The Trickster, Folklore & the Supernatural: Joshua Kutchin Explores Paranormal Realms

In this conversation, Joshua Kutchin discusses his journey into the realms of the paranormal, exploring themes of UFOs, Bigfoot, and ghosts. He shares personal experiences and insights into the interconnectedness of folklore, technology, and spirituality. Kutchin emphasizes the importance of examining the symbolism behind paranormal phenomena and the role of the trickster archetype in shaping our understanding of these experiences. He also touches on the significance of food and music in the context of the supernatural, ultimately advocating for a more nuanced approach to exploring these mysteries.

www.joshuacutchin.com



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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Year Joe, straight from the broadcast studio, and then the stating,
this ain't no tread sound story. Soenter's prophetic encrypt the
signals from the saddles of the garden. We did where
the trok got secret snow parted microphone alchemists scriptures with
a twist peak the frequency seeds in the midst we
drop false like plagues revelations in the cadus, broadcasting truth

(00:24):
while they trapped in surveillans wrisdom with a watchman's blade,
forth what sound while your whole system faide blood moves
that for love echoes in the pond sas quart soften
through the fault lines of time. We ain't mainstream, We
ain't just streamed safer with the prophets to code the dreams.
So with you tune in better gods your mind's broadcasting seeds.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
And were breaking the.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Design of design.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah yeah, yo yo, Straight from.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
The broadcast studio, Gosha cut you in. Tell us who
you are, what you do, and where we can find you.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Be happy to This is sort of the airplane question, right,
Like you know, you're locked in the airplane and people
are like, what do you do?

Speaker 3 (01:09):
And You're like oh, you're a single serving friend.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
The question yea, how far do I want to take
them underwater? How quickly? You know? Yeah? Author of speculative
nonfiction is the polite way to say it. The less
polite ways that I write books about UFOs and Bigfoot
and ghosts. Those are the three things that I see
seem to keep on coming back to that in Fairies.
I guess been doing this for ten years now publicly,

(01:32):
and a lot of my work focuses on the sort
of interplay between folklore more and more often religion and
the paranormal, and looking at how a lot of the
things that we think are sort of novel iterations of
the paranormal, like extraterrestrial visitors, are actually just things that
we've had since the beginning of time. I live in Marietta, Georgia.
I am currently remote, as people who have seen my

(01:54):
other podcasts might might be like, where is Josh. I'm
currently remote in my home state of North Carolina right now,
but I live in Marieta at Georgia, And I also
play tuba, which makes up about a quarter to a
third of my income. So jazz tuba is where it's at.
So all those things together starts to look a little
bit like a living wage for a family, And uh yeah,
I'm just really happy to be here. If you want

(02:15):
to find out more about me, Joshua Cutchin dot com
that's j O S h U A c U T
c h I N dot com links to all my work.
There's an ill maintained blog, but certainly an event notices
and an announcement show up there, and also a list
of all the interviews that I've done, which apparently was
a rabbit hole that you fought of you fell down,
So God bless you for for chasing that white rabbit.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
Awesome author of how many books? It's Tim, No, it's weird.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
It's weird to count because some of them I never
intended to split, you know, like where the footprints and
Tim and I never intended to split. I want to
split Eclogy of Souls so and then Ecology of Souls
has like a third volume that's an appendix and bibiography collection.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
So is that really.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
About so tinish where it winds up? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (03:01):
Gotcha either way, folks, each is a rabbit hole on
onto itself. I mean, there is obviously in this world
of highest strangeness that we live in there's there's always
blending and things rhyme. Right, Yes, it's a good way
to put it. So with that being said, what got
you into this world of high strangeness? Like, what was

(03:23):
your gateway to it?

Speaker 2 (03:26):
I think, I think, you know, I'm always so disappointed
in myself. Oh I get this question right, because I
know so many people who were like I saw Ufo
when I was seven, or you know, right, I grew up,
I grew up on my family's property had Bigfoot, or
I grew up in a haunted house. And for me,
it was just growing up in a household that didn't
discourage these things. You know, I think really what lies
at the root of it is that I was a

(03:47):
creature kid. You know, Ray, Harry Howsen, and Stan Winston
were household names for me growing up. So I was
a creature kid. I love creature features. My dad had
a passing interest in Bigfoot. I found out years later
he was subscribed to the bfr Own letter, apparently when
it was still a paper newsletter that went out for
a while. So, you know, so I would check out
books on these different topics as a kid, and my

(04:08):
parents would not you know, even though I grew up
in a Christian household, were not discouraging of an interest
in ghosts or Bigfoot or anything like that. And so
I would check out these books, and I would read
these books, and on occasion I would, you know, grab
one from the bookstore and have, you know, as my own.
There is still a copy that I have at my
place in my library at home of Jerome Clark's The Unexplained, which,

(04:29):
if you're unfamiliar with it, it's a wonderful sort of
compilation of yeah, just strangeness and also, in hindsight, such
a good primer for a kid in middle school is
really into these topics. So I still have that copy
that my mom is prepared with packing tape. So that
was sort of the origins of it is I was
sort of always there in the background. And then circa
twenty twelve, I was commuting an hour in and an

(04:53):
hour back from work for a job at the University
of Georgia, and I started really listening to paranormal podcasts
and really rekindling that interested mine and started noticing some things,
some trends that I was like, Oh, somebody should write
a book about that. And I sort of sat with
that for a while, and like, is that me and
I never in a million years and would have guessed
that my first book, A Trojan Feast, would be as

(05:13):
well received as it was. You know, it's funny I
just mentioned growing up with Jerome Clark's book and the
fact that you know, Jerry would end up reviewing some
of my work in a favorable light is just one
of the most surreal things that has ever happened to me.
You know. It kind of feels like a kid playing
basketball in the streets growing up and playing alongside Lebron
or something, or at least getting edge by Lebron. Yeah,

(05:35):
so it really does sort of have that sort of
weird headspace. The relationships that I've formed, you know, over
the years, it's just nothing I ever would have imagined,
you know. So it's been I'm incredibly grateful for the
journey that I've been on.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
So have you had any like personal experiences paranormal you know,
the whole game?

Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah? No, I mean, you know, I've noticed this, and
I'm interested to see if you've noticed it too, because
I've sort of noticed this as a trend, Like there's
the immediacy of the event and then it has sort
of has a half life, and like the farther away
you get from it, the more you're like, well, did
that really? Was that? Really that weird? Like it could
have been this, and it could have been that, and
like you sort of talk yourself out of it, and
I started, I finally like put together a word document

(06:17):
of like all the strange things of varating degrees that
happened to me, just so I could remember them. So, yeah,
my appearents added onto their house I would say probably
maybe around nineteen ninety or so. And during that entire
construction process, we would my mom and I especially would
find stacks of four quarters in like random places, by
which I mean like a classic example that I use

(06:38):
is this big, like this big thick dictionary like can
remember the actual like big thick dictionaries, pulled it off
the wall and behind it as a stack of four quarters,
you know, and then a little while later we'd find
it like on top of the fridge or like behind
a cup that we hadn't used in years in one
of the cupboards, and it was just really odd, and
like you know, at the time, we were just like, well,

(06:58):
that's kind of strange. I wonder, you know what's up
with that. But you know, looking back with a fourteen's
eye all these years later, it's like, oh, that's kind
of poltergeist fery sort of activity in a way. And
you know the fact that the house was being being
updated is put some sort of elemental state. So that
I've had some interesting ghost encounters. Probably saw a full

(07:21):
bodied apparition of a Civil War soldier, young young boy,
and had a door slammed open in my face at
Waverly Hills Sanitarium. Some some bigfoot adjacent activity is the
way that I would describe at footsteps. A rock that
was moved behind my car on my honeymoon in North Georgia,

(07:43):
which didn't really after I was whooping and hollering like
an idiot and didn't really seem to come in from anywhere.
There's basketball sized rock behind one of my tires, the
latest thing to have happened to me. So I've been
doing a lot more field work over the past two years,
and I've had some you know, going these investigations to
gone ghost hunting, and it's like most of it's like
staring at the dry wall for two or three hours.

(08:04):
But I've had a couple of interesting things happen here
and there, some light phenomenon. I would have to say,
the most interesting thing that's happened to me lately was
I was doing an outing last mayze as May of
twenty twenty four in North Georgia at a big Foot
hot spot and I was sitting around the campfire with
several others And to clarify where we are, we're about
fifteen minutes over private land that we had permission to

(08:28):
access into the back of a national forest down here,
so nobody anywhere around, no public roads and all. And
we're sitting around the campfire with our cars on either side.
Everybody's accounted for in my field of view, and we
hear a car door slam. And what's interesting about that
to me is that because I looked at the person
one of the other people across the campfire and I said,

(08:48):
did you hear And they said a car door slam? Yeah,
I absolutely did. And nobody else really seemed to grasp
the importance of that, because I feel like it was
kind of for me because it's a really obscure thing, right, like, yeah,
it's just to keep me so I keep going. I'm
gonna wal it's a John Keel observation. You know, car
door slams and baby cries are things that he associated
with quote unquote monster accounts. And it's also like a

(09:10):
Ron Moorhead association because I think that they noticed that
at this year Insight too. So it's like it felt
like it was made for me, you know, and so
like I don't feel like anybody else quite grasped the
magnitude of that. And I'm not saying that in terms
of like bragging about it. I'm saying that in terms of, like, oh,
I feel like that was just for Josh, you know.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's so bizarre because I was just
so I'm you know, I'm constantly working on episodes, and
one of the upcoming episodes was Whistling in the Woods,
right or so, so it kind of morphed into strange
sounds in the woods, but whistling was one of them,
but one of them that happened fairly consistently. Isn't just

(09:48):
like doors, it's car doors.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, And it's well, here's so this is the way
my brain works, right, Like I think about like, so
car doors and like babies crying, well, baby's crying. I
think is pretty obvious and pretty creepy, right, yes, right,
even if you don't like children, there's a part of
your brain that is evolutionary wired, evolutionarily wired to respond. Yeah. Yeah,

(10:12):
so car doors that occurred to me, like, what does
that mean in my life? That's an attention grabber, right,
Or it's an announcement. It says high, I'm here, or
high or goodbye, I'm leaving, you know, so I think
that you know, if we I don't know what to
make of it, right, I don't know, if I don't
know if there's a I don't know if there's a
big monkey out in the woods imitating car doors, or

(10:32):
if it's some sort of parapsychological thing. I can only
say that what that sound is a symbol of in
my life is I've arrived or goodbye, I'm leaving. And
I think that that might be why we see such
an out of place sound like that in the woods sometimes.
And that's that's actually a pretty good snapshot in the
way that I look at these things, which is like,
I don't know what is happening, but let's just take
this on face value. Look at the symbolism, look at

(10:55):
the archetypes, look at the thoughts behind us, the psychological
angle basically, look at it through every angle except the
literal angle, right, and then see if we can't extract
some sort of meaning from that. So, like again the
fact that that was the sound that I got that
little weird, little weird Josh got in the woods on
his big foot outing. You know, he didn't get wood

(11:17):
Knox and he didn't get a hooter a hewl. He
got the like the most John keelish kind of sound
that felt really that feels really special to me. So
I did get that last year. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
The the other sound that I've heard, and I'm gonna
this is going to actually move into a question for
you because we've I've heard you talk about stuff like
this on other shows, is because there's an evolution in
these sounds out in the woods. It's like a mimicry
type of thing.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
Right. One of the.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
Newer ones is we bring up car doors slamming and
how that's hey, I've arrived, right, that kind of thing.
But there's also the beeping of cars, like when when
you set alarms? Yeah, when when when the fobs? Yeah yeah, yeah,
when you lock your doors and you hear that beet
beep or that beep or you know whatever, but that

(12:07):
is a sound that is also being heard in the
middle of nowhere. So with that, it's like I've heard
you talk about the evolution of like what UFOs or
UAPs look like. So it's like, you know, throughout the
the the age is like we had the triangles in
the eighties and these, and now we've got more of
like we got drones now, like it's and drones and

(12:31):
stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Right the end of twenty twenty four I think cemented
the conflation between drones and UFOs and in our minds
and monster drones like Big One. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
And it's the sort of thing like as you're alluding to,
like we had signs and wonders in the sky in
ancient times and then steampunk airships and then the flying saucers.
It's the fire yeah and so like, and so when

(12:52):
the when the when the drones. When the tic TAC
video came out, I was like, Okay, well we're gonna
start conflating drones and people are like, no, I'm not
really seeing a lot of sightings, and I said, you
just wait, and you know, I wish I'd been more
public about that because I can tell everybody I look
like yeah, but and so like, you know, with the
twenty twenty four December drone flap that happened, especially over
the Northeast, you know, I had a lot of friends

(13:14):
being like, but you don't understand, Josh, the're terrestrial drones.
And I'm like, that's not what I'm Again, this is
not the layer that I'm engaging with, right, I'm not
engaging with that literal sort of layer. I'm saying that
the idea of drone and the idea of UFO has
shaken hands and the collection unconscious. Yeah, and I think
we're just gonna get more of that.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yeah, I would absolutely agree, And considering just the amount
of money, let's call it money and effort going in
to expand that space. I mean, it's not just semiconductors,
it's everything that semiconductors are in, right, It's just expanding
like crazy, and I feel like there's some entities that

(13:53):
might latch onto that and go full force.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Right, Yeah, I mean that's that's I was. I was
driving back from a gig intend to see back in
February with one of my friends and one of my
band members, and we were talking about stuff, and I
think chiropractic came up, you know, the chiropractic discipline, and
I told him, I said, Reggie, I said, there's everything
has an occult angle, like everything. I think everything has
an occult side. Like I think that you could probably

(14:17):
find an occult side to everything. And it only gets
weirder when you start dealing with like technologies of all sorts.
You know, over the years, there's always like some somebody
channeled something or somebody had something revealed to dream or
like there's always always this occult side. So yeah, I
mean it makes it's not very surprising to me that
you see that sort of sphere of of development sort

(14:41):
of really plugged into this at this point in the timeline.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
It's almost like a corruption is a very hyperbolic word,
but it's a you know, I guess you could say
it's a corruption of it. It's just the flip side
of what if something's good, There's gonna always be a
flip side, right, That's the yin and yang, And well, yeah,
I'm gonna.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Every I don't want to be a luddite, but I
definitely am a late definitely I am a late adopter,
like I got my first smartphone in twenty twenty two.
Like I'm a late adopter for everything, because since twenty
twenty two, I have become a smartphone zombie. And that's
what I was trying to avoid. But you look, you
look at the sort of garden path that we're being
led down with a lot of this stuff, you know,

(15:21):
I mean artificial intelligence to the large language models. They
have a lot of utility and a lot of important utility,
and I think they're going to be great for like
medical diagnostics. And you know, sometimes it's even nice to
like write your own summary of something and plug in
the original text and be like, is this an accurate summary?
Did I leave out that should be? You know, things
like that that are nice to have a voice to
bounce things off of. But like people who are just

(15:43):
like plugging stuff in and having it spit back out
and publishing it as their own work and stuff, people
not thinking for themselves, people leaning on these things as
research tools. These are problems. And so yeah, that is
that dark That is that darkened version of what you're
alluding to. I mean, it's everybody, it really is is.
I think it's that sort of civilizing trickster motif, that
sort of Promethean motif of like, you know, we always

(16:05):
get technology from this imaginal realm of spirit, right, But
you know, fire is obviously one of the greatest gifts
or inventions, depending on which you know you ascribe to.
There you go. Fire, it's one of the greatest. It's
one of the greatest things that we have as a species.
But it also can be used for immense destruction, you know.

(16:27):
So that's a that's a classic case example of what
we're dealing with here. And I think that an awareness
of that myth, because myths are true and they repeat
over and over again and they tell you about the
human condition. And awareness of that myth as we go
into this brave new world of large language models and

(16:48):
big robotic promises, I think is going to be important.
And of course it just so happens to coincide with
this disclosure season, you know.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah, right, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
Yeah, I mean, it's yeah, and that's that's why you know,
I you know, I think that.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
So my latest book is about fiction's becoming fact, and
I don't necessarily want to dwell on it too much,
but it definitely feels like it's very much of this
time period, which is the trickster time period. I'll argue, like,
it's not like, oh, there have been great developments in
UFO disclosure. It's that this is the time, this is
the point of the timeline where nobody believes authority structures,
where lies mass great as truth and truths mass great

(17:25):
as lies. This is the post truth era. This of course,
this is the time when the trickster comes out and
when the UFOs come out. So it feels definitely much,
definitely a piece of that, you know. And of course
it's the time when AI is rewriting our expectations and
rewriting history and all this stuff. So I just the
flavor is consistent from the UFO space, through the cultural space,
through the technological space.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yeah, for sure. I mean unfortunately, as a species, even right,
we're always ripe for a rewrite, right, Like it's just
a setup. It seems like it's always a setup, and
be doesn't mean it always happens, but there's always that
that chance.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
Right.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
One of the things that I saw is like when
my kids were in school, Well, so I have a
pretty I have a fifteen year gap between my oldest
and my youngest, and so you know, I saw my
thirty year old she she's, you know, learning very much
like I did in school. But then you have that
whole progression where like my youngest isn't even taught curse

(18:31):
how to write cursive, right, and we.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Could go down that rabbit hole about it, you know, cursive,
but I'm forty and by the time I got to
that point, they'd stop doing it too. My mom actually
ended up throwing a book of cursive in front of me,
and so I know cursive through her efforts, but not
through school. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
So like it's one of those things. And I just
used that as an example. I'm not, you know, going
down that rabbit hole, but it's it's, you know, because
of the word cursive. You could make a whole episode
just off of that.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
But I'm not, I'm unaware of any of that. Okay,
I'll take your word for it, all right, Okay, okay.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
Either way, you can't read our founding documents, right or
should I say they're they're more difficult to use. I'm
just you know, this is just the United States in general.
But yeah, so it's it's ripe for rewriting. I mean,
I think most folks who would say religious books across

(19:22):
the centuries have been rewritten or reinterpreted or whatever as
well to an extent.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
Again, well, that's I mean, that's that's sort of the
thing that I'm always struck with in this era is
that I go back and forth between things are getting
worse and it was always this bad, and we're just
more aware, right because of the Internet, you know. Yeah,
I go back and forth between those two extremes.

Speaker 3 (19:47):
Right, So I do want to talk about just because
it's fascinating to me. And this goes way back in
your work to your first book, The a Trojan Feast
And what's the rest of the.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Type food and drink offerings of fair these aliens and sasquatch.
Hopefully I can remember. That's amazing, Come on, hopefully I
can remember the rest of the book as well as
I remember the subtitle.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
So, and I actually wrote it down, but of course
I didn't have it popped up. So explores the role
of food and paranormal encounters leaking linking folklore UFO contact.
These stories encryptid lore through the act of sharing meals
with non human entities.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
To me, because I am.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
A bigfoot guy, and we have this gifting rock thing
sometimes that people do and and whatnot, but.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
That goes deeper, right, because it goes so much deeper,
you know, and folklore especially. Yeah, And I would have like,
it's kind of in a world where there's an extra
day in the week, I will revise a Trojan Feast
and update it with some of my perspectives that I've
I've learned or I've integrated since then, because you know,
my thing was like, oh, it's all reminiscent of fairy folklore,

(20:56):
but really it's all reminiscent of you know, occultism and
magical practice and religious practice and all those things. And
I think that's sort of a big blind spot for
me ten years ago. But here we are. But yeah,
I mean this in the story of the story of
the Beginnings of a Trojan Feast is because it was
my first book, the story of my origin story and
my entry into this domain. Dear. This must have been

(21:19):
twenty fourteen ish, late twenty thirteen. Yeah, twenty fourteen ish.
I had gotten a gift card from Amazon for Amazon
from one of my sisters in law, and I was like,
I'm going to indulge and get myself a big Foot book,
and I got Jay robert Ally's Raincoast Sasquatch, which is
just a great book. My impression of that book, if

(21:41):
I remember correctly, is that he's more of a flesh
and blood sort of investigator, but he gives space and
respect to a lot of the indigenous beliefs, and I
really admire anyone who does that. So I read this book,
and I'm reading it and I'm going along through it,
and I get stuck on this part where he talks
about I think it's the tiling gets If it's not,
it's the cockwa you walk. So my apologies, but one

(22:02):
of the tribes in Alaska says that they they're Bigfoot analog.
The book was if it gives you what appears to
be dried salmon, not only is it not dried salmon,
it's you know, tree bark that's made to look like
dried salmon. But if you consume that, you'll be stuck
with the book qust forever. And I'm like, ah, that

(22:22):
sounds really really familiar, and then it sounds it's the
exact same thing that you hear and Western European fairy
folk wre right. The idea that you know, if you
go to the goat among the fairies and they will
give you food or drink that is almost always you know,
leaves and twigs and worms and rocks that's cloaked in

(22:42):
glamour to appear appealing like food and drink. It's not
really food and drink, but if you eat it, you're
stuck with the fairies forever. It's like the the exact
same thing. And I was like, that's really weird, because
you know, Ireland is pretty far from coastal Alaska. And again,
one of the things that I would sort of revise
and expand on if I had a chance, would be

(23:05):
to sort of take a look at how pervasive this is,
because it's it's a motif that you see and a
lot of dealing with the realms of the dead. You'll
see that in South America. You see it just everywhere.
The wisdom that I don't believe has changed. I believe
it's still sort of prevailing wisdom amongst Folklorest is that
this food taboo is derivative of the Persephone myth, who

(23:28):
you know, Persephone went to the underworld in Greek legend
and consumed a pomegranate seed, and she was stuck with
hades forever and only just to come out every so often.
But like, how did the persephone myth make its way
to Alaska? Can we answer that? You know, how does it,
as I found in my later work make it? How
does it, as I found in my later work, make
its way into the Amazon basin? And I think that

(23:49):
with something that is that specific, because let's face it,
that's really specific. With something that's that specific, I think
you wind up with one of three conclusions. And I
don't see another way around this. I bring this up
from time to time and ask people to sort of
tell me if there's something I'm missing three things. Three
things are number one, a truly international civilization that cross
pollinated culture to degrees that nobody acknowledges, right, Like the

(24:13):
idea that there were Greeks and current Brazil Like that
doesn't happen, right, That's option number one. Option number two
is that the collective unconscious is much more tangible and
demonstrably real and specific then we acknowledge as a culture.
Or three, these people encountered something and they all had

(24:34):
the same experience with it, and this is objectively how
it works when dealing with these things, and I think
those are your only three options. And so that's kind
of confronting once you realize that, because like, that's that's
not something that I can I can explain away very easily.
So that was the journey that set me on writing
about a Trojan feast. And ten years later, I'm still
fool enough, foolish enough to be on the same path.

(24:55):
But whatever.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah, And the thing is is you bring up those
three different options, I guess you could say, but like
I said earlier, they all kind of rhyme. There is
leed over with those, and I think that's a very
good point. I think people just don't We're a little
blinded to stuff like that, right, Yeah. I mean in
the modern day at.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Least, it's the thing where it's like I can believe
that the persephone myth somehow traveled throughout the Eurasian land
mass and Africa, but like you're you're seeing this in Polynesia,
you're seeing this in island Southeast Asia, you're seeing in Australia,
you're seeing it again in the Americas. I just don't
know what to make of it. And there's some things
that are just like that that pop up time and again,

(25:37):
and like it's it's less like somebody might point to,
like the abundance of pyramids as a structure built all
around the world is sort of a similar idea, a
similar idea. Yeah, but at the same time, like it's
not that far of a stretch to say, the sky
is where mysteries lie, and how do you get to
the sky? You get closer to the sky, like I can.
I'm not saying I should or you should, but I

(25:58):
can find a pretty mundane explanation for why we build
mounds and pyramids and artificial mountains. That food thing is
real specific. It's just so specific, you know. So that
was sort of what sort of set me on the
path that I've remained on, which is to find something
small and unexplored and to sort of dive into that. Now, granted,

(26:19):
I've wandered from that mandate with the last couple of
books that I've gotten bigger and bigger in scope. I
fully plan on returning to that after this next thing
that I'm working on. But yeah, so often in if
you've voraciously consumed for tea in literature, you will find
things that are throwaway sentences or paragraphs where the author's like, wow,

(26:44):
this seems pretty interesting. I wonder what's up with that anyway,
and moving on, and that's the moment where I go, way, no,
let's unpack this. You know, what can we learn from
these small correspondences about these mysteries as a whole, because,
like tackling them head on for you know what, seventy
or eighty years in the case of UFOs, you know,

(27:08):
to varying degrees. With these other mysteries, tackling these questions
head on has a yielded the sort of results that
I think a lot of people hope for, not that
I think you can obtain those results ever, Like I
think that it's not about finding answers. It's about getting
a better understanding, you know, and a better personal understanding.
I think that's really the end goal that people should
be focusing on. But at the same time, let's switch
up the methodology a little bit. Let's let's focus on

(27:30):
small things that seem inconsequential and trace them across these
different expressions of the paranormal and see what we can learn,
you know, and maybe it's nothing, but maybe it's.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
Something absolutely just the lens we look through, right, Yeah, too,
often people get stuck, and I think the way out
of that is by looking at things from a different
angle or through a different lens.

Speaker 4 (27:53):
Right, Yeah, I was thinking about that in the car yesterday.
It's just like, we in these.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Fields prod ourselves for being so much more open minded
than the regular person on the street, but we have
our own sacred cows. You know a lot of people
who are like you know, you know a lot of
people who are who are convinced that UFOs are extraterrestrial visitors,
or that sasquatch is a relic hominid, or that quite frankly,
ghosts are dead people. These are things that we cling

(28:21):
to really closely in these in these areas, and there
we tend to not react well when people step outside
those possibilities. And that's sort of a bit of a
contradiction that I think a lot of these communities that
espouse open mindedness sort of fall into that.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
Everyone gets confirmation bias right right, right, and siloed. And
unfortunately that's one thing. I mean, I really work hard
not to get siloed. That's that's my big that's my
big thing.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, I'm all about just mixing it up, and you know,
and swishing these things around. And that's that's sort of
what my work process is like too. You know. Somebody
asked me relatively recently about like, you know, how do
you come up with an idea for book? And I'm like, well, like,
what you do is you read all the UFO books.
Let's say you want to write book about UFOs, right,
so I'm just using UFOs as a stand in for

(29:08):
all this stuff. You read every UFO book that you can,
including the stuff that you don't agree with, and you
listen to every podcast and you get a real sense
for the history of the phenomenon, and you talk to
people who have experienced this, and you do all these things,
and you go through the archives and you do some fieldwork,
and then you forget about it. You just stop. You

(29:29):
put all that aside, and you say, wow, that was
a fun journey. And then at some point you'll be
watching or listening to something for your own interests and
something that will ticle you in the back of your
mind and go like, hey, this has something to do
with the UFO thing, like this this is somehow related.
And that's the journey that I've always found, is that
there's something that you'll hear and you'll be like, you know,

(29:51):
Indo European horse sacrifice. It does have something to do
with the UFO phenomena, you know, those sort of things,
and then trying to explain that to people is sort
of where I think the real magic happens. So I
think that, and again, like I think that speaks to
there's that Marshall mcclu in quote, The medium is the message,
Like I think that. Yes, sometimes I think that might

(30:11):
be the reason for a lot of these things is
to put us, to set us on that personal journey
of discovery.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
Absolutely. Yeah, I feel like I get a cut up
in a new one every day.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, well, yeah, have you gotten to that point yet
where you like you sort of like find yourself drawing
lines and things that you like, I can't, I can't
learn about this, Like it's going to take up too
much away.

Speaker 3 (30:35):
Yeah, it's too much time, Like it's I can't go
down that rabbit hole. Like I had so I do
another podcast as well, and I had to just line
out a whole episode that I had created, and I'm like,
because things are changing so quickly too that it's just
like this is absolete, and yeah, recorded it like five
days ago, you know, that kind of thing. So it's

(30:55):
it's not just us, it's the world. It feels like
it's accelerating, you know, in so many aspects, not some
it feels like it's not. But well, you know that
was that's that's Terrence McKenna territory. Yeah, that's absolutely.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
You know, people sort of give him flak for his
timewave zero idea. Not great great writer, but you know
he said, you know it was he was mapping the
eaching onto twenty twelve and you know, twenty twelve in
some people's eyes as a dud, I know, and other
people who were like, no, twenty twelves when stuff really
started getting weird. But one of the things that he
said was, you know, we're spiraling into an asymptotic curve

(31:33):
of novelty, you know, and the idea that things would
get more and more hectic and more and more novel
and more and more unique and like that certainly feels
like that. Like the pace and the amount of novelty
is pretty staggering.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
Absolutely, I mean, just the amount of stuff coming at
us in this space is insane, Like it just doesn't stop.
And uh, you know, which is good. It's good for
content creation. But what is your favorite book you've read?
I know that's not a fair question.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
No, you know, I I if I can, if I
can bring it down to like three or four, I'll
be happy. Yeah, Patrick Harper's Demonic Reality. You know, it's
just I read a review somebody who left me a
bad review on one of my books, and like, I

(32:23):
think that the thing about Demonic Reality is that it
it's kind of a good litmus test for seeing which
people involved in this have poetry in their soul and
which ones don't. And this person who left this review
was like being a real literalist about some stuff. And
I'm like, okay, well you don't get it. And so
like Patrick Harper is just such a wonderful writer and
such a such an insightful person, like one of the

(32:46):
to give an idea of the sort of flavor of
the insights that he has, he references the Exodus of
the Fairies, which is something that's been you've seen since
like Chaucer, the idea that the fairies are leaving this world.
You see it in Tolkien too, right, Like the el's
are leaving for the undying, Like this is the motif
that you see where people actually would report like parades
of fairies, like with their belongings leaving different areas, but

(33:07):
they never you know, they've been doing this since Chaucer, Right,
So one of the things that Harper notes is that
you know, the fairies are going going, but never gone.
And according to the you know, disclosure community and the euthologists,
the aliens are always coming, coming, but never here. And
like that's just such a especially when you consider the
links between fairy folklore and the UFO phenomen and like,

(33:27):
that's such an elegant way of looking at that. And
that's sort of part of what has inspired a subset
of my interests, which is sort of the idea like
the inversion of these tropes can sometimes mean that the
tropes are being represented in this capacity. So Patrick Harber's
Demonic Reality, certainly Jacques Filay's Passport to Magonia is like
the foundation upon which I have. That was the rock

(33:49):
upon which I built my church, right, that was sort
of that you can't not mention that, and I have
to say, and it's not for everybody, but if you
can make your way through it. The one book that
I lean on, time and time again and always always
proves itself correct. Is George P. Hansen's The Trickster in
the paranormal parts of it read like VCR instructions, you know, Yeah,

(34:15):
But having said that, he so handily demonstrates not only
what the trickster archetype is, but it's different manifestations, and
it's the kind of book and there exists exceedingly few
like this in this space, but it's the kind of
book upon which you can make predictions and they tend
to play out accurately, you know. He emphasizes how, you know,

(34:36):
the trickster is boundary breaking, anti structural, transgressive, all these
sort of different things applies. He applies this archetype not
only to the paranormal phenomena at large, but also to
you know, paranormal investigation groups and or you know, conferences
and events. Again, the interplay between people, and it always

(34:58):
holds like you can even sort of see not only
how paranormal news will unfold, but you can also see
how the the sort of interpersonal dynamics of paranormal groups
will sort of fall apart. Based on Hanson's work, It's
it's it's great. That's having said that, like reading it
a paragraph at a time is probably the best way

(35:18):
to tackle it. So like that's sort of my part
of my trifecta. And I'm not I mean, there are
a lot of close I guess in this case close
forths that I would add to that list. You know,
the work of the work of Jenny Randall's, the work
of Jeff Cripel, uh, the work of Jerry Clark. And

(35:41):
even though I disagree with a lot of his assessments
Lauren Coleman, you know, these are all people who sort
of form the backbone of of what I the way
I think these days.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Breaking up, which is fine. I think it's gonna work
its way through.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Sorry, I don't know what happened, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
That's we resumed. We're good, and you got yourself a drink.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
So that's good. Yeah, yeah, I did. Like the coffee
is done, said now it's time to move on to
the soda. But yeah, so that's that's sort of like
my go to. But you know, I'm always finding new
scholars that I really resonate and appreciate. You know, Martin
Kottmeyer as somebody with whom I felt a rapport online,

(36:25):
and he's a great researcher and thinker in terms of
the way that he looks back at earlier antecedents to
these phenomena, which is actually kind of ties into what
we were talking about earlier. He has pointed out, like
Bertrand may use that like the UFO phenomenon has this
reciprocity with culture, and it's like picking up cultural expectations
and things that appear in fiction end up end up
in real life UFO counts and stuff. Martin sort of

(36:48):
determined pretty convincingly that the first example of a UFO
that causes electronics or engine interference actually appeared in pulp magazines,
which is an important servation. I would say, though this
ties directly back to our conversation about technology and about
how the phenomenon reacts. That the idea of a UFO

(37:10):
shutting down your car engine or radio or headlights or
whatever is substantively the same thing as a ghost blowing
out a candle, right, because this is something non human
extinguishing our technology, right, Like that's what that's what the
broadest strokes of the motifars. But again, like if you
go back far enough, are you going to find that

(37:32):
in fiction? You know? And I think you're just going
to play this sort of like the sort of game
of like leap frog fiction reality fiction reality.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
And you see that again we talk about things rhyming.
It happens with ghosts with very normal shutting things out,
lights flickering, all that stuff. Bigfoot cameras just not working.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, yeah, And I think that, like, I think that
what happens is like if you try to trace like
where it appeared first in first person accounts or in art, like,
you're probably gonna wind up at petroglyphs, right, You're probably
gonna wind up at like cave art. And that's why.
That's that's why I like, I think it's I think
it's important to say, hey, yeah, these you know, these
figures look like gray aliens. But like that's not that's

(38:18):
not the message that should be taken from that. It's
just the idea that these forms and motifs have been
around a long time. And I suspect it's part of
how we interact with this other intelligence is sort of
grafting those image of images onto it.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Yeah, So I mean, like with that, and and I
don't think this is just modern society, but more like
humans in general. Why why are they so Why are
we so uncomfortable with ambiguity, especially when it comes to

(38:54):
the supernatural.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yeah, my mentor Greg Bishop calls it the certainty fetish,
like you've got to you've got to land on something
one way or the other. Yeah, I don't know. I
think a lot of that is the fact that I
see this in the cryptology community so much good and
call it out. I feel like a lot of very intelligent,

(39:17):
thoughtful people have been noticing some genuine anomalies in the
realm of say Bigfoot, and have for a long time
been bringing those observations to the orthodox scientific community and
been laughed at. And I think that there is this
desire to be proven right at the end of the

(39:37):
day and to be able to say I told you
so right. I think that's part of it. But again,
I just I have to wonder if that's not the
worst message that we could be taken from this, because
it does come back to this sort of personal transformation,
that sort of re enchantment of the world that I
was talking about earlier, with the way that it makes

(39:59):
you view things around you in a new light. And
that's why I think that some of my stuff doesn't
necessarily resonate with people because a lot of maybe even
most of paranormal media is hung up on this question
of is it real or not? Like that's the that's
the only question they want to answer. I think it's
so much more interesting to say, Okay, let's proceed under

(40:19):
the assumption that it is. What can we learn about
these repetitions and these motifs and these other things that
we see time and time and time again, Like is
there something some sort of insight that can be pulled
out from that. I think that's such a more rewarding
place to go because because you know, my favorite skeptics
do this, right, my favorite skeptics and I do have

(40:40):
I do know if you my favorite skeptics are the
ones who say, you know, Josh, I don't think that
this is real in the same way that you do.
But it still needs to be investigated, It still needs
to be reported, it still needs to be interrogated, because
at the at the very least, it will tell us
something about ourselves. I'm like, yep, can't argue with that?
Can I argue with that?

Speaker 4 (41:01):
No?

Speaker 3 (41:02):
True, it's so musician and you play the tuba right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Yeah, I'm an embarrassment everywhere I go. I played the tube.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Was like the fact that you can play a instrument
is amazing. So being a musician, what connections do you
see between like sound frequency and like maybe manifestation of
the paranormal?

Speaker 2 (41:29):
Like is that a thing? Yeah, I mean I think
that there's something to it. I think there's something to
the whole idea of vibrations as at least a metaphor,
you know, the idea of waves and vibrational frequencies. If
you'll allow me to indulge myself with some research that
I sort of put together from one of my books.
If I can remember even where it is, because it's specific,

(41:52):
I need to make sure I grab this. So, there's
been this long standing conflation that sleep paralysis and alien
abduction are the same thing. Well, number one, they don't
really seem like the same thing in terms of the
felt experience, right, sleep paralysis pushes you down, and you know,
alien abductions are all about being lifted up. Right. But
there's some interesting research that I found from this person
named Michael N. Marsh, where researchers discover that the application

(42:16):
of low amplitude electrical stimuli applied to the vestibular cortex
gave people sensations of sinking or falling, while the opposite
higher currents gave people feelings of out of body experiences basically.
And what I think is interesting about that is, if
you know, you sort of apply a metaphorical lens to

(42:37):
this low amplitude sleep paralysis, high amplitude out of body experiences,
it seems to map on to what we see with
people who have these experiences, right, because sleep paralysis, sleep
paralysis experiences always say that these are negative things around them,
things that the new agers would say were low frequency
you know entities, and people who have out of body

(42:59):
experiences are the ones having you know, high frequency experiences.
These sort of like positive so it's interesting that the
amplitude would apply to that. Where I tend to see
the overlap between music and the paranormal in general is
just in the altered states of consciousness or space, and
it's hard to describe unless you've had it happen to you.

(43:21):
But like there's some things where so like you know,
most of what I do is New Orleans music, So
like I'm there's always almost always an improvisatory component, you know,
if I'm if I'm walking basslines or crafting baselines, or
on the rare occasion that someone's foolish foolish enough to
let me take a solo. There always is sort of
an on the spot sort of making up component, which

(43:41):
I have found to be infinitely more rewarding than classical music.
But that's another story. But like, there are moments. It
doesn't happen all the time, but there are moments when
it really does feel like you plug into something and
you get into that flow state, which probably is like
channeling light, you know, where it's like automatic writing or
something like that, where you sort of let this other
thing take control, and you know, you listen back to

(44:02):
yourself and you're like, oh, that was that was me?
That trueck doesn't sound like me. So there's that, and
then there's you know, what's interesting for me about what
I do and the bands that I've led is that
like I can't I don't know if you're familiar with
like New Orleans brass band music, but like there's not
a lot of opportunities for the tuba player to say
anything because they're just like, I play these gigs and

(44:25):
it's pretty much the horns on my face literally NonStop
for the entire show. You know, there are gaps between tunes,
but like if we're playing music, I am playing So
that makes leading a band kind of tricky. But there
have been times in the past where I have I've
led a band and if I have the right group
of people around me I'm familiar with and then I've
played with long enough, there does seem to be a

(44:46):
sort of fragile neural network, telepathic neural network that comes
up around us. Part of this can be explained by
my familiarity playing with these other people, right, But I
think part of it too is that like there is
some sort of mildly telepathic thing going on, because I
have been in those situations where I have switched to

(45:08):
something just to throw a wrench into, you know, a
boring gig. I've switched into something a different style or
a different feel, and it has been so anticipated by
the rest of the group that it sounds like it
was rehearsed. I think that's a little bit more magical
than a lot of us apprehend.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
Yeah, absolutely, it's that. Yeah, it's the it's the vibe,
you know, it's the right and and that's what we're
talking about, right.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
I did all that I did, all that preamble about
like not being able to having the horn on my
face to be like, I'm not I'm not yelling to people,
I'm not offering commands to people. Like it's just kind
of like a look and then I switch and then
you know, even without any words, it's it's been been
taken up by everybody else.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
Absolutely, Yeah, for sure. Well, I mean, if you're to
sum up, because you've got a lot of resear like
porn poring, like what is your research, like you're current
what would you call it? Working model of reality? Because
of all of this research and all the inputs that
you've taken shoved into your.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
Head, right being a complete weirdo.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
Like I have been, I guess that's the best way
to put it, Like you're working model of reality.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
No, that's that's a great that's a great way to
put it. Well. Number one, I hate materialism and I
hate physicalism, like I just think that those I think that,
don't get me wrong. Don't get me wrong. Religion. Religion
has been responsible for plenty of atrocities, right, but the
day to day in humanity and selfishness that I see,

(46:40):
I think a lot of that can be laid AT's feet,
in materialism's feet thankfully. You know, the new atheism of
the nineties is kind of dead on arrival at this point,
which I think is a really good thing. But something
besides physicalism and materialism I think is important, or I
think is probably what's going on. I'm a fan of idealism.

(47:02):
I'm a fan of panpsychism. Friend Barbara Fisher has described
me as a Christian mystic animist sort of thing. Is
that again, Barbara Fisher, she used to run the Six
Degrees of John Keel podcast and she's edited my last
couple of books, and I'm working on a project with
her right now. But you know, I've always been sympathetic

(47:24):
to the idea that everything is insuld to a certain degree,
but as far as what the phenomenon is, right, unless
we're talking about idealism, I hate simulation theory, right, I
just can't. Yeah, right, there's there's no opportunity for transcendence.
I think it's just another the latest example in a
long string of examples where we're like, oh, maybe the
paranormal functions like a radio, or oh maybe the paranormal

(47:44):
functions like a television. Now it's like, oh, maybe it
functions like like a video game, you know, it's it's
I think that as a metaphor it's useful, but like
as a literal interpretation. No, but again, I'm dancing around
this what I think that is going on with the phenomenon.
I have been led to a conclin illusion that I
have not I never really wanted to be the case.
My inner twelve year old still wants there to be

(48:06):
an alien that lands on the White House lawn. You know.
I want to go into the backyard right now and
run into a flesh and blood Bigfoot, because that's cool,
and that's what I was sold in the beginning. You know,
as I've gone further down this path, specifically the path
that took me through ecology of souls, looking at the
way that that death interfaces with these phenomena and Fourth

(48:30):
Wall phantoms, looking at the way imagination interfaces with all
these phenomena, I'm not sure how much of this doesn't
come from us. And again I'm not saying that it's
all in people's heads, and I'm not saying that people
are crazy, and I'm not saying any of this stuff.
I'm saying that, like there's something about us that can
exteriorize and or the distinctions between us and other things
and us and other people. Obviously with us and other

(48:52):
entities intelligences, that's much more illusory than we think it is,
like there's a certain oneness that undergirds everything. So, yeah,
I think that there's something to that, but I think
it's I think it's less of the idea that like, oh,
we're all projecting these things as thought forms or something.
I think what it really implies is that there is
a a substrate of reality that doesn't recognize things like

(49:15):
living or dead or extinct or alive or fantasy in fiction.
I think that that is there, and sometimes it bubbles
up and you can call that a lot of things.
You can call that the other world, you can call
it fairyland, you can call it the imaginal, you can
call it a lot of different things. But I think
that might be what we're seeing and our human consciousness is.
I'm sort of mixing a bunch of different metaphors here,

(49:35):
so forget yeah, no, but I'm going to sort of
imply bring into the conversation one of the metaphors that
Carl Jung used with synchronicities. I think that the human
consciousness is a bit like it's a bit like a
sailing ship. You know, we're sailing the ocean, and that's
what we see. And meanwhile, there is a sea floor
underneath this where all this stuff is connected, right, And
we just see these little islands that pop up every

(49:57):
now and then. And it doesn't necessarily mean it's not
a part of reality, but it's you know, it's it's
just something that becomes more apparent in certain moments. That's
not much way of an example, but I will say
in general, I've moved much less from like there are
discrete entities that look like X, Y, Z, and more
into like the idea of spirits and what our spirits are,

(50:22):
the archetypes or they because you know, we say spirits
and people space you say spirits, especially if you have
a Christian background, and people are like, oh, you think
it's all angels or demons. That's not at all what
I'm saying. That's why ecology of souls is called ecology
of souls, right, But I definitely move into that sort
of more metaphysical space, that spirit space, and that archetypal space.
I think these are all sort of dancing around the
same sort of substrate that I alluded to earlier. That's

(50:44):
a rambling answer, and I'm sorry for it, but that's probably.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
The best I've got because it's not a it's it's
a difficult question, right, and we're talking about this breadth
of knowledge and or you know, it's a big high
stringens as a large genre, right because unfortunately, yeah, you
can nuance it down and put everything in its own niche, right,

(51:08):
but let's be honest, we didn't really do that.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
And well, that's something that like I increasingly run out
of patience for, is that, like, there are two people
in this field. There are the people who think that
these are all separate things, and they're the people who
have actually read a lot of books, you know, And
that's that's a harsh thing to say, yeah, the harsh
thing to say. But like you can only like a
classic example, I keep running into these stories. I hope

(51:33):
to pursue this in more depth one day, but like
you run into these stories where people are the only
person awake in their camp while it's under attack from Bigfoot,
and they're beating on the chests of other people trying
to wake them up and they won't wake up. And
then you hear that in an alien abduction, and then
you hear that in a fairy story, and I have
the receipts for those, right, that's specific, and that's weird,

(51:55):
and like, it'll be weird to me if these things
weren't related and they still sort of manifested those things.
You've got the smells, you've got the food taboo, you've
got the association to death. You've got the buzzing sounds
and humming sounds. You've got all sorts of stuff that's
before even getting into how like near death experiences and
shamanic initiations look like alien abductions. I'm like, it does

(52:16):
seem to be the same space that we go to,
and I'm not sure that. I'm not sure that it's
the same thing. Nobody who tells you that they're sure
of anything in this is telling the truth, right, But
I cannot shake the sense that, like, if these things
are not the same thing, they are related. And those
Venn diagrams overlap a lot. Yeah, And again, I'm sorry
if that was kind of of ours thing to say,

(52:37):
but like, I see so many there's so many similarities,
and you just got to look for them, and you've
got to have you've got to be well informed in parapsychology,
and you've got to be well informed in neuthology and
well informed in cryptology. And only then do these things
start to interplay in your mind and play together.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
And I think it's just all overwhelming. And I think
it's overwhelming as somebody that's into all of it. And
I I what I've come to realize over the last
year is really that I I'm exploring the connections between
these That's my big thing, right, isn't so much you know,

(53:16):
bigfoot or cryptids and then UFOs like I, Yes, they're
all separate, but I I think, as we've I've said exhaustively,
they all rhyme. So I think you're you're hitting the
correct nail with with your with your stuff here. I
I just it's it's all like a big giant thread

(53:37):
through all of your work, is like this folkloric stuff
and the energies and the you said, the sounds, the smells,
I mean, we didn't even talk about smells. And it's
all just so much.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
So I mean, it's and it can be overwhelming. And
that's why I think that sometimes the best way to
approach it is to is to tackle these smaller bits.
You know, so I can still hear you, but your
face is frozen.

Speaker 3 (54:04):
Something doesn't want people to hear this.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Right, Yeah, that's it was funny the first like forty
times I made that joke, and then I was like, okay,
so right.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
Now it's true though. Stuff happens. So what I'd like,
unless you have something else that this is the thing,
anything else that you'd like to say other than where
can people find your work and what's next for you?

Speaker 2 (54:27):
I would just encourage people who are into this to
get weird and to get a niche, right, and to
look at things that have not been explored, because you
can never tell what sort of rewards you'll find. I mean,
there's a book that I keep on wanting to pick up,
and I have not picked it up yet, but there's
a book on these stories of like quadrupedal bigfoot sightings
that came out recently. I'm like, Oh, that's that's my jam,

(54:48):
Like I can't wait to read it because it's that's
exactly the sort of thing that like I hate to
tell you, you're not going to solve the mystery of UFOs.
You're not going to solve the mystery of ghosts. You're
not going to solve the mystery of bigfoot. So why
you take one little thing instead of by you know,
instead of instead of trying to wrap your mouth around
the entire pie, why don't you take a slice of
the pie and try to, you know, do your best

(55:09):
with that. So that would be my sort of words
of encouragement. You can find me at joshuacutcheon dot com.
Any events that pop up or news that pops up
will be listed there on that website, and you can
also find links to all of my interviews as well
as all my books, and how to get copies straight
from me that are signed by me at no extra charge.

(55:29):
I do that in the continental United States because you know,
I think it's nice. It's nice to be able to
send people signed copies, and you know it cuts out
the middleman too, so it's nice, yes.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
Big time for sure.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
One of the things I did see at your website,
which is cool, is you do a lot of appearances.
Not as many as i'd like, Yeah, right, but there's
a decent amount there.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Yeah. Yeah, And you know I have to be I
have to be I have to sort of this is
usually a private conversation that I have, but like I
have tried to be aware of when I'm complaining about
not going to McDonald's all the time, when I'm having
steak dinners, you know what I mean. So, like a
good example of that is is this year, you know,
I don't have a lot of conference appearances, but at
the end of the year, I am attending the Esslon

(56:12):
Institute with Jeff Kripel and Kevin Kan as their workshop assistant.
And Esslon's been on my bucket list for a long time,
the birthplace of the Human Potential movement in the United States.
So just to do that, to spend time with those
two individuals as something that's a real put privilege. So yeah,
but anybody's listening to this, invite me to your event,
no speaker fee, just see that I can get out

(56:34):
there and see that I've got a roof over my
head and we're good to go.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
Yeah. Absolutely, Well, Josh, thank you so much for coming on.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Well, it's been absolutely wonderful, and really it's been a
great way to start the day, and it's been a
great conversation. And I always like it when you know
I as as sort of a parting bit of not advice,
but it's a parting bit of camaraderie. You know, I
do a lot of podcasts and everyone is I really
respect everyone's work into it. But there are these conversations

(57:03):
where I can say something and people understand what I mean,
where we can leave, we can leave frag ahead a
couple of steps, and this has been one of the
So thank you so much for that.

Speaker 3 (57:13):
Yes, awesome, glad to hear it. I appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
It's been a blast anytime.

Speaker 3 (57:18):
He who controls the mind controls the war. But first
he must silence the noise.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Yeah, straight from the catacombs where the scrolls was hidden,
Whining monks chant versus in the Watchman's Risen broadcast to
see son.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
It ain't just a show.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
It's a frequency shift from the realm below the encrypto
speech from the outer courts with the bloodline of kings
and celestial reports god en for lump second a backpack
word while these reptile suits try to sense of the
word yo, why steps through portals with the micas my chorch,
dropping sermons so raw they send drunks to the porch.

(58:03):
They surveil what I spit can't silence the flame got
angels and camera with encrypted names. Were talking black ops
and black robes, falling stars with zip codes, Temple scrolls
and tom codst Peace with ten horns and stealth mode
from Mount Herman and the Grand Canyon faults with a
Smith Sony and beeries Humanity's folks. But we dig with

(58:23):
the pins slight slides with the flow like Eplijah on
the mountain when the fire hit the show. Yo, this
is spiritual warfare and Steveriyo Holy scripts flipping through the
technicolor Ferrigo. No fiction, just friction between realms, dropping balls
like Prophecy with Angelly Helm. So when you tune in,

(58:43):
just know what it is. It's ancient world drums, not
a podcast for kids. It's the Watch Tour Gospel wrapped
in grit broadcast. The Seeds were the last ones. Legit,
straight truth, no floor rod filter, ghost in the wires
with the soul look for billed up. Welcome to the
front lines, the kingdom cries out, So grab your arm

(59:05):
and your mic and cast a cut out.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
I want to swetch your homes and the Texas Senda's
prisons it's water wicking tip. Drews, drew