March 5, 2025 • 38 mins
Bridging the gap between design and construction takes creativity, communication, and a whole lot of problem-solving—just ask Eva Talbot. With a career that’s taken her from architecture to modular construction to tackling inefficiencies in building, Eva brings a unique perspective on how the industry can evolve. She shares hard-earned lessons from the startup world, why thinking differently is key to progress, and how collaboration can drive real change. If you’re ready to challenge the status quo and explore the future of construction, this episode is for you! #WICWEEK2025
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Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Welcome to the Construction Cafe, where the buzz of the construction industry meets thewarmth of a friendly conversation.
I'm your host, Tristen Magallanes.
Join me at our virtual cafe as we explore the foundations of construction culture, sip oncutting edge concepts, and amplify the unspoken voices in our industry.
So grab a cup of your favorite beverage, pull up a seat, and let's build more than juststructures, let's build connections.
(00:33):
This is the Construction Cafe.
hey everyone, welcome back for another episode of Construction Cafe.
We are continuing our amazing series for Women in Construction Week.
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It might spill over into the whole month, but it is also Women's History Month, so I'mhere for it.
And today we are joined with Eva Talbot.
Eva, welcome to the show.
Thank you, thank you.
Tell me a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your role in construction, maybesomething fun.
I am currently a senior design construction integrator, at Lease Crutcher Lewis here inSeattle.
(01:18):
But what that role is, is I I joke that sometimes the job is, I'm the fixer.
So I, it's a newly created role, even though we're starting to see kind of the rise of arole like this in other companies that are in construction.
But my
Primary task is to ensure that design intent really transcends how we buy and build ourprojects.
(01:41):
But in order to do that, there's kind of, that's like the tip of the iceberg.
Everything else underneath is really a drive towards efficiency and improvement.
And with Leaning heavily to do that in just really early.
integration, obviously, but the root of that is really collaboration through communicationwith our design partners, know, manufacturers, anything that you'd really start to ideally
(02:05):
want to tap in as early as possible.
That's what I'm doing.
My backgrounds, how I got here has been a little circuitous.
So I started my career as an architect.
I worked as a design architect for over a decade in the city of Seattle, licensed allthat, did a lot of high rise TOD work and I could
know, work to walk to all my job sites.
(02:26):
And then I did.
Yeah, it was awesome.
It was great.
You know, boomtown in Seattle, and then moved on to did a stint in some kind of realestate strategy, but still from the design side.
So figuring out how to make these projects pencil.
And then I joined Katara, right.
(02:49):
So I was there for yeah, for about
Four years I joked that I went down with the ship.
was returning post bankruptcy, because I was one of the joint patent holders on theproducts we had developed.
But that really kind of whet my whistle for, well, obviously I knew things could be builtbetter.
They could be designed more efficiently.
(03:13):
A lot of things went wrong, but a lot of things went really right there too.
And then I had the opportunity
along with just a stellar group of directors that had originally been at Katerra to open aoffice in Seattle for a UK, essentially a modular startup and did that for a while and
just got, I mean, candidly got really burnt out on startups.
(03:36):
It's a tough scene and wanted to be working back in the city I live in.
And working on projects that give back to my community and this position.
I had been in conversations about what it looks like two years ago, decided not to do it,go work out of that London based company and then came back and realized this is really
where I think we can be most effective in the built environment is ultimately withbuilder, right?
(03:59):
Cause you can design things however you want to, but it has to get built.
And so here I am.
Yeah, thinking because we work in this industry, right?
So we're speaking the same language.
I'm thinking about how would I describe your role to, you know, a 16 year old high schoolstudent.
Oh yeah, so the way I describe it is it's really harnessing creativity and designthinking, but applying it instead of what's being done to how you do it.
(04:30):
And to me, that's like just an open frontier of creativity, because you can design thingsagain and again, and people do like a, you know, there's beauty in building a career on
that, but...
I think there's a lot of value in taking the ability to think that way and turning ittowards how you do your work, not just what the work is.
(04:53):
I think, so if I was talking to someone in high school who's interested in architecture orengineering or something like that, or maybe even construction to know that there's really
like alternate career pathways that are available that you don't even know exist, I thinkit's a really, it's a really compelling story because.
It means you can do it all if you want to.
Our careers are very long and we can do a lot of things.
(05:17):
You can.
jump into this side or this side.
There's manufacturing.
You mentioned modular.
There's design.
There's the actual builders.
There's such a wide array of how to exist in this industry that I just don't think peoplethink of when they think of women in construction.
100%.
(05:37):
I'm thinking about to like being my 16 year old self and hearing what you're saying withthe creativity and it's this this communication and this bridge and this gap of designing
and then the people who actually have to put the work in place and meshing that together.
getting it all together and early, right?
Because that's where we find the most success.
It's as early.
(05:58):
that can happen.
know this agnostic of delivery models.
You can show up as a good partner on both sides of the table even earlier.
And that's what I'm really into right now at this phase of my career.
Yeah, well, that's the, and I love that you just said that because that's the fun part ofthere can be different phases of your.
(06:19):
There's so many.
The last interview I just, I was just on, there was a conversation, they too werearchitect trained, know, a licensed architect, then pivoted and there's so many
opportunities that I just get so excited.
You also said the words design thinking, which is like.
a big thing for me.
(06:39):
I teach design thinking, I facilitate workshops, I create workshops internally at mycurrent company, but it's also just have been a huge passion of mine in general.
And it's just a framework of creating, human centered design.
And it's this like, how are we serving the people, the humans that exist inside thedesign, because at the end of the day, those are the people that have to use it.
(07:05):
and exist in it.
And that's really important.
And I think that gets lost sometimes because it's so much more about does it cost theamount of All these other things are conflated, which are all important.
static.
Yeah, you need to consider them.
But yeah, so I get super excited about that.
And if anybody ever wants to nerd out on design thinking, I'm here for it.
We don't need to do that right now, though.
(07:27):
So thinking back a little bit into your career, is there one challenge or one moment intime that you were either super challenged by or alternatively this thing you think back
of like, I'm so damn proud of this.
Or you can answer both.
So I really, you know, it's funny, we're just talking about phases of careers.
(07:50):
I think you could identify one for each phase of the career.
Like when I was heavily on the design side, it was really, you know, it really challengingto understand almost that kind of.
what I would refer to now as client care aspect of design, right?
Where you're working, you've got your client, you have to figure out almost how to readthem to like get it, get them to buy into what's being designed or making sure you
(08:17):
understand them.
And then there's like all the mechanics of actually getting the design done.
There's that.
I would say probably what I'm most proud of in my career is when I look back,
though super challenging, the time in the startups is probably where I had the mostprofessional and honestly technical growth ever because it was really challenging to
(08:41):
operate in a high pressure environment.
But because of it, it was like a joke.
It's like dog years, right?
So it was like four years of my life that felt probably more like 15 and
you're not wrong.
No, it really is.
Right.
It really is.
But I came out on the other side, even though, you know, was people are like, well, theywent bankrupt.
(09:03):
It's like, well, they all go bankrupt until they don't.
Most businesses do.
And what I learned and what we produced as a team was like elevated the position of theentire industry to move forward to what's next.
And that's me when I look back.
(09:23):
is really the most satisfying at this point and got me to where I needed to be to thenmove, I think, the natural progression.
If you go from design to design for manufacturing to manufacturing is to construction.
And so I'm about a year into this new role and I'm loving it and I'm very excited forwhat's up next.
(09:46):
Yeah.
does feel like almost more of a career shift than I've ever had.
Even going from design to manufacturing, yes, this is even more of one.
Yeah, it's very exciting.
and you, a lot of people, think, because I've known a fair amount of people who were partof the Katara group and the whole situation.
I get so excited about that in general, though, because we as an industry learned so much.
(10:13):
And leaning into fail fast and just like, let's just fucking go.
Yeah.
Yes.
I think there's so much value in that.
the converse is existing on the builder side for so much of my career.
It's like, we have to produce profit, we have to hit schedules, we have to do all thisother stuff.
(10:33):
And I'm like, yeah, and we also need to learn to fail and be okay with it and learn fromit.
And that's really, hard
It's so hard.
It's so hard to like move people into almost like, and this is where I borrow from my likeDFMA experience is like a testing mindset where this isn't perfect, but what we have now
(10:54):
isn't perfect, right?
And we're going to test it and we're going to make it configurable so it can, you know, itcan apply to a bunch of different projects and sectors and all this, but I need your
feedback.
This isn't a one way thing.
This is a continuous.
improvement loop.
This is how we do it.
And so that's introducing, I think, a new way of thinking.
People are open to new because I think we know the way things have been happening is notsustainable.
(11:19):
Right?
We all know the metrics about how construction hasn't improved in centuries and blah,blah, blah.
So what I'm seeing is at least my peers our leadership.
everyone knows something needs to change.
And so they're looking to the people who are like, well, I can bring this experience withme to indicate how we can move forward or we can borrow these practices from product and
(11:40):
manufacturing and even design to improve construction and even, you know, kind of, it'slike building a web of knowledge and best practices.
Yeah.
absolutely.
I don't know.
My brain just rabbit holed to the fact that I just bought a new modular couch and I was Ihad never bought a couch like that before.
I just bought your standard like three seat cushion, whatever, whatever.
(12:03):
And this whole experience of like designing my couch with these preset modules and piecesand parts and I'm how awesome is this?
So thinking of
you know, obviously on a larger scale building.
for people who maybe don't have the concept of what that means, go check out Lovesac andgo to the store and play around with it because that helps you understand sort of that
(12:26):
shifting of a mindset of building differently.
And I was literally just talking with my husband about it.
So it's kind of funny.
I don't think you can.
do it for everything, but I think there's a lot of it that we can change And there'sopportunities for, I think, people to make career shifts into construction.
(12:47):
So not just new folks coming into the construction, but there's ability to take whatyou've learned in another industry and bring it here and actually add value to help making
these shifts.
when I...
I often talk to people about, you know, Women in Construction Week and there are a lot ofthem are focused on up and coming new people to the industry and young women.
I'm like, there's also all these amazing women in other industries that have amazingability and skill and knowledge that can bring it here and add value.
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Yes, become part of this, become part of our group.
Because I love, you know,
Even academia, like my background is not construction or architecture design based.
Mine is anthropology and psychology.
Most people are like, what?
Oh no, those are excellent things to bring to the industry.
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really is.
I think actually the psychology aspect of it, that's, you know, people have asked mebefore, like, what does it take to be successful in this role?
And I feel like it's honestly 55 % soft skills, right?
Like, can you communicate?
Can you help bring consensus to get to a decision?
(14:00):
Or we all know consensus isn't.
possible in a lot of cases, but do people feel like they had input to get us to the pointwe want to be at?
And I think that that is, you you need like the technical and the hard skills, but youneed to be able to bring these other perspectives to the work you do.
I totally agree.
And I think it's, again, going back to earlier part of this conversation of like, there'sall these different opportunities.
(14:23):
So I think it's very viable option to shift careers into this industry, regardless of yourage.
It's also viable to enter the trades even at a different age, because I know people wholike 30s, 40s.
for whatever reason the current career they were in or economy shifts and changes,childcare needs, whatever it might be, shifted into the trades actually.
(14:47):
I am fricking here for that.
Yeah.
I also am really eager for trades to become a to be viewed and I think we're getting thereis as viable or career pathway as the traditional four year college.
Like I can speak personally.
have two daughters right and one of them already.
(15:08):
I'm like should be a fierce little carpenter like naturally like at the skill set themechanical mindset and
So what can I do to get her into these things to at least give it, like at least exploreit and know that there's this world of opportunity out there and really like engaging and
fulfilling work that doesn't always look like how some things have been laid out.
(15:31):
I I'll level, because I'm totally like open and honest.
My husband is a union member.
He makes the same amount of money as I do.
And he has opportunity to work overtime and earn more.
And his benefits are great.
And with his career, they have different shifts.
So there's different shift work.
(15:52):
So it's not just normal day hours.
He works night shift and he actually likes it.
There's also swing shift options.
So I'm like, yeah, there's there's opportunity there to exist in this industry in alldifferent ways.
And there are there are challenges that I see for for some of that, because women stillare largely the caretakers of children and family members and elderly folks.
(16:14):
And so I think that, you know, bringing equity into the industry means addressing thosethose those areas.
it definitely needs to be.
address like it needs.
I mean, we need like a systemic solution to but I hear you on that.
But I it's very it'll be interesting to see what the level of like tech disruption startsto look like in the next decade or two as like this new generation is starting to move
(16:38):
through what education looks like.
And at least where I sit in Seattle, there are a number of groups that are actively tryingto pull girls because they're really young.
just exposing them to it just so you know it's an option because I think a lot of peopledon't even know it exists out there.
It's very exciting.
mean, our, our, we're foster parents and our third foster kiddo was a young, young woman,young girl, just came out of her shell when she got into our home.
(17:04):
And, we, she fit in with our family like immediately, which is not always what happens.
And I remember there was these bookends that I really wanted.
They were like made out of metal and these cool like,
abstract thing.
And my husband and her were disappearing in the garage.
And they're like, you can't come in.
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I'm like, okay, what are you doing?
I can't tell you.
Okay.
So for my birthday, they had made these crafted these bookends together in the garage.
And she had never done stuff like that.
And she had also had never had like a male father figure in her life.
So come to find out he had her in their
13 years old welding and she was like all on it.
(17:49):
mean he covered protective gear all this stuff and she welded them with him and helpedmake them for me.
And it was like the coolest thing because I was like we need more people man or woman tolean into teaching their kids these kinds of things from an early age so it's just
normalized that anyone can do these things.
(18:10):
And she was so freaking proud of herself.
It's like one of my favorite.
And he caught some of her welding on video for me so I could see it later.
And it's like the coolest thing.
Well, and it's a confidence builder too.
And I think there's something about like the immediacy of making things, right?
Cause I actually, even before architecture school, I had a fine arts background.
left art school to go to architecture school.
(18:32):
And there is something about the tactility of the work you do that is deeply satisfying.
And I think that any, if you already have a desire and that, you know, that kind of feedsyou a little bit, even if that sounds corny, like there's so many things you can do.
also think there's a bridge to understanding physically how things are go together intodesign.
(18:57):
And I do think there are some people who can do everything on a computer on a designsystem or drawing and their brain can make sense of that.
think other people need need something different.
I'm a neuro spicy individual, I recognize that people might describe something to me andI'm like, No, no, no, no, I have to draw it and then I have to like,
craft it and then I can understand it.
(19:18):
And I think making space for that for different folks as well,
I agree because I think that, you know, a lot of what I handle too is like givingconstructive constructability feedback back to our partners because they're excellent
designers and they're very good at what they do.
And I've been on that side where you're just looking, you're just looking at the paper,right?
(19:43):
And there is
this whole, and this is where I like go back to my manufacturing experience of that likeconstant testing, the physical prototyping is so critical.
you know, connecting them to our general supers who have built everything under the sunand have excellent feedback, but figuring out, you know, where I sit is like, you need to
(20:04):
do the, you need to do it drawing because they aren't going to understand your markupnotes.
Like we're getting, we're getting everyone in the same room talking the same language.
And I think anytime you can provide that thread of feedback, you're providing knowledge toboth ends of it, right?
So your subject, your expert in constructability understands how they need to becommunicating with their next design partner.
(20:28):
And that design partner essentially now knows how something actually gets built.
Right.
And so that is like years of experience rolled into one, one email thread even.
So this is, I find this so exciting.
Yeah, it's so interesting to me.
Pivoting just a little bit, I was thinking, you've been in the industry in a coupledifferent capacities and for a minute, what are some changes that you've seen or changes
(20:54):
you want to see for bringing some equity into it for women in construction?
So first, I've just seen more women.
There are just more women coming into the fields, into all of AEC.
I think that that has happened in some ways organically because it starts earlier.
(21:17):
There's more interest in the college degree programs.
once you become like, it's like a 50.
50 class, right, instead of like, I don't know, like 25 % women to like half women.
And so that naturally like over a few professional generations, like matriculates up,right?
I still, this is where I think that a little more work needs to happen is.
(21:39):
And I just, don't think this will only benefit women.
I think it's going to benefit everyone is like actual attention to a life work balance.
And this isn't like, let everyone work from home.
It's not that it's like, it, that's a component of it.
But I think that just more general flexibility and I see it turning that way.
(22:00):
Right.
I do think maybe one benefit of all of us having to go.
a lot of us having to go remote over COVID for a while is understanding that like, yourbutt doesn't have to be in the seat for 10 hours a day.
It's, you know, my work schedule naturally kind of, it's intense days, you know, thetypical kind of nine to five.
(22:23):
And then there's, because my children are young, you know, there's the afterschool tonighttime.
And then I pick up and set myself up for success.
for the next morning in the evening, right?
So understanding that some people work that way and that's so it's some people just, know,are the 4 a.m.
to probably, you know, 1 p.m.
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scene too.
I think there's a lot there because I just think life is really complicated and it'sreally hard and it's a little bit more kind of breaking that kind of.
classic 10 hour a day in the office or in the job site trailer or in the plant orwhatever.
I think that there needs to be something happening there.
(23:09):
You're the second person to actually point out the flexibility.
I asked that question on the last interview and they almost exact same answer.
we have the technology to work the way we need to work to best support our lives.
I think that that conversation can get, I'm not sitting on the beach doing this stuff.
(23:31):
there's like everyone, it's, we don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.
And I still, I'm still in the office about 40 hours a week.
I actually really like it.
I like being on site.
I like being around my people, but
just a little more flexibility.
think that'll go a long way.
Also, you know, I, we see a lot of women leave the workforce at a certain age, I think, orchange to something different that's not as demanding, not like, or just has more
(24:01):
flexibility.
And I think they make that change because the flexibility is there.
I haven't looked up like much on that, but I would imagine that's probably true.
And yeah, I just, I definitely have had to relearn how to draw boundaries myself of when Ibecame a foster parent, the types of, I have to go to certain meetings and I have to be
(24:23):
present at court dates and.
It's choice I actively understood and took and also required that I just attend to thosethings.
so there are some nights where I'm answering emails at nine o'clock at night.
And I'm okay with that because it's just for an hour at nine o'clock at night.
But what I did is I put a message at the bottom of my email that said it's something tothe attune of like,
(24:46):
I recognize that this is not during normal working hours and I don't expect you tobasically answer me.
It's fine.
giving people that boundary of permission of just because I'm answering you at some funkyhour doesn't mean I'm expecting you to respond to me immediately.
And just creating that simple little message, I think might like help others on the otherside not be like, my God, they're working at nine o'clock at night.
(25:11):
I have to do that too.
I have to be with like,
I'm not, I don't want people to ever get that message from me.
And so I felt that was important to put on my email like signature.
It's so funny you said that because I actually just saw that come through on an emailsignature from one of our like amazing senior PMs.
And I was like, I'm stealing this from Michelle.
It's so good because it is, it's, and then you're not messing around with like delayedsend and all that, whatever.
(25:36):
We're all adults, right?
don't have the patience to do the delays send plans and then all that.
Like, I just don't.
But it's a permission to set boundary.
Even though I don't think you need my permission to set that boundary, I'm going to giveit to you anyway.
I think it helps.
things like that.
it's a form of like, you know, practicing what you preach to.
(25:59):
I think it's a solid thing.
It's solid, yeah.
So I think that's the biggest one I think that would benefit everyone, not just women, notjust parents, not just anything.
People have really complex lives.
And honestly, I'm just excited to see what the next few decades bring with even...
We're seeing even a swell of more, just more diverse groups entering college and comingin.
(26:22):
And we're seeing it on the trade side too.
There's more diverse groups coming in.
And so it almost feels like it's naturally gonna start to just grow.
I agree.
I think I'm really excited about the shifts that we will get to be present for over thenext, I would say, three to four decades.
(26:43):
And I do reflect back, right?
Like in my career of 25 years in the industry, I have seen a lot change.
I've also seen a lot not change.
And that can get incredibly infuriating of like, really?
We're still doing this?
but I think showing up as leaders, as mentors, offering, you know, a moment or a time orwhatever to other generations or people coming into the workforce, I think is really
(27:14):
important as service to them.
so yeah, it, thinking of that, is there any advice that you would want to give to
a young woman thinking about coming into this industry.
Yeah, I think what I would tell them is...
First, go for it, because there's no easy path anywhere, right?
You're gonna, I mean, you're gonna run into, no, like it's all a, like, you know, like Idecided not to be a fine artist and to become an architect, because I thought that that
(27:44):
meant, mean, it's all a hustle.
It's all, it's all, it's all hard work.
Like if it's hard work for, I think, great benefits, I would tell them you are picking acareer path that lets you impact.
built environment, which I think is one of the most powerful things you can do as a humanis to positively impact your built environment.
It touches your community.
It touches everything.
(28:06):
But so first go for it.
Everything's hard, but there is in particular, it's like a, you know, I'm an agedmillennial, geriatric millennial.
There's a whole
There's a whole swath of us in this leadership level ready to mentor you, waiting for youto come through the door and ready to mentor you, which I didn't have the benefit of.
(28:29):
I didn't have a female mentor at all.
And I wanted one desperately and they just didn't exist.
They just weren't there.
But we're here and we're ready, right?
And we're ready to like...
give you all the knowledge we have and all the support you need and help you navigate allthe hard parts and also advocate for you, which I think is even more important.
(28:54):
I was just gonna say, think there's a tenacity of the female leaders I've seen who arelike elder millennial Gen Xers that we've been through enough of the shit in this industry
and we're kind of at the point of like, and we're at the point of our career that theconfidence and network, we're like, no, I'm not gonna put up with that bullshit.
(29:16):
And I'm not gonna let you put up with that bullshit.
Cause I'm gonna step in and I'm gonna make sure the bullshit goes like,
I feel like there's enough of us that are like a kind of a force of nature at this pointthat we're just not gonna stand by and let it happen anymore.
so having coaching conversations and career advice and teaching you things, yes.
And also I'm gonna stand up with you if need be in a moment.
(29:40):
on your own, right?
Yeah.
And I kind of love that about the industry.
I wouldn't say every woman in the industry is there yet that are at the same level ofcareer and age as you and I, but I think there's enough of us that are.
I think there's enough and I think we've got like strong allies in a lot of men who arethe same age who are partners too.
And I think that that, I think there's a lot to leverage there.
(30:02):
There's like a whole network of support that's ready and.
I agree.
And I get so stoked when I meet just another male ally, right?
when I find another one, I'm like, you are in the circle now of trust And there's still alot to teach and for unfortunately that work of...
(30:24):
teaching other folks in different positions in the industry.
There's just a lot for them to learn to create spaces of equity and those allies can helpus do that.
We don't have to take that burden on alone.
you don't have to do it.
And sometimes it's even more powerful if it comes from others too, right?
We all know that.
I also think there's just a level of like sometimes you need to let that happen becausey'all some days I'm just fucking tired
(30:45):
Yeah, I've got a lot on my plate.
Like I don't have time to have the same conversation with you 15 times about the samefricking thing about women.
I just don't.
And maybe this person can do that with you and help you understand that better.
And then that's okay.
Like we don't need to solve it for everybody.
you don't have to delegation, right?
That's how we got here anyway.
(31:09):
Any advice you would, this is one of my favorite questions to ask everybody.
I think everybody in this series is gonna get asked this one.
Any advice you would give your younger self?
Oh my gosh, I think about this all the time.
I think if I could go back and talk to like 23 year old me, like first of all, I wouldtell myself it's gonna be okay.
(31:30):
Like you're, it's really gonna work out fine.
Second, would have like gone back and told myself that the mentors that were in my circle,particularly when I was very,
young in my career is that sometimes what you will learn most from them is how not to beas opposed to how to be.
(31:55):
Right?
Like I...
You nailed that comment right there for me too.
I think back on like some of the most impactful mentors and it was really that I watchedthem how they conducted themselves professionally and I thought or how they managed others
and I thought well the one thing I can take from this is I'm never going to do it thisway.
Like I'm never going to treat people this way.
(32:16):
I'm never going to run it this way.
I'm not going to use fear as a tactic ever.
I'm going to be individualized and that's what I would tell myself now.
Would you listen to yourself?
know, I, and that, and that even if you don't, and this took me a while to like recognize,even if you can't find your mentor, you do have advocates in your circle and don't be
(32:43):
afraid to talk to them.
Cause you're, you know, when you're young and you're early in your career, you're a littlemore self-conscious, but like, just reach out to them.
Most people love to be reached out to.
Oh, and it doesn't have to be somebody in your company.
actually think that's actually helpful to reach out to someone else.
(33:04):
Yeah, I, when I was still on the design side, I remember I reached out to a developer wehad worked with like a ton at the firm I was at.
And she was just an amazing developer in the city of Seattle.
And I had no idea what I was going to do next with my career.
And I still can't believe I just, did it.
So still pretty young, but I just called her and I was like, can I take you out to coffee?
(33:26):
I just need to talk to someone.
And she was like, of course.
And I was like,
Hahaha!
you know you're calling someone to ask them on a date, that's how old I am, right?
And you're like, but just leverage those connections because they are connections for areason.
They feel like a connection because they do, it's real, it's real on both sides.
And so, yeah, exactly.
I mean, I secretly want to just create like a freaking force of women in the industry,like that is a legacy we leave behind.
(33:55):
So sure, hit me up.
Well, we're getting close to wrapping up here.
So my final thing that I love asking people is, is there...
one, two, three women in this industry that you feel need a shout out.
And it could be somebody who's mentored you, could just be some of you doing badass work.
(34:15):
Like who's some shout outs we need to be thinking about?
I've got some, I thought about this, I've got some clear shout outs.
So when I think back to my like design for manufacturing era, it's really, there were,there are just really clear powerhouses operating on this edge of design and manufacturing
(34:36):
and construction.
So, you know, Janet Stephenson right?
One of the best communicators I've ever worked with, right?
Cassie Mass is an operations wonderkin and I learned more from her than I could haveimagined, right?
We've got Kara Marx who can bring any product to market with elegance, grace andbrilliance.
(35:00):
Jen Caldwell, we came up as baby architects together and, but we were a combined forcewith a lot of product development just to
beautiful mind at getting things done.
And then also Rochelle Hill, who's like a modular prefab, exceptional technicalindividual.
you know, coming from there.
And then as I'm moving into construction, right, the president of our Washington operationis an incredible woman, Cori-Ann Presser is fantastic.
(35:28):
And then also I work very closely and can't understate that
Shannon Testa also with Lewis runs one of our largest sectors and all of our concreteself-perform and structure self-perform.
these, those two that I'm working with daily have just done, it's just incredible, justincredible women knocking it out of the park like day after day.
(35:52):
That's awesome.
just, I feel like all of the people that get shout outs, because everybody's doing this onevery single episode.
I feel like every single person that we mention is someone you could reach out to if youwant advice.
Like, I hear names of people who we, you find them on LinkedIn, and I guarantee you theywould give you some time.
(36:15):
So.
talk to you about what they do and how it attaches to construction or supports it or justreally it's, it's, there's just so many people out there who are generous with time.
And, you know, myself included, I will respond to just about anyone.
So.
Yeah, same, unless you're just trying to sell me something and then I'm.
(36:36):
you're trying to sell me something then please know or if you want me to like be part ofyour funding round, no.
Yeah, I mean I do as part of my primary role answer those those as well, but that'sdifferent context Well anything else you wanted to add or like any any final thoughts or
anything?
I guess I would just add that like you, think what's gonna strengthen construction movingforward is bringing in people with a diversity of background skill sets and the way they
(37:03):
approach problem solving.
And I think we're seeing that happen.
And that's what makes me most excited for the future.
think it's all there for us.
So I really appreciate you coming on today.
And yeah, thank you.
(37:24):
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of The Construction Cafe.
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(37:48):
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Let's keep building better together.
Welcome to the Construction Cafe, where the buzz of the construction industry meets thewarmth of a friendly conversation.
I'm your host, Tristen Magallanes.
Join me at our virtual cafe as we explore the foundations of construction culture, sip oncutting edge concepts, and amplify the unspoken voices in our industry.
So grab a cup of your favorite beverage, pull up a seat, and let's build more than juststructures, let's build connections.
(00:33):
This is the Construction Cafe.
hey everyone, welcome back for another episode of Construction Cafe.
We are continuing our amazing series for Women in Construction Week.
(00:54):
It might spill over into the whole month, but it is also Women's History Month, so I'mhere for it.
And today we are joined with Eva Talbot.
Eva, welcome to the show.
Thank you, thank you.
Tell me a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your role in construction, maybesomething fun.
I am currently a senior design construction integrator, at Lease Crutcher Lewis here inSeattle.
(01:18):
But what that role is, is I I joke that sometimes the job is, I'm the fixer.
So I, it's a newly created role, even though we're starting to see kind of the rise of arole like this in other companies that are in construction.
But my
Primary task is to ensure that design intent really transcends how we buy and build ourprojects.
(01:41):
But in order to do that, there's kind of, that's like the tip of the iceberg.
Everything else underneath is really a drive towards efficiency and improvement.
And with Leaning heavily to do that in just really early.
integration, obviously, but the root of that is really collaboration through communicationwith our design partners, know, manufacturers, anything that you'd really start to ideally
(02:05):
want to tap in as early as possible.
That's what I'm doing.
My backgrounds, how I got here has been a little circuitous.
So I started my career as an architect.
I worked as a design architect for over a decade in the city of Seattle, licensed allthat, did a lot of high rise TOD work and I could
know, work to walk to all my job sites.
(02:26):
And then I did.
Yeah, it was awesome.
It was great.
You know, boomtown in Seattle, and then moved on to did a stint in some kind of realestate strategy, but still from the design side.
So figuring out how to make these projects pencil.
And then I joined Katara, right.
(02:49):
So I was there for yeah, for about
Four years I joked that I went down with the ship.
was returning post bankruptcy, because I was one of the joint patent holders on theproducts we had developed.
But that really kind of whet my whistle for, well, obviously I knew things could be builtbetter.
They could be designed more efficiently.
(03:13):
A lot of things went wrong, but a lot of things went really right there too.
And then I had the opportunity
along with just a stellar group of directors that had originally been at Katerra to open aoffice in Seattle for a UK, essentially a modular startup and did that for a while and
just got, I mean, candidly got really burnt out on startups.
(03:36):
It's a tough scene and wanted to be working back in the city I live in.
And working on projects that give back to my community and this position.
I had been in conversations about what it looks like two years ago, decided not to do it,go work out of that London based company and then came back and realized this is really
where I think we can be most effective in the built environment is ultimately withbuilder, right?
(03:59):
Cause you can design things however you want to, but it has to get built.
And so here I am.
Yeah, thinking because we work in this industry, right?
So we're speaking the same language.
I'm thinking about how would I describe your role to, you know, a 16 year old high schoolstudent.
Oh yeah, so the way I describe it is it's really harnessing creativity and designthinking, but applying it instead of what's being done to how you do it.
(04:30):
And to me, that's like just an open frontier of creativity, because you can design thingsagain and again, and people do like a, you know, there's beauty in building a career on
that, but...
I think there's a lot of value in taking the ability to think that way and turning ittowards how you do your work, not just what the work is.
(04:53):
I think, so if I was talking to someone in high school who's interested in architecture orengineering or something like that, or maybe even construction to know that there's really
like alternate career pathways that are available that you don't even know exist, I thinkit's a really, it's a really compelling story because.
It means you can do it all if you want to.
Our careers are very long and we can do a lot of things.
(05:17):
You can.
jump into this side or this side.
There's manufacturing.
You mentioned modular.
There's design.
There's the actual builders.
There's such a wide array of how to exist in this industry that I just don't think peoplethink of when they think of women in construction.
100%.
(05:37):
I'm thinking about to like being my 16 year old self and hearing what you're saying withthe creativity and it's this this communication and this bridge and this gap of designing
and then the people who actually have to put the work in place and meshing that together.
getting it all together and early, right?
Because that's where we find the most success.
It's as early.
(05:58):
that can happen.
know this agnostic of delivery models.
You can show up as a good partner on both sides of the table even earlier.
And that's what I'm really into right now at this phase of my career.
Yeah, well, that's the, and I love that you just said that because that's the fun part ofthere can be different phases of your.
(06:19):
There's so many.
The last interview I just, I was just on, there was a conversation, they too werearchitect trained, know, a licensed architect, then pivoted and there's so many
opportunities that I just get so excited.
You also said the words design thinking, which is like.
a big thing for me.
(06:39):
I teach design thinking, I facilitate workshops, I create workshops internally at mycurrent company, but it's also just have been a huge passion of mine in general.
And it's just a framework of creating, human centered design.
And it's this like, how are we serving the people, the humans that exist inside thedesign, because at the end of the day, those are the people that have to use it.
(07:05):
and exist in it.
And that's really important.
And I think that gets lost sometimes because it's so much more about does it cost theamount of All these other things are conflated, which are all important.
static.
Yeah, you need to consider them.
But yeah, so I get super excited about that.
And if anybody ever wants to nerd out on design thinking, I'm here for it.
We don't need to do that right now, though.
(07:27):
So thinking back a little bit into your career, is there one challenge or one moment intime that you were either super challenged by or alternatively this thing you think back
of like, I'm so damn proud of this.
Or you can answer both.
So I really, you know, it's funny, we're just talking about phases of careers.
(07:50):
I think you could identify one for each phase of the career.
Like when I was heavily on the design side, it was really, you know, it really challengingto understand almost that kind of.
what I would refer to now as client care aspect of design, right?
Where you're working, you've got your client, you have to figure out almost how to readthem to like get it, get them to buy into what's being designed or making sure you
(08:17):
understand them.
And then there's like all the mechanics of actually getting the design done.
There's that.
I would say probably what I'm most proud of in my career is when I look back,
though super challenging, the time in the startups is probably where I had the mostprofessional and honestly technical growth ever because it was really challenging to
(08:41):
operate in a high pressure environment.
But because of it, it was like a joke.
It's like dog years, right?
So it was like four years of my life that felt probably more like 15 and
you're not wrong.
No, it really is.
Right.
It really is.
But I came out on the other side, even though, you know, was people are like, well, theywent bankrupt.
(09:03):
It's like, well, they all go bankrupt until they don't.
Most businesses do.
And what I learned and what we produced as a team was like elevated the position of theentire industry to move forward to what's next.
And that's me when I look back.
(09:23):
is really the most satisfying at this point and got me to where I needed to be to thenmove, I think, the natural progression.
If you go from design to design for manufacturing to manufacturing is to construction.
And so I'm about a year into this new role and I'm loving it and I'm very excited forwhat's up next.
(09:46):
Yeah.
does feel like almost more of a career shift than I've ever had.
Even going from design to manufacturing, yes, this is even more of one.
Yeah, it's very exciting.
and you, a lot of people, think, because I've known a fair amount of people who were partof the Katara group and the whole situation.
I get so excited about that in general, though, because we as an industry learned so much.
(10:13):
And leaning into fail fast and just like, let's just fucking go.
Yeah.
Yes.
I think there's so much value in that.
the converse is existing on the builder side for so much of my career.
It's like, we have to produce profit, we have to hit schedules, we have to do all thisother stuff.
(10:33):
And I'm like, yeah, and we also need to learn to fail and be okay with it and learn fromit.
And that's really, hard
It's so hard.
It's so hard to like move people into almost like, and this is where I borrow from my likeDFMA experience is like a testing mindset where this isn't perfect, but what we have now
(10:54):
isn't perfect, right?
And we're going to test it and we're going to make it configurable so it can, you know, itcan apply to a bunch of different projects and sectors and all this, but I need your
feedback.
This isn't a one way thing.
This is a continuous.
improvement loop.
This is how we do it.
And so that's introducing, I think, a new way of thinking.
People are open to new because I think we know the way things have been happening is notsustainable.
(11:19):
Right?
We all know the metrics about how construction hasn't improved in centuries and blah,blah, blah.
So what I'm seeing is at least my peers our leadership.
everyone knows something needs to change.
And so they're looking to the people who are like, well, I can bring this experience withme to indicate how we can move forward or we can borrow these practices from product and
(11:40):
manufacturing and even design to improve construction and even, you know, kind of, it'slike building a web of knowledge and best practices.
Yeah.
absolutely.
I don't know.
My brain just rabbit holed to the fact that I just bought a new modular couch and I was Ihad never bought a couch like that before.
I just bought your standard like three seat cushion, whatever, whatever.
(12:03):
And this whole experience of like designing my couch with these preset modules and piecesand parts and I'm how awesome is this?
So thinking of
you know, obviously on a larger scale building.
for people who maybe don't have the concept of what that means, go check out Lovesac andgo to the store and play around with it because that helps you understand sort of that
(12:26):
shifting of a mindset of building differently.
And I was literally just talking with my husband about it.
So it's kind of funny.
I don't think you can.
do it for everything, but I think there's a lot of it that we can change And there'sopportunities for, I think, people to make career shifts into construction.
(12:47):
So not just new folks coming into the construction, but there's ability to take whatyou've learned in another industry and bring it here and actually add value to help making
these shifts.
when I...
I often talk to people about, you know, Women in Construction Week and there are a lot ofthem are focused on up and coming new people to the industry and young women.
I'm like, there's also all these amazing women in other industries that have amazingability and skill and knowledge that can bring it here and add value.
(13:16):
Yes, become part of this, become part of our group.
Because I love, you know,
Even academia, like my background is not construction or architecture design based.
Mine is anthropology and psychology.
Most people are like, what?
Oh no, those are excellent things to bring to the industry.
(13:37):
really is.
I think actually the psychology aspect of it, that's, you know, people have asked mebefore, like, what does it take to be successful in this role?
And I feel like it's honestly 55 % soft skills, right?
Like, can you communicate?
Can you help bring consensus to get to a decision?
(14:00):
Or we all know consensus isn't.
possible in a lot of cases, but do people feel like they had input to get us to the pointwe want to be at?
And I think that that is, you you need like the technical and the hard skills, but youneed to be able to bring these other perspectives to the work you do.
I totally agree.
And I think it's, again, going back to earlier part of this conversation of like, there'sall these different opportunities.
(14:23):
So I think it's very viable option to shift careers into this industry, regardless of yourage.
It's also viable to enter the trades even at a different age, because I know people wholike 30s, 40s.
for whatever reason the current career they were in or economy shifts and changes,childcare needs, whatever it might be, shifted into the trades actually.
(14:47):
I am fricking here for that.
Yeah.
I also am really eager for trades to become a to be viewed and I think we're getting thereis as viable or career pathway as the traditional four year college.
Like I can speak personally.
have two daughters right and one of them already.
(15:08):
I'm like should be a fierce little carpenter like naturally like at the skill set themechanical mindset and
So what can I do to get her into these things to at least give it, like at least exploreit and know that there's this world of opportunity out there and really like engaging and
fulfilling work that doesn't always look like how some things have been laid out.
(15:31):
I I'll level, because I'm totally like open and honest.
My husband is a union member.
He makes the same amount of money as I do.
And he has opportunity to work overtime and earn more.
And his benefits are great.
And with his career, they have different shifts.
So there's different shift work.
(15:52):
So it's not just normal day hours.
He works night shift and he actually likes it.
There's also swing shift options.
So I'm like, yeah, there's there's opportunity there to exist in this industry in alldifferent ways.
And there are there are challenges that I see for for some of that, because women stillare largely the caretakers of children and family members and elderly folks.
(16:14):
And so I think that, you know, bringing equity into the industry means addressing thosethose those areas.
it definitely needs to be.
address like it needs.
I mean, we need like a systemic solution to but I hear you on that.
But I it's very it'll be interesting to see what the level of like tech disruption startsto look like in the next decade or two as like this new generation is starting to move
(16:38):
through what education looks like.
And at least where I sit in Seattle, there are a number of groups that are actively tryingto pull girls because they're really young.
just exposing them to it just so you know it's an option because I think a lot of peopledon't even know it exists out there.
It's very exciting.
mean, our, our, we're foster parents and our third foster kiddo was a young, young woman,young girl, just came out of her shell when she got into our home.
(17:04):
And, we, she fit in with our family like immediately, which is not always what happens.
And I remember there was these bookends that I really wanted.
They were like made out of metal and these cool like,
abstract thing.
And my husband and her were disappearing in the garage.
And they're like, you can't come in.
(17:25):
I'm like, okay, what are you doing?
I can't tell you.
Okay.
So for my birthday, they had made these crafted these bookends together in the garage.
And she had never done stuff like that.
And she had also had never had like a male father figure in her life.
So come to find out he had her in their
13 years old welding and she was like all on it.
(17:49):
mean he covered protective gear all this stuff and she welded them with him and helpedmake them for me.
And it was like the coolest thing because I was like we need more people man or woman tolean into teaching their kids these kinds of things from an early age so it's just
normalized that anyone can do these things.
(18:10):
And she was so freaking proud of herself.
It's like one of my favorite.
And he caught some of her welding on video for me so I could see it later.
And it's like the coolest thing.
Well, and it's a confidence builder too.
And I think there's something about like the immediacy of making things, right?
Cause I actually, even before architecture school, I had a fine arts background.
left art school to go to architecture school.
(18:32):
And there is something about the tactility of the work you do that is deeply satisfying.
And I think that any, if you already have a desire and that, you know, that kind of feedsyou a little bit, even if that sounds corny, like there's so many things you can do.
also think there's a bridge to understanding physically how things are go together intodesign.
(18:57):
And I do think there are some people who can do everything on a computer on a designsystem or drawing and their brain can make sense of that.
think other people need need something different.
I'm a neuro spicy individual, I recognize that people might describe something to me andI'm like, No, no, no, no, I have to draw it and then I have to like,
craft it and then I can understand it.
(19:18):
And I think making space for that for different folks as well,
I agree because I think that, you know, a lot of what I handle too is like givingconstructive constructability feedback back to our partners because they're excellent
designers and they're very good at what they do.
And I've been on that side where you're just looking, you're just looking at the paper,right?
(19:43):
And there is
this whole, and this is where I like go back to my manufacturing experience of that likeconstant testing, the physical prototyping is so critical.
you know, connecting them to our general supers who have built everything under the sunand have excellent feedback, but figuring out, you know, where I sit is like, you need to
(20:04):
do the, you need to do it drawing because they aren't going to understand your markupnotes.
Like we're getting, we're getting everyone in the same room talking the same language.
And I think anytime you can provide that thread of feedback, you're providing knowledge toboth ends of it, right?
So your subject, your expert in constructability understands how they need to becommunicating with their next design partner.
(20:28):
And that design partner essentially now knows how something actually gets built.
Right.
And so that is like years of experience rolled into one, one email thread even.
So this is, I find this so exciting.
Yeah, it's so interesting to me.
Pivoting just a little bit, I was thinking, you've been in the industry in a coupledifferent capacities and for a minute, what are some changes that you've seen or changes
(20:54):
you want to see for bringing some equity into it for women in construction?
So first, I've just seen more women.
There are just more women coming into the fields, into all of AEC.
I think that that has happened in some ways organically because it starts earlier.
(21:17):
There's more interest in the college degree programs.
once you become like, it's like a 50.
50 class, right, instead of like, I don't know, like 25 % women to like half women.
And so that naturally like over a few professional generations, like matriculates up,right?
I still, this is where I think that a little more work needs to happen is.
(21:39):
And I just, don't think this will only benefit women.
I think it's going to benefit everyone is like actual attention to a life work balance.
And this isn't like, let everyone work from home.
It's not that it's like, it, that's a component of it.
But I think that just more general flexibility and I see it turning that way.
(22:00):
Right.
I do think maybe one benefit of all of us having to go.
a lot of us having to go remote over COVID for a while is understanding that like, yourbutt doesn't have to be in the seat for 10 hours a day.
It's, you know, my work schedule naturally kind of, it's intense days, you know, thetypical kind of nine to five.
(22:23):
And then there's, because my children are young, you know, there's the afterschool tonighttime.
And then I pick up and set myself up for success.
for the next morning in the evening, right?
So understanding that some people work that way and that's so it's some people just, know,are the 4 a.m.
to probably, you know, 1 p.m.
(22:46):
scene too.
I think there's a lot there because I just think life is really complicated and it'sreally hard and it's a little bit more kind of breaking that kind of.
classic 10 hour a day in the office or in the job site trailer or in the plant orwhatever.
I think that there needs to be something happening there.
(23:09):
You're the second person to actually point out the flexibility.
I asked that question on the last interview and they almost exact same answer.
we have the technology to work the way we need to work to best support our lives.
I think that that conversation can get, I'm not sitting on the beach doing this stuff.
(23:31):
there's like everyone, it's, we don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.
And I still, I'm still in the office about 40 hours a week.
I actually really like it.
I like being on site.
I like being around my people, but
just a little more flexibility.
think that'll go a long way.
Also, you know, I, we see a lot of women leave the workforce at a certain age, I think, orchange to something different that's not as demanding, not like, or just has more
(24:01):
flexibility.
And I think they make that change because the flexibility is there.
I haven't looked up like much on that, but I would imagine that's probably true.
And yeah, I just, I definitely have had to relearn how to draw boundaries myself of when Ibecame a foster parent, the types of, I have to go to certain meetings and I have to be
(24:23):
present at court dates and.
It's choice I actively understood and took and also required that I just attend to thosethings.
so there are some nights where I'm answering emails at nine o'clock at night.
And I'm okay with that because it's just for an hour at nine o'clock at night.
But what I did is I put a message at the bottom of my email that said it's something tothe attune of like,
(24:46):
I recognize that this is not during normal working hours and I don't expect you tobasically answer me.
It's fine.
giving people that boundary of permission of just because I'm answering you at some funkyhour doesn't mean I'm expecting you to respond to me immediately.
And just creating that simple little message, I think might like help others on the otherside not be like, my God, they're working at nine o'clock at night.
(25:11):
I have to do that too.
I have to be with like,
I'm not, I don't want people to ever get that message from me.
And so I felt that was important to put on my email like signature.
It's so funny you said that because I actually just saw that come through on an emailsignature from one of our like amazing senior PMs.
And I was like, I'm stealing this from Michelle.
It's so good because it is, it's, and then you're not messing around with like delayedsend and all that, whatever.
(25:36):
We're all adults, right?
don't have the patience to do the delays send plans and then all that.
Like, I just don't.
But it's a permission to set boundary.
Even though I don't think you need my permission to set that boundary, I'm going to giveit to you anyway.
I think it helps.
things like that.
it's a form of like, you know, practicing what you preach to.
(25:59):
I think it's a solid thing.
It's solid, yeah.
So I think that's the biggest one I think that would benefit everyone, not just women, notjust parents, not just anything.
People have really complex lives.
And honestly, I'm just excited to see what the next few decades bring with even...
We're seeing even a swell of more, just more diverse groups entering college and comingin.
(26:22):
And we're seeing it on the trade side too.
There's more diverse groups coming in.
And so it almost feels like it's naturally gonna start to just grow.
I agree.
I think I'm really excited about the shifts that we will get to be present for over thenext, I would say, three to four decades.
(26:43):
And I do reflect back, right?
Like in my career of 25 years in the industry, I have seen a lot change.
I've also seen a lot not change.
And that can get incredibly infuriating of like, really?
We're still doing this?
but I think showing up as leaders, as mentors, offering, you know, a moment or a time orwhatever to other generations or people coming into the workforce, I think is really
(27:14):
important as service to them.
so yeah, it, thinking of that, is there any advice that you would want to give to
a young woman thinking about coming into this industry.
Yeah, I think what I would tell them is...
First, go for it, because there's no easy path anywhere, right?
You're gonna, I mean, you're gonna run into, no, like it's all a, like, you know, like Idecided not to be a fine artist and to become an architect, because I thought that that
(27:44):
meant, mean, it's all a hustle.
It's all, it's all, it's all hard work.
Like if it's hard work for, I think, great benefits, I would tell them you are picking acareer path that lets you impact.
built environment, which I think is one of the most powerful things you can do as a humanis to positively impact your built environment.
It touches your community.
It touches everything.
(28:06):
But so first go for it.
Everything's hard, but there is in particular, it's like a, you know, I'm an agedmillennial, geriatric millennial.
There's a whole
There's a whole swath of us in this leadership level ready to mentor you, waiting for youto come through the door and ready to mentor you, which I didn't have the benefit of.
(28:29):
I didn't have a female mentor at all.
And I wanted one desperately and they just didn't exist.
They just weren't there.
But we're here and we're ready, right?
And we're ready to like...
give you all the knowledge we have and all the support you need and help you navigate allthe hard parts and also advocate for you, which I think is even more important.
(28:54):
I was just gonna say, think there's a tenacity of the female leaders I've seen who arelike elder millennial Gen Xers that we've been through enough of the shit in this industry
and we're kind of at the point of like, and we're at the point of our career that theconfidence and network, we're like, no, I'm not gonna put up with that bullshit.
(29:16):
And I'm not gonna let you put up with that bullshit.
Cause I'm gonna step in and I'm gonna make sure the bullshit goes like,
I feel like there's enough of us that are like a kind of a force of nature at this pointthat we're just not gonna stand by and let it happen anymore.
so having coaching conversations and career advice and teaching you things, yes.
And also I'm gonna stand up with you if need be in a moment.
(29:40):
on your own, right?
Yeah.
And I kind of love that about the industry.
I wouldn't say every woman in the industry is there yet that are at the same level ofcareer and age as you and I, but I think there's enough of us that are.
I think there's enough and I think we've got like strong allies in a lot of men who arethe same age who are partners too.
And I think that that, I think there's a lot to leverage there.
(30:02):
There's like a whole network of support that's ready and.
I agree.
And I get so stoked when I meet just another male ally, right?
when I find another one, I'm like, you are in the circle now of trust And there's still alot to teach and for unfortunately that work of...
(30:24):
teaching other folks in different positions in the industry.
There's just a lot for them to learn to create spaces of equity and those allies can helpus do that.
We don't have to take that burden on alone.
you don't have to do it.
And sometimes it's even more powerful if it comes from others too, right?
We all know that.
I also think there's just a level of like sometimes you need to let that happen becausey'all some days I'm just fucking tired
(30:45):
Yeah, I've got a lot on my plate.
Like I don't have time to have the same conversation with you 15 times about the samefricking thing about women.
I just don't.
And maybe this person can do that with you and help you understand that better.
And then that's okay.
Like we don't need to solve it for everybody.
you don't have to delegation, right?
That's how we got here anyway.
(31:09):
Any advice you would, this is one of my favorite questions to ask everybody.
I think everybody in this series is gonna get asked this one.
Any advice you would give your younger self?
Oh my gosh, I think about this all the time.
I think if I could go back and talk to like 23 year old me, like first of all, I wouldtell myself it's gonna be okay.
(31:30):
Like you're, it's really gonna work out fine.
Second, would have like gone back and told myself that the mentors that were in my circle,particularly when I was very,
young in my career is that sometimes what you will learn most from them is how not to beas opposed to how to be.
(31:55):
Right?
Like I...
You nailed that comment right there for me too.
I think back on like some of the most impactful mentors and it was really that I watchedthem how they conducted themselves professionally and I thought or how they managed others
and I thought well the one thing I can take from this is I'm never going to do it thisway.
Like I'm never going to treat people this way.
(32:16):
I'm never going to run it this way.
I'm not going to use fear as a tactic ever.
I'm going to be individualized and that's what I would tell myself now.
Would you listen to yourself?
know, I, and that, and that even if you don't, and this took me a while to like recognize,even if you can't find your mentor, you do have advocates in your circle and don't be
(32:43):
afraid to talk to them.
Cause you're, you know, when you're young and you're early in your career, you're a littlemore self-conscious, but like, just reach out to them.
Most people love to be reached out to.
Oh, and it doesn't have to be somebody in your company.
actually think that's actually helpful to reach out to someone else.
(33:04):
Yeah, I, when I was still on the design side, I remember I reached out to a developer wehad worked with like a ton at the firm I was at.
And she was just an amazing developer in the city of Seattle.
And I had no idea what I was going to do next with my career.
And I still can't believe I just, did it.
So still pretty young, but I just called her and I was like, can I take you out to coffee?
(33:26):
I just need to talk to someone.
And she was like, of course.
And I was like,
Hahaha!
you know you're calling someone to ask them on a date, that's how old I am, right?
And you're like, but just leverage those connections because they are connections for areason.
They feel like a connection because they do, it's real, it's real on both sides.
And so, yeah, exactly.
I mean, I secretly want to just create like a freaking force of women in the industry,like that is a legacy we leave behind.
(33:55):
So sure, hit me up.
Well, we're getting close to wrapping up here.
So my final thing that I love asking people is, is there...
one, two, three women in this industry that you feel need a shout out.
And it could be somebody who's mentored you, could just be some of you doing badass work.
(34:15):
Like who's some shout outs we need to be thinking about?
I've got some, I thought about this, I've got some clear shout outs.
So when I think back to my like design for manufacturing era, it's really, there were,there are just really clear powerhouses operating on this edge of design and manufacturing
(34:36):
and construction.
So, you know, Janet Stephenson right?
One of the best communicators I've ever worked with, right?
Cassie Mass is an operations wonderkin and I learned more from her than I could haveimagined, right?
We've got Kara Marx who can bring any product to market with elegance, grace andbrilliance.
(35:00):
Jen Caldwell, we came up as baby architects together and, but we were a combined forcewith a lot of product development just to
beautiful mind at getting things done.
And then also Rochelle Hill, who's like a modular prefab, exceptional technicalindividual.
you know, coming from there.
And then as I'm moving into construction, right, the president of our Washington operationis an incredible woman, Cori-Ann Presser is fantastic.
(35:28):
And then also I work very closely and can't understate that
Shannon Testa also with Lewis runs one of our largest sectors and all of our concreteself-perform and structure self-perform.
these, those two that I'm working with daily have just done, it's just incredible, justincredible women knocking it out of the park like day after day.
(35:52):
That's awesome.
just, I feel like all of the people that get shout outs, because everybody's doing this onevery single episode.
I feel like every single person that we mention is someone you could reach out to if youwant advice.
Like, I hear names of people who we, you find them on LinkedIn, and I guarantee you theywould give you some time.
(36:15):
So.
talk to you about what they do and how it attaches to construction or supports it or justreally it's, it's, there's just so many people out there who are generous with time.
And, you know, myself included, I will respond to just about anyone.
So.
Yeah, same, unless you're just trying to sell me something and then I'm.
(36:36):
you're trying to sell me something then please know or if you want me to like be part ofyour funding round, no.
Yeah, I mean I do as part of my primary role answer those those as well, but that'sdifferent context Well anything else you wanted to add or like any any final thoughts or
anything?
I guess I would just add that like you, think what's gonna strengthen construction movingforward is bringing in people with a diversity of background skill sets and the way they
(37:03):
approach problem solving.
And I think we're seeing that happen.
And that's what makes me most excited for the future.
think it's all there for us.
So I really appreciate you coming on today.
And yeah, thank you.
(37:24):
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of The Construction Cafe.
We hope you found our conversation as inspiring as your next big project.
Remember, you can dive deeper into the resources and topics we discuss by connecting withus on LinkedIn and Instagram.
Just search for The Construction Cafe.
Don't miss out on future episodes.
Be sure to follow us on Spotify, Podbean, and Apple Podcasts to keep the conversationgoing.
(37:48):
If you're passionate about the construction industry and have a story to share, we'd loveto hear from you.
Visit our website at the constructioncafe.com and drop us a note.
Let's keep building better together.
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