arms andlegs, you know, and not much about
those deep stabilizing muscles.
So I learned about that.
But then what I found wasmost of the things out there
were a series of exercises.
You know, do all these exercises on yourback, do all these exercises in hands
(08:18):
and knees, do all of these exercisessitting up and do millions of them a day.
And I was desperate like most people.
And so I started out doing the desperatething and it was not sustainable.
And it also, so,
So then I started feeling guilty becauseI wasn't doing enough because remember
how I thought it was a try harder problem.
(08:39):
So that just fed rightinto that try harder.
So it was like too much.
The other thing I learned about wassplinting using an abdominal rehab
splint to kind of pull the right andleft side together to help it heal.
And I thought like there was a lot ofmixed information out there about that.
But what I found was, thishelps me feel that muscle.
(09:02):
but there were some programs thathave you do it really tight and
do it for a really long time.
And as a physical therapist, I kind ofrealized like, if I, I need to put an
ACE wrap on a sprained ankle to walkon that ankle, but if I do it super
tight and never take it off, it's notgoing to help the angle long -term.
So like there's a rolefor it, but not forever.
(09:24):
And then I think the biggest thingI learned, and this came back
from like my stroke and braininjury kind of background was that
no matter how many exercises Ido, if it didn't move into how I
lived my life every day, then itwasn't going to impact things.
Like it had to have afunctional component of it.
(09:45):
So if how I'm bending over to pick upthe socks and the Legos off the floor
all day long is like a crunch pushing outon my tummy all day long, then I'm going
to be one step forward, two steps back.
So I had to figure out how to.
how to make it work in real life because Iwas a mom, I had little kids and I wasn't
going to be at the gym all the time.
(10:07):
but I still needed to be strongand feel better for motherhood.
So I think the big things that I learnedwas I needed to actually ironically
stop all the core work I was doingbecause it was using the wrong muscles.
I needed to find a balance betweenhow to activate the rest right muscles
and then how to use them functionally.
(10:27):
And then I needed to recognize what,
postures and what things werekeeping my body from healing.
Like the body has anatural capacity to heal.
I believe we're supposed tohave babies and not fall apart.
So why was I not healing?
And that was kind of the, thosewere the really big things that I
started seeing were missing fromthe information that was out there.
(10:49):
There was a lot of like littleYouTube videos and programs
on doing certain exercises.
but there wasn't this bigpicture of like, how does this
look in a real life situation?
The Best Birth [10:32]
So when you talk a little bit aboutfunctional mobility, can you give us
a few examples of postures or thingsthat we commonly might do wrong?
Kelly Dean [10:41]
Yeah.
And, and it's not necessarily wrong.
(11:11):
It's like we, if we don'tknow, we don't know.
Right.
But the biggest, I think thebiggest thing I can tell every mom
listening to this that you coulddo for your core is elongate.
You guys both did it.
Right.
Because the internal, if youthink about what your core muscles
(11:33):
are, they wrap around your torso.
The Best Birth [11:01]
I
Kelly Dean [11:09]
They connect your pelvisand your rib cage together.
They hold your organs in place.
They make you taller.
They stabilize your spine.
They, they support your pelvicfloor and they support the uterus
when you're pregnant, right?
Though that's what those muscles do.
If you think about what we doall day long, it's upright.
(11:55):
We do very few things thatare active laying down.
Most of their active day is sitting,standing, walking is upright.
Our body was designed forthat postural muscles.
to hold us upright.
So they are postural, structural,digestive and respiratory in nature.
(12:16):
And whatever we do, the most wins.
So no matter if you spend six hoursat the gym every day, who does that?
But some people maybe, you stillhave, you know, another what?
18 hours a day?
So what you're doing the most wins.
And if we can elongate, whenyou guys elongated, you felt
your core just did something.
It had to do something,whether you can maintain it or
(12:38):
not is another story, right?
But we have to start somewhere.
And if we can just think about theposture of how we're sitting, how we're
standing, how we're pushing the stroller,how we're picking up the car seat, how
we're unloading the dishwasher, howwe're nursing our babies, how we're
going to the bathroom, all of the things,how we're cleaning our house, how all
(13:00):
the things we do throughout the day,your core has a role in those things.
And I don't train you tooverthink those things.
I give you the foundational partand then I help you build it into
all of those things, which makes itnot only doable, but sustainable.
And then it makes your life be yourworkout because motherhood is a workout.
(13:22):
If it wasn't, we wouldn't be soexhausted at the end of the day.
Right.
So like it, let's make it workfor us instead of against us.
The Best Birth [13:03]
And are most of the things that we cando just like bringing conscious awareness
or are there actual tools like, youknow, like a belly band or like one of
those shoulder posture things that I'msure you've seen, and I'm not sure if
those are like a negative or a positive.
(13:44):
can you tell us a little bitabout how we can go about just
like bringing awareness to that?
Kelly Dean [13:22]
Well, what I tell everybody is50 % of the solution is awareness.
And then the other 50 % istools and strategies.
Okay?
So first, the reason I say 50%, and that'sa huge percentage, is just awareness.
(14:05):
So this is a lifeline to thatmom that is exhausted and
can't think of one more thing.
Awareness is 50 % of the solutionbecause our body has a capacity to
heal if we're not going against it.
So when I say awareness,
Posture is one of it and watching how manythings you are doing that are pushing out
and pulling apart your abdominal wall.
(14:27):
And those are usually things thatif you think about your pelvis,
your pelvis is like a bowl and yourrib cage like an upside down bowl.
I kind of tell people like two sidesof one of those plastic Easter eggs.
We want those to be aligned and elongated.
So when we are in a collapsedposition, like the...
(14:48):
typical nursing posturethat collapsed position.
It's like doing a crunch all day.
And when we do a crunch, weround and our belly pushes out.
Everybody that's listening to thishas had to do a crunch or chosen
to do a crunch in their life.
And they can think back and think, didmy tummy get flatter or did it push out?
It pushed out, right?
So avoiding things that arealways pushing out on your tummy.
(15:14):
So that's not just crunches,but how sitting collapsed.
holding our breath and bearing down,doing hmmmm stuff which pushes out,
those kinds of things, things that arepushing out, pushing out, pushing out.
If we can minimize and eliminatethat, you're gonna get halfway there.
And that was so true for mebecause I was doing lots and lots
(15:35):
of crunches every night and Ihad a six finger wide diastasis.
And when I learned about what thetransverse was and what it did and how
it elongated me and I just eliminatedit, it sounded so counterintuitive.
I eliminated the crunches.
I went from a six finger down to athree finger just by stopping doing the
things that were causing the damage.
(15:57):
It's kind of like if you have a leak inyour bath and you're in your basement,
you could spend all day with towelsand buckets, but if nobody turns
off the water, you're going nowhere.
So half of it is just that awarenesspart of knowing what's keeping your body
from healing and how the muscle works.
So that's the first half,not to be underestimated.
The second half is connecting to thatmuscle because if it's gotten stretched
(16:21):
out with pregnancy, if you're disconnectedfrom it because of trauma, or if you
had chronic habits of collapsing orpushing out, then you have to kind of
rewire your brain belly connection.
And we start that withactually some breathing.
Remember how I said that the core isa respiratory muscle when we do an
(16:46):
When we elongate and wedo a forced exhalation.
our tummy comes in, right?
That tummy comes in on a forcedblow like a shush or a blowing.
That kind of thing draws in.
If anybody's done choir, you know,you came up, you project more when
(17:07):
you draw that tummy in and youuse that diaphragmatic breathing.
Well, that tummy comes in on that exhale,but it also helps you to feel that muscle.
So,
we start retraining howpeople are breathing.
A lot of them are breathing all intheir chest muscles or breathing in
opposition where they're kind of suckingin their tummy and then collapsing.
And we need to actuallyexpand and draw in.
(17:31):
And that will actually pull thecore together like a nice snug
hug that holds you together.
It feels really good.
And the splint actually gives you...
a feedback to where that muscle is.
So we use the split as a feedback tool.
We put it on for the first, you know,initial part of rehab and initial part
(17:53):
of postpartum so people can connect.
And it's kind of like training wheels.
If they're not quite strong enough tosit up well all day, this kind of comes
along and gives them the support theyneed to put them in the best alignment.
And then and then it's like how oncewe get that initial connection and we.
we feel the muscle, then it's howare we using it, how we're walking.
(18:15):
What is my posture like when I'm walking,when I'm pushing the grocery cart, when
I'm lifting stuff, when I'm feedingthe dog, when I'm picking up the dog
poop, you know, how am I moving inways that keep me connected to my core?
So it's not like this separate exercisesover here and my life over here.
It should be the exercisesmake my life better.
(18:36):
My life makes my exercises stronger andit should be right married together.
like that.
The Best Birth [18:15]
I love how you talk about the maintenanceportion because you can solve for the
problem, but maintaining it or workingit into your normal life as a retrain.
I remember I had C -sections and therewere people who said, don't go up the
(18:58):
stairs or don't do this, you know, andI was very worried about the incision.
and so I thought that that was thereason, but looking back, I think
that I shifted in certain ways to.
compensate for my abs.
And so I, I thought, I cando this, but just because you
(19:18):
can, does that mean you should?
And so I was, I think I, I wasignoring their advice because, I
can do this, you know, but whatare you causing by doing that?
Kelly Dean [19:01]
Right, and I think our culture herein America especially is very much
like hit the ground running, you know?
And I actually am an instructorat a midwifery college as well,
(19:42):
and I teach functional core andpelvic floor to new midwives.
And one of the things we really, one ofour week's lessons is on what we call the
fourth trimester, which is that periodof time, and a trimester is three months.
after delivery to allow your bodyto gently and appropriately recover.
(20:03):
So much of the pelvic floor stuffand the diastasis stuff that I see is
people not allowing their body to healfrom this major thing that happened.
And the reality is you are, ittakes longer to heal because
you're asleep deprived.
You just ran a marathon and nobodyfed you while you were doing it.
(20:25):
and now you are keeping thisnewborn alive by the juice of
your boobs and you are exhausted.
So your nutrition really funnelsinto your breast milk and not
into how you heal your body.
And so we have to take time andit's appropriate to take time
(20:46):
and it doesn't mean you're weak.
It means you're doing it intentionally,not because you have to, because
you should, you deserve to.
take a hot second to let your body heal.
And, and I don't, thatdoesn't mean do nothing.
I just want to say that that doesn'tmean just lay on in the bed because
your body is a use it or lose it system.
(21:08):
It's, it's how are we inthose parenting postures?
Like how are we supporting ourselves?
Well, in those parenting postures,what kind of stretches are we doing?
What kind of belly breaths are we doing?
Kind of abdominal massage are we doing?
What kind of connectionexercises are we doing?
So we stay connected and, and when we'redisconnected from a muscle that got really
stretched out or a group of muscles thatgot really stretched out, and then we
(21:31):
start powering through pain, we don'tnotice things until they are significant.
And it's so much harder to fixsomething that's severe than it is
to listen to that little whisperand course correct, you know,
The Best Birth [21:21]
So when it comes to our fourth trimesterplan, is it intuitive or should we always
(21:53):
be seeking out the experts to kind ofguide us in that training schedule?
Kelly Dean [21:31]
I think it's a little bit of both, okay?
Because everybody has a little bit ofa different, you know, body awareness
and expectations of their life.
You know, somebody that's going home thathas three little ones at home and their
partner had to go back to work right awayhas a little bit different expectations
(22:17):
on them, you know, than somebody that'stheir new baby and first baby and...
you know, maybe they have theirmom there to help them or their
husband's on paternity leave forfour months or something like that,
you know, it's different scenarios.
But what I would say is take theadvice of experts who have been
there, who know what you don't know.
(22:38):
I would not go by how you feel becausehow you feel is really relative to your
emotions and your hormonal swings, right?
So when I say that is like,you could be very low.
struggling with some baby blues or somepostpartum depression and not want to
(22:58):
get up and do anything and getting up anddoing something actually would be helpful.
Or you could be really feeling great anddecide you want to clean the whole house
because you are losing it how dirty thehouse is and now you know you're off.
We kind of need to find a middleground and one of the concepts that
(23:19):
we use in the midwifery school is 777.
Seven days in the bed.
And that doesn't mean you can'tget up, but it means you're
pretty much staying in the bed.
People are bringing stuff to you.
You're figuring out the nursing.
You could prop yourself well, but sevendays kind of near the bed, which means
you're not really leaving the house.
(23:41):
You can go back and take apit stop at the bed anytime.
And then seven days, you know,touching back to the bed.
So that's like, you still,you can leave the house.
but when you come back, you lay down.
You don't go out and then comeback and unload the dishwasher and
check your email and do all thosethings when you're up and about.
So it's really giving that,that's just 21 days, right?
(24:04):
That's not even the full time.
And that feels stir crazy to somepeople, but if we set up a support
system ahead of time, we talk about thatfourth trimester in the second and third
trimester so that they have, they have.
stuff for fruit smoothies, they havesoups in the fridge, they have things
planned, they have a strategy for peoplebringing them stuff, they know what
(24:27):
kind of support they need that firstweek and then that second week being
able to do a little bit more and thatthird week you know have child care
set up or somebody that can help them.
So I think being proactive insteadof reactive can go a long way.
The Best Birth [24:14]
Hmm.
This is incredible.
And so often we feel like we'll getthat badge of honor if we are up
(24:48):
and at them, you know, like, lookat me, I had my baby this week and
I'm already out at church and I'malready doing the grocery shopping.
And we need to reverse that mentalitywhere we say it takes time for me to heal.
even if I have to be supportingthe family or supporting your job,
you're still like aware of whereyou should be on that timeline.
(25:09):
Kelly Dean [24:41]
Yeah, I think for sure.
And I think what we don't know, whatI see all the time, because they come
and tell me the truth, is those peopleare the ones that are also experiencing
prolapse or back pain or a lot of
postpartum anxiety because they'revery disconnected from their body.
(25:30):
So there's more going on.
It's really important that we don'tcompare ourselves to each other.
There's more going on.
And I think if we could changejust the culture of taking care
and honoring that sacred time afteryou brought a human being into
the world, it will go a long way.
(25:51):
And a lot of people like, Igotta get back, I gotta get back.
I was like, what if you go back to whatyou thought you needed to do and you
have a setback for six more months?
How crazy is that gonna drive you?
Like, let's just, you know, take our time.
And what's cool about...
Our approach here at the tummy team isI give them tangible things that they
can be doing every time they nurse thebaby, every time they change the baby.
(26:14):
I build things into baby care routine tobe mama care as well so that they feel
what people are usually grasping for is Ineed to feel strong and connected again.
And how I did that before was exercising,going for a long walk, doing these things.
And so now I'm like, what if I couldgive you some of those feelings?
before you jump back into that.
(26:37):
So that it's kind of like you'refeeling supported and you have
the tools you need going there.
And I think talking about it aheadof time, I think we're not doing
anybody any favors, like pretendingthat it's not gonna be hard.
I mean, I don't wanna scarepeople, but I wanna prepare them.
(26:58):
I wanna prepare them for any scenario.
so that they feel empowered tohandle whatever scenario that is.
The Best Birth [26:40]
I love that.
Well, we've talked a lotabout this abdominal area.
What about rib cage spreading?
Are you working with thatwith the tummy team as well?
Kelly Dean [26:50]
for sure.
So I, so if you think about, ifyou kind of visualize the core,
(27:23):
I'll give you this picture forthe people that are watching this.
so that's the transverseabdominis, that picture.
It's a corset that wraps around yourlower six ribs all the way to your sternum
from your back and all the way aroundyour pelvis down to your pubic bone.
And if you can kind of visualize likethose old fashioned corsets that they tied
up, we actually have that in our body.
(27:46):
underneath all the other muscles thatmuscle so where the rib so you got
to think about it pulls the ribs downand helps hold them together and It
holds the pelvis together so that SIjoint that gets wobbly or that pubic
symphysis joint that gets a little Youknow those things it helps glue those
those things together because our bodynaturally has a relaxant hormone That
(28:09):
makes everything spread to make room andallow the pelvis to open up for the baby
to get out of a very small hole right?
So we want to we want to honorthat our body's going to stretch,
but the muscles have to give usthe structure to hold us together.
We need we need this marriage betweenstability and flexibility, right?
(28:29):
Like we need we need to bestable and be able to open.
So in the rib cage, a lot of it comesdown to posture as well, because
we're seeing that people are havingtheir babies later in life and they
may be worked on a computer or.
you know, had access to a phoneand have been looking down.
So their peck muscles are tight and theirneck muscles are tight because they're
(28:53):
a little bit more rounded forward inour technology, loving state, right?
And so those muscles alsoattached to your rib cage.
So now your, your, your stomach ispulling out and your ribs are tight.
So if you go to come up, your ribs flare.
So a lot of what's going on isstrengthening the transverse throughout
(29:15):
the pregnancy and releasing and openingup these chest muscles and strengthening
those postural muscles that have gottenweak from the type of life we live
because those muscles are going to beon overtime when we start holding a baby
all day long and nursing a baby, right?
There will be in thosekidney bean postures.
So we want to prepare andstrengthen those muscles to be
(29:39):
able to hold the baby while we're
nursing them like, you know,eight hours a day, right?
So we want to recognize that there'sa portion of that that impacts
the ribs, impacts the pelvis.
Sometimes it's sciatica is part ofwhat's going on, pubic symphysis, hip
pain, even plantar fasciitis becauseof how our pelvis spreads and the
(30:00):
weight we put on our feet differently.
So it's, there's this whole fullbody thing that starts with the core.
The Best Birth [29:41]
And during pregnancy, what do yourecommend so that we can have that proper
core strength, even from the get go?
(30:20):
Kelly Dean [29:53]
Well, the first thing I do is I educateeverybody in what we call active sitting.
So having them and I'll take,take anybody that's listening.
You're going to start outsitting at the edge of your seat,
start at the edge of your seat.
So your feet are on the ground andyou'll feel your sit bones like the
(30:42):
part that's on the bicycle bike.
Right?
So the sit bones and elongating thatis putting your pelvis and rib cage in
the right alignment, neutral alignment.
So if you can do that at the edge ofyour seat, then I try to educate them
to find a chair that you could sit allthe way back, add lumbar support so that
you can maintain that upright position.
(31:03):
If you're sitting at a computer all dayin the car, driving around, whatever
your life looks like, how can we getthe pelvis and the rib cage to line up
throughout the day so that the transversehas options to work when that pelvis
and rib cage aren't lined up when peopleare sitting on their tailbone all day?
It turns off the transverse andit impacts the fetal alignment.
(31:26):
It puts the baby in a less thanoptimal alignment with the birth canal.
It also tightens up muscles in theglutes and in the pelvis that actually
keep the baby from being able to turnand drop down into the pelvic bowl.
So if we can get you in thosepositions, initially, I also teach a
lot of stretches, what we call neutralpelvis stretches, hamstring release,
(31:50):
A QL like the side torso release, abutt release, calf release, and we
build that into your everyday routine sothat you're feeling like those muscles
around your pelvis have the flexibilityto get you in the right alignment.
We teach them the transverse activation,that exhaling, and on that exhale, we
(32:12):
visualize zipping up our tummy and wedo some different activations that way.
And then what's really crucialfor preparing for birth is the
coordination and the disassociationbetween the core and the pelvic floor.
Cause the core is like a cylinderand the diaphragm is the roof of
the cylinder and the pelvic flooris the floor of the cylinder.
(32:33):
So we call it the floor of the coreand they, the core and the pelvic
floor have a co -contraction.
They work together 99 % of the time,except for when we have a bowel movement.
and when we give birth, thenthe transverse comes in and the
pelvic floor needs to let go.
And that coordination, if you have notpracticed it, is going to feel very
(32:57):
weird and difficult in the middle ofbirth, in the middle of transition,
in the middle of pushing phase.
I always tell people, you know,let's not give somebody a math
equation when they're in pain.
That's not going to be the besttime to learn new information.
So we work on that coordinationof the core and pelvic floor.
Every time they go to the bathroomand how many times a day do
(33:18):
you pee when you're pregnant?
Too many, right?
Every time you have a bowelmovement, drawing your tummy
in, relaxing your pelvic floor.
We teach people use a squatty potty, whichputs your feet up, opens up the pelvic
canal and it simulates the birth position.
Everybody gives birthin a squatted position.
Whether you're on your back, on yourside, you have to be in a squatted
position to get the baby out.
(33:38):
That's the only way.
Nobody's crossing theirlegs to get a baby out.
legs are opening up.
So we start practicing the alignment,the connection, the coordination.
So it's not foreign to your body.
You feel very empowered.
Even if you end up having an epidural, youfeel very empowered that you're connected
to your body because an epidural makesyou numb, doesn't make you paralyzed.
(34:01):
You actually still have voluntarycontrol of those muscles.
You just have no feedback loop.
So you have to have created afeedback loop prior so you know you
can do it without having to feel it.
The Best Birth [33:45]
Wow.
That is fascinating.
I feel like this is such valuableknowledge for a first time mom or
someone who is planning to havemore children, just learning how
(34:23):
to train your body to do this.
Kelly Dean [33:57]
Yeah, it's like I said at the verybeginning, I feel like when we know
more, like when we know the rightthings, we can have a better experience.
And sadly, I didn't learn any ofthis until I had had all my kids.
I had had all my kids and thenI was like, my gosh, everything
would have been so much better.
(34:43):
But I've had the pleasure and theprivilege of coaching thousands of women
through like really redemptive births.
And even if it ends up in a C-section, they feel like they
were connected to their body.
They feel like after the delivery,they could connect to their body again.
Even if they end up getting an epidural,when they wanted to not have an epidural,
(35:06):
they feel like they had a path andthey knew what they needed to do.
And it's just been, you know, I'vebeen able to be at several births.
I've been able to coach.
And now it's kind of interesting.
Like I'm now helping...
my kids' friends.
My kids haven't had babies yet, butmy kids' friends are having babies and
my friends' kids are having babies.
So I feel like I'm being reallya part of changing the next
(35:31):
generation of how they birth.
The Best Birth [35:06]
I love that.
I love the phrase that it's never toolate because like you said, it was after
you had your kids, but you were ableto shape so many other people's lives
because of the knowledge that you learned.
And even that awareness piece, the50 % that we talked about knowing that
(35:51):
I have recently been aware that I'vebeen holding my stomach muscles really
tight and not allowing that elongation.
And so being more aware has, hashelped me even now, even though I have.
given birth in the past and don'tknow if I will in the future.
It's just every little change helps.
Kelly Dean [35:42]
Well, and the other thing that I do,it is never too late because the other
(36:14):
part of my work is I actually trainPTs and OTs that work with seniors
that live in skilled nursing facilitiesand long -term care facilities.
I am working on core and pelvic floorat the end of their life when they're
struggling with incontinence, whenthey're struggling with back pain and
(36:35):
constipation.
I work with...
people when they have theirbabies with the little babies.
Like, I mean, we need core and functionalcore and pelvic floor for everything.
It's never too late because when, whenyou, I want you to be strong, like you
may, people may be hearing this afterthey're done having their kids and
they're like, I wish I would have known.
well, but what are you doing now?
(36:57):
You're still a parent.
You're still involved in your community.
You're still involved in your life.
And I want you to feel strong.
I don't want you.
to leak when you coughand sneeze or laugh.
I don't want you to be overwhelmedwith all of feeling like you don't
have the capacity, you don't feelstrong, you don't have the posture.
It's amazing how posture cantransform how you view the world
(37:22):
and how the world views you.
I think it's really, it'snever too late, never too late.
The Best Birth [37:02]
We've heard so much about that superwomanstance or that Superman stance.
I think recently a lot of people aretaking to just, how do you feel after
you stand in this stance for two minutes?
Kelly Dean [37:12]
Right.
Well, yeah.
And I have different ways that dependingon my audience that I share that, you
(37:48):
know, kind of like I sometimes speakat church groups and I'm like, you
need to stand like you're the daughterof a king because you are, right?
The daughter of a king, right?
Royalty stands a certain way.
When I'm talking to athletes, youknow, I also coach a swim team.
It sounds like I do a lot of differentthings, but I have a lot of passions.
So I go a lot of different directions.
(38:09):
I...
but I don't want them likeup on the blocks like this.
I'm like, you stand like an Olympian onthat block, you know, nice and tall and
connected to your body and strong andempowered and ready to go, you know,
like how we hold ourselves matters.
And it actually asks the muscles todo what we need them to do because if
(38:30):
everybody could just sit up taller.
they would have the strength to do it.
As soon as I tell everybody posture,if I even use the word posture
when I'm speaking, everybodyadjusts how they're sitting, but
nobody can maintain it, right?
Because it takes strength and strengthcomes from asking a muscle to do it
something over and over and over again.
(38:50):
So it comes down toconsistency and opportunity.
So I'm going to help you find theopportunities and help you be consistent.
Consistent doesn't mean youhave to be perfect at 100%.
It means what's going to work the best foryour life with what you have every day.
And so I think that that was the biggestthing when I started on my journey to
(39:11):
see who was doing this type of work.
It felt like a lot of pressure to beperfect, a lot of pressure to do so much.
And I had so much to do and I...
just it felt shaming a little bitlike if I wasn't going to do all the
things and I really don't want mywork to feel that way to anybody.
(39:32):
I want them to I want to createopportunities and awareness so that they
can see how even just a little step canchange the direction of the whole ship
you know and small things do matter andjust start small and be successful there.
The Best Birth [39:21]
In the book, Hands Free Mama, shesays, when you finally let go of
perfection, you discover it wasn'tnecessary to carry all that weight to
(39:57):
become the person you were meant to be.
Kelly Dean [39:32]
100%.
100%.
The Best Birth [39:35]
Kelly, this has been anincredible conversation.
We feel completely uplifted, elongated.
We feel like we want to bethat birth goddess and that
birth Olympian that we can be.
I am so excited to share yourresources with all of our listeners.
(40:18):
Are there any other resourcesthat you would recommend?
Maybe a book, another expert.
Kelly Dean [39:55]
Well, there's a lot of cool peopledoing a lot of cool things out there.
I want people to realize that I have,so I am a physical therapist and I
have, I had a clinic for a long timeand I recently transitioned to have a
(40:39):
completely online clinic, which allowsme to treat so many more people and
gives me the flexibility to do all theother teaching that I do and the coaching
and all the other things that I do.
But what's really cool is that,
have free resources on mywebsite, thetummyteam .com.
I have a paid membership that's like$15 a month where you can get just a
(41:02):
weekly series of like how to figure outthe breathing in a week, you know, like
a bunch of just bite -sized pieces forpeople that are in the throes of it.
And then I have...
you know, another level where you couldgo through the rehab course week by
week with videos, me showing you howto do this stuff so that you can go all
the way to prepare for your pregnancy.
(41:23):
You can go preparing for postpartum.
I have a trauma recovery course on there.
I have courses for men, for your husbands.
I have, you know, a course for toddlers.
So there's a lot of resources outthere at a small investment of time and
finances that you can get those resources.
I'm a fan of a lot of peopledoing this work, you know, and
(41:47):
doing different parts of the work.
I think Katie Baumann is reallycool because she talks a lot about
alignment and thinking about howwe sit and stand and how we move.
I've learned a lot from her.
Yeah, I can't think of it.
A lot of the people that I followare not people that, they're not
people that an average mama wouldprobably follow because I'm like,
(42:11):
I'm like, I nerd out on the science of it.
Good.
The Best Birth [41:47]
Nerds are welcome here.
Yes.
I love that you have made thiscare accessible to so many
people by having it online.
Thank you for doing that.
Every week we end by sharing amom squad secret of the week.
And so this one is from Sharon.
She says, if you can save some ofyour maternity leave or vacation days
(42:35):
for the four months sleep regression.
So a good thing to note too, afterthat third, that fourth trimester comes
that four months sleep regression.
Kelly Dean [42:13]
Yeah, so smart.
That's so smart.
I love that.
I wish I had that advice.
The Best Birth [42:21]
Kelly, is there anything elsethat you'd like to share today?
Kelly Dean [42:24]
I know I feel really honoredto be a part of this.
Thank you so much for helping get the wordout for all the things that you are doing.
(42:58):
I know I just do one piece of the puzzle.
I just want people to know thatthere's options out there and this is
a amazing time to be alive in the sensethat if you don't have a specialist
where you live, you have access to aspecialist no matter where you live.
Right.
And I, I love that.
Don't, don't settle for less.
(43:18):
Don't power through.
If something feels intuitivelywrong to you, keep looking.
You just haven't foundthe right answer yet.
And maybe it's me, but it might not be me.
Maybe it's somebody else, but justdon't give up because there's so
many amazing resources out there.
And just don't be scaredto ask your friends.
(43:41):
At the beginning of my story, youknow, like as my sister that checked my
diastasis, it was my girlfriends that...
that made me realize Ineeded to do this work.
It was my church group, mom's group thatwere like, my gosh, help me fix my tummy.
Ask people, don't be shy talking aboutthe things because you'll be surprised
at how many other people are strugglingand maybe they found an answer or
(44:02):
maybe together you can find an answer.
And I think I just want peopleto have hope and encouragement.
The Best Birth [43:41]
We love that.
Thank you so much for sharing today.
Kelly Dean [43:45]
Thanks for having me.
Thanks for joining us on today's episode.
We hope you've been elevated andinspired by this week's expert.
Subscribe today so you never missan episode and please share our
(44:23):
podcast or post on your socialmedia so that other moms and dads
to be can also have the best birth.
Please note that the informationprovided is based on the expert's
insights and personal experience.
It is not intended as medical guidance.
Please seek the advice of yourmedical provider as it applies
to your specific condition.
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