March 5, 2025 • 35 mins
Startups, risk, and shaking up the status quo—Rose Hall knows how to make things happen. From navigating the worlds of construction and insurance to helping startups refine their ideas, she’s all about turning uncertainty into opportunity. In this episode, she shares how bridging the gap between contractors, insurers, and innovators leads to real industry change. Plus, we dive into the power of mentorship, why embracing risk is key to growth, and how to make an impact in construction without playing it safe. #WICWEEK2025
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Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Welcome to the Construction Cafe, where the buzz of the construction industry meets thewarmth of a friendly conversation.
I'm your host, Tristen Magallanes.
Join me at our virtual cafe as we explore the foundations of construction culture, sip oncutting edge concepts, and amplify the unspoken voices in our industry.
So grab a cup of your favorite beverage, pull up a seat, and let's build more than juststructures, let's build connections.
(00:33):
This is the Construction Cafe.
Welcome back everyone to the Construction Cafe.
Yet another amazing episode for Women in Construction Week.
(00:53):
And today joining me is Rose Hall.
I've known you for several years now in the industry, so I'm super excited to have you.
Rose, why don't you tell everybody a little bit about yourself and who you are?
Thanks Tristen happy to be here.
Yeah, it's been a while.
We've been in the construction innovation and technology space for, gosh, well, I'm notgonna date either of us, so a while, a second or two.
(01:17):
Yeah, so I was with Axe XL for many years.
I've spent most of my construction career at Turner and the last four years at Turner, Idid operations and then the last four years at Turner, I did risk management, which got me
into insurance.
And I spent almost the last decade at AXA XL, which is a global insurer specializing in,among other things, construction risk and construction insurance.
(01:40):
So I worked in the last five years specifically on innovation in the construction space.
So how to reduce risk and improve profitability and keep workers safe in the constructionenvironment and how that relates to the way we look at insurance and risk for contractors
and
how that helps them build their business better and protect their workers and theirprofitability and that sort of thing.
(02:01):
So I've spent most of the last 10 years doing that.
And now I am just founded my own advisory practice called RH Business Ventures.
And I'll be doing advisory for startups looking to get into either the insurance orconstruction space.
I'll be doing advisory for insurers and brokers looking to
enhance the way they address clients and help clients reduce their risk.
(02:26):
And the third pillar is for enterprises, enterprise clients that could be either acontractor or a large Fortune 500 that's looking to reduce their retained risk in a more
innovative way.
That's super exciting.
I'm really excited to hear that you started that because one, it's needed in thisindustry.
And I think a lot of people who are part of large GCs sometimes can't get out of their ownway when it comes to thinking through innovative methods and in risk specifically.
(02:53):
So also just the wealth of knowledge you bring and the tenacity with which you approachit, I think is something that's awesome and I've always admired.
So that's awesome.
And I can't wait to see what you do with that.
Thanks Tristen and actually this is the first time I have announced that Yeah, my what youready this week and I was planning to announce on LinkedIn this week.
(03:17):
So this is You know
so you'll announce on LinkedIn and then by the time this comes out and you know, like aweek and a half, that's going to be great.
And I'm so excited for you.
I think that advisory to startups in that space is really, really important and necessary.
And yeah, that's super, super
if I connect the things together, like there's a lot of people doing advisory for thestartups.
(03:40):
There's a lot of people doing innovative things with insurers and brokers and innovativethings with contractors.
But the connection between the three really helps achieve product market fit, which justelevates everybody.
Like the more startups we can get into the industry to help build these, you know, builddifferent models for the businesses.
And if you stay in one silo, then you can
(04:01):
these things move so fast, you can just kind of go down this rabbit hole of blinders.
The reason to be advising for all three is to be able to connect them togethercontemporaneously.
So if I'm working for all three at the same time, I'm creating that connection thatreally, I think, accelerates all of
That's awesome.
That's a great and you just so prime example of opportunities to come into this industryand create new roles that help our industry move forward in different ways.
(04:28):
And so this is this great perfect perfect timing.
Because part of what we're trying to highlight in the series is opportunities forspecifically women to come into this industry and what kinds of roles are out there
because I think
There's a conception that construction is either swinging a hammer in the fields or youhave to be the CEO owner of a multi-million dollar company.
(04:51):
And the options, there's not many in between, but there's a plethora of things in betweenin the middle and around.
And your role in risk and innovation with construction, I think has been fairly unique upuntil the last several years.
You created that role.
That's true.
So when I was at AXA, you know, I was a risk engineer and my job was to sit with clients,large contractors, because I came from Turner.
(05:16):
So I got all the large ones, all the large complex ones.
And my job was to help them figure out how to manage risk at the cutting edge, becausethat helps their businesses.
And of course, it helps their risk profile for insurance purposes, right?
But in the, in the about five years ago, would say five, six years ago, they startedasking questions that were, you know, yeah, yeah, we know all the normal risk stuff.
(05:38):
know what protocols you want us to do, but what's new, what is innovative and what is upwith all this technology?
There's so much out there.
10 years ago, there was no tech for construction.
Now there's just too much.
My inbox is full.
I don't know how to triage all of this, but we want to be an innovative company, but Ijust don't even know where to start.
And so, I had the idea of, well,
(05:58):
I mean, insurance companies typically don't take a role in that kind of thing.
But I saw a tie between innovation and risk.
And I said, if we can help contractors be more innovative and manage their risk at thesame time, we can help them actually reduce that risk through innovation.
So I said, let's get smart on this.
Let's be the first insurer to really, truly care about advancing the industry ininnovation.
(06:22):
And that will translate to better risk.
Right?
That was, that was the kind of idea.
And it was a leap of faith.
was like, will we become the preferred insurer if we help clients with this seeminglyunrelated topic of innovation?
And turns out the answer is yes.
So we created this role of head of innovation for construction within an insurancecompany, which was the first of its kind, as you said.
(06:46):
And we really, we were able to put a value on retaining clients, obtaining clients,
writing more insurance with the same clients and helping them reduce their risk byoffering programs that had nothing to do with risk seemingly, but were designed to help
the industry.
Yeah, I'm just thinking back.
remember because I've engaged with AXA specifically in different, I've worked fordifferent companies through my journey of engaging with AXA.
(07:14):
And early on we did a lot around, I remember like water monitoring, leak mitigation,things of that nature.
And you know, when people are creating a new startup, they have this idea of, know, I'vecreated this technology that can solve this challenge or this pain point, this problem.
I think sometimes they actually miss the risk opportunity there because they're just notknowledgeable enough about the way the industry operates and risk and the way risk is
(07:44):
shared risk or not or like how those things are even insurance policies are written aroundrisk.
And so you've helped a lot of them I think understand that opportunity.
Yeah, a lot of them come and they say, water mitigation is a great example.
A lot of companies will come to a contractor and say, we have this water mitigationsolution that will get you a lower premium because you're a lower risk.
(08:07):
And we as the insurance company are like, I'm sorry, did you, did you check with us onthat?
you?
offering discounts on insurance.
And they're like, well, we assume that you'll be a lower risk.
So your insurer should take this into account.
And I would say, you you should really talk to the insurance companies before you just gomaking promises like that.
Because some things will reduce the risk, but not eliminate it.
(08:32):
So you can't, if there's a lot that goes into the way insurance companies price a policy,it's not just premiums, there's deductibles, there's collateral, there's self-insured
retention.
There is like a whole slew of other things.
You can't just run around saying safe drivers, say 40%, right?
you
And so yeah, I've impressed that upon a lot of startups, but also what they tend to missis the customer persona is a lot of a lot of times what startups miss when they hit a
(09:01):
construction company.
just talked with one recently that said, we can turn your images into actionable insights.
And I'm like, what does that mean?
Yeah, I think I've heard that before and I'm like, what do you even mean by that?
million times.
And they're like, well, we can take your photographs and we can give you all thisinformation about what's happening on your job site.
And I'm like, well, who's your client?
(09:21):
Well, the contractor.
I'm like, no, who in the contractor is your client?
What role is using this and for what to solve what problem.
So there's a lot of this like, hey, look what I can do data wise.
And frankly, the industry doesn't care.
The industry doesn't want the data.
overloaded with data.
think concepts and dashboards and software as it is, it's...
(09:45):
Yeah.
The the the the analogy and I love this one is like, when you go to Home Depot and youlook to buy a drill, because you got to fix something in your house, and you need to drill
a pilot hole in order to put the screw in right, very simple example, where you're notreally looking, you don't really want a drill, which one is a hole.
And so you go in there and you buy a drill because what you want is a hole.
(10:05):
So when they come in, they say like, we have all this data.
Contractors don't want the data.
They want, what should I do?
What different decisions should I make as a result of this data?
And if your data doesn't directly tell them what different decision to make, it's justnoise.
It's just a drill doesn't do you any good unless you make a hole out of it.
(10:26):
It's that end user discovery that really needs to happen and identifying who that actuallyis, is the first challenge I think a lot of startups swing and miss in that conversation.
You know, they're like, well the project manager, I'm like, do you understand how aproject team works and who actually makes decisions?
(10:46):
Let's start there and then we can continue that conversation.
So, and that flows all the way back into
risk.
And I think just people don't know what they don't know sometimes when it comes to thatkind of thing.
So
here's why I get excited about helping startups, right?
Because they could have a brilliant solution, but they're addressing the market.
They're not addressing the market right.
So they don't get the client persona right.
(11:09):
Or they go to a job site and they get a project manager to absolutely love their thing.
And I'm like, that's great.
You got one project manager.
This company has 10,000 projects.
It's one company.
You're basically, and when the project's over, they're done using your solution becauseevery project is temporary.
it's like you're going door to door.
Yeah.
I mean, it's it's thankless.
(11:29):
And so I hate to see a really great idea or a really great solution get stuck trying to godoor to door and sell cookies, right?
So we're helping paper.
That's what gets me excited about helping the industry.
Because when I see something that's really valuable, and I've seen a couple that I'm like,immediately, I'm like, that is going to be awesome.
And I want to be able to help them overcome some of those hurdles and get in with thecompanies that are innovative enough to see what I see.
(11:55):
to see the potential.
Awesome.
Thinking back in your career in this industry, including all the way back to your Turnerdays, do people still, I don't know, there's a joke in the industry, I don't know if it's
even appropriate to say this, but people used to call folks from Turner, Turner Tots.
Have you heard that?
Okay.
(12:15):
sure.
And I would definitely say I was green enough to be called a Turner tot when I was there,yeah.
it's every company, like large GC, I feel like people have these little things they sayabout them.
it's, I don't know, it's kind of funny, cute, So back in maybe even your Turner days, wasthere any, were there any challenges specifically related to you being a woman that you
felt like you had in coming into the industry or maybe not?
(12:39):
I don't know.
So I did work for one other firm before Turner.
worked for Webcor and I did three projects with Webcor and all three of them my projectmanager was female.
Wow, that's awesome.
Isn't that neat?
And then let's see, when I went to Turner, yeah, I would say most of the project managerswere male.
Yeah, and most of the in-office staff were female.
(13:02):
like purchasing, estimating, some of the departments like that pre-construction, most ofthe ones in the field.
Now I did know some really great female project managers, but you
I would say by and large they were mostly male and the company was, all the EVPs weremale.
No, yeah.
Do you think having those early on projects with female project managers helped shore youup for success in the industry at all?
(13:24):
totally.
I could see myself because you want to I mean, in my mind, when you when you look to whatkind of professional you want to be, you got to take pieces from all the people that you
interact with, right?
You know, if you just say, like, I want to be a perfect version of Tristen Well, I can'tbecause I'm Rose.
So I got to be like, you know, I got to take all the little pieces and it's hard to seeyourself in future when what you see is homogeneous, what you see ahead of you is
(13:49):
homogeneous.
And so, yeah, absolutely.
There was this one at Webcor name was Cecilia Wang, and she was just a firecracker.
She just like was sweet and smart and also just fun and really got some stuff done.
I mean, she just, I was like, man, I want to run a project like Cecilia.
Yeah, that was really cool.
(14:09):
And that was my first project.
And the super was, you know, one of those typical supers who was definitely a...
a weathered construction guy, dirty boots sort of guy.
And he used to call me so green.
I was like, I don't even know what it means when you say I'm green.
And he's like, yeah, that's my point.
I mean, I was like 20 nothing right out of school.
I'd never been on a job site.
I mean, I look back and I go, I was adorable.
(14:31):
adorable would have been the word people would have used for me at that age, but yes.
I mean, I just I look back and I go how silly was I but but I will tell you a lot of thosemen also took me under their wing too.
Because if you if you look for it in the right places mentorship can come from all overand I will tell you that some of my greatest mentors have just recently in the last two
years retired.
(14:54):
So they're that age, right?
And they're and they're about they're about my dad's age and white males and
They just are some of my favorite people in the world.
And I've learned so, so much from them.
And my friendships with them just even trumps the professional relationship we've had.
I think, yeah, think it's not black and white
(15:15):
I agree.
think it's not.
Even the company I worked for my first, like I would say, major role in the industry whenI actually was 19, I started working for a company.
Definitely a lot of things I would say were not good and healthy about that company.
But the supers that I learned from in the field, all of them, despite some challengingbehaviors, brought in
(15:38):
incredible wealth of knowledge and passed it on to me.
just as simple as me, like I remember bringing cupcakes or cookies or something I bake, Iused to bake a ton in my 20s.
And I would bring it to the job site because I didn't have anybody else to give it to.
So let's take it to the field.
And we would just sit around at break time and eat cookies and I would ask what probablywere stupid questions.
(16:00):
Because I didn't even know how to read blueprints at that point.
Mm-hmm.
So I'd pull out the plans and be like, Pat, what does this mean?
And they would take the time to explain it to me.
And they wouldn't make me feel stupid or dumb for asking.
I feel like they kind of enjoyed it, actually.
100%, I will tell you that most of the boomers who are retiring, so I did this workshopabout generational differences and whatnot, and I ran this thing and I said, okay, let's
(16:28):
put the boomers over here, let's put the Gen X over here, let's put the millennials overhere, and there weren't Gen Zs in the workplace at the time, this was like four, five,
maybe five, six years ago.
And I said, let's discover around the table what you want most, like what you think youcan bring.
and what you're looking to receive.
What are you giving?
What are you receiving?
And the boomers overwhelmingly said they desire legacy, like to pass things on.
(16:55):
that's their like, so the younger generation with it, the story is that the youngergeneration wanted to receive the knowledge and the older generation just wanted to give
the knowledge.
what a beautiful intersection.
But does everyone know that?
Like we're sitting in this room discussing the fact that your desire is to learn and yourdesire is to teach.
(17:16):
Let's make that more visible to the world.
Because if we frame it that way, we don't feel talked down to and they don't feel likethey're talking down to us because we know I'm here to learn and you're here to teach.
Yeah, that's kind of beautiful.
I think there's a lot of often misconception and it's because sometimes maybe they can'tfind the right words to say the thing in the right way that the other person can receive
(17:43):
because there's different assumptions being made in generationally especially.
think there's assumptions being made about actions and I know I get reactive.
in certain situations based on, you my experiences and I have to take a step back and belike, how about maybe I approach it with a space of empathy and knowing that that that
wasn't maybe their intent.
They're trying to do something different.
They're just trying to teach me and calm, calm, calm down.
(18:06):
You know, I have to.
Yeah, assume positive intent now.
That's not always going to be the case.
I've definitely had a lot of situations where it wasn't.
And that's also true because people, people are people.
So.
Yeah, because human.
I think we've all both perpetrated and or been on the receiving end of all sorts ofdifferent things.
And it is the state of being human.
(18:29):
But I really love I would love to know more at some point about that generationalconversation.
I just I've learned so much from the older generations that I've been around, both men andwomen.
I didn't have a lot of female representation.
sort of in leadership roles or mentorship roles when I entered the industry.
So I didn't have that same experience, but I'm really glad that more women coming into theindustry now have us, like we're here and we're here to help.
(18:56):
And I love that that is the state of things for them now.
There's more opportunity here and.
I can't think of any women that I've interviewed for this series yet that isn't like aresounding yes, I would have a 30 minute conversation if somebody asked for my time.
100%.
And I love the generational discussion and the mentorship discussion because it doesn'tjust go one way.
(19:17):
think it's all, none of it's right, none of it's wrong.
I think it's all a learning expedition on worldviews, where people come from, theyexperienced in their life, what frames their worldview.
And I think that reverse mentoring is a very interesting concept too.
I look at that, I can't wait to help someone.
(19:38):
in the generation below me, figure something out that I couldn't figure out in my careeror I mean that jazzes me up and I love watching what they're doing now.
So it's very interesting.
I do some mentoring for startups and for my alumni association and I just love it whenpeople, when I hear what the problems are today and I'm like, that is on the heels of all
(19:59):
the progress we've already.
Those above us have put progress in front of us so that we can be what we are and we'vedone that for the next generation and their problems are different.
But I think overall it's getting easier.
I also get excited about that future generation coming up in the industry.
You know, at first, people talk about AI a lot and technology and robotics and all theseother things.
(20:24):
And there's a lot of fear around a lot of it that I hear from people or nervousness,right, of being replaced or becoming irrelevant.
And maybe they don't understand that that's what they're saying when they're saying it.
But that's if you really take time to listen.
That's really what they're saying.
They're scared of becoming irrelevant.
(20:44):
And I sat back recently, I was driving in my car and had that same thought of like, oh,shit, in like 10 years, I might be irrelevant.
But at the same time, I'm kind like, but isn't wasn't that kind of the point?
That's kind of the point.
I want everything to get better to the point that maybe my skill set that I learned like,isn't it?
(21:08):
isn't necessarily relevant anymore and that's okay.
It's really, I think, really hard to get there for a lot of people.
because we have an inflated sense of self-importance as humans.
And we're just not that important.
We're really not.
such a great perspective because it's true.
(21:30):
I have a buddy at work.
I get worked up about stuff at work sometimes because I just I care so much.
And I have so much passion In a call him on a Friday and it's like four o'clock and I'm alittle worked up and he's like, take the jersey off.
Go enjoy your weekend.
Yeah.
And I was like, what do you mean?
He's like, bro, it's just a job.
(21:51):
the end of the day, it's, I mean, yes, I understand there's more passion behind it thanthat.
He goes, but take the jersey off and enjoy your weekend.
And I appreciated that perspective because yes, it's important, but at the end of the day,it's also not.
Go live your life and have fun and enjoy it.
And you're not that important.
(22:12):
That's so great.
I love it.
Well, there's power in that.
Like people think that if you say like, you're just not that important, that takessomebody down.
Actually, I think there's power in that to be like, I am not that important.
That this is going to be that this is going to that my decisions are going to like, youknow, change the course of history or whatever.
I'm just not that important.
(22:32):
I agree.
I feel like it's kind of taking some power back, honestly.
It's like letting some stuff off your shoulders of like, I don't have to take all that on.
I'm not that important.
Collectively, I think we are important.
But me as a single individual human, like, I don't know, maybe I'll influence something,maybe I won't.
But I do also want to leave a legacy.
And that is by sharing stories, doing hard work of asking questions and
(22:58):
being humble about it and sometimes being a snarky, stubborn person about it too.
Like you have to sometimes do those things.
So.
I think that you're doing this podcast is contributing to that.
I think that's really cool.
so.
You know, I want to have the dirty, messy conversations that are uncomfortable sometimes.
And, know, is what it is.
(23:20):
And, yeah, that's why people listen.
That's why people show up to have the conversation is to get messy and dirty about it.
And the more we can do that, I think the better all of us become together collectively.
I've learned something from every single interview I've done.
And I've been inspired by every single conversation I've had in some way, or form.
And so it's not just a one way street, it's reciprocal.
(23:41):
And I feel most every relationship I have is reciprocal in some way.
You know, my leadership series that I've done with Scott Brown, he talks about leadingfrom behind.
It took me a long time to understand what that meant.
Because you can influence and lead without
being at the top or having this title or having all these things.
(24:03):
There's a very interesting way and perspective that I've learned from that, that sort ofhelped me let go of that self-importance piece.
Yeah.
actually my favorite version of leadership is leading through influence.
So when I took the job, when I was head of innovation for construction, I got offered theopportunity to do head of innovation for all of the Americas at Access.
(24:26):
So that would mean all the verticals, including construction, environmental, property,casualty, in the Marine, blah, blah, blah.
And there were nine verticals.
And the chief underwriting officer who gave me that role said, now, how many people do youwant under you?
And I said, well, I want representatives from every single one of those lines to beambassadors of what we're doing, of the innovation work that we're doing.
(24:49):
But I don't want them reporting to me.
And she said, well, why?
And I said, because I want them in their lines of business, in the market, in the marketwe're trying to influence.
And I want them to want to do this.
I want them to volunteer to be ambassadors, have this tertiary leadership role.
But if they report to me, I'm a siloed island trying to influence, I'm asking other peopleto try to influence the industry.
(25:16):
Now I'd rather have them in the industry and me influence that.
I don't need the kingdom of 10 or 15 people reporting to me.
I need a couple of people to help do the work, but I would rather try to influence the wayour organization innovates through inspiration.
and encouragement and motivation.
(25:39):
Look what we can be if we do this together, rather than having some big fancy title and belike, well, you're going to do this because I'm the leader and you report to me and I've
told you to do this.
It's a lot more successful that way, I think, than I might have been.
That's also just a really great way to, I think, to put it.
I think you put into words maybe something I've been trying to put into words for a whileabout like my leadership style is I don't, I feel kind of very similarly.
(26:04):
Fun question I like to ask folks for this series is,
If you were talking to Rose from your early days when you first started construction, anypiece of advice you would give her?
Well, the first thing that comes to mind is like along the lines of what we were talkingabout, you're not so, you're not so important.
The first thing that comes to mind is,
Don't take everything so seriously.
(26:26):
So I'm kind of an intense person.
People know this about me, right?
No, I am too, so yeah, I get it.
But, you know, and if it's not perfect, it's completely wrong.
Right.
So I would learn as much as I possibly could and feel like I never knew enough and feellike I was never contributing enough and that, there was this desire to prove myself both
(26:50):
to myself and to others.
And yeah, I do think that a little bit comes from being female and young in the industry.
But just being patient and knowing that you get there and you get there slowly.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Would you have listened to it?
No, I had no patience.
(27:11):
People told me that.
No doubt.
asked this question to is like, no, I would never have listened to it.
I was like, well, I think that also speaks to the journey of your career is an adventure,and you're going to learn things along the way.
And that's actually part of your history is what creates your current self.
But that's also the beauty in it.
(27:33):
So it's okay that it's not going to be it's going to be
messy and you would never have let like I would have never listened to any of this advice.
I probably got told a lot of it and I probably completely ignored most of it for whatevermillions of reasons.
But yeah, I'm a better person because I went through all that shit, right?
And a question I get a lot on these types of things is like, what would you tell others?
(27:54):
Now, what would I tell others would be say yes to everything.
That doesn't mean take on a whole bunch of work.
If somebody says, hey, are you interested in listening to this opportunity?
Are you interested in learning about this?
you interested?
know, would you?
Every single job I've taken has been something I was never, mean, well, not, let me say itdifferently.
(28:15):
The first couple of jobs I had, I was trained for, right?
Civil engineering is an undergraduate went into construction.
Okay, but the really really fun and interesting ones I got I was never trained to do I'venever trained to do risk management I did expert witness work on a construction related
litigation that lasted four years never did that before Went to work for an insurancecompany never did that before created a couple of departments and a couple of roles for
(28:36):
myself like all these things are our yeses and Did I ever think that going to school forcivil engineering would end up
being an advisor for startups in the construction and insurance space, probably not.
But I got here and it's so fun.
But I got here by saying, sure, I'll take a listen to that.
Sure, I'll take a listen to this other thing.
(28:57):
so, you know, that is something that, that I think that's that's one thing I think I didright is, even though it didn't fall in the lane of what I thought I was capable of.
I remember interviewing for the job in the
the expert witness company that I worked for a consulting company that now owned byGallagher Bassett.
And I sat there with the president and he described this project he had this thislitigation he had that I could tell by the way he was describing it he had no idea how to
(29:23):
address this thing.
And so he talks for like 20 minutes, right?
This is an interview with me, but he's sitting there talking for like 20 minutes.
And then he goes, So do you think you can project manage this?
And I go, Yeah, sure.
Absolutely.
I can I can project manage anything you need me to.
And then I walked away and I was like,
Girl, you told that man what?
But I figured it out and he knew figuring it out at the time.
But it's just like, that's cool.
(29:44):
I've never done that before.
But do I think I can do it?
I'll figure it out.
Yep.
I love that and I think more people could take heed to approaching things in that mannerof you don't have to know everything to go try to do it at all.
I mean, I look at the podcast, this podcast.
I didn't know two shits about doing this and
(30:06):
I remember I put out my first episode, I re-recorded it a million times trying to make itsound right, And I had committed, to publish for Women in Construction Week 2024 no matter
what that end result is.
I'm just going to click publish.
And I did.
And I turned off every single electronic device I had because I was terrified ofresponses.
(30:27):
I terrified.
But I turned all of everything off and I went to bed and I woke up the next day and guesswhat?
Everything was fine.
Nobody, nobody cared because guess what?
I wasn't that important.
It didn't matter.
And it wasn't because I didn't think that what I was doing wasn't important.
I do.
But like the end of the day, it's just not that, it's not the end of the world.
(30:47):
And my editing skills, yeah, yeah, my editing skills, they're gonna improve.
Me learning how to do like marketing posts.
all of that's a journey and you don't have to know all the answers to get started.
You just have to go.
And I think that's combined between the two of us.
I think that's one of the best messages is just like, you don't have to have all theanswers.
(31:11):
And guess what?
You have a bunch of people in this industry.
I forget how many people are in this industry that you can call up and ask for help tolearn.
Not only that, but the people you think have all the answers, they didn't have all theanswers either.
No, we're all making it up.
We're all making it
Google wasn't around as much when I was early on in my career, and so figuring out how todo some things took some took a minute longer.
(31:35):
But the wealth of knowledge we have at our fingertips today to figure some of this stuffout.
Also, just you try one thing, maybe it doesn't work that great.
And maybe you learn, maybe you pivot, maybe you move on.
All things are possible.
And it's not that serious.
It's fine at the end of the day.
As long as you are surrounded, would say by leadership who is okay with that and acceptsthat and sees it as a journey and a learning thing, like you'll be fine.
(31:59):
And if you're not, punt and go find other people to work with.
And I'm going to bring this full circle.
That's innovation right there is giving stuff to try not really knowing how to do it.
Being okay with failing, being okay with finding 10,000 ways how not to make a light bulb.
Um, that's, that's innovation.
And that's what jazz is me is like, it's okay to fail.
(32:20):
It's okay to not get it right.
It's okay to ask a friend.
Um, it's all okay.
Cause it's just not, just not that heavy.
It's just not that poor.
love the direction this, this episode has gone.
It's been a lot.
And this is probably the reason you and I connected immediately.
Well, we're getting close to wrapping up.
final fun thing I usually ask folks, is there any other women in this industry that eitheryou were mentored by, you learned from, or you just think are badass that you want to give
(32:47):
a shout out to?
Yeah, I want to say Cheri Hanes at AXA XL She, I know she's so great.
She, she started, she left retired about two weeks before I started at AXA and she calledme up to see what I was all about and to let me know how great the company was and the
people I'm going to be working with and whatever.
I'm thinking to myself, she's leaving and like, she was part of the founding group and theconstruction STI group.
(33:12):
And I'm thinking,
she's leaving this job.
Yet she's calling the new kid to say, welcome aboard.
And you know, I want to make sure that like, we have a connection or whatever.
She must really love her job.
So she retires, I'm saying in air quotes, because she sailed around the world for a coupleof years.
(33:32):
And then came back.
Yeah.
And then came back and said, Okay, well, that was fun.
Can I come back to AXA?
And she came back and she's still there now.
It's fantastic.
She's just like, she's a good friend.
She's an innovator and a very we learned in one of these, one of these leadership courseswhere you do you ever do the you ever do the best test it's like that Myers-Briggs,
(33:54):
whatever it's another BEST.
And we learned that we're both Bs which is bold.
So like two Bs in the whole room.
And she's from Texas and she's got a very different bold style.
than my New Jersey bold.
And I just, I've learned so much from her, her personality and the way she leads.
I really enjoy talking with her when I have an opportunity.
(34:16):
She's got great energy.
well, awesome.
I really appreciate you joining me today and taking time.
Also really excited about your RH business ventures and to learn more about that journeyas you continue to do more work in this space.
I can't wait to see what comes.
Thanks, Tristen This was fun.
Thanks for having me.
(34:43):
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of The Construction Cafe.
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(35:07):
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Let's keep building better together.
Welcome to the Construction Cafe, where the buzz of the construction industry meets thewarmth of a friendly conversation.
I'm your host, Tristen Magallanes.
Join me at our virtual cafe as we explore the foundations of construction culture, sip oncutting edge concepts, and amplify the unspoken voices in our industry.
So grab a cup of your favorite beverage, pull up a seat, and let's build more than juststructures, let's build connections.
(00:33):
This is the Construction Cafe.
Welcome back everyone to the Construction Cafe.
Yet another amazing episode for Women in Construction Week.
(00:53):
And today joining me is Rose Hall.
I've known you for several years now in the industry, so I'm super excited to have you.
Rose, why don't you tell everybody a little bit about yourself and who you are?
Thanks Tristen happy to be here.
Yeah, it's been a while.
We've been in the construction innovation and technology space for, gosh, well, I'm notgonna date either of us, so a while, a second or two.
(01:17):
Yeah, so I was with Axe XL for many years.
I've spent most of my construction career at Turner and the last four years at Turner, Idid operations and then the last four years at Turner, I did risk management, which got me
into insurance.
And I spent almost the last decade at AXA XL, which is a global insurer specializing in,among other things, construction risk and construction insurance.
(01:40):
So I worked in the last five years specifically on innovation in the construction space.
So how to reduce risk and improve profitability and keep workers safe in the constructionenvironment and how that relates to the way we look at insurance and risk for contractors
and
how that helps them build their business better and protect their workers and theirprofitability and that sort of thing.
(02:01):
So I've spent most of the last 10 years doing that.
And now I am just founded my own advisory practice called RH Business Ventures.
And I'll be doing advisory for startups looking to get into either the insurance orconstruction space.
I'll be doing advisory for insurers and brokers looking to
enhance the way they address clients and help clients reduce their risk.
(02:26):
And the third pillar is for enterprises, enterprise clients that could be either acontractor or a large Fortune 500 that's looking to reduce their retained risk in a more
innovative way.
That's super exciting.
I'm really excited to hear that you started that because one, it's needed in thisindustry.
And I think a lot of people who are part of large GCs sometimes can't get out of their ownway when it comes to thinking through innovative methods and in risk specifically.
(02:53):
So also just the wealth of knowledge you bring and the tenacity with which you approachit, I think is something that's awesome and I've always admired.
So that's awesome.
And I can't wait to see what you do with that.
Thanks Tristen and actually this is the first time I have announced that Yeah, my what youready this week and I was planning to announce on LinkedIn this week.
(03:17):
So this is You know
so you'll announce on LinkedIn and then by the time this comes out and you know, like aweek and a half, that's going to be great.
And I'm so excited for you.
I think that advisory to startups in that space is really, really important and necessary.
And yeah, that's super, super
if I connect the things together, like there's a lot of people doing advisory for thestartups.
(03:40):
There's a lot of people doing innovative things with insurers and brokers and innovativethings with contractors.
But the connection between the three really helps achieve product market fit, which justelevates everybody.
Like the more startups we can get into the industry to help build these, you know, builddifferent models for the businesses.
And if you stay in one silo, then you can
(04:01):
these things move so fast, you can just kind of go down this rabbit hole of blinders.
The reason to be advising for all three is to be able to connect them togethercontemporaneously.
So if I'm working for all three at the same time, I'm creating that connection thatreally, I think, accelerates all of
That's awesome.
That's a great and you just so prime example of opportunities to come into this industryand create new roles that help our industry move forward in different ways.
(04:28):
And so this is this great perfect perfect timing.
Because part of what we're trying to highlight in the series is opportunities forspecifically women to come into this industry and what kinds of roles are out there
because I think
There's a conception that construction is either swinging a hammer in the fields or youhave to be the CEO owner of a multi-million dollar company.
(04:51):
And the options, there's not many in between, but there's a plethora of things in betweenin the middle and around.
And your role in risk and innovation with construction, I think has been fairly unique upuntil the last several years.
You created that role.
That's true.
So when I was at AXA, you know, I was a risk engineer and my job was to sit with clients,large contractors, because I came from Turner.
(05:16):
So I got all the large ones, all the large complex ones.
And my job was to help them figure out how to manage risk at the cutting edge, becausethat helps their businesses.
And of course, it helps their risk profile for insurance purposes, right?
But in the, in the about five years ago, would say five, six years ago, they startedasking questions that were, you know, yeah, yeah, we know all the normal risk stuff.
(05:38):
know what protocols you want us to do, but what's new, what is innovative and what is upwith all this technology?
There's so much out there.
10 years ago, there was no tech for construction.
Now there's just too much.
My inbox is full.
I don't know how to triage all of this, but we want to be an innovative company, but Ijust don't even know where to start.
And so, I had the idea of, well,
(05:58):
I mean, insurance companies typically don't take a role in that kind of thing.
But I saw a tie between innovation and risk.
And I said, if we can help contractors be more innovative and manage their risk at thesame time, we can help them actually reduce that risk through innovation.
So I said, let's get smart on this.
Let's be the first insurer to really, truly care about advancing the industry ininnovation.
(06:22):
And that will translate to better risk.
Right?
That was, that was the kind of idea.
And it was a leap of faith.
was like, will we become the preferred insurer if we help clients with this seeminglyunrelated topic of innovation?
And turns out the answer is yes.
So we created this role of head of innovation for construction within an insurancecompany, which was the first of its kind, as you said.
(06:46):
And we really, we were able to put a value on retaining clients, obtaining clients,
writing more insurance with the same clients and helping them reduce their risk byoffering programs that had nothing to do with risk seemingly, but were designed to help
the industry.
Yeah, I'm just thinking back.
remember because I've engaged with AXA specifically in different, I've worked fordifferent companies through my journey of engaging with AXA.
(07:14):
And early on we did a lot around, I remember like water monitoring, leak mitigation,things of that nature.
And you know, when people are creating a new startup, they have this idea of, know, I'vecreated this technology that can solve this challenge or this pain point, this problem.
I think sometimes they actually miss the risk opportunity there because they're just notknowledgeable enough about the way the industry operates and risk and the way risk is
(07:44):
shared risk or not or like how those things are even insurance policies are written aroundrisk.
And so you've helped a lot of them I think understand that opportunity.
Yeah, a lot of them come and they say, water mitigation is a great example.
A lot of companies will come to a contractor and say, we have this water mitigationsolution that will get you a lower premium because you're a lower risk.
(08:07):
And we as the insurance company are like, I'm sorry, did you, did you check with us onthat?
you?
offering discounts on insurance.
And they're like, well, we assume that you'll be a lower risk.
So your insurer should take this into account.
And I would say, you you should really talk to the insurance companies before you just gomaking promises like that.
Because some things will reduce the risk, but not eliminate it.
(08:32):
So you can't, if there's a lot that goes into the way insurance companies price a policy,it's not just premiums, there's deductibles, there's collateral, there's self-insured
retention.
There is like a whole slew of other things.
You can't just run around saying safe drivers, say 40%, right?
you
And so yeah, I've impressed that upon a lot of startups, but also what they tend to missis the customer persona is a lot of a lot of times what startups miss when they hit a
(09:01):
construction company.
just talked with one recently that said, we can turn your images into actionable insights.
And I'm like, what does that mean?
Yeah, I think I've heard that before and I'm like, what do you even mean by that?
million times.
And they're like, well, we can take your photographs and we can give you all thisinformation about what's happening on your job site.
And I'm like, well, who's your client?
(09:21):
Well, the contractor.
I'm like, no, who in the contractor is your client?
What role is using this and for what to solve what problem.
So there's a lot of this like, hey, look what I can do data wise.
And frankly, the industry doesn't care.
The industry doesn't want the data.
overloaded with data.
think concepts and dashboards and software as it is, it's...
(09:45):
Yeah.
The the the the analogy and I love this one is like, when you go to Home Depot and youlook to buy a drill, because you got to fix something in your house, and you need to drill
a pilot hole in order to put the screw in right, very simple example, where you're notreally looking, you don't really want a drill, which one is a hole.
And so you go in there and you buy a drill because what you want is a hole.
(10:05):
So when they come in, they say like, we have all this data.
Contractors don't want the data.
They want, what should I do?
What different decisions should I make as a result of this data?
And if your data doesn't directly tell them what different decision to make, it's justnoise.
It's just a drill doesn't do you any good unless you make a hole out of it.
(10:26):
It's that end user discovery that really needs to happen and identifying who that actuallyis, is the first challenge I think a lot of startups swing and miss in that conversation.
You know, they're like, well the project manager, I'm like, do you understand how aproject team works and who actually makes decisions?
(10:46):
Let's start there and then we can continue that conversation.
So, and that flows all the way back into
risk.
And I think just people don't know what they don't know sometimes when it comes to thatkind of thing.
So
here's why I get excited about helping startups, right?
Because they could have a brilliant solution, but they're addressing the market.
They're not addressing the market right.
So they don't get the client persona right.
(11:09):
Or they go to a job site and they get a project manager to absolutely love their thing.
And I'm like, that's great.
You got one project manager.
This company has 10,000 projects.
It's one company.
You're basically, and when the project's over, they're done using your solution becauseevery project is temporary.
it's like you're going door to door.
Yeah.
I mean, it's it's thankless.
(11:29):
And so I hate to see a really great idea or a really great solution get stuck trying to godoor to door and sell cookies, right?
So we're helping paper.
That's what gets me excited about helping the industry.
Because when I see something that's really valuable, and I've seen a couple that I'm like,immediately, I'm like, that is going to be awesome.
And I want to be able to help them overcome some of those hurdles and get in with thecompanies that are innovative enough to see what I see.
(11:55):
to see the potential.
Awesome.
Thinking back in your career in this industry, including all the way back to your Turnerdays, do people still, I don't know, there's a joke in the industry, I don't know if it's
even appropriate to say this, but people used to call folks from Turner, Turner Tots.
Have you heard that?
Okay.
(12:15):
sure.
And I would definitely say I was green enough to be called a Turner tot when I was there,yeah.
it's every company, like large GC, I feel like people have these little things they sayabout them.
it's, I don't know, it's kind of funny, cute, So back in maybe even your Turner days, wasthere any, were there any challenges specifically related to you being a woman that you
felt like you had in coming into the industry or maybe not?
(12:39):
I don't know.
So I did work for one other firm before Turner.
worked for Webcor and I did three projects with Webcor and all three of them my projectmanager was female.
Wow, that's awesome.
Isn't that neat?
And then let's see, when I went to Turner, yeah, I would say most of the project managerswere male.
Yeah, and most of the in-office staff were female.
(13:02):
like purchasing, estimating, some of the departments like that pre-construction, most ofthe ones in the field.
Now I did know some really great female project managers, but you
I would say by and large they were mostly male and the company was, all the EVPs weremale.
No, yeah.
Do you think having those early on projects with female project managers helped shore youup for success in the industry at all?
(13:24):
totally.
I could see myself because you want to I mean, in my mind, when you when you look to whatkind of professional you want to be, you got to take pieces from all the people that you
interact with, right?
You know, if you just say, like, I want to be a perfect version of Tristen Well, I can'tbecause I'm Rose.
So I got to be like, you know, I got to take all the little pieces and it's hard to seeyourself in future when what you see is homogeneous, what you see ahead of you is
(13:49):
homogeneous.
And so, yeah, absolutely.
There was this one at Webcor name was Cecilia Wang, and she was just a firecracker.
She just like was sweet and smart and also just fun and really got some stuff done.
I mean, she just, I was like, man, I want to run a project like Cecilia.
Yeah, that was really cool.
(14:09):
And that was my first project.
And the super was, you know, one of those typical supers who was definitely a...
a weathered construction guy, dirty boots sort of guy.
And he used to call me so green.
I was like, I don't even know what it means when you say I'm green.
And he's like, yeah, that's my point.
I mean, I was like 20 nothing right out of school.
I'd never been on a job site.
I mean, I look back and I go, I was adorable.
(14:31):
adorable would have been the word people would have used for me at that age, but yes.
I mean, I just I look back and I go how silly was I but but I will tell you a lot of thosemen also took me under their wing too.
Because if you if you look for it in the right places mentorship can come from all overand I will tell you that some of my greatest mentors have just recently in the last two
years retired.
(14:54):
So they're that age, right?
And they're and they're about they're about my dad's age and white males and
They just are some of my favorite people in the world.
And I've learned so, so much from them.
And my friendships with them just even trumps the professional relationship we've had.
I think, yeah, think it's not black and white
(15:15):
I agree.
think it's not.
Even the company I worked for my first, like I would say, major role in the industry whenI actually was 19, I started working for a company.
Definitely a lot of things I would say were not good and healthy about that company.
But the supers that I learned from in the field, all of them, despite some challengingbehaviors, brought in
(15:38):
incredible wealth of knowledge and passed it on to me.
just as simple as me, like I remember bringing cupcakes or cookies or something I bake, Iused to bake a ton in my 20s.
And I would bring it to the job site because I didn't have anybody else to give it to.
So let's take it to the field.
And we would just sit around at break time and eat cookies and I would ask what probablywere stupid questions.
(16:00):
Because I didn't even know how to read blueprints at that point.
Mm-hmm.
So I'd pull out the plans and be like, Pat, what does this mean?
And they would take the time to explain it to me.
And they wouldn't make me feel stupid or dumb for asking.
I feel like they kind of enjoyed it, actually.
100%, I will tell you that most of the boomers who are retiring, so I did this workshopabout generational differences and whatnot, and I ran this thing and I said, okay, let's
(16:28):
put the boomers over here, let's put the Gen X over here, let's put the millennials overhere, and there weren't Gen Zs in the workplace at the time, this was like four, five,
maybe five, six years ago.
And I said, let's discover around the table what you want most, like what you think youcan bring.
and what you're looking to receive.
What are you giving?
What are you receiving?
And the boomers overwhelmingly said they desire legacy, like to pass things on.
(16:55):
that's their like, so the younger generation with it, the story is that the youngergeneration wanted to receive the knowledge and the older generation just wanted to give
the knowledge.
what a beautiful intersection.
But does everyone know that?
Like we're sitting in this room discussing the fact that your desire is to learn and yourdesire is to teach.
(17:16):
Let's make that more visible to the world.
Because if we frame it that way, we don't feel talked down to and they don't feel likethey're talking down to us because we know I'm here to learn and you're here to teach.
Yeah, that's kind of beautiful.
I think there's a lot of often misconception and it's because sometimes maybe they can'tfind the right words to say the thing in the right way that the other person can receive
(17:43):
because there's different assumptions being made in generationally especially.
think there's assumptions being made about actions and I know I get reactive.
in certain situations based on, you my experiences and I have to take a step back and belike, how about maybe I approach it with a space of empathy and knowing that that that
wasn't maybe their intent.
They're trying to do something different.
They're just trying to teach me and calm, calm, calm down.
(18:06):
You know, I have to.
Yeah, assume positive intent now.
That's not always going to be the case.
I've definitely had a lot of situations where it wasn't.
And that's also true because people, people are people.
So.
Yeah, because human.
I think we've all both perpetrated and or been on the receiving end of all sorts ofdifferent things.
And it is the state of being human.
(18:29):
But I really love I would love to know more at some point about that generationalconversation.
I just I've learned so much from the older generations that I've been around, both men andwomen.
I didn't have a lot of female representation.
sort of in leadership roles or mentorship roles when I entered the industry.
So I didn't have that same experience, but I'm really glad that more women coming into theindustry now have us, like we're here and we're here to help.
(18:56):
And I love that that is the state of things for them now.
There's more opportunity here and.
I can't think of any women that I've interviewed for this series yet that isn't like aresounding yes, I would have a 30 minute conversation if somebody asked for my time.
100%.
And I love the generational discussion and the mentorship discussion because it doesn'tjust go one way.
(19:17):
think it's all, none of it's right, none of it's wrong.
I think it's all a learning expedition on worldviews, where people come from, theyexperienced in their life, what frames their worldview.
And I think that reverse mentoring is a very interesting concept too.
I look at that, I can't wait to help someone.
(19:38):
in the generation below me, figure something out that I couldn't figure out in my careeror I mean that jazzes me up and I love watching what they're doing now.
So it's very interesting.
I do some mentoring for startups and for my alumni association and I just love it whenpeople, when I hear what the problems are today and I'm like, that is on the heels of all
(19:59):
the progress we've already.
Those above us have put progress in front of us so that we can be what we are and we'vedone that for the next generation and their problems are different.
But I think overall it's getting easier.
I also get excited about that future generation coming up in the industry.
You know, at first, people talk about AI a lot and technology and robotics and all theseother things.
(20:24):
And there's a lot of fear around a lot of it that I hear from people or nervousness,right, of being replaced or becoming irrelevant.
And maybe they don't understand that that's what they're saying when they're saying it.
But that's if you really take time to listen.
That's really what they're saying.
They're scared of becoming irrelevant.
(20:44):
And I sat back recently, I was driving in my car and had that same thought of like, oh,shit, in like 10 years, I might be irrelevant.
But at the same time, I'm kind like, but isn't wasn't that kind of the point?
That's kind of the point.
I want everything to get better to the point that maybe my skill set that I learned like,isn't it?
(21:08):
isn't necessarily relevant anymore and that's okay.
It's really, I think, really hard to get there for a lot of people.
because we have an inflated sense of self-importance as humans.
And we're just not that important.
We're really not.
such a great perspective because it's true.
(21:30):
I have a buddy at work.
I get worked up about stuff at work sometimes because I just I care so much.
And I have so much passion In a call him on a Friday and it's like four o'clock and I'm alittle worked up and he's like, take the jersey off.
Go enjoy your weekend.
Yeah.
And I was like, what do you mean?
He's like, bro, it's just a job.
(21:51):
the end of the day, it's, I mean, yes, I understand there's more passion behind it thanthat.
He goes, but take the jersey off and enjoy your weekend.
And I appreciated that perspective because yes, it's important, but at the end of the day,it's also not.
Go live your life and have fun and enjoy it.
And you're not that important.
(22:12):
That's so great.
I love it.
Well, there's power in that.
Like people think that if you say like, you're just not that important, that takessomebody down.
Actually, I think there's power in that to be like, I am not that important.
That this is going to be that this is going to that my decisions are going to like, youknow, change the course of history or whatever.
I'm just not that important.
(22:32):
I agree.
I feel like it's kind of taking some power back, honestly.
It's like letting some stuff off your shoulders of like, I don't have to take all that on.
I'm not that important.
Collectively, I think we are important.
But me as a single individual human, like, I don't know, maybe I'll influence something,maybe I won't.
But I do also want to leave a legacy.
And that is by sharing stories, doing hard work of asking questions and
(22:58):
being humble about it and sometimes being a snarky, stubborn person about it too.
Like you have to sometimes do those things.
So.
I think that you're doing this podcast is contributing to that.
I think that's really cool.
so.
You know, I want to have the dirty, messy conversations that are uncomfortable sometimes.
And, know, is what it is.
(23:20):
And, yeah, that's why people listen.
That's why people show up to have the conversation is to get messy and dirty about it.
And the more we can do that, I think the better all of us become together collectively.
I've learned something from every single interview I've done.
And I've been inspired by every single conversation I've had in some way, or form.
And so it's not just a one way street, it's reciprocal.
(23:41):
And I feel most every relationship I have is reciprocal in some way.
You know, my leadership series that I've done with Scott Brown, he talks about leadingfrom behind.
It took me a long time to understand what that meant.
Because you can influence and lead without
being at the top or having this title or having all these things.
(24:03):
There's a very interesting way and perspective that I've learned from that, that sort ofhelped me let go of that self-importance piece.
Yeah.
actually my favorite version of leadership is leading through influence.
So when I took the job, when I was head of innovation for construction, I got offered theopportunity to do head of innovation for all of the Americas at Access.
(24:26):
So that would mean all the verticals, including construction, environmental, property,casualty, in the Marine, blah, blah, blah.
And there were nine verticals.
And the chief underwriting officer who gave me that role said, now, how many people do youwant under you?
And I said, well, I want representatives from every single one of those lines to beambassadors of what we're doing, of the innovation work that we're doing.
(24:49):
But I don't want them reporting to me.
And she said, well, why?
And I said, because I want them in their lines of business, in the market, in the marketwe're trying to influence.
And I want them to want to do this.
I want them to volunteer to be ambassadors, have this tertiary leadership role.
But if they report to me, I'm a siloed island trying to influence, I'm asking other peopleto try to influence the industry.
(25:16):
Now I'd rather have them in the industry and me influence that.
I don't need the kingdom of 10 or 15 people reporting to me.
I need a couple of people to help do the work, but I would rather try to influence the wayour organization innovates through inspiration.
and encouragement and motivation.
(25:39):
Look what we can be if we do this together, rather than having some big fancy title and belike, well, you're going to do this because I'm the leader and you report to me and I've
told you to do this.
It's a lot more successful that way, I think, than I might have been.
That's also just a really great way to, I think, to put it.
I think you put into words maybe something I've been trying to put into words for a whileabout like my leadership style is I don't, I feel kind of very similarly.
(26:04):
Fun question I like to ask folks for this series is,
If you were talking to Rose from your early days when you first started construction, anypiece of advice you would give her?
Well, the first thing that comes to mind is like along the lines of what we were talkingabout, you're not so, you're not so important.
The first thing that comes to mind is,
Don't take everything so seriously.
(26:26):
So I'm kind of an intense person.
People know this about me, right?
No, I am too, so yeah, I get it.
But, you know, and if it's not perfect, it's completely wrong.
Right.
So I would learn as much as I possibly could and feel like I never knew enough and feellike I was never contributing enough and that, there was this desire to prove myself both
(26:50):
to myself and to others.
And yeah, I do think that a little bit comes from being female and young in the industry.
But just being patient and knowing that you get there and you get there slowly.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Would you have listened to it?
No, I had no patience.
(27:11):
People told me that.
No doubt.
asked this question to is like, no, I would never have listened to it.
I was like, well, I think that also speaks to the journey of your career is an adventure,and you're going to learn things along the way.
And that's actually part of your history is what creates your current self.
But that's also the beauty in it.
(27:33):
So it's okay that it's not going to be it's going to be
messy and you would never have let like I would have never listened to any of this advice.
I probably got told a lot of it and I probably completely ignored most of it for whatevermillions of reasons.
But yeah, I'm a better person because I went through all that shit, right?
And a question I get a lot on these types of things is like, what would you tell others?
(27:54):
Now, what would I tell others would be say yes to everything.
That doesn't mean take on a whole bunch of work.
If somebody says, hey, are you interested in listening to this opportunity?
Are you interested in learning about this?
you interested?
know, would you?
Every single job I've taken has been something I was never, mean, well, not, let me say itdifferently.
(28:15):
The first couple of jobs I had, I was trained for, right?
Civil engineering is an undergraduate went into construction.
Okay, but the really really fun and interesting ones I got I was never trained to do I'venever trained to do risk management I did expert witness work on a construction related
litigation that lasted four years never did that before Went to work for an insurancecompany never did that before created a couple of departments and a couple of roles for
(28:36):
myself like all these things are our yeses and Did I ever think that going to school forcivil engineering would end up
being an advisor for startups in the construction and insurance space, probably not.
But I got here and it's so fun.
But I got here by saying, sure, I'll take a listen to that.
Sure, I'll take a listen to this other thing.
(28:57):
so, you know, that is something that, that I think that's that's one thing I think I didright is, even though it didn't fall in the lane of what I thought I was capable of.
I remember interviewing for the job in the
the expert witness company that I worked for a consulting company that now owned byGallagher Bassett.
And I sat there with the president and he described this project he had this thislitigation he had that I could tell by the way he was describing it he had no idea how to
(29:23):
address this thing.
And so he talks for like 20 minutes, right?
This is an interview with me, but he's sitting there talking for like 20 minutes.
And then he goes, So do you think you can project manage this?
And I go, Yeah, sure.
Absolutely.
I can I can project manage anything you need me to.
And then I walked away and I was like,
Girl, you told that man what?
But I figured it out and he knew figuring it out at the time.
But it's just like, that's cool.
(29:44):
I've never done that before.
But do I think I can do it?
I'll figure it out.
Yep.
I love that and I think more people could take heed to approaching things in that mannerof you don't have to know everything to go try to do it at all.
I mean, I look at the podcast, this podcast.
I didn't know two shits about doing this and
(30:06):
I remember I put out my first episode, I re-recorded it a million times trying to make itsound right, And I had committed, to publish for Women in Construction Week 2024 no matter
what that end result is.
I'm just going to click publish.
And I did.
And I turned off every single electronic device I had because I was terrified ofresponses.
(30:27):
I terrified.
But I turned all of everything off and I went to bed and I woke up the next day and guesswhat?
Everything was fine.
Nobody, nobody cared because guess what?
I wasn't that important.
It didn't matter.
And it wasn't because I didn't think that what I was doing wasn't important.
I do.
But like the end of the day, it's just not that, it's not the end of the world.
(30:47):
And my editing skills, yeah, yeah, my editing skills, they're gonna improve.
Me learning how to do like marketing posts.
all of that's a journey and you don't have to know all the answers to get started.
You just have to go.
And I think that's combined between the two of us.
I think that's one of the best messages is just like, you don't have to have all theanswers.
(31:11):
And guess what?
You have a bunch of people in this industry.
I forget how many people are in this industry that you can call up and ask for help tolearn.
Not only that, but the people you think have all the answers, they didn't have all theanswers either.
No, we're all making it up.
We're all making it
Google wasn't around as much when I was early on in my career, and so figuring out how todo some things took some took a minute longer.
(31:35):
But the wealth of knowledge we have at our fingertips today to figure some of this stuffout.
Also, just you try one thing, maybe it doesn't work that great.
And maybe you learn, maybe you pivot, maybe you move on.
All things are possible.
And it's not that serious.
It's fine at the end of the day.
As long as you are surrounded, would say by leadership who is okay with that and acceptsthat and sees it as a journey and a learning thing, like you'll be fine.
(31:59):
And if you're not, punt and go find other people to work with.
And I'm going to bring this full circle.
That's innovation right there is giving stuff to try not really knowing how to do it.
Being okay with failing, being okay with finding 10,000 ways how not to make a light bulb.
Um, that's, that's innovation.
And that's what jazz is me is like, it's okay to fail.
(32:20):
It's okay to not get it right.
It's okay to ask a friend.
Um, it's all okay.
Cause it's just not, just not that heavy.
It's just not that poor.
love the direction this, this episode has gone.
It's been a lot.
And this is probably the reason you and I connected immediately.
Well, we're getting close to wrapping up.
final fun thing I usually ask folks, is there any other women in this industry that eitheryou were mentored by, you learned from, or you just think are badass that you want to give
(32:47):
a shout out to?
Yeah, I want to say Cheri Hanes at AXA XL She, I know she's so great.
She, she started, she left retired about two weeks before I started at AXA and she calledme up to see what I was all about and to let me know how great the company was and the
people I'm going to be working with and whatever.
I'm thinking to myself, she's leaving and like, she was part of the founding group and theconstruction STI group.
(33:12):
And I'm thinking,
she's leaving this job.
Yet she's calling the new kid to say, welcome aboard.
And you know, I want to make sure that like, we have a connection or whatever.
She must really love her job.
So she retires, I'm saying in air quotes, because she sailed around the world for a coupleof years.
(33:32):
And then came back.
Yeah.
And then came back and said, Okay, well, that was fun.
Can I come back to AXA?
And she came back and she's still there now.
It's fantastic.
She's just like, she's a good friend.
She's an innovator and a very we learned in one of these, one of these leadership courseswhere you do you ever do the you ever do the best test it's like that Myers-Briggs,
(33:54):
whatever it's another BEST.
And we learned that we're both Bs which is bold.
So like two Bs in the whole room.
And she's from Texas and she's got a very different bold style.
than my New Jersey bold.
And I just, I've learned so much from her, her personality and the way she leads.
I really enjoy talking with her when I have an opportunity.
(34:16):
She's got great energy.
well, awesome.
I really appreciate you joining me today and taking time.
Also really excited about your RH business ventures and to learn more about that journeyas you continue to do more work in this space.
I can't wait to see what comes.
Thanks, Tristen This was fun.
Thanks for having me.
(34:43):
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of The Construction Cafe.
We hope you found our conversation as inspiring as your next big project.
Remember, you can dive deeper into the resources and topics we discuss by connecting withus on LinkedIn and Instagram.
Just search for The Construction Cafe.
Don't miss out on future episodes.
Be sure to follow us on Spotify, Podbean, and Apple Podcasts to keep the conversationgoing.
(35:07):
If you're passionate about the construction industry and have a story to share, we'd loveto hear from you.
Visit our website at the constructioncafe.com and drop us a note.
Let's keep building better together.
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