The CFL Outsiders S02/E08 (Just Call Me the Jon Snow of Football)

The CFL Outsiders S02 E07 – Just Call Me The Jon Snow of Football

Not your ordinary football fan cast. Old Man & the crew see the game from a unique perspective with questions and insights you will not find elsewhere.

In this episode of CFL Outsiders, the hosts discuss various topics including the significance of negotiation lists in the CFL, , player injuries, and a fun moment featuring Doug Flutie. They also analyze the recent Calgary vs. Saskatchewan game, touching on team dynamics, quarterback performances, and the implications of weather protocols on game postponements. In this episode, the hosts analyze recent CFL games, focusing on the Ottawa vs Hamilton matchup and the performance of various teams, including Edmonton's struggles and coaching decisions. They discuss player performances, referee decisions, and the overall dynamics of the games, while also making predictions for upcoming matchups.

 

00:00 Welcome Back

02:24 The Importance of the Negotiation List

10:58 Doug Flutie and the Savannah Bananas

14:48 Toronto Injury Updates

19:01 Game Recaps and Analysis

21:41 Game 1: Calgary 24 @ Saskatchewan 10

28:39 Key Players and Game Strategies

40:04 Coaching Decisions and Player Reactions

43:35 Game 2: Ottawa 20 @ Hamilton 23

50:47 Game 3: BC 32 @ Edmonton 14

01:02:37 Team Dynamics and Coaching Challenges

01:06:39 Predictions for Upcoming Games

 

Opening jingle and segment intros by, The Goddess @swell144.bsky.social

MJ’s avtar designed by MJ’s sister

Social Media contacts

Oldman – Bluesky -    @oldman-sac.bsky.social

                    Mastodon - @oldman_shoutingatclouds   mstdn.ca server

                     Reddit-         u/Oldmanshoutingcloud                              

GT - @gtbarnum.bsky.social

MJ - @sportsandplants

The CFL Outsiders – (X) @thecfloutsiders

e-mail [e-mail]

Episode Transcript

(00:38):
Hey kids, welcome back to another week of the CFL Outsiders.
I remain as always your 100 % impartial, completely unbiased and thoroughly humbledco-host, Old Man Shouting at Clouds.
And, joining me this week, back from the brink of death, it's GT!

(01:01):
Hey, how is everybody?
I'm glad to be back.
Good to have you.
And it's the original band all back together because MJ's with us this week.
Hey MJ!
I have solidified my starting role.
Yes you have.
Locked in there.
it was great of MJ2 to jump in when we needed her for those two shows.
That was really good.

(01:22):
I'll say right off the bat, I'm humbled because I was one for three out of Pickham thisweek and I actually thought I was doing okay in points on Fantasy.
I got 101.8 which is usually a good week but there were points to be had everywhere and Ilost by over 50 points.
So that was Dalt from Rouge Radio and I'm back to three and three.

(01:45):
So back at 500 and I've got Greg on sports from Piffles, podcast next week.
So we'll see how that all goes.
That's about brings us up to where I was at now, but GT was away last week when we talkedabout the negotiation lists and
I think he had a comment you wanted to make.
I did.
I have issues, more than issues.

(02:08):
sorry, I am going to cough probably throughout.
So I apologize.
I'm going to drink some water.
Try not to cough too much over the course of the next little while while we're chatting.
And maybe you'll even keep me quiet for a second or two.
But nonetheless, I just thought, you know, I listened to the podcast, of course,afterwards.
And I had put the negotiation list on my news from last week when it was first announced.

(02:30):
And I thought three of you talked about it, but very briefly, obviously that was what youthought of it.
You all said, no big deal.
And I went, wait, this is a huge deal.
I have to do the rebuttal
Now, I spoke to my wife about your comments and then about my issue with your comments andshe said, you're such a nerd.
Only nerds care about this stuff, which is basically what you guys did.

(02:51):
However, I will say for the nerd on the podcast, I guess that's now me.
This is big news.
The negotiation list predates the CFL.
The negotiation list was introduced
in the 30s and into the early 40s when Americans were first allowed into the old rugbyunion leagues.

(03:12):
it's prior to the 1958 amalgamation of the two leagues into the CFL.
It is basically the way for, at that time, Americans to get drafted because the CFL, doesnot have an American draft
They have each team is allowed to put up to 45 players on their list.
The list is comprised of players that are not currently signed.

(03:36):
They're in the NFL.
They're in other professional leagues.
So it could be somebody in Europe.
It could be somebody in Japan.
could be somebody, I think there's a pro league in China.
and also in American colleges.
That can be a little confusing sometimes because Canadian players can get added to thenegotiation with ALA.
The Riders have currently chase Chase Claypool, who was with Pittsburgh and then Chicagoand then a couple of other I think he's in Buffalo now, but he was never drafted and he's

(04:06):
been unsigned.
So even though he's Canadian, he can be added to the negotiation list.
another quirky Canadian CFL silliness rule, but that's how it works.
I think it's important because a few years ago, they opened up 10 names to the list.
And then last week, they finally opened up the entire 45 names on everybody's list to thegeneral public.

(04:29):
Now, nerds like me have been wanting this list for years Within the two days of that beingopened up, I saw at least a half a dozen international articles about the negotiation list
how the process works and interesting players from various colleges including some guysthat are currently in the NFL.

(04:49):
that's all part of why this is important it brings international attention to the list,brings international attention to the league.
as you said last week old man i have no idea who these players are i don't know a u.s.
college unless it's got a state's name in it however the alumni and the u.s.
college followers of people that do follow NCAA football are all well into those type ofplayers so the fact that somebody puts their name out there

(05:15):
and makes noise draws attention to the league to a wider audience.
I also think it's important because it allows players and agents in the US to understandthat a team in particular has their interests and therefore all of a sudden they have an
option that they might not have even known they had before.
It also allows for trades within the negotiation lists that become interesting because alot of times you've heard that, and a player to be named from someone's negotiation list

(05:41):
in a trade and you go, well, who's that?
We don't know.
Well, for example, the latest one and the most example of biggest example of that is ChadKelly.
He was traded from Edmonton's negotiation list to Toronto's negotiation list simplybecause he didn't want to play in Edmonton.
And his agent reached out and said,
I don't want to play in Edmonton.
If you can negotiate a trade to get me to the East where my family is, then I will be moreamenable to looking at the Canadian Football League as an option.

(06:11):
And we live in a world where information is king.
And the more information we have,
and the more information you get out to fans the more the game and the league is going togrow.
So the fact that Stuart Johnson has already abolished, the secrecy, drawn back thecurtain, whatever it may be, think about it is great.
I'll also give you another example of why it's kind of interesting because

(06:34):
you can look at the list and you can say, that's how my team views their needs are becausethey have protected this number of players at each position.
And I'll give you two that I did before I got tired of doing this, because unfortunately,I couldn't sort, so I had to do it manually.
But in BC their negotiation list consists of 12 quarterbacks, two running backs,

(06:58):
nine wide receivers, four offensive linemen, 10 defensive linemen, two defensive ends, twolinebackers and two defensive backs.
So that's, and you look at that go, oh, BC's got quarterbacks, man.
They must think they need a quarterback down the road.
On the other hand, it's interesting, Calgary, the next team over geographically has twoquarterbacks on their list, three running backs,

(07:25):
seven wide receivers, four offensive linemen, seven defensive linemen, two defensive ends,two linebackers, and 11 defensive backs.
it's really varied.
And if you go through the list of all nine teams, you'll see the same kind of thing.
if you're interested, if you're in the weeds a little bit like I am, then you're gonna go,that's kind of cool, I like that.

(07:50):
then you will see some names and you go, that's interesting.
Why did that guy get put on that list?
in the Ti-cats case, they had Johnny Manziel on their list for years.
but that paid off for them because eventually he got there.
They sold a ton of jerseys.
They got all kinds of press all over North America and around the world with the HamiltonTiger Cats name associated to it.

(08:13):
Then they traded them for like a crazy amount of picks and ruined Montreal for five years.
It's just like the draft.
And I'm a draft nerd too.
So I can talk CFL draft all night as well on when it happens.
I wanted to take a couple of minutes and I probably wouldn't have went this deep lastweek.
but in a rebuttal you have to.

(08:34):
So that's it.
That is negotiation list 101, 201 and 301 for that matter.
Okay.
Well, definitely far more than we covered on it last week.
And there's points there that I have to admit make some sense.
I still sort of go back to my view on it though, is that I know it gets internationalcoverage, but I don't know how much good it does because nobody that sees it

(08:58):
internationally understands it.
And I can't remember the quarterback, but there was
one of the bigger name college or, or NFL quarterbacks about a year and a half ago, theygot added to a list.
So it got press, it got released and it got pressed down in the States and everything.
And what I found on everything that I was seeing anyone American on what they were going,so he signed with them?

(09:20):
No, he didn't sign with them.
so he has to, he has to agree to this.
All right.
No, he doesn't have to agree to it.
It's just, he, they've got the, well, and then they had no idea what was going on.
So how much does that help us?
don't know.
Yeah.
it's kind of easily explained as an American draft.
That's really in essence what it is.
Yeah.
And I get that, but I guess what I'm saying is there's nobody to explain that to them.

(09:43):
So they're just, they see it and they get confused and they don't know what it means.
And otherwise for me, I've even looked at the ones where you get the 10 names on the list.
They come and they go and they're all over the place and we never see most of them up hereanyway.
So, so I, I, I can be a bit of a football nerd myself, but I have to say, to me, that'sjust too much interest for checking out people that we may never see and everything.

(10:05):
But, agree to disagree.
You got anything on that MJ or are we?
Actually, I really appreciate explaining to me because it actually makes a lot of sense.
I'm still not going to look it up though.
But it's actually really cool to learn about it, so thank you.
Yeah, and I don't look at it more than once or I haven't looked at it because you didn'tknow what the list was.
Now that I know what the list is, I'll look at it maybe once or twice a year at most.

(10:28):
The next step is do we ever get to see actual, you know, payrolls and salary structures ofthese teams?
Because that's the, you know, that would be the ultimate step.
The other thing I'll do for you GT is I'll forward you on blue sky.
I was mentioning last week, somebody followed me there.
They've started up a CFL transaction list tracker that they say, as long as you followthem, you'll get every change that comes up on any of the transaction lists.

(10:51):
uh So there you go.
even though I'm not interested, I still get the information coming in,
MJ, you had something about, Mr.
Flutie?
Yeah, this is along the lines of the it's fun to have fun and baseball.
So Doug flew the eve throughout the first pitch at a Savannah Bananas game.

(11:12):
And for those who don't know about banana ball, it started in Savannah, Georgia with twoteams, the Savannah Bananas and the party animals.
And it's kind of, it started kind of like the Harlem Globetrotters where they do trickplays and there's different rules.
But unlike the Harlem Globetrotters, the generals win, AKA the party animals.

(11:34):
it's expanded and now there's the Savannah bananas, the party animals, the tailgaters andthe visitors and the fire.
there's, think there's a fireman.
Anyway, it's like, there's a quite, there's at least five or six teams now and they're ona world tour.
They sold out Fenway park in like under 10 minutes.
So, if you haven't watched that, they always do crazy walk-ups, they have songs, theysing, they have a designated runner One of the team's guys wears a space motorcycle helmet

(12:06):
for his designated runner outfit.
There's guys who are batting shirtless, and there was one guy who bats on stilts.
Anyway, it's a lot of fun.
If you have a chance to watch it, ESPN is carrying 10 other games this year.
TSN also has it on there sometimes.
It's a lot of fun.
at Fenway Park in front of a sold out crowd, Doug Flutie came out to pitch the first pitchat the Savannah Bananas game.

(12:31):
And Doug Flutie, like instead of only wanting the first pitch, like with nobody there, hemade a batter come in and he pitched to the batter.
And they were like, one pitch, okay, one pitch to the batter.
And then he was like, no, I'm going to keep pitching to this batter.
And you know what?
He got him out.
He made him pop up to the shortstop.

(12:54):
So good job Doug Flutie.
But they were kind of funny because they were like NFL legend and I was like, and CFL.
Yeah, didn't think you were partin'
But it's just nice to see them pop up every once in a while doing something fun.
Yeah.
Can you imagine the, the, the kind of name Flutie would be, would have been if they'dactually given him a chance in the NFL when he was 23, 24, instead of when he, what I

(13:22):
think he was 36, 37 by the time he even got back there and was able to play and stilloutplayed most of them.
in today's world, he probably would have gotten a chance.
They are so much more open to mobile quarterbacks, right?
Now he still doesn't have the size, obviously.
So that would have been the biggest drawback even today.
But his mobility and his scramblability and his, just being able to make plays up andstuff, I think he might've had a better shot today than he did then.

(13:47):
So yeah, we'll never know.
there wasn't an adventurous GM who said, let's take a chance on this.
yeah, thank goodness to our benefit that they did, right?
Cuz we got the pleasure of him being the greatest quarterback the league's seen probably.
Yeah, yeah, we can thank their attitude towards things down there for both him and WarrenMoon up here.

(14:13):
So I'm not complaining.
His arm still looks pretty good.
He was thrown into play, he got some strikes.
maybe he'll end up on someone's negotiation list.
You never know, never know with Mr.
Flutie.
he's an amazing athlete I don't even know how old he is now.
He's got to be late fifties at least, I would think.

(14:34):
I don't know.
I'll look it up sometime.
Anyway.
I think that covers that off.
I was just going to let folks know something that, that I just picked up quick.
I'm not going to go through all the injuries and that, but.
Found it interesting today that when I was looking through things for Toronto, Kelly didnot participate for practice again.

(14:56):
He's come back from limited to doing that and Ryan Hunter and of course the running backWilliams are still on there.
So that's not there.
None of them are going to be in this game.
I don't know how long Kelly's going to take.
I saw an interview with the coach and he said next week rather than this week.
He's practicing this week and full practice, they still don't want him to go until nextweek.

(15:20):
but today at practice or yesterday, I guess from the list he was, did not participateagain.
So that's he's not going full all week anyway.
On the good news for them, McManis and MacMahon are both back fully participating.
They released Kevin Brown today.
Yeah, well, Macklemore is yeah, that was always a stopgap anyways while Macklemore wasinjured.

(15:42):
with Williams out, still hurt.
would, would have thought they'd keep them around.
They must not be happy with them.
Yep.
And you were going to tell us about something for the panel this week, GT.
I mean it's fairly public knowledge now, but I saw the note that Milt is back this weekand I started, on Friday night in Winnipeg, I guess for Friday Night Football and that's

(16:03):
tremendous news.
Welcome back.
I'm glad to have him back.
I'm sure he will bring some energy and the panel will be ready to go.
And MJ, you had something as well.
Yeah.
So today, Milt announced on his Instagram stories that he and Sanchez are doing a YouTubeshow called, what's it called?
The Paper Plates Show.
So they're going to do us the football hot takes every week.

(16:26):
I'm sure that'll be really fun because they won't be moderated by Kate, they'll just havea free for all.
Yeah, it's on YouTube?
Okay, so it's not a TSN thing.
Excellent.
Okay, good.
Good luck.
the contacts to at least use some of the equipment and get a good quality show out of it.
Yeah.
do you guys notice like, like I kind of forgot that I noticed this that Barker hasn't beenon.

(16:49):
Yeah, he's knocked it on all year.
Some of it, think it was the first pre-season game.
think they might've had some stuff from him.
remember, I thought I saw him once, but not much.
Yeah.
I like that.
And yeah.
And what they've been doing with bringing on where they could, you know, injured playersto fill in.
Like McManus was a great fit for that.

(17:10):
just, actually it was seeing him and Enoch side by side on the panel.
made me realize.
Enoch Mamba is a big man.
I mean, I knew he was a large linebacker, but even Dwarf McManus.
Yeah, I thought the panel I thought I was going to talk about briefly in the game, but Ithought the panel on Sunday night was tremendous.
I thought they were having so much fun.

(17:32):
I just thought it was the best panel I've seen in I don't know how many years
Yeah.
Might, might've been the best part of the game for anyone other than BC fans.
that wasn't, that wasn't a fantastic game.
I was also going to mention just quickly again, sort of the injury stuff, because wetalked last week about, in the, not this week, but last week's game, Devante Dedman for

(17:55):
Ottawa got injured, taken off on a cart.
And I said at the time I, that looks like a season ender the way it's done.
Apparently they've come back and said he's probably back within six.
So good, news for Ottawa.
Yeah.
Glad to see that.
And we'll have the games from this week to talk about, but before we do, you said youlistened to the show last week, GT, any other thoughts on how we did or how lost we were

(18:20):
without you?
thought the show was great.
I did.
mean, there was some obvious, you know, over the top ridiculous comments about the certainteam from Hammer Town, but that's okay.
That's to be expected.
No, I thought it was good.
I will say last week, though, that I didn't get to say that game was a lot closer than itlooked like.

(18:44):
I was the at the game.
So live, it never felt like Toronto was out of that game you score 38 points.
if you could score 38 points, you should win the game.
however, when, Kenny is making catches like that, that those were not like just.
Uncovered those were on outstanding catches and he made another one this week, I don'tthink Toronto looked as bad as the score would indicate when you give up 51 points It was

(19:11):
just incredible that Bo was on and he loves to launch it downfield and Kenny was coming upwith those time after time Toronto never game up gave up by any means
what else was there was it was that?
that was the Winnipeg Calgary game too, right?
And that was just, I don't know what happened there.
I honestly, I think I tweeted at halftime.

(19:32):
I kept waiting.
Yeah.
I kept waiting for the, I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Cause I couldn't, I was like this, you this isn't right.
There's something going wrong here, but they managed to pull it off.
that's basically the two games that probably were the most interesting.
Oh, was also the reckless week with Montreal and the scuffle afterwards and everythingelse as well.

(19:55):
Yeah, you're right, I did.
I did.
did.
Yeah.
mentioned on the show last week that they, that Toronto or the, the Toronto Hamilton gamethe commentator at one point said, Toronto offense has to feel like they're a hamster on a
wheel because they're running as hard as they can and they're just not making up ground.

(20:16):
They were making the plays but couldn't get a break.
So anyway, yeah, that.
the tie counts.
It's going to be a little less hard to talk quite so impressive about the Ti-Cats thisweek because it's a little different week.
You don't know this, I don't understand this game at all.
What the hell happened over the last two weeks?

(20:37):
So let's move on and talk about that.
Let's talk about that.
Sorry, just quickly, just a quick little news note that Boris Beattie got his Canadiancitizenship this week.
Yes, I saw that as well, yes.
Yeah, I always love when like players come up and they love the like living in Canada andbeing part of like our country so much that they want to stay.

(20:57):
So good job, Boris.
unfortunately, I don't think he's with anybody this year, is he?
But he may come back with figure injuries.
unsigned and I thought he might have a good job by now, but I think yeah, he's probably atthe top of the phone list if your kicker goes down.
Apologize for my voice too.
I'm already losing it.

(21:17):
seems like these, this talking is a bit much for me and I had to pre-record the, old manplay CFL fantasy earlier.
So, so I'm already fading, but I'll stick it out as best I can.
First game.
We've only got the three to talk about luckily.
First game though, Friday night, Calgary 24 at Saskatchewan 10.
whoa.

(21:38):
Friday night, Saturday afternoon football.
Yeah.
yeah, actually good point.
Yeah.
We let's start talking about that.
Not Friday night.
We found out, we found out, think at, I believe it was at 10 30 Regina time that the gamewas going to be postponed till the following day.
So that was what four and a half hours.

(21:59):
It's seen a lot of people complaining about it.
And I agree that they have to do a lot better.
But I give the, everybody involved some slack.
Cause it's the first time we've actually moved from going from a game being postponed tocanceled and done properly.
They would have had a full timeline.
They would have done preparation for it that if this comes on, we know what we're lookingfor.

(22:20):
We know what our decision points are.
We know where we're going to make these things and be able to deal with it.
I've done that.
That's a lot of what I used to do, crisis management in my life.
So they should have done that, but it's hard to do.
And companies a lot bigger than the CFL make the same mistake.
So as long as they learn from this and move on, I'm good.
I am shocked today actually.

(22:41):
sorry, go ahead.
I'm just not sure what the complaints are other than like, I don't know what thecomplaints are.
Other than what?
They waited too long?
I never heard, like, was it fans that were there?
Or is it just the people again that are sitting at home in their comfortable basements orfamily rooms with a 70-inch TV and a cold beer complaining that they can't watch?

(23:02):
Well, get over it.
You're not at the game.
You're not sitting in a smoke-filled city.
And it's like the press used to complain about being cold at the Grey Cup.
It used to make me nuts.
You didn't pay for your tickets, and you're sitting up in a booth with hot food.
Why are you complaining about how cold it is?
Actually, I'm hearing a fair amount from the fans that were in the stands and theircomplaints were there were no updates other than we're going to put it off till a quarter

(23:29):
to seven and then no, it's not starting.
And from the things that I've seen from that point, no, it's not starting.
We'll let you know until they came back on about 10 o'clock their time and said, okay, ifwe can get going by a quarter after 11, it's still going to play.
But they just, there was no updates.
were just, they didn't seem to have any communication to within the stands itself.

(23:53):
So again, you So this is where I say with the decision points, you know, you, you come outand you say, okay, we're going to postpone it till six 45.
That's fine.
Then you say, okay, at six 45 over the next hour and a half, we will wait for theseconditions to clear and then update you.
If it hasn't cleared by then people know what to expect.
And that.

(24:13):
That was all it would have taken.
Just a few more steps in there like that.
Yeah, clear expectations and you're right.
that's a fail, if they didn't do that, that's for sure.
even, yeah, I'm shocked that they even enacted a weather protocol.
I don't think this would have happened with Randy as commissioner.
And so I don't think that anyone had a clue what to do because actually their weatherpolicy rules, that should have been a mini game the next time they met by their own rules.

(24:39):
See, I've had that explained differently as well, is that by their rules, as long as theplayers haven't had a warmup, then there is no mini game.
If the players have warmed up and it's an official game and then they go to the mini gameand if they've played X number of minutes, I think it's two thirds of the game, then the
game is considered finished and they don't even go to that.

(25:02):
It's the score at that time.
it
And see, I heard yet another explanation from the league and that was that if the teamsdon't play each other again, then it's a tie game.
Or if a makeup date can be made within the same weekend, they can do it, which is whathappened there.
If they do play each other and they're still, if they can do the makeup date in the sameweekend.

(25:25):
They're still allowed to do that.
Otherwise it's the mini game, the two series mini game at the start of the following game.
So they play their two series, get that over, decide who won the first game and then playa full game.
I also think it helps that they had an afternoon slot time available and there wasn'tanother game going on.
Yeah, and the stadium was available and...
Yes, exactly.

(25:45):
If it had have been in another city, it might not have been available like Toronto,Vancouver, Montreal, have other, even BC, they have other things going on in the stadium.
So they might not have had that availability.
I think they do the best, you do your best with it and you can't predict that stuff.
And yeah, you should, but you should have contingency plans in place in case, and you'dlike to think that they now do, or they now will at least begin to think about.

(26:11):
Because it's going to happen again.
We can see that.
yeah, can happen anywhere.
They're talking about smoke in Southern Ontario this week, so.
I feel like they've always played in worse air quality.
There are games in Calgary and Edmonton that had that bad of air quality and they werelike, we always have a joke about how the CFL field level sensors always have the smoke
under seven.

(26:32):
So I couldn't believe that they, I was like, oh, they're going to play this game.
We all had a big joke about it.
Our whole family's laughing about it.
like, oh my goodness, they're still going to play.
And no, I was like, oh, okay.
Yeah.
Overall, I have to say it was the right decision.
I wish it had been handled a little differently in some ways, but, but yeah.
And I think the difference is now it used to be, they used to feel like they'd get maybeone of those games every four or five years.

(26:55):
So that if they fudged and played anyway, by the time the next discussion came up,everybody forgot.
Now I think they know they're going to have to deal with this probably once or twice ayear at minimum.
But anyway, we finally got through it.
Calgary didn't have to fly back home and come back the next morning.
They, way they started talking about after the game, they managed to get rooms.

(27:16):
I'm told one hotel and the, U of R dorms opened up for them.
And you can debate whether that was better for them, the delay than it was forSaskatchewan.
I don't know, but we finally got to the game.
It, they started off very first pass, VA went deep.
Saskatchewan picked it off, brought it back a reasonable difference.
And I was thinking, well, this game is going to go well.

(27:38):
I think that was the last time I thought that.
Oh no, was two turnovers there at the very beginning.
but still once they got that turnover and I think they took it back to about the Calgary48 or so, couldn't even get a first down and settled for a field goal.
That was depressing.

(27:59):
And then Calgary came out and started marching the way they were doing.
And to me, literally, I'll let you jump in on more of this GT but to me, it was, therewere about three things that were keys to the game.
Calgary did a real good job of picking on the Saskatchewan injuries.
Trayvon Campbell was out at the boundary corner and that was Brooks whose replacement waswho, Alfred burnt for what was it?

(28:22):
Eight for eight and 156 yards, I think, in a couple of touchdowns.
And they did that really well.
And then I don't know if it's really completely that they've improved their run defense asmuch as they have, or how much it had to do with the fact that they also had, Tate,
Trayvon Tate out as.
right guard or left guard and Zach Frye was in there.

(28:44):
And that is a drop off plus I saw at least two or three times where there were pressuresor sacks because Freland at centre should have been double teaming with the right guard
with Rimmer, but he wasn't.
He was going over to help Zach Frye on every play that I saw.
And I think that really messed up their running end and pass game.

(29:04):
So that was the one thing that really keyed to it.
And the other thing was.
Calgary, I wish I could have seen exactly what defenses they were running, but it wasobvious they had a plan where they were not going to let Saskatchewan complete anything up
the middle and they weren't going to give up runs.
So the only thing open to them were those wide out passes.
And frankly, did.

(29:27):
Yes.
You know.
he had one at the half.
Yeah, a nine total with crazed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was I thought it was interesting.
And I had the exact opposite, you know, reaction to the first, you know, first threedrives of the game because because Calgary was like, well, there was the interception on

(29:48):
the very first throw.
Then there was the Mills fumble on the next drive.
Then on the next drive, after they stopped them again, there was a punt and the puntreturner almost fumbled the punt out into Saskatchewan.
I was like, what's going on?
But then I was like, at the same time, the defense has already held Saskatchewan twice toonly three points.

(30:13):
They're playing fairly well, even at that stage.
then you said, Calgary just seemed to relax or something and then just play.
And they dominated from that point on.
On both sides of their line, The offensive line was giving VA so much time.
He had lines of vision to throw the ball.
That was just incredible.

(30:35):
His receivers were making catches, but he was delivering the ball right to where theyneeded to be as well.
and he was making reads, they were talking about it all game.
his eyes where he was reading and what he was looking at was wide open.
He was really impressive.
Mills was very impressive on the ground as well.
He was running very hard after that fumble and they really ran at Saskatchewan,Saskatchewan had only given up what, 56 yards or something a game before that.

(31:02):
then they only allowed those wide outs and you could see Harris just getting more and morefrustrated more and more because he didn't have time at all to make reads He just had to
quickly get rid of the ball the entire game.
So it was, it was a completely different game than the week before against Winnipeg.
and it just showed it to me.

(31:22):
It looked like, okay, this is another step for the, for Calgary.
This looks like they are.
The week before you thought, that was a whole bunch of big plays and that was happened,but you can't live and die by those.
thought Saturday's game now was much more complete and much more effective and just likewell-schemed, as you said, old man, on both sides of the ball, well-schemed and

(31:45):
well-thought out.
And it really looks like they've got some players
Now they've got a tough road is still with the next two weeks between Winnipeg at homethis week and then Montreal coming to Calgary the week after.
so they've got a couple of weeks, but they're beginning to look like a real team that youhave that the league is going to have to take seriously, which you couldn't say last year

(32:05):
and you couldn't say the year before.
yeah.
Yeah, we'll see.
I'm still not a hundred percent sold.
But I am seeing the pieces in place that maybe, they're getting some players back too,because Malik Henry is just about to, to come back.
And he's a dynamic receiver, and that can change them as well.

(32:26):
When Big Hill starts to play, although I don't think it's as desperate as it was two weeksago when they signed him, but certainly the
when he gets to play, can add something and maybe take some pressure off of the linebackerin core in spurts if nothing else.
at this point in time, they're still the most surprising.
I think going into the season, we said, you never know what you're gonna get.

(32:47):
Well, we're starting to see what you're gonna get.
And I think they're the biggest surprise to the league so far, by far.
I just want to pump VA's tires a little bit higher.
And like, so my son was watching the game with me and Damien Alford had did his like moosecelebration.
And so my kid's been doing his moose celebration all rest of the weekend for every gamefor every touchdown.

(33:08):
And VA is the one who took the time, Google researched him, figured out that's what hisnickname was at his college and was like, we're bringing this back and we're all going to
do it together.
Yep.
And you just kind of know these receivers and this O-line, like those guys are going torun through a brick wall for VA.

(33:28):
he just has such a great rapport with his players.
And it's it's nice to see VA on a team that appreciates his talent, appreciates him all ofhis off field contributions, like with his receivers and sees it and encourages it.
And he's just like, give him his flowers.
I just.

(33:48):
It's been a joy to watch.
Definitely.
And, and I got to say that there was a little bit more to that story about moose, which,which I really love them telling.
And it's even better as apparently when he went Alfred, because he's so tall and fillingout more.
But when he got to college at 18, tall and gangling and that they called him Bambi.

(34:09):
And then he had went off for a game like he did this week.
And they said, okay, you're not Bambi anymore.
You're moose.
That's good, I like that.
is good.
Yeah.
and, and I have to agree with what you said, GT about the, whatever it's going on withtheir front, seven there, they've sorted it out.
They've got the scheming right.
They were just not giving up anything.
And I, as bad as it might've been, the drop off with the Saskatchewan line, I can't see itmaking that much difference overall.

(34:35):
So they're getting their stuff worked out and I.
I said to myself, it's, it's kind of weird as a fan taking this from a fantasy point ofview, two weeks ago, whoever Calgary was playing, you wanted to take very serious
consideration to take them.
The other teams running back because that's where points were.
And two weeks later, they do not want to take anybody who's going to be running againstCalgary after what we've seen.

(35:01):
Yeah, I saw an interview with one of the defensive linemen after the Winnipeg game theywere asking him about Olivera because he started out with that great first drive in that
Winnipeg game.
he said, no, we just went to the sidelines and as a defensive line, we all sat down andsaid, we're not going to allow this anymore.
We are not allowing the run anymore.

(35:22):
And then after that,
there was no more running in that Winnipeg game either.
And so I'm wondering if that line is starting to believe in themselves as a unit andbelieve that they can stop the run.
right now it's looking very good.
How long it lasts, we don't know, but right now it's looking very
Exactly.
Well, the thing is they, they impressed me a lot more against, AJ this week.

(35:45):
Cause like MJ said there, they, had less than 10 yards rushing Brady, even though itdidn't seem like he was getting much in the way of yards, other than that first sort of
drive, he ended up with a significant number.
can't remember what it was.
It was up around 80 yards or so, and then about another 30 or 40 through the air.
as good as they did with him and shut him down.

(36:06):
They did even better this week against agent.
He's got it down completely.
And that's to tell you the truth, that's one of the things that's impressed me the mostabout Mills running so far is, especially in a game like this, I can't remember what he
ended up with.
think he was either just under or just over a hundred yards against Saskatchewan.
sorry, go ahead GT.

(36:27):
Okay.
And Saskatchewan's been torched over the last, well, last year and this part of this year.
by run games occasionally, but when they get big numbers put up against them, it's becausesomebody manages to break through like that Edmonton game last year where they had two
runs of over 50 yards a piece.
And that gave them, a hundred and some against them.
Mills didn't do that.

(36:48):
He didn't break anything wrong long.
I think he had probably 15, 18 yards was his longest, wasn't it?
But he just, but he just doesn't give anything short either.
He's good for eight to 10 yards.
You know, it's so that to me is much more impressive as a running game than one where youevery now and then break a back through and get a big score.

(37:10):
looks worse in yardage, but this is a better running game.
that's what I meant about the offensive line.
We spent a lot of time just now talking about the defensive line.
But Calgary's offensive line was also very strong in that game because Saskatchewan'sdefensive line is nothing to sneeze at by any means.
And they were not putting any pressure on VA as I said earlier at all.

(37:33):
And those guys were opening up holes.
And you've got a raw rookie starting at center, the ninth overall pick this year.
and you've got a sophomore second year guy that's starting at, right guard.
And he was a ninth overall or 11th overall last year.
So they've got two pretty fresh guys on that offensive line that's looking really solidand their American tackles the last few years have been horrible

(38:00):
So, but those two guys are back and everybody went, here we go again, but they've beenreally solid this year as well.
So something's happening, And then the other thing that I wanted to just mention is thatthere was quite a bit of talk about Trevor getting a lot of yards, also being over 400
yards and all this.
And I'm like, yeah, that's kind of false yardage and false stats.

(38:22):
I didn't think Saskatchewan was ever looking like they were coming back in that game.
Calgary looked like they had that game under control once they scored that first touchdownand they weren't cruising, but they looked like they had it under control the entire rest
of the game.
It never felt threatening.
Saskatchewan came out of the half and had a great drive to start the third quarter andscored a touchdown to get within seven.

(38:45):
And Calgary answered with an 81 yard bomb and it like, okay, no, it's done.
so it never felt like even, Saskatchewan was threatening they stopped them twice on thirdand three and they came away with no points then even when they tried to get close and add
points in case there was a tie at the end of the season and point differentials, theymissed a field goal.
So it wasn't good for the riders.

(39:09):
no, it definitely wasn't.
It was one of those games that, you want to figure out what's gone wrong with it.
But I, but I agree with you, although I wouldn't say the yards meant nothing becausethat's one was one of the things that I was going to point out too, was it was,
Saskatchewan 425 yards in, through the air, Calgary 426.

(39:29):
And then Calgary added another almost a hundred yards rushing, which Saskatchewan didn'thave.
So that's a lot of offense for a game that ended up 24, 10.
You know, that you, though you hear those yards, you're thinking it's going to be like a38, 32 shootout or something.
And it wasn't because like you said, GT, when they did allow the riders to drive on them,some they got down in close and it was deep enough in the game that

(39:52):
It didn't make sense to go for the field goals and they made those two stops.
That's what they needed to do.
You know, last week against Winnipeg, they picked two off for pick sixes.
This game, they made two stops to take six points off the board each time.
Same sort of effect.
But I think that may be beating it to death.

(40:13):
I do have one other thing.
Even when he's winning, how does,
Dave Dickinson manage to stay so friggin angry?
haha
I was watching him when they were up by whatever, was up by at least 10 or something, justripping a strip off the ref on the sidelines, And I thought, I don't know.
My experience when I was a coach was you did a lot better with the refs if you went tothem when you really saw something and then you shut up about everything else.

(40:41):
When you screamed at them that they were wrong on every play, they tend to ignore you.
Yeah, true.
is an angry man right now, it seems like.
you know who else is angry?
Trevor Harris.
I believe that.
He was complaining.
There was an interview.
He was complaining about the weather protocol policy and all this stuff and complaining,complaining, complaining.

(41:03):
And I was like, you know who's not complaining?
The away team who had to sleep in dorm rooms.
They did not complain.
They came out and played.
yeah.
I agree with that.
I wasn't sure about that interview because it was almost like it was a setup to fail forhim.
He really couldn't have said anything other than it is what it is and both teams playunder the same circumstances and we lost.

(41:30):
Basically, that's all he should have and could have said.
But to go on, did sound, even though he kept saying it's not sour grapes, it sounded likesour grapes.
I'll have to look that up.
I didn't catch that one with it.
I've been busy getting ready for my trip this first few days of this week.
So not spending as much time paying attention with it as I was, I wondered, I thought sameas everybody else was saying, you know, that that delay when Calgary wasn't prepared to

(41:55):
stay was, should have really favored the riders.
But I was saying to MJ before you came on.
I wonder if maybe just that impromptu night of having to stay at a dorm and pull togetherand, overcome adversity didn't really help Calgary out quite a bit.
Yeah, I'm not sure again.
I thought of that too, because I going into the game, I think everybody picked Calgary orno, think MJ and MJ too, both picked Calgary and, and, and I would have probably went to

(42:24):
Saskatchewan going into that game.
I probably would have went to Saskatchewan.
even going up into the game on Friday night before the delay, when I turned it on andrealized, there's a delay.
I still,
was ambivalent, but felt like Saskatchewan was going to win a very close game.
I thought it would be a low scoring, kind of the score we ended up with, but even closerin Saskatchewan would somehow win it.

(42:47):
And then I was like, I don't know, going into Saturdays, I was like, I'm not sure who thishelped.
I'm really not sure who this delay affected more.
And then it certainly, I don't know if Saskatchewan looked flat, but they just
Like or Calgary just looked ready.
I'm not sure, but certainly Calgary was seen more ready than Saskatchewan was.

(43:07):
Definitely.
It's a good thing for the show that MJ2 was on replacing you last week.
Cause that, that got the show another win in Pickham.
If we'd been here, we would have been Saskatchewan.
We'd have a little out of luck.
But anyway, as much as we love talking to those two teams, maybe we need to move on tosomeone that there's one other person here who's interested in other teams.
So let's go to the other Saturday game, which was supposed to be the only one where Ottawawas 20 at Hamilton 23.

(43:35):
sorry, 23, and a game that was closer than I expected it to be and lower scoring than Iexpected it to be.
game that the Red Blacks lost.
Like the Ti-Cats didn't win, the Red Blacks lost.
At one point during this game, my mom texted me and was me and my she she texted my sisterand I were like, what is going on with Bo Levi?

(43:58):
I was like, well, Mom, I don't know.
Good thing Kenny can catch things within a 10 yard radius because he is just overthrowingand under throwing
how do you go from playing the Argos and just like running up a score to barely eking outa win that really the Redblocks did it to themselves?

(44:18):
wasn't a good game, unfortunately.
Other than some of Kenny Lawler's catches.
the touchdown catch was incredible again, just unbelievable.
And there was a couple of other good catches throughout the game, but I agree with you,MJ.
Ottawa is, I wouldn't call them snake bit, but they just are doing consistent things tolose games.

(44:42):
I spoke with my brother who is a season ticket holder in Ottawa.
He's not a Red Blacks fan, but he's a season ticket holder.
And he was like, I don't get how much longer can we go with this coaching?
And I said, well, I think if they lose and I expect them to lose again on Saturday,they're going into a buy.

(45:02):
And then it's like they just continue to make mistakes that like rookie head coaches androokie coaching staffs make.
And three years later, a head coach like Bob Dyce shouldn't be making those mistakes anddoing things and allowing his team to make.
to be still taking those penalties.
He hasn't established like, Corey Mace taking over saying we're not doing that anymore,just like stuff like that.

(45:25):
And he, and they just continue to shoot themselves in the foot one game after game aftergame.
And I can't see him, you know, they go into a buy after this weekend.
And I would be very surprised if he's still a coach after this weekend.
Well, and we like railed on Tommy Condell last week and my point still stands, like hejust had, can not make adjustments fast enough or well enough.

(45:48):
you should be utilizing Lewis.
Yeah, like Lewis should be utilized better, but not throw to him three times in a row.
I'm like, you can't throw to Lewis three times in a row.
Like third one was an interception.
I'm like, cause they know what you're doing.
Yes.
Yes.
And you've got a player like Pimpleton who's, who's doing punting now too, but still givesyou a very good chance at a good yardage.

(46:11):
And you give him what I think two throws for three yards, couple of short things that hegets the time to do anything.
No, I, agree with that.
mean, one of the notes that I made is I said to myself at the time, part of both thebeauty and the most annoying thing about football.
is it's basically chess, but you play with human pieces that don't do what they'resupposed to some of the time.

(46:35):
There was so much of that game that could have been really good if they executed.
There were parts of it that were well played and well called, but it was just...
I don't know if the teams were off or what they were doing.
I also thought...
No.
Jump in, MJ.
the power ranking and I was like, they didn't deserve it.

(46:58):
Like, I don't think they deserved it based on how they played.
Yeah, the most interesting thing I found out about during that game, which I watched outlike 1 30 in the till 3 30 in the morning on fast forward, you know, but I will say the
one thing I learned is that it was weather related in in Hamilton too, because it was hotand sweaty and muggy and those guys must have been exhausted.

(47:23):
I did learn that there is a rule that if it's more than 35 degrees, the players don't haveto wear socks.
And I didn't know that rule before, because I'd noticed one of the guys wasn't wearingsocks.
And then they mention on the broadcast that that's a rule.
And I went, that's interesting.
And then I looked and went, there's a whole bunch of guys not wearing socks.

(47:45):
just weird little quirky rules come back again, right?
It was 33 plus humidity.
So it's probably closer to 40, if you know anything about Southern Ontario.
So yeah, I was like, it's the calf game.
Like, let's see everyone's calf game.
how nobody's wearing this.
Well, you could some people wearing it.
The Bo Levi like, cool, calm, collected, I'm from Texas.

(48:08):
Yeah.
And amazingly enough, not a lot of cramping up the way I would have expected.
Those are the games back in high school, though, when we didn't really know what we weredoing and thought salt was a good thing.
We'd be popping salt tablets all game with something like that.
Was it last year where there was a bunch of like at the beginning season a bunch of guyslike cramping and overheating and had heat exhaustion had to get carted off the field?

(48:31):
This year none of that so I think that teams are like okay this is actually how we handleheat.
They're learning.
Like I said, it doesn't have to be perfect the first time, as long as they learn on thesethings And I don't know of either of you have anything else to say.
The last comment that I had for this game is that somebody should really go to themanagement at Hamilton and explain to them that if they're looking for a receiver that

(48:54):
drops the ball consistently, they can probably get one for league minimum and save the 300K on Tim White.
my gosh.
I yelled, do not throw to Tim White in critical situations at the TV, like just screamedit.
eh it hit his hands.

(49:17):
It hit his hands.
In the end zone or whatever.
I don't know.
No, not on that one.
a gross game.
Yes.
So, so the last one, the speak and again, you know, I'll say this.
It's a weekend of football that was probably for some fans who's really good, but forentertaining football, not really.

(49:43):
Cause you know, that Hamilton Ottawa one was as close as God.
Like you said, GT about the Saskatchewan Calgary one.
It was fairly obvious after that response bomb on their first drive of the second half.
Yeah, this, I'll watch this, but I've been, I've seen enough Rider games to know how thisis going to end up.
It's just a matter.
Do we get it back within three points before we lose or do we do nothing?

(50:07):
But, then we get, sorry, go ahead.
I was gonna say, yeah, I was, as I said, watching the, because I got in late, so I hadrecorded both games on Saturday, and I didn't even get start the first game until 10.30 or
quarter to 11.
So it was 12.30, quarter to one when I started the second one.
And I was like, why am I watching this all the way to the end?

(50:28):
I could just watch it tomorrow, but I'm watching it all the way to the end.
And then Sunday, it felt the same way.
It was like, if I didn't have to watch this, I don't think I would watch this all the wayto the end,
a, that was another tough one.
Yeah.
Heck, if you were watching that time, if they'd got started on Friday, you could havewatched the same time live.

(50:48):
yeah, this next game, BC 32 at Edmonton 14 and Edmonton after looking reasonably goodagainst Ottawa and looking like they were going places.
Just, this was the most amateurish display of football I've seen in a long time, I gottasay.
It's embarrassing!
Yeah.
On both sides of the ball.

(51:08):
Just every aspect of this game was awful.
I don't want to give them too much credit or too much, a break, so to speak, because it'sEdmonton.
But I do think that there are five games into a complete rebuild with a complete new team,with a complete new coaching staff, with everything else that we've talked about.

(51:29):
they had two really good games or they had a game where we thought they were coming along,they played, as we said, a quarter and a half.
And then last week they played three quarters and that was enough.
And then you're going to see setbacks.
And it's going to be this until they, think we're into 12, maybe even 15, maybe even all18 games of the year before you can really make a judgment.

(51:51):
I've seen people already saying, get rid of...
Ford and fire the coach and move on another disasters.
I'm like, no, it's way too early for those kinds of comments.
could they have pulled Trey Ford earlier?
Sure, they could have.
But you publicly said at the beginning of the year, this is our guy, we paid him 400grand, we're not going to do what we've done before.

(52:13):
We are now all about continuity.
We're about,
not when there's no more revolving door, etc.
etc.
etc.
You cannot just pull the guy down.
You gotta let him play through it.
when they played the Redblocks though.
They pulled them out and put Cody in for two different series.
This game they just let him twist in the wind.
to hear.
Yeah, but those are just weirdness that I have no idea.

(52:34):
That's just bizarre coaching.
That's not because Trey Ford.
No, I know.
I know it's not because of Tre Ford So just interesting.
So they did that against the red blacks.
And then this time they're like, implode, please, we're just going to let you twist untilthree minutes and 42 seconds in the fourth.
He had 34 passing yards.

(52:55):
yeah, I know.
Whether they could have pulled him and then put him back in and said, okay, Trey, sit andwatch for a series or two and then you're going back in.
they might've been able to do that but again, I think that's rookie coaches as well asyoung quarterbacks, right?
I don't know that they, if they had had, I don't know if they had Ryan Dinwood, if theyhad,

(53:17):
Scott Milanovic, if they had even Jason Moss behind the bench, Dave Dickinson,quarterback, quarterback coaches, that were there and were experienced, maybe they would
have been able to do that.
I just got to give them a bit of a break.
I mean, they were really bad and horrible, but I just don't think you need to throw thebaby out with the bath water as the saying goes.

(53:40):
that's true.
you've committed to what you're doing for the year.
You've got to stick with it.
It's really for that.
But that was, the offense was bothersome to me.
And you can put that down to the fact BC does have a good pass defense.
They don't give up a lot of yardage usually, but it was the defense.
There was no way they were going to win that game.

(54:01):
I rant all the time about sloppy tackling, not wrapping up, going in for the big hit.
And there was a lot of that, but it was also just positional play the way they werehandling it.
in my mind, just about every pass out there got probably twice the yardage it should have.
Things, simple things like your, your, when you need seven yards on first down or sevenyards to get a first down.

(54:22):
And you'll set up your three receivers to one side against zone, run them out, whicheverof the zone defenses drops back, you throw to him at eight yards.
Boom.
You know, you're close there.
That's a standard play.
runs every time and the defender comes up and tackles him at the eight yards.
When they ran that, they were getting 15, 20 yards out of every time.

(54:42):
There was nobody there to stop him from turning and going upfield.
Same thing with several other of the patterns that I saw out there.
Either.
there was nobody in position or they would come in and try for this great big hit andwhiff on it.
why I had trouble seeing the end of the game.
It was painful to me to watch a defense that should be good perform that badly.
Yeah, they were really bad.

(55:03):
Their defense was really bad.
Like Butler was just chewing them up, just chewing them up on the ground too.
They couldn't stop any of that either.
Ceresna with the injury and then they pulled him out, they put him back in.
How did they miss that on the sidelines?
You know, when they popped his knee in, this isn't 1985, this is 2025.
You don't pop a knee back in place and send the boy back out there, right?

(55:26):
It's like, come on.
Yeah, they should be fined for that.
does that?
Instead of maybe like a sprain or like a partial tear, that guy's fully torn somethingprobably because you sent him out there.
It's just reckless.
of your big off-season acquisitions.
You've already lost one of them to the six-game list.

(55:48):
You've got him, you've got Metchi, who was another big one.
I don't know how bad he's hurt, but he got hurt.
They're taking over for Saskatchewan on that.
Just sign a bunch of free agents and then send them straight to the rehab facility becausethey're going to end up getting hurt before the season goes.
This is a game that I get almost morally offended at.
That you can do that poorly.

(56:09):
I can understand why and the fans can be upset, but it is you just kind of got to rollwith it.
I think you just kind of got to roll with it this year hope that these decisions they madeare somewhat the right ones and that they turn it around.
Hope they learn from it.
Because it's a young team all around their defensive coordinators never been a defensivecoordinator before their head coaches.

(56:32):
They've a head coach before their OC has been around for a while, but he's called somebrilliant games and he calls some like this where it just, he seems like he has no idea
what will possibly work.
And there was a couple of things that I thought might have even changed the game.
And I turned it late into, there was five minutes left in the first quarter.

(56:55):
And I saw nothing, nothing, and nothing's happened, basically is what I saw.
And then they showed a replay of the interception by Peters earlier in that, in that partportion that I missed.
And I was like, that's a huge turning point.
if they if Edmonton had completed that pass to Dunbar and that Peters picked off it kindof wrestled it away from Dunbar at the same time that would have set Edmonton up deep on a

(57:21):
nice long throw from from Ford and the confidence factor would have been oozing and theywould have been at BC's 20 early in the game and instead they just never got it back
together after that
One of things we talked about in the first two games when we said Trey Ford looks reallybad, he wasn't moving around.
He was in the pocket all night, like they had him cemented or stapled to the pocket and hewasn't allowed to get out of it.

(57:46):
And then the last seven quarters or so that we said he looked really good, he was movingaround and throwing from angles and throwing from the side of the pocket and stretching
the defenses and so on.
he can throw from the pocket, but you can't make him throw only from the pocket, or elseyou're going to get those kind of performances.

(58:07):
the thing is he, he did well in that first drive running when the opportunities werethere.
And in fact, he did it so well that they had a spy on him and he was in those first twolong runs.
the way he was moving in the pocket, he was setting up to the, so the spy would drift toone side on him and then he'd burst out the other side and couldn't be caught.

(58:27):
So that was working really well.
Why they decided to go away from it.
it was still there to be had later.
So I'm told, I'm thinking he must've been told you got stay in there.
I don't know why you would do that.
I get baffled by it and.
well.
The other thing is I didn't think the refs had a great game in this one.
I thought that there were two penalties against the Elks that were really questionable.

(58:51):
thought the, one PI that they got, and I think they challenged it and it was still upheld,but that.
That one looked questionable to me and especially because at the end of the game, therewas a virtually identical play where Belleau came over and knocked down a pass for BC and
it was literally almost a hundred percent identical in the way that he played it andeverything.

(59:13):
No call on that.
And then I thought the Ceresna roughing the passer call was a bad one because he hadlaunched himself forward while VA was still in the back, wind up.
And yeah, he hit him after the ball went out, if he was running, I would have said hepassed too much difference, but he had literally, you could see he was, by the time the
ball left VA's hands, he was in the air heading towards his chest.

(59:35):
I would say, the refs are all for BC.
But then There was a, one of the kick returns that went down the sideline.
And after the player went out of bounds, an Edmonton player gave him a horrendous horsecollar
Never mentioned, guess the play was over then, but yeah, it was, I mean, it was one of theworst ones right back by the, name plate and just, and he went backwards and the knees
buckled, but it was all in a bit of a scrum of players as everybody's rushing to thesideline.

(59:59):
So anyway, I would have liked to see a little bit better job in the, from the officials.
I guess all I got to finish off there.
Any big, any other thoughts to talk about from here?
yeah, I have a few.
I just want to give my Jeremiah Mazzoli report to start.
His shoulder, he was off less because his shoulder was injured, but he's back and he's theshort yardage QB.

(01:00:21):
So he had three yards rushing.
Leek had two yards.
Rankin had four.
So Mazzoli was one of the top rushers.
Yeah.
Yes.
And he got touchdowns.
Or did he not?
there a short yardage touchdown out of that?
Maybe not.
know.
I don't think...
No.

(01:00:42):
Rourke's I thought Rourke scored a running touchdown, I don't think Mazzoli got over
it.
Next game, don't you worry.
Yep.
BC has a discipline problem.
That spearing call was nasty.
It was completely uncalled for.
I'm sorry, I'm gonna completely disagree.

(01:01:02):
I don't think that was that bad at all.
His arms were like this, and he went chest to chest, and his head came up and got helmetto helmet, but he went in not intentionally helmet to helmet.
So I don't consider that a spearing as what I consider spearing where you lead with yourhelmet.
Because he went in and he popped him with his arms, and his head went up.

(01:01:24):
and he got his helmet and yes, it's a penalty, but I don't consider that spearing.
think you could have caught, don't know what else you call it, but When you look at that,I don't think he led with his helmet.
That's my opinion.
I'd have to be on MJ's side in this one, because I did see it.
You can make that hit with less danger.
And the one thing that you have to do is same as any other tackle, slip your head to theside as you're making the hit.

(01:01:48):
But he didn't, he came through with his helmet right up under the chin, smashed it in.
That to me is a classic roughing penalties.
I don't know if you'd call it spearing or just roughing.
Yeah, I would have called it roughing, I don't know about the technical definition ofspearing.
would have called it like roughing.
I can see that.
Absolutely.
I don't even know what the difference is between grade 1 and grade 2 spearing.

(01:02:11):
I don't know what mean.
that team out of the water.
But this is like they started that fist fight in Montreal after the game last week.
They're blowing a team out in the fourth, nasty hit for no, like that was unnecessary.
So Buck Pierce has some issues.
The Riders had this issue too with Craig Dickinson.

(01:02:32):
When Corey Mace first came in, were like penalties constantly.
Like the ones that drive coaches crazy, right?
So work to do and man, like you are a Bo-liever I am a Tre Truther And I am furious withhow they are utilizing him.
It's like they did not watch any game film on him.

(01:02:54):
34 yards passing.
This guy can run for 80 yards a game.
He does reads when he's rolling out to the, he's, I don't know why they're making him stayin the pocket.
It's clearly not working.
Just like let him move a little bit.
And also I spent that whole game not hearing Tyrell Ford's name.

(01:03:15):
I think I heard his name once and then they showed him with Trey when they were standingon the sidelines when Tre got pulled.
And I was like,
This was a huge, signing, splashed all of this.
I don't know if he's just not playing well, if they're not utilizing him properly.
I don't know what's happening in Edmonton.
I don't think people are throwing to him.
I think they're scheming away from him at some point.

(01:03:37):
Now, can he be involved in some way?
Sure.
But I noticed it as well.
he was a non-factor and to the point where you almost forgot he was there until youfinally heard his name
Part of it is probably schemed by BC as well.
that may be part of it.
I'd have to go back and look to see how many were targeted in his area.
But he didn't have a great game.
There were at least two that I can remember and his coverage was not what I'm used toseeing from him.

(01:04:03):
The whole defense just looked completely out of sorts.
I'm not saying that anything like this happened, but that looked to me like a team thathad suddenly just before getting out to the field, something had gone wrong and there'd
been a big argument and disagreement in the locker room.
I'm not saying that did happen.
but for some reason, there just seemed to be no coherency.
They were not playing as a team at all.

(01:04:25):
right down to sort of like some of the coaching decisions and stuff too.
There were, um, so who knows?
last week after the game.
also just to like, we need to talk about the Lions a little bit.
Rorick looked good and he's got a new target I think is going to pan out quite nice of himwith Berryhill.
They had some really nice chemistry together.

(01:04:46):
Yep.
Barry Hill's becoming the deep guy.
He's got not quite as much yards as Hatcher, but he's got half the receptions Hatcher hasand more touchdowns.
he doesn't get so many looks, but he's making the most of them when they're there.
Cotoy has also been playing very nicely for them.
I thought Katoi had a terrific game.

(01:05:06):
really made it look like Katoi from two years ago and beyond, know, because he wasn'tgreat last year and he wasn't early this year, but I thought that was his best game in a
long, time.
they look like they've got some stuff.
Their, their defense confuses me because statistically it looks like they're good, butthey just, they don't feel that good to me.

(01:05:26):
it's going to be really curious to see what happens with Saskatchewan in BC this week,where it's the two starting quarterbacks, not the backups and Saskatchewan doesn't have
the home advantage.
I think I'm still going to take them because it's.
too close to call I don't have a high degree of confidence there.
next week will be seven weeks, which is officially a third of the way through our 21 weekseason.

(01:05:47):
And I feel like there's still three or four teams.
I just do not understand at all.
Edmonton is definitely one of them.
Ottawa is one of them.
Calgary I'm starting to understand, it's it's that kind of a turnaround is hard tobelieve.
And even Montreal, what happened to them after they lost Alexander?

(01:06:09):
Yeah, I didn't think there'd be as big a drop off there, and I guess that's part of whatwe'll talk about the games going forward.
I agree with you.
I think there's more teams than four that I don't understand this year.
There's like almost the entire league I don't understand this year.
Oh, that's true.
least every team has had one game that went completely the opposite of what I wasexpecting at that point in it.

(01:06:39):
All right.
So that kind of covers up.
there goes my voice completely.
That kind of covers up everything from previous weeks.
So we'll have to jump on to next week.
went, because I got overruled on the Saskatchewan game and we took Calgary.
went two and one in predictions.
Right on pace.
Yep.
There we go.
So how about this week?

(01:07:00):
We're starting with Toronto at Montreal on Thursday night.
Who wants to be brave and make the first prediction?
Go MJ, go.
Davis is back.
I'm going to say Montreal.
Yeah, I'm going to agree.
Yeah, Davis is back.
The Chad isn't.
Yeah, got to.
Friday, Calgary at Winnipeg.
Let me start this one in saying, I'm, I'm scared by Winnipeg at home enough.

(01:07:23):
I'm going to take them.
I don't know that I should.
Calgary is playing extremely well.
I would not take them if they were back in Calgary, that's for sure.
But Winnipeg at home with that crowd behind them is a different team.
to take Winnipeg by less than three.
I wouldn't give them more than a field goal.
I think it's going to be a close one, but I'll take Winnipeg.
I guess it doesn't matter what I say then.

(01:07:45):
I would have picked Calgary.
Okay, well you pick Calgary because I am keeping track of individual records for the endof the year.
See how we each do.
Yeah.
It's not just like they played really well at Stampede Bowl and Winnipeg looked awfulagainst them.
played, went into Saskatchewan who was also a top ranked in the power rankings.
We all said it like they are, they went in there sleeping on like probably twin size thincots in dorm rooms and just like came in and just ran over the riders.

(01:08:18):
So I don't know.
mean,
Winnipeg's hard because it's at home and the Bombers crowd has made that like the worststadium to play in.
It used to be Iverwind, it used to be Mosaic, now it's Princess Auto.
So I don't know.
I think it's going to be right.
I think it's going to be close.
I think it's going be close.
Again, does the belt buckle travel because maybe it's just like the vibes,

(01:08:42):
you get Calgary.
Yeah.
And actually, actually that was one thing that I forgot to mention back in theSaskatchewan game from this week that I should have The reason I thought that maybe it
didn't help Saskatchewan so much was that stadium was half empty for the game on Saturday.
There were so many people that couldn't come back.
So they really lost their home field advantage.

(01:09:02):
I don't know if that would be the difference with the timing but it's there.
we're Montreal and Winnipeg so far, Saskatchewan at BC on Saturday.
I'm going to take Saskatchewan because I can't believe they'll have two that bad a game ina row and I still have, I'm still not convinced on BC.
I'm taking Saskatchewan as well.
And I think I'm not solid, but like I said, because of the other fellow that lives in mybrain with me, I've got to honor him.

(01:09:28):
And when it's close, take Saskie.
How about you, MJ?
I think Traer Harris is really pissed off and hopefully he funnels it for good.
I don't think he's gonna like want to look silly again and so I'm gonna say Riders.
Two poor games he's had in a row though.
I was going to drop back that Calgary, yeah, that Calgary Winnipeg game.

(01:09:50):
You were saying GT, you thought it'd be like a field goal or so.
My feeling is if Winnipeg wins, yeah, it's by two to four points.
But I think if Calgary wins, they win by double digits.
Anyway, that's yeah, exactly.
But I, I thought Saskatchewan was a tough place to play.
It would have been on Friday night.

(01:10:10):
It probably would have been you're right So yeah, it's a that's a big issue a big point Ihadn't considered that home field It was almost a neutral site by the end by the time that
game was played on Saturday
Yep.
Alrighty.
And then, so we go Hamilton at Ottawa.
And I don't think I've gone, maybe I've gone first.
I will go first this time.
I'm going with Ottawa.

(01:10:31):
Well, they play for Bob and they...
me.
Ottawa is such a weird team.
They do play better at home.
There, was a, it was a closer game than it should have been.
And I think that they will stop the mistakes and put it together well enough to come upwith about a, again, a close win, three to five points, but I'm, I'm taking Ottawa.

(01:10:51):
you
Are you waiting for me or are going to go?
You want to go last?
Fine.
uh you know what?
They are both such fickle teams.
You just don't know what you're getting.
I think maybe they play for Bob one more time and again, they, you know,

(01:11:13):
It's the pink slip game and maybe they come out on his side and play well enough to win.
So I'll take Ottawa.
So is Ottawa the team that like lost badly to Edmonton?
Or are they the team that should have won a game against Hamilton who like ran like tickedup a score on Toronto?

(01:11:33):
Like this is what we're saying like these teams are it's so ridiculous.
Will Bo have two bad games in a row throwing?
I don't know.
Because he didn't play well, so what's his like usual MO?
Does he bounce back?
Is Ottawa clean up some stuff when they're at home a little bit?
I think this is like last gasp, like people's jobs are on the line and usually that scaresteams into playing well for like a couple games.

(01:12:00):
will say Ottawa, even though I will cheer for the Ti-Cats
Well, exactly.
But like you say, they're all so far up in the air because it depends if it's Jekyll orHyde for most of these teams.
It really is.
yes.
And to tell you the truth, that's the other thing that's impressed me the most probablyabout Calgary is that VA hasn't had a off game yet.

(01:12:27):
He's
I'm waiting for that one.
I know it's coming at some point.
I know it's coming at some point.
Well, you think so, but, but I think it's got a lot to do with how good that old line hasbeen playing.
If you keep him clean and comfortable back there, he will just rip you apart no matter howgood your backfield is.
And what I've seen, it's when people can get some pressure on him and like any otherquarterback he's throwing in a rush, he may make some mistakes in that, but he hasn't yet

(01:12:53):
so far.
And I can't really think of another quarterback in the league.
say that about maybe Davis Alexander although his first game wasn't really that impressiveeither so.
Yeah, the only consistent thing has been inconsistency,
Yuck.
exactly.
You know, and, and stuff, like this, this stuff with Toronto, so how are they going tofigure into anything?

(01:13:14):
Because is the Chad enough to fix them and will he ever play?
They've been saying next week for a month and a half.
You know, you know who's more important to them is Wynton McManus.
Yeah, and he'll be back.
even when Kelly does come back, it's gonna take them three or four games to get in syncwith him because it's different cadence, it's different timing for the offensive line, for

(01:13:38):
holding their blocks, moving guys out of the way because he moves differently and movesoutside more than, than Arbuckle does
it will be and the offense really the last few games hasn't been the problem.
It's really been the defense.
And so I think getting back McManus and a couple of other people on that defensive side ofthe ball will make a big difference.

(01:13:59):
And at some point in time and the fact that there's still 10 games left, you know, causeyou can win seven if you, even if you, if they can.
pull off, know, six more wins, they're going to be at seven and they're probably going tosqueak into the playoffs.
They've done it before for crying out loud.
like I said, I had, know not just call me the John snow football.

(01:14:21):
Cause I know nothing.
I don't, I can't even begin to figure stuff out.
you look at what the records are right now.
We could be back looking at it, talking about another crossover from the West to the East.
Because BC is at three and three and they're the fourth team in the West.
So.
Yep, absolutely.
I love this game, but it can be humbling.

(01:14:41):
Alrighty.
think that's pretty much Worn us out.
I've got maybe two minutes left in my voice.
So we'll, we'll wind this up.
Want to give us your social medias where people can follow you and any other closingthoughts?
No, I've got not a whole lot other than it's at GT Barnum at Blue Sky and carry on.
Have a good week.

(01:15:02):
Have a great vacation wherever it may be and we will talk next week.
Yeah, you can follow me on bluesky at sports and plants.
I'm currently making my picks for Great Cup halftime show.
Come join the conversation.
I saw that, I have thoughts.
Yeah, okay, I was actually getting to the point where I was gonna add that to my list too,of topics of conversation.

(01:15:28):
yeah, okay, we can talk about that next week, sure.
remind me to put that on there, yes.
And as far as the vacation goes, I'm going to that vacation hotbed of Cranbrook, BC.
uh
There's a lot worse places to go for vacation.
It's true.
I was telling MJ before, when we were chatting before this, couple of friends went outthere and bought themselves this huge, I call them their mansion, about a year and a half

(01:15:56):
ago.
So we're going out to finally see what it looks like and spend time talking.
This is a fellow I've known back since high school.
So it should be good.
Anyway, that's, to me, I, I'm available at, old man dash SAC on blue sky.
The whole show is the CFL outsiders.
It's on X.
I've also started out a CFL outsiders account on blue sky that we'll use to promote this.

(01:16:23):
email old man, all one word dot shouting at clouds, all one word at Shaw dot CA and.
Other than that, the usual beg stuff, please subscribe, us if you're on a podcast, leaveus some comments, all these things that gets the almighty algorithm to notice us.
Thank you for that.

(01:16:43):
We'll be back next week.
Probably just as confused as ever, but we'll do our best.
So for this week, until next week for GT and MJ, I'm Old Man saying, get the hell off mylawn.