March 3, 2025 • 39 mins
In this episode of The Construction Café, Tristen Magallanes is joined by Chloe Smith, founder of Mercator.ai, to explore how AI and data are transforming business development in construction. Chloe shares her unconventional path into the industry, the challenges of being an outsider, and how fresh ideas can drive innovation. They also discuss shifting industry mindsets, the role of technology in opening new opportunities, and what the future holds for construction. #WICWEEK2025
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to the Construction Cafe, where the buzz of the construction industry meets thewarmth of a friendly conversation.
I'm your host, Tristen Magallanes.
Join me at our virtual cafe as we explore the foundations of construction culture, sip oncutting edge concepts, and amplify the unspoken voices in our industry.
So grab a cup of your favorite beverage, pull up a seat, and let's build more than juststructures, let's build connections.
(00:33):
This is the Construction Cafe.
Hi folks, welcome back to the Construction Cafe.
Super excited to once again continue our journey for Women in Construction Week,highlighting folks from all journeys and walks of life in this industry.
(00:57):
And we are joined today by Chloe Smith, who is the founder of Mercator.
Welcome to the show, Chloe.
Thanks Tristen thanks for having me.
Super excited.
I've known you for a couple years now.
You founded Mercator, what year remind me?
2020.
of October 2020 was when we founded it.
(01:19):
We didn't launch a product until January 2022 though.
So it's a little while.
And I think when I met actually right after we closed our pre-seed round in 2022.
yeah, I think we met at a Built Worlds event is what I remember.
And I had already switched over to my DPR role, I think at that time.
Can you tell us a little bit about
(01:39):
I think because your role is newer, a little bit unique of what you've founded.
Can you share a little bit about Mercator and what it is and what you do?
Okay, the first one is easier, the second one is harder.
What Mercator does, so we are an early project detection tool.
(02:01):
So we can detect projects throughout the life cycle of construction from conception allthe way through to post construction.
We work with general contractors, subcontractors and suppliers.
And what we do primarily is we help them fill top of final pipeline, improve their winrates.
or help them develop more work with repeat clients.
And we do that all using AI and pattern matching.
So we're able to identify opportunities that the normal human eye can't normally see whenwe're stitching all of this together.
(02:26):
So what I do, I do so many things.
Most recently, the hats that I've been wearing are investor relations as a normal CEOwould, sales.
go to market marketing.
I'm onboarding a number of team members right now.
I also play head of product at times.
(02:48):
work with my own head of product in that capacity.
Sometimes I'm straight deep in the data helping being an analyst.
I do a ton of different things.
And you have a background as a data analyst.
Like data is your jam, right?
Yes, exactly.
So my background is in data strategy and actually I didn't start in construction at all.
I actually started in marketing and advertising.
And so my journey's really meandered.
(03:10):
And I remember sitting actually in university, I sat in front of the Dean ofEntrepreneurship and I said, you know, I really want to be an entrepreneur.
I've been running, you know, small businesses and I really want to get into this.
And he gave me one look and he said, I think your career is really going to meander and Ithink you're going to find a lot of different things.
(03:31):
And I thought, okay, sure.
And so my career has gone all over the place, but I used to own a residential cleaningcompany that I cleaned new builds to pay for university.
I worked in marketing and advertising.
I worked in agriculture.
It's been all over the place.
love that though, because I think the experiences of having jumped into differentindustries teaches you different things.
(03:54):
And they're all a little bit different.
They all have their own nuances.
The skills like in the center, right, we can we can carry those from from industry toindustry to industry.
But some of those nuances that we pull from allow to show up into a new industry with adifferent perspective, perhaps, or
Just the fact that you don't know what you don't know allows you to think more in thatlike nine year old mindset of like, I'm just gonna throw this idea at the wall and let's
(04:19):
see if it sticks because I just don't have the box I'm thinking of that everyone elsealready has.
I think you've done that.
Definitely, and definitely with Mercator.
So if I can talk a bit more about in my early days of building Mercator.
So my background being as a data strategist, I worked a lot with our new businessdevelopment teams, right?
(04:40):
And it was about helping them understand new markets very quickly.
And so when I was first looking at Mercator and looking at bringing this concept of how dowe map an entire industry from the data it produces, when I was looking at all the
different industries to apply it to, we ran a market research study.
We actually spoke to a number of different industries, transportation, manufacturing,agriculture, construction, healthcare, insurance.
(05:03):
And when I was starting to dig into the construction space,
What I really started to understand was, and I was kind of shocked actually, I keptthinking like, looking over my shoulder, right?
Who else is doing this?
else is thinking like this?
And one of the things that kind of struck me was that,
because we'd all been thinking in the same box, no one had really come in and said, hey,there's a different way of doing this.
(05:28):
There's a different way of thinking about this.
So a lot of the tools that I'd seen originally kind of stand up and not quite take offwere tools where you had the industry tell you what was going on in their business.
And that, I mean, presents many challenges, right?
We want to omit information.
You know, there are certain unflattering lights that, you know, might come from past workthat we've done.
(05:50):
All telling our story, but maybe we want to tell our story or position ourselves in aparticular way and so data really strips that back in a way that Allows us to just look at
the facts and look at you know What relationships exist here and what work has been doneand work work is being done and I think that For me was kind of the aha moment after a
couple years in industry and being part of the
(06:11):
built world's community and asking around like, there anybody who looks like us?
And it coming back consistently year over year, no, nothing looks like this.
It's just a kind of that realization that yeah, we came in with a completely differentmental box that we were operating in and we're able to bring it to the construction
industry.
And I think that's really where we found that white space, frankly.
(06:32):
Yeah.
How's the reception been?
Because I often have experienced folks who come quote unquote from the outside, right, areoften not seen as of value because you just don't know, you've never done it, or you've
never swung the hammer.
That kind of sentiment, I think can exist in our industry and be challenging for newstartups who are coming into the industry.
(06:56):
what are
have there been some challenges?
I'm going to assume there have been around that.
I also look like a 14 year old girl, right?
Well, yes, I think that's another piece of it.
I've been a female startup founder in general and also in construction is challenging too.
So yeah, tell me a little bit more about that.
Totally, so you're right in many senses, right?
(07:18):
Like it took me a long time to kind of get over the fact that like I don't smell like you,I don't look like you, I don't talk like you, you know what I mean?
Like I walk into a room and everybody knows that I haven't swung a hammer before, Ihaven't been on site.
And in the early days, that was something that was really...
(07:38):
probably a big insecurity of mine, frankly.
Keep in mind, like my family's in construction, they've been in construction for over 40years, right?
But I've never been in the industry, you know, truly as a profession.
And so I think some of the things that I immediately noticed was, okay, one, I do need tokind of figure out my language and I do need to start to understand and speak the way that
(08:01):
my audience speaks, but also at the same time, there was this not
There was this really interesting novelty about, don't come from industry.
So everyone kind of had this like, when do you know that we don't know?
And so there's both angles we started kind of working towards and playing towards.
And I think that that's one of the things and one of the reasons why people find Murchitor so novel and so interesting and so unique is, okay, it's been done this way for so
(08:28):
long.
You've got.
a lot of big management tools or some folks are starting to tap into like a costar or saylike a zoom info, for example, to try and get kind of either further ahead of the
construction life cycle or contact information in a unique way.
But Mercator is kind of this.
this odd ball where we've come in and we've said, you we're creating a new category,defining a new category.
(08:50):
And so there's a real kind of uniqueness to that that people like, but then there's alsothat, wait a second, you don't sound like me, you don't talk like me.
So that's been quite challenging, just in terms of, I don't know, maybe even just learningmy own confidence.
And then not to mention that you've got little old me, right?
Who comes onto a call and I'm talking to someone who's got a chip on their shoulder and isvery confident about how they do business development.
(09:14):
that is their, that is that, and I have a lot of respect for that because that is their,that's many times their identity, right?
Like that's the value that they bring.
It's their network and their connections and how they build relationships.
And sometimes it, it,
there's that sense that what we're doing here is threatening that when in fact what we'redoing here is allowing those people to do more of what they do best, right?
(09:38):
Spending less time doing on the, like building the research and doing the research.
And so that's been also a challenge of how do we navigate that really fragile kind of egoresistance to adoption of change while still, you know,
being able to be bold and break through and really stand on our own in terms of a brandand being resource strapped, right?
(10:01):
It's not like I can just go ahead and hire a whole group of people to be the face ofMercator.
Oftentimes I need to be that face.
that's been a powerful face at times.
yeah, it's been, I mean, there's a slew of challenges, especially being female led.
Sometimes that's been a challenge more.
more a challenge than a pro and sometimes been more of a pro than a challenge.
Yeah, absolutely.
(10:22):
think I think there's there's a shifting.
I've seen shifts in the industry in the last decade, where the folks who sat firmly in thebut this is my value and you're trying to take it away.
I've started to see more openness to change.
And I think that's great.
I think you're always going to have that.
(10:44):
certain percentage of folks who just are maybe introspectively unable to make that shift.
Maybe it's more of a personal level of growth and something they need to go throughperhaps, or it could be a whole maybe structure of a way a company exists.
I'm not sure culture of a company.
You're gonna have that everywhere and you can't knock down every door, right?
It's not possible.
(11:04):
But it would be great if folks could shift that mindset to just.
not one of full adoption necessarily, but openness of curiosity to have the conversationand just start there.
It doesn't mean you're promising anything.
It doesn't mean you're necessarily going to adopt it.
It doesn't mean you're even going to believe it.
But taking the wall down and just having that conversation to start with, I think isreally, really helpful because you actually might have you being the people who exist in
(11:32):
the industry, you might have a small piece of feedback that creates value for
the industry as a whole in all these new startup products and all these new opportunitiesand tools.
So that partnership that can be developed, I think is really important and a way foreverybody's voice to be heard.
So.
that more and more too, right?
With the folks that are coming to our demos and participating within our sales cycles isthat there is that curiosity.
(11:58):
And one of the big shifts that I've started to see is with, you know, a number of keyplayers retiring out, we're starting to notice that, this revenue is held on shoulders
like ours.
Right?
Where it's a function of, okay, there's more competition in market.
There's more unknown.
There's more uncertainty.
If I can get more information in, right?
(12:20):
And I can, you know, bolster what I'm seeing and what I'm, you know, what I'm hearing withmore information, then that reduces the amount of uncertainty.
And so I'm seeing more curiosity from that perspective, which is, I mean, it's it's apromising sign for us because we're starting to see
less and less resistance.
And that's just, I mean, it's part of time in market, but it's also, think, part of thisgenerational shift that's happening.
(12:45):
do think it's it's generational and I think I might have shared in another episode thatI'm excited for the next 10 to 20 years to where potentially my skill set, I do become
obsolete.
I think I have I'm firmly hold the value that I won't be
I get excited about folks coming into the industry, whether regardless of generation whohave the skill sets to create amazing shifts for our industry.
(13:15):
I get really stoked about that.
So, and you're part of that.
coming into this industry and bringing new things and it's exciting to see and Ipersonally welcome more of it.
I do, again, get nervous.
Am I going to become obsolete?
Am I going to become less valuable?
Am I not going to have a job because I don't know how to do X, Y, Z?
So I think those are true and real things I've heard from people.
(13:39):
it's not just, know, typically that was a, I say, a cultural thing I've heard.
for field folks around newer tools and robotics and automation, and there was a lot ofnervousness and there still is a lot of nervousness of, we gonna be replaced?
I think the conversation of AI and different tools, software tools the other side of theindustry who's like, unquote, admin they have that nervousness around it.
(14:03):
Am I gonna become obsolete because of these tools?
But I don't think that's true.
It's not at all.
I think we can create and arm the next generation in construction industry with theseincredible tools to make it better, faster, stronger, more equitable, more sustainable
with these things.
We used to put nails with rocks, like, come on.
(14:27):
We changed at some point.
We can change again.
Well, not to mention that, I mean, a lot of what's coming down from an AI perspective,it's force multiplier, right?
It's about efficiencies and it's about reducing the amount of work that you're doing thatisn't complex thinking, right?
Like human beings are still so far beyond what we can do from an AI perspective.
(14:51):
And like, there's no amount of data that's going to build better relationships than whatyou can build.
I think the data just arms you with the ability to potentially build those relationshipsdifferently and faster.
It's like helping you create your playbook of conversation with your client.
That's all.
And same thing in the field too.
(15:13):
A lot of the things that we're automating that we're doing in the field are also toimprove safety, improve equity and diversity and who can do the job, right?
Like there's so many things that we're doing from just a let's remove some of the elementsthat have been barriers in the past to us either doing better work or more equitable work
(15:34):
or safer work.
And I think that that's kind of a critical, I think it's an important way to look at AI.
It's not about replacing jobs, it's about allowing the people to do the most importantwork.
Absolutely.
know, a crazy thought that comes to mind when I think of AI automation, robots, tools, allthese things.
It's like, what if, what if our work days were five hours a day and because of these toolsthat enabled us to actually enjoy life differently, wouldn't that be freaking amazing?
(16:03):
Wouldn't that be amazing if we detached this concept of a 40 hour work week because wedidn't need to, because all these tools.
enabled us to do everything just faster and go and enjoy our families, enjoy our lives,enjoy our dogs, enjoy our chicken.
What up?
I have chickens.
So I say chickens.
Enjoy my chickens.
What if that's how we looked at this?
(16:24):
Yes, we can increase productivity and we could get more done in an eight hour work week oran eight hour workday.
But what if it's just my workday is five hours now and I get to have a better life becauseof it?
So that's a fascinating shift that needs to happen from a corporate level.
And I think one of the challenges that we're going to deal with is or what we're going tocome up against.
(16:49):
I think it's maybe this next generation or one or two generations away where we reallystart to understand that quality of life for your employees is just as important as
quality of work.
work-life balance and quality of life at work.
One of the things that I'm currently studying right now is how do you prioritize makingpeople feel welcomed and belong or building belonging within your teams so that they feel
(17:20):
like they are...
better supported by the organization to live lives that are like full and enriching versusones that are simply, I'm exchanging my time for money.
And that's going to be something that I think will.
you'll start to see when it starts to become mainstream, you'll start to see some of thelarger organizations do it and then they'll be pushed back.
(17:42):
And I think there's an interesting balance right now between like we're seeing like hybridlife or hybrid work environments and you're seeing.
fully remote like we are and you're seeing fully in person and there's turmoil there.
And I don't think people have quite articulated it well enough of what that turmoilactually is, but I do agree.
think, you you've got the industrial revolution, which allowed us to, you know, automate alot of the work that we were doing.
(18:07):
We weren't working, you know, 16, 15, you know, 18 hour days.
Now we're seeing that reduce even further.
how do we start building more community?
You've got a ton of loneliness in the next generation, right?
This idea of like missing third place.
There's so many, yeah, I guess there's so many aspects of what we want out of life thatare starting to bubble up as topics of as humans, what do we wanna do with this time that
(18:30):
we have on earth?
Yeah, this reminds me of, and maybe you can share your opinion on this.
recently saw, because I do do Instagram and I sometimes get sucked into the doom scroll ofreels and stuff.
I haven't fully latched on to the other platforms, Instagram is my jam.
Maybe that tells you about my age.
And I came across a video of a gentleman who owns a a small construction company.
(18:55):
And his philosophy is everybody in his company works four hours, or I'm sorry, four days aweek, and they have three day, essentially three day weekends.
So they have 52 Fridays off a year, essentially, aside from holidays, like actuallegitimate legal holidays.
And his philosophy is that if you need to take a different day off, you exchange that day.
(19:17):
there's an expectation that you would exchange your Friday for another day.
But you essentially get 52 long weekends a year.
And so he doesn't give additional vacation days or PTO, you just exchange days around.
his employees just really love it.
It's a natural flow.
(19:39):
And it's also a sort of I respect that you're going to honor this agreement of we're goingto exchange these days, we're going to swap around hours.
But in a sense, since you get 52, three long weekends a year,
How, like to me I'm like, yeah, sign me up.
Where can I do that?
So I don't know.
It's just, I can't see large corporations doing that yet.
(20:02):
Like you said, maybe in two generations.
You know, it's interesting.
You know, one of the things that we has been so entrenched in how we operate asorganizations is that if you set boundaries and criteria and people have to meet them and
there are deadlines and we push kind of the take the stick approach, right?
That you like you get results, right?
(20:24):
And I think that something that we're almost afraid to try is what if there is leniency?
What if there is, what if we balance that more with uplifting and being more positivearound work product and work culture?
And how does that then nourish the individuals and what kind of increased capacity doesthat give them?
(20:46):
Mm-hmm.
literally, this is literally all the stuff that I'm working through right now is trying tolike, trying to learn this.
And I get, you know, the luxury of getting to apply this in a small group, because ourteam isn't, you know, very large for about 12 people right now.
And so it's kind of this amazing little hub for experimentation around how do we, it'sespecially because the stakes are high here, right?
(21:10):
We only have so much oxygen in the tank and we have so much work to
produce with so few resources.
How do we create a culture and environment that actually creates even more capacity out ofthe individuals that we have?
And the weird thing is, is that it's this concept of like, maybe we need to slow down tospeed up.
(21:30):
And that feels awkward.
is one of the things I tell people constantly and not just with small things and bigthings and the R &D projects I help lead at DPR Construction.
I'm like, I know that you want to go fast, but we need to slow down to speed up.
And that is painfully hard for some people.
It's completely against like, ardening.
(21:53):
not our human nature and that oh man We could get into a philosophical discussion of howthat is rooted in the concept of capitalism, but we don't need to go there I read too much
Karl Marx when I was in grad school.
So yes, um, now I agree It's it's it's an inherent thing.
We are taught as part of the United States culture I think I can't speak to othercountries necessarily.
(22:15):
So, uh, oh man, that's fascinating You and I will have to definitely schedule some time totalk about that offline
Or maybe we talk about it online, I don't know.
It's honestly, it's a huge part of the kind of work that we're doing right now as anorganization is figuring out like, in a really interesting perspective, a lot of my
leadership I've
kind of presenting this to them is there's this concept of working in the business ifyou're an individual contributor and a concept of working on the business.
(22:40):
And working on the business looks very different than working in the business.
In the business is a lot more about getting stuff done and how much work did you do todayand what individual tasks did you do.
But working on the business is like taking half a morning and reading a book.
Yes.
allowing your mind to percolate on ideas.
And it feels completely different, completely different than working in the business.
(23:04):
And you almost feel guilty about it.
And so that kind of dichotomy is very challenging because as a leader, how do you feellike you're producing or supporting your team when you feel like, I just sat and read a
book for two hours?
When I speak, I think that also speaks to just how, and there are some people who thrivein being those who show up and complete their checklist.
(23:27):
That's just, think some people, I think, yeah, I think that is how some people thrive andthat is how they choose and want to exist.
And I think that's okay.
Others, I think need that room and that space to be messy and have different times and.
I know I get inspired by listening to things or reading things.
(23:48):
I mass consume books, probably in a unhealthy way.
And I don't know, man.
My husband's like, we need to stop.
You need to stop buying books.
We have no room left.
I'm like, I know.
I know.
I switched to Kindle.
I'm sorry, but I'm still going to collect books.
But I think we gain inspiration that way.
(24:08):
I think that's for a lot of folks.
That's a beautiful way of how we work.
it's no different to me than when my husband's in the garage and he's just got all thesedifferent materials and he's just, he's got something in his head and he's trying to build
it.
It's that same, in his tactile way, coming up with something new is no different than mereading something that's helping me come up with something new.
(24:29):
It's just, it looks different.
And one is perceived as producing something physical and one is not perceived in the sameway.
But I think allowing space for all those things to exist is really important.
But you're right, I do feel guilty about it still.
And that's hard.
That's hard to break apart.
And I think that's where leaders with a fresh perspective that are coming up in the worldcan bring forward less guilt, less shame around doing those things and allowing it to
(24:56):
exist.
And I think that's really important, especially for our industry,
We need the seeds to grow into trees.
So I'm super, that just gets me super excited.
As somebody who is newer to the construction industry, I would say, are there any specificchanges you've noticed that could really help create equity or space for women right now?
(25:21):
You know, because I spend a lot of my time with associations and networking events andthat kind of space.
I remember I was at an event late last year and I was talking to someone and they hadmentioned that they used to get together like the association would sponsor an event that
was like, we all went to a strip club.
And I thought, whoa, this has changed.
(25:42):
Okay.
been, I have been at those by the way.
Yes.
and they must be wildly uncomfortable.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yep.
And so I think to me, that is probably the thing that I see the most when I, when I seethat there is an effort being made to bring about inclusivity.
(26:04):
That's when I'm like, damn, that's really cool.
You know, for example, the Austin AGC does a, they do a, I'm totally going to butcherthis.
A clay shoot, there you go.
And a lot of the times they noticed or in the past they noticed that a lot of women didn'tattend.
And so what they started to do was do like a intro to clay shooting kind of pre gettogether.
(26:29):
And it was anybody who felt uncomfortable or didn't know how to do it or did notparticipate would come and like learn how to clay shoot.
And I thought, that's really cool, right?
There's somebody who's thinking ahead about, hey, there are folks who this doesn't comenaturally to.
And it might just be like, you literally never shot a gun before, right?
And so those are things that kind of, I think are an interesting way to bring aboutinclusivity.
(26:56):
But I do see that a lot.
It's like, do we make safety a priority?
And I can tell you first and foremost that if you want to bring more women to the table orfolks that feel more like outsiders to the table, if you can prioritize safety, that's...
fantastic.
And I see a couple people in industry who do this.
And one of the guys that I recently interviewed, his name is Sam Dowd.
(27:17):
He's a kind of a big community steward in the Austin market.
And when I go to his events, when I go to his happy hours, he literally like pulls me inand introduces me to everyone.
And I'm like, that's those moments there.
That's when you feel like I'm joining a community that I can belong in and be a part of.
Those are the things that I feel like when I see I'm just I'm very proud and I'm veryexcited for.
(27:42):
It's moments where it's like you're very much an outsider and we are very much insidersthat I feel like this is how you don't attract more people to this industry.
This is how you make people feel like they can't be a part of this.
think you're well and going back to your point about the clay shooting that creating thatspace because they noticed you know maybe women weren't showing up specifically so we're
(28:06):
going to create this introductory class that allows people to come and gain confidence inshowing up essentially that doesn't just benefit women by the way that there's introverted
people who just are are scared and or nervous or have anxiety about social situations
and creating that safer space for people to bridge that gap to showing up then I think isreally important.
(28:31):
And it's a testament that creating equitable, inclusive events doesn't just benefit thetarget quote unquote group that you were maybe necessarily intending, it benefits
everybody.
And that's really important.
And that's such a great example.
Also, can we start having industry events that aren't just focused on very male-centric?
activities.
(28:52):
Can we all go get our nails done?
I mean, guys could benefit from a pedicure, I'm just saying.
My husband goes and gets his toes done, so.
Mine does too.
Mine does too.
I think there's opportunity to start to shift things.
And I've also noticed a decrease in some spaces, not all yet.
I think we have work to do where a lot of the events aren't.
(29:13):
as focused on drinking and alcohol and that because a lot of the newer generationsespecially, that's not their jam.
I don't drink.
And it's not for any nefarious reason other than I don't want to get a headache.
So I just, that's not the thing I do.
And I often don't want to go to happy hours because I don't want to deal with the questionof, why aren't you drinking?
Like, come on, stop.
So we can create different opportunities for folks to show up from all walks of life.
(29:38):
I think it's
That's a piece of this puzzle we're talking about and really important.
Although when people are like, well, what kind of event would you do?
I'm like, man, don't ask me that because then my brain freezes and I don't know what tosay.
Well, and I mean, and I think about it, right?
Like, because I think about the same thing, like, well, what would you do?
And like, frankly, I
(29:59):
Personally, I love to golf.
I do love these activities.
And yes, they are primarily kind of what was once kind of popular, the thing thateverybody went and did.
I agree.
I'm not a huge fan of going and going to a bar, grabbing a drink.
I don't drink.
And for the same point, I don't like waking up tomorrow morning and feeling like crap.
(30:20):
And so it's, yeah, how do we get together?
And I think that that is, I think that's a tough one to answer because of if you take ahuge step back and you look at how people get together community wise anyways, it's around
food and drink, right?
And sport.
And unless you have some other way of doing that, I think those are the natural thingsthat we come to.
(30:48):
I mean,
The AGC put on a fantastic rodeo this past year that was a smoke, like a cookout.
That was really fun.
One of the ones that we did was building, I think it was like building beds for folks thatin need.
I always love those types of events where we can go and work towards something, whetherthat be, you know, putting food on other people's tables or packaging up.
(31:13):
you boxes to donate or like, those are things where we're coming together and we're doingsomething constructive for the community.
And I see that so often as all of these construction companies are always benefiting ordonating to a benefit or something that's doing good.
And I think maybe bringing people together around those causes might be cool as well,which they probably already do.
(31:36):
Well, we can, think shifting some of the specifically conferences and events can add thatto that as an option, I think in the future.
And I know it's a bigger lift often to do that kind of thing.
It's so much easier to just say, you know, we're going to have a happy hour and we'regoing to pick up the bar tab.
But maybe we start to add and I've seen some of these things start to pop up here andthere.
I know I remember the Green Build Conference, one of their options on the show floor.
(32:00):
was to go and help, I wanna say they were packaging like food boxes or something of thatnature.
And you could just go and spend 30 minutes doing that at the conference and just putting alittle bit of volunteer time in.
And I thought that was really cool as an option that they offered.
I have never seen that before at a conference where there's this like mini volunteer gettogether option.
(32:23):
And it breaks eyes.
Well, you never know what conversations are gonna happen when you're doing those kinds ofthings, I think, differently.
So you mentioned that you talked with Sam Dowd and that's on your Future of Constructionpodcast.
That's newer, right?
It is.
Yeah.
We don't have like a set cadence.
I basically just, whenever I get to meet someone who I think is particularly interestingor would want to understand their perspective or their, just their views on change,
(32:50):
honestly, and how they're stewarding change and construction, we'll book a podcast roomand, and get together and talk about it.
And to me, I get to learn so much through those conversations because I get to see thechallenges that they deal with.
And
you know, how they've approached them in really creative ways.
so, and the topics have ranged from all over, right?
(33:12):
Like some of them were about organizational change.
Some of them were about, you know, how to be more inclusive in the work environment.
Some of them have been about just like how specific cities have changed over time.
It's been a really interesting outlet for me to just.
learn about how we're thinking about change in the construction industry.
(33:33):
That's cool.
What platforms do you publish your podcast on?
so I think we're I think we're on all of them.
I mean, I personally listen on Spotify or but we're on Apple.
We're on all the different podcast channels.
Yeah.
So would encourage folks to go check that out.
I definitely want to check it out.
Just to reach the final wrap up, this is a fun question I would really love to askeverybody is, are there any women in this industry right now that you want to give a shout
(33:59):
out to that are just badass women or somebody who's helped you, mentored you, or justamazing?
in general.
I've got a few, you are one of them by the way.
I know we seldomly chat, but when you and I first connected at Built Worlds, you hadtalked about the work that you do for young women and just getting them used to using
(34:21):
tools and using power tools and getting them involved in construction.
And as someone who is a maker and has had to learn all of those tools on my own and feeluncomfortable walking into a...
Bay that has like all these different woodworking tools and welding equipment And notknowing you know having to be brave and asking how do I use this like that's?
(34:44):
Super cool, dude.
I am so I'm still in awe that you do that and I think that that's really impressivebecause it gives a lot of confidence to young women and I think that's the big part is
like you can do it too.
It's not just something that's
you know, reserved for a particular gender or type of person.
I also, a big shout out to Mallory Brody.
(35:06):
She is...
has always been a great mentor of ours.
She's one of our investors, also just just the ability to tap into her and Lauren's brainhas been really neat as growing our startup.
So that's always been a big one.
And then I've got a couple of ladies back home here in Canada,
Carly Gilcher, think is our last name.
(35:27):
I'm always terrible with last names, but she worked at Clark Builders and she was one ofmy first customers and She was the one that really opened up my eyes to an Amy that's her
name but both of them really opened up my eyes to the fact that as women We have toapproach things differently
in business development because we may not be the person that somebody calls up on aSaturday morning because we may not be in that circle and And as a result, how do you kind
(35:51):
of systematically build those relationships and bring value when maybe your relationshipwith the industry slightly different?
And those two women specifically have really helped kind of open my eyes to different waysand actually influenced how our product was developed in order to enable that kind of
analysis and that kind of.
(36:13):
Yeah, and so, and that's where I think it's fascinating, know, I get a lot of, andMercator was never built for this, is built to kind of reduce key person risk within the
organization and bring those relationships back to the organization.
But the fact that
a lot of our female users are the almost exclusively our super users because they're usingit from a completely different angle than we had built the product from is fascinating to
(36:38):
me.
Yeah.
They're the ones that are able to, they're using it from the perspective of like, okay,I've got to find a different way in.
And I'm a rock climber, right?
I watched guys come to the gym and they can climb similar climbs to, you know, somebodywho's been climbing for, you know, five years.
And, and it's all, you know, upper body strength.
And then you watch us women and we don't plateau.
(37:01):
We actually have to learn.
really, you know, nuanced technique early on to be able to climb these climbs.
And I think it's very similar in this industry is we've got to find our own kind of pathand road.
And that's really fun to watch.
So
such a great analogy.
I also used to rock climb.
And I noticed that the way I had to climb was different.
(37:25):
I love that.
I'm gonna steal that one.
light?
So I've been climbing for 18 years and I've been with my husband for about 10 and a half.
And so I used to take guys like this would be a date night that we would go on, right?
And you'd watch them and they would be like grunting up the wall and like, you know, usingonly upper body strength.
And you're just like sitting back laughing because it's like climbing is all in your lowerbody and you will naturally watch them like pump out and they will plateau.
(37:54):
and then they burn out and then their arms are rock hard, they're, yep.
exactly.
us girls are like, we're like little cats because we've had to learn like such fantastictechnique.
It's uh, that was kind of rough.
differences where I can contort my body in very different ways to fit in different spaceswhere one climb is like slab leaning climbs were so much different for me than than the
(38:18):
men I used to climb with Such a great analogy.
Everything leads back to climbing.
For me, it's always been a perfect kind of mirror to my life.
I haven't climbed in years.
So I've talked, my husband and I have toyed around with getting back into it.
We have a climbing gym nearby.
Hey, if I can figure out how to do five to six hours work days and maybe I can climb more.
There we go.
(38:40):
Well, I really, really appreciate you taking the time to join me and, go check out Chloe'sfuture of construction podcast.
Go check out Mercator.
Go check out the path and the differences that the company is making for our industry.
yeah, Chloe, thanks for joining today.
I really appreciate it.
Thanks, Tristen Honestly, I appreciate the opportunity.
(39:02):
It's been awesome.
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of The Construction Cafe.
We hope you found our conversation as inspiring as your next big project.
Remember, you can dive deeper into the resources and topics we discuss by connecting withus on LinkedIn and Instagram.
(39:23):
Just search for The Construction Cafe.
Don't miss out on future episodes.
Be sure to follow us on Spotify, Podbean, and Apple Podcasts to keep the conversationgoing.
If you're passionate about the construction industry and have a story to share, we'd loveto hear from you.
Visit our website at the constructioncafe.com and drop us a note.
Let's keep building better together.
Welcome to the Construction Cafe, where the buzz of the construction industry meets thewarmth of a friendly conversation.
I'm your host, Tristen Magallanes.
Join me at our virtual cafe as we explore the foundations of construction culture, sip oncutting edge concepts, and amplify the unspoken voices in our industry.
So grab a cup of your favorite beverage, pull up a seat, and let's build more than juststructures, let's build connections.
(00:33):
This is the Construction Cafe.
Hi folks, welcome back to the Construction Cafe.
Super excited to once again continue our journey for Women in Construction Week,highlighting folks from all journeys and walks of life in this industry.
(00:57):
And we are joined today by Chloe Smith, who is the founder of Mercator.
Welcome to the show, Chloe.
Thanks Tristen thanks for having me.
Super excited.
I've known you for a couple years now.
You founded Mercator, what year remind me?
2020.
of October 2020 was when we founded it.
(01:19):
We didn't launch a product until January 2022 though.
So it's a little while.
And I think when I met actually right after we closed our pre-seed round in 2022.
yeah, I think we met at a Built Worlds event is what I remember.
And I had already switched over to my DPR role, I think at that time.
Can you tell us a little bit about
(01:39):
I think because your role is newer, a little bit unique of what you've founded.
Can you share a little bit about Mercator and what it is and what you do?
Okay, the first one is easier, the second one is harder.
What Mercator does, so we are an early project detection tool.
(02:01):
So we can detect projects throughout the life cycle of construction from conception allthe way through to post construction.
We work with general contractors, subcontractors and suppliers.
And what we do primarily is we help them fill top of final pipeline, improve their winrates.
or help them develop more work with repeat clients.
And we do that all using AI and pattern matching.
So we're able to identify opportunities that the normal human eye can't normally see whenwe're stitching all of this together.
(02:26):
So what I do, I do so many things.
Most recently, the hats that I've been wearing are investor relations as a normal CEOwould, sales.
go to market marketing.
I'm onboarding a number of team members right now.
I also play head of product at times.
(02:48):
work with my own head of product in that capacity.
Sometimes I'm straight deep in the data helping being an analyst.
I do a ton of different things.
And you have a background as a data analyst.
Like data is your jam, right?
Yes, exactly.
So my background is in data strategy and actually I didn't start in construction at all.
I actually started in marketing and advertising.
And so my journey's really meandered.
(03:10):
And I remember sitting actually in university, I sat in front of the Dean ofEntrepreneurship and I said, you know, I really want to be an entrepreneur.
I've been running, you know, small businesses and I really want to get into this.
And he gave me one look and he said, I think your career is really going to meander and Ithink you're going to find a lot of different things.
(03:31):
And I thought, okay, sure.
And so my career has gone all over the place, but I used to own a residential cleaningcompany that I cleaned new builds to pay for university.
I worked in marketing and advertising.
I worked in agriculture.
It's been all over the place.
love that though, because I think the experiences of having jumped into differentindustries teaches you different things.
(03:54):
And they're all a little bit different.
They all have their own nuances.
The skills like in the center, right, we can we can carry those from from industry toindustry to industry.
But some of those nuances that we pull from allow to show up into a new industry with adifferent perspective, perhaps, or
Just the fact that you don't know what you don't know allows you to think more in thatlike nine year old mindset of like, I'm just gonna throw this idea at the wall and let's
(04:19):
see if it sticks because I just don't have the box I'm thinking of that everyone elsealready has.
I think you've done that.
Definitely, and definitely with Mercator.
So if I can talk a bit more about in my early days of building Mercator.
So my background being as a data strategist, I worked a lot with our new businessdevelopment teams, right?
(04:40):
And it was about helping them understand new markets very quickly.
And so when I was first looking at Mercator and looking at bringing this concept of how dowe map an entire industry from the data it produces, when I was looking at all the
different industries to apply it to, we ran a market research study.
We actually spoke to a number of different industries, transportation, manufacturing,agriculture, construction, healthcare, insurance.
(05:03):
And when I was starting to dig into the construction space,
What I really started to understand was, and I was kind of shocked actually, I keptthinking like, looking over my shoulder, right?
Who else is doing this?
else is thinking like this?
And one of the things that kind of struck me was that,
because we'd all been thinking in the same box, no one had really come in and said, hey,there's a different way of doing this.
(05:28):
There's a different way of thinking about this.
So a lot of the tools that I'd seen originally kind of stand up and not quite take offwere tools where you had the industry tell you what was going on in their business.
And that, I mean, presents many challenges, right?
We want to omit information.
You know, there are certain unflattering lights that, you know, might come from past workthat we've done.
(05:50):
All telling our story, but maybe we want to tell our story or position ourselves in aparticular way and so data really strips that back in a way that Allows us to just look at
the facts and look at you know What relationships exist here and what work has been doneand work work is being done and I think that For me was kind of the aha moment after a
couple years in industry and being part of the
(06:11):
built world's community and asking around like, there anybody who looks like us?
And it coming back consistently year over year, no, nothing looks like this.
It's just a kind of that realization that yeah, we came in with a completely differentmental box that we were operating in and we're able to bring it to the construction
industry.
And I think that's really where we found that white space, frankly.
(06:32):
Yeah.
How's the reception been?
Because I often have experienced folks who come quote unquote from the outside, right, areoften not seen as of value because you just don't know, you've never done it, or you've
never swung the hammer.
That kind of sentiment, I think can exist in our industry and be challenging for newstartups who are coming into the industry.
(06:56):
what are
have there been some challenges?
I'm going to assume there have been around that.
I also look like a 14 year old girl, right?
Well, yes, I think that's another piece of it.
I've been a female startup founder in general and also in construction is challenging too.
So yeah, tell me a little bit more about that.
Totally, so you're right in many senses, right?
(07:18):
Like it took me a long time to kind of get over the fact that like I don't smell like you,I don't look like you, I don't talk like you, you know what I mean?
Like I walk into a room and everybody knows that I haven't swung a hammer before, Ihaven't been on site.
And in the early days, that was something that was really...
(07:38):
probably a big insecurity of mine, frankly.
Keep in mind, like my family's in construction, they've been in construction for over 40years, right?
But I've never been in the industry, you know, truly as a profession.
And so I think some of the things that I immediately noticed was, okay, one, I do need tokind of figure out my language and I do need to start to understand and speak the way that
(08:01):
my audience speaks, but also at the same time, there was this not
There was this really interesting novelty about, don't come from industry.
So everyone kind of had this like, when do you know that we don't know?
And so there's both angles we started kind of working towards and playing towards.
And I think that that's one of the things and one of the reasons why people find Murchitor so novel and so interesting and so unique is, okay, it's been done this way for so
(08:28):
long.
You've got.
a lot of big management tools or some folks are starting to tap into like a costar or saylike a zoom info, for example, to try and get kind of either further ahead of the
construction life cycle or contact information in a unique way.
But Mercator is kind of this.
this odd ball where we've come in and we've said, you we're creating a new category,defining a new category.
(08:50):
And so there's a real kind of uniqueness to that that people like, but then there's alsothat, wait a second, you don't sound like me, you don't talk like me.
So that's been quite challenging, just in terms of, I don't know, maybe even just learningmy own confidence.
And then not to mention that you've got little old me, right?
Who comes onto a call and I'm talking to someone who's got a chip on their shoulder and isvery confident about how they do business development.
(09:14):
that is their, that is that, and I have a lot of respect for that because that is their,that's many times their identity, right?
Like that's the value that they bring.
It's their network and their connections and how they build relationships.
And sometimes it, it,
there's that sense that what we're doing here is threatening that when in fact what we'redoing here is allowing those people to do more of what they do best, right?
(09:38):
Spending less time doing on the, like building the research and doing the research.
And so that's been also a challenge of how do we navigate that really fragile kind of egoresistance to adoption of change while still, you know,
being able to be bold and break through and really stand on our own in terms of a brandand being resource strapped, right?
(10:01):
It's not like I can just go ahead and hire a whole group of people to be the face ofMercator.
Oftentimes I need to be that face.
that's been a powerful face at times.
yeah, it's been, I mean, there's a slew of challenges, especially being female led.
Sometimes that's been a challenge more.
more a challenge than a pro and sometimes been more of a pro than a challenge.
Yeah, absolutely.
(10:22):
think I think there's there's a shifting.
I've seen shifts in the industry in the last decade, where the folks who sat firmly in thebut this is my value and you're trying to take it away.
I've started to see more openness to change.
And I think that's great.
I think you're always going to have that.
(10:44):
certain percentage of folks who just are maybe introspectively unable to make that shift.
Maybe it's more of a personal level of growth and something they need to go throughperhaps, or it could be a whole maybe structure of a way a company exists.
I'm not sure culture of a company.
You're gonna have that everywhere and you can't knock down every door, right?
It's not possible.
(11:04):
But it would be great if folks could shift that mindset to just.
not one of full adoption necessarily, but openness of curiosity to have the conversationand just start there.
It doesn't mean you're promising anything.
It doesn't mean you're necessarily going to adopt it.
It doesn't mean you're even going to believe it.
But taking the wall down and just having that conversation to start with, I think isreally, really helpful because you actually might have you being the people who exist in
(11:32):
the industry, you might have a small piece of feedback that creates value for
the industry as a whole in all these new startup products and all these new opportunitiesand tools.
So that partnership that can be developed, I think is really important and a way foreverybody's voice to be heard.
So.
that more and more too, right?
With the folks that are coming to our demos and participating within our sales cycles isthat there is that curiosity.
(11:58):
And one of the big shifts that I've started to see is with, you know, a number of keyplayers retiring out, we're starting to notice that, this revenue is held on shoulders
like ours.
Right?
Where it's a function of, okay, there's more competition in market.
There's more unknown.
There's more uncertainty.
If I can get more information in, right?
(12:20):
And I can, you know, bolster what I'm seeing and what I'm, you know, what I'm hearing withmore information, then that reduces the amount of uncertainty.
And so I'm seeing more curiosity from that perspective, which is, I mean, it's it's apromising sign for us because we're starting to see
less and less resistance.
And that's just, I mean, it's part of time in market, but it's also, think, part of thisgenerational shift that's happening.
(12:45):
do think it's it's generational and I think I might have shared in another episode thatI'm excited for the next 10 to 20 years to where potentially my skill set, I do become
obsolete.
I think I have I'm firmly hold the value that I won't be
I get excited about folks coming into the industry, whether regardless of generation whohave the skill sets to create amazing shifts for our industry.
(13:15):
I get really stoked about that.
So, and you're part of that.
coming into this industry and bringing new things and it's exciting to see and Ipersonally welcome more of it.
I do, again, get nervous.
Am I going to become obsolete?
Am I going to become less valuable?
Am I not going to have a job because I don't know how to do X, Y, Z?
So I think those are true and real things I've heard from people.
(13:39):
it's not just, know, typically that was a, I say, a cultural thing I've heard.
for field folks around newer tools and robotics and automation, and there was a lot ofnervousness and there still is a lot of nervousness of, we gonna be replaced?
I think the conversation of AI and different tools, software tools the other side of theindustry who's like, unquote, admin they have that nervousness around it.
(14:03):
Am I gonna become obsolete because of these tools?
But I don't think that's true.
It's not at all.
I think we can create and arm the next generation in construction industry with theseincredible tools to make it better, faster, stronger, more equitable, more sustainable
with these things.
We used to put nails with rocks, like, come on.
(14:27):
We changed at some point.
We can change again.
Well, not to mention that, I mean, a lot of what's coming down from an AI perspective,it's force multiplier, right?
It's about efficiencies and it's about reducing the amount of work that you're doing thatisn't complex thinking, right?
Like human beings are still so far beyond what we can do from an AI perspective.
(14:51):
And like, there's no amount of data that's going to build better relationships than whatyou can build.
I think the data just arms you with the ability to potentially build those relationshipsdifferently and faster.
It's like helping you create your playbook of conversation with your client.
That's all.
And same thing in the field too.
(15:13):
A lot of the things that we're automating that we're doing in the field are also toimprove safety, improve equity and diversity and who can do the job, right?
Like there's so many things that we're doing from just a let's remove some of the elementsthat have been barriers in the past to us either doing better work or more equitable work
(15:34):
or safer work.
And I think that that's kind of a critical, I think it's an important way to look at AI.
It's not about replacing jobs, it's about allowing the people to do the most importantwork.
Absolutely.
know, a crazy thought that comes to mind when I think of AI automation, robots, tools, allthese things.
It's like, what if, what if our work days were five hours a day and because of these toolsthat enabled us to actually enjoy life differently, wouldn't that be freaking amazing?
(16:03):
Wouldn't that be amazing if we detached this concept of a 40 hour work week because wedidn't need to, because all these tools.
enabled us to do everything just faster and go and enjoy our families, enjoy our lives,enjoy our dogs, enjoy our chicken.
What up?
I have chickens.
So I say chickens.
Enjoy my chickens.
What if that's how we looked at this?
(16:24):
Yes, we can increase productivity and we could get more done in an eight hour work week oran eight hour workday.
But what if it's just my workday is five hours now and I get to have a better life becauseof it?
So that's a fascinating shift that needs to happen from a corporate level.
And I think one of the challenges that we're going to deal with is or what we're going tocome up against.
(16:49):
I think it's maybe this next generation or one or two generations away where we reallystart to understand that quality of life for your employees is just as important as
quality of work.
work-life balance and quality of life at work.
One of the things that I'm currently studying right now is how do you prioritize makingpeople feel welcomed and belong or building belonging within your teams so that they feel
(17:20):
like they are...
better supported by the organization to live lives that are like full and enriching versusones that are simply, I'm exchanging my time for money.
And that's going to be something that I think will.
you'll start to see when it starts to become mainstream, you'll start to see some of thelarger organizations do it and then they'll be pushed back.
(17:42):
And I think there's an interesting balance right now between like we're seeing like hybridlife or hybrid work environments and you're seeing.
fully remote like we are and you're seeing fully in person and there's turmoil there.
And I don't think people have quite articulated it well enough of what that turmoilactually is, but I do agree.
think, you you've got the industrial revolution, which allowed us to, you know, automate alot of the work that we were doing.
(18:07):
We weren't working, you know, 16, 15, you know, 18 hour days.
Now we're seeing that reduce even further.
how do we start building more community?
You've got a ton of loneliness in the next generation, right?
This idea of like missing third place.
There's so many, yeah, I guess there's so many aspects of what we want out of life thatare starting to bubble up as topics of as humans, what do we wanna do with this time that
(18:30):
we have on earth?
Yeah, this reminds me of, and maybe you can share your opinion on this.
recently saw, because I do do Instagram and I sometimes get sucked into the doom scroll ofreels and stuff.
I haven't fully latched on to the other platforms, Instagram is my jam.
Maybe that tells you about my age.
And I came across a video of a gentleman who owns a a small construction company.
(18:55):
And his philosophy is everybody in his company works four hours, or I'm sorry, four days aweek, and they have three day, essentially three day weekends.
So they have 52 Fridays off a year, essentially, aside from holidays, like actuallegitimate legal holidays.
And his philosophy is that if you need to take a different day off, you exchange that day.
(19:17):
there's an expectation that you would exchange your Friday for another day.
But you essentially get 52 long weekends a year.
And so he doesn't give additional vacation days or PTO, you just exchange days around.
his employees just really love it.
It's a natural flow.
(19:39):
And it's also a sort of I respect that you're going to honor this agreement of we're goingto exchange these days, we're going to swap around hours.
But in a sense, since you get 52, three long weekends a year,
How, like to me I'm like, yeah, sign me up.
Where can I do that?
So I don't know.
It's just, I can't see large corporations doing that yet.
(20:02):
Like you said, maybe in two generations.
You know, it's interesting.
You know, one of the things that we has been so entrenched in how we operate asorganizations is that if you set boundaries and criteria and people have to meet them and
there are deadlines and we push kind of the take the stick approach, right?
That you like you get results, right?
(20:24):
And I think that something that we're almost afraid to try is what if there is leniency?
What if there is, what if we balance that more with uplifting and being more positivearound work product and work culture?
And how does that then nourish the individuals and what kind of increased capacity doesthat give them?
(20:46):
Mm-hmm.
literally, this is literally all the stuff that I'm working through right now is trying tolike, trying to learn this.
And I get, you know, the luxury of getting to apply this in a small group, because ourteam isn't, you know, very large for about 12 people right now.
And so it's kind of this amazing little hub for experimentation around how do we, it'sespecially because the stakes are high here, right?
(21:10):
We only have so much oxygen in the tank and we have so much work to
produce with so few resources.
How do we create a culture and environment that actually creates even more capacity out ofthe individuals that we have?
And the weird thing is, is that it's this concept of like, maybe we need to slow down tospeed up.
(21:30):
And that feels awkward.
is one of the things I tell people constantly and not just with small things and bigthings and the R &D projects I help lead at DPR Construction.
I'm like, I know that you want to go fast, but we need to slow down to speed up.
And that is painfully hard for some people.
It's completely against like, ardening.
(21:53):
not our human nature and that oh man We could get into a philosophical discussion of howthat is rooted in the concept of capitalism, but we don't need to go there I read too much
Karl Marx when I was in grad school.
So yes, um, now I agree It's it's it's an inherent thing.
We are taught as part of the United States culture I think I can't speak to othercountries necessarily.
(22:15):
So, uh, oh man, that's fascinating You and I will have to definitely schedule some time totalk about that offline
Or maybe we talk about it online, I don't know.
It's honestly, it's a huge part of the kind of work that we're doing right now as anorganization is figuring out like, in a really interesting perspective, a lot of my
leadership I've
kind of presenting this to them is there's this concept of working in the business ifyou're an individual contributor and a concept of working on the business.
(22:40):
And working on the business looks very different than working in the business.
In the business is a lot more about getting stuff done and how much work did you do todayand what individual tasks did you do.
But working on the business is like taking half a morning and reading a book.
Yes.
allowing your mind to percolate on ideas.
And it feels completely different, completely different than working in the business.
(23:04):
And you almost feel guilty about it.
And so that kind of dichotomy is very challenging because as a leader, how do you feellike you're producing or supporting your team when you feel like, I just sat and read a
book for two hours?
When I speak, I think that also speaks to just how, and there are some people who thrivein being those who show up and complete their checklist.
(23:27):
That's just, think some people, I think, yeah, I think that is how some people thrive andthat is how they choose and want to exist.
And I think that's okay.
Others, I think need that room and that space to be messy and have different times and.
I know I get inspired by listening to things or reading things.
(23:48):
I mass consume books, probably in a unhealthy way.
And I don't know, man.
My husband's like, we need to stop.
You need to stop buying books.
We have no room left.
I'm like, I know.
I know.
I switched to Kindle.
I'm sorry, but I'm still going to collect books.
But I think we gain inspiration that way.
(24:08):
I think that's for a lot of folks.
That's a beautiful way of how we work.
it's no different to me than when my husband's in the garage and he's just got all thesedifferent materials and he's just, he's got something in his head and he's trying to build
it.
It's that same, in his tactile way, coming up with something new is no different than mereading something that's helping me come up with something new.
(24:29):
It's just, it looks different.
And one is perceived as producing something physical and one is not perceived in the sameway.
But I think allowing space for all those things to exist is really important.
But you're right, I do feel guilty about it still.
And that's hard.
That's hard to break apart.
And I think that's where leaders with a fresh perspective that are coming up in the worldcan bring forward less guilt, less shame around doing those things and allowing it to
(24:56):
exist.
And I think that's really important, especially for our industry,
We need the seeds to grow into trees.
So I'm super, that just gets me super excited.
As somebody who is newer to the construction industry, I would say, are there any specificchanges you've noticed that could really help create equity or space for women right now?
(25:21):
You know, because I spend a lot of my time with associations and networking events andthat kind of space.
I remember I was at an event late last year and I was talking to someone and they hadmentioned that they used to get together like the association would sponsor an event that
was like, we all went to a strip club.
And I thought, whoa, this has changed.
(25:42):
Okay.
been, I have been at those by the way.
Yes.
and they must be wildly uncomfortable.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yep.
And so I think to me, that is probably the thing that I see the most when I, when I seethat there is an effort being made to bring about inclusivity.
(26:04):
That's when I'm like, damn, that's really cool.
You know, for example, the Austin AGC does a, they do a, I'm totally going to butcherthis.
A clay shoot, there you go.
And a lot of the times they noticed or in the past they noticed that a lot of women didn'tattend.
And so what they started to do was do like a intro to clay shooting kind of pre gettogether.
(26:29):
And it was anybody who felt uncomfortable or didn't know how to do it or did notparticipate would come and like learn how to clay shoot.
And I thought, that's really cool, right?
There's somebody who's thinking ahead about, hey, there are folks who this doesn't comenaturally to.
And it might just be like, you literally never shot a gun before, right?
And so those are things that kind of, I think are an interesting way to bring aboutinclusivity.
(26:56):
But I do see that a lot.
It's like, do we make safety a priority?
And I can tell you first and foremost that if you want to bring more women to the table orfolks that feel more like outsiders to the table, if you can prioritize safety, that's...
fantastic.
And I see a couple people in industry who do this.
And one of the guys that I recently interviewed, his name is Sam Dowd.
(27:17):
He's a kind of a big community steward in the Austin market.
And when I go to his events, when I go to his happy hours, he literally like pulls me inand introduces me to everyone.
And I'm like, that's those moments there.
That's when you feel like I'm joining a community that I can belong in and be a part of.
Those are the things that I feel like when I see I'm just I'm very proud and I'm veryexcited for.
(27:42):
It's moments where it's like you're very much an outsider and we are very much insidersthat I feel like this is how you don't attract more people to this industry.
This is how you make people feel like they can't be a part of this.
think you're well and going back to your point about the clay shooting that creating thatspace because they noticed you know maybe women weren't showing up specifically so we're
(28:06):
going to create this introductory class that allows people to come and gain confidence inshowing up essentially that doesn't just benefit women by the way that there's introverted
people who just are are scared and or nervous or have anxiety about social situations
and creating that safer space for people to bridge that gap to showing up then I think isreally important.
(28:31):
And it's a testament that creating equitable, inclusive events doesn't just benefit thetarget quote unquote group that you were maybe necessarily intending, it benefits
everybody.
And that's really important.
And that's such a great example.
Also, can we start having industry events that aren't just focused on very male-centric?
activities.
(28:52):
Can we all go get our nails done?
I mean, guys could benefit from a pedicure, I'm just saying.
My husband goes and gets his toes done, so.
Mine does too.
Mine does too.
I think there's opportunity to start to shift things.
And I've also noticed a decrease in some spaces, not all yet.
I think we have work to do where a lot of the events aren't.
(29:13):
as focused on drinking and alcohol and that because a lot of the newer generationsespecially, that's not their jam.
I don't drink.
And it's not for any nefarious reason other than I don't want to get a headache.
So I just, that's not the thing I do.
And I often don't want to go to happy hours because I don't want to deal with the questionof, why aren't you drinking?
Like, come on, stop.
So we can create different opportunities for folks to show up from all walks of life.
(29:38):
I think it's
That's a piece of this puzzle we're talking about and really important.
Although when people are like, well, what kind of event would you do?
I'm like, man, don't ask me that because then my brain freezes and I don't know what tosay.
Well, and I mean, and I think about it, right?
Like, because I think about the same thing, like, well, what would you do?
And like, frankly, I
(29:59):
Personally, I love to golf.
I do love these activities.
And yes, they are primarily kind of what was once kind of popular, the thing thateverybody went and did.
I agree.
I'm not a huge fan of going and going to a bar, grabbing a drink.
I don't drink.
And for the same point, I don't like waking up tomorrow morning and feeling like crap.
(30:20):
And so it's, yeah, how do we get together?
And I think that that is, I think that's a tough one to answer because of if you take ahuge step back and you look at how people get together community wise anyways, it's around
food and drink, right?
And sport.
And unless you have some other way of doing that, I think those are the natural thingsthat we come to.
(30:48):
I mean,
The AGC put on a fantastic rodeo this past year that was a smoke, like a cookout.
That was really fun.
One of the ones that we did was building, I think it was like building beds for folks thatin need.
I always love those types of events where we can go and work towards something, whetherthat be, you know, putting food on other people's tables or packaging up.
(31:13):
you boxes to donate or like, those are things where we're coming together and we're doingsomething constructive for the community.
And I see that so often as all of these construction companies are always benefiting ordonating to a benefit or something that's doing good.
And I think maybe bringing people together around those causes might be cool as well,which they probably already do.
(31:36):
Well, we can, think shifting some of the specifically conferences and events can add thatto that as an option, I think in the future.
And I know it's a bigger lift often to do that kind of thing.
It's so much easier to just say, you know, we're going to have a happy hour and we'regoing to pick up the bar tab.
But maybe we start to add and I've seen some of these things start to pop up here andthere.
I know I remember the Green Build Conference, one of their options on the show floor.
(32:00):
was to go and help, I wanna say they were packaging like food boxes or something of thatnature.
And you could just go and spend 30 minutes doing that at the conference and just putting alittle bit of volunteer time in.
And I thought that was really cool as an option that they offered.
I have never seen that before at a conference where there's this like mini volunteer gettogether option.
(32:23):
And it breaks eyes.
Well, you never know what conversations are gonna happen when you're doing those kinds ofthings, I think, differently.
So you mentioned that you talked with Sam Dowd and that's on your Future of Constructionpodcast.
That's newer, right?
It is.
Yeah.
We don't have like a set cadence.
I basically just, whenever I get to meet someone who I think is particularly interestingor would want to understand their perspective or their, just their views on change,
(32:50):
honestly, and how they're stewarding change and construction, we'll book a podcast roomand, and get together and talk about it.
And to me, I get to learn so much through those conversations because I get to see thechallenges that they deal with.
And
you know, how they've approached them in really creative ways.
so, and the topics have ranged from all over, right?
(33:12):
Like some of them were about organizational change.
Some of them were about, you know, how to be more inclusive in the work environment.
Some of them have been about just like how specific cities have changed over time.
It's been a really interesting outlet for me to just.
learn about how we're thinking about change in the construction industry.
(33:33):
That's cool.
What platforms do you publish your podcast on?
so I think we're I think we're on all of them.
I mean, I personally listen on Spotify or but we're on Apple.
We're on all the different podcast channels.
Yeah.
So would encourage folks to go check that out.
I definitely want to check it out.
Just to reach the final wrap up, this is a fun question I would really love to askeverybody is, are there any women in this industry right now that you want to give a shout
(33:59):
out to that are just badass women or somebody who's helped you, mentored you, or justamazing?
in general.
I've got a few, you are one of them by the way.
I know we seldomly chat, but when you and I first connected at Built Worlds, you hadtalked about the work that you do for young women and just getting them used to using
(34:21):
tools and using power tools and getting them involved in construction.
And as someone who is a maker and has had to learn all of those tools on my own and feeluncomfortable walking into a...
Bay that has like all these different woodworking tools and welding equipment And notknowing you know having to be brave and asking how do I use this like that's?
(34:44):
Super cool, dude.
I am so I'm still in awe that you do that and I think that that's really impressivebecause it gives a lot of confidence to young women and I think that's the big part is
like you can do it too.
It's not just something that's
you know, reserved for a particular gender or type of person.
I also, a big shout out to Mallory Brody.
(35:06):
She is...
has always been a great mentor of ours.
She's one of our investors, also just just the ability to tap into her and Lauren's brainhas been really neat as growing our startup.
So that's always been a big one.
And then I've got a couple of ladies back home here in Canada,
Carly Gilcher, think is our last name.
(35:27):
I'm always terrible with last names, but she worked at Clark Builders and she was one ofmy first customers and She was the one that really opened up my eyes to an Amy that's her
name but both of them really opened up my eyes to the fact that as women We have toapproach things differently
in business development because we may not be the person that somebody calls up on aSaturday morning because we may not be in that circle and And as a result, how do you kind
(35:51):
of systematically build those relationships and bring value when maybe your relationshipwith the industry slightly different?
And those two women specifically have really helped kind of open my eyes to different waysand actually influenced how our product was developed in order to enable that kind of
analysis and that kind of.
(36:13):
Yeah, and so, and that's where I think it's fascinating, know, I get a lot of, andMercator was never built for this, is built to kind of reduce key person risk within the
organization and bring those relationships back to the organization.
But the fact that
a lot of our female users are the almost exclusively our super users because they're usingit from a completely different angle than we had built the product from is fascinating to
(36:38):
me.
Yeah.
They're the ones that are able to, they're using it from the perspective of like, okay,I've got to find a different way in.
And I'm a rock climber, right?
I watched guys come to the gym and they can climb similar climbs to, you know, somebodywho's been climbing for, you know, five years.
And, and it's all, you know, upper body strength.
And then you watch us women and we don't plateau.
(37:01):
We actually have to learn.
really, you know, nuanced technique early on to be able to climb these climbs.
And I think it's very similar in this industry is we've got to find our own kind of pathand road.
And that's really fun to watch.
So
such a great analogy.
I also used to rock climb.
And I noticed that the way I had to climb was different.
(37:25):
I love that.
I'm gonna steal that one.
light?
So I've been climbing for 18 years and I've been with my husband for about 10 and a half.
And so I used to take guys like this would be a date night that we would go on, right?
And you'd watch them and they would be like grunting up the wall and like, you know, usingonly upper body strength.
And you're just like sitting back laughing because it's like climbing is all in your lowerbody and you will naturally watch them like pump out and they will plateau.
(37:54):
and then they burn out and then their arms are rock hard, they're, yep.
exactly.
us girls are like, we're like little cats because we've had to learn like such fantastictechnique.
It's uh, that was kind of rough.
differences where I can contort my body in very different ways to fit in different spaceswhere one climb is like slab leaning climbs were so much different for me than than the
(38:18):
men I used to climb with Such a great analogy.
Everything leads back to climbing.
For me, it's always been a perfect kind of mirror to my life.
I haven't climbed in years.
So I've talked, my husband and I have toyed around with getting back into it.
We have a climbing gym nearby.
Hey, if I can figure out how to do five to six hours work days and maybe I can climb more.
There we go.
(38:40):
Well, I really, really appreciate you taking the time to join me and, go check out Chloe'sfuture of construction podcast.
Go check out Mercator.
Go check out the path and the differences that the company is making for our industry.
yeah, Chloe, thanks for joining today.
I really appreciate it.
Thanks, Tristen Honestly, I appreciate the opportunity.
(39:02):
It's been awesome.
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of The Construction Cafe.
We hope you found our conversation as inspiring as your next big project.
Remember, you can dive deeper into the resources and topics we discuss by connecting withus on LinkedIn and Instagram.
(39:23):
Just search for The Construction Cafe.
Don't miss out on future episodes.
Be sure to follow us on Spotify, Podbean, and Apple Podcasts to keep the conversationgoing.
If you're passionate about the construction industry and have a story to share, we'd loveto hear from you.
Visit our website at the constructioncafe.com and drop us a note.
Let's keep building better together.
Popular Podcasts
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com