March 3, 2025 • 37 mins
Harriet Ingham of Holmes Solutions, a recovering structural engineer, shares her journey from New Zealand to the U.S., blending engineering, R&D, and big ideas. From testing seismic anchors to revolutionizing mass timber connections, she proves that breaking the mold leads to real innovation. We dive into problem-solving in construction, why bad ideas spark genius, and how embracing your strengths can shape your career. Plus, the power of mentorship, and why crying out of frustration might just be a leadership superpower. #WICWEEK205
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Episode Transcript
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Welcome to the Construction Cafe, where the buzz of the construction industry meets thewarmth of a friendly conversation.
I'm your host, Tristen Magallanes.
Join me at our virtual cafe as we explore the foundations of construction culture, sip oncutting edge concepts, and amplify the unspoken voices in our industry.
So grab a cup of your favorite beverage, pull up a seat, and let's build more than juststructures, let's build connections.
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This is the Construction Cafe.
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Construction Cafe.
We are continuing on our series for Women in Construction Week, doing interviews all weekand talking to amazing women in this industry who have a plethora of different roles and
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excited to talk through those.
And today we're joined by Harriet Ingham.
Harriet, welcome to the show.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, I've had the pleasure of getting to work with you through my work at DPR.
It's just so exciting to get to learn more about your role and what you do at Holmes.
So why don't you just do a quick little introduction, tell us about your role, what youdo, maybe how you got there.
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Yeah, sure.
So I'm Harriet.
I live in Boulder, Colorado, but I'm originally from New Zealand.
I've been working in the construction industry for about 10 years.
And I say that I'm a recovering structural engineer because that's what I was trained in.
I kind of got into the construction industry deliberately, but also a bit by accident.
When I was in high school, our careers advisor gave us a piece of paper with all potentialcareers listed on it, which as you can imagine, you can only fit so many on one piece of
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paper.
And I remember I decided to go through it by using a process of elimination.
So it's just like crossing out things we're like, absolutely not.
sounds like something I would do too.
And then I looked at what was left and was like, I don't really know.
But I was really lucky.
had a maths teacher and she had been one of the first women that had gone through theUniversity of Canterbury and done engineering.
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And she said, well, hey, you're quite good at maths and science.
Have you thought about engineering?
And to be honest at that time, all I knew about engineering was it involved like cars andmechanical things and taking things apart.
And it honestly just wasn't me at all.
And she's like, well, I think there's a little bit more to it than that.
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You go away, do your research, go
on the Engineering New Zealand website and I did and I was like and really immediatelyzeroed in in structural engineering because I toyed with the idea of architecture but now
I think it's mistakenly but I thought I wasn't creative enough to do that but I liked thestructural engineering piece.
creative enough?
Really?
Yeah, I just had in my head that I was like a maths brain.
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And so it was really logical.
And so then the structural engineering piece spoke to me because I was like, I'll get todesign buildings, but there'll be like these rules.
So I'll know if I'm like right or wrong.
and follow the process.
So I decided to do that.
was like, right, I'm going to engineering school and I'm going to do structuralengineering.
And I moved from Christchurch to Auckland.
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And then two days later, Christchurch had this massive earthquake.
And so for those that aren't familiar, had over 180 people die and 80 % of our centraldowntown had to be rebuilt.
So here I am two days in.
one of our university professors are like, welcome, we're going to go.
because basically one of them was like the Olympics of structural engineering is happeningright now in Christchurch and so here are some PhD students they're gonna look after you
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for a couple of months but what happened is yeah well seems like you're gonna get a jobpretty easily after this.
true.
But I would go back to Christchurch in my holidays between semesters and was really luckyto pick up an internship with Homes A and Z.
So here I am six months, a year into my degree and I am out there looking at buildings,looking at these cracks going through these sheer walls, being like, yeah, that's how
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forces flow through buildings.
can basically see it.
So that was really cool.
I graduated and worked as a structural engineer down in Christchurch for four years withour homes, A and Z And then like all good New Zealanders decided it was time to go
traveling and see the world.
And I packed up my bags to move to London, got halfway.
And now after what was supposed to be a couple of months in Colorado, I've been here forfive years working for our sister company, Home Solutions.
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Yeah, that's kind how I got into it.
And your current role isn't necessarily structural engineering.
How would you describe your role?
I don't think I've ever asked you this.
Yeah, so it's kind of a mix of a few things.
And so I guess important context, the company I work for now, Holmes Solutions, was thesister company of A and Z Holmes Solutions is a little different.
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So what we primarily do is product testing and research and development.
So we create, break, make, solve products for a couple of different industries,transportation, adventure, recreation, and construction.
And so
I work primarily in our construction industry and I sort of lead most of our products andprojects that we have here in the United States.
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And so I guess my role is a small amount of business development, a small amount of...
sort of account management and then a lot of project director, I guess, type role.
But I really love it.
It's really varied.
I was reflecting on this and I had a week a couple of years ago, which was one of thosecrazy travel weeks, but it was really fun.
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I started the week off and I was working, I was in California working with a big companyand we were doing these time and motion studies to look at how we could build data centers
faster.
And we're onsite looking at how we can make them more efficient.
collecting data around that to feed back into the design.
And I went from that straight into a meeting talking about how we were going to build anddesign these new mass timber connectors that were going to enable us to put beams and
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columns up in seconds and not minutes.
And then after that, I drove out to Napa to meet with a New Zealand company who werelooking at bringing these seismic anchors, which are used to sort of help restrain like
wine vats and other pieces of equipment.
during earthquakes, they wanted to bring their product to the states.
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And so we were talking about like the compliance path to bring this New Zealand producthere and what testing would have to do.
And then I like wrapped my week by meeting with a company, bit of a startup that we'relooking at like how we could use modular prefab, but like movable partition walls to
create different spaces in university accommodations that you'd have like these flexiblespaces for
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for privacy, also making small spaces feel bigger.
And I remember sitting on the plane that Friday being like, well, that was cool.
Yeah, like I'm just sitting here, obviously.
Well, you know me well enough to know that I'm also sitting here going, man, that's cool.
I want to do all of that.
Yeah.
it's the variety of the things that I get to do that I really love.
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I really enjoyed being a structural engineer, you kind of tend to be more on like one bigproject that you might have a hospital or a school and you're seeing it the whole way
through.
And I loved that, but I really loved the initial concept piece the most and like thedreams are free.
Like what could we possibly do?
Whereas they're like, do we need six bolts or eight bolts?
And this connection started to sort of, you know.
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the foundation of the structural engineering experience, though, I think, having watchedyou and like done design sessions with you and that like that allows you to bring forward
maybe more realistic, feasible ideas.
Whereas I remember sitting there drawing things like, I don't know structurally if thiscould even be possible, but I'm going to draw the thing anyway.
Although there's there's pluses and minuses to both right, not being constrained by
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structural knowledge is where I sit, because I'm like, I don't know.
I mean, I know tiny bits, you know, but you have the ability to still think beyond that.
And I think that can be difficult for some folks.
It's really important when you're doing like ideation and product design, and I thinkwe've talked about this before, to have someone who comes in and goes, I have no
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preconceived ideas about what this should be.
And with those mass timber connectors that I was talking about.
The guy that led that project from us was a mechanical engineer with a history inautospace that had never really done any structural engineering before, but he was perfect
to lead it because he's like, we're trying to connect two things together.
Cool.
that's fine, what are the forces?
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And we ended up borrowing a concept from roadside, like a jaw anchor grip that, you know,had never been used in structural engineering, but it was used and tested in another
industry.
And I came into the ideation session, we're like, we use screws and bolts.
Why don't we do that?
And I was like,
Well, and I think that speaks to not even, you know, new people coming, you right fromcollege or from apprenticeship schools into the industry, but this is the transferability
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of other skill sets into this industry.
I think that folks don't often see or think of there's a possibility, but there really isbecause you're talking about somebody who has, you know, training in another space, auto,
and there is actually
probably a big necessity to bring folks with other experience into the industry becausethey bring a fresh perspective or just a different way of thinking of we did this here,
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could we possibly use it here?
And because they're not constrained by, well, we've done this in construction this way for50 years.
They don't have that box that they're thinking in, which I find super exciting.
Now, yeah, you're going to come up with a hundred ideas that don't work, but it's only theone that works that matters.
at end of the day and the hundred things you learned in the things that didn't work.
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Yeah, and you don't know what, like if you're coming up with an idea, you don't know whatthat might trigger in someone else.
So it's, we always, we like the crazier ideas at the start.
The dreams are free at that stage.
So what can we about
finished up a new like class with IDEO U And one of the things they taught is an exerciseyou can do with a group at the start just to get people to let the guard down, think
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outside the box kind of situation is instead of what are your ideas to solve this?
It's what are give me every bad idea, like we're only going to put bad ideas up on thewall.
Bad, weird.
strange, impossible ideas.
That's all and it's one, it brings like enjoyment, is cool to think about of like, let'sjust relax and we're going to spend a little bit of time and just have fun with it.
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But from that often comes the actual idea.
Yeah, it does.
And when we lead ideation sessions with like new staff, or maybe we're bringing in ourclients or, you know, even folks from wider Holmes that aren't as familiar with it.
Those that people that lead it do often try to do that.
They try to throw out silly ideas to start with so people understand that they can.
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But I really like that idea of give us your bad ideas first.
I had never all the design thinking courses I've taken and things that was the first timeI'd heard that one.
So I'm actually excited to try it.
I don't know where, but I want to try it.
Yeah, we should just do it together and find something to work on because it sounds likefun to me.
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Well, moving into a little bit more about like, it is Women in Construction Week andthinking about,
there's great opportunity here, but there's still some challenges.
And so are there certain challenges you faced as a woman in this industry that you canspeak to?
And if you've figured out how to solve them, but I don't know if we all have, so that'sokay.
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Yeah, I think...
One of the interesting challenges for me, and I've got bit of a story behind this, but Igrew up with a sister.
so between my sister, me and my mom, and all of us having quite strong personalities, andmy dad being a total girl dad, I grew up in a really feminine household.
And then I went to an all girls high school.
So I was around mainly women.
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And then when I went to university, to college, I had a really, really good group ofgirlfriends right from the first day of university, but you know, kind of
I about being in a cohort of 75 % men.
And so when I arrived in the workforce, was, know, homes was pretty great.
We've got quite a few women there, but it was still definitely like a change.
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And one of the things I maybe wasn't as prepared for was some of the differentcommunication styles.
And I have this memory and I was about, I think I was maybe my second year and I was onsite in full PPE on the fifth or fourth
floor of a building with my site plans there to do like a pre-pour pre-concrete pourinspection.
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And I'm sort of standing there looking around and I had this guy come up to me, he was asubcontractor who I didn't know.
He's like, hey, can I help you?
Like, are you lost?
And I immediately was like, my goodness, he thinks I'm lost.
He thinks I don't belong here.
Like, like I'm a woman and he thinks I don't know what I'm doing, which was totally mejust projecting straight
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onto him, my insecurities.
And what I hadn't quite picked up yet was that, and this is a huge generalization, butlike men do tend to be more blunt than women.
Like he just genuinely wanted to know if I needed help or if there was something he couldhelp me find.
It wasn't, there was none at all.
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And here I might be like, he thinks I don't belong.
And.
I've had those moments.
Yeah, and I'm like, obviously I do.
I'm full PPE.
I haven't stumbled onto the fifth floor of a construction site by accident.
But I think I hadn't quite picked up the fact that, you know, because women would like,hi, like, you look like you know what you're doing, but like, I just wanted to make sure
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that you were okay.
all this fluff around the actual thing that they're trying to get to.
a colleague of mine recently said something hilarious.
She's like, women often talk in paragraphs.
just makes me think of my texting and my texts aren't like a line, they're like aparagraph.
Yeah, and it was just so that and then I I've noticed this more and I'll also say thatthis is potentially also a cultural thing that New Zealand is less blunt than Americans as
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well.
Like we're quite good at talking around a point to get there.
But now having worked with a lot of men for a while and lived in the States, I think whenI go back to New Zealand, mean, perceived as incredibly blunt.
So I've kind of adopted it and.
Oh, that's interesting.
know I grew up, all my cousins are, I have a few female cousins, but they're younger thanme.
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So I grew up with all boys and a brother and my stepbrother and whatnot.
And then I immediately entered into the industry at 19.
And so been surrounded by men, majority of my career.
And so I often get told by others that I am
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too blunt or too straight to the point.
I didn't like soften it enough.
And I'm like, but would you say that to a dude?
Because I feel like homeboy just said the same thing and you're fine with that.
But because I'm a woman, I think the reverse can happen is if you've been around it enoughand you take on that same kind of communication style.
But because you're female, you're perceived as like too blunt or too this.
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And I'm like, no, like I'm saying the same thing that person's saying.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know.
So it's kind of interesting.
Like how do you find the right way to show up?
Yeah, and I think a lot of it just comes down to people get used to you.
That's 100 % truth, I would say, because I think people now, the people that don't like itabout me, that's okay.
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And the people that love it about me are like, yeah, she's just to the point.
Like that's great.
And I love having meetings with people that are all very blunt.
They've just, it's so great.
It's so much easier to me of like, let's just
I think it's something that I've really enjoyed learning from the guys around me becausethey, a lot of them will, they'll be much more like, this is what I'm trying to say and
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they'll move on from things a lot faster and not take it on a little bit.
Which I think, you know, particularly when you're in the workplace, like that's a reallygood thing to do.
A lot of things aren't personal.
And if you can do that, it can be quite good.
I feel like I should exercise that a bit with more with my husband, my husband, like puntsand moves on from things like super fast.
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And a year later, I'm like, but what about and he's like, what are you even talking about?
Because he's just so like, doesn't care moved on already.
That doesn't have a hurt feeling about it.
And I'm expecting that he does.
It doesn't.
It's kind of hilarious how like, the work persona is bleed into the personal there.
So that's pretty funny.
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Yeah.
just recently read a report and I don't know the accuracy of it, but they're saying thatthe number of women or the percentage of women in the industry has increased to 14 % now.
I'm still trying to figure out the source of this because it's been socialized quite a biton LinkedIn.
And that's 4 % jump from last year to this year seems not real.
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It could be.
I'm curious.
But it brings to the question, equity for women in this industry and equity societally isa big topic of conversation right now, but specifically in our industry, what are some
changes you think are needed or wanted to bring more equity for women in this industry?
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Yeah, and
I'm just going to preface this by saying that I don't spend a lot of time on an actualconstruction site.
And I know that there are a lot of challenges that come for women that are on a site, youwith availability around bathrooms and all of that.
And it's quite a different place, but I've spent the majority of my career in an office.
So it's quite, it is quite a different workplace.
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And I think it kind of builds onto the communication styles, but one of the, one of thethings that I think I've struggled with the most or
has felt imbalanced has actually been around how emotions are expressed and I don't knowif you're the same way but when I get really angry or frustrated I cry.
I do too.
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Yep.
I hate it.
mad and I will cry harder.
And there's been times in the office, like I was designing this building back when I wasstill working as a structural engineer and I was, you know, deep in detailed design.
We've got this model and I do not like modeling.
It's not a strength And here I am chasing loads around the building, trying to figure outwhy my model's broken.
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And I'd watched others, men predominantly in my work.
workplace, get frustrated or angry in the past and then sort of be like, ah, this isannoying.
they're more typical display of anger.
Here I am frustrated.
And I just go and just burst into a flood of tears in the middle of the office.
And immediately I'm embarrassed and mad at myself.
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But also everyone's kind of looking at me being like, what do we do?
Like, are you okay?
And I'm like, I'm just really mad.
And they're looking at me like, And it's
I think one of the really cool things about increased diversity in the workplace is thatyou get an increased diversity in the way people respond and react to things.
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And it becomes more normal that maybe what we see as typical male behavior, which hasbecome typical office behavior, isn't actually the norm.
And people are going to respond to different things in different ways.
And that's cool because there might be some guys out there that also cry when they're mad.
And so we're creating space for them.
really interesting.
It's just really interesting.
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I too am a crier when I get frustrated or angry.
I always have been.
I've done it in a meeting in meetings before.
And I'm like, I'm just really frustrated right now.
But I'm going to talk through the tears.
I've learned to just say that now to preface the situation so people don't do like thecaretaking of like, are you okay?
Because
Now you're just embarrassing me and I don't need that either.
thinking back to my first like five years in the industry and displays the, would sayhyper masculine displays of emotion that I experienced for like screaming and punching and
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yelling and all this over the topness.
But that was accepted and it still actually is sometimes.
Which is...
yeah.
interesting and I've had a situation as well in a performance review where I was gettingsome negative feedback and I burst into tears.
My boss is great and he was like, oh no, it's fine.
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Like if you need a minute.
And I was like, I want you to know that I'm not crying because I can't accept thisfeedback like I am.
I'm actually just like kind of mad about it because I think it's like something that Ihave recognized in myself.
But like, I don't want you to stop giving me this feedback.
I'm not upset.
can't, it's not that I can't handle it.
I'm just responding to it in a different way than maybe other, many of my colleaguesmight.
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Yeah, I would.
I've probably been there too.
And that to me is more about like, I'm frustrated with myself in this moment.
So I'm like, like, damn it.
Like, I thought I got in a hang of that kind of like, that's more.
And I think it's, I've had, and I've had, uh, mail direct reports to me that have cried,um, or just shown up in just this very like shut down kind of way.
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And,
I approach them maybe differently than male leaders have done for them in the past.
And I think it facilitated them working through it faster and not feeling ashamed thatthey like this was their reaction.
I was like, well, we all have days.
Because I'm okay with this.
And I think the more diverse leadership and managers that we have in this industry andcolleagues that we can do that with, I think that's really important.
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I also think it teaches our allies how to exercise those muscles.
You know, like there's a couple of people I work with on my day to day job and I've beenreally fucking frustrated, like mad, like angry.
And I call them up.
because I needed to vent.
This is literally, I'm not looking for you to solve anything.
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I just need like 10 minutes of like, bah!
But I'm like cross sobbing at the same time.
And they're like, okay.
But 20 years ago, I would have never found that in this industry.
Yeah, yeah, my
that my direct boss, he's great if I ever need to talk things through and be like, I justneed to vent.
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But then I have other colleagues that are fantastic.
I'm like, I just want to surround myself with people that won't ask and we'll just belike, let's just move on.
I'm like, great, that's all I want to do right now.
Let's go find those people and just sit with them.
And that's the cool thing is like no one has to be everything or be able to do it all.
we need space for everyone to realize their strengths so that you can be
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that person that someone goes to when they need a certain type of support.
absolutely.
That's such a great observation.
I really appreciate that one.
Makes me think about like how to be a leader myself and show up in this space for...
yes, 100 % that.
pivoting over to, you know, there's these challenges we have, but...
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I know Holmes does like a lot of great things for community and younger folks trying tocome into the industry.
Do you have any examples you could share with us?
I want I love always love the holiday like card that y'all send out because it's aboutit's just an electronic card of service to others.
So you want to speak a little bit about some of that because I think it's great.
Yeah, giving back to our communities a pretty core thing of what we do at HolmesSolutions.
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We really truly believe in it.
Our team is more mechanical engineer heavy than like structural and civil.
And so even compared to the civil engineering department, mechanical engineering is evenlower in terms of the number of females coming through.
And so we have been working with a few programs that really encourage kids to think aboutcareers in engineering and realize how creative and how much of a problem solver they are.
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And so there's a few folks like myself that are involved in like various mentoringprograms at high schools.
But we also do work with a program called EPRO8, which is like an engineering problemsolving program.
And so we actually host that competition in our lab.
So we have this big, you know, I think it's 45,000 square feet R &D facility with allsorts of test machines and mills and lathes and CNC machines.
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And we actually clear some space for the kids to come in and sort of build, yeah, buildtheir projects and test them out as part of the competitions in that lab space.
And in the past, we've had school groups through and I don't know if you did this in highschool maybe,
but like, you know, the spaghetti challenge, you've got spaghetti and marshmallows and youtry to build these structures as high as you can.
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Yeah, or you have like, straws and tape and basically, yeah, getting people to buildstructures, well, we often then put them on our shake table and actually shake them.
So they get to see, you know, New Zealand kids know what an earthquake feels like.
So like seeing how can design buildings to be safer is really fun.
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And just...
It's really cool when you engage with students in the engineering space because you know,there's no budgets, there's no red tape or anything that we deal with in the industry.
So it's, just this huge creative thought process.
And for me, I really love it as well, because I go into a local high school once a weekand in there.
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current term and run the ACE mentoring program.
And the skill set that these kids have and are bringing to the industry, they're modelingand rev it already.
And the creativity that they have is cool.
And sometimes you have to give them a little bit of a push being like, you don't actuallyhave a budget right now, like you can do whatever you want.
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But to get them really excited and engaged in thinking big, so they can kind of see thatthey'll be able to bring some of that to our industry.
it's
It's a space where you can explore.
So it's really fun.
I enjoy it a lot and I learn a lot.
I was gonna say, feel like there's a lot of criticism folks give some of the youngergeneration, right?
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I've heard so much of it.
But I think the flip side is we have so much to learn from them if we can just calm ourassumptions and calm down the fact that, yeah, they're all digital and they have a device
in their hand 24 seven probably, but
their skill and ability with those things is far beyond what mine ever probably will be.
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And I'm OK with that.
Because in 20 years, I probably won't even be able to comprehend what the people I'mleading are doing because they're just they're so it's just so different.
You know, I look at like there's coding camps for girls.
I think those are amazing.
Like part of me wants to like, can I just take like a month off and just go do that forlike as an adult woman?
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And I have an adult woman camp.
for coding I think it's really awesome that folks show up to mentor youth because if theysee examples that look like them, they're more likely to be like, I can also do that.
I was at the California Conference for Women yesterday and some of the main speakers,Simone Biles, right?
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Who is one of our incredible path and journey and
just oldest gymnasts to have competed and she was one of the first black gymnasts andhearing her story and specifically she's doing the same thing is I want to be an example
to others and say look she looks like me and she's there I can also do it and I feel likethat's kind of doing those kind of programs is what we can do.
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Yeah, and it's it is kind of interesting as well to make sure you're not feeling a littlebit threatened by it.
And I don't know if you found this, but I remember when I had been a graduate for maybe acouple of years and also especially this year, we just had the most amazing group of
summer interns come through at Solutions.
and they come in and they're like doing this stuff and you're like, I don't even know howto do this.
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And it's really tempting to be like, gosh, like these people are, you know, coming from ajob or like, and it's really important to realize that we're here to try and make it
easier for people in the future and to learn from them and to do everything we can in ourpower to make sure that their road is easier.
They aim higher and they achieve more than we ever have.
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And yeah, it's pretty cool.
But it's also a little bit like, what?
Yeah, it's a little, I would imagine every generational shift in industry that can feelthreatening.
And I have one of my other interviews we were reflecting on examples of women when I firstcame into the industry There were very few women in the industry.
And the way that you were often treated was
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more in this antagonistic relationship of like, can't let you climb too high because Ineed to keep my spot.
And this like competition feeling, I don't feel like we need to do that anymore.
That's not the goal here.
Like we need to work together to bring everybody along.
Yeah.
Yeah, and it's, it kind of reminds me of like...
I don't know if you have this with your parents occasionally, but they're like, in my daywe had to do this and it was so hard.
(30:21):
And you're like, yes, but you wanted it to be easier for us.
I just want to remind you of that.
And it's a similar thing.
like, if we feel like we fought for our positions in our roles and I'm going to admit, Idon't really feel like I had to, I was really supported the whole way.
But if people are feeling like they really had to fight tooth and nail to get where theywere and to be accepted, and then they're looking at people and like, well, you haven't
(30:43):
had to fight as hard.
It's like, yeah, that was the point.
That's entire point.
Yeah, it's funny, I've also, because of working a lot in R &D and innovation space,weirdly enough, I've had people who also work in that space turn to me and say, but this
is how it's always been done.
And I'm like.
most dangerous phrase in the English language.
(31:04):
Yes, and the whole point of what we're trying to do is to change that, make it better,improve upon it, analyze it, acknowledge that it doesn't work.
Like, that productivity curve of construction hasn't changed for a long time for a reasonbecause of that statement right there.
And it's interesting to me when people say that because at one point we also only hadbuggies and horses.
(31:31):
Yeah.
point we only had rocks and not an actual hammer.
my observation, which is partially an assumption, is people say that because they'reafraid of the change that might come that then they feel like they might become obsolete.
Like that's not how it has to be.
That's not how it has to be.
You can choose to
be different about that.
(31:52):
I want in 10 years for kind of my skill set to be irrelevant.
I want the new generation to come knock it out of the park and someday talk about us oldtimers.
We have enough problems to solve.
There's room for everyone.
Right.
Yes.
So true.
So this is the fun question I try to ask everybody towards the end if you could give youryounger self coming into the industry, one piece of advice, what would it be?
(32:18):
think it would be to trust more in my strengths and where they'll take me.
Obviously, engineering is a really technical career and I started off my job at homes andhomes across Australia, New Zealand and America, as the top technical people.
You're surrounded by really smart people and I remember just feeling super intimidated bythat.
(32:42):
But what I quickly realized is, and maybe some other women will relate to this, but I havesome really strong strengths when it comes to communication and building relationships.
And I started to get invited to more client networking events and all of this, which waspretty rare as a junior graduate.
And I remember going to a networking event, I think it was a Christmas party actually forone of the projects I was working on.
(33:07):
And as I was walking out of the event with one of my colleagues,
like, wow, great job.
Like, I just watched you, you completely worked that room, you went around, you talked toeverybody.
And you did it in a way that no one felt that you were like ditching them after a coupleof minutes.
And I was like, like I hadn't really thought about it.
I remembered when I walked into the room, I'd be like, you know what, I need to make sureI touch bases with everyone here and connect with them.
(33:28):
But it hadn't been something that I actively had to really try.
And so I kind of was sort of thinking about that.
And then two weeks later, we had an issue on the job site.
Where it's kind of classic maybe the structural drawings weren't quite as detailed or aswell done as they should have been and then the general contractor instead of bringing to
clarify had made an assumption picked a root and happened to be the wrong one so we'regonna have to do a little bit of rework and I remember finding this out and being like my
(33:56):
gosh I'm so stressed like it might take and I remember walking into the meeting room andsitting down with general contractor who I'd spent some time with a few weeks ago I was
like hey, I think I think we might have messed up a bit.
I think you've
messed up a bit, just to clarify, New Zealand's not quite as litigious, so you can saythat a little bit more or less.
And he was like, yeah, no worries.
And it was the fact that we'd already built this relationship meant that we just sat downlike, right, what needs to happen?
(34:20):
What do you need from me?
How can we work this out?
And how can we do it?
And I started to realize how valuable that would be.
And that's kind of what...
lead me to my current role was that ability to create and form those relationships withpeople.
And so there's sometimes where it feels like, you know, being a woman is a huge benefit.
(34:40):
Like I work in business development.
I go to conferences where one of my main jobs is to be memorable.
So here I am, foreign female that's, you know, younger.
So I'm really different to everyone else.
I've already got this advantage.
And so I think one of my piece of advice is like, use them.
Don't be afraid to be
this is a strength of mine, I can use it to take me places where I want to go like livingin the States and working with these really cool companies.
(35:06):
And don't be so afraid of the things that you perceive as being weaker and don't thinkthat they're necessarily going to hold you back.
Just lean into what you can do because not everyone can do that.
Absolutely.
yeah, I think owning those differences is really important.
It can be a challenge, especially when you're younger and newer in the industry.
But even if you're coming into it from another industry and you're transferring over,authentically leaning into it, owning it, I think is super important.
(35:32):
find that network of women.
Mm-hmm.
to connect with and have that same support or similar support that you might have had incollege or trade school or high school So, well, man and I wish we had more time because I
love talking with you and you are memorable.
You're one of my favorite people I've met in the last two years in my current role and Ilove talking to you.
(35:55):
I love just how
creative our conversations get.
So, super, super thankful that you took the time to come be on the podcast today and Ihope everybody enjoyed the conversation.
There will be a lot more because we're trying to roll out, I think up to 15 interviews forWomen in Construction Week, so we'll see.
But thanks, Harriet.
Thanks for coming on.
thanks for having me.
(36:20):
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of The Construction Cafe.
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(36:44):
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Let's keep building together.
Welcome to the Construction Cafe, where the buzz of the construction industry meets thewarmth of a friendly conversation.
I'm your host, Tristen Magallanes.
Join me at our virtual cafe as we explore the foundations of construction culture, sip oncutting edge concepts, and amplify the unspoken voices in our industry.
So grab a cup of your favorite beverage, pull up a seat, and let's build more than juststructures, let's build connections.
(00:33):
This is the Construction Cafe.
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Construction Cafe.
We are continuing on our series for Women in Construction Week, doing interviews all weekand talking to amazing women in this industry who have a plethora of different roles and
(01:00):
excited to talk through those.
And today we're joined by Harriet Ingham.
Harriet, welcome to the show.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, I've had the pleasure of getting to work with you through my work at DPR.
It's just so exciting to get to learn more about your role and what you do at Holmes.
So why don't you just do a quick little introduction, tell us about your role, what youdo, maybe how you got there.
(01:24):
Yeah, sure.
So I'm Harriet.
I live in Boulder, Colorado, but I'm originally from New Zealand.
I've been working in the construction industry for about 10 years.
And I say that I'm a recovering structural engineer because that's what I was trained in.
I kind of got into the construction industry deliberately, but also a bit by accident.
When I was in high school, our careers advisor gave us a piece of paper with all potentialcareers listed on it, which as you can imagine, you can only fit so many on one piece of
(01:54):
paper.
And I remember I decided to go through it by using a process of elimination.
So it's just like crossing out things we're like, absolutely not.
sounds like something I would do too.
And then I looked at what was left and was like, I don't really know.
But I was really lucky.
had a maths teacher and she had been one of the first women that had gone through theUniversity of Canterbury and done engineering.
(02:17):
And she said, well, hey, you're quite good at maths and science.
Have you thought about engineering?
And to be honest at that time, all I knew about engineering was it involved like cars andmechanical things and taking things apart.
And it honestly just wasn't me at all.
And she's like, well, I think there's a little bit more to it than that.
(02:38):
You go away, do your research, go
on the Engineering New Zealand website and I did and I was like and really immediatelyzeroed in in structural engineering because I toyed with the idea of architecture but now
I think it's mistakenly but I thought I wasn't creative enough to do that but I liked thestructural engineering piece.
creative enough?
Really?
Yeah, I just had in my head that I was like a maths brain.
(02:59):
And so it was really logical.
And so then the structural engineering piece spoke to me because I was like, I'll get todesign buildings, but there'll be like these rules.
So I'll know if I'm like right or wrong.
and follow the process.
So I decided to do that.
was like, right, I'm going to engineering school and I'm going to do structuralengineering.
And I moved from Christchurch to Auckland.
(03:21):
And then two days later, Christchurch had this massive earthquake.
And so for those that aren't familiar, had over 180 people die and 80 % of our centraldowntown had to be rebuilt.
So here I am two days in.
one of our university professors are like, welcome, we're going to go.
because basically one of them was like the Olympics of structural engineering is happeningright now in Christchurch and so here are some PhD students they're gonna look after you
(03:50):
for a couple of months but what happened is yeah well seems like you're gonna get a jobpretty easily after this.
true.
But I would go back to Christchurch in my holidays between semesters and was really luckyto pick up an internship with Homes A and Z.
So here I am six months, a year into my degree and I am out there looking at buildings,looking at these cracks going through these sheer walls, being like, yeah, that's how
(04:18):
forces flow through buildings.
can basically see it.
So that was really cool.
I graduated and worked as a structural engineer down in Christchurch for four years withour homes, A and Z And then like all good New Zealanders decided it was time to go
traveling and see the world.
And I packed up my bags to move to London, got halfway.
And now after what was supposed to be a couple of months in Colorado, I've been here forfive years working for our sister company, Home Solutions.
(04:47):
Yeah, that's kind how I got into it.
And your current role isn't necessarily structural engineering.
How would you describe your role?
I don't think I've ever asked you this.
Yeah, so it's kind of a mix of a few things.
And so I guess important context, the company I work for now, Holmes Solutions, was thesister company of A and Z Holmes Solutions is a little different.
(05:12):
So what we primarily do is product testing and research and development.
So we create, break, make, solve products for a couple of different industries,transportation, adventure, recreation, and construction.
And so
I work primarily in our construction industry and I sort of lead most of our products andprojects that we have here in the United States.
(05:37):
And so I guess my role is a small amount of business development, a small amount of...
sort of account management and then a lot of project director, I guess, type role.
But I really love it.
It's really varied.
I was reflecting on this and I had a week a couple of years ago, which was one of thosecrazy travel weeks, but it was really fun.
(05:57):
I started the week off and I was working, I was in California working with a big companyand we were doing these time and motion studies to look at how we could build data centers
faster.
And we're onsite looking at how we can make them more efficient.
collecting data around that to feed back into the design.
And I went from that straight into a meeting talking about how we were going to build anddesign these new mass timber connectors that were going to enable us to put beams and
(06:24):
columns up in seconds and not minutes.
And then after that, I drove out to Napa to meet with a New Zealand company who werelooking at bringing these seismic anchors, which are used to sort of help restrain like
wine vats and other pieces of equipment.
during earthquakes, they wanted to bring their product to the states.
(06:44):
And so we were talking about like the compliance path to bring this New Zealand producthere and what testing would have to do.
And then I like wrapped my week by meeting with a company, bit of a startup that we'relooking at like how we could use modular prefab, but like movable partition walls to
create different spaces in university accommodations that you'd have like these flexiblespaces for
(07:06):
for privacy, also making small spaces feel bigger.
And I remember sitting on the plane that Friday being like, well, that was cool.
Yeah, like I'm just sitting here, obviously.
Well, you know me well enough to know that I'm also sitting here going, man, that's cool.
I want to do all of that.
Yeah.
it's the variety of the things that I get to do that I really love.
(07:27):
I really enjoyed being a structural engineer, you kind of tend to be more on like one bigproject that you might have a hospital or a school and you're seeing it the whole way
through.
And I loved that, but I really loved the initial concept piece the most and like thedreams are free.
Like what could we possibly do?
Whereas they're like, do we need six bolts or eight bolts?
And this connection started to sort of, you know.
(07:49):
the foundation of the structural engineering experience, though, I think, having watchedyou and like done design sessions with you and that like that allows you to bring forward
maybe more realistic, feasible ideas.
Whereas I remember sitting there drawing things like, I don't know structurally if thiscould even be possible, but I'm going to draw the thing anyway.
Although there's there's pluses and minuses to both right, not being constrained by
(08:14):
structural knowledge is where I sit, because I'm like, I don't know.
I mean, I know tiny bits, you know, but you have the ability to still think beyond that.
And I think that can be difficult for some folks.
It's really important when you're doing like ideation and product design, and I thinkwe've talked about this before, to have someone who comes in and goes, I have no
(08:34):
preconceived ideas about what this should be.
And with those mass timber connectors that I was talking about.
The guy that led that project from us was a mechanical engineer with a history inautospace that had never really done any structural engineering before, but he was perfect
to lead it because he's like, we're trying to connect two things together.
Cool.
that's fine, what are the forces?
(08:56):
And we ended up borrowing a concept from roadside, like a jaw anchor grip that, you know,had never been used in structural engineering, but it was used and tested in another
industry.
And I came into the ideation session, we're like, we use screws and bolts.
Why don't we do that?
And I was like,
Well, and I think that speaks to not even, you know, new people coming, you right fromcollege or from apprenticeship schools into the industry, but this is the transferability
(09:21):
of other skill sets into this industry.
I think that folks don't often see or think of there's a possibility, but there really isbecause you're talking about somebody who has, you know, training in another space, auto,
and there is actually
probably a big necessity to bring folks with other experience into the industry becausethey bring a fresh perspective or just a different way of thinking of we did this here,
(09:49):
could we possibly use it here?
And because they're not constrained by, well, we've done this in construction this way for50 years.
They don't have that box that they're thinking in, which I find super exciting.
Now, yeah, you're going to come up with a hundred ideas that don't work, but it's only theone that works that matters.
at end of the day and the hundred things you learned in the things that didn't work.
(10:12):
Yeah, and you don't know what, like if you're coming up with an idea, you don't know whatthat might trigger in someone else.
So it's, we always, we like the crazier ideas at the start.
The dreams are free at that stage.
So what can we about
finished up a new like class with IDEO U And one of the things they taught is an exerciseyou can do with a group at the start just to get people to let the guard down, think
(10:40):
outside the box kind of situation is instead of what are your ideas to solve this?
It's what are give me every bad idea, like we're only going to put bad ideas up on thewall.
Bad, weird.
strange, impossible ideas.
That's all and it's one, it brings like enjoyment, is cool to think about of like, let'sjust relax and we're going to spend a little bit of time and just have fun with it.
(11:06):
But from that often comes the actual idea.
Yeah, it does.
And when we lead ideation sessions with like new staff, or maybe we're bringing in ourclients or, you know, even folks from wider Holmes that aren't as familiar with it.
Those that people that lead it do often try to do that.
They try to throw out silly ideas to start with so people understand that they can.
(11:29):
But I really like that idea of give us your bad ideas first.
I had never all the design thinking courses I've taken and things that was the first timeI'd heard that one.
So I'm actually excited to try it.
I don't know where, but I want to try it.
Yeah, we should just do it together and find something to work on because it sounds likefun to me.
(11:50):
Well, moving into a little bit more about like, it is Women in Construction Week andthinking about,
there's great opportunity here, but there's still some challenges.
And so are there certain challenges you faced as a woman in this industry that you canspeak to?
And if you've figured out how to solve them, but I don't know if we all have, so that'sokay.
(12:11):
Yeah, I think...
One of the interesting challenges for me, and I've got bit of a story behind this, but Igrew up with a sister.
so between my sister, me and my mom, and all of us having quite strong personalities, andmy dad being a total girl dad, I grew up in a really feminine household.
And then I went to an all girls high school.
So I was around mainly women.
(12:33):
And then when I went to university, to college, I had a really, really good group ofgirlfriends right from the first day of university, but you know, kind of
I about being in a cohort of 75 % men.
And so when I arrived in the workforce, was, know, homes was pretty great.
We've got quite a few women there, but it was still definitely like a change.
(12:57):
And one of the things I maybe wasn't as prepared for was some of the differentcommunication styles.
And I have this memory and I was about, I think I was maybe my second year and I was onsite in full PPE on the fifth or fourth
floor of a building with my site plans there to do like a pre-pour pre-concrete pourinspection.
(13:19):
And I'm sort of standing there looking around and I had this guy come up to me, he was asubcontractor who I didn't know.
He's like, hey, can I help you?
Like, are you lost?
And I immediately was like, my goodness, he thinks I'm lost.
He thinks I don't belong here.
Like, like I'm a woman and he thinks I don't know what I'm doing, which was totally mejust projecting straight
(13:42):
onto him, my insecurities.
And what I hadn't quite picked up yet was that, and this is a huge generalization, butlike men do tend to be more blunt than women.
Like he just genuinely wanted to know if I needed help or if there was something he couldhelp me find.
It wasn't, there was none at all.
(14:02):
And here I might be like, he thinks I don't belong.
And.
I've had those moments.
Yeah, and I'm like, obviously I do.
I'm full PPE.
I haven't stumbled onto the fifth floor of a construction site by accident.
But I think I hadn't quite picked up the fact that, you know, because women would like,hi, like, you look like you know what you're doing, but like, I just wanted to make sure
(14:26):
that you were okay.
all this fluff around the actual thing that they're trying to get to.
a colleague of mine recently said something hilarious.
She's like, women often talk in paragraphs.
just makes me think of my texting and my texts aren't like a line, they're like aparagraph.
Yeah, and it was just so that and then I I've noticed this more and I'll also say thatthis is potentially also a cultural thing that New Zealand is less blunt than Americans as
(14:56):
well.
Like we're quite good at talking around a point to get there.
But now having worked with a lot of men for a while and lived in the States, I think whenI go back to New Zealand, mean, perceived as incredibly blunt.
So I've kind of adopted it and.
Oh, that's interesting.
know I grew up, all my cousins are, I have a few female cousins, but they're younger thanme.
(15:17):
So I grew up with all boys and a brother and my stepbrother and whatnot.
And then I immediately entered into the industry at 19.
And so been surrounded by men, majority of my career.
And so I often get told by others that I am
(15:40):
too blunt or too straight to the point.
I didn't like soften it enough.
And I'm like, but would you say that to a dude?
Because I feel like homeboy just said the same thing and you're fine with that.
But because I'm a woman, I think the reverse can happen is if you've been around it enoughand you take on that same kind of communication style.
But because you're female, you're perceived as like too blunt or too this.
(16:05):
And I'm like, no, like I'm saying the same thing that person's saying.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know.
So it's kind of interesting.
Like how do you find the right way to show up?
Yeah, and I think a lot of it just comes down to people get used to you.
That's 100 % truth, I would say, because I think people now, the people that don't like itabout me, that's okay.
(16:33):
And the people that love it about me are like, yeah, she's just to the point.
Like that's great.
And I love having meetings with people that are all very blunt.
They've just, it's so great.
It's so much easier to me of like, let's just
I think it's something that I've really enjoyed learning from the guys around me becausethey, a lot of them will, they'll be much more like, this is what I'm trying to say and
(16:56):
they'll move on from things a lot faster and not take it on a little bit.
Which I think, you know, particularly when you're in the workplace, like that's a reallygood thing to do.
A lot of things aren't personal.
And if you can do that, it can be quite good.
I feel like I should exercise that a bit with more with my husband, my husband, like puntsand moves on from things like super fast.
(17:20):
And a year later, I'm like, but what about and he's like, what are you even talking about?
Because he's just so like, doesn't care moved on already.
That doesn't have a hurt feeling about it.
And I'm expecting that he does.
It doesn't.
It's kind of hilarious how like, the work persona is bleed into the personal there.
So that's pretty funny.
(17:41):
Yeah.
just recently read a report and I don't know the accuracy of it, but they're saying thatthe number of women or the percentage of women in the industry has increased to 14 % now.
I'm still trying to figure out the source of this because it's been socialized quite a biton LinkedIn.
And that's 4 % jump from last year to this year seems not real.
(18:02):
It could be.
I'm curious.
But it brings to the question, equity for women in this industry and equity societally isa big topic of conversation right now, but specifically in our industry, what are some
changes you think are needed or wanted to bring more equity for women in this industry?
(18:22):
Yeah, and
I'm just going to preface this by saying that I don't spend a lot of time on an actualconstruction site.
And I know that there are a lot of challenges that come for women that are on a site, youwith availability around bathrooms and all of that.
And it's quite a different place, but I've spent the majority of my career in an office.
So it's quite, it is quite a different workplace.
(18:45):
And I think it kind of builds onto the communication styles, but one of the, one of thethings that I think I've struggled with the most or
has felt imbalanced has actually been around how emotions are expressed and I don't knowif you're the same way but when I get really angry or frustrated I cry.
I do too.
(19:05):
Yep.
I hate it.
mad and I will cry harder.
And there's been times in the office, like I was designing this building back when I wasstill working as a structural engineer and I was, you know, deep in detailed design.
We've got this model and I do not like modeling.
It's not a strength And here I am chasing loads around the building, trying to figure outwhy my model's broken.
(19:30):
And I'd watched others, men predominantly in my work.
workplace, get frustrated or angry in the past and then sort of be like, ah, this isannoying.
they're more typical display of anger.
Here I am frustrated.
And I just go and just burst into a flood of tears in the middle of the office.
And immediately I'm embarrassed and mad at myself.
(19:50):
But also everyone's kind of looking at me being like, what do we do?
Like, are you okay?
And I'm like, I'm just really mad.
And they're looking at me like, And it's
I think one of the really cool things about increased diversity in the workplace is thatyou get an increased diversity in the way people respond and react to things.
(20:13):
And it becomes more normal that maybe what we see as typical male behavior, which hasbecome typical office behavior, isn't actually the norm.
And people are going to respond to different things in different ways.
And that's cool because there might be some guys out there that also cry when they're mad.
And so we're creating space for them.
really interesting.
It's just really interesting.
(20:34):
I too am a crier when I get frustrated or angry.
I always have been.
I've done it in a meeting in meetings before.
And I'm like, I'm just really frustrated right now.
But I'm going to talk through the tears.
I've learned to just say that now to preface the situation so people don't do like thecaretaking of like, are you okay?
Because
Now you're just embarrassing me and I don't need that either.
thinking back to my first like five years in the industry and displays the, would sayhyper masculine displays of emotion that I experienced for like screaming and punching and
(21:04):
yelling and all this over the topness.
But that was accepted and it still actually is sometimes.
Which is...
yeah.
interesting and I've had a situation as well in a performance review where I was gettingsome negative feedback and I burst into tears.
My boss is great and he was like, oh no, it's fine.
(21:25):
Like if you need a minute.
And I was like, I want you to know that I'm not crying because I can't accept thisfeedback like I am.
I'm actually just like kind of mad about it because I think it's like something that Ihave recognized in myself.
But like, I don't want you to stop giving me this feedback.
I'm not upset.
can't, it's not that I can't handle it.
I'm just responding to it in a different way than maybe other, many of my colleaguesmight.
(21:48):
Yeah, I would.
I've probably been there too.
And that to me is more about like, I'm frustrated with myself in this moment.
So I'm like, like, damn it.
Like, I thought I got in a hang of that kind of like, that's more.
And I think it's, I've had, and I've had, uh, mail direct reports to me that have cried,um, or just shown up in just this very like shut down kind of way.
(22:16):
And,
I approach them maybe differently than male leaders have done for them in the past.
And I think it facilitated them working through it faster and not feeling ashamed thatthey like this was their reaction.
I was like, well, we all have days.
Because I'm okay with this.
And I think the more diverse leadership and managers that we have in this industry andcolleagues that we can do that with, I think that's really important.
(22:44):
I also think it teaches our allies how to exercise those muscles.
You know, like there's a couple of people I work with on my day to day job and I've beenreally fucking frustrated, like mad, like angry.
And I call them up.
because I needed to vent.
This is literally, I'm not looking for you to solve anything.
(23:04):
I just need like 10 minutes of like, bah!
But I'm like cross sobbing at the same time.
And they're like, okay.
But 20 years ago, I would have never found that in this industry.
Yeah, yeah, my
that my direct boss, he's great if I ever need to talk things through and be like, I justneed to vent.
(23:26):
But then I have other colleagues that are fantastic.
I'm like, I just want to surround myself with people that won't ask and we'll just belike, let's just move on.
I'm like, great, that's all I want to do right now.
Let's go find those people and just sit with them.
And that's the cool thing is like no one has to be everything or be able to do it all.
we need space for everyone to realize their strengths so that you can be
(23:48):
that person that someone goes to when they need a certain type of support.
absolutely.
That's such a great observation.
I really appreciate that one.
Makes me think about like how to be a leader myself and show up in this space for...
yes, 100 % that.
pivoting over to, you know, there's these challenges we have, but...
(24:10):
I know Holmes does like a lot of great things for community and younger folks trying tocome into the industry.
Do you have any examples you could share with us?
I want I love always love the holiday like card that y'all send out because it's aboutit's just an electronic card of service to others.
So you want to speak a little bit about some of that because I think it's great.
Yeah, giving back to our communities a pretty core thing of what we do at HolmesSolutions.
(24:36):
We really truly believe in it.
Our team is more mechanical engineer heavy than like structural and civil.
And so even compared to the civil engineering department, mechanical engineering is evenlower in terms of the number of females coming through.
And so we have been working with a few programs that really encourage kids to think aboutcareers in engineering and realize how creative and how much of a problem solver they are.
(25:05):
And so there's a few folks like myself that are involved in like various mentoringprograms at high schools.
But we also do work with a program called EPRO8, which is like an engineering problemsolving program.
And so we actually host that competition in our lab.
So we have this big, you know, I think it's 45,000 square feet R &D facility with allsorts of test machines and mills and lathes and CNC machines.
(25:32):
And we actually clear some space for the kids to come in and sort of build, yeah, buildtheir projects and test them out as part of the competitions in that lab space.
And in the past, we've had school groups through and I don't know if you did this in highschool maybe,
but like, you know, the spaghetti challenge, you've got spaghetti and marshmallows and youtry to build these structures as high as you can.
(25:54):
Yeah, or you have like, straws and tape and basically, yeah, getting people to buildstructures, well, we often then put them on our shake table and actually shake them.
So they get to see, you know, New Zealand kids know what an earthquake feels like.
So like seeing how can design buildings to be safer is really fun.
(26:15):
And just...
It's really cool when you engage with students in the engineering space because you know,there's no budgets, there's no red tape or anything that we deal with in the industry.
So it's, just this huge creative thought process.
And for me, I really love it as well, because I go into a local high school once a weekand in there.
(26:37):
current term and run the ACE mentoring program.
And the skill set that these kids have and are bringing to the industry, they're modelingand rev it already.
And the creativity that they have is cool.
And sometimes you have to give them a little bit of a push being like, you don't actuallyhave a budget right now, like you can do whatever you want.
(26:58):
But to get them really excited and engaged in thinking big, so they can kind of see thatthey'll be able to bring some of that to our industry.
it's
It's a space where you can explore.
So it's really fun.
I enjoy it a lot and I learn a lot.
I was gonna say, feel like there's a lot of criticism folks give some of the youngergeneration, right?
(27:18):
I've heard so much of it.
But I think the flip side is we have so much to learn from them if we can just calm ourassumptions and calm down the fact that, yeah, they're all digital and they have a device
in their hand 24 seven probably, but
their skill and ability with those things is far beyond what mine ever probably will be.
(27:41):
And I'm OK with that.
Because in 20 years, I probably won't even be able to comprehend what the people I'mleading are doing because they're just they're so it's just so different.
You know, I look at like there's coding camps for girls.
I think those are amazing.
Like part of me wants to like, can I just take like a month off and just go do that forlike as an adult woman?
(28:02):
And I have an adult woman camp.
for coding I think it's really awesome that folks show up to mentor youth because if theysee examples that look like them, they're more likely to be like, I can also do that.
I was at the California Conference for Women yesterday and some of the main speakers,Simone Biles, right?
(28:24):
Who is one of our incredible path and journey and
just oldest gymnasts to have competed and she was one of the first black gymnasts andhearing her story and specifically she's doing the same thing is I want to be an example
to others and say look she looks like me and she's there I can also do it and I feel likethat's kind of doing those kind of programs is what we can do.
(28:48):
Yeah, and it's it is kind of interesting as well to make sure you're not feeling a littlebit threatened by it.
And I don't know if you found this, but I remember when I had been a graduate for maybe acouple of years and also especially this year, we just had the most amazing group of
summer interns come through at Solutions.
and they come in and they're like doing this stuff and you're like, I don't even know howto do this.
(29:12):
And it's really tempting to be like, gosh, like these people are, you know, coming from ajob or like, and it's really important to realize that we're here to try and make it
easier for people in the future and to learn from them and to do everything we can in ourpower to make sure that their road is easier.
They aim higher and they achieve more than we ever have.
(29:33):
And yeah, it's pretty cool.
But it's also a little bit like, what?
Yeah, it's a little, I would imagine every generational shift in industry that can feelthreatening.
And I have one of my other interviews we were reflecting on examples of women when I firstcame into the industry There were very few women in the industry.
And the way that you were often treated was
(29:57):
more in this antagonistic relationship of like, can't let you climb too high because Ineed to keep my spot.
And this like competition feeling, I don't feel like we need to do that anymore.
That's not the goal here.
Like we need to work together to bring everybody along.
Yeah.
Yeah, and it's, it kind of reminds me of like...
I don't know if you have this with your parents occasionally, but they're like, in my daywe had to do this and it was so hard.
(30:21):
And you're like, yes, but you wanted it to be easier for us.
I just want to remind you of that.
And it's a similar thing.
like, if we feel like we fought for our positions in our roles and I'm going to admit, Idon't really feel like I had to, I was really supported the whole way.
But if people are feeling like they really had to fight tooth and nail to get where theywere and to be accepted, and then they're looking at people and like, well, you haven't
(30:43):
had to fight as hard.
It's like, yeah, that was the point.
That's entire point.
Yeah, it's funny, I've also, because of working a lot in R &D and innovation space,weirdly enough, I've had people who also work in that space turn to me and say, but this
is how it's always been done.
And I'm like.
most dangerous phrase in the English language.
(31:04):
Yes, and the whole point of what we're trying to do is to change that, make it better,improve upon it, analyze it, acknowledge that it doesn't work.
Like, that productivity curve of construction hasn't changed for a long time for a reasonbecause of that statement right there.
And it's interesting to me when people say that because at one point we also only hadbuggies and horses.
(31:31):
Yeah.
point we only had rocks and not an actual hammer.
my observation, which is partially an assumption, is people say that because they'reafraid of the change that might come that then they feel like they might become obsolete.
Like that's not how it has to be.
That's not how it has to be.
You can choose to
be different about that.
(31:52):
I want in 10 years for kind of my skill set to be irrelevant.
I want the new generation to come knock it out of the park and someday talk about us oldtimers.
We have enough problems to solve.
There's room for everyone.
Right.
Yes.
So true.
So this is the fun question I try to ask everybody towards the end if you could give youryounger self coming into the industry, one piece of advice, what would it be?
(32:18):
think it would be to trust more in my strengths and where they'll take me.
Obviously, engineering is a really technical career and I started off my job at homes andhomes across Australia, New Zealand and America, as the top technical people.
You're surrounded by really smart people and I remember just feeling super intimidated bythat.
(32:42):
But what I quickly realized is, and maybe some other women will relate to this, but I havesome really strong strengths when it comes to communication and building relationships.
And I started to get invited to more client networking events and all of this, which waspretty rare as a junior graduate.
And I remember going to a networking event, I think it was a Christmas party actually forone of the projects I was working on.
(33:07):
And as I was walking out of the event with one of my colleagues,
like, wow, great job.
Like, I just watched you, you completely worked that room, you went around, you talked toeverybody.
And you did it in a way that no one felt that you were like ditching them after a coupleof minutes.
And I was like, like I hadn't really thought about it.
I remembered when I walked into the room, I'd be like, you know what, I need to make sureI touch bases with everyone here and connect with them.
(33:28):
But it hadn't been something that I actively had to really try.
And so I kind of was sort of thinking about that.
And then two weeks later, we had an issue on the job site.
Where it's kind of classic maybe the structural drawings weren't quite as detailed or aswell done as they should have been and then the general contractor instead of bringing to
clarify had made an assumption picked a root and happened to be the wrong one so we'regonna have to do a little bit of rework and I remember finding this out and being like my
(33:56):
gosh I'm so stressed like it might take and I remember walking into the meeting room andsitting down with general contractor who I'd spent some time with a few weeks ago I was
like hey, I think I think we might have messed up a bit.
I think you've
messed up a bit, just to clarify, New Zealand's not quite as litigious, so you can saythat a little bit more or less.
And he was like, yeah, no worries.
And it was the fact that we'd already built this relationship meant that we just sat downlike, right, what needs to happen?
(34:20):
What do you need from me?
How can we work this out?
And how can we do it?
And I started to realize how valuable that would be.
And that's kind of what...
lead me to my current role was that ability to create and form those relationships withpeople.
And so there's sometimes where it feels like, you know, being a woman is a huge benefit.
(34:40):
Like I work in business development.
I go to conferences where one of my main jobs is to be memorable.
So here I am, foreign female that's, you know, younger.
So I'm really different to everyone else.
I've already got this advantage.
And so I think one of my piece of advice is like, use them.
Don't be afraid to be
this is a strength of mine, I can use it to take me places where I want to go like livingin the States and working with these really cool companies.
(35:06):
And don't be so afraid of the things that you perceive as being weaker and don't thinkthat they're necessarily going to hold you back.
Just lean into what you can do because not everyone can do that.
Absolutely.
yeah, I think owning those differences is really important.
It can be a challenge, especially when you're younger and newer in the industry.
But even if you're coming into it from another industry and you're transferring over,authentically leaning into it, owning it, I think is super important.
(35:32):
find that network of women.
Mm-hmm.
to connect with and have that same support or similar support that you might have had incollege or trade school or high school So, well, man and I wish we had more time because I
love talking with you and you are memorable.
You're one of my favorite people I've met in the last two years in my current role and Ilove talking to you.
(35:55):
I love just how
creative our conversations get.
So, super, super thankful that you took the time to come be on the podcast today and Ihope everybody enjoyed the conversation.
There will be a lot more because we're trying to roll out, I think up to 15 interviews forWomen in Construction Week, so we'll see.
But thanks, Harriet.
Thanks for coming on.
thanks for having me.
(36:20):
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of The Construction Cafe.
We hope you found our conversation as inspiring as your next big project.
Remember, you can dive deeper into the resources and topics we discuss by connecting withus on LinkedIn and Instagram.
Just search for The Construction Cafe.
Don't miss out on future episodes.
Be sure to follow us on Spotify, Podbean, and Apple Podcasts to keep the conversationgoing.
(36:44):
If you're passionate about the construction industry and have a story to share, we'd loveto hear from you.
Visit our website at the constructioncafe.com and drop us a note.
Let's keep building together.
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