March 1, 2025 • 45 mins
Ever found yourself downplaying your achievements or hesitating to speak up about your skills? You’re not alone. It seems to be a trait that many women have in common.
My guest, Melanie Whittaker from You Are Your Marketing, and I had great fun chatting about pursuing our dreams, PR and personal branding as well as speaking our truth!
In this episode, we’re getting loud about: Why women are conditioned to avoid self-promotion
The fine line between confidence and arrogance—and why you should own your success How corporate roles can stifle authenticity and keep women from showcasing their full potential Mindset shifts & simple habits (like journaling!) to silence imposter syndrome and build unshakable self-belief
It’s time to stop playing small. Grab a drink and join us!
NOTES
You can find Melanie on Instagram here or visit her website here.
Or search Melanie Whittaker or Facebook and LinkedIn.
Download your unmissable FREE Ultimate Personal Brand Story Planner
Join The Personal Branding Academy Membership
Join the free Personal Branding Academy community on Facebook
The ‘Bravery Behind The Brand’ Motivational Song playlist on Spotify
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to the Bravery BehindThe Brand podcast, the podcast
that dives deep into the heartof the stories behind the
brands we encounter on socialmedia every day. On the
surface they make it look soeasy but I guarantee there is
blood, sweat and tears behindall the reels, posts and
beautifully presentedproducts. I'm your host Amanda
Jane, a personal branding andmedia skills coach originally
(00:25):
from the north of Ireland andnow calling beautiful
Cheshire, England my home. Iwork with business owners,
building their confidence andcrafting compelling brand
stories so they feelcomfortable stepping into the
spotlight and becoming thego-to guest that everyone
wants, speaking with authorityand selling with authenticity.
I experience first-hand thecourage that's required to
move beyond our comfort zoneand these are the
inspirational stories I wantto share. I'll also be doing
(00:48):
some solo episodes and sharinguseful tips that will
hopefully help you to getmotivated with your own
personal branding. Becauseit's more than just a
beautiful website and glossyphotos for Instagram, You do
actually have to talk topeople, so let's get started.
(01:11):
Hello everyone and welcome toThe Bravery Behind The Brand
podcast. I'm your host AmandaJane and today I am joined by
the wonderful MelanieWhittaker, who at the moment
is sat in sunny Gran Canaria.And if you look closely, I'm
just sorry, I was just gettingrid of this thing off the
(01:31):
screen. If you look closely,Melanie's sat in lovely
somewhere. So it's ninedegrees in Cheshire, England.
And what temperature is itthere, Melanie? Well, I would
imagine at this very moment,it's probably about 24 degrees
at the minute, roughly. Soit's just the contrast. So I'm
(01:57):
hoping that the Wi Fi is gonnais gonna Stay on our side, but
it should be fine. We have noproblems, but it's just so
nice to be able to talk to youbecause we've been messaging
for a few weeks and I've beenlooking forward to this. It's
going to be lively if nothingelse. So before we get stuck
in, I'm just going to ask youthe three questions. So do you
(02:20):
have a motivational song, onethat you do when you're doing
the cleaning or you need tolift yourself out of a mood?
Yeah, it's Grateful by RitaOra. I think the words to that
song... I mean, it's a reallynice song, the tune's lovely,
but the words really speak tome. Yeah, yeah. I can't think
(02:42):
of that one. I'll put it onthe playlist anyway because
there's a playlist that comeswith this podcast. I'm not
going to sing it because youwant people to listen to this.
You know, I should do that. Ishould do that to them I
guess. Yeah, by the way, ifyou're coming on the podcast,
do you have to sing it's song?And do you have a favourite
(03:05):
motivational quote? I do. Andit's my own quote. And this
comes from when I moved fromthe UK to Gran Canaria. And as
you would imagine, people wereasking me all the time, why
there and why do you want tomove? And it was why, why,
why. And it got to the pointwhere I got fed up explaining
(03:28):
why I wanted to move. So oneday this thought came in my
head, which is dreams do notneed to be explained, but they
do need to be lived. Sowhatever you want to do in
your life, If you're feelinglike everyone's wanting an
explanation, stop explainingit and just go live your best
(03:50):
life. I love that. That isjust so profound. You're gonna
have to put that behind youlike this and just put it up
there. That's just so, soprofound. It's absolutely
amazing. I think I would havebeen saying, well, why not?
(04:11):
And then it just got to thepoint where I was just like,
It doesn't matter what I say,they just are not getting it.
So I was like, I'm fed upexplaining it now. And that in
a way was even more incentiveto do it. Because I'm just fed
up explaining it, I shouldjust go and do it now. you
know, my husband and I, wewatch a lot of those shows,
(04:34):
Place In The Sun and all ofthat. And it's just so
incredible to, oh, just to getup and do it and go. I just
think, wow, amazing. Is thatnot everyone's dream? You
know? Exactly, exactly. Andonce you've done it, I mean,
like what you've said, nowyou're sat there in cold
(04:54):
weather and it's just anotherpiece of the grand canary. And
you know, it's Look, I stillget happy every day waking up
to sun, that will never, neverget old. But you do become a
little bit complacent and youforget how bad it is and it'll
take someone sending me avideo or a photo of what
(05:14):
they're dealing with and I'mlike, oh, yeah. It's like
everything, you know, thegrass isn't always greener,
you've got to miss something.And I've lived abroad for, you
know, for different thingsover my life. And I did miss
the very, very simple things.And now I live in England,
obviously I'm Irish. Oh, Imiss some very basic things
(05:36):
from Ireland. Like there'sthings that you can't get here
that I can get when I go home,you know, different breads and
stuff. But to have thatfreedom and make that change
in your life, I just think,Wow. And if you change your
mind, you can change yourfreedom to change your mind.
Exactly. And it's just, youknow, why, I think you would
(05:56):
have, you would beat yourselfup if you had not done it, but
to go and do it and have thatlived experience, I just
think, wow, that is amazing.And we've, we've been
messaging to and fro, andyou've been sending me little
videos of your pantry. And Ijust think, wow, that is just,
wow. So you live that freedom.That's great to me at
everything. Like, It's stupidlittle things like the other
(06:20):
day, obviously it's winterstill and I just put my
washing out and it was dry ina few hours and it's winter.
Do you know what I mean? Yeah,and that part of the world, I
absolutely adore that part ofthe world. And that's why,
isn't it? It's just all yearround. It's just glorious. So
you are going to have to getthat, your quote, on your wall
(06:43):
somewhere. And that's the nextvideo photograph you're going
to send me. Look Amanda, I'vegot it on my wall. I've got a
t-shirt. I'm alwaysthreatening everyone I'm going
to get a t-shirt. So my nextquestion is, do you read I'm
gonna say and hold my hand upthat I don't read as much as
what I used to do but I amgoing to start reading again
(07:05):
so I do hold my hands up andsay I'm not reading as much as
I should. Oh it's okay it'snot a prerequisite I'm just
nosy. Have you got a favouritebook maybe that you have read?
Yeah and I can't remember thename of the author but And
it's called Feel the Fear andDo It Anyway. And I started
(07:25):
reading that on the build upto me coming out here as well,
because, you know, there'salways going to be fear, fear
is never going to go away. Andthe beauty of that book is it
teaches you how to deal withyour fear. Mm hmm. And look
(07:46):
what you did. And I love it.If I've got something that I
need to do, and I'm terrifiedof doing it, the minute
afterwards, I will gosomewhere quiet and in my head
I'll be going, I did it, I didit, I did it. You know, the
achievement of doing somethingthat you're afraid of. I don't
think there's anything likeit, but maybe that book should
(08:08):
come with a warning. Feel thefear, you might find yourself
in Gran Canaria. Exactly. I'vegot that on my bookshelf. I
haven't read it, but I amgoing to read it. This
podcast, we've had so manywonderful suggestions, but I
love that. But yeah, I'm justamazed that it inspired you so
(08:29):
much to have done that page.But wow, amazing. You'll have
to dig it out again.Definitely. So on to you and
your business. So tell meabout your business and who or
what inspired you to startWell, I always knew at one
(08:50):
point I'd want to do somethinglike this, but I wasn't quite
sure. Just to fill everyonein. So when I did live in
England, I worked as asecretary. So, you know, bog
standard, run of the millwork. When I came here, I knew
that I was going to give thatup. And I also knew that I
(09:14):
would work front of housebecause I've got a gob, I'm
friendly, you know, and that'swhat tourists want. They don't
want a wallflower. They wantsomeone who's got personality.
So I did that. And it wasamazing. And then as we
already know, 2020 happened.And that was a very, look, it
(09:37):
was scary for everyone, we allknow that. But because these
islands survive off tourism,and they took the tourists
away for six months. So, youknow, if you take tourists
away from these islands,they've got nothing. That's
what they live off. It's theirbread and butter. And so it
(09:57):
was a very weird time when theislands reopened. And
obviously, not as manytourists were coming out, a
lot of people didn't want totravel. As we know, countries
were making it hard for themto travel. So it wasn't just
as easy as hopping on a flightand having a week or two weeks
in the sun, you had to jumpthrough a lot of hoops to get
(10:19):
on holiday. And the byproductof that was I started
promoting restaurants onsocial media. And I have seen
through the power of socialmedia, it's make or brave.
(10:41):
Social media will make orbreak you as a business. Now,
I'm not saying to be scared ofwhat customers can write,
because quite honestly, you'renever going to please the
public all the time in therestaurant game. So that's
just stupid to even try toeven do that. What I'm meaning
is, you know, a lot, somerestaurants out here even now
(11:06):
have the attitude our doorsare open, they will come,
especially when people havebeen coming here for years and
that's not the way anymore.You know, and you can liken
this to any industry. As weknow, the customer is king and
the way customers buy now isvery different, very
(11:28):
different. So even thoughtourists know these islands
very well, They're in theFacebook groups, they're
scrolling, they're looking forwhere they want to go. And so,
you know, whatever yourbusiness is, and you're
listening to this, I want tothrow that to you. How much
(11:48):
are you involving customers inwhat you do? People don't want
to be talked at, they want tofeel they're a part of it.
Now, okay, the restaurant gameand me being front of house,
obviously, I was frontline.Well, I want to liken it to
you. You may not be in therestaurant game, but you do
need to involve customers. Andso what happened was I started
(12:13):
being in Facebook groups. Istarted promoting for
restaurants online and I just,you could see how powerful
that was. And then I'm intouch with a lot of coaches.
I've been friends with a lotof coaches for a long time and
a client of mine who I'm stillworking with, She reached out
to me and she said, I'm goingto start running retreats
(12:38):
because she lives in theproperty. She's got a gorgeous
property in Dal Beattie,Scotland. And she said, I'm
going to host several retreatsa year and I want you to do
the PR for me. And that rightthere in that moment was like
someone just giving me mydream job. It was like the
(12:58):
stars aligned. I was just inheaven. I was in heaven. I
love it. I love it. Thatsounds absolutely amazing and
stars aligning as well andyou're right involving the
customers and just from my ownexperience because I like to
go to Lanzarote as an example.There's a big Facebook group
(13:21):
and people will mentionrestaurants on there and
they'll plan the trip beforethey go and lots of people
will comment and people mayalready have their plans
months before they even getthere. And people will
constantly share theirexperiences, but
interestingly, they'll sharetheir bad ones. It may be
biased, it may be wrong forwhatever reason, but they will
(13:45):
put it and people willcomment. But the power of that
now in that moment is, you'reright, absolutely
unbelievable. And thecompetition. on those holiday
destinations. It's not like itwas before where you could
stand outside, hand out aleaflet with a two-for-one or
whatever. Our customers arevery well educated before
(14:06):
they've even got off the planeand it's an experience. When I
brought it online, I wastreating people in the
Facebook groups exactly theway I would if they were face
to face with me. My deliveryhas never been over the top. I
don't do gimmicks. I'm a veryrelaxed way, style and
(14:32):
delivery. And most PRs willjump straight in and say, hey,
here's the table, sit down,come on in, come on in. And to
me, I hate it. You know, it'slike listening to the circus,
come on up, come on up, thecircus is in town, like,
that's not how I operate. So Iwould always catch people
unawares. Because obviously,as you say, competitions
(14:53):
first, so they've spoken toloads of PRs. And the way I
would do it is say, hey, howwas your day today? Were you
at the pool? Were you at thebeach? Or did you go on a
trip? And they were so... Theycouldn't believe that I wanted
to know how their day was.They were like, why are you
not telling us to go in yourrestaurant? And I go, because
you're either going to go inor not. But you're on holiday.
(15:15):
You've had an amazing day.What did you do? And that
would just be the icebreaker.Straight away, they don't feel
threatened. Now, sometimes itcould be, well, you know what,
we're not going to go intonight, but we'll remember
you because we really like theway you spoke to us. Or it
could be that they'd be like,do you know what? We really
like how you're doing this.Where's your menu? We'll take
(15:36):
a look. Now here's the thing.Doing that kind of job, you
can make or break a restaurantin your delivery. You can have
the best menu in town, thebest decor, the service can be
fantastic. But if your PR isannoying people, Game over. So
(16:00):
that's what I teach my clientsin how is your delivery and
how are you marketing yourbusiness. And it's building
that relationship and gettingthem to share that narrative
about their holiday. Oh, wedid this or we that. And it's
just, I'm always saying, it'sjust having a conversation,
getting to know people.Because the humans... And I
(16:23):
used to joke with them becausesometimes, you know, they'd
be, they'd feel reallyapologetic because obviously
I've asked how their day wasand if they're not coming in,
they'd be like, Oh, we feelreally bad now, but we've
reserved a table and I'd say,don't be silly, like you're on
holiday. Even if you nevercome in, it's your holiday,
you do what you want to do.But then I would crack a joke
with some people and I go,don't worry, you're my next
(16:43):
challenge. I'll get you.You're here for at least
another seven or ten days ormaybe fourteen. I will get
you. And just come back, yeah.The devil comes after me. It's
how you are with people and,you know, as business owners,
you're so fixated on makingthe sale and that energy can
(17:04):
come across. But here's thething, just because someone
doesn't buy there and then,does not mean they're not
going to buy later. Yeah.Example I can give you right
now is I've got two potentialclients circling around me and
I spoke to both of them a yearago. One has just confirmed
(17:25):
she's going to work with methis afternoon and the other
one where she's waiting on afew other things and that's
looking like that's going tohappen. So what I want to say
for those of you who arerunning an online business and
maybe you're so in your headand you're like, oh my God, I
need to make sales. Take thatpressure off. Literally take
(17:45):
off and just be nice withpeople, talk with people,
communicate with people, be ofservice and just because
someone says no doesn't meanit will always be no. Yeah and
it possibly is not yet. That'sone of the things I always
have, not yet. And for me, Ialways try, I always say, I
(18:07):
want to have moreconversations today rather
than, oh, I'm going to dothis, I'm going to do that.
And you, if you don't connectwell with someone, you know,
they're not, you know, if youknow, they're not going to be
right for you, they're notgoing to make a client, you
know, that I would rather say,oh, you know, we're not a good
fit or whatever. And that's,you're only going to work that
out with a good conversation.And, If you don't sort of do
(18:30):
something up front it's notgoing to work out further down
the line but for me the keyfor everything is good
communication, goodconversations and you're right
people just because you thinkoh it has to be done today
they could come out you knowsix months, 12 months down the
line but you've already builtup that relationship, built up
that that foundation andthings Everything's a slow
(18:50):
burner, nothing, unless you'reselling widgets and you're,
you know, it just doesn't workthat way in our world, I don't
think. So with all that inmind, then what would you say
has been your biggestchallenge in your in your
adventure and your business?Hmm, biggest challenge. Hmm.
(19:13):
It's funny, you know, like,I've got a client now who I'm
working with, And we've workedtogether on and off for three
years. And look, she knew PRbefore she even hired me. So
she taught me a lot. Andthe thing is, when I sit down
(19:34):
with her and me and her talkabout PR, we go really deep in
the conversation, because wejust know it. And so we just
get it. When I was doing thebook collaboration when she
launched her book in October,there was a group of 30 women
and they'd never done PRbefore. So the conversations
(19:56):
that I would have with themwere totally different than
what I would have with her.And so there was more
explaining involved. And sothe challenge in that, I would
say, is obviously that's 30women. That's a lot of people
to PR for. And alsohelping them learn the
(20:20):
difference between marketingand PR and why you're doing
things a certain way and howyou're supposed to do it and
when you're supposed to do it.And so that I would say was my
hardest challenge. But that'sonly because they didn't know
it and anyone who's not doneit before, it's a whole new
(20:41):
way of doing things. And 30people is a lot of people to
have to, right. This is why wedo that. Yeah, that is huge.
Absolutely huge. Well, if youhad to give yourself a piece
of advice in that case, we'lluse your baseline as when you
went out to Grand Canary. Ifyou had to give yourself one
(21:02):
piece of advice, what would itbe for your business?
I was thinking, oh, what do Igo with? What do I go with?
And then it was like, duh, theobvious. And it's what I tell
my clients all the time,because sometimes they'll come
(21:25):
to me and they'll be like, oh,what should I do and how
should I do it? And they'lltie themselves up in knots.
And I always tell them this.And this is my biggest advice
for myself. Just be yourself.Now we hear that phrase all
the time, but with PR, PR isliterally you on steroids
(21:45):
because now you're not justappearing on social media and
then sending an email to youremail list. You're going to be
everywhere and you're going tobe on bigger platforms. More
people are going to know aboutyou. And, you know, I
predominantly work with womenand as women we can get two in
(22:05):
our own heads. And sometimesI'll get PR for a client And
they'll want to ask mequestions and I get it because
they're nervous and they don'twant to sell themselves short
in an interview, I get it. ButI also can tell when it's real
fear. And when they're askingme loads and loads of
(22:27):
questions on how should I dothis and how should I do that.
And I'll listen to what theysay, and I take it on board
and I advise them and I showthem, you know, how to go
about it. And then what I sayto them is, when you do that
interview, don't race throughit. Pause when you need to get
(22:50):
a clear mind. And if you'reasked a question, you're like,
Oh, what do I say? All you cando is be you don't try and
come up with a clever answer.Don't try and be something
you're not. Don't be thinking,oh, I'm in this industry so I
should answer it this way. Thebeauty of PR is being yourself
(23:11):
and that's how you get clientsbecause you're being real,
you're being relatable andyou're speaking your own voice
and your own life experienceand nobody can do that for
you. I think people sellthemselves short and when it
comes to PR and their personalbrand, And that's something
I'm always banging on about,be yourself, because your
(23:32):
personality is really the onlything you own. It's you. And
the minute you try to maskthat, you can't sustain it.
And that's when you get thefakery, when you're Not
showing up as your authenticself and that word's overused
but I don't think it's usedenough in some contexts
because people buy from peopleand there's a bit of a cliche
(23:53):
as well but they do like yousaid about the restaurant
they'll come back because thatlady was really nice oh she
was funny oh she said this shesaid that But putting that
memory in that person's mind,if you can get that across,
that part of your personality,you've won half the battle.
But when you're on the otherside and you're trying to prep
(24:14):
someone for that, it worriesme that so many people are
uncomfortable beingthemselves. And I spend a lot
of time trying to draw outWe're
really, really good at biggingup other people, but not
(24:34):
ourselves. And you'll runaround saying, oh, she's
great. She does this and she'sgreat. She does that. I would
get that person to say, tellme three things that you're
really good at. And peoplereally struggle. Do you know
what I mean? It bothers methat as an individual, it's
really hard to get thatperson. I want to add on to
(24:56):
what you're saying therebecause I 100% agree with you.
And there's two reasons why Ipersonally feel that goes on.
Number one, women are made tofeel like you shouldn't brag,
you shouldn't talk aboutyourself, you should be miss
humble, all of this stuff,right? And so women worry, you
(25:20):
know, we've all heard, youknow, we all know that phrase
as women, who does she thinkshe is, right? And so women so
afraid to just slightly shine.I'm not meaning mega shine,
I'm meaning slightly shine.They're worried about the
comeback. Will people laugh atthat? Will people mock that?
And so that goes on in theirheads. And then number two, if
(25:44):
you have worked in corporate,you're told to fit in a box.
And even though your skill setcan be outside of the box,
they don't want you doinganything outside of the box.
They want you to just sit inthat box and do what's asked.
And I think this is wherepeople, when they start to run
(26:04):
a business, worry becausethey're like, oh, people are
going to think I'm big headedor that I'm in love with
myself. There's a fine linebetween running around like a
peacock, you know, reign it ina bit when you have to, don't
get too carried away. Butlook, if you don't believe in
yourself, why should acustomer? Exactly. And that
(26:25):
comes across and there'sanother level that you've got
to reach. And one of my thingsI said, the only way to be
comfortable in the spotlightis to believe you belong
there. So I do a lot ofpre-work to get people
confident You've got to doyour power pose and sit and in
your mind think I belong herethis is where I should be and
(26:48):
it takes a bit of mindset nota huge amount but it's just
getting that person from thatA to B and one of the things
you know journaling andevidence building and working
out all the things that you'vecategorically done so your
brain can't lie to you and sayoh you're a fraud But just
getting that person up thatnext notch to go, well,
(27:09):
actually, you know what? I amreally good at this. I'm good
at X, Y and Z. And I thinkmore people need to do it, but
more people need to see morepeople doing it with
confidence and saying, I'mactually really good at this
because of blah, blah, blah,blah, blah. But I think maybe
there's a little shift as wellbecause I've noticed it in
(27:30):
younger people. They seem tobe a bit more brave about
jumping out there and going,you know what, I am this. But
then if you think about it,the younger generation now,
they're growing up with amindset like, I don't need to
come. out for me until I wasin my last year of senior
(27:52):
school. So we didn't know theinternet, we didn't know being
online, we didn't know doingfunny videos, like we just
didn't know it. And so I cansee why they have more
confidence. Because it's theirlife. Yeah. And they're almost
born with the phone. And oneof the things that I noticed,
particularly in my childrenwhen they were younger, people
(28:12):
my age, we had to be educatedinto sitting in front of a
camera and record ourselves.Whereas these younger people,
they're walking down thestreet and they're filming
themselves walking past,whatever, because it's just a
natural thing to talk intocamera, which I think is
amazing that they just seem tohave this inbuilt ability. But
it's not everywhere, but Thatgenerational shift is just so,
(28:37):
so interesting. But I love itwhen I see someone just sat
there unscripted. I don't liketo do scripts because the
minute I start to do scripts,it looks like I'm reading the
news. So if I'm doingsomething on camera, because I
actually was media trainedvery formally. And so when I
(28:57):
was taught, I've been sayingthis on loads of things, but
you're taught to analyse yourown sort of micro whatever. So
when I was doing my meeting, Iused to do this. So I had to
really train myself to talklike this very, very still.
But it looks like I'm readingthe news. But that doesn't
work on social media. You needto be a little bit more
(29:19):
engaging and you need to useyour hands and you know, you
need to have a personality toshow. So I've had to unlearn
those skills, you know, that Istill would need in corporate,
but on social media, it'scompletely different. But it's
just really interesting tosort of unpick all those
things. You cannot sustainfakeness. I just don't think
(29:43):
you can. The truth will comeout. So if you are presenting
to the world this image of whoyou are, Your mask will slip,
especially if you're a coachor you're a service provider
and you're working one-on-one,even if you're working in a
(30:04):
group, eventually you'll slip.So if you're trying, look, I
don't want to get into thisbecause people have their own
opinion and this is not whyI'm saying it, but you hear a
lot of people where peoplewill say things like, oh, do
you think it's good that Iswear when I'm doing my
marketing, I'm never going tosay yes or no to someone
because that's the personalchoice. What I will say is, If
(30:27):
swearing is what you do, ifyou're trying to look like
Snow White online and then youget on a Zoom call and you're
dropping F bombs here, thereand everywhere and just saying
all kinds of things, thenyou've mis-sold yourself to a
customer. And if someonereally hates swearing, they're
(30:48):
going to be put right off. Andwhat I don't like is when
people just swear every otherword, you know, it's like, But
you know, what I want to sayis, and I say this a lot, when
you see me online, I amexactly the same as if you met
me in the real world. Andthat's what I say to people,
(31:10):
if this is how you show up, dothat. Because if you're trying
to pretend to be somethingelse, it won't work. Yeah that
is so true and you should bethat same person because
people should know whatthey're getting with you and
if you all of a sudden changegear and you're you're this
other persona you're going tofeel a little bit shortchanged
(31:31):
aren't you regardless of whatthat looks like and yeah yeah
and I think you're right yeahit's like walking the walk
isn't it you've just got toWhat you see is what you get
and that's just it. Now it'sso interesting I could go on
and on about that for ages. SoI know the answer to this
question but I don't want tojudge. So how comfortable are
you showing up online for youraudience? I am
(31:57):
so comfortable. I mean, don'tget me wrong. I've never been
a fan of going live onFacebook. You know, I'm not a
fan of it. I do it. I'm justnot a fan of it. I still have
to get myself to do it. Buthere's the thing. Whatever you
say, whether I write anarticle, write a social media
post, write an email, write ablog, go live with someone, do
(32:19):
a podcast interview, go ondigital TV, whatever it is,
it's me. It's me. And soI just want to say to anyone
listening to this podcast, ifyou're second guessing
yourself, right? I'll give youan example. When I'm scrolling
(32:44):
through my feed, I can comeacross a complete and utter
stranger. Don't know them.Don't even know what they do.
But I can read the words or Ican watch the video and I will
know whether they're reallyfeeling that because a lot of
(33:04):
people just put any old stuffup to keep the algorithm happy
and I can feel it. I can feelit the way they talk or like
if the video's got no kind oflike oomph to it, I'm like,
yeah, you're just doing thisbecause you need to. So what I
say to my clients is, becauseI want my talk, Stop worrying
(33:26):
about everybody else becauseit's so easy in the online
space. Now, don't get mewrong. Of course, it's good to
see what the competition aredoing and that's healthy. What
isn't healthy is when, youknow, we see it a lot. You can
see people who sometimes I'llsee a post somewhere And then
a few moments later, I'll seethe post somewhere else again
(33:47):
and I know it's been copied. Iknow it's been copied. And I'm
like, why are you doing this?Those are not your words.
You've just seen something,thought it was great or you've
seen maybe it's worked forthat person. So now you're
going to copy that. Numberone, it's wrong. You mean
copied from someone else'scontent? Is that what you
mean? Not repurposed fromtheir own content? Yeah.
(34:11):
People, I mean, I see ithappen a lot and I, you know,
you'll get a lot of coacheswho'll come online and say,
I'm really angry because... Idid see that yesterday. You
know, someone had, someone hadliterally copied a coach's
stuff and hadn't even takenthe name out. And I was just
like, yeah, people actually dothat. Oh, yeah. It's
(34:32):
plagiarism. If you're inuniversity, what can you do
with the online space? Youknow, there's, there's not a
lot you can do. What I wouldsay to someone, you know, if
someone's listening to thisnow, and if it's happened to
you, or it does happen to you,always know this. They're
(34:53):
probably threatened by you.They see something in you they
wish they had themselves. Solook, it isn't nice. Of
course, it's not nice. No onewants that to happen. But what
I will say is they are notgoing to know their next move
till they work out what yoursis. So they're constantly
trying to think, what's shegoing to do next? And this is
(35:14):
why I say to my clients, stopworrying about everyone else.
When you talk the way youtalk, Walk the way you walk
and just do you all of asudden which you're gonna do
if you're gonna do PR becauseyou're being you. All of a
sudden the competition doesn'tmatter anymore because they
(35:35):
can't be you and you can't bethem. And so you're not
competing with anyone now,you're just showing up and
being yourself. I think itkind of takes the pressure off
because one of the things Ilike to do is if I'm not
feeling it, because I'verecorded videos and I've been
like, nah, I'm only doing thatbecause I have to. So I'll sit
down with a blank piece ofpaper and I'll think, right,
(35:56):
what does my ideal client looklike? Who is she? And I'll
have this image of thisperson. And I'll just think,
what am I feeling? What do Iwant to do? And then I can
come up with one of my postsand it's, how can I explain
it? It's genuine. I know it'scome from the heart. And when
I'm doing podcasts or when I'mon videos, I'm not good doing
it on my own. I am a a chattyperson. I love chatting to
(36:20):
other people. I'm not good attalking to myself. So when I
have to do, you know, piecesby myself, that's where I
struggle the most because Ilike to bounce off. I'm like,
yeah, yeah, you know, but whenit comes to content, I like to
have a process and I have toshield away everybody else
(36:40):
because I don't like to beinfluenced by what I see. I
like it to be mine. And I liketo think, what do I want to
say today? What, what, what doI want to send out into the
universe? And because you canbe so easily influenced. And
I've had a few things thathave been, that have been
repurposed elsewhere, youknow, and I just, I don't, I
don't like it, but I try tohave some things come out of,
(37:03):
you know, that are mine, thatare a hundred percent mine,
because that to me is theworst thing you can do to
anybody is to take your ownAnd the audacity of some
people when they don't evenhave to take the name out.
That was one yesterday and Icouldn't believe it. But yeah,
thank you people if youlisted. There's something else
(37:24):
I want to say that fits inwith what we're discussing. So
sometimes I'll hop on a callwith a client and I get it,
they're about to do aninterview and they'll be like,
oh, do you think I should saythis? Do you think I should
say that? And they're wantingadvice, which is only normal.
But then what I always say tothem is this. What do you want
(37:47):
to say? Because thisultimately is you talking your
truth. And if you feel thatyour truth may rock the boat,
so be it. Because at the endof the day, your head can hit
the pillow at the end of thenight going, I spoke my truth.
People don't jive with yourtruth. That's okay. Don't feel
(38:11):
like you have to show up acertain way, act a certain
way, say certain things.Because when you try and do
that, you're going to becomelike a puppet on a string. So
when they get a little bit tooin their head, and I know a
lot of the times it's a veryimportant interview and they
don't want to let themselvesdown. What I always say to
them is, Just talk your truthbecause I can't do that for
(38:37):
you. No one else can do it foryou. And you know what? If
certain people don't like whatyou said, that's okay. Because
we can't be liked by everyone.But you know what? By you
being brave enough to speakyour truth, someone could see
that interview and go, wow,I'm going for that right now.
(38:59):
And all of a sudden they don'tfeel alone. And so, yes, it
can feel scary sometimes,like, should I say this? How
will it get received? But youknow what? There comes a point
where you just have to go forYou do and you're not in the
business of pleasing everyoneand if you are polarising with
(39:22):
your views, and I don't meanbe controversial for
controversial sake, if youspeak your truth and there's
people that don't like it,that means that there are
people that do like it andthey're the ones that matter,
they're the ones that you wantto do business with. And you
want to isolate those peoplebecause they're the ones that
resonate with your values andyour brand. And the people
(39:43):
that don't, that's fine, theycan go in their merry way. But
you're not going to reachanybody if it's just, you
know, plain, plain, plain,plain, because no one's going
to resonate with you. You'renot saying the right things,
they're not connecting withyou. And that's okay too, but
it always amuses me wheneverpeople ask people like us,
what should I say? You're justlike, what are you asking me
for? Because that's nevergoing to work either. And you
(40:07):
know, you're not going to giveso much material back to
scripts again, because it hasto come from you because it is
unsustainable if it doesn'tcome from you. And people are
a little bit afraid to drop ina little bit of a, well, I
think this and you know what,it's okay to have an opinion.
It's okay to speak your owntruth, like you say. And You
know what's interesting? Samewith what I said to you at the
(40:30):
beginning about dreams don'tneed to be explained, they
just need to be lived.Early on in my journey with
(40:54):
this, I felt I needed toexplain to people online why I
felt the way I felt, why Isaid the things I said. And
now I can actually see acomment on my... I don't get
many. But if I was to get acomment that really is just
trying to stir somecontroversy, I don't even
(41:18):
respond to it. I'm like,They're allowed to feel what
they want to feel. I'm allowedto feel what I want to feel.
They may want to start a wholesaga of trouble over there but
I don't want to. I've saidwhat I've said. And if you
like it, you like it. If youdon't, you don't. Like, just
we're adults. Let's get onwith our day. And isn't that
(41:41):
so freeing? That's soliberating to not feel that
responsibility. But I have tomake them understand that, you
know, this is my opinion. AndI think there's a period in
your life where you feelcompelled to go back. But no,
you're right. You know, justdon't roll on. No, I'm just
like, come on. I can't even bebothered giving it energy
(42:05):
because there's a way ofapproaching something. Like I
could see someone's post, I'veread what they've said and
saying, oh, I don't agree withthat. Now, how I come onto
that post, they're going toknow whether I'm questioning
in an amicable way or I'mstirring it. And if someone's
(42:26):
stirring it, I'm not going toget into that because I've got
better things to do. No but bythe same token if you're
having a good conversationwith someone and I love it
when someone in a healthy waychallenges your ideas or you
have a discussion and I loveit when someone helps me to
see another point of view youknow and I just love getting
(42:46):
that you know that and I'llyou know you're right you know
you haven't considered anotherway that's that's something
else. Creative speech.Sometimes people will put a
comment on a post and youknow, they want trouble. Oh,
yeah. I'm not going there.Yeah. Well, yeah, I agree. I'm
all for a healthy debate. I'mall for someone, you know,
(43:06):
sometimes someone can saysomething like, Oh, my God, I
never even thought that. Yeah,that's great. That's an
amicable, adult conversationwhere two people disagree, but
they're still being civilabout it. It's when people Say
nasty comments for nasty sakeor they're trying to get a
reaction from you. I'm like,nah, I'm not going there
(43:28):
because it's only going tomake a hobby out of it. You
know, when you see some randomthings, like you said, I think
some people do. It is actuallya hobby for a hobby for them.
Brings to almost the end ofthis. I have loved it all. So
tell me, where can we find outabout you online? Okay, so my
(43:50):
website isYouAreYourMarketing.com. I
will put these links in theshow notes, by the way.
Perfect. You can also find meon Instagram with the same
name, YouAreYourMarketing. Andyou can find me on Facebook.
With the name MelanieWhittaker, which is spelt
(44:11):
W-H-I-T-T-A-K-E-R and the samename Melanie Whittaker on
LinkedIn. Wonderful. Oh, thankyou so much for coming on my
podcast. It's been so muchfun. We could.
It's been absolutely fabulous.Thank you so much and lovely
(44:34):
to have you. Thank you somuch. I've enjoyed it. Thank
you for listening today andspecial thanks to my fantastic
guest Melanie Whittaker forsharing her incredible story
with us. If you want toincrease your visibility as
well as your sales with yourpersonal brand strategy, don't
miss out on my free resourcesor you can join the Personal
Branding Academy membership.You'll find all the relevant
(44:56):
links in the podcast notes aswell as the links that Melanie
mentioned in the podcast. Andif you liked the episode,
please leave a review andshare it with your friends.
Join me on the next episodefor more incredible bravery
behind the brand stories. Youcan follow me on Instagram at
coachamandajane or visit mywebsite amandajane.co.uk. Bye
for now!
Welcome to the Bravery BehindThe Brand podcast, the podcast
that dives deep into the heartof the stories behind the
brands we encounter on socialmedia every day. On the
surface they make it look soeasy but I guarantee there is
blood, sweat and tears behindall the reels, posts and
beautifully presentedproducts. I'm your host Amanda
Jane, a personal branding andmedia skills coach originally
(00:25):
from the north of Ireland andnow calling beautiful
Cheshire, England my home. Iwork with business owners,
building their confidence andcrafting compelling brand
stories so they feelcomfortable stepping into the
spotlight and becoming thego-to guest that everyone
wants, speaking with authorityand selling with authenticity.
I experience first-hand thecourage that's required to
move beyond our comfort zoneand these are the
inspirational stories I wantto share. I'll also be doing
(00:48):
some solo episodes and sharinguseful tips that will
hopefully help you to getmotivated with your own
personal branding. Becauseit's more than just a
beautiful website and glossyphotos for Instagram, You do
actually have to talk topeople, so let's get started.
(01:11):
Hello everyone and welcome toThe Bravery Behind The Brand
podcast. I'm your host AmandaJane and today I am joined by
the wonderful MelanieWhittaker, who at the moment
is sat in sunny Gran Canaria.And if you look closely, I'm
just sorry, I was just gettingrid of this thing off the
(01:31):
screen. If you look closely,Melanie's sat in lovely
somewhere. So it's ninedegrees in Cheshire, England.
And what temperature is itthere, Melanie? Well, I would
imagine at this very moment,it's probably about 24 degrees
at the minute, roughly. Soit's just the contrast. So I'm
(01:57):
hoping that the Wi Fi is gonnais gonna Stay on our side, but
it should be fine. We have noproblems, but it's just so
nice to be able to talk to youbecause we've been messaging
for a few weeks and I've beenlooking forward to this. It's
going to be lively if nothingelse. So before we get stuck
in, I'm just going to ask youthe three questions. So do you
(02:20):
have a motivational song, onethat you do when you're doing
the cleaning or you need tolift yourself out of a mood?
Yeah, it's Grateful by RitaOra. I think the words to that
song... I mean, it's a reallynice song, the tune's lovely,
but the words really speak tome. Yeah, yeah. I can't think
(02:42):
of that one. I'll put it onthe playlist anyway because
there's a playlist that comeswith this podcast. I'm not
going to sing it because youwant people to listen to this.
You know, I should do that. Ishould do that to them I
guess. Yeah, by the way, ifyou're coming on the podcast,
do you have to sing it's song?And do you have a favourite
(03:05):
motivational quote? I do. Andit's my own quote. And this
comes from when I moved fromthe UK to Gran Canaria. And as
you would imagine, people wereasking me all the time, why
there and why do you want tomove? And it was why, why,
why. And it got to the pointwhere I got fed up explaining
(03:28):
why I wanted to move. So oneday this thought came in my
head, which is dreams do notneed to be explained, but they
do need to be lived. Sowhatever you want to do in
your life, If you're feelinglike everyone's wanting an
explanation, stop explainingit and just go live your best
(03:50):
life. I love that. That isjust so profound. You're gonna
have to put that behind youlike this and just put it up
there. That's just so, soprofound. It's absolutely
amazing. I think I would havebeen saying, well, why not?
(04:11):
And then it just got to thepoint where I was just like,
It doesn't matter what I say,they just are not getting it.
So I was like, I'm fed upexplaining it now. And that in
a way was even more incentiveto do it. Because I'm just fed
up explaining it, I shouldjust go and do it now. you
know, my husband and I, wewatch a lot of those shows,
(04:34):
Place In The Sun and all ofthat. And it's just so
incredible to, oh, just to getup and do it and go. I just
think, wow, amazing. Is thatnot everyone's dream? You
know? Exactly, exactly. Andonce you've done it, I mean,
like what you've said, nowyou're sat there in cold
(04:54):
weather and it's just anotherpiece of the grand canary. And
you know, it's Look, I stillget happy every day waking up
to sun, that will never, neverget old. But you do become a
little bit complacent and youforget how bad it is and it'll
take someone sending me avideo or a photo of what
(05:14):
they're dealing with and I'mlike, oh, yeah. It's like
everything, you know, thegrass isn't always greener,
you've got to miss something.And I've lived abroad for, you
know, for different thingsover my life. And I did miss
the very, very simple things.And now I live in England,
obviously I'm Irish. Oh, Imiss some very basic things
(05:36):
from Ireland. Like there'sthings that you can't get here
that I can get when I go home,you know, different breads and
stuff. But to have thatfreedom and make that change
in your life, I just think,Wow. And if you change your
mind, you can change yourfreedom to change your mind.
Exactly. And it's just, youknow, why, I think you would
(05:56):
have, you would beat yourselfup if you had not done it, but
to go and do it and have thatlived experience, I just
think, wow, that is amazing.And we've, we've been
messaging to and fro, andyou've been sending me little
videos of your pantry. And Ijust think, wow, that is just,
wow. So you live that freedom.That's great to me at
everything. Like, It's stupidlittle things like the other
(06:20):
day, obviously it's winterstill and I just put my
washing out and it was dry ina few hours and it's winter.
Do you know what I mean? Yeah,and that part of the world, I
absolutely adore that part ofthe world. And that's why,
isn't it? It's just all yearround. It's just glorious. So
you are going to have to getthat, your quote, on your wall
(06:43):
somewhere. And that's the nextvideo photograph you're going
to send me. Look Amanda, I'vegot it on my wall. I've got a
t-shirt. I'm alwaysthreatening everyone I'm going
to get a t-shirt. So my nextquestion is, do you read I'm
gonna say and hold my hand upthat I don't read as much as
what I used to do but I amgoing to start reading again
(07:05):
so I do hold my hands up andsay I'm not reading as much as
I should. Oh it's okay it'snot a prerequisite I'm just
nosy. Have you got a favouritebook maybe that you have read?
Yeah and I can't remember thename of the author but And
it's called Feel the Fear andDo It Anyway. And I started
(07:25):
reading that on the build upto me coming out here as well,
because, you know, there'salways going to be fear, fear
is never going to go away. Andthe beauty of that book is it
teaches you how to deal withyour fear. Mm hmm. And look
(07:46):
what you did. And I love it.If I've got something that I
need to do, and I'm terrifiedof doing it, the minute
afterwards, I will gosomewhere quiet and in my head
I'll be going, I did it, I didit, I did it. You know, the
achievement of doing somethingthat you're afraid of. I don't
think there's anything likeit, but maybe that book should
(08:08):
come with a warning. Feel thefear, you might find yourself
in Gran Canaria. Exactly. I'vegot that on my bookshelf. I
haven't read it, but I amgoing to read it. This
podcast, we've had so manywonderful suggestions, but I
love that. But yeah, I'm justamazed that it inspired you so
(08:29):
much to have done that page.But wow, amazing. You'll have
to dig it out again.Definitely. So on to you and
your business. So tell meabout your business and who or
what inspired you to startWell, I always knew at one
(08:50):
point I'd want to do somethinglike this, but I wasn't quite
sure. Just to fill everyonein. So when I did live in
England, I worked as asecretary. So, you know, bog
standard, run of the millwork. When I came here, I knew
that I was going to give thatup. And I also knew that I
(09:14):
would work front of housebecause I've got a gob, I'm
friendly, you know, and that'swhat tourists want. They don't
want a wallflower. They wantsomeone who's got personality.
So I did that. And it wasamazing. And then as we
already know, 2020 happened.And that was a very, look, it
(09:37):
was scary for everyone, we allknow that. But because these
islands survive off tourism,and they took the tourists
away for six months. So, youknow, if you take tourists
away from these islands,they've got nothing. That's
what they live off. It's theirbread and butter. And so it
(09:57):
was a very weird time when theislands reopened. And
obviously, not as manytourists were coming out, a
lot of people didn't want totravel. As we know, countries
were making it hard for themto travel. So it wasn't just
as easy as hopping on a flightand having a week or two weeks
in the sun, you had to jumpthrough a lot of hoops to get
(10:19):
on holiday. And the byproductof that was I started
promoting restaurants onsocial media. And I have seen
through the power of socialmedia, it's make or brave.
(10:41):
Social media will make orbreak you as a business. Now,
I'm not saying to be scared ofwhat customers can write,
because quite honestly, you'renever going to please the
public all the time in therestaurant game. So that's
just stupid to even try toeven do that. What I'm meaning
is, you know, a lot, somerestaurants out here even now
(11:06):
have the attitude our doorsare open, they will come,
especially when people havebeen coming here for years and
that's not the way anymore.You know, and you can liken
this to any industry. As weknow, the customer is king and
the way customers buy now isvery different, very
(11:28):
different. So even thoughtourists know these islands
very well, They're in theFacebook groups, they're
scrolling, they're looking forwhere they want to go. And so,
you know, whatever yourbusiness is, and you're
listening to this, I want tothrow that to you. How much
(11:48):
are you involving customers inwhat you do? People don't want
to be talked at, they want tofeel they're a part of it.
Now, okay, the restaurant gameand me being front of house,
obviously, I was frontline.Well, I want to liken it to
you. You may not be in therestaurant game, but you do
need to involve customers. Andso what happened was I started
(12:13):
being in Facebook groups. Istarted promoting for
restaurants online and I just,you could see how powerful
that was. And then I'm intouch with a lot of coaches.
I've been friends with a lotof coaches for a long time and
a client of mine who I'm stillworking with, She reached out
to me and she said, I'm goingto start running retreats
(12:38):
because she lives in theproperty. She's got a gorgeous
property in Dal Beattie,Scotland. And she said, I'm
going to host several retreatsa year and I want you to do
the PR for me. And that rightthere in that moment was like
someone just giving me mydream job. It was like the
(12:58):
stars aligned. I was just inheaven. I was in heaven. I
love it. I love it. Thatsounds absolutely amazing and
stars aligning as well andyou're right involving the
customers and just from my ownexperience because I like to
go to Lanzarote as an example.There's a big Facebook group
(13:21):
and people will mentionrestaurants on there and
they'll plan the trip beforethey go and lots of people
will comment and people mayalready have their plans
months before they even getthere. And people will
constantly share theirexperiences, but
interestingly, they'll sharetheir bad ones. It may be
biased, it may be wrong forwhatever reason, but they will
(13:45):
put it and people willcomment. But the power of that
now in that moment is, you'reright, absolutely
unbelievable. And thecompetition. on those holiday
destinations. It's not like itwas before where you could
stand outside, hand out aleaflet with a two-for-one or
whatever. Our customers arevery well educated before
(14:06):
they've even got off the planeand it's an experience. When I
brought it online, I wastreating people in the
Facebook groups exactly theway I would if they were face
to face with me. My deliveryhas never been over the top. I
don't do gimmicks. I'm a veryrelaxed way, style and
(14:32):
delivery. And most PRs willjump straight in and say, hey,
here's the table, sit down,come on in, come on in. And to
me, I hate it. You know, it'slike listening to the circus,
come on up, come on up, thecircus is in town, like,
that's not how I operate. So Iwould always catch people
unawares. Because obviously,as you say, competitions
(14:53):
first, so they've spoken toloads of PRs. And the way I
would do it is say, hey, howwas your day today? Were you
at the pool? Were you at thebeach? Or did you go on a
trip? And they were so... Theycouldn't believe that I wanted
to know how their day was.They were like, why are you
not telling us to go in yourrestaurant? And I go, because
you're either going to go inor not. But you're on holiday.
(15:15):
You've had an amazing day.What did you do? And that
would just be the icebreaker.Straight away, they don't feel
threatened. Now, sometimes itcould be, well, you know what,
we're not going to go intonight, but we'll remember
you because we really like theway you spoke to us. Or it
could be that they'd be like,do you know what? We really
like how you're doing this.Where's your menu? We'll take
(15:36):
a look. Now here's the thing.Doing that kind of job, you
can make or break a restaurantin your delivery. You can have
the best menu in town, thebest decor, the service can be
fantastic. But if your PR isannoying people, Game over. So
(16:00):
that's what I teach my clientsin how is your delivery and
how are you marketing yourbusiness. And it's building
that relationship and gettingthem to share that narrative
about their holiday. Oh, wedid this or we that. And it's
just, I'm always saying, it'sjust having a conversation,
getting to know people.Because the humans... And I
(16:23):
used to joke with them becausesometimes, you know, they'd
be, they'd feel reallyapologetic because obviously
I've asked how their day wasand if they're not coming in,
they'd be like, Oh, we feelreally bad now, but we've
reserved a table and I'd say,don't be silly, like you're on
holiday. Even if you nevercome in, it's your holiday,
you do what you want to do.But then I would crack a joke
with some people and I go,don't worry, you're my next
(16:43):
challenge. I'll get you.You're here for at least
another seven or ten days ormaybe fourteen. I will get
you. And just come back, yeah.The devil comes after me. It's
how you are with people and,you know, as business owners,
you're so fixated on makingthe sale and that energy can
(17:04):
come across. But here's thething, just because someone
doesn't buy there and then,does not mean they're not
going to buy later. Yeah.Example I can give you right
now is I've got two potentialclients circling around me and
I spoke to both of them a yearago. One has just confirmed
(17:25):
she's going to work with methis afternoon and the other
one where she's waiting on afew other things and that's
looking like that's going tohappen. So what I want to say
for those of you who arerunning an online business and
maybe you're so in your headand you're like, oh my God, I
need to make sales. Take thatpressure off. Literally take
(17:45):
off and just be nice withpeople, talk with people,
communicate with people, be ofservice and just because
someone says no doesn't meanit will always be no. Yeah and
it possibly is not yet. That'sone of the things I always
have, not yet. And for me, Ialways try, I always say, I
(18:07):
want to have moreconversations today rather
than, oh, I'm going to dothis, I'm going to do that.
And you, if you don't connectwell with someone, you know,
they're not, you know, if youknow, they're not going to be
right for you, they're notgoing to make a client, you
know, that I would rather say,oh, you know, we're not a good
fit or whatever. And that's,you're only going to work that
out with a good conversation.And, If you don't sort of do
(18:30):
something up front it's notgoing to work out further down
the line but for me the keyfor everything is good
communication, goodconversations and you're right
people just because you thinkoh it has to be done today
they could come out you knowsix months, 12 months down the
line but you've already builtup that relationship, built up
that that foundation andthings Everything's a slow
(18:50):
burner, nothing, unless you'reselling widgets and you're,
you know, it just doesn't workthat way in our world, I don't
think. So with all that inmind, then what would you say
has been your biggestchallenge in your in your
adventure and your business?Hmm, biggest challenge. Hmm.
(19:13):
It's funny, you know, like,I've got a client now who I'm
working with, And we've workedtogether on and off for three
years. And look, she knew PRbefore she even hired me. So
she taught me a lot. Andthe thing is, when I sit down
(19:34):
with her and me and her talkabout PR, we go really deep in
the conversation, because wejust know it. And so we just
get it. When I was doing thebook collaboration when she
launched her book in October,there was a group of 30 women
and they'd never done PRbefore. So the conversations
(19:56):
that I would have with themwere totally different than
what I would have with her.And so there was more
explaining involved. And sothe challenge in that, I would
say, is obviously that's 30women. That's a lot of people
to PR for. And alsohelping them learn the
(20:20):
difference between marketingand PR and why you're doing
things a certain way and howyou're supposed to do it and
when you're supposed to do it.And so that I would say was my
hardest challenge. But that'sonly because they didn't know
it and anyone who's not doneit before, it's a whole new
(20:41):
way of doing things. And 30people is a lot of people to
have to, right. This is why wedo that. Yeah, that is huge.
Absolutely huge. Well, if youhad to give yourself a piece
of advice in that case, we'lluse your baseline as when you
went out to Grand Canary. Ifyou had to give yourself one
(21:02):
piece of advice, what would itbe for your business?
I was thinking, oh, what do Igo with? What do I go with?
And then it was like, duh, theobvious. And it's what I tell
my clients all the time,because sometimes they'll come
(21:25):
to me and they'll be like, oh,what should I do and how
should I do it? And they'lltie themselves up in knots.
And I always tell them this.And this is my biggest advice
for myself. Just be yourself.Now we hear that phrase all
the time, but with PR, PR isliterally you on steroids
(21:45):
because now you're not justappearing on social media and
then sending an email to youremail list. You're going to be
everywhere and you're going tobe on bigger platforms. More
people are going to know aboutyou. And, you know, I
predominantly work with womenand as women we can get two in
(22:05):
our own heads. And sometimesI'll get PR for a client And
they'll want to ask mequestions and I get it because
they're nervous and they don'twant to sell themselves short
in an interview, I get it. ButI also can tell when it's real
fear. And when they're askingme loads and loads of
(22:27):
questions on how should I dothis and how should I do that.
And I'll listen to what theysay, and I take it on board
and I advise them and I showthem, you know, how to go
about it. And then what I sayto them is, when you do that
interview, don't race throughit. Pause when you need to get
(22:50):
a clear mind. And if you'reasked a question, you're like,
Oh, what do I say? All you cando is be you don't try and
come up with a clever answer.Don't try and be something
you're not. Don't be thinking,oh, I'm in this industry so I
should answer it this way. Thebeauty of PR is being yourself
(23:11):
and that's how you get clientsbecause you're being real,
you're being relatable andyou're speaking your own voice
and your own life experienceand nobody can do that for
you. I think people sellthemselves short and when it
comes to PR and their personalbrand, And that's something
I'm always banging on about,be yourself, because your
(23:32):
personality is really the onlything you own. It's you. And
the minute you try to maskthat, you can't sustain it.
And that's when you get thefakery, when you're Not
showing up as your authenticself and that word's overused
but I don't think it's usedenough in some contexts
because people buy from peopleand there's a bit of a cliche
(23:53):
as well but they do like yousaid about the restaurant
they'll come back because thatlady was really nice oh she
was funny oh she said this shesaid that But putting that
memory in that person's mind,if you can get that across,
that part of your personality,you've won half the battle.
But when you're on the otherside and you're trying to prep
(24:14):
someone for that, it worriesme that so many people are
uncomfortable beingthemselves. And I spend a lot
of time trying to draw outWe're
really, really good at biggingup other people, but not
(24:34):
ourselves. And you'll runaround saying, oh, she's
great. She does this and she'sgreat. She does that. I would
get that person to say, tellme three things that you're
really good at. And peoplereally struggle. Do you know
what I mean? It bothers methat as an individual, it's
really hard to get thatperson. I want to add on to
(24:56):
what you're saying therebecause I 100% agree with you.
And there's two reasons why Ipersonally feel that goes on.
Number one, women are made tofeel like you shouldn't brag,
you shouldn't talk aboutyourself, you should be miss
humble, all of this stuff,right? And so women worry, you
(25:20):
know, we've all heard, youknow, we all know that phrase
as women, who does she thinkshe is, right? And so women so
afraid to just slightly shine.I'm not meaning mega shine,
I'm meaning slightly shine.They're worried about the
comeback. Will people laugh atthat? Will people mock that?
And so that goes on in theirheads. And then number two, if
(25:44):
you have worked in corporate,you're told to fit in a box.
And even though your skill setcan be outside of the box,
they don't want you doinganything outside of the box.
They want you to just sit inthat box and do what's asked.
And I think this is wherepeople, when they start to run
(26:04):
a business, worry becausethey're like, oh, people are
going to think I'm big headedor that I'm in love with
myself. There's a fine linebetween running around like a
peacock, you know, reign it ina bit when you have to, don't
get too carried away. Butlook, if you don't believe in
yourself, why should acustomer? Exactly. And that
(26:25):
comes across and there'sanother level that you've got
to reach. And one of my thingsI said, the only way to be
comfortable in the spotlightis to believe you belong
there. So I do a lot ofpre-work to get people
confident You've got to doyour power pose and sit and in
your mind think I belong herethis is where I should be and
(26:48):
it takes a bit of mindset nota huge amount but it's just
getting that person from thatA to B and one of the things
you know journaling andevidence building and working
out all the things that you'vecategorically done so your
brain can't lie to you and sayoh you're a fraud But just
getting that person up thatnext notch to go, well,
(27:09):
actually, you know what? I amreally good at this. I'm good
at X, Y and Z. And I thinkmore people need to do it, but
more people need to see morepeople doing it with
confidence and saying, I'mactually really good at this
because of blah, blah, blah,blah, blah. But I think maybe
there's a little shift as wellbecause I've noticed it in
(27:30):
younger people. They seem tobe a bit more brave about
jumping out there and going,you know what, I am this. But
then if you think about it,the younger generation now,
they're growing up with amindset like, I don't need to
come. out for me until I wasin my last year of senior
(27:52):
school. So we didn't know theinternet, we didn't know being
online, we didn't know doingfunny videos, like we just
didn't know it. And so I cansee why they have more
confidence. Because it's theirlife. Yeah. And they're almost
born with the phone. And oneof the things that I noticed,
particularly in my childrenwhen they were younger, people
(28:12):
my age, we had to be educatedinto sitting in front of a
camera and record ourselves.Whereas these younger people,
they're walking down thestreet and they're filming
themselves walking past,whatever, because it's just a
natural thing to talk intocamera, which I think is
amazing that they just seem tohave this inbuilt ability. But
it's not everywhere, but Thatgenerational shift is just so,
(28:37):
so interesting. But I love itwhen I see someone just sat
there unscripted. I don't liketo do scripts because the
minute I start to do scripts,it looks like I'm reading the
news. So if I'm doingsomething on camera, because I
actually was media trainedvery formally. And so when I
(28:57):
was taught, I've been sayingthis on loads of things, but
you're taught to analyse yourown sort of micro whatever. So
when I was doing my meeting, Iused to do this. So I had to
really train myself to talklike this very, very still.
But it looks like I'm readingthe news. But that doesn't
work on social media. You needto be a little bit more
(29:19):
engaging and you need to useyour hands and you know, you
need to have a personality toshow. So I've had to unlearn
those skills, you know, that Istill would need in corporate,
but on social media, it'scompletely different. But it's
just really interesting tosort of unpick all those
things. You cannot sustainfakeness. I just don't think
(29:43):
you can. The truth will comeout. So if you are presenting
to the world this image of whoyou are, Your mask will slip,
especially if you're a coachor you're a service provider
and you're working one-on-one,even if you're working in a
(30:04):
group, eventually you'll slip.So if you're trying, look, I
don't want to get into thisbecause people have their own
opinion and this is not whyI'm saying it, but you hear a
lot of people where peoplewill say things like, oh, do
you think it's good that Iswear when I'm doing my
marketing, I'm never going tosay yes or no to someone
because that's the personalchoice. What I will say is, If
(30:27):
swearing is what you do, ifyou're trying to look like
Snow White online and then youget on a Zoom call and you're
dropping F bombs here, thereand everywhere and just saying
all kinds of things, thenyou've mis-sold yourself to a
customer. And if someonereally hates swearing, they're
(30:48):
going to be put right off. Andwhat I don't like is when
people just swear every otherword, you know, it's like, But
you know, what I want to sayis, and I say this a lot, when
you see me online, I amexactly the same as if you met
me in the real world. Andthat's what I say to people,
(31:10):
if this is how you show up, dothat. Because if you're trying
to pretend to be somethingelse, it won't work. Yeah that
is so true and you should bethat same person because
people should know whatthey're getting with you and
if you all of a sudden changegear and you're you're this
other persona you're going tofeel a little bit shortchanged
(31:31):
aren't you regardless of whatthat looks like and yeah yeah
and I think you're right yeahit's like walking the walk
isn't it you've just got toWhat you see is what you get
and that's just it. Now it'sso interesting I could go on
and on about that for ages. SoI know the answer to this
question but I don't want tojudge. So how comfortable are
you showing up online for youraudience? I am
(31:57):
so comfortable. I mean, don'tget me wrong. I've never been
a fan of going live onFacebook. You know, I'm not a
fan of it. I do it. I'm justnot a fan of it. I still have
to get myself to do it. Buthere's the thing. Whatever you
say, whether I write anarticle, write a social media
post, write an email, write ablog, go live with someone, do
(32:19):
a podcast interview, go ondigital TV, whatever it is,
it's me. It's me. And soI just want to say to anyone
listening to this podcast, ifyou're second guessing
yourself, right? I'll give youan example. When I'm scrolling
(32:44):
through my feed, I can comeacross a complete and utter
stranger. Don't know them.Don't even know what they do.
But I can read the words or Ican watch the video and I will
know whether they're reallyfeeling that because a lot of
(33:04):
people just put any old stuffup to keep the algorithm happy
and I can feel it. I can feelit the way they talk or like
if the video's got no kind oflike oomph to it, I'm like,
yeah, you're just doing thisbecause you need to. So what I
say to my clients is, becauseI want my talk, Stop worrying
(33:26):
about everybody else becauseit's so easy in the online
space. Now, don't get mewrong. Of course, it's good to
see what the competition aredoing and that's healthy. What
isn't healthy is when, youknow, we see it a lot. You can
see people who sometimes I'llsee a post somewhere And then
a few moments later, I'll seethe post somewhere else again
(33:47):
and I know it's been copied. Iknow it's been copied. And I'm
like, why are you doing this?Those are not your words.
You've just seen something,thought it was great or you've
seen maybe it's worked forthat person. So now you're
going to copy that. Numberone, it's wrong. You mean
copied from someone else'scontent? Is that what you
mean? Not repurposed fromtheir own content? Yeah.
(34:11):
People, I mean, I see ithappen a lot and I, you know,
you'll get a lot of coacheswho'll come online and say,
I'm really angry because... Idid see that yesterday. You
know, someone had, someone hadliterally copied a coach's
stuff and hadn't even takenthe name out. And I was just
like, yeah, people actually dothat. Oh, yeah. It's
(34:32):
plagiarism. If you're inuniversity, what can you do
with the online space? Youknow, there's, there's not a
lot you can do. What I wouldsay to someone, you know, if
someone's listening to thisnow, and if it's happened to
you, or it does happen to you,always know this. They're
(34:53):
probably threatened by you.They see something in you they
wish they had themselves. Solook, it isn't nice. Of
course, it's not nice. No onewants that to happen. But what
I will say is they are notgoing to know their next move
till they work out what yoursis. So they're constantly
trying to think, what's shegoing to do next? And this is
(35:14):
why I say to my clients, stopworrying about everyone else.
When you talk the way youtalk, Walk the way you walk
and just do you all of asudden which you're gonna do
if you're gonna do PR becauseyou're being you. All of a
sudden the competition doesn'tmatter anymore because they
(35:35):
can't be you and you can't bethem. And so you're not
competing with anyone now,you're just showing up and
being yourself. I think itkind of takes the pressure off
because one of the things Ilike to do is if I'm not
feeling it, because I'verecorded videos and I've been
like, nah, I'm only doing thatbecause I have to. So I'll sit
down with a blank piece ofpaper and I'll think, right,
(35:56):
what does my ideal client looklike? Who is she? And I'll
have this image of thisperson. And I'll just think,
what am I feeling? What do Iwant to do? And then I can
come up with one of my postsand it's, how can I explain
it? It's genuine. I know it'scome from the heart. And when
I'm doing podcasts or when I'mon videos, I'm not good doing
it on my own. I am a a chattyperson. I love chatting to
(36:20):
other people. I'm not good attalking to myself. So when I
have to do, you know, piecesby myself, that's where I
struggle the most because Ilike to bounce off. I'm like,
yeah, yeah, you know, but whenit comes to content, I like to
have a process and I have toshield away everybody else
(36:40):
because I don't like to beinfluenced by what I see. I
like it to be mine. And I liketo think, what do I want to
say today? What, what, what doI want to send out into the
universe? And because you canbe so easily influenced. And
I've had a few things thathave been, that have been
repurposed elsewhere, youknow, and I just, I don't, I
don't like it, but I try tohave some things come out of,
(37:03):
you know, that are mine, thatare a hundred percent mine,
because that to me is theworst thing you can do to
anybody is to take your ownAnd the audacity of some
people when they don't evenhave to take the name out.
That was one yesterday and Icouldn't believe it. But yeah,
thank you people if youlisted. There's something else
(37:24):
I want to say that fits inwith what we're discussing. So
sometimes I'll hop on a callwith a client and I get it,
they're about to do aninterview and they'll be like,
oh, do you think I should saythis? Do you think I should
say that? And they're wantingadvice, which is only normal.
But then what I always say tothem is this. What do you want
(37:47):
to say? Because thisultimately is you talking your
truth. And if you feel thatyour truth may rock the boat,
so be it. Because at the endof the day, your head can hit
the pillow at the end of thenight going, I spoke my truth.
People don't jive with yourtruth. That's okay. Don't feel
(38:11):
like you have to show up acertain way, act a certain
way, say certain things.Because when you try and do
that, you're going to becomelike a puppet on a string. So
when they get a little bit tooin their head, and I know a
lot of the times it's a veryimportant interview and they
don't want to let themselvesdown. What I always say to
them is, Just talk your truthbecause I can't do that for
(38:37):
you. No one else can do it foryou. And you know what? If
certain people don't like whatyou said, that's okay. Because
we can't be liked by everyone.But you know what? By you
being brave enough to speakyour truth, someone could see
that interview and go, wow,I'm going for that right now.
(38:59):
And all of a sudden they don'tfeel alone. And so, yes, it
can feel scary sometimes,like, should I say this? How
will it get received? But youknow what? There comes a point
where you just have to go forYou do and you're not in the
business of pleasing everyoneand if you are polarising with
(39:22):
your views, and I don't meanbe controversial for
controversial sake, if youspeak your truth and there's
people that don't like it,that means that there are
people that do like it andthey're the ones that matter,
they're the ones that you wantto do business with. And you
want to isolate those peoplebecause they're the ones that
resonate with your values andyour brand. And the people
(39:43):
that don't, that's fine, theycan go in their merry way. But
you're not going to reachanybody if it's just, you
know, plain, plain, plain,plain, because no one's going
to resonate with you. You'renot saying the right things,
they're not connecting withyou. And that's okay too, but
it always amuses me wheneverpeople ask people like us,
what should I say? You're justlike, what are you asking me
for? Because that's nevergoing to work either. And you
(40:07):
know, you're not going to giveso much material back to
scripts again, because it hasto come from you because it is
unsustainable if it doesn'tcome from you. And people are
a little bit afraid to drop ina little bit of a, well, I
think this and you know what,it's okay to have an opinion.
It's okay to speak your owntruth, like you say. And You
know what's interesting? Samewith what I said to you at the
(40:30):
beginning about dreams don'tneed to be explained, they
just need to be lived.Early on in my journey with
(40:54):
this, I felt I needed toexplain to people online why I
felt the way I felt, why Isaid the things I said. And
now I can actually see acomment on my... I don't get
many. But if I was to get acomment that really is just
trying to stir somecontroversy, I don't even
(41:18):
respond to it. I'm like,They're allowed to feel what
they want to feel. I'm allowedto feel what I want to feel.
They may want to start a wholesaga of trouble over there but
I don't want to. I've saidwhat I've said. And if you
like it, you like it. If youdon't, you don't. Like, just
we're adults. Let's get onwith our day. And isn't that
(41:41):
so freeing? That's soliberating to not feel that
responsibility. But I have tomake them understand that, you
know, this is my opinion. AndI think there's a period in
your life where you feelcompelled to go back. But no,
you're right. You know, justdon't roll on. No, I'm just
like, come on. I can't even bebothered giving it energy
(42:05):
because there's a way ofapproaching something. Like I
could see someone's post, I'veread what they've said and
saying, oh, I don't agree withthat. Now, how I come onto
that post, they're going toknow whether I'm questioning
in an amicable way or I'mstirring it. And if someone's
(42:26):
stirring it, I'm not going toget into that because I've got
better things to do. No but bythe same token if you're
having a good conversationwith someone and I love it
when someone in a healthy waychallenges your ideas or you
have a discussion and I loveit when someone helps me to
see another point of view youknow and I just love getting
(42:46):
that you know that and I'llyou know you're right you know
you haven't considered anotherway that's that's something
else. Creative speech.Sometimes people will put a
comment on a post and youknow, they want trouble. Oh,
yeah. I'm not going there.Yeah. Well, yeah, I agree. I'm
all for a healthy debate. I'mall for someone, you know,
(43:06):
sometimes someone can saysomething like, Oh, my God, I
never even thought that. Yeah,that's great. That's an
amicable, adult conversationwhere two people disagree, but
they're still being civilabout it. It's when people Say
nasty comments for nasty sakeor they're trying to get a
reaction from you. I'm like,nah, I'm not going there
(43:28):
because it's only going tomake a hobby out of it. You
know, when you see some randomthings, like you said, I think
some people do. It is actuallya hobby for a hobby for them.
Brings to almost the end ofthis. I have loved it all. So
tell me, where can we find outabout you online? Okay, so my
(43:50):
website isYouAreYourMarketing.com. I
will put these links in theshow notes, by the way.
Perfect. You can also find meon Instagram with the same
name, YouAreYourMarketing. Andyou can find me on Facebook.
With the name MelanieWhittaker, which is spelt
(44:11):
W-H-I-T-T-A-K-E-R and the samename Melanie Whittaker on
LinkedIn. Wonderful. Oh, thankyou so much for coming on my
podcast. It's been so muchfun. We could.
It's been absolutely fabulous.Thank you so much and lovely
(44:34):
to have you. Thank you somuch. I've enjoyed it. Thank
you for listening today andspecial thanks to my fantastic
guest Melanie Whittaker forsharing her incredible story
with us. If you want toincrease your visibility as
well as your sales with yourpersonal brand strategy, don't
miss out on my free resourcesor you can join the Personal
Branding Academy membership.You'll find all the relevant
(44:56):
links in the podcast notes aswell as the links that Melanie
mentioned in the podcast. Andif you liked the episode,
please leave a review andshare it with your friends.
Join me on the next episodefor more incredible bravery
behind the brand stories. Youcan follow me on Instagram at
coachamandajane or visit mywebsite amandajane.co.uk. Bye
for now!
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